Well with Arielle Lorre - 120: Body Love, Beauty Standards and Whether to Have Kids w Liz Moody

Episode Date: July 14, 2021

In this episode I’m talking to cookbook author, content creator and podcaster Liz Moody about social and culture issues that we face today. We discuss how Liz left NYC during the pandemic and adopted a “nomad life” with her husband; how to move through fear and the scary stories we tell ourselves; how to incorporate daily micro-moments to counteract stress; today’s beauty standards and how Liz found peace with her body; how to reconcile loving ourselves and also changing parts of ourselves and how to navigate a beauty obsessed world. We also go in depth and explore why attractiveness is so lauded, the challenges of aging in this climate and finally our conflicted feelings about having children.   www.DrinkLMNT.com/BlondeFiles to claim your free LMNT Sample Pack, you only cover the cost of shipping. www.HelloNed.com/BLONDE for 15% off your first one-time order or 20% off your first subscription, plus Free shipping. www.Dipseastories.com/BLONDE for your extended 30 day free trial. www.PublicGoods.com/BLONDEFILES for $15 off your first order.   Produced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Sovovue Sovue Go to your Reisadviseor Orsoniccars. The following podcast is A Dear Media Production Hey, welcome to the Blond Files podcast. I'm your host, Ariel Lori, and I'm here to talk all things

wellness. From how to achieve optimal health and well-being to the best beauty tips and everything in between, no topic is off limits. I know there is so much information out there, so I'm here to help you navigate it all and live your best life. Thanks for listening. Let's get into it. Hi, everybody. Welcome to the show. I have a really full. fun and interesting conversation for you today with my friend Liz Moody. And I just listened back to the episode for editing purposes. And there were just a couple of things that I wanted to note before we get into it. So first, we really didn't talk at all about Liz's forte, which are healthy recipes. She's really amazing at thoughtfully developing them. She has two healthy cookbooks.

So definitely check those out. She also is a great storyteller. And she's a really interesting follow on Instagram and TikTok and her podcast, of course, healthier together. So there's that. The second thing is we were really unpacking why it's so important to some of us, but also our culture as a whole, to be attractive. And her way of looking at it sort of stumped me during the recording because I just hadn't really thought about it before. But after we finished recording, we were talking about pretty privilege. And that is a very real thing. So I just didn't want to ignore that stark reality if you're listening to it and you're like, hello, there are so many reasons why people want to be attractive because attractive people have so many more opportunities, sadly.

So I will be really interested in your thoughts when you listen to this. So make sure to share and tag us when you are listening with your own thoughts. And yeah, so with that said, today, we are talking about, of course, like why we pedestalize attractiveness, but we also talk about how Liz left New York City during the pandemic and adopted a nomad life and how she kind of moved through the fear and the scary stories that she was telling herself of all the reasons why she couldn't do that. We talk about how to incorporate daily micro moments to counteract stress today's beauty standards. We talk about how Liz found peace with her body, how to reconcile loving ourselves and also changing parts of ourselves and just kind of how to navigate a beauty obsessed world. And we're What else? We talk about the challenges of aging in this climate. And also we talk about our conflicted feelings about having children, which is also really fascinating because I feel like there aren't really other people in the public eye on social media who talk about this really openly. And Liz just has a really honest perspective on it. And it was refreshing to talk to her

about that too. So with all of that said, please enjoy Liz Moody. So welcome Liz. Thank you. I'm excited to be here. I'm excited to have you here. We were just kind of talking off Mike about the last time we recorded together and it was like a different world. A literal different world. We were both sick, which I just think is so funny now. The idea of like going to work or going to hang out with somebody when you're, I had just gone up a plane from Colorado and like the day before and I had a full-fledged sinus infection and was like dripping. I'm like, no, it'll be fine. We'll be great. Yeah. Now I vaguely remember there was some tea happening, right? Were we both drinking tea? Oh, I thought you meant like spilling the, tea like you were gossiping. I'm like, yeah, I feel like it was a juicy episode. I mean, it was. So if people haven't listened to that one, that's a good like introductory one to listen to before we do this. Because I feel like we'll dive a little bit deeper into some of the topics. I feel like

we both kind of shared our dark histories I did on your interview of me and vice versa. Yeah, on your interview that I did on your podcast, you were a very good interviewer, obviously. but yeah, there was definitely stuff that I had never talked about up until that point. And I think that there were some things on my podcast too. Yeah, yours was like, I feel like you're ready for your TV movie. If anybody's listening. Well, you have had a very interesting past year as well, as we all have. But you, last time you came on the podcast, you were living in Brooklyn, had your life together there, you know.

And then COVID came along and upended all of that. and you've been kind of living the nomad life the past year. And you've also just blown up on social and TikTok and Instagram. So I would love to hear how that happened in terms of the move and like the direction that you took your social and what you are doing now. Yeah. So we were in New York for the first until the end of May. And we were in a teeny tiny little Brooklyn apartment. And it was pretty scary, especially for me.

We talked about this in the previous episode, but I've had like pretty serious agoraphobia in the past. I've had months where I would have panic attacks if I went outside because I thought outside was scary. And I was really, like, freaked out when I was like, well, now outside is scary. So how am I supposed to fit that into my worldview when I'd already recovered from all of that? So it was a really, really hard time. There were sirens all the time. We lived right by a hospital. And so when our lease came up for renewal, our landlord was raising our rent, which felt inappropriate.

And we were just like, I don't know, maybe we should. try making a change. And I think that's a really interesting thing about the past year is that it opened people up to the idea of change in a way they weren't before. I had so many reasons why I couldn't leave New York before COVID happened. I was like, it's better for my job. I worked in the magazine world before I worked in the content creation. I mean, I guess it's a different type of content creation. But magazines are so strongly tied to New York City. And I was just like, if I'm not in New York, will I be able to get work? Will I be able to network? Will I feel kind of ostracized from like the center of all of these things? And I'd made up all these stories for myself.

And Zach, too, his company's based in England. And he was like, will the extra hours ruin my ability to communicate with them or whatever? And then COVID just kind of put us at the end of our rope and we were like, we need a change and we made this big move. And none of these bad things that we'd built up for ourself and our mind happened. And it was a really big lesson for me. me and the idea that like all of these stories you're telling yourself, but why you can't, they're just stories. And the second that you have a reason to move through those stories and to break through them really, you're kind of like, oh, that was like in my head. And that's actually really different than the reality on the ground. So we left intending to move back to California.

It was like a really long distance. We were driving across country with our cat. And we were like taking COVID really, really seriously at that point. We weren't talking to end. And we were. anybody. We weren't, like, stopping anywhere. So we're like, we'll go to Colorado for a month just to kind of, like, be in a little mountain town, not talk to anybody, sort of decompressed from New York life. And we just ended up loving it. We were kind of intending to maybe move back to California at that time, kind of up in the air. But we loved it. We rented an Airbnb for a month. We hiked every day. We just kind of, like, hiked and worked and hiked and worked. And it was so soothing and wonderful and amazing. And that's when I realized that the same thing of, like,

stories of like, oh, you have to live in one place. They weren't true. So we were like, well, let's try this nomad thing. We booked, we picked, like, we went online and we Googled like best mountain towns in America and like then most beautiful desert towns in America for the winter, because I can't do winter proper anymore. I did London and New York, so I feel like I've like earned my stripes and I shouldn't have to be cold ever again. And we just like booked places. So we've been in like Santa Fe, Joshua Tree, Colorado, Monaco. Montana, the Cascade Mountains in Washington, Hood River, Oregon. And when COVID was really bad, we just kind of like really kind of socially isolated in every place and hiked and worked.

But it was just, it's been really cool. And now that things are opening up, we were in Santa Fe and we got to like go to museums and go out to restaurants. And it was a, it was like a fun way to explore things. Because it's like you're there for a month. So you get a little bit more of a vibe of a place, you know. Did you ever get sick of? bit, though. I mean, I feel like I would love it for the first few months and then I would just want to stay in one place. If you could figure out a place that would make me like consistently happy,

then, sure, I'd be down. I think, so I spent a lot of, I spent years traveling when I was younger by myself. So I would, when I graduated from high school, I left for Europe that day and, like, backpacked her in Europe for like eight months. And then I went to South America for a year and a half. And I would just kind of like go to school for a semester and then I would go travel for a semester. And I always feel kind of like most myself when I'm moving, exploring. I also kind of like, do you know the scene in Almost Famous when Penny Lane is like, I'm going to move to Morocco and like get a new identity? And like there's something really appealing to me about the notion that we're different people

in different places. And I like trying on these like different elements of my identity. And I liked it way more as a kid. When I was younger, I was like really a different person in like France versus South America. kind of as I've gotten older, my identity has gotten a lot more grounded, but I still think different places, like bring out a different side of you. But I think if you found me a mountain town that was always sunny and had really good culture and restaurants, but also like really serene,

peaceful nature, I'd probably just live there forever. I feel like I can relate to that because we were talking also before about like my love for New York. Yeah. And I think it's kind of like being in L.A. and being in New York kind of meets the different needs that I have. So it's nice to be able to to go there and get that kind of cortisol and that high energy, like, vibe that we were talking about and then come back here and kind of decompressed from it. And then when I'm ready to go again and go. I also love that LA is like probably the second most cortisol city in the country. And you're like, and this is where I come to decompress from all of that. But I do think it's like I think there's something interesting about humans are so much a product of their environments. And even like our

habits, like if you make your environment set up to push a habit in a positive direction, you're so much more likely to. And we don't like to give you. And we don't like to give credence to that. We like to be like, oh, I'm just as likely to go to a gym that's like 30 minutes from my house as I am to go to the one that's one minute from my house. But you don't. We just don't. It's been studied so many times that we are products of our environments. And I think that thinking of your environment as like, well, if I'm a product of it, what product do I want to be? Like, what do I want to bring out of myself right now? And I think it's interesting. You know, obviously so many people have to live in places for various reasons, jobs, family, whatever.

But if you do have the option, I think, or even the option within a city, like within L.A., different parts bring out such different energies in people, you know? Yeah. I mean, L.A. can be a very stressful place, I think, depending obviously what you do and where you are. But I'm in kind of like the sleepy part of it. Like, you know, like housewives and families. And it's just. But then you can come into all of this, you know? And then like, I think being able to sort of, instead of being like, no, I can regulate. my energy, no matter what, I will be static regardless of my environment, being like, no, it's going to change and morph, and I'm going to lean into that and, like, work with that. I think it's nice. And I got a cowboy hat now, so I'm, like, really mountain ready. And, like, the denim jacket with the stars. It's very, I love it.

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it's a really hard part of this job that I think a lot of content creators are still learning to navigate and I, myself included, and I think it's something that people, myself included, feel bad complaining about because the job is really so wonderful in so many ways. I've wanted to tell stories for living my entire life and the fact that I get to do that is not lost on me. But it's scary to have your livelihood wrapped up in something that you don't control, particularly like algorithmically or like if Instagram falls out of favor and that's where my audience is that's scary and hard. And I think that when people talk about like salaries that influencers make. I also think that it's like professional athletes or, you know, actresses

or stuff like that. Like sometimes it feels like your career is limited in longevity because we don't have an example. What does an influencer look like when they're 60? We literally don't know because social media didn't exist 30 years ago. So I think there's a scarcity mindset that I wish I could get away from, but I have it. And I struggle to deal with it. So I definitely struggle with like, well, if I take a day off or a week off, will the algorithm start to not favor me? And then will I lose everything that I've worked so hard to build? And I don't know. I've literally seen that happen to friends. So it's a scary notion. Yeah, I think that people on the outside see it as this easy job and you make a lot of money and you don't have to do a lot of work. But there is so much insecurity,

I think, around all of that. I had Marianna Hewitt on a few weeks ago and she was talking about how, like, even in our industry, like we have to pay our own health benefits. And when there's time off, people expect you to share more. So if you're going on vacation or if you're having a baby, having a baby, yeah. Having a wedding. Oh my gosh. People like creating content around their weddings, I'm just like, I'm glad I didn't have a following from my wedding. I was going to say the same thing. I had a little bit on Instagram, but like those were the days that I was still putting an emoji over Chuck's face. I'm like not really, I think it was just in the beginning of like Instagram stories. So there wasn't this like need to be the producer of your own reality show every single day.

So I guess I must have gotten what you said a little bit wrong because I was like, wow. No. I thought that you said something about like needing micro breaks and having time. I think, oh, so this is, I was talking about this in therapy. My, I know exactly what we were talking about now. And you're not crazy. So that's, congratulations. I'm like, remember things accurately.

So I think I was saying to my therapist that I didn't feel like I could take larger chunks of I'm off and that I felt like I was slowly losing my mind. And she said that sometimes we put up on a pedestal the idea of like this week long blissful vacation on the beach or whatever. And in fact, that can be more stressful, like trying to attain that. Even like when I worked a full-time editorial job, we would have to prep all of our content for vacation before we went. So like if I had 40 articles go live a week, which I did, which is insane, I'd have to write 80 articles the prior week to be able to go on vacation. And it would make vacation not fun because it was just so, I was so burnt out by the time I got there.

And I think that's a case in a lot of jobs where there's not like, oh, Sally, cover me. I'm going on vacation. It's just like, no, you produce all your work first. And that can make vacation not fun, more stressful, blah, blah, blah. So she was like, take these micro moments in your day. And can you, like, always do a 15-minute walk after dinner? Or can you sit? Sometimes I sit in the middle of the day and I read fiction for like 30 minutes.

And it feels like the most decadent thing in the world because you're just like everybody else's working and I'm reading a fiction book. Like, it just feels so lovely. I have a friend who's sometimes in the middle of, like, she works for a very corporate job. She'll just take a bath in the middle of the day. And I'm just like, and she's like, yeah, like I just block out like a one hour meeting and then I'll just go take a bath in the middle of day. My work still gets done. But it feels like this little moment of pause and something about doing it in these like naughty bits of time. I feel like bosses are going to be listening to me. And they're really, I don't listen to this advice. But I feel like there's so much pressure.

sure on the off hours already, too, to, like, fit in all your self-care. You're relaxing. You're connecting with family. You're connecting with friends. So I do, I think these little micro-moats. I've been trying to do that. I obviously meditate. I know that you're a fan, perhaps more than me. And, like, you're really an evangelist. I'm like trying not to go there in this episode. But I meditate. I try to take these, like, little, I just try to remind myself that just because it's not this larger thing. And I think COVID was honestly good for that because we couldn't do these, like, bigger vacations. although we're all back to like scheduling.

Now the pendulum is swinging the other way. Yeah. I know when you were talking about that, I'm going away in two weeks. Actually, when this airs, I will be gone. And I'm like, I have to get all my podcasts done. All the ad reads, everything done before. And that's an interesting thing about the content creation thing is there is, like, my podcast hasn't had like a break since I started it. Yeah, me neither.

It's just gone on. And I think also because there's so many people who would like jump into the shoes of this job any second, there is this sense of like, well, If I'm not going to do it, then somebody else is more than happy to, you know? Yeah. I'm interested in hearing about, like, how you deal with the other pressures in the job. But just that a lot of people are feeling now anyway, like pressures in terms of beauty standards. And I saw you doing a post that you were afraid to, like, show your stomach on Instagram at one point. And then you did.

And it was, like, kind of this exhilarating thing because you realized, like, not only did nobody really care, like, they were so supportive. So do you still feel pressure? I mean, you're so authentic on Instagram. And like, you're the same person online as you are in person. And that's something that I really like about you. But do you ever feel like you have to have a persona or when you're offline, you still have to, like, show up a certain way in case you, like, see people. I mean, what's your experience with that?

Like, literally perpetually nervous because people tell me, I mean, you probably get this all the time, too, where they'll be like, oh, my God, I saw you here and they'll DM me. And I'm like, I literally just like go through. the laundry list of things I could have been doing in my head. Like, I was like, was my posture bad? Was I picking my nose? Did I fart? Like, was I fighting with Zach?

Probably. Like, it just, I'm, it's, it's nerve-wracking. But I, no, I feel like I'm mostly the same person. With the aesthetic stuff, like, I think it's interesting because I have, social media has been really revolutionary for me and accepting my body. I would say, like, two years ago, I would not have worn a sports broad of the gym. I would not have, I just, like, didn't feel comfortable with my body. I was like, it's fine, but it's not great.

And I don't want to show it off or anything. And I really felt like if it was discovered, because I already had one, maybe both my cookbooks out by then. And I was like, if it's discovered that this is my body, I'll lose all of my legitimacy in the wellness world. And before that, I was the food director in a wellness magazine. And I'm like, people will not listen to my advice if they know that I don't have this, like, what I consider like a wellness influencer body, which isn't a healthy body for me. Like, it's just not. I've tried to have it. I've successfully had it in the past. And it's, I have other negative health effects when I try to have a body that looks like that. And that's fine because different bodies look in different ways. But through social media, through this, like,

I'm going to take the photo and post it. It's, it's been really interesting because it's been, like, facing my fears in that way has made me so much more comfortable with my body in real life. And I post photos online that would have just, like, made me cringe, like a year. And I would have been, like, delete that, like, instantly. And now it's, I almost like faked it till I made it. I was like, I'm going to do this to show other people that it's okay before I thought it was okay. And then, because we give other people permission so much for stuff that we don't give ourselves. We're like, you can be this, but I could never. And then in the process of doing that, I grew to, like, really like my body. I like, I love my body now. And I, it's been a really interesting journey.

So I always tell people now, like, that they should, like, do a little photo shoot. or post those photos that they, you know, that they feel like is less than flattering because the chances are that only you see that. But I think when you broaden aesthetics into a larger thing, I've been talking about this a lot with friends recently, and I'm curious what you think. I think it's really interesting where the line is between like loving yourself and changing yourself, especially these days because you can do so much. Like I think I'm just realizing how, I mean, through your podcast a lot. Like sometimes I listen. to episodes and I'm like, you can do, I listen to the one where you interviewed your plastic

surgeon in Miami, who seems very nice. He seems like a lovely, a lovely gentleman. But I wasn't aware, like the fact that any, like almost anything you don't like about yourself, you can change. And then it's like, well, where's the line between like, I love myself enough to do this for myself versus I will never really love myself if I'm always trying to like run to meet an aesthetic that was probably provided by some sort of like outside media that I haven't even, you know, I don't know where it's from, but I've internalized it because I'm getting that messaging all the time. And I struggle with that myself. Like I feel hotter when my hair is blonde, when my teeth are white. I've been very seriously considering Botox for the first time in my life. And I don't know. I don't know where

the line is, you know? Yeah, I don't really either. I think back to the first time I did anything. I mean, I did a little Botox and filler, like right when I got sober, because I looked in the mirror for the first time, sober. And I was like, holy shit. Just, you know, years of like hard drug use and smoking and treating my body like a dumpster and sun damage. I was like, you know, 28 going on like much older than that. So I did a little bit of that. And that was never even a question of like, can I still love myself? Even if I do this. I just wanted to look how I felt on the inside. You know, I was like, this doesn't match. Like this is, I don't know. It's a. It's a. mismatch. And then I did my nose and that was something that I had wanted to do since I was like 12 and that's probably a whole other issue but I just always didn't like it. And then I was kind of good. And then like you said, a couple years later, I started being like, well, my eyes are really hooded and like this needs a little tweaking. And I would never have noticed that probably until much later were it not for social media because we do internalize these images. I mean, even if I don't follow, you know, I don't follow any accounts that make me feel bad. I stay off my explore page if I can. Usually I can.

But still, I'm seeing pictures of the Kardashians, you know, somewhere. And I'm seeing the billboard of this. And we are getting all of these. Well, and I also think social media is interesting because we've always had normal media. You know, you've always had like Hollywood celebrity. But I think growing up, I was like, well, I'm not going to be Jennifer Aniston. Like, I'm not experiencing. to look like Jennifer Aniston. But social media, it's like a little bit aspirational but still attainable. It's a different level. And so you're like, well, I could look like that.

Whereas there was never an expectation with celebrities, celebrities that you would even be able to come close to attaining that. And I think that's almost, it's like a more dangerous line. Because instead of just being content to look like a normal human living a normal life and like a diverse human too, because I think that that flattening of what beauty looks like is almost one of the scariest parts of it. But I think that social media has gotten rid of that because it's like, well, I could be her. I could be her. I could be her. She's not Jennifer Anniston. She's just like this chick living in Baltimore who looks like this, who feels more like you.

And I think that's some of the best parts of social media. The people that we're putting up on pedestals are more like us. And that's good in a lot of ways. But I think it's also it normalizes those looks and aspiring for those aesthetics. So there was a really interesting article a couple years ago, maybe last year actually, about Instagram face and about how a lot of people are morphing into this one look. And it's definitely like Kardashian driven, I think. That was kind of the, I mean, beauty standards have changed forever. Right.

But they really kind of started this whole, you know, because they all look the same. And then all these women want to look like them. And poor Chloe, who, like, doesn't look the same as them and is, like, tried so hard, too. I know. She, like, breaks my heart. But I also think so this is the other thing I think about Botox and filler and plastic surgery and whatever is, it's like, yes, I think we should be fighting the environment that's producing these beauty standards. But, like, do we need to take that burden on ourselves? You know what I mean?

Like, it's like, I feel like especially as women, life is so hard. And it's, like, sometimes, like, why are we choosing to make it harder? It's a fight that needs to be fought, but do I need to fight it by looking in the mirror every day and hating what I see? You know, I kind of feel like that with climate change sometimes where it's like, yeah, the big corporations and the governments of the world need to make huge changes. But like do I need to be, and I do all this stuff, like before people come at me, you know, like I have my tote and I have my reusable water bottle and stuff. But it's like all of these normal people making their lives a little bit worse at every moment. moment when what really needs to happen is something far greater and far more systemic. And I think that obviously individual people create movements eventually, but I also think that sometimes,

especially women, just like carry the beast of burden when something larger than that should be changing. If that makes sense. Yeah. I mean, I think it should start at the top, not at the people who are dealing with it on a day-to-day basis. Like if Hollywood executives like got together and like, and this is happened in a lot of, you know, TV shows and movies and stuff like that. And they're like, we're going to show different bodies, different faces. And I think that can be more impactful than you sitting there, staring at a wrinkle and saying like, well, I'm not going to get Botox because I don't want to be part of a society that doesn't allow women to age. Right. You know? Yeah. Human sexuality is so important. In fact, it's even a part of wellness, but it's a part that's often overlooked because a lot of

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When I was working with my nutritionist Rob Yang a few years ago, something that he really stressed was the importance of getting electrolytes. And he noted that doing so would help with my bloating and water retention, which is actually kind of counterintuitive, and my recovery from workouts. And he actually had me adding Celtic sea salt to my water, which is easy to do, but not great flavor-wise. And it was not a sustainable thing for me for that reason. But here's the deal. Everyone needs electrolytes, especially those on low-carb diets, anyone who practices intermittent or extended fasting, anybody who is physically active or sweats a lot. So according to the FDA, this is interesting. Over 70% of sodium in the U.S. diet is consumed from packaged and processed

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Again, that is an element sample pack for the cost of shipping, which is $5 for U.S. orders at drinkelement.com slash blonde files. Speaking of the aging thing, we are about the same age. So that was another thing that I wanted to ask you about. And when I did these stories on Instagram this morning asking people how they feel about it, people were like, I'm grateful and I'm also fucking terrified. And I've been having like an existential crisis in the past year, probably also due to like being at home with COVID, like more time to sit and stew on these things. But also living in LA and the beauty standards and just like around 30s, mid 30s, like things start to change. little bit. And it just kind of hit me like a bus last year where I was like, holy shit, like this is actually happening. You kind of live in La La Land in your 20s, or at least I did. Yeah, I did too. And then like you realized that it's such a privilege to age, obviously. But as a woman, like you were saying, it's so hard. And then also being on social media. Which is very much youth driven. Like I'm literally the oldest person with following on TikTok. I feel like.

Well, and like if you look at demographics, like brands, you know, they're like, oh, we want the like 24 to 35. And it's like, well, what happens after 35? Which is interesting because then, those people, the after 35 people have a lot of purchasing power. Yeah, money to spend. And I think it's interesting to think about because we don't have an example for it now, like I was saying, like, maybe there will be 55-year-old influencers, but we just haven't seen it yet because social media hasn't lived long enough for the 35-year-old or the 25-year-old to, like, get an audience and carry it through with them for 30 years. But I think it's really hard. I think, where we live is like a big part of it. And I also think, I don't know, like, it's a reason people always

like cultivate a personality. Like, you shouldn't care about how you look because the personality is like what sticks through time. And I am like, I'm glad I was like, so I was always the person who was attractive enough to hang out with the attractive people, but I was like the funny one in that group. And the older I get, the more I'm like stoked. Like I always kind of resented that. I wanted to be like, all my friends were like tall, beautiful models. And I was just like, I want be the tall beautiful model, but instead I was the one where people were like, oh, like, you're the funny one who hangs out with the tall beautiful models, and I thought it was so annoying. But now I'm kind of like, all right, being the funny one will like last me.

It'll last me a little bit longer. But you're beautiful, too. It's not like you're, but like I'm definitely not a tall, beautiful model. If anything, a pocket size. Models aren't even that tall anymore. Well, what is, I'm curious because Chuck is older. So does he have like words of, he's also a man. And a white man. So like he's got a lot going for him and being allowed to age, which I yell at Zach for literally all the time. I'm just like, oh, look, you have gray hair and now you are more attractive. So cool. But does he have any like – and he's a man who had a lot of his wins later in life, including meeting and marrying you.

Thank you. Yeah. I mean, he's like – he always says, like, looks will fade. And I'm like, no, they won't. Don't say that. But they will. And I do think that's like why – we need to just, like, move past this pudding looks on a pedestal.

It's just such a, I understand why we do it. But it is like, it's same with Instagram. It's insane to me when people follow people who do literally nothing but just, like, post pretty pictures of themselves. And I'm like, what value are you getting from this? Like, especially when they're like 21 and then they're like, I want to be like this person. I'm like, well, you don't know anything about how they're living their life. Girl, like, you don't take wisdom from a 21 year old.

And I say that as somebody who was 21 once and gave really terrible wisdom. though I thought I was very wise. Like when I was in my early 20s, I date these like 35-year-olds and I'd be like, oh, it's because like I'm so mature. And I was like, no, no. That was not great all around retrospectively. But I do think that like we need to, as a society, just stop putting looks up on a pedestal because it doesn't, it doesn't make you a good dinner conversationalist. It doesn't make you more fun. It doesn't make your life better. That's something else I've realized. It's like these people who are lauded for their looks, their life isn't better for it usually. Like, unless they're actively making a little bit of money of it, that would make it a little bit better.

But even then, it just comes wrought with insecurity. You're just waiting for the day that nobody likes you for your looks anymore. So why? Like, what's the good part, you know? Like, what's the good part? Genuinely. Like, what's, why are we all trying to be beautiful? What does being beautiful get us?

Especially, like, you found a partner, so you've, like, fulfilled that biological urge. So for what reason? To have some chick you pass in the street? like, damn, she pretty. That's a very good question. And I'm sure everybody listening to this is like, whoa. But yeah, Chuck is a really good person to have around when it comes to this because he has the experience, you know, he's like his life started getting better in like his 50s. I love that. I love stories of people who I like found success later in life. Yeah. And he's like, this is the best I've ever felt. And so to have somebody saying that, it's very encouraging. It's like, okay, like,

Life is not over at 35, actually. But he is like a white man and, you know, successful and all of that. So he does have certain privileges. But I do think it's like so interesting that like if you could name what made you like excited to hang out with any single person ever, it would not be that they were hot. Never. And we, but we still just want to be hot. Yeah. And it's like we should really be sitting around like being like, let me come up with some great conversation starters or like let me get really good at asking people about their their feelings.

or like, let me come up with some good jokes to be funny because those are the things we like in people, but we don't sit around doing that literally at all. We present our hot self and then we, like, are boring at coffee, you know. I think it's just like that little ego boost or like that boost of something, like the validation that you get from other people for a second. But we get validation for the other, like sometimes I wonder if we, we are dismissing all the other validation we're getting. We're dismissing the friends that are saying like, you're such a good listener or you're so kind or you bring out a part of. of me that I've never had brought out before or like my husband gives me all sorts of compliments

and the ones that I like are like him saying that I'm hot. And like, why is that? Because I want to be all the other things too. And to be frank, if I was just hot, like he would not be with me, you know? Like, he is with me because I'm so good in bed. No, but for all sorts of reasons that have very little to do with my appearance. So why is that the one that sticks, you know? Yeah, I don't know. I don't have an answer to that. And yeah, Chuck has said the same thing. He's like, being attractive, that doesn't sustain past like a few weeks, you know, like you have to be an interesting person. And also being attractive, even for those first few weeks, it's not objective. It's subjective. Right. Like, we find the people that we, like,

when I met Zach, I was like, he is the hottest person alive. I want to jump his bones. And all my friends were like, yeah, he's like, cute. And I'm like, no, no, you don't understand. He's like so hot, you know? And it's, so it's like everybody will have somebody that they think is banging. And that's what I hate about the flattening is honestly, probably we have people pretending they find people attractive when they're actually going like away from what their aesthetic or their attractiveness would be because we would be all over the place. And instead we're flattening it in terms of what we're attracted to. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just like, whoa. I've never thought about it that way before though. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Also, men like hate to, at the final point, you have to hide when you get, like, aesthetic changes from men. They, like, are like, what are you doing? So even, like, I just don't tell them anymore. And Zach was like, why would you do that? Like, does it have, is it for skin cancer purposes or is it just for beauty?

And I'm like, I know. I just, I'll tell Chuck if I'm going to get, like, Botox or something like that yesterday. He said, where are you going? And I was like, I'm going to get a neck procedure. And that's, like, the other nice thing about him. He goes, your neck. Are you kidding me? Like your baby.

What is wrong with your neck? I remember you said when somebody like asked you, I don't know if it's on Instagram or your podcast, like, does check pay for stuff? And you were like, no, because this way I don't have to sell them about it. If I pay for it, then I don't, I don't share. I mean, nothing like trust and honesty. It's a foundation. Sometimes trust is the freedom to have space from each other.

Yeah, that's true. I mean, yeah, I'm trying to think like what he actually doesn't know. There's only one procedure that he doesn't know about, but he might listen to this and no. So it's not really a hiding. It's just like now I know that if I tell him, he's just going to worry that I'm not going to look like myself and he's going to worry. That's like number one. Because your partner falls in love with you.

Like that's who they fall in love with. And that's what he always says. He's like, I fell in love with your face. Why would you like, why, you know? And you're like, because he fell in love with my face when it was 29, you broke. I mean, at the end of the day, he's like, it's your body. Do what you want. Yeah.

But, yeah. So another thing that I really wanted to talk to you about because I think you're one of the only digital people, creators, content creators that really is vocal about this is the question over whether or not you want to have kids. So somebody asked me recently in a Q&A that I was doing, like if people ask me all the time. And I said, well, in my personal life, no, nobody ever asks me. But you people, strangers on the internet. What is daily? It's so, and I also think it's so interesting how like the cachet of having children. And like, I literally know people who went from 60,000 TikTok followers to, like, 300,000 with a, with a pregnancy announcement. Like, and TikTok is also really young.

So it's like, is it just a bunch of 19-year-olds who want to watch us get knocked up? Like, what is going on there? I genuinely don't, don't understand the public interest in other people's wombs. I mean, I've heard, I don't know people specifically, but I've heard that there are influencers who, like, purposely get pregnant because the money. I've heard that too. I actually know specific. How you do? The money is really good because it opens you up to a new category of, like, baby products, stuff like that.

But also, like, your audience genuine. Like, it's one of the only careers I can think of for women where you actually get more successful for having a kid. Which I also think is weird because it's not like everybody wants to consume baby content. So I don't know. Yeah, I get asked like probably 10 times a day lightly. I would say, like, is a conservative estimate. which is interesting. And I haven't decided. You haven't decided to, right? I was a firm no. And I still am a no, but I'm also considering freezing my eggs only because, I mean, I've had a lot of,

a lot of OBGYNs and women that I know who are like, I was a firm no at your age too. And then at 40, it was all I wanted and I didn't have the option anymore for whatever reason. So part of me feels like since I can financially, why not give yourself the option? I hear it's a little bit of a rough. Yeah, I have a few friends who have just done on. And one of my friends was like, no, but he told me. I have one friend that did it and she was like, it was a breeze. And then I have another friend going through it who is having a little bit of a harder time.

So I think it depends. I had an IUD for five days recently, and that was like the worst fucking experience in my life. So I'm like, how can I handle those hormones? Wait, what happened? I had polyps in my uterus, and my OBGYN was like, I'm going to just put an IUD in while you're under. It's great. That actually sounds really nice because getting an IUD inserted is the most horrifically, like, painful thing I have ever experienced today in my life. I can not imagine.

And she kind of just sold it as like, all my patients love it. It'll make your periods lighter. It'll help because I have really. irregular periods and I have PCOS and I have like pretty much every reproductive thing that you could think of and horrendous periods. So like when I do get it, I'm like on the bathroom floor vomiting crazy beforehand, excruciating cramps, all of that. So I was like sold. And I didn't really take into consideration that any time that I've ever tried being on hormonal birth control before then, I go into like psychosis. Like I get legit crazy. And even,

though there wasn't a whole lot. Were you like the Morena type? It was in the marina family. So it was less hormones than that. And it's delivered locally to the uterus. So she was like, it won't really get in your bloodstream. But a couple days later, I was traveling. So I got it done on Thursday.

Went to Florida on Sunday. And Sunday night, I started feeling like really weird. And Monday morning, Tuesday, I won't go into all the details. But, I mean, I was like panicked to the point where I couldn't even talk, could barely even breathe. Oh, my God. And were you immediately like the connection, were you like, this is my IUD? Or were you like, what is happening to my body?

I'm going to die. So the first day I was like, maybe I'm just jet lagged because I felt, I just felt so weird. I can't really describe it. And then when the peripheral vision started getting like magnified, I was like, hmm, this is weird. I felt like I was in fight or flight. And I told my other OBGYN about that. And she said, well, progestin, whatever the synthetic progesterone is in that, some women, it can activate your amygdala.

So you go into fight or flight. And so when you're thinking you're getting chased by a bear and you're going to die, like your peripheral vision is like, literally what happens when you're having a long-term panic attack. It was like a four-day panic attack. And finally I went to New York and I was like, take this thing out of me. Oh my God. And did it immediately like subside? No.

So then the bleeding started. This is like way TMI. Sorry, Brian. Nothing like a male podcast. And it took like maybe. two weeks, like a week and a half, two weeks to fully come back to normal. I feel like that's, I've heard a lot of sort of IUD horror stories, and I haven't heard that. And it's definitely something that should be talked about if there's literally like

this hormone causes this because obviously I had a marina for seven years. It was a fine experience. My sex drive went away completely. But other than that, it was fine. Great. Other than that, it was great. But like a lot of women have completely fine experiences. But if somebody out there is having your experience but doesn't know that that's why and they're just dealing with that. That's like horrifying to think about. Yeah, I made it a point not to read anything online about it beforehand because I didn't want to get that into my head because sometimes you read like causes like anxiety and insomnia and then you're like, wait a second, I'm not sleeping. And that's why I think having doctors you trust is so important because then you can kind of skirt

just reading reviews. Yeah. And when I talked to my doctor, she was like, this has never happened to any of my patients. And I started to feel like maybe I was a little bit crazy. And then I started looking it up. And there were a bunch of people in forums that had the same thing. And then my OBG-O-N in New York said some women are just hypersensitive to lovigestrin. I don't know. Wait, do you know how this is like getting in the weeds a little bit?

But like, do you know how that would interact with egg freezing? I don't know. Actually, yeah, she said that I could still freeze my eggs with them. So I don't know how I got off on that. But we were talking about, oh, yeah, I said, I don't think I can handle the hormones that they give you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So what are you thinking about that? About having kids and freezing.

I don't want to freeze my eggs. I don't know why. I have, like, a very strong sense that I don't want to freeze my eggs. And I don't know where that comes from. Although, I don't think, like, I don't think there's anything wrong with it. If I was going to do it, I would do natural egg retrieval, which I don't know if you've heard about that. But, like, there's ones where they, we talked about it on Ask the Doctor, hormone edition, I think, with Aviva. And she said that you can do where you like hyperstimulate your ovaries and produce like a bunch more eggs.

But you can also just kind of retrieve the eggs that are there. And it's more gentle on your body hormonally. So if I was going to do it, I would do that. But having kids, I don't know. So I did these like pros and cons of having kids episode. And I like opened up to my audience to kind of anonymously say what their thoughts were on having kids. And it's so interesting when you make it anonymous because immediately a few of my friends who had kids were like, nobody's going to say anything negative. Like, nobody's going to say they regret it having kids.

And I'm like, well, the 500 emails in my inbox, like, tell me otherwise. You know what I mean? It's interesting when you give women and men a safe space or forum to really honestly talk about that. How many people are like, I love my kid so much. And what I'm saying doesn't take away from that in any way, shape, or form. But I don't like my life since I had this kid or I don't like my relationship with my partner anymore. And it's really scary. And I think some of it is resource-based, if I'm going to be completely honest, like in general,

I would say the couples who had more resources, whether it was just straight financial resources or it was resources in terms of family living really close that was interested in helping out just like a community because we were meant to raise children and tribes. And we've completely eliminated that from our lives, which has made mostly women's lives incredibly more difficult. I think resources made a huge difference. But it was still just, I don't know, it's scary. It's scary to think that your life could be really, really, really good.

And then you could add in this element that would make everything worse. But maybe one thing, like, I love this kid, but also my relationship with my partner is worse. And my finances are tighter. And I don't feel like my own identity anymore. But also, I'm really scared to miss out on, like, a type of love. I feel like we're on this planet to experience as much of life as possible. And I live every other part of my life in that way. like just truly trying to, I've like, FOMO for like life.

Or I'm just like, guys, have you thought about the fact that we're going to die someday? Like, we really got to get stuff in. And it really scares me to just miss out on a whole type of love. So I'm deeply undecided. I'm also deeply comforted by the fact that I think fertility struggles are incredibly real. And I see and hear, you know, every woman who's dealing with stuff like that. but I also think that so many women have babies at 38, 39, 40, early 40s. The reason, though, that it's not talked about that much is often they're like your fourth baby.

Like, if you think about anybody who's had like four or five or six babies, usually the later ones, you're getting up there in age, but people almost don't think about as much because they've had so many already. So I could see doing like one at like 39 and being happy, but I could also really see not. And I don't think there's, I think it's cool that we live in a society where it's like a choice. And there's so many ways to live a really happy and fulfilling life. I don't know. I think it's interesting that some people don't see it as a choice almost. Like, I don't know, when I've talked about not wanting them, people try to convince me like, it's like I can't make my own choice.

Yeah. Like there, I think it's because people. people in all facets of life, but especially with decisions you cannot go back on, really want to have their own choices validated, you know? So it's like if you're saying you don't want kids, what does that say about me for having my kids? What does that say about the life I've chosen for myself? And I think we do that in pretty much every facet of our lives. Like, what does it say about me if you've chosen to, I remember when all my friends would like leave New York and I'd be like, well, I'm staying in New York. So like, what does that mean?

But everything else you can change. And having kids, you can. And it feels so, so permanent, which is why I think it is such a big decision. But I think because it feels permanent and because it's really, really hard, people want that choice validated as much as possible. And so I think I try to have grace for the people coming at me online about it as much as possible because I do think that it's so much more about them wanting to feel good about their lives, which is honestly a lot of our job, right?

Like I feel like being in the space of being an influencer and creating content and kind living your life in this way is is giving people the information and the emotional space to feel more informed to make the better life choices, but then to feel really good about the choices that they're making to be like, I'm not alone in these choices. I'm not alone in these feelings. And so I can see how having kids like fits in with that. Yeah, I mean, I kind of feel like for me, at least, I'm just in this phase right now where I want to pick up and go. Like, I love the independence that I have right now. Yeah.

And that's also why I'm scared that I'll change my mind because I feel like I'm kind of living out my 20s and my 30s because my 20s I was like in a blackout the whole time. Hot mess. And so I'm like, well, I hope that, you know, I don't wake up in my 40s and suddenly want what I would normally want then. So that's the only thing that makes me question a little bit. There's also like a lot of avenues to that too. You know, there's adoption and there's dogs. Dogs. I mean, I love my cat.

like a really gross amount. I do too. I'm like, and I always say to Chuck, all the oxytocin here that would be like going to a baby is going to my dog. Right. And I don't know. Like I do think it's, there's, there's all sorts of ways to live a really wonderful and satisfying life.

And I think that at any point we can make our life really wonderful and satisfying. I don't think there's a wrong answer. And that's almost like what's hard about it, you know? Well, that's a really good note to end on. So tell everybody where they can find you and about your podcast and all of that. Yeah. So I am Liz Moody on Instagram, Liz Moody on TikTok, Liz Moody online. Like Liz Moody.com.

You can go to Liz Moody.com and get a free green smoothie guide. We didn't talk about healthy eating like at all, which I like. But healthy eating is actually my sourdough bread and pasture is butter. So you can go to Liz Moody.com and get a free green smoothie guide. And then I also have a podcast called Healthier Together. And I interviewed Ariel on it. And it's a great episode. It really is like a TV.

I don't know why that hasn't happened yet. I don't know. You think Chuck would like make it happen. You would think he would like hear that story. I'll write it for you. But it's we and then she, it was a really fun. So everybody should go listen to that. And we also talk about wellness.

And I have asked the doctor episodes where I dive into hormones and gut health and anxiety and stuff like that. So you really are. such a storyteller, even with, like, nonfiction, like, when you bring people on your podcast and you just put it together in such a digestible way. Thank you. I work really hard at it. I also did work as a journalist for, like, a decade, which I always, like, I don't want to be like, I worked as a journalist for a decade, so I know how to do this. But I'm also like, I really have been interviewing people for pretty much my entire professional life. And I love it. It's my favorite thing. I do it at bars. I do it in Ubers. And sometimes I record it.

Well, thank you so much. Thank you for having me. This is so fun. I hope you enjoyed that episode. If you liked it, and if you like the show in general, please take a second to rate, review, and subscribe. It goes a long way, and it's actually the best way to support the show. Also, if you want to see more about each episode, you can head over to The Blonde Files podcast on Instagram. I'm always posting about each episode there or over on my personal page at Ariel Lori.