Well with Arielle Lorre - 159: Eating Disorders, Addiction & Recovery with Remy Park

Episode Date: March 2, 2022

I'm talking to Remy Park (@veggiekins), a Vegan recipe developer, food photographer and blogger. We discuss her road to recovery, both from drugs/alcohol and an eating disorder, and her thoughts on self-harm and anxiety. We also chat about all things Veganism; how it helped her during recovery, "Angry vegans" and judgment, and how she found health through it.   www.Arrae.com with code 'blondefiles' at checkout for 10% off one time purchases or 25% off first month of subscription. www.Athleticgreens.com/blondefiles for a free 1 year supply of vitamin D and 5 free travel packs with your first purchase. www.DrinkLMNT.com/BLONDEFILES for your free sample pack, just pay $5 shipping.   Produced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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rise-adviseur or sunnycars. The following podcast is a dear media production. Hey, welcome. Welcome to the Blonde Files podcast. I'm your host, Ariel Lori, and I'm here to talk all things wellness. From how to achieve optimal health and well-being to the best beauty tips and everything in between, no topic is off limits. I know there is so much information out there, so I'm here to help

you navigate it all and live your best life. Thanks for listening. Let's get into it. Hi, everybody. Welcome to the show. I have to say, I really loved recording this next episode because My guest, Remy and I, I feel like we just kind of matched energetically, like not in a woo-woo way, but I am very much an introvert, not meaning that I am shy, but meaning like I like to be alone. I get my energy from being alone. And I often get drained by being overly social, especially if I'm around like very kind of loud, exuberant people. And I think Remy is kind of the same way. Like we were both very chill. So we just had a really kind of enjoyable, easy. conversation. It just really flowed. And even though we have totally different backgrounds and lives, I could relate to her and so much. And I think a lot of you guys will too. So I'm talking to Remy Morimoto Park. She is a vegan recipe developer, food photographer, blogger, health and wellness writer. She has a great YouTube and TikTok. Her platform is VeggieKins. I'm sure a lot of you guys are familiar with her. And we talk about a lot, including her road to recovery. She's been

sober almost the same time that I have been. Somewhere around eight years, she said, both from drugs and alcohol and from an eating disorder. And we also talk about kind of self-harm and anxiety and OCD and how she got over all of that and found balance and happiness. And even though we discussed some heavy topics, it was a pretty light conversation. I think. a lot of people will benefit from this, whether you've struggled with this or not. And I hope you enjoy. All right. Welcome. Remy. I'm so excited to have you here and talk to you. Thank you for having me. I was wondering when we're going to cross paths, whether that would be New York or L.A. I know. It feels like it's been kind of a long time coming. Definitely thought that we would like maybe cross paths getting a

matcha somewhere at some point. But yeah, I'm so excited to talk to you. We were talking off Mike a little bit about just some topics that I wanted to cover with you because I've heard you share your story in other interviews. And obviously, I've just been following you for a long time. And I feel like we have a lot of parallels, even though like our circumstances are different. And people are just really, I think, struggling and coming to terms with like mental health and habits and drinking and all of that. So I really want to dive into your whole story and your experience with that. So I know that you have a little bit of like an unconventional upbringing. And I know that that plays into a lot of your story. So maybe we can just rewind and you can tell people where you started. Yeah. So kind of a weird question when someone asks where you're from, there's like the short answer and the long answer. But I do really feel like it's a big part of how everything went down. So originally my family is from New York. And my mom side of the family grew up in Queens. So my grandpa was the first to immigrate to the U.S. And, um, I lived in the U.S. until I was about seven. So that was when we made our first move. And then we moved

overseas to Taiwan. And it kind of became like a thing that we would do, basically expat living for my dad's job. So we lived in Taiwan. We spent a lot of time in Thailand. Ultimately, we ended up moving to Shanghai, where they are right now. A little bit like, I guess, military family, except for the job was just conventional job. And I think that played a huge role because it kind of forced me to grow up a lot sooner than I feel like I would have had I just stayed in the U.S. So I always joke that I'm like 40 on the inside, but I really feel like that's true half the time. So I know we'll talk about sobriety, but, you know, that's obviously one of the reasons that I felt a little bit age compared to other people my age. And that definitely happened because of, I guess, my upbringing.

I'm curious if you feel at all, because you got sober before you were even 21, right? Like, you were very young. So for me, I feel like I got sober like later in my 20s, but for the 10 or so years that I was using, I was kind of like stunted in life, I guess. So I feel like I'm kind of living out my 20s now in my 30s. I don't know if you feel that way at all. Like in some ways I feel like I've had such a life, so I do feel older than I am. And then in some ways, I feel like I'm younger, if that makes sense. I don't know. I think I've always felt kind of inherently older than people around me. Like I remember when I was in even middle school, I would have older friends and that's sort of how I was introduced to, you know, all the drugs, all the alcohol.

And even now I feel sometimes like I want to settle down and I'm a lot older, maybe mentally, than people that I hang out with. But at the same time, I guess I do feel like there's that inner child sometimes because I'm like this grandma, but at the same time, like, you know, I love Disney movies and like, it's weird. I'm selectively like old and young, I guess. Right. Yeah. So when you were younger, how were you introduced, you can share as much of as little as you want, but how were you kind of introduced to drugs and alcohol and how did that play into your life then? So the first time, basically, I went to a club with older friends and it's kind of weird because in Shanghai, where I lived at the time, it's sort of culturally normal,

at least in sort of the expat bubble. So it's basically a bunch of people, foreigners, living in China. We all went to an American school. And what we would do for fun was like, we would go to clubs. It would be like, when? days, ladies' night, and then you'd show up to school the next day and take, like, your trigonometry class. It was bizarre now thinking about it, but at the time, it was super normal. And for the most part, parents were usually on board with it, too. Like, my parents, it took a little while, but I think after just living in the environment for a while, you kind of just accept that, like, if your friend wants to hang out, like, that's where you're going

to hang out. I think it was a combination of, like, not having too much to do. And also the fact that it was so easy to get access to drugs and alcohol. Like, there is a lot of, you a drinking age, but I'd never been carded once. So I didn't have a fake until I was in college back in the U.S. I think the first time I went out, I might have been 14, 15, maybe 13. And really, it was just like an introduction all in one night, like drugs, alcohol, everything. And I didn't know my limits. I didn't know my boundaries. Tried alcohol. And then I got a crazy, just like, dizzy feeling and was told like, here, take this, you'll feel better. And I was like, why not? We're already here. So it was kind of a downward slope from there. I feel like,

a lot of it was just experimental in the beginning and then socializing. But I feel like it became a problem when it wasn't social anymore. It was more of like a coping mechanism. I would do it alone more to like forget. And that's what I would really live for and like look forward to. So that's kind of how it started. And it wasn't until college when I came back to the U.S. where friends of mine were like, oh, I'm so excited to start going to parties that I realized, wow, this is really abnormal. And that I think is what motivated me a little bit to kind of, you know, reassess. If you don't mind sharing, what were you using it as a coping mechanism for?

Like you said, using to forget. But I can just imagine, because again, we were talking about this earlier, like so many people have reached out to me, especially in the last year or two, because they're sober curious or they're reevaluating their relationship with alcohol and they feel like maybe it's habitual, like not in a healthy way or they're using it as a coping mechanism. So can you remember? obviously we get this perspective in hindsight. Like when I was doing it myself, I thought I was just socializing and it really helped me to like kind of get out of myself in that way.

And it actually helped me ironically to like be present when without it. I'm normally like spiraling and anxiety and stuff. I was. So what was it for you in hindsight that now you see was like that it was helping? I think I can relate to a little bit of what you're saying because naturally I'm a very anxious. neurotic person, like very much in my head. I have OCD. So it's really just like noise up there. I think for me it was just like a nasty combination of dealing with like an eating disorder at the time and a lot of anxiety. And it was just another form of self-harm. Like I think about my eating

disorder and I realize it was really just a means of harming myself and like needing that control. And then it turned into self-harm. And then it was drugs and alcohol, which in a way kind of provided this oasis for a little bit. It's like no thoughts, like lights on no one's home. That's exactly how it felt. So I think at a certain point, I was so depressed that it felt better than being present in my real life, you know? Yeah. No, it's so interesting. I'm just thinking about like how much I can relate to that. And I think it's funny because people think like, you drink or you used to check out and to some degree that's true. But I think it's also like when you do have that kind of brain where you do tend to be a little more neurotic, more anxious,

like thinking about what you're thinking about me all the time and like what you're going to, like this constant noise, it really helps to just kind of like bring you back into the now in a way. Yeah, that's definitely true. I mean, for the same reasons, meditation has never worked for me. I almost like don't want things to be quiet because I don't want to hear what's going on. So I think that's definitely true in a really weird way. Obviously, I'm glad I have better coping mechanisms now, a lot healthier and minus the hangover. So that's always great. Since we're talking about eating disorders and recovery in this episode, I think there's a conversation to be had around bloating.

So I know in the past I've experienced this. I've had guests on who have talked about this and I've heard from you guys who have experienced this. And what this is is kind of a body dysmorphia. as a result of bloating and a lot of people feel like they have to go ahead and eliminate tons of different foods. They feel like they have to restrict their diets and it can be a pathway into disordered eating when you experience bloating. So obviously it's really important to get to the root cause of whatever is going on and work on that relationship with food and all of that. But there are things that can help. And one thing that really helps me is Array bloat capsules. Array was created to

help women feel their best so that they can be their best through targeted products, which are 100% natural filler-free organic and formulated by a naturopathic doctor. The bloat capsules themselves are amazing. They can be taken at any time, whether you have had a big meal or something heavy or something that you don't normally eat. It optimizes digestion with the use of five herbs and a fruit-based digestive enzyme. It's completely laxative-free and it is effective. And bloat capsules were actually designed to give people food freedom so that you can go out and enjoy the food that you love without any discomfort or bloating after. So I personally take array with me everywhere. You've probably seen. I've traveled with them all over. I find that especially in those kind of situations,

if I'm away from home, I'm not cooking, I'm eating out a lot. I'm probably eating foods that I don't normally eat on a regular basis. They are super helpful. I've also gone through periods where I've just taken a couple before I go to bed as kind of maintenance because I do find that they are so soothing. So how you use them really is up to you. And if you want to try array, you guys can go to array.com and use the code blonde files at checkout for 10% off a one-time purchase or 25% off the first month on subscription. So that's array.com A-R-R-A-E and the code is blonde files at checkout for 10% off a one-time purchase or 25% off the first month of a subscription. Hi, I'm Kara Natterson, and I'm Vanessa Kroll Bennett. We're the co-hosts of the Puberty podcast.

Each week, we dive into the what and how of raising kids through puberty, that roller coaster of physical and emotional shifts for kids and parents alike. Combining reliable science and relatable parenting strategies, we will all learn about, laugh, about and yes, maybe even cry about adolescents, ours and theirs. So did the eating disorder, not to like stay in the problem, but I want to get like all the context, did the eating disorder kind of happen around the same time as the addiction or did it come after? That started first. It actually started when I was about seven years old, which is really young, but I think again it was the means of controlling something in my life because that was the age at which my family made our first

move. So I think for me it was just something easy that I could grasp and really control when everything else seemed so in flux. And I think it definitely contributed because my tolerance, obviously, for drinking or any substance, like it would just go right through me with no food in my body. So it's just funny to think about it sometimes because I definitely had a drinking problem, but the quantity that I was drinking wasn't even that much. Like it really didn't take much for me. It was more just the relationship that I had with it. That was the problem. So I guess it did start before. It definitely didn't help, but it was around the same time that I decided, like, I really want to get over this relationship with food that it kind of like in tandem ended up

becoming alcoholism recovery at the same time. So it's hard for me to separate the two sometimes. I just, I think of all of it as like, those were times. Like, I'm glad I'm here now, but. Yeah. Right. Like, they were, they were both symptoms of the same. Yeah. Kind of issue maybe. Yeah. But the thing that you said about, like, not drinking very much, but it was. your relationship. I think that's such an important point for people to hear because there is still this misconception that like it's more of a quantity thing. Yeah. Sometimes than like what you're actually using it for. So for me like I was the opposite. I was drinking copious amounts of alcohol. And, you know, I had a really, really, really bad bottom. And like, but that isn't the part that made it a problem for me.

the problem was what it was doing for me. And I think sometimes people like maybe compare themselves to somebody else and they're like, well, I'm not drinking that much or, you know, I'm not having seizures or whatever. And that's not really the part that, you know, makes you, I'm not calling you an alcoholic, just myself. Like, that's not what makes me an alcoholic. It's like what I was covering up with it. Yeah, that's definitely true. I think it also just depends on like your tolerance, your size as a person. it can be so misleading and I'm actually grateful for my very low tolerance because I don't think that I would have addressed the problem earlier had I not realized. I was able to still function, but the amount that I was drinking and would consider myself an alcoholic versus maybe like

what my mom could handle or just like, you know, people that I went to college with, it was completely different. But I think at the end of the day, like it's intention and then also knowing, yeah, what that relationship is like what you're seeking out from it. Is it really the flavor and like a nice wine with your immune? or is it, you know, to feel or to not to feel? Yeah. Yeah, I can't relate to people that drink, like, or don't like things for the flavor or drink because they like, I was like, just, I want it what it does to me.

Yeah. That's all I really care about. So you came here for college and you said that you started having a healthier relationship with food and that kind of helped you with the drinking as well. What were some steps that you took towards healing and changing the trajectory of your life when it came to your wellness? So initially, I actually went vegan, and I think that that was almost like a forced detox

because my base level was just a lot healthier, so I was feeling it a lot more when I would drink or use anything. So that was definitely like a rude awakening because I could feel everything so much more. And it's just harder to kind of keep up with my ways, I think. And then in working through eating disorder recovery, I mean, it's kind of like you show up to therapy looking for help with one thing,

and then unfortunately you have to do the whole timeline and go through your life. And so inevitably, we ended up talking about other things as well. And I think it was just this aha moment of everything happening at once where I was like, I'm in a new environment where it's not the norm to get, you know, completely shit-faced every single day where there are things that you can do beyond just go out. And now I was vegan. I was focusing on like health and wellness.

And I just figured if I was going to do it at any point, now would be the time where life is a little bit more important now. Like in high school, you know, I went back to my parents' house every night. night, I had like my bases covered all the time. I didn't have to worry about really much. But once I was in college, I felt like, okay, this is the time for me to start focusing on internships, you know, career, things like that. So I think it was just like timing, time in place and then having access to better mental health resources because in China, I mean culturally, even though my family isn't culturally Chinese, like, it's just not as widely available. So being back in the U.S.

I think was definitely the first step to it. And also it helped me realize that what I was doing just wasn't normal. And had I not had that, I don't know if I would have gotten help, honestly. How was that for you, though, seeking help, especially for something like, you know, drinking or doing drugs when you're that young? Like, that must have been challenging. Or did you, did you mean any resistance, like, from your peers? I feel like I spent a lot of my college years alone, actually.

Like, I wasn't really interested in making friends as sad as that sounds. but I've always been a little bit of like a home body. And my primary focus was just to graduate early. So I kind of like threw myself into school. And I found it easier that way too because I had a goal and a purpose and I just kind of wanted to get better and get out of college. I didn't really want to be in that environment. I think it was kind of hard to relate because a lot of people for the first time,

this was like their time to like get wild and let loose and like go to frat parties. I just wasn't on the same page. So I remember going to one of my very. few A.A. meetings and feeling like I'm the youngest person here. This is really weird. And I guess like having that realization that like I'm trying to get over before I'm even legally able to drink. Yeah, I definitely felt a little odd. But I just feel like focusing on school was like the thing that got me through because I had something to really put all my energy into that wasn't drinking. Well, I think that makes sense. I think that like for so many people, it's easy to kind of

fall into drugs and alcohol and have that because. your purpose. That's at least what happened to me. So it sounds like you had something else that was your purpose and you were able to kind of use that, not to replace the drugs and alcohol, but to like keep you on a path at least. I tried. I could not, nothing. No job, no school relationship. There was absolutely nothing external that could keep me from drinking and doing drugs, but everybody's different. Some people find that thing. Yeah. I think addiction is just like such a powerful disease that sometimes people forget it is a disease just like cancer or anything else that's more visible or physical. And it's so unique in that, you know, you will become like

almost a different person. Like you'll do anything to get what you need. Sometimes I've heard people kind of compare eating disorders to the same thing. It's almost this addiction to restriction. OCD can be similar in that way. So I think it's just, it's a personality type. It's a little bit of biology, I think. It's just something that I feel like I always have to remind myself is a disease the end of the day. Like, it's just not a matter of whether or not you can handle it normally. There's no such thing for someone like you or myself, you know? Yeah. It's so interesting, though, because I agree with you. I think it's, you know, a, what do they say, a progressive and terminal illness if left untreated. But unlike cancer or literally any other disease, it's the only

disease that you have to diagnose yourself with. Like, nobody can tell. People can say like, hey, I think you're an alcoholic or an addict. But until you agree, you're not getting better, which is like very difficult. Yeah, that is definitely the trickiest part because I think another thing you become really good at is just denying things when you are addicted and when you're really in it. Yeah. Denying and rationalizing. Oh, yeah.

Everything. So now that you have, I think we were talking about it earlier, like almost eight and a half years, somewhere around there, and you're still in your 20s and you're living out here and you're successful and all of that, have you had any moments where it's been hard for you to stay sober or where you've been tempted? And I mean, what has that been like for you? Surprisingly, I think COVID actually made things a little bit easier for me because I was sort of stuck inside. Like, the most difficult times would be for me going on, let's say, like, influencer trips with friends, summertime, especially when the drinks were just like pretty. You know, like, I kind of wanted

something that looked nice and was fun and not just like a seltzer with a wedge of lemon. So it was more of like, I think the social setting situations that made it tricky for me or having to explain to everyone at the table that like, you know, no, I'm good. I don't need a wine glass. Those situations get easier, but they're never, you know, I'm never like immune to them, I think, because social pressure is just like something else, especially for someone like me. But really, I think it's been also helpful for me to just kind of find the right people. I think if you can have a relationship with someone and not have to worry about alcohol and you can have a real meaningful conversation and do things that don't involve being, you know, drunk or high or whatever it is, like that is so, so helpful.

Because, yeah, you don't feel like you're really missing out on anything. In fact, like, it's great to be able to wake up and remember, you know, what I did the same before instead of just have to, like, piece it together. Yeah. So if ever I'm feeling tempted or I'm struggling, I just kind of remember the physical feeling of it. And it's, kind of similar to veganism in that sense where once I felt the physical difference in how good I could feel, it was just, you know, almost impossible for me to go back. Like I was like, I don't ever want to be in that place again. I think what you said was so important. Like, it's so important to pay attention to the people that you're surrounding yourself with

and kind of the energy there because I feel like there are people who can kind of make you want to like get out of yourself a little bit more or get out of like the circumstance. And then there are people who you can really just feel comfortable with and be yourself around. And that's another thing. Like so many people, younger women in particular will message me and ask like how to deal with friends who are peer pressuring them to drink. And I'm like, well, that in and of itself is a problem. Like, you know, but it's so hard to kind of extricate yourself from those kind of friendships. Yeah, I think it definitely is something that I feel like continues to be a struggle is like I'll have friends who actually most of my friends still drink,

which I think is great to realize that like you can have friends who still drink. Not every friend that you have needs to be sober. But it's almost like they kind of know like, okay, we're doing yoga at 7 a.m. That's my girl. Like we'll hang out. And then they'll do their thing at night and I'm at home like in bed or whatever, taking a bath. It's just like knowing, I guess, preferences and why and where you connect with different people and having those people be your go to for like, And that has worked out well for me. I guess I just haven't really been in too many situations where it's felt like that was something I needed. So I guess another important thing would be just to assess like the situations you're printing yourself in, like the environments, the events

you're going to, do you really need to be going or do you need like time to maybe strengthen your sobriety a little bit? So you mentioned anxiety too. I'm curious if you have any tips or tools or like how your anxiety is today. I can imagine as also an anxious person. and like being in this industry and having to put yourself out there all the time, it can be really draining. And for me, it can be super triggering for my anxiety and feeling like you have kind of like your online persona, even if it's authentic. It's still like, it's hard to explain if you're not in the industry. I feel like the mental aspect of anxiety is like really challenging for me. And I almost have like accepted the fact that there are very few things that

will help me. So I've kind of leaned a little bit more on physical treatment. Like taking a bath, I know will physically calm my nerves a little bit more. Any kind of sweatiness, like whether it's yoga, meditation, sorry, scratch that, not meditation, yoga or running. Just something to kind of like get my blood pumping. I feel like that helps me a lot. You know, I have done a lot of therapy and like CBT work specifically, but I haven't found much of it to be very helpful for me because I can just, I don't know, I can just think in circles. It's really. terrible sometimes. So I feel like the best thing for me is to not try to attack it that way and just think more about the physical ways I can attack it because a lot of it is really mind-body.

Like you can change so much about the way you feel based on how much you're sweating, your body temperature, like everything. So that has been super helpful for me. Social media wise, and it's like funny you say that because I feel like people will tell me all the time, you seem so social and like outgoing and confident. And I'm like, you realize my job is like, I'm home alone talking to my phone, right? Like I'm not socialized. It's social media, but I'm alone. Like, that's why I love it. Yeah.

It is kind of a, I think it just can be misleading, like, no matter how authentic and how real you show up. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's so funny. I agree so much. Do you consider yourself an introvert or an extrovert or an extroverted or extroverted? Very, very introverted. Okay. Very.

Yeah, I'm like, no, this job is perfect for me because I can be alone all the time. And then people are like, like, the funniest message that I got, I think, was when people were, I think it was a Q&A that I did. And people were like, you just seem lonely. And you were like, you have a whole ass husband. I don't know. I was like, thank you. Like, just because I don't show my life. Like, it's so interesting. People just have no boundaries, really, or like respect for boundaries with social media nowadays. Yeah. It's hard to find the balance between how much you share and what you don't share. I feel like that's something I've tried to learn a little bit more this year. I had just like so many family things, personal life things happen. And I've realized that sometimes it's really nice to give yourself grace.

and not share. It's hard for me because when I started social media and the reason why I have my platform is because I was using it like basically a diary and like a journal through therapy, nobody was supposed to see it.

And I think just because I started that way, I'm like a little too comfortable oversharing. Like I'm a professional overshare. So I think that also sometimes gives the illusion of like, oh my God, she's so extroverted and social and confident and like sharing herself. When in reality it's like I meet someone in person

and they'll DM like, oh, I was freaking out. And I was like, girl, I was sweating. Like, I was like stuttering, like frenzied, you know. If you guys have listened to even just a few episodes of this podcast, then you know that I am a big fan of little micro habits that carry over and positively impact a lot of different areas of my life. And I'm also a fan of routine, not so much in the sense of like what I do on a day-to-day

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the citrus, and the orange salt. I like anything citrus. They also have really, really, interesting good flavors like mango chili, raspberry, grapefruit, they have unflavored, if that's your jam. And it is another one of these kind of little wellness hacks that you can incorporate to have so many benefits in your life. So if you guys want to try this, they have a great deal for you. You can purchase an Element sample pack for the cost of shipping, which is $5 for U.S. orders at drinkelement.com slash blonde files. And if you're not happy, they will return your money with no questions asked. So that's drinklm-m-t.com slash blonde files. And you'll get a sample pack for the cost of shipping. So you've mentioned your veganism a little bit. Did that start around the same time as your

recovery? Yeah, it was pretty much all around the same time. Like I had been working on, I guess, eating disorder recovery specifically for a little bit longer than that. And it's, kind of a tricky thing where like addiction, like you can't really assess whether or not you're fully recovered until you kind of know. Like there are little things that help me realize, okay, I feel like this is recovery, like eating something and not thinking for a second about nutrition or numbers or anything, just purely focusing on the enjoyment of it without a second thought. Like that's a key moment for me that indicates like, wow, you've come a long way. But there's no marker of like you are recovered or you're not. There's no, not even like a number

on the scale that means, okay, you're healthy now because it's all about, you know, where your mind's at. But anyway, I was kind of sort of in recovery. And then I found veganism. And it wasn't until I went vegan that I felt like, wow, I have this completely new relationship with food where it's exciting to me to want to cook things. Part of it was I was forced to because at the time, like, vegan options were a little bit more minimal than they are now. But, you know, I really enjoyed picking out fruits and vegetables at the farmer's markets. I would get excited to try, like, whatever mac and cheese I could find at the store, it kind of gave me like a purpose to eat again and more excitement about food, whereas before it was so much fear. And I will say when you're

cooking from scratch, there are a lot less labels that you can look at to like try and track those things. Like, you're not going to find nutrition facts on an eggplant. So that helped me a lot. And I think everything else kind of just fell into place because when I realized, okay, a big reason why I'm doing this is compassion. I felt like it just didn't make sense for me not to be treating myself well when I was focusing so much on how eating vegan has a positive impact on animals and the planet and other people. It just felt like a little bit of a disconnect. So that was like the missing piece for me, I think. Something that I've noticed about you is I feel like you have compassion and everything that you do. And you're, I don't want to classify you in like

different types of vegans, but obviously you're very passionate about it and passionate about your reasons. But you also are able to be compassionate towards people who aren't or who who aren't quite there yet. And this is something that I get a lot of pushback on because I share, I develop a lot of vegan recipes, but I'm not vegan. And people have a big problem with that. And I've seen you address it, not with me, but with other people, I think, or in like a Q&A in the past.

And you're very accepting of, like, where people are. And, like, even little progress is still progress. Where do you think that outlook came from? I have to admit, like, I was a little bit of a crazy vegan when I first went. Oh, you were? I think like everyone has that moment where like you realize you have this light bulb moment and you're so upset at the fact that you didn't realize earlier. At least that's what it was for me. Like I felt like I couldn't believe I'd been not vegan before this.

And I was so angry because I was just so passionate. I was like, why doesn't everyone see it this way? And with time, I think you learn to remember that like you came from the same place. Like not many people were born vegan. Nobody in my family is vegan. You know, I would like have fights with them over the dinner table. And it's like, where is this coming from? All of a sudden, it's like, yesterday you were eating cheese, you know? So it's just a little bit like, I think it comes with time and also

thinking about what's going to have the greatest impact on other people. Personally, I think it's like better to have 100 people drinking oat milk than like one person be perfectly vegan. And if we're really talking about, you know, helping animals out, like we have to recognize that there are things that are going to make a huge change. And it doesn't mean that everyone has to do it perfectly. So it's almost like, why would I be upset when like, people are making their way there slowly or doing it like 50% instead of 0%. It just kind of pushes away people from wanting to do anything that they are. I guess it's just, yeah, that realization and also wanting to encourage people to try it and kind of break that stereotype of like the angry vegan because that was all I saw when I first went vegan and I thought you had to be that way.

But it's kind of funny. Like I'll get pushed back from vegans even though we're on the same team, I feel like. Right. For them, it's like, it's not enough. Like, you're too, you know, forgiving of people eating things on their, you know, off moments. I just sum it up to, like, all forms of advocacy are important and will appeal to different people. But for me, I just, angry vegan, like, just wasn't a fit for, like, my energy personally. It was very exhausting.

I think if anyone came back at me, I would not be able to handle it. So I was like, I just don't dish it out that way. Yeah, the angry vegan. I feel like that's a good podcast name, maybe. I'm curious, like, I'm sure that you do still get pushback or like, how do you deal with people's opinions and commentary and judgment on your life? Because I'm sure even like the nicest of people online get a good amount of hate. So how do you deal with that coming from a background of having anxiety and like being kind of sensitive? I think one thing that helped me the most was probably realizing that that saying that all press is good press.

I mean, I don't necessarily believe that, but it's more like realizing that even negative comments and engagement is still engagement at the end of the day. Like, thank you, I guess, you know, for allowing me to do what I do. But I also just feel like if you're not upsetting anyone, you're probably not doing anything tremendously impactful. Like, it's just nothing new. Like, you can't always play it safe. And that's very much how I was as a person. So I feel like pushing boundaries is important sometimes. And then I have this like five minute rule where if I see a comment that really upsets me, like, I'll take a good five.

minutes and just wait to respond because, you know, like, we're all human. I've had moments where I responded really, really nasty back to people. And what ends up happening is like, I just feel worse. I feel terrible. And I'll delete my own comment or just, it doesn't feel good. So I'll hold off and then I'll try to respond with as much compassion as possible. But sometimes, I mean, it just depends on the day. Yeah. It's so funny because even if you respond with like the most, I don't know, persuasive, like articulate response, or if you clap back, it doesn't matter. Like, all that that person wants is a response anyway. So, like, any response is a win for them, but it's hard. And it's funny about the engagement thing, because the videos or, like, the reels of mine of cooking that have gone viral

are always the ones where everybody is fighting in that comment. Yeah. It's so funny. I did one, like, over the summer, where I remade a Martha store at one pot pasta. Okay? It's, like, so benign. And I just, like, put the thing in the skillet with, and I said in the beginning, like, I made Martha Stor's pasta. Well, it angered a lot of people that I cooked it all in one pot. And I mean, the comments were, like, psychotic and people calling me names. And like, and I'm like, oh, my God. But it went viral. So, thank you. Yeah, it's funny. Like, I dread things going viral almost. I feel like I hold myself back a lot because it's like, I can't handle that. amount of engagement, like of any kind. Once you sort of leave your bubble of like your safe haven and your sweet people and your community, it's like a very scary world. At the same time, like, that's how you know it's reaching other people. Like if you continue to just reach your own community,

like, what good is it doing? But it still scares me. Like sometimes I'm like, this is getting too many views. I'm going to take it down. Like honestly, it scares me. But you're pretty big on TikTok. And I feel like TikTok, even though you have your followers, like if a video does well, it's still going to go out to so many people that don't know you. And I feel like TikTok, especially like the meaner or the snarkier the comments, the better. That's true. That's true. I feel like I've kind of created this hierarchy where it's like Instagram is probably the kindest.

I don't have Twitter, so I can't say anything about that. But Instagram's the kindest. And then it's like, I think it's, I want to say it's YouTube next. And then it's TikTok is really nasty. But the worst is like Facebook comments. I'm really not on Facebook, but I've seen some of my friends comments. And I'm like, God, that's like so much worse than TikTok. Like people are angry on Facebook.

And I feel like above all of that would be. Twitter. So it's probably a good thing that I will not be signing up. I have a Twitter. I have like no followers, but I never go on it either. But if I do ever like see a tweet or something about somebody else that like goes viral and I see the comments below and I'm like, holy shit. Like people just go on there to fight. Oh, that's not for me. But that's like the climate now or the culture. Like people just want to like fight and be like nasty and snarky. I feel like not everybody. But yeah. And get, you know, it's like they want to comment to go viral kind of. Yeah. There's like a reward. for having some kind of snarky, funny, or witty comment, which, I mean, it's unfortunate,

but it's really true. I feel like TikTok started that. Yeah, for sure. And sometimes they're really funny. Like, if they're not mean. But unless it's on your video, then you're like, damn it. Okay. So I know that you're big on a morning routine or you have been in the past. What's your morning routine now? And what are your wellness? Like, what is wellness to you? And what are your non-negotiables? That was three questions and one. So morning routine. I've always been a morning routine. I've always been a a very early morning person, but since we were talking about our aura rings earlier, I have been trying to sleep more. Also trying to force myself to stay in bed a little bit longer.

I used to love wake up with a son, like no matter what the season was or where I was in the world. But sleeping in has been super important for me because, like, honestly, I really don't sleep before 12 most nights. So with that in mind, like, I used to be able to get away with it. Like, I would wake up at 5, 4.30, no matter how late I went to bed. And that still is true. And I've tried kind of reversing it where it's like, I know that I wake up early, so therefore I have to go to bed early. But it just doesn't work. So I'll try. And especially on weekends, like wake up a little later.

But I guess still I'm waking up pretty early almost every single day. First thing I love to do is just lots of water, a macho latte, most every single morning, actually. Let's be real. And then if I can, some kind of movement. So whatever gets me like sweating. Since moving to L.A., that's been a lot more hiking, which has been so nice. Just being outside, like walking, which I know. you're a big fan of and I love to.

Stretching and then I'll do some like guasha because I wake up very pale and puffy. It's like I'm a vampire. So I have like all the focus is like getting the blood moving and like back into my face basically. A little bit of emails. And those are kind of like the things that I cannot start my day without. And even if I'm traveling, I feel like most of those things are pretty portable. So I'll do them no matter what.

But for me, non-negotiable is definitely the amount of sleep I get. Lots of water in the morning because I'm actually terrible about drinking. water throughout the rest of the day, macha would probably, sadly, be non-negotiable for me. And then some kind of like movement or something to get the blood flowing. And then last question, wellness, that's like such a tricky question. But I think when I first started getting into wellness, it was all about physical health for me. What drew me to veganism at the very beginning was definitely physical health first. And obviously, like, my intention with like getting sober and stopping using was to be

healthier. It really scared me thinking about just like the damage that I was doing to my body. And I feel like a lot of my initial wellness journey was focused on trying to repair the damage that I was doing. So it was all very kind of sterile, like very medical almost. And then I realized, of course, like nothing is healthy when you don't have balance with it. So once I felt like, okay, it's getting kind of extreme, like how many different tools can I use on my face in the morning or like how many supplements am I going to take? I started to prioritize sleep. I started to prioritize sleep. And And I think that was like the missing piece for me of like finding the balance is like making sure that whatever I'm doing I still feel rested and like well. So yeah, I would say a combination of physical, mental, of course, like emotional and just like spiritual well-being for me.

It all has to be in balance. If one thing's off, I feel like that's not true wellness. How do you practice balance with work? Because I see what you're doing. You were putting out videos. constantly and like very aesthetic and very thoughtful and you're developing all these incredible recipes and it just feels like you're able to just kind of like churn it out without losing obviously any of the quality or intention behind it. And that's something that I personally

really struggle with and I struggle with having boundaries with social media, especially now where it feels like it's just so everything is so heightened and you have to be like documenting everything. So how do you apply those same principles of balance to your career and to social media. One thing that's been great for me is just focusing on my interpersonal relationships because I am happy to be alone. Like I love to be alone. I thrive, living alone in New York for like years. But I feel like that's also an easy way to fall into that workaholic hole because you don't realize that it's not normal to be like emailing at 10 p.m. So just surrounding yourself with people, just so you remember it's important to socialize. It's important to like have a life. And because I know

that I am the way I am with work and scheduling and calendars and lists and everything, I feel like I just treat it the same way of the same importance and like put quality time on my calendar, put rest time on my calendar, put no phone time on my calendar. If I don't do that, it just doesn't happen. So I am like a slave to my calendar, but it really helps me so much because it's almost like telling your brain that your meeting and your 15 minutes of time off your screen is of equal importance. So I really like that. But definitely a challenge for me too. This year, I feel like what's helped me a lot is knowing that, like, I almost sometimes feel like I need to create. Like, it's just like it feels off if I'm not creating. And it is fun. Like, when you work a job that

you love and you're passionate about, it's like a trap. Like, you don't realize you're working so much. So this year, I hired Help Boy the first time ever. And that's been a game changer for me. And I still struggle a little bit with like having guilt about that or maybe imposter syndrome where I'm like, I'm a food blogger, like, what do I need a team for? But the truth thing, the answer is everything. Outsource everything. Yeah. It's like, why are you working so hard and making money to just continue to like drill yourself into the dirt? You know, like I feel like at this point I've earned the right to have balance in my life. And for me, that looks like knowing that I need to hire people to at least do the things I don't love doing. So I'm still very hands-on, still very much a workaholic.

But it's getting better. Yeah. Like just like surrounding yourself with people, more often, I think it's like a sounding board, kind of like we're talking about alcohol and drug use, like when you realize your behaviors aren't normal, you're like, okay, this is good for me. Like, I have something to compare to and you, like, tone it down. Yeah, I definitely can relate to that. And I definitely can tell, like, especially with work, when it needs to be toned down. And it feels like, I feel like we're in that place right now, at least for me. Do you feel like it's completely changing right now, like the landscape of social media and

what you have to do. I feel like it's like video every day. Yeah. And that's like video takes a while for me. Especially what we do like with cooking. I mean, you're doing dishes, your recipe developing. It takes, it takes time. So not having any help before. It was definitely like challenging. So my boyfriend, he's like a content creator and he used to work in restaurants. So he was very much used to like the grind and working like 9 a.m. till like 2 a.m. at the restaurant. And when he started TikTok, the way he blew up was posting three recipe videos a day. And kind of seeing him and like how psycho he was being about it. I was like, wow. I thought I was psycho. Like you were really psycho. And I was like, you got to tone this down and we'll kind of keep

each other in check a little bit, which helps. But at the same time, it's like traveling a lot, especially. I don't know if you do the same. It's like, I want to like stock up on content so that I can like take times off. So I guess I work in like batches almost. It's like, let me have a stressful week and then like chill for a little bit until my content pool runs out. I feel like I, sorry, Brian, we're just like. rambling now. I feel like it's impossible to get ahead now, at least for me. Maybe it's just, I need to manage my time better. But it feels like, yeah, I'm like, I'm not a videographer or like a video. It just used to be so different when you could like shoot content with a photographer and that

was your content for a week. And then you could do like video in between and then I miss photos. I know, me too. That was good stuff. Me too. I have a bone to pick with Instagram. I'm like, why are you trying to be TikTok? Let TikTok be TikTok and stay doing what you were. doing. Anyway, sorry about that, a little tangent. Well, thank you so much for coming on. I think you're so refreshing and so inspiring. And obviously, your content is amazing. So where can everybody find you and check it out if they aren't already following you? All of my handles, I think they're just at Veggie Kin. So it's like Veggie and then K-I-N-S. It doesn't mean anything. It's like a random handle that I got stuck with. But all the recipes that I post are on my website, which are VeggieKinsblog.com

and the rest, like TikTok, YouTube, Instagram, Pinterest are all just veggie pins. I don't have Twitter. I have no plans to have Twitter. So. Thank you. Thank you. I hope you enjoyed that episode. If you liked it, and if you like the show in general, please take a second to rate, review, and subscribe. It goes a long way, and it's actually the best way to support the show. Also, if you want to see more about each episode, you can head over to The Blonde Files podcast on Instagram. I'm always posting about each episode there or over on my personal page at Ariel Lorry.