Well with Arielle Lorre - 295: Navigating Addiction and Recovery with Hollywood’s Go-To Interventionist, Trevor Shevin

Episode Date: January 31, 2024

Trevor Shevin is the Principal and founder of Sterling Recovery Services, a highly specialized team whose clients suffer a wide variety of serious conditions including alcoholism, drug addiction, eating and mental health disorders, and more. While his services are available to anyone struggling, he is known among top Hollywood agencies and Studios for his work with high profile individuals. He joins the show to discuss his own experience getting sober after working on Wall Street and being directly impacted by 9/11, common misconceptions about substance abuse and recovery, and how he his intervention process works. We also talk about common roadblocks to recovery, overcoming shame and other emotions associated with addiction, how to know if you have a problem, how to help a loved one who is struggling, unique challenges of high profile individuals suffering and more. This episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct, or indirect financial interest in products, or services referred to in this episode.BonCharge: Go to boncharge.com/BLONDE and use coupon code BLONDE to save 15%. Heinekin: abd59ad7-713b-40af-175f-1ec5aa190128Go to HelloNed.com/blonde for 15% off Go to JustThriveHealth.com and use the code BLONDE20 for for 20% off a bottle of Just Thrive Pobiotic and Just CalmGo to trybite.com/BLONDE or use code BLONDE at checkout to get 20% off your first orderProduced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a dear media production. Welcome to the Blond Files podcast. I'm your host, Ariel Lorry, and I'm here to talk all things wellness. From how to achieve optimal health and well-being to the best beauty tips and everything in between, no topic is off limits. I know there's so much information out there, so I'm bringing on expert guests and sharing my own experiences to help you sift through all the wellness stuff without the BS. Enjoy the show.

Hi, everybody. Welcome to. the show. I have been getting a lot of requests for an episode on addiction, sobriety, recovery, all of that. And it's been a minute since I have done one. And I recently was at dinner with a powerful agent in Los Angeles. And he said to me, oh, you have to have this guy Trevor Shevin on. He is the go-to for agencies, studios, whenever somebody's high profile is struggling with either addiction, alcoholism, mental health disorders, eating disorders, and more. So we were introduced that way and we had a phone call before we recorded the episode

and we ended up talking for maybe an hour because we just could relate so much in our own stories because we're both in recovery. And then when I went to New York, we recorded this episode and whether you have personally dealt with alcoholism or addiction or eating disorders or mental health disorders or you know somebody who has or you're not affected in any way, this episode is so fascinating. So Trevor is the principal and founder of Sterling Recovery Services, a highly specialized team whose clients suffer a wide variety of serious conditions, including alcoholism, drug addiction, eating and mental health disorders, and more.

And while his services are available to anyone struggling, and he does give out his personal cell phone number at the end of the show, he is known, as I said, among top Hollywood agencies, studios for his work with high profile individuals. So he joins the show, of course, to discuss his own experience getting sober. He was working on Wall Street. He was directly impacted by 9-11, and he got sober not long after. We talk about common misconceptions about substance abuse. and recovery. We talk about his intervention process, which is really fascinating. We also talk a lot about common roadblocks to recovery, overcoming shame and other emotions that are associated with addiction. We talk about judgment about sobriety. We talk how to know if you have a problem,

how to help somebody who has a problem. We talk about the kind of unforeseen unique challenges of high-profile individuals who are suffering. And, you know, I think that there is this idea that if you have money, if you have resources, it's easier to overcome addiction. But that isn't always the case. Sometimes there are more enablers. And as anybody who has been through addiction knows, it's really hard to get sober when you don't hit rock bottom. And if you have a lot of people around you who are enabling you and keeping you from hitting rock bottom, it can actually be incredibly detrimental. Of course, there is a benefit to having resources to pay for, you know, rehab or whatnot, but it isn't always a good thing. And we do talk about how, you know, addiction, alcoholism,

whatever you want to call it, really doesn't discriminate. So anyway, I think you guys will really be fascinated by this episode and you will love Trevor. So please enjoy Trevor Shevin. All right. Welcome, Trevor. Hi, how are you? Good. How are you? Good. Thank you. It's good to be here. We met through a mutual friend. Yeah. And we had a conversation on the phone just talking about potentially doing the podcast. And we ended up talking for like, I don't know, an hour and a half. Yeah.

I think we speak the same language a little bit. We have similar but different life experiences. And I think what you do is so important and so fascinating. And I know that the topic of sobriety seems more relevant year after year. I don't know how it is in your industry, but. Just from the feedback that I get from my audience, it seems like more people are struggling or more people are being honest about their struggles. And I think also sobriety is kind of having a moment in some places. So we're going to talk about all of that. But why don't you tell the audience

a little bit about what it is that you do? Sure. Sure. You know, I'll self-disclose. I am in recovery myself and I've been in for quite some time. I hope you don't hold against me, but I used to work on Wall Street. I have an MBA. Also recovering Wall Street. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Just a quick backdrop, you know, I grew up in, you know, what seemed like, you know, a great town outside of Manhattan, in Westchester County. I did well in school, did well in sports, played sports through college, got my MBA, worked at some, you know, very well-known Wall Street firms and a hedge fund. And things look great on paper. Underneath all that, like there's a lot of trauma in childhood, things growing up in the household. And so from a young age, I sort of always felt a little bit

low self-esteem and sometimes anxiety, depression, but put these masks on to try and protect me from feeling so vulnerable in the world. I think it was Einstein who said, you know, we, we all ask ourselves at some point if the world is safe, whether we do it, you know, whether aware consciously or subconsciously. And I knew from a young age or I felt it wasn't. And so what happened, you know, I lived in the city for a long time working on Wall Street. When I was 29, I was actually at the World Trade Center when 9-11 happened. So it was another big T trauma for me that reinforced that the world's not safe. I was what you call very high functioning, I guess, on the outside, but inside, like, it was not cool. So I was lucky as some people, you know, essentially kind of intervene on me

in my early 30s. And it was a huge moment for me where like life really shifted in a meaningful way. I got very engaged in different modalities and therapy and whatnot. I wound up finding this whole new blueprint on how to live life, which has been amazing for me. So much so that in getting to sort of what I do, you know, a few years into that had this sort of existential moment of, you know, what am I going to do with my life? I was really unhappy working on Wall Street. It was sort of a square peg in a round hole feeling. And I loved helping people, you know. And I found, you know, the last place I thought I'd find peace of mind is, like, essentially

being of service to other people. And I found that very rewarding. And so, you know, I decided to go back to school. I didn't know if I was going to try and become a clinician, hang up a shingle in Manhattan. One thing led to another. I became a certified interventionist and started doing what's called clinical intensive case management. And all those masks, like, you know, the 9-11 survivor, the ex-athlete, the NBA Wall Street guy,

all those things I had to take off to get back to my authentic self. I actually had a silver lining in that when I got into the industry, I guess I was sort of a unicorn with my background. So I got a lot of really cool opportunities. And, you know, fast forward to today. I was in the field for a while, partners with different people. I had sort of my own vision of how I wanted to do things. Back in 2016, I left a partnership and started my own company called Sterling Recovery. And we don't advertise or market ourselves.

It's all referrals. but we work a lot in many different facets. But I think what I'm known for is an interventionist. I don't love the word interventionist because of the associations people have with it on TV, all the drama. What I find interesting is, you know, the average person who struggles with addiction, mental health issues, and we do all sorts of interventions. Actually, has a higher IQ than the average person who doesn't.

It has nothing to do with how intelligent we may or may not be. We tend to be a little bit sensitive, find these maladaptive coping mechanisms, which get us into trouble over time. And so what I found is intervening is really just helping raise someone's bottom without them having to go all the way downhill and getting them on the right track. And then we do a lot of work with ongoing care and helping people through their recovery process, you know, whether it's mental health, substance abuse, eating disorders or whatnot. And I do a lot of work with different companies.

So ironically, companies I worked at sometimes hire me now, which is kind of fun. because if they knew what was going on back then, they might not, you know, that's, that's well in the past, thank God. And so that's kind of what we do in a nutshell. I think it's probably helpful for at least one person listening to hear that you were high functioning. Because I think one of the common misconceptions or stigmas around addiction, alcoholism, whatever you want to call it, is that somebody, you know, is homeless or jobless or whatever the case may be. And I've always been really open on my show about my bottom. I was a really low bottom. And I'm so grateful for that because, you know, we have a saying gift of desperation.

I had the gift of desperation. I had nowhere else to go except for the path that I went. And so therefore I was willing to take it. But I think what a lot of people struggle with is feeling like, well, I have a job. I have money in the bank. I have a partner. I might, they have kids, whatever it is. and it's just the behavior and it might be kind of the emotional bankruptcy or the spiritual

bankruptcy that's gnawing at them. I always admire people who get help and get sober when they're in that position because that seems so much harder. So how do you work with people like that? And can I just say, you're kind of like a celebrity interventionist, right? The guy that introduced us said you're the guy that they call when somebody in, you know, entertainment is in trouble. And I would imagine and that those are often really high functioning people too. And yet we know there's so many celebrities in the public eye who not only struggle, but, you know, die from this disease. Sure.

So how do you go about raising somebody's bottom and working with somebody like that? So it's tricky. Every case is a little bit different. Sometimes what I find, and I don't think there's any maliciousness to it, but when you look at someone who needs to be intervened on, I look at it's a, you know, a little bit of a classroom, but like, who are the stakeholders? Is the family members?

Is it their agent? Is it, you know, whoever it might be? And getting everybody on board is important. And there can be, in a way, like a subconscious attachment to someone not being completely well because you can feel like you can control them better, right? Especially some of the celebrities that have big personalities. So I remember learning, not to interrupt, but something about the family dynamic is to maintain the status quo, even if the status quo is dysfunctional.

100% yeah so you know um there's a saying i've heard that you know people struggle with addiction like to go to the source of pain looking for comfort and and that can not just be whatever you know a drink or a drug or food or gambling or you know sex addiction but you know relationships and and exactly what you're talking about to me like it's important how to how i define a bottom because you'll hear many different ways of viewing that is when the notion of intanning that is when the notion of continuing on life the way you've been living seems more daunting than any other way. When I say raise someone's bottom, I think someone needs to fully, whether they're down and out and homeless or you know, have resources to be able to, you know, mask a lot of what's going on. For me, it was

internally like, I mean, I don't want to overshare, but like, you know, there were times where if I was walking on the street and a bus hit me, worse things could happen. Like I was in a bad place emotionally, you know, you might not think so, you know, just just looking at me from the outside. Oftentimes I'll bring in, you know, people who they really respect, who they like, who are really concerned, and bring in a very loving, I don't believe in shaming or blaming, but in a very loving way, it's the most effective way to open someone's heart to understand that it's time to try things a little bit differently. I've never done an intervention where I haven't needed a box of Kleenex. Like, you know, it's, uh, it's very emotional and it's very rewarding in that

awareness, things that we've been stuffing down, associating from and coming from a place where not only are we going to essentially petition them to get help, but really present an amazing solution. Because when you're in that spot, if you're an alcoholic, you know, like if you felt the way I felt you would drink like I do too, if you've been through my, you know, like that kind of notion goes on. And so the thought, of living life without that ability to anesthetize. The alcohol, the drug, whatever that coping mechanism is, is really a manifestation of what's going underneath.

I come from a very trauma-centric underneath and anything along the mental health spectrum, you know, from anxiety, depression, all the way through personality disorders, antisocial personality disorders, you name it. But the drinking or the drugging in that case, it's really just a manifestation. So when you start addressing what's going on underneath and it resonates with them,

a light bulb can go off. And that's when the magic starts to happen. So not everyone needs to wind up in, as they say, jail is institution or God forbid that. And that's why I love what I do. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I know by now you guys have seen me posting my infrared sauna blanket on Instagram. This is by far my favorite wellness product that I incorporated into my routine.

at the end of last year. So I will tell you why I love it in a second, but let me just tell you a little bit about bond charge. So it is a holistic wellness brand with a huge range of evidence-based, so important products to optimize your life in every way. Founded on science and inspired by nature, all bond charge products adopt ancestral ways of living in our modern day world. So their extensive range of premium wellness products help you to sleep better, perform better, have more energy, recover faster, balance hormones, reduce inflammation. The list is endless and pretty much everything that we are all trying to do. So from blue light glasses to red light therapy to to EMF management and circadian friendly lighting bond charge products help you naturally address

the issues of our modern day way of life really effortlessly and with maximum impact. So if you are wanting to burn more calories to help with your weight management, if you're looking to detoxify your body. If you are looking to ease, stress, and unwind, if you want to get that glowy post-sweat skin, then look no further than the bond charge infrared sauna blanket. So it works by raising your heart rate to that of physical exercise. So it burns calories while you relax. You can actually burn up to 600 calories in just one session. And then, of course, sweating helps flush out heavy metals and other toxins, and it works by using infrared light, which heats the body directly rather than the air around you like a traditional sauna. This is one of the reasons why I love

this sauna blanket so much. When I go in a traditional sauna, I feel like I'm overheating. I have to step out to catch my breath. It dries my eyes out. It's just not practical for me. And it takes a lot of time. So with the infrared sauna blanket, I can do it while I'm reading a book or doing some work or watching TV, listening to a podcast. I can totally multitask. And it doesn't feel like you have that suffocating feeling of being a traditional sauna. And it also provides the same benefits at a lower heat. Aside from that, it is so easy to set up. You can put it anywhere. I have mine on my bed. I know that that sounds gross, but it's like a sleeping blanket. The sweat. doesn't get anywhere else. And then when you're done, you just wipe it down with a damp cloth.

And it's also low EMF. That's something that a lot of people asked me about. It's got higher temperatures compared to other brands. It's so simple and quick to set up and really easy to store. So go to bondcharge.com slash blonde and use the coupon code blonde to save 15%. That's B-O-N-C-H-A-R-G-E.com slash blonde and use the code blonde to save 15%. Let's base it. Life can be stressful. It can be overwhelming and it's not just your mind that suffers when you are feeling tense and anxious. I'm sure we all have experience with this, but stress can also make a mess of your digestion

and even your immune system too. But here is the thing. Your life does not have to be a constant downpour. So with Just Calm, the breakthrough new stress soothing formula from, Just Thrive, you can say goodbye to frazzled nerves and hello to a steady, serene, more relaxed you. JustCom's proprietary moodlifting blend is clinically proven to help you relax and breathe a little easier in as little as four weeks.

And then for next level mood TLC, of course, I love my Just Thrive probiotic. So this is a spore probiotic that banishes bloat and constipation. So your gut can produce more serotonin, which is your happy hormone. Plus it supports better sleep. can wake up feeling refreshed and revitalized. So with Just Calm and Just Thrive probiotic, you basically have the ultimate stress fighting duo to help you win the day every day. And right now when you go to Just Thrivehealth.com and use the promo code Blonde 20, you can get 20% off a 90 day bottle of Just Thrive probiotic and Just Calm. So that's like getting a month for free. Also, a portion of every

purchase goes to Vitamin Angels. It's a nonprofit organization that saves the lives of millions of children and moms to be around the world by ensuring that they get the vitamins and minerals they need to stay healthy and strong. So if you guys want to learn more about this groundbreaking company, don't miss my episodes that I did with Tina Anderson. You can go back and just search Tina Anderson. You'll see a couple episodes pop up. The most recent one was last spring. So we definitely need to update that. But it's so fascinating. We really get into the nitty gritty of how our gut health influences our overall health. It is not just an isolated system in the body. It's so important to take care of your gut. So again, you can go to just thrivehealth.com, use the promo code

blonde 20, and you'll get 20% off a 90-day bottle of Just Thrive probiotic and Just Calm. I would imagine that there has to be so much finesse involved. Yeah. Because, you know, to your point, that's somebody's coping mechanism. And I hear so many people. people in recovery say, you know, thank God I was an alcoholic because it kept me alive long enough, you know, to deal with the, or they weren't dealing with it, they were numbing whatever was driving the behavior. And then in sobriety, they were able to address that, you know, people say and trigger warning everybody that their addiction or their alcoholism kept them from killing themselves. And I just know from my own experience, like, when I took my first drink when I was 1617, I don't

remember. Instantly, it was my solution to life because all of the things that I had been feeling, the discomfort, the noise in my head, the less than, the you're thinking this, and all of that went away. That continued to be my solution for 10 years. And so anybody who tried to come between me and that was like enemy number one. And, you know, I was ultimately intervened on, but I think I told you about that experience. They didn't even really have to do much because they got to my door. I opened the door and I dropped and had a grandma seizure. So that was the intervention. And I always say like I was struck sober in that moment, I think. Because from that point on, like I haven't, thank God had the desire to drink or use. But then I found, you know, like you said,

a design for living that has helped me continue that. But I would imagine it's just so high stress. So how do you plan for an intervention? Do you go in with a plan of like, okay, we're going to get on the plane. We have tickets. You don't want to give them any lag time. You have rehabs chosen. Is their family prepared leading up to this? What does that look like? So that's a great question. I'll do my best to answer because like I said, every case is a little bit different. And there's an overuse term like, you know, we want to meet someone where they're at. Also, you know, yeah, we want to have. have a desired outcome because if some people I think will comment to me and they said oh we intervened on you know our loved one or dad or so if if I were to go and approach them and address them without a solution they might you know by the way like to what you said we're unbelievable manipulators when we're in our addiction I hate the phrase you know how do you tell when an alcoholic or notic is lying like their mouth is moving but like there's some truth to that because we're so hypervigilant I mean

And that's really what got to me too, was, you know, I got involved with alcohol and drugs too, and I used the drugs to balance out some of the drinking, you know, and so it's exhausting. By default, like, you know, we're living at least a double life, if not a triple or quadruple life, you know, and we have to keep everything straight, plus, you know, we're not straight, you know. And so it can be really, really overwhelming. So having a good plan in place, you know, there are so many different treatment centers in the year. Last I heard, there's over 14,000 different options in the U.S., which is kind of absurd. And of that, you know, there's about 50 or so, and I'm sure there's more of that I really like.

And I'm being in the field long enough, and I have amazing colleagues. Like, I keep my world kind of small, but, you know, I feel like in some ways Wall Street followed me into the industry, and now you see all these companies popping up. So I kind of try and keep things a little bit simple with that and go with, you know, whoever's got good, you know, outcomes and efficacy. see. Your question was, you know, as far as... The preparation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With the family and on your end.

So, yeah, oftentimes I do use letters. The reason why I use letters is because this is extremely emotional. And if someone initially is a little combative, they're going to want to create chaos, right? So they're going to be like, you know, you're here for me. What about you? And so everyone's really, really well coached. We do a bunch of meetings. There's like, I don't like kind of come in on my high horse, pick someone up on my back,

and take them out. Like, there's so much planning that goes into an intervention, get meetings in person or Zoom's, and then always doing a what I call rehearsal, usually the day before we're up close to it. The letters that I use, they're usually broken down into three parts. And the most important part,

let's say they're on average about two pages, is the first part, which is the majority of the letters, everything you love about the person. One is we want to disarm them because they might be a little defensive. and two, we want to remind them who they really are, where they might have gotten lost along the way. The second part of the letter is more of what I call that.

However, you know, however, things haven't been this way for some time. And then without shaming or blaming, but like putting things in most importantly, like how it makes me feel like when you, very generic, when you drive drunk or while intoxicated, it terrifies me the thought of you hurting someone or yourself or wanting, you know. And so we're in a very loving way, bringing that to the surface. And then we've brought in a professional here to help us figure out a solution and we leave it vague. So everyone's really well coached.

Everyone knows it's defer to me to, you know, we want to eliminate chaos. We want to eliminate egos getting in the way. And everyone's coming from a lot of fear. So there's a lot of prep work making sure that everyone is as comfortable as possible because when you're in that space and you're getting intervened on, you're, you know, you're very aware of, you know, you're feeling everything. So I had a little bit of that when you were saying how the letters broken down. Yeah. Because I remember that not from my intervention, but from parents weeks at all the various rehabs that I went to, you know, where my brother and my parents would come and read very similar things like that.

And the shame. And it's not meant to shame. No. But the shame that an addict or alcoholic afflicted individual, whatever you want to call it, whatever they're dealing with. is so overwhelming. And I think that that perpetuates the cycle of the drinking and the using of experience that. Yeah. So recovery and it's in and of itself for me like I what I was constantly living in outcomes and results like even like my own way, people pleasing, making sure that everything was okay. Shame. I learned early on that shame is like, you know, guilt is feeling bad

about something specifically I may have done, shame is feeling bad about who I am as a person. And like the shame, I've never met anyone who needs, who's come into recovery, who isn't riddled with shame. And it's the worst. And so, you know, going back to the source of pain looking for comfort, if I'm triggered, usually it's like my shame button is getting pushed and I just want to quiet it down. And so, yeah, you're absolutely right. There's, it's really important to come from a place of compassion. One of my, my teachers, when I went back to school, use the term instead of confrontation, care confrontation. And that really struck out, Dr. Harris-Stradner,

that really resonated with me. And so, you know, that to me is the approach I try and take. And my outcomes, I think the reason why I get these high profile, you know, the Wall Street CEOs, I mean, we work with everyone. Don't get me wrong, but in celebrities, is we have very good outcomes and results because we're coming from the right place. and we're coming from a place of integrity and we're really you know I think the person feels that very much in their heart and someone who like to your earlier question like who can be challenging

and very enabled just based on who they are and what they do feels that and and they feel that sincerity and they yearn for that and so light usually will go on and they're willing to kind of take my hand and come with me and so that's it's super rewarding it's very cool when you see that happen as I'm sure you know yeah yeah yeah. self-disclosed because I would imagine that a lot of people who are in the position of being intervened on have some of those stigmas, misconceptions, whatever in their head. And I mean, I know from experience, you know, one alcoholic orotic talking to another can help to kind of overcome that. So do you self-disclose in that moment or do you wait or do you not at all?

No, I often, I actually often do because, you know, I'm working with my niche has seemed to be based on my background, like high functioning, either individuals or families with someone who's, you know, not maybe potentially high functioning, but the family seems to be in that space. And so we're taught in school not to self-disclose, but, you know, if someone's going to judge me for that, then that's on them, you know. And because exactly to what you said, like when someone's in that space and, you know, that was the one thing. It was the solution was in this case, you know, drinking or whatever it is that you're doing. Life seems over. Like I identified exactly with what you said. Like when I put that in my system, like all the noise went down. I had a sense of belonging.

Like I could socialize a little bit. I mean, it started off really with good intentions and, you know, then consequences start building. And obviously I'm here and you're here for. reason. It didn't work out so well in the end. But I do often do that because, you know, I also have, you know, a lot of time in recovery now. And hopefully I'm seen as someone who is living life to the fullest, maybe a power of example, and something that's attractive as opposed to thinking it's going to be, you know, awful. Yeah. I'll just leave it at that and you fill in whatever that cartoon looks like. Yeah. That's why I talk about it too. I mean, I think on the one hand,

it would be so dishonest of me to share about the triumphs and the challenges of my life without talking about sobriety, which is the absolute foundation that my life is built upon, but also like 10 years ago when I got sober, I didn't know of any women who were living a life that seemed attractive to me who were sober. First of all, I didn't know where to go to find them. But, you know, there wasn't really social media back then or social media was like just starting. But I thought that getting sober was the end of my life and that it was going to be so boring. Not that drinking and using was very much fun at the end there either.

Drinking alone, drinking in the morning, having seizures, rinse repeat. I mean, but I think it's important to whatever any individual is comfortable with. But I think it's important to show that sobriety can not only be fun. It's so fulfilling. And I think it's like a super power. That's so funny. And it is. And I'm so glad that you feel comfortable disclosing and being, you know, a power of example.

But you'd be amazed. Maybe you wouldn't be amazed who steps in front of my office or whose homes I've been in. Like, I once heard the term. It's an equal opportunity destroyer. Right. So, you know, the stigma has definitely come down quite a bit over the years. It's like some people think it's cool. A lot of people think it's cool.

And people are, was it sober curious and doing. like different things like that, which to me is amazing. And it's, it's interesting when I'm, you know, if I'm at a dinner and I'm not disclosing, you know, just a regular dinner and, you know, was like some wine or wedding? I'm like, no, I don't drink. You know, people like, almost, I think almost admire that. Like, oh, you don't drink? You know, it's like, no, I'm good. You know, and I think that's so important for people to hear because I have a lot of listeners who are wanting to explore sobriety, but they're so afraid of being judged by their friend group or their coworkers or whoever it is if they're not drinking when they go out. And some of them

send me messages and say, you know, I went out and my friends were pressuring me. And so I think every situation is different because like you, I don't think anybody has ever asked me why I'm not drinking. Yeah. You know? Since we are talking about sobriety and recovery in this episode and even just being sober curious or doing dry January, one of the questions that comes up a lot from people who message me is about what do you drink when you're out? And I know that a lot of people feel like they want to have an alcohol-free alternative that isn't just water. So with Heineken zero-zero, you can get an alcohol-free option of the original Heineken that you love. So it has 100% of the taste, but 0.0% alcohol. So that means it's perfect for all of the times where you

would like a beer, but cannot have the alcohol. So if you have a working lunch with an afternoon presentation, now you can if you're giving up alcohol for dry January, but you don't want to give up that feeling of drinking. Now you can. Post-workout drinks, now you can. If you have a Friday night birthday party to go to, but you have an early morning workout class, now you can. Heineken, 0.0, again, has 100% of the taste, 0.0% alcohol. It has only 69 calories. So you can click the link in the podcast description to buy now. be 21 plus to purchase. Please enjoy Heineken responsibly. I have a bone to pick with traditional toothpaste, okay? And I'm going to tell you why. First of all, did you know that you swallow

5 to 7% of toothpaste every time you brush your teeth? That's like an entire blob of toothpaste every seven days. Also, most commercial toothpaste are filled with harsh chemicals, artificial flavors, and preservatives. So not stuff that you would want to be putting in your mouth, let alone eating blobs of. And also, they can be really wasteful and not good for the planet. So we are moving on from all of that in 2024. This is why bite makes dry toothpaste tablets made with clean ingredients that are sulfate-free, palm oil-free, and glycerin-free. Bight toothpaste bits are so convenient. You just pop a bit in your mouth, you chew it up, and then you start brushing. So it will turn to paste just like you're used to, but with no plastic tube and no

messy paste and I have to say when I first used it I didn't really know what to expect but now I absolutely love it my mouth feels so clean they also come in these refillable glass jars they send refills in compostable pouches so they're better for our bodies and for the earth no more plastic toothpaste tubes and the sleek glass bottles and jars just look amazing on your vanity they're very aesthetic so they elevate your shelfy game there's no hiding gooey plastic tubes here. So Byte is offering my listeners 20% off your first order. Go to trybite.com slash blonde or use the code blonde at checkout to claim this deal. That's t-R-Y-B-I-T-E.com slash blonde. Let's talk about like maybe not the full-blown alcoholic or addict. If somebody is starting to feel like maybe

it's not serving them, but they're not sure if they have a problem or not, what would be your recommendation for them. You know, that's interesting because if you have, you know, there's a call it a controversy between, is this a disease or not disease? I mean, no one, no one when they're five years old, you know, raises their hand and says, hey, guess what, mom, dad, I can't wait to have issues and have you worried about me, whatever it is. But, you know, I think it's really important. I know for me, there are many lines in the sand that I didn't think I'd ever cross that I wound up doing like places I wound up or you know who I was hanging out with and all that kind of stuff so I think

it's really important when you are clear-headed in that space to like say okay what what would indicate that I have an issue or not then to and say like commit to something like for the next 30 or 90 days I'm not drinking and and how challenging is that for you you know it becomes very problematic like we said it's a coping mechanism so if when stressors happen when things happen you know you kind get a sense of like I need a drink or if you do have a drink how far down the rabbit hole do you go or if you commit to say like I'll have two or three drinks two nights a week and that's it you know and you just can't do that chances are it's problematic you know and you might want to look into like what's going on

underneath there's two sort of macro levels of looking at there's sort of the abstinence-based model of like just not drinking or drugging or anything at all and then there's what's called the harm reduction now I I know for me, when I was active in my addiction, if you presented something where I could drink like a gentleman, whatever that means, like, I'm going for that. But I also know, like, I probably would have personally struggled with that. The saying, if I'm enjoying my drinking, I'm not controlling it. And if I'm controlling my drinking, I'm not enjoying it. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, they're not congruent. So, yeah, looking at it from, from that lens and being true to yourself, you know,

I'm not a cookie cutter type of person and I don't want and you know anyone to feel like well if I'm concerned is that mean that I'm going to be judged or forced down you know you really have to figure it out for yourself and a lot of it's self-reflection like I said it's what makes me have issues with addiction isn't the substance itself it's how I think when I'm not using the substance right so like a lot of fear a lot of anxiety a lot of like self-consciousness and like you mentioned the noise in my head that can get pretty, you know, uncomfortable and loud where I want to just quiet it down. Like, what's the next painkiller? Be food. It could be anything, you know. And so how am I aware of that? And then what to do with that? Because it is a big decision. And that thought of having to be,

you know, the caricature of like someone being homeless with a brown bag, having to be what an alcoholic is. Such a misnomer. And it's unbelievable. You know, so obviously that that exists. But, you know, That's not what, you know, it doesn't need to be what you need to hit in order to decide to make a change. Yeah. There were a few things that I liked that you said. Definitely the lines in the sand. Yeah. I crossed all of those.

I kept drawing new ones and then crossing them. And it just made me think of your actions not aligning with your values. Yeah. I think that that's something to pay attention to. I love that. That's a great. I might steal that. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I think another one is like once you start, can you stop? because I know for myself, I could never tell you, there were nights where I could drink two glasses of wine at dinner like a lady and go home and that was it. And that's what was kind of insidious because I would go through these phases where I was like, oh yeah, I'm like, I got this. And then inevitably there's that night where I start and I say I'm going to have one drink and go home at 11 and it's three days later and I'm like in a different state. You know? So I couldn't like safely

predict like when or how I was going to stop and where it was going to take me. Yeah, that's a great point. And that's what's so tricky about it. It's like, well, you know, if I was at a work event or, you know, there were sort of guardrails around me, I was fine, you know. But if you can't predict what you said when that time is going to happen where, you know, three days later or chaos or you're blacked out and like, what did I do? You have to look at your phone to see what you, you know, know and retrace, you know, it's a horrible feeling. And so that is probably a good indicator that there might be an issue. And I think just redefining many things when I got into recovery, I had to redefine like words in particular that I had issues with, you know, first starting

with what does it mean? It's really just the inability to, in this case, you know, if you're talking drinking like drink safely without there being consequences that may or may not, you know, come. But it's something that only I know this only no matter how I approach someone or you know only I can decide for myself only you can decide for yourself but it certainly doesn't hurt to have people who really care about you approach you and and hopefully in a loving way kind of put a little bit of a mirror out there knowing that you know there's another way to go about this you know yeah that's a good segue because that was kind of my next question I also get a lot of messages from people who have loved ones who are struggling, whether they are married and, you know, they're kind of in and out of rehab,

or they haven't accepted help yet, or they are now maybe in a program and they're trying to get sober and getting help, and the partner wants to know how to best support them. What is your advice? Each case is a little bit different. There are wonderful self-help like programs out there. A lot of people like the program Al-Anon, which is sort of a sister program of Alcoholics Anonymous, but because oftentimes you'll hear the word codependency used, right? And codependency, I mean, we think of it in terms of like words usually come to mind. When if I ask like someone who's engaging with me, like, what does codependent mean to you? And they'll say like enabling or, you know, which is true. But it's almost like clinically, like if you think of like a pilot and a

co-pilot. The person has the issue being the pilot, whether you're enabling or not, you're the codependent, you're in relationship with that person. And so how do you learn to navigate through that? So I think, you know, seeking professional advice, whether through someone like me or finding, you know, a therapist who's either specializes or certainly is well-versed in addiction, things along those lines. If you know of other families that have had issues but seem to be on the other side of that, seeing what they did. But, you know, just getting very curious and out there because there's so much shame and, like, there's a propensity to want to just not, you know, not let them know my wife or my husband

or my whoever is, is having an issue. Because of that, like, some people can really stay stuck in that and it gets worse and worse. And so, you know, I've been pretty, I say it in a loving way, but like I've talked to moms who are like, you know, like, knowing what you know right now through all this education, we just did, everything you just shared with me, your maternal instinct just want to make things as soft for your kid as possible, you know, or whoever it might be. And it's almost malpractice. As a parent, it's paradoxical, you know, because they, either you have to let them experience their bottom or try and get them help in the right way, but it's super tricky. And there's a lot of

guilt that one can feel, you know, what was my part in them going down this, you know, you know, divorced parents, things like that that come up that can be very tricky to help someone normalize, you know. And usually what I'll say is like, look, many people have had divorced parents. People have been through hell torture that don't necessarily go to alcohol or drugs. So I don't think what happened with you necessarily made so-and-so, you know, have that issue and you have to understand, like that was in them. It's just manifesting right now. Yeah. And then a different example like myself is I didn't have any trauma when I was younger. Definitely along the way during my addiction, but, you know, nobody in my family with alcoholism or addiction,

no obvious contributing factors other than maybe I'm just chemically a little bit different. For sure. I am probably more sensitive, you know, there were things like that. I was so grateful. My parents did not find Al-Anon until I finally got sober. But they, you know, they did their own therapy and I was in and out of rehabs and they would come to family weeks and they would try to learn and they tried to hold their boundaries and I was a manipulative little shit like we are. I mean, I knew how to manipulate, you know?

I was like very scrappy resourceful. I don't know that it would have made a difference because I was so like I was going to do what I was going to do and I was going to find a way to do it no matter what. And I was able to use those resources like wherever they came from. Well, it's like you said it and then it turns into a superpower when you get into recovery. Yes. Because like you have all these innate talents and gifts. And now like for me, like I'm so grateful to be in recovery because all the stuff I went through, you know, I was talking before we started. Like the best gifts often come in poorly wrapped packages.

Like my history, all that stuff I went through allows me to be here talking to you. Hopefully one person who hears this. It helps them in some way. being able to connect with someone and have them, like I said, see the light when it goes on. It's the most beautiful thing and rewarding thing for me. But it's because it's so incredible to see that happen. And so it is a superpower. And it's like, you know, you'll hear people, you know, using your evil for good, whatever.

But yeah, like I had to be very savvy about when I was active. Like, I would see a therapist. I would pay cash because I was nervous that the bank I worked for would somehow catch. Like it was crazy the way I was living, you know, like, Like, you know, that's nothing compared to how crazy it was. But like just stuff like that all the time being mindful of that. And so, yeah, when you find that new way of living, that design for living, you talk about the blueprint for life that I, you know, how to get present,

how to not be in constant, you know, fear of what's going to come or shame or regret of the past, but to be here, like right now to be able to communicate with you and this is where we are. That is magical. And that's everything I look for in anything. a bottle and a pill and a baggie, whatever, I wound up actually finding in recovery, but, you know, everyone has their own sort of journey towards that. I love that saying and I've heard that sentiment a lot in recovery and I feel that too. You know, I really feel like I felt everything that I was looking for in the drugs and alcohol, but also that community, that connection, you know, I couldn't

connect to other people. That was a big part of my drinking and my racing. And I found that. in recovery. It's a beautiful thing. And it's not, I think one of the stigmas is that, you know, you stop drinking or using and you're white knuckling and just fighting every day to overcome that craving and not drink and use. And, you know, I think people do have cravings and things in the beginning, especially here and there, but for the most part, you know, really about like what you're saying, like how to be mindful, how to live in the present, how to handle life on life's terms. And I had a doctor on my podcast yesterday, Sue Varma. I don't know if you're familiar with her.

She's a new book coming out on practical optimism. Oh, cool. But she used to work with people who were affected by 9-11. And she studied like stress and trauma. Yeah. And a lot of her concepts I said to her before we started recording are very aligned with the principles of recovery and this idea of being of service to other people and having a purpose. Yeah.

And she said, I'm so glad that you picked up. on that. Her dad was a psychiatrist who was like very involved in 12 step. He was an addiction psychiatrist. I just kind of feel like, oh, it's so like, we're so lucky that we get to have access to that. I always say like, I don't know how normal people know how to live life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just like I don't understand it because we have this design. Yeah. For sure. And it's, I love what you said because I've heard the term often, you know, you know, build self-esteem by doing esteemable acts, right? So there's nothing more esteemable than authentically being of service to someone, you know, just altruistically, right? Now, for me,

I've made a living out of it. So there's, you know, I have to come to terms with that, but it is what it is. But like I have a friend who taught me like, you know, once a month, he goes to a restaurant and he'll pick up someone's tab, but he'll make sure the waiter does not let them know, you know, just little things like that to kind of, you know, pass, you know, forward and different ways to be of service all the time come from a kind, loving heart, because it was me versus the world growing up and in a very fear-based way of living. So like, yeah, talk about paradoxes, like being of service to someone, helping someone, giving me, making me feel better, helping my self-esteem, it just didn't make sense until,

you know, and so I can tell with you, you found the same. That's amazing. So funny, like sitting here and talking to you and looking at you, I can't reconcile like the person that's sitting in front of me and whatever you were doing before you got sober, you know, like I think it's so funny when I meet people in sobriety and they're like, yeah, you know, I was ripping lines and Tijuana. And I'm like this like buttoned up person sitting in front of me who just has this like lightness and presence.

Thank you. I just think it's like the coolest thing. Yeah, yeah. I'm glad you didn't know me back then. So likewise, we probably would have partied together. Yeah, I bet. I bet. As you hear us talking about in this episode, a big part of my addiction and my alcoholism was kind of this misguided attempt to self-regulate.

So in my recovery, among all of the things that I do to support my recovery, I make sure that I'm really taking care of my body and getting enough sleep and keeping my body, my nervous system, all of that regulated. And one of my favorite things to help with all of this is magnesium. I've talked about this before, but when I started supplementing with magnesium, I felt like I had found this kind of missing puzzle piece, which is not that unusual because 75% of American adults are actually deficient in magnesium. And it's a mineral that's essential to hundreds of functions in the body. So I love Ned's mellow magnesium. It was designed to basically address the fun.

fundamental imbalances that come with our modern lives. It is a powerful super blend that contains three forms of magnesium. It also has GABA, my favorite, altheonine, my other favorite, amino acids, and over 70 trace minerals. So all of these help to improve sleep, reduce stress, increase energy, elevate your mood, boost the gut microbiome, and strengthen immunity. So Ned's natural alternatives are not here to fix you. They're here to help bring you closer to living the way that nature intended. And I just know for myself, when I have all of those things, when I get a good night's sleep, when I am practicing stress reduction, when I have increased energy and an elevated mood, I feel like I can be my best self, not only for myself, but for all of

the people around me. So become the best version of yourself and get 15% off Ned products with the code blonde. Go to hello ned.com slash blonde or enter the code blonde at checkout. That's H-E-L-L-O n-ed dot com slash blonde to get 15% off. I was curious about this. I think people probably think that celebrity, it's high net worth individuals, high functioning people have an advantage when it comes to, you know, getting help and the resources and all of that. If you ever find that it actually works against them because they have all these resources

that they can just kind of skate by with enablers and whatnot? Yeah. So that's a great question and absolutely and it's really hard in a multitude of ways. But the other thing too is like when it's someone who's high profile or well known or of great means, they can get with special treatment. And a lot of, you know, the part of this is not in a, I don't believe in punitive measures, but ego deflation. Like ego in a clinical sense, meaning fear. If someone's getting special treatment, it feeds into that. It can very much work against someone and understanding those nuances and, you know, getting them to work with the right, even like as if I pair someone up in a treatment center with a certain clinician or therapist,

psychiatrist, if they're in awe of the person, it's not going to go very well. And there can be different things, countertransference and whatnot, where they're projecting stuff on. And yeah, it is on one level, it's, yes, having financial resources, being able to go to, And by the way, there's not like, it's not like some of the best treatment centers in the country are non-profit, like amazing, amazing, amazing recovery. Yeah, for sure. But being able to have the freedom to go somewhere, you know, and have a sense of community. If someone's really like very, very high profile and it's going to become a distraction, it is helpful sometimes to be around like-minded, like-minded people in similar circumstances.

So you're not feeling so judged. And it can sound ostentatious like that, but the reality is I know for many of the people I work with, there's a lot of what's called imposter syndrome where if they only knew how I felt, you know, and how I thought or that this is all a bit of a sham. And being able to identify on that level to always feeling judged, always feeling under the microscope, letting their guard down can be really tricky. And so, yeah, it can be a struggle sometimes finding what's going to be the right fit. And so, you know, everyone's a little bit different on how I approach them and what I think

the right path is going to be for them. But it, you know, it's really cool when it connects and they just let go of all that. But like I mentioned, meeting someone where they're at, like my approach is I never want anyone to feel like I'm pulling them or like pushing them. But, you know, metaphorically, my arm around them walking with them, guiding them and letting them know it's going to be okay but yeah it can it can certainly work against you know especially a special treatment and you know whereas here's here's just a quick example like if a if a patient was saying that they want X you know whatever it might be some certain type of treatment or drug and and the clinician might normally say absolutely not but no this is so and so like I can't say no

you know or what if you know so there's that gut check of not wanting to have who's working with them enable them or some fear around that which is very real precarious yeah yeah and so for me like part of my job is making sure that never happens or if it does it's it's quickly you know corrected yeah so you're working with the treatment centers the treatment teams yeah facilitating everything so involved and making sure that everything is staying on the straight and arrow and then do you also work the families or whoever is in their close circle. Yeah, so that's a great question, and I neglected to mention that before. So if someone's looking for an intervention, it's so important to be with someone who's not,

it's not just the intervening and getting them into treatment, but it's the ongoing engagement, working with that person and the family. I believe the number one reason why people tend to relapse either with, you know, drinking or drugs or even behaviorally are because of the resentments that they have. It's very, very triggering. So working with the family members is as important. Oftentimes, you'll probably laugh when I say this, but oftentimes the families are way sicker than the person who needs help.

Like you said, we found a solution that worked for us for us for a while. It just got bad. And so we're now, the spotlight's on us. But, you know, they're in the same family unit. So it's very important for that ongoing care. And I usually, you know, interventions are probably only like 15% of what I really do. It's more ongoing. I work with some people for a long time and I have a team and an amazing team that helps put together really good scaffolding, especially through their first year.

But that, to me, is critical. It's not necessary to get well, but it's a nice, you know, it works out really well that way. My last question, I guess. I have so many more questions. What are people doing now? This is just my own curiosity. I feel like I missed out on all like the white claws and the pros A's and the microdosing. and the microdosing mushrooms and the edibles.

And I mean, thankfully I missed out also on like the fentanyl because I definitely would be dead right now because I would snort anything anyone put in front of me. But it's like cocaine is back, I hear. Like what are people doing? What are people struggling with? Well, yeah, it's so funny because, yeah,

the white claws and all that as well. I don't mean to make light of this, but sometimes it's nice when it's just an alcoholic. You know, like it seems rare that's, you know, someone's drink or drug of choice is alcohol, but it's sort of old school. There's so many different permutations. The other thing, too, I don't want to sound like I'm on a pulpit, but like with the legalization of marijuana, even before legalization of marijuana, I get a lot of people in

psychosis just from weed, from marijuana. It's amazing. It's not like what it was back in the day. And families from all over the world, I work, you know, not just in the U.S., reaching out to me because the U.S., I believe, has some of the best treatment with people in behavioral health units, aka psych wards, that all just from marijuana. So marijuana has gotten not just, oh, they're lazy or their grades are slacking, but, like, really, it's become much more of a hardcore drug. And probably young people, too, like developing brains. Yep. Yeah.

There's a family in Italy I was working with whose 17-year-old son was in a psych ward waiting for the psychosis. There's no history of substance abuse in the family or mental health issues. This kid was doing the most intense way for like over a year and something just snapped. So that's become pervasive. But yeah, you know, I see it all. Like you mentioned, it seems like, you know, cocaine's a little bit on the rise. Opies, I too.

Like, thank God. I'm in recovery because I don't say this lately. There's no way I would be alive like with what I'm seeing with fentanyl and everything. When you're in that mindset, you're not so discerning. No. Very nice way of putting it. Yeah. So I think I'm seeing a lot of different things, but the thing that's most, oddly enough,

something that seems so harmless growing up has become really egregious with a lot, you know, and it leads to other things too. So there's that. Yeah, and then, you know, ketamines become very popular. Oh, yeah. And it's such a dangerous. Even in sobriety, too, though, right? People using it for depression.

Yeah. I don't mean to, like, air quote, depression. But even when I got sober, I remember when I was in sober living, there were people doing like the ketamine nasal spray from their doctors. Yep. Which I don't know enough about it to have an opinion on it. But it seems like a little bit of a slippery slope, maybe. I'd say if you have an issue.

with addiction. And if ketamine's been a part of your past, like, you know, especially, but even if not, there's a good chance that you might become successful to that. You know, they, you'll hear the term like an allergy, whether it comes alcohol, drugs. And all an allergy means is an abnormal reaction to something going in your body. So like if I was allergic to eating peanuts and I ate peanuts, you know, I'd have that reaction. The allergy referred to an addiction really is more like, like you mentioned, the inability to turn on the off switch or whatever, flip the switch. And so when you get triggered or that's in your system, and it's very effective at first, it's seductive.

And then next thing you know, you're down this rabbit hole and hear story after story. And so, yeah, so there's, like I mentioned, a myriad of different things going on that I'm exposed to. Nothing, I shouldn't say nothing seems to surprise me. But, like, it's, you know, it's amazing what comes across. and who's doing what is kind of surprising too sometimes. You know, again, someone who's in emotional distress or pain or trying to relieve whatever's going on with them, trauma,

looking for whatever is going to be that fix, that painkiller to quiet that down. And so whatever it is. Like an attempt at self-regulation. For sure. They're self-medicating. You know, people, and that's the thing with a stigma that bothers me that, thank God, it's lifting a little bit, but people are hurting. You hear the term sick and suffering, but they're really just wounded, right?

No one is choosing to live that way. Not me, not you. You know, we were wounded. We needed to get well, we needed healing. And so if you're coming across it as like willpower or shame on you, I mean, all you're doing is, you know, most likely going to make them feel worse about themselves and ironically, do more of what's harming them. So it's so important, I believe, to come from that loving approach when you're meeting with someone who has issues with this. Fascinating. Well, I think what you do is so interesting and so important. I could talk about this for hours, but we're out of time. So tell everybody where they can find you. Sure, yeah. So, I mean, I'll just, I'll give my direct cell phone number. I don't mind. Yeah. So, I mean, we have an 800 number.

My company is called Sterling Recovery Services. But if you want to reach me in particular, my cell phone is 9-17, 653-3-3899. I'm more than happy to help, even consult, point you in the right direction, whatever I can do to be of service. So again, you know, 9-17-653-3-38-99. First time anyone's done that on the show. Yeah.

Yeah, no, it's all good. I love that. Thank you so much. You bet. You bet. Thank you. I hope you enjoyed that episode. And if you liked it, and if you like the show in general, please take a second to rate, review, and subscribe. It goes a long way, and it's actually the best way to support the show. Also, if you want to see more about each episode, you can head over to The Blonde Files podcast on Instagram. You can go to Arialori.com, and I'm always posting about each episode over on my personal page at Ariel Lorry.

Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.