Well with Arielle Lorre - 24: ERICA BASSO, LMFT - The Therapist Is In

Episode Date: September 25, 2019

In this episode I talk to Erica Basso, LMFT about the pervasive issues women (and men!) are facing in today's world. We discuss the idea that lack of connection and community are at the core of many mental health and substance use disorders - and given that Erica worked in rehab facilities and I frequented them, we had much to talk about on that subject. Erica lays out the four most common challenges she sees in practice today - being anxiety, burnout, imposter syndrome and perfectionism - and explores their origins as well as solutions.  This episode is packed with tips on how to live in the now, be more mindful, self regulate, change negative self talk and deal with general anxiety. It's also full of candid sharing about my own experiences with these issues. Enjoy!   Follow Erica on Instagram: www.instagram.com/mindbyfood Follow Arielle on Instagram: www.instagram.com/ariellelorre Follow the podcast on Instagram: www.instagram.com/theblondefilespodcast See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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So, would auto-hue without your re-sadviseur or SunnyCars. combe. Today I'm talking to Erica Basso,

who is a licensed marriage and family therapist. She provides therapy to professional women and some men, many of whom feel disconnected, frustrated, or lonely. She says, our society perpetuates the idea that we must strive to be something other than we are, to be less aggressive, less emotional, younger looking, thinner, etc. These strong pressures cause many to strive to some ideal of perfection. This leads to the comparison trap, feelings of never being good enough, and wondering what you were doing wrong when everyone seems to be on track in life. I don't know about you, but I definitely succumb to that pressure sometimes, and I have tended to be a perfectionist in my life. I don't

think perfectionism is anything to brag about. Brunay Brown says perfectionism is just fear in a fancy coat and I think that's pretty much what mine is. But we really unpack this and we talk about a lot of the issues that women are facing today like anxiety, burnout, imposter syndrome, perfectionism. We talk about negative self-talk. We talk about missing out on our lives, lack of connection. But we also talk about how to navigate the modern world where we are going to experience all of these things. and live more mindfully, be in the here and now, how to self-regulate and self-soothe without reaching for our phone or food or online shopping or any of the distractions that we have right in front of us today. So this episode is full of tips and things that we can implement

in our own lives to deal with a lot of the pressures we experience today. And guys, it's like an hour and 15 minute free therapy session, basically. So I really think you're going to love it. On another note, just a little bit of housekeeping, I just want to talk to you guys for one second about the podcast and the system of rating and reviewing and subscribing. I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I think a lot of people don't realize that iTunes, just like Instagram, has its own algorithm. And in order for shows to get featured and to really get out there, there have to be. to be a lot of reviews and ratings and subscribers. So as much as I hate always being caught up in

the numbers game, it is really important. I really want to get this podcast out there to more people. And I appreciate everybody who has reviewed and rated and subscribed and shared on social media. But I do see like the number compared to the number of people who listen. And it's a teeny, teeny, tiny fraction. So I would really appreciate it. It just takes one second. If you listen and you like it to just leave a review, it's a small thing that makes a huge difference for me. And with that, I will jump over to the interview with Erica. I hope you guys love it. I'm Ariel Lorry and this is the Blonde Files podcast where I talk to experts, influencers, and inspirational people in the world of wellness and beyond. Okay. So I'm here with

Erica Basso. Hi, Erica. Hi. And I have Kennedy. Hello. She might be joining us in this conversation today. Sometimes I sit here silently and just like soak up all the info. Yeah, but I think you, you know, this topic is relevant for you as well. So very true. Erica is a licensed marriage and family therapist. And I'm really excited to pick your brain today. So excited. So I want to rewind a little bit and kind of start. But, but. But, you know, talking about why you decided to pursue therapy? Yeah, I've been thinking a lot about that lately. Well, you know, growing up, I was always like very trying to figure out people and how they developed who they are today. And I was always really fascinated by people's stories and human behavior

and always really an observant child. So, but, you know, it wasn't until like, college that I like realized that I wanted to be a therapist. So I originally went to college for like premed, like wanted to be a dermatologist, was obsessed with skin for like my whole life. But I quickly realized that that was not in the stores for me because I could not like pass pre-calc, which was pretty, you know, you can't press pre-calc probably. Who could? That was hard. Yeah. I probably can't get into any pre-med so you know that was a really tough time that was like after my first my freshman year and so I really had to do some I guess soul searching on what I wanted to do with my life but I always knew that I wanted to do something for work that didn't feel like work and I always knew that I wanted to do

something that would make people's lives better and I think I was like on a panel watching a panel and there was a therapist there and she was just talking about her work and I was like, hmm, this sounds really, really, really interesting. So I did a lot of research. I'd spent like a lot of days and like coffee shops just like researching everything about how to become a therapist. Kind of schooling is necessary. And so I originally thought I was going to be a couple's therapist and I went to grad school for that. you know, all throughout grad school, any classes about adolescent or teens or individual adults. I wasn't really interested. I was like, I'm going to be the next couple's therapist. But, you know, it was like the last year that I really realized that I don't want to do that, at least not right now. And I really, what I know really well is women's issues and women's

mental health because I am a woman. I went through a lot of my own struggles and journey to getting here today. So I really realized that I could help a lot of women and I can understand them really well. And that's really important work to me right now because I think we're under a lot of pressure right now. So much pressure. Yeah. So how long have you been practicing for? Three years now. I started in substance abuse. So I was in there for a couple years. And then now I am licensed this year, which is super exciting. It was a long journey.

But I got it done. And I'm in private practice now, which has always been my end goal, is to be my own boss and work my own schedule. That's the dream, right? Yeah. Yeah, I really want to talk about your private practice and what you're seeing, what issues you're seeing. But obviously, I'm also curious in the substance abuse part of that. because of my own history with that and Kennedy as well. Wait, did I just out you? I think I've talked about being sober on your report. I'm sober, everybody. I just found out today.

Yeah, I just found out today. Yeah, I mean, I was just saying this off mic a second ago, but Ariel and I have an experience in treatment and in sobriety from like the addicts perspective, but I love picking the brains of people who are on the other side, who are the, mental health care in the facilities because I think it's so interesting to hear your observations of what you see the clients going through because I feel like I mean I know at least for myself when I was in treatment I was not right in the head and so I wasn't able to really like receive a lot of the information but it's cool to hear about those experiences through a therapist's eyes and I'm so interested in like I mean I did work in substance if you're

abuse treatment for a little while. And I know that it can be really, I mean, talk about burnout. Yeah. It's kind of like, like, yeah, when you're in an acute treatment setting, first of all, the fog hasn't cleared for a lot of people. So it's really hard to even penetrate through a lot of their stuff that's going on and make a difference. And then they're gone. And then the rate of recovery is so low unfortunately so yeah i'm i'm also very curious what your experience was like with that yeah well where to start with me we're like tell us everything yeah as much as you want to know my side i would love to hear more of your your guys's experiences as you know clients there trying to recover and um all that but definitely i was one of it is the most challenging population i hate that word but it is the most challenging

like work is substance abuse and I'm really grateful for that training because now like, you know, I can deal with anything that comes. I'm not surprised at anything. Like I worked, well, I guess I can begin like, I worked with a lot of the, um, the prison population. So like males on parole. Um, I worked at, um, a residential for that in downtown Santa Ana. And that was like my first clients ever, never had any experience and they just sent me there. Other people were playing with kids in like Santre and kids didn't talk and I'm hanging out with like gang members alone, you know, no experience, right? So that was such a learning curve that year. And then I transitioned into working in outpatient for substance abuse in Bel Air. So very different worlds, I'm sure.

Same issues though. Same stuff. We actually got a lot of our clients from all over the country. So actually it was a similar population. It was really hard work. I've gotten called a lot of different names. And it really took my own, I guess I had to do a lot of my own work, of course, on how I can know how to help people and how I cannot take things personally

and all of that. But it was, it's hard, hard, hard work. I feel like addicts and alcoholics especially, like there's so much shame that presents as anger and lashing out and, you know, defiance kind of puffing your chest at whoever's closest to you trying to help, which is often the therapists when you get into that setting. Yeah, yeah. it took a while to get like to realize that and not react and not no it's not about me and to really have empathy for the person how did you not take on your client's emotions and like take it home with you because i feel like that's i mean it's a it's a general theme i i hear through therapists but also in just everyday life i feel like we take on so many of our friends and

families emotions so what kind of boundaries and how did the boundaries kind of come about that you set for yourself I think I had a lot to do with doing my own personal therapy. Like, I've been in therapy pretty much throughout grad school and then also throughout post-grad and even now I started again. But it's really doing a lot of my own work and I didn't realize how much work I had to do and I still have so much work to do. You know, things keep popping up and you get triggered and you really have to separate.

you have to know yourself and be able to separate this is my stuff coming up, you know, and really ground yourself. And I found that through a lot of, like, self-compassion practices, like really self-soothing myself. You know, as adults, we have to be able to do that, even if we didn't get that as children, unfortunately. And it's not fair. But that really works. So, like, just being mindful of what is. yours and how to separate that from, you know, reacting off of that, like, in session with the client. And then when I go home, I make sure that, um, I've gotten better at this over the

years, but I make sure that I have, like, things outside of work that are meaningful to me, too. Like, I love to cook. I love to go to concerts. I, you know, I love to go on, I take vacations when I can. I still like hang out with my friends and pursue other hobbies. So really not going home and just thinking and worrying about all of all of the stuff that's being put on me that feels like to fix and really having my life outside a home taking care of myself. I feel like knowing how to self-soothe and self-regulate are so important. And I think for me at least, and for probably a lot of other people who have struggled with substance abuse and even other process addictions, it came from not knowing how to self-regulate. So I had to find something outside

of myself to do so. So what are a few, I mean, are there things that people can do who have trouble? Because now it's so easy. If you feel a negative emotion, you can reach for your phone and get on Instagram and see how many likes you get. Or you can reach for the wine. Or you can do it. External validation. Do online shopping. I mean, it's like there's something always at the fingertips.

So I'm curious if you have any like tips that maybe listeners could do if they feel like they're getting like in a heightened stage just to kind of. So a big part of how I deal with emotions, how I guide clients to deal with their emotions is through changing our relation to our emotions. So instead of trying to stuff emotions or get rid of them or distract ourselves, but I mean, distraction is good at certain, you know, time-limited amounts, but it's really befriending your emotions. So thinking of it, like, whatever's coming up for me, no matter how difficult, yes,

it's really our body is brilliant, beautiful way of communicating. to us and it's really a roadmap for all that's all that's needed and we really have that within ourselves like the answers of what's needed and how to meet our own needs but you know that sounds so easy but it's so much harder in the moment so to not get flooded by emotions or not getting overwhelmed by them i always first you have to learn how to just let the emotion wash over you and not be too afraid of letting that happen. So how to regulate our nervous system is through the breath. We have that power. And it's through like true breathing. So full inhales, full exhales, and really focusing on breathing and knowing that you have that power to regulate your nervous

system. So once that has happened, you can tune into like, what is this trying to tell me? like for anxiety, for example, like, you know, what is this telling me about what's off or what's needed? And it's usually an unmet need. And so those are like needs for connection, food, water, sleep. Those are all huge ones. And when those aren't met, then everything goes haywire. But it's also like meaning and purpose. and our other needs are like belonging.

Yeah. I love that term befriending emotion. Yeah. Yeah. It's a different way of looking. Some theories of, you know, healing and therapy that I was taught in grad school is like to, you know, you have dysfunctional thinking, you should get rid of this. And, you know, these negative emotions.

But, you know, all emotions is part of the human experience and that those are all okay. And it's really about how can I change my relationship with this emotion? Because anything that is ever coming up for us is really giving us a lot of information. It's really trying to tune in and learn how to self-soothe throughout the uncomfortableness and the distress. And then find out what that's trying to say. That's a pretty powerful way to kind of shift your perspective. And instead of being like, I know for me when I have negative emotion, pop up, I used to like be a fighter and I would fight, fight, fight, and it's like what you

resist persists, right? Yeah. So looking at it instead as like, oh, this is my body telling me something. Like, I need, I need to pay attention to this. You said that a large part of what we refer to as mental illness comes from a lack of connectedness and belonging. Can you talk about that? Because I feel like we're in this place now where it's like there's so little connection.

Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot of what I saw, especially working with people struggling with substance abuse, and I have personal family members that still struggle with substance abuse. And it really, I find that, you know, the number one thing that people say that they use, you know, or they relapse because is, like, boredom. Like, that's one of them. And when people say that they're bored, you know, I've really come to find that that really means that

they're either not tap, they're not sharing their gifts with the world. They're not, they're not using their unique, like, strengths, and they're not, they're not, like, using what they were, they're here for. And so that's why I think there's, there's this boredom and wanting to avoid, you know, avoid life or just check out. But what was the other part? I just, I was just curious about what you were saying about the lack of connectedness and belonging.

But yeah, I totally get that. I feel like not to keep referring back to myself, but I know for me, like, whenever I share about why I even started in the beginning, it was because I always, even though I had lots of people around me and I was, you know, popular and I had friends and all that inside. I always felt like I was not connected. Like I was just a half a step off from everybody else. And I think that's why like 12-step programs, when people do what's asked, like if people actually do it, it can be, it's so successful because all of a sudden you have a fellowship and a community and your purpose is to help other people.

So all of a sudden you have a purpose and you're using, you're useful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, think about today's world, like, especially if you live in a city and people who are listening, like, if you live in a city or even if you live in L.A., you know that there really is a lack of community here. And everyone's really busy doing their own thing. And, you know, it's just so easy to spend the day thinking that, you know, you're being social on social media, you know, and having your friends on social media and commenting on their pictures, but never really. having the face-to-face, like, real conversations without the phone at dinner with your friends.

It's just so hard to do these days, but it's so important. It's probably one of the number one things that I see in my therapy office is, you know, this loneliness. And it's just really hard, especially if you move here, you move to a city from somewhere else and you don't know anyone here. It's really hard to make friends as adult. It's like next to you impossible at first. Yeah. Yeah. So I want to talk about what issues you're seeing a lot of, we kind of talked a little bit beforehand about this. So we can just kind of start maybe with like burnout. Yeah. Yeah. How does how does burnout present in somebody's life? Well, I always, I always like to say if you, you can ask yourself this question. Like if you feel like you're really exhausted because.

of your long to-do list, yet every day you think that you're not doing enough. Like, you just feel like you have to go, go, go. You're probably, probably heading or already, you know, on the edge of burnout. And so it shows up as, you know, an increased cynicism at work or in life and relationships, lack of meaning that you used to have, meaning you're smiling. You're like describing my life right now. Okay. Yeah. I think, well, I think, well, I I mean, it's happening to a lot of us because we're always partially on, like, you know, our phones. It's one little notification or ding away from already being back into that, like, stress response of, like, answering to work.

And then you're trying to be present with, you know, your family or your partner. And it's really hard to be at five million places at once. So we're never, we're never really off. And I think so often with, I mean, especially the work that Ariel does and even probably a little bit with what you do as well, it's the pressure of like, oh, I'm grinding all the time. And that's, I'm validating myself because I'm grinding all the time and I'm working all the time. And we hold so much value in how often we're working versus the successes. Yeah. Especially with working on social media.

Oh, of course. No hours because when you're up against something like an algorithm and not even the algorithm, but it's like some, yeah. And I was thinking about that today because I woke up at six in the morning and reached for my phone and was like literally on my phone. Nothing else happening in the world until 1045. And like when I put it down, it was all work. Do you usually do that? No, no, because I know better. but like I put it down my eyes were bloodshot my brain was fried I felt like my day was fucking ruined and I was like this would not happen like even maybe 10 years no not 10 years ago because there wasn't social media like it is today but also like even in our lifetime like pre internet like I would have to go into an office when people would go to work and that would those would be my hours not like whenever I like you're saying whenever I reach for my phone

because there's always going to be an email. There's always going to be a notification. There's always going to be, this is for people in social media, but something to share, you know, and like, it's just, it's crazy. Yeah, we're addicted. We're addicted to our phones. Yeah, and I want to get to that, too. Like, we can talk about that after. But yeah, I think we're burnt out because we're just, you know, well, if you're anyone that went to college, like, you're probably in a lot of debt.

And so compared to our parents' generation, like, we're in enormous amount of debt. We don't have the same standards of living anymore. It's much harder to buy a house. Like, you know, and they really think that we're, like, very entitled generation. But I don't see it that way at all. I see that it's so much more competitive these days. And, you know, college education doesn't matter that much anymore. So we feel like we're always having to do more.

And, you know, then we'll be happy. I hear that a lot. You know, just if I accomplish this or get this promotion, then I can be happy. Allow myself to be happy then. And so if we're not celebrating the small successes along the way, which I had to learn how to do, you know, we're missing a lot of our life and we're not missing out on joy. Yeah, so how do we be mindful of avoiding burnout? Yeah, I'm ready to talk about that. This is so important, but, you know, like something like, I forgot the number, but a lot of people are not taking their deserved PTO or vacation days, you know, and that to me is like, well, you know, so I think taking your deserved PTO or vacation days or, you know, trying to take some time off every, every couple months to have a mental health.

day or something, that's really important. But also, if you work for a larger company, a lot of them have some type of wellness program. Either they'll pay for therapy or they have some type of wellness program because I think employers are realizing now that their employees' health is really related to productivity. And if the employee's mental health is dwindling, then they know that there's an incentive for them to really promote wellness and self-care and all of that. But also, I think, you know, if you can, like, find, well, I think, well, let's put it this way. If you work for a company and you're feeling burnt out, what I've seen a lot is people are feeling like they don't know what's expected of them.

They feel like there's so many projects coming on them. So I feel like really talking to your supervisor or your boss. about, you know, clarifying what's expected. And then also, for some people, it's even asking for, like, more meaningful type of work or, you know, more responsibilities. Because if we're just kind of, like, coasting, that could burn us up, too. And it's not necessarily that we're doing more work. It's that the work isn't meaningful or fulfilling anymore.

And then also, I think learning how to take breaks throughout the day, even if that's to mindfully eat your lunch and not be on the computer or to go for a walk like around the office building or wherever you work just taking breaks throughout the day and getting outside and there's so much to be said about you know nature and our health um yeah those are really good tips i'm going to go take a walk after this and put my computer away and go eat yeah i mean so much of us are kind of just eating because we have to. And I don't think that we're ever not, we're never slowing down to just mindfully do something. Now I say you can, you can practice mindfulness anywhere. You can practice while brushing your teeth. It's like just eliminating distractions and

really focusing on the sensations and the act of what you are doing in the present moment and not thinking about your to-do list or all the worries. I think it's really interesting that you pointed out that burnout doesn't mean you're working too much. Yeah. Because that's always the way that I've thought of burnout. You know, I feel like it's always been, oh, I'm burned out because I'm working too much or I'm burned out because this project is taking over my life. But there is something to be said about the fact if you aren't stimulated within your career,

your brain just goes in circles. I feel like I need to give you more meaningful tasks. No. Noted. We're on a good work path right now. know we're so good but just it's just I've never even thought of it that way yeah yeah yeah it's been quite the epidemic I think um so another issue that um it's probably extremely prevalent right now that is also related is anxiety is this just universal I mean I know you can't talk about

your patients but like I feel I feel like I don't know anybody who doesn't yeah have some form of anxiety. Anxiety is just inherently a part of life, right? Like we all feel anxiety. It's, I mean, it's really our relationship, again, to anxiety. So some people experiencing, like, the stress hormones of, like, adrenaline. And some people experience that as, like, oh, my God, I'm going to have a panic attack. Other people might experience that as, like, adrenaline to go out and socialize.

and like, you know, these are the more extroverted types. They experience that feeling with, you know, being extroverted and socializing, and they get really like a high off of that. For other people, you know, they can think, oh, no, something's wrong, and they don't know how to deal with it. And so, but yeah, everyone, I think everyone is going through anxiety, especially now. I mean, rates of anxiety have really rising over the years. So you're definitely not alone.

I used to be crippled by anxiety. So what do you do for your own anxiety? Now I really realize that, you know, again, I have the power to control my nervous system through my breath. I also am really mindful of how what I'm eating throughout the day. because I feel like we're going, yes, there's anxiety, like true, like, trauma reactions and triggers that cause anxiety, but then there's also, like, a lot of us are being just triggered into that stress response way too readily, and that's from, like, a drop in blood sugar, which is really interesting. So, um, basically when our blood sugar is crashing, it's sending like, oh my God, an alert to the, you know, to the brain that something's off. We don't know. When we're going to get our next meal and, you know, sends signals to the liver to break down storage. And a lot of us just experience anxiety at those parts of the day. So it's keeping your blood sugar level stable.

And a good hack is to, some people like to have, like, a spoonful of almond butter or coconut butter or coconut oil in between meals to keep your blood sugar levels stable. Because that's going to give you, like, the healthy fats and protein. and really changing my diet has helped with my anxiety because, you know, our Western diet we're just chronically being inflamed. Our blood sugars are like a roller coaster. So, you know, eliminating the refined white sugar, the refined carbohydrates and the flowers, of course. So really, it's the diet. I've changed my diet. I have realized that a lot of the, um, the, like the stories that I would tell myself when anxiety would come up are like either not my voice, you know, they're either like someone else's voice from like my childhood. So I know to just like

not listen to it. I've also changed like my, the story about like myself and how I decide to talk to myself now. And that comes with like talking to myself with like a kind voice instead of like my, my inner critic. I think we can all relate to that. But our self-talk matters a lot because that's what our brain doesn't distinguish between like fact and just some made-up thought. If somebody is finding that they're having a lot of negative self-talk, how do you recommend somebody go about that? Because it's kind of like a rewiring, right? Yeah. I mean, yeah, that's like basic neuroscience is it's really we have we can rewire the brain through repeated practice just like playing the piano is rewiring our brain um learning to think differently like different thoughts is also rewiring the

brain and so is mindfulness and all that but what i say is um you know if the people are listening and want to check out christin neff's uh research on self-compassion but basically she she says that or her Research has found that people who try to motivate themselves with criticism, like, they don't perform as well as people, or they don't preserve, persevere, as well as people who motivate themselves with self-compassion. So if someone is coming to me, say, in therapy, and I can tell that their self-talk is really negative and it's causing a limb, a lot of anxiety and other problems, and I really, I try to guide them into thinking about, you know, what would the ideal parent, you know, the perfect ideal parents say to their child in those moments, you know, what do you need to hear to feel safe and supported and really empowered to take control of your anxiety? So those are like cognitive coping, like affirmations kind of, yeah. I love that. Um, what about, what about?

imposter syndrome. How are you seeing this show up? Yeah, I'm seeing it, I think, and particularly in women, because I think, you know, like Renee Brown says, we're like, women have, like, a straight jacket full of expectations. You know, it's just so hard for us today. Like, we have to, you know, strive to be some form of perfection that society has deemed us.

and, you know, with social media, it's like you can just, like, zoom in on people and just, you know, compare yourself to, like, every inch of their body. And it's just, you know, it's really bad these days. But what I've been seeing is that particularly people, like, who've gone, you know, through college and they've gone into their career, you know, they're usually, like, more of the perfectionist people, like, they've done really well. and they've gone in straight A's and then they go into their career, their first job, and they're like, they don't know anything because they're so new and they're not used to that. Yeah, so perfectionism is another one, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I think that, like, perfectionism and it's different than just, like, regular achievement or wanting to excel. It's really about, like, our self-worth is contingent upon. what we produce or what we're doing. It's not really anything that's internal. So, yeah, that's something that I see a lot too. Elizabeth Gilbert has a quote that I love. And she said perfectionism is just fear in a fancy coat.

I love that. Like when people are like, I'm a perfectionist because people can kind of like wear it as a badge of honor. Oh yeah, we brag about it. Yeah, yeah, like busyness and, you know, doing, doing, doing. But what's interesting is, like, in my experience, perfection comes from our own standard of what we think that we need to produce for our self-worth. But it's all internal. It doesn't show through on the other end. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I am like a recovering perfectionist. So I know that all too well. I'm always thinking that, you know, if I didn't perform perfectly, then, you know, I'm a failure. Or if my work wasn't done perfectly, then I, you know, it was a failure for the day. So it's really learning how to, I mean, for me, my therapist had to really teach me how to, like, tolerate mistakes, like all humans make mistakes and it's not, it doesn't, you know, I used to think like, oh, no, I'm like off my path.

You know, I'm not going to, I'm never going to make it. You know, that's anxiety right too. But it's really learning the better self-talk, motivating yourself with a kind of. compassionate voice instead of like criticism and beating yourself up. And learning, this was a big one for me. Learning when good enough

is good enough. So that that's really where I try to guide the women that I see today. And not letting perfection. What's that other quote? Like perfection is the enemy of good or something like that?

I don't know. That's also true though. Yeah. Okay, we'll just pretend that that was a quote. There's something like it. I'm butchering it. Have you heard it? Oh. Okay. Yeah, so that's interesting. I mean, it seems like all these issues are probably co-occurring. Like, they all go hand in hand. Yeah, that's what I've been seeing. Like, you know, if you are someone that beats yourself up with, you know, the self-talk and you're likely to have more anxiety, you're likely to be someone who, you know, despite all of your, you know, achievements

and all the things that you've done, you know, you can get a PhD, all those accolades. You still feel like you're not good enough for the job or the position or even like a loving partner. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, if you're looking for something outside you to validate you, it's never going to be enough. Perfection is the enemy of progress. No, but there's another one. Keep looking. Yeah, do your research for us.

That was close, though. I like that one too. Now I lost my train of thought. Oh, yeah. I mean, if you're looking for something outside of you to validate you, it's never going to be good enough. So I'm curious how you see people dealing with these things. Are people medicating or are we addicted to our phones and the technology more than drugs? I mean, I know for teenagers, like rates of drinking and drug use is.

down and probably because they're just not even being social. They'd rather sit on. Yeah. That's a good. I don't know if it's drugs, but I know for drinking, it's way down because I think people just aren't like back when I was a kid. I wonder what the rates from like marijuana cannabis use are. Yeah.

For the young kids. I would anticipate it growing. Because they're sitting alone in their room like talking about their phone. But also I read some article like months ago in the New York Times and it was a teacher who had been teaching for decades. And she said, like, it's so eerie now in schools because when class gets out, the hallways are silent because people are just on their phones. Nobody is talking.

Oh, my God. Isn't it really? Yeah, we didn't have. Like, can we bring those back? Yeah. Yeah, I used to have one. I'll sneak in, sneak in a little in my locker on break. Yeah.

Oh, my gosh. So, yeah, like, how do you see? people coping with these issues. Yeah, I think definitely the big ones, which I think always have been, is food. You know, that's like it, so it's either food, of course, alcohol. I'm really worried about the cannabis use. I feel like I was all for it being legal and I think it has its purpose, but I'm really worried that people are using it now to check out and not deal with, deal with what's happening and not deal with emotions and learn how to cope with their emotions and a healthy way.

And, yeah, like a lot of my clients, now that it's legal, clients that I would never even imagine, everyone's smoking weed. And I mean, it's just a little concerning to me if you're using it to check out. not give yourself the opportunity to deal with emotions and feel that empowerment and then know like really healthy coping skills what are your thoughts on CBD oh my god I've used CBD for oh my gosh almost almost two years now and I yeah I'm so envious of people like because I'm like that's not a drug but it's just a slippery slope yeah and and a lot of the CBD out there is Not real.

Right. It's really, you know, it's like the green washing that was in the beauty, you know, for beauty products is now with, you know, everyone's trying to make a dollar off of CBD. And a lot of CBD has traces of THC still in it. Yes. Yeah, it's like Aaron was saying. That's the one. Well, it like has to, apparently to work effectively. Am I right on that?

Yeah, yeah. There's. So the one that I use actually has a little, a little bit of THC. It's not enough to feel the effect from that. They just say that they keep it because the other like properties in CBD work better in when it's in conjunction. So I've been using it for a long time and my own therapist actually was using it and like that's where I learned about it. And then she was selling it and it sounds so weird. she was selling it at her practice and but she gave it to her son too that has um ADHD and it was

really working for him so I'm like okay if she gives it to you know her little son that's like six then you know it's safe to use so I tried it out and it was at the time where I was doing a lot of my own work on like depression and anxiety and um a lot of past trauma and um I never you know It was at that time where I thought, okay, maybe I'll give psych meds a try. But after I tried the CBD for a while, I didn't never even have to go on psych med. And I'm not saying everyone will have that experience, but I think that there's so many more things that we can do now before taking a pill. that it's at least worth it to try, try those other other modalities of healing. So I love it.

Do you feel like a lot of people, like, is it usually an exception or a rule that people that end up coming to see you have some kind of unresolved trauma? It seems like everybody has at least a little T trauma in their life. And especially now, like it's more, it's coming out. And I know personally, like, I had a big T trauma, which I've talked about. And it didn't, like, I just shut it down for a lot of years because I didn't. My body just, my brain couldn't handle it after like maybe four years sober. Then it started to come up. But it started, I think, manifesting in health issues.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think so, like you said, like there's little tea. there's big T trauma. But trauma can be anything from, you know, just getting picked on this one time at school. And for you in that moment, at that age, with all the resources that you knew that you could not cope. It was like what happened to you was beyond your ability to cope at the time. So that can really get imprinted in our memory and our physical body as a trauma.

trauma and we stuff it like you say we don't know what else to do with it and we have to keep ourselves safe and then it can get re-triggered later on in life and we don't know why we're having such a strong reaction to what's happening and then when we kind of like i said befriend the emotion and really tap down into the emotion we can start to remember like when did i first remember feeling this way or what's coming up for me and um we can we can begin to remember remember like, okay, it was that time in my life. And then we can learn how to really not get hijacked by the memory. And that's, you know, through neuroscience and learning to relate to it in a different way now that we're much older and we have so much more resources. But I think,

yeah, trauma can be anything from, you know, what I see a lot is just growing up, like what happened in your household, like something that happened that was really scary. Maybe your parents fighting even or, yeah, it can manifest in so many different ways. But I think most people do have some form of trauma. It's just how much it has affected them. So I want to, I want to get to audience questions. Yeah. Just to kind of like close it out, how do we navigate a modern world where we're all, we're human. We're going to have these feelings and we're going to fall victim to some of these. I don't want to say like we're victimized, but like we're going to experience these things at some point in our lives.

So how can we exist in the world today and not getting knocked down by all of this? Yeah. I think learning how to slow down, just slowing down and knowing when, to cut back on your obligations and learning how to tune in to yourself. I always tell people to do like daily check-ins, maybe three times a day, and that what that looks like is you check in with how you're feeling, you identify the feelings with an emotion, and then you ask yourself what needs aren't being met, you know, because it usually goes back to a need isn't being met or something feels out of balance and then making plans to, you know, take care of.

yourself and meet those needs or in the moment or at least later on. So those are the big ones learning to slow down. And also like to add like, you know, like particularly for anxiety. It's really important that, you know, people are listening and are going through anxiety to not like avoid or not do the things that you want to do because you're afraid. or it's way too anxiety provoking because that's really going to keep you stuck and that's what I see happen a lot and that's just like human nature to not you know want to move away from pain you know and you know we want to move towards pleasurable things so um to really know that you can still do the thing you want to do even if you're afraid and yeah yeah that's huge that's such a good one

Are there any practices? I mean, you kind of talked about it before, but there are any, like, anything that the listeners could be doing or incorporating into their lives that you think are, is important to kind of stay balanced. And so you kind of touched on them, but just to round it up. Mm-hmm. Well, I think going back to, like, thinking about life being,

the mind-body spirit and, all of that, thinking about like what feels out of balance for you. And so, you know, that could be incorporating more play into your life and, you know, what makes you feel like a child again. You know, once the last time you laughed or danced or, you know, went out with friends and just were there without your phone and connected. So I think that's a really huge part that's missing for a lot of people is play because we're so focused on work. So, and also I think getting connected to spirituality and that doesn't have to mean a religious affiliation, but how do you feel connected to something outside of yourself? And I know you said that was a big one for you. You know,

it doesn't have to be religious or, you know, what we typically think of as spirituality. But it could be like getting out in nature more and you really, you know, no distractions out in nature by water more. Those are really healing, healing things that are missing. But I'd also say like taking, trying out some of the more like Chinese Eastern practices of healing. So acupuncture, Chinese herbs, sound work, sound baths, and body work even. Those are all really, really great. And I think that they're, well, they're coming more into our Western world, but for a long time they were missing. I don't know if this is included in that, but like meditation has been the most transformative thing of my life.

Like I can't talk about it enough. Do you like to do it in the morning or in a night? I do transcendental meditation. So I do 20 minutes in the morning, 20 minutes in the afternoon. Did you go to their three day? No. Oh, you did. No, my husband, I think, was trying to go.

It was a few months ago, right? Yeah, yeah. They have it every so often. Yeah. Yeah, I love it. I feel like I should get a TM teacher on here to talk about it because I don't, I won't do it justice. But there are so many different kinds, too. It doesn't have to be something structured like that, even though it's not really structured.

But, yeah, just like the philosophy of meditation and mindfulness is. is really accepting the present moment and not trying to change it or feel like we have to change it because there's that pressure that, oh, no, this feels bad. Like, how do I get rid of this? And it's possible because, you know, we don't got time for this. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like we're so busy and we're, like you were saying, like we don't stop moving.

We don't slow down. So how can we even know what's really happening with our thoughts? and ourselves without just taking even just a few minutes to like stop and observe that. Well, I say it's really important to like develop your mindfulness skills by picking, you know, one activity a day. Like just start with that and pick one activity a day to do and be fully there. So that could be like cooking a meal, eating or putting on lotion. or taking a shower or brushing your teeth, pick that, and just be fully present.

Tune into what it feels like in your body. Observe your thoughts, you know, the thoughts are going to be there. I think that's a misconception that people try out meditation and then they're like, it's not for me. I'm not a meditator because I couldn't clear my mind. That's not. Our thoughts are going to come. And it's really being able to observe them, non-judgmentally.

not put a label on them as, oh, no, yeah, that's a bad thought. Or this is, you know, it's just tuning in the body, you know, in the shower or whatever. Tuning into the body, tuning into the breath, and not worrying about what just happened with your fight with your friend or your partner or what you're going to do right after. It's really just being in the here and now and accepting all that's going on in life. radical acceptance. Yes. Yes. Okay. So let's do some questions. This person asks how to navigate the pressure to constantly, in quotes, do the work. How to be more gentle on yourself. This sounds like someone who probably holds themselves to a high standard. So I would say knowing when good enough is good enough and what that looks like for you. And so knowing how much you realistically can do in any given day.

And really that's going to be different for everyone, but getting honest with yourself. I think we put way too much for any given day. And I think, like I say, you can only achieve so many things on your to-do list a day. So, and so being honest with, you know, what is good enough and then allowing yourself permission to rest after you did what you needed to do that day. Or even if you can't get to everything you needed to do that day, still knowing when you can slow down and give yourself permission to rest and just like focus on the things that you are doing instead of. you know, all the things that we, of course, want to grow and achieve and do better with. I think it can be really hard, especially, like, on Instagram. Like, when you're seeing all these new diets and this is how you should do your morning routine,

and then you're thinking about, oh, no, like, I haven't done any of that. And just, just no one good enough is good enough and know that, you know, focusing on what you are doing. And having gratitude for that is going to allow you to be more present and see really what you have achieved. I love that. So we kind of talked about this before, but how do you recover from burnout? Yeah. Well, yeah, that's hard. I think, like I said, trying first to go and see if, like you can, you can.

you know, take care of yourself throughout, like, maybe, you know, company programs. If you work at a company, like, take advantage of if they'll pay for therapy or what have you. But it's also, I think, having really good boundaries with home and work life, which, you know, we touched on. It can be so hard because we can answer our work emails through our phone while we're with our family or at a really important, you know, you know, Christmas morning opening presents and then, you know, you're on your phone and your kid is, you're missing your kid. You know, you're missing out on what your kid's experiencing. So, knowing what your boundaries are with work and home and then sticking to them, like when you're at home, either delete the app on your phone, you know, or just turn off the notifications on your

phone. Like, we can actually do that. We don't have to have every notification coming up. But yeah, the boundaries are going to look different for everyone, but it's important that you just really stick to them and honor your time outside of work. Okay, so this person has struggled with postpartum anxiety and its effects for years now. What is the best way to deal? Well, I haven't worked a lot with mothers, but I do know that postpartum anxiety and depression is like a real thing. So I would say

Yeah, well that could be helpful But I think having an identity Outside of being a mom is really important So, you know, putting yourself in your schedule Just as much as you put all your, you know, The things that you have to do for your kids and your household Really putting yourself first And finding outside support, you know, if they can come in

and take care of the kids for a while, but really nourishing the things that you used to love to do before you were a mom. Because we can have many different roles, and we should really honor all of those identities. Are there supplements that actually help with depression, anxiety, and stress? Hmm. You know, a good supplement that I tell everyone that has anxiety to get is magnesium. It's a mineral that relaxes the body, and they call it, like, nature Xanax. I always recommend that. I think CBD can work with both things, particularly it works well for thought rumination, so the worry thoughts, and that can be in depression and anxiety.

And it also can relax the body and help with pain and perceive pain. other than that there is a lot that I would recommend looking up I don't feel comfortable like because some of them have to you have to make sure that they're not interacting with the things that you're already taking but I will say if you want to find like a Chinese medicine doctor they might be able to really steer you in the right direction or even like a holistic psychiatrist. But magnesium is a big one. This person is having issues with navigating personal questions as a woman in job interviews. She said it's happening a lot.

I wonder what type of personal questions like in terms of like marriage. I don't know. She didn't specify. Yeah, I guess they, I mean, I'm not supposed to, but. I think a lot of people are still asking those questions. Yeah. I don't know about that. I would say,

I would say being really careful about how you answer those. Because, you know, employers are at the end of the day looking out for themselves. And we think that, you know, people are, you know, companies are following, you know, the right policies and being equal and they're not. So if it's in terms of like kids and like, you know, how much, how much like time they, she'll have for the company, I would, I would take care of your own self first and maybe not not be so honest. Like what, what, how is like thinking about like, how can I answer this to protect myself first? Yeah, I mean, that's tricky. I don't think asking about like kids. I mean, is that?

Maybe it's pregnancy. That's not legal. Right? I don't know. I wonder what kind of questions she meant. Yeah, I don't know. Can you, do you have any advice on modern dating? I was just reading about all these, like, I haven't been dating. Obviously, I've been in, like, a long-term relationship for over seven years, but there's, like, this thing called icing. There's ghosting, icing, and there's, disilling and oh my gosh i am i have not heard of these yeah well it's basically it's so easy now for us to just you know get that external validation by talking to someone when we're lonely you know on the on a dating app and feeling really good about ourselves and being hit on and all sorts of ways and okay like you know you see the boost you need yeah and then keep these people hanging and then you know they might be really interested and then you know you're you're

were just there for like a quick confidence boost or self-esteem boost and then you don't ever respond. And so it's really hurting a lot of people. And I mean, I have men. I see men too in my therapy room. And like, you know, women will do these horrible things to them. Like we're doing horrible things to men too. And yeah. So my advice is, you know, it's really hard to be vulnerable, but we do need to take responsibility as adults and learn how to communicate and not treat people like, you know, like just objects and toys to be like thrown around at our dispense. So if you aren't interested in someone, you got to not let them hang. You know, keep them hanging. You got to really be able to communicate like an adult. And I think that's lacking, especially because it's just so easy to

just not respond. I'll just say out of mine. Okay. So, dating's brutal in L.A. Yeah. I'm very grateful every day. We're both in relationships, so. You're in a relationship?

No, y'all both are. One's married and one's in a long relationship. So I can fully relate. He's nodding his head. What are some things that you struggle with? I mean, I've been on and off dating apps for three years. I'm not like an avid, like I swipe through on a daily basis, but that's so true. true. Is that what icing means when you like just stop responding on a dating app? It's so easy to just be like,

oh, I was interested in you until something else came along unmatched. There's always like, you never have to fully commit because there's always going to be something else. And I, I will admit, I've done it to people and it's happened to me a lot too. And my rationale is like, well, we actually don't know each other. So we technically don't owe each other anything. Yeah. And I think that's the rationale that a lot of people hold on to because the amount of people's faces you might see on like a single day if you're like swiping through is you know you're going to forget half of them you're going to forget most of them i think it's the statistic is you only message 30% of the people you match with and you only meet up with like 2% of the people you match with yeah and i'd also like to add i think

it's important that you know with these dating apps there is always the opportunity to look for the next best thing and to think about yeah oh no he didn't he didn't meet this criteria so i'm going to scratch him and you know go find someone else because there's someone else better than him but if we thought about that with you know even our relationships right now like me if i would have like just given up when i saw the first like red sign or you know the first fight or something like yes I could have done that but also like when you get into a relationship with someone you're getting into a relationship with a set of problems that probably aren't going to be resolved and that's just like the statistics on relationships like most of the issues aren't going to be

resolved no one's perfect and I think it's a real a real issue today that people have these high expectations for, you know, meeting their perfect criteria of who they want to date and then anything that comes up, they're like, you know, I can just, I'm not dealing with this. I can go find someone better. And then we don't want to be vulnerable and then we just go to people. And like the, there are reasons for, like, I don't know, the terminology with these apps, but like it's so arbitrary. Like, you have split second to make a decision on. somebody really i mean and it's just like i know that's how it was when i was oh yeah it's like dating apps it's you're all tied down now so you're so lucky i've never been on one you've never been on one

oh yeah you've been in a relationship probably longer than they've been like popular exactly yeah um i think i downloaded one once my first year in my it's even hard it it makes it hard to meet people in real life too because you always know that there's this thing on your phone that can validate you if you're not getting it from the person that's in front of you even if you know that you know that it's never going to come to any fruition. It's just like you said, it's emotional validation. It doesn't necessarily mean you have to meet the person in person. But it makes it I've witnessed because I've been in several relationships since like dating

apps that like come about. And I've witnessed the amount of trust someone has in the commitment of the relationship decline because we all know that there's something else literally a phone away that you could totally reach for if you really needed it. So no, it's like causing a lot of distrust and anger. anxiety. Nice that like my husband is not of this generation because he has no clue he's not even on social media. What's like Tinder? Yeah, exactly. Does he even have a LinkedIn? Does he not have a LinkedIn? No, why would he have a LinkedIn? I don't know. I feel like he doesn't need a LinkedIn. Let's be real. But like,

that's true. But like I feel like he should have one. I don't know. He, I mean, he is so intensely private, first of all. And second of all, like, yeah, why? Why? So does he on? phone loves than never on his phone his only addiction on his phone is the new york times app i'm so not surprised yeah like and he'll do it like before bed we'll be reading and then like he'll pick it up and i'll be like babe put it down because he's like addicted to politics and outrage oh yeah and like for myself too like i love the app too but i can only i set limits with it because like too early in the morning well i read the paper in the morning but at night i just after for a certain point in the day. I just don't. I can't. You've set up such a good morning routine for

yourself. Thank you. Yeah. I do. It's, I'm a ritual person and like I, I just, I know myself and I, I figured out what I need. And like, obviously there are days where I, you know, I kind of like override it. Yeah. But like today, I did that. I kind of came to at 1030, 1045 and was like, oh, Like, what the fuck just happened? But then I, like, lit some sage and some candles. I took a, I, like, took a hot shower really quickly, got in, like, sat down with the candles and the sage, and I meditated for 20 minutes and drank a bunch of water because when I'm dehydrated too, that's some stress to your body. And I was like, okay. And then I took my dog out and threw the ball on the beach.

So, yes, I'm like. Rituals are so important to keeping us grounded. What's your morning routine? Yeah, I love the mornings, actually. So right now I can make my own schedule. So I usually only work the days that I work. I work in the after people's work. After people get off of work.

So I get the mornings. Sometimes I will get up and I always have to take a shower because I just am so stiff from a car accident. So I take a shower and like really loosen up. And I try to like mindfully do all my little activities. like personal hygiene and really just be in that moment try to limit try not to like reach for my phone and just be like sucked into all that right away so try to keep some distance from that sometimes I'll go to Pilates but yeah I like to just have a slow start to my mornings but you know before when I was

working full time at a treatment center they were more rushed but I think the biggest for me is just like focusing on easing into the mornings of focusing mindfully on each task and asking myself how I feel, maybe saying some affirmations if I have more anxiety that day, like, you know, I got this. I have all I need to deal with whatever comes up today. Okay, I have one more question to close it out because I'm curious. You said that you do see men too, and I'm just wondering if they have the same issues. And if, I don't know if you can answer this, but like if they're as affected by like social media as women are. That's kind of a two-part question.

Yeah. So, yeah, I think the work that I do with men is really important because I love seeing men come in and want to learn how to express their emotions. Yeah, I think it's really a changing time in our society. So I see that mostly younger men who are really trying to. trying to say, yeah, we have emotions, too, and we're struggling with self-esteem issues. But, yeah, I think social media affects people, like, the same. And I think for women in particular, it's more of the comparison, like, zooming in on Kylie Jenner's ass and, like, comparing it to yours and, like, all these Instagram models.

There's not a lot of, like, male IG models. Yeah. Well, there is, but. We don't need to talk about them. Yeah, I'm not sure. that men are like comparing they might be but it's i think it's more so with the women women that part but i think for men i they just they just realize well i hear a lot that you know they're following all these like hot girls like the men are following all these hot girls on ig and they're feeling like really

bad because they're like oh well i'll never get her so it is playing on their self-esteem in that way like thinking about like yeah she's hot but I probably will never get someone like that and so they're feeling really bad about that and then the dating apps is really taking a toll on men's like self-worth too well that's encouraging that they're seeking help I was listening to I can't remember what podcast it was I think it was with Gavin Newsome's wife and she was talking about she has a documentary and she was talking about like this toxic masculinity and how boys from a young age are taught like even marketing like women's deodorant and like shampoo is like light and you know flirty whatever and men is like crushing scent odor you know like all these like the words they used to defy and so they're like kind of groomed to be to this masculinity and then if they are feeling these emotions they're not going to talk about them. Exactly. And that probably,

in a lot of people, you know, kind of suppressing that, it's going to show up later. Yeah, and I think what I see is men as they age, you know, they focus on their partner or their wife and they stop putting so much attention to their friendships with other males.

And for a lot of men, they have very few male friends. And I mean, that's for a couple of reasons. I think the reason is like it can be considered like there's still that homophobia of like being really connected to another male. And that's just from society and it feels weird to open up to another male. You know, they like play sports together and they usually don't like have those heart to hearts that women like to do and are, you know, natural at. So there's a lot of loneliness for men these days. So developing relationships as a male and having another male to go to with your emotional side is really important.

I love it. Well, I could keep going. I know. I know. I can be here forever. We didn't even get to really talk about like your Instagram account and what you're doing with that. Do you want to tell everyone like where they can be here forever? find you and what you're doing there.

So you can find me at Mind by Food or Erica Basothorpey.com is my practice's website. We have offices in Sherman Oaks in Pasadena. But yeah, my Instagram was really made for kind of more like a creative outlook on. I really wanted like a space in like the web that is like more inclusive and not just like IG models. and I've always been into baking and cooking and that really was like my first coping skill as a kid and, you know, the first like mindful activity that I ever did when, you know, I never even knew what that stuff was, but it's really like my way to relax. And I've always wanted to like have, have some, like, creative platform to share that with. And, you know, I thought about creating a blog, but I created my Instagram. I'm like lashed here and it's really to showcase like alternative ways to heal.

But now I talk a lot more about mental health and all those difficult conversations. So yeah, it's growing. That's so important what you're doing. And people are going to love this episode. I love this episode. I love this episode. I mean you can edit my brain part. Oh yeah.

Oh, God. Oh, really? It'll sound seamless when it... It's definitely because I didn't have lunch yet. I think I should go. Yeah, I hear you. I did the same thing. I think I should go to Airwant.

You're like the, I wanted to say, like, you're the influencer for salmon because me and my boyfriend eats salmon like four times a week now. And it's all because I remember I used to see like this girl eats salmon every day. She's cut back too, though. Is that good for us? I heard once that. It's like that. I mean. But like good quality salmon has.

Yeah, yeah. I think if it's wild. I think you would have to eat so much of it to get mercury poisoning. I try to keep like a four-ounce serving, not a huge, huge serving. You're fine. I think we can find something wrong with everything nowadays. I think salmon's pretty benign. Yeah.

Yeah. I love my salmon. I should actually see if I can get to air one before I go do my makeup at my dentist's office. It's been a day for you. Yeah, it sounds good lighting, right? Oh, my God. Do you want to say bye? Are we still on air?

Yeah. Well, thank you for having me. It was an honor. I hope there's some good stuff in there for the listeners. Oh, my God. It's so good. Oh, yeah, I love this episode. Thinking like I kind of want to make it a two-parter.

I don't know. I was thinking that you all over talking. Yeah. Sometimes people drop off at like 40 minutes to an hour mark. That's what I was thinking. Yeah. Maybe like a two-parter. Yeah.

I don't want anyone to miss anything that could be really helpful. I feel like I don't need to go to therapy today now because I just learned so much about myself in this conversation. Oh, that makes you really happy. It was nice to connect with you. Free therapy today for everyone who's listening to this. Pretty much. Yeah. All right.

Thank you. Thank you. Bye. He was looking at me like.