Well with Arielle Lorre - 142: Everything You Need to Know About Skincare and What to Do from Brows to Boobs with Jennifer Hollander, MSN, FNP-C

Episode Date: December 1, 2021

In this episode I am talking to Jennifer Hollander, Board Certified Nurse Practitioner, skincare expert and cosmetic injector at Dr. Ben Talei’s Beverly Hills Center, about all things skin and aesthetics. We discuss skincare ingredients everyone should be using; REAL tips for prevention and healthy aging (besides SPF!); Botox, fillers and threads; how to treat specific concerns such as laxity, jowls, skin crepiness, hyperpigmentation, acne scarring, dark circles, sagging brows and more; the different lasers available and what they each treat, and so much more. From brows to boobs, we cover it all in this episode!   www.Oshensalmon.com with code BLONDE for 15% off your first purchase. www.Ritual.com/BLONDE for 10% off your first three months. www.Beekeepersnaturals.com/BLONDEFILES for 25% of your first order. Order any Lypo-Spheric supplement now from www.LivOnLabs.com/Blonde  and get a free sample of all six products plus a free shot glass free shipping on all orders in the continental US.   Produced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Sonderger Go to your Reisadviseur Orsonicars. The following podcast is a dear media production Hey, welcome to the Blond Files podcast. I'm your host, Ariel Lori, and I'm here to talk all things wellness.

From how to achieve optimal health and well-being to the best beauty tips and everything in between, no topic is off limits. I know there is so much information out there, so I'm here to help you navigate it all and live your best life. Thanks for listening. Let's get into it. Hi, everybody. Welcome to the show.

I have such a good episode for you today. It is like the ultimate girl talk, ultimate aesthetics episode, just everything you want to know about skin care, Botox, filler, lasers, how to treat different areas and concerns and what to do when and practical tips for prevention and maintaining healthy, beautiful skin at any age. And we are going like beyond the normal tips that you hear, not just hydration and SPF. So I think you guys will find this really useful. So I am talking to my friend Jen Hawley. She is a board certified nurse practitioner, cosmetic injector at Dr. Ben Talley's office in Beverly Hills. She is an acne buster and skin care expert and wellness officiado. And she is just so knowledgeable on all of these things.

So we discuss what skin care ingredients everyone should be using, how to treat specific concerns such as laxity, jowls, skin creepiness, hyperpigmentation, acne scarring, dark circles, stagging brows and more. We talk about the different lasers available and what they each can treat and what they can achieve and so much more. So from brows to boobs, we cover it all in this episode. So I hope you enjoy. Welcome, Jen. Hello. So official. I know. So excited to have you back, a repeat guest that so many people have been asking for. Can't wait to talk to you about all the skincare things. And I think the last time you were on was actually like 2019. Yes, I think. At the clinic. Yeah, it was before everything happened. Yes. So for anybody who isn't familiar with you

already, why don't you just tell the listeners a little bit about yourself what you do? Yeah, so I am a board certified nurse practitioner, a family nurse practitioner, and my specialty is in clinical and cosmetic dermatology. I'm originally from San Francisco. I moved here about 10 years ago. I used to be a bedside nurse, and I segued into this industry just because of my experience with my own problems with my skin and things like that. And so I knew at some point I'd go into this field. I just didn't realize it would happen so soon. So here I am. Okay. So before we get into all of the like aesthetic questions that people had, and I should mention that I had people send in questions on Instagram, so we're going to mostly use those today because there were so many. But before we get into those,

let's talk about skin care for a minute because you and I have been working together for how long now. Gosh, three years almost. A few years, you completely changed my skin. We did something a little controversial. I mean, controversial for, I'm like, if this is as controversial as I get, I'm doing okay. Like the fact that I don't use moisturizer, which is what I'm referring to. I'm like, what do you mean? I don't even know what you mean.

I posted a video about like not using moisturizer if you're having acne and people had some thoughts about it. So I'd love to have them here from you, the source, and also just talk about like skincare ingredients that everybody should be using and like what's good skincare in your 20s, 30s, 40s. So just universally, are there ingredients that you recommend everybody include in their skincare regimen? Yeah. So I'm a huge proponent of medical grade products. I oftentimes will have patients and just people online ask me, you know, what, you know, some of the products that I recommend tend to be a little bit more expensive. But there's a reason for that. I would almost classify them as cosmaceuticals because they are at a therapeutic level to the

where they're actually doing something to the skin. They're changing the skin versus some of the things that you would get at like Sephora or Walgreens and whatnot. In general, I tend to gravitate more toward medical grade products that you will usually find at a doctor's office. And universally, everybody should be using retinae. That is my number one thing for everyone because it's the gold standard for anti-aging. Of course, if you're a teen or, you know, if you're a teenager, you're not really going to be using retinae unless you have acne. Are there benefits, though? Sorry to interrupt you, but are there benefits to starting at younger? You know, when you're that young, your skin, I mean, assuming all things being normal, you're not cystic or you don't have acne or you don't have rosacea, you have perfect skin, not really.

So when should you start using retinae? Probably in your early 20s, I would say. Okay, I missed the boat by about 10 years. You and a lot of people, actually, but your skin is glowing today. It's never too late, is the point. But I do want to mention one thing about teens, and men and women in their early 20s, the sooner I can get them doing preventative things, the better. So, you know, making sure you wash your face twice a day,

wearing sunscreen of a 30 or higher, a vitamin C serum, if you can, tolerate it, you know, some type of high alluronic acid type serum. I'm just not a fan of moisturizers. I mean, there are certain skin types that tend to do very well with facial oils and can use moisturizers without making their pores look larger or their skin look dull, but that's not the rule. Can you explain that a little bit? Because I think when people hear a moisturizer, they think like dune us and, you know, like a lot of people, when I posted that video about moisturizer said, well, you need to lock in your serums and you have to lock in the moisture with something. But the other end of that, like the dullness and the large pores, I think that's something that a

lot of people don't think about you. You don't think of dullness when you think moisturizer. You think glowy and dewy. So can you explain that a little bit? Well, so, you know, people who have either really dry skin or really oily skin, their skin is weak. So oftentimes I'll have patients say, oh, if I don't use my moisturizer when I get out of the shower, my face is going to be dry as a bone. My answer to that is you've pretty much knocked out your skin's ability to generate its own oil production, and moisturizers will do that. So you get on this cycle of using the moisturizers, and then now you're dependent on it. The other thing about it is if you're not chemically exfoliating your skin with a retinae or aHA or BHA, and you are putting on the

moisturizer on top of dead skin cells, which is the outermost layer of your skin, your skin, your skin is going to look more, though, and it's just not healthy, and it's not doing anything for barrier other than maybe impeding it, I would say. What are some ingredients in serums if somebody is looking to stop using a moisturizer that they should look for? Sure. There are growth factors, peptides, stem cells. I would say polyphenols. I would also say vitamin E. vitamin A, that would be an hyaluronic acid for sure. That's one of the most popular things. It's a really large molecule. It's great for hydration. So that's pretty much great for everyone across the board. Ferulic acid, nicinamide, these are some of the things that we see most commonly

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But Richel didn't stop there. They invested in a gold standard university-led clinical trial to prove the impact of essential for women 18 plus multivitamin. And the results were that the multivitamin was shown to increase vitamin D levels by 43 percent and omega-3 DHA levels by 41 percent in 12 weeks. And the clinical study was published in leading scientific journal Frontiers in Nutrition, which is a big deal and a serious commitment to a first of its kind standard in the industry. So I have been taking ritual vitamins for a couple of years now. I just love them so much. I love their approach that they are just filling in the nutritional gaps in your diet. They're not trying to load you up with a bunch of things that you don't need. That might not be

effective. I also love their minty flavor. I really appreciate that in a supplement. And I really appreciate the time release. Other supplements make my stomach so upset. And there was a time recently where I actually tried adding something else. And within 20 minutes, I felt so sick. And I talked to my nutritionist. And he said, you really don't need all of this stuff. You just need a really good multivitamin like ritual. So love to keep it simple. So right now, ritual is offering my listeners 10% off your first three months, just visit ritual.com slash blonde and turn healthy habits into a ritual. Again, that's 10% off at ritual.com slash blonde. Hi, it's your friend, Alexandra Potora. I don't know if you're ready for this, but if you are,

take a listen to Backbone, Not Wishbone, a podcast about business, career, money, and of course, wellness, because what good is success if we're a bunch of fucking wrecks, right? I'm sharing the most granular and specific tips and tactics for success in business and achieving wellness. So come to Backbone at Wishpaon. Let's connect and let's succeed together. Okay. So when it comes to Retinae, I did get so many questions about this. Somebody asked me, is 0.25? Or is like a lower percentage not even worth it? Like, is it only worth it if you're using a certain grade? It depends on the skin. So people who tend to be. be drier can't tolerate it as well as people like you and I who tend to be oilier. So a 0.025%

for someone like you or I is going to be like kicking dust off of a mountain. It's not really going to do much. But if you give it to someone, say, who's got that poreless, smooth skin that tends to be on the drier side, you know, you may want to either do the 0.025 cream. I don't like gel so much for anti-aging. I prefer cream because creams are. lot more tolerable than gels. Jells tend to penetrate a lot more rapidly. And it's often used. You'll see it in acne regimens. So, for instance, say somebody who has like our friend Nicole, super smooth, poreless skin, she would do much better on a retinal or a very low-grade retinae, just because she's drier. She's going to have more side effects. She's going to have more redness,

flaking, itching versus you and I. We have more oil. Our skin is thick. It's sebaceous. We can tolerate a lot more concentration of a retinae. So wait, what's the difference between retinae and retinol? Retinol just simply said it is a watered down version of retinae. So it's just not a strong, basically. It carries fewer side effects. You can use it more frequently versus retinae. You know, most people can't tolerate more than three nights a week without getting red and itchy.

Like I know. So that's the major difference. Okay. And then how should people start inquire? incorporating it. Like I, even though I feel like my skin is more oily, sebaceous, like you said, can kind of handle a lot more. It is definitely an adjustment. And there were so many times, I think it took me so long to start consistently using retinae as it does for so many people, because that initial adjustment phase is like such a deterrent because you start to maybe break out a

little bit. You start to get the redness, maybe flakiness. Like, what do they, they call it the ugliest? The uglies. And I mean, I would like do once a week for like a month and then do like twice a week and just kind of ease into it. But there are still times when I feel like it's hard. And I think you've said that you can sandwich it right or like put it over. That's my new thing. That makes a big difference. Yeah. So how do you recommend people start using it? So one thing I want to say kind of going back to what you were asking earlier is what the differences would be retinol retinae. You can't use retinae on your body, but you can use retinol on your body, which I really love, neck, chest, other parts of the body. I've used retinae on my body.

Yes. I was like, oh, if it works for the face, can work for the body. But in terms of how to incorporate it into your regimen, starting slow, small amounts, kind of like what you were doing, one night a week, maybe for the first four weeks, that's going to help to prevent some of these side effects from forming because half of the time I'm trying to talk patients off of the ledge because they think that they're having this awful reaction when in fact either they didn't put it on in the correct order, which I'll get to, or they're using too much of it too frequently. So my recommendation would be to start by using a P size only at night, one to two nights a week if it's a retinae, whether it's a 0.025 to a 0.1 percent, and that even

goes for Tazirac, which is another type of retinoid, you want to start using it very slowly. And in terms of order of operation, you want to put on some type of hydrating serum on first. So, for example, I'll put on for my skin a hydrate B5 gel, which is a high alluronic acid serum, and then I'll go over it with my retinae, and then I'll go over it with a growth factor serum that almost feels like a primer. Is that the zoe? It's the zoe. I miss that.

I had to specify it. It's so good. Stop using it. Remember when my skin was freaking out? And so I had to like stop using everything except the basics. Maybe I can start using it again because that was my favorite. It's a good one. It's a good one because it smells really good and it feels really good when you put it on.

And it's a great primer before you put on any makeup. So even during the day, you can use it as like the last thing. Yeah, I remember this girl DM'd me and I felt so bad for her because she was asking me about retinae. Not that I'm a professional or anything. I mean, experience about it before. And she said my dermatologist put me on retinae and I don't know what to do. Like I'm freaking out. I feel like I can't even go to work. It's like painful. And I said, well, how often are you doing it? She said, well, I'm doing it every night after I wash my face on dry skin. I was like, holy shit. It's like nails on a chalkboard. Yeah. I was like thinking of that emoji with the red man face with the hair. Like, because that's how I feel when I get like any kind of procedure done. But I was like, oh my God. I mean, talk to your dermatologist, like, I'm not a professional, but I think maybe, like, you can scale way back. I hear this so often. Do you?

This is my one problem. And this is why I'll often say go see a cosmetic dermatologist. Because clinically, they're thinking about it clinically, like, okay, if someone has acne, let's just give them some retinae. Or if they're asking, oh, you know, what can I use to, like, you know, help my skin age slower? Oh, here's some retinae and, you know, see you in a month. You can't do it that way. As you know, you've come to my office, you see there's a skincare plan. And I number everything in the order of operation because especially for someone who doesn't really

have a plan or really has never had a plan and then you throw five to six steps to them in the morning at night and it's going to overwhelm them. You literally give a piece of paper that has a.m. PM and the order and then I'm still texting you. It's a lot. What do I do when? It is a lot. It's a lot.

So, you know, a big part of my job. is sitting with a patient, explaining to them, explaining the why. Because when they understand the why, then they remember, yes, I have to put this on before I put this on. This makes sense. Otherwise, this is going to happen. So I'll often hear just kind of any skin care thrown at patients by, you know, dermatologists, and not to, you know, knock dermatologists. I know a bunch of great dermatologists, but I hear this really often. And there's no rhyme or reason as to why that particular skincare products is being prescribed to that patient. And when you ask me, you know, what are the top few ingredients that would be good for everyone? I was struggling a little bit because everybody

has such different skin types. Some people, I can't tolerate a vitamin C serum. So I can't recommend that for everyone. You know, or a moisturizer or, you know, whatever it may be, or even retinae. So it really is, how should I say, you have to really tailor it to each person. And I think that's super important. I was not tolerating vitamin C very well. And then I started using summer Fridays. Frickin' game changer. What's in it? What's different? I send you the ingredients, I think, when I started using it to be like, is this okay? And you looked and you were like, yeah, it seems fine. I'll show you after. But yeah, it's almost like hydrating in some way. It doesn't have oil. And it doesn't break you out. No. That's amazing. No. And it's like, I mean, it's like a really good

primer, although I use sunscreen on top of it, but it just makes your skin like so doy. So shout out summer Fridays. Do you know what percentage of the vitamin C is? So everybody should make sure that whatever type of vitamin C they're using, it needs to be at least 10 percent. Otherwise, it really isn't doing much for you. And that's kind of going back to what I was saying earlier about therapeutic levels in your skin care. I'm trying to pull it up right now. Oh, I don't get Wi-Fi? It's probably not. It might be. I mean, it very well might be. And I love that it's not breaking you out because people love. Yeah, great. Yeah. Love it. Okay. So I'm just thinking of another question that I got that I am going to ask you now, just in case we forget later. But a lot of people wanted to know,

what is the best thing to do for like prevention in your 20s or what your 30s, whatever, aside from SPF. Everyone's answer is always SPF because it's so important. But is there something else that people can do? Yes. Okay. So a big part of my work is, you know, as nurses, we treat the total person. And we're not just looking at one organ. We're not just looking at one thing. And so a big part of my consultation kind of looks at, well, what is your lifestyle like? What are you consuming? What are your habits, what are some of the things that you're doing in your life that might be contributing to accelerated aging? Like smoking, like alcohol, stress, not really having a community of people that you get together with regularly, all of these things, believe it or not, really contribute

to your overall well-being. And what's happening internally will manifest externally. And so diet is a huge part of my consultation, especially when I'm talking to patients that are in the, know, 20s and 30s that are just trying to, you know, trying to find ways besides, you know, using SPF or skin care to make them, you know, make their skin look better. So exercising regularly, getting enough sleep is a huge one. I know that when I don't sleep well, I look like crap. When I don't sleep, I look like a raisin. It's like my entire face shrivels up. That was me yesterday. I was like, who is this monster in the mirror? Oh, my God. That's so funny. You really can see it.

So lifestyle is a huge one. So sleep, exercise, diet, you know, eating, you can't be perfect. You have to have a life. But like, what kind of foods are you eating? What does nutrition look like for you? And, you know, minimizing sun exposure for sure, but also, like, not drinking too heavily, which what do we do when we're in our 20s and teens and, you know, you're in college and you're having a great time? That's all fine. But it accelerates aging tremendously. I think it's just so hard because when you're that age, you don't see it. Like when I was in my 20s, I was smoking a pack a day, going on three-day benders, like doing all the drugs and all the alcohol, sleeping in my makeup for four days. Oh, my God. Baking myself in the sun and I looked fabulous. Yeah. So it's like at that age, I feel like no, you can't tell somebody. You are, you nailed it. And actually, that is something I tell to all the 20-year-old girls that come in to see. that are like looking for Botox or whatever it is. And I'm like, listen, you have no idea what you're going to look like in 20 years, but I do. And this is, and I know, and you can't, hopefully they can hear it. Yeah.

And as you get closer to 30, you start paying attention. Yeah. Because every year, something new pops up. Yeah. So. And then after 30, it's just, it's just. New surprises every day. You're just like trying to keep up.

Yeah. Try to keep up. Wackamol. Total whackamol. So funny. Yeah. Another thing that people always ask me is like, what would you tell your 20-year-old self or your 23-year-old self? And I used to like try to come up with something like profound to say.

And then actually I think it was Chuck who was on my show. And he was like, I asked him that question. He's like, I wouldn't have listened. Like there's nothing I could have told myself because you don't listen. And that's like the thing with, especially with SPF and sun exposure, like when I was younger, being as tan as humanly possible was the vibe. And now it's not. So people who are like younger nowadays are so lucky because they're not going to probably have to deal with the sun damage that people from later generations have. But I remember my mom who's very like into her skin and conscious about all of that would tell me this is going to. show up later and you're like, no, it's not. I was such a brat. I was like, when I'm your age, like, you old lady, they're going to have technology that can like get rid of it. It was just so

arrogant. Right. I mean, I do IPL and it has helped. I mean, we all are arrogant when we're in our 20s. You know, we're kind of invincible and we're not going to change. But it starts changing fast. All you young ins who are listening. Yeah. So, you know, the other big people, piece is apart from the drinking, smoking, and then just a really basic skincare routine. It doesn't have to be crazy. I think Botox is great, you know, done appropriately. This is a big question that I get asked is, do you Botox 20-year-olds? And the answer is it depends. You know, I had a girl come in recently who came in because all of her friends were doing it and

she was 21 and she didn't have a wrinkle on her face. And if she did, it was so minimal that I had to put my loops on just to have a look at it. So I gave her a skincare plan and told her, come in for a laser treatment. That's your wheelhouse. Lasers, skin care, and prevention. And then she probably went to the med spa down the street and got Botox floutift. Yeah, bothotoc thrall left, right? Oh, my God.

It's such a trend. I know. It's crazy. So let's talk about that. I was thinking of how to organize these questions. And I think we'll just kind of go by like the anatomy of the face. So let's start from the top. Usually I feel like one of the first places that we see aging is kind of around our eyes,

maybe a little bit of like sagging in our brows, a little bit of crow's feet, crepiness. Well, let's talk about a Botox browlift. I think that there's a misconception now that a Botox browlift can give you the result of like a surgical browlift or facelift. Totally. Do you see that in your practice, like people coming in with unrealistic? expectations when it comes to that? Never. No, all the time. I mean, they'll position their fingers like this and they'll go, is it going to do this? And the answer is no, that's a surgical intervention. And threads come up a lot like, what about if I do it with threads? And, you know, when done safely

with the right doctor, I think, you know, for an event or whatnot, once or twice, fine. Threads, you're saying? Yeah, but it's trying to achieve an outcome that is, better managed surgically just for safety reasons and also for long-term, long-term investments. So I'm not a huge fan of it myself. I don't do threads at my practice. But in terms of the brow lift with Botox, you can absolutely achieve a nice brightening effect around the eyes. So you can raise the medial portion of the brow by a couple millimeters. That's the inside of the brow that she's pointing to. Yes. And then laterally as well. So you can raise the medial portion of the brow by a couple millimeters. laterally as well. So you have a little donut of a muscle around each eye. And when you inject

just small blebs of Botox laterally, you can get this nice retraction. And Botox opposes the muscle's natural direction of movement. And so if this is a sphincter muscle, it likes to kind of dilate and come out. So you get this nice brightening effect of the eye. Hmm. I just had another question. And I'm trying it on that because I was thinking how badly I need a little lateral. A little pickup here and here. Well, since you said that you could do it for like an event or something, if somebody's thinking about doing it, what should they expect?

I know that you don't do threads. But I think that even practitioners who do it don't necessarily tell somebody the realistic outcome. And that's the thing. Yeah. If you're not looking for dramatic change, you may want to consider it. It's very painful and it's very expensive and it's very short-lived. So that's not really a good deal in my opinion.

No. And it's all like, what are you trying to achieve here? Are you trying to achieve a fox eye situation? That's what everybody wants. It's a horrible look, in my opinion. That's just my opinion. You see some crazy ones on my explorer feed from like, I don't know, Turkey or Russia, where they are literally like spock. I mean, straight up and out.

It's crazy. People have lost touch with what. a normal human face looks like. Totally. But I feel like even with that, after the initial swelling goes off, like that's even going to go down. People don't realize. I saw one place that does threads actually say on their Instagram caption or whatever that it doesn't lift the brow. It can elongate the brow and that results are minimal and will last like six weeks. And I was like, oh, so somebody finally said it. Right. That's the truth. It's like, yeah. But that's the only place that I've ever seen. say that. And there are like major complications that can have to do that as well with like asymmetry

and like prolonged swelling and yeah, not my vibe. I just when I got them in my cheeks not to like go off on a tangent about threads. It's a big topic. Yeah. I mean, it was so painful. And I was talking to someone about it yesterday, I think, on another podcast and I was reliving it. So it's fresh in my head. But like I, I remember I had to podcast like two days after I got them. And I was like, I couldn't move my face at all for like weeks. Are you scared? It was shockingly painful and traumatizing. Shockingly.

And I've done a lot. And then after it was done, I was like, holy shit, I cannot move my face. I cannot smile. I can't laugh. It's hard to eat. I looked pretty crazy. And then I had complications. Like I had one that was kind of poking out.

No way. Which is such a, just weird feeling. No, it's like not worth it at all. I would rather go in the direction of like skin tightening procedures, which you can actually get really great results with. Yeah. But everybody wants that quick instant like fix. Yeah.

Well, and people advertise threads as what all the young models are doing. So people who don't know much about like what else is out there, just, you know, correlate the two and think that that's going to be their result. And yeah, it's crazy, crazy expensive to maintain very risky. If you're doing it constantly, I can't imagine that you wouldn't have a complication. Well, nobody thinks about like long-term effect either. Yeah, that's like, what are you going to look like in five years? Yeah.

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Okay, so how about Crow's Feet? So, Botox is the best thing for Crow's Feet or getting in front of them as soon as possible. So I'm very expressive around my eyes, and that is like the first thing that goes. So any area that you tend to move the most, any Botox that you do will go away a lot more rapidly. In some cases, you need to do a little bit more than Botox because maybe somebody hasn't started Botox until they were about 50. It happens, or 40. And they've got these really creasy static lines.

So what you want to do is maybe use either a CO2 laser on a high setting, or you can do some TCA, trichloric acid peel, deep peel. Some of those things will help to soften the line significantly and just kind of make the overall tissue in that area just look a lot smoother. That was the next question that I had was under eye creepiness. I feel like that is so... Everyone's nemesis. Yes.

Because it's hard. Like, you don't want to fill it and then have like puffiness. And it's like hard to get with Botox, right? Because it's not really a muscular to be so careful with Botox there. So I used to do, anyway, I do micro talks. But I used to get really close to this area here. And the problem with doing that is your muscles, I always try to equate it to like a Pilates table or whatever. it is. It's like you have these cords that are tied and the moment you release it,

you're flying, right? Same thing with the muscle. So all of a sudden, these muscles are now moving in a strange way where you smile. So you have to be very, very careful about being really conservative and just using like little half units in this area in very deliberate areas, like very deliberate locations. So Botox, yes, but more like resurfacing with skincare products and with lasers. What are your thoughts on a lower lid skin pinch? It's like not a full blephroplasty. It's just the excess skin.

I don't really know. I don't really have a lot of experience with that. I haven't seen that. Yeah, I can't really respond to that because I don't know. A full-on blephroplasty can look fantastic. Yeah. And in that surgery, they do, you know, address that, you know, kind of tissue laxity. but just if you had no volume changes in that area and you just wanted to improve, yeah, I think

that's considered a canthopexy. Oh. Yeah. Hmm. Okay. I was also going to ask you about the CO2. Who is a good candidate for like a CO2 or what was the other thing you said, a TCA peel? Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so I really love using TCA around the eyes. Why haven't we done that? I don't know. Oh, downtime. Oh. What's the downtime like? About a week, a full week. Oh.

All right. You're swollen, you're red for about the first two to three days, and then the tissue begins to break, dead skin, of course, and you're like with the aquafore. So it's kind of a whole thing. That sounds amazing. Yes. I'll often, like, combine. I'll do combined therapy, so I'll do profound with, which is a skin tightening procedure

with the TCA around the eyes. I'll also combine it with, you know, another type of chemical peel, like a VI peel. So they're great. I love them. Okay, what about cheeks? In terms of how to volumize cheeks, contour. Yeah, I think it can be great. I really love using restaline contour or restaline lift, which are HLA or high alluronic acid gel fillers. I like using gel fillers just because you can reverse them in case that you don't like them or for whatever reason. They're not permanent. I'm not into permanent anything. I think that both for men and women, I love doing cheek. on men especially because they can look really sexy. It can really masculinize in the nicest way possible on a man. And I like doing women as well, but it's just kind of fun to do it. Brian, you want to get some cheek filler? I'd love to get some cheek filler.

Let me have a look, Brad, see. No. See, Brian naturally has great cheekbones. He has a great contour. So one of the most common things that I'll see sometimes is people do two. much cheek filler and then they start to go out. And then what'll happen is they think that they need temple filler when in reality they just need to dissolve that that cheek filler and then and then they won't look as hollow anymore. So where should people skeletor vibes? Even though it's different

for everybody. Should they be putting the filler like up here more like lateral cheekbone or? No, it's just how should I say it? This is the maxillary eminence right here. Oh yeah. Everyone knows. Gosh. So I would just say kind of the height of the cheek where you do your flush, laterally out right close to this area here. I don't know how to explain this. Kind of near the top of your ear. Kind of near the top of your ear, yes, so to speak. But you can't just put little aliquan on the filler across. You have to contour it. I really love using cannulous for that because you can really thread kind of soft, you know, lines of filler and get this really, really nice swoosh, if you will.

Like a Nike swoosh. The Nike swoosh across the cheek. It's hard to explain it. It's more of a visual thing, but I think when done tastefully, and actually in some scenarios, you just need to add like a dot right here, the height of the top of the cheek, lateral to the eye, it just adds like highlight, what would look like highlight. I love that. Yeah.

Okay. Another area where we start to see aging is. the jawline, the jowls. That's another super common question. I feel like the younger women ask me about like brows and eyes and then women that are like maybe 30s approaching 40s, that area, are all asking about jowls. So what are the treatment options there? Well, if it's not a surgery, which I know that sounds insane, but some people are actually candidates for surgery. Like a facelift? Like a facelift. You know, if you have redundant skin, you're a candidate. Like excess.

Yeah. So, you know, the jowls kind of, you know, are just a little bit lateral to the mouth, right in this little area here near the jaw line. And this begins to kind of form because you've lost volume in the midface mostly. So this, you know, is all connected, the corner of the eye. So the teartrefer. Yep, in the eye corner. And then down the nasal alveal fold into the marionette and in the pre-gile. This is all one unit.

And as you lose volume in the tear trough area, everything else begins to, all the support begins to fall. Wonderful. Downstream. I love that. So that's one thing to think about. Uh-huh. And then, of course, you know, you're losing bone, muscle, fat, collagen every year.

And so the skin really has nowhere to go. So in terms of treatment options, depending on the severity of the volume loss, you may just need a little bit of filler, a little bit of under eye filler, a little midface, little nasal labial fold, turn things up a bit. in some cases you need skin tightening and then perhaps follow it with a filler in like six months. You mean like like a profound? Yeah, like profound RF.

Yeah, I really love that. I love it because not only does it help with the volume, the volumetric changes, but it also helps with the quality of the skin. It makes you look more radiant. You just look, all the shadows in the face look a lot softer. So what we would normally use to fill, you know, the profound would address that. And then in some cases, you would need to follow it with just maybe a touch of filler just to kind of get that little, you know, the icing on the cake. And then in some cases, it's a surgery.

How does profound differ from Morpheus, if at all? Because I feel like Morpheus is the one that more people are familiar with for whatever reason. A lot of younger people are really familiar. And actually, because everybody has Morpheus. Very few people have profound. Oh. I actually didn't know about profound until I met Dr. Talley. I mean, I had worked in the industry for about, I don't know, eight years prior to meeting him.

So I never heard about profound. I had done Titan, Excellus, Thermage, All Therapy. None of them do anything, just for the record. And I lost my train of thought. You had done all therapy, thermage. And then you didn't know about Profound until you met Ben. Oh, yes. Okay, so the difference between Profound and Morpheus 8.

profound is four times stronger than Morpheus 8. It has more heat. It requires, Morphias 8 requires a series of three, I believe it's a series of three. And profound, you just do one. And in terms of results, you know, Profound tends to have more dramatic results than Morphiase 8, and it carries more downtime. So those are kind of the biggest differences that you would see. They're both needling, they're both radio frequency. We don't love a lot of heat-based, repeated heat-based treatments. So, you know, doing things in a series is not our favorite thing to do, especially in the buckle area of the face. Because you can lose tissue? Yeah, this area is very sensitive to volume loss. And so, you know, doing the neck or maybe a little bit in the brow area, fine. But you

kind of want to do maybe one to two in a lifetime of the profound, two in a lifetime, maybe three. I did two in like two years. Right. And look at you. You look amazing. Yeah, but I feel like I have lower face laxity. Like the first profound that I did made such a big difference. I had, if you see my before pictures. I sure do. I had like a fat face. Nothing. Now I have like in intentionally that face. I put it back in there. But like, no, I mean, I had so much heaviness in my jaw area. Yeah. And like below my chin and my neck. I see those before pictures. I'm like, holy shit. But then for whatever reason, I guess I'm sure he had his reasons. But two years later, we did another one. Yeah. Same practitioner. Yeah. And maybe it's just normal aging. But now I'm like, I don't know. Did I do too much? You know, it would be interesting to like line up all the faces pre-profound and lip lift. and pre-dissolving of bad filler because what you're describing is what I had before all of that. So very doy.

You describe a fat face, and I never understood what a doy face meant until I saw the before photo. But now I'm like, I wish I want my doy face back. Well, you know, there's a difference between doughy and volume. Doey faces, they kind of look. That's true. I don't know. There's a look about it that just, it's not appealing. literally had no jawline. Like there was no. I can close my eyes and see that picture that you guys

have on your record. Maybe we should whip it out for this episode. But I just had like face down into neck. There was like no. Nothing differentiating. It's a nice, it cleans things up really nicely. And the other thing that you can do that I love doing is the Nefertiti lift, is where you place Botox just below the jaw line. And within about two weeks, you know, your jaw line looks a little bit more chiseled. You've got a little bit more shadowing in that area. It looks a little bit cleaner. So only lasts about three months, but it's a nice, you know, in between. What are your thoughts on like a Kaibela? You know, I haven't had a lot of success with Kaibela when I used it in the past. typically requires a series of three treatments. You know, you look like a bullfrog for about two

weeks after you've had the procedure. It's very expensive and you always have to follow with skin tightening. You must follow with skin tightening because you're basically debulking that area with the oxycolic acid and that tissue has nowhere to retract. So think about the amount of money that you're going to spend total on the Kaibela and then you've got to add skin tightening. You might as well do a weekend necklift. And a weekend necklift is Dr. Tully does. It's a, it's a microlipo with, yep, and then profound. Exactly. Love that. Add a couple more thousand and you have a weekend necklift. And a more permanent result. Right. Oh, absolutely. Okay. Last question that I have for you is about different lasers. So we talked about like the radio frequency microneedling for

tightening, but what about for surface issues? Like you and I together have done clear and brilliant, which I love. I've also done fraxil. We were talking about IPL a little bit. What lasers do you like for what? Sure. Yeah. So I, as you know, I love resurfacing lasers. I love clear and brilliant for kind of younger skin types. I love fraxil for most to anyone. I would say if you're over the age of 30, you're a fraxil candidate. I love it because you can use. You can use. You can use it on any part of the body, basically. So you can treat the face, neck, chest, arms. Arms. Yep. Arms for sun damage, for creping. You're basically like repaving the road with the raxil. Clear and brilliant is great, too. It's just less heat. It's not as deep. It's not as strong.

The beauty of doing clear and brilliant is it's safe for all skin types. And so it's, it promotes anti-aging. It slows down oxidative stress. It helps with sun damage, wrinkle. It helps with sun damage, wrinkles, fine lines, pores, the works. So I love it's one of my favorite devices because so many people can benefit from it. And it carries very little downtime. So that's great for that. And then I really love V-Beam for broken capillaries, rosacea, and just overall collagen stimulation. What else? I love CO2 laser for my acne scar patients. That's one of the biggest things that I treat at the practice is acne scarring. So I do a lot of combination therapy with the CO2. It's also really, really great for mature skin types. So somebody who has a lot of solar elastosis, lots of wrinkles,

they would really benefit from a full face CO2. What is the downtime like for that? Well, I would say for about the first week, you are a lizard. You are peeling and you are, I mean, We have hyperbaric oxygen chambers at our practice. So I would say that all of the flakies come off at about day five and about day seven. You know, you're relatively healed, but you're a little pink. So about the following week, you're just pink. And so I'll usually have you come in and I'll V-beam you to help with some of that pink. So like soup to nuts, I'd say two weeks on the CO2.

What about IPL? IPL, you know, I used to get a lot of use out of my IPL. Not so much anymore because people have changed. People are taking more care of their skin. I mean, I don't know if it's just Los Angeles. Usually people who come to me that have a ton of sun damage are visiting. They're not or they've never done anything for their skin ever. Right. So I don't really get a lot of use out of my IPL, but it's an amazing device. It's great for sun damage. You can pretty much treat anywhere on the body. You know, BBL is another similar idea, similar type laser that goes out. after sunspots. It doesn't do so much for the lighter pigment, however. So the best candidate for an IPL is someone who has fair skin and dark pigment. So if you are that person who has that kind of lighter brown spots, the IPL isn't going to do anything for you. And that's where the resurfacing laser comes in. Like a fraxil? Yeah. Okay, because I did IPL on my chest. Game changer. Like, holy, after we went to Tulum last January.

January. Did you get a lot of sun damage? I don't know. Did I get a lot of sun on that trip? I mean, no. I just don't remember. Did you get brown? Like a lot of brown stuff? I, so we went to Toulom. We were living our best life. Living our best life. Day one, like, just the most amateur move ever. It's like, how many times have you gone on vacation Ariel? Like, you know how to do this? And I was, I think I had SPF 20 on, but it's the first day. And I'm like starting to, you know, the sun. It didn't feel super hot. Yeah, I was like, all right, I'm getting my base. And then I'm like, keeping getting my base. And like, we were out there for the entire day. I don't think I reapplied. And I mean, I was like purple. They gave me like fresh aloe leaves. And I'm like in the shade the entire rest of the trip. It was so painful. And then after that, I don't know if it was from that time or like

if this is even possible. But for whatever reason, after that, I had a lot of sun damage come out on my chest. And I mean, I used to fry myself, like, tanning bed every day, followed by, like, beach all day kind of thing. So I'm sure it's there. And then maybe that just brought it out or from that particular burn. Could have been from that trip. But I did IPL. It got rid of, like, all of it.

Yep. Now I just have some lighter pigmentation in certain areas. So I feel like. Yeah, fracts will be perfect. Oh. It would be perfect. Oh. Yeah.

Okay. This is exciting. Yeah. Good to know. Great. Okay, so let me ask you a couple rapid fire questions because we did kind of answer a lot of the questions that I had from the listeners. But let me see if there's anything that we missed out on here. A lot of people asked about deep acne scars.

So you just addressed that. Is Botox effective for dark circles? No. What is effective for dark circles? You know, not a whole lot, if I'm being honest. You know, dark circles are a function of a few different things. things, volume loss, which we can correct with filler, but not 100%, underlying tissues that are now becoming more visible as you're aging because the collagen and the tissue in that area is getting

thinner. So muscle, vascular, there's nothing I can do about that. You don't want to even try. And then actually, in some cases, the filler can worsen that. So you really want to make sure that you're going to someone who can share that with you and can see that and let you know that that might be a risk. And then in some cases, it's just your genetic makeup. You know, some people just, one of my best friends growing up, you know, she was Moroccan,

and she had these really dark circles around her eyes. And in my opinion, it was beautiful. But the people who have it don't like it. Not a whole lot to be done there. And then also as you age, the tissue begins to kind of accordion immediately, and it becomes a little bit darker. So, you know, using eye cream. are great. Certainly they're not going to like improve it 100%. But you're trying to like tackle the

problem in every angle, right? So, you know, but as far as darkening, it's not, there's not a whole lot to be done. Okay. That was my next question. Eye creams, are they worth it? Yes. Okay. What's your favorite eye cream? I have three. Okay. So my first one right now is the Defenage 3D eye cream. I love that one. I love it too because I'm really affected around my eyes as I said. Earlier, you know, it's like my problem area. I still haven't done a TCA underneath my eyes, like not for a while at least. And I love it because it's very creamy. It has a creamy, creamy consistency. I used to use the Zio one. It wasn't enough for me. It's a little bit more slippery, which I like it. Patients love it. I carry different eye creams just because different

people need different things. And I just tell you, you know, that's – and then the last one that I really love is by a company called Sante, and it's the Illuminate eye serum. Very good. Hmm. Okay. Best treatment for chest lines. Well, probably a combination therapy of what I really love would be fraxal, and then I'd like to mix a little cocktail of PRP and Botox or Disport, and inject it very superficially into those little tiny fine lines. Interesting. How would you treat the neck? Like if you have creakiness, say, like towards the front of your neck, not really in the jaw area? Yeah. Probably profound. Probably skin tightening. Yeah. I mean, you really want to hit it hard. And then also you want to manage it with retinal, not retinae, and peptides to kind of help stimulate new skin proteins to form. So you're going to do your radio frequency, needling treatment, and your skin. therapy. Okay. Last one. What are your thoughts on things like guasha, facial massage, facial

manipulation? Are they effective? Yes. I really think it's great for lymphatic drainage. Some people just have sluggish sinus drainage and they look puffy all the time and the moment they do the guasha. They look a lot thinner in their face and they look a lot more lifted and more awake. So I think it works very, very well. Do you feel like you can, I mean, I see this like trending a lot on Instagram, like the face gym or like people that say that you can manipulate the muscles on your face to like raise your brows and pull in your jaw. Sure.

And, you know, I think that there might be something to it. I just, my question would be, well, how long is this lasting exactly? So you do it on a Monday, but is it still working? working by Friday? Like I feel like they say you have to do it every day. Like you have to like certain things happen to your muscles. As we know like muscles, tissue, bone, all of that changes while you age. But they say like, I don't know. I'm going to butcher this because I don't know exactly what they say. But the whole idea is that like your muscles, you have to work out the muscles in your face the same way your body if you want things to be a certain way. Right. But there are other tissues

next to the muscle that you, I just, well, so my other question would be, are there noticeable changes that you can see? Like if you did one, like a side by side, I've never actually done it before personally and I haven't known anyone to do it. So I wonder. I mean, I got a, big question mark. I got a John 2 facial massage before, I can't remember what a word show it was a couple years ago. He is like known for his facial manipulation, massage. He used all kinds of. of like crazy tools. He like beat my face up in the best way. And I came out of there looking like I had a full blown facelift. It was crazy. But, you know, it lasts a couple days. Maybe like, obviously people do it before events because right after you're like, holy shit. I mean,

there's that guy, the beauty sandwich, Ivan, I can't remember his last name. So you look really good for a couple days. But then like things fall back into place. Right. I mean, that's awesome. I'd love to try that sometime. Yeah, except it's $1,500 for a massage. Yeah, I don't know. I would, I probably would, yeah, choose Botox over that. Right, because you're going to get like a more lasting result. Yeah, like three, four months. Yeah. Yeah. For a fraction of that. All right. Well, I have so many more questions. We'll just have you come back for a part three. I would love to. Where can everybody find you? You can either find me on my Instagram page, Jen.hollander, J-E-N-N-N-Hollander. I also work at Beverly Hills Center in Beverly Hills, California.

And, yeah, Dr. Talley's office. Yes, Dr. Bent Talley's office. And we have a lot of fun there. It's a party. It's always a party at work. It is a party. If you go there after hours, you might hear some, like, smooth R&B. Oh, my God.

Some employees doing Botox on each other. Oh, my gosh. Yes, exactly. Am I allowed to say that? Dr. Talley and I stick each other all the time. All right, well, thank you. Thank you. I hope you enjoyed that episode.

If you liked it, and if you like the show in general, please take a second to rate, review, and subscribe. It goes a long way, and it's actually the best way to support the show. Also, if you want to see more about each episode, you can head over to The Blonde Files podcast on Instagram. I'm always posting about each episode there or over on my personal page at Ariel Lori.