Well There‘s Your Problem - Episode 123: Cybersecurity

Episode Date: February 4, 2023

we talked about stealing the declaration of independence with maia arson crimew maia's web site: https://maia.crimew.gay/ maia's twitter: https://twitter.com/_nyancrimew Our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/wtyppod/ Our Merch: https://www.solidaritysuperstore.com/wtypp Send us stuff! our address: Well There's Your Podcasting Company PO Box 40178 Philadelphia, PA 19106 DO NOT SEND US LETTER BOMBS thanks in advance in the commercial: Local Forecast - Elevator Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/  

do I have everything running yeah it's running it's running greetings greetings federal agents and also presumably some others yeah yeah presumably also shout out to the nachrichten hello and welcome to well there's your problem it's a podcast about engineering disasters with slides i'm justin rosnick i'm the person who's talking right now my pronouns are getting him all right go i am alice called for kelly i'm the person talking now my pronouns are she and her yay leon yay leon hi yeah uh fuck i didn't start recording locally uh it's fine my pronouns are all right no not after the fucking war takes episode oh my god my pronouns are he and him and we have a guest uh one might say a celebrity not quite the pope though yeah i don't

yeah but yeah i'm i'm my arson crime you i am the person talking now my pronouns are it and she hell yeah good sort of pronouns that's a new set we haven't had that before hell yeah breaking new ground that's right you'd like unlock a special sort of bonus move yeah we see here a selection of stock images and i really delved hard into the stock images for this episode and kind of say i love every single one of these fucking things uh yes the subject of tonight's episode cyber security as you can see by all of these hackers um if you if you if you don't have the sort of the visual components of this what you've got here is a succession of dudes and hoodies and balaclavas one of them is like tapping a big sort of cyber map one of them

is pointing a gun at the screen through the matrix code um some there there is a gloved hand emerging from a laptop which i believe is not hacking but uh a derivative of the movie the ring there's also a wizard there is also a wizard yeah there is a wizard yes so with these entirely factual depictions of this is this is me on an average morning honestly this is a man holding up a social security card to a laptop presumably so he can be hacked by someone else he's showing it to the webcam i was i was going to make an identity theft joke but i think as someone with that as a church i shouldn't so so with all of these and with my help we're going to talk about cyber security the dark art of getting into computers and keeping people from doing that

but first we have to do the goddamn news jarring shift of time uh it's real bad again isn't it uh the police uh have uh murdered uh another black uh teenager or was it a teenager or was it like another young black man yeah uh young blameless uh and uh murdered in extremely like egregious way even you was 29 just 29 okay but it feels like um you know it's difficult to keep it straight uh now because exactly exactly uh they sort of like run together and that's horrible it's like one of the worst things about it is you get like desensitized and then resensitized again and then desensitized again uh but yeah so so memphis police in tennessee uh murdered uh murdered a man uh and there is video i recommend not watching it

i have because i i don't know i don't know why uh i've watched the videos uh from like television but i can't bring myself to watch it i don't want to watch it i want to watch it one of the things i do want to say is bad as anyone says it is it's horrifying and we are not easily grossed out or you know shaken people but i do want to say they just like eat them to death right yeah yeah yeah just let him die basically i i want to say sort of frustration over their own incompetence like they weren't able to arrest him uh like as they would have liked to and so they just sort of beat him to death uh out of like frustration um if if anyone tells you that this is anything other than conspiracy murder one uh they are lying to you because that's what it is i feel like of note

there's also that memphis like they followed all the like however many demands there were for reform and they followed all of those they have enacted all of those and they're very proud of that as a police department and this should still happen like yes not not not to imply that the reforms could work but like right yeah and i mean the the i presume that memphis is going to get put under like a federal consent decree after this that's what i told cranny after all the fucking good that does but i yeah want to say i want to say real quick and sorry alice uh it's worth noting that these five officers were black and people are using that as saying well see uh you know whatever racist insane shit but no i mean police is still very much a construct of white supremacy if you don't

understand how that intersects with anti-blackness and the dehumanization of the people you're supposed to protect regardless of the color of their skin you're not getting the fucking joke i when the fop is coming out and saying this is a criminal assault god damn uh but this should you know what this what this continue to radicalize you know the only cops fuck cops so on and so forth the other thing i want to draw out is that this is once again the like enthousiation of a stupid ass idea that has been like disproven on its own merits any number of times which is the we'll just get a special unit of roving cops to like do the sort of high intensity bullshit it's it's crash rampart again this uh like the police chief in memphis had like previously done this

in atlanta with another unit that had like traumatized of like a bunch of patrons in a raid on a gay bar that they had to settle for like ten million dollars or something like that so this was a a special high intensity unit called the fucking scorpion unit um with you know about as much a kind of sound real tough you know yeah that's yeah um it's just a succession of sort of like terrible ideas piled on top of each other so as to what will come of this we we do not know but uh i think it's it's neat for us to put some kind of like worthy cause in the description whether that's bail funds or like crowd funds or i tweeted about it same shit as big issue is we don't we don't see the same kind of protesting that we did a couple years ago

because i think folks are folks are a lot more complacent because we have the good president not the bad president well i think it's also that level of violence continues outside it's there's a lot of thing people aren't you know i do think that contributes to it i think there's just a fatigue about it it's like yep this shit it's like it's the same thing we said after saying the hook right if that wasn't gonna do it then nothing's gonna fucking do it yeah yeah it was it and i i just i like i said yeah i i just hope that this radicalizes you rather than leads you to despair but that's shit good that's gonna do to bring tiry knuckles back so yeah absolutely fuck cops i do want to say and i said this on twitter um you're the sort of regardless of of

a political bet it is your job as a human being to make the cops lives as difficult and as unhappy as possible i mean some real real weird real gross shit like absolutely bog them down waste their time fuck them all right to do that's uh that's not a uh that's not fuck in terms of no this should absolutely do not do not do not a dick to you strap a firecracker to your dick is my advice i think that's gonna be used like a couple of tactical micro bleeps there um i don't i i did i did dm davin task if they could put a picture of my sandwich in the in the in the thing here you know rotating sandwich rotating so all right giant shift of tone to the rotation i've paid too much for the sandwich but i am i am full when i eat it in other news

do you hear someone uh hacked the no fly list what the hell where could that be incredible if you have information relating to this heinous crime uh you know speak now because we don't damn i might have an info or two on this uh but but yeah i guess i made national news again and even bigger this time because tumblr found me funny um that sums it up pretty well but um yeah i i just was bored and hanging out with one of my girlfriends and found the no fly list laying around on a server and that's news now it was it was on like an like a small airline right oh hi an airline which once again ohio exists apparently for three seconds to fuck up the world will be eliminated we must level rocky river ohio this would not have happened if um

there wasn't a need for airlines in ohio because the governor you know rejected all that high speed rail funding in 2008 uh people should be allowed to leave ohio though i honestly i think the funniest thing about this that i haven't really talked about a lot on like various podcasts and stuff is that the only reason we know the list we have is from 2019 is because this airline is absolutely abysmal at crisis communications and keeps confirming to all the media that the list is real and from 2019 that is the only reason we know that we assume that it was from 2022 but um the airline loves to tell all the news outlets that reach out to them that no the list you have is real and also from bad time and bad year i don't worry it's out of date um yeah i think

they shut up by now i'm assuming that yes they reached out to them and asked them what the fuck they're doing uh with like communications because that's probably not what you're supposed to do and i guess the updated list uh like they've just been letting all kinds of people fly for who aren't supposed to be able to i i've never i i don't know anything about info anyway i i called my dad uh to tell him maya that you would be on the episode this whole thing very fascinating and it was it was a combination of uh like do you do you need legal advice and when is the episode coming out and how legal is this and i'm like we're not doing it live on air man like yeah yeah i mean i don't get your lawyers to check anything i say no i generally know what i

can and can't say our lawyers are just my parents yes yeah that's the legal team that is right behind us and listening and waiting for to swat our heads if we say any wrong thing i think the problem for me is more like i'm flying to uh to europe in like a week's time and i can feel my experience at the airport getting worse the longer this podcast goes yeah uh we're gonna make it count alice uh oh yeah i'm getting fucking cavity searched you know they go they go and like they're going in from like the ass and then there's gonna be like fucking they're gonna be feeling my tonsils you know so that's something to look forward to i i will say you know under certain circumstances might feel pretty good um yeah yeah yeah i i will say if you're a lawyer and you listen

to this dumb shit we're hosted in the united states we can say anything we fucking want so i guess the other thing about this is that you you have now like caused 9-11-2 right that's the yes yes i have congratulations i have been informed via email that i unfortunately took the only copy of this list like some conspiracy theorist from the us informed me that now the tsa doesn't have this list anymore and i should have just told the fbi about this instead uh because this would have been better for everyone what but i took the list now the tsa doesn't have that anymore and whenever you fly now if there is a terrorist next to you that is my fault uh so i'll take my fucking chance you can you can tag me on twitter if you're ever next to a terrorist on a

place i don't really see how before the podcast but this is the same theory that many municipal planning departments in the united states have where when you submit plans by email you have to submit two copies which means you just attach the same file twice i guess i guess the thing is that like the security of the no fly lists such as it is doesn't really depend on it being secret right like in any way right um that the only reason it's secret is because they don't want everyone to know just how racist they are like that is the only reason everyone knows that that's like yeah no like it was known but there was just no proof to back it up and like the fact i think like some of the widest things is just that there are like people who at the time that the snapshot

of the list that we have was taken were four years old there are four year old people on this list and they're not unlike they're not even on like the screening list where you get where you always get ssss at the airport as in like enhanced screening and like questioning and shit like the fun stuff to say it off yeah fun glove time yes yeah the thing they do too like all the france people uh but um but i don't like to phrase fun one time but basically like the the wild thing is that you can tell from the fact that no fly is so much bigger than a screening list that the u.s is so sure of their predictive policing shed that they will just ban you from flying based on like oh yeah you live in the same village as muhammadatta was like wasn't like 15 years ago and

wait more than 15 years ago i am what is time one time you're on the same bus yeah one time you're on the same bus is one guy who is also on the same bus but the other interesting thing the list shows that is now becoming more and more apparent the morning researchers from non-us like outlets and academics look at it is that you can start to map out who the u.s works with together in intelligence and who the u.s inherently trusts because like there are so many like irish organized crime figures who are only relevant in ireland on that list and like the only thing that can really mean is that uk intelligence like just gives the u.s some names and they're like yeah sure whatever we put them on the list right because they're like put some more flagrities on

there to uh you know to balance out the muscle names plenty bolger is notably untouched but uh lot help me it's time to go back to the old me like and i also said this before the recording but bell and cat like found some like random french poet on the list and they were like we don't really know why this french poet got on here and as a french investigative journalist i think from from librae uh looked into it and they were they found out that this guy um like was once flying from the u.s with his wife and like tsa was being like kind of shitty to him so he shouted over to his wife like oh yeah uh this this might take a little while but i'm sure i've got through i probably just look like a terrorist and now he's on no fly uh so oh my god

so yeah this there isn't like a whole lot to this list other than the u.s just like the sites who they want to watch list and who they're just gonna ban from flying this i don't know we're gonna end up on the no fly list yeah i i'm just imagining like i already brought up his name but like muhammad atta is on that list and and this list was created this list was created after 9 11 mike mike sometimes you just need to be sure well how dumb would they feel if they like he had done 9 11 to from beyond the gripe to like palpitate yeah but no now we already know that it's my fault anyway it's just so that's right that's right like i just wouldn't even be a fault this time i think that no fly list should

actually be like a physical document then you you could steal it like it was the declaration of independence oh yeah like professional pressure man this season sucks it's like the coke formula you know two people know it and they can't be on the same plane uh well oh yeah so i brought you a gift for this podcast on the declaration of independence thank you i see you've made yourself a home in philadelphia yeah i don't know why you didn't text us to hang out but that's cool sorry i didn't have time with my whole heist plan and like i've been running from like the national archives police yeah yeah oh yeah one one interesting please return the declaration of independence sir what one interesting thing i found out again when i was doing some research

into like this whole thing and how the whole like uh listing system works is that i uh like found like really long documents from the fbi where they describe how it works because like someone foy at them about it uh and basically it's interesting how like obviously this is the reason this is home than the fbi is because that makes interagency collaboration which is a cool buzzword uh way easier than if it were actually home that dhs also i think it makes budgeting easier i think they get more money if it's at the fbi uh but basically every intelligence service in the u.s has like stakes and employees working at the terrorism screening center and yes that does include the u.s postal service intelligence uh postal intelligence service

that is so hard to say uh and that's how i didn't know that was a thing but it's even no the u.s the usp s piss and that is actually what it's called uh it is a real agency that uh surveils your mail but also your twitter posts um hell yeah no i'm this is cool i want the agency with a 99 conviction rate reading my posts um so so now at this point how much trouble are you in both sort of legally and practically like okay so i can't really answer the legally questions since i have been indicted since 2021 and i shouldn't i shouldn't have most indicted guest unless shorn has done some shit we don't know about yeah i can't really make legal legal statements because the u.s is gonna love it love it if i do that uh but basically like

practically uh since that indictment which is unrelated to the current thing of course unless they got really good at predictive policing uh but but basically i cannot leave switzerland presumably ever uh given that any other country would extract me to the us uh so that's not a that's not a bad amount of trouble to be in i would say there are worse countries to be stuck in yeah that's that you are literally quoting what i say in every interview when people are like oh so how do you feel about being stuck in switzerland like switzerland fucking sucks and it's a police surveillance state but it's still like one of the less bad countries to be stuck in forever but yeah i enjoyed it when i was there alpine redoubt en riguizon kind of like yeah i mean

i mean like if it comes down to it we have enough bunkers for me so there you go you're fighting a nuclear war over your extradition i mean they might do it they're crazy you know yeah i just learned i'm german what a fucking horrible thing to learn life on air what what well what are you doing worry about me worry about you but yeah that is like the main like practical thing that happened i guess another practical like consequence i have from this is that i am i now unfortunately have clout uh i unfortunately like 74k followers on twitter now which is both good and bad it's really funny that i can make the worst posts ever and get like a shit ton of interactions that has improved my self-esteem

so much i can just tweet fortnite balls and get like thousands of likes i saw my balls yeah incredible posting yeah so yeah i don't know but i know that that's kind of hit with like consequences congratulations on being in that much trouble congratulations on yeah i was about i mean so much trouble i got fucking twitter clout like imagine does we can only aspire you know it's like yeah we just have to we have to start beef yeah exactly beef you know it's like you and stevens donzinger you know like that isn't that much trouble and still been able to post yeah i don't know i feel like that's one of the most important things about being in trouble is posting through it yes absolutely posting through the 2023 the year of posting through

your federal indictment well that was the god damn news all right it's onto the extremely sketchily put together uh like posthet history of what is hacking a subject about which i know nothing i don't know anything about this either i used to know quite a bit about this when i was a kid but sure i forgot most of it i know embarrassingly little about this oh yes yes this is about we're gonna start with freaking yes yes yeah we are because framework of discussion about which we have no idea yes yeah it is it is the bullshit podcast i used to read 2600 leave me alone hell yeah you you are you are already doing more than i ever will uh so cyber security is is a portmanteau of two words cyber which

means on the computer and security which means security um and cyber security was invented when going on the computer was invented um but before we had the computer we had networks of stuff most obviously phones and that was how all of the shit ran was phone networks um including a lot of surprisingly vital infrastructure um and it all worked through tones and someone figured out that you could trick a phone system into thinking that it was off the hook and on the hook at the same time and thereby sort of get into lots of interesting places with a cat and crunch boson whistle uh which came in your pack of captain crunch and which emits a 2600 hertz and 2600 yep i like that they but you know they were like yeah kids know what a boson is right

very clear sort of structure of rank and captain crunch is almost i was about to say yeah cap captain crunch runs a tight ship this is this is all fashion navy shit right here yeah there was actually like there was a kid who like had perfect pitch and could just whistle his way into like AT&T systems and stuff there is a video of that and it's so fucking weird to watch and there's apparently also some people who trained their parrots to to be able to do dial tones and that's like even that's somehow even wilder like i would i think you could probably train a parent to do more advanced hacking now it's yeah you've bothered to try i should just train a parent to look for check and service for me that that is probably the move trying to hack with its tiny little like

claws yes adorable right um real real pecking at the keyboard you know what i mean yeah pecking on yeah so so yeah typing classes in high school really uh or in elementary school really really paid off you know i'd still do back but i'm faster than i was then uh something i am not a fast typist if that if that prices you know it should leave sort of a parrot bait um but the next step up from this was you mavis beacon like multifunction tone generator a blue box so called because they put it on a box and the box was blue and you could just do anything with that uh because it made a bunch of tones it was essentially just a fancy little sort of like audio keyboard um and uh weirdly enough the cool kids who made that the sort of like nerd orbiters of them were Steve

Wozniak and Steve Jobs um yeah and so that that that is why Steve Wozniak to this day is allowed to call himself a hacker without people rolling their eyes too hard in it yeah he was around while a guy whistled down a phone line and got into like AT&T servers or whatever um i that's that's all i had on phone hacking or freaking if you prefer yeah i think that is that is about the history of that that is relevant i mean there i think the more interesting thing is that like activism already kind of started out in that era like the whole idea of using hacking for activism things i don't know that specifics anymore but there was like a group that started out in the freaking times and stayed around for a little longer well all of these guys were like

pirate radio guys yeah and like working out of like you know vw vans and shit neat little freaks yeah yeah yeah for sure so of course it's a counterculture thing why wouldn't it be but then someone made the mistake of inventing the internet and we're kind of off to the races um yeah once once again a thing you can blame switzerland partially for cern you bastard putting putting two phone lines in the yeah had run unfortunately they send americans to switzerland and the internet wasn't that good what happened they put two computers together last for now to be fair we also had like we should yeah we don't have time to get into arpanet and all that stuff yeah we we taught the sand to think and then we taught the

sand to talk to itself um yeah but so i found a train i found a train connection which i was very proud of i was proud of myself for doing this uh because we like to do a little train we like we like trains yes um this is this is the tech model railroad club at mit um i had to find out a lot about mit in order to do this and i found out that i hate mit and it sounds terrible to go there like sort of nerd boot camp um yeah you can go there if you want to slave away for vc money um but you would still be better than nerds at caltech yeah apparently they do this thing on your first day like it's the marines where they're like look to the nerd to your left look to the nerd to your right one like only one of the three of you will will graduate the institute or whatever oh yes

that's uh that's an old engineering thing yeah you can't be a hard ass about that i mean i get that it's like you you're all child prodigies and you're gonna have to be like competitively graded for the first time no no they're gonna they're gonna run you through a whole bunch of these shitty weeder courses uh where you're gonna have to like memorize how to use a bomb caliber bomb calorimeter even though you're doing like computer engineering or in my case civil engineering like are you just gonna need to know this the title is the little ribbon they give you for graduating basic training you know um yeah uh it's it's it's worth noting uh we we covered part of this in the college episode but i i cannot say it enough i i'll die on this hill

undergrad doesn't matter you're the hard part which is getting in i go to temple university get kicked out of the draft horse have a ball i and then i don't know get a phd from a respectable institution fuck you or drop out of grad school like i did uh so just don't ever go to college like i did uh you can you can still make the u.s your enemy uh yeah but if if you had been uh maya and gone to college you could in fact leave switzerland yeah but also i would like work at facebook now and be a fucking loser oh yeah i'm gonna be here come for yourself i don't want to put it you could come for yourself with your like you know 200 000 dollar a second salary um so so unsurprisingly a lot of mit students who are into model trains

were also into computing um and most notably this this um tech model railroad club tmrc they had a signals and power subcommittee were trying to like automate all of their signals and were remarkably successful you could automate a train based off of like a computer and a cabinet um and there's ideology happening here because all of these guys are the same guys who are like working in the ai lab and you know thinking about things like our information wants to be free or like making up a bunch of computer slang that sounds dumb as hell but is still kind of in use if you're old enough uh like grocking shit or throbbing shit whatever i hate how i know this shit and i'm like too young for that stuff uh as long as you don't listen to uh as

long as you don't listen to stallman yes information wants to be great yeah yeah i just want to know what do you want that information for motherfucker um who makes these nice osgood bradley cars back here i don't know i don't know i don't want to be some loser at mit probably they just handcrafted those nice osgood bradley cars i don't know that looks very nice you know but the most abiding the most abiding piece of joke on tmrc is responsible for is um in mit sort of like to can a hack is like a prank or a practical joke thus hacker comes from these guys allegedly um it's the most probable etymology um but they're not the only ones like every college in the u.s had guys doing this stanford was the other big one they had seen tunnels baby lab um

but none of them had model trains apart from mit to my knowledge yeah so that's the train connection that's the train connection um but then you know the internet is becomes more of a thing people other than the military start using it for things other than you know sending packets to a van and back again uh next slide please oh my god i already like the notes here i just read the notes early and i was like hell yeah we're bringing up the best movie of all time kevin mitnick did nothing wrong no uh no okay okay we are not going to defend kevin mitnick here he's now it's like cringe and entrepreneur yeah i know that but i'm talking about the the prison conviction which was yeah but i i'm still one of those people who have a shitty sticker on their

laptop that's that laptop that says put kevin back uh which i don't i obviously don't agree with his conviction but also like what happened since then is kind of regrettable so he's a douchebag yeah you have to go back you have to go back it's i don't know who this person is okay so kevin mitnick is like the first famous hacker uh he went to jail a couple of times actually uh the first time off of wire fraud and the second time uh they had passed the computer fraud and abuse act in 1986 and so there was now like a federal offense of hacking which he was convicted of in i think 1995 it is interesting though how the us still uses wire fraud uh to convict hacking because that means they can stack more charges oh yeah because they can they cannot they can now give you cfa and

wire fraud and then multiple charges of wire fraud and very very uh 19th century legal institution you know it's not anyone's fault you fell for social engineering by your own i just love the concept of wire fraud which is literally just doing fraud over a wire that goes between two states that is pretty much the entire definition of wire fraud as to my understanding interstate power system that is that is so open to the point that i have a wire fraud charge for talking to a journalist who has written an article that has been written in the state of washington what yeah it's it's it's really some like nucky tomson shit that like the intent of a wire fraud charge is to catch the guy who's running like a a racket where he gets the horse racing results

a second earlier you know yeah by by the way the like whole the whole fraud bit is that i was selling merch so nice don't don't sell merch if you don't want to do fraud so so what kevin mitnick actually did to get this second charge was he uh he broke into some irs and social security systems and i think someone was like sun sun microsystems um and like on microsystems ruined my life well he ruined their shit back by pirating their software that's all he did he copied it he didn't alter anything he just copied it um however um like people knew so little about this that it was possible to like for for the feds amongst others to go this guy could start world war three doing shit and yeah what he was doing was he could dial into the norad modem or something

yeah yeah still he still calls himself the world's most famous hacker and that is like part of why he should go back uh but i will say the law enforcement case around him is in some insane bullshit oh absolutely i am not going out here i know cfa a conviction but like because it's a bullshit law in the first place but yeah i do recommend you read ghost in the wires uh and for no other reason than apparently it'll make maya unhappy most of what he did was what we would now call social engineering which is a fancy way of saying you call somebody and you say hey can you let me into the computer with some level of lying involved and they say yeah sure yeah to say it as the kids of today like me would say you just call someone with risk and ask them to let you into

their computer system yeah like you do the thing that millennials today find very difficult you call someone on the phone uh and you say oh i can't do that you can you can do social engineering over email or even over text messages you can social engineer someone on discord so you just you just don't worry you just lie you just go on the internet and you just lie and it's that easy because most people aren't expecting to be tricked and uh like particularly if they don't work for like something that they consider sensitive you can just be like yeah i i sell fucking servers what server do you use so i know what my competition is and they're like oh it's this one i guess uh yeah i'm currently being social engineered by a cat who's uh claimed to have never been fed in his

life yeah he's starving how could you do this you add a sleep monster so part of the reason why kevin mitnick is famous is because he did this sort of like poacher turned gamekeeper act where he's now a consultant but like he did sort of like mediators and i have a transcript before me oh yeah if if you have ever been at like a big especially us company and you have had to do really really bad fishing training you can you can find kevin mitnick for that uh the whole idea of bad fishing training is basically a thing because of him and his shitty company he's he's like a showman he's like uh in a very annoying way but on march the second 2000 he was called before the us senate committee on governmental affairs a bunch of guys who had no idea what the fuck a

computer was and senator fred thompson asked him incredulously so you can compromise a target without even using the computer and kevin mitnick said yes yeah yeah uh yeah i just i just find the idea of appearing in front of a senate and admitting to your ability to commit crimes really fine yeah he was like no i'm really i'm really good yes senator i'm really good at crime hey i'm under oath motherfucker you wanted me here i thought he was good at lying like he hyped himself up successfully enough that that sort of became the image of a computer hacker and we also go talk about the movie hackers in which yes yes yes the best movie ever was it fucking matthew broadreck i want to say yeah i mean

the the the the the the the funny thing about hackers i can tell a bit about that because it's one of my favorite movies and i find it important as a like a hacker culture thing uh the thing is the movie hackers at the time was like a very Hollywood idea of what hacking is uh so at the time everyone fucking hated it there's like a literally a page on the death con for uh like the biggest hacking conference basically they had like a whole page on we need to boycott this movie this movie fucking sucks and it's fast forward like a few years and basically that movie has now defined hacker culture so hollywood's just invented hacker culture in a movie that has angelina shully being the gayest she's ever been in any movie uh and also has matthew lillard being

a trans woman matthew lillard otherwise mostly well known for being scooby-doo uh so uh yeah incredible movie it is the most queer baity movie hollywood has ever produced and that's why i love it so much it's so trashy it mis-portrays hacking culture at the time but also then pioneered hacking culture and also the soundtrack just fucking back the division of a kill james bond episode is coming to me um i i mean i mean i am up any time for rambling about this movie for like hours so yeah uh if we go if we go next slide i have a sort of a us's impression of hacker sort of 1986 edition um not sure why he has a portrait of drill um that's an interesting one that that is that is for telling something right there is that drill or henry rollins or both

are they the same anyway next slide please um yeah so once people started thinking about hacking people started thinking about how you you know don't hack things or you stop things from getting hacked uh which leads to like the first commercial antivirus software and shit like that um i mostly just it's very difficult to find a compelling image for antivirus software so i put one of john McAfee's best at tweets i'm thinking like uh uh norton antivirus just like taking up half the screens and we we we blocked a thing uh yeah yeah i mean the first the first virus honestly honestly email yeah honestly john mckevill illustrates the the antivirus industry what way better than any actual like thing ever could because it's obviously this isn't this

ingenious industry because they depend on bad things happening so and also they have access to way too much of your computer so they can sell your data but more on that later i will say uh you know in a sort of more sympathetic note uh if you are interested uh you should look up temple os uh one of the most uh in my you know the the guy uh who wrote it was suffering from incredibly debilitating mental illness and i remember this yeah yeah slurs and a bunch of stuff from recorded videos uh he he i believe killed himself uh unfortunately but i highly recommend you sign her up as an operating system yeah right try to find uh a video on that i i hate to give them credit but linus tech tips did a relatively straightforward uh video about

computer makes you crazy yes uh in ways that we don't always expect but i would highly recommend that this guy built an operating system by himself which is yeah because god told him right possibly one of the most impressive feats of engineering technically possible there's there's there's like two two ways this can go when you sit down to the computer the good ending you become transgender the bad ending you you get the it's like you become like john mackafee and you go uh you know the the deep state is trying to kill me uh at my compound in el salvador where i've been giving aphrodisiacs to dogs also i'm trying to fuck whales maybe may also i will cut off my balls if bitcoin reaches the specific thing i'm predicting um i didn't cut off his balls

do that for free you know like an asshole he never did it even though he was still alive at the time hey ross do you want to know where his uh bachelor uh degrees from where where did he get his bachelor ronald college buddy ronald college wow yeah so i i guess can we can we talk about like the commercial cyber security industry and it's sort of like broadest sense oh no yeah because that's a thing right like that is the thing yeah you have you have both people who like just sell like what's basically snaggle which is like most of the antivirus industry at this point because you can never be on top of the game and it's easier to just sell the data you have access to than actually doing anything for your customers which is like the common theme of capitalist

it infrastructure anyways uh like i said more on that later but like how how am i gonna stop from like clicking on like uh you know line wire linkin park underscore hurt dot mp3 dot exe basically final dash do that use this one basically like the thing is like commercial antivirus can protect you fairly well from like the very broad like very broad and big campaigns that like the shit like that is that you find a line wire but as soon as we get to anything that is even just vaguely targeted at your organization or at you it obviously fails because like all of this like depends on detecting the very specific type of virus being used and if you are like for example a nation state and you're like well this person is kind of interesting

what if we hack them you are going to not use something that is getting detected by antivirus software because that would be fucking stupid uh so no no a pain for your McAfee license to intel which they own McAfee now uh will not protect you from russia hacking you if that's something you have paranoia about but also russia is most likely not going to hack you anyways so that's sort of that sort of leads me into my into my next slide which is the first of a couple i put up here about state actors and i wanted to talk about that through the prism of Stuxnet which is just i just want to i've just been imagining an alternate history where John McAfee went to work for the Norfolk and western railroad now that's all that's in my head right he's like

why are there any whales to fuck there of the locomotive talking about giving aphrodisiacs to dogs he's not even the weirdest dude in that cab yeah he's you know he's he's behind he's behind the uh the throttle of 611 you know i all right all right so i i wanted to talk about Stuxnet personally because i love stock images and this is a really good one i think it's an absolute banner yeah and because it's it's it was like i think the first example a lot of people had that like states were now doing what was then called hacking and what we're now supposed to call and i'll put an echo on this cyber warfare um yeah you call it cyber warfare if you work anywhere and like government consulting because if you do you need new buzzwords every five years so it's important

to swap them out i'm fucking reoccurring the battle space i'm right you know yeah i i i have i have clicked a couple buttons and i've done warfare i'm doing c2i star i'm you know any number i think this is getting even more interesting now that like with the ukraine war we have ended up with the point where like news media is talking about how anonymous is now doing cyber warfare so we have now reached this very new point where you can just be a random person on a computer and not affiliated with any government and you can apparently be doing warfare which is pretty cool i would say uh because now finally you can lift up your dreams and start war three like like heaven so i think bra's deploying a water cry the bible beer yeah so i i also enjoy stocks now for a

couple of reasons the ways in which it's sort of like elegant like uh you know getting into some fairly tailored to specific you'll tailor access to like uh you know fairly delicate industrial operations um it's center fissures right and they just made it over software the scardy yeah step seven uh and they used a forged uh credential from real tech i want to say yeah yeah yeah and they like got their way into like all sorts of companies in order to like pull this off uh and like have the fucking machines destroy themselves in a way that like you know happened relatively quickly but below the level where you would notice it too quickly because like it's really smart however the access that this was was hey just plug this weird flash drive into your work computer please

um yeah which is people are dumb i don't know what's doing this bro yeah i i don't know like that's the thing like human human error is always the easiest to exploit like like that that is part of why i'm all computer guys want to automate every single human and their vicinity is because they are fucking scared of you uh what if your hack was just a guy yeah what if your hack is just a guy that that is maybe that's a real thing the thing i find interesting about stuxnet is like how public it is despite it having been like a us israeli thing because in general whenever we talk about like we only talk about like the whole western perspective of oh russia and china are doing these evil things we would never do um it was just just the general thing

about like intelligence i guess but yeah uh yeah the us and israel together operate what's called an apt which is an advanced persistent threat which is a funny intelligence way of saying these people hack and they are good at it uh generally that is also like implies state affiliation the cool thing is that all the like groups and companies that classify apts happen to be american so there are no american apts so don't worry about it uh don't don't don't think about that too hard google equation group yeah yeah no they don't exist but like it is kind of interesting how westernized the whole like global image of security is which is why like the whole image of russian hacker is the thing in the first place it's just because somehow like cyber security is so westernized

across like a lot of the globe uh it's just because like a lot of the industry is in the us or israel like that's just how that happened somehow and because yeah we love we love a global hegemon don't we folks yeah we we we we love to pretend that the us would never do offensive hacking like there's generally people like in the infosec community who somehow believe that the us wouldn't do offensive hacking which is incredibly funny to me because like if there is if there's one thing the us knows how to do it's like doing weird offensive intelligence shit it's it's kind of let me have the example of stuxnet we have some other examples but most of the time if you bring up a thing and are like lol the us might have done that everyone's like no are you stupid they would

never do this which like how like and that's also what like the us does really well in all public statements related to state hacking from russia and stuff they pretend they very explicitly use words like cat and mouse game where they pretend russia is like hunting them or something uh and and the us is like helplessly uh there and like russia is just towering over them which is like the classic case if we need to pretend our enemy is both really strong and also extremely weak if i we had some kind of like readily comprehensible metaphor for some kind of like spy against spy conflict yeah what if uh it horror horrors um you know putin finds joe biden's email address and sums about an email that says uh is your refrigerator running like and then i find that at whitehouse.gov

that's what i find so interesting about when the whole like pegasus stuff started coming out and everyone pretended like oh oops it is an accident that the west also used this oopsie that just kind of happened we were only going and then the whole pretending of like western media where they were like oh look these evil governments used that but this should only be used by like the us hunt terrorists which is a good thing by the way uh but if anyone else hunts their political problems that's not worried about tailored access operations they're not gonna have your say i never did i have one of their challenge coins it's beautiful it's got a big spider web on it it's a weird shape anyway so yeah um also i i feel as if the the ukrain war really led to a

sort of like mask dropping in both the us and russia where they went sort of like overnight in a way that only governments can really do from being like what are you crazy no we don't we don't hack people to yeah grow up of course we hack people we've been doing it for years and it's good that we do um yeah i feel part of that was just because somehow in the us suddenly every single info that um guy was on twitter begging the cia to let them hack russia when they could just be doing that if they felt like it like you can't just do hacktivism you know but they were all like yeah we want to do this and they were literally like at cia uh the can we please do this also can you please uh let us smoke weed while working for the cia otherwise we are not doing this

and you still have like the there was the other day there was this funny twitter friend with like the nsa cyber security the president guy who somehow info sac twitter really likes because he posts memes sometimes uh which that obviously redeems him uh but like but like he someone like was like oh no you're kind of a shit employer he was like no the nsa is actually a really diverse diverse employer and then someone replied okay but what if i wanted to smoke weed and then he was like yeah well there is that i guess and the fact that he even like publicly commented on that was really funny to me there was also that one like he sometimes gets mad at shit posts about the nsa which i find incredibly funny for a president of any area of the nsa to go on twitter to discourse

people over specific definitions of nsa words i i had another slide here which i just kind of threw and basically at random which is since we were talking about like state actors and like stuff that trickles down from them i want to talk about ransomware a bit because that's one of the things where we like do have state actors denying it like every so often you'll just be like oh yeah your country's like postal system or like health record system whatever doesn't work for a week i don't know why probably is ransomware they didn't actually ask for any money but we assume um yeah which is strange i would say um but this is like an outgrowth of like um fuck i don't even know if it is an outgrowth of that i don't know what i was gonna say with this

i should have i should have planned this slide like a transit systems got got by this right yeah yeah like they get various shit i feel like the thing i always find interesting about ransomware is how this is always like the allegation of this is all orchestrated by russia and sometimes north korea sometimes korea yeah but the main reason people accused them of this is because oh these ransomware groups never go after russia like why would you go after a country you're hosted in like that's just why would you go after a country that a has you know increasingly little money and b if you take their money are likely to like throw you out of a window and then say yeah it's very depressed all of a sudden you obviously have bigger chances of not getting in

trouble with your government if you don't fuck with your government and i feel like a surprising amount of the fucking like not sec adjacent info sec community doesn't want to understand that and i'm not here like to defend ransomware groups a lot like most of them are like really shitty obviously they sometimes sometimes the cool thing is because like most of this is now gone from just demanding money to script files to extortion where they're like if you don't pay we are going to release all your company files which the interesting side effect this has is that this has led to some really important documents being published via ransomware groups which is like yeah so which has also led to like more things of them choosing politically interesting targets instead of

just like random targets that would pay because now if you have a company where you know they are in shit and you threaten them with releasing all their documents they are much more likely to pay if it's just some random flower shop doing like actual like targeted blackmail yeah bro but maybe some of this stuff should be on paper so like that is also like one of the main reasons they're being accused of being state actors but i feel like that just makes sense because people stopped paying when it was all just about decrypting files so they had to elevate because like you obviously want to get paid for as much of what you do as possible and this way they also got way more promo because obviously anyone interested in like files of interesting companies will tweet

about this ransomware group offering that up so yeah like that has kind of changed the landscape but that does also get them raided way more often by like funny police units such as the ukrainian cyber police which actually exists they release funny press photos where they for example blur the fucking capri sun bottles for some reason and but at the same time don't blur any of the faces of their agents so i'm like what are you trying to hide here exactly well they get the secret capri suns from like yeah it's like in the us some some of these documents maybe they should be on paper this is relatively easy to guard paper you know yeah you know maybe instead of having it on a computer attached to the internet you put it on you put it in a box

and then you put it in a corner two slides away first i will be back in a sec i need to get myself water incredible uh yes well the guest has never done that before the rest of us before i know it's surprising um i don't know good guest though this is true yes i had a nice time hi it's justin uh so this is a commercial for the podcast that you're already listening to uh people are annoyed by these so let me get to the point we have this thing called patreon right the deal is you give us two bucks a month and we give you an extra episode once a month uh sometimes it's a little inconsistent but you know it's two bucks you get what you pay for um it also gets you our full back catalog of bonus episodes so you can learn

about exciting topics like guns pickup trucks or pickup trucks with guns on them the money we raise through patreon goes to making sure that the only ad you hear on this podcast is this one anyway that's something to consider if you have two bucks to spare each month join at patreon.com forward slash wtyp pod do it if you want or don't it's your decision and we respect that back to the show it's just in just us and the feds hey guys yeah are you doing anything with my application yeah leon what's up

back you know it's kind of exciting i'm not the feds are you implying that i'm the feds no i was implying that i was trying to be the feds i think uh no i guess yeah else is also the feds i'm the only no i'm the only holy person here it's worse it's like i'm not the feds i'm like aspirational about the feds join the postal police well i mean yeah a hundred percent if they gave me like a postal a postal badge yeah fuck yeah do that in a second yeah actually 98% conviction ready to trial no thank you yeah i i feel like they don't bring charges to too many people yeah i genuinely ended up having to have like a nuance for you on the postal inspection service and i was like well two things on on the one hand they are surprisingly under like misattributed

contributed to the war on drugs on the other hand they did basically make it so that you couldn't send child pornography in the mail anymore so that's good just you know land of contrasts i guess yeah i don't necessarily agree with the the drug stuff uh the like non-stuff you know that was pretty good uh you know you gotta enforce the enforce the set of laws you're given i i unfortunate well i mean it's the same thing like because in in you know the 50s and 60s they were going off to fucking Betty Page in Irving Claw because you know that's that's obscenity law in the right right uh so give me your haste code all right i am back nice all right i had had one last slide in that little history of hacking which is before we get into the the

really fun stuff which is russian hackers your nemesis and mine um how scared should we be of the russian hacker should we be shitting and pissing ourselves constantly yeah like i already kind of brought this up but i feel like in a lot of cases you should probably be more scared of like your own country's intelligence hacking you than like russia because like you are most likely not in any way important to russian intelligence or just russians in general i don't know yeah unless you're like going in on like sort of like buying a mining company yeah on like the enise or you are a russian dissident who has been exiled like you know like if you are just going to be a random target of a random cyber attack you are probably about as likely to get hacked by a guy from russia

as you are to get hacked by a guy from anywhere else uh though like there is a lot of eastern european hackers but a lot of that is just because of the economic situation there and that being a thing that is only like questionably like handled like like i don't know a lot of people make at russian hackers as a thing of like oh these people work for the russian government when we get just a case of them not really having the resources to go after hackers who don't do anything that the country will be interested in so like as long as you don't touch the cis which i still find funny that it's called cis uh you are pretty fine if you're in eastern europe and doing any hacking things which like as i brought up with the ransomware thing that that that is why these

groups don't go after any anything in that area um we'll say these these russian guys are very good at modding video games i have yeah yeah they are they are also very good about having french political opinions on twitter apparently oh but yeah it's like a 100 percent like a 14 year old macedonian teenager who like has an ideology that only exists in the new order mod for hearts of iron yeah no i just meant like the thing of like if you are a liberal in the u.s and someone on the internet saw it says something you don't like you can't just call them russian that will work that will definitely shorten that just call them a bot or russian and that will make their political ideology go away don't worry about it on the other hand i guess we have seen that like you can

pose a threat to liberalism with a little bit of like state action in the right places even if it is just john podesta to click on a link that says you know click here for free hard drive cleanup yeah absolutely i just find the idea that like random weird like blue mug twitter accounts are getting harassed by random russian guys who are somehow angry at them for liking kamala harris all right well i guess i don't know you can just have an actual leftist political opinion on twitter and people will call you a bot for it because they're easier than confronting the fact that people actually have cooler opinions than so having having thus dismissed their bad guys i think it's now time for us to talk about our bad guys next slide please extremely low resolution

slide i'm a russian but that guy is real oh you know the laptop's good because there's a vga port so we now get to uh so say you're on the computer you as a citizen of sort of like a western european country or the united states something like that you want to like store stuff on the computer what do you want to store on the computer i mean posts um holiday we love posting uh by using that downloads porno porno i use the download like my whole furry porn collection i'm just doing use that one yes um by contrast um i have a lot of pictures of trains yeah nice uh by contrast what what might people want to store about you on their computers with or without your knowledge and i submit that the answer that is everything everything everything because you can either you think you can sell it

in a five year and we've talked about this a lot on trash teacher like this urge towards big data and trying to develop the stuff to like pass huge data sets and exploit them um because you know yeah i i brought i brought this up on another podcast the other day but like the whole idea of big data is the new oil the fact that like weird consultants had to phrase it that way for like company owners to make sense to them it's really funny to me because like what what what does that mean means payment doesn't yeah i i love bus words i i just love like like mech can see bus words or whatever yeah i mean i i guess like unless we want to do just one thing of we just have everything on paper i kind of i concede that to live in society somebody's gonna have to put something

about you on the computer some of the time yeah ideally that will be on your own computer but we came up with this cool idea that is called the cloud and doesn't have anything to do with weather and definitely doesn't have anything to do with it being cheaper it's just cooler to also steal your data in that way yeah it's like if if you recall back to information wanting to be free if if we can say information wants anything when these people are operating it what information wants is to be fucking piled together with a bunch of other information and collateralized i i think i think i think one of the best recent examples of like data on like clouds not really being in any way protected is that google randomly decided that wait we are gonna start

scanning google drive for any copyrighted materials and taking them down even in your personal google drive which is the most google move possible to free up storage and also yeah a very and has like many interesting implications for things such as archival because yeah it's so funny to be like i need to free up some disk space i'm gonna invent the panopticon yeah i think also like just the idea that like yeah this this solves any sort of problem like the whole idea of moving storage away from the user when and at the end of the day you just have more copies of the data which is obviously the actual like thought process behind it especially because now you can give those copies to the u.s government who has been begging you for disability

for 15 years but yeah i i guess if i can apply some theory here a very dangerous thing to do i i would suggest that this sort of imbalance in data and knowledge about that data and access to that data and privacy uh reflects an imbalance in society one that a guy with a big beard uh wrote about you know a long time ago um and it's it's getting easier and easier to hold more data about more people and more ways and then getting easier to exploit that data and sell that data and you know do fun things with that data the convenience of having your light switch connected to the internet also also that is a good moment to bring in the reminder to people that if you have if you have a a ring uh doorbell please smash that thing because the cops the cops

can access the camera on that thing without a warrant and they will do that if anything vaguely bad happens in your neighborhood if your neighbor has a ring camera please also smash that uh just because they have microphones that pick up things in like a 25 meter range so if you are standing on your porch and talking your neighbor's ring camera will pick that up and the cops can just access that via some funny little collaboration with the police because amazon loves cops and also just the fact that chef bezos could just like look up your conversations probably if you felt like it but what's really interesting to me is that it makes people complicit with it like that's one of the things that people love ring cameras because they love being cops they love

you're like i am gonna find the motherfucker who took my package and as someone who recently had a package taken i am gonna i am every cop in the world right i just i i place info in every other package yeah i mean i guess you're taking this microbe or shit to the next level yeah yeah i i feel like a good rule of thumb is that like every computer is a cop right if you type something into a computer you are typing it to a police officer but some are more cops than others and a ring doorbell is like 20 cups use cubes you idiots also i feel like that this this scary thing about the ring stuff is that like with for like a year now or so it has kind of become a meme to just post videos of people doing weird shit in front of your house door online which is obviously already

a massive problem privacy device but like people are like pretty actively buying ring cameras to make fun of their neighbors on twitter for clout and that's kind of fucked up and i don't know what that says about society but we sure do live in one i guess the other thing is one of the big advantages of big data is all the great ads you get served now they're so good they're very interest yeah such as for me it's largely global intermodal shipping which i do a lot of course yeah i for a while have been constantly on twitter getting uh like mining ads from glen car and i'm like shout out swiss mining company glen car i am going to buy fucking raw materials now and it's very cool that you have a very very diverse office team that is abusing people in the global south

i need 11 000 tons of iron ore right now so short of short of going ted kazinsky mode right there is no way to opt out of this is that because if you if you just exist in society yeah you have a spill some days around yeah you can't even if you don't own any devices or anything you are like existing around people that are in a way surveilling you for both corporations and the government and i'm not telling you to beat up people around you because they are not like they're just complete they are just complicit in this there isn't really any way to like opt out of any of this even though like the EU is trying is pretending that we can't uh but yeah we really can't i guess i i think the thing that's happening and maybe i'm being too optimistic here

i don't know if this is a good thing or not but i think there has been kind of a generational shift in how we view privacy in that people my age and younger i'm 31 for the record uh don't think that we have any um yeah i don't yes i don't know i feel like i feel like in a way that's that though because it's a very demerist view of the world at the end of the day like it's a very defeatist view to be like well we don't have any privacy so why try because like that's kind of where it ends up a lot yeah it's just giving up and the defeatist idea of like well that's just how it is i guess i feel like in a way it would be nicer like i'm not trying to go back to the idea of while i'm just not going to use a phone and then i'm going to be secure but like i feel like actually

trying to fight for getting at least some privacy back will be nice but i think the key the key is basically to like have something in your life that you just don't post about like yeah do do whatever you want and then just don't post about the one thing you know um but you know take up playing the guitar buy a guitar and cash at a store and then like never be photographed with it yeah have have your secret guitar in your secret guitar safe house that's that's that's the move secret guitars um i don't get a model railroad don't post pictures of it yeah i'm for all you know all of us could have secret model railroads um yeah that's what actually brings this podcast together it's the secret model railroad that's right that's right this is activism uh in a very

real way um but i i put in just a couple of examples of um like big data in action and it's a kind of a cheap what why does the prison resemble the what the the university thing and the answer is because this is what a big data center looks like but i think it's funny anyway so next slide please we had a we had a render of facebook's utah data center um where they store all of your like families posts about how there's going to be climate lockdowns and do you remember when the bin man was hard those all live here yeah and like the happy cheery posts about how like someone's grandma just died of cancer and because they don't know how facebook rates they somehow put like the smiley like laughing laughing emoji yeah yes yes the old you want musk interesting yeah my grandma

just died interesting um so i mean this this this ties to the thing that we said earlier which is that you know the cloud is just other people's computers well all of those computers live in places like this yeah mostly in the middle of nowhere in the us and if you are you can just turn them off and twitter will have fall apart but you can pat yourself on the back for safety money uh but also what we have most important to learn from musk is that you also don't have to pay your rent no you just opt out of it hit the bricks you know it doesn't apply to anyone interested in your employees and not you so it is fine actually true yeah he's gonna make them all move to austin where the hell it is he lives now christ the other thing i would say about this is

that like most of this is data that like even if you are unusually astute about computers you probably do not know that facebook has about you yeah also oh yeah a lot of this is a culture ask ask companies for the data they have on you they should at least if you live in the EU or a country that US companies think is in the EU like switzerland we are not in the EU you can just request your data by now you can mostly also do it if you're in the US but it's probably hidden a little more because they're not as scared about getting fined over it but request data from companies like facebook and google and and everyone else because it is very interesting to see what these companies know about you or think they know about you yeah god help you if you've ever had your DNA

sequence for 23 or something like that no oh god no oh yeah you can tell those companies not to share their shit because they also love to share with cops that's how like year-long that's why i did it that's why i did 23 in me is because i don't like my extended family and i wanted to see if anything was serial killers at a girl hey you are going to find out you are a serial killer oh fuck shit what if my secret hobby i didn't tell anyone was about was serial killing jesus yeah i mean that would be a good hobby not to tell anyone about so nothing wrong with killing people morally yeah i mean ask the government they do it all the time they do it all the time next next slide please for my cheap my cheap gimme this is uh the national security

agencies utah data center i i love the pictures you chose because it does just look like the same thing from a different angle yeah it looks like one of those you know those greek houses they don't finish the house because then they don't have to pay property taxes yeah that's what this looks like i this is just what it looks like when you build a building to keep a bunch of servers cold but like uh this is the same thing like architecturally structurally it's probably better guarded but uh and like they probably have a bunch more guns here yeah they will shoot you have a second quicker yeah not the facebook one should be a tilt up but but the thing is the thing is a lot of like company data centers including like facebook and stuff they also have armed guards that guards

that are allowed to shoot you so uh that that is something to keep in mind just because it's not killed by the facebook just because just because it's the nazi government doesn't mean they can't shoot you and i really i got an idea for the next live show everybody you'd think i was building real easy with a tornado um yeah well i mean i mean i mean the thing with all these data centers is that they're always redundant there is at least like two others of these and for the nsa one we probably don't even really know where they are uh but there is always multiple of these so if one goes out because tornadoes happen or like a flood or a cold thing or like even musk decides to turn it off because it's feeling like it things will generally keep working mostly more or less

we made the computers too survivable because we designed the computers to survive nuclear war and they and now they survive elon musk which is very annoying um but like the only difference with uh with intelligence data is that like definitionally you don't know that someone has that data about you yeah and the nsa does do a lot more surveillance than like like they do surveil most internet traffic it's just that they store it somewhere and they don't look at it but but yeah so like various ways of like searching through it or like you know and and also i should say partnering with like most other intelligence agencies in the world um this is a thing that gchq is great for because famously all internet traffic through the uk is radioactively surveilled because

we have no civil rights protections whatsoever about the same same in switzerland where they even gave them more permissions for online surveillance we have like basically the prevent act even just just even worse where now you can get 12 year olds house arrest for a post they made on facebook um without without a warrant um but which is great and the the UN human rights council loved it which is why everyone voted for it um anyways yeah right side side around about swiss direct democracy and and and manufactured consent over uh just marching down to the town square with my like 600 year old halberd to do a like vote by a show of hands as to whether or not we should do this i don't know what a computer is i don't even think we should let women vote um you know

none of the women showed up that day this has been the app and sell jokes out um yeah so i mean gchq and and and the nsa also if you if you want a bunch more app and sell jokes basically any joke an american would make about alabama also applies to app and sell just so you can enhance your repertoire with some incest jokes uh thank you wow yeah um very very good cheese attacked by a pizza boy um yeah i also just wanted quickly to talk about the weird symbiotic relationship between for example because it's the one i know best gchq and nsa where like the nsa has like whatever it is yeah the five eyes where nsa has like certain restrictions constitutionally on like how many americans yeah you just surveil the other the other governments your partners with

so you can ask them for them yeah you call them and you go can you can you do this guy for us and we'll do this guy for you um you know you you escape each other's regular regulation completely yeah it's it's great i i love the international intelligence community where's the shadow government when you need it um yeah so yeah do we have anything fun to say about intelligence before we move on to our second to last slide that i put together i feel like that's it yeah right i'm pretty unintelligent so uh next slide please then uh and i got a beautiful stock image of this one well i i i raise a couple of questions here this is i throw this open to discussion for the group first question do eat any of these people facebook the nsa gchq you know snapchat whatever

use all of this data they have responsibly no absolutely not i am a non-state actor and i have always used data responsibly so you have at least one person is using it responsibly you eat you it's not me but it's not you either mother fucker non-state actor would be a pretty good bio i might change mine to that um further question they have all this data do they know how to stop other people from getting at it in general i wouldn't know anything about that no there's one pokemon cat that there's there's the funny little thing about how it's always cheaper to pay after a breach happens than paying for not having it happen in the first place uh especially now that in the world of unlimited capitalism we have fucking cyber insurance you

can get insured for getting hacked in the future you you don't even have to worry about that bit anymore um yeah no it's always cheaper to not give a shit about getting hacked until you get hacked which applies to like all things corporations can budget for uh so yeah nice ideally you have better crisis communications prepared than this local airline data especially since within like three months they got hacked twice apparently a ransomware group got them in November already and they still didn't know how to do communications about this but uh yeah let's let's say for the sake of argument right that we suddenly all become libs right like me okay and we go it's good for the government to like have data because the government is nice and they're my friend and

they're gonna use it to help me um how would we fix cyber security if we wanted to is it possible to do that is it possible to like store this much data securely if we wanted the absolute liberal approach to it it's just then you find companies really heavy sums so it gets cheaper for them to care about this stuff in the first place than to care about it later hell yeah massive regulation there will be the Lib approach is to just be like if a company gets hacked ever they have to tell the whole world about it and also pay like one billion in fines and that is the Lib solution to hacking is you just find companies for getting hacked while obviously while obviously also punishing hacking more strictly because that is important because hackers that are also

bad people inherently you could also um appoint very competent people such as Robert Mueller to prevent hacking uh to certain panels think of his uh think of his suit his drip yes yeah you're pulling the very direct on people because hackers are also dripped out serious people yeah i i believe in robert moeller and the rule of law yeah i i wonder if the solution is basically i mean i think we should have abolished the cia a long time ago sure i i don't i don't really know what the solution looks like other than but i don't think you can trust state actors to to do this sort of shit no i don't i feel like the thing is that there isn't really a solution that's what i was getting at yeah like like you can't solve it you could like you cannot

best create incentives which is the most liberal solution to anything ever um yeah but you could like give companies incentives to at least fix like all the low-hanging fruit issues that so far have been cheaper to just not give a shit about uh but that will just fix like that will not fix russia uh like fix all the access points russia has into your american computer systems that are very fragile uh but yeah i don't think there is like an actual solution like because i did think about it when we were talking before like in the days before this i didn't think about it because like even like this is a problem where like a lot of why currently data isn't secure is like the answer to your question is like capitalism and it's cheaper to not give a shit but at the end of

day you can't really fix most issues either if you are not motivated by capital it's just that computer systems are inherently not secure if you network them and the solution is to just stop making the sand think i guess go back to paper we're doing it we've got there again yeah we are now at the paper solution or alternatively make your network cables more richer um yes next slide please my last my last slide um which sort of i i feel like we've already answered but was just purely to be like can we can we like imagine a society um where we are good at this where we're like we this is more of a benefit than it is a hazard i feel like i feel like if anything we can imagine a world where most of the data that could be stored on shared computer

system that our network wouldn't matter if it were public because it were like half public data anyways uh as in like just government data or whatever where like we should have access to it anyways because like that is all the most well-guarded computer secrets is like weird shit the government doesn't want people to know because they are doing shit no one wants them to do uh and ideally they wouldn't be doing that shit so i don't know i feel like that is kind of the thing and also like you wouldn't need to have i i feel like a lot of like the thing is that um the whole idea of having everything in like a cloud and network is a very capitalist idea that doesn't really make sense in the same way in a non-capitalist system communism you would put all of this on one enormous

computer um yes i feel like the whole idea of you not owning your own data is a very capitalist idea that makes sense unless you have another authoritarian state in which case that authoritarian state would obviously also have an interest in some central authority owning all your data but yeah just to bring up anarchist inside me uh i can i can i can get really annoying with this i can be like i can hoist this cool pissy yellow and black flag i found and be like well what if what if i owned my own data so much i could like market it myself and like trade it what if i could sell my data you just invented nft uh yeah yeah well we got the safety third great presentation out thank you i i believe the solution is to replace the internet with a series of fax machines

and then it looks like your communications product i'm not gonna say it's a great slideshow but i do think it was great in terms of it i managed not to make it last five hours this time uh safety hello alice ross liam brackets yay liam end brackets and devon who is not on his call did not mention the guest did not mention the guest who was here get fucked damn yeah i'm leaving bye transphobic swiss phobic this is the tale of my first landlord we'll we will be calling cunt oh that is what we should be calling all mom if you listen to this i didn't say the word ross said the word you can't get mad at me

it's it's it's fine and ready or like is this brisket or like australian is my question that's a good question i'm not sure i i believe the the black and decker chainsaw which will be relevant later um i guess this is a hedge clipper yeah militates towards brisket uh after being forced out of uni dorms and into the hell that is the private rental market we moved into cunt's property then discovered it was constructed out of mold that's mold with a u so yeah british instead of bricks that's unfortunate this caused a problem with the plank of mdf supporting the bath i'm not sure what mdf is mdf is like thin it's like an engineered wood okay that that's what i thought yeah what does it fucking stand for medium density fiberboard

medium density fiber that shouldn't be structural it's only holding up a bath it's fine i hold on a second i i have a cat on my shoulder who is attempting to rip his flaw out of my clothing okay there we are the housing stock in this country is genuinely it is this bad yes this caused the problem with the plank of medium density fiberboard supporting the bath which is disintegrated and caused the bath to start leaking oh boy better leaking than coming through the sloy you know cunt decided that this was our fault he put some shitty glue over the leak tried to take our deposits and demanded a grand on top to cover the replacement threatened to sue us if we didn't comply we responded fuck you we're going to arbitration

getting a get a fucking plumber before the bathroom falls into the kitchen more than reasonable yes the arbitrator decided we had a point about the house being rotten to the core so we'd merely have to split the cost with cunt we celebrate thanks so much thank you thanks yeah we celebrated the half win and not getting sued a few weeks later the ceiling of the kitchen collapsed because the new bath was also installed incorrectly gotta to cunt's mate who reckons he's a plumber oh they love to get their mate or then fucking like yeah they're always plumbers if you're a landlord you have like someone in your family who's the plumber that's just an alleged plumber self-identified plumber yeah yeah i'm a sort of a transmedicalist

but for plumbers you've got to show me some fucking documentation on that shit sorry we're extremely lucky that this happened at night since if any of us had been in there and hadn't been killed by the initial collapse the fungal pneumonia would have claimed us shortly thereafter oh yeah that starts the fucking last of us pandemic right there yeah all but one of us had gone for gone home for the summer leaving one girl with a major stress related heart condition awoken by the sound of what she assumed was a break in we're lucky her heart didn't just stop jesus now cunt paid the repairs on that one good for him but this isn't the but this isn't the story i want to tell this is all set up to make this rare positive

safety third taste even sweeter as we moved out cunt was impressed enough with how well we cleaned the place up that he couldn't find a reason to steal our deposit for that year and offered me six quid an hour to help him with maintenance on his properties and i agreed because i had a crippling magic the gathering addiction defeat pretty pretty certain that's below minimum wage uh definitely is bad to say as six six quids definitely below minimum wage in the united states i i mean we have this we have this weird thing where you like we have a lower minimum wage if you're like under 25 because we hate children and the youth that seems very stupid yeah it is don't worry we get we have exemptions for disabled people which could well take

takes advantage of oh yeah wow it that's respectively the most british and most american thing i've heard in a minute yeah after a couple of days of lecturing me about how thatcher was great and how carbon will lead me astray he told me to trim some hedges behind a shed and handed me one of these picture black and decker hedge trimmer yeah i have nightmare flashbacks to these my dad just hacking out every bush in my backyard badly and these things are so fucking loud they are unbelievably so like they do not look like a loud thing this is like the loudest sound you will ever hear yeah i had no experience or training using a hedge trimmer well you know you get it from walmart i mean it's black and decker and i could barely reach

the tall hedges so i took it slow my safety first approach pissed him off so he took the job into his own hands oh no lines are doing work that is always scary yeah 30 seconds later i hear it crack and a scream followed by cunt rushing out from behind the shed with blood pouring from one of his fingers he had gone too fast lost his grip and now he could see the bone of his finger fuck me fuck no he was lucky he didn't cut clean through using my very limited first aid knowledge i want to go get some vodka and a clean rag to disinfect the flow provided by justin rastriak no this is the level of first aid landlords deserve i'm sorry yeah honestly vodka is too good for a lot yeah to which he screamed objections

where you would wouldn't you i then told him to raise his arm above his head and get his car keys so i could drive him to the hospital he ignored me he wrapped it in a dirty oily rag and told me to call his wife to pick him up because even having nearly lost a digit there's no way in hell he was letting me drive his Porsche yeah but i can't yeah if you understand that Alice it took longer for her to just arrive than it would have for me to get him to the a and ampersand semicolon e um which i assume is an emergency accident an emergency yes uh the last interaction i had with cunt was him forcing a bloodstained handful of 20s into my hands as his wife dragged him into the car i got off work early that day with a full day's pay join a renter's union join

a renter's union and fucking don't like i mean do if you want let landlords operate power tools because they will discipline themselves like a disobedient a disobedient yakuza do let do let landlords operate power tools but not while you're around or you might have to take responsibilities if this is this person tried to take responsibility he wouldn't let him yeah just like i'm not gonna hold it over my head because fuck you like that's the ultimate level boomer spite is like no i will bleed out of my fucking finger before i let you tell me millennial yeah remember i would rather die than let you touch my part yes incredible that's a good safety that it's been a minute since i have one that good yeah that's a very good

thing yeah thanks for not making me want to throw up this time well for a minute there but i'd at least my yeast is a red drop otherwise i would use that instead of this um our next episode will be on chernobyl does anyone have any commercials before we go yeah my if the people want more my way can they find you okay so i am on twitter on at underscore nine crime you they have suspended me a few times so uh yeah if i am not on twitter anymore you can also find me online at maya.crimeu.k which has all my links and stuff where you can find me if i have to make a new twitter account for some weird reason because they don't like me too much on that website yeah can i can i just say you have the best web design in the business oh yes yes i

just wanted to add add um a uh uh what should we call it a uh a caveat to that if the people want more maya but other than feds yeah yeah they have unfortunately sent to my local cops to my house before so oh my god imagine imagine being like a swiss like a beat call which is yeah the funniest thing i think is that for the first time in their entire life our local police force was able to answer to press requests from fucking bloomberg because um that the day i got raided i knew that i needed to like make sure that i am the one telling their narrative and not the us uh so within two hours of getting raided i called up my mate at bloomberg i was like whoa i got raided uh so like a broken by a bloomberg uh which is always funny uh but yeah i think the funniest thing about

when i got raided was when the computer forensics guy of the cops told me that uh so this is not very official right now but by the way what he did was pretty cool uh so you so you know how motivated the local cops were during that entire raid and doing work for the us which switzerland famously loves doing work for other governments uh we are very pleased about doing work for random to be fair we do do that but it depends on like what there is for us to get yeah uh the greatest you don't have to head it to him on many occasions but watching uh us marshals frog march uh sep sep bladder out of a hotel room in cirq oh yeah absolutely no i i i didn't mean to defend switzerland with that it's just a twist switzerland only gives a shit about the us if there's something for us

to gain because switzerland is neutral and by that what we mean by that is that we will do anything you want as long as you pay us uh so i have my gold bag please uh so you will have to you can take under the bundes house and burn and it's somewhere there thank you um all right if you're just trying to you're just trying to get him to dig an extra bear pit never know you're gonna do one um yeah all right my thanks so much for coming on yeah my thanks for coming on and get me on whenever you want to talk more about computers which i wouldn't recommend but uh yeah absolutely now we'll do we'll have a new podcast policy everyone needs to have a federal indictment to be a guest i'm so happy to be on here every month

all right thanks everybody have a good night bye i think that was the podcast