Well with Arielle Lorre - 156: Relationships, Cheating and Daddy Issues with Dr. Jenn Mann

Episode Date: February 16, 2022

In this episode, I'm talking to Dr. Jenn Mann, licensed psychotherapist, author, and host of VH1's Couple's Therapy. We discuss all things relationships; when to stay vs. leave a relationship to the number one reason men and women cheat. We also tackle my own "daddy issues" and the roles parents play in our adult relationships. And with relationships comes sex, so we chat about what makes for good sex, misconceptions of men, and scheduled sex.   www.Helloned.com/BLONDE for 15% off your order. www.DrinkLMNT.com/BLONDEFILES for your free sample pack, you just pay $5 for shipping. www.Athleticgreens.com/blondefiles for a free 1 year supply of vitamin D and 5 free travel packs with your first purchase. www.Arrae.com with code 'blondefiles' for 10% off one-time purchases or 25% off first month of subscription.   Show Notes: www.DoctorJenn.com    Produced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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is a dear media production. Hey, welcome to the Blond Files podcast. I'm your host, Ariel Lori, and I'm here to talk all things wellness. From how to achieve optimal health and well-being to the best beauty tips and everything in between, no topic is off limits. I know there is so much information out there, so I'm here to help you navigate it all and live your best life. Thanks for listening.

Let's get into it. Hi, everybody. Welcome to the show. I always say this, but I mean it. I have such a good episode for you today, an episode that I had so much fun recording. I had so many questions for my guest. I am talking to Dr. Jen Mann. She is a licensed psychotherapist. She's an author and host of VH1's couples therapy. We discuss all things relationships, including when to stay and when to leave a relationship. We talk about the number one reason why men and women cheat.

We also talk about daddy issues, and I ask her if I have daddy issues. We talk about the roles parents play in our adult relationships. And with relationships comes sex, of course. So we chat about what makes for good sex, misconceptions of men, and scheduled sex. So a little bit about Dr. Jen. Of course, I mentioned she is a psychotherapist. She is best known as the host and therapist for VH1's longstanding hit shows couples therapy with Dr. Jen and family therapy with Dr. Jen. She has appeared as a guest expert on hundreds of other shows, including The Today Show, the early show, Dr. Oz, Wendy Williams, The Doctors, The Mory Show, Steve Harvey, Access Hollywood, The Insider, and Jimmy Kimmel Live. She has a weekly column in InStyle magazine called Hump Day with Dr. Jen, where she gives sex and relationship advice. And Dr. Jen is the author of many bestselling advice books, including the relationship fix, Dr. Jen's Guide to Improving Communications, connection and intimacy, which we talk about today. Also super baby, 12 ways to give your child a head start in the first three years and the A to Z guide to raising happy, confident kids, which have collectively spent five weeks on the best seller list. So this is a fun,

super informative episode, whether you're in a relationship or single or somewhere in between. So I hope you guys enjoy. Okay, welcome, Dr. Mann. I'm so excited to talk to you. excited to be here. So before we get into everything, can you just give a little bit of your background to the audience and introduce them on who you are and what you do?

Okay. I am a licensed psychotherapist. Most people know me from the show VH1 Couples Therapy, which is gone for six seasons or the spinoff show, VH1 Family Therapy with Dr. Jen. I also have a weekly column

in InStyle magazine called Hump Day with Dr. Jen that's all about sex and relationships. A lot of people know me from my five-year show on Sirius XM called The Dr. Jen Show. And then there's some people who know me from my books. I've written a few parenting books. And the most recent book is a relationship book called The Relationship Fix, Dr. Jen's Sixth Step Guide to Improving Communication Connection and Interested. Amazing. And I want to talk all about that book. But to start off, I don't know

if this is just my perception from my friends, family, myself included, but it seems like relationships and dating now more than ever are kind of fucked up. I don't know if that's your experience, your professional experience. Look, I think that COVID has thrown a wrench in a lot of relationships. There were a lot of people who were quarantined

with partners, that there were cracks in the relationship and that was the thing that either put them over the edge where they then broke up or it highlighted such horrific differences and created even more stress in the relationship because usually when we have issues in our relationship, we can go out for a drive, we can go to our favorite restaurant, we can hang out with our girlfriends, you can go get our nails

done it. All of that was taken away in 2020. And as a result, there were a lot of couples who were in small places for way too much time and the tension built. And a lot of people said things they shouldn't have said, did things they shouldn't have done. And so there are a lot of couples who are dealing with the repercussions of that. And then there are also a lot of people who were dealing with dating during that, which was very complicated. The one positive trend that I have seen in dating since then has been that there's a lot more of just honesty very early on in a relationship. A lot of people feel like there's just not enough time. Life is too short. Too many people have lost loved ones. I've seen people get sick. So there's a sense of our mortality that has made people get a lot

more honest about what are you looking for in a relationship? Are you looking for a fun time? Are you looking for marriage? A serious relationship? What are your politics? Like, people are talking about things on a first date that they weren't talking about three years ago. I feel like that same perspective kind of applies to marriage, though, where people are like, you know what? Life is short. I'm out. Goodbye. Absolutely. I've seen a lot of that in the last two years, a lot. How do you think, like, online dating as a thing? As a thing, affecting just kind of modern dating in general now because I've been married for, I don't even three and a half years together for like six or seven. So it's been a while when I was dating

before I got married. I was, I had just dabbled a little bit in like Bumble. But it wasn't what it is now. Now I see some of my single friends and it's like seems like an absolute nightmare. So how have you seen that affecting dating? Well, I think it's good and bad. On one, one hand, it creates a sense of abundance that, okay, you know what, if things didn't work out with that person, great, swipe right and you have new opportunity. So there is a little bit of a kid in a candy store mentality of, wow, there's such an abundance of single people. On the other hand, that abundance of single people sometimes makes people say, well, you know what, they blinked the wrong way. So, you know what, I'm just going to swipe left and move on. One date where maybe

something came up that maybe 10 years ago people would have talked through and it would have been interesting conversation. But now people are a little more disposable because of that. So a lot of the time people kind of don't stick around quite as long because there's a sense of, well, there are more opportunities on my app. Do you think that people should go on dates with people if they're not attracted to them? No. Okay. There's a baseline attraction. I, I, I, I, don't think you have to feel like I need to rip this person's clothes off immediately. I think sometimes that can be a sign of kind of some toxic old stuff from your childhood. Like if you're too hot for someone too quick, then that's a red flag too. But you can't go out with someone that you feel

no attraction to. There's got to be kind of a baseline. Hmm, I can imagine myself kissing this person, like is kind of the bare minimum. It's interesting because I've seen different people. say different things. And I've seen some people say, no, you should absolutely give somebody a chance, which I didn't really understand. So that's why I was curious what your take was on that. But there are a couple things that I want to kind of dive into. One thing that you mentioned was that like maybe being too attracted to somebody as a red flag. How so? Well, you know, it's funny. I remember that season four of couples therapy, Sarah Abraham was on the show. And she was became single during the course the show. And one of the exercises that we did with her was we had her go online and go on a dating

app and pick some people and go on a date with them. And I'll never forget, the first person she picked was this, don't get me wrong, super hot guy, six-pack abs, no shirt on, selfie in the locker room, holding up the camera and flexing. And I can understand why she was hot for him. But he was clearly a narcissist who was looking for, you know, some quick action. And when we see someone who is posing like that or who replicate some other bad habits of hours from our dating history, it's saying, okay, what's going on?

This is a red flag. And don't get me wrong, look, I think people should be hot for the people they date, the people they marry, the people they are with. But I also think that I've seen all too many people, people who choose the looks and get seduced by the looks and don't go for the qualities under it and get themselves in a lot of trouble. Got it. Okay. But you can still have a connection with somebody and be super and that's not red flaggy. It's just if it's the thing that's initially

attracting you. Okay. No, I couldn't be hotter for my partner, Eric. Like, don't get me wrong. Like I could jump his body at any moment. But at the same time, you also want to really look at if you have a history of just going for looks and just your horning as sleet and your desire and your passion, then you may sometimes be not screening well enough. I see. So how do you maintain that passion for your partner? How long have you guys been together? Almost eight years. Okay. Give me spill. We need the secret here, especially during COVID. That's impressive. Yeah, you know, look, I have a whole chapter in my book all about sex. And, you know, I got to practice what I preach.

And it's very important that couples don't get complacent about their sex line. And that's the easiest problem to have that we tend to, especially once you have kids, we all have busy lives. If you've got a career nowadays, you're available on your phone for most people around the clock. There aren't a lot of boundaries that we have a lot of demands on us. So it's very easy to let things go. It's very easy to get complacent to turn on the TV instead of going to the bedroom and have some time together.

It's very easy to not tend to the relationship. And one of the things that's most important. And interestingly, there's a guy named M. Gary Newman who did a study about couples who cheat. And he looked at 500 men who cheated and 500 women who cheated. And what he found was that surprisingly, with 93% of the men and 92% of the men, percent of the women, the reason why they cheat, the number one reason was a combination of a lack of emotional connection and a lack of sexual connection. And what that speaks to is, most people say, oh, whoever cheats, they're just looking for sex. But really, the emotional connection is key.

Having that bond really is great for your sex life and it's also great for the connection and it's the best inoculation you can have against cheating. I've heard you talk about that on another interview, and I thought that was so interesting because I think that people just kind of assume like men cheat for sex and women cheat for the emotional thing. But I feel like the emotional thing precedes sex in most cases. It really does. And I always say there's always someone who, you know, it has perkier boobs or a bigger, lighter ass. But like, if you have put in the time and the energy into your relationship, you or your partner are far. less likely to cheat because you have a bond that can't be created in an instant and you and your partner will be far more likely to be protective of that bond. Another one of my favorite wellness habits that I incorporated into my routine starting last year that has made such a difference is adding electrolytes to my drinks throughout the day, which is actually something that my nutritionist recommended years ago. But when he recommended doing it, it was just with sea salt and I just could not

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I'm Giddy Maloney, and you probably know me from a little show called Banner Bumber Rolls. I've been labeled all kinds of things, a bitch, a bully, and a mean girl, but there is so much more to a person than what you see on TV.

Tune in every Friday as I talk to some of my friends and castmates, celebrities, comedians, medical professionals, and maybe some political figures. And by the time we're done, you're going to love me. If people are feeling like, you know, they're in a relationship, whether they're married or it's just, you know, they've been together for a certain amount of time. And they're not feeling that connection and they're trying and it's still not working. What are some signs that somebody should leave a relationship? Because I think, you know, like we talked about in the beginning, a lot of people have been evaluating that after. having so much time together and having, you know, probably a lot of areas of their relationship illuminated that they were able to distract themselves from before. In my book, The Relationship Fix, I talk about exactly this as well.

The lot of you sometimes think, oh, it's just about fixing the relationship, but sometimes it's about figuring out when to leave. And one of the things that I talk about is that if you are with someone who has an addiction and is unwilling to address it, if you're with someone who is abusive, you cannot stay. If you are with someone who has a mental illness and won't get help, and understand, and won't get help is the important part. Because you can be with someone who is an alcoholic and is working a great 12-step program. And I think those are some of the best people to be with because they are working through their shit. That's me.

But I love people who are on program because it's such a wonderful structure that requires people to be accountable and responsible, and I just absolutely love that. But if you have someone who's in the throes of addiction and his help is refusing to get well, then forget about it. You can't have a relationship because their primary relationship is with the substance that they have the addiction to. Yeah. Yeah, I've been sober for eight years. My husband has been sober for like 23 or 24 years. And I always wonder, I mean, not that we are not without problems, like, but I always wonder how normal people can function relationships when they're not regularly looking at their shit.

Yeah, no, they, well, and the truth is, most of them can't because what happens is it comes up and bites you in the ass. Because the more stuff you sweep under the rug, the more pressure exists in the relationship and eventually something explodes. Is there a time, though, if people are in a relationship and they feel like they're not sure,

like whether they should stay or leave? What are some signs to stay, if there are any. Well, first of all, I think that in order to leave a relationship, especially a long-term relationship, and even more so if there are children involved, you need to know that you have done everything humanly possible to try to save that relationship. And again, the caveat is if it's a situation where there's abuse and your safety is in jeopardy, that's a whole other category.

But regular conflicts that couples have where there is not a safety issue, you want to make sure that you've done therapy. You want to make sure that you've tried couples therapy, that you've done some self-examination, that you've been willing to look at what is your part in the problem? Because it's very easy to look at the other person to point fingers and say, well, you did this and you're the villain and I'm the hero and I'm the victim. But one of the things we learn in psychology school is that with couples, typically, there's a 50-50 dance that we do where we trigger each other or we push each other or we hurt each other and we react to each other. And we have to look at our part in it. And I remember when I first started touring with my book, when the first questions I got from someone was, will this book help my relationship if my partner doesn't read it?

And my answer to that is yes, because we are in a system. We are wound and bound together. And anytime you do something in your relationship and you change the way you communicate, you change the way you react, you change the way you speak, it has a ripple effect. And it affects your partner. And sometimes we can be so inspiring in our relationship that we inspire our partner to do better as well. Do you feel like there's truth to like you should give what you want to receive in a relationship? I think that a lot of the time people give what they want to receive

and they miss the mark because we want to give. We shouldn't be giving what we want to receive. We should be giving what our partner wants to receive. Interesting. To me may not be meaningful to Eric when it comes to love. You know, a lot of people talk about love languages and kind of knowing your love language. But I think the bottom line is really knowing what is meaningful to your partners so that what you give lands and is effective. Because sometimes you say, well, I took out the trash. Well, I swept the floor. Well, I made the bed. Well, I ran this errand and I had your dinner ready. And if that's meaningless to that other person, then you're barking up the wrong tree and you've wasted energy. And now you're resentful. Whereas if that person, what's meaningful to them is like, well,

you didn't come in the door and give me a hug and say hello and ask me about my day. Well, then you've, you've waste in energy, you're resentful, they're not fulfilled, and you have a problem in your relationship. I'm laughing because that's me. Like my way of showing people, like my love or affection is I love to cook for them and like make a meal. And I get so much joy out of like serving someone. And I do that for my husband. And then he's like unhappy. And I'm like, hello, excuse me. And he could not care less about that. What is it that he loves? What makes him feel loved and connected with you and tended to? He wants me to be interested in him. Like not like, I mean, curious, interested in his day, interested in his work. He wants to be adored. Like I feel like it's so funny, like back to the

sex thing. We think that men just want like sex and like, and that's part of it. But I feel like they also just want, at least in my experience, they also just want to be a little bit like adored and like a little revered. A hundred percent. And I think that you are right on the money that we have a lot of misconceptions about men and sex. And especially men in long-term relationships, I'm always amazed at the men who come into my therapy practice that they consistently, they want connection. Like you're saying, they want to be adored.

They want to be cared about more than anything. Yeah, that's so interesting. Something that you mentioned earlier about, I can't remember exactly how you phrased it, but like that a lot of our relationships and how we act in relationships and who we choose goes back to our childhoods. And this is something I really want to get into with you. I married somebody twice my age, so I'm always wondering if I have a daddy issue. I should call them all about daddy issues.

All right, let's talk about it. And look, you may very well. I mean, what is your relationship with your dad? My relationship with my dad is great. You know, I have explored this, and I've talked about this on the podcast before. Like, when I started dating my husband, I was in therapy at the time.

And I was like, what is this? Like, what's playing out? I think now I have a better perspective on it than I did back then. And now I don't think that it was so much like a thing with my dad. I think that I was just kind of like fulfilling unmet needs from my childhood, kind of through my relationship. With my dad and my mom, though. What were the unmet needs?

You don't mind me. I think that it was just kind of like emotional security, like different needs for security. And yeah, and like I said, like both with my mom and with my dad, like stability and security. Even though I had a great childhood, I didn't have any trauma. And there were no like very apparent issues. But for whatever reason, I felt these things. But one of the things that I talked about in my book in chapter four in my book is, is all about childhood trauma.

And I start out the chapter by saying that most of the time people think if I wasn't abused, molested, neglected, that I had no trauma. But sometimes the trauma is a small T instead of a capital T. So that maybe we had a parent who did not understand us. Maybe we had a parent who was so busy working and they had to work that they weren't emotionally present for us. Sometimes we have a parent who was a workaholic or compulsive with food or some other addiction that is less obvious to most people that kept kind of a distance between us and prevented them from meeting our emotional needs. And sometimes we just had a parent who wasn't able to

reflect back to us what we were feeling, where we were at, or maybe our emotions weren't okay in the household. So a lot of the time, where that kind of experience, where that rupture is in our history is much more subtle and it takes a little more exploring to figure it out in order for us to heal from it. What are some of those ways or what would some of those relationships look like played out in adulthood? Here's an example. Let's say you have a parent who just didn't get you, that they didn't understand you. And, you know, understand that parents, our first mirrors back to ourselves. So we look to our parent to know if we are lovable,

if we are wonderful, and when a parent isn't able to mirror back to us early on it, especially those first three years are particularly critical, but really throughout our entire childhood, when a parent is like, what's wrong with you? Why do you like that? Or, you know, no, you shouldn't, you shouldn't do the debate team. You should be playing soccer or whatever it is that we repeatedly get the message that's subtle of your choices aren't okay. You're not okay. What you want is not okay. What happens is we internalize that. And on some level, we think, oh, I must not be lovable. I must not be okay. Then we tend to pick someone who has similar issues that maybe they don't accept us the way we are in some significant way that maybe they're constantly trying to change us.

Maybe they, you pick someone who is in fashion and is always telling you that they hate what you're wearing. It could be something as subtle as that. But what happens is the unconscious mind doesn't know the difference between past, present, and future. And it's always trying to heal the old wounds in current time. So we tend to pick a partner who will injure us in the same way that our parents injured us because that little girl inside of us goes, well, if I can make this person accept me. If I can make them love me, then that means mom or dad were wrong. And I really am lovable and I'm okay. And we're trying to heal that old wound.

But what happens is we pick that person who doesn't accept these things about us and then we get triggered and we get wounded. And typically, it doesn't work out well because we're not able to change them in order for them to accept us. And then we end up getting re-triggered instead. So counterintuitive because you would think that we would look for somebody who would heal whatever that wound was instead of looking for somebody who's going to re-injure it so that then we can prove something to our younger itself. I mean, it's like so convoluted. But it's so typical.

And, you know, there are also typically traits that are positive from our parents that we pick in that person because our unconscious is kind of always looking for that familiar. You know, it's always in the old, the bionic man or the bionic woman, when they were scanning the room and you hear the computer going do no, no, no, no. Like our unconscious does that, looking for similarity, something that feels familiar and safe. I mean, people might find this creepy, but there are so many times over the course of my relationship where I've been like, oh my God, I married my dad or like, oh my God, I married my mom, like just with the little kind of nuanced things where I'm like, oh, yeah, no, it's so true. I mean, Eric and I laugh about it all the time. He's such a combination of my mom and my dad

in so many ways. And we do tend to, like, in my book, I talk about what they call them Magotherapy. That's kind of this basis that we do tend to pick people like our parents. And if you make a list of all of your mom's good and bad traits, all of your dad's good and bad traits, and then you make a list of your partners good or bad traits, you're going to see an enormous overlap. And it always surprises people when they actually do that exercise. You probably know by now that I have a few non-negotiables in my life routine, especially my morning routine. I tend to be super consistent with that. And it just sets me up for a really good day. And one of those non-negotiables is getting my green drink in with athletic greens. I've been doing this daily since last year.

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What are some ways that people can work on themselves and try to heal some of these wounds so that they can either be a better partner in their relationship that they're currently in or so that they can, you know, for lack of a better term, have a better picker when they're choosing somebody to be in a relationship with. I recommend that everybody do one year of weekly therapy. That even if you have trauma, that I think that that is a really important baseline to have in order to self-reflect, in order to develop tools, in order to have someone who will call you out on your shit.

Because a lot of the time we, oh, well, I have great friends. They call me out. But they've got skin in the game. They've got their own agenda. Oh, you know, I don't want you to date him because when you date him, you know, I am not going to have as much time with you. And sometimes it's unconscious. Sometimes it's not even conscious. Or like, oh, I don't want you to change because if you do, then you're not going to want to go drinking with me or whatever it is. So I really recommend therapy. And sometimes people say,

well, I can't afford therapy. But what most people don't realize is that in order for a therapist to become licensed, they have to do 3,000 hours under supervision, which they can't get paid for. So there are mental health clinics all around this country. And now also you can do teletherapy that allow you to do therapy based on your ability to pay. And not only do you get your therapist, but you get the eyeballs of their supervisor who has at least two years of experience. So that's really the number one way. I also really recommend I'm a big fan of bibliotherapy. It's part of the reason why I write books because not everyone can come into my office. And I tried to write a book with the relationship fix that would be like a year of intensive therapy with me

where people are forced to self-examine and to really look at a lot of the questions I would be asking them in my office. And also now you have a lot of access to great information, masterclass, YouTube, people's Instagram, you know, TikTok, all that sort of stuff that is important to kind of help us to look at issues that are important to us, but I do think that therapy is still number one. Do you think that most, if not all, couples could benefit from couples therapy or do you think it's just kind of a case-by-case basis? Absolutely. I recommend that most couples or actually all couples have at least six months of weekly

therapy at some point in the relationship. Just to have, it's kind of like going to the doctor and like getting a checkup, to have someone who's able to say like, hey, you know what? I'm noticing these patterns. And before they get too significant or harmful in the relationship, I want to bring this to your attention. Or here are some tools that I don't think you guys have right now. that I think would be really helpful for you.

And that can make a really big difference in the outcome of a relationship. Okay, so we've gone over a couple of the tools from your book, Relationship Fix. Let's go over a few of the other ones just to give, like, the listeners, a basic breakdown. Okay. You know, one other thing, when you ask a question about sex, like what is a good tool for couples? I created something that's called the sexual inventory. And I created this for couples. I recommend the couples do this once a year.

It's in the back of my book, the relationship fix. And what it is is a very brave questionnaire for couples to do together. And it's pretty long. And you take turns where one person asks the other one, all the questions, and then it's reverse. And what I did was I started it off very approachable. Like what kind of makeup do you like on me? What kind of clothes do you like on me? How do you like my hair to other questions?

that are much more sex-specific. Because also, you want to know what turns your partner on. And sometimes we have ideas of what we'll turn our partner on. And it turns out we're completely wrong. We projected them. And then I get into specific sexual acts.

Do you like this. Do not like this. Is there anything you would change? Then I get into kind of the more scary stuff of like, what is something that you have never told your partner that interests you, that you like to talk about or do in that? bed to like even more like some kinky stuff like hey would you like to try this would you like to try

that so a lot of the time couples find it really valuable because it's scarier to ask the question yourself and be like hey would you like to do this but if you're going through a questionnaire well hey that crazy bitch therapist made me ask the question like she's pretty kinky and you're falling on the sword exactly but it does it makes it easy for couples to talk about this stuff because they don't have to be responsible for asking the question. I'm essentially asking the question for them. I love that. Question about sex. I did an episode with Shan Boudram back in December. I don't know if you're familiar with her, but it's all about sex. And I'm curious what your take on this is. But if people are newly in a

relationship and the sex is like terrible, do you think they should still pursue that relationship? I think that they should first try to fix the sex because a lot of the time sex is terrible because people aren't communicating well. And even people who think they're good sexual communicators are oftentimes not. But the things I've learned being a therapist for almost three decades that sometimes people say, well, yeah, you know, I say more to the right, more to the left, or I like this or I like that. But a lot of the time people don't give all the information. or sometimes they fake it and then they expect the person to still know how to get them off when they it. So the other person is operating under false information and you never, you can't help your partner sexually. You can't be a good lover if you don't really know what is getting your partner off. So I think you first have to really examine where are things going wrong. What have we done to try to fix it? what am I scared to talk about that I haven't talked about and I probably need to.

And then back to the inventory, if say that a couple does this and they're completely not aligned on things, then where do they end up? The inventory is so vast and covers so many categories that I've never encountered a couple that didn't find anything where they were both interested. You know, like, there are always times where someone's like, hey, I want to do a threesome. The other person's like, no fucking way. Or like, hey, you know, I like you to tie me up. And the person's like, well, I don't know.

But, you know, there's a lot of kind of negotiation that can be done. And even the couple that one person says, I want to do a three way and the other says, fuck no. That couple, you know what? You can use it in fantasy. You can watch about it. You can use it in different ways. but once you know what their fantasy is, you can use it in bed in other ways.

There's probably no like universal answer for this or maybe there is. I don't know, but how much sex is considered quote unquote healthy or quote unquote normal in a relationship? You know, there have been a lot of studies done on it and some of the studies, the numbers have always surprised me. I think this last study that I had read about it said something. It was like the average couple that's happy their sex life has sex like 1.3 times or something a week a week. But besides the fact that it seemed a little low to me, but I think that the couple who does not have a high libido and has five kids who are under the age of 10, they're probably not going to do that.

The newlywed couple is probably going to exceed that. the like I think that it really what matters is that both couples are satisfied and typically no couple I I don't think I can think of in 30 years one couple that I've ever worked with where a hundred percent of the time they both have the same libido want sex at the same time of day in the same mom like that just doesn't happen so sex is a bit of a negotiation and most people don't like to think of it that way because it's supposed to come naturally. It's supposed to be easy. It's supposed to not be something you have to talk about. If you want to have a good sex, you have to talk about it. And you also have to compromise and you have to find a way to do it without

resentment. I know people who have been in long-term relationships who are like, we schedule sex. Like it's not sexy, but like we do it. And then we're still having that time to connect. What do you think about that? I love couple scheduling sex. And I don't understand why couples think it's not sexy because you bet your ass when you were first dating, you were scheduling sex. You say, okay, we're going on a date at 8 o'clock on Saturday. I'm getting a bikini wax. I'm getting my nails done. I am prepared for sex. So why wouldn't you do that in your marriage or your long-term relationship? It's no different. And if you don't schedule it, you're probably not going to have time for it. And you're probably going to instead, of going into the bedroom, we're going to turn on the TV. That's so funny. I never thought about it that way.

I'm kind of all over the place here, but since we're on the topic of sex, I'm thinking about a thing that I saw on your Instagram, which said something along the lines of being in a relationship with someone that you should have fucked once. But I feel like there are probably a lot of people listening who are like, ooh, I can relate to that. So can you tell us what that's all about? Look, I think that there are a lot of people who had great sex and got seduced by the great sex. And kind of like we were talking about earlier, that they were so hot to the person that they didn't screen well for the emotional components that they need in the relationship. And that sometimes we're so overtaken by our lust by the oxytocin that gets released when we have sex that makes us bond by the serotonin that our brain's released that make us help.

that make us happy, that we start to think that this person that we've had great sex with is a great life partner when, in fact, they were great in bed, not necessarily a great partner. Got it. Okay. Okay. So what are a couple of the other tools? Well, you know, one of my favorite tools for couples that I think is really one of the most valuable tools is timeout. And most people think of timeout for kids. I actually hate them for kids. I do not like timeouts for kids. but that's a whole other parenting issue. But I love them for adults. Because what typically happens in a relationship,

especially a relationship where you have people who have been in it for a while, their guards are down. Sometimes we get a little sloppy where we sometimes are unaware of our triggers is that we tend to trigger each other. And like we talked about earlier, we also tend to pick people who have a lot of the same traits as our parents. So they tend to injure us in the same way that our parents injured us. which means that we are not just responding to them,

but we're responding to a history of pain. And so what I like couples to do is to think about their anger on a scale from zero to 10. Zero being like nothing, I'm fine, I'm peaceful, all is good, 10 being you're like in a violent, crazed state. And to think about what is your point of no return? What is your point where you say things you shouldn't say, where you lose control, where you do things,

that you shouldn't do, where you regret things that come out of your mouth. So let's say your point of no return is an eight. What you want to do is when you hit a six, you want to take a timeout. And what you want to do as a couple is in advance to say, hey, we're going to try this tool. Let's practice doing a timeout. If we get too upset or too angry or too volatile, let's plan to take a timeout. One of the key things, we'll few key things with a timeout is one is that it's not just something to shut down the conversation. You have to then say when you're going to speak about it again, because otherwise it just feels like the person's being abandoned. So you and I are fighting and I say, hey, I need a timeout. I'm too upset. I can tell I'm too emotional for us to have a

productive conversation. Let's meet back in the kitchen in two hours. I think that I need about two hours to calm down. And then you meet back in the kitchen. And if I'm not calm down, then I can say, you know what, I think I need to sleep on it. Let's talk in the morning. But having that end date is really important. That's crucial. I'm sure that you practice what you preach. I mean, I'm sure that so much of this comes from experience. So if you're willing to share, like, what are the, whether this was in the book or not, but what have you learned from both your practice and dealing with so many people and also in your own relationship, which sounds like it's a fulfilling, successful relationship at this time, what have been the most impactful things that

you've done or seen? Well, I'll give you one little tip that has to do with timeouts. I look for personally because Eric and I use timeouts. We use them a lot. We are both very intense, very passionate people who have very strong opinions. And when, things get heated, we use timeouts. We now have been using them for about eight years. But in the beginning, one of us will call a timeout. And the key is, when you call a timeout, both of you need to stop talking about the issue and like go to your separate corners. But I found myself, well, wait, one more thing. You can't do the one more thing. Or, okay, you go and see the other timeout and then start texting. The person will be like, but this other thing can't do that. Like a timeout has to be

clean, no texting, no emails, no phone calls, no carrier pigeons, like nothing. Like you've got to really let it breathe. Otherwise, it's not going to be effective. You know, I talk in the book about a lot of different experiences with Eric. He owes Joseph me about how he's, he's like my white tiger that, like, I give all these examples of him. He's a very, very brave, secure man. God bless him to be. He's, with a relationship therapist. You know, one of the things, when we were dating in the first year, it's kind of the end of the first year, he had this incredible car. He had this beautiful California Ferrari that he used to drive around in and I had all these amazing memories in it. And we were going on a trip and he parked the car in front of my house. And at the time,

I was on a very busy street. And I said, oh, you know, we should probably put it in the garage because there are constantly people, like having car accidents on this street. And so I went to open the garage and the garage was sticking and it wasn't working and I couldn't get it open. So I was like, you know what? Well, we're going to have someone fix it and move your car in. I forgot.

We are on our trip. I get a call from my neighbor who says, I have some really bad news. Eric's car is totaled. Someone smashed into his parked car. In front of your house, there are pieces of the car like all over the street. And she sends me a picture. It's like, oh my God. Like, I found this amazing, wonderful man and I love him and he loves me. And now I, like, I'm the most responsible person. Like, I never, like, I have to do lists. Like, to do lists are like in my, blood. They're my favorite thing. And somehow this slipped off of my to-do list. And I'm, I thought, like, he's going to think I'm really irresponsible. He, like, this is going to cost me the relationship. He handled it so beautifully. It was shocking to me. That he was like, you know what? It's just a car. I've got insurance. I know you meant to do it. You're like, this is not like you to not take care of it.

And he was so forgiving that to me it was really, it was a masterclass in forgiveness. Yeah, I've heard you talk about forgiveness. When do you think, I mean, is there a time, I'm sure there is, is there a time in a relationship where you kind of just have to like choose forgiveness instead of,

it just, I keep thinking of this thing in recovery actually that I hear a lot, which is like, do you want to be right or do you want to be happy? Yeah. Like, is there both? Or what do you think about that?

When it comes to forgiveness, I always look for four things. Because typically what happens is we are in a culture that is very forgiveness oriented. I think there's a lot of pressure to forgive. That it is kind of its forgiveness is beautiful and don't hold on to it. But I think that forgiveness must be earned. I think it's healthy to let go of anger, but I don't think that you always have to forgive in the traditional sense of forgiveness. In order for something to be forgiven, I always look for these four things. One, the first is remorse.

I call it the four R's. And remorse is when someone is able to give you a truly heartfelt apology that shows that they regret what they did, that they feel bad about it. The second is responsibility, that they are willing to take responsibility for their actions. Because if someone doesn't do that, then nothing's going to change. You don't get that kind of repair without that. And it is, it's crucial for the forgiveness. The other thing that I look for is recognition. And that is the recognition that I understand why this body is,

bothers you so much. The willingness, and this is a tough one, because people get very self-righteous about this, the willingness to actually sit through the other person saying why this bothered me, how this hurt me. It typically, a lot of the time people time out on this. Like, and I don't mean good time out like I was talking about, but in the bad timeout of like, you know what, I've listened to you, talk about that affair that I've had for a year now and I'm done. If you're still listening, then it means that it hasn't landed in the way your partner needs to hear it for them to heal. Important you keep listening and you may need the help of the therapist to help you figure out what your partner needs in order to let go and forgive.

And then the fourth is remedy. This is key. This is so important. And remedy is actually creating a plan of action to make sure it doesn't happen again. And I hear this all the time with my radio. I would get people who would call in and say, and, you know, it's such a typical example. Well, my partner cheated on me and he came back to me and was crying and said he was sorry, so I forgave him. And I think he's cheating again. Like, I don't understand. Like,

why is this happening? And I always say, well, when that happened, what was the plan to make sure that it didn't happen again? What was he going to do to give him insight? to address the underlying issues and also to make you feel safe in the relationship. And typically he answered, well, nothing. He cried. He apologized. So I thought we were okay. I thought he really meant it. He can really mean it. But if he hasn't addressed the underlying issue, well, then nothing's going to change. Well, I could keep going for so many questions. But to close, I always like to ask my guess, what is one thing we should or could? I know some people don't like the word should. Stop doing today in our relationships or in our lives, whatever,

and one thing to start doing. I think what we should stop doing is have our nose in our phones all the time. We need more eye contact in our relationships. And I always recommend that couples have at least 20 to 30 minutes a day, a face-to-face eye contact where they're not looking at their phones, where they're not looking at their screens, where they're actually spending time together. So that would be what we don't do. And I guess it's also what you do do. 30 minutes of face-to-face time is really important. I love that. Well, this is amazing.

Where can everybody find more information on you and find your book and all of that? You can find me on my website at Dr.Gen.com, spell dot, d-o-c-t-o-r-j-E-N-N dot com, or on all social media, especially Instagram, at Dr. Jen-Man, 2-E-on-N-on-N-N-N-on. We'll link everything so that it's easy in show notes. And thank you so much for coming on. My pleasure. Thanks for having me. This is so much fun. Thank you. I hope you enjoyed that episode. If you liked it, and if you like the show in general,

please take a second to rate, review, and subscribe. It goes a long way, and it's actually the best way to support the show. Also, if you want to see more about each episode, you can head over to The Blonde Files podcast on Instagram. I'm always posting about each episode there or over on my personal page at Ariel Lori.