Well There‘s Your Problem - Episode 112: Cavalese Cable Car Disaster

Episode Date: September 3, 2022

cable car fall down go boom note to FBI: the H-bomb joke is still a joke (see previous episode) Our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/wtyppod/ Our Merch: https://www.solidaritysuperstore.com/wtypp Slides: https://youtu.be/E9Gt4BFcM2o Send us stuff! our address: Well There's Your Podcasting Company PO Box 40178 Philadelphia, PA 19106 DO NOT SEND US LETTER BOMBS thanks in advance in the commercial: Local Forecast - Elevator Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/

Hello, it's Justin in post-production. We had a number of audio issues in this episode, including losing a good chunk of it towards the beginning. The worst of it should be all for by about two minutes in, but you may hear like a big jump in audio quality at some point. I apologize for this, but I didn't want to re-record the whole thing. All right, on to the episode. Well, I think we have a podcast going now. I believe. When did this happen? About two years ago. Oh, yeah, okay. Yeah, those two years have been kind of a blur for me. Yeah, well, I think they've been a blur for everyone. You know, there was this whole like, there's been a bug going around, I heard, and it really screwed

stuff up. Yeah, and just in the midst that we went in one side of that and we came out the other with a podcast. Yes. Hello, and welcome to Well, There's Your Problem. It's a podcast about engineering disasters. It has slides. I'm Justin Rosnick. I'm the person who's talking right now. My pronouns are he and him. Okay, go. I am Alice Goldwell Kelly. I'm the person who's talking now. My pronouns are she and her. I nailed it this time. Fuck you. Yay, Liam. Oh, yeah, Liam. Yeah, Liam. With Liam. No, we've lost him. He's just dropped off the Zencaster completely. We've lost. We've lost Liam. We're a man down already. Yeah, I was about to say this. This new

Zencaster is definitely not going well for anyone. I'm kidding. Yeah, so we got Liam offline. Let me. Maybe his house was struck by a meteor. I don't know. Maybe. That's a possibility. I mean, he did mention that. I'm going to fucking kill myself. Okay, okay, he's back. You dropped off just in time for me to say yay, Liam, and we can cut back to you coming into threatened suicide. Hi, hi, I'm Liam Anderson. I'm very unhappy by pronouns are he and him. Stop fucking telling me I pronounce some shit wrong. I don't fucking care. I don't like you. Shut the fuck up. All kinds of exotic ways. This podcast needs so much better if Liam weren't on it. I can't fucking hear you. I can't fucking hear you. I got people in the comments last time who

accused me of like justifying the attempted murder of Salman Rushdie. So that's fine. Apparently I'm in because I said don't violate the espionage act. That's very rich coming from an anarchist. I'm not sure what that criticism supposed to mean. Listen, listen, like it's like Bacoon and said it's like Bacoon and said in matters of espionage refer to the espionage maker, right? I just want to say that I did in fact build the H bomb in my basement. I have donated it to my local DSA chapter. Talking about sports and threatening the audience. Is he useful for anything else? Are we sure he's not some concern? Those are like three of the funnest things you do.

Yeah, hang on. I'm going to remove this comment and I'm going to Robert Williams, you specifically can blow me backwards. I believe this is good practice for all leftists to build H bombs in your basement and donate them to your local DSA chapter. I believe so. Build working class power. If the break like clinic Tuesdays Wednesdays, you have, you know, nuclear tests. Yeah, exactly. All right. Christ. Well, what we see here is a cable. It's a cable.

Why is it on the ground? That's a good question. It's not supposed to be on the ground. No, what we're going to do is we're going to tell you a story about the United States Marine Corps and their poor cable management. Yes. Well, same. You got to like, I know it's hard work, but you do have to like get them all together and label them and zip tie them together. The little cable comes here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't believe Marines are smart enough to manage a cable. Ross, if you're a Marine, every cable is a tasty stack. Yeah, a bunch of like sort of like, yeah, you guys thought this was going to be

the defending the Marine Corps, but I will never do that. I actually invented different colored cables in order to satisfy the Marine desires to like gnaw on them. Yeah, it's weird because the box of Marine cables includes a sharpener at the back. Just a very waxy cable. The Navy's constantly, you know, replacing cables that Marines have not. Would you stop eating these? It's fine because if you put a little vest on a Marine and you train them enough, you can actually get them to like lay cables inside difficult spaces.

So like people don't know this, but a lot of the wiring inside a large airline, there's a Marine has to go in there in the crawl space. Yeah, you have confined space training, but they're more disposable. Recruiting Marines with the tiniest, with the tiniest most nimble hands. Yes. What do you think they started doing the like sort of anime posters? They're trying to get Fen Boy Marines. That's why I don't like the phrase Fen Boy Marines. Well, it's it's it's happening. That's it's it's it's it's a bad news.

The guards are Fen Boy Marines. Yes. This is all I've ever wanted. All right. But before we talk more about Fen Boy Marines, what do you have to do? The goddamn news. These motherfuckers. No mercy. On the WTYP enemies list. There was an article in New York Times recently that I wanted to talk about. I know we don't usually do like reading series is on this back.

Oh, it's like I'm gonna shut my door. You keep talking. What are they? Are they are their pro lantern fly elements on the other side of your door? We've got like a quip and train sort of moderate lantern flies. I'm the New York Times wrote an article that was like these are the people who defend lantern flies. And I I just you know, anyone who reads this article should should be like, why would you write an article about these people? Because they're not both sizing this insane shit.

Why are we both sizing lantern flies? So I'm confused. Do you want to explain what a lantern fly is and why they're on the enemies list of the podcast? The spotted lantern fly is an insect from China. China. China, right? He was the funniest president, the worst, but also the funniest. Not the worst. That's true. I guess James Buchanan was pretty retro.

The thing about Trump that we can say is that he did never own slaves that we know of. That we know of. Yeah, is that we know of? Well, plus one against Hillary Clinton, I guess. Fuck, that's really good. But yes, I'm sorry. I didn't know why I was fucking eating. Stick to sports.

OK. So these guys, they're an invasive species on the Eastern Seaboard, right? Gave to Pennsylvania in 2019, I want to say. Like early 2019, there was a standing. The government gave us a standing order to murder these insects on site. Yeah, it's like Florida and iguanas, which we've talked about before. I'm pretty. We've talked about this before, either like on the show or in the preamble to the Florida just

let you like kill an iguana with a machete. Because yeah, so much the same. You're just supposed to like kill these guys, right? Like stink bugs as well. Instantly. Yeah, you're supposed to. You know, when you see him, you're supposed to kill him. I will say, I think a lot of people have kind of stopped doing it, at least here in Eastern Pennsylvania, because they had so much of a foothold now, it doesn't matter.

But like I kill him every chance I get, dude. They are like they're also hideous. Let's be 100 percent honest here. It is helpful when the animal that the government is telling you that for ecological reasons, you need to kill many of looks like this. I think they're kind of pretty. God damn it, dude. But the first couple, the first like year or so, you know, everyone was squishing them.

Like fucking it's like the Pokemon evolution of a ladybug. What are you talking about? No, but now we're we're at the point where we're here. We're three years later and the New York Times decides the writing article, like here are the people who are sympathetic to the lantern flies. And it's like, I'll squish them. It's a fuck defeatists, fifth columnists trying to weaken America against this is true. This is true.

The one woman went to temple and I'm just like, listen, I thought Bill Cosby was the most embarrassing thing to come out of temple. But I don't know. Didn't didn't one of these fuckers like nearly cost us a whole episode of the show at one point. One of these guys flew into my air condition. Oh, the air conditioner. Yeah. And it died and it blocked the drain and I didn't realize for a while.

And my air conditioner filled up with enough water that it started blowing black mold into my apartment for like four months. And I developed a horrible cough. And I thought I had covid turned out it was the air conditioner with the dead lanterns lying in it. Oh, these guys are bastards. They're horrible. Yo, it's weird.

You're like generally a risk averse, dude, I would say. Yeah. And sometimes you tell me things and do shit that I'm just like, and how is he still alive? God's just like, oh, that's Ross. Don't worry about him. He's going to be fine. If if if something bad happened to me, I wouldn't be around to tell you. No, I would be around to have to do it.

It's quite it's quite literally survivor bias. Right? Yeah. Like you're fine because you're able to tell us about it. God damn, though, these things have no sympathy for them. You should not have any sympathy for them. Massacre them. No, they try they tried to kill my friend.

Kill him. Not the friend. We cannot emphasize enough. Do not kill Ross, please. No, please do not. If you do, you will become an enemy of the podcast. And if you're an enemy of the podcast, that means that we use our platform to call for your murder. Yes.

We can do that. We'll issue like someone against you. Yeah. God damn. I don't know how people got that out of what I said or what I think I said, but I don't know. I just experienced a brief like fugue state where I was like, yeah, it should be killed like a spotted lantern fly. The blast for me.

Alice, you're good at making people go completely psycho. I yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know not not always to me, but I recognize that to an outside observer, the effect that I have on people is very funny. It is very funny. I Alice, I use you as a barometer to know if a person is sane or not.

I'm sort of the podcast's ablative heat shoot. Yes. So I entered it correctly. You dumb whores. Sorry. Yeah. Kill these things. Next slide.

Kill the lantern flies. Yes. No mercy. So a couple of days ago, in fact, just the one day ago, one of the car shuttle trains that goes through the channel tunnel had mysterious alarms. And because of those mysterious alarms, they had to shut down the train. Right. And then because they had to shut down the train, they just piled everybody off the train

into walk pretty much into the service tunnel much much like the joke about how SOPs, the kind of the extended operations thing for planes secretly means engines, turn or passengers swim similar sort of safety application here. You have to get in the tunnel. And then everybody had to get in this the service tunnel between the two tunnels that comprise the channel tunnel wait there until they could send a cargo train through the other one to come pick them up. And they had to like sit on the floor in the car decks and go back to go back to England,

which means like like like an actual like freight train came through and they're like, all right, get on a flat car. I think it's next to this. Yeah, get in this container. It was enclosed, but it was like an empty car that used for like transporting vehicles. No, no, no, no, no. So as a Jewish man, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. The FEMA shackle car thing became real.

It became real for a second. But so everybody had to like stay in this this time of like five hours, then they got sent back to England. The train eventually got out going the way it was going, which means this was a very long con to separate people from their cars. All of that like access. Yeah, your car is in France and you aren't. We just have to do this like several hundred thousand times more.

And I think we can solve climate. How why don't they just have a passenger car and a little locomotive that could like show up and pick up all the guys? This is like not a difficult thing. I don't know why you have to send a goddamn freight train in there. I don't know. The thing we had was freight train. All right, I should have used it as the the image for this.

But yeah, there's just a picture of people like sitting on the floor in one of these one of these cars. So I mean lights. Hey, nobody died. The worst you got was like as I've said in the car on there, you got a free tool and like OK, it lasted five hours and you were under the sea and maybe you had a panic attack. It would be pretty cool to go in a service tunnel. Yeah, that would be interesting at least.

It would be interesting once. One time. It'd be cool to go in the channel tunnel. I've never done it. Yeah, it's cool. I think the only real thing that went wrong here aside from waiting five hours to go right on the floor of a cargo car is they didn't use the fucking little fire trucks that we've seen. All of those.

We didn't use them. That would be funny. Sucks. Terrible. That's it. That's the thing works. It's fine. No, stop complaining.

This tunnel is like what, 23 miles long? I think so. And like it failed. Why did it take them five hours to set a train in there? Because it involved respectively the two most organized countries in the world. England and France. I think it happened like a third of the way in from the English side. So.

We don't really know anything yet, too. It's kind of too soon to tell. I think a guy named with like a little speeder or something just picked up four people at a time and got it done faster. Yeah. I mean, but at least they didn't tell them, you know, England is this way. Walk out. It's, you know, go walk like five, six miles or whatever.

Like five hours. I would have started. Yeah. You can't keep me in here. I'm just going to do. I'm just going to do like a five K down the inside of the channel tunnel. It's going to be cool as shit. I'm going to get like a little sort of achievement for this finish or ribbon.

Yeah. Yes. Oh, it's uphill the whole way. That's the thing about time is the kind of uphill both ways. Unvarchant. Yeah. We have a third news item today. Yeah.

I put another one in. We got here. Oh, yeah. Oh, I love this thing. I have been looping video of this fucking thing. Just the noise it makes. They've they've reopened the giant slide on Bel Isle in Detroit. And well, they they did something to mess with it because people go too fast now

and they've all been bouncing off the metal and they've been it split out breaking balls. You have CTE. Yeah. Yeah. It looks like a machine you built. Like you remember the the euthanasia roller coaster? This is this is like that. But for like giving you like fracturing your coccyx.

Yeah. This is this is sort of what what's what's euthanasia but for battery. We're talking like some kind of medically assisted battery. Yeah, exactly. You see people just fly down this thing and just yeah. No, it's it's something you would do to crash test dummies. Yeah. The weird thing is and it's messier when it's in the middle of summer and like it's

got to be fucking hot. There's a thing at the bottom that looks like it's just going to shave off the entire top layer of skin off you. And people are coming down here just like it sounds like throwing a brick in a washing machine. It's incredible. The best of my knowledge. This is in an identical configuration to what it was before covid, which is the last

time it was open. They just forgot how to operate it properly, which is it's supposed to be waxed. I don't know if that increases friction. Didn't you all lube up the fucking well not lube. I guess you didn't opposite a lube. Yeah, what's the opposite of lube? Wax paper. Yeah, we wax up the slide enough and now it's it's too lubed.

Wax on, wax off. I mean, to be fair, though, how the fuck like imagining do you just like go down it and a thing covered in wax and hope that waxes it like what? No, you well, OK, when you go down it, they put you in a burlap sack sort of thing. I see. That's what this is. That way you don't get friction burdens on there. I assume that I don't know how they wax it, though.

I have no idea if you're an operator, if you're an operator of the Bell Isle giant slide. Please contact us. Yeah, if you know how you wax this, please, please tell me because I'm very interested. A Detroit rapper made a great song about it. I forget what his name is. Um, but I included the lyrics here in in the Iran. Just like jumping off the road on a giant slide. You might even jump off like a giant slide.

Very like granulated ropes like falling off a cathedral. You can like suffer an injury in a way that previously only like a medieval master Mason would have. Yeah, it's very confusing. I think generally like the the contours of the slide down, up, down, up, down, up. I mean, it's supposed to be restricting speed, but if you don't wax it, you know, it just becomes incredibly unsafe.

It would make it more sense to just do it as one big drop there. And yeah, it's just like a series of like jumps that just fuck with your spine. Yeah, it's I don't I don't like the I think there's extreme chiropractic if you will. Fundamental design issues with the slide, which are being mitigated through wax. Yeah, you should have a slide that works without wax. I think it's the that's what I would do. That's a lesson here.

It stinks of it stinks of goon design. It reminds me of nothing so much as the zipline that kills your child. Yes, something awful zipline or or I don't know what else. Yeah, basically just that for only five hundred dollars. We will throw your child down a mountain killing. Mostly as far as we are leaving your children to die on all sides. It's like one of those one of those baby drop boxes at the fire station. Yeah, the baby drop boxes now come with a slide for like enhanced entertainment.

This is what we're doing instead of we banned abortion, but we you can now throw your baby off the ground. Oh, my God. The music from the Lion King is playing. I mean, this thing is basically an abortion provider in itself. If you go down this way, you're pregnant. Yeah, it's over. Yeah, this is like now the only legal sort of like abortion service in like 30 states.

This is true. This is true. You're going to find your local giant slide. Abortion funds in the description, folks. Giant slide funds. It lists several manufacturers in the description. Convince your local authority to install one today. Do it great.

Yes, doing great. What do you mean it's in? Maybe we'll start the actual podcast. Probably not, though. Maybe. Well, that was the goddamn news. Okay. Oh, boy.

A full transport perfected by something awful.com. Yes. So what we what we first have to do here is ask what's a cable car, right? You put some buckets on a string. You run down the string really fast. Yes. I use some of these in workers and resources because I can't think of a smarter way to get guys up to a mine.

It's just really irritating to get the guys up to the mine unless, you know, they really need to improve like the tunnel thing in order to make that. I mean, I've just been playing a whole lot of it because I got good at it recently, and that was a terrible decision. Oh, foolish. You need to do like a sort of a Soviet Franklin series. Yeah, I think it I think it'd be less effective for like storytelling, I think, is the thing.

There's too much game mechanics. Franklin. Yeah. Yes. Franklin Grant. Yeah. So anyway, okay, here's here's a disclaimer before I start going, right? Which is I'm unfamiliar with a lot of aspects of cable car operation, right?

If you're a cable car fan, please feel free to write to me in the comments. There's a guy right now listening to this wearing a big hat that says like number one cable car fan. The hat looks like the thing that suspends the cable car from the cables. Yeah, and that's like his moment. Crying all ten knuckles. Yeah. So cable cars sort of evolved from ropeways, right? And the first ropeway was that we know of was built in the 1600s by a Croatian guy,

but he built it in Gdansk, right? And that was for moving spoil from a wall construction site, right? It was powered by horses and used actual ropes, right? It wasn't really replicated. Now ropeways come back in the 1800s with the advent of steam power and easily made steel cable. Yeah. I mean, this was how you did a subway, right? It's just the same principle, but you put it on an angle, right?

You didn't have too many cable hold passenger railways at this point. Oh, okay. That was that cable hold, I mean cable hold subways. As far as I know, Glasgow had the only one. You see, this is why I think of this, yeah. So there's advantages to ropeways, right? So like, let's say you had a mine. It was at high elevation.

You wanted to transport. So you're playing Soviet workers and resources Soviet Republic. Your two options are you could build like a trestle bridge that goes at like a 60 degree angle and give someone the idea of like putting a driving a bunch of trucks up and down it, or you can build one of these. So if you had a mine that was at a higher elevation, right, then where you want to transport the ore to, you could build a ropeway and you could put the ore in buckets. And then the ore in the buckets would provide enough weight to bring the empty buckets back up,

right? I see one potential safety hazard here. You see our ropeway on the left with the buckets full of ore. Yes. And you know how those buckets are meant to like deposit that ore by just like swinging 180 degrees vertically and just dumping it all out. And you see how the ropeway goes over a road? Don't worry about it.

Okay. It's fine. Fine, it's fine, shut up. So ropeways were very good at transporting like material and spoil from mines at high elevations down to the ground, right? True. But it took a while for passenger transportation to be considered, because then, of course, you need a steam engine, right?

Yeah, or a shitload of horses. Two of the horses. So some of them were partially used for transporting people for a while. The first passenger only one was installed in Hong Kong in 1893. That was also for a mine, but the ropeway was only for passengers that went to the mine. They did the workers and resources thing. Yes, exactly. They said it to only pick up workers.

Workers and resources 1893 Hong Kong. Fuck, that would be cool. Anyway, yeah. So there were some changing habits as a result of better transportation, and certain classes had more free time, right? Yeah, the leisure class, all of their shit. Yeah, the leisure class, you know, your early 1900s Instagram influencers, right? They can sometimes take a vacation, maybe they can even go skiing,

which we'll talk about a little bit more later. Oh yeah, your Victorians love to die up an Alp. Yes. Could not get enough of it. Now, your ropeway, generally, it's a single wire in many small cabins, maybe an extra wire for electricity or maybe not, right? But they evolve into aerial tramways, right? You have fewer and larger cabins, you have more ropes,

which are for support, propulsion, safety, so on and so forth. One of the first. These, as I understand, are largely invented for action movie guys to fight on the top of. Yes. I would not want to do that. One of the first, like, modern ones is called the Vetterhorn Elevator. That's in 1908. It's in Switzerland, I want to say.

Of course it would be. Yeah, it operated from 1908 to 1915. It was closed because of World War I. But these things generally got bigger and bigger. You can you can see here. This is the. Shin Hotica ropeway. Sure.

Okay. It's in Japan, right? And it's a double jacket. Yeah, Japan, Pennsylvania, maybe. Japan, Pennsylvania. Yes. Yeah, this is in Galitson. That's like an obelisk, actually.

It goes from Galitson to Altoona. And then you have on the top right here, you have the Emirates airline because like any kind of tourist gadget thing has to be heavily sponsored. The least efficient way of getting across the Thames you can get from. Genuinely terrible. Yeah, you can get from basically nowhere to also basically nowhere because Dockland's regeneration has been very successful to some extent. However, in the sort of way of like here is office zone.

Here is you go for a concert here zone. And then that's it. And you know, it doesn't really have a lot of like, yeah, it's a stupid transport link. There's no reason for it to exist other than like big projects. It's also these things are very, very low capacity, which we'll talk about in the next slide. These feel these feel like gadget bonds. Am I wrong? Yeah, yeah, you would otherwise have built a gadget bomb, but instead you built a gadget cable.

Yeah, you would otherwise build. Oh, look at all these hats. The Dockland's light railway. Yeah. Yeah. These are some hats. This is an early one. I don't recall which one it is.

I like how it looks like from from our perspective. There's some sort of naval gun ready to take them out. It actually used like cable cars full of tourists as naval gunnery training. Yes. Well, we'll get to that. Oh, yeah, basically. Jesus. That's right.

Prior to the cable car, the way you got up the mountain, if you wanted to bring a whole bunch of people up the mountain, you used a rack, a rack railway, right? Is this the same thing as a funicular? Show me your rack. So a funicular has two cars which are counterbalanced on a cable that go up and down an incline. Here in America, we call it an inclined plane because we don't we don't know how to say words with that many syllables, right?

A rack railway, which is another option, I guess actually the funicular or the inclined plane did predate the rack railway and they were much more common because in the early days of railways, you built them like they were canal, right? Which is flat, flat, flat, flat, flat, inclined plane, flat, flat, flat, flat, inclined plane, right? Rather than trying to build a locomotive that can go up hills. Yeah, this is the area where we change elevation. Yes, exactly.

And then you haul up all the passenger cars on the inclined plane. Sometimes it's steep enough for the passengers to have to walk up. Yeah, thanks for nothing, Ross. Yeah, exactly. So, but in the 1860s, we come up with this idea of the rack railway, right? This is the Mount Washington rack railway, still in operation. This was the, I don't think the first one, but like the first commercially successful one, built in like 1868, it goes up to the top of Mount Washington.

Yeah, and there's a bunch of, there's, it's a regular railroad, but it has a cogwheel in the middle that engages with. Yeah, it's still there. Yeah, wreck. Probably have it and let's slip the cogs of war. Yeah, very funny. Thank you. Oh, so it can't slip down because it's like geared into the thing.

It's geared, right? Yes, cool. Yeah, because of the gears. It can't slip down. There's a lot more traction. Still widely used. And other advantages, you know, you can have a railway, which is partially a rack railway and partially not.

So you can use conventional adhesion for a lot of it. And that's much more efficient in the flat sections than when you got to go up the hill. I turn the rack on. All right. Smart. I like this. I've never been on one of these. I've been on a couple of funiculars, but never on one of these.

Come to Mount Washington. Yeah. Right. The fastest winds were ever recorded on earth. Live show on the top of Mount Washington. 233 miles an hour on the sun. That'd be kind of fun. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. We all go wingsuits. Oh, 231. It's no longer. No longer holds the record. Oh, bullshit. But it did for 62 years, 231 miles an hour.

I've been on a rack railway. It was part of a narrow gauge system in Switzerland. It was very nice. Got you up the mountain and then you were at the top of the mountain and then you didn't have to walk up the mountain. Yeah, no complains. We did walk up the mountain one time. Yeah.

No. Which was. If there's a mountain, Ross is going to walk up. He's going to bitch the entire time, but you have to like kind of walk behind him to make sure he doesn't run up the mountain and throw up as he's prone to doing. I like walking up mountains. I know you do, but I have followed you a lot of places. I've walked up one hill that wasn't even a mountain and I didn't like it.

So never again. You think I'd be more fit than I am? Because I went to a psychotic school, as you may know. And one of the things that they had us do was go on a field trip where at some points, we literally walked up Penny Fan, which is a Welsh not quite a mountain, most notably used by British special forces for training. So that gives you a sort of insight into the sort of pedagogical psychology there. And I didn't like it.

I don't like it very much at all. Alice Caldwell-Cadetti, if you will. Very much. Yes. I like a nice mountain. It has a whole lot of amenities on it. So I don't have to like do work. I just want to do the walking.

I don't want to have to like make a tent or take a shit in the woods. I just want to do the walking. I want to get to the top. I want to have a beer. You'd like the beer and have a clean bathroom. The Pitz Gloria, the one in Switzerland that has the revolving restaurant on top. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

The Swiss have it figured out because when you get to the top of the mountain, there's always a mountain hut there that has like a restaurant and like a bathroom. Sort of circular sausages that curves in themselves. I kind of think. Exactly. And then you can get a pair of sticks. You can walk down with them and you look like you're a serious hiker. You can take him with this one weird trick.

It's just Ross running by with his sticks. So your problem with your rack railway, you know, it's pretty good, but it requires right of way, locomotives, maintenance depots, crews, bridges, tunnels, all those expensive things. In fact, I have a useful drop from the most recent film we did from Kil James Bond for this, which is simply to say that. Building a railway is a hard, miserable job. It's true.

Your aerial tramway offers some obvious advantages, which is that it's largely terrain agnostic. If you build the towers, you string the cables between the towers, you're good. Yeah. You've got to fuck with the placement a little bit so they turn green. The cables turn green. Then you've got to build a road up to them. It's irritating. It's really annoying because the cables are really thin, so you can almost tell when they're red and

when they're green. And they sag a lot too, you know. Anyway, so the aerial tramway construction was greatly accelerated by the development of the helicopter, which made construction of towers in remote and inaccessible places easier than ever. Just drop the bitch in. Yeah. Yeah, that kind of like a helicopter-supported construction is always insane to me.

You see a lot of it with electrical infrastructure too. Power power lines, yeah. You got the power lines that are supported by the guy wires and they meet at the single point. As discussed in a previous safety third. So your result is, of course, you know, we build all, especially in the 20th century, you build a lot of these aerial tramways, right? More and more stupid places can be accessed by more and more dumb people, right? That's genuinely, I think, that's my sort of Rosniak's rule of modern geography to me there

is we made dumb places more accessible to dumb people. Yes. And now your fucking dentist can go up Everest, like hold up there by like three Sherpas. I would like to do an Everest episode. Yes, yes, yes, please, yes. So, all right, but I will say, if you put a cable car to the top of Everest, it would avoid a good chunk of the problems. Yeah, that's cool.

We have to build, I guess, the highest man-made thing ever for the station at the top. And then we're good. You may have to defile a sacred mountain, but, you know, it will say, why does that ever stop any engineer doing that in any country in history? All right. So your structure here, this is the, what was the name of the thing? That's, that's very steep, that top left one. The Vetterhorn elevator, this was the first one.

And that's very... Yeah, I would be a little nervous. One of the steepest ever built. I don't like that at all, dude. I'll just, I'll just jump. I'll just get a wingsuit and jump. Hey, guess how many accidents they had? It's Switzerland, so none.

00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:58,080 00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:58,080 00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:58,080 00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:58,080 00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:58,080 00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:58,080 00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:58,080

00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:58,080 00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:58,080 00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:58,080 00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:58,080 00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:58,080 00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:58,080 00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:58,080 00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:58,080

00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:58,080 00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:58,080 00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:58,080 00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:58,080 00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:58,080 00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:58,080 00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:58,080 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:00,240 Yeah, Switzerland.

Yeah, we built this to just work, actually. I don't know why you built things to not work. I would, it seems like more, more difficult to do this. I don't know why you don't give us the goal to stop. So, you know, you structure these things. Once you get to your, like, your big sort of aerial tramway systems, you have multiple wires, right? And you have the support wires and you have carrier wires, right?

So, your support wire is the one that holds up the car, right? And your carrier wire is the one that pulls it along. And these are, these are all isolated systems. So, they're not very standardized. Sort of the gadget-bound problem again. Yeah, and even I found, and I'm not a cable car head. I don't know what the... I'm not a CC guy, yeah.

I'm not a CC guy, yeah. So, I don't know. Someone may correct me. I found that the terminology also really didn't seem to be standardized either. Like, what's a tramway, a ropeway, a gondola, a cable car, aerial tramway, so on and so forth. You do have problems with the technology that are sort of inherent to it, right? Number one is very low capacity. Yeah, not everywhere can be Japan where you just have the big double-decker cars.

Even that one's not very high capacity. So, anyone who wants to install an urban cable car as part of public transit is scamming you, right? Yes, the mayor of London again. Yes, so... Sadiq Khan, you son of a bitch. I think this was a Boris project. It was a Boris project. Of course it fucking was.

Well, the bikes are nice. So, this is in Medellin, Colombia. Medellin? Geez, Medellin, please. Medellin, Colombia. Excuse me, I don't live in Colombia. It was this bitch in 1997. Yeah, it was in Medellin, Pennsylvania.

Medellin, Pennsylvania. It goes to... It goes to Rockhill, Florida. I don't even want to say this is a bojo thing as much as just your entire city is disease thing. Yeah, yeah, I know. They installed six cable car lines to complement their metro. They run them. You can take them with a metro fare,

you know, because you have all the favelas and stuff like that. It's very steep. It's hard to get conventional public transit up there, which makes sense. But the thing is, it's inherently low capacity technology at rush hour. These things have a 45 minute wait to get on. Yeah. They are not serious public transportation. They're good for low density routes.

They're good for tourists. The Swiss seem to make them work. Yeah, they just build the type of trucks. Well, this is true, yes. But you know, they also build trains where they need the trains to go. And like the cable car goes up to the mountain hut, which is technically incorporated and therefore needs some form of public transportation to go there.

If you have isolated towers there, the maintenance can be difficult. You can see like, here's a kind of tower here. There's lots of different types of towers. You can get quite architectural with these, I've seen. Yeah, sure. The cable car rides on the cable. It goes over the rollers and then onwards. It's kind of funny because the rollers move.

Obviously because, you know, you need space. The hanger that the cable car hangs on is off-center, you know, all this sort of stuff. Personally, I would simply build over the top of that tower, a kind of like T34 sort of monument looking thing. It's just got the wheels already there. Yeah, a big motor at the end that moves either the single cable. If it's a single cable system or the carrier cable, if it's the type of system where you have a carrier cable and you have separate cables that support the thing, right?

When you get on one of these, your abiding fear, or mine was anyway, I will plunge hundreds of feet to my death at any time. Either the cable will snap or the like thing attaching the gondola to the cable will snap and I will plunge hundreds of feet to my death. And this is not a common failure mode for these types of systems, right? Oh, thank God. That's generally something that does not happen. We will talk about that a bit more later.

Your most common failure is like, you know, cars get stuck or and they get stuck in an inaccessible location. That happens in Disney World because Karin is a Disney person. I know all about the Disney Skyliners now and they get stuck all the goddamn time. I don't know if this is I don't know if it's the exact same situation. Obviously, like, Roz, I'm not I'm not a CC guy. Sorry. But I know that they get stuck basically constantly.

Yeah, I am a CC guy. Oh, I live in. I live in the air. So I've attempted Swiss back. OK, so if you get stuck on this, you're just up there. You're terrified that the thing is going to drop off. Pissing and shitting. This whole thing is filling up with piss and shit around your ankles.

I have some pictures able car rescue. I thought it was going to be a piss and shit. So piss and shit. No, no, most of the pictures of this accident we have later are full of blood. Ah, content warning. Look away. Yeah, anyway, let's just imagine it's just imagine it's like Raghu, you know, since we're in Italy, since it's Italian month.

Let's let's talk about our boy. Have a lazy cabalese, have a lazy. Yeah, yeah, it's a it's a commune in the autonomous province of Trento, right? Italy has two autonomous provinces. They're adjacent to each other. The other one is South Pyrrhal. Yeah, this is this is sort of a product of Italy being like we understand that you are basically Austrians.

Yes, exactly. You know, this is your Italians. They have self government. You know, they can do stuff that other provinces can't. They have special self governing powers. They're Austrian, which means, obviously, they're more competent than Italians. Right. Yes, it's now Austrian month.

Yeah. Except where wine is concerned. Now, skiing has a long history. It becomes popular for vacationers really in the 20th century, right? Sure. People need places to ski that require snow and hills. What has snow and hills? A mountain.

But you got to get to the top of it, right? And it's hard to get up there on a foot on foot or in a car. So, of course, the easiest way is to use an aerial tramway. Yeah, use the most bare bones for one. Like a ski lift is literally just a pole you grab onto, right? Yeah, or it's a chair, yeah. It's also kind of, skiing is kind of one of those class signifier sports, you know? Oh, yeah.

You know, you go buy some land and you defile a sacred mountain with a ski resort. Then you rake in the cash from upper management's families. Good deal. Yeah, I've only been skiing once. As far as I know, I did not defile a sacred mountain. I've never done it. I also went once. And true to my southern roots, I figured out how to turn left, but not right.

I figured out how to stop. And I thought, okay, this is the most important thing I'm ever going to need to learn about skiing. Stopped and was like, okay, that was good. Covered that. Now if I have a flung from the top of a mountain with some skis on, I can like stop myself. I'm good. I never need to go back.

I could barely do that. I mean, you know, it was again, it was the turning right that was an issue. I don't know why. It was somewhere in Maryland. Why? I don't associate Maryland with skiing. I don't either. What's in Maryland, maybe?

No, this is Eastern. This was up like, what, 270, 280? Is 280 the one that comes out of PC? People don't know this, but because of like, so the post-war Cecil won't reasons. Eastern Maryland is technically governed as part of Italy, but it has sort of broad self-governing powers. Yeah, but it's really just big Delaware. The Eastern Shore gets real fucking weird.

270 is the highway I was thinking about. It was somewhere, somewhere way up there as kind of like, I didn't know there were mountains. I was way up there doing it's Maryland. Okay, well, have you ever been through Maryland? With you. Yeah, no, no, I know. It takes so long. It's such a small state, but you're in there for so long.

Is there a ski resort in Frederick? I think it might be north of Frederick. I don't, I don't remember. I don't remember. It ends at Frederick, I'm pretty sure. No, because it turns into a local road after that. So like between Frederick and Gettysburg is basically where you were. Probably, yeah.

Being me on this podcast sometimes takes on the character of being like a kid in the backseat where your parents argue and drive at the same time. We do argue and drive a lot. Yes, this is true. This is true. Huh. I have no idea where this place is, but I was there. You didn't imagine it.

It wasn't like implanted in your head as a secret, as a false memory by the CIA. Liberty Mountain Resort. This looks about right. That might have been it. Yeah. The only time I went skiing, I was in a bit of France that bought a Switzerland. It's called FLEM, F-L-A-I-N-E-S, which always in my head, I turned into FLEM. Here's the thing.

Here's the fucking thing. All right. Yeah. Fucking Fairfield, Pennsylvania is not in Maryland. Okay. But it's like it's, it's basically, it's in that sort of where you were. I went to a wedding there. Yeah, I know.

Oh my God. People need to stop having weddings in the middle of nowhere. I fucking know. Everyone has a drunk drive home. It sucks. Having a ski wedding. You got to like go down like double black diamonds. Yeah, it's your Michelle.

Yeah. All right. Anyway, skiing. Now that we've established the way you went skiing one time. Yes. It couldn't turn right. Yeah. Yeah.

So this particular ski area was on a mountain called Cermis. Cermis. Cermis, yeah. Probably. Probably. It was built sometime in the 1960s. It was very hard to find information on the actual system, like the cable car system, like the history of it.

There's a lot of details about this one that were just more difficult to find than you might think. Mm-hmm. The cable car was installed at that same time. Right. And this system had a history to it and not a great one. So the first accident occurred in 1976, right? Oh, God. Now the cable car was being.

I feel like it's never good when we just hear the first accident. This is going to be, this is going to be like a sort of mini episode within the episode. We'll compress the whole episode of it. There's your problem down into a couple of sentences for you. Hello and welcome to where it is your problem. It's a problem. As a matter of fact, I'm doing a new safety thing. I have news.

I have a new problem. It all symbolizes the cable car. The cable car was being operated by unqualified people. Right. The support cable and the carrier cable crossed owing to excessive speed. They were running the system fast because there were too many skiers, right? The cars stopped automatically because the manufacturer

had put in a safety system. So if the cables crossed, cars would stop. The excessive friction could cause problems, right? The operators overrode the safety shut off, then continue to run the cars with excessive speed. The friction caused the carrier cable to snap the support cable. Oh, no, no, no, no. Yeah. And that's the thing that I think is going to happen to me anytime I get on one of these

full 200 feet to my death. Yes. The cabin fell 200 feet down a mountain, killed everyone except for one terrified 14-year-old girl. Jesus. Okay. Christ. I think like 40-something people died in that accident. It was a pretty bad one.

Yeah, no kidding. God, imagine being that goat. You're just like, you know, it was a land on a carpet full of dead skiers. And you're like, that's quite literally what happened. She was shielded by the other bodies around her. Um, and this thing, this is the direct result of like massive and continual disregard of basic safety procedures. So what you're saying is if you're in a cable car and shit goes wrong,

get everyone to lie on the floor so you can get on top of them. Yes, yes. All right. Yeah, news you can use, you know, useful safety tips for surviving your cable car crash. You got about three seconds. Good luck to you. Get, get like doing sort of MMA training, but not to beat a fight, but to knock everyone around me in like a small area to the floor in three seconds or faster.

So this, this accident had a pretty obvious cause. I'm the least baggled of the bodies. Yeah, I assume she was fine. So it was like a deal. But like, yeah, just walked out of it probably, right? I'm not sure. Oh man, I don't, I don't think she had any like serious injuries, but you know, this thing is sort of the direct result of massive continual disregard of basic safety

procedures and manufacturers, instructions, they round up prosecuting for officials of the cable car company. They were all sent to prison, right? They fixed the thing. They put it back into service. It was fine. They didn't break any rules after that. Yeah.

Hi, it's Justin. So this is a commercial for the podcast that you're already listening to. People are annoyed by these. So let me get to the point. We have this thing called Patreon, right? The deal is you give us two bucks a month and we give you an extra episode once a month. Sometimes it's a little inconsistent, but you know, it's two bucks. You get what you pay for.

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It's your decision and we respect that. Back to the show. We see that this is this is the thing, right? This is like me and flying is every time some plane crash happens. I like I feel a bit better because I'm like, well, surely this can't happen again now that they've found the problem and fixed it. The candidate will, Alice. Every time you say something like this, the possibility of me being in person at a live

show gets like one percent lower. You'll be fine, Alice. Very pretty. You're too pretty to get killed in a plane crash. It's like, no, I'm hot. That's definitely a risk factor. If I have any movies I've seen or an indication. Don't be in a horror movie, Alice.

I try not to be. Yeah, I know. I don't have like final go looks. They fixed the thing. They put it back in the service. Nothing bad is going to happen first. Yeah. But that's what I mean is I don't look like the one who like survives all the way to the end.

No, you're the you're the hot one who dies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I will I will fully be like having sex and then the movie will be like time to die now. They kill the black guy first. Oh, yeah, that's true. That's true. They do do that. God damn it.

So me and Chris is not looking good for us. I was about to say, yeah. Sorry. All right. So they had one accident. It was really bad. It was in fact, I believe the worst cable car accident in history. But it's back up and running field.

Yeah, it's back up and running. They're very safe systems. So this is where we have to I'm going to talk about sort of an abstract engineering concept here, right, which is failure conditions, right? And this is mostly an aeronautical engineering term, but it can be sort of broadly applied elsewhere, right? So most systems can have a wide variety of problems, right? But some of them are pretty minor problems.

Like let's say in a cable car, maybe the power goes out in a cable car. What happens? The lights go out, you can't charge your phone, right? But the cable car still makes it to its destination. And if we look at this chart over here, in which the y-axis is probability of failure condition and the x-axis is severity of failure condition effects, that is something where it's pretty minor, right? This is a minor problem.

And that means if it happens, it's okay. You don't have to engineer a super-duper robust system to prevent that from happening. It's not safety-critical, the lights be on all the time. But you don't want it to happen still. And that's saying you should let it happen. But if it happens, it's not going to murder anyone, right? So a more serious but less likely problem be like, okay, failure of the carrier wire, right? And that could do anything from like,

strand the car in the middle of, in between two towers, right? It could lead to the car sliding back into the lower station, so on and so forth, right? This is mitigated by multiple braking systems, redundant support wires, or if it's a single wire system, you make the one wire really big and strong, right? So that's sort of like, this is a major problem. And you do not want that to happen. You have to make that system very robust, right? You want to make it really, really big and burly,

so it's obvious something is going to go wrong. A long time before the problem actually occurred. And then you have additional systems. You have rescue vehicles. This is in India. There was a stranded car. They couldn't get a wire out there. So they brought this sort of the cable car equivalent of a handcart.

Basically, yeah, you know. Fuck that road, shit. Jesus. Yeah, but imagine having to step onto this thing. No. Down here, this is in Germany. I forget where you have guys zip lines down there. And then, all right, get in the harness.

We're bringing you back. Yeah, I have to get like strapped to a German firefighter for like 45 minutes of whatever. Something like that. Yeah, great. This is, I hope you're not afraid of heights, but it's irrelevant because you're coming down or you're not. You want to stay up here? What if one of those conditions were where you're like,

yeah, if you think about having a panic attack, don't. The solution for that is you don't do that. You're going to have to put that off for about 25 minutes. That is entirely too long. Yeah, you're going to have to wait till you get on the ground to have the panic attack. This is a whole rig of moral. When you have a car stop, you can't get people off. So you try and avoid the situation.

This is again, recoverable, but you don't want to do this, right? But then there's like very rare situations where safety procedures cannot compensate for them. Yeah, you're catastrophic. You're completely catastrophic failure mode, but also you will see, where you say this is acceptable is somewhere where it's an event which is extremely improbable. That's where, don't worry about that. If that happens, it's because God hates you. It's a mysterious act of God's love.

It's a mysterious act of God's hate. Yes, so in the sort of plain typology, so like a hazardous failure mode might be something like an, I don't know, like an uncontained engine failure. A catastrophic failure mode is like wing falloff. Yes. Well, you would engineer so the wing doesn't fall off. Hit by meteor. Yeah, hit by meteor.

That's something you should not engineer for. Lose straight into a brick wall that appeared in front of the aircraft. That's, you don't have to engineer for that. Godzilla, again, not something you engineer for. So a bunch of Libyan guys put a bomb in a suitcase in the cargo hold, that kind of thing. Yeah, you don't you don't engineer for that. That's stupid to try and engineer for that. Don't do that.

Then you're into sort of why don't you make the whole playing out of the black box kind of terrifying. It would be too heavy. But the pithiest answer I ever heard to that was because highways aren't wide enough to drive planes down, which is what you would need to do. So, so these are things you cannot plan for and should not plan for, right? Safety is always a trade-off. All safety decisions are trade-offs and compromises. Yeah, sometimes you just get final destination and there's nothing you can do about it.

Yeah, if you wanted to be perfectly safe, you could go live in a bunker for your entire life. I'm trying. I get to record a podcast in here now. You know who went to go live in a bunker his entire life? Hitler, eventually. And he died. So even that's not safe because he might lose World War II. Thank you for that, Alice.

It's not a Nazi. So in our case, in the first accident on this cable car system, they overrode safety systems to speed up the cable cars and then overrode safety systems to start them back up. You can't reasonably engineer for people being that dumb with your system. You get what's coming to you, right? And overall, cable cars are very safe systems if operated within their design envelope. Yeah, you shouldn't feel bad about taking one. It's going to be fine.

However, sometimes you encounter sort of force measure, right? Like an outside context problem. And in the history of the world, one of the largest outside forces has been the United States Marine Corps. Not actually seen here because I wanted a picture that showed the canopy. So I got a Navy aircraft. This is an EA-6B Prowler, a product of Grumman. One, two, three, four, United States Marine Corps.

That's right. 18 people. This is an electronic warfare aircraft that was operated by the US Navy and the US Marines. What does it do? What is this thing? But it kind of does a bit of everything. It had quite a lot of niche specialist missions. But it's bread and butter stuff is it jams targeting radars.

If you want to bomb, say, I don't know, Libya in the 80s, if you're Ronald Reagan, you send a couple of these to, like, loiter off the coast, incapacitate the local air defense while the fighters get in, bomb the thing, get out again. But it also, like, it can jam and intercept radio transmission, so you can, like, collect signals, intelligence from up there. It carries a couple of radar-seeking missiles, so it can destroy air defense sites itself. Incidentally, a radar-seeking missile is generally known by the much cooler name of an anti-radiation missile.

Nice. Also, you can see it has a gold cockpit that is actual gold in the glass. That's supposed to minimize interference. I'm not sure if that actually works. Anyway, that's all, like, a lot of stuff that this plane can do and is expected to do. And so what you end up with is this was originally a two-seater plane. This one has been stretched. This is what makes it an A6B.

It's now a sort of, like, school bus with a pilot and a flight officer up front. The flight officer navigates. And then you have two sort of low-level majors in the back called Electronic Countermeasure Officers, ECMOs. And they do all of the stuff. They do all of the, like, radar jamming and so forth. You can also run it with just one pilot and three of those. Two things to note here.

Interesting that you need all this plane for four guys. I mean, I guess I get it. But, you know, I feel like for electronic countermeasures, you know, wouldn't a Cessna do? The replacement to this is sort of a variation of an FAA team. So you can kind of mount these to whatever you want. And this sort of gets into one of the things that I want to observe about the prowler is that, like, it's basically a 1960s aircraft down to there. It was introduced in 71.

The original project name was the Electric Intruder, which I find quite cool. That's a great name. And, like, it's basically, it's too niche and too expensive to replace. You see this with a lot of sort of, like, not directly combat aircraft for a long time. Like the B-52. Yeah, like the B-52. Yeah, but I could just, but I could just loiter forever. B-52s, ASW aircraft, carrier resupply aircraft.

This thing is a carrier aircraft by design as well. And because it's so difficult to create a new aircraft that is capable of taking off and landing on carriers, you like sticking with the stuff that you know works. What you do is you keep this, like, and every few years you go and you upgrade the magic electric computer stuff and you call it good. You install Windows 2000. Yeah, exactly. And, like, the other thing is this is kind of a boring job.

Like, for a long time, these have been in search of something to do because you only really want to use one of these in a kind of war where you have surface to MSO shooting at aircraft and you want to stop that from happening. So these things, they are some use in the Gulf War. They've got some use in, like, isolated airstrikes here and there, but really these were sort of waiting for a Cold War to go hot that never did. I was itching to donate them to Ukraine right now. Well, I mean, they're out of service, so maybe.

It's like, as far as I know, none of these was ever lost in combat. They've fired missiles and stuff. Oh, we can change that in Ukraine. But, like, the perverse thing is, for something that involves a lot of carrier takeoffs and landings, this is weirdly a boring job. It's not that prestigious. It's not very dangerous. Most of what you're doing as a pilot is you drive to the location and three other guys

go on the computer. With the LAN party. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they really, they really stretched what they expected these things to do. Like, in the war on terror, they were flying these things over Afghanistan trying to, like, jam cell phones so you can set off IEDs and stuff. And it's like, yeah, I guess. But it's, I don't know, it feels like a bit of a waste, really.

Next slide, please. So we have a bunch of these just just sitting around. They're normally attached to a carrier group. But in this case, we were in the midst of the Balkan Wars in the 90s. And as a result of the Balkan Wars, V-MAC2 with the, are we the bad guys emblem, a marine electronic warfare squadron based out of Aviano air base in northern Italy. And what they're supposed to be doing is to do, like, suppression of enemy air defenses over the former Yugoslavia, try and stop British Harriers from getting shot down doing reconnaissance flights.

Incidentally, this squadron used to be called the Playboys, complete with the, like, bunny logo. Jesus Christ. In 1992, the woke leftist Marine Corps made them stop doing that, and they had to change it. Incredible. They stopped them from being horny, and they had to be fascist instead. Yeah. I think in this phase, they're called something like the death jokers. That's a stupid joke. Stupid day.

Stupid day. If you're listening to this on just audio, we're looking at a badge here that has a skull in a joker hat. And the skull is smiling. Yeah. It's more of a gesture hat. Yeah, actually. And the squadron motto there can do easy. So, but you have to keep up with your training even when you're, like, deployed. And that means you have to do the low altitude training, which you do need for a bunch of reasons.

You're probably not going to, like, use it. But just in case, just in case you need to be, like, ducking away from migs coming through the folder gap or whatever, you need to be able to, like, train guys to fly and navigate in valleys and stuff. I have some cockpit, this is from cockpit footage of them doing that in Washington about the same time. They still do crap like this. I mean, I was in, I mentioned, I was in Switzerland a long time ago. I, there was a nice hotel there with a nice restaurant. We went through a couple of times.

You could sit out on the back porch. This was way up the mountain. You could watch the Swiss Air Force doing maneuvers below you. And it was, you know, that's, that's, that's the, look at those jets down there. There used to be a place called the Mac Loop in Wales where you could do that, but they've, they've since stopped doing it there. But so on February 3rd, 1998, I finally got to do a date, Captain Richard Ashby's plane is his EA6B, call sign EZ01, is instead of bombing,

yeah, it was sort of, instead of doing, like, seed over Yugoslavia, is doing some low altitude training. This is Ashby's last flight before he gets promoted to fly fighters, which is obviously much cooler. And prior to this, he's received a bunch of warnings for shit like flying too low, flying under cables, doing barrel rolls. I believe the US military reports into this refers to them with the phrase top gun antics, which is very funny.

Oh, that's sad. He's, he's, he's up front sitting next to him as Captain Joseph Schweitzer. He's his navigator. It's his last flight before leaving the Marine Corps. He's getting out. There's only one flight from retirement. Genuinely. Yes.

Yes. Jesus. Next slide, please. So here we have the map that they had in front of them for planning this. And if you look, just sort of in the center, go, go from the center slightly down, just above Prodazzo, you see a mark for aerial cableway. That is the only marking on there. It doesn't show you where it goes.

Oh, boy. Wait. Where? Okay. So. Trent goes over here. I met Trent, though. Okay.

Okay. So, so if you, if you look, if you follow the arrow all the way up, it's like the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth crosshatch marking up that arrow, right above Prodazzo. Oh, okay. That's cute. Yeah. Aerial cableway.

Aerial cableway. There it is. Aerial cableway. Right. Okay. That's not very well marked. No, it really isn't. And you see this also has like various like high points that might be sort of threats to

aircraft here, like church steeples and power plants and aerial cables marked on it. Mountains? It also, also those. So, topographic marks for that. Yeah. So, the Italian government has put out this order that bans flight under 2000 feet under any circumstances. Smart.

That's a good idea, frankly. These guys don't know about it because their squadron commander never tells them. He never tells them because the minimum altitude they're supposed to do on this is 1000 feet. And their squadron commander, Lieutenant Colonel Mooga, he's like, ah, it's probably safe. Fuck the Italians. Like it's above anything that could really be dangerous. It's fine.

So, you're supposed to fly above 1000 feet or 2000 feet if you're listening to the Italians. You're also never supposed to fly under cables of any kind. And there's a speed limit. So, you do all of that. Genuinely. You do all of that. She flies through the thing. Getting clocked by one of those New York City speed cameras.

Yeah, they send out the NYPD 6B to pull you over. I just want to point out, this is not a lightly populated area. No. People are just, you know, coming out here, lying on their jets at like 500 miles an hour, right above people's houses. Thus why the speed limit is like, I think it's like 517 miles an hour, is to stop you from like breaking everyone's windows. Yeah.

So, they do the morning maintenance. The flight crew goes over the whole aircraft. The mechanics go over the whole aircraft. The G meter is broken. That's the meter that tells you how many G there is. That's busted. So, they replace that. Everything else is fine.

And the navigator goes to the pilot and says, hey, since it's my last flight, can I borrow your camcorder to like film us doing this? Oh, dear. Next. I was probably like maybe 14, 15 when I was at my grandparents' house in Lexington, Virginia. And every once in a while, a Vimy graduate decides to buzz the academy.

Oh, yeah. Classic. And this one did it particularly low. It was the loudest sounds I heard in my life. Central Glasgow at one point was immediately under a typhoon, a urethane that got, there was intercepting like a passenger plane that wasn't responding or something. And it didn't actually break my window,

but I had a big like picture window in my flat. And it rattled the absolute fuck out of that. No, thank you. Yeah. Yeah, terrifying. But so that's what they're going to do. Is they're going to scare some Italians, but it's going to be fine.

All the Italian ladies yelling at this guy the whole way. Yes. Yeah. So they set off. Ashby is apparently doing some more top gun shit. Like at one point, he literally does a barrel roll. Schweitzer, the navigator, he is filming. He's mostly filming himself.

Apparently a lot of the footage is like his own face smiling. So like doing a selfie around. Doing a TikTok. Genuinely, yes. Like before the existence of the popularization of the cell phone camera, he's doing selfies. The military will never change. It's just like this.

And then they hit the aerial cableway marking. Yes. And they get a bunch of pasta sauce gets all over the ground. Yes. Well, this is Italy, I suppose. Yes. Yeah. They hit the cable.

It's Italy month. Here it will. That's your problem. That's right. And the failure mode that I'm always terrified of happens. They go through the cable. They hit the cable at like 540 miles an hour. It is one of those catastrophic failure modes.

You can't build a cable. You can't build a cable that resists the cable. That was aircraft proof. Yeah. You can't make it aircraft proof. No. And it just snaps through it. And the cable car drops 260 feet to the ground.

Yes. It kills 20 people. One thing I noticed about this disaster, which I think is different from a lot of disasters we've covered, is there's a lot more blood in this one. Oh, yeah. You know, I think maybe because it fell on the snow, you know.

I think so. You couldn't like wash that off for the press photos. But yeah, this one was pretty gruesome. I mean, I think everyone died instantly, you know. Yeah, you just kind of like explode at that point. Yeah, you turn into a sort of smash burger. Yeah. I think it's partly a function of the snow

and partly a function of like the Italian press, like just being able to get up there and like take photos right on top of it. But you'd want to push people back further than necessarily couldn't take this photo. This is an example of a failure condition that you cannot engineer for. A plane flies into the cable. That's so wildly out of the pale of possible. No one's planning for that shit. Yes.

You can't plan for it and you shouldn't plan for it. And often. When it's not like a natural phenomenon or something, I find that these sort of like catastrophic failing modes generally come from a sort of another organization or another system that isn't doing its own safety. Like this is sort of a catastrophic unforeseeable event to a cable car. This is not a catastrophic unforeseeable event to a marine squadron.

Um, this is something that like the safety of this belonged to another organization that did not do it. Yes. Right. Uh, next slide please. So you'll be pleased to know that the plane is fine. Awesome. This is this is the vertical stabilizer. You can tell just sheared right the fuck through there before it snapped away,

which is sort of a testament to how strong that cable was, incidentally. Um, but so, uh, this plane, easy zero one gets this hugely dramatic looking tail damage and some some wing damage as well. But combat combat planes are very strong. It's fine. Like it comes back to to Aviano and lands safely. I think it would have been funnier if it was just slammed right into the cable car itself. Just perfectly 9 11.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, uh, everyone was going to die anyway, at least on the perpetrator's foot as well. So these four guys are like, they land back at Aviano and they know they're fucked, right? Because they've seen it happen.

They're not unaware of what's happened. Like they've been filming it also. Um, they know that the minimum, uh, altitude they should have been at is like 2,000 feet per the Italians, 1,000 feet per the Marines. And they were at like 260, maybe up to like 3,30. Um, yeah, this the cable car is not especially high off the ground. No, it is purely something that you would do if you were trying to show off. Right.

Um, uh, they're also they're also over the speed limit. You know, the big sort of like speed camera catches them. That it's like 517 miles an hour and they hit it like 540. All right. But okay, that's yeah. Cause if they hit it at 517, it would have been fine. It would have balanced off the limit that it's within the limit of like what you can reasonably speed, right?

It's like, okay, it's like plus or minus 5% kind of thing. Yeah. 5% on this thing's like 50 miles an hour or something. No, 5% of 500 is 25 miles an hour. 25 miles an hour. Oh, yeah. A little bit over. Okay.

Just a bit. Just a bit. Yeah. It's like a couple of points on your license kind of thing. Investigators will later find both a copy of the Italian minimum altitude restriction and a map that showed the cable car more clearly in the cockpit, in envelopes, unopened. Outstanding. The crew members, by the way, to this day, insist that the Italians are lying about that.

And they're not. Yeah, I'm just like, back then you had to have a paper map and there's this guy with a camcorder, but he also has like the the Rand McNally Atlas open. He's trying to navigate the one. Yeah, he's the navigator too. Like, if we go to the next slide. Hey guys, I'm here in the plane. I got my Rand McNally Atlas.

We're going to try and get to Torino today. If we go to the next slide, we can see some of the wing damage, which is even less. Like, that's that's nothing. It is not the thing open, but it's it's fine. So, you know, what do you what do you do about this? If you're this flight crew? Well, and cover it up. Yeah.

Next, like in the finest of US military traditions, you cover it up. The navigator, he takes the tape out of the camcorder and literally burns it behind a bar and replaces it with a blank one. Terrific. Just terrific work. So obviously, you're getting court-martialed, right? You're getting court-martialed. In this case, you're getting court-martialed for 20 counts of manslaughter,

which is not a small thing. Well, the Italians tried to try him. It doesn't work. It doesn't work. 01:23:48,560 --> 01:23:50,720 It stays in the forces agreement and shit. Like, because you can't do it, you know. Once again, NATO.

Great. Yes. Great idea. I'm glad we have it. Yeah, you have to have US personnel be subject to US military courts. US military courts are very, very serious, and that's why the pilot, Captain Ashby, he claims my altimeter, the one that they checked right before they left that morning, that was broken.

Interesting how that works. And it didn't make any low-altitude warning noises. So I didn't know that I was too low, despite the fact that I was flying through a valley. You can see it. You can see that you're flying low, brother fucker. Yeah, you can see it. Look out the window. You know, as a Marine officer, he's entitled to be tried by a jury of his brother officers,

and you know, it's all very fair, and they acquit both of them. This defense of, I am too stupid to look where I am flying. That works. I don't know, guys. I'm pretty dumb. All the Marines are like, yeah, I'm pretty dumb as well. Yeah, I'm pretty dumb as well. I don't get it, I don't get it.

The jury appears, yeah. Failing like jury deliberations are like kind of going to the wire, because they're onto like their third box of crayons in the jury round. They're all very, very, very invested in punitive systems, but they inadvertently do jury nullification every time, because they're like, yeah, I probably would have done that too. See, my favorite crowd callback in Rocky Horror Picture Show is where Rocky is like, he's like cramming food into his mouth with like, with his hands and someone and you yell before that Rocky like a Marine.

And then when he gets yelled at and he starts doing the exact same thing, just cramming like hunks of food into his mouth. My food is here for later. No worries. Yeah, so when he like gets yelled at and he starts doing the same thing and cramming hunks of food into his mouth with a fork, you just go like, hey, Rocky, like a Marine officer. But yeah, so the pilots are quitted. The prosecution against the navigator collapses after that.

And what happens after that is that the two crew members in the back, the two sort of like low level electronic warfare majors. I say low level, they're all like, they're all captains, I think. This is like all junior officers in here. But both of those guys, they have like maybe an attack of conscience or something. And they get immunity in exchange for telling NCIS like in the show, the Navy cops. They told the goth chick from NCIS. Yes.

Yeah, they told the goth chick from NCIS the truth about this tape. And we get a second court martial of the pilot and the navigator for down from 20 counts of manslaughter to you destroyed a videotape. And this amounted to obstruction of justice and conduct unbecoming. Conduct unbecoming is kind of a bullshit charge. Conduct unbecoming of an officer and a gentleman. Yes. Yeah, it's literally just like you have embarrassed the institution.

You have embarrassed the Marines, which is such a great reputation. We didn't think it was possible, but you found a way. But but they do get them on the second on the second try. They they convict both of them. Both of them get kicked out of the Marines. One of them was literally leaving after this anyway. The pilot gets four and a half months in jail sentenced to six. Which is not a lot.

Like it's not a lot for killing 20 people through negligence. No, I mean, like if you if you I don't know if you were driving and you'd like, even if you weren't drunk or whatever, you just plowed into a crowd and killed 20 people somehow. I feel like you would get more than six months in prison. I disagree. Well, yeah, I mean, maybe you stay by the accident. You will get nothing. As long as you don't hit and run.

We've kind of like a U.S. court system will give you nothing. You know those posts that's like murder is functionally legal if you do it in a car. Apparently also true of, I guess, why shouldn't it be? I'm at aircraft. Yeah, well, I mean, it is it is designed to kill people out. Yeah, that's its job. No, not usually like doing your job. So NATO compensates the families with about like a million dollars each of NATO funds.

Like 75 percent of that comes from the U.S. But in the end, Italy ends up paying more than the U.S. does in compensation. It's out like 23 million dollars, I think. This, of course, singularly fails to prevent a wave of anti-Americanism in Italy, which we can add to the sort of great big list of fantastic moments in international military cooperation like the time a guy crushed a bunch of South Korean school children with an Abrams tank and all the rest of it. Abrams is basically a car that's legal.

Yeah, exactly. It's functionally a car. And I have a question, actually. Yeah, yeah. So they were acquitted and then the two other guys came through and provided. Yeah, they burned the tape. So yes, but that's a different charge. So it's not double jeopardy. OK, I was, yeah, I was a little bit confused there.

Yeah. Have to say I'm for lesser crime. Yes, exactly. Technically, what we did was convict them on a charge of like obstructing an investigation which found that they committed no crime. Right. So it's sort of procedural in that way. Gossip system's great.

Yeah. So obviously, the navigator's career was already over. It ends the pilot's career. It also ends the career of the squadron commander, which, yeah, good. Of the two guys in the backseat, one of them, Seagraves, the guy who like, I believe, I don't want to say ratted on, but the one who got immunity first, he's fine. Like he got out in like 2017 as a like a full colonel. Long list of pretty cool assignments. He was like events coordinator for the Blue Angels at one point.

And like a bunch of cool jobs. And he got all of those despite the fact that this is the fun thing about immunity. After the thing, when they were in the offices mess afterwards, he asked them about the tape and allegedly instructed them to destroy it. So a valuable lesson about the sort of internal politics of how to conduct yourself amidst a sort of naval criminal investigative service investigation. Rats early, rat often, you know. If you're in line to rat, stay in line.

Yeah, exactly. It's like the opposite of all of those lawyer tics talks. No, if investigators come to you, tell them everything, give them everyone. And I mean, that actually might be good advice in the military justice system because you need to talk to the goth chick first. Yes. Yeah. I mean, like in the in the in the military justice system, you have no rights functionally. You can't just sit there and be like, I don't know anything. You genuinely should.

Yeah. Tell them everything. Rats on your friends. Do it. And yeah, that's that's the lesson, I guess. Excellent. The sort of like civil litigation is long and largely in in conclusive thread. The U.S. Congress rejected a compensation package in like nine. The Italian parliament eventually approved compensation for the families. The tune about $1.9 million per victim.

It's a lot of Xboxing. Yes, that's what's what's Xboxing, but in Italian. Xboxing, Xbox, Xbox, Xbox, Xbox, Xbox, Xbox, Xbox. So I believe the United States through a NATO treaty paid about 75% of that. Yeah. And the Cermis cable car was replaced with something with more but smaller cabins. Yeah, to make a smaller talk. Yeah. Yeah.

I don't know if there's like as we've said, there's nothing the cable car could have done to avoid this. I don't know if there's anything I could do to like prevent it after the fact. This is entirely the fault of the United States Marine Corps. It's put it on the pile with all of the other stuff. Yes. Many, many, many issues. Why are they a separate branch? Why do we need a separate branch for some wet soldiers? I thought they weren't a separate branch.

I thought they were in the Department of the Navy. But it's it's weird. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's a separate branch, same department kind of thing. So I guess same thing now as the Space Force is still the Department of the Air Force. Space Force. Yeah, this is.

Has anyone been to space in the Space Force? I don't think so. That's classified. Yeah, we've been saying the X-37B is unmanned for years, but actually there's like six dudes. And like six dudes and they crash right into a mound of hypersonic speeds. We do this each week. I imagine when I find a guy who survives and we're going to use him to read our Space Marine program. But firstly, I do agree that the Space Force probably should be a separate branch,

but I don't think the Marine should be. I yeah. Well, I'll buy that. Why not? Yeah, I think the Space Force should be under the Department of the Navy replacing the Marines. This is a sort of halo timeline, I believe. So they.

This is how you can have a master chief in space, you know, unless he's like a corpsman or something. So I don't know enough if having more smaller cars is better than less bigger cars. So if you are a CC head, if you are a cable carer, if you are an aerial Graham. Fan. Fan. Yes. Yeah. Let us know in the comments, because I don't know.

But this is what the modern system looks like. What am I calling you a trover? But that's OK. A roper. Oh, I don't like that. I think it's probably one of those situations where they're like, only we can use that word. It's like reclaiming. Go home, homers.

This is going to this is going to do like huge on like cable car guy tick tock, I think. Sir, there's there's got to there's got to be. There's to talk for everything else. I was surprised because I was like, there's got to be a cable car enthusiast like forum or something. I could look up for this and there doesn't seem to be like a console. Even like Wikipedia is like surprisingly underdeveloped for like it's like an onion link. You know, you got to yeah.

Anyway, if you're if you're. If you're if you're only trams, yes, yes, if you're in if you're in like if you're in like DSA, Northern Italy branch, transit riders, caucus or whatever. Yes, get out of here and DSA, Switzerland. Oh, the logo is like a couple of hands shaking over like a tramway. If you if you have debates over how many carrier and support wires there really should be. Well, I'm sure a bunch of military people are going to get mad at me for fucking up shit about both the Marines and planes, but I don't know anything about either.

Um, all right, I you know, I have known several Marines in my lifetime. And they are 5050, the nicest people I've ever met and complete psychos. I feel like the Marine niceness gradient sort of like is directly correlated or inversely correlated to a number of like marine stickers that you have on your truck kind of thing. This is true. Yes. All right. Well, let's wrap this bitch up. Let's do it.

We have a section on this podcast called if you're third, shake hands for danger. Hello, Raz. Yeah, it's like her notes. Alice, Liam, and hello, eventual guest. Shut the fuck up. It's been a minute. Yeah, we haven't had a guest.

I hope this is the right place to share this because at the moment, I'm out of a job mainly because of the story of the pub I'm about to share with you. And I can't afford a subscription. Send you a subscription. Yeah. I invite you to guess while you're reading this, the country which I live in. Southern Switzerland or Northern Italy. The pub in question, which we'll call pH was really popular some 10 to 15 years ago.

Because it was the only pub in its area. But as time progressed, they got less business. And they started cutting some corners. Quite a lot of corners, in fact. And they started getting creative on how to earn more money and spend less money. And it's efficiency. Quite a lot creative. In fact, when I started working there as a dishwasher,

I was kind of amazed that the kitchen would work as well as it did. Mainly because the stove, four burner and gas grill block had bent and rusty metal legs and was sitting on big, empty, rusted pans of tomato sauce in the fridge. The fridge would randomly stop working a couple of times a month. With no food at all being thrown out. Not even the brine shrimp. Well, that's why they're brined, right? Is this fine?

I think I lived in this kitchen in Palace. I love being like, yeah, so that's a load bearing empty can of tomato sauce. Don't worry about that. Also, brine shimps. Brine shimps, yes. Exactly one meter behind the sink, sitting next to the table, on which we put clean dishes and glasses to be put away. There was the gas pasta boiling machine.

Jesus. How do I get one of those? Separated from the stove by a small gap of around 40 centimeters in which we had to squeeze through to get to the fridge if the barman needed fruits and such for the bar. The slicer on which we cut all the prosciutto, spec, salami and so on had no clamp. We had to hold what we were cutting by hand and that's where I lost the tip of my thumb.

I'm really always, whenever we get a restaurant safety third, like, I'm always like, yeah, this is, I'm so glad I've never had to do restaurant work. Anything else? We've had oil shit and I've been like, yeah, yeah, whatever. But like restaurant stuff, I'm like, oh, thank God, I've never had to do that. Well, this story is doubt about my fingers, nor the time in which I had to climb an eight meter tall ladder propped up against said tomato cans to go try and open the AC tube that was a close with the

hardboard. This story is about how and why the pub was finally closed. The pH was a three-story building. I was at pH because of Olive Garden being OG and they've just like shifted a lesser. Okay, I just put, they didn't send a picture, so I put Olive Garden. Well, if you accidentally decoded this, that'd be so funny. The pH was in a three-story building with a downstairs main floor and elevated floor. Again, Olive Garden's only in America where we haven't invented the second floor yet. Lost technology.

Lost technology. So it has to be somewhere else. The downstairs area was connected by a narrow staircase only wide enough for two people if they would squeeze a bit. This downstairs area was only open on the weekends and the owners decided to use this area to host what we call disco events. Sorry, were you the cook at the fucking whirling in rags? DJ would set up on the console. Two of the organizers would place a table and some chairs to restrict the access below the only staircase to take their money, stamp the people who got in and give them their tickets for two free drinks.

Meanwhile, two barmen who were often me and a colleague would make strengths nonstop for the 300 plus people participating and everybody except us would have a great time. No. There's no way they were tipping. Tip for your free drinks, folks. Give the bartender a dollar. If you only come away from this podcast with one thing, you have to tip even for free drinks. All right.

What was not particularly good is that this room had tables and chairs for circa 100 people on normal days and these would need to be moved to create a dance floor. Where did we move them? Well, of course, in front of the fire exit. How to create like a basement full of charred corpses in this one easy step? In addition, the ventilation was older than the pub itself. Station nightclub was supposed to be a cautionary tale. This is a fascinating sense here. The ventilation was older than the pub. Was it like naturally occurring that someone like build an HVAC system and then like someone

built a pub around it later? Yeah, it was one of those like old Iranian like gadgets. The ventilation was older than the pub itself. So every surface would get soon very moist with breath perspiration of 300 plus people. Sometimes you could feel the air sparkling on your tongue for how much carbon dioxide there was like that. This is this is the basement where you go to get covid. The organizers, of course, thought that what the party really needed was the smoke machine,

which they used very liberally. Great. Great. Now, this could be a great time to also point out the attendees would be rarely older than 16, except for some local hooligans that would come for the cheap alcohol and then stay for the fights that would inevitably break out between them and usually end up in someone getting stabbed after they get thrown out by the bouncer. Note that bouncer is singular. Great. Finally, on their 20th year of operations, the ASL, the Atsyenda sanitaria locale,

uh, check. Hey, we finally placed it in Italy. It's in Italy. Yeah, checked in on us and closed down the pub as they did some major renovations, which included cleaning the kitchen, painting all the walls, which didn't last long since the walls were coated by a thick yellowed layer of grease and the paint peeled right off. Oh, God.

Getting rid of the paint like the walls repel paint now. We've accidentally made hydrophobic walls. Getting rid of Indiana Jones volcano ride passage between the stalls, got rid of the pasta machine. Hey, I would like a pasta machine. Going back in, you know, got a new slicer, fixed the fridge, do a deep clean between the bar, counters in the wooden slightly elevated floor behind them that contained 20 years of dust, fallen fruits resembling what you could find in a pyramid and a couple of dead rodents.

And this, of course, puts some additional financial strain on some of the already struggling cages owners, which decided to double down on the disco events. Yes, more disco. Which in turn, guarded the attention of the, uh, carabinieri. Yeah, the carabinieri. Yeah, I don't know why. I've only seen it written.

No, you won this one. I'm going to start calling them that now. Use this side. I've never, I've never had to pronounce the word. I've only had to talk to them. Yeah, no, it's Joe Cassavion syndrome, don't worry. All right. After a couple of parents denounced it, both to them and the press,

so they could no longer ignore the situation like they did for years in exchange for some of alleged bribery, finally. Are you accusing carabinieri in like a small town of being corrupt? But the cars are so cool. Yeah, they're the cool stripes like alphas. Yeah, they're like all black with the red stripes. Oh my God. They're like white leather.

No, it's one of the most aesthetic law enforcement agencies, I would say. Again, I've never had to pronounce the name. I've only had to talk to them. Wait a minute, what context? This one, my dad was trying to report the wall being stolen. And the lady yelled at him. Finally, find the owners for 10,000 euro and shut the pub down definitively. I mean, it's a victory for regulation, right?

Yes. But they closed down the only Olive Garden in Italy. You said that Domino's is leaving Italy because Italians don't want to eat terrible American pizza. Italians just don't grade. Like they hate every American chain that shows up there. Starbucks left Domino's left Olive Garden. As far as I know, never even tried. I couldn't move to Italy.

They exported Italy, which is a bizarre, a bizarre place. Because there's a restaurant here in this grocery store there. I admire the Italian commitment to small business, even if small business owners are also reactionary. They're reactionary in a more interesting way. That's true. I hope this story wasn't longer than the limits because I've written it in the Twitter messages before hearing you say to send an email and I actually have no idea how

long it is by guys gal and maybe guests love the podcast. P.S. let me know if you want to know at the time I worked for a PI installing secret cameras in clothing stores inside of smoke detectors, disabling them in the process and stopping the beeping chime in the security panel as a solution. Might have this is that's that's that's the most European job I've ever heard is yeah, and still the secret surveillance cameras that break the fire. Yeah, actually, I'm a I'm a secret police. I am secret police car.

It's okay. It's okay. We're we're we're on the NATO side, but we're secret police. Yeah, I can only be tried in an American military court for my smoke alarm disabled. If we have Italy rolls, I got to move to Italy. That's that's a good idea. You know, we could we could buy a castle for a dollar. God, yeah, Steve Bannon did, except, you know, not fascistly. Yeah, yeah, we could go. We could all go live in the in the podcast and castle together. That'd be fun. Yeah. Castel podcast. Yes, hurry this up so I can finish eating.

Okay. Our next episode is on the Boston molasses disaster. Send one of the commercials before we go. Oh, the usual shit. There you are now. Yeah. Okay. That was rather anticlimactic. Okay, well, bye. Bye.

What's the Marine call? Yeah, that's the idea. Replace him with the space score.