Well with Arielle Lorre - 101: Intuitive Eating + How to Trust Our Bodies with Evelyn Tribole, MS, RDN

Episode Date: March 17, 2021

In this episode I’m talking to co-founder of Intuitive Eating, award-winning registered dietician and author of nine books, Evelyn Tribole. We dive deep into diet culture and how we are disrupting trust with ourselves every time we try to fake out hunger. We get into intuitive eating: what it is, how to start, and how to build back trust with our bodies; how to deal with cravings intuitively; breaking away from food fear; transitioning away from tracking and counting; the danger of social media and eating disorders, and so much more.   www.Sakara.com/BLONDEFILES  to get 20% off your first order www.Lesserevil.com  with code BLONDE for 25% off your first one-time order www.KinEuphorics.com/BLONDEFILES  for 15% off your order plus FREE shipping www.Upstart.com/BLONDE  to find out how Upstart can lower your monthly payments today   Produced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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From how to achieve optimal health and well-being to the best beauty tips and everything in between, no topic is off limits. I know there is so much information out there, so I'm here to help you navigate it all and live your best life. Thanks for listening. Let's get into it. Hi, everybody. Welcome to the show.

I am really excited for you to hear today's episode with the co-founder of intuitive eating. Yes, it originated with her, Evelyn Triboli. This is a super powerful conversation that is just so full of wisdom and takeaways. And you should definitely get out your notebook or open up the notes app and your phone. There are just so many aha moments in this episode. And I kept having light bulbs and I think you will too. and you'll definitely want to remember what she said. So Evelyn is an award-winning registered dietitian with a nutrition counseling practice in Newport Beach, California.

She has written nine books, including the bestsellers, Healthy Home Style Cooking and Intuitive Eating, and Her Newest Book. And her newest book is The Intuitive Eating Workbook, 10 Principles for Nourishing a Healthy Relationship with Food. Evelyn was the nutrition expert for Good Morning America and was a national spokesperson for the American Dietetic Association for six years. And she was also contributing editor for Shape Magazine where her monthly column appeared for 11 years. And so in this episode, we dive deep into diet culture and how we are disrupting trust with ourselves every time we try to fake out hunger. We get into intuitive eating, what it is, how to say. start, how to deal with cravings intuitively. We talk about breaking away from food fear and transitioning

away from tracking and counting calories or macros. We also get into the danger of social media and eating disorders and so much more. So enjoy the episode. Okay, so welcome to the show. I'm so excited to have you here. I'm thrilled to be here. This is such a big topic. And I want to know how you feel about this because you kind of designed intuitive eating like 25 years ago. And now I feel like it's getting co-opted everywhere and it's very trendy. But my audience in particular really struggles with this. And I've been very vocal about my own journey with it. I've gone from eating disorders to disordered eating to now, you know, this place of food freedom and and what I believe is pretty aligned with intuitive eating. But everybody wants to know how. And it's very difficult for me to

articulate, you know, there are so many different components. Oh, there are. And, you know, I had people sending questions for today's episode, and there were just so, so many. So really excited to have you here. Maybe to start, you can just tell everyone a little bit about yourself. Yeah, well, I'm a registered dietitian, a co-creator of intuitive, like you said, over 25 years ago. And it really loved telling a little bit about our origin story. And that is, you know, Elise and I, Elise is the co-founder. We're both trained in diet culture. I have a master of science in nutrition, you know. And we were using those traditional techniques of food planning and all that kind of stuff and seeing it wasn't working and people were feeling miserable and blaming themselves.

We like, you know, there's got to be a different way. So we really dug into the research. We considered our experiences and some other things going on and came up with this model. And that has so far stood the test of time. We can say it was research inspired, but now there's over 140 studies on our work really showing benefit. And it blows me away. So yes, on the one hand, it's getting in popularity for sure in the culture, in social. media, but what's happening, it's been continually being validated and growing in the research world. So there's really something to it, you know? And so when I see it co-opted, it's, it's infuriating in part because we design this model to help people cultivate a healthy relationship with

food, mind, and body. And usually when it's co-opted, it's something with diet culture in terms of changing body size. And the fact that it causes harm, that's what really gets me, you know. So I always say if someone's offering intuitive eating with any kind of weight loss or problem, like that run away. They don't know what they're talking about. They're using our model in a way we do not intend. So yeah. So just right off the bat, what is intuitive eating according to your model? You know what? I define it in so many different ways depending how I'm talking with. So one way I like to describe it, it's a self-care eating framework where you're the boss of you. Only you can be the expert of your thoughts, feelings, experiences. Only you know what satisfies. And there's something very empowering

about that. Because when you think when you've been stuck in diet culture or disordered eating or whatever it is, you've given all your power away, you've given your agency away to the diet plan, to the guru, to the influencer, everyone except yourself. And I think part of the reason, intuitive eating can feel so daunting. I have people who like want it, they hear someone like you describe how you're feeling and yet they're terrified. And I'll ask, you know, how often in your life growing up till now have you been taught to really connect and listen to your body? And usually the answer is not at all. And I said, well, can you see then you're starting from such a place of not having that value to experience. Of course, you're going to feel wobbly, you know?

And it's really, really normal. It's still really normal to still have desire to change your body, even though that's not the purpose of intuitive eating. But it doesn't mean you can't be an intuitive eater. So there's no pass or fail. There's no, even the 10 principles or guidelines are not these rigid rules that you have to, you know, precisely abide by. I feel like it's so challenging now because with social media and influencers, it's so easy to look at somebody else. And of course, you're looking at their highlight reel and you don't know what's really going on behind the scenes. You don't. And this is what I fell into when I started my Instagram account five years ago

and I was going through all kinds of different things. And I would kind of latch on to what other people were doing. And so it's really difficult. And I was so detached from how I really felt and we're so distracted now and we'll get into all of this. But, you know, whenever I talk about my own journey, meditation was such a big component of it. It was like coming home to myself and coming home to my body and really getting to know myself. And I know that when I say that, people's eyes glaze over if they hear like meditation. So if somebody were to ask you, like, how do I start? How do I become more aware and adopt this approach? What would you say to them? You know, and this is where I'm always looking at connecting and what's important to the individual.

So if I know someone's glazing over with the idea of meditation, I'm not going to go in that direction of that languaging. So I tell you where I tend to start. I start in the middle. The fifth principle of intuitive eating. And that is, what would it be like to aim for satisfaction in your eating? And people get really curious about that. And in terms of what sounds good and how do you want to feel when you finish? I can't tell you what sounds good. I can't tell you what feels satisfying. I can point you in the direction. So a lot of the work that I do, I sometimes call myself the tour guide. I can take you on some rides. I can point some things out. But ultimately, it's your experience. And I find the idea of satisfaction because it's pleasant and pleasurable. It doesn't sound so daunting, you know?

And so, for example, if you start off in a place where you're really over hungry, does that feel good to eat that way and do you usually feel satisfied? Ultimately, if you under eat, that's not satisfying. Ultimately, if you eat in a way that you're uncomfortably full, that's not. not satisfying. And so it's getting really curious and without judgment. So then when I might ask somebody is, what would you need in order to do just that, you know? And so then we start breaking down some of the barriers and the obstacles. So I'll give an example. I get a lot of pushback on. Ideally, when this is brand new to you, it'd be really helpful to eat without distraction, you know, because you're trying to listen to your body and what tastes good, all those kinds of things. But if you're busy surfing, you know, your social media feed or watching TV or whatever you're doing,

then you are being pulled away many, many, many times from the present moment of what's happening with your body. And so what people say to me is, oh, my God, I don't know how I can do that. What would I do if I'm not doing these other things? And that's when I say, well, let's put your awareness on taste or let's put your awareness on what does it taste like in your mouth after you swallow. They use this in wine tasting. It's called the after finish, you know, and just getting curious about one aspect. How about even the question, do you even like whatever it is that you're eating, you know? And so only you again can have the answer to that question. And one of the things I'd like to emphasize about this, this is not a journey of perfection. This is a journey of discovering.

And so if you can only do this one meal a day, yay, good for you. If the idea that even doing this for one meal is too daunting, okay, what can you do? What sounds reasonable to you? We are in a pandemic. People are stretched to the limits. The capacity is like, eh. So maybe, maybe can you pay attention maybe for three bites, the first bite, the middle bite, wherever that is, and the end bite, whenever that is. So looking at these things in terms of what, what am I willing to do and what sounds appealing to me? That's the way that I like to start off with this. I love, love that principle. And that actually helped me so much. And I tend to, you know, I get distracted while I eat. I really try to do it with no distractions. But even today,

I was like sitting outside, enjoying the sun, eating my lunch. And I was thinking, okay, I'm eating for satisfaction. And it really, really does help. But I had a podcast on, actually. And I was like, I wonder if this is cheating. And then I go to, well, I don't want to make rules around this because that's not intuitive either, right? So I have this tendency and I'm sure other people do too to get rigid with things. And I get really passionate about whatever it is that I'm doing. So how can we kind of avoid that with intuitive eating as well? Well, you know, I loved how you recognized it and you reframed it. So sometimes I even look at languaging. It's like even the word cheating. It's like, oh, that sounds like diet culture.

When I hear the word cheat, I automatically like cringe, it's like, no, you're not. So what do we have to recognize is this is we are human. We're not perfect. And let me share with you, I ate my lunch standing up today in the kitchen because I knew we were having this podcast. And I didn't want to be going in a thousand directions. So you don't have to do this perfectly. I just find in the beginning when you're new to this, it's really helpful. But I don't want to have people think you have to light a candle and meditate, you know, in order to do this.

And so what I would be looking at, what has it given me the most pleasure and connection to while I'm eating? You know, it's possible that you could be enjoying a podcast and the sunshine and eating outside and it's not pulling you away. But if it turns out, you discover, oh my God, this is such an interesting topic. I totally didn't even pay attention. And that might be okay too. So it's really, really up to you. So it's a gentle journey of compassion and getting curious. you know? Since we're talking about mindful eating, I want to talk about mindful snacking. We live in a world

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They will take 25% off your first one-time order if you go to lesser evil.com and use the code blonde. That's B-L-O-N-D-E for 25% off your first order. One of the questions that I get most frequently when I bring up this subject is, well, I guess it's twofold. I mean, there's a lot of fear around trusting our bodies. right? And going from whether it's counting calories or counting macros, I was part of the macro group. And I mean, those numbers followed me around for so long. It was so challenging. So a lot of people

want to know, like, how can they begin to trust themselves? They're afraid of what's going to happen if they start listening to their bodies. And then the other part of that is like they say, you know, intuitively, I want to eat the whole sleeve of Oreos. So how do they work with that? You know, that one always cracks me up when I hear something framed intuitively. It's technically not, but it's a fear. Let's just call it what is. It's a fear. So let's take these one by one. Okay. So, you know, I'll never forget reading a joke years ago. Something like, you know, if we were meant to be counting and tracking all these things, God would have put calculators on our tongue. I love that. Never forgot that image, you know? And you think about some of

these countries in which they have really great longevity and great health. You don't see their grandmas and grandpa's, you know, counting macros. You know, so. Chicken breast. Yeah. Yeah. So what I want to say, number one, it is not necessary. You know, our body has all this built-in ability to do this.

However, the fear is understandable because we live in a fair-mongering culture. Diet culture is fear-mongering. And every time that you've ever gone on a diet, no matter what the great intentions were, it's a profound trust disruptor. Every time you try and fake out hunger and fake out hunger, it's a profound trust disruptor. So it's understandable. You'd feel wobbly. It's one of the biggest questions I get I get asked. And the way I look at it, you know, if we flip it and say, maybe your body doesn't trust you, that if you want consistent feedback from your body, we need to be kind to it consistently.

So I'll take the biggest example I get from this. You know, somebody, you know, counting macros, counting calories, and basically they're under eating. And then something happens. An event comes along, a stress comes along, a motion comes along. And all of a sudden they can't stand it. and they're into whatever food was off limits. And they watched themselves with this high urgency intensity. It's like, oh, my God, I can't stop eating, you know? And that's a direct consequence of deprivation and under eating. That's the body trying to survive.

The little cells are going, oh, my God, we finally get to eat the cookies. Go now, go, go, before she changes her mind. And so that creates this distrust. And we can recognize this is survival. It's no different than if you hold your breath for a long time. And we were talking before we even started. I live near the ocean. I play in the ocean.

I surf. I'm a newbie surfer. And I love it. And when a big set comes, you go under and you hold your breath sometimes for a long period of time. And when you come up, you go gigantic inhale. And no one calls that loss of control breathing. No one says, oh, my God, you're addicted to air. It's a known compensatory effect for air insufficiency.

And so this is what happens and creates this push pull, you know? So I say the fear is understandable. So let's go slowly. What do you need in order to feel safe to make the first step? It's normal when you've been counting calories, it becomes a habit of mind. An example I like to give is, you know, I usually like will hike or walk or something in the morning. And I say good morning to people behind my mask. But every once in a while, if I'm sleeping in it, it's in the afternoon, it's afternoon.

I'm saying, good morning, good morning. And I'm feeling silly, but I don't have any guilt or shame. So counting macros and counting calories is kind of like that. What happens in the beginning as you're getting into this, that's been the way. you've ruled your eating. But as you start to pay attention to your body, that becomes the dominant focal point. And that macro, I call it calorie awareness or macro awareness kind of fades into the background because it has less meaning to you. So over time, I want you to know it will fade. And so this fear that you'll never stop eating, I find is more a reflection of the deprivation. If you've had a lot of time

in dieting or you don't even relate to the term of dieting because you follow different food patterns, You know, diet culture has been so sneaky. It comes by all these different names. It's understandable that the fear would be there and what you'll see. Oh, actually, what's your story? Have you found that the more you've that you've had ease with eating, the less of this fear is there? Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, in the very beginning, this is maybe two or three years ago at this point, but when I stopped counting macros, I don't know what I thought would happen if I ate over whatever macros I had allotted for that day. but yeah there was really intense fear but nothing bad happened you know and isn't that amazing yeah yeah yeah i mean i literally it's like you get this this feeling like you're gonna blow up and explode or something

if you eat over your your macros um at least that was my experience but you know at the same time when i stopped counting macros is when i also started doing meditation and so it kind of happened like in concert with each other and you were ready couldn't have come at a better time yeah because you know, I do TM, I talk about it all the time. I'm kind of an evangelist because it was so profoundly impactful in my life. And just having those two times a day where I come back into my body, especially in the afternoon, you know, after I'm doing the emails and this and that, and we're getting pulled in so many different directions and I can sit there and really feel my body again. Is that profound? Yeah. And someone at the time said to me, and this may have originated with you, I don't know,

but he said maybe what you think your body should look like and what your body thinks it wants to look like are two different things. Well, that happens a lot in our culture, yeah. And I just had this like aha moment where I was like, oh yeah, I've been like forcing myself into this box, you know, and it was so, I mean, I just got to the point

where I was so burnt out. And it's stressful and it pulls you out of life and in the present moment. So here's the other thing I want to point out because you mentioned this and this is a really good point. So what happens is when you're used to counting macros, and then you perceive that you did something wrong, there's a tendency to react and micromanage. Oh, well, I'm going to have less dinner. Oh, I'm not going to have that snack. And what you rob yourself of is the experience to see what your body naturally would have done. And so my suggestion would be, well, let's, okay, so let's just go ahead and say you ate to the point of really feeling uncomfortable at lunch. Let's see what happens in the afternoon. Let's see if you get that normal midday hunger or let's see what happens at dinner. You know, what your body wants to do. And when you start saying, oh, my God, my body's working.

We start to heal. You know, every time you honor hunger with each bite of food, you're cultivating trust. There's healing and repair. That's what I want people to know that this is possible, no matter how long you've been steeped in whatever diet culture, macro counting app that you've been involved in, you know? And there's no shame in that. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's the other component of it. Like even before I started counting macros, I was binge eating because.

I was restricting breakfast, lunch and dinner, restricting food groups. And by 10 o'clock, you know, I was eating two pints of halo top with microwaved quest bars on top because it was diet food. And then I felt so terrible about myself. So the next day, I would try to overcompensate with exercise and more restricting. And then I'm more hungry at night. And, you know, it's this vicious cycle. And I know that so many people who are probably listening can relate because I get the questions all the time. And I'm like, I am not an expert on this. I just, you know, luckily, was kind of forced into submission because I hit a rock bottom with it. And, you know, like I got to the point where I just couldn't function.

And I look back now, I've always been in a thin, petite body. So that's the only experience that I have, but I look back on those pictures. And, you know, I was so thin. And that wasn't my experience at the time. I was just trying to. Yeah, you know, I was moving the goalpost and it was never enough. So well, and a couple of things in your story that are so important. And a lot of people don't know loss of control eating. That's actually a phrase they use in the research is a common thing that we see

with dieting. And unfortunately, most studies don't measure for it, but the ones that do, we see it all the time. It's been demonstrating kids, adults, teenagers, you name it. It's been looked for. It's been studied. So for those who out there listening to this, and that's been your experience, I want you to know that's a normal compensatory effect. Your body's trying to correct the situation. but it just doesn't feel good. So know that it's full. Oh, and part of the answer is coming back to your body and nourishing yourself, which sometimes sounds very also.

Find that there's a healing and just being able to acknowledge, oh, this is normal. I'm not the only one that's had this happen or this. I've had patients also described that they're one bite away from a baby. Actually have loss of control eating. It's like this spring wound so just attack the food. And that's your mind trying to help you. That's your body trying to help you, you know.

I know that a lot of women who follow me are also dealing with things like gut issues. And, you know, right now, especially in L.A., and I don't know how it is in Orange County. But everything is gluten-free, dairy-free, sugar-free, soy-free, grain-free. And, you know, I've been on that end of the spectrum, too. And I understand how hard it can be when you are experiencing things like, you know, digestive upset and stuff like that. but how can we approach intuitive eating if we are dealing with these kinds of issues? It's a really good question. And so here's the thing to know about this.

There's a lot of misinformation on dealing with these issues in which food has been used as the cure when it's not. I happen to have a specialty in, well, I'll say gluten, but it's actually celiac disease. Because my son, when he was a toddler, he's an adult, and I was diagnosed with it. So I got deep into the weeds in the research and then also working with patients with skin. and seeing all the research. And so a lot of it, especially in LA, has just been really trendy. So here's the challenge and here's the problem. I want to acknowledge that when people are suffering, they want to, they're going to their

doctors and they're not giving them something that's a satisfying solution. They're still in pain or they're bloating and feeling miserable. Here's what I want everyone to know, that the more restrict food, that in of itself, can create functional issues in which you have profound bloating. and pain and nausea, I would say, if you believe you're having some kind of intolerance, it's really important to really get a medical evaluation and really figure out if that's the case, because if not, you might end up amplifying the problem and making it worse, you know? In fact, I'm doing a live on this topic, intuitive eating and food intolerances on Thursday because

this comes up. So let's say, that's one part of the story. Another part of the story, it's you've been evaluated and you have some intolerance or an allergy or something, you can listen to your body. And what I find, this becomes a different issue. I'm going to do something really basic like lactose intolerance, you know. If for some reason you were to have milk and you know your lactose intolerance, not going to feel good, but it doesn't cause any damage to your body. And so it becomes an issue of choices and consequences.

And it might be, you know what? I feel good when I eat this. I've had the experience of it. I know it to be true for my body. And I'm feeding myself food. You're not going to get into all that loss of control. eating and so on. There is a way through this. That's what I want everybody to know. Part of wellness that isn't often talked about is financial wellness. And I remember personally

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Again, that's upstart.com slash blonde. You guys know I'm all about nourishing my body with the most nutritious, wholesome ingredients I can find. And honestly, with so much going on lately, it can be a struggle to find the time to whip things up from scratch. I know you guys can relate to me on this one. So if you're in the same boat, or if you're just wanting to start incorporating more plant-rich meals into your life, Sakara makes it so easy. Sikara is a nutrition company that focuses on overall wellness, starting with what we eat. They have organic ready-to-eat meals made with powerful plant-based

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eliminate bloating, minimize sugar cravings, and reduce fatigue. And right now, Sakara is offering you guys, our listeners, 20% off their first order. If you go to Sakara.com slash Blonde Files and enter the code Blond Files 20 at checkout. That's S-A-R-A-R-A dot com slash B-L-O-N-D-E-F-I-L-E-S to get 20% off your first order. Again, saccarra.com slash blonde files and enter code blonde files 20. I just did a podcast this morning with a woman in the UK who's a gut health doctor researcher, Dr. Megan Rossi. I don't know if you're familiar with her, but we were talking about this idea of restriction as a way to treat gut issues. And she said kind of something similar to what you just

said, which is like, we want food to be the cause and we want it to be the cure. And that's often the only part that we look at, you know? And especially with things like IBS, she was talking about the gut-brain connection and how important that is and how important our behavior around this is and how the thoughts that we have around what we're going to eat can impact us more than the actual food can impact us. And then if factor in stress, stress has its own amplifying impact as well. Yeah, I completely agree. Yeah. What is the intuitive approach to cravings? This is another question that I get all the time. You know, people ask, well, should I just give in to whatever I'm craving? Or should I, I don't know. I don't know the alternative.

It's actually a really good question. I get lots of themes around this. And so what I would suggest is to get curious about it, you know, if it's truly a food craving, having the food usually takes care of it, if, however, it's something deep or deeper, it has to, it doesn't be that deep. Let's say you have a need that's not getting met, you know? You need some stimulation or because you're really bored or you're lonely and it's been chronic, then we need to start asking, huh, what am I feeling right now and what might I need right now that deals actually with this feeling if food wasn't available? And to know, food can certainly be an option. I always put that in in part of the equation and look at that. This I find is where the deeper work

needs to go. That I find with a lot of people I work with because they have shame or they're judging the eating as being wrong and to get into this all or none. Oh, well, there I go. I'm blowing my plan and they tend to eat in a way in which they are not feeling good when they, when they finish. So whatever the coping mechanism is, I would hope it would be whatever it is that you choose to do to self-soothe that you don't feel worse in the long run. So looking at all these things. So it's not, it's not a simple answer, but the process is what am I feeling right now and what do I need right now to deal with that. And if you choose the food, this is easy and challenging at the same time. What I would suggest, if it's really, oh my God, those chocolate brownies are calling your name and you're going to

have them. Great, fantastic. How can you eat them in a way that you're going to truly connect and enjoy them? And so if you're eating them and then being in an argument with your roommate or your partner, I would suggest that's not the, you're not going to get the full, the full satisfaction and experience of that. So looking at the way in which you can enjoy and savor every bite of it. another question that a lot of people have is can we intuitively eat and care what we look like? How do those work together? You know, that's a really big question because, you know, we live in a culture that is so fatphobic, you know, and when we start looking at the roots of diet culture and fat phobia, there was a brilliant book by the academic Sabrina Strings called Fearing the Black. body, the racial roots of fat phobia, or the racial origins, rather, of fat phobia. And so this has been

our culture for a long time and that people get social currency based on appearance, especially women. There's a lot of objectification. And so what I'd be looking at is what is the cost to you in doing this? You know, if you're saying, oh, you know, I want to put my makeup on, do these kinds of things, they're not a big deal. But if you're starting to try and change, like you were saying, the genetic destiny of your body, that's going to be putting you in harm. So, what? over and over and over again. And so it's looking at what is happening. Is it pulling you out of your life? Is it causing you anxiety? And where this gets really difficult, it's when you're, when someone is in a marginalized body, let's say they're in a fat body and they're trans or they're black.

Culture treats that person differently. They're met with more hostility. So it's understandable. They'd want to be engaging in practices where they feel safer. So what I like to to do with that question is, is looking at what it is that you value so that we're connecting with our humanity. And for those that are just starting to have families or thinking about families, what values do you want to raise your kids with? Do you want them having that as their number one value, for example? And one of the things that seems to strike a note with a lot of people is this idea that, you know, it might be daunting to change the culture, but you know what? You can end the legacy of diet culture in your family at your own kitchen table.

And what would that look like? You know, that all bodies are worthy of dignity and respect, that we don't gossip about bodies and we don't denigrate one food and reify one food over another, things like that, you know? So there's a lot of nuances in that. How do you think people best manage kind of living in this climate and being on social media and being exposed to, you know, influencers and models and what they're eating and just this diet culture that's like so

accessible now, you know, before like when I was, I mean, I'm still young, but when I was young at a really impressionable age, we had like magazines and, you know, still diet culture was there. And I remember trying the cabbage soup diet when I was like 12 years old because I heard that, you know, you could lose weight doing that. That was my first diet culture memory. But now it just seems like we're so inundated with it. Do you have any advice? I do. So, you know, you started off with social media. So my, my suggestions there would be is to start taking a look at your feed and curating it and start first bringing in diversity, diverse bodies, doing diverse things. I just started following curvy girls surfing. Oh, my God. All different kinds of bodies to see that

you can be engaged and living meaningful lives and not just getting the one viewpoint that you see. in traditional media. So diversifying body types. I'd be looking at anything that's promoting diet culture before and after pictures, anything that's making you feel bad about yourself from an appearance-based thing. I'd really look at muting it. And where this gets really hard is sometimes you're following influencers that maybe are steeped in diet culture, but there's something about their personality or their humanity that is appealing.

And so therefore that makes it a little bit difficult. But just notice how it's making you feel. The other thing I think is so difficult are all the filters that people are using. And so what we're saying is not even real. I see that more on TikTok. Someone had just told me that there's over 200 million hashtags on TikTok on intuitive. I've got to check this out. And there's a lot of eating disorder stuff. I think that's what we need to also name is that the more you stay focused on appearance, the more you stay focused in this diet culture is increasing the risk of eating disorders. And those can be deadly. You're also, increasing the risk of weight cycling, increases weight stigma. We've seen, by the way, eating just have doubled in the last time period in which they've been looking like. So this is not something without harm. And the thing that really gets me, too, when you start looking at the body of research, that anyone who tries to do intentional loss, the vast majority of people will regain the weight. Most people will gain back more weight than what they lost. And one of the

biggest predictors of weight gain is intentional weight loss through dieting. You know, isn't that kind of shocking. It's creating the opposite of what you have. And I think with social media, with all the visuals, it makes it same, oh, this will be me. I'll be the exception, you know? And so that's why we have to get a little, and that's why I'm thrilled that you're doing this. We have to expose this for what it is. It's a sham, you know? I used to be a before and after picture posting influencer. Yeah. Back when I was doing macros. And, you know, I really thought, because I had gone from binge eating and this kind of crazy cycle to macros. I initially thought that macros was equal to food freedom because I went, wait a second, I can eat all this food and, you know, still maintain my weight or whatever. And

obviously, you know, I kind of woke up from that. But yeah, it's tough. I know on TikTok there's like so many what I eat in a days. And I do a lot of recipes. So I'll share what I eat in a day. Kind of as an example of like how much you can actually eat because so many of those videos on TikTok that I've seen are like, not to judge anybody, but you know, just like so little food. But then I also feel like, well, maybe I'm contributing to it. I don't know. It's really tough to find that. You know, it is. How am I helping and how might I be harming, you know? And there's been a fair amount of influencers who go get really into the food and posting on that. And then three years later, oops, I had a eating disorder, you know, the passion was actually a sign, a symptom of the eating

disorder, you know, and what's really interesting, that's what we see, too, people that really get into all this stuff get really self-absorbed, not on purpose. That's part of what happens to the brain. It gets, you get food on the brain all the time because your body is trying to like throw pictures out you, like, maybe you'll eat this. How about this? And so you're constantly thinking and talking about it, not realizing that the people around you aren't necessarily interested in that. And then you disconnect from your relationships in the here and now. That's one of the biggest things. I hear. I don't see it posted so much on social media, but it's like, wow, I was checked out of my own life. I wasn't present with my partner. I was constantly hangary and edgy and yelling at

my kids as much as I don't like to acknowledge that, you know? And so it's looking at some of those painful realities, not with shame, but through this lens of compassion that you were doing the best that you could, usually with really good intentions. I've had a lot of people I talk with that I just wanted to be healthy. And then you get down the rabbit hole. And now you're just the opposite of that. You know? Yeah, and it's so easy nowadays. And then, you know, on the other side of those, what I eat in a day is that I just thought of, somebody sent me a message saying that she feels so bad about herself because she sees people with perfect bodies posting like days where they're probably, they're saying they're eating 2,500 calories or 3,000 calories. And so she's saying,

well, why can't I eat that and look like that? And so I think either end of the spectrum, you're right, you have to be really careful about the message that you're sending. Yeah, and you know what? This isn't going to sound really crude, but I find it impacts my clients. I'm just going to say it here if I can. In a way, it's similar to going to the bathroom with somebody. They're in the stall next to you and you're listening to how much they're peeing and you're trying to match the amount.

Oh, my God, I didn't pee as much as they did. Or did I pee too little? Did I pee too much? And I know it's funny when we talk about it because we don't have a frame of reference. We're not judging that, you know? But yet that's what we're doing with our food, but it's a similar, similar idea that we have different needs and our bodies genetically are meant we have diversity in body size and shape is really a thing they've they've uncovered all of these old ancient statues of bodies of all these different

types of forms and I think that's the part we'd need to come to terms with you know and I think what makes it difficult is diet culture is also hijacked health care you know I have it from my patients my doctor said and it's like okay now I got to explain what's going on in in medicine so I think we have to acknowledge that the pressure and the perception is real, but look at what it's doing to your quality of life. You're constantly comparing. You know, what's that famous saying? You know, comparison is the thief of joy, you know? It's the fastest track to unhappiness. And instead, getting connected, what, what am I feeling? What do I want? What do I need? Because also, when you're not nourishing yourself with enough food, you don't have the energy to enjoy life so much.

And sometimes, well, you know, I'm going to give this example. Since you're in California, you'll get this. So, you know, we drive our cars a lot. And sometimes, I know, I don't get to the car wash often enough or wash my car enough. I'll go to the car wash and I come out. It's like, oh, my God, how was I seeing before? You know? So sometimes it's not until you're out of diet culture. Do you realize, oh my God, how was I living that way, you know? Yeah. But there's also so much what happens in our culture, it's complemented. Eating disorders behaviors are complemented. When you compliment someone's body, you have no idea what they're going through. I've had patients with raging eating disorders who've been complimented, you know, by strangers

and other people. And here they just had a really horrific day engaged in eating disorder behavior. Or maybe someone just miscarried and that's why their body size is different. Maybe they've got cancer and don't feel like talking about it. And then we just end up creating this body hierarchy. So what if instead that we look at complimenting something about your humanity is like, oh my God, I'm so, I love your energy. Or every time I'm with you, I feel so seen by you.

Or geez, you look so happy today. You know, what's going on? And so getting it, so these are small things we can do. And it's surprising how it takes a little bit of effort in the beginning when we're used to complimenting bodies, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm curious what your thoughts are on kind of this body positivity movement on Instagram. I've talked to other experts, you know, and they kind of all agree that you're still focusing on the body.

whether it's smaller or bigger. Like there's still the focus on what the body looks like. Right. And so there's still an objectification of it. And so there's many, many different levels of it. And when you start looking at the origins of body positivity, it is about liberation,

liberating from oppression, you know, the black body specifically. And so it's been co-opted in a way that it wasn't intended and also to liberate fat bodies as well. And so one of the things I like looking at, so that's why we need to look at, how can we get, you know, dismantle these systems of a problem.

oppression, but also just looking at that we're more than a body. You know, let's connect with our humanity. What if we had unconditional positive regard because you're a human, that we have respect and dignity? There's a new book that's out by the Kite Sisters. They're twins who have PhDs in, oh my gosh, it's a body image-related doctorate program. And on Instagram, they do beauty redefined. And their book is called More Than a Body. And they've raised a really many, many, many good but also very actionable points that when you just start objectifying yourself, looking at yourself with the lens of a gaze, you're not a human. And you're not connecting with your qualities.

And this degrade your quality of life. So it becomes a shift, you know, in looking at these other things. Right. Amazing. Well, if you have a couple minutes, I would love to do some kind of rapid fire questions. I love your energy. So I feel like you'd be good for this. I got so many.

Okay. Let's see if there's anything that we didn't. cover. Is there ever a time that intuitive eating is not appropriate? You know, that's a really good question. And so one of the, you know what, we didn't really talk about the details of intuitive eating. So one of the thing, another definition of intuitive eating, it's a dynamic interplay of thought, instinct, and emotion, meaning we also have our wise minds. Sometimes our appetites are offline. You know, when you're stressed out of you're sick, we can still do nourishment as self-care. So my answer is we don't do precise on your hunger in

these cases. We do nourishment as self-care. And we need to remember there's 10 principles. So there might just be some that are more in the background. But I would take it on a case-by-case basis. You know, if you're in the throes of an eating disorder, we can still do intuitive eating, but you need to be doing it with your team and the right kind of timing and so on. So yeah. Did you ever struggle with disordered eating if you're open to sharing? I'm open to sharing. I have a really unusual background and the answer is no because. I've only been on one diet in my life and the second time I thought I was going to diet. I was really thought about it. I was making my debut on Good Morning America as their nutritionists. But what's different about my history? And this is because I'm 60. I shouldn't

what was my age. I'm 61. So when I was in high school, they didn't have a girls track team. They ran on the boys. So I ran on the boys team and I beat the boys and I lettered. And I was always looking at what can I eat to beat the boys, you know? I love it. So I'm happy to say I didn't have an eating disorder or disordered eating and I'm very, very lucky. I think culture is a different time and I was so connected to my sport. But it's different today. I work with a lot of girls and athletes who have eating disorders because of the fat phobia that's in sport. So I think it's a good question. I'm happy to share that. I will say this. A sad story is I grew up with the dieting mom. And when she was diagnosed with cancer at the age of 64, we were sitting together before she got the official diagnosis and she stood up, assessed her body, and she said her biggest regret, all these years of dieting, all I want to do is grow old and she died, you know, three years later. So I grew up with that and I was just very lucky she didn't voice it on to us kids, you know, but that fueled my passion even more so.

Wow. Oh, chills. How do I know if I'm hungry versus bored? We kind of touched on this, but do you have a quick answer for that? Wow, when you said quick, now all of a sudden I stopped. Or long, whatever you have time for. Okay. I think I've got time.

So you know, here's the way that I do this. You get curious. It's ambiguous. That's a tough place to be. So a couple ways you can do it. If you're hungry, it's going to get intense. It's going to, with more time, it's going to amplify. So you could delay if you want to.

If you're bored, then you can be looking at, okay, what's a meaningful engaging activity that would do it for me? And that's sometimes hard to do. So I think it's helpful to find activities that you get like maybe little games on your phone or sometimes even just social media. When I get bored, I go on to TikTok because it's so fast, although sometimes I get I get sucked in. So what will happen is if you're doing this out of boredom, but it turns out it's hunger, all of a sudden that hunger is going to be, you're going to have, you're going to have clarity. That's what this answer is about. You need clarity. So I'd

give it some time. Yeah. How can somebody not overeat or binge when being intuitive? That's a big and good question. So part of it is staying connected to your body. And it's so interesting they paraphrase when being intuitive because sometimes I see this happening. And it sounds like it was part of your story is that when you're not getting enough to eat, there's going to be compensatory eating. I wouldn't even call that overeating, but it doesn't feel good at the time. So I'd be looking at making sure you're nourishing your body with enough food and in a timely manner because you can have enough food.

But if it's eight hours ago that you last eight, we normally need to eat every two to six hours as a general guideline. So I would stay curious. If you find yourself in the position of that eating in a way that doesn't feel good, is to ask yourself, oh, what's going on with me? What was that, what was the kind of the trigger into this? And what might I do differently next time? So it's getting curious with kindness. That's a mindset that takes a while to develop, to be honest.

A lot of people are very harsh on themselves, which makes it harder to figure out the way through, you know? Yeah. Well, you are such a resource, and I'm sure everybody listening will go follow you and you have so many amazing books and you've devoted your life to this. Is there anything that you're working on right now? I know you have a book that you want to talk about.

Yeah. Yeah. So you know what? I do. I have a book coming out in March and it's intuitive eating for every day, 365 daily practices and inspirations. And what it is, there's little like little things you can do every day.

You know, the intuitive eating book is kind of big and really unpacked the research and the why and the case studies. And the workbook is great too, but it goes deep down. down in. These are just like little inspirations, little, little mantras or little ways to cultivate trust to kind of give you an idea. And then, you know, what your followers can do if they're really curious and want to hear more. On January 4th of this year, 2021, I did a 10-day series that has videos. That'll kind of give them a taste for this because I find sometimes in the beginning,

people get intrigued, but it's so daunting. And this is a way to kind of ease into it. It doesn't cost anything, you know, so yeah. Yeah, and that was very helpful. That's on your Instagram. Yeah. So I'll put a link to it. that in show notes and we'll put a link to the book as well. Where can everybody get the book if they want it? Actually, it's available wherever books are sold. Oh, I should tell you this. If they pre-order it, they get some bonus goodies, including attending my book launch and also getting some downloadable audio meditations for me all time. So also on Instagram, you can look at the link of my bio and order it that way. So amazing. Yeah. Thank you. Well, thank you so much again for coming on.

Where can everybody find you on the internets? You know what? I think that the, The fastest and easiest is the Instagram at Evelyn Tribley. There's the website, it'sevlentripply.com, and then the intuitivating.org. So those are the major ones. So, yeah. Amazing. Well, thank you so much again. I hope you enjoyed that episode.

If you liked it, and if you like the show in general, please take a second to rate, review, and subscribe. It goes a long way, and it's actually the best way to support the show. Also, if you want to see more about each episode, you can head over to The Blonde Files podcast on Instagram. I'm always posting about each episode there or over on my personal page at Ariel Laurie.