Well with Arielle Lorre - 324: Toxic Fitness Culture and Moving from External to Internal Validation with Grace Beverley

Episode Date: June 17, 2024

Grace Beverley is entrepreneur, influencer, podcaster and founder of Tala, Shreddy and The Productivity Method. She’s an Oxford graduate and was placed on Forbes 30 Under 30 by age 23. As an original BBG girl, we chat about toxic fitness culture and what health looks like for her today. We also discuss success at a young age, overcoming adversity, and honest thoughts about entrepreneurship. Grace also shares how and why she’s taken a step back as a content creator, success secrets, how to find your flow state, and what we’ve all got wrong when it comes to feeling fulfilled. Subscribe to Patreon for exclusive weekly content: patreon.com/ArielleLorreGrace’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gracebeverley/?hl=enThis episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct, or indirect financial interest in products, or services referred to in this episode.Visit article.com/BLONDE for $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. Sign up at ro.co/BLONDE to pay $99 for your first month—and $145 a month after that. Go to alomoves.com and use BLONDE30 for an exclusive 30-day free trial, plus 20% off an annual membership. Visit ritual.com/BLONDE for 25% off your first month. Go to boncharge.com/BLONDE and use code BLONDE for 15% off. Produced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Sonderger Go to your Reisadviseur Orsoniccars. The following podcast is A Dear Media Production Welcome to the Blonde Files I'm your host, Ariel Lori, and I'm here to talk all things wellness. From how to achieve optimal

health and well-being to the best beauty tips and everything in between, no topic is off limits. I know there's so much information out there, so I'm bringing on expert guests and sharing my own experiences to help you sift through all the wellness stuff without the BS. Enjoy the show. Hi, everybody. Welcome to the show. Oh my gosh. Was this a full circle? episode for me. I am talking to Grace Beverly. So if I have any OG BBG, that is bikini body guide, people listening right now, then you will probably understand why. When I started my Instagram years ago, I was doing Kayla at Sinez's program, BBG, bikini body guide. It was huge. Back in 2016, 17, around that time. That is how I started my Instagram account. And there were a few women

who were really big in that world. And Grace Beverly was one of them. She was one of the first people that I followed on Instagram. So it was pretty wild to then have her on my show so many years later. So Grace is an entrepreneur. She's an influencer. She's a podcaster. And she is the founder of Tala, Shreddy, and the productivity method.

She is an Oxford graduate and was on Forbes 30 under 30 by the age of 23. So as an original BBG Girl, we chat. about the toxic fitness culture of that time and what help looks like for her today. And then we also talk about her success at such a young age, overcoming adversity, her honest thoughts about entrepreneurship. And she shares how and why she's taken a step back as a content creator. She also shares her success secrets, how to find your flow state, and what we all get wrong when it comes to you feeling fulfilled. This was such an incredible conversation. She is really smart and has really interesting perspective and insight into success and finding your way. So I think that

no matter where you are in life, no matter what you do, you will definitely get something out of this episode. I really love this conversation. So please enjoy Grace Beverly. Welcome, Grace. Thank you. I was just telling you this is very full circle as a former BBG girl to be sitting here with you because you were one of the first people that I followed. There was a group of like big BBG girls. You were one of them. Kelsey Wells was another one. I can't remember the rest.

But it's so crazy to be sitting here with you now that like 2016, I think is around when it was. So like eight years later. Yeah, that is so funny. Like when would that have been? Because I'm trying to think where in like my journey, it would have been that you would have followed me. I started my account in February of 2016.

Okay. As a full BBG account. didn't show my face. I know you didn't either initially. Didn't tell anybody my name. I was the blonde files. Obviously, the name has followed me. And was doing like the pictures of the food and the mirror selfies and hashtag never miss a Monday. Hashtag BBG girls. Hashtag BBG community. So yeah, February 2016, when did you start? So I would have been just a year before. So February 2015, 22nd of February, I still have the date etched in my head. And the reason I have it etched in my head was kind of, because as I was telling you, my entire understanding of exercise was something you did purely for the summer. Like I'm not exaggerating by that. Like I, every single year, I would start working out halfway through February just after my birthday, work out from February to around like May, June. And then I wouldn't. Done. My work here is down.

following year. And I remember the year where I started my Instagram, I obviously got to like June time and I was like, uh-huh, well, what do I do now? Because there are some people here. Like it had got to the, I mean, I would have been a few thousand followers. I thought I was the biggest, the biggest person on Instagram. And I was like, well, I guess I'm going to have to continue working out because otherwise everyone's going to be like, what, this is not what we're here for. And so that is genuinely the only reason why that year I did not just go into my normal. cycle of like she works out for one quarter and does three quarters off. But that was kind of part of it. You were encouraged to have an Instagram account for accountability and to connect with other people

that were doing it. But I don't know how it was for you. For me, that got very obsessive because there were kind of these, I guess I'll say, kind of toxic attitudes and approaches around it. And for me, that led to this really obsessive behavior with working out with my diet. It was like, if it fits your macros is really big. Right. I'm weighing my food. I'm bringing my tepperware of my boiled chicken to the restaurant. I'm doing all of the workouts.

It was like three workouts a week maybe plus all of the challenges, everything. And I didn't have an understanding at that time. I thought that was wellness. I thought that was health. And I thought that having abs meant that then you were healthy. So it was kind of similar to you where like I just didn't know. And I was just kind of like doing the best I could with what I was given. Yeah, right. And I do think kudos to the people who started it because I do think that they like literally invented fitness culture, especially online as it is today.

Like I always go back and forth because obviously there are like toxic parts of these trends. And I do think like where it falls in your journey is really important in terms of like how you go back to see it. But I also think that people who are leading the toxicity were also probably experiencing it themselves. I feel like, you know, it's kind of part of the problem of idolizing people on social media is the fact that like they could be going through something really shit and you, am I allowed to swear? Yeah. Okay. And you are consuming that as well. They don't necessarily have a knowledge of the fact that they are too.

And then you are as well. And then it's their fault. But also they didn't have that kind of where, like, wherewithal about it, which I'm not sure I explained that well at all. But I feel like, because I look back at that time and I definitely had. such toxic views on exercise. I mean, we've talked about the fact that I literally believed that working out was for a quarter of the year and for one goal and one goal only and that was aesthetic and I was like purely going towards this like things like the thigh gap like all of that. And I don't think that was like one person perpetuating that. I think that was like it fits so

well with like Fitzpo culture at the time is that it was all like I'm trying to think of Instagram at that time like I can see I can see what the UI looked like. I can see the like blue at the top and the like hard lines in between all of the like grid stuff, the explore page, like all of that. It was so hardwired to perpetuate this. Yeah, the transformation photos. Oh my God, 100%. That's how I built my account. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. And I feel like it was, I don't know, there's obviously a place for that within people's fitness journeys, of course. I think that it was like this big perfect storm of like all of it coming together. And I think that in, well, in my, what would have been my second year, probably would have been when you followed me actually, I would have been working. I was an intern in like a corporate role and I would like go to the gym before work like 5am. Everything would be either in Tupperware or I would have planned my day in terms of my meals on my fitness pal like at the beginning of

the day and then I'd go online and like, see, like very much part of this as well. I would go online and I'd be like, see, the best way to do it if it fits your macros is not to add things. things in as you eat them. You need to add them in before you eat them so that you can see if it fits with your day. And me being like, I'm helping. I'm helping everyone here, which obviously would have been like hugely toxic at the time. But I was also in that toxicity. I was like, this is the best way to do everything. And it was just like so, it was so meticulously planned out. Like I would literally plan every single thing. I'd put my fucking coffee in my fitness pal. Same. Now I probably drink a liter of oat milk.

Yeah. Oh my God. I know. Yeah. And that was kind of what I meant by like, you're kind of doing the best you can with what you know. Like also, I thought that was health and I thought that was wellness. And I truly at the time thought that macros were freeing because I felt like, okay, I can eat all of this. And then I don't think about it outside of that. I didn't really realize how like obsessive it was and how to your point I would have to like recalculate everything if I ate something extra or whatever. But like, I was promoting this toxic approach to health and wellness, but I didn't know and I didn't think it was toxic at the time at all. And I also do have to say, like, I think, well, that time, I think actually did get me into a fitness in a way that I now really appreciate. And I think that it wasn't necessarily the best way to do it in terms of all of that and in terms of the way I saw it and the reasonings behind what I did and like all of that. But I do think in a funny way, the way it helped me get to a cycle of like, oh, actually, you do just want to move your body for X, Y, Z reasons that I hadn't even, I just, in my mind at that point, sports was, like,

I'd loved gymnastics and I'd done that quite seriously. And then I stopped doing that because I was injured. And then I was like, okay, well, at least the big, like, chore part of my life has gone. I don't need to, like, do all of these, like, conditioning things. And I don't need to do all of theirs. So I just wouldn't go near exercise. And I do think it, like, having years of, I mean, my account built for years after that based on fitness and that was as someone who a few years before I mean had literally no understanding of fitness and could not for the life of me stick to anything to do with fitness and did not see fitness as anything other than a vehicle for looking good on the beach and I think that it kind of in a roundabout way definitely led to me having like a big appreciation for exercise

and and very much using that as an outlet for all different things but it's taking a long time together Yeah. There definitely would have been more linear approaches. Yeah. I think there's good and bad that came from it, I guess. Maybe not even necessarily bad because it was like a learning process. And it's kind of amazing to look at some of those early BBG people who, you know, launched careers off of it. And I was the same as you. Like wellness was not part of my life. I was a hope to die drug addict and alcoholic prior to that. And I was two years sober when I started doing BBG. right starting from scratch and it totally gave me an appreciation for movement and nutrition and all of that but it took a while to find that balance yeah no definitely and it was it was more of like as in anywhere you went whether you chose that whether you chose something else like you would have found that type of culture in pretty much every single area of Instagram at that time like Do you remember the photos of like the smoothie bowls? Yes.

And all of that. And like it would be all, it was all like bikinis and smoothie bowls. And me in like rainy London being like, I will make this work. I will be part of this culture. And like heavily filtered. Like I can see the filters too with the filtered smoothie bowls, the everything aesthetic. Like all of my pictures were like my hand with like the smoothie bowl. I would create it direct.

Yeah. Like this entire thing. Like when I was making a smoothie bowl. I'm not sure I've ever liked a smoothie bowl for one. Like first of, like, I really don't think that I've ever had a smoothie bowl and be like, this is what I wanted to have right now. And the like decoration of the bananas on it and the grunola and the seeds. And also like that shit is so expensive.

Like I used to save up to go and fucking chia seeds. Like I was on an intern on like 18 grand a year living in London. Oh my God. Wow. And I would like go into like the local health store. And it'd be so expensive. Like I could get a whole meal. And I didn't even fucking like cheer seats.

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Like every time I want to order something, but I don't want to order something that's like, it's not that I want like a burger. It's the fact that I want not to cook. And when you do that in the UK, you have like two options of healthy things because takeout is very much, you know, it's going to be something that's like more of a like big meal. But one thing I have noticed is like the amount you can order like, I try, I nearly ordered like a spaghetti like bolognese the other day, like a vegan one. And I just realized at the last moment that it was made.

of like zucchini. And I was like, this is obviously not what I'm in the market for. Please use some keywords here. Like I can't believe I was nearly about to arrive with like someone spiralized corgette on my plate. Yeah. It's so funny. Yeah. You can get anything that you want here modified in any way. And it's so funny that like people don't even, I don't know, bad an eye at it. You should do quinoa spaghetti. Really? Yes. Is that good? See, I actually really like things like edamarme bean spaghetti and all of that. Like I think it actually tastes like I like the I like the taste of it. So I'll have that. But I've moved on for my chia seed face. I've finally accepted the fact that like I don't actually like it and I don't need to like spend a whole mortgage on it.

Amazing. You also started your YouTube around that time. You had a lot going on because you were also at Oxford. Well, so I started Oxford in the it would have been the September after you followed me. Okay. So I worked at IBM during that time and I'd worked there for a year. year. I started the account actually when I was still at not school. We have in the UK, we have like school up to your like 16 and then college if you stay on from like 16 to 18. So I was at like college or sixth form. And that's when I started my, that's when I started the account. I worked for a year at IBM after I left that and then I went to Oxford that summer. But I had actually, I'd started my YouTube at some point in the year I was at IBM. And the reason I did it was actually only,

me because you could not upload more than 15 seconds on Instagram. So I was like, well, how am I going to get the people my workouts? And I used to do them in 15 seconds. It'd be like, well, like, you'd literally see me do like one exercise, another exercise, another exercise. Could you swipe through at the time? I can't remember. No, you couldn't do that until like 15 year of uni. Okay. So it was just my entire university directory done in like Instagram updates. But so it would literally be like this, these 15 seconds. Anyway, so I started YouTube then, but it was honestly, I did. I mean, there's a reason it did not. take off for a good while because I didn't watch YouTube as a person. So why I thought that I could wade into the space and be like, I'm going to create some good content is completely beyond me.

But I would create this content where I did like, because I didn't watch YouTube, I just thought it was like a longer version of like what would be on my Instagram. So I'd literally be like, hi, I'm going to the gym. And then you'd seem like my legs moving and like sped up motion. And then you'd see me like opening the door to the gym arriving, doing a few exercise. And then like at the end it would be like, thank you for watching. Done. That was my YouTube for That was my version of a blog. And I don't know why I never thought, like, maybe, maybe watch someone else's vlog. Like, maybe have a little look at what content's doing well here on the platform. The strategic era of my brain was clearly not yet developed. Yeah, but you blew up, I don't remember how many followers or anything that you had at the time, but you were huge. To be fair, I think it really started blowing up when I was at Oxford. And I think there's a good few reasons for that. And I, it's funny because obviously my Instagram, and my kind of content as a whole was around fitness, but I would actually say what I got the most traction for online and on YouTube was the kind of I'm at uni. I'm in like for three years. It was me

literally in like a room being like, I'm writing another essay and then putting a vlog out. And then it'd be like, I'm doing this again. Like here's a day of like tutorials. Like here's a day of this. And so actually a lot of what hit on YouTube wasn't actually about fitness when I like, looked at it, but it was all like intertwined in this kind of very, I mean, it was authentic because there was literally no other way to do it. I did not have an ounce of spare time. So I couldn't even, didn't even have time to be fake if I wanted to. But it was like very much just, I was just sharing like the very much kind of like unfiltered experience at that point, which I think was a very key part of my journey. Like very, very key. Whereas you'd go over to my Instagram and a lot of

that was kind of the, you know, the workouts and the all of that that that I was doing. But realistically, the majority of the time, I was, like, sat in a room with no cookie equipment eating, like, hard boiled legs out of the fridge. I remember at the time being, like, how is she doing all of this? Because, you know, if you are a content creator full-time, even though it was different back then, like, it's very time-consuming. And then to be a full-time student on top of that, and I've heard you talk about this in the past where you're like, I think it was interesting to people because like you didn't fit this mold or like you didn't belong in the box that people wanted to put you in. Is that how you experienced it at the time or do you just kind

of recognize that in retrospect? I think a little bit of both. I think that at the time like it would be such a lie to be like, oh, I didn't know that they were interested in like the Oxford thing. Like please, if you look at my thumbnails and my titles at the time, it was like a day in the life at Oxford University like student and working out. from the university. Like, it was my biggest claim to fame. Got it. Like, fucking hell did I, like, rinse that. But I do think, marketing, you know? Like, what can I say? You can't keep me from the marketing well. But, you know, I was there and I was very much, I think there was, like, a number of different layers to this. It was very weird going to Oxford with this type of

presence online. I think that's probably the first thing to say. I understand that, like, socials now are seen as something that's desirable to some extent. But actually in terms of like that time, it was seen as very, very weird. Like content creating and putting out something showing like me going to the gym and me doing anything that's like that doesn't, that isn't like valuing the kind of like academic side of things at all was it was, it was like it could not be less cool. Like I think that it was, first of all, it was before the influencer time, really. But also, that was not a space where people were going to value influencer anyway. I still think that probably like half my peers who were there at the same time

probably don't see what I've done as success at all, like not even in the slightest. And I think there was part of that where I was kind of like, okay, well, I'm not going to be valued for this at all anyway here. Like, no matter what I'm uploading online, it's always going to look fucking weird. Like it's always going to be like, what is this girl doing? Like, why is she posting photos of herself in the gym? Why is she posting photos of her meals? Why is she telling everyone like what her day is looking like?

Why is she like posting photos of her bum? Like, as in like, it just wasn't, you know? And so I was like, well, I might as well be getting the benefit from it elsewhere. And I think it's worth saying that it was definitely not, like, it was definitely not appreciated there. Like, not that I would want it to be like appreciated as in it was like looked down upon for sure. But it was like a key part of my journey and I look back and I'm kind of like, wow, you had a lot of like kind of bravery to be going about like actually doing that when you know that people would be looking at you being like, it's kind of pathetic. But it was just, you know, it was it was who I was and it was what I was doing at the time and I enjoyed doing it. And I'm proud of myself for having like not battered an eyelid at that and just kind of push through.

Because obviously it built the foundations for my career now. And I really enjoyed it at the time as well. Like I really enjoyed that content. I worked like a fucking maniac though. Like I really like when I look back at how I treated myself during that time, I honestly like so I was doing 10,000 words a week. And as part of that, you have a tutorial for each of those 2,500 or 2000 to 2,500 words. So I'd have about four tutorials a week. And then I'd have all of my lectures that I'd have the 10,000 words. And then I was obviously doing this YouTube thing. And I was committed to A, and by committed, I say I committed myself. And therefore, in my head, there's literally zero wiggle room. But I'd committed to three uploads a week, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, 5pm. So one way or another, I was getting a video out.

And so whether it was like, it would either be, I would usually do like a vlog and then two non-vlogs a week. And so to do those two non-vlogs, I would wake up early when my room didn't have any natural light. like it wasn't good natural light at all. And so I would wake up early on the days that my friend, who was on the floor above, had a lecture at a 9 am lecture. And I had like a spare key for her room. And I would go upstairs and I would get into her room and I'd set everything up. And I'd film like three to four videos back to back.

Oh my God. And I'd planned them on a note. It would be like 10 things I wish I knew about my fitness journey. Or like 10 of the things that shocked me most about Oxford. or like, you know, whatever it might be. There's a very unoriginal. I'm sure I did better at the time. But I'd literally like whip through those before my friend came back and obviously like very

much had to use the room. And then I'd go out like about my day. But like the productivity all of this, it was a sharp operation. But like I look back and I'm like, wow, you did not stop. Yeah. Like just did not stop. And it like, it fueled me. Like I was really doing something I loved.

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Like, as in, I think that this is a two-way thing. I think that I used Oxford online to justify the fact that I wasn't some like vapid girl who just took photos of my ass. Like, which like, you can do both everybody. Yeah, exactly. But like as in, in and of itself, it's like a little bit problematic and a little bit like I felt the need to like really prove that over and over. Like, I definitely used the fact that I went to Oxford as they're like, oh, you've actually misunderstood me.

Like, you've misunderstood me. And like, how could you possibly like not, you know, whatever it might be? Anyway, so I definitely used that side. And especially because, like, very early on, in my kind of accounts, I always would post about things that weren't fitness, which I think at the time wasn't necessarily well received. Like, I remember doing this whole video and people were like, you know, how did you get those grades? And like, how did you get in Oxford? And I remember being like, well, you know, like, I went to a really good private school. And like, I really believe that in the UK, like, the state versus private system is, like, absolutely terrible. And like, these are the things that they did versus like, of my friends in terms of like why, you know, I think that I ended up getting that good grades. So like when there was the big, there was like the Irish abortion referendum and like it took over my socials for like weeks and I was like, you know, going like ham on that and people would constantly be like, stick to fitness, stick to fitness. And I was like, I know more about this than I do fitness. Like fitness. Like this is not my thing. Like this and I definitely

used like, okay, take me seriously. Look, I go to Oxford as like a token of like free pass, past, like stop looking down upon me and definitely an element of that was insecurity. I think the other way around, you're completely right in my final year at uni. It was in like the January and I was starting Tala in May and it had been underway since August of the previous year. And, well, actually, I thought I was studying it in March. It ended up launching in May. And I just remember one like evening.

I just started frantically applying for like all of the grad schemes that I could find. I was like, I've been to Oxford, this is what I need to do. Like, this is, this is what I should be doing. If I leave here and I go into full-time content creation, I had, I had like, just like this insecurity in my head that I was like, here I'm impressive, then I won't be impressive. And I think that that was just like this underlying like need for validation that I was getting externally at the time and which I, I, like I was a very, very insecure teenager. And I think that I spoke about this in my book, like the whole of the last chapter was about the fact that I had kind of, I thought I'd grown confidence. Like I thought I'd built this confidence. I'd actually built this, like, I'd built followers.

Like, that's what I'd built. It wasn't confidence. It was validation that I was getting from elsewhere. I wasn't getting it internally. And so I think there was an element of this as well in the way that I was just like, I was like, okay, must do something. what's the next impressive thing I can do? So I applied for all these grad schemes, despite the fact that I was literally starting a new company that I knew was going to be something that I really wanted to do. And I had, I also applied to business school. And I was just like, oh, you know, I'm like going to do these things. And like, this is going to be like my next like co-signing of approval for like the wider world that like don't look down on me. Like don't look down on me. And I think that's like very, I think that's very loaded. And it's something that I've like tried to unpack a lot. I think it's like very inherently entwined in my personality.

Like there's been nothing that I, like I am definitely driven by that still now. Like I try and unpack it and I'm like, what is driving this? Is it the fear that I won't be taken seriously? Is it the fear that I won't be impressive and therefore people won't like me or won't respect me or like whatever it might be? I've really tried to break that down more and more and more, but I don't, I definitely don't think I've fully broken that down. I had obviously started my previous business like two years before in my first year at uni. So, but at the time, I don't think I'd done that as a kudos thing. I definitely did that as a necessities thing.

The more and more that grew and the more and more it like did well. And I realized I really did have a knack for like not just marketing, but kind of understanding product market fit when it came to like my really. specific market. Like I could predict to a T, which color way, which shape, which waistband of like the Jim Shark leggings that I'd be plugging, like, would do best. And I could see all of it because I could see the analytics. And I would literally be able to predict by like the, and I would do my videos in a way that would enhance the strongest of them because I'd be like, you know, strengthen your strengths. Like, you know, if this is a better product, like, chances are that like more and more people are going to kind of are going to, like, are going to.

through based on this specific thing. And I just realized that I, like, had that real neck. And I think that gave me, like, more and more validation. I think as people started seeing me as a, as more of a business owner, I definitely wanted to play into that. But the fact that I was applying for grad roles and applying for business school in my final year when I could more than happily support myself, I absolutely think would have been driven by the fear of not being taken seriously. I can relate to that a lot because in 2020, it was like during COVID, everybody was kind of reevaluating things. And I was like, I'm going to go to med school, which is like something I was always interested in. Mind you, I dropped out of college. So I had to like go back, finish undergrad, then do the whole thing. But I was like so determined. And I had my podcast at the time. And I had been talking to a lot of doctors. And it was COVID. And health was like at the forefront of. And everybody's minds and I was like I want to be in there and I started the whole process and I was in school for a year and then I kind of came to that realization too where I was like I don't think I'm

doing this for the reasons I was like I think I'm doing it because I'm like having these experts on the show who are so smart and the influencer content creator job even though it's a totally legitimate job and hard and not like I really think that a lot more people would do it if it was as easy as we perceive it to be. But it's still so stigmatized. And I realized like, oh, wait, I think that I'm doing this also to feel legitimate myself and be legitimate in other people's eyes. So I can relate to that a lot because I think that there are some parallels there.

But to your point, what you just said, I think it's interesting. I don't know if you've seen on TikTok, but there are people who are like talking about how they quit content creation to work at a nine to five because it's just a one to five because it's so much better for them to work in a job where you go into an office or whatever, you have set hours, you have boundaries, and your job is your job and your life is your life. And there's a clear delineation between those two things. No, I actually haven't seen that, but I love that. Yeah.

And I am a big believer in the fact that entrepreneurship isn't for everyone. I believe that you will tell someone who should be an entrepreneur, you will tell them all of the worst things about entrepreneurship. And they'll be like, cool, I'm going to do it anyway. Because they think that it's like the traveling and this and that and you're clicking through the computer and at the photo shoot. Yeah, by all the call and like all of this. And I also think that I just, I don't think the entrepreneurship is for everyone. And I don't think being self-employed for everyone. And I think it should be for everyone that wants it.

So it's not to say, it's not to gatekeep. It's not to be like, oh, you shouldn't, this is so hard. Only I can do this. I don't believe that at all. Like there will be people that there are so many people who would be far better than me at like being an entrepreneur. or being self-employed, whatever it might be. But I do think we've like hugely over-glamourised what it actually looks like. And I think that also it's not about how hard it is,

because I don't think it's so much about over-glamourising like, okay, this is really hard. Like when I say content creation is hard, I don't mean that you wake up in the morning and you have to get over lots of hard things because I don't believe it's the hardest thing in terms of that. I think you need a real talent and a real knack to be able to do it. And the amount brands or even like Tala, for example, pays to do a campaign shoot, that one influencer could direct, shoot, edit, like, creative direct

style all on their own, like goes to show like how valuable this type of thing is. But I do think that like there's been this like missold representation of like self-employment as greater freedom and entrepreneurship always is greater freedom. And I think that it can lead to greater freedom. And I think that if you, you know, if you set up, set up like a certain type of business and if you aren't solely revenue driven and if you, like, you can be really smart about it and you can be, you know, you can unlock greater freedom. But that a lot of the time is after like a good few years of like the opposite direction, like working for more than a traditional nine to five. And I think even then, like this idea that you like don't have a boss is it's misled because this boss then is associated with someone telling you what to do. But like life tells you what to do based on the fact that you need to earn money based on the fact that you need to have security based on the fact that you, I don't know, you have investors or you have customers or you have clients, like whatever it might be. All of the, something will become your boss.

It's not just going to be you waking up. in the morning like deciding. Like so in all different walks, something will become your boss. It's about working out like which boss you would most like. Like would you like to be entirely like, would you like your day to be entirely determined by customers? You could. Would you like your day to be entirely determined by clients? Would you like your day to be entirely determined by investors? Unless you are like stinking rich and can do all of those things yourself and do not need to be revenue driven, you are going to have a boss. It's about working out what type of boss is, like it is worth it for you and what type of boss versus security remuneration,

kind of time off, all of these different things, like what the ratio is of those different things, especially through things like TikTok. Like everyone's aspiring to be freelance. Yeah. And I just don't know in a world where the majority of us are going to have careers for like 40, 50 years. Like you can always go back.

Like you can always go back. Of course you can. But it is harder. And like I really do believe that like more and more of us and I believe that I wish I could have told myself this, more and more of us should get as much training as possible through more traditional routes until we believe that we are an expert in our craft. And an expert is not just making more than your nine to five. An expert is knowing how to pivot in every single different kind of change within the industry or within social media or within the algorithms or platforms or like whatever it might be.

And if you're not an expert, you are not going to be able to weather all of those different storms, whereas you get to weather those different storms when you're an employee. Does that make sense? I feel like I just feel like there's this kind of misrepresentation. I don't want to discourage anyone from following their dreams. I just think, like, making sure that your dream has not quite been missold. And even if you can make more one month, two months, 12 months, 24 months than you do in your 9 to 5, like what's the trajectory? What does that look like over time?

How does that grow? How do you build that client base? How do you make sure you're always, like, like people say with agencies, you're always one client away from, like, bankruptcy and one client away from your big break? Like, that's literally the saying with agencies. And yet we're sold this as like, this is a great idea. You know? Yeah. I think there's a bit of a rush and the bit of a rush is because it's perceived to be freelance and self-employed and entrepreneurship is perceived to be the correct end goal for everyone, which I just don't think it is. Let's talk about the big O obesity. Four in ten Americans struggle with it. So there really should be no shame in the weight game. But unfortunately, there is. And it seems like everybody is doing the absolute most to try to hack the health system. from $20 smoothies to endless supplements to daily ice baths, but there is a better way.

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rooms. With Roe, the average weight loss is 15 to 20% in one year with healthy lifestyle changes. BMI and other eligibility criteria apply. Go to row.com slash blonde and sign up today and you will pay just $99 for your first month and $145 a month after that. Medication costs are separate. That's RO.co slash blonde. Again, row.com slash blonde. It's a completely different kind of pressure, I think, because I've had regular jobs, jobs where you go in, you clock in, you know what your role is for the day, somebody is telling you what to do, you know that you're getting paid, like there's consistency, right? And it takes a lot of the pressure off, I think, and that's not to say there aren't so many high pressure jobs, you know, where somebody has a boss or whatever. But it's a different kind of pressure where you wake up and you're like, oh, I have to come up with content. And I have to feed the beast of, you know, the algorithm, the audience. And to your point, you constantly have to be pivoting and kind of adapt to new trends and new landscapes and everything. And there's job insecurity because it's like, you know, it could, the platform could go away tomorrow.

And, you know, there's always people who are going to come up and be bigger tomorrow. And it's just like, I don't know. I find I get very burnt out, especially across multiple platforms. And I know that you kind of of stepped away from social media, right, and doing like typical quote-unquote content creation. And you wanted to ensure that your companies are scalable and that they have a future that isn't tied to you. So is this what led to that decision? And what was that like for you because you're living my dream? Thank you.

I think it's all intertwined for sure. And like me definitely going on like a bit of a rant of like, not everyone. wants to be full-time and not everyone should want to be like a content creator and like all of these different stuff like it all ties back to the fact that like I'm sitting here from a position of like a huge privilege someone who could make a living full-time as a content creator and decides to put focus elsewhere and someone who had that opportunity and someone who you know like as in of course it's easy for me to sit here and be like oh that's something we want to do I also I also categorically I liked it at that point that we were

were talking about at uni. But I realized that the job itself was not suited to my skill set at all. I think I have a real attitude for marketing. I think I have a real aptitude for understanding product as marketing and product towards a target customer and product market fit in general. And I think those things led to me being a good content creator because I was able to ascertain what types of things to be posting about and whether that was specifically just like educational or contextual or whatever or whether it was actually about products and halls and all of these different types of things. But like the biggest parts of the content creation job are doing all of these different things and being happy with your own work and being solid enough in it that you can put it out

to the wolves and to have it be received badly and you still feel like you're doing, you're doing well. And like first of all, I've talked about the fact that definitely at that time I was like really quite insecure and I was very very reliant on external validation. But on top of that, even as I've done that growth away from that point, like, I'm a huge people-pleaser, and I feel like being a people-pleaser and being a social media content creator are not two things that go that well together. Like, it just doesn't, like, you cannot try and people-please and try and people-please, like, hundreds of thousands of people every day. Like, you just can't. It just can't. It just, doesn't make any sense. Like I always talk about context collapse and context collapse is the fact that

like if you were telling a story to your mom, to your boyfriend, to your friend, to a stranger you just met, like you would tell that story differently. You would tell it completely differently. And therefore, when you're talking to like an audience full of people, you're not able to context collapse. Like that context collapse doesn't exist. You put it out in one form and you think it's going to be received well or you don't know if it's going to be received well or whatever it might be. And like, of course it's not from all directions. And like, no, that's not the end of the world. And no, that shouldn't, like, everyone should try and be strong enough to mean that that doesn't rip it down. But I actually realized that, like, the measures of success in the area I was in,

in this kind of content creation area, these measures of success were specifically measures of success that I don't value or that it wasn't healthy for me to value. So the measure of success of a video getting more views led to me doing worse content to get more views because I knew it was specifically going to get more views. Like nothing seedy, but like as in I, I just, you know, I have a quite like a logical, strategic brain. And I was like, okay, this works, do more of this. I wasn't very good at cementing myself in this kind of, okay, what value do I want to add to the world and being able to ignore everything else. And I also just realized that I was like missing a huge amount of what I do enjoy. It wasn't so much that I didn't enjoy this. I really enjoyed so much of it. And like, one of the things I missed most is just like vlogging. Like I fucking loved vlogging. Like I, you know, like that was my lifeblood. But I feel like what I was missing was working with people and problem solving with people and batting ideas back and forth. And I just realized that like my favorite, favorite parts of my job at that time, but when we would like very occasionally all get in a room and have a conversation about, and I'm

about like a new product or, you know, when I was starting Tala, then it was like a lot more. I would like, I'd spend a lot of time with, you know, the two people that worked there. And we'd like, back all of these ideas back and forth. And we'd try all of these things. And we'd put on a random shoot and it would look fucking terrible. And we'd like, well, we're not going to do that again. Or like, whatever it would be. But like the process I loved so much.

And I just realized that I was not suited to this long term. I realized that it had been perfect as a season of my life. Like it had been perfect as this kind of this phase. And of course, I haven't stepped away from it fully. But there was two years where I literally put out, like, not a single thing of value at all. You'd get like a shit selfie from me every like two months. Like genuinely I would post every two months or something. And I also just realized that I was doing too much, not as good as it could be done.

And I wanted to make this decision to, as you say, invest in these brands that I believe very, very, very strongly in. And there was a lot of things at the time. I restructured the whole of Tala, kind of just as we were coming into COVID times, because I was like, this is structured as like an influencer merch brand. This is like amazing product. I really believe in this. We've got like incredible metrics. And this is structured as an influencer merch brand. Like if I stop posting tomorrow, brand dies. Like, and then for what? Like, then this is just a merch brand. Like you say you're a business owner. And like, sure, yes. business. I know you're like selling, but like that's not what I wanted to do. I wanted to build this

company that I really believed in and thought that people would love to receive. And so I basically just decided I was like, you've got to take that away from yourself completely. It's too easy of a thing to fall back on. It's too easy to just be like, okay, this is a bit too hard. I'm just going to film this and get this out and people are going to like it anyway. And so I literally like, I deleted every single one of my old YouTube videos like overnight. I deleted them and I was like, I'm taking away, because now it's going to be a big thing if you post a blog. So now you've got to do a big fucking thing about it and then you've got to stick to it. Do you want to do that? No. And I like made it like impossible for myself. I was like, you know you want to do this,

but the instant gratification is winning every time. You don't want to do that full time. That's not the life you want to build for yourself when you're 40. Like that's not what you want to do. And so I just like spent a good few years going in. and just being like if you if you really like I strongly believe that like six months dedicated in something relentlessly working on making it better can put you two three five years ahead like I strongly strongly believe that and I just decided to execute it that way and you know we're nowhere near where I want to be like I hope that like in a few years we'll look back at where Tala is now and go like oh you know she was so small but like

Like, I've built something that I'm so proud of and not just something that I'm so proud of from a perspective of kind of, I think it's impressive, which is obviously what I have a tendency to do, but something that I'm so proud of because I get to go there every day. And I've, like, built this workplace around myself to go in and literally, like, I feel like I'm playing a game. Like, I feel like, and don't get me wrong, half the time that game is like, shit. Like I hate that fucking game But like I'm going in And I'm like looking over these designs And I'm looking over the marketing plan And I'm at a shoot

And I'm in a board meeting And I'm like I made up this whole workplace Like I feel like I'm playing house I feel like I'm playing like doctors You know when you're like a kid And I was like This is the type of workplace that works for me

Because I get to go into five different meetings And all of them are completely different And using different parts of my brain and I feel like I can add value. I feel like I can hopefully nurture other people to get to where they want in their careers. I feel like we are building something incredible. But I think beyond even the like I want to build this incredible brand that people buy product from and they're like, wow, this is fucking incredible. Beyond that, I want to build, you know, I feel so proud of myself for building some, like building a life for myself and like a daily schedule for my.

myself that I'm like, I feel fulfilled. Like I feel fulfilled in my every day and it's suited to me. And that doesn't mean that it's not like fucking hard all the time. And literally just like when I least expect it is just like, oh, let's just throw this shit at you. But like I'm very proud of it. And I think when you're doing something, even when you do have challenges like that, when you are fulfilled and it's something that you do enjoy, you can weather that. And it doesn't burn you out. like, I mean, just, I can just speak for myself doing sponsored content for social media, which I don't do that much of anymore. But when I do, I'm always like, why am I doing this? Like, it takes away from the things that I do love doing and the content that I do love making and the things that I want to do in the

future and where I want things to go. And it's, it just burns you out. Whereas if it's navigating a challenge that comes up with something that I love or like, I don't know if I'm interviewing somebody about a topic that I know nothing about and I have to learn all that stuff I love. that's like a good challenge, like a good stressor, whereas the other stuff is just like, it just drains you. Yeah. So the way I think about it is I did a lot of reading into like the original, the original theory behind flow state and, you know, why we find it so enjoyable when we're like working on something and we get into a flow state where we're kind of like really fixated on what we're doing and we're kind of like working through it. And you come out of

that and you feel really good. Like, whether it's cooking, whether it's like learning something difficult, like, it releases something. I mean, it's literally hormonal, but it like releases something in us when we're like, I did that. Like, you know, you get that dopamine release. You get that kind of like, oh, I've overcome this. And like the point where that happens is the intersection between having high challenge and high skill. So it's not about, it's not about something just being difficult. It's about something being difficult, but difficult in something you are highly skilled at. And so you, and that doesn't need to be like you being an expert. As I said, it could be cooking.

Like, you are skilled enough to overcome the challenge of putting all of those things together and making something that tastes nice. And I just realized that none of the things that I had in my day were getting me into a flow state. Like, occasionally planning a video or, but all of the rest of it would be product stuff. Like, all of the rest of it would come back to the businesses. And I was like, I'm not putting myself in a position where I can feel fulfilled. And I do think that, like, you know, don't get me wrong.

As I've said, like, that is a hugely privileged position to be in in terms of, like, the way that you build that up as a career. But at the same time, like, I believe as humans, like, we seem to be, especially with, like, TikTok and everything. Like, we seem to be trying to program our lives to have the least challenge possible. Like, we go for convenience over everything. Like, we don't want a boss because we don't want anyone to tell us what to do. we don't want to commute because we, you know, part of it, obviously we don't want to pay for it, but like we don't want to have those annoying little things like where you get on the train and you're like, oh, fuck, that's like not this or like it takes you a bit longer or whatever it might be.

We're like working towards the maximum convenience possible. And I don't get me wrong, like I think that's a good thing to a certain extent. And I think it's definitely a good thing when it comes to breaking down barriers for things like, you know, like working moms and like all of these different things where flexibly. is incredibly important and necessary for us to build workplaces that work for a lot of people. But I don't believe that we as humans are meant to not be faced with challenge every day that we can overcome. Like I think that is where we get joy out of. And so like I remember I was talking to my friend the other day and she is a content creator and she was like, I just feel like I'm kind of like floating at the moment. And I was like, I was like, you know, like taught me through

what you're doing at the moment. She was like, oh, well, you know, like I get it. And she was like, I just feel like I'm get up and I'll like go to the gym at like a time where it's a bit quieter and like I'll do some responding to emails and I'll do some shooting content and like all of this and like it's all there's no money issues here like she's like making a fantastic living and so like this sounds like something where it's like you know like the tiniest violin in the world it's like it's not about that it's more like how you feel as a human being and she was like I'm just doing this like every day all of this and I was like do you feel like you're being challenged at any part of your day because I was like I'm just like going to take a

like a stab at this. I would say like you're very financially comfortable. You're going, even things that you're going to the gym at a time where you don't need to confront anyone else. You don't need to wait for a machine. You don't need to have any challenge. You don't have a commute. So you don't have, you don't get time to be bored. You don't get time to just like, oh, this is fucking annoying. Like another challenge that you overcome. So the only thing that is annoying in your life is like work. Like that is a recipe for just like, yeah, hating what you're doing. It's a recipe of hating what you're doing because the only challenge is associated with like earning a living. And actually I believe that like convenience is meaning that we're all like trying to move away from anything that isn't just instant gratification.

And actually that leads to it leads to speed and it leads to sometimes saved money. It leads to save time. And like as I said, important for lots of things. But if we do that on a mass scale across all, all of our lives. Like, that's why so many, like, really rich people are fucking bored. Like, no one wants to do nothing. Like, we as humans are programmed to have challenge. And I worry that we are, we see challenge as bad when we need to be building challenge that we can overcome, like, little things or, like, the work itself that we get into that flow state on every, like, every single

day. Like, that's how we literally get dopamine releases. Yeah. When you've designed your life to only feel comfort or if you feel only comfort and convenience the majority of the time, what you're going to notice is when you feel uncomfortable. And that's going to be magnified, I feel like, because you don't have that, I don't know, you need the variety. It's like so cliche, but like you need the bitter to feel the sweet, right? And vice versa. And if all you're feeling is just comfort and, convenience, then as soon as you feel something other than that, it's like, whoa, it's jarring. It becomes more uncomfortable. And I think that, like, this is what I always, like, I got a

message the other day from someone being like, I've got this super flexible work from home job at the moment, but I find it a bit boring. Do I take the job that's like in my dream industry, but it's not work from home? And I was like, do you hear yourself? Yeah. I was like, obviously I didn't respond like that because I'm not an idiot. But like, I'm not me. But I was just like convenience doesn't equate to like beneficial all the time. Like comfort isn't the only thing we should be aiming for. Like we're here for so long, hopefully. Like we should be building in discomfort.

Like we should be building in a life where you feel like adequately challenged. Like I always say and like there's a lot of kind of literature around the fact that like the best places, the best workplaces you feel equally supported as you do challenged. So you're constantly feeling challenged, but you feel supported enough. And that to me is like the type of life we should be building. None of us should be building a life where, or you can build whatever like for one. I'm not going to tell anyone what type of life they should build. But I think I built a life for myself where I was only supported. I wasn't challenged.

I wasn't challenged at all. The only time I was challenged was when people were being like, you look terrible. And so I was like, okay, cool. And so like that as well, like in itself. like you need to be challenged with things that are like good challenges and that can be a hard job. That can be something that you feel like is a bit out of your comfort zone. That can be something that you feel like is a bit too much of a step up. But like if you weren't ready, you wouldn't have the opportunity.

And I really believe that we, I especially like definitely got it into my head that I should be like aiming for the easiest path to the maximum success possible. And I think that is yes, a recipe for success to a certain extent. extent, but I don't think that's a recipe for happiness. And I think that's why I made my job like 10 times harder, literally for fun. Like sometimes, some days I'm literally like, you could be on a hotel brand deal on a beach right now. Like, you could be literally sitting on a fucking beach and you're here like arguing with fucking FedEx over like a broth or like arguing with customs telling them to release your stock because you've got a shoot to do. And like, it's releasing next week. And like, if you don't do it, you won't hit Target and all of that. And I'm like, and why have I done this? But like, I know why

where I've done it. Like creating a life where you are equally challenges, you are supported, like every single day. Like, that is the recipe for going home. And like, sometimes you're going to feel drained. Sometimes you're going to feel like you didn't challenge yourself enough. But, like, the times where you go home and you have like that breath of relief, but also like, oh, like I got through to, like, I did the thing today. Like, I really believe that we're programmed to need that. So inspiring. I think so many people are going to get so much out of that. You have so much going on between your brands, tell everybody where they can find everything. Wow, thank you. So I am Grace Beverly, Beverly, Everly across all social media. It's Beverly L-E-Y, which I have to say

when we're, like, close to Beverly Hills. We'll link everything, too. And I have three businesses, Tala, Shreddy and the productivity method. Tala is at we are Tala. Shreddy is just Shreddy, and the productivity method is just the productivity method. And yeah, we are across all platforms on those and I have a podcast called Working Hardly Working as well. You're definitely working hard. I don't know about the hardly working part. Oh, I love Hardly working. I hardly work enthusiastically. Amazing. Work smarter, not harder, right? That's the little bit of both. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. I hope you enjoyed that episode. And if you liked it, and if you liked the show in general, please take a second to rate review and subscribe. It goes a long way.

And it's actually the best way to support the show. Also, if you want to see more about each episode, you can head over to The Blond Files podcast on Instagram. You can go to Arialori.com. And I'm always posting about each episode over on my personal page at Arial Lori. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.