Well There‘s Your Problem - Episode140: Helios Airways Flight 522

Episode Date: September 1, 2023

spooky scary ghost plane donate to people's fund of maui: https://www.eifoundation.org/peoples-fund-of-maui/ we're doing a live show on the 12th of september at Franklin Music Hall! tickets here: https://www.axs.com/events/496996/well-there-s-your-problem-tickets/promos/630354?skin=fmh Our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/wtyppod/ Send us stuff! our address: Well There's Your Podcasting Company PO Box 26929 Philadelphia, PA 19134 DO NOT SEND US LETTER BOMBS thanks in advance in the commercial: Local Forecast - Elevator Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/

Has an input which I never use because I use my my Scarlet to record and work and we're going Can't rise what I know what I got me I got new headphones I just push the button. I know you did I got like very fancy headphones Because you know they are yeah legitimately a work expense. You know, it's good to have good headphones to monitor but the Metzzi like like, Emmy Zetti. Oh, no, no, no, like, super, super expensive ones, the classic ones, the wood ones.

109s or 99s? I think they're just called like something classics. But I got a pair of those. And the like impedance on the board ever is like, literally it's like 32 arms. So you can just run them without anything. There's like a cellphone. I, I, I, I, I, I see you are, I know you are also a

dank part. That's right. And I don't have the money or the Australian clout to just get a free pair of like $1,500 headphones. But I do have the money thanks to the patrons to get the entry level nice headphones. Because the audio technic is the ear cups, I had just like, I'd had them for like five years, and I don't know what's wrong with me, man, but like something is wrong with the sides of my head because the ear cups have like shredded. Oh, it's not that big ass brainy yours. Oh, thank you.

Liam, you sound a little quiet. That's because I turned my game down to try and be nicer because I keep getting down-vexed. Oh, wow. I was trying to be helpful to Devon, but instead, I'm just gonna blow up my levels and make them deal with it when they're back from vacation. I'm sure they'll love that.

Yeah, sorry, Dev. Hi, I hope you had a great trip. I cannot recommend the Master up the Sennheiser 6X X's enough. I really like them. We have we have Coo'd Roz, there will be no discussion of what you see on your screen. This is headphone chat for the next seven and a half hours. Oh my God. Yeah, for instance, I got the the Sony noise-canceling like in in is and those are the things I can hear myself So one of us needs to get better headphones. I am using openbacks. God, all right damn after all this

Yeah, I think so I'm in I'm just gonna keep talking. I may have mentioned this, I got the Sony in A1s for when I'm like out and around and I'm normal in public now, so that's cool, worth it. I own, I, I am somewhat of a, your page on dollars goes towards scotch and headphones listeners. I think we just cut all of it. Your your pay to your dollars goes towards scotch and headphones listeners. I think I think we just cut cut all of this. No, we're gonna leave it. I mean what we should do is just have the audio beamed directly into our brains. Do you do your skull? Do that like jaw, like conductive, yeah for sure. Yeah. Oh the bone conductive headphones have freaked me out. Yeah. Get you. Get you like gray massive. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, get your end of the ring. Grey massive. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They kind of, it's weird because they have this very strange quality to them. But it's, it's very, very useful if you have, you know, problems with your actual ears, because then you don't need to use them to hear.

Yeah, you can just like, hear with your skull. Yeah. Oh, well, I guess that works. My dad, Ross has hearing damage. Oh, well, he'll never admit it, buddy. Do I. Yeah. I guess that works. I'm in my dad's process hearing damage. Oh, well, never met it, buddy. Do I? Yeah. I mean, probably. I mean, there's a lot of situations where I'm in where I just can't hear shit where everyone else is fine. Yeah, you've kind of, I've, the impression that I have of yours that you've just been

tanking a bunch of sort of like occupational health things for many years at this point. Yeah, sort of, sort of a, I don't know, loud party. Can't hear anyone. I'm going to go home. I can't talk to anyone because I can't hear what they're saying. I mean, anytime you tell me a story about work like before podcasts or before YouTube, it's like, yeah, I swam through this trench of dioxin every day. Um, well, it was never quite that bad.

I was in some pretty, not really like that. It was that bad. It was that there's never quite that bad. I was in some pretty nice places. It was that bad. It was that bad. It was that bad. So thank you, thank you to the listeners for keeping me out of the pool house, Liam in headphones and Justin out of the trench of diolks. Yes. We're hanging off, hanging out somewhere, chest nut square, whatever they call that jittle. Oh, they still gives me vertigo thinking back to that. I know that's really stupid. I should not have gone around that corner. There's a there's a reason they were tie-off points there.

Anyway, I didn't die so I'm good. Sort of one of the qualifications that I have in podcast is not having died. I haven't fallen off of 40 story building. Yeah. Oh, Jesus. Anyway, so welcome to Willares your problem. It's a podcast about keeping us from dying and engineering disasters.

That's right. I'm Justin Riznick. I'm the first news talking right now. My pronouns are he and him. OK, go. I am Alex Kultor-Kali. I'm the first news talking now. My pronouns are he and him. Okay, go. I am Alex Kultor-Kali, I'm the first news talking now. My pronouns are she and her. Ye Liam.

Ye Liam, hi, I'm Liam Anderson. My pronouns are at E&M. I'm the person talking right now. If you want to mail me headphones, the PO box is in the video description. Please, please mail me headphones and continue to have a monitor. Yeah.

Really, front loading the fact that we have a PO box, which is good because I like it when people give us free stuff. Shout out to Twitter user, kidney stones of Jordan for the PC part. Email me. So what you see in front of you, appears to be a piece of avant-garde sculpture. Yes, I believe that that's that

and not the wreckage of an aircraft. No, it's like a like a spaceship sort of like landed and then somebody shared the top of it off, you know, I was thinking that too. Yeah. Well, in fact, it is a piece of Boeing 737. Now, you may wonder where is the rest of it? Still up. That they, you know, that pilot joke, they never left one up there.

Yeah, this was the first one. This was the first one. I mean, the problem with, um, with planes is that if you subject them to strenuous enough physical forces, they become avant-garde sculpture. Yes. I think we did leave one up there. Um, I made you voyage your one. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, probably image 372 still up, you know, don't worry about it. They're just doing like, I mean, they have the night watch, emergency operations planes that like there's always one up, but they do operation. What's that called? The, yeah, the new ones. But like they do this on a sort of bullshit rotor thing We're like one of them lands another one takes off. There's always one up

I think they should be like testing one to either mechanical or crew failure and just keep air to air refueling it Oh, I don't like that at all. I was the idea Yeah, that was the idea of the nuclear airplane project. Yeah, I mean, air to a nuclear refueling, you just shoot a bunch of spent fuel rods up the thing. Yeah. Rods from what's the opposite? What's what's ground guard? I don't know. Rods from Satan, I guess,

lives under the ground, lives at the bottom of the Cola Superdeep Buhol. I'm reliably informed. So, yes. Well, what we're here to talk about is none of those things. We are here to talk about if you're in hell, right? What you need to do, if you're listening to this and how you need to find the entrance to the Cola Superdeep Buhol and then instead of like screaming at it in like a haunted moaning way, like every other dipshit down there, what you need to do is you need to force yourself upwards through how many hundred miles of three-inch pike.

Like a whole or whatever? Yeah, you need to properly junji-ito yourself, like punch through the little bullshit casing they have on the top, and then you're just done, you're good. You got it, I mean, okay, three inches wide now, but I'm sure there's like treatments for that and then you're out you know I made it. So we're here to talk about Helios Airways flight 522. We're talking about the Cola Super Deep Warhol dude. Sorry. Now I want to keep going with my things like 20 to 30 minutes.

Yeah whatever upsets you the most. We got we got a lot of slides to cover folks. I got nothing to do, buddy. This is my job. Wow. Liam Anderson, workaholic. Man, that's the podcast workaholic. Yeah.

Yeah. But first we have to do the god damn news Bad news we're gonna have to put some links in the description on this one So did you guys see the Post that was like oh shit like all of Hawaii has burned. All of Hawaii is destroyed and sunk into the ocean. The entire state's gone, but not a blade of grass on the Obama's property is damaged mysteriously. Well, I would say the most famous Hawaiian island is Martha's Vineyard. Yeah, it's been annexed, yeah. Yeah, I mean, so what happened is that there have been these huge wildfires on Maui, the Obama's places on Oahu, which is in different, like, an island, right?

Just the stupidity of that post. But yeah, it's like, what is it? Like over a hundred people dead so far and like some Similarly like huge number of people missing People jumping into the fucking ocean to avoid the fire absolutely Yeah, it burned down this whole town Laihi. Now I think it's called Yes, it's one of the most historic towns on the Hawaiian Islands too. And pretty much everything's gone. They're going to like rebuild in the sense of redevelopment and turn it into like luxury

result. Oh, yes. Just like Christchurch, yeah. So yeah, this is another one of those climate change fueled things, you know, at least this proximate causes climate change, you know, because there's all these extra typhoons in the Pacific now that help fan the flames, which help make this wildfire much worse than it usually is, because usually wildfires, they're not, you know, they're not easily able to cross like the urban wild lands divide. In this case, this one was just like, nah, fuck you, you got a bunch of wooden buildings

and, you know, no amount of fireproofing is stopping this thing. You know, because this is, I don't know, this is, this is, that's something, that's something you've really seen since, you know, the era of era of the Great Fires, which is a long time ago. I don't think we've had a proper Great Fire in something like 70 years. Hello, Milchick. Yeah. I mean, sort of lots of blame going around for this at the moment.

Supposedly, the emergency sirens that they have. The power grid was not sufficient. Yeah, well, they just didn't go off. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I think the. The official who was supposed to do that said they didn't want to like panic people and have them run into higher ground because they're normally like tsunami warnings. But I don't know. This was a situation where there was basically no evacuation route. Right. Yeah, and I mean, for like, to the ocean, it's not a place I want to evacuate there.

Yeah, and for like, a long few days afterwards, like the first week, even afterwards, like, it's still been like very, very poorly organized, as I understand. Yeah. So a real self-rescue sort of situation. Lest you got this wonderful thing where our entire infrastructure is based around cars, which turns out when you got to vacuate everyone at once, they get stuck.

We've seen the video. It's seen in this image. Come to the videos out of Katrina, tell. Yeah. And the worst part is they had a near miss like this in like 2018 that again almost took out the town and the way that this one did. And you'd think that would have been maybe a teachable moment for somebody with the power to do something about it, but seemingly not.

No. And I mean, the other thing, the other cool thing about this is that because it's why you're tourists coming back or trying to. Because the spot, the four seasons burnt down, I saw that. Yeah, exactly. To be like, well, actually, I think it's very inconsiderate of you to have your house burned down, and I'm trying to have a relaxing vacation here. Yes. So I mean, you know, I don't blame anyone for sort of like anti-tourist sentiment here, or the most other places. I didn't have a house anymore. I wouldn't blame anyone for sort of like anti-tourist sentiment here. I didn't have a house anymore. I wouldn't be thrilled.

Yeah. I mean, I hate tourists and I have a house. So stop coming to my neighborhood. Yeah. And I mean, it's one of the things we're like, you know, this state has like vastly prioritized it as part of the economy. It's like, you know, some, I think it's like 20, 30% of the economy. So like huge, huge numbers of jobs. Well, they ran out of guano to mine. Yeah. You don't

have a lot of other options. I was getting guapo and go on. I confused. I was like, hands up shit. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, service economy, tourism is, I guess, what it is. And so the redevelopment that is like, you know, it just looks recondos, right? And native indigenous Hawaiians are just going to get fucked. Yeah. And we're going to act like it's, yeah, this is Zuck's fault, actually. Yeah, absolutely. That's what happens when we put the Jews in charge.

No, but I'm mad. Yes, that's what you bet. No, I wasn't I wasn't taking a hard in the 27th. It was more like space laser miss fire. Space laser. That was the joke. I was sort of sort of trying to just

allow the barbell. Like space zippo. So like, yeah, no, I mean, like the sort of erosion of land rights in favor of private islands and whatever the fuck else. Yeah, exactly. It's, you know, not necessarily a proximate cause here, but it's definitely like a contributing factor. At some point, we will have to do the telescope. Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. But I have read those emails. I know okay, we are getting to the telescope episode or you know the us Navy just like kind of dumping bunk of fuel into every water. Oh, yeah

Maybe it actually has three heads now You can you can you can really see sort of Hawaii is one of those locations But you can really kind of like see the state with its clothes off, you know So like sharpened these. I have been to Hawaii. I will see your colonizer. So you shouldn't have done that. Sorry, I'm sorry. I, it's the same apology I'm going to do for birthright. I want to birthright. Sorry. You got on Hawaii birthright. It's a very, very geographic. Yeah. What's the view why you on a lulu and now I play a line. I am actually Samoan. Uh, I'm fact, you got a boy guy. You just got to go to all the most distasteful

places. Um, you know, next, next one is see if there's a birthright for the Jewish autonomous all blast. Yeah, going to to Russia is probably one of the more cancelable things you could do right now. So yeah, you could like, you've got a Crimea or something. Oh, yeah. You go, I'm joining the Ukrainian Russian war on the side of the Russians. He's really knowing how to stick with a loser.

Yeah. It's a shame. We're recording this moments after a pregoation had a. I'm a serious actor. God's love. Yeah. Should have put that in, but we literally, it was like a minute ago. What can you say other than play stupid games win stupid prizes? Yeah. you say other than play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. You got to see the coup through the completion by guy. I got to know what exactly what's going to happen. You can't give up the cool horse. Admit stream. You have to you have to you have to finish the nice Sunday drive. You have to arrive at your destination. Yeah. Listen, if if if if SDS aren't going to release the Russia Euro Truck Simulator DLC,

you have to do the next best thing and invade Moscow. Yes. We should put some links for the Hawaiian Red Cross or something. Yeah, we should probably do that. Various recovery efforts, yes. across or something. Yeah, we probably do that. Various recovery efforts, yes. In other news.

For a second, I got my wires crossed. So I was like, we should probably put some links in the description for if getting pregozion. Um, shout out to Wagoner.net. Wagoner. are you that really cursing right now? About to say if you need a need a private military contract

or right now, I mean, they are go. They're hurting for business. Yeah. Yeah. It's like you have to be a mercenary. You often hear about in like

organizational studies, the bus factor, which is the number of people it would take to get hit by a bus to like take out the organization. So for us, it's one, right? You know, one of us gets hit by a bus. The podcast doesn't work anymore. And I was kind of surprised to learn that Wagner is also the same number. Well, no, it was they put all the people in the same bus. Ah, yeah, you should do you don't want to do that That's what we have to do. I play in every way like Coca-Cola exact attempts. Yes

So yeah in other news Hurricane Hillary hid Los Angeles at the same time in earthquake did Yes, I disaster movie ass synopsis and for all that you know like as much as many times as Los Angeles has been destroyed in movies and stuff. Seeing it happen in real life. Another big buildings fell over man

what the fuck like I feel cheated. I just a lot of mud in the streets. Now please lay in that mud in the streets. Now please, like, I'll play in that water by the way. Do not touch the poop, don't do it. I've seen, I have seen, and I say this with a hatred in every fiber of my being,

I have seen TikToks, right? I've seen footage. I know what you people have been doing with that flood water, and I'm here to say, do not do it. If you do like the splits into that flood water for the sake of a fun tech talk, you will get diseases in your pussy, the likes of which civilization has not seen in a thousand years. No, sorry for using that word, I did receive some pictures of the Union Pacific line out in Yuma, Arizona.

If you remember from our last episode, San Diego and Arizona railroad, that's where I joined. Things look pretty bad out there. Yeah, buddy. And I think you wrote to destroy. Yeah. And they did it again. Yeah, I mean, this is sort of the, you know, San Diego gets weather once every 60 years situation, well, it happened. It's all bad.

It's all bad. It's very bad. Yeah. So do we know like any of the actual consequences of that yet? Or we just kind of like this bad. Someone's going to flow through the way kind of thing. Well, I don't think that this was as bad as, let's say, what happened in Hawaii. I think this is just an extreme rain event.

There's some flooding, but not like crazy flooding. But don't go in the poop water, please. I'll go in the poop water. I'm enjoying our sort of like developing house style that whenever a sort of like climate change event happens We just say that the entire city or in Hawaii's case the entire state has been destroyed. Yes Oh taking us back to the live show and speaking of Yeah, no, no, no, damn it. Fuck another news item

Yeah, it's going on here. So this one's me. So in Pakistan, very recently, in Khyberbhaktonhoi, I fucked up the pronunciation there in KP Province, right? It's very mountainous, lots of mountain valleys. And what do you do when the school is two minutes away if you were able to travel directly across the mountain valley or four hours away if you have to drive down and then back up The answer. The cable way. Yeah, you build a cable way and who do you get to build the cable way?

Some guy from the town He like makes it out of like scrap metal and like iron and stuff and a couple of ropes, and there's a bunch of these. And so this cable car, this home made one, was carrying eight people, most of them kids on their way to school. It's got, I think, two cables, one of them snaps, and it leaves them stranded 900 feet above the ground. and like, it's got, I think, two cables, one of them snaps and it leaves them stranded like 900 feet above the ground. And it's normally just dangling diagonally.

Exactly. Yeah, I mean, you can't see it in this photo, but it's like, it's literally like a metal sort of like container bin thing that's like, can't to go over on one side. What you can see in this photo is that the Pakistani army is left with how the fuck do you rescue people from this? You don't have like one of the like specialized things

that goes onto the cable or anything. It's like 900 feet in the air, so you can't go up. And so that solution is, the angular guy on a helicopter, like on a witch and just have him do some really really Precise flying and just like get him on there have him like executive decision it like the Steven Seagull movie and just like Get in the thing grab the kids and go and the amazing thing is thing, grab the kids and go. And the amazing thing is they fucking did it. Like no one died doing this. One guy on the end of a like winch successfully grabbed up eight people, like six kids, two adults, and and got them back on the ground safely, which is astounding. I mean, I don't know how you both a pile of a helicopter like that and

B get dangled on the end of a winch doing that. It's ridiculous. Very carefully. Yeah, no kidding. This is definitely still a better option that I would prefer to the other two options I can think of which are big ladder don't like that. Yeah We trampoline is not so good either. We train them all to bungee jump. Yeah So in a real case of sort of like Oh, if you bungee jump you just wind up stuck there In a fabulous case of like locking the stable door after the horse has bolted the care taker prime minister says that he's ordered all of the chair lifts in the country to be

inspected for safety, which is, um, okay. Okay. I mean, supposedly this one was, but like it was generally was just built by like a guy dude. Right. Yeah. It's like a hobbyist thing, which is, ah, that's what I want. Okay. Well, you do, right? The thing is, right, in Pakistan, right, they don't have the kind of civilized American

option of bulldozing all of this to build like an 18 lane freeway that makes a mere two minute drive from your house to the school. So instead, it would be like a four-hour drive. And because they don't have the kind of American rugged individualism that makes you want to drive everywhere, they just have to, you know, contrive a sort of a public transport solution. Is it the safest? No. Is it the prettiest? No. But, you know, that's the kind of spirit of innovation that I think we should be encouraging. Make shift cable cars. I wonder how you get in a make shift fashion,

the cable from one end to the mountain to the other. Oh, that's an interesting question. I mean, you've got to just have like a cable party, just like walk it across, right? Like you don't be that or it could, it could be a helicopter. I mean, you're only using it once. You think you could like get in a helicopter one time to do this? Well, no, there's two cables so you'd have to do it two times. Uh, I mean, how much is a helicopter? Go for it, do we think?

And KFA? I have no idea. It's probably actually cheap, actually. The cost of the landing is pretty low out there. And so in rural Pakistan, you can probably exploit imperialism. Played for rural Pakistan? Yeah. I was thinking, I was thinking, you could get

the special operations come on to do it. But I saw a summer bin Laden here or like, you know He was he was on the end of this cable in the middle of the mountain valley if you like come and lift it up You can you can get us ask you get him. Yeah, yeah Listen, I've heard that the last thing that a summer bin Laden wants you to do is to take this cable and bring it over there If you did that he'd be really mad. Just only those topical jokes. I don't think I like, I'm 50 years ago, some shit like that, and I'm just, I'm such a hack. I don't deserve good head funds. Don't worry. How old is the cable way? It might have worked.

How old is the cable way? It might have worked. It's good point. Yeah. The cable way was nicknamed Dolly, by the way, which is just a fun little detail. Like dolly. Dollly. Dollly. Dollly.

One hundred several hundred feet to my death. The love right. Yes, of course. So, uh, make sure your cable ways are inspected. Yeah. And if you have to get someone rescued by helicopter, go to Pakistan, I guess, because somebody's been playing Taik on helicopters out there. Yeah. Another copter news. We have a live show. There's a live show going to happen. It's on September 12th. It's a Franklin music

hall. It's with us, minion death cold podcast and the anti-fada podcast. I think because we're all podcasts in the venue that night, it should be called Franklin podcast hall for the night. No one's going with my idea. No, we couldn't even get it on 9-11 like we wanted, which is, I get in a double insult, but it's schedule conflicts, you know. The day you're almost never forget. Listen, I want you to remember as Americans who you were on 9-12 when you went to the combination. Hang guests of our podcast. Yeah, well, there's your problem, minion death call, antifada live show. It's it's going to be a great time. We couldn't figure out these as for me to come, but I'm going to tell a presence it like I would snow it again. Yeah. You must come. You have to, it's going to be a great time. We,

the last live show we did, we couldn't upload any of the audio because it was sort of a series of chance and yeah it was it got excitable and I think if you want to have an excitable time in Philadelphia Pennsylvania on the 12th of September this is this is where to do it. Please come to the live show and I will maybe fight you. Liam Justin will like literally will sign stuff for you after probably that. That's true. Sign the first responder ID after the last one. Yeah.

Yeah. Watch McCollard. Yeah, there will be exclusive merchandise at the live show. Not sure what it will be yet. Well, for one thing, you'll be able to get a call with this cool poster. I believe. Yes, this is true. And so, yeah, if you buy tickets, you can then come to the show and then give us even more money. Yes.

This is a wrap of opportunity. I've got a show, mate. I, I, I, yes, I, you need to keep me in headphones, listeners. This is a really fucking good poster, by the way. Grim, grim, grim. That's right. Very good artist. We are going to pop it six dead cops and two Liberty bells.

Yeah, it's going to be like a sort of a medley thing. It's going to be us and Minion Deathgall and the Antifada each doing a little show within a show thing. It's going to be really fun. There'll be two of us in person from each of the podcasts, right? Yeah. Yeah, and then we have the devil here, which I assume that's Alice turning us all into cops. Are we cops? I don't want to be a cop.

Yeah, that's it. This is what's happening. This is the live show where I make you all into cops. Oh, isn't that reverse? I'm finally going to do it. You know, I've been threatening out for a long time. You're all getting sworn in. Ah, shit. And these people say art doesn't symbolize anything anymore. Hmm, interesting. I don't think art doesn't symbolize anything anymore. Hmm, interesting.

All right. That was the God damn news. All right, I got to, I got to own up to something real quick here. I have to talk about the process of making this podcast because when I do the slides, I do any part do the slides, I do any podcast slides. Basically, what happens is on five minutes notice, I go, oh shit, I got to find an image for this. And the way in which I choose to source images for this podcast is, unethically, I just Google And so that's why this has, it's an illustration of air pressure and altitude, primarily in reference to birds.

Yes. We should probably hire an art team, but we don't, we spend all that money on headphones. Yeah. So airplanes, right? Commercial airliners, they're pressurized, right? Now, two questions present themselves here, which are how and why specifically? So you have a commercial airplane, right? It flies at a high altitude, you know, 34,000

feet, 41,000 feet, whatever. The air is very thin up there. I'm going to have a bug bear about this. By the way, people say that the air has less oxygen. It doesn't, it's the same amount of oxygen. It's a lot of partial pressure of oxygen. Sorry. It just, it was bothers me. And people say like, there's less oxygen in the air. It's like, no, you can make less use of the oxygen. The air is the gas exchange is less efficient. The less, there's less oxygen in the air. It's like, no, you can make less use of the oxygen the air because the gas exchange is less efficient. Like, the less, there's less air in the air. So yeah, if you have thin air up there, that's pretty bad for lift on the airplane. Lift works better in thicker air, right? You can compensate for that by going faster,

which is easier because the air is thinner, so you don't have to shove as much of it out of your way. So flying a plane very high and very fast is very economical from, you know, fuel efficiency, so on and so forth. It also gives you a whole bunch of glide time if something goes wrong with the engines, right? Yeah, plus cool view out of the window keeps you clear of like, definitely everything, because it was, as we see see here the highest point of terrain on earth is still Significant or the new one. Yeah, exactly. Sorry. So one was knocking at the neighbors house so loud I thought it was like my door so punching punching house You know that doesn't put your buff though strangely enough is a vultures as we see here. Thank you No, we talked about that yesterday. The bird reference graph, right? A vulture has a sort of cruising altitude

about the same as a commercial aircraft, which means you could get a bird strike at cruising altitude if you're lucky enough. Yeah, so if you wanted to know this in sort of reference terms of like how high a woofer swan flies, or whatever, then yeah, I'm your girl. Oh, rather Google images is your girl.

Yeah. So aircraft are pressurized, right? But they're not that pressurized, right? In the same way that like let's say a submarine or a spaceship is, you know, everything leaks, air leaks out of the plane. You know, it's sort of a constant rate. And you compensate for that by adding more air into the cabin. This is from something called bleed air, right? That comes from the engines. Essentially, the point between, I'm not entirely certain of this. There's some point between the intake

and where the fuel is added to the engine. You siphon off the air that's coming through the turbine. And, you know And then you send that through a bunch of heat exchangers because it's a very, very hot air, which is very highly compressed air. And then you use that for the HVAC system, for certain pneumatic systems, cooling electronics on and so forth, right? And so this is how you continuously add air into the cabin to compensate for leakage. And this means also since it comes from the engines

every once in a while, you get something called a fume incident where some oil gets into the bleed air, airlines say this is harmless, except for that one time in spirit airlines flight in 2015 where the pilots were actually incapacitated by the fumes. Well, I guess that's a rare look at it. It's perfectly normal to be sprayed with a misdivangent oil, you know. I don't worry about it. Spirit airlines flight. Exactly.

The air change on the plane is something like three minutes, right, which is why you didn't necessarily see airplanes as COVID super spreader events, at least before you could identify a COVID super spreader event. It's sort of the same thing on like public transportation, all those things they circulate the air really, really quickly because they have to, as opposed to let's say it's bitter. Yeah, so that's also why I get really, you're telling me I've been just like wearing a mask like an asshole and I needn't have. Well, let's not get another strike from YouTube over this.

Okay. Yeah, sorry. Sorry. So, I'm, you know,, I'm gonna keep doing it. Don't yell at me. This is also why it's so dry in the airplane, right? If it were truly sealed shut, everyone would get, everyone would be breathing.

It would get really, really humid in there and nasty. It's just boot. You know, exactly. It'd be horrible submarine area. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, also like an airplane is pressured to pressure ice to like not that high,

like even that low of an altitude. Like essentially you're like Mexico city altitude, right? Yeah, I want to say, cabin standard, cabin pressure is like 8,000 feet or something. Interesting. Which is also why your food tastes bad from what I recall, or bland, not a silly bad but bland. Yeah, absolutely.

Well, what I had to do with the dryness of the air and what you're doing is you're bringing in very, very hot, very, very dry air. And then you send it through the air conditioning process, which dehumidifies it further. And if you wanted to bring, let's say, a humidifier on air to make it more comfortable, you got to put a big water tank on the plane, which I don't think that's going to be bad for weight. So you just get to that. You vet me.

I have recycled it from the toilets. Just humidified it out. Yeah. Yeah. You'll get nothing in like in hogs. Again, best spirit airlines flight. That's what you're really going to get, Legionella. Check out our bonus episode. Yeah.

So yeah, all of these things conspire to create that strange sort of like airplane feeling, which we all know and love, right? Mm-hmm, especially bras. Oh, yeah, I love that airplane feeling. I love everything about flying. It's so great. Oh my God.

I've never known you say a little taste of recycling. Just like all that. It's all over the place. Derek, try to call you dad. You'll be like, I'll kill everybody here. I think you can say on planes and I can't. Look, I there was a reason the flight into Newark was canceled. Is all I can say. It was me saying I could kill everybody here and get a wrestle to the ground by five and I'm on the back of the plane. They didn't

give a shit if we limter died. Yeah. For reference, this is from a few months ago when Liam and our friend Derek and I were on a American Airlines flight from New Orleans to Philadelphia that just went straight through a thunderstorm, which I understand is something you're not supposed to do. It's found upon the thunderstorm community, yeah. Yeah, exactly. And then, of course, we went to the runway and there was too much crosswinds. So we had to do a go around and go to the perpendicular runway, which meant going back into the thunderstorm and coming back. I'm very, very stupid.

I like where we were going to divert the Harrisburg and I would have a nice, pleasant flight. No. I like when the weather is bad and you get like strong crosswinds and stuff, and you get plane spots is going to the airport to like admire the skill of the pilots, and they're all like, oh, wow, he's like really going to make it, really going to go for it. But the problem is pilots are too good at piloting now, and the planes are too good at not crashing, so there's no suspense to it. You just watch the thing, he's like, yeah, he's going to make that. Like, whatever. You just watched the thing, he's like, yeah, it's gonna make that. Like, whatever. Yeah, so I'm not a big fan of really bad turbulence.

So anyway, incidentally, you know, that's gonna get worse because of climate change. Oh, yeah. That's why we need high speed rail. Or like sort of like space flight, you know, the like, what do you call it? The like space plane thing? I didn't get space turbulence then. Space to fuck. Okay. Gonna hit, but get hit by a big rock. Everything Starlink satellite. Everything but high speed rail is a conspiracy against the speed and comfort of the passenger.

Yes. Put that in a t-shirt. the speed and comfort of the passenger. Yes. Put that in a t-shirt. So, um, okay. So that's how you pressurize the plane is you shove a bunch of bleed air from the engines into the cabin at a greater rate than it can leak out. Um, now, why do you pressurize it? Oh, so this is a fun sort of aviation physiology graph I found, uh, which is

not wholly accurate. You can get all of these. It's like different heights. So if you don't have enough oxygen in your blood, you get hypaxemia. If you don't have enough oxygen in your tissues because of that, you get hypoxia. There are four types of hypoxia of which only one is important to us. And it's a great piece of medical redundancy, hypoxic hypoxia, which is just when your tissues don't have enough oxygen in them because they don't have enough oxygen in them. Ah, okay.

So it's all the dead. Yeah, and like the other ones are like, you know, like fucking histotoxic hypoxia, where it's like, because it's fucking shit in the way, you know, like cyan histotoxic hypoxia, where it's like, cause it's fucking shit in the way, or like cyanide or whatever, the ones preferentially stuff like that. But yeah, hypoxic hypoxia is, there is not enough oxygen, therefore you are not getting enough oxygen in your tissues.

And what happens when you don't get enough oxygen in your tissues is those tissues get impaired and die. And as we see here, we have a list of symptoms that sort of roughly correlates with how oxygen deprived you are and what altitude that tends to happen at. And the not a big fan of convulsions, cardiovascular collapse and yeah, as you see, convulsions, cardiovascular collapse and death, along with CNS failure, is it at the top end, right? You're hitting 70% to 60% oxygen saturation. Again, idiosyncratic, depends on personal physiology and stuff. This was also a COVID thing. People were getting severely, severely hypoxic. They were getting down as the 50s and 40s and they were like ostensibly fine kind of thing.

So this stuff is weird, but what you may notice is the way that this comes on is sort of by stealth, right? Like you are slightly hypoxic, your symptoms are decrease in night vision, drowsiness, impaired judgment, coordination and efficiency, like you might feel a bit drunk, you might feel a bit confused and slow, and then the confusion gets worse. So you have like sort of impaired control, impaired handwriting and speech, you're like less coordinated, and then the big stuff of, you know, and death, right? And this is like, you know, dependent on certain factors like, you know, where you grew

up and stuff, I mean, I imagine you maybe have a Sherpa pilot. You could go to the moon and be fired, right, of course. Yeah, exactly, right? Yeah, he's like, he's, he, he will go, he would have gone through this entire incident, having no idea anything was wrong. Um, so factors affecting aviation hypoxia, you know, fun stuff like a genetics, like you say, a climatization, like in the same way that you can,

you can act on yourself to climb Mount Everest without oxygen, self-loyal oxygen, if you're one of like some people. Um, just sheer dumb luck, training potentially, like you train like certain pilots to... You're the best at the bar shop once more. Yeah, if you want to do some like, whim off shit, that might help. But in general, the thing about this is, I circle back to the stealth, right, is... It's a lot like carbon monoxide poisoning and a lot of other things with respiration, where it is possible to not respite adequately and not know.

Yes. It's not like that. Hmm. Yeah, it's definitely a stealth problem. So we're talking like the frog in boiling water type of thing. We'll get there. I put another slide about that in in. Oh, where did I put this in? Slide 12. So we'll get to it in a minute.

Okay, so this is the document. The goal figure of course. Yeah, yeah. So when you pressurize an airplane, what happens when you don't pressurize an airplane? And I've put some sort of like flagrant examples in of what happens when you sort of like grow mal, decompress an airplane, right? Of course. Explosive decompression. It's a fun thing you can do by blowing a hole

in the side of the aircraft. And what tends to happen when you do that is you get sucked out of the aircraft and you get a free skydive with no parachutes at the ground, as seen in the documentary gold finger seen here. Wow, that set decided show it its age. Yeah, cool Chez though. It's very nice chair. These these the old United uh, uh, uh,

livery is incredible. Um, I don't know. It's not. It's not. Here's here's a big hole in the airplane that shouldn't be there. Um, No, that's what it's a story about that speed hole. But obviously they did get that plane onto the ground.

Oh, it's happened. I'm sure we'll talk about it in the future. Yeah, man. Yeah, you can land a plane with like a big part of the fuselage just gone. One of the reasons why they saw you to keep your seatbelt on. Because if you're just up and walking around, you get sucked out. Yep. But yeah, you can absolutely just ride out.

I mean, you have some problems, but you can absolutely ride one of these things out, just like strapped into your seat, presumably pacing and chasing yourself. Probably to put it down as quickly as possible, though. Yeah. So any other thing is like there's sort of a myth that, you know, if there's like a small hole all of a sudden, you can have explosive decompression,

like everything's gonna get sucked into that one little hole. There's not that much difference in air pressure to make that work. That's why, you know, air marshals can have guns, right? Yeah, although weirdly that myth led to a kind of paranoia about this that led to them using frangible ammunition, which they don't really have as much reason to do so. I mean, it's partly that and partly like they don't want to shoot a guy and have it go through the guy and into like five passengers, but

still some of it's just that's the feeling that's the real reason that they're really highly trained in shooting is that they have to shoot the bad guy in and amongst 500 people. Yeah. Yeah. We're all crammed together. I have played the mile high level in Call of Duty modern more. I think that I would be an expert in this. Real niche for like, M-A-Shoe, Shusa Games, given that it's some very precise shooting. But I'm not very good at it.

I almost always kill the hostage. If anyone wants to do that for like a game jam or something. shooting. But I'm not very good at it. I almost always killed the hostage. If anyone wants to do that for like a game jam or something. But yeah, so yeah, as you say, it's not a submarine. You're not going to like buy for dolphin your way out of a plane like that. Then of course, what happens if you lose pressure? You don't get sucked out of the plane necessarily, but you can get a small hole or whatever that does decompress the plane over a period of time, a slow decompression. It still takes a minute either way.

So what you're supposed to do in this situation is like an alarm goes off in the cockpit, you declare an emergency because it is one, and then you as a passenger get a very frightening time as the oxygen masks that you were told about in the safety briefing, you were hopefully paying attention to drop out of the ceiling, you secure your own mask before helping others. It actually isn't an oxygen tank, by the way. People think there is. It's a, it's, it's, this is like a submarine. It's a chemical oxygen generator. It will just fire up a little chemical reaction that generates oxygen. And then you get to ride the seat downwards as they fling it from cruising altitude down to like, I think it's like a thousand feet. You get it as a feet. You get the

pharma carbon experience. Yes. Except only down. So like, it's, oh, I never, I mean, listen, there's a lot of worse things that can happen to you. Right. If this happens to you, you're still very unlikely to die or even get injured, but like, oh boy. You're, you're, you're still very unlikely to die or even get injured, but like, Oh, boy. I hear you're you're descending the 6000 feet per minute. I believe is the emergency descent rate, which I imagine would feel uncomfortable at the start and end. But, um, yeah, maybe during the descent is not so bad. You know, everything's there is going to be like a river of

a hiss going uphill. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, if everything's there is going to be like a river of his going uphill. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, I don't think that is true. I don't think they're bringing the drinks cart round as my contention during this time. You should be. I need it. I want my BAC to be one, but it would be a two masks, two masks come down one for the alcohol, one for the vodka. And you just like go back and forth right right right so it's alcohol and vodka yeah Yeah, what's all the Oxygen for the vodka I see that Alice has entered the early stages of hypoxia and yeah, yeah, I should be should be like highly alarmed and immediately

Flinging myself out of the window of my flat to get to a blocker out. To get to a blocker out. I would be, who would have come out for me? I have been in place and pretty rough, they're built, but rougher than what Ross and I experienced because I am not a goddamn baby when I fly. But yeah, this is pretty high on the Liam Fiorid decks. You see that shit.

I don't wanna ride the second half of Fava carbon. I'll tell you that. The other thing is that because it's sort of like one of the rare cases in like a lot of consumer experiences of a hard edge right when a world of soft edges. Oh, I know. I think about this a fair amount, right?

It's something that has no concession to aesthetics or comfort because it's purely a safety measure. And so if you see, I don't have it in this picture, but if you see posters of the oxygen mask that I'm playing the play looking upwards, there's a real sense of like, I'm not supposed to be seeing a plane like this, of seeing the thing that they dropped from with all the like, tubing and cords and stuff.

And it's like, oh, okay, this is a sort of like a curious state of exception from the norm of like, things being glossed over for my benefit. Right, this is the sudden realization that things have gone very poorly. Yeah. I think on the next slide, we'll see things going even more poorly, because I hope I never see this image ever again

in my life. He's got a thumbs up. What's not too wide, but I'm like, oh my god. Who's going to thumb up? So I should say. Yeah, everything's fine. I'm great up here. Yom mother fuckers are so have I Foxy back there, but we're chillin' up here in the cabin.

Fuck y'all thanks for my spirit. Also, he's on the ground, which means something has gone very wrong. I should I should say that like your hypoxic I'm fine in here is a preeminent theory for the demise of MH370. So one thing that I should say is in this situation, the pilots are fine, which is good you want them to be, because they have a separate air supply, it's a much longer air supply, and they have cool masks, which, and I didn't know this until I did the research for this, I thought I was used to the sort of like, you know, broad-sored calling Danny Boy, like, sort of nasolabial mask. I guess at some point, like fairly recently, they added like a full-face mask

in case someone somehow manages to like, CBRN the aircraft, in case somebody like sets off some like, you know, like a tear gas for an aircraft. It's take it down right yeah exactly exactly like you have a sort of like full-face seal so that's cool and they're fine the idea is you know even if you're not fine they'll at least land the plane yeah I was useful if you can use the plane again, even if everyone dies. Yeah, just rinse off the rinse out the river of person. Yeah, I say as I clean the shit river out of the to with the flesh color kind of mask, which you sell them see a flesh tone mask. It's a little uncomfortable, but I don't. I don't. I found this sort of like bungee cord straps. They have the next slide, please. Yeah. So there's a middle ground, right? So if you're not fine and the pilots are

fine, the flight attendants are sort of fine. They're like more fine than you less fine than the pilots, because they have these big honking scuba tanks to carry around. Because an important part of being a flight attendant is that you die last, apart from when you die first, put that on the job adverse, like become a flight attendant, rarely die in the middle. You'll go west, right? Yeah, but exactly. Yeah. D die first on the hijacking die last in a plane crash particularly this kind uh yeah seldom die in the middle yeah and then of course I got some more aviation medicine for you uh like time of useful consciousness being 15 to 20 seconds I can fuck it it, tell you that right now. Yeah, time of useful consciousness is like one, uh, you're fucked.

Like, useful decision time is another. Um, so we see here this, this graphs with altitude and with how rapid the decompression is. Um, but in practice, essentially if you're like a typical cruising altitude for a passenger airliner, in a slow decompression you have one to two minutes of useful consciousness before you're like two coherent to do shit and you die. And in a rapid decompression that's like 30 seconds. That time goes down high, you get. Eplanes, you know, they're not depending on the phase of flight potentially, you're sort of like gaining or losing altitude and that's changing, but like there's a bunch of different variables there, but the short version of this is that you have an alarmingly slow time

to do something about hypoxia before you die of hypoxia. Yes. And I should say, if the way that you detect hypoxia is essentially like either an alarm goes off to warn you, or you notice that you feel weird within 30 seconds to two minutes. And if you don't do that, well, I mean, remember how one of the symptoms is confusion. Get so fuck of a lot harder to work out that you are feeling confused when you are confused. You get the sort of side-uck syndrome. Yeah, you get a sort of like powerful sense of unease. And that's someone who regularly experiences a powerful sense of unease for no fucking reason whatsoever. Right. Yeah.

It's not ideal, you know? You started actually feeling more normal. Yeah. It's one of the, I mean, should be alarmed. You may be. You may be experiencing hypoxia. It's a good reason to have an independent scientific objective measurement of the partial pressure of oxygen in the air.

Yeah, so with that, let's talk about our our airline today. Oh, that's a helioid budget logo. High budget logo. Yeah, come. Helios. Helios airways, right? So let's talk about this company. I'm not entirely certain of the accuracy of this. I tried to sort of piece this together because this is sort of a sort of a fly by night airline of which there seem to be a lot, especially in Europe. I'm looking at it with easy stuff, you suds of horse. I was going to say the rise of the cheap package holiday deal really like was a windfall

for these guys. And I was so sad to say I could have I could have 50 airlines using 30 planes. You know, we just had to repaint them when we do the turnaround. Yeah, I mean, like people say that, you know, one of the things that's going to have to be a consequence of climate change is air travel going back to being a luxury and it's like, but it kind of already is. If you're not flying on a budget carrier. Um, this is true. Yeah. I mean, the kind of flying that successful normal people is like this or like easy jet or like air Berlin or whatever the fuck. Yeah. So Helios Airways, right? They started out as a different company called TEA Cypress and they were trying to fulfill the vision of the ideal airline. So we've talked about the ideal railroad before, which owns no tracks and runs no trains.

The ideal airline owns no planes and employs no pilots or flight attendants. It's Ross's ideal because it's an airline that's actually just a railroad. Well, so T.E.A. Cypress facilitates the ideal airline by owning airplanes and employing crews and leasing them out. This is called a wet lease, right? So, it don't like a phrase wet lease. Well, in the airline industry, there's a wet lease and a dry lease, sort of moist lease. So, yeah, oh, it's a play of the lease. That's like a, like, when you buy a house and it's got mold and a, that's not, that's not, that's not good on that path, please. If I'm an airline, but I don't want to fly planes and I don't want to employ people,

I can instead wet lease a plane. I get the plane, I get the crew, I get the support for both. Typically on a 24-month contract, there's something like that. Oh, gross. I don't want to move the sort of like, there's something like that. Oh, gross. I don't want to move the sort of like, if he was not an employee or a contract model from delivering packages to delivering packages like. That are people.

Yeah, that are people. Yeah. All right. So British people, to Spain. So hypothetically here on Rasp Airlines, the like pilots having to like piss into a bottle up front. Oh, my God. I mean, that's a broad, broad, broad, broad, broad and airline better than that. I mean, that's kind of closer to like, I cannot stress enough how overworks all flight crew are.

Oh, yeah, yeah, especially the travel turn around flights like that. So this is great for these like packaged vacation deal companies and charter airline stuff like that. It's also been used to get around bands on flying planes into certain countries. So for example, a long time Egypt air was banned from flying into Israel. So they created a company called air cyanide and they wet least their own planes to themselves. They painted them a different color. Fluid them into Ben Gurry and international airport, known gave a shit. It's like the same Egypt airplane, but it's got like a big fake moustache and groucho glasses on the front of it. Yeah, it's like the air is real plane from airplane.

So on the other hand, a dry lease just gets you the plane, right? You don't get the crew or the supporter and just nothing like that. You just get the plane. This is useful knowledge for all y'all when you start your own airline. I understand is what the millennials are into right now. Oh, yeah, pronouns and stuff. Sing their own outlines. I mean, cause like, it's only really like flag carriers and stuff that own machine.

They airline. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, actually owning the airplane is like increasingly uncommon, just like owning anything. I mean, it's always a company. So's have done the money on renty thing. Paying for, paying for for a commercial airliner.

I don't want to fly on the plane that's being paid for by Klonna. Fuck me. You do three easy monthly installments of like, listen, if you can get a luxury good in pay and for installments, it's not a luxury good anymore. Looking your way Gucci. A lot of big industrial equipment like this is actually, you know, it's Luxury good in paying for installments. It's not a luxury good anymore. Look in your way Gucci. A lot of a lot of big industrial equipment like this is actually, you know, it's financed through some very convoluted structure where it looks like you still work at a company that wrote the software that handled this. Well, I'm talking to you. I'm talking to the audience.

I literally literally done a podcast like five fucking years about how every finance thing is a series of scams and I just get I still have it in me to be like shocked and concerned. Yeah genuinely. So this this wet leasing company

have bigger. Yeah, what's up? The focus to hate each other. Yeah. This leasing company, TEA, had bigger ambitions. They're like, sometimes in the late 90s, they had this bright idea. You're going to be a railroad till.

I look into some ICC filings back in the 50s about that. So sometimes in the late 90s, they had a bright idea. We got the crews, we got the planes. Why don't we become a scheduled airline? No, you're giving away free money by actually trying to provide a service. Get out of here. The opposite of the way the economy tends. So this, this as I understand,

I think I may be missing some parts here, because again, it's hard to track down the actual corporate genealogy of these things, but Helios Airways is born, right? And eventually they have enough business that they start dry leasing aircraft, including today's subject, they're following 737 with the tail number 5B, DBY from Deutsche Structured Finance and Leasing. Oh, no, that's ominous. This is like nobody joke about cringing Sky Hitler.

This is like nobody joke about cringing skyhittler. This is going to be the worst, like the worst ever interaction of German and Greek finance in European history. I'm pretty certain. Oh, no, they're from Cyprus. Oh, different. What? Yeah. Okay.

Well, that's, it's kind of, it kind of still works if you assume that I'm like a big sort of like supporter of Cypriot inosis. Yes. I mean, you know, everyone's mad at the Turks, that's what matters. Yeah, big handshake, mate. I also enjoyed the sort of like uninterrupted five seconds of blustering noises that I like groped my way towards a sort of like explanation to myself that it's like, I'm not stupid. So this is the plane. She's a box. Yeah, 737 31S.

First it's loan in 1997. I mean, this plane's not ugly. I apologize to the plane. It's like a beautiful one wearing ugly makeup. It's the livery. It's like very much the like this was the cheapest thing available. Yeah, this was desired in GIMP. Not in Photoshop in GIMP.

I have GIMP. Yeah, I have GIMP. Because we're cheap GIMP. I have GIMP. Yeah, awesome. Yeah, I have GIMP. Because we're cheap. We're not, we're blowing the money on headphones. We respect them enough not to blow the money on like Adobe subscription. Fuck's sake.

I have, I have Photoshop. OK, well two of us respect them enough not to blow them on the other sub-touch. This was delivered to the low cost airline, DBA, Lufart Giselle Shaft. Yeah, it's a travel society. It just means I have travel society. No, it's just part in here. Yeah. This is now part of Air Berlin. Erberlin, but eventually it's bought by the leasing company, leased to Helios.

I'm not entirely sure of when that happened. Again, it's remarkable how opaque, like to ask a question like points at play and who owns you is requires a quite convoluted financial investigation. Now you have to find who you're not allowed to criticize. So here's the thing about that quote, right? You know, that was a Nazi who said that. That was a Nazi who said, yeah, you're not allowed to say that. No, that was not right.

I just want us to clarify that. Please do come to our live show uh yeah we will tell you more things you're not allowed to say god damn it Alice so this arrives at Larnaca International Airport I don't know if that's good I don't know how to pronounce it. Larnaca would be my guess. Lannaka, it's a lot of cypress. I don't know. I don't know. Cypress has that same thing as Malta where it's like two in the middle of the Mediterranean

for a lot of the names to make sense because it's like a mishmash of like Turkish stuff, Greek stuff, Arab stuff. It's like weird crusaders coming through Venetians. Yeah. Arise at Larnica International Airport 125 AM local time on August 14th, 2005. It came in from London. And it was due to fly out to Prague via Athens at 9 AM. This is not a short turnaround time. It's not a particularly long one either.

I'm actually going to the red eye to Cypher's Monday. That's like getting in the morning. Yeah, it's about to say that's barely a red eye. That's more of a disruption to your sleep schedule. Yeah, you'll be shitting. Yeah. No, all right. I tried.

It's fine. What is that? Like a four hour flight? If that. I mean, yeah, it's like London to like par at London Paris. There's like one hour Berlin is two hours. Probably like, yeah, like three three and a half.

Three and a half hours. So I got on the planet like midnight and I get out and get out of one. Weird. Weird. Yeah. You get off. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

You get you get on. If you get more time going that way or less. Uh, so it's it's like ahead of London. So I'm zones are hard. Yeah. Um, I just think about how fucks it is being in an airport, sort of like late at night or really really early in the morning. Like, airports are weird places at the best of times, but like an empty,

sort of like 1 a.m. airport. So it's come to Cyprus, see the like beautiful sun, sea and sand, or don't, you know? Yeah. The previous flight crew had reported problems with one of the aft service doors. It was making loud bangs and strained sounds. And they wanted to trans women getting into synthesizers. Yes. They wanted the ground crew to check for leaks. That's particular door had a history behind it. In December 2004, when it actually caused a rapid decompression and forced the emergency to start the landing. Yeah, a bunch of guys got sucked out of the windows like gold finger. So no, there were no fatalities. They should have just their work. Good for overgot sucked out of the window and covered it up. So I suck on my gold stick now.

We've got sucked out of the window and they covered it up. Yeah, she's suck on my gold. No. Yeah sure No, follow follow that She suck on my gold figure until I explicitly decompressed that actually she kind of works. She she suck on my gold finger to like pussy galore Thank you. Wow. Thank you. Yeah, Mike's job. That's She did fly planes. Yeah, she did yeah So the ground crew went and did those tests Right, so you may have you may be thinking why is there a joke about I write since not tragedies I chimed in with a haven't you people ever heard of closing a goddamn door because here's the thing. They didn't

close the goddamn door. So I stole this directly from one of the flight reports into the Greek one or the English one. I can't remember which one. The aircraft ride at Lamarca, Lennarca, Cyprus at 1.25 a.m. in the early morning, it says 1.25 a.m. in the morning, 14 August, 2005. That was just a couple weeks ago during the flight from London to Lennarca. The cabin crew wrote in the cabin log that the Aster was stored 18 years ago. Actually, what did I say? That was just you said it was a couple weeks ago. Yeah, I met 14 August dude. I mean Don't also don't fucking tell me 2005 was 18 years ago. I wasn't I was gonna say It's like five years in the future. Yeah, yeah, it's 2002 Dine 11 has no nine 11 has just happened

We're all transported to the people the problem is if you were nine years old in 2000, you learn to calculate every day to 2000. And so the 80s were 20 years ago, the 70s were 30 years ago. It's a nice round number. It is currently 23 years into the future. So old dude. Hi, it's Justin. So this is a commercial for the podcast that you're already listening to.

People are annoyed by these, so let me get to the point. We have this thing called Patreon, right? The deal is you give us two bucks a month and we give you an extra episode once a month. Sometimes it's a little inconsistent, but you know, it's too box to get what you pay for. It also gets you our full back catalog of bonus episodes so you can learn about exciting topics like guns, pick up trucks, or pick up trucks with guns on them. The money we raise through Patreon goes to making sure that the only ad you hear on this podcast is this one.

Anyway, that's something to consider if you have two bucks to spare each month. Join at patreon.com forward slash wtyp pod. Do it if you want. Or don't, it's your decision and we respect that. Back to the show. Right. So the app service door. The door had frozen and hard bangs had heard during the flight. Yeah, the door seal froze like the rubber seal around it like froze solid.

Right. Yeah, the door seal froze, like the rubber seal around it, like froze solid. Right. And there was a request for the app service door to have a full inspection. So ground engineer number one reviews the entries in the technical log and determine that an app service door visual inspection cab and a cabin pressurization leak check would be required. He realized that he needs some help in performing that leak check. Therefore, he asked ground engineer number two to a system in their pressure run slash test

Another company engineer ground engineer number three authorize only on the beast of Boeing 737 800 aircraft was awaiting the arrival of that aircraft Assisted as safety man positioned outside the aircraft and to listen to any sounds of air leaking from the aircraft Okay, so these three dudes so we know that there's a problem. And the good news is that nothing bad is going to happen. We're safety third. Yeah, we have, we have got three men on the case. Yes, this is, it's an episode of top. This is where we had to learn about the procedure for checking the airplane for leaks. Speaking of seeing stuff you're not meant to see, this is like curiously intimate view of the aircraft. Yeah. Yes.

I feel like I, here's my collar to see the door. Yeah. It's glued. It's what it is. Here's what you do. Check the aircraft for leaks. You pressurize it on the ground. Smart ways into it in the air. Yeah. Well, I'd say they're a bad is easy. Well, hard to check for leaks on the outside when you're flying. Just climb around on the hours. We've got a guy from the Pakistani army.

By the helicopter, he's going to like go down on a winch. Can you fly this thing any slower? No. Sorry. Yeah, schedule passenger service with the, uh, uh, fucking what is it? The I.O. too? So you pressurize the plane on the ground. So you bring the whole thing up to slightly higher than atmospheric pressure, right? Um, you've done the tests and you figured out either it's fine for you're like, you know how to fix it, or you know where the leak is, you have a problem, which the aircraft is pressurized. And you can't just, you know, open the door because then you'll have rapid decompression in the airplane. You might break something or the door might kill you, you know. So that's not a good option.

People, like, have you ever had that sort of like intrusive thought in a plan? I was like, oh God, what if someone like tries to fling the door open from the inside? Yeah. Pressure is how you can only do that under 10,000 feet. Yeah, pressure is in your favor. It can be done, but not on the pressure because it pushes in to maintain the integrity of the pressure vessel, like a submarine.

But it's very, very dangerous if you are on the outside trying to open the door and it's pressurized. Now another option is to wait for the air to leak out of the plane naturally through the seams and the dorsen so on and so forth. It's certainly practical, but if the airplane has got to move now, you got to do the repairs now. So you got to have a third option. So there's the safety valve in the back of the plane and then a big door to let air out more rapidly. Right? So this prevents overpressurization of the cabin, which could happen if you leave the bleed air on for too long and can vent their pressure on command or as needed. This is controlled in the cockpit by a digital pressure control panel that DCPC, that's

this instrument here. You can buy like a replica one of these for like 249.99 from Flight Sim and you know the home flight simulator is not complete without it. No, I, amazing. You can simulate the usual pilot experience of using it, which is just leaving it on auto all the time and not paying attention to it. If you think that's going to be a crucial part of flight simulation. No, the way that I like to play this video game that I have spent 10,000 pounds of my own money and transformed one pounds of my own money

and transformed one room of my house into like a dedicated space for is to run checklists and the checklists show me that I should leave it alone. I should not touch this yet. I respect flights and people so much. Yeah, it's like, okay, listen, there's like, maybe a dozen controls, Max, that you have to touch when flying a commercial

airline or let's get real. You just have to know the other 10,000 so that you know, no touch them. Because like not touching it because you know what it does is very different from not touching it because you don't. Yes, this is true. So yeah, this is one of the millions of switches and dials and screen and so on. This is above the pilots on the ceiling, I want to say. In flight, you usually set this to automatic. That means it automatically maintains

some pressure equivalent to some flight altitude in the cabin. But if you're the ground crew and you're doing maintenance, you switch it to man, right? Which is the opposite of automatic. No, it's the opposite of so and but whatever. So that's manual, right? And then it's like, well, I can open and close this door, however I want, for any reason. You're the boss, right? Yeah. or however I want for any reason. You're the boss of it.

Yeah. So, you know, you're the ground crew. You've manually pressurized the plane to check for problems. You go up into cockpit, you switch it to manual, you open the door, and then you're done with your checks. You can start working on the problem. So, they did that. You know, they fixed the problem. So they did that. They, you know, they fixed the problem. The procedures at Helios Airways, it set up, instructed the ground crew to, quote, put the airplane back

to its usual condition, unquote, at the end of tests and repairs. Yeah. So help me got it better be the way that I found it. Yeah, exactly. So that's kind of vague. I will say that. So what what are happening is this remained in the manual position, right? Which had this big ass door open the whole way. So this is bad form, but it should have been a huge problem as checking the DCPC is in the pre-flight checks and the takeoff checks and the post takeoff checks.

Someone should catch this. This is why you have to know what all the shit does even if not to touch it is because the one time and a million you actually need to touch it. It's going to be on like three different checklists. And that's why you have to love checklists. Yes, you got it. You got to do the checklist. And then once you once you see that on the checklist, you go, oh, they left that in the wrong thing. Flip the thing, the whole dial on the bottom, like over two positions, probably. I'm dying of that today. We could have died in an interesting way if I hadn't done that very simple thing. I got it. It's a good thing.

It's all three separate checklists. That's kind of maybe that's why they make us do that. Interesting. This is a learning moment for me in my career. I somehow got to be, I got to be like pilot of a commercial airliner without learning this, but I'm discovering for the first time that there's actually a reason for this and it's not some kind of calf cask torchesist. Yeah, exactly. It's like breathing like nap of the earth, sort of like airline flying. Never gonna pick us up on radar. Yeah. So flight plans already programmed into the auto pilot, right? Yeah. I mean,

doing that's half the fucking work. You got to like, to type in a bunch of shit. It's like, I, you know, there's a little dialing I have to do, you know, set the flight level. And I don't know how they do it. Those things are confusing. I would expect there to be a keyboard or there are something. There are little keyboards on airbuses. Yeah.

If you want to die by wire, there's a little like, so they're low multi, the like MDT things. You can just be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be be is a part of my brain. And I have seen a guy program in a little like flight path thing on an Airbus and it is literally, you know, you have your waypoints and your type of things. Like it's kind of annoying and unergonomic and a little bit unclear but like and quite time-consuming but fuck a lot simpler than doing it with like a slideshow on a map, you know. Yeah. So flight 522 rolled on down the runway and took off and some weird stuff started happening. So they're sending to about 10,000 feet and they hear the little boom, that happens in the aircraft cabin when you reach 10,000 feet, which is not a warning that the planes

of wings are going to fall off. You know, but there's a certain type of wire who assumes that even though they know better, you can say my name. It's fine. In the in the cockpit, however, the pilots heard the take off configuration warning alarm. Third, the takeoff configuration warning alarm. You've set your flaps wrong, idiot. Yeah, exactly. Again, fuck yeah, yeah. All right, take off again. I'm really sort of like a bane for the bane for the aviator to be like,

you have just done like two or three checklists, you've got to do them all again. Because you fucked up. You're your flaps are at like five degrees the wrong angle. Go back and do your homework again. Yeah, you're going to have to fly back to the airport and take off again properly. So this alarm sounds when there's something wrong with the plane. Maybe the flaps are configured incorrectly.

The auto pilots on something that can affect the ability of the plane to take off properly. The wings are going to fall off. Someone you have a passenger who is, you know, they have, they're trying to call the flight attendant, but they keep pushing the engine fall off button. You have a flight attendant who has like severe anxiety, you know, CD and is about to cause the plane to crash by virtue of, I don't know, magical thinking. Didn't like how the slats were set up.

So, but this thing, it had been about four minutes since takeoff though. So, this alarm shouldn't sound after the plane is taken off. So the pilots started jiggling a bunch of controls. And I hear the switches doing stuff. The plane is giving me an alarm that makes no sense. Therefore, this plane dumb is hell. I'm going to ignore it. Yes. So they tried a bunch of stuff with like auto throttle, auto pilots on so on and so forth, they throttle down, they throttle back up again, they stop climbing for a bit, then they started again, but they're just trying to, you know, shut the damn plane up, right? And they're cleared to 34,000 feet. Now, there's also simultaneously there being shown issues with the cooling fans, right? Because the bleed air coming off the engine is very hot, so you need these big beefy fans

on the air conditioning unit and, you know, to cool the plane, cool everything else, you know. So for some reason, these are not functioning properly. And the pilots are like, well, you know, how the hell have we fixed this, right? Hmm. Go ahead. I mean, that's, that's, you know, one sort of. It's a thing that makes more sense than something you know cannot be at. Like, obviously, the fucking thing is, you know, it doesn't matter if it's correctly configured for takeoff.

So I'm going to solve this problem. I'm going to, I'm just going to refer you back to slide seven here, the one with the graph, the plane going up altitude with the sort of like symptoms of a high box here. one with the graph, the plane going up altitude with the symptoms of hypoxia. And so that in the course of climbing, you're now at 10,000 feet or whatever, that's for you, oxygen sats, heading like 90s to the 80s and you're getting drowsiness, impaired judgment, coordination and efficiency just for reference. So the pilot radio, the company dispatcher began running off sort of a checklist until a member of the ground crease.

Oh, it's like, fuck. Welcome to commercial aviation. Check if your DC PC is set to automatic. Oh, this thing I like only use for checklist and never look at. I'll the world. I'm not that's probably fine. Now the captain ignored this and radioed back. Where are my equipment cooling circuit breakers?

And then there's silence after that. I'm incidentally, I just noticed one little detail in the accident report, which is the, the piloting command, the captain, Hans Jürgen Merton, is described in the accident report, thusly. His East German heritage meant he was likely a man of few words who was not very comfortable around people, which is so fucking, he flew for interflug, the DDR's airline for like 20 years and this is like having someone in your Incident report be like yeah the pilot was Polish so he probably crashed because he was trying to open the

Screen door yeah well don't you know communist artism this is why the DDR was the greatest like attempt to implement communism was like it its consideration for the German autistic character. Genuinely, it's like, the pilot was great. It's probably fucking smashing plates up there. Just like it's going through the stereotypes. Yeah, exactly. It's like, oh, well, I mean, he was English probably.

He couldn't see the control panel over his protruding teeth. He's from the Czechoslovak SSR. He was probably trying to invent an elaborate pneumatic tube system to do the flying for him. Lots of little brass gears and stuff. Yeah, he was a Dutch pilot. He couldn't see because he was applying black face makeup. This I mean, we should reinvestigate tenorife, you know? Yeah. All right. So in the cockpit, people are getting increasingly confused. In a cabin,

it's fairly obvious what is going on. All right. At 18,000 feet, the oxygen mass dropped. And it helps you out as a passenger, but they only have about 12 minutes of juice in them. Yeah. And what you're going to do, get up only have about 12 minutes of juice in them. Yeah. And we're going to do get up from your seat where the mask is teard by the way. Yeah. Knock on the door and be like, uh, excuse me, I think you guys are flying the plane wrong. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, well, we'll get to that in a second. Um, you know, this is good enough for an emergency descent. Not so good if Nolan was able to initiate this emergency descent. So someone was going to have to get to the cockpit and figure out what the hell was going on. Getting getting dangerously close to the joke about, um, I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my father, not screaming and crying like the passengers in his car. So yeah. So we're going to talk about the cockpit door. There were these two flight attendants. And Dreus, Promo Dromo.

Promo. A Dromo. And. Harus Karolambus. Boyfriend a girlfriend, by the way. Yes. And Dreus is like a pilot. He's got like a commercial pilot slice

and it's not for jets, so I don't think. Yeah. He like agrees to cover this shift because his girlfriend's going to do it. And it's like kind of shitty. You know. So it's an actual airplane type situation. Oh, genuinely. Yeah.

And remember they have the like big honking scuba tank looking things from earlier. Yeah. So they have the big scuba tank things. So they have a lot more oxygen than everyone else. And so they're conscious throughout the entire flight, right? They have a chance of, you know, they want to get up to the controls and correct the cabin pressure issue or figure out what's going on at least, or at least maybe, you know, they want to get to the cockpit and see what's going on at least or at least maybe, you know, they want to, they, they want to get to the cockpit and see what's going on because, you know, the emergency descent

that's supposed to happen is not happening. But they face to problem, which is caused many problems through all of us. 9-11. Oh, God. Yeah. So after the September 11th attacks, there was a new push to universalize the practice of locking the cockpit doors so that the terrorists, high jackers who have presumably subdued all the passengers can't enter the cockpit and take control of the plane and 9-11 it. Yeah, the problem with 9-11 is like, obviously a lot of downsides. It did briefly make it way easier to organize home-built cableways in rural Pakistan.

This is true. Yes. You got to take the good with the bad. It helps a lot of people get to work on time and possible to say whether it's good or bad. Exactly. So this presents a problem for a lot of normal communication between the flight deck and the flight attendants, right? Sometimes it's useful to just be able to walk in and say, I just want to tell you all, good luck. We're all counting on you. Right? It's also a key part of doubtless future episode. My worst fucking nightmare plane disaster, the German wing scratch for the guy like fucking kamikaze is it into a mountainside. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of downsides to this practice. I was gonna mention it later, I did not take too many notes on it,

but this was something, the airline industry as a whole was against until 9-11 happened. Like this is probably gonna cause a lot more problems than it solves. And they were right. I think they were right on that. Yeah, no number of disasters with loss of all hands, solves. And they were right. I think they were right on that. Yeah.

Number of like disasters with loss of all hands due to impenetrable cockpit door at least two number of subsequent 9 11s prevented question mark, right? But like, think of that if the shoe barm guy had been able to get in the cockpit. Or thought to work out. Yeah. I mean, like genuinely, you cannot like, not as a member of Fly Crew set foot within two steps or even 20 steps of a cockpit door without everybody in first class lying on top of you

until you die a positional aspect. And we know that. And we know that because people have tried. Yeah, I mean, it's, I think one of the things that really prevented another 911 happening was 911. I mean, because you know, I used to be hijacking you. I'm always trying to go for that once, right? Yeah.

I'm hijacking was an exciting adventure to Cuba. And now it's a less exciting adventure to being smashed into a building. Everyone's gonna try. Put it on the quotes page. Oh, God. So, you know, people think I don't remember the fact put it on the quotes page. So, you know, people think I don't remember the fact that we have a TV tropes page with a like a religiously updated list of quotes. Whoever's doing that, I see you.

So, you know, if you are, if you're trying to hijack a plane for a nefarious purpose, such as murdering everyone, people are going to flight 93. I mean, genuinely, the only way to hijack a plane now is first become a pilot. And then if you do that, it is impossible to stop you. But like we have accidentally like made it like a foolproof method provided you become a commercial pilot first, the The German wings thing, arguably MH370, it's probably going to happen again. Yeah, pilot hijacking, it's a real thing. We

have made it impossible to do anything about now, which is not great. Exactly. I believe the senior steward or flight attendant is allowed to have the lock combination and no one else. So if they're incapacitated, that is an issue. You know, so this is a situation which is not great. It's not great that you know, you have two people who are capable of solving the situation, but they are prevented to prevent it from doing so by big government regulations.

Yeah. So we now have a ghost flight. Yeah. They're trying to like, presumably, batter the door down, which is, you know, nightmare, nightmare shit. The passengers are presumably running out of oxygen, seeing this happen, which is like, listen, there's a lot of like respiratory stuff.

The hypoxia potentially of all the ways to die, you could do a lot worse. He'd like, he kind of like fall asleep, right? And then whatever happens to you after that happens. Like a carbon dioxide poisoning, which is similar but much worse. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's similar to life stuff with nitrogenous places. Yeah, you just like fall asleep, right? The problem is, if you fall asleep in the midst of a plane disaster where you're seeing two flights

attendants try to beat the cockpit door down, I think that's significantly less relaxing. try to beat the cockpit door down. I think that's significantly less relaxing. That's kind of more of a problem. But yeah, eventually pretty soon, everybody, you know, definitionally, but, you know, I virtue the fact altitude is unconscious apart from these two. Yeah, these two and maybe like there's a Sherpa guy in the back. Yeah, but he's too busy. Fucked you on me to do it. Yeah, right. Yeah, I'm going to sit here. You just told me remain buckled. I am remaining buckle. Huh.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that'd be that'd be pretty awkward if he had like a the seatbelt line is ice ax on a man. Oh, man. All right. So we got a ghost white. There's no one actually in control of playing except the auto pilot.

And the old spot does a pretty good job. All things considered. Yeah, it just flies straight there. No problem whatsoever. You can program a route into it. It follows the route and no one even really. Oh, of course now. It's okay.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, okay, nobody's answering the radio. That's a concern. But like, honestly, pilots fuck up with their radios like way more than like like I get another thing that like 9 11 really fucked with the commercial air industries. Uh, shit was the fact that you had to be in like constant contact when more often than

I like to admit, if we've got like wrong frequencies and stuff, I'm just kind of like, there's a kind of okay. Um, Yeah, like planes like to stay up, they're about to do that. Yeah, exactly. So this is, this is photograph, which I got from the actual FAA website, which is apparently fake. Yeah, who's gonna say that it's fake, but. Yeah, well, it was on the FAA website

in an explainer on this incident. That's an exalt of misinformation. Apparently, there is the Hellenic Air Force, did take video footage of this. You will never see it. We will never see it. That is in a filing cabinet. So sort of a timeline here. The plane took off at 907.

The air conditioning problem was reported at 914, right? Plane reached altitude at 923 and it made it to Athens airspace and entered a holding pattern at 937. If you go back to that time of useful consciousness again, sort of academic, but yeah, you got like three minutes. Very, very short flight. I will say that. And at 9.37, it started happily flying in circles for a while while Athens air traffic

control spends a full hour and 13 minutes trying to contact it. I mean, again, understandable because like if you don't have communications necessarily and you're trying to fix it and you're busy running through infinity checklists, you're not doing anything that weird, you're not like pointing it at the Pentagon or I guess in this case the Acropolis, right? Like, so you know, you keep watching the things, you guess in this case the Acropolis right like so you know you keep watching the things you keep calling them on the radio and it's like well. Well so about 1054 the Athens Joint Rescue Coordination Center was notified of a possible rogue aircraft so naturally the fighters were done over easy. Oh yeah. The fighters were the fighters were done over easy.

Oh, yeah. The fighters were, the fighters were, were benedicted. Yep, yep, yep. The post was the fighter omelette was, was a fighter, oh my god, Shaqqa. That was actually pretty good. It's when you like, you know, get cubes of, of siguk into the sauce, into the, into the, into the fighters. Yeah.

Export F-16s, man, I love them. It gives me some real arsenal of democracy feelings. I don't know why. It's just to be like, yeah, it's sort of the generation that goes fighters. And you know, now they're going to Ukraine. So, yeah. So, so they scrambled the F-16s. I don't know if it was like a harder or soft scramble. Sometimes I like a, I think there's merits to both, but I think a soft scramble is a lot better

if it's on its own, but a hard scramble is better if you're like putting it on a F-16 bacon and cheese sandwich, you know, anyway. So fuck you. They make visual contact with the playing around 1123 and by 1132 the nature of the problem has been discovered. The oxygen has been deployed and everyone slumped over in their seats including the pirates. Also, I feel as if a visual contact undersells how fucking insane it is that, you know, it still fly the play next to an eyeball. It literally like look out the canopy, look in the windows. Can you see anything in there? And they presumably had to get close enough to be able to say, yeah, the oxygen masks are down like, I think that got binoculars or something. Honestly, probably not like, it just look at their like way, yeah,

because you've got to fly. Did the thing. That's some real. It's a nice. That's something that was almost but not quite miraculous. It happened. Oh, yeah. This one's the slide that makes you sad.

Yeah. The flight that makes you sad, it's like, the flight that makes you sad over the period of about two to three minutes, depending on physiology. Yeah, the flight that kills you very slowly. I wouldn't say 12. Yeah, it flight that kills you very slowly. I wouldn't say 12. Yeah, it's fine. So Andreas Pramadramma and Harris. Sure.

And now Andreas Pradramma and Harris, Carol Umbas, which are these two and Drases on the right. Harris is on the left. The two flights attendance. Yeah. So we don't know how they did it, but they did it. That in with the knowledge of how to commit another 9-11 to their graves. Yes, this is true. What? They broke the fucking unbreakable cockpit door down the unbreakable door. Yeah, which is

kind of a point, like if nothing else, another point against the unbreakable cockpit door is Clearly, it's that's all unthinkable now. Is it yeah? Like it clearly you can you can get through it if you're like determined enough and you have enough time They could have they could have gotten some help from the Sherpa guy in the back is just like reading a newspaper, you know So the guy in the cockpit, right, around 1154. Plain has been circling Athens for around two hours and 20 minutes at this point, which is longer than the flight. For him.

So he gets in the cockpit. And Dreus gets in the cockpit. He gives the F 16 pilots a wave from the cockpit. And it's sort of like I am not the al-Qaeda sort of way. Yeah, I'm not an al-Qaeda guy. He gets to work trying to fly the damn plane. He's got a UK commercial pilots license, but his never flown a 737 before. Yeah, pretty, pretty big jump apart from everything else.

I should also say, like a commercial pilot's license doesn't necessarily mean much in this context, doesn't even mean jets, just means like you can take pain passing just can literally be a sassana like. Yeah, exactly. So now the big problem was that literally within one minute of when they got in the cockpit, the left engine flamed out. Yeah. Right there. I was just like, oh man, God damn it. Damn it.

You know, he sent out three Maydays, but there wasn't a lot to be done at this point, right? I have a really like heartbreaking detail here, which is because he didn't know how to work the radios on a 737. And I still shoot into Lanaka instead of Athens. So he sends out these three mateys that like, are barely heard and not at all in Athens. Yeah, yeah. Saw that, that was pretty fucking heartbreaking.

It's pretty heartbreaking. I mean, the whole thing is, it's like, you know, what can he do other than steer the plane away from populated areas, which he does. Right. He manages to like, uh, set it to a not 9-11ing the Eccroplus course heroically. And then the number two engine flames out also.

They say of the Eccroplus where the Parthenon is. There are 9-11s. There's no 9-11s, yes. You know, this is where there was an alternate timeline where they get in 10 minutes earlier and they can do something about it. I mean, I don't think it's completely unrealistic that you could have air traffic control, try and talk them down.

I do. I have a fun theory about this because one of the statistics I think about the most is number of people who believe that they could like land a commercial airline or if the pilots are incapacitated. There is polling on that and man, it's like, I think it's only 5%.

We're going to in four of you. It's literally, it's like, I think it's something like 5% of women, but like 20% of men. Oh yeah, absolutely fucking believe I can do it. If you, if I had, if I could just be talking to you down, absolutely no fucking problem. But they tested this too. And this is my favorite part, was they tested this by putting a sample of people with no training in like training flights, immueltist. And no, simulator and no chance.

This is a person who's actually a pilot though. I mean, I guess. Yeah, he's just not trained on the 737, right? Yeah, he's not trained on the 737. I don't know what his familiarity with like auto-pilot and stuff is like, but you know, this is something that, all right, you're very close to the airport. You have a fully functioning airplane. You have limited fuel, but like, this is a landing. This is also like a modern airport with like all the instruments to get

you down to the runway. You know, you're looking at a problem, which is less, you know, I have to learn to fly this plane more. I have to learn to set the autopilot. I'm still do this. I think there's a lot of issues here that would have sort of impaired the ability to do stuff, but I think if you had 10, 20 more minutes of fuel, you would have had a much better situation. Now, if you have one engine flamed out, that's a different situation. Right. If he managed to like glide, maybe that

was unavoidable. Yeah. Right. They would have run out of medals to give this guy. Right. And his girlfriend, like these two would have been like earth president. They would have cut out the big gold face on the tail and awarded it to them. Yeah, as well as they should have. I mean, but no, we don't we don't get to have we don't get to have the. We don't get to have the. We don't get to have the cool. Those fun jokes. No, this is going to add very poorly. Yeah. So, you know, the best you could do was steer the thing away from population centers You know and so the plane crashed into a hill just north of grammatical Which is northeast of Athens?

It's pretty gnarly crash. I mean that I strange thing to say I have like an a crash, but like we've seen there's a line of crashes and then there's an island crashes. This is not not exactly like a lot of flat fields in Greece. No, you can land a plane, you know, no, you you you get soup like homogenated. This is an interesting question as well. So it's something that came up with actually the challenger disaster is, like, were any of these people besides the two of them with the box, just applies conscious when this happened? And I mean, listen, the decreasing altitude means that, like, yes, it's possible, but but you've been up there

so long. A hypoxia, it's just going to straight up kill you, or at least vastly, vastly, and you're not going to be aware of what's going on if you're even still alive, which I don't think you will be. Yeah, it was just them and the Sherpa and the back is kind of like this. It was all just going through all the mini bottles for a flash. Right. We've now used this, this Sherpa is a punchline enough time so that I want to plug the

documentary Sherpa because it's, it's a genuinely like, I've done this purpose like as a harrowing fucking launch. Oh, yeah. I mean, those people are, those people are very mistreated by horrible rich people who go to Everest. So it's a Hawaii there where it's like no rich people terrorists, you know, fucking horrible to everyone who works for them and around them. But yeah, so the thing just like hits the deck, Adley. Yeah, and Gad, very, very rough landing.

Yeah, everyone dies 115 passengers, six crew, total of 121 people dead. Yeah, a bunch of like predictably sort of heartbreaking stories about this, where I just like wipes out entire families. And as you can see here, it just like sheers off the tail, which like comes to rest on this sort of like dirt road. So sticking up in the air, very sort of strange vibes. So yeah, that's, that's how that ended. Well, that's how flight 522 ended, but there's more corporate history as a result of this. Yes. This is a nice delivery.

They've kind of done a better job on this one. It's like it's five of the Greek flag clearly with the horizontal, blue stripes. But the alpha on there, it's nice. Oh, yeah. So hold on, who brought the first paragraph here? I got the second one. Oh, well, it, okay.

I'll take this anyway. So, so, Helios on the 29th of August, they go, okay, we've checked all the planes. Plains are fine. We're back, we're absolutely back. Realizing that crashing the plane is sort of like bad for the brand. They do a rebrand and they change the name from Helios Airways.

They get a slightly more expensive rebrand to AlphaJet, and she meets Alpha because it's like an Alpha. But what happens is the sip-riot authorities get them. They freeze the accounts. The term for this for an aircraft or a boat, by the way, is arrest, which I find charming. They arrest all of the aircraft or the accounts of frozen. And I think as much as we say that the ideal airline owns no planes and conducts

no economic activity whatsoever, when you have to actually do that, it turns out that you have to kind of file for bankruptcy or stop operating. Yes. But they lost a whole year after this. Just pay in your debts. Just keep paying the debts. If you can't sell more land to pay the debts, yeah. If you can't sell the debts, then you have to stop operating.

And that's what they do in 2006. And you know, you get down to the nasty business of what actually caused the accident here, right? And as usual, with airplane disasters, there's a huge combination of factors. Swiss cheese, right? You got the, you know, for for one to the nail, if the guy had like turned the thing back to automatic or if any of the three checklets had caught it. So, yeah. So the, uh, one of the main causes of confusion turned out to be that the

takeoff configuration problem alarm that the pilots thought they were hearing. Oh, yes. Was the same alarm as the cabin altitude warning alarm. It made the same sound. It's just that the takeoff configuration problem alarm couldn't happen at altitude, but they were probably much more familiar with that one than they were for the cabin altitude warming

morning alarm. So context clues. Yeah, I mean, I feel like that they're both, you know, potentially kill everybody alarms, but I feel like the cabin is depressurizing alarm should be a little bit more vivid. Maybe it should be a different alarm. Yeah. One that goes fucking put on your weird flesh colored oxygen mask now, idiots. You should just have a thing that comes down from the roof of the cockpit, even if it's not the cool mask, you still have to have a Bucks in glove on a spring Yeah Just getting punches really hard on the head and he put on the mask

So you know the pilot of course this is also an anti-hide jacking measure right if you if you get a pilot who looks like he's gonna Maybe kamikaze the aircraft what you do, you hit the button and it gets clocked in the head really hard with the boxing. Boxing love comes out. You know, he gets put on a pair of Acme rocket skates. And he has, you know, they send them all the way to the back of the aircraft on those. You get like a, yeah.

Like every aircraft has a Sherpa in the back like an amosho. Oh, yeah, what they don't tell you is that the Sherpa was actually in the back near the tail and he just sort of walked out of the bathroom there. At the end of the after crashed. Gave him a very bad yell preview. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 121 deaths and one guy who got like had to get a

cab. Right. Yeah. So, you know, of course, because the alarm and the other alarm were the same alarm, the pilots of course mistook the problem for another problem took action accordingly. Super helpful. We don't know how they miss the pressurization setup since the flight data recorder only records the last 30 minutes of the flight. Well, I'm sure we can speculate that perhaps based on the fact that the dude was east to German. Maybe we could be like, yeah, you probably missed it because he was like eating brat-verse or something. I you would think since he he was autistic, which is what communism does apparently, he would be extra into the checklist.

You would think, yeah, yeah. I mean, did interflogue have like a whole loss accident? I don't even know if they did. So maybe, you know, probably the sort of the German mind guided by the structure of the folk-sign in the Betriebe is like sort of the most efficient and safe sort of method of administration. I don't know. Yeah, there were three points where there should have been checked. I saw the issue of the maintenance guys, you know, leaving this in the manual position when they probably shouldn't have. And this is also where you look into the blame on the airline specifically, you know, where are these maintenance procedures?

These critical maintenance procedures not spelled out more clearly, why is it so on and so forth. And then of course, there's the controversy about the cockpit doors. Like, is this whole post 9-11 security theater thing where we got to lock the cockpit doors is this causing more problems than it's solving. I think this is an incident which kind of proves that You know, this is a little bit more This can cause problems in ways that were not anticipated You know we're in emergency situations. No one can reach the pilots when the pilots are screwing up. Yeah. I mean, short of like, I mean, it's not to distract us from the thing, but I think about pilot hijacking all the time and sort of like putting the fucking suicide squad brain bomb in them,

like, you can't have the ability to like, open the door. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, it's not good to have these guys just completely sealed off. You know, if you're medically sealed, right? And like if you tried to 9-11 somebody now, right, and you didn't get positionally as fixated, like, you know, they didn't like break into the cockpit through the eminently breakthrough of Bulldoor and Kaleo. Right. They would shoot the plane down.

Like you have a much narrower window now to 9.11. They would call up Amy McGrath and have her shoot the plane. That's right. Yeah. They would, they would do your pregozion style. Like you wouldn't. Yes. They would do your pregozion style like you wouldn't yes. So did anyone get punished? Oh, I wrote this slide. I have some lessons. So first of all, well, all of the people who lost family members through no force of their own got punished extensively.

But yeah, so they sued Boeing. Boeing settled out of court for, I believe, and undisclosed some surprise surprise. The Cypriot authorities put four airline bosses on trial. The CEO, Chairman of the board, Chief Engineer and Chief Pilot. That trial collapsed. There was like a Miss trial or retrial went to the Supreme Court collapsed.

So they were all acquitted. Then three of them, plus one other guy, I think this was the Chief Engineer actually. I called Alan Irwin. They were put on trialling Greece for manslaughter. on trialing Greece for manslaughter. And it's just a system in this way. But I kind of like appreciate a justice system that does not like sending people to jail, but it turns into a bit of a far software while it's the same as when Burlusconi was like in and out of technically being convicted and stuff.

They, like all four of them got convicted, they didn't have to go to jail because they had appeals pending, which was, you know, must be nice, right? That one guy, oh, and he appealed successfully and was acquitted. Everybody else, the other three, had to go to jail or pay a 79,000 Euro fine.

Which, in context is not a lot of money. And then the chief pilot, he doesn't go to jail anyway because he's Bulgarian. And the Bulgarian government asks the Greek government nicely. Hey, don't put our guy in jail. So yeah, two guys go to jail off of this for corporate manslaughter for, I have 10 years. And the FAA makes Boeing put two additional warning lights in the cockpit. Wow, we got a 737 recall out of it.

That's like most of what happened. Yeah, you got you got a full like airworthiness directive, which is you have to install two lights and a box and glove on a spring that say that say that the the cabin is deep rush. Hey, dummy. Yeah. There's a an interesting long read on in the Guardian from 2020 about this guy, Alan Irwin, which has answered like, it is, you know, what the process was like for him, which was harrowing. And he feels that he was kind of like the full guy of it. I don't know. that he was kind of like the four guy of it. I don't know. But what we learned from it essentially is almost nothing. Yeah. The helios like really, really fucked up. All of

the sort of like crisis response PR curious detail that this all runs through one company. There's one company called Canyon International Emergency Services, which essentially does all of it, like a shitload of airlines and stuff, keep them on retainer for crisis PR. And this time, because they were worried about the legal repercussions, they didn't do any of the touchy-feely stuff, where you get a personalized lesser of apology or whatever,

and said it was just like they just locked everything down. And so nobody heard anything from them for a long period. Which... You're a fashion way. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, like a railroad that killed 400 people and burning passenger cars. Yeah, these days I think the done thing now is more sort of

ostensibly compassionate and they sort of like jump on that, but in this case, no, very much not. It is still kind of cynical though that there's a whole firm out there where you're like, oh, yeah, yep. Yeah. Oh, all right. We have a problem. Can you fix it, please? Yeah. And I'll personally have compassion for anyone, but we need to keep up appearances here. They, I mean, listen, on the website, they describe themselves as a world leader in disaster management.

Um, the world's leading full service disaster management company. In fact, here's how to make sure they don't put it in the newspaper that you got mad. Yeah. Essentially. Yeah. Because everyone's dead. This is who you should hire. If you, if you ever feel like you're going to really fuck up on like a global scale, uh, yeah, fried not to 9.11, the Acropolis, right? Yes. Yeah.

If there is a risk due to your job that you are going to 9..11 the Acropolis, right? Yes. Yeah. If there is a risk, a juicier job that you are going to 9.11 the Acropolis, this is the kind of company that you want on retainer. Yes. Yeah. Real grim. And of course, not too long later, the German wing's crash occurs. Yeah, it's like what, like, the fuck?

When was that? I was in college for it. I remember that much because we didn't start out of the name, maybe. Vividly, but I don't remember what year it was. I don't like, picture myself. It's 2015. So like 10 years. Yeah. So like the, the security theater aspect of,

of keeping the cockpit door locked is, um, you know, obviously still at least two, two aircraft down, mostly because of it, right? Yeah. And the other way, just just like make it like this sort of like regional turboprops, which is just like a little curtain, you know. Yeah, exactly. I'm gonna 9-11, the, you know, the faraway islands or whatever. So just a little curtain. Yeah. Well, I think we found that we've learned nothing from this. No, absolutely nothing. It's just a sort of like horrifying experience. And that's the well-earsure problem promise.

This was going to be something where we could like talk about crew resource management or something. It was bad. Yeah, it was bad. That one guy was the German kind of communist, right? Yeah, apparently. I mean, there doesn't seem to be like 2005. Yeah, he hadn't been a communist like presumably, definitionally for like 14 years at that point.

Yeah, it's kind of like, well, this is, this is a problem that could have been solved by having two separate alarms. I mean, just have one of the make us slightly funky noise. Like that that literally it like, yeah. Well, segment on this podcast called safety, third. Hello, and welcome to Well, there's your gas leak a story about negligence without slides. Until last week, I was an engineering intern at a large German engineering firm. Y'all have definitely heard of you vastly overestimate the number of large German engineering

firms like a name. I can think of several. For you, of course, you can. I'm the fucking comic relief idiot. Oh, I thought I was the comic relief idiot. You have an engineering degree. No, I have a mathematical economics degree, Alice. Same difference.

Like that's like, you know, I don don't I don't have a bachelor's yet It could be man. It could be Siemens. It could be ABB. It could be Ryan Metall if you want to get like really filthy with it I'm not allowed to say it was So They took safety very seriously the fact three in the US. I was I definitely can't say it was What is a German company that acts like the Germans and the Simpsons episode where the Germans take over the power plant Safety very very thousand minutes Simpson, Homer, that is all.

They took safety very seriously at the factory in the US. I was at because they were in the process of expanding and wanted to demonstrate to the higher ups. They could handle the expansion. A few weeks before my plan departure, an incident occurred. Being on a research and development team, I was in the back part of the fact three where my team would assemble their prototypes, which are just eight foot tall sheet metal boxes

that has industrial electrical components. Again, we want to speculate as to what company this is. No, explain, I'll explain after the episode. Our workspace is adjacent to a long-term storage room that is separated by a metal wall. I was working with another intern one afternoon assembling one of those big metal boxes while two veteran employees were using a forklift to move even larger metal boxes to even longer term storage somewhere in Texas. At a certain point, over the dinner of the factory and the sound of an impact driver on a metal box, I registered a wishing sound from the storage room.

I registered a wishing sound from the storage room. It had been going on for a good 30 seconds when I realized the sound was out of place. I turned to look and I saw an abandoned forklift with a 12 foot metal box on its forks and one of the two guys very casually walking away from the scene and the other nowhere to be found. Moving closer to the investigation, moving closer to investigate, I saw a little bit of red caution tape furiously flapping at the end of a two-inch wide white painted pipe that was hanging down from the ceiling about 12 feet from the floor. That caution tape doing the job of Paul Revere there. Yes. I was immediately hit with the smell of natural gas. I started moving away, telling the few employees I crossed path with,

crossed paths with, as I left, until I found a manager who might know what to do. You didn't hit the fire alarm? Is there a fire alarm to hit? Like... who might know what to do. You didn't hit the fire alarm? Is there a fire alarm to hit? Like... Well, he told me to leave and he started making phone calls. Oh, boy. Not wanting to cause a panic, I left through the factory and out of the office

with the other intern without telling anyone else. Oh, boy. I walked alongside the guy who I saw leave the scene, at three first grabbed his lunchbox before going outside without raising any alarms or even telling anyone what had just happened. Did it? Bit.

It was a full three minutes before anyone pulled the damn evacuation alarm. This fact three has close to 200 people in it at any given day, so it was a couple more minutes before everyone was out of the building. Eventually, the fire department shut off the pipe and air it out the building. While we waited, I got to hear about how multiple people had nearly knocked the cap off that hard to see an easy to hit pipe and the company hadn't done anything but put that little red flag on it. The fire department told us we could go back in after a while but the company just sent

everyone home for the day. Their official report placed blame on the guy driving the forklift who had to redo his forklift training and made no mention of why they decided to paint a natural gas pipe white and leave it hanging down from the ceiling in the first place. When I left, it was only marked by the little red flag. That little red flag is like the sole thing keeping this factory from disaster. Oh, I did. For one to a little bit of like red caution tape. Yes. You all keep

up the good work from Fologus Monk. Wow, the Fologus Monk really worked with you. I can't say whether. You just go back and bleep every time we've said the name. Oh, yeah. That'll be like, leap in a, like a really Germanic way, like, give me like an Alpenhorn or something over it. And no, no, no, lead in. So people are going to be like, was that was like like a fucking fluke for like three minutes until I get to this. So that was safety third.

Please just hit a fire alarm because a natural gas thing is like this, there's going to be a situation where the fire alarm is relevant. If you don't hit the fire alarm, this is true. The note here says our next episode will be a sick as live show. Yeah, I write that when I was possessed by a sort of like Australian aura. That's a fucking CK live live show. Out of the Franklin music hall. Yeah, so come to the live show. Please come to the live show.

We're gonna hoon the podcast. We are going to hoon the podcast. Then we're going to have a Barbie. That's right. We're going to have a, we're going to, we're going to, what are the things that are in Australia? Races of, yeah, we're going to do some races. We're going to do a lot of races and we're going to stop the boats. Yeah. We have, we have a PO box.

We have a Patreon user can subscribe to, we had a bonus episode approximately once a month, the current one coming out shortly is gonna be on Legionella. It's out. Oh, it's out perfect. We have a, what the fuck else do we have? Yeah, if you wanna submit a safety third,

it's been a minute since we plugged that, if you wanna submit a safety third, a story of like, you know, a sort of informal civilian near miss reporting system, but you can talk about some dangerous shit that you did or happened to you. Send an email to wtyppodatgmail.com. Yes, you could keep it to about a page worth of text. If you send some pictures, that's also very good. Let us know what you want to analyze

because anything you say Justin will read. Well, just read it out. Yeah, I will tell you, I will read everything out that you send us unless you say specifically not to read it. And then, yeah, that's how you submit a safety third. Well, thanks for coming everybody. Yeah, I was about to say thanks. Thanks everyone.

If you made this far in the podcast, outdoor show, fuck you come to our live show. Come to the live show. They'll don't like, don't subscribe. Come to the live show. All three like and come to the live just like, I got rid of them. I think it's a bit of dislikes. I don't know. I don't know. I barely pay attention to the like, I think it breathed dislikes.

I don't know. I don't. I barely pay attention to the platform that provides the majority of my income. I was about you can dislike it. You know, I think nothing makes sense out. We're we're like, we're subscribers away. Oh, fucking do subscribe. I want my plaque. Yeah, you can subscribe and then dislike. Subscribe. Dislike the podcast. You can hate watch our podcast. That's true. You can talk about how people have problem as we are. Yeah, we can call us out for our anti-share for racism. You can hold us accountable.

That's true. I bring us to a high altitude. We're probably not going to press it. Do not do not pressurize us. Bye everybody. Bye. Bye.