Weights and Plates Podcast - #48 - Does Getting Stronger Make You a Better Runner? Client Interview with Liv Miller

Episode Date: March 7, 2023

Robert invites one of his clients, Olivia Miller, onto the show to discuss her training program for a 50k race she ran in February. Liv is a former D1 soccer player now working in the healthcare field. She turned to running after graduation as a way to keep herself physically challenged, and to stave off some of the boredom and stress of the COVID lockdowns in 2020. A natural competitor, Liv excelled in running and began training for longer and longer races, with her recent 50k being the longest.   Several months ago she sought out a coach through Rennaissance Periodization to help her improve her strength and nutrition. After a few months of dedicated strength work, in which she incorporated the basic barbell lifts -- squat, press, deadlift, and bench press -- into her program for the first time since college, she asked Robert to program her running as well. He did, gradually ramping up her mileage after the strength phase and maintaing her strength in the weightroom with an RPE based loading scheme. The approach worked, and Liv hit some PR's while feeling noticeably stronger and more resilient during the race, and with less aches and pains durign the training process as well.   You can follow Liv's running on Instagram @livimillr   Weights & Plates: https://weightsandplates.com Robert Santana on Instagram: @the_robert_santana   Trent Jones: @marmalade_cream https://www.jonesbarbellclub.com

Welcome to the Weights and Plates podcast. I'm Robert Santana. I'm your host along with Trent Jones, my co-host and a special guest today. Yeah, we have a special guest with us, Liv Miller. Yeah. Hey, guys. Liv us, Liv Miller. Yeah. Hey, guys. Liv as in Liv Tyler. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. All right.

Not Olivia Newton-John. No. More Liv Tyler, for sure. Well, good to know. I've been addressing you by your full name up to this point. Oh, that's fine. You can call me Liv. Olivia, either one.

I dig it. So, Liv is a client of mine for, what, how long? Three to six months, somewhere in that range right now? Yeah, that's on the road, right? Yeah. And she decided that she wanted to do the insane thing of running 50K. You know, it's insane to me at least, but to her, it's no problem. I mean, she's doing a 25 this weekend. It's just a quick sprint. just a quick sprint. But, you know, I was programming her strength training. And she asked me if I can program her runs. And I was kind of thrown back because I haven't done anything like that in a long time. And I'm like, well, you know, I do know how to do this. I was a swimmer, you know, similar deal. And if there's anything I've learned from strength training is any type of physical stress follows that stress recovery adaptation

cycle. So, you know, I put her through that. She had a very good race, hit some PRs, and we're going to talk endurance today. You know, we're doing a little shifting of gears, but, you know, of course, within the context of strength and vice versa. So do you have, I have to ask first, do you have one of those like 50 or like a hundred stickers on your car? Uh, not on my car. I have a big box. It's got all my running stuff in it. I've slapped all my stickers on it, but I do have in my living room. All right. Nice. So have you seen the, uh, the one that says 0.0? Yes. Have you seen the one that's 26.2 and underneath it, it says chicken nuggets eaten. Yeah, that's, that's right.2 and underneath it, it says chicken nuggets eaten?

Yeah, that's right up my alley. There we go. Yeah. It's the 0.01. If you haven't seen that one, it says at the bottom, I don't run. I need that sticker. Next year, 500, 400, 300, 200. Yeah. There we go. Yeah. Now we're talking now we're talking or what is what is the ladies sticker uh was it like 315 225 oh i don't know she's not familiar with this yet trent okay yeah so so starting strength has a sticker as well and uh yeah it's like this it's like strength standards for uh a serious lifter so know, if you can achieve these numbers

that you sort of like have entered the Valhalla of like, you know, you're a serious lifter now. So for guys, it says 500, 400, 300, 200. I think that's right, isn't it? Yeah, that's right. I'm going to pull up the store right now. Yeah, so basically 500 deadlift, 400 squat, 300 bench, 200 press.

And there's a sticker for ladies too. And I think it's, I think it's 315 deadlift. See how close I am. 225 squat, 155 bench. I think that sounds correct. Where's the sticker? Here's the barbell. Yeah. I think it's like a hundred press. Uh, yeah, you got it. Bam. There we go. Are you in the club? Okay. It sounds like to chase. Yeah, it's good. So now you got it. Now you got some strength goals, but before we start talking about strength, so give us a little bit of background on like, so how long have you been racing? And like, what types of races do you do? So you said you've recently done a 50 K you're about to do a 25K. Is that like a normal distance for you?

Or have you run different distances in the past? So majority of my life, I hated running. Like absolutely hated it. I picked the only position in soccer where you don't have to run. I was a goalkeeper. So when up until college, I played D1 soccer at James Madison University. And my coach kind of like sat me down. He's like, look, if you ever want to play, you're going to have to learn to run.

And so I started running, still hated it and kind of convinced myself that if I told myself I like running enough, I eventually I will like to run. So eventually I got my fitness chest and got better at running. And then the pandemic hit, lockdown, I needed something to do. So I just started running further and further and further. And my career at college had ended. I needed something to compete in. And I was like, well, I'm an all or nothing personality.

What's the farthest I can run? And I signed up for a 50K. All right. Nice. So when, because I'm not very familiar with what soccer practice looks like at a high level. So what kind of runs would you do as a keeper? Yeah. So we did more CrossFit style than like just straight up aerobic sprints.

But in the off season, we would train with the teams. That meant we were doing like, you know, the traditional beep test, laps around the field, timed runs. Wait, so is the beep test, is that where you like, you have to run from like the one end of the field to the other? No, it's a little bit farther past the 18 yard box. And you start on the end line and you go up by levels. And every level you press to, it gets a little bit faster and a little bit faster. So we were all given like benchmarks to hit, like goalkeepers hit this number of defenders at this number of midfielders and so on. Interesting. So and yeah, you have like a fixed time that you have to do those within?

like a fixed time that you have to do those within? Yeah. So the, they play a track and it'll beep and then give you a halfway point and then beep again when you're supposed to be back. And if you're not back, you're out. Gotcha. Gotcha. So when you were running in soccer, did you find like you enjoyed the sprinting at all? Like when you started doing that or was it the long distance like right off the bat that you were like, yeah, that enjoy that more it was the long distance i am not fast i've never been fast i've always been i'm almost six foot i've always leaned more towards strong and long distance can go forever but just not very fast gotcha yeah, we'll tell us about now what you've done since college. So, um, what does your racing career look like or, or, you know, are you fairly new to this? Um, I started last year, last year was my first race for a 50 K was super underprepared. Um,

I bonked pretty hard around mile like 18, 19 and stubborn refused to quit. I was like, I'm not DNFing. I am finishing this race. So it took like over nine hours to get that one done. And then I ran a 20 miler. I ran a 25 K. Uh, I won that one, which was encouraging. And then I signed up for the 50K I just ran. And that was the next big target to hit. Okay. All right. So you're overall fairly new to competing in distance sports. All right. But you already won one. That's pretty awesome.

It was a fun time. Well, give us an idea before we get into the kind of the nitty-gritty of like of prepping and training so give us an idea of what these distances look like so for us uh americans with our imperial system so a 50k is like it's more than 25 miles right it's 32 32 miles okay and then a 25k would be 16 16. 16? Okay, gotcha. And at the end of April, I'm running 100K, which is 64. Oh my goodness. Jeez.

Two marathons and some change. Good grief. So what does a good time for 100K look like? Oh gosh. To be honest, I don't really know. I don't pay too much attention to my times. I just kind of want to go out and do my best and beat my last time. I just want to be better than I was before. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's a good approach. I just can't imagine running for that long.

Yeah. Don't you like take naps and when they get long enough? No. I knew a guy in college that would run like 100 plus i think i i think was i think he might have been running like 100 miles plus and uh he told me that he'd have to stop and like sleep on the ground yeah i think they definitely do the pilers will go days that is crazy yeah yeah we're gonna read about all right so we're gonna read about live let's let's i gotta set a reminder in like three years she's gonna be like in the in the some articles like running across the sahara desert we'll see i mean force or do the force gump yeah so so tell us about um you know how so what did your prep look like for this most recent 50k run and um let's let's talk

a little bit about like programming and how what training looked like leading up to that yeah yeah so i when i hired rob i was doing it all on my own kind of guessing at what i should be doing i was definitely doing strength but running and uh but definitely wasn't optimal uh but i was pretty beat up and i decided i wanted okay i want to slow down i want to stop running for a minute and really focus on strength. So through November, December, we only did lifting, I didn't run maybe more than a couple miles if I was feeling it. But I really just kind of focused on getting as strong as possible. And then January, I hit up Rob, I said, Hey, you want to program a 50k. And since then, we've been doing four-week blocks where we, like, four weeks of running. I think we started off with six miles, five days a week.

And then a longer run on the weekend. And then that went to seven, which went to eight, which went to nine. And then I had my 50K. And then now we're in a strength block. So I've been lifting for the past few weeks. And, yeah, just getting back, building back up that strength. Everybody hear that just a little bit more each week. Sound familiar, Trent? And there we go. Yeah. Hey, I've seen that before.

Yeah. Not entirely complicated. So tell us more about the lifting. What were you doing before we started working together and kind of what's your life been like in that area? I mean, I was a program hopper. Like I was pulling stuff off the internet and I was like, okay, this one looks good. And I'd follow it for a little bit and not see the results I wanted. Like I was continuing to pull the same weight and not progressing, not going anywhere, but you know, still in the gym five days a week, doing whatever felt right. Now, had you heard of starting strength before working with Robert? Or before today? I actually found Rob through RP. I listened to their podcast and hit him up to do my nutrition

and my strength training. Okay, cool, cool. All right. So yeah, because I was just curious about that because I could describe the same thing of myself in college and then the first few years after college, I just kind of hopped around to like different programs I found online and it like somehow never dawned on me, you know, it never got through my thick skull

that like I could run a program in which I just like progressively added weight to the bar every time I worked out. I didn't even run across that concept until I did strong lifts, which used to be all the rage online years ago. And that led me ultimately to starting strength because they basically ripped everything out, you know, all of their content, they basically ripped off of starting strength. I think it's fair to say you're starting strength naive they basically ripped everything out, you know, all of their content, they basically ripped off of starting strength. But I think it's fair to say you're starting strength naive, right?

Liv. Yeah. Yeah. She doesn't know anything about that. I've never called it that, or, you know, never brought it up. All right.

Yeah. She knows the videos cause they're attached to her lifts. You know, those videos that are attached to instructional videos. That's from, that's from the starting strength YouTube page. Okay. Okay.

Have you, so you've watched those, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's an the Starting Strength YouTube page. So you've watched those, right? Yeah. Yeah. He's an interesting character, isn't he? He has good form. Yeah. Oh, yeah. The coach in that video wrote a book called Starting Strength, and it spawned into a YouTube channel. There's a website. They have a store that I just linked you to for that sticker. And they have a podcast, they have a bunch of content now, but it all started with a book on how to perform the barbell lifts safely and correctly. And that book led to all these products and services. And one of those is coaching credential long before other people were credentialing coaches. I mean, obviously,

the big academic credentials have been around for decades, but in terms of like these smaller ones, he started credentialing coaches in about 2009, I believe, and I became one in 2013. And this is why I asked for videos, by the way, because that book was the first book that I'd read that kind of objectively looked at these exercises in a way that, you know, you're kind of conforming to the laws of physics and to the person's body dimensions. You kind of individualize how people move so that they could basically lift heavy weights and not get hurt, you know, with these movements. So, you know, the book itself is about 90% on technique, and then there's a little bit of programming, a little bit of nutrition, and there's like a few other ancillary exercises. But it's 90%, if I had to guess, on technique, on the squat, the press, the deadlift, the bench press, and the power clean.

And this is why I asked for videos because that credential was the first that actually taught me how to do something and not a bunch of scientific theory. You know, a lot of coaches are programmers. You know, you pay and you get a program. I watch how you move. I want you to move a certain way so that we can get you stronger. You know, you can't get somebody stronger at a movement that's inefficient and unsafe. You'd get somebody hurt that way, right? Yeah.

So this is where I'm coming from with, hey, you know, give me some videos. Where are your videos? Where are your videos? You know? Yeah. So this is where I'm coming from with, hey, give me some videos. Where are your videos? Where are your videos? And from the programming standpoint, it's just kind of how I programmed her running. The starting strength novice linear progression, which I did not run her through, Trent. Okay, yeah. Basically, you squat three times a week.

You add weight to the bar every time, provided you completed all of your reps, all of your sets with correct technique. And if you've never lifted before, or if you've been program hopping and not really getting stronger, you know, you're by all, for all intensive purposes, you're more of a novice than you are advanced, you know. So novice could add weight and get strong very quickly, can gain muscle very quickly. So you can add 15 pounds a week to your squat, you know, and that's kind of what the whole premise of the programming side of it is and when most people hear starting strength they think of that program you know that novice program that's in the book but it's you know it's bigger than that because most of the book is actually on technique but the program is what kind of gained all the fame for you know like oh I've done starting strength and it's

like yeah you a lot of people have done it with shit form, myself included. So just kind of to summarize that for you, the reason that guys like Trent and I gravitated towards it is because we programmed how to do stupid things. In my case, I got hurt doing stupid things. And it allowed me to move in a way where I felt safe with a bunch of weight in my hands or on my back, you know, depending on what I was doing. I could squat, you know, I'm getting close to a triple body weight squat and, you know, it's anxiety provoking, but I'm not particularly scared that I'm going to get hurt because I don't know what I'm doing. Whereas, you know, 15 years ago, you know, I'd be squatting maybe a hundred pounds over body weight, which, you know, isn't very much for a young man.

And I wouldn't want to go up because I felt like I had no control of my body once it got past a certain point. I'm sure you felt that too, messing around in the weight room. There's like a certain point where you're like, I don't know what to do with this, you know, and you either back away or some people are just, you know, kind of like those Malinois, you know, no self-preservation, just go anyway, you know. In my case, I would step away from it. I'd be like, I have no idea what I'm doing with 275, so I'm not going to go over that. And what that content allowed me to do was progress past that, stay healthy, not get hurt, and then teach other people how to do it. So that's why Trent keeps bringing that up. Both of us kind of came up through that in terms of our content and our own progression and the way most of the progress I'd say we both made has been the result of lifting in that way the techniques from that book. The beauty of it is it doesn't matter if you're necessarily training for absolute raw strength.

I mean, this is probably the safest way for most people to move. When you look at stuff on the RP channel, he's talking about bodybuilding and stuff like that. That's a little bit more specialized, and there's credence there for sure. Like when he talks about adjust the movement to make it less efficient so you can target certain muscles. It's more of a bodybuilding type thing. less efficient so you can target certain muscles. It's more of a bodybuilding type thing. But when you're dealing with people that don't have a lot of experience pushing themselves

in the weight room, this is probably the best way to generally get them moving and doing these lifts without complicating the process and adding additional variables that don't need to be there. Do you think I summarized that well, Trent? Yeah, oh, absolutely, yeah. We have a saying that the novice linear progression, which is the beginning program that we put people on where they're squatting, pressing, benching, deadlifting. It's simple, hard, and effective.

There you go. It's about as distilled as you can possibly make a program. It makes the whole body strong. And it's easy to iterate. It's easy to, to run through because it's so simple. You, you focus on mastering, you know, just four things, you know, maybe a power clean later on if you're, if you're an athlete. So that would be five things. Um, and then you focus on mastering those and adding weight to the bar on those lifts before you start branching out to other stuff. Um, but I'm interested in knowing

kind of what your strength training looked like in November, December. So when you did that strength run leading up to your prep for the 50 K yeah. What kind of, what kind of exercise, uh, selection were you doing and then, uh, sets and reps and, and what generally, what does your program look like then? Yeah. So we broke it down. We had, it would go leg day, upper body day, rest day, and then another leg day, upper body day, and then kind of full body. I mean, I was squatting, deadlifting, bench pressing, overhead pressing,

lateral raise, reverse lunges, kind of, you know, the basic lifts that everyone should master. And every week I had my RPE would go up. back, reverse lunges, kind of, you know, the basic lifts that everyone should master. And every week I had my RPE would go up. So six, seven, eight, nine, and it would be sets of 10, four sets of 10, three sets of 10. And it was just go hard. Yeah, absolutely. So did, so were you looking to, when you would, let's say squat, for instance, were you looking to try to add weight every workout or were you going for like an RPE number each workout? I went off RPE.

I was a little nervous to squat. It'd been a minute since I'd squat. And I, last time I had squatted, I think I like, it was hurting my knees. I've definitely didn't have good form. And when Rob threw that in there, I was like, Oh, I don't know about this. So I started, I think like 95 pounds, which is nothing, and watched the videos and sent videos in and just kind of focused on my form until I felt really solid, felt more confident in myself that I could do it. And then I started putting the weight on. Excellent. Yeah. Well, I, I, we have a friend, a coaching friend who says squats are a peril simulator. So, uh, cause the thing about them is when you're squatting

something, especially something that's heavier than you've ever squatted before, you're not entirely sure if you can do it until you're at the bottom, which is kind of the worst place to find out. Yup. Yeah. Cause it always feels heavier going down. Yes. Yeah. And so, you know, it takes some mental fortitude for sure. I'd like to chime in here. Yeah. Because last episode, we were supposed to talk about RP, and it probably would have made sense there actually now that we're on this episode, because I know Trent's probably sitting there wondering why the hell did you have her doing RP and I have a reason for this. So there are different types of people that hire you on the internet and you know when somebody comes to me from the Starting Strength website I know what I'm getting. They want to lift heavier

and heavier and heavier weights and they expect me to tell them, you know, what load to hit, when to add, when not to add. And I'm going to get a ton of videos. You know, that's typically the expectation. RP caters to a broader audience and I get a lot of their clients that they send to me. They've been very good to me over the years. And in my early years with them, this was pre-pandemic, we didn't get a lot of training clients, or at least I didn't. There was only two dieticians that even trained people at the time. So of the ones that I would get, I'd get a very polarized response. So either I would get somebody that was like, well, this is less than what I'm used to, but I'll try it, and then it works.

I was like, well, I can get away with doing less. Or this isn't enough. This is boring because you're doing the same things all the time. And I don't like adding weight. It stresses me out. But typically, the it's boring, it's not enough crowd was probably the biggest. And why is that? Well, RP tends to get more of a – I'd say probably like they get a lot of people that go to CrossFit,

CrossFit members. I think they get a lot of CrossFit athletes, but they probably go to certain people. Like I'm not the person you want to hire if you're a CrossFit athlete. You know, it's not what I do. But I get a lot of CrossFit members, people that go to CrossFit, do the WODs, and for all intensive purposes are exercising. And what I mean by that, Liv, is we define exercise as you're going in the gym, you're breaking a sweat, you're feeling good, you're going home. There's no objective to improve at anything. It's just the objective is to get moving, right? And feel good afterwards. Whereas training, the objective is to improve at something, whether you're running in a shorter

timeframe, whether you're adding weight to the bar, the goal is improvement. That's what makes training, training. So, you know, I dealt with this phenomenon for the first couple of years. And then, you know, I've looked at their training, you know, I knew kind of had an idea of how they train people, because I've watched the content, you know, obviously, I work for them. So I'm pretty, pretty well versed on what's going on there. But then I started looking at the templates more specifically. And I'm like, well, you know, this is I think this is what a lot of these people expect. They want a little bit more variety, more of a traditional gym workout. So, you know, how do I meet my clients halfway and provide

something that, you know, they want, they enjoy, but then also give the value that I have in, hey, you're going to squat, you're going to use a barbell, you're going to squat, you're going to learn how to squat correctly. And you're going to get what you need out of this, because the vast majority of the members, or not members, that's my gym, wrong term. The vast majority of the clients that I've gotten from RP are, you know, your typical person you'd see at a commercial gym that's been going to the gym for many years or going to CrossFit for many years. You know, they've been going somewhere to work out for many years and they like to feel like, you know, they've been going somewhere to work out for many years. And they

like to feel like, you know, they've really pushed themselves. But then they're severely undertrained because that training aspect often requires a coach to give you that oomph, you know, like, hey, no, you can do more than that. That wasn't heavy. That looks like a warm-up right there, you know. And that's where I kind of stepped in. So fast forward, this is where I found a use for RP, and we're going to do an episode on this, and it's going to be the next one because this is very important. It addresses a couple issues. So when you're training somebody for strength, the assumption is that technique is good and that you're going to add weight in a predictable manner. So if it's a novice, you're adding weight three times a week to your squat. You're adding weight every other workout, sometimes twice a week, sometimes once a week to your bench press or your press. You're adding weight two to three times a week on your deadlift and eventually once a week.

But all that operates on an assumption. I talk about assumptions a lot on this show, especially pertaining to research. Well, there's assumptions to exercise programming too too, or a training program, as we're talking about. Training program assumes that you are performing the movements as intended using the equipment as intended, right? And that doesn't always happen. At my gym, it does because I'm there, right? So I'm physically there. So on the internet, all that changes. Some of these assumptions can get violated very easily. You buy an auto template from RP or from any coaching company. It's providing you a program. And that program, in RP's case, is pretty good. Their programs are pretty good if used as intended. So there's a lot of wiggle room there.

And I just did an episode with them earlier this week about this, you know, a coach is not going to give you something all that much different than you can buy off the website, you know, like, if I give somebody a program, it's going to be generally similar to an auto template, mine a little bit different, because I'm a big barbell guy, you know, so you're not going to get a bunch of hack squats and leg presses in there without any barbell work, you know? So I'd say that I'm probably the caveat, like generally a program for me to an RP client is going to look generally like the programs they sell, but you're going to have barbell lift in there, you know, for every single workout day, um, because I'm barbell coach. That's my pride and joy. So I think about this and after,

you know, and using the technology that I'm using, she's on true coach. She's familiar with true coach trent do you still use you don't use it anymore right you're not i don't use it anymore but i i used i used it for three years yeah yeah so both him and i started on it around the same time it used to be called fitbot back then um and uh one of the i ran into a couple problems the biggest one was prescribing programs on this software. You have to give sets and reps and you can give load, right? And I found when I was giving load, especially to a more, what's the best word for this? Rip would call it a personal training client. I would say general fitness. General fitness. So a general fitness client, right? That hasn't really looked at anything

on strength necessarily, just, you know, wants to lose weight, wants to look good, wants to feel good. When I start prescribing load, when you're on the internet, you can't cue the person in real time. You can't, you know, put your hands on the person and give tactile cues. That's what they're called. So like, if I say, hey, tighten up your back, and I touch your upper back, right, that's going to trigger you to tighten up, bunch up, things like that, right? When I teach the squat, it's just like in the video, I put my hand on the person's low back, and then they push up on my hand that teaches them to engage their hips.

All that is gone over the internet. All I have is videos after the fact, or at best, if I wanted to go the extra mile and do zoom, I don't offer that service. But even if I did that, all they get is a verbal cue that you hope isn't delayed, right? So really what you have is you have a program and then you have a video after the fact. And through trial and error, I just realized I'm like, you can't predict what somebody over the internet is going to do in terms of how they move. You can't predict how somebody is going to move from workout to workout. predict how somebody's going to move from workout to workout. And a true novice is going to vary a lot more than somebody who's very athletic, tends to pick this stuff up well, or somebody who's already been coached or just does it well for whatever reason. Most novices are uncoordinated. These movements are foreign, and there's more variability from rep to rep, from workout to

workout. And through all that, I just kind of realized, I'm like, there is some utility for RPE if you're coaching unskilled lifters, novice lifters over the internet. And so I started people out with that, especially on squats and deadlifts. And I do it for the isolation exercises as a general rule, because most people don't have fractional plates to add small amounts to a like a lateral raise you know or some sort of isolation exercise right so i think rp is good for that too when you can't go from 15 to 20 on a side raise you know side shoulder raise then you know follow the rp because you're not going to make the jump and you know now i've been recommending people buy fractional plates so So, you know, if more people buy them, then I take a different approach to that. But the main thing is I'm trying to control for the variability in movement. And the best way

to do that, in my opinion, if you're working with people over the internet, it's going to take you, you know, what should take a day might take a couple weeks, might take a month sometimes, right? I think RP is good. So long story short, it could be a useful tool. And this is something we're going to dive deep into in our next episode, since I owe it to you from the last one, since I kind of went on a different tangent that day. Yeah, well, yeah, no, we're definitely going to dive into that more because I want to have that conversation. But yeah, so Liv, I'm interested to know, sort of like before you really did some sort of organized strength'm interested to know, before you really did some organized strength training, how did you feel day-to-day when you were running and you were prepping for races?

Did you find yourself running into overuse injuries or repetitive stress injuries or just feel beat up? And then how has that changed after strength training? Yes, to all of those. changed after strength training? Yes, to all of those. During lockdown, when we had no gyms, and I was just running every day as long as I could. I mean, I lost any muscle mass I had. So I was pretty skinny. I didn't have a whole lot of strength. And I by the end of the week, I was beat up. I was so tired. It kind of made me hate running because I mean, I wanted to go do it, but it was just a chore at that point. And then once I started, gyms opened back up, I started lifting again,

then, you know, I can push a little bit further. I mean, I feel stronger on my feet. I can go that extra five miles on the end of the run, which makes me a better runner. And it helps me push to longer goals, longer distances. So I can't sign up for 50k's and 100k's and chase those insane races yeah absolutely so did you notice like you had any like uh joint pains or anything that would crop up as your mileage yeah my my hip uh my right side is not my good side my right hip cramp up my right knee would would swell. I was a mess by the end of the week and would have a rest day, kind of ice myself down and then just keep going and doing it again and again and again. Yeah. Yeah. That seems to be pretty common with people that do endurance training

that also don't have any strength component., is those sort of like the joint soft tissue injuries, you know, start to creep up the inflammation just gets super high. So did that change after you squatted and deadlifted? Did you notice that like squatting or deadlifting or something else would like helped your hip? Yes, definitely. I mean, I also saw in this last race, my first 50 K I ran, I was, i was you know program hopping didn't have a whole lot of strength and hiking up out of the valleys of those mountains was a chore like mile 20 when you have a thousand foot climb ahead of you it was nearly impossible but this past race i mean i have been squatting deadlifting i've got my muscle I've been doing it for consistently for about three months at this

point before I run my race, I'm zipping up those hills mile 20. When I bonked last time, I felt fantastic this race. Yeah. Fantastic. That's what I, that's what I was going to ask next is if you felt more power in the hills, but that's, yeah, I've noticed that. I mean, granted, I'm not a runner, but, uh, I've noticed that hiking around. My wife and I love to hike. And we've noticed since we have been squatting and deadlifting that when you're tired and you're several miles into a hike or several hours into a hike and the fatigue has set in, having that extra reserve of strength, it's still there when you need to push up a hill. So I'm interested now also to know, how long was your strength run that you did? So you weren't really running at all. I mean, a little tiny bit, but when you were strength training, so you did two months of strength training and then you transitioned to running? Yeah. So end of September, beginning of November, me and Rob linked up and he

started sending me my programs. And through November, through December, I just worked on getting as strong as possible. I wasn't really focused on my running. I knew, I mean, once you hit a certain mileage, you're always going to be able to get back to that mileage. Like your body muscle memory, you'll get back in it. So I knew I could build my stamina back up, but I really wanted to slow down and focus on building a solid foundation. Yeah. Well, that's, that's really smart. And so did, did you have any like hesitancy though about backing off the running? Yeah, I was a little nervous. I mean, no runner wants to stop running. So yeah, that, well, that, that's been my experience working with, with some runners

in the past is like, yeah, it's hard to kind of give up on the thing that, that you want to do, but, um, no, that's, that's great. And so when you transitioned then, well, let me ask you this. So while you were doing that strength run, did you put on body weight? I did. I did. Um, so I went from about like 155, I think I was 165, uh, a couple of weeks before this last race. I think I'm getting back into running. I've dropped back down to about 160. Yeah. But definitely put on muscle.

Fantastic. Yeah. And so that's what I think is always interesting, right? So there's a saying that I've heard like a smaller engine or a bigger engine doesn't slow down the car, right? My friends call me Diesel. I have a diesel to the bottom of my cowboy hat. Fantastic.

Yeah. So did that surprise you at all that you were able to put on body weight and also be a better runner coming out the back end? I mean, if you look at the typical runner, they're both in that, like you think of the marathon runners, uh, and you don't really see too many people that are six foot and strong, but I mean, I think people should lift. I think if you're going to run endurance races or even road races, marathon runners, I think can benefit from lifting. Absolutely. You get stronger muscles stronger

connective tissues denser bones i mean it's a repetitive pounding that you're taking you know yeah that pavement is cruel it'll get you so when you signed up for rp what made you hire a strength coach uh i like what jumped out at yeah. That's what I want to know. Picked you specifically because you were a registered dietitian, a science nerd in the healthcare field. And I liked knowing that you had a very solid foundation in strength training and nutrition because I knew I needed both to be able to be the best runner I could be. That's really cool.

You know, that's, that's, that's kind of how I try to brand myself. So I'm glad that stuck jumped out at you. You know, we never know. People just show up and I'm like, did I get picked? Or did I just, did somebody just say, Oh, pick for me? You know, because they have that option too. You know, it's, they could, uh, Trenta, when you sign up, it gives you the option, let them pick or they can pick their coach. So I

never know. So it's kind of cool. But I've heard a few more recent ones, write it in their questionnaire that I picked you because you said you can get people to a chin up. And I'm like, cool. I guess people value that, you know, the chin up King, the chin up King. There you go. That's what I should call myself that's catchy i'll be like some other guys on the internet who we won't name that uh name themselves after an exercise or muscle group to sell their products i think we all know who i'm talking about you gotta get you gotta do chin-ups every motherfucking day yeah yeah we can curse here by by the way. There's an explicit lyric icon on Apple Podcasts. Yeah, I just put the E on there right there for us.

and it's always fun when somebody picks up on that and says, yeah, that's why I hired you. I'm like, well, good. That's why I want you to hire me. But yeah, I try to ease people in when they come to me through RP because I know they don't have the background and strength that I did when I was first getting into this. And it's a mixed bag, you know, but, you know, once you're consistent and once we've gotten to know each other, at some point, I'm going to make you work hard. And I'm going to be like, hey, let's try this thing where we add weight, you know, and I prescribe a weight to you and you post a video every time. And, you know, we scare the shit out of you with, you know, a few hundred pounds on your back. What do you think? I'm here for it. I was about to say, she's going to crush it. Oh, she's going to do fine. She's going to do great.

The other thing I wanted to mention about RPE, Trent, is I would use it 100% of the time if I had a runner that's going into a race, which is what I did for her. I just locked her in an RPE 7 because there's all this endurance fatigue building up. There's no way you're going to predict load effectively. You're just not. And percentages are also going to be bullshit because 60% could feel heavy when you're putting in, you know, 30 miles a day, you know, or a week. I mean, yeah. I mean, I'm super effective because you're right. I mean, and I don't know if my body's going to feel the next day after a long run, which is usually when I had my weightlifting session. I also work in healthcare, so I'm on my feet all day. I'm running

around all day chasing patients. So I can't eat by the end of the day. And an RPE of seven feels like an RPA of 10. So then you got to dial it down. So I think that the problem with RPE that ends up pissing off a lot of strength coaches that are purists, Rip included, myself too, is when you get someone who's a serious strength trainee and they're given an RPE because it sounds fancy, it sounds complicated, and they end up just getting themselves tired and not going anywhere. This was me 10 years ago. I hired somebody for the specific purpose of getting as strong as I possibly can. And this RPE stuff popped up. And I was just beating myself up with squats I couldn't deadlift, you know? And because I will go in there. If it says nine, I'm going to go there

until I'm freaking tired and I'm putting hundreds of pounds on my back, you know? So there's from when you have somebody who is a committed trainee and will do the work, things are fairly predictable. You know, the whole theory behind RPE is that conditions vary. And I think for a lot of personal training clients, a lot of general fitness clients, and recreational trainees, I think that's probably true because they're not committed lifters. But when you have a committed lifter or an athlete, you know, somebody who's going to do the work and is going to manage as many life variables as they can to make sure that they can continue doing the work, somebody in that category, you can pretty much predict where things are going. And when things don't go well, you use that data to make modifications. You know, you don't have to use this perceived exertion stuff. And I'm getting ahead of myself. That's

next episode. I'm going to stop myself again. or for a specific period of time. But I can say that when I'm watching somebody or I'm looking at their videos online, follow the program that I've written out. I am looking for the same signs that you would if you were trying to assign an RPE. So if I see the squat is moving well, the reps are nice and snappy, and then they start to get a little grindy, and I know the RPE is climbing up,

and then I start to get a little grindy and I know the RPE is climbing up and then I see, you know, a workout where the reps start getting noticeably grindier than they were in the previous few workouts. Well, I know we're getting to a point where the RPE is climbing up there and, you know, in general, I'd like to keep people where the work is hard. It is objectively and subjectively hard. We're adding weight to the bar, but we're not hitting the wall. I don't want to be at RPE 10. It happens sometimes, but I don't really want that because that's where bad things happen. That's where injury risk goes up when your eyeballs are popping out of their sockets. And the fatigue cost of doing a lift that's a true RPE 10 is very, very high. And it just kind of wrecks you for the rest of the week, you know,

or longer sometimes. So yeah, it's kind of built into what, you know, what I do as a more traditional starting strength coach. When I'm assigning loads, I'm making changes ahead of time before somebody runs into an absolute brick wall. I don't like to let people run into brick walls because it's really hard to dig yourself out of a hole once you've dug it. That's precisely how I approach it. Yeah. Most of the people listening to this are probably from the Starting Strength website, have read the books, etc. And I want to make it clear. etc. And I want to make it clear, if somebody hires me because they've seen me on the starting strength boards, or they listen to this podcast, or they've seen me on the podcast with Rip,

you're not getting an RPE from me because I already know you're going to work hard, you know? So I do not want that message to come across, you know? If somebody hires me to get as strong as possible, I'm prescribing load, whether they're a novice, intermediate, or advanced. If the goal is to lift the most weight, you're getting loads prescribed, you know, and if I have 1RM data that we've gathered together, I might use percentages, which are still objective, but I don't think I've used an RPE outside of a, you know, accessory type exercise, you know, an isolation thing, you know, if I have a more intermediate lifter that, you know, I want to do some curls and stuff, you know, I might exercise, you know, an isolation thing, you know, if I have a more intermediate lifter that, you know, I want to do some curls and stuff, you know, I might use it for

that, but I've never used it on a squat press, bench press, or deadlift on somebody who tells me I want the most weight on the board possible, you know, but for fitness, general fitness client, weight loss client that isn't really committed to strength, you know, I'll do that, you know, because at least it gets them doing the lifts. I think everybody should do these lifts. They're very functional, you know? Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, I want to, I want to ask about that. So when you're, when you were, um, during the race prep and you were running, I think you said your general mileage was like starting at six miles per day. Is that right? Five days a week, five days a week, and then one longer run on the weekend. Okay. With the longer run on the weekend.

Um, yeah. So I'm just curious. So as you were working, as you were doing your, your lifting during that time period, what did that look like? I know you said you were kind of working in an RPE seven range, um, while you were running. So you, so the, the loads would go up and down to kind of match your fatigue level, but like what kind of, were you still squatting and deadlifting or did you change exercises? No, still squatting, still lifting or did you change exercises no still squatting still dead lifting pressing benching still have still kept everything the same my weights did shift down a little bit but i think as the mileage crept up i kind of saw the weights getting harder and harder and harder each week but i still tried to push myself as hard as

i could i mean i still chased the same weights i did not want to take weight off the bar. Yeah, sure. See, she's proven herself. She's getting better. Yeah, I'm telling you. Yeah. If you ever get the desire to push your strength levels, you're going to do great. She's going to do fantastic. Yeah. She ran 50K, Trent. Girl knows how to work. Yeah, that is way harder. Look, a 50. So that's the secret is like power lifters. We're lazy. We might be the laziest like athletes. Can you really call a power lifter an athlete? I'm going to offend a bunch of people right now. Come on. Like we sit around for like an hour to do like nine attempts, three squats, three benches. And then we're eating a bunch of food while we're doing it.

You got to eat a bunch of food. You got to have like your gummy bears you know to eat in between attempts and then you know you gotta have like all your pre-workout and like i definitely if you've ever done like a strength meet of any kind you've definitely at one point during the prep for that meet seen a set of stairs in an elevator and thought to yourself like well i don't know if I'm going to get that squat if I take those stairs. I'm taking the elevator. He's exaggerating. Laziest athletes on the planet. That's funny you say that, though, because I think the strength training is the hardest part.

I love running. I just push those up, check out, and then I'm on the road. the hardest part for me is the strength training, which is why I wanted to coach. Yeah. And notice too, what she said I did there, every week the RP goes up. And I encourage people to take that as well. If you can't add weight, you should add weight, you know? So I still try to work it in there without putting a heavier weight there necessarily. But now, you know, now that you've kind of shown us that you'll show up and do the work, now you get the numbers that you have to pursue and you have to stay on your videos, you know. But it's interesting that you say that because Rip always makes this joke and he ends up pissing off endurance athletes with

this. But he always says, yeah, running is mindless. It's just not technical, you know. And there's a nugget of truth there because think about how much mental energy a squat takes in terms of trying to think about how the hell you're going to squat it and how that changes as the weight gets heavier. So even if I put a bar in your back with no weight and say, okay, I want you to, you know, bend over, sit back at your knees out, all these things, you start thinking about specific movements that you have to do to get in that position. Then I add 50 pounds and it starts feeling different at that point, but you can still do it. Then let's say we haven't done this yet, but let's say at a hundred pounds, now you're doing like an all out set of three or five reps,

right? Now you're like, I don't know if I should go down with this. I don't know if I'm going to come back up. Like Trent said, you don't know until you've reached the bottom because it feels heavier going down. So contrast that with, well, I'm just going to run, throw on my headphones, not think about it, just keep going, you know? You have to think about your pace and certain things like that, but you're not thinking about the actual physical movement of running very much, are you? No, not road running. Trail running is a little different. You have to think about your pace and certain things like that. But you're not thinking about the actual physical movement of running very much, are you? No, not road running. Trail running is a little different.

You got to watch out for rocks and all that stuff. So you have to be more dialed in for those. But if I'm running on flat pavement, I listen to podcasts. I listen to music, books. I just kind of check out and chug along. You can't do that with lifting. No, you have to think. Like, when I lift, I'm like, Oh, I want to lift.

I'm like, all right, your core. All right. Make sure your toes are pointed the right way. Okay. This weight's kind of heavy. Nope. Yeah. That's, um, yeah, it's, it's funny how that I, and I've found like people are wired different ways. You know, there's some people that are wired to do reps, um, that are wired to sort of like, uh, to endure. And there's people like me, who is like, I, if I could only do singles, like, and I never had to do any more reps than that, that's what I would do. I'd go in there and I'd lift one time, one heavy, heavy, heavy single. And I, that'd be cool with me. Now, unfortunately you can't do that and make progress long-term, but if I could, I would do it. We all want to so bad. Yeah. Um,

but yeah, so that, that's funny. Well, so how did you feel like when you were, um, you know, when you're getting towards like closer and closer to the race, did you find like your fatigue levels from doing the lifting? I mean, obviously the weight is going down. So in a sense, the lifting is getting easier, but your mileage is going up too. So I'm just curious, how did you manage your fatigue day to day? Did you notice you had to increase your calories or try to find other ways to get recovery in, like more sleep? Or did it seem to work out? I really take care of my sleep. I try to make sure I get at least eight hours a night, more if I can get more.

And I knew my nutrition needed to be dialed in, more carbs, follow whatever Rob said. That's what I was doing. I had all my faith in him. But it was managing to get closer to the race. It's managing, making sure no hiccups are going to come that week before, wearing, wearing great shoes. So I don't get any weird calf pains and I make sure I get on my sleep and I've got my electrolytes in and it's just management mode that that week before a race. Yeah, for sure. So did you find like your carb level mainly was going up as you got closer to the race? Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Right. That's I makes sense. Yeah. Right. That's, I love it. Maybe I should try this running thing. It sounds pretty nice. If I could just step away from training, which I can't do, I would totally try it. Right. So I think that, I think that's a really good testament. So we talk about all the time in the, in the world of starting strength, um strength that, you know, making your body stronger does a couple things for you.

We've already talked about it makes you more resilient. It builds your connective tissue. It builds your bone density. But we also talk about how getting stronger, it increases your ability to either push mileage because you've got more in the tank. You know, every step that you take requires less effort when your squat goes up, right? Because your legs are stronger, so they don't have to work as hard to go the same distance.

You can go longer or you can go faster. But I think what you're showing here is strength training can also be really versatile. You know, in our little world, I think a lot of people get hung up on numbers and like, like they start training with the novice linear progression because they want to build a foundation of strength. And so they add weight to the bar, they add weight to the bar, and they achieve certain numbers. And a lot of people get interested in this and they're like, wow, you know, I'm squatting 315. I really want to squat 405. And I think that's totally cool.

But I think sometimes we can also get a little bit, you know, of tunnel vision here and forget that like there is a world of fitness outside of strength. And you're a living testament of that, right? You've used strength training to supplement your running and not the other way around. You're not a lifter that runs a little bit on the side. You're a serious runner and you've used strength training to, um, to actually support that and supplement that, which I think is really cool. We, you know, we don't have, um, enough examples like yourself out there in the world. And I know interacting with, with some other runners, there's a lot of runners who sort of look down at strength training because they're like, well, you know, those guys are all just, they see the fat power lifters who do nine reps and call it a workout, right?

I want to get big. I can't run at that higher weight. Like it's just going to slow me down. But if they'd stop and try it, I think they'd find you, you get, you're a better runner when you run. I saw a direct correlation. The stronger I got, the faster I got and more miles I could do. Yeah. Yeah.

No, we've run into this with all sorts of endurance athletes, cyclists too. Swimmers tend to be less resistant because when you're swimming, you're pushing against a resistance with your upper body. We had a lift in swimming at a bench. He didn't make a squat, but my buddy Eric, his coach made him squat. Some of them make you squat, some of them don't. So it just, for whatever reason in that particular endurance sport, the lifting is encouraged during certain times of the year, but like cyclists are very resistant. Runners are very resistant. We had a guy, another coach, I don't even know if he's a coach anymore, Steve Hill. Remember Steve Hill? Yes. I think I only met him, I met him once years ago, but yeah. Oh, he's great. I mean, you either love him or you hate him, but I happen to be one of the people

that loves him. And Christy and him are very good good friends she met him at her first seminar um and they kicked it off but um he uh was a competitive cyclist and he was squatting and deadlifting triple body weight while he was riding at a body weight of 185 so it's like a 550 550 pound squat deadlift and and racing yeah yeah that's crazy but i love the example. There's a guy out there that a runner friend of mine introduced me to Ryan Arnold. Oh yeah. I remember him. He's a, so if y'all haven't heard of him, you got to go look him up. So you can go look up his Instagram. He's a former competitive marathon runner. And I think he has some American records still that he said he is not a world record, but it's, it is an American record. So, oh, I'm sorry. I said, Ryan Arnold. I think he has some American records still that he set. It's not a world record, but it is an American record. Oh, I'm sorry. I said Ryan Arnold. I think he's Ryan Hall. Yes. Yeah, my bad. So it's Ryan Hall is who it is. Yeah, he ran a two-hour, four-minute, 58-second marathon, which I believe

is the fastest. That's the American record. But anyway, so he retired, I think due to injuries. And since then he's gotten just absolutely yoked. He is super jacked. He looks like a really ripped CrossFitter now. And it's kind of funny because he'll do a lot of side-by-sides of like when he used to, when he was at his peak as a competitive runner and he was just skin and bones. And now he's like super jacked and, when he was at his peak as a competitive runner and he was just skin and bones. And now he's like super jacked and he's still running, um, at a pretty high level, but he's also doing, you know, he's lifting, he's deadlifting, he's squatting, he's, you know, he's doing Metcons. And, uh, so it was pretty cool to see it. It seems like, um, from the outside

looking in, it seems like the running world is starting to be more acceptive of cross-training. I see it. I follow Sally May. She's an ultra runner and she's big on strength training. And she promotes that a lot on her Instagram. And then Nick Bear is all about that hybrid athlete life. He is doing a body show, bodybuilding show right now. But he ran Austin Marathon and was big on strength training before that.

And he credits a lot of his success in that marathon to lifting. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. You know, I would imagine the higher the distance that you go, the more you have to really take care of your connective tissue and avoid repetitive stress. take care of, um, of your connective tissue and, and avoid repetitive stress. Well, so, um, before we wrap up here, Liv, tell us about, so you've got a 25 K that you're going to run. Uh, it sounds like just kind of for fun. Yeah. For fun. Just on the side. All right. Just on the side. Yeah. That's, you know, I think I'll do that, um, this weekend. I'll just go run a 10 K, you know, you know, and proceed to pull my hammy no well tell us about what um what are your kind of competitive aspirations going forward from here i my ultimate goal i want to

run 100 miler i want to get that one day i want to succeed at this 100k that i'm signed up for and i think after that i'm going to shoot for a 50 miler. And then after that, maybe I'll just go all the way to 100. Man, that's insane. That's insane. So what, like, what do you do after that? Like, so does a hundred mile, is that the, like the longest official race? I think there's ones longer than that. The like race around, you know, the Cape Horn or something. Yeah. Fantastic. Well, that, well, that's, uh, that sounds fun. I'm glad that, um,

I'm glad that you're out there doing that and showing us how we can do strength training and running at the same time. And really like, I think what's cool about your program too, is that how simple it was, right? Like, uh, you know, I think, I think that's, um, that's great that you were able to basically just keep the big movements in your program while you were really ramping up your mileage and, um, and you, you didn't have to overcomplicate things, right? So keeping it simple, I imagine, it helps so that you can put your focus on the running and not have to think too much in the weight room. Yeah, I think that's something that surprised me when I first started. And one of my problems before I hired Rob was I was overcomplicating it.

I thought I needed to do all these accessory lifts and kind of neglected just, you know, the big four. And, you know, once you've dialed it down and simple works, simple works. As long as you push yourself hard, it'll get it done. I love it. Absolutely. Amen. Yeah, we can get you plenty strong on probably 60% of what I put in there. Yeah. You don't need to do lateral raises, but I know you probably wanted to do them, so I threw them in there.

Yeah. Same with lunges. You didn't need to do lunges, but you probably wanted to do them. I don't know how anybody can want to do lunges, but a lot of people do. So, you know, at the end of the day, bottom line is as the weight gets heavier, you know, that stuff just has to come out because your resources start competing, you know. Just like you saw the lifting came out as you had to get closer to your competition. The more mileage, the less you can lift. So, it's the same kind of thing with lifting. As your squat gets heavier, as your deadlift gets heavier,

you got to do less rowing, less lunging, less of the other stuff so that you can continue to facilitate progress on those major lifts if that is the priority. And at your stage, that should be the priority because you're going to get most of your gains from that at this stage. Definitely. I think right now I want to maintain my strength through this 100K. And after that 100K, we're back and back in mileage and I want to get strong.

Yeah. We're going to hammer it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. That's really the way to do it, I think. I want to make you afraid of the squat. I was telling somebody the other day, because they were, it's a client of mine who was asking about, you know, like, they were just having a frustrating time with one of the lifts. So they're really, they're doing great on the squat, bench, and deadlift, but the press is just like their arch nemesis right now. And I just told them. It's a lot of people. It's a lot of people, right? I told them like, hey, first of all, you're not alone.

Second of all, if you do these lifts long enough, you'll come to hate all of them. And then it's just like, then you just play whack-a-mole. You're like, yeah, man, I love the squat right now. And then, but it's the deadlift is just killing me. And then it'll six months later, it'll be completely this opposite. You'd be like, deadlifts are awesome. And every time you see the squat in your program, you're like thinking about it all day. So yeah, it's funny how that works out. I think I've liked the deadlift the most for the longest. That one stresses me out the least. Yeah. Same.

I hate the deadlift variants though. Oh God, I hate like stiff legged deadlifts, RDLs. RDLs. Oh yeah. Brutal. RDL. Yeah. My bench press is not impressive. RDLs. RDLs, yeah. Oh, yeah. Brutal. RDLs, yeah. Yeah. My bench press is not impressive.

Long limbs, same here. I got monkey arms, so I got a hell of a distance to travel, but it helps on the deadlift. That's why we like the deadlift. Deadlift favors long limbs, especially long arms. But even I've had tall guys with long legs too and just they do fine with deadlift it seems to favor people with height i mean it really does i think the heaviest deadlift ever performed was by a taller person over six foot i mean look at half thor with the 1100 he's like six eight you know yeah i was about to say yeah he's six eight and pretty he's pretty

proportionate for six eight he's not particularly leg, but come on when you're six, eight, everything's long. It's like, do you have a long torso? It's like, yeah. Long legs. Yeah. Everything. But yeah, so I'm actually coaching a guy right now. Who's he's six foot six and we're, we're prepping him for his first strength lifting meet coming up here in a couple months. And yeah, you know, one of the things is like, he's done exceptionally well at the deadlift, and he's a good squatter. But the problem is, you know, he's just six foot six. I'm like, you literally have to move the bar like three times longer than I do. So yeah, it is, you know, you're a different animal. So it's funny. Well, Liv, thanks so much for joining us on the podcast and sharing

some of your, um, your training that you've done running and, uh, best of luck in your future races. We want to hear some updates from you in the future. Oh, for sure. Thank you all for having me. I'll let you all know how this, uh, 25 K goes this weekend. Please do. Yeah. Don't skip your check-in. Oh, never. All right, we signing out, Trent. All right, let's sign it off. All right. Thank you for tuning in to the Weights and Plates podcast.

You can find me at weightsandplates.com or on Instagram at the underscore Robert underscore Santana. You can find the gym if you're here in the Phoenix metro area, whether you live here or are visiting. We're very close to the airport. At weights, double underscore, and double underscore plates. And it's being updated now, by the way. You'll be seeing more videos in the feed if you start following that. I thought I saw a story that you posted there. And I was like, wait a minute, weights and plates. So, excellent.

That's good. Well, you know where to find me, at marmalade underscore cream on Instagram. That's an account for both my lifting exploits and my audio production business. You can also email me at jonesbarbellclub at gmail.com. And Liv, if people want to follow you and you're running, do you have a social media? I have an Instagram. I'm not very active on my social media, but if you want to follow me, my at is Libby Miller, M-I-L-I-B-I-M-I-L-L-R.

And I usually throw up a story about how my raises go. Oh, fantastic. All right. So we'll keep an eye on that and I'll post that link to your Instagram in the show notes too. All right, y'all. We will talk to you again in a couple weeks.