Weird Medicine: The Podcast - 639 - Quinine's FDA Ban: Sorry Cramp Sufferers!

Episode Date: July 29, 2025

Dr Steve, Dr Scott, and Lady Diagnosis discuss: What are Quercetin and Zinc used for? Can you use vascepa prophylactically? Quinine pills for leg cramps? Why was it banned by the FDA? A challenging hip pain and more Please visit: ⁠⁠⁠⁠simplyherbals.net/cbd-sinus-rinse⁠⁠⁠⁠ (the best he's ever made. Seriously.) ⁠⁠⁠⁠instagram.com/weirdmedicine⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠x.com/weirdmedicine⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠stuff.doctorsteve.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ (it's back!) ⁠⁠⁠⁠youtube.com/@weirdmedicine ⁠⁠⁠⁠(click JOIN and ACCEPT GIFTED MEMBERSHIPS. Join the "Fluid Family" for live recordings!) ⁠⁠⁠⁠youtube.com/@normalworld ⁠⁠⁠⁠(Check out Dave and crew, and occasionally see your old pal!) supertip.gg/drsteve (make your pals say awful things through the magic of AI) CHECK OUT THE ROADIE COACH stringed instrument trainer! ⁠⁠⁠⁠roadie.doctorsteve.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ (the greatest gift for a guitarist or bassist! The robotic tuner!) see it here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠stuff.doctorsteve.com/#roadie⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also don't forget: ⁠⁠⁠⁠Cameo.com/weirdmedicine⁠⁠⁠⁠ (Book your old pal right now because he's cheap! "FLUID!") Most importantly! ⁠⁠⁠⁠CHECK US OUT ON PATREON! ⁠⁠⁠⁠ ALL NEW CONTENT! Robert Kelly, Mark Normand, Jim Norton, Gregg Hughes, Anthony Cumia, Joe DeRosa, Pete Davidson, Geno Bisconte, Cassie Black ("Safe Slut"). Stuff you will never hear on the main show ;-) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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If you just read the bio for Dr. Steve, host of Weird Medicine on Sirius XM 103, and made popular by two really comedy shows, Obi and Anthony and Ron and Fez, you would have thought that this guy was, was a bit of, you know, a clown. Why can't you give me the respect that I'm entitled to? I've got diphtheria crushing my esophagus. I've got Tobolivir stripping from my nose. I've got the leprosy of the heartbound, exacerbating my infectable woes. I want to take my brain out, blasted with the wave, an ultrasonic, ecographic, and a pulsating shave.

I want a magic pill. ailments, the health equivalent of Citizen Kane, and if I don't get it now in the tablet, I think I'm doomed, then I'll have to go insane. I want to requiem for my disease, so I'm paging Dr. Steve.

Dr. Steve. You'll take a careful. From the world-famous Cardiff Electric Network Studios in beautiful downtown, OJ City, it's weird medicine the first and still only on a censored medical show on the history broadcast radio.

Now a podcast. Dr. Steve with my little pal, Dr. Scott, the traditional Chinese medicine provider, gives me street cred with the whack alternative medicine assholes. Hello, Dr. Scott. Hey, Dr. Steve. And we've got Lady Diagnosis back from sabbatical. Hello, Lady Diagnosis. Hello, Dr. Steve.

This is a show that would, uh, people would never listen to on the radio as a medical show. But if you have a question that you're embarrassed to take your regular medical provider, If you can't find an answer anywhere else, give us a call 347-7-66-4-3-3-23. That's 347. Pooh-head. Follow us on Twitter at Weird Medicine and at D.R. Scott, W.M. And do you still have at lady diagnosis?

Yes, I do. Okay, and at lady diagnosis. Visit our website at Dr. Steve.com for podcast, medical news and stuffing it by. Most importantly, we're not your medical providers. Take everything here with a grain of salt. Don't act on anything you hear on this show without talking it over with your health care provider. Check out stuff. dot Dr.steve.com.

Stuff. Dottersteve.com. You can find the roadie robotic tuner. We're still going to get you a rowdy coach lady diagnosis. Mel B. couldn't find the one that I gave her, so I don't know where it is. Oh, my God. She lost it? Yeah, she died apparently.

She gave me a box, but what was in it was just picks and stuff. The coach was not in there. Oh, my God. Check out Dr. Scott's website at Simplyurbals. Check us out at patreon.com slash weird medicine And if you go to dabblegames.

MyShapify.com You can buy Wetbrain, the party game, which really is a fun game. But you've got to have four people, it's not as much fun. Six people to eight people. It's way fun. And people

are yelling at each other and screaming and stuff. and that's what makes it a great game. And we have dabble dice coming out very soon. I found a new supplier. And before I had to buy these blank dice and put stickers on them, and it was just a pain in the ass, so I made like 20 sets

and took them to the first hackamania, and that was that. But I found a supplier where we can get the dice made very inexpensively and everything, and should have them in about a month. And that's a really fun party game as well. So we're branching out a little bit.

Check out Dr. Scott's website at simplyerbils.net. How's things going over there? Going pretty well. Now, am I hearing that you're shutting this down? I'm probably going to shut it down at the end of this year. Why? It's time. So stock up?

Too much work for not enough money. Too much a little bit of everything. Yeah. So I'm going to either sell it or close it. Yeah, I think selling it's a good idea. Nobody else has what you have in your formulas and stuff. No, I know they're great. Do you have any buyers? Not yet.

I mean, have you looked into it? Not yet, no. Well, we're going to put it out there to the universe. Okay. Well, people will be very sad about that. But so, stock up on CBD nasal spray. Ooh, I'm in, I'm in. And nasal rents for the, you know, allergy season that's coming up.

Absolutely. All right. And then if you want me to say, fluid to your mama, cameo.com slash weird medicine. And I did one for Steve B, who was doing a new podcast. He can give me a $100 tip. It's crazy. I told him, if you meant to send a $1 tip and you accidentally got the decimal points off, I'll be happy to refund you, but that was very nice.

Thank you. That is cool. And we've been working with Mr. Melton on Super Tip. I had it working. Everything was great. And then I upgraded the operating system in my computer, which is stupid. Don't ever. Why did I do that?

Everything was working. But I'm getting ready to upgrade to a Mac Mini in here. And so I thought it would flow better if I had the right operating system on there. and it is fucked up everything. So now super tip's not working. OBS, it took, well, I mean, we're 40 minutes late getting started. So, you know, anyway, I've been fiddling with this thing all morning because I turned on the computer all of a sudden nothing worked.

He was fiddling with the tip. Mm-hmm. Well, the super tip is fun. You can have Michi Okaku arguing with Stephen Hawking, and you can use my voice. I'm going to send them yours. We got Stacey DeLouch so people can make him say things. So what it is, Lady Diagnosis, they go to supertip.g.g.

slash Dr. Steve, and they can put in text and then choose which voice they want. And then the AI will generate the message using the person's voice. Oh, that is so cool. And I was really excited about using it today. I told Mr. Melton that I wanted to be the one that didn't require any tech support. And so I really did all this on my own and just followed the instructions and it worked. And now it doesn't work again. So I don't know what's going on.

So anyway, no super dip today. Damn it to hell. But you can ruin the show. I've got the interrupt the show thing on, which probably won't last very long. Because what happens there is people can pay an extra fee. and it just, I don't have to click anything, it just interrupts the show. And then all of a sudden this thing starts talking.

That could be fun. It has been fun in the past on certain shows. I'm not so sure it'll work on this one. And then we were going to take live calls and I go to Skype and Skype doesn't exist anymore. It's Microsoft Teams now and I can't figure out how to make an outgoing call so I can link up to our call screening software.

So that's the next two years. three weeks that's what I'm going to be doing is I'm going to have to finally bite the bullet and redo everything in here so I shall do that it's okay all right well you guys have anything

today we can just go straight to our questions and stuff we've got questions I do have a question from the oh you do? Okay what do you got let's see here from old Johnny Longfather John Long Filler.

Johnny Longfellar. Oh, Johnny Longfeller. Question. Someone told me I need to take zinc and quercetin. Why would they tell me that? Okay. So for COVID? Well, I think just in general, but specifically we can talk about how they work, might help you work

like on COVID or flu. Right. So quercetin or quercetin, however you want to pronounce it, we have used it for long COVID. So it's a plant pigment. It's a flavonoid. Lavenoid. Yeah, or flavonoid, however you want to pronounce it. If you're in Helioliville, Tennessee.

But it is an antioxidant and it's anti-inflammatory. And some people have claimed that it has salutary effects in long COVID. So now zinc also has been demonstrated to, decrease the duration of the common cold. And when it first came out, it was a nasal spray, and people were getting anosmia from it. In other words, they were spraying the stuff up their nose, and there was a small subset of people couldn't smell anymore, so they changed it to zinc lozenges. And you're talking about a one-third decrease in the time for the common cold, which was why people were pushing it for

COVID, because many of our, quote-unquote, colds are actually coronaviruses that our bodies have gotten used to over decades and generations. And so they figured that, well, that might make sense for, you know, this new coronavirus, you know, SARS-CoV-2 because it does seem to help with the other, you know, endemic coronaviruses. So anyway, so what were you going to? say about it. No, exactly the same thing, just both have been shown to help some with viruses and hopefully boost your immunity and decrease the length or the duration of the common cold

and possibly the flu. Yeah, I hear studies suggest where CETA may support immune function, though research in this area is still ongoing. So this is one of those things where people see some rat study and then they go, okay, well, it's safe to take, so you might as well take it. Maybe it'll help. Well, you find it in, you know, in fruits and vegetables. Correct. So each are fruits and vegetables. Do you know, right?

Just like Hocahubin used to say. Just like Hulkomania used to say. Well, and it's like that whole thing that we have with fish oil. They found that people who ate fish had fewer heart attacks and strokes in Nova Scotia, in Nova Scotia, in Norway and stuff. So the American answer to that is we just take a bunch of fish and put them in a vat and render them down and turn it into a pill and then eat whatever we want to. It doesn't really work that way. Do you know, I'm going to ask you a question. You may know the answer to this, Dr. Scott.

If you do, you get a bill. What is the vegetable or fruit, whatever, that has the highest known natural source of quercetin, do you know? avocado no it would be capers oh capers yeah oh wow that's something is capers a vegetable yeah it's a flower isn't that

isn't that what a caper is is a flower it's a pickled flour and green tea black tea and buckwheat there you go so there you go green tea but yeah Dr. Scott was right about vegetables red onions kale broccoli asparagus bell peppers

and tomatoes and then the fruits, apples with the skin, blueberries and stuff, yeah. So for COVID, are you kind of saying then that cold, not symptoms, cold products will help COVID also, since it's kind of the same symptoms? Well, I mean, we don't have anything to kill, you know, the common cold.

That's the problem. So we have things that will kill COVID now, you know, with the advent of shit of malnupyrovir and pachshilovin and those things will actually, you know, inhibit its growth. But, and those things presumably, if you had just a regular coronavirus,

cold might actually help with that as well. I don't know. They're not studying that because nobody cares about the common cold. But yeah, zinc. That was the hypothesis that since zinc decreases common cold and very many common colds are endemic coronaviruses that maybe zinc would be effective for, you know, this coronavirus as well. So that's why people were taking it. But anyway, yeah, so when we started having people with long COVID, there were some people that were claiming that queer CNA.

You know, we don't have great data on any of this. but since it's a flavonoid unlikely to do any significant harm so just make sure you read the label and take things based on what your primary care tells you so anyway all right what else did you have anything else got one more yeah yeah just a just one just popped up from chris mac thoughts on using vasipa prophylactically so that's v-a-s-c-E-P-A-S-E-E-P-A it's official yeah yeah It's an EPA visual. So prophylactically, for what? That's the thing.

So they prescribe it to reduce cardiovascular events, heart attack, stroke. What's prophylactically mean? To prevent something. Oh, okay. You heard of a prophylactic, like, you know, a condom. That's what I was thinking. Prevents disease and pregnancy. Okay, that's what I was wondering.

Right, but no, they're not putting this on the penis. They're not rubbing the fish hole in a penis because that'd be weird. That's what I was wondering. prophylactic it just means preventative so you know it's like if you drink you know you drink corn juice prophylactically maybe to keep you from getting a cold or something yeah or something that people want to do that but it's it doesn't work but so for people who have very high triglyceride levels they'll use vesape for that they don't really know how it works it reduces triglyceride production aids in the clearance and reduces inflammation protects blood vessels so a lot of coronary disease is really inflammatory disease going on. So prophylactically, maybe if you have a... Well, that's why they prescribe it. Well, sure.

Well, certainly if you have a, if you're forward thinking or forward looking, if you've got a family history of, say, type 2 diabetes. Or you have a family history of increased fat in your blood cell. Or you have... Or you have an increase in triglycerides. Right. Or you think you're going to... Then you're taking it prophylactically to prevent heart attack and stroke.

Right. So whenever I hear a question... like that, it's like, well, what are you trying to accomplish? People say is vitamin D, is it good? And you go, well, for what? To prevent rickets? Fuck, yeah. It's the number one thing to prevent ricketts.

To prevent heart attack or cancer, yeah, the data is not very good on that. So to prevent bone loss, yeah, it's great. But then, you know, to prevent Mignyre's disease, worthless. So that's the question. So when you say I'm taking it prophylactically, what are you trying to prevent? If you want to prevent heart attack and stroke and a patient with high triglycerides, then yeah, absolutely. Definitely worth taking. Okay?

It is a prescription medication. Is it expensive? Do you know? Yeah. Yes. Is it really? Yes. So that's the question would.

Insurance pay for it, yeah. Well, I have insurance pays for it. It's great if you've got insurance. It's just icosopentanoa. acid to EPA, you can get it from, you know, natural sources as well. And, you know, taking Vesepa is not fish oil. It is this sort of modified version of EPA. It's icosopental ethyl, you know, whatever. But, you know, anyway, let's see. Let's see how much it costs. Okay. 30 capsules can

cost between $91 and $99 without insurance. Okay, it's not as expensive as I thought. Generic versions cost $21 to $44. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the other way is just to take the stress off your liver so it won't produce so many triglycerides. Yeah.

Lay off some sugar and. Yeah. Sometimes people just are genetically programmed. Sure. And I take krill oil. I'm hoping to do. kind of the same thing. Yeah, I take it.

So fish oil does actually do something. I recommend that. Well, I was going to say, I personally take it because I don't think it hurts anything. And I think if it does help, I'll gladly take those. Yeah, the data on fish oil wasn't as good as we all hoped it would be. But it's not bad. There's hope. It probably doesn't harm anything.

Exactly. So you're saying there's a chance. Sand of the chair. Right. So I'm with it. All right. I'll give it a shot. I'm down with it.

Well, I'm not recommending that anybody take anything. You know? I'm taking it. Well, you go right ahead. You do whatever you want to do. All right. Here, let's... The best coast just got better.

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Regal selected an eggshell finish and directions to the post office. Benjamin Moore paint is only sold at locally owned stores. Benjamin Moore, see the love. Uh-oh. Oh, now here, see. Hey, Dr. Steve, it's Mike from New York. Hey, Mike. I've been listening to you since the old Obi-Anthony Day,

and you've often talked about leg cramps, which I have. And Aquinine used to be used, but it's illegal in America now. I was looking for some medicine for my wife, and I stumbled across. Well, when you say it's illegal, it's not legal for me to prescribe it anymore. So, there we go. To prescribe what, Equinine. Oh, gosh, gotcha, got it. This company, Bio Crowder, it's a German company, but they sell,

quinine pills. I bought some through Amazon, and they have helped tremendously. When I don't drink tonic water before I go to bed and I take quinine pills instead, it helps. My lead cramps are almost totally gone. So it's a big help. I'm not sure if they changed the law or somehow Amazon is just pushing this stuff out and not worrying about it. Yeah. So Quineine was kind of banned in the United States in 2007 for a couple of reasons. One there was a study that showed it wasn't

effective in treating nocturnal leg cramps. Oh, that one was bullshit. But they were concerned that it had a narrow therapeutic window, meaning that the difference between a dose that would help you in a toxic dose is small. So you've got to get exactly the right

dose. And if you take too much, you can get seizures and coma and death. That would be a lot, you know, taking a lot. But the FDA concluded the risk of quinine outweighed its benefits, and they banned its use in the United States, still used in other countries for the treatment of malaria. But, you know, in lower doses, it can cause low platelet counts, destruction of red blood cells, and allergic reactions. So, but you can still get it in tonic water. And the amount in tonic water is never, doesn't seem to be toxic.

You'd have to drink gallons of the stuff. So that's why I recommend people take tonic water. Where these pills are coming from, I think you can actually buy it on Amazon. I don't know how that's possible. So, you know, I think, yeah, here's the U.S. Okay, so here's FDA. Serious risks associated with using quinine to prevent or treat. nocturnal leg cramps, you know, low platelet count, again, fatalities, renal insufficiency have been

reported. These are the prescription, 2001, 51,000 patients received a dispensed prescription for quinine from U.S. outpatient retail pharmacies, and in 2008 it was 206,000. So we used to prescribe it. Anything in excess is bad, so why can't they just let us work it out? Well, that's what they're saying is that the therapeutic window is so narrow. But, you know, it says the majority of quinine use is associated with off-level off-label indications relating to lead cramps and muscle pain.

And so therefore, now it does say that quinine is FDA approved for the treatment of uncomplicated Plasmodium, Phyllsipyram, malaria, but it's not considered safe and effective for treatment. So it's still out there. You just can't write it for that indication. So what else can you do for light cramps then? Is there anything else? Well, sure. I mean, there's all kinds of things that you can do.

Data support efficacy of a drug called verapamil, but, you know, quinine, tonic. Tonic water is going to be less toxic than verapamil. Verapamil is a calcium channel blocker that's used for blood pressure and slowing down heart, you know, tacicardia, certain tachycardias, gabapentin, and then they recommend Carissa Pradol. Go f yourself. Carissa Pradol is also known as soma. It's an extremely extremely, extremely. addictive tranquilizer.

Yeah, we'll take that. Yeah, and then Orphenadrine, which I don't know much about. And then vitamin E in the dialysis population. So it says one or more of these agents should be tried before resorting to the time-limited trial of quinine for the treatment prevention of leg cramps. Now, this was from... Spoken like a true pharmaceutical company. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cover your ass, I guess. Well, this was from... Take our pill first. consultations in pharmacology or no the consultant pharmacist journal of the american society of consultant pharmacist so um yeah not not a fan of this answer no um i really just don't see the harm in tonic water four ounces of tonic water before you go to bed and most people who do it and we have a phone call about that let's let's just get this in you right now Hi, Dr. Steve.

I called in a while back about nighttime leg tramps. I just wanted to thank you for the tonic water suggestion. I've been drinking it every night before bed for almost five weeks now, and I've not had any leg trance. Thanks again. I've been listening since the first show, and it's not only entertaining but helpful. Hey, thanks, man.

Well, here's, now this is an old, I think this is from the Journal of Cheriatic. internal medicine that's given the side effect profile of quinine. Now, this is when they were prescribing pills, non-pharmacologic therapy. In other words, regular passive stretching of the affected muscle is the best first-line treatment. Well, that's just a treatment when it happens, and it sucks. You have to get out of bed and walk around. We're trying to prevent the fucking things, not just wait until they happen. It says for persons who find this ineffective or whose quality of life is significant,

affected, a trial of quinine is warranted. So there you go. So how close is that to restless leg? Is that completely different as far as the quinine? Yeah, quinine is not effective for a restless leg. So we use other medications for that. And that is a thing where people say they feel like their legs are full or they feel like they're just compelled to move them. And they have to move them.

And then you can get this repetitive leg motion disorder, which apparently I have when you're sleeping. And that will affect your ability to attain deep sleep. You can start kicking? I don't know that I do. They just, they said it was mild when I did my last sleep study. So I don't have any discomfort from it. But I don't attain deep sleep. I get about 30 minutes of deep sleep and all the rest is light sleep.

So I'm at a high risk for dementia just from that. Gosh. So I tried taking gamma hydroxybutyric acid. It's sold as sodium oxibate. It's also known as, you know, roofies, I guess. It's not rohypnot, though, but it's a, you know, it's a date rape drug. And so it's highly regulated. And I tried that, and it didn't work.

I would wake up at 4 in the morning wide awake. And then you have to take it again. so you're supposed to take it you're supposed to wake up in the middle of the night and take the second dose it's like this is stupid yeah this is stupid wake up and take your sleeping medicine knock you back out again yeah and it didn't increase my deep sleep either so i found it i found a i found a drink that might make you good night night for a little while really with a special with a special with a special with a special cannabinoid in it oh really oh man well that's supposed to help too Shit, yeah. Yeah.

The pot or the canniboy. Well, they're even saying now that chronic cannabinoid use, even in gummies, has got some adverse effects. Well, hell, everything's got to everything's bad. Try getting married once or twice. You're better off taking your gummies. Come all. Yeah. Oh, man.

Oh, well. Yeah, here's cannabis. Okay, this is from Colorado cannabis, though. It says heavy use of cannabis. Cannabis can damage your memory. Damage can last a week or more. Heavy use of cannabis may lead the development of psychotic disorders such as schizophrenia. Let's see.

And joy? Overjoy syndrome. Too much happiness. Not being pissed. This is all about smoking, though. There was a thing about gummies that just came out. too long ago. Well, I wasn't prepared for this, but let's

look it up for next show. Okay. All right. Okay. Okay. All right. Here's one for you, Dr. Scott. Steve, I started having a good pain in my hip about six months ago. I went to an orthopedist who had done good things for my knees. They did an x-ray, didn't show anything. So I happen to have

appointments with a chiropractor and a massage therapist. No health there. Asked my GP and talk about an MRI. said my insurance would probably make me go to a PT, but since exercise makes it worse, I said, let's try without it. While I was waiting to find out whether the insurance company was going to say yes or not, I had to go for another x-ray because for some reason the person wasn't good enough.

PT people call me up about the thing that I didn't want. Insurance company came through, got the MRI, MRI didn't show anything. So I went back, and now the GP is now saying I should go to another orthopedist, even though the first, you know, my orthopedist didn't find one. So I've got a question. The GP is going to kickback for referrals, and what kind of doctor should I now actually try to go to since the first one, you know, didn't do it. Yeah. Okay. No, they don't get kickbacks.

That's highly illegal. And there have been health systems that have gotten dinged for almost a billion dollars by allowing kickbacks in the past. Or self-referring, referring preferentially to entities that they own. And you can look up Hospital Corporation of America, fine. They had the highest fine of any health system in the country way back in the day. and it was like $800 million, way back then, almost a billion dollars. And if I recall correctly for self-referral. So I'm not an attorney, so just look that up on your own.

So everybody learned their lesson. Nobody's pulling that shit. You know, I can't say, hey, I'm going to send all my patients to Dr. Scott as long as he gives me, you know, 50 bucks for every patient. It doesn't work that way. So that's not an issue, but I'm thinking physical medicine rehab for this person. You know, they've done all these tests. They couldn't find anything, but he's still having pain.

It sounds like, well, I'm not going to no nurse in home. Physical medicine rehab is the name of their subspecialty. They deal with people who have pain from trauma and other things, and then also people that have pain, they can't figure out where it's coming from. And that might be the way to go. rather than going to another orthopedias, because orthopedists are surgeons. Right. So if they can't do surgery, they're just sending you to physical therapy. Right. It's a perpetual loop.

Right. The PM&R person may be able to do some invasive treatment that might actually improve the pain. They may do a nerve block. You know, who knows? I would, you know, this is the kind of stuff I see. Yeah. And then that was the other thing I was going to say is go to somebody like Dr. Scott. Yeah, that knows what they're doing. But, you know, the other one would be a sports medicine. Yeah, you know, in a doc because of, you know, in a physical therapy. Well, but, but here's, here's my, here's my point. Sports medicine may do a little deeper dive into the mechanics of what's wrong in diagnostics

versus doing an injection or, you know, some, or just simply sending them back to PT, which is, you know, we're just finding a great physical therapist that'll do those because, you know, hip pain can be really challenging. Well, we'll talk about it next time. Yeah, no, no, that's okay. I was just going to say it, you know, and it's about where the hip is hurting. If it's towards the front of the hip, like in the groin, then we do think arthritic hips.

We do think maybe a laboral tears. If it's on the side, they poke on it and it hurts on the side. We'll tell people what the laborer is. Well, the labor is just a little, it's a soft capsule that the bone of the femur, the hemoral head slips up and do it inside the capsule. Yeah, it's like a suction cup kind. It's like a suction cup.

Yeah. It's soft and it can tear. And it can be really hard to see image-wise as it can. And that can lead to instability inside its joints. But here's what I see most times then we'll get out of here. Most times it's a dysfunction and the sacrileot joints. You get stiff in your lower back, all the fast, it locks down to your gluteal muscles and your hip muscles. Ass muscles.

Your ass muscles. I have to work really, really hard to move. It's like having a flat tire and still driving. And again, the PM&R guy could end up. inject that. Well, or you can start doing some stretches and some yoga well, true, true, true. But you could see an acupuncturist in the meantime too. Just make sure they have D-O-M after their name. It's not somebody just did a weekend class in acupuncture. You don't want somebody that's a dabbler in

acupuncture. You want someone that's committed there. No weekend horses. Right, all all right. Well listen, thanks go to Dr. Scott. Thanks Lady Diagnosis and Lady Diagnosis and Lady diagnosis always with the excellent lay person questions when we start throwing jargon out there. Thanks to everyone who's made this show happen over the years. And many thanks to our listeners whose voicemail and topic ideas make this job very easy. Next couple of shows, we're going to have some big changes. Finally, we're going to be taking live calls again, and we will have this super tip system. I'm very excited about it.

You're going to enjoy the voices that I've chosen. think um and go to our website at dr steve.com for schedules podcasts and other crap until next time check your stupid nuts for lumps quit smoking get off your asses get some exercise we'll see you in one week for the next additional weird medicine thanks everybody Thank you.