Well with Arielle Lorre - 141: How to Build a Successful Brand from Scratch with Annie Lawless

Episode Date: November 24, 2021

In this episode I am talking to Annie Lawless, founder and CEO of Lawless which is a clean, non toxic beauty brand. She is also a content creator and co-founded the cold pressed juice brand, Suja, of which she sold her stake to Coca Cola in 2015 in a massive deal. We discuss how she became interested in wellness and how that organically led her to start a pressed juice company; lessons she learned along the way from concept to execution, major growth and eventually the sale of that company; how she started a beauty brand from scratch; tips for anyone who wants to start a business; how she focuses on her own wellness while being a busy entrepreneur and mom, and so much more.   www.Helloned.com/Blonde for 15% off plus a free De-Stress Blend sample on all orders over $40. www.Sakara.com/BLONDEFILES for 20% off your first order. www.Keanhealth.com with code blonde for 20% off your order. www.Curology.com/BLONDE for a free 30-day trial, you just pay $5 for shipping and handling   Produced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a dear media production. Hey, welcome to the Blond Files podcast. I'm your host, Ariel Lori, and I'm here to talk all things wellness. From how to achieve optimal health and well-being to the best beauty tips and everything in between, no topic is off limits. I know there is so much information out there, so I'm here to help you navigate it all and live your best life. Thanks for listening.

Let's get into it. Hi, everybody. Welcome to the show. Today, I have such a good episode for you. I am talking to Annie Lawless. Annie is the founder and CEO of Lawless, which is a clean, non-toxic beauty brand. And she is also a content creator and co-founded the cold pressed juice brand, Suja, which I'm sure most of you are familiar with. And she actually sold her steak to Coca-Cola in 2015 and a massive deal that we get way into in this episode. And we discuss her interest in wellness. how she used that to organically lead her to starting this pressed juice company and the lessons that she learned along the way from concept to execution and all of the major growth and eventually the sale of that company. And then we talk about how she pivoted and started a beauty brand from scratch. And she has such good tips for anybody who wants to start a business or is just really

interested in this stuff. And she also talks about how she focuses on her own wellness. while being a busy entrepreneur and mom. And we just had such a good conversation. She's so fun to talk to and super smart. So I think you guys will love this episode. So enjoy Annie Lawless. Okay, welcome, Annie. So excited to talk to you.

Thank you so much for having me. Likewise. Of course. So I want to get into all the topics today. But to start, why don't you just tell everybody a little bit about yourself and a little bit about your back. background and how you got into wellness? Yeah. So my background and wellness really started as a kid. I had terrible eczema all over my body, my face, my, my arms, my hands, my legs. And I didn't know what

was causing it, but it was really chronic. And around adolescence, I was about 12 years old, I went to a new pediatrician and they decided to do an autoimmune panel because eczema's autoimmune and it seemed to be really chronic for my age. A lot of babies and kids that have eczema grow out of it and mine continued to get worse. And so that was when they'd let me know that I had celiac. And I had never heard that word. I didn't know what gluten was. I grew up like every normal kid eating pizza, pasta, chicken fingers, you know, the standard American diet. And so that really sparked my fascination in health and wellness because when I cut gluten out, just based on a simple doctor approved food list, within two weeks, my eczema went away. And

And as a kid that never learned anything about nutrition and had no idea that diet was even relevant in health or in life, to see my eczema go away just from that simple thing after years of using steroid creams and being so itchy, I was bleeding. It was just this huge light, bold moment that what I'm putting in my body does affect how I look and feel. And so that was really the beginning of my fascination. I read every nutrition book I could get my hands on, got obsessed with juice. And so that kind of spurred all the things that I ended up doing in the future, which was my previous

company, which was an organic cold press juice company, and now my clean makeup brand Lawless. Yeah, so I definitely want to get into the whole experience with Suja if you're open to talking about it. I know that you've since left then, but I think it is such an interesting part of your story and just really inspiring for a lot of people. But I'm curious, like, after you were diagnosed with celiac, was it like a line in the stand where all of a sudden you were like fully health focused and into wellness or was it kind of a gradual thing where you started learning more and incorporating different lifestyle things into your life? It was definitely more gradual and it was like really putting the pieces together as I went and I just

kept feeling better and better and I would do more and more. So like the first step was I just cut out all of these foods that I got on a list that had a gluten and I started eating a lot more rice. potatoes, stopped eating cereal, you know, basic things I was eating as a kid. And my eczema started clearing up. And by literally two weeks, it was completely gone. And as somebody that had never seen my skin without eczema, since I could remember, it was just shocking to me. And so that started buying cookbooks and started learning about nutrition and then trying to find cookbooks that had recipes for people like me that were gluten-free. And then that led to reading more about nutrition. And then, you know, I started getting really into juicing when I read

that that can be really beneficial for your digestion if you're someone that has celiac because you may have damaged your microvilli and your intestine eating gluten all these years. And juice is such an easily digestible way to access all of the nutrients in organic produce. And so it was just sort of a learning where I was just gathering information and incorporating more and more and more. And then it was really in college when, you know, I had access to the internet. I think I had like, AOL dial up when I first found out I had celiac. So information just wasn't easy to get the way that it is now. And so in college is when I got really obsessed with juicing. And I started reading books by Dr. Norman Walker, who created the world's first cold press and all these studies showing the

correlation and benefits with people with autoimmune disorders and celiac on gut health by juicing. And so it definitely was a build over many years of just figuring out what worked for me, what felt good, what didn't seem to help that much, what seemed to help a lot, and kind of creating my own little wellness routine. I think that's so important for people to heal because I think we want to get the answer right away and to feel better right away. And oftentimes you do have to try a lot of different things and see what works for you. And people always ask me, like, how do I pick and choose when I have so many different people on my podcast and so many experts and stuff? Like, how do I decide what I'm going to use in my own life? And it's really like

trial and error. And you really just have to try so many different things until, because we're all individual, right? Yeah. And I think that's what gets sticky when you follow experts on Instagram or you see, read a book by somebody and a lot of the points resonate with you. There's no one person out there that every single thing that they say or every single thing that they recommend is going to work for you. you can love a certain doctor that you read his book and he has his diet protocol or all these things that he says to incorporate, whether it's supplements or, you know, wellness routines. But ultimately, at least in my experience, I've learned that it's really like a quilt. And I just have to pick the little pieces that work on my quilt. Like it's a patchwork. And I pull from things that seem to

really resonate with me. I really try not to label myself like whenever people say, I, I, I, I, I eat a lot of plants, but I'm not vegan. I'm not vegetarian. I'm not like if I want a piece of fish, if I want eggs, I just don't like putting myself in these boxes because I think that wellness is not like a box that you tick. And I solved it. Just because something worked for you for a month, you know, maybe next month you may need to incorporate something else or you may need to switch this up or stop taking this. And so I think you have to remember your body's a living thing that's going to have different needs at different stages. And it is sort of like a lifelong thing that you need to tune into to constantly be checking in with where you are and what you need at that specific time.

I love that because I feel like that kind of takes the pressure off to like find the answer and do everything and be very regimented. Like even with my own health issues that I was telling you about before, like I had to change all the tools in my toolbox. I was like, wait, nothing that I've been doing is working anymore. And so I've had to pivot. But yeah, I feel like having that flexibility makes it. It's like that really cheesy line. Like it's a marathon, not a sprint. Yeah.

But that's what comes to mind. Like it is a lifelong thing. It is. And when you think back, I always think about like the paleo diet, for example. And it's like eat how your ancestors ate. And ultimately then the paleo diet makes no sense because there was no one way that they ate. There was so many different factors in the life of people back then.

and where they were, what they had access to. You know, all of the things that we have access to today make it so easy to think that you can get on this wellness routine. We've got supplements at our fingertips. We have meal delivery services. We have whole foods. So you can do the same things over and over. But the way that our ancestors lived and the way that humans are designed

is out to be flexible because the world and our needs and our lifestyles are always changing and our bodies and our health. And, you know, I had a baby and like what I was eating when I was pregnant was so different than what I wanted to eat before. And then what I wanted to eat after when I was breastfeeding, what I want to eat now. And what makes me feel best and what energizes me, what makes me feel sluggish. And so I think it's just, it's so liberating when you just open yourself up to listening to your body and not putting labels or letting diet culture or wellness culture dictate the way that you try to live. And then it feels very forced. I know that I don't have to tell you guys how important gut health is.

If you have been listening to this podcast for any amount of time, you've probably heard so many experts come on and talk about how our gut health influences all of the other systems in our bodies. And our gut microbiome is an ecosystem of good and bad bacteria living in our bellies. And not only does it influence our digestive system, it also impacts our physical and emotional well-being. And you guys, if you know my story, know that I have had different periods of having gut issues and other physical issues. And whenever we tested, we found different pathogens. And when I treated the gut, everything else got better. So I want to tell you about an amazing new brand that just launched. It's called Keen Health. And although they are a new brand, their parent company has over 17 years of experience in the healthcare industry. So the Keene Health Gut Plus test is the perfect

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pretty extra glowy lately, and it's because I am back on my Tretanoan game. Now that the weather is a little bit colder, I'm not in the sun as much. I don't worry so much about using Tretanoan and having sun exposure. So I am back on my Curology game. And listen, I know the struggle of trying to find skincare products that actually work. I have tried it all, which is why I love curology, whether you're dealing with acne, hyperpigmentation, texture issues, fine lines or wrinkles, dryness, redness, oiliness, you name it. Cureology will customize a prescription formula with three active ingredients to target your specific skincare needs. The whole process could not be easier. You just go to Cureology's website and

answer some questions about your skin, upload a few selfies, and then Cureology matches you with a licensed dermatology provider who gets to know your skin and makes recommendations for you. The whole thing took me like 15 minutes and I have a custom process. product with tretanone, niacinamide, and azaleic acid. So tretenoan is one of the most effective ingredients at targeting fine lines. I think any, if not all, people in dermatology or aesthetics would tell you that this is a must-use ingredient. And then niacinamide is an antioxidant that reduces wrinkles. It brightens the skin and helps with elasticity and azaleic acid improves texture and lightens dark spots. So I do have to say that I have tried other brands.

of Tretanoin and my skin could not get used to them. It could not adjust. And usually with this kind of ingredient, there is a little bit of an adjustment period. So even though I have a little bit of initial dryness, it's not like the crazy irritation that I get with other brands. And it's so totally worth it. It's like unlike anything else for your skin. So I also love their simple cleanser, especially in the morning when I want to clean my face, but not dry it out with harsh ingredients. So you can try Curology and get started with a free 30-day trial at Curology.com slash blonde. All you have to do is pay $5 for shipping and handling. That's C-U-R-O-L-O-G-Y.com slash B-L-O-N-D-E. And you can start your free 30-day trial. You can also cancel any time.

A prescription is subject to consultation. I'm Kat Sadler and it sure is a beautiful day. After such a bleak year, it's time for some joy, and I cannot wait for you to hear my fresh and fun new show. I crack open about mom life, relationships, wellness, and beauty, all the things. Plus, I have provocative conversations with some of the most fascinating and famous spaces in pop culture. I'm here to lift you up and make you think. Check out, it sure is a beautiful day with me and you every Tuesday. What are some ways that you kind of tune in to to your own body to have that like intuition of what you need at any given time. Well, it's funny right now what's most relevant to me is less like physical and more mental

and emotional, but I feel like it's correlated with my physical is I've been feeling like fatigued and realizing a big part of that is not really anything I'm eating or doing or how I'm resting. It's like that I'm saying yes to too many things. And I think that really can infiltrate your physical being. And for me, when I'm overexerted, because I am a yes person and I'm constantly busy and I love being busy, but it's almost to my own detriment at times. And then it really does start to affect my health and ways like I feel so tired. I can't like get my workouts in. I feel kind of like negative and down because I'm like so busy. I can't stop to think and spend time meditating and resting and recharging. And so like that's one thing now is like checking in with how I'm spending my time. Do I want to do this? No. If I don't want to do it. I don't have to do anything. I can say no. I can reschedule it. I can cancel it. And so I think like that's one of the ways I constantly check in is like, am I spending my time in ways that make me feel good? Because that's going to affect every single other aspect of my life. And then I think

health-wise, like recently, for example, I hadn't been eating fish because I had high mercury. And I found it I was pregnant. So I decided now to eat fish my entire pregnancy. And recently I started feeling like I was really craving fish. And then I started thinking about have I checked my vitamin D levels. Maybe I'm really need vitamin D. And maybe I'm not getting enough vitamin A. Maybe I'm not getting enough omega-3. So I just started eating fish. And I do feel like that's helping. So little ways like that, I experiment. If I'm feeling something, I figure out what it is that I'm missing, where I could be getting that. And then I try that thing. I can relate to you so much on everything, but especially what you were just saying about saying yes. I just did an episode this

morning with my producer where we were talking about like health goals and professional and personal goals in the next year. And I said the same thing. I was like, I am so run down and exhausted, mentally, emotionally, everything from saying yes to everything this year. And I, again, like I've been having these health issues and I'm working with an herbalist. And she was like, here are the tinctures, here's the this and then that. And then she goes, but I think what's going to be the most important for you in all of this is to pretend that you're one of these brands that you're working with. Or pretend like your health is a project that you have to work on and give yourself that amount of time and energy and attention.

And she's like, because I can give you all the tinctures and the supplements and the this and that and whatever. But if you are like running yourself into the ground like this, none of it is going to matter. It's so true. And I think I've recently had my own health issues and I've had to take a major time out. And I feel like when you start to feel that and your health starts to be in jeopardy, nothing else matters. Like for me, it's been like code red. This is my number one project right now. I don't give a shit about all these 50 other things. Like I just want to get better. I need to focus on myself. I need to get sleep. I need to focus on my stress levels. I need to like get inflammation down. I need to do everything I can to make sure that I'm feeling.

feeling good. And I will say I used to be way more of a masochist, I guess, before having a baby. And I would just kill myself before saying no to something. I will get the job done. I will be there. I will do it. And now that I have my child, I care way more about my health and well-being because I'm her mom. So I care what happens to her and making sure that she has a mom that is happy, healthy, energized to take care of her, present to be there with her. I want to give her that. And so for me, prioritizing my health has been a really interesting thing because it's become something outside of me now that I care about it more. And I wonder why I didn't care the way I did when I had just me, myself and I to worry about because it is almost like I didn't care about myself the way that I care

about myself for her. And that's been a really awesome lesson to learn is that without my health, I have nothing. And if not for her, I need to do this for me and make sure that I'm always feeling great, feeling positive, feeling rested, feeling energized. And that does mean saying no. And at the end of the day, you can do a million things. And I think as, you know, entrepreneurial women, we want to say yes to it all. But it's really the things that you're passionate about that are going to move the needles. So just saying yes to everything for the sake of saying yes doesn't necessarily mean it's going to benefit you. Right. Yeah, no, totally. I mean, I have been so busy doing work for other people, which I did say yes to, that I have not had time to do any of the stuff that I'm passionate about,

to share any of the stuff that I'm passionate about sharing, you know, to recipe develop and do the things that I love to do and share because of saying yes to everything. So what I get from that is that I need to have a baby. So then I have that perspective. It's fun. Noted. Okay, so I want to go back to Suga. So you kind of transformed your lifestyle and your approach to wellness.

So how did Suga come about? So Sujo was just a passion project hobby that turned into a huge business. And I think that's how it's so funny whenever I am like asked for business advice or to speak on a panel about business. It's like I'm not really a business person. It might seem like that. But I really, both of my businesses have come from true passions of mine and kind of a selfish need for products that I couldn't find for my own self. So I started juicing obviously as a result of all of my health. issues and my celiac and getting really, really, you know, deeply fascinated by nutrition. And I read a lot of books by Dr. Norman Walker who created the world's first cold press. So I decided to get this press called the Norwalk for Norman Walker. And I just got obsessed with cold pressing. And so when I moved to San Diego, I went to undergrad in Arizona. I went to ASU and got my bachelor's in philosophy. And then I decided to go to law school. So I moved to San Diego. And as a way to meet people and just, kind of integrate myself into this new city.

I started taking yoga at this studio and then I started teaching there and working there. And I would always bring a green juice to the studio that I would make on my Norwalk Cold Press. And one day this guy like stated up on a skateboard to take class and he had a green juice. And he was like, where did you get that? And I was like, oh, I make it on my Norwalk press.

It's a cold press. And he's like, me too. I have a Norwalk press. So we struck up conversation and decided to start doing a home delivery service because so many people at the yoga studio were asking where we got the juice, how we made it. And at the time, San Diego is not like L.A. or New York where there was like Liquiteria and Organic Avenue and press. There was like jamba juice. There just wasn't cold press juice places. So we would get text messages every Sunday from our customers. Most of them that

we met through the yoga studio that we just became friends with. And I taught there. And we just had this little community. And just by word of mouth, we grew this little local home delivery service where they would text us what they wanted. We would let them know what organic produce was available that week, what we were offering. They would test us what they wanted. And then we would deliver it. We would make it and deliver it. And so that was really the beginning. And it just became this little kind of cult following local business. And then as it grew and grew, a couple of guys approached us whose wives were buying the juice. They were really interested in it. They thought that we could do something bigger with it. And I think at the time, we were all thinking more of just

like a national home delivery service or just expanding California. We weren't thinking like retail yet. And so they invested. We got a little space. We got commercial cold presses and started doing it on a little bit bigger scale. And then Whole Foods approached us. And I'm sure you've seen in store, they have that little local signed by certain products with how many miles away it was made and pictures of the people that make it. And so they were kind of starting that initiative. And they had heard about us just sort of like as this little local cold brand. And so we met with them and that was really the game changer because they obviously have the ability to build business and really get exposure that you can't get locally. And so at the time, we were a cold pressed business. So we had a three-day shelf

life. So we found this technology called HPP, which is high pressure processing because Whole Foods required a 30-day shelf life. The same way they won't sell raw and pasteurized milk. They won't sell raw not pasteurized juice unless it comes from their juice bar, fresh on-site made there. So we found this technology that we could apply where bottles go into an ice bath. So it all stays raw under 40 degrees. And the ice bath gets pressurized and that kills any pathogens and extends the shelf life. And so that was how we were able to launch. And we initially launched in the Southern Pacific region.

And then within six months, they plused us out nationally in all doors. And that was really the beginning of the suja that you know and see today. as like a, you know, major national well-known brand. How long did it take to go from when you guys started doing it just the two of you or however many people there were when you guys just started to being in Whole Foods? That took about two years. It took about two years. And then even after we launched in Whole Foods,

we were still a really small operation that had a lot to learn. So, you know, it took us another year of being in Whole Foods to really, like, legitimize the operation. We ended up buying. So this high pressure chambers, we used to have to drive them to a tolling center that had one. There was only seven in the country at this time near like multi-million dollar machines. So I mean, we eventually ended up buying our own HPP machines and, you know, making so many efficiencies in the business.

But it took some time. It wasn't like when we launched in Whole Foods. We were, you know, operating on full steam. We had a lot to learn. But it was really the game change of the business because after Whole Foods and we kind of learned that business, then came. Costco and Target. And then obviously we eventually sold half the business and a 30% stake to Coca-Cola. So it takes time. And we started the business in 2011 and we sold in 2015. So it didn't happen

overnight. But it happened relatively. That's still really fast for years. Really fast. What are some of the biggest mistakes that you think you made that you then learned from? The biggest mistake is, I mean, it's so funny we're talking about mistakes because when you're out of it, like, I am now and I'm not like in it. I mean, you think at the time those mistakes feel very vital and dooming. And then years later, you see why everything happened and you learned a lot from them and they weren't as bad. But I think big picture just in starting a business and what shaped a lot of the way that I've structured lawless and the way that we operate is I started Suja when I was so young. I mean, I was 24. The guy that I started with ended up being my boyfriend. We are still friends and luckily everything ended well.

But, you know, I was very naive and I was young. And so I think in the beginning, you know, being really thoughtful about the types of partners that you bring in, making sure that you have a shared vision for the future of the business. I think it's like planning to succeed, you know, the plan that you're going to succeed, plan that you're going to need to know that you guys are on the same page if the X, Y, Z happens, and talk about those things when you're small, because if you play small, you stay small. So plan for success and then make sure that you're collectively aligned for when that success happens. How does business look? How do we see it? Because I think as things grow,

and more and more and more people get involved and more and more and more of the team grows, there's a lot of hands in the pot and things can really start to take a different path. And so if you don't have that ironclad vision, that you're all on the same page from the very, very beginning, I think it's very easy to see the business morph into something that you may not be as passionate about anymore. I have no regrets. I still love the brand.

I still buy SUJA. I still am great friends with my original business partner. But I think when it was time for me to leave, I just realized I wasn't as passionate about things anymore. I wasn't as passionate about the types of products that we were creating. I wasn't as passionate about the marketing. just sort of direction and aesthetic and my role was really changed and, you know, things get much more corporatized. And so I think that's really my biggest learning is just like making sure

that I'm protecting as a creator and a founder, what I'm passionate about, the things I want to work on where I see the business going and the types of people that are involved and that we really are all aligned. Were you the only woman? Because I know you started it with your acting time. The beginning I was. I had female partners. I was the only, I was, it was four of us and I was the one female. With the holidays coming up and the new year upon us, which is so crazy, I know a lot of people are probably looking to change their diet, maybe make healthier choices when it comes to their food.

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So after a sale like that, I feel like a lot of people could have just been like, I'm done. I'm going to go rest on my laurels, whatever. So what did you do after that? I mean, was that hard? Were there challenges after like being in this exciting thing, growing it? And then all of a sudden you sell it and you're like, okay, now what? And then how did you end up doing lawless? Yeah, so actually it wasn't hard that first year. I think I was so ready for a break. I traveled a ton. I took some time off, but I didn't do Suja on the first place for money. I wasn't trying to build this business and sell it and have this exit. And it's amazing when it works out that way and it's awesome. But it was never about that. So it wasn't like when that happened, I was like, I'm done. I still had that like entrepreneurial spirit and that need to want to create. something. And I really kind of knew at the time that I left Sujah, because I wasn't feeling as passionate about what I was working on anymore, that it was really just to do something else.

Like I wanted to get that feeling back like from the beginning when you have to build something and there's that tension between not really knowing how and there's so much challenge ahead and you have a mountain to climb, but it's fun at the same time and you learn so much. And I wanted that back. And so the reason I took about a year is I was blogging at the time, which was really a great tool for me to figure out, like, what does my audience, what are they interested in? What are the types of things that they like? What can't they find? And I had switched over to clean skin care and as a completely just fun post, I did a blog post about my top clean skin care picks. At the time, Sephora was just starting to bring in brands like Tacha and Tata Harper.

And I was just getting really interested in what was in my skin care. And I was also had a YouTube channel was doing makeup tutorials totally separately. So I wasn't thinking about doing clean makeup. But I did this blog post and I got a bunch of questions in the comments about what my clean makeup recommendations were because I just shared all of my efforts to clean up my skincare routine. And I thought about that that I was using like George Ormani and Nars and Bobby Brown. And I was like, there's so much crossover and the ingredients in my skincare and makeup. And I'm sitting here talking about why I'm cutting these ingredients out of my skincare, spending more money on clean skincare and seeking out of clean products. yet I'm putting all the same ingredients back on my face five minutes later with my makeup. This is so silly.

And so I decided to buy a ton of clean makeup from like every clean makeup brand from Sephora, Whole Foods, obscure websites with organic makeup, you know, everything. And as someone that did YouTube makeup tutorials, I love a full face makeup. I wear a smoky eye like to go to work out. I mean, I love makeup. I need to watch. I see your tutorials on Instagram. I am the worst at makeup.

So you inspire me. Well, I think people think they're bad at makeup, but I'm not a classically trained makeup artist. Anyone can do it. You just need to watch tutorials, get some brushes that you feel really comfortable with and get products that make it so you can't mess it up. But I started experimenting with all this makeup,

and I was like, oh, my God, this makeup is just not for me. I am not a five-minute face, no makeup makeup kind of girl. I'm not going for that, which is beautiful, but I'm not going for that, like, glossier aesthetic. You know, I wish I could, but I personally just don't feel my best when I wear really sheer tinted moisturizer style makeup. I love a nice...

Like a clear mascara. Yeah, I just... No, I need to fill in my brows. I want a plastic lipstick. I want an eye shadow palette. You know, I don't want like a stick for my eyes, cheeks, and lips. I just really, I can't do cream products because I'm so oily. And so I really struggled

because I thought, okay, well, I'm really not willing to sacrifice the efficacy and performance of my makeup, even though I really do want to get better ingredients, but I just won't do it. And so that was when I realized, okay, I'm getting so many comments. People want to know more about clean makeup. There seem to be interested in using it. But they also follow my tutorials and they're kind of glam girls like me. So if there's no makeup for the makeup person out there, I need to create it. Like there's a white space and clean makeup. And at the time, and even now, clean color is still behind clean skin care. But I just had a feeling and knew that people were really going to start caring. They were going to start, I think clean skin care is trained us to check ingredients and things. We flip our products over now. We want to know what's in it. We want to know what types of oils are being used. If there's silicones and what types of waxes and what types of colorants, if there's talk. And so it was just sort of like, okay, if I can't find clean makeup that I want to use, there have to be so many other women out there like me. So I'm just going to go create it. So you just named some ingredients, but what are some things that people should be looking for,

whether it's in their clean skin care or in their clean makeup? So one thing that I didn't know before that's in, I would say, like, 99% of makeup that's conventional is fragrance. And I learned this only in the formulation process, but to keep it proprietary to a brand, the FDA allows you to just list it as fragrance. And you can hide so many different ingredients in your fragrance blend. So especially if you have skin, irritation acne, there could be something irritating you and you can't even check if it's in the product, if it's in the fragrance blend. A lot of essential oils can be hidden in there that are irritants. So that's one thing that I used to not worry or care about it all and that really

started to bother me. Another one that really is one of my top things that a lot of clean skin care brands still have, or clean makeup brands still have. And Sephora does allow on the clean silicones. And there's two things about silicones. It's not because, totally proven that you absorb them and that they're like toxic. However, for me, it's more from a vanity perspective because silicones, which is also in a lot of primers, they give you that really smooth feeling on your skin. They create a wax like coating over your skin and kind of fill your pores. But the thing about that is it causes acne on me. Like I get, and it's not like cystic acne, but I get all this little texture. And I never really knew what to do about it because it was like

not even that red. It was almost like flesh colored, but I just had this like texture. And I found out that it was silicones. And that's dimethicone, trimethicone. It's tons of different names for it. But it's in so much makeup. And it's what gives that beautiful blurred airbrushed effect. But I've become really passionate about finding silicone alternatives that are clean and that don't suffocate the skin and essentially clog and plug the pores. So it still lets your sebum come out and let's moisture and water and oxygen go in. I heard you talking in another podcast about silicone. Isn't it also what makes Like if you use something with silicone and then you put makeup over it, that's what makes the makeup pill up. Yes. So you have to also worry about compatibility of your silicone-based products with your water-based products, which is very annoying. So silicone, because it creates that wax-like coning, if you rub it enough, it will start to pill and ball up. But it also, the same way like water and oil or yeah, water and oil repel each other, silicone and water repel each other. So if you use a moisturizer that's water-based or a foundation that's water-based over a silicone-based primer or a silico-based.

foundation, they're going to interact. And so even if it doesn't pill up upon application, if you're gentle and you don't like a blend, throughout the day, it's going to start to break up. And so a lot of times people think my makeup's breaking up, it's separating my, it's my foundation. It could be your foundation, but it's the interaction of the products together with like a water-based product and a silicone-based product or even an oil-based product and a silicone-based product. So when you remove silicone from both your skincare and your makeup, you don't have to worry about. They all work together. Amazing. That is such a good hack, because there's nothing worse when you're doing your makeup.

And you've just done all your skincare and everything is on. And then you go and you put your foundation or your concealer or whatever. And you go to blend it. And then it just pills and you have to start everything over. Makeup wipe, start all over. And it could be your skincare too, by the way. So if you're using a foundation that's more water-based, there are a lot of times is dimethicone in moisturizers because they want you to have that

really like silky feel when you put it on. That was one thing I discovered when I switched skincare. was there so much silicone in moisturizers, like everything I had. And so that was a big thing I cut out. I think it's absolutely genius because I have tried so many times to get clean makeup. And it's the same thing. Like I'll put the foundation on or whatever. And it's like watery and it just gets all like, I don't know, weird and dry and cracked on my face.

It's very minimalist. It's not effective. And I'm kind of like, I feel like I'm kind of between like a glossier and a full makeup. Like I want to, I mean, you can't tell right now. I'm in the dark. But I like some coverage. I like to, you know, have a little bit of a makeup look going on during the day. Like a no makeup makeup, but not like actually no makeup, if you know what I mean.

Totally. And I think it's also with performance. You don't have to look like they're wearing tons of makeup. But you also like don't want it to be sliding off if you do for something in mind. Even if it's a little skin tint, you still want it to be like there. Yeah, like effective. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay, so I am just thinking about the audience, and I'm sure they're thinking this as well as myself. But when you have an idea for a brand, you see a gap in the market or whatever, and you have a product that you really want that you can't find anywhere, how do you take that from concept to production? Like, what are the steps that you take? And does somebody need to have, like, all of the financial backing and everything, if they have an idea and they want to see it through? financially no there's investors for that i was very very fortunate my second time around that i had enough capital that i could fund my own business for the first two and a half years um so that i could just maintain full control not have any other hands in the pot do things the way that i wanted to do them but 99% of new little startup businesses take some sort of capital i mean it's just expensive

to start a business and there's no two ways around it and in terms of steps to take it's different for every business. And my one big piece of advice is just start. I've never started a business with a business plan. I, like I said earlier, I'm not a business person. I'm never the smartest person in the room when it comes to business discussions. I'm not the wizard of how to start a business. I was really young when I started my first business and was often the youngest, most inexperienced person in the room. But if you are passionate about something, just know you are the most valuable asset to that business. And so even investors can come and bring money, you can get money from a lot of places. No one can replace you.

You're the vision. You're the product. You're the brand. You're the creative. You're the heart and soul of the business. And so I think as long as you have that, you have the tools that you need. And so like, for example, with Lawless, I had no experience in beauty whatsoever. I came from beverage.

None of my previous business contacts in the food beverage space were people that I reached out to thinking that they would be able to help me. You know, it's two different worlds. So I literally just started Googling, clean makeup manufacturers, calling, meeting with tons of people, asking a lot of questions about ingredients, asking a lot of questions about their process, asking what brands they work with if they would be able to share.

Most cases, they wouldn't. Asking how big they were, asking what it would cost. Like, just gathering all sorts of information, comparing and understanding who I wanted to meet with. And then I would just drive to meet these people. I would start asking more questions, explain what I wanted to do if that was something in their wheelhouse, if that was something feasible, what it would cost to take an idea like mine from start to finish. I launched with no plans to be

in Sephora. I was truly just doing it to get back on the horse and have something fun to work on again. I launched on my own D-to-C site. It was a Shopify site. I used a basic template. I fulfilled out of my little San Diego 3PL. I started with one skew, which was liquid lipstick and eight shades. I did all the photography, myself at my husband's hotel. It was not a major operation. So I think it's really easy if you want to start a business to look at other businesses that you admire and aspire to and think that that's what you need to look like now.

And no business starts like that. Everybody starts somewhere and grows and grows and builds and builds. And so I think that's why my advice is just start somewhere, make calls, try to get meetings, ask questions, connect with like-minded people that you admire. Do a big deep dive on other brands. What do you like? What don't you like? Start coming up with vision boards. Start coming up with packaging ideas. Start reaching out to manufacturers. Just start. You know, spend a chunk of your day working towards that. And pretty soon you're going to start to put the puzzle pieces together. And now that I'm four years into Lawless, I feel like I know tons about beauty.

Like I could coach someone else how to start a beauty brand. But back then, I have to start a beauty brand. but back then, I had no freaking clue what I was doing. And so that's my testament that you will figure it out, but it's taken a long time for me to piece the puzzle together and learn and pivot and change. And even now, you know, I'm still meeting with new manufacturers, still making efficiencies and getting costs down and figuring out how to cut steps out of my supply chain.

And you just figure those things out as you grow. I love that. That's super inspiring. What is your favorite product, your favorite lawless? product. This is really hard because I really do create them all. And I kind of, when people ask me how I decide to launch a product, it's truly like I just tick off the list of like, I really need this. Okay, I need to create it. But I'm doing tutorials and now I don't have like this. So that'll be my next one. But I would say what I'm really passionate about right now is our forget the filler line

smoothing, thumping gloss because I just, I'm wearing it now. I'm obsessively applying it. I'm So I knew this product and I was pregnant actually when I became aware of this ingredient called maxi lip and then it could be put into glosses. But the reason I like it is I've always loved the look of filled lips, but I'm such a wimp and I could never get a needle put in my lips. But I have normal lip lines like everyone, unless you have filler, but I love the look of filler. So I found this ingredient and it essentially is a treatment. So there's all sorts of plumping glasses out there, but I feel like they sting your lips. They smell really fruity. They only work temporarily while they're on your lips.

And then they're done. And they're uncomfortable. So this ingredient is more of like a treatment. It's a dermatologic ingredient that increases your lip volume by 351% in vitro. It's been proven in clinical studies. Upon application, it increases your lip volume by 40%. And it increases hydration by 60%. It has shay butter, rose hip oil.

And I just got obsessed with the idea of this. And so we launched it. and it's our hero product in the brand. And I just, it's probably the thing that I like wear the most, even when I'm wearing no makeup. Like, I wear it to bed. I'm so obsessed with it. And then I would say second is a tie between our mascara and our foundation.

Our foundation, I'm loving so, so much because I feel like it's the mix of both worlds. Like, it's skin tint girl that wants that really serumy, lightweight, super fluid liquid formula. But it's basically pure pigment. So you get all the coverage, but in the most lightweight skin, like feel. And I actually got this from a lab after I had kind of briefed them on the type of foundation I wanted to launch. And I didn't even test it for two weeks. I just let it sit because I felt it and it came in a dropper. And I was like, oh, this is going to be one of those like things I'm

just not into. It's going to be so sheer. And then finally, I tested it. And I was like, oh my God, I just can't get over it. It's self-setting. It kind of locks in. You powder's optional because it's got this velvety matte finish and it's silicone free. So it's just kind of like feels like a huge accomplishment because it's achieved everything I wanted to achieve without the ingredients that I wanted to keep out. And then finally is our mascara just because that's what I've worked the longest on. I have been working on the mascara since the beginning of the brand. And I love a volumizing mascara. So I felt like a lot of clean mascara just lengthened and darkened or like separated, but nothing gave me that like thick. I used to use Chanel volume and I love that like Bridget Mardot

thick lash. And I could not do it in clean. And so finally, after four years, of formulation and tweaking and getting nine different countries, labs submissions and just working with everyone, I finally crack the code. And I have not purchased another mascara in two years since I've had the lab submission. So that feels like a huge win too. So that was a really long answer to your question. No, I know. That's my favorite kid. I know. That's what I was thinking while I was asking you that. I am going to run out and get the lip, what is it called again? Forget the filler. Forget the filler. Forget the filler. Yeah. I think that's like very timely as well because I feel like a lot of people are moving away from like that overfilled look. And some people are doing like a little more restrained like more of just that hydrating look. But I think people are getting more cognizant about like what they're putting in their bodies and what that really is and whether they want that look. And like I am I get all the Botox and all the filler and do all the surgeries and everything. Like I love it. But I also have had the experience with filler where like it doesn't.

really fully go away and like you don't really want that in your face so much. I don't know. Even if you have felt lips, it's just, it's like a filter for your lips. This gloss literally just smooths your lines. And I feel like that's what I'm looking for with all my makeup. It's like I just wanted to enhance what I already have. I want it to make me like my lips more. I want it to make me like my eyes more. I want it to just bring out the best in me. And if you want to do whatever treatments, your makeup should still enhance that and make you feel if you have filler, but you still have lip lines or you still just want that really fresh, glossy lip. And I think for me, I think I'm starting to think about my makeup so much like my

skincare where if it's going to be sitting on my face all day, it should be doing something good for me. Because you think about it, like you put serums on. You're wearing your foundation just as long as your serum. Like it better have good ingredients for you that's like working for you. That's, you know, blue light protective, that's soothing, that's smoothing. Same with my lips. If I'm wearing a gloss, it might as well be increasing my collagen production. Like, why not? Yeah. Well, I'm sold. I'm very persuasive. Oh, well, I'm happy to go.

Support as well. Well, that is all really fascinating, super inspiring. Where can everybody find you? Where can everybody buy Lawless? All of that good stuff. I am easy to find. I'm just Annie Lawless on Instagram. I wish I were young and cool.

I'm not a TikToker. On my biggest platform is Instagram. And then you can find the brand at Lawless on Instagram and LawlessBee.com. And we are an exclusive Sephora brand. So we offer our full assortment at Sephora.com and in stores, in 54 stores at Sephora, and then nationally on the clean end cap in every store. Amazing. Thank you so much.

Thank you. I hope you enjoyed that episode. If you liked it, and if you like the show in general, please take a second to rate, review, and subscribe. It goes a long way, and it's actually the best way to support the show. Also, if you want to see more about each episode, you can head over to The Blonde Files podcast on Instagram. I'm always posting about each episode there or over on my personal page at Ariel Laurie.