Well with Arielle Lorre - 426: Money, Power & Confidence: A New Playbook for Women ft. Maggie Sellers Reum

Episode Date: December 3, 2025

Maggie Sellers Reum is an investor, founder and host of Hot Smart Rich. She joins the show to break down what it really means to be hot, smart, and rich financially, emotionally, and energetically. We explore the difference between being rich in time vs. rich in cash, how women can finally get a seat at the economic decision table, and the practical steps to building generational wealth through conscious spending, angel investing, and smart diversification.Maggie shares her journey from the corporate world to working with Post Malone, the surprising lessons that shaped her career, and how she learned to stop molding herself into a version she didn’t recognize. We talk capitalism reimagined, cost-per-wear vs ROI, getting equity in companies, and the biggest money splurge she doesn’t regret.We also dive into the emotional side of success: how to find your passion, when to leave the wrong relationship, becoming securely attached, reframing anxiety as a source of wisdom, and the small habits that create compounding interest in every area of life.This episode is a masterclass in money, mindset, confidence, and creating a life that feels truly rich.Follow Maggie @maggiesellersreumThis episode is brought to you by:Visit fieldofgreens.com and use promo code WELL for 20% off.Head to boncharge.com and your 25% off code will be automatically added to your order.Visit quo.com/BLONDE for 20% off 6 months. Go to justthrivehealth.com and use code WELL for 20% off your first 90 day bottle of Just Thrive probiotic. Get 20% off your first order by visiting foriawellness.com/BLONDE or use code BLONDE at checkout.Visit fatty15.com/WELL and use code WELL at checkout for an additional 15% off their Starter Kit.Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.Produced by Dear Media.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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a podcast about wellness in all its forms. I'm Ariel Lori, and each week I'm sharing unfiltered conversations with people shaping how we feel, live, and look. Come for the substance, stay for the honesty, and leave with the tools to be well, inside and out. I'm totally stealing this line from my guest today, but I want to open with this question. Are you guys ready to get hot, smart, and rich? I hope you are because I'm talking to Maggie Sellers. She is the founder of Hot Smart. The host of the Hot Smart Rich podcast. And I've been wanting to have her on for so long because not only is she's so smart, but she's so bold and she's really carved out her own path in what could have just been a kind of typical trajectory in the corporate world. So this episode is part money.

It's part mindset. It's part relationships. It is so empowering. Maggie shares her journey from, like I said, the corporate world to carving out this lane. for herself and for others. She really has a service mindset when it comes to hot smart rich. And she wants to empower other women. And I know that you're going to feel it in this conversation. She talks about what she learned when she worked for post Malone. We talk about everything from angel investing, the ROI of your closet, why capitalism doesn't have to be the enemy, how to get equity in companies, even if you are just starting. We talk about being rich in time versus rich in cash, why so many women are left out of the decision tree where money flows, and how to

actually build generational wealth. So I know you guys are going to love this conversation. Please enjoy Maggie Sellers. I want to talk about the relationship. We're rolling. Yeah. Are we rolling? Okay. Perfect. It's very inspiring. And I feel like you broke off your engagement around the same time that I got divorced. And I remember seeing your content. And I was like, okay, there's somebody else like going through this in very different ways. But I want to start with. some lightning round. Okay. This or that.

I'm new to flashcards or not flashcards. Is it out a lot of pressure? It's just, I'm so used to doing it on my iPad or my phone. Yeah. Because I have a flow. Okay. And this, I'm like, I don't know where things are. So I was just saying, I need a branded, like, iPad cover.

Yeah. That's the solution. You would think, like, seven years into this. Is it been seven years? You've been doing it? In April. My God, congrats. And you rebranded when?

Rebranded September 2024. So last fall. Yeah, it's like fresh. I remember it being like, oh my gosh, this is new. I love it. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. It's hard. It's like, you know, anything. Doing it for so long. How do you stay relevant? How do you iterate? How do you evolve? So it's balancing. Totally. I think also it's interesting because podcastings become so relevant recently. But seven years ago, it was still so new and like no one took it seriously as a job. But even being in myself now, not just guesting, you realize like how many things have to go right for an episode to do well. my God. And that is something that I don't think people, everyone's like, I'm just going to start a podcast. And I'm like, you know how hard it is to actually do a podcast well? It is like a full business, like running a startup. Yes, exactly. Yeah, I feel like when I started back then, I think there were a few hundred thousand podcasts, but of those, the ones that were active and the ones that were charting, I mean, it was such a small group. And so it was a lot easier to kind of be on the top. The one thing I will say to give you your flowers is obviously, I'm sure we'll talk about this. I'm an investor in a lot of brands. And, the highest performing podcast that one of the brands has ever done in like the five years. And actually one of the highest performing marketing assets in general was your podcast. They still convert like a few people a month from that episode that was filmed like three years ago. No way. So that's crazy. So you might have like one of the most die hard wellness audiences I've ever met. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. Thank you so much. Yeah. I mean, we see that reflected with ads and

retention with my sponsors and all of that. All of that is amazing. But okay. So let's get. into the kind of quick lightning round, this or that. First, I wanted to ask you, fuck Mary Kill, hot, smart, rich. Ooh, that's a really good one that no one's asked me. Mary smart, for sure, because looks fade, intelligence stays forever. Fuck rich, because that would just be a really fun date, like Mr. Gray vibes in the helicopter, and date hot. Good to look up for a period of time.

I love it. I all of a sudden, like, went to the men of, like, who I would fuck Mary Kill. But even for myself, same thing. Yeah, I was going to ask you. Okay. Date the billionaire or be the billionaire? Be the billionaire. Soft life or power couple grind.

So my husband and I actually call ourselves a purpose couple. We're really anti the power couple. Everything we do, we measure in like how much purpose and impact can we make. So immediately I was like, no to the power couple. But what was the first option? Soft life. I think I do both. Like I think I have purpose and I lived a very soft life.

I love that. pre-nup or peer trust pre-nap we'll talk about that too that's like one of my favorite topics by the way yeah people have such a misconception about what it actually is and I know that you've done episodes on this rich in time or rich in cash that's a really tough one because I think the more stability you have to buy your basic needs the more you can enjoy your time so I would say of course now it would be time but I love what I do. I love purpose. And I think when you do that, cash come. So I don't know if I could choose that one. It's like both. I think of that saying it's so cliche, but like when you're young, you trade time for money and when you're old, you trade money for time. Well, and it's interesting.

So even for myself with a business now, I value my equity of my company so much more than I value someone's salary. Like I would way rather negotiate with cash than I would with giving a piece of equity of my company because it's so much more valuable to me. But when I was starting out, I was like, someone just like come and help and I'll give you equity for this. But now that has become the most finite resource in addition to time. So I guess time, if I had to pick, but definitely both. You're so analytical. I love it. High risk, high reward or slow, steady growth. Okay. As it comes to financial, definitely high risk, high reward. As it comes to building a business, slow, steady growth, and they're very different, which we can get into later. Okay. We'll bookmark that.

Okay. Last one, money or freedom? Freedom. Interesting. I think money buys you freedom. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Okay. So hot smart rich. For anybody who's not familiar with you, talk about the evolution of this and where it even started. Yeah. It's in a while since I said like an origin story, but I think it goes back to being young and like every founder solving a real problem is solving it for themselves. And it's something I faced a lot growing up in the corporate world. I always felt like I had to choose my feminine, energetic, bubbly self from hiding that to be taken seriously in the workforce. And I will never forget my first boss ever at Salesforce literally pulled me into a one-on-one meeting and said, if you don't change the inflection in your voice or the way that you

present yourself, you will never be taken seriously here. And for so long, I have molded into a different version of myself to try to fit in or follow what I thought looked like success. I feel like people going into the workforce out of college don't even know how many opportunities and career paths you can take. There's a very specific way to live your life as they tell us. And that's what I was doing and that's what I was on. And I felt so suffocated. Like I genuinely felt like I had to leave myself at the door every single time I left my house to go to work that morning. And over time, it was like, you know, a thousand paper cuts, like cuts really deep. It was a problem that I was like, I have to be able to fix this. I started seeing all of these celebrity brands getting built

and we would idolize these women like Haley Bieber or Kim Kardashian who could be fully authentically themselves and build billion dollar companies. And I was like, why is the average person not able to do that? Why am I being typecasted to a stereotype based on the way that I talk, the interests and hobbies that I have outside of work. And then I started looking at the math and the numbers and market sizing. And I was like, women control 85% of consumer spend. We are the ones that like buy the diapers, buy the groceries, buy the beauty products, buy the clothing. Why are we not at the decision tree of where money is flowing in this economy? And then I started looking at the fact that female founders get 2% of venture dollars. And this math wasn't mathing for me. And I was like, I wonder if I can build. a platform, a movement. I didn't even know it was going to be a company, but I knew I didn't want to become known as like Maggie Sellers. I wanted to become the Hot Smart Rich girl, which I feel like most people don't even know my name. They know Hot Smart Rich. And now they're starting to know me. And I'm like, it was truly a movement of being like, I wonder if I can change perception

by branding this as a media company from the day I started. So like, I remember setting up the accounts for Hot Smart Rich, even though they were idle the same day I started setting up TikTok accounts for Maggie sellers. And that was always the intention. And now it's grown into like, obviously a movement. I feel like people come up to me being like, I'm living such a hot, smart, rich life because of you. But now it's really becoming a real media company where we have resources and a platform for people to actually learn and feel like they are leaving our content, understanding something that they didn't know before in a very approachable way. And it's just so exciting. Yeah, it's amazing what you're doing. I've learned so much from you. And I mean, I love it because it's just.

you're completely breaking down stereotypes and cliches. I'm curious for you, which pillar do you feel like you embodied first, hot, smart, or rich? So it's funny. Like I, when people try to take away the pillars from one another, I'm like, it's an essence. It's all of them because that's the problem I was solving for. We're like on the weekdays, maybe I thought I was like super hot going out. But then I had to leave that all at work when I was going into work. And so I think like, I don't know if I necessarily know which when I identified with first, but I always fundamentally believe and I do this with a daily practice of these HSR love notes that I do publicly. I talk about like all of the affirmations that I want and they kind of

cover all of the pillars. I have fundamentally always believed I was going to be successful. I knew there was going to be struggle in that. I knew it wasn't going to be easy. But even in the really low moments, I would honestly think to myself like this is a part of your story. Without struggle, there is no story. You have to go through this. You can't just get through things. You literally have to go through them. And so, like, even in my lowest of lows, whether it was calling off an engagement or being rejected from my dream job, like I was rejected from Shopify 11 times. And now to have worked with them as an influencer is like the craziest thing ever. I would still think to myself, like, bring that hot, smart, rich energy. Bring that hot smart rich energy. And so it's been a, an energy that I've brought to almost everything. But I haven't necessarily,

identified with one over the other, like even the rich thing. I was saying this today to someone earlier. Like, I am not a personal finance expert really. Like, if you want to learn how to invest your money in the stock market, like you're a rich BFF, Mary Hall and Nader is doing something in that now. Like, I am a bet on yourself, take big swings, invest in startups, invest in yourself type of gal. And so the rich part, I was investing. My first angel investment check was $2,500. Like, it was not 25,000. Now I'm investing $25,000. But instead of buying a Chanel bag five years ago, I was like, okay, I'm going to buy a network. I am not going to go and spend $250,000 on an MBA. I am going to get into these deals. I'm going to learn. I'm going to network and I'm going to leverage this.

And so I don't know if people thought I was going around calling myself rich when like I wasn't rich on paper. I was smart with my money to get rich by thinking, how can I buy a network versus having to go and spend $250,000 on an MBA? And that was really how I first started thinking about angel investing. And that is, instead of putting it into the stock market, it's putting it into buying into a company, which was not really done from people that hadn't had a big exit even five years ago. It's only starting to become something that people are talking about. Yes. And And I love that you bring so much awareness to like how much power you actually have in setting up your financial success in all of these different ways and not just the typical like finance bro way. Totally. And I would say, listen, to be very clear, I am a capitalist. I think that is something that is really good to call it from the beginning. I am a conscious capitalist. And I think the way I live my life is very rational, very long term focused. But it is I buy into capital.

And I think for me, it's really around figuring out like, okay, I want to be able to make money, have businesses. I want a diversified life. It is being really conscious with my consumption habits so that it doesn't get out of control. And I'm able to really understand why I'm purchasing something. Every single big purchase I sit with, I do not buy anything. One, I don't really buy anything on sale, truthfully, unless it's like the Sephora sale. But like I'm not going down to the row sample sale because I know it's probably not something that I actually want. Yeah. It's something that I feel pressured to get. And so I think for me, it's really good to think about everything I do is very consciously making a decision. And then I learn from that decision. Like, it sounds really nerdy, but I truly do A, B,

test everything. Like, I think about everything in the way that, like, I would a business decision. And that's why sometimes even with stuff like cost per wear versus return investment, the way I think about that is like a return on investment is something I am going to make money from. I am not thinking about things as how much does this go down every single time I wear it. So for example, things like Gucci or Celine, those are cost per wares for me. They're not return on investments. Something that I would categorize as an ROI is like an RMEZ bag or a Chanel bag because those have amazing resale value.

So it's down to that level of even categorizing different designer brands to be like, is this an investment or is this just going to get me a really good cost per wear? That's really good advice for any sugar babies out there too. My boyfriend and I were talking to one of his friends last night. This is like a total tangent. But basically he was like dating this girl. And she was trying to like get, you know, bags and shoes out of him as many 20 somethings do. Like no, no shame in your game. But my boyfriend was like, God, she really played him so well. And I'm like, no, she didn't. If you really want to be smart about it, you're buying jewelry. Maybe you're buying Hermes. You're buying Chanel. Oh, because of resale. Yeah. I was like, where are you going with it? Yeah. Yeah. That was my really convoluting. way. That's amazing. Yeah, advice. If you're going to buy stuff, don't go for Gucci and YSL. And, oh, I haven't watched it yet. Oh, okay. Spoiler. But like first episode, that whole thing comes into play. Oh, it does. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, yeah. I went from building startups on the brand side to working for talent as a way to, a way to, you know,

negotiate equity for different talent, not just post, but like a bunch of people on the roster. And I had no clue what I was doing. Brands would come to me that were early stage and we're like, we want to start working with a talent. And instead of cash, because we're early, we want to offer equity. And I literally called my sister, my now business partner, who was the head of finance at like a multi, $100 million brand. I was like, I am being asked to evaluate if this is an equity deal we should look at if it's going to equate to what bud light or a different type of company would pay a celebrity today. No clue what I was doing. And from that, this was five years ago, almost six, I started realizing the power and ownership in actually being able to see something early,

ride with it for a period of five to 10 years, and then be able to have so much more money than a brand partner could ever offer you. And when you are working for some of the largest talent in the world, you get amazing deal flow, which is essentially how you get in on all of these deals. And I was like, okay, if I'm seeing this for the talent, I bet you that I can start to offer my skills as a way to actually negotiate equity. I don't have money to give yet, but I'm going to offer advice and see if I'll be paid in equity. And I started going to companies that I was really passionate about and really believed in and through my network that I had built and like, can I offer you brand marketing strategy in exchange for equity? And over time,

everything in life, like the secret is compounding, compounding growth. So like if I had 0.5% equity in this brand and I got another 0.25% equity in this brand and then another 0.5% equity, all of a sudden you start to have real ownership in different companies. And when you're building a portfolio, you really want diversification. You don't want, if you only have $10,000 to invest, do not put that all into one thing because nine out of 10 startups will fail. So I was like, okay, I'm not going to put all my eggs in a basket, which is essentially what employees do when they go and get ESOP. Like they're working for one company. They have equity that they're negotiating. And every single thing that they do is tied to that company. So if that company

fails, then you're you're kind of starting over again. So I just started really understanding the power of ownership and the power of building something outside of my nine to five. And it was never competitive. It was like, I just need to start like really doing things that inspire me and are different than what I'm doing nine to five, but also hedge my bet a little bit. And then I just started growing from there. You heard about like Alex Earl getting equity in the poppy deal. Do you think that this is something that you're going to see bigger creators doing moving forward? I heard that and I was like, that is so fucking smart. So smart. Yeah. And okay, to play a little devil's advocate. And I don't know the details of that deal. But that was a really late stage deal when it came to Alex. Yeah. I wondered how much he would have gotten from that. Yeah. So it's like again, perception reality. Sometimes I invest for the perception of it. And sometimes I invest because it's actually a really good investment. and I very rarely talk about it and it's boring and it's infrastructure and it's like that is a bet that I'm making for a completely different reason than building the network. Like there's such different motivations for people. So with that deal specifically, it's really hard to say how good

of a deal that really was because I don't know the valuation that she invested at, right? And depending on investing for me is all about risk and reward. So is the risk of putting this money up worth the reward? And if it is a very early stage company, you have to think about that money being locked up, aka you cannot touch it until there's a material acquisition or exit or it goes under. So it's basically bye bye to the money for five to 10 years, right? With that one, Alex is looking at a very short runway of like risk to reward, right? So she's probably on the inside, you get a lot more details. She's able to evaluate the opportunity of like, okay, there's rumors of something, a material acquisition happening in the next one to two years, definitely smart to take equity,

even if the reward isn't a 10x, which is what. most investors are looking for. She probably saw, I would assume, and I know nothing about this deal, but like a two to a four X, I would assume she saw as a return on her investment. But to answer your initial question, yes, we are about to see such an inflection point of creators that understand this have incredibly smart teams behind them that have experience in investment banking, venture capital, corporate finance and are able to understand which deals they should be investing their time into, anyone can invest their time. And it's cool because you can learn from celebrities. If you have a skill set right now, if you are an expert at digital marketing, go and find companies that you

would normally want to go work at and negotiate equity for yourself. The same way that Alex Earle uses her competitive advantage, which is her distribution and her relatability and her conversion ability to be able to go and negotiate deals. But I, it actually keeps me up at night because I think in my head, how can I own the conversation of investing? Because like, this is something that I've been doing with distribution, both on the talent side and for myself now. And I think it is only about to just be a waterfall of people. Like I just saw Peyton start and do it. And she's like, you inspired me to do this. And I'm like, this is going to become how most creators build generational wealth. Yeah. I'm thinking of like cast amico too with shopmai.

And I think she was early. She's like an advisor. And I know that she had equity in it. And I think their valuation is what, like 1.5 billion now. Yeah. So yeah, I think that a lot of people as the creator economy is evolving, people are figuring out that like you can really get wealthy. Like, yeah, you can make quick transactional money like for the last five, 10 years. But now it's completely changing. And it also, it's a mutually beneficial partnership with the brand, right? Like, you are an owner. If you don't know anything about venture capital equity, what you have to remember is like equity is really just ownership in something. You are literally, like technically a founder, not like you're a founder, but you are an owner of that company, a very small piece of it.

And so you have a mutually beneficial relationship as a brand when you have creators that are invested in your long term success. It's not as much nickel and diming down your deliverables of like, but you paid me 20K for X amount of stories in posts because you're like, if I work harder, if everyone works harder here, the valuation of the company is going to be a better outcome for everyone that's involved, aka everyone will have a better outcome. Yeah, you definitely inspire me to. Now you're like, I want to go invest. Well, yeah. I mean, especially like for me, I've been doing it since 2016, since 2018 full time. And, you know, there is a certain level of burnout that comes with just the back and forth of the brand deals and the kind of deals that are being put together. And

my team and I have been really firm in the last like two years of coming back and, you know, saying no to essentially whatever the brands proposed. Because it's like, the 2018 model, you know, of this many stories, this many posts, say this, don't say this. And then we give you this flat rate, you know, and it's just like, it doesn't, it's not worth my time anymore. And I love what you're saying about like, it's mutually beneficial. It's mutually motivating. You know, totally. And it's more creative. Like, you can come up with different things. And because it's not measuring it on a CPM basis anymore, it's actually, they will give you more creative freedom to do what they think will work best with your audience, which now being on all three sides, like investor,

founder and creator, I still do not understand the brands that are like, this is the exact script. This, I'm like, you aren't going to sell anything. So unless your goal is brand awareness, this is not going to work for you. It is crazy to me how many brands are still stuck on that and have not evolved and are not adaptable at all whatsoever. Like, they're investing a lot of their money in these creators to convert. And, you know, we know our audience best better than they know. And so hopefully brands will catch up. It doesn't make sense to me. The ones that are like so stuck in their ways. I'm like, you cannot be getting a return on this. Like, no. It's crazy. If you are an avid listener of my podcast or if you follow me on social media, then you know that I love red light therapy,

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HSR is so successful because you're so clear in your vision and your execution of that and you're passionate. And, you know, you and any other entrepreneur would say, like, if you're not passionate about what you're doing, you can't do it. No. It's not sustainable. So for people listening who do feel like they're in that stuck place and they either know what they're passionate about, but they don't know how to execute it or they don't even know what their passion is. Do you have any advice for them? Yeah. I think if I could do everything over again, it would be, I did it this way, but I think for me to tell someone right now who feels like that, it is to get super clear on who you are as a person. I think it is so easy to right now see something working for someone. And my sister and I use this analogy a lot

because I'm very extroverted, very, I love raising money. Like, I love fundraising. I love asking people for money. I love being able to sell a story. That is my sister's worst nightmare. And she is a chartered accountant. She was in corporate finance for a decade long career. She was the head of finance managing 25 people.

So you would think that she loves money, loves fundraising, all those things, right? We had tried to start businesses in the past before. And we always ended up getting into big fights because we were very unclear about like who each other were and what our skill sets were because society tells you certain things. We make patterns. There's recognitions of like, oh, if you're good at math, you must be good at money. You should go into wealth management or fundraising or those things. But actually, I would say being a salesperson and being good at talking to people and selling a vision and hiring people is a very fit person for a CEO rule. So the first thing is like, you need to know what you are naturally good at.

And instead of looking at people and seeing all of the headlines, there is a lot of really successful people who also have a lot of backseat roles in organizations that like aren't as glamorized, but have incredible lives, incredibly successful fortunes and don't necessarily have the same headline as like, let's say Stephen Bartlett, who just raised that I just talked about, right? Like everyone looks at that and is like, I'm going to become a creator. But you have to be so clear of like, is that something that you are actually going to enjoy? What is your motivation for that? And so I think the best things that I solve for, there's a really simple analogy. You have a headache. Are you going to reach for an Advil or are you going to reach for a supplement? Actually, wrong person asked that too because you might reach for a supplement. No, I go to Advil. But you know what I'm saying? Like there's painkillers and then there's vitamin pills. And in every business, the highest chance you have of success, you are building a painkiller. Something that a consumer will do nothing to get in their way to stop that problem. So if you're not building for an

actual problem. You can't even decide, like, if you're even building a vitamin pill or you're building a painkiller. You really want to try to hone in on a problem, know who you are, and then build a solution that's going to solve a real problem. I think that I see that even with creators. People want to be a creator because they want to make a lot of money. They want to get in. They don't want to have to, they want to get PR packages. To your point, you will burn out so fast. It will come off across as inauthentic. And even for me right now, I'm at a really interesting point where we're like finally reaching mass scale. And like I am not for a lot of people.

And I'm okay with that. And I can handle the haters because I am so clear on the consumer that I am talking to. It is me in my 20s, in my 30s. And I'm sure as I go into my 40s, like that feeling of feeling like I can do something with my life. I have purpose. I am powerful. I want to bring my authentic self to the forefront.

I am solving for that person. So the haters don't distract me. But if you're just trying to be a creator to be a creator, as soon as you get that first Reddit thread or that first hate message, like you are going to be out of there. Yeah. So I think it's the first thing and anything in life is like if you feel stuck, you have to ask yourself why and then just solve from there. I remember when you made a TikTok video like months ago about that very thing and you were like, I am not for everybody. Like I'm very polarizing. And I think I probably commented because I could relate a lot to that. But I remember

when I first got my first Reddit thread, negative Reddit thread, which I've never been. never actually looked at, but I know it exists. Yeah. You're better than me. Actually, I looked once when I was like separated from my ex and the things that people were saying, the theories, I was like, this is actually insane. And I was like, I can never look at this again. But I was like, oh, this is a good thing because this is a scale thing. That comes with scale. If you don't have that, you're not reaching enough people. And so I take it as like a good sign at this point. Totally. It is hard for sure as anything is hard. Like life is hard. And I, always say pick your hard. Like if you want to live a certain life, it is not going to be easy. It is

going to be hard. There's challenges. Even with dating, even for myself, like an alpha male. I am not used to dating an alpha male because I've always walked all over people in relationships. That adjustment was hard. But I would rather pick this hard than I would another hard. So life is hard. Pick your hard. That's a great pivot to the relationship stuff. I wanted to focus on the other stuff first because, I mean, you're so impressive. And, like, I just, I really believe in what you're doing. And obviously you do too. And it's so inspiring.

And I know that, like, so many women are going to listen to this and feel really motivated and inspired. So I didn't want to make it all about the men. Thank you. However. Apparently, Reddit things I make my husband my entire personality. So here we go. Oh, my God.

I mean, whatever. It's like, I can't even. Somebody sent me a Reddit thing about me today. And I was like, I just can't. And by the way, I think that this is something that is. important to talk about and why I talk about it just for everyone to know. My worst fear was building this amazing company with as much money as I wanted and not having anyone to share it with. Like that was actually when I thought about a nightmare, that was it. It was also a nightmare to be with the

wrong person and feel like I was sacrificing things. And so I think my story of like calling off an engagement, leaving, finding someone who actually empowers my dreams and makes me feel like anything is possible is a story that women want and deserve to hear because all the time I hear dating is so horrible. Men are so terrible. I can't find anyone. And so I do share a lot about my relationship because it's a personal experience that I have. And it's something that I feel deserves airtime because I don't want women to think, oh, if you are going to be successful or if you're going to be a businesswoman, you can't have a relationship. I think you can have it all. Yeah. And you've said about your now husband that, you know, he sees your light. And

he makes it brighter. Whereas in your prior relationship that you called off the engagement, you felt like your light was being dimmed, right? Totally. So we don't have to get into like the whole story of it, but something that I think resonates with so much of my audience is how to know when you're in that wrong relationship, when is it time to leave versus when is it time to work on things. When I was really open about my divorce with my ex, like it was difficult and it sounds like it was kind of similar to what you were going through because he's not a bad person. And, you know, it wasn't like one specific thing happened where it was black and white. Like there was no cheating.

And it was that would have been so much easier for me than to have to grapple with this decision of like, okay, this is a really great person. It came with the lifestyle, which I know that that was something that you had with your ex as well, meaning that it was a very comfortable life, right? Like I knew what life would look like. And I knew that I was like secure in a lot of ways. And so it was this really gray area. And it was like, I had to do the big girl thing. which I had never done before, which was so hard, which was like remove myself from that situation, which was the most terrifying thing because it's like, where am I going to go? What am I going to do?

Like, you went through it. So you know. So when you were going through that, what was the moment that you realized, this is not, it's not the relationship for me? I think honestly our stories are so similar. And I remember actually, I never said at the beginning. But when you were going through it too and I was too, I was so happy you were talking about it because I was like, oh my God, I'm not alone. So I honestly echoed this. same thing. And I think that is the really interesting thing, too. Just another side note. Like, people rallied around me when I was at the lowest of lows where like I didn't know where I was going to live. I had all of my stuff in storage. Like I really felt so lost. And it was like such a

rally around. And it's been interesting to see like now the comments of like, okay, now this is like annoying. And it's like, but don't, aren't you happy to see women go from literally like not knowing where they're going to live and all of their stuff being in storage and feeling like a total fucking failure to like having an amazing abundantly filled life like where is the excitement for that we are so drawn to people's weaknesses and to people's lows and i i really want to start to just feel like people are there to celebrate the wins too because otherwise like what is the point of all of this you know i think for me going back into that head space now being with my husband not everything is easy with my husband but it feels easy it's a very fine line between a

it not being easy, but feeling easy. Even when we're arguing, it feels easy. And I just remember everything with my past relationship feeling so hard. Like, it felt impossible. I was like, I, I don't know how we are ever going to get through this or see eye to eye. And even with my husband, I feel like that TikTok trying when it's like my current husband to their face, you know, like even with my husband, who is the most supportive person, even when we are arguing, somehow it just feels like there's going to be a resolve because both of us are fighting to the problem. We're not fighting each other. And I think I genuinely felt like I wasn't living a fulfilling full life with my ex. I constantly doubted myself. I constantly felt. So it's interesting now because my attachment

style, I would say is secure, but it leans actually a little bit more anxious now. whereas like my attachment style in previous relationships is extremely avoidant, like extremely avoidant. And I would actually say that I can be toxic for my ex the same way he could be toxic for me. Because if he was an anxious person and I was an avoidant, that's a recipe for a really bad dynamic. Whereas with my current husband who is so secure, I am secure. And so I think it's also about the fit, right? It's about identifying. do I like myself with this person? And that was ultimately when we were dating, my husband and I,

I wrote I ran in my journal every day. My questions for myself was like literally, do I like myself around this person every single day? Did I finish this day liking this version of myself? What qualities of mine came out? What skill sets did I explore about myself? What did I learn new today? It was never about him. When I read that journal now when we were first dating, it was never about him. It was always about me. And I think that stemmed from when I was in my last relationship. I feel so sad for this girl. I read those journal entries and it's like, I feel so trapped.

I feel so upset. I feel like I'm not understood. I feel like I can't be myself. I feel like I'm never going to be able to find a way to make this work also about myself. So that's why when I started dating again, I was like, how can I write journal entries that reflect the mirror of what I actually want this little girl to be writing in her journal. So when I was dating my partner, it was always about me. It was never about him. And I'm sure that that creates a very magnetic energy as well. And I can relate to that.

So I mean, to a T, it was like with my ex and I love him and we're good and all of that. He's an amazing person. But when it's not the right fit, everything is so hard. Every conversation was so hard. We just were never like, and I know that you guys went to therapy and we were in therapy. And it was like, oh my God. And I thought, okay, well, maybe we're relationships are work. Like you hear that, you know, exactly. All the time. And, you know, conversely with my current boyfriend, you know, I couldn't relate more. It's, it's effortless, even when there is conflict, you know. And I think of this hostage negotiator. I can't

remember his name. Chris Fawn. Chris Fawn. Chris Foss. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So he would always say, like, if you're negotiating, whether it's with a business partner, a partner, whoever it is, a hostage, the adversary is not the other person. The adversary is the issue that you're negotiating on. And I remember with my ex, I always felt like I was the adversary and I couldn't understand why. And I look back on my old journals too, usually when I'm on flights. I like go through and I like to read and, you know, see how far have come. And now it's like a true partnership, you know? It's like, and I know that you've said with your husband, like you never have felt like this before. Never. And that's how I felt too. I was like, oh, this is what a real partnership is. Like,

We're on the same team, like always. For sure. And I think that's, again, why it's so important for people like you and I who have been through different iterations to talk about it and why I will never stop talking about it because I do think that it is something that is important for women to understand. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I know that so many people like circumstances are different.

People have kids. People have financial struggles. It's not always easy for them to leave. But, I mean, I look back and I think that. That was one of the most confidence-inducing things that I've ever done in my life. Yes. Yeah. I mean, it was like one of the scariest things I think I ever did, aside from like getting sober,

was walking away from that relationship. And the person that I met on the other side, I was like, oh, shit, I can do anything. Yeah. If I could do that, I can do anything. Yeah. And then you know your worth in other relationships. And I think for me, I didn't know my worth fully. I always had high self-worth, but I didn't understand what I was bringing to things,

especially when you have dated someone who has been more successful and is older. Like you don't even understand what you add to the relationship. And I think that power dynamic, if I hadn't have gone through what I had been through, even with my husband now, like our power dynamic would have been completely altered because I went through so much self-work and self-worth confidence boosting that I knew. what I was bringing. I was never intimidated to be myself. And like, I also didn't feel like I had to pretend to be someone else that I wasn't. And so I think that really helped me ultimately find the right partner. You said something interesting. I'm just curious. You said that you used to be avoidant.

Now you're secure in a relationship, but you lean a little bit anxious. Why do you think that is? So I'm an anxious person. Yeah, me too. In general, I get anxiety about every single thing. And the thing that I get anxiety about is things I care about. And I actually watch this really interesting clip on Diary of a CEO where it was someone talking about if you could hire someone who was anxious or not anxious, who would you hire, he would hire the anxious person. Because that is a symbol of being, you care about something. And I think for me, not that I didn't care about previous relationships, but I was so focused on myself. And I was really selfish in previous relationships. I didn't find someone that I wanted to sacrifice for. So I was never anxious about

my relationship. And I don't know if that means I didn't care because I do think I cared to about the person. But with my current relationship, it's the same level of anxiety that I have towards HSR to my friends. Like even my friends, I have anxiety over. I'm like, if they don't text me back or it's been a few weeks, I sometimes even think like, oh my God, like, are they mad at me? And I just made this really interesting video a few days ago that was like, I prioritize low expectation friendships over low effort friendships. And there's a huge difference. It's like low expectations are safe and secure. They don't need you to text them back right away. They're not passive aggressively being like, hello question mark like you've been posting on instagram well it's my job yeah the safe and secure

relationships you have with your friends are the ones where like you can go and live and build your best life and you show up for each other you support each other you're there for each other they know that you know that you're there when when you need to be but it's not that passive aggressive conversation so that same level of anxiety i even have over friendships i just now have in my relationship i wouldn't say it's like an anxious attachment it's more i care so deeply about my relationship. I'm so secure with it. But I would say it's the same level of anxiety I have with my job, my career, my friends, my health even. Like everything I care about has an element of anxiety to it. And that's a good thing. Yeah. Yeah. I identify with that so much. That's why I was curious.

Yeah. I was like, oh yeah, I feel similar. Not in like an anxious, like anxious about him or the relationship, but just that deep. And you know it's so good that you're like, oh my God, it's like with my, with HR. And I think I hope that stays forever because I've watched people. go through the cycle where they get success. They're a completely different person. Their ego gets inflated. And by the way, that's when things fall. Like the story of Blackberry, he was not at all concerned about the iPhone.

And he is obliterated now. And it was that ego that was like, things won't ever grow away from me. And then you stop innovating. You stop evolving. And I think the same thing is true. Like, I never want to get on that side of the pattern where I stop caring about things that I'm excited about because we've had success or we have a great relationship. I think a level of anxiety, people don't talk about that enough as a good thing.

It means you care. It means you are going to develop and you're going to put resources into something to continue to develop it. I love that reframe as an anxious person. But I can relate. It's like, yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed with the things that I care about. And sometimes the excitement feels like anxiety as well. And it's just figuring out which one is it.

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Like when you're just like, I am her. Okay, I just signed a really big deal that I can't talk about, but I just signed it last week. And my sister was beside me. My husband came to the signing dinner. And I was just sitting at the table and I was like, whoa. Like I have built my dream life and it actually like I am never one that can't have words. I leave the dinner.

My husband driving. My sisters in the backseat and we're like, holy shit. They're talking and I couldn't speak. I was like, I just did the damn thing. Like I have built myself into a life that I'm so proud of and so excited about. And I did it with my family and my partner and it wasn't choosing one or with the other. it was the most hot, smart, rich signing that I feel like was a moment I just sat back and was like, yeah, I'm her.

That's amazing. I heard you talking about this on your podcast, so I can't wait to find out what it is. But this is the one when your sister was like, you shouldn't be the one. Or your husband was like, you shouldn't be the one negotiating. And you were like, actually, yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yes.

And I love that. Power move. I think, you know, obviously context matters. He was more saying it in the way where he was like, you need to make sure that if things go south, which in 99% of deals like this could have happened, that you aren't the one on the front lines. But I just had a gut instinct. And I think that was the moment where I was like,

I'm going to do this. And it worked out. But 99% of the time it wouldn't have worked out. And he was like framing for the 99% of the times that it wouldn't have worked out. He's got your back. Oh, fully. He is like I said,

legitimately the most supportive person where I feel like sometimes his life his ages are. Yeah. I love that. Well, he's the chairman. He is the chairman now. Yes. I love you to do your research.

Yeah. Okay. What's your biggest money mistake? Okay. Let me think about that one. I guess it's a good thing. Like nothing comes to my head. Yeah.

I know. I mean, I got to say this. Truthfully, there hasn't been a huge decision that I've made that I've been like, oh my God, I have made a crazy horrible decision. I will tell you there was one point in time based on breakups and moving cross country and like having committed to things that I was paying three different. payments for housing at the same time. I was paying half of a rent with a former boyfriend in LA. I was paying my mortgage in Toronto. And then when I had moved out into a new place in LA,

this was like when I first moved here eight years ago, I was paying another lease. And so like, I was carrying three costs. And I think going back to that mindset of like why I had just solved for short term immediacy when I knew it wasn't the right thing. And so obviously paying three different rents at one time is like crazy. So that was not necessarily. a mistake that I made, but it was just not being conscious in like my long-term future. And I wish I could go back and not have that happen to me. I've been in that situation. Yeah. What is one luxury you will never give up? My health, like investing in my health. I think it is so important. I've been having a lot of digestive unexplained problems right now. And so taking my foot off the gas of discovering what is actually

going on, I wish I had just taken more time and I am taking more time now. But life gets busy, business gets busy. And so sometimes your health takes a backseat. And I'm at the point now where I would actually say I'm like the least strong I've ever been. I honestly sometimes struggle to open a door because I haven't lifted heavy weights recently. And I think my health, I need to like reprioritize even in terms of the investment I put into it and really make sure that is at the forefront because we only have one body. And when that is gone, like it doesn't matter how smart you are, how much money you have. Like you don't have something that can take you from point A to point be, that is something I will continue to spend money on. I love the honesty. Yeah. And it's like they say,

cliche, health is the ultimate wealth. It is. Yeah. Yeah. What is the most underrated smart move you've ever made? I think when I first started getting those offers to exchange equity for big talent service deliverables, I noticed something. I didn't just do my job. I was like, this feels different. This feels like a change. I'm going to get really curious about this. I don't know. I don't know. what I'm doing here. I'm going to try to learn as much as I can from experts. But I knew that things were shifting away from big brand dollars towards more of these equity deals. And I wouldn't be sitting in this place if I hadn't taken that little tidbit of like some things here, started getting curious about it and then start doing it for myself. Hot tip for instant confidence.

Meditate for a minute. I love that answer. She's looking at Tesla. She knows. I am such an anxious person. And like I start every single meeting and I'm just like heart bounding like my sister has to tell me on the side. You need to stop talking so passionately because people think you're like angry. And so now every single time I need to either calm down or get confident. I literally will breathe on a phone call or in a big meeting like before the signing. I just breathe for the minute. If you do like traditional meditation or if you're interested at all. I'm a little bit of an evangelist about this app that I'm doing with Sam Harris. Okay, what's it? Waking up. Oh, I haven't heard of it. My ex told me about it because actually I saw him maybe six months ago and I was like,

what's happening? I'm like, you're a lot lighter. You know, he has a very stressful life and carries a lot of that weight on his shoulders, I think, and he has a certain demeanor about him usually. And he was just like, chilling. Yeah. And I was like, what are you doing? And he was like, oh, I'm doing this app, waking up. And he and I did Transcendental Meditation for years. He's been like a seeker spiritually, you know. And so he's tried all different kinds of meditation. He was like, this is the one that like stuck. It's 10 minutes. It's called waking. Waking up. I'll send it to you if you want. It's like mind blowing. I need that. Yeah. I would love that. And it's like, and it's not in his whole thing is he's like, people think that you meditate to like be calmer or to be happier. And that can

absolutely be like a byproduct of meditation. But it's more to kind of recognize like consciousness and what even consciousness is and detach yourself from who you think you are and to recognize the thoughts that then structure your perception of your life. But it's so simple. I even feel like another big thing for me is gratitude. Like truly feeling like lucky for the day and lucky to be able to do these things and actually putting that into practice. Like I do these ages, our love notes every single day. I put them on my story now because I just felt like I wanted to share what I was grateful for and it could be something so simple. But like, even just practicing gratitude is such a great way to ground yourself and like what reality is. Like I always say this to my sister who has a young

child. She's traveling a lot for work. Workers are like picking up. She's constantly having to be away now. And I'm like, but wouldn't you rather this than like being in corporate finance at a startup where you're underappreciated, underpaid. Like yes, you work at a cool brand, but like you're not actually changing lives. Whereas we get messages from women of like leaving the bad relationship. raising their first seed round and starting their angel investing journey. And it's like those are really impactful moments that we get to see and sit on and be like so grateful for this opportunity to do this versus it's so hard to be away from my son. Like we constantly talk about that with each other. Yeah. And those are the moments where you remember your why. Because, you know, when you're in it and

creating content day in, day out and putting it out there for the world and investing and building your brand and all of that, like it can start to feel, you can have moments, right? Where you're like, where's this going? What am I doing? And then you get that message and you're like, oh, yeah. Totally. And it like brings you back to your purpose and reality. Yeah.

And gratitude is so helpful. Okay. Last one. Okay. Actually, I have two. Rich mindset quote that you live by. Compounding interest. It's not even a quote, but just like if you take anything away from this in this episode,

everything in life compounds, whether it's a skill, whether it's reading one book every single day, whether it's making like one smart investing decision a week or a month, like everything in your life will get better when you start compounding your growth. I think it is so underrated and it's not talked about enough as it relates to both your financials and also just your life in general. Your habits and all of that. Yeah. I love that. Okay. Smartest investment you've ever made. It doesn't have to be financial. Oh. Okay. So investments are something that make me, money, right? So there's a bunch of things I could take this. But I would say when I sold my house in

Toronto and moved to L.A, I got an E2 visa, which was putting like $150,000 into the U.S. economy into like an actual business. It couldn't be like into investments. It was like into my business. So it was like hiring people, website development, brand strategy, whatever. And at the time, it was the scariest thing I've ever done because I pretty much had $150,000 in my savings account. like that was everything. And to go from a really secure asset like real estate to like a really unknown thing where I was kind of betting on myself, I didn't even really know what the company was other than starting to consult and do SPVs at the time. It was definitely not hot, smart rich even back then. But I just knew like the American dream was the place that I wanted to go

and build a business. And if I was going to be able to take risks, it was going to be here. And so putting all of that money into a company to get an E2 visa to legally be able to stay and work here was the scariest decision I've ever made, but it has paid off in spades of just being here, living the life that I am, the company that I've built, the husband that I found, the friendships that I have. Like, that is the one really pivotal decision in my life where I think back, if I had been scared to make that, I would not be anywhere close to where I am today in any capacity of my life. And so to anyone that's like considering a big move like that, I can't say whether 100% it's going to work out or not, but it's so worth the risk to try. And even if you fail,

that's part of your story, I always tell this to people. Like, everyone wants a podcast or a story. And I'm like, you have to fail to have a story. Otherwise, what are you going to talk about? Yeah. So even in those moments where things are bad, even if you've risked everything and it doesn't work out, part of your story. Keep going. And so I think back to that time I wired the money. And I went up and I presented my case to the immigration embassy in Canada for the U.S. And that was the single best hand decision I've ever made in my life. That's amazing. That's a huge bet on yourself.

Yeah. Yeah. But I heard you say something that I loved. You were like, I've always known that I'm special. And like everybody should believe that they're special. If you don't believe that you're special, you're not going to be successful. And I think that people bristle when people make, you know, comments about that. But it's like, you should.

You should be your biggest cheerleader. You should bet on yourself like that because, you know, you're going to be. going to be the first one to do it before anybody else does. And you know, you're stuck with you. Like, you can have an amazing husband. You can have amazing coworkers, you know, partners, whatever it is. But, like, you come first and foremost. And I would say, just as an outsider, another investment that you made was leaving that last relationship and taking that time to heal, which we didn't really talk about. But, you know, you really took that time for yourself. You didn't jump into anything else. You weren't feeding your ego, I heard you say. You took that time to get to know yourself. And then

when you started dating your husband and dating other people before you met him, exactly what you said. Like you were focusing on yourself. How does this make me feel? Like you invested that into yourself as well. And I think that that's really inspiring for people to hear. So you're so sweet. Thank you for saying that. So you're amazing. Tell everybody where they can find you and where they can get hot, smart rich. Okay. Well, we drop episodes every single Wednesday. We have a newsletter. That's definitely the more businessy, girly chat on Sundays. Those are both just at Hot Smart Rich. And then that's on Spotify, YouTube, Apple Podcasts.

And then for myself, I'm actually going through a name change right now. So I changed my middle name to Sellers. Myta made a name. Still don't have the Instagram, Maggie Sellers, Ream working on it. But it's either Maggie Sellers or Maggie Sellers Rame everywhere else. I'm like, part of the show notes. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me.

I had so much fun. Me too. Thank you. I hope you enjoyed that episode. If you liked the episode, and if you like the show in general, please take a second to rate, review, and subscribe. It goes such a long way in supporting the show. Follow the show over on Instagram at well.pod. You can also follow my personal Instagram at Ariel Lurie.

I'm always sharing great clips from the episodes, and we also have full episodes on YouTube as well if you want to watch an entirety. Thanks for listening. Hi, I'm Mary Alice Haney. And I'm Dr. Taiz Ali Abadi. Dr. A, as she is known, is a world-renowned OBGYN. And together, we're launching a new podcast, She-M-D, to empower women to become their own health advocate. We're providing women with the knowledge and tools to really own their own health.

With celebrity guests and today's leading experts, we're dropping episodes every Tuesday. So listen and subscribe on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast, so you never miss an episode. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.