Well with Arielle Lorre - 412: Cheating, Compromise & the Myth of 50/50 Love with Nina Westbrook, LMFT

Episode Date: September 29, 2025

Nina Westbrook is a licensed marriage and family therapist, host of Do Tell podcast, and founder of health and wellness platforms Bene and Nebbi. She joins the show for a candid conversation about the realities of relationships including being an introvert married to a public figure and how she’s learned to say no in order to protect her peace. We explore whether a partner should be responsible for your happiness, the difference between “doing the work” in a relationship versus forcing something that isn’t right, and if every challenge is truly fixable—including infidelity. Nina also shares her perspective on the 50/50 debate, how to maintain independence when you’re deeply connected, and what it’s really like to be married to an athlete. This conversation is equal parts practical wisdom and heartfelt honesty—perfect for anyone navigating love, commitment, and personal growth within a partnership.Explore Nina's new app, Nebbi, a first-of-its-kind, science-backed mental wellness app designed to help individuals and communities build resilience, embrace mindful living, and cultivate a deeper sense of well-being in their everyday lives: https://www.thenebbiway.io/ This episode is brought to you by Bellami Hair, The Real Real, Neurogum, Everyday Dose, and Nutrafol.Try BellamiHair.com and use code WELL for 25% off your first clip-in order & book a free consultation. Get $25 off your first purchase when you go to TheRealReal.com/well.Visit neurogum.com and use code WELL to get 20% off your first order.Grab your BOGO Everyday Dose at Target. Buy 2, get paid back for 1 — visit everydaydose.com/WELL for more details.Visit Nutrafol.com and enter code BLONDE for $10 off your first month and free shipping. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.Produced by Dear Media.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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with a Bellamy certified stylist to see what Bellamy hair solution is right for you. Look amazing. Save time. Belami is honestly the best investment that I have made for my hair. This is well. A podcast about wellness in all its forms. I'm Ariel Lori, and each week I'm sharing unfiltered conversations with people shaping how we feel, live, and look. Come for the substance, stay for the honesty, and leave with the tools to be well, inside and out. Hi, everybody, welcome to the show. Sometimes I have guests on who I just connect with immediately, and that was what happened with my guest today. I loved talking to her so much and you'll definitely be able to sense that, I think, in this conversation. I'm talking to Nina Westbrook.

Nina is a licensed marriage and family therapist. She's an entrepreneur, an advocate. She is deeply passionate about erasing the stigma around mental health that she's been featured in the New York Times, Goop, Oprah Daily, B.E.T. Essence, Marie Claire, and Shape, and has shared her expertise on TED, the Jennifer Hudson Show, and the Tarantown. Cameron Hall show. And beyond her clinical work, Nina creates opportunities for connection and reflection. She hosts the due tell relationship podcast and the Benny Moments of Mindfulness Podcasts where she offers evidence-based insights on cultivating happiness, personal growth, and deeper human connections. She has had amazing thought-provoking and candid conversations with guests like Gabrielle Union, Kevin Hart, Jennifer Fisher, Malin Ackerman, and many, many more

And more recently, Nina launched Nebby. It's a first of its kind, science-backed mental wellness app designed to help individuals and communities build resilience, embrace mindful living, and cultivate a deeper sense of well-being in their everyday lives. So definitely check that out. And as you'll hear in this episode, Nina is a dedicated wife and mother of three. She also serves on the advisory board of her husband, the Russell Westbrook-Wa-Waugh-Nod Foundation and is a member of the UCLA Resnick Neuropsychiatric Hospital Board. Okay, so now that we've gotten her accomplishments and qualifications out of the way, like I said, I just loved talking to her.

She has this really calming and warm presence, and we just had a really candid, honest conversation about the realities of relationships. We both have experienced being introverts in relationships with extroverts, her specifically being an introvert married to a public figure, which is also something I kind of experienced in my, previous marriage. We talk about whether a partner should be responsible for your happiness, the difference between doing the work in a relationship versus forcing something that isn't right. This is something that people ask about in Q&A's all the time. We talk cheating, whether every challenge is truly fixable, and so much more. So I know you guys are going to love this episode and love Nina. So please enjoy Nina Westbrook. So I'd love to start by just talking about your own experience. You are a mom. You're a therapist. You have this wellness platform we've been talking

about. You're also married to somebody very successful in their own right. So I'm curious how you stay true to you and all of that and like how you don't lose your identity. That's a really good question. I feel like it's been a journey. I think that the way that I kind of grew up, up, I would say. Like, my transition into adulthood was really, really rapid. And I feel like I had to do a lot of things and experience a lot of things that people my age back when I was just getting out of college were not even remotely thinking about. Like what? You don't mind me asking. I mean, like, just traveling and moving across states, you know, starting out a career, trying to finish school. My master's program, than doing my licensure program and being between states and not being able to settle into

private practice and follow like my what I thought was going to be my career trajectory at the time. I never think, I don't think I ever wanted to be so public. Like we talked about earlier, you told me that you're private. And I'm, I think I'm very private. And it's so hard, you know, to find the line between, how much to share and what to put out about my own life and how much I want to keep to myself. But I think that through all of those experiences, I used to be crappy about putting myself first and doing things that were beneficial to me and not really worrying so much about the pressures of anyone else or the expectations of the outside world.

I think that I had to go through a period where I experienced a lot of resentment. And I feel like at the end of the day, what I learned from that experience was that I was bringing it on myself. You know, I was doing all these things. Nobody was making me. I wanted to be here for this one, that one, for my relationship. I wanted to just, you know, I was just jumping, you know, headfirst into everything, not really thinking about how the long-term effects would be on me. And then once I realized that and I was constantly being disappointed, I decided, you know, nope, that's not for me anymore.

I'm just going to do things that I want to do and I'm going to prioritize myself. And I feel like I really didn't get that until after I had my son. I think motherhood puts a lot of things in perspective for us a lot of times. And so I definitely would say that was the biggest motivating factor in the change or evolution of my mindset. I have been really open about the fact that I don't want kids, but sometimes I envy people that do have kids because they all say that, you know, it's a big turning point because suddenly like the attention is off of yourself and your own, you know, resentments and all of these little things. And suddenly you have something else that you have to put all of your energy into.

And it's very like freeing, I think. Yeah, like you get an excuse. Yeah. To not have to do things. Like kids are always a way out. Oh, that sounds great. Sold. There's no, like, you know, oh, my kid, I have this.

I can't. It's the kids. So they're a good excuse of the dream. Yeah. That's the part. The main thing you'll be not getting a chance to experience. Blaming it on the kids. I mean, that sounds great.

I mean, I heard you talk about the fact that you're an introvert, right? And you are with somebody who is a very public person, has a very public job and attracts a lot of attention all the time. So when you were talking about those resentments, was it because of that dynamic and feeling like you had to be on all the time? I know that you've said you felt like you had to be kind of performative. And I can relate to that as well. I was married to somebody who's in the public eye behind the scenes. So not to the extent that your husband is. But it was a lot of like this function, that function, these people, you know, and I'm an introvert as well. And it's like extremely draining.

I know. It is. And I mean, I feel like that's probably a small part of my experience. But yeah, going out and doing things, feeling like it was out of necessity and not really a choice that I was making and being intentional about. I think was definitely one of the small ways in which I kind of. lost myself because no, I mean, if it's up to me, I would never leave my house. Yeah, Sam. So yeah, that's a definitely was a small part. And I feel like, you know, the decisions that I was

making, I'm such a perfectionist and I have such a type A personality. I no longer do. I'm a recovering type A personality person. I'm also a Capricorn. So I always, I was always really efficient. I was always on top of things. I've always been a high achievement. fever. And I think that I was making choices and doing things that didn't quite align with who I really am. And I feel like I did that for many reasons. One being that I just wasn't valuing my own opinion and my own feelings over other people. I would put other people first and what they would want first in all of my relationships and friendships, in my marriage, in any kind of scenario where there's a relationship. And I would kind of be disappointed when I didn't get that reciprocal

amount of energy and time that I put into my relationships. And I feel like because I'm an over-roteerer and because I'm a perfectionist, like once I'm in something, I'm in it and I will do, you know, the most to make sure that I'm showing up the best way that I can in that relationship. And so that I think was the thing I had to learn to taper down. is like how much energy and time do I have to spend on this and how much there has to be checks and balances, right? Am I getting or receiving anything from this relationship that's valuable and that would constitute me putting then that much effort into it? You know, and I feel like that it's always figuring out what that balance is. Yeah, where do you think that came from? Because I can

be the same way. Like I think that I historically have been kind of a people pleaser. And when I peel the layers back on that, I think it comes from a fear of abandonment, you know, and it's kind of this anxious attachment stuff that I've worked a lot on. But where do you think yours came from? Do you think it was just that high achieving and like you really value the relationship so you're going to do everything? Of course not. Oh. I mean, that's a really good question. I feel like as an adult, I've really done a lot of work looking back into my childhood and trying to understand a little bit better about why I function or process things the way that I do. And I will say, like, I was a really, I was a competitive basketball player when I was young.

I mean, I was competitive anything. I played soccer and basketball mainly when I was young. And my dad was very, very, like, competitive. And not that he was, I mean, maybe competitive isn't the right word, but he was very strong. his push and for me and my pursuit of sports. And I never, I mean, at the time it wasn't really a problem, but I feel like growing up playing sports at such a high level in being expected to achieve as much as I was expected to achieve, not only in sports, but in life.

I'm the only girl growing up in a family of all three boys. And my brothers were always a little off the chain. There was so much going on constantly that my parents were navigating. And so I wanted to be the little ray of sunshine all the time. And that meant not making any waves, being on top of things, making sure that I was a straight-A student, making sure that I was the best in any sport that I played. And I felt like I wanted to please my parents and please my dad. And I think that's where that's sort of generated.

Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I feel like all of our childhood stuff plays out in our relationships. When we get older and you usually get faced with a situation where you either have to confront it or, you know, just keep going. And for me, it was getting sober. And when I got sober, I had so many resentments. And I had to basically do this exercise where I went back and I looked at all of the resentments and looked at my part. And a lot of times my part was not asserting myself. So back to what you were saying about like you had a choice. Like I don't have to do these things anymore. And that was a turning point for you. It was same with me. I was like, oh, I have, I can like tell people, you know, if something that they're doing is like bothering me or affecting me or like I don't have to put myself in that situation anymore. So when you got to.

that place, was that a turning point for you as well? And like what changed after that? I mean, how freeing is that though? Yeah. It's like an aha moment, right? For sure. When you just realize, oh, I don't have to do that. Yeah. It sounds so simple, but it's so much harder because there's so many things that come into it like we're talking about, you know? Mm-hmm. I mean, it's developing a strong sense of self and like not only developing boundaries, but being able to like implement them in a way that you know that you're going to disappoint someone, someone else is going to be upset. And you got to make a choice. Either they're going to be pissed off or you're going to be pissed off.

And so you can pick, right? And I feel like I just, one day I just decided I can't let other people piss me off anymore. I just want to be happy. Protect your peace. Yeah. So from that moment on, I was like, I'd rather you be mad than me be upset or uncomfortable. And I'm okay with that. And once I came to peace with that notion, then everything else kind of fell into place from there.

And at this point, were you with Russell? Were you married? I've been with Russell. I never remember. Maybe like 18 years. Wow. Yeah. So, I mean, he's kind of been there half my life.

Yeah. Was he supportive of that? Because I have so many people who listen to the show and whatever I do relationship episodes and ask them to send in questions, a lot of people ask about being in a relationship where there is a difference in people's like energy types. Like one is an introvert. One is an extrovert. And a lot of times the introverts feel like they are being overextended and they're getting

resentments and they're not setting boundaries because they don't want to disappoint their partner. Like this is such a common dynamic. I will say this. And I think that happens a lot. I feel like we always, I don't want to say opposites attract. I think we seek out in other people the thing that we want for ourselves. And then it becomes the opposite. Yeah. Once we get it and we see it, it's more like maybe you would like to be a little bit more free and extroverted and like enjoy going out and being in social settings. So that's what attracted you to him. Like it's really interesting the way our brains work like that. Yeah. But I feel like there's always growing pain with anything. I will say I've been very

fortunate to have a partner who shares the same mindset. As I do, I mean, we've been together, like I said, I think it's 18 years. It could be a little bit. longer. I don't remember. But I feel like we were kids when we met. I mean, we've become a new person at least five times since we've been together. So long story short is, yes, Russell's very accepting of the evolution of me. There are growing pains and there's always going be something that needs to be overcome. It's kind of like, and here's another kid reference. So our kids when they're young, like they change like every three months. And just when you think that you have it figured out, like it hits the fan again. And then you have to readjust and adopt

and figure it out all over again. It's the same with our relationships, right? We're going to grow, especially over that amount of time. I'm 36 and I've been with my partner for half my life, literally. And so who I was when I was 18, I was probably, like, I have no idea who the heck I thought I was. When I go back and, like, think about some of the things that I did and said, I'm like, I don't even recognize that person because I've evolved and I've grown and I've changed just so much since then. And he's been along that journey and supportive of it, you know, throughout all of it. Because at the end of the day, as long as we're both understanding and knowing that this is a part of the journey and that we will change. It's more

about being open and receptive to who we are becoming as individuals and how that works in our relationship. Yeah, I mean, do you feel like you have to be growing in the same direction? Because people are going to grow. It's a matter of, are you growing together? Are you growing apart? You know, it's so funny that you say that because I think about, I was thinking about this recently, my husband and I never grow at the same pace. We kind of, it's like, it's one of these guys. Like I go through some evolution and change and then he goes through something. And then we just keep going and going and going.

And it's so funny because sometimes when you're sitting in that space where you're like waiting for the other person to like meet you where you are, it can be challenging and it could be stressful. But then, you know, something that really worked for me was therapy. And I think that when you are working on yourself constantly and you have such a clear understanding of self, it's so much easier to recognize and see in other people the way that they're going through their process and allow the time and the space for that growth. Yeah, I've heard you talk about how, you know, you're responsible for your own happiness. And I think that a lot of us fall into the trap that our partner is responsible for our happiness, at least partially. I mean, people always fight me when I've had therapists and relationship experts on who have said that. Like, no, you are 100% responsible for your happiness. They're like, no, but your partner should make you happy.

It's like, yes, but they're not your source, right? So can we dive into that a little bit? Like, what does that look like in practice? Yeah. I mean, I feel like I'll share the same sentiment. I mean, it's like, do you want to have control over your emotional, like, being in wellness? or do you want to give that control of someone else? And just think about it in that way.

My kids call me the calm queen because now granted, that's a huge compliment because they think that I'm calm. And in my mind, I'm like enraged. And I'm trying my best not to go crazy on people. And when I say people, I mean them. But they refer to me as calm. And I'm like, okay, I'm doing something right because all the little stuff that's inside, they're not picking up on that.

But I think that it's the same lesson that I teach them all the time. They can have little six-year-old drama in their friendships at school, or you can have relationship troubles and drama in your relationship. And when you rely on your partner or someone else to create that happiness for you, then they can also take it away. And it's just giving too much power to other people over who you are and how you're feeling, right? There's just no reason to give that much of yourself up

when you can have all the control. And it's all about shifting your perspective and changing the way you do things and look at situations. That's the biggest thing that we can do. So what's the distinction? Like what should we be getting from our partner in an ideal partnership? Obviously, you have a successful relationship.

So if we're not getting happiness, quote unquote, from our partner, then what are we looking for? I mean, that's going to look different for everyone. I would say for me, for some of the foundational things that I think we could all be seeking in a partner is feelings of support and just comfort and like a safe place to land. The last thing that is going to bring us comfort is a relationship where we can't be freely ourselves. I think it exerts energy. We're introverts, right? So when you leave the house, you're talking about being performative. And I 1,000% feel like I'm performative a lot of the time because really I just want to kick back and relax and just not really have to say anything and just observe and think about everything that I see happening.

and not say anything. That's me. So I think that when that exerts a lot of energy, right? When you go out and you want to be social, maybe you're going with your boyfriend, you're going to a party to hang out with his friends, and you don't want to be like that chick sitting in the corner looking like that at everybody, like,

with everything going on in your brain. But it takes too much energy to not be fully yourself and comfortable in a relationship. So if you're having to perform in your brain, relationship, then that doesn't feel like it's sustainable to me. So I think that is the huge key also. It's just being able to be yourself and someone who's going to accept you for who you are. There's a difference between having boundaries in your relationship and having expectations for the other person to do for you. So I think it's finding the balance and figuring out what it is that

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That's actually, that is so, such a challenging question. Because I think it varies per person. And every time someone asked me this question, because I do get asked a lot, I think of that time Michelle Obama said that for 10 years of her marriage, she didn't like her husband. And everyone went nuts. And I was like, well, duh. Yeah. I mean, think about every single person in your life. Think about your parents.

I mean, did you like your parents? You're like, have you liked them your whole life? Or did they get on your nerves at some point? And these are like the people that we have the most unconditional love for kind of hardwired into us, right? It's a relationship we didn't get to choose for a lot of people. Sometimes they're great and healthy and sometimes they're not. And even in the unhealthy ones, we still crave and that connection and we miss it dearly. We don't have that, right? So what, how can you? How? How can you? We can we expect to get along and be happy and like hunky dory and lovey and like not get on someone's nerves when you're in a relationship, especially in a long-term relationship. Of course, you know, there has to be some work that goes into a relationship. And I think that you determine between something that's healthy and something that might not be so healthy based on how the intent and how someone makes you feel and who you want to be in a relationship. And I think that you start with who you want to be.

You decide who do I want to be in this relationship and who do I want to be in this world. And does being in this relationship help me to achieve that goal? because sometimes the goals don't align. And I think it's most important to be yourself in a relationship before you can do anything else in the relationship. And so seeking out a partner who allows that is really important. Like we talked about earlier, just that someone to let you be 100% yourself and authentic.

I had a therapist who I was seeing last year, kind of when I was like newly dating my boyfriend. And the therapist was like, you know, there's three entities in the relationship. There's you. There's partner. And then there's the relationship itself. And you need to treat the relationship like the third entity. Like just because there's two people together doesn't mean that the relationship is just

going to like function on its own. You need to both put effort into this third entity and put the work in, right? You're nodding your head. Like, yes. And I've heard you talk about like it's not 50-50, right? it's 100% from both people at all times. I mean, I think that relationship, I like to talk about externalizing things, right? So if there's a problem within a relationship, we externalize that problem and then both parties have to work together to rectify it, right?

Because it and it becomes a problem when one person has an issue. And I think a lot of times in a relationship, sometimes if something is impacting only, one person, then the other one doesn't think that they need to be involved in fixing that thing or rectifying that situation, right? And that's not true. So I think what your therapist was talking about is this idea that, you know, again, with the expectations, like you can have expectations for yourself, but it's not great to put expectations on other people because that's how you'll get disappointed. And then you also don't want other people putting expectations onto you, right? You can have expectations for your relationship and how you would like to see your

relationship working. And it's something that is always going to need time, energy, and effort. And so I don't know that we put 100% into our relationships at all times. I will tell you, I'm in a season where I'm not putting 100% into my marriage right now because my husband lives in another state. I'm launching a new business. I'm taking care of my three kids. And, you know, life is lifing. So that percentage of time going into my marriage is probably a little less just because I'm so spread thin. It doesn't change anything about my marriage or my relationship. He's probably putting in 100% into our marriage right now because he has more capacity, right? And so this is kind of, it ebbs and flow.

And, you know, as long as there's a commitment to the relationship by both parties and you both equally take ownership and responsibility over the relationship, that is the 100% commitment or the 100% number that you want to have is the commitment level to maintaining a homeostasis within the relationship. Yeah, I was thinking of another thing my therapist said. It's getting a lot of airtime in this episode. but, you know, about not having the bandwidth to do 100% in everything. And I'm a very, like, visual person.

I need someone to explain it to me. Like, I'm a kid sometimes. And he's like, you know, the grass is greener where we water it. We hear that all the time. It's like, great. And he's like, but you don't have an infinite amount of water. So you need to take from other areas sometimes. And sometimes it does mean that you're giving less to your work because you're giving more to

your kids and your husband or you're taking less from your, you know, marriage and you're putting it into whatever it is. Like it's a constant juggling, I think, and like reallocation of that water to make things work. Because we don't, we're also like, we only have so much energy. We only have so much energy. Yeah. That's absolutely right. I think you, you know, you go through different seasons and we all go experience this. If you're launching a new business, then you're probably going to put a lot of your time into that. Anyone who is an entrepreneur or small business owner of any sorts knows exactly what I mean. It takes

like there's no 40 hour work week, right? And so I could be experiencing things that with my kids and I might notice one of my kids needs a little bit more time or attention or I need to end. I need to allocate a little bit more time there. Sometimes my marriage needs a little bit more time. Sometimes

I need a little more time. So like you said, it's the constant reallocating and like you have to reflect. You have to continuously think through how the system is running and decide what is most important to get the priority. You have to determine what the priority needs to be at that moment. Yeah, how do you do that?

Well, you always start with yourself is what I've learned. I would say it's really that's the difficult thing to put into practice for me personally. But as long as I'm constantly aware and I'm always reminding myself, I need to do something for me. I need to do something for me. And it could be really simple things, but just taking a little bit of time for myself and for my body, like you're going to go work out after this. And I'm very proud of you.

Thank you. Because I've been struggling to get in the gym. It's not good. Yeah. So kudos to you. But I think that it's just being in tune with how you're feeling and being in tune with your relationships and checking in constantly is what helps us to kind of reallocate that energy. You talked about rectifying things. Do you think everything is rectifiable?

Oh my gosh. Is this a therapist in me talking or is this Nina talking? Either. I do. Honestly, I don't know why and what it is. I feel like I just have so much grace for people. I, like I said, once I'm in something, I'm truly in it. And I don't know if I would call it making a lot of excuses for people or for situations, but I do believe that if I have the capacity, I will allocate however much capacity I have to extend grace to someone who's going through something. As far as rectifying relationships, I don't know. It just depends on if that, I feel like there's a purpose for this relationship in my life or is it just something that is taking, taking, taking from me. Sometimes there's a point in a relationship with a friend maybe that who

might be going through something and your role in that relationship is to be support and to offer support and maybe you're not getting too much in return at that time. But like I said, everything is through seasons. Like we're not going to drop that friend because they're going through a period in their life where they're having a hard time and they need more support than they have to offer. So it's something, especially when there's a history of that friend being respectful or being supportive or reaching out or being there for you during your time of need, right? That's just called reciprocity. And so I think evaluating, you know, things and constantly reflecting on your relationships will be, is a good way to determine if something is worth

rectifying. It just there can be endless possibilities. But as a plain and simple answer, I don't believe in burning bridges. Yeah. I think that even though we grow apart and we maybe are as close with some people in our lives, you never know what the future holds, right? And there's a way to gracefully and peacefully bow out and take space rather than ghosting and doing mean things. Yeah. Let's be honest, we all have that pair of killer heels in our closet that killed our feet so we don't wear them anymore. Maybe we have some jewelry that our ex bought us. Whatever it is, consigning with the real real is the best way to let go of something that is no longer you and get paid for it. So this is my absolute favorite way

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That's the real, real.com slash well. Again, realreel.com slash well. I'm sure a lot of you listened to my episode a few weeks ago with Dr. Mascarro. We recorded at night, but we were particularly clear and energetic, and that is because we had neuro gum before we recorded. He gave me this gum. I had never tried it before, and it was so good.

it really provides this natural energy and focus. It's powered by natural green tea caffeine. It has L-theonine for that nice calm focused feeling. It has vitamin B12 and B6 for better mood and metabolism. It has no sugar, no aspirin, no crash, and it can be shared like we did or enjoyed on the go anywhere and any time for that discreet and good energy, just chew and go. What I love about this is that unlike sugary gums or sketchy energy drink ingredients, Nero is clean, effective, and actually good for you. So think of it as your smarter, faster wellness ritual. So for work, workouts, or carpooling the kids from their activities, I also love this because I don't like to drink a whole matcha in the afternoon.

I just feel like sometimes it's a little bit heavy and I want to be focusing on my water and hydration. So this is that easy way to just get that extra pep in my step. Neuro also offers caffeine-free options for all-day wellness support. Neuro's memory and focus gum are made with American ginseng to support mental clarity minus the jitters. And Neuro's sleep and rechargements offer melatonin and chamomile to help you unwind and rest without pills or sugary gummies. This is not candy. It's functional wellness designed for true everyday focus.

And now for a limited time, you can get 20% off your first order at neurogum.com. by using the code well. That's neurogum.com. The code is well for 20% off your first order. And you can also find neuro at CDS and Amazon. What about cheating? This is something that a lot of people ask about. And I'm sure in your world, not in your relationship, but being married to an athlete, that tends to be a common thing that you hear about at least. It's definitely a stereotype. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like that would be so. hard just with the schedules and always being gone and like you have to have a lot of confidence and security in yourself to be in that relationship and you clearly do but in general what is your view on cheating I feel like this is something that's happening so much maybe because of like

the accessibility of people now with the apps like I hear so much and I see with my friends that are single you know like these guys just will not commit or like they're always looking at what else is out there it's not always the guys, it's women too sometimes. But what is your view on that? And, you know, does it just depend on the people, like, and the commitment and the intention of the relationship? I mean, if the question is, do I think a relationship can be rectified after cheating? I mean, short answer is yes. I'm a huge Esther Perel fan. I'm sure you know anyone in wellness would know who she is. And she talks about relationships and cheating in a way that, you know, can certainly be rectified.

And I think that it comes down to whether or not both parties are willing to put in the time and the energy and the effort in order to move forward. Any time trust is broken in a relationship, it's really hard. to re-garnish and re-establish trust in a relationship, especially after cheating. So I think it can happen as long as two, both parties are extremely committed and in improving in the relationship. Yeah, I feel like I would not be able to rectify that. You know, and that's a very real thing. I know a lot of people who are like, yeah, you wouldn't want to rectify things with me

after you cheated on me, I don't think you would survive. Oh. Because it would be a challenge and you'd have to really be up for a good fight. Yeah. I mean, my boyfriend and I had a conversation after I had another guest on maybe a year ago who was talking about cheating. And this guest said, like, you can have a conversation with your partner and establish like, what is cheating to you? First of all, because we might have different ideas of what is cheating.

And then, you know, you can go from there and, like, talk. about is that something that you think you would be able to get over? My boyfriend was like, yeah, I would get back together with you. What? That is okay. That is really interesting. Yeah. And I was like, never. Yeah. Like, I just can't because I have too much like, too much like past stuff. Like, I just know that I wouldn't be able to trust ever again. No, I'd be like, what are you doing on your phone? Like what, like, I just have that hypervigilance already from like old trauma. I. I think. Like it's so hard when I think one of the biggest things that people experience, if you were the party who was cheated on, is becoming someone that you didn't intend to be.

Right. It really shakes your confidence. It really shakes your security. And it really shakes, you know, just everything and your approach to life and relationships. And it, and you kind of turn into this person who you almost at the end of it don't even recognize. And I think that's the hardest part for a lot of people because that's the thing that we have control over. And unfortunately, the actions of someone else really deeply impacts you in a way that takes you away from being yourself. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure it's like a trauma in some ways because I heard somebody say once, like it's denying you of your reality, like when that happens to you. Because you think that your reality is one thing and then you find out that it's not. Yeah, you start to question everything. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm way too paranoid for that. I want to finish on codependency. Is codependency ever healthy in a relationship and to what extent? Or is it just called something else when it's the healthy version? codependency. I feel like codependency was the first therapy speak word that we really went viral, I guess. say even before narcissists. I was going to say. Like it was like it's the OG therapy speak word. No, I don't think that codependence can be healthy. And the reason I say that is because I think independence is necessary in relationships. If you can't be independently yourself in a relationship, then it's hard to feel free. And I think what we all want is,

like we're trying to find the balance between our freedom and our ability to operate and live our own lives and make our own choices and decisions and how to also stay connected to someone or a relationship. It could be even with family. It's something that we kind of learn as we grow. We learn to leave the nest. the process starts when we're just babies. First, we learn the skills that we need to learn,

and then we want to figure out how to do all of it on our own, and we don't want help. And then we realize, oh, maybe we do need a little bit of help. And then we, like, tiptoe back into that independence again, right, around 18. And then, I mean, now it's like 23. But I think, and then it's, It's like, so now how do I, I feel safe and I feel like good about who I am. I'm in a decent place. Now, how do I open up enough to let other people become part of my decision making process and let other people have influence over my life in a safe way that I can still maintain my independence?

And I think that's what the balance becomes as we grow old. or in relationships. Because, you know, again, it's up to you to make, create your own happiness. And so that's what you have to do. And in order to do that, you have to be an independently thinking person. Yeah, that's like the theme that I'm getting from this whole conversation, which is refreshing because I think that we do often hear conflicting information about, you know, focusing on other people first and things like that.

No, no, not. You won't hear from me. I'm all about putting myself first. Yeah. I love that though because at the end of the day like you're stuck with you. I'm stuck with me and you know I'm doing like don't get me wrong. I have so much that I'm navigating and juggling. I'm responsible for three humans and a dog and I also am responsible for a relationship and my relationships with everyone else in my life. And so I think that if I didn't take care of me first and if I didn't put myself first then I would just be too spread thin and I wouldn't be able to show up in those relationships in the best way that I can and and I really learned that

you know honesty is just has been a huge part of my journey like I will full disclosure anything prior to any environment or situation and say this is what you can expect for me and set the table. Even when I don't feel like doing things and I do it because I know deep down it's going to fill my cup by going to a late night dinner with girlfriends, like I don't want to go out when it's dark. I don't want to leave my house when it's dark. Me neither. But I know when I get there and I see my girls that I'm going to be, it's going to be a good reset for me. So it's just the battle is getting out the door. But when I sit down, I'm like, I'm tired. I don't have too much to contribute, but lay it on me. Like, I'm just going to drink my wine and, like, sit back and be my

normal self and stare at you and nod and you love me anyways for it, you know? So that helps me to fill my cup. And I think that's the balance. I love that. I'm going to start doing that too. And I can relate a lot because I don't want to do anything ever at all. And then I do things. And then I'm like, driving home and I'm like, I'm so happy. I feel so good. Like I feel that my cup is full again. And then I have amnesia and I forget. And the next day I have something and I'm like, I don't want to do it. I have to remember that. That is the battle is getting there, but I like laying out expectations and just being really upfront. Well, where can everybody find you? You have an amazing podcast as well and a wellness platform. Yeah. You can follow me at Nina Westbrook on Instagram and

B'nai by Nina with an ex. Benet X. Nina on Instagram for my wellness platform. You can tune in to my podcast, do tell relationship podcasts, where we talk all about relationships all the time. So that's fun. Anywhere you listen to podcasts. Amazing. Thank you so much. Thanks. This was fun. Yeah. I hope you enjoyed that episode. If you liked the episode and if you like the show in general, please take a second to rate, review, and subscribe. It goes such a long way in supporting the show. Follow the show over on Instagram at well.pod. You can also follow my personal Instagram at Ariel Lorry. I'm always sharing great clips. from the episodes, and we also have full episodes on YouTube as well if you want to watch

in entirety. Thanks for listening. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.