Weights and Plates Podcast - #87 - Thanksgiving: Time to Gain or Restrain?

Episode Date: November 26, 2024

It's that time of the year again, the uniquely American feast that is Thanksgiving. It's a time of feasting and festivities, but for a lot of people the feasting doesn't end when the holiday is over... it extends over the next five weeks until the end of the year. As Dr. Santana points out, there is some research that shows people tend to gain a few pounds over the holidays, then go back to eating at maintenance in the new year. They end up a few pounds heavier, however, and don't lose it, then repeat the process again the next year, and the next. This checks out with practical experience. Most people get fat fairly slowly, over time.   If you don't want to be a statistic, Dr. Santana and Coach Trent offer a few strategies for planning your eating during Thanksgiving and holiday season. Having a basic plan can help you enjoy the holiday without blowing up your goals.   And for you skinny, underweight lifters out there... this can be a great time of the year to kickstart your gains! Put on 5-10lbs, and watch your lifts take off.   Online Diet Coaching and Strength Training with Dr. Robert Santana https://weightsandplates.com/online-coaching/     Follow Weights & Plates  YouTube: https://youtube.com/@weights_and_plates?si=ebAS8sRtzsPmFQf- Instagram: @the_robert_santana Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/weightsandplates Web: https://weightsandplates.com   Coach Trent Trent Jones: @marmalade_cream Email: [e-mail]  

Welcome to the Weights and Plates podcast. I am Robert Santana. I am your host along with Trent Jones, my co-host. What's going on, brother? Not much, man. You know, every time you say brother, I think of the guy at the GNC that you met that was like, you need to do some steroids, brother. You know, that guy could have been like a jobber in some like underground wrestling. You know, he, yeah, he had, he had the look. He could have, he could have done that. He had that kind of generic bro look, but he was, you know, he was he was definitely a, a, a dedicated bodybuilder. You could tell that he wasn't just a typical gym rat. How did it go? You were like, I want to gain 20 pounds of lean. Oh, lean. You're going to have to do. Yeah. I was, yeah. I was like, yeah,

I want to put on some weight for the next football, you know, next football season. All right, man. Well, you know, and yeah, I think at some point he was like, well, you know, he's trying to like bulk up or like, uh, you know, you want lean mass. And I'm like, well, of course lean mass, like, right. Why would I not want lean mass? And he was like, brother, if you booked it, I mean, if you really booked it in the gym, this next three months, you might put on like, I think it was, it wasn't even three months. It was probably like six weeks to the season, you know, when you're, when you're 16, you know, you think that's forever to train, but it's nothing. He was like, he's like, you might put on like four pounds of lean mass. He's like, we just want to bulk up, you know, you can get this stuff. Yeah. But he was, and then he was like, you know, unless you get on steroids, Oh, for that 20 pounds of lean. Didn't he say that?

Yeah, it was something to that effect. Oh, you know, hey, that's good. I would love to go in. I wish we could go interview that guy. Where is he, dude? Can you find him? Well, I can tell you, it was the GNC on North Collins Street in Arlington, Texas, which it does not exist there anymore. It's gone? It used to be right next to a blockbuster. Does that exist there? Of course not. There's one left, I think.

Where is it? In Washington state or something? I have no idea. Is it like a, oh no, no, no. That's a family video. Oh dude. I miss, you know, the family video thing where they're, I miss, yeah, they just own all the real estate. So- Oh, so they can borrow against it? Yeah. Well, yeah. That's my understanding is that family video, I don't know if they're still in operation, but like five or six years ago, they were. And there's not that many of them, but they're spread across the US. And the whole thing is they own their own real estate. So the company as a rentals business was, you know, a money loser, but, uh, the real estate they sat on had appreciated so much. It was, it was just a real estate play. It was just,

you know, real estate speculation, essentially kind of like everything. And they had, yeah. And so, um, yeah, I don't know if, I don't know if they finally cashed out on all that or not, but yeah, it's an interesting story. You should go look it up. Well, we're not going to talk about family video today. We're not talking about family video because that's all I got is some vague details. Today, we're going to talk about our favorite topic this time of year, and that's the holidays. We are, as of the time of this recording, we are one week away from Thanksgiving for our American listeners. And, you know, basically, if you live in the U.S.,

you've got six weeks, arguably eight or nine weeks of holidays all stacked up, you know, one after another. So some people think about the holiday season starting with Thanksgiving, right? You have Thanksgiving and it's a big feast. And then, of course, you have like, you know, the whole rest of the weekend after Thanksgiving, because it's always on a Thursday. So Friday, Saturday, Sunday is just more pigging out. And then you have Christmas after that. But, you know, of course, Christmas isn't just the day of Christmas. You've got like you know, of course, Christmas isn't just the day of Christmas. You've got like the whole week leading up to Christmas, maybe even the couple weeks leading

up to Christmas that are full of, you know, cakes and cookies and parties and all sorts of stuff, right? And then you have a week after that, New Year's, which is another big party for a lot of people. So we're entering into this holiday season that's full of parties and eating and feasting. And I think arguably you could say we're already in it because for a lot of people, it starts with Halloween. You know, Halloween hits and the candy comes out and everybody starts to let their guard down, so to speak, with their dietary habits. so to speak with, um, with their dietary habits. So today we're going to talk about, you know, what do you do? Like, how do you set a plan for this to make your way through the next six weeks and not wake up January one and think, Oh shit, I got to do something about this.

Well, you just say, fuck say fuck it need everything gain weight and then not lose it that's what most people do there's a study on this um when i started my phd program there was there was a guy who was maybe a year ahead of me maybe two years no two years ahead of me because he was finishing my first year. So he was three years ahead of me. I think we're at the same age that we just started later in life. And they were looking at holiday eating patterns. And I think when he did his lit search on it, basically people would gain weight on the holidays, not lose it after the holidays, go into the following holiday heavier than they were the previous previous holiday and then do the same thing year after year after year yeah and uh i don't remember what

his research question was but the general takeaway was that that holiday went these holiday windows alone contribute to the steady weight gain that happens you know over time um it's not i believe it man that's not the only thing but it's a big thing because you gotta figure like most of the year probably eat the same right and it's not like we're shoving extra food down our throat you know it's like you say like humans are creatures of habit people revert back to their just same old things and which which for most people is, um, eating at maintenance, you know, they might pig out, but then they eat light. So, you know, net, it nets out to

somewhere about maintenance except for the holidays. Yeah. Then what, so you have Thanksgiving the day after Thanksgiving, the weekend after Thanksgiving. So you got like four days there, you know, if you're the average person, right. Right. And I come from a Southern family. So that means like, you know, Thanksgiving is a big deal. The day after Thanksgiving. Oh, yeah. It's fantastic. But, uh, yeah, we would always go to, uh, my aunt and uncle's place in Hattiesburg, Mississippi, every Thanksgiving growing up. And yeah, so Thanksgiving, big deal. Day after Thanksgiving, it's all the leftovers, right? So, you know, there's still like six pies left and huge bag of turkey. And then the day after that, you got to drive down to the Gulf and get you some shrimp and then you have a shrimp

boil. Right. And that's Saturday. And then Sunday, you know, you, you kind of eat on more leftovers, pack it up and go home. That's right. But yeah, I think it's true, right? Like if you think about just people you know, maybe this is you, maybe it's personal experience, but a lot of people, it's like, you know, it's not even that they're getting older necessarily is the reason that they start getting fatter. You see a lot of people who go from like age 25 to age 35, right? So from a physiological standpoint, yes, they're getting older,

but it's not like their testosterone falls off a cliff during that time period. They're not going from 45 to 65, right? It's just, you know, let's say a 10-year window, if somebody going from 25 to 35, they wake up a decade later and they're like, oh shit, I'm 30 pounds overweight now. Well, you know, I think things like this could explain that, right? Where it's

like, if they gain on average three pounds a year net for 10 straight years, all of a sudden they're 30 pounds overweight. So it happens slowly. And, uh, and they just wake up one day and they realize, you know, how much they've gained and how fat they've become. I think that's really common. I mean, I see that a lot. 30 seems to be the time. Somewhere between age 30 and 35 in my cohort, I notice that. That's when people go from like they just can't skate by on being 20 anymore.

No. And it starts to catch up. But I think it's more that it's just that accumulated habit is really what it is that you're seeing. Isn't 50 the new 20? Well, I don't think that the, I don't know, I don't think the Gen Xers think that the same way as the boomers about that. I think boomers thought that. They thought 60. I think they think that you know 70s the

new 45 or whatever they're they're eternally optimistic about how good a shape they're in yes yes and they want nine percent body fat at 60 yeah that's right not not all of you not all of you we got some yeah totally reasonable oh there's oh there's some good there's there's some good boomers out there for sure. But as a generation, yeah, it's highly diluted about their physical capabilities and their longevity. But yeah, so let's dig into that. I mean, we've done an episode about this before, so I don't want to beat this horse too much. But I know we have a lot of new listeners, and it is important to have some sort of strategy before you go into it. Because if you just go in there and you're like,

I don't know. I mean, I'll just, you know, I'll just clean things up later. You know, I'll pig out now, clean up later. Well, you got to have like some sort of plan because otherwise later never comes. We all see that, right? Oh, I'll work out next week. Oh, I'll work out next month. You know what? It's almost January 1st. I'll get started January 1st. I don't know about you. I think that I've, I've, as, as the years go by, I'm more and more about not moderating myself on the day of festivities. You know, like, I don't think there's any point in like going to Thanksgiving dinner or lunch or whatever your family does and saying to yourself, I'm only going to have two pieces of pie. I'm only going to eat this.

I don't have any interest in limiting myself. And I don't think it's really very valuable. So I'm all for day of, day after. Just pig out, man. Just have whatever you want. Just enjoy. Enjoy the time. Do you feel the same way?

I do. You know, I did that back in the day when I was learning how to diet, learning how to lose weight. You know, there's a couple holidays where I did that. But what I figured out was that it's not very helpful. It's kind of pointless because if you just eat normal that day, you're probably not going to gain weight and you can just pick it back up the next week and continue what you're doing. You know, it's just, you know, it's not rocket science. At worst, like, you know, if you pound a bunch of carbs over a couple of days, your water weight goes up a little bit, you know,

little, you're carrying a little extra water. You're a little more bloated than normal. Yeah. You're going to, if you go, if you go back on Monday and you get back to your normal routine, you're going to pee all that out by Wednesday or Thursday maybe, you know, by the end of the week, I would imagine. So, yeah, that's kind of how I look at it too. The problem people run into is, you know, I mentioned eat normal, right? Well, what's normal for one person is not normal for another. You know, do you want to go in there and eat an entire pie by yourself or have six servings of mashed potatoes or name your food, right? And that's where I think some people run into problems is, you know, they might restrict too much throughout the year or they might have problems with certain foods

or they just haven't developed a good base of some of these habits. They'll go in and they'll want to have seconds, thirds, fourths, and fifths, and it's what some refer to as a last supper mentality. They want to just eat everything in sight and just keep going until they're sick. And you don't need to do that. You can eat pie, you can eat mashed potatoes, you can eat your turkey't need to do that. You know, you can eat pie, you can eat mashed potatoes, you can eat your turkey, and you can pretty much eat anything that's on the menu. But when you're full, you're full, you're done, you know, so you also got to

prioritize, right? Like, what do you absolutely want to have? You know, I know I want to have turkey, I want to have mashed potatoes, if they're stuffing, I'll have that, and I'll have a piece of pie. And then I'll probably have, you know, cookies at some point or some other small sort of thing. I think my mom made deviled eggs. I would have those. And I, you know, eat these things throughout the night. And I drink as well. You know, I have whiskey or beer.

Usually whiskey, actually. No, I don't have any beer. I have whiskey or wine on Thanksgiving. And I don't restrict any of it. But I also, when I get full, I stop, you know, and I think that's a problem for a lot of people is they see some people see all this stuff and they treat it as though it's the last time they're ever going to be able to eat it again. And they just shove their, you know, stuff their face with it. And bodybuilders do this before

they start cutting, you know, that's where I kind of stole that term from, the last supper mentality. Okay. Yeah, right. You see those pictures of, like, Lee Priest, you know, pounding Big Macs and, like, huge. You know, you just, if you like that stuff, you got to work that stuff in. That's the bottom line. Now, yeah, I don't think that it's wise to cut into a holiday any more than I think it's wise to cut into a competitive lifting meet for different reasons. You know, if you cut into a holiday, it ruins the dynamic with your family and friends.

And you just don't have a good time at a time you should be having a good time. It's a holiday. It's a vacation, right? Right. That's not where you want to put in a bunch of effort. Where you want to put in effort is on your weekends. That's where most people tend to fall off in terms of dietary habits. Yeah, I guess that's, yeah, you make an interesting point there because I'm just not wired that way to like go.

I'm reminded of you're talking about people with the Last Supper mentality. Did you ever watch the Louis C.K. show? I think it was just called Louis, his comedy show that he had. Well, there's, there's this moment where like his brother is a recurring character in the, in the series. It's kind of like curb your enthusiasm or something like that. Right. Um, well, his brother at one point is like trying to, you know, kind of lift up Louis spirit. So he's like, Hey, well, his brother at one point is like trying to, you know, kind of lift up Louie's spirit. So he's like, Hey Louie, double, double. And he's like, no, no, dude, I can't, I can't. He's like, come on, come on, man, let's do a double, double. I think that's what it was called. And then they go on to explain like a double, double means that they, uh, they go to a restaurant, like an Indian restaurant, and they clean it out. You know, just like, they just go nuts. And then they immediately drive to another restaurant and do the same thing.

So I think they're like debating where they're going to go. Do we like, you know, Italian, you know, Italian-Mexican, you know, pizza, pizza hibachi. And I think they land on something like indian and then italian and and somewhere fucking good it's so good right but like it's somewhere along that that uh show like the louis character says something the effect of like you know you're not done when you're full you're done when you hate yourself and yeah yeah, I'm not, I'm not wired like that either. Um, um, when I'm full, I'm full, especially as you get older too, you know, it sucks when you want to gain weight

to get strong. Right. Cause you have to force yourself to be like, it does. Yeah. It's hard. Yeah. Forcing yourself to eat food. You don't want to eat is pretty damn hard. I think for me, it's easier than not eating food. I believe it. I'm sorry. It's harder. I'd say trying to force myself to eat food is harder than trying to force myself to eat less food and lose. Dude, right now, I think I've gained what? From my lowest, that was 170 at the bottom of my last weight loss phase in 2022. I put on 37 pounds. I'm on 207 now.

And I've eaten more, but I'm not going to lie in saying that I gamed it and had more fat. Like, I don't think I'm, I'm definitely not eating 500 carbs. Yeah. But I'm probably getting over 300. I'm just not getting 500. Yeah. Yeah. But like, I'm not sure that it would make a huge difference. Maybe, you know, maybe I should try to do that.

That's a whole nother episode. That's a whole nother episode. I, you know what? But yeah, like I think about that. I'm like, okay, 500 carbs and keeping my fat, you know, under 120, you know, 120 or less. Right. That's a lot of fucking food. And like, I just can't do it like I used to, man. I just can't. Yeah. The volume of food is difficult for sure. Yeah. That's a different episode, but I, you know, I don't know. I, I,

I don't have a PhD or anything, but, uh, I, my experience has been that you can eat more fat than you think and stay leaner than you think, uh, even when gaining modestly, but it really depends on the quality of your food. Um, that's an, that's a discussion for another episode. Um, but yeah, so I guess, you know, I look at this, I look at the whole, like going into the holidays as there's only so much damage you can do, so to speak, because it's a, it's a small window of time. Um, most people, even people that eat, you know, that are gaining a lot of weight year over year, they're not doing that. Like, like you said before, they're doing that in, you know,

incrementally, right. Over like the weekends, weekend after weekend, after weekend, after weekend. Um, it's not happening in one go. And so, yeah, you know, even if it's for even if your Thanksgiving turns into four days, well, if you get back to your normal thing on Monday, then I don't think there's any harm done in the long run. I think it's pretty minimal. But it's like you said, it's like there's a lot of opportunities between thanksgiving and the actual day of christmas for more you know for more slippage right right i don't know do they do holiday work parties anymore now that everybody works from home virtual virtual work yeah we just sit there and like yeah just pig out and on zoom or something but that used to be a thing right you

know so like people would bring in cakes and cookies and stuff to the office, like, you know, every day. When I worked in healthcare, there were the most unhealthy things possible in the fucking break room, man. It was terrible. Yeah. Donuts, of course. Yeah.

Yeah. That's what I remember. Donuts, pastries, and they'd get like garbage food from fast food places, you know, catering from like El Pollo Loco. Yeah. So let's talk about what you just said. So you eat on Thursday, Thanksgiving, then you have leftovers Friday. And then Saturday and Sunday, you might continue the leftovers and eat out, you know, that typically happens. Yeah.

So there's like this big giant water weight gain. You piss a lot of that out, but then you have a couple extra pounds that don't get pissed out. And then, you know, you continue on with your normal habits Monday through Friday. Maybe you eat out more because it's between Thanksgiving and Christmas. And then you have Christmas dinner, Christmas Eve dinner, Christmas dinner, then leftovers from Christmas dinner. Right. And it's not unfathomable that somebody would gain five to 10 pounds and all that, you know? Yeah. Right. Right. And, uh, you know, then you've got the minority of the population that new year, new me, they lose some of it the first few months and gain it all back, you know, over the next holiday. That's exactly right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, um, I mean,

there, there are some things you can do that we've talked about on other shows, but to kind of rehash them quickly, you know, you don't have to, you don't have to make every meal a calorie bomb. Right. So like, even if it's Thanksgiving day, I mean, I do this, like, so for me, I kind of think about, sometimes I think about gaming my sort of marginal utility of food. If we want to want to kind of borrow a term from what kind of philosophy is that? I forget. But, but anyway, anyway, like, okay, well, how much, how much, if I could assign like a unit value to the amount of enjoyment, satisfaction, happiness, whatever you want to call it from that, you know, piece of pecan pie. Well, there's like an optimal hunger curve going into Thanksgiving dinner, right? If I'm like starving and I, you know, I'm like past, I'm like fainting from lack of blood sugar, then the meal is not very enjoyable because I'm just getting back to like normal function and baseline.

So that's not, that's no good. I don't want to be like starving. But on the other hand, like if I was full and I ate a bunch of delicious food leading up to it, it would be low, right? I wouldn't get that much more enjoyment out of it. So there's kind of this optimal curve. So I always have a light breakfast on Thanksgiving day or a day like that. So Christmas day, Christmas Eve, whatever. I always have a pretty light breakfast. I'll get some protein in, but that's it. Like I might just have a protein shake. That's it. I won't need any solid food. And then're, if we're doing a Thanksgiving dinner, then I'll just have like a lightish lunch with some solid food. Again, try to get my protein in,

um, mainly cause it just keeps me satiated throughout the day. And then that way I can hit Thanksgiving hard and I can have all my favorite stuff and I'm not gonna, you know, I'm not gonna tap out before I get to the chocolate pie that's right because i really wanted one um so i think that's a decent strategy because um you know you're you're really just making it more enjoyable at the end of the day by doing that right and it's not like you're gonna enjoy like what are you gonna get from like a big breakfast the day of thanksgiving i don't think yeah i left overover turkey. Come on. Yeah. It's not that much. The day after, I mean. Yeah. So, you know, so this is where, this is why I always tell people after Halloween, you know, if you're concerned about, if you're concerned about

your weight after Halloween, you really need to throw away all that candy. Like I don't care. I know it's expensive now. It's, it's a lot more expensive than it used to be. And the trick or treaters only picked up half of it and you don't want to, you know, you don't want to just throw it away, but you need to, because if you don't, you're going to end up on Thanksgiving morning hungry. Cause you're trying to like eat a little light and you're like, well, you know, I'll just have an almond joy. And then four almond joys later, you know, you're still got four hours to go before the main event and uh yeah well you know there's no reason to do that you have one pretty soon turns into two you have two you can't

just have one turns into three yeah yeah yeah you can't i can't pretty soon turns into four i gotta throw that shit out because i that's almond joy i always bring up almond joys because i just i can't stop it's like your uh coffee bars or whatever that you, Oh yeah. You remember those? Shit. You told me about it. Yeah. That's, there's some stuff that it's just, it's, I don't know what it is. It just short circuits my brain and I can't, I can't, the only way I will stop is when the bag's empty. That's it. Um, so there's that, right? So if, if you are concerned about maintaining your body weight, or at least not gaining too much weight over the holidays, just have a basic strategy. Like, okay, you know, when Monday rolls around, I'm going to just throw out the rest of the leftovers.

I don't need any more pie after that. Even if it's there, just throw it away and just get back to your normal thing, right? If you have some planned times where you're gonna eat out or there's a party or whatever that you're gonna go to, do the same thing on those days, right? Like just be a little mindful of what you're eating leading up to that to minimize the damage, so to speak. But there's another opportunity here that we need to address.

And I'm definitely, I guess it's just because of the composition of the people in my barbell club right now, but I'm definitely highlighting this going into the holiday season this year. And that's for some people, this can be a really good way to finally like kickstart yourself into actually gaining some weight and putting some fucking weight on the bar. I'm talking to the skinny guys right now. Yeah. The thing is they'll eat on Thanksgiving. Then the next day they won't be hungry and they just won't eat. Yeah, it's true.

That's true. That's the problem, right? They'll have the calorie bomb and then go back to nothing. Look, people, eating to gain weight is harder than eating to lose weight if you try to do it correctly. Mm-hmm. And the volume of food is insane. It is. It is.

But, you know, this can be a good time for you. this can be a good time for you. If you can get through this season and find yourself up five pounds or 10 pounds, um, then guess what? Your squats finally going to move. You're finally going to feel stable in the bottom of the squat. Your belt's actually going to compress a little bit and give you some stiffness and, uh, your bench is going to go up. Your deadlift is going to go up. Your press might even go up. But if you have been stuck and you are, you know, you're just grinding away at weights that you have a suspicion are too low, like you should be able to go higher,

and you're stuck right now, gain some weight. I know who you are. You're 6 feet tall and you're 185 pounds and you will never have a big squat until you get over 200 pounds. And I'm sorry, 185 isn't a good weight for you. No, it's not. Okay. 185 is not a good weight at 5'8". All right, I've talked about this recently. I've been at 185 recently. At 5'4", it's a decent weight. 5'6", okay, whatever.

But yeah, if you're six foot, you need to weigh, I mean, I really like to see my guys at six feet at least weigh 205 to 215. I mean, I really, that's to start with. I'm just, just baseline. You have to5 to 215. I mean, I really... That's to start with. I'm just... To start. You're going to have to get to 275. Yeah.

I want to see 225 to 245, ideally. And then, you know, if they want to actually get strong, yeah, there's, you know, 275, absolutely. It's in the cards if you got the right frame for it. People don't understand that these champions,

and, you know, I already hear what you're saying, skinny six-foot guy. I don't understand that these champions and you know i already hear what you're saying skinny six foot guy i don't care i'm not trying to power lift okay i get it you're still dead lifting 315 though i get you don't want to power lift but or 275 or 245 right yeah yeah or that right so let's let's have some context here yeah uh kirk Karwoski squatted, what, 1,000 for two in a single-ply suit? He was 275 at 5'8". Okay. Let's go to higher heights.

Eddie Hall is 6'3". Yeah. And he deadlifted 1,100, and he was 4'10", I think, 4'20". Over 400, for sure. Yeah, probably. Over 4'10". Over 4'10", I think, 4'20". Over 400, for sure. Yeah, probably. Over 4'10". Over 4'10". Now, these guys have superior genetics and are on as many drugs as their body can tolerate

and are willing to destroy themselves to perform the best and win. So we're not saying that you got to do what these guys did. We're just trying to add context to the situation. So if you're six foot three and the most extreme situation of a guy who's six foot three and try to get as strong as he can is 410, then I'm sorry, 275 is not that bad, man. That's going to get you a modest result that you want. You know, we're not saying that you need to get to 275 to be competitive in powerlifting or strongman because that's not competitive in powerlifting or strongman. If you're 6'3", you got to be 350 to 450, you know, depending on how you're built. Yeah.

And be willing to take a bunch of drugs, dedicate your life to it, work through injuries and possibly get career-ending injuries in the process. You know, that's a whole different animal. different animal but if the extreme is 410 to 420 at six foot three then dude 250 to 275 to get a modest result without any steroid use and taking modest risk is not unreasonable yep yeah the lightest guy to ever win the world's strongest man was the uh finn uh yuko ahala great champion he won it twice back to back i think oh no i think he went yeah won it second place won it he's the lightest guy to ever win he's six foot six foot one somewhere in there he's like 285 so yeah and what pudjanowski won eight or nine times he was like like 315, I think. Yeah. I don't even think he was six feet tall.

No, he was 5'10". Yeah, right. Yeah. I mean, these guys are genetic freak shows, but still, yeah, I think it illustrates the point. and fairly lean and developed and muscular looking, then you're going to have to get to 245 to get down to 225 later and have enough strength to make that muscle show at 225. So, you know, I just, I know I'm, I'm meat and I work with a lot of people out there that you're thin. Um, you might even be skinny fat as, you fat, as we call it, or sometimes people call it dad bod, on the higher end of skinny fat. And your back hurts and your squat is stuck and your deadlift's stuck and your bench press is stuck and you're focused on trying to lose body fat, but you're not going to move the needle until you get your lifts up.

And the only thing that's going to get your lifts up. And the only thing that's going to get your lifts up is gaining some weight. And, um, this is a good opportunity to kickstart that process, you know? Absolutely. Yeah. I think sometimes I I've, I've gone through phases and, you know, I'm not a big guy. I'm like you, I'm five, eight and not a particularly large frame. And I've gone through phases where I've just, you know, I would get sick or something and I'd lose some weight because of the sickness and I just couldn't get my appetite back. So I basically would, my appetite would be below my baseline post sickness or post stress or whatever it was, you know, and, um, I, you know, it, it, sometimes it takes like some concerted effort to really push past

that. You've got to really like jumpstart your, your appetite, so to speak. And, um, you know, I've done various things over the years. Like I remember one time, like I just, I found this like breakfast sandwich or something at this, uh, local coffee shop across the street from the gym. And I just ate that breakfast sandwich every day for like a month. And it was, it was a big calorie bomb. And it was something about doing that that just sort of opened my appetite back up. I just got used to eating a lot of food again. And so that could be you. And for the fat guys, this is a good opportunity to pay attention to hunger cues. Go in there with the goal of eating what you want to eat, but stopping when you're satisfied.

And if you're never satisfied, then stopping when you're not insanely hungry. You know, guys like that. They're like, I'm always hungry. Right. Well, part of that is just you're dieting, trying to diet too much and not being successful. So it's just a, you know, good exercise for implementing some of these habits, right? Turkey is a great source of protein. You know, obviously you can prepare with more fat, you know, but that's irrelevant to this discussion. You know, one of the tips and tricks I give people is start with a protein source.

Then, you know, move your way around the plate. You know, you can, we say protein and the vegetable and the starch, but not everybody eats vegetables if we're being practical about it. So start with the protein source. Eat the turkey. Have a couple servings of turkey. Get yourself reasonably full, then eat the other stuff, right? And then don't just eat things because they're there either, right?

Like pick the things you want, you know, like be strategic about it, but don't be neurotic about it if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah. I know at least, you know, in my family, the table is like overflowing with stuff. Like there's just no way you can have one of everything. I mean, maybe some people can. I'd be impressed if you could. But there's no way you can have one of everything. I mean, maybe some people can, I'd be impressed if you could, but there's no way I could have one of everything. So yeah, you gotta, you know, gotta have some strategy on what you're going to eat. For me, it's the pecan pie. Gotta have the pecan pie. We gotta have the chocolate pie, pecan first, chocolate second, pumpkin pie third. And I like pumpkin pie.

Yeah. I would agree with that because I like pumpkin pie. Yeah. I would agree with that because I like pumpkin pie and I always think about it in terms of Thanksgiving and Christmas, but I prefer the pecan first. Chocolate's pretty good too. Yeah.

I like chocolate everything, so that makes sense to me. Yeah. A good chocolate pie, that is quickly becoming my end game pie is the chocolate pie. I don't know.

Is that a thing outside the South? I'm not really sure. They have it at my mom's Thanksgiving. Somebody brings it. Okay. All right't know. Is that a thing outside the South? I'm not really sure. They have it at my mom's Thanksgiving. Somebody brings it. Okay. All right.

Yeah. Yeah. I heard, I noticed you said stuffing earlier. Yeah. Not dressing. Depends which

Thanksgiving I'm at. I had dressing at my stepfather's Thanksgiving because they were from Tennessee. Yeah. That would be, yeah. We dress in the South.

Yeah, yeah, it makes sense. That's when I first had it. See, I know the difference. I do know the difference because I used to have both. My mom would make stuffing. My stepfather's mother or sister, you know, his family, they would make, somebody made dressing. I can't remember who.

The mother or the sister. But yeah, I i've had dressing i've had stuffing i think i like dressing better to be honest i think it's the superior form i mean i don't know how i don't know how everyone makes stuffing but you know i guess the the name comes from actually stuffing uh a bird right stuffing the bird don't you stuff it inside yeah you stuff the turkey and you cook it inside the turkey i'm pissed because i've never actually had that and i'm a purist type of guy with things you know i want to try that well it makes me wonder like so with stuffing do you add a fat source because like i've had um you know i've cooked like stuffed pheasant before but usually you add like you know pancetta or something to it that you know it's a real fatty meat to contribute that i don't know because you know, pancetta or something to it that, you know, it's a real fatty meat to contribute to that.

I don't know. Because, you know, turkey is pretty lean. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. I think that would make a difference. But at some point people got lazy and started serving the stuffing separate on its own. So it's basically dressing.

It's just basically worse dressing. Yeah. I would agree. Yeah, I would agree. So I, yeah, I think the last thing is I, I always seem to under play this when I'm, you know, trying to figure out what's going on with, with clients that, um, that aren't happy with their body composition. And, you know, it always comes out eventually that's drinking, it's alcohol. I think that gets a lot of people, right.

And, um, you know, Hey man, I'm not, this is, it's not my place to, it's not my place to be a counselor or anything like that, but there are definitely people out there that, um, they just can't have one drink. And if they start drinking, it turns into four or five, six drinks. And then, you know, it's, it's like not just scotch or whatever. It's like scotch and soda, or it's rum and Coke. And then it's ordering stuff out or it's eating a bunch of extra shit because now you're hammered. just have a drink for satisfaction because it tastes good you know um i don't know i i again i'm not i'm not a counselor i'm not uh you know i'm not a psychiatrist or a psychologist whatever but i see that undo a lot of people's progress too it's the it's the drinking that becomes the trigger for eating way beyond what they would have like if they never drank they'd be fine

but the drinking leads to a lot of other negative behaviors that they don't want for eating way beyond what they would have. Like if they never drank, they'd be fine. But the drinking leads to a lot of other negative behaviors that they don't want. With alcohol, I mean, again, with alcohol it comes back to the same thing. You want to go in and be strategic, not neurotic, right? So use this as an exercise of restraint, but productive restraint, right? Like if you're an alcoholic, then you know who you are.

You probably, you know, if you're at a point where you've stopped drinking, you need to continue not drinking. You know, this is, and this goes for certain foods too, right? Like if you're at Thanksgiving dinner and you know that eating those bread rolls is going to lead to you eating more bread during the week, you probably shouldn't eat those things, right? Like some things are just hazardous to your health behaviors, right? And you got to know that, right? For some people, they can't have a piece of pie, Trent, because they're going to eat ice cream every day, or they're going to eat pie every day, you know, or they're going to start buying Oreos again, you know? And for those people, yeah, I'm sorry, you're on a permanent fucking diet because certain foods are like alcohol or illicit drugs, right? And that's just, you know, something you got to either continue dealing with if you've gotten to that point where you understand that and you're working through it or, you know, move in that direction.

But assuming that these extremes are not the case, then, yeah, you should tell yourself, okay, I'm going to have a glass of wine. I'm going to have a cocktail, right? Maybe two, right? And cut yourself off, you know? But if you know two makes you impaired and you're likely to have three simply because you stopped caring after two, then have one, you know? And save that two to three drink night for another time, you know, because you're not just drinking, you're having a bunch of food too. Right. So again, my take, my message to those of you who are celebrating the holiday and want to know what to do here is be strategic,

not neurotic. That's the, that's the slogan here. Right. And that goes for vacations or anything else where you have to deviate from your routine, right? But for the most part, you know, assuming you don't have addictive-like behaviors around certain types of food, that's what you should do. If you do have those addictive type behaviors around certain types of food, then you have to keep avoiding those foods. If you think it's going to spiral you down, you know, for the rest of the year and the next year, and, you know, it's going to take you six to nine months to undo that, you know, then yeah, you know who you are if that's the case. But if you don't have those problems where you don't have trigger foods like that, that will carry into days, weeks, and months, then, you know, strategize, you know, let's say, you know, dinner rolls aren't really your thing. You don't have to eat them.

You know, you can pass on that and then have, you know, something else, have pie. Right. Or whatever food it is that you like that somebody else may not like. Some people don't like sweets and they just pass on the pie entirely, you know. So, you know, we're talking to lots of different people with lots of different palates. But don't feel obliged to eat everything because it's there. That's my big message here. You know, be strategic, not neurotic.

Yeah, I know for me, it's the beer. You know, people will want to, like, hand you a beer when you're hanging out. And, you know, especially if it's, like, Bud Light or some shit like that. Like, I'm sorry. It's fucking terrible. That's why I bring my own alcohol to these things. Yeah, I don't want that shit. Like, I don't even like craft beer that much anymore.

I used to be really into beer. I don't know why. I just kind of lost my taste for it. I still like Miller High Life. Yeah, I mean, sure. Like, every once in a while, there's like, yeah, a nice beer on a hot day after mowing or something. It's great.

It's amazing. Coors Light. But, yeah, a nice beer on a hot day after mowing or something. That's great. It's amazing. But, uh, yeah, yeah, please no Coors Light, no Natty Ice. No, I don't even, I don't even want your fat tire. Like it's, and whatever, if you like the beer, that's great. But like, I think that's the thing is I realized at some point that I was drinking beer just because it was there and because somebody handed it to me. I don't even want it, you know, it's, it's, I don't really like it that much. And so for me, I know that I'm looking forward to a nice glass of whiskey, like, and I'm going to bring, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to bring out the good stuff, right. Um, I'm going to bring out the pappy or whatever. Okay. So if I'm looking forward to that, like, I'm not going to drink like three or four beers leading up to dinner. I know for me, again, going back to the marginal,

you know, utility or whatever I said it was, you know, so looking at the value of that food, if I fill up on beer, I'm going to be pissed because I'm not going to eat as much food as I want. And you don't enjoy it as much either because you're full. And I don't enjoy it, right, yeah. So yeah, I know I'm looking forward to that whiskey later. So I'm going to pass on the beer leading up to dinner and then, um, and I'll have a whiskey

later or a couple or, you know, whatever I want cocktail. Um, but yeah, I think that's the thing. Like, I don't know. I know not everybody is like this, but, uh, I know a lot of people are where you just kind of end up eating stuff just because it's there and you don't have to, you can just pass on that. Um, but you know, you just have to have some awareness of it going into it. So there you go. Um, I think there's just a little reminder show to just be mindful going into the holiday season this year. And, uh, you know, this is a good opportunity to crush some PRS when you're full after all those, you know, this is a good opportunity to crush some PRs when you're full after all that food. So good luck with your squats.

Good luck with your deadlifts. Good luck with your benches. Good luck with your presses. I hope you get some big PRs. I know I'm knocking on the door of a potential squat PR in the next four to six weeks. And a lot of things have to go right before that happens, but it's in sight. So I'm definitely going to be loading up on food for the next six weeks to make that happen if I can. Well, I have a bench PR hopefully coming up. Say a prayer, people. My right arm can do it.

My left arm needs to cooperate. Well, you know, you got to try it next Friday after Thanksgiving, right? Yeah, I got it next Tuesday. We'll see. Okay. All right. Well, you know you got to try it next Friday after Thanksgiving, right? Yeah, I got it next Tuesday. We'll see. Okay. All right. Well, you can try it again on Friday if it doesn't go on Tuesday. Sure. Why not?

Adventure every day, bro. A little early Christmas in the gym. So, all right, man. Let's sign off. All right. Thank you for tuning in to the Weights and Plates podcast. You can find me at WeightsandPlates.com where I sell online coaching, diet, training, or both.

And I also have consults there if you just want to ask me questions and get some direction for your DIY journey. If you're in Metro Phoenix, I have Weights and Plates Gym just south of Sky Harbor Airport off 32nd Broadway

near the Tempe-Phoenix city boundary. You can find me on Instagram at the underscore Robert underscore Santana, where I post most of my content. We're also on YouTube now at youtube.com slash weights underscore and underscore plates. Man, all of them. Did you get them all? I think so. I think so. There's an Instagram page for the gym, but I haven't been updating it. Maybe I'll start. There we go. All right. Well, you know where to find me on Instagram. I'm at marmalade underscore cream, just like I always have been.

And if you want to email me about coaching, I do offer online coaching. You can find me jonesbarbellclub at gmail.com. All right. We'll talk to you all again after Thanksgiving in a couple weeks.