Well with Arielle Lorre - 467: The Skincare Step You’re Skipping (That Changes Everything) + Best Tips for Redness, Acne & Barrier Repair with May Lindstrom

Episode Date: July 8, 2026

May Lindstrom is an esthetician, formulator, and founder of the cult-favorite luxury skincare brand May Lindstrom Skin. After overcoming severe eczema and building one of the world’s most beloved natural skincare brands, she’s developed a completely different philosophy on skin health.In this episode, May shares the surprisingly simple step almost everyone skips before applying skincare—and why she believes it can completely change how your products perform. We also discuss how to repair a compromised skin barrier, her favorite ingredients for redness, hormonal acne, seborrheic dermatitis, uneven texture, pigmentation, and keratosis pilaris, the difference between temporary glow and true radiance, why hydration goes far beyond aesthetics, and the skincare practices most consumers have never been taught.This episode is brought to you by:Head to armra.com/WELL or enter WELL to get 30% off your first subscription order.Go to CLEARSTEM.com/WELL and use code WELL at checkout to get 15% off your first order.Head to paleovalley.com/well, or use code well at checkout for 15% off your first purchase.Go to fatty15.com/WELL and use code WELL at checkout for an additional 15% off their Starter Kit.Visit www.Sarahcrealbeauty.com/well to get 15% off your first order.Use code WELL for 20% off your first order at thisisneeded.com. Visit vuori.com/well for 20% off your first purchase. Head to ladder.fit/WELL for a 7-day free trial and $10 off your first month.This episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct, or indirect financial interest in products, or services referred to in this episode.Produced by Dear Media See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a dear media production. This is Well, a podcast about wellness in all its forms. I'm Ariel Laurie, and each week I'm sharing unfiltered conversations with people shaping how we feel, live, and look. Come for the substance, stay for the honesty, and leave with the tools to be well, inside and out. Today's guest is somebody who I have wanted to have on for such a long time. I think we're talking about five years here because I first learned about her.

and her products when I went on Breaking Beauty in maybe 2021 or 2022. I am talking about Mae Lindstrom. She is the founder of the luxury skincare line that bears her name. But more than that, she is somebody who thinks about skin in a way that feels completely different from almost everybody else that I've had on the show. And a few of the tips and hacks that she shares in this episode, maybe I wouldn't even call them tips or hacks. I think I would call them philosophies or approaches have truly changed the game.

when it comes to my own skin. So the first thing that I have to say is that she is truly radiant in person. Please just go take a peek on YouTube to see her skin. It is not in a filtered Instagram kind of way. Her skin is incredible, but it's also her energy. She has this playful, joyful, almost childlike curiosity that is contagious. And after spending time with her, you start to realize that those two things might not be unrelated. So most of the skincare conversations on my podcast are with dermatologists, and clinicians, which I love because they are so evidence-based, but May approaches skin through a different lens. She thinks about barrier health, hydration, inflammation, ingredients, ritual, and how the way we care for our skin reflects the way that we care for ourselves.

I especially found her approach to hydration, groundbreaking, and that is one of the things that I have changed in my own routine that I said had a really big impact. Her advice is practical. It's deeply thoughtful. And honestly, it changed the way. way that I think about skin care. So today we're talking about everything from redness to acne, eczema, and repairing a compromised skin barrier to why moisture and hydration are not the same thing, but why they are both so important. We talk about the biggest mistakes people make with their routines and why truly healthy skin goes so much deeper than wrinkles or glow. I know that you are going to love this conversation and come away from it looking at your skin and skincare differently.

so please enjoy May Lindstrom. Okay. What is your favorite ingredient for redness? Oh, Blue Tansy. The past. By the way, I just have to say, I first learned about you through Breaking Beauty in, God, I think we did a podcast swap in like 2021 or 2022.

And you know that they love Blue Cacoon. They had it with them, actually, and I smelled it, and I was like, oh, my God. What is this? It's like nothing I had ever smelled before. Well, Blue Tansy. is wild because yes, it gives that, it gives that gorgeous blue color. It's actually a little yellow flower in the Daisy family, but the process of distillation, it turns into this deep blue,

like break open an ink pen blue, but especially because of the high commasaline levels. So it's incredibly good for rosacea for inflammation for any kind of heat, redness. And I'm a super sensitive girl. So that was like finding that, like first in a library book as a teenager. I didn't get a real sample of the plant until my 20s. And then that launched in 2013, it was the first really blue tansy formula of its kind. And it's where all the, all the other ones have come from since then. I know. I was going to say there are quite a few products with blue tansy. And we're going to get into all of that and like what the actual difference is between your products and others. But we will circle back on that. What is your favorite ingredient for

dehydration? Well, the word hydra is in dehydration. And you can't have hydration without water. And so I actually think that the most important part is skin prep. It's not a product that you buy. It's not something I can put in a bottle. It's what happens at your sink or your shower. It's that moment in the shower and the steam and the warmth with your fingertips where you feel your skin go from like outside protective skin to being an actual open receptive organ that can drink in whatever is to follow.

So you can have the best moisturizer in the world. You can use the best treatments in the world. But if you haven't prepared your skin to actually open and receive, you're wasting your money and you're wasting your time. How do you do that? Get in the shower. Keep your products in the shower. Use them when you're in that state of like warmth and open because what happens is we do all of that. We're in the shower. We do all of our stuff. And then we towel dry. So we're just pressing bacteria into ourselves. We're taking off all that water. And then we get out and we've got our outside skin back on. And then we try and put on our oils and they sit on the top. But if you really want them to

feed in, you have to give them the environment where you're, you're, you're, you're, you're skin can suck it up. Because they're all hydrophilic. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. Water is important. Yeah. Water is number one. And I mean, everybody watching on YouTube and on the clips, your skin speaks for itself. You have that kind of radiance and hydration and all of that that that you can tell does come from within. It's not just surface putting on a bunch of ingredients that have film formers and make your skin look kind of reflective. And, you know, then it washes off at the end of the day. 20 years ago when I started building maylindstrom skin, my skin was covered in blistering rashes over my whole body. So I did not always look like this. This skin was well earned. It is. Well, I loved your story about when you were younger too and you had a very specific childhood and then

you went to a friend's house or something and you used some products that they had there and you reacted. Just basic soap. Just the surfactants in basic soap. The preservatives in just a common cream or lotion will break me out in blisters and rashes. The kind of sensitive skin that's not just like, oh, I got a little irritated, but the kind of sensitive skin where I touch the wrong thing, I have to sleep with my hands covered in pillowcases and my arms tied in bed, so I won't scratch myself until I'm bloody, like, extreme. For me, it's genetic. I have the same skin as my mom who has the same skin as her dad.

Really? This is part of the package. Yeah. Is there a condition that contributes to that or it's just very sensitive skin? The specific condition that I get, that's the worst, is dyshydrotic eczema. Okay. which specifically happens on the hands, most specifically on my palms, even when I was in school getting my ascetician license, which I put off for two decades. How am I going to do that?

I love that you just did that. Yeah. I finally was like, I can do it. It's fine. I'm strong. The very first day that I moved from like using like the hobah oil that I snuck in, which was against the rules, because I was working on a mannequin. I'm like, the mannequin won't tell. The second that I moved past my hours and could work on a real human, I had to use the school's products. And it was the sensitive line, like basic, basic cleanser, toner, moisturizer, nothing crazy. We weren't doing acid peels. It was a basic, basic facial. Yeah. One facial. I woke up that night. My hands completely on fire. This was last year. Yeah. So I'll tell these stories about two decades ago, I'll tell these stories about myself as a

five-year-old walking into my friend's bathroom and using the hand soap. I'll tell the story of being a teenager where my entire arms were just covered in blistering rashes. But This is the only reason it's not happening now is I've really learned actually how to take care of this organ and accepted that this is the body that I've been dealt. And so I have to feed it in a particular way. I love that you honor the fact that it is an organ because I think a lot of people kind of forget that part of it. And they only think about the aesthetics of it versus the functionality of it and thinking about it as far as like longevity it goes. So many reasons why we have to keep our skin healthy besides just how it looks. But obviously, how it looks is what cells. I've worked in skincare for more than two decades. And so my clients will

come to me every day and that asks me, what do I do about the wrinkles? What do I do about the redness? What do I do about the acne? And we can't do anything about nothing until your actual organ is soft and receptive and can receive. And so I'm always focusing on moisture and hydration is like a single number one. I can't go any further than that. And so my body gives me all the reminders that insist that I pay attention because otherwise I become literally dysfunctional. When I had that one facial at school, it took three months. Three months, one facial. And so the level of incompatibility with my body is so extreme that there's not a choice. It's like having a peanut allergy. It's like not casual. Got it. And so for me, it's not about being green. It's not about being clean. It's not about

some like, ooh, I'm going to take super good care of my health. When I don't, my organ ceases to function and my body literally falls apart. It's extremely painful and also looks crazy. Like when I was a kid, I'd walk into, when I say a kid, like my 20s, I'd walk into a grocery store and little kids would hold onto their mothers and ask what was wrong with me. Like it was just devastating to be in this body. And so learning how to care for it was self-preservation. And so, and I can't hold my child's hand. I can't pet my dog. I can't lift a box.

Wow. Well. Yeah. Force is my best behavior. Yeah. Got it. Okay. Let's do a couple more.

What is your favorite treatment or approach for a compromised barrier? I mean, leave it alone. We throw so many products and so many ingredients and so much just shitty self-talk at our own our organ is struggling. And so can you cook? cushion it? Can you soften it? Like, take as little as possible. I always, I try and think of our skin the same way as I would think of like a lung. And if I imagine holding a lung in my hands, it's this soft, soft tissue, so vulnerable. And so if I imagined our whole body scooped up in that

same way held in my hand, just precious. And then you imagine everything that's in your cabinet, I mean, just like the dozens of products that we accumulate that, you know, we read this article in that article and listen to this podcast. This person told us in the neighbor and the mom and the friend. And all of the things that are in there. And if you just imagine pouring that all over it, especially when you're in that open compromise state, makes my body want to turn inside out.

And so I just think, can I just smooth it over with butters? Can I just soften it with waters? Can I say something really lovely and sweet and soft to myself so that I can really soften all the way through? I think that's where strength comes from with skin is when it actually has the ability to be soft. I love that. What is your favorite approach for hormonal breakouts? Clay?

Yeah. Yeah. Really specifically, have you tried the problem solver? No. Oh my gosh. I know. Okay. I know.

Well, you're getting exactly. Is that the clay mask? There's two different clay treatments that are primary, the problem solver and the clean dirt. The clean dirt's really wonderful for. I consider it a brightening exfoliant. You have to put words on the bottle, so I call that one a brightening exfoliant. But that one's really good for skin conditions that you can see or touch. So hyperpigmentation, discoloration, post-acne marks, but also like flakes texture where like when you're wearing foundation or concealer and everything just isn't really sitting right or the texture is funny or all the little flaky stuff, even suborac dermatitis, all those kinds of things.

The clean dirt's wonderful for that, things you can see and feel. the problem solver is like what you feel underneath. It's when you feel hot, when you feel flushed, when you feel itchy, when you feel the breakout come on, when you just feel out of sorts in your skin, just feeling kind of icky. And so I rotate both of those. Both are a combination of different clays and salts and herbs, fresh powdered vitamin C that activates fresh. So they start as these powder formulas and then you add water and they bubble and fizz and they puff up into a moose. They feel warming and amazing and incredible. but they take out the heat and they really like reset the actual physical texture of the skin.

So it's like the single most important part of your skin ritual is moisture. And so I always talk about that first. But once you've dialed in moisture and hydration, you can start really affecting the tissue. What is what it looks and feels like. We hear so much about gut health, immune health, hormone, all of these different pieces of wellness. But something I've learned is that so much of it starts with. supporting your body at the cellular level. And that is one of the reasons why I have kept Armour in my routine for so long. I have been taking Armour Calostrum consistently for as long as I can

remember at least a few years. And what I have personally noticed is that my digestion feels better. I deal with less bloating. Overall, I just feel more resilient. It's one of those things that isn't about a quick fix. It's about supporting your body from the inside out. I'm also able to eat more things than I could eat before I started taking it. So I think that it actually helped to really heal my gut in that sense. Armacolostrum is a bioactive whole food packed with over 400 nutrients that help strengthen your gut barrier, support immune health, promote cellular repair, and even support healthy skin, hair, and metabolism. I also love that it's so easy to work into my day. I just mix it into water and that's it. I love the flavors too. And they have

travel packs so it's easy to bring on the go. So if you've been looking for something that supports your overall health, not just one specific area, I definitely recommend checking it out. And I've worked out a special offer for my audience. You can go to armor.com slash well or use the code well at checkout to get 30% off your first subscription order. That's a rmr.com slash well. I probably don't have to tell you this, but something that a lot of women around my age deal with is trying to balance acne and aging. Yes, they can both happen even in your 40s. It feels like you are constantly choosing between products that will help breakouts but leave your skin dry or products that support aging skin but end up clogging your pores. And that is why I love clear stem.

Their whole philosophy is that you shouldn't have to choose between the two. Their products are made with zero pore clogging ingredients. So they're designed to support acne prone skin while also fitting into an anti-aging routine. I also like that. they don't just focus on one hero product. They've really created a full system from the inside out. So whether you're looking at their cleanser, serums, moisturizer, or even their supplements, everything is designed to work together. So you are supporting your skin from multiple angles instead of just chasing individual breakouts. And if you've ever felt like you're stuck choosing between clear skin and healthy looking skin, clear stem is definitely a brand worth looking into.

I love their skin spray all day. It's their hypochlorous acid spray. I like using it when I'm traveling to prevent any bacteria from getting in my skin and causing breakouts. I also love their bounce back serum. I was very heavily into it in my no-botox era and I swear it kept those fine lines on my face plump. So I have partnered with Clearstem for a while now and I'm so excited to share this offer with you. My listeners, you can go to clearstem.com slash well and use the code well a checkout for 15% off your entire order. That's clearstem.com slash well, code well for 15% off. I have to admit that I have a bad habit of reaching for either sugary or carbly snacks when I am feeling hungry. So I'm always looking for snacks that actually keep me full, especially while I'm traveling,

and don't necessarily spike my blood sugar. So airports, long travel days, running from meetings, those are the moments when it's so easy to end up grabbing something that is. convenient, but does not really make you feel great. And that's why I love Paleo Valley's 100% grass-fed beef sticks. They are made with, obviously, 100% grass-fed and grass-finished beef. They are fermented for gut health, and they don't contain the fillers or added sugars that you find in so many packaged snacks. In fact, I did an episode with one of the founders of Paleo Valley, Dr. Autumn Smith, and we were talking about how those fillers can actually be the things that trigger reactions, whether they're allergy-related reactions or gut reactions, and I don't experience

that with the Paleo Valley sticks. I love throwing a few in my carry-on because they're shelf stable, they're high in protein, they're actually satisfying. So whether I'm on a plane in the car or just need something between meals, they are one of those things that I always like to have on hand. It's honestly such an easy swap if you're trying to eat more whole food protein forward snacks without sacrificing convenience. So right now you can head to Paleo Valiolese. So right now you can head to paleo valley.com slash well or use the code well at checkout for 15% off your first purchase. That's paleo valley.com slash well or use the code well at checkout. We are talking so much about healthy aging these days, but most of the conversation focuses

on what we can see from the outside. And what I find way more interesting is learning more about healthy aging at the cellular level. This is why I'm so intrigued by fatty 15. It's based on C-15, which is the first essential fatty acid to be discovered in more than 90 years. The research behind it is actually fascinating. It all started when scientists working with the U.S. Navy were trying to improve the health of aging dolphins. And that research led to the discovery that C-15 plays an important role in helping support strong, resilient cells, which are really the foundation of long-term health. So more than 100 studies have now looked at C-15.

and researchers have found it helped support healthy aging by strengthening cells and protecting them from age-related breakdown. It's a really different approach because instead of focusing on one specific outcome, it's about supporting your body's health at the cellular level, which can have a downstream effect and not just improve things like cell membrane integrity, but also help to support things like mood and sleep and liver and metabolic health and immune function and so much. more. So Fatty 15 is on a mission to support healthy aging for all, including all ages and stages of life. You can get an additional 15% off their 90-day subscription starter kit by going to Fatty15.com slash well and using the code well at checkout. I love that you're a skin chef. That's like my favorite terminology that I've heard and sitting here talking to you. I'm like, oh yeah, that's exactly what you are. Yes, it totally tracks. And I know that you. And I know that You know, you were mixing these like lotions and potions when you were a kid.

You have such an interesting trajectory of your life. Can you give us kind of the truncated version so that people have the context of like, how did you become so knowledgeable? Obviously, your own condition forced you into this area or this expertise. So, you know, in a way, it's a gift, right? It's like a double-sided coin, I'm sure. But what does that backstory just so that the listeners know? Like, how did you even get here?

Okay. So my first memory that you referenced, I was five years old. I went to a friend's house the first time without my parents. I have like dinner and a sleepover and I go to wash my hands before dinner. And I'm in the bathroom and there's two unlabeled bottles and they were all fancy and pretty looking. And I didn't know any of that. I was born in a bar and I was raised by hippies. I like grew up quite quite different like little house on the prairie. That would have been my dream by the way when I was younger. Until you have to pump the water to fill the bath. I would have loved that. I mean, I used to pretend I was like churning

butter. Like, I wanted that life. It's good until the 60 below winters when the outhouse is the bathroom that you go to through the snow. Okay, I'm out. It's a little far. See, I didn't really have friends until I had a car. So there was a big gap in there. But that first memory, I got to wash my hands. And as soon as the soap touched my hands, and I'd just been really protected. We didn't even realize that we were protecting me. We just grew up trading like goat soap from the neighbors. And so I didn't realize the actual state of my body. And as soon as that soap touched my hands, I started yelling. It was just instantly hot and painful. And I was a really shy, introverted kid. And

friend came running and the parents came running and the whole thing was mortifying and scary. But I learned, oh, I can't use soap. When I went into school, started kindergarten that year, then it was a daily thing every time I would go to use the public restroom anywhere, even just shopping. clothes for school, the chemicals they would spray to keep bugs out in the warehouses I was allergic to. So I just always had to wear secondhand clothes, which suited us. I got all the hand-me-downs from like three layers of brothers ahead as it was. Again, no friends until high school. But my favorite memory growing up is around my skin is my mom would bring me down to the river that ran through our land. And we would sit on these big rocks over the water and pull clay out of the

river and cover our bodies. And she would take me to the gardens that she grew and we would gather herbs and flowers from the garden and mash them into potions and cover our skin with that too. And this was so important for a couple of reasons. One, it brought play into this conversation with skin that was otherwise really painful and scary. The other thing that it did was so practical. It taught me that clay took away itch. It taught me that green plants take away heat. These became fundamental to just my understanding of how skin works. So that little kid potion making grew into me as a teenager riding my bike into the little town, going to the library pre-internet.

But checking out every book that there was on what women have done since the beginning of time. We've gathered clays and salts and herbs and oils and butter and honey to clean. to cleanse and care for our bodies. And this ultimately led into my 20s. I was making bespoke formulas for people like me who had genetic inflammatory conditions, psoriasis, eczema, dermatitis. Also, a lot of women who were navigating the cancer journey moving through the effects of chemotherapy, radiation, and also burns, injuries, scars. So really very directly addressing tissue in health. Nobody was asking me about wrinkles. They were asking. me, how do I keep this organ in one piece to carry me through not just today, but for my whole

life? And that was really my mission. There was a point where you were living out of your car, right? Oh, yes. Okay. So in my town, I mean, I grew up outside a town of 800 people in northern Minnesota. High school comes around. I think you've got a couple of directions. You either stay or you go. I left home when I was 15. I moved to Minneapolis. I did a two-year arts program outside the city there. And then a couple of days after I turned 18, I got in my car headed west to California. So that was the idea I was going to go until I hit the ocean. I ran out of money. Both happened at the same time.

I'd been working in restaurants since I was. So again, background does come back to food. So because I had worked in restaurants, you know, for five years at that point as an 18-year-old, I had a job history. I'd been living on my own for two years. I'd saved up a little money, not much, but enough for the road trip to get out. there and what I assumed would be enough to, you know, pay first and last month move in somewhere. I was thinking about this. It wasn't a total wild hair. But the reality of being an 18-year-old living

in-car moving to California turns out you need in-state references. And I didn't know that. When I'd left home, I stayed in the same state. And so I found my way. But coming out to California was a whole different thing. And every $50 that I would spend to turn in an application for an apart $50 after $50 after $50 where I'm competing with 200 other people for this apartment. And I had no in-state reference. I had no in-state job. You couldn't get the address without the job. You couldn't get the job without the address.

And I just ran out of money. And so I ended up spending several months sleeping in my car, looking for a job, trying to find my way. Twice a week there was a women's resource center that I could go to and get a paper bag of groceries, use their showers. but every morning I was peeing on the curb. That was the very, very glamorous start to my California tale. And it was at that time that my skin broke out in the worst outbreak of my whole life, which also made me essentially unhireable. Again, if I couldn't even touch water, my hands were so broken up.

I couldn't pack a box. I couldn't work at a restaurant. I couldn't do any of the things that I had backgrounders. training and so it was these were desperate times. Yeah. So at what point did you start to make these products for yourself and for others and realized that this could be a job? Well, I mean, I had made, you know, simple little formulas for myself, literally my whole life. But it was around that time that I went, what, what do I know and how can I help this? I didn't have any money. So that was a real challenge. I didn't have a mailing address. That was another challenge. So it took a few other left turns in swirly gigs

and another left turn and six more left turns where I eventually ended up in New Orleans and I had an experimental injection. I was taking all of these experimental drugs. I just made myself a guinea pig for all the people who were studying skin like mine and ended up getting this experimental injection in my butt. And it left a hole, right? Left a hole the size of of my fist. Oh, I didn't realize it was that big. That stayed there for like two years. Oh my gosh. And you're in your 20s at that time? I was 20. 20. Okay. Yeah. 19 and 20. But it actually worked. I still don't know even what that was because it was experimental at the time. I know they have a bunch of different injections now. And so it was probably one of those that they tell you not to use because it'll make you infertile. Like give me anything. And it reset my sister.

I still had to obviously pay attention still for a lifetime, but it resetted enough that I could go back to working in restaurants. So I was working in restaurants. I had an address. I had enough money to eat meals. And I started ordering ingredients again. And this was also early days of the internet. And so I was able to actually find some of these ingredients that I'd only before read about in books.

So I was cooking. I was still working in restaurants. I was also working as a makeup artist, which really did be kind of. part of this path to in 2007, I walked on to set. And I was always a funny makeup artist because I was allergic to makeup. Oh. And so I was like, yeah, I would walk on to set with a fishing tackle kit. Oh, wow.

Okay. And this was 2007. It was before any of these like kind of natural, cleanish brands came to be. And I would go on to set with a fishing tackle kit. that was basically just filled with inks pigments and oils and butter and I would finger paint the models. Wow. And so I gained a reputation for one being a little cookie. Yeah. Unforgetable. That's good. Unforgetable. That's good. But also for making women feel really comfortable in their bodies and in their skin. And I was using ingredients that were actually skin beneficial. And so instead of the models coming onto a job and then having their skin just get destroyed

by all of the makeup throughout the day, they would leave set looking even healthier than they arrived at set. And so I got hired for this one job. The description was really simple. Five models, three days, no clothes. Okay. And so my job was to make every one of those women just feel incredibly beautiful and sensual and safe in their body and safe with each other. And I had to look great on set. It had to like reflect light beautifully and not get on all the set. And so I had showed up that day with my fishing tackle kit in one hand and a quart mason jar of the good stuff in another. And the good stuff is this like gold shimmery body oil that smells like chocolate and flowers and sex. It's like So good.

It's what I want to smell like all the time. And after three days of that job where the models were not just comfortable but feeling beautiful, but they were just peacocking around pretty much every person on set by the end of that three days had sat me down and said, May, what you're doing with makeup? Real cute, real fun. Glad you're here. But could you please go bottle that?

Because I wanted. Wow. And so I, in 2009, I placed an ad on Craigslist because I, that's what you do in 2009, looking for our designer who's now been with me more than 16 years. That's amazing. And yeah, we sat down in pixel by pixel designed the dandelion logo that embosses every bottle in box. And it's so luxurious, I have to say. From start to finish, and that's so important, I think when it comes to skincare, because so much of it is about the experience.

I feel like skin care, body care products, like it's very different from makeup. where makeup you have instant gratification and a lot of traditional skincare products today, especially you don't. I feel like with your products. You should be able to though. I know. Well, your products are completely different. But also from the second you hold it in your hand. It's magical. It truly is. It's the weight of it. It's the design of it. It's the embossing. Like everything that you just said and then the product itself. So I'm curious. Are there things about, we'll just say traditional skincare? formulating or ingredients that most consumers are not privy to. I mean, all of it.

I love things. You're looking at me like, yeah. I mean, I always think, I always think that everyone will know everything. Yeah. And then it turns out people don't really know anything. And so a lot of the things that I talk about feel really basic, like prepping your skin with water until it gets soft and squishy before bringing in moisture. I think that that is basic. But every time I say that, it's groundbreaking. It's like it blows people's minds. Like,

what do you mean I don't towel? Yeah. What do you mean? I just put the oil right into the water. Yeah. And so every time I think that I'm talking about the most foundational, like, dirt, simple thing brand new. And I think because I had to really learn to care for my organ with no product, no product. I had to learn how to just use water, to just use my own fingertips, to just use massage, to get my blood circulation moving, to get my lymph flowing, to get my skin cells to turn over without breaking open my skin. Yeah. And so because for so long I didn't have the ability to reach for product at all, I'm pretty wary of product. Yeah, we should be because most of it is just really pretty incompatible with the actual organ itself.

So you can get something that will give you a temporary glow. You can get something that will give you a shame, no problem. You know, that's what silicones are. There's so many ingredients that will give you a temporary lift and boost and glow. But I'm still thinking about this as an organ that I want to hold us well for a lifetime. And when we feed this organ well in a way that will hold us for a lifetime, you can't help but glow. Yeah. Because then you're healthy.

Yeah. And you're lit up and your tissues work and functional tissues are beautiful tissues. Yeah. Are there ingredients that are common in most skincare products that are actually working against us? I think the actual challenge is not even active. There's real benefit to retinol. There's a real benefit to vitamin C. There's real benefit to X, Y, Z.

The challenge for me is that's one ingredient. And a formula is dozens of ingredients, typically. And so you might have a skin that loves retinol, but probably that retinol is in a lotion or cream base that's full of preservatives and fillers and things that will keep it stable on a shelf for multiple years as required. by all the big beauty retailers.

You might think that you're sensitive to the retinal. You could just be sensitive to the preservative number four in the retinal. And so I don't even know if I'm compatible with retinal because there's not a retinal formula that I'll put on myself because you're not just giving me the retinal, you're giving me everything that goes with it. And so it's all the extras. Our skin generally is just so overwhelmed

by having the whole kitchen cupboard thrown at it that we can't tell when there's a, inactive that's actually beneficial because there's so many inactive fillers. And so even something as simple as a basic facial mist, for example, is mostly just water. Yeah. And then because it's sometimes alcohol. Mostly just water or a little alcohol to keep things from growing in that water and a bunch of other preservatives to keep things from growing in that water. And so you might start with the most beautiful floral water there is. But by the time you've added the preservatives and the stabilizers to make it sellable and last on a shelf, you've lost the benefit. And I'd rather you

just splash at your sink until you're squishy. So it's the overwhelm, I think, is the challenge. And because we're looking for answers outside of ourselves all the time, it's the overflowing drawers, the overflowing pantry. It's trying 10 different things and layering them all at once. when really you could probably just super simplify your ritual. All you need is something to clear out and something to feed in. And then pick an active, pick a lane and really commit to it. What I find mostly is we're so busy reaching for alternative options to every other alternative option, alternative option that we've tried,

that we actually don't just commit. And consistency is the whole thing. If you commit to really beautiful good moisture twice a day every day and you skip everything else, but you just feed in the blue cocoon or the youth do. You do that twice a day every day like eating vegetables and you don't make it a spa day, a Sunday, a birthday, some out there day, but Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, you know, all of the days, you will see such an astronomical difference just by that consistency. Like say you can't eat broccoli once a month.

then call that good, right? You can't do deep moisture or one treatment mask once a month and call that skin care. It's not. You might as well just throw out the bowl of broccoli. Like, eat it over and over every day. So the consistency is more of a challenge, I think, than actually finding the right product. Just commit. Yeah. And I think there's a tendency to, kind of to your point, keep adding more things. Like, okay, you start one product and then it's like whackamol, you know? And then maybe that product is making you reds. you add something in for redness. And then you add something in and it's just like...

And then you're trying three different concealers and a foundation because that didn't work for the redness. And now you've got makeup that's adding to the redness, the inflammation. But now we're going to have that. And you can just keep going and going and going at infinite. And that's how we get into this position. Strip it all back naked to the tissue.

I have a question. I'm not a chemist. How do you go about stability testing if you're not using preservatives and alcohols and things like that? I don't put water in the bottle. You what? I don't put water in the bottle. Oh.

Okay. Chemistry 101. Let's go. As soon as you add, okay, so the blue cocoon, for example, and the youth do, they are pure plant oils. So there's nothing else in there. There's no water in there. And so just bottled on their own, their anhydrous formulas. And then I pack them in dark glass.

And that combination of not having water and not letting in light doesn't grow stuff. And I'm not just like wishing on the dandelion here that that's true. We've been selling globally since 2011. And so we adhere to all the European regulations. US is Wild West. If we just sold in the US, no one's checking nothing. It's bananas. But from day one, we've been a global brand.

And so we do all of the challenge testing, all of the preservatives testing, all of the stability testing to the most rigorous degree. And so it's not a wish and a hope. We source the absolute freshest ingredients on the planet, not just what's organic, not just what's wild harvest it, but we're looking for this. this year's harvest. We're dialing in every year with every batch closer and closer to the source, getting better and better quality all the time. I don't make new products. We really are just committed to. Can we just make them better every time? And then we blend and fill in small batches.

Every bottle gets a birthday because we celebrate that, the freshness. And then it does go through all of that rigorous testing. Our products are labeled for use within one year of opening. Technically, they could sit on your shelf for 10 years before that opening. The opening is really a about contamination once you start using it. And I want you to put this in your shower. Yeah. I want you to use this in the shower. I want you to use it every day. And so you're putting the face products too. Yep. Everything. I put everything in there because then you don't forget. By the time you get out of the shower and you're toweled off, you're running. Yeah. You've got 53 things on your list and you're not one of them. And so I need you in that shower because even if you're only going to

get that like three minutes. I want to be the most beautiful, impactful three minutes of your day. I know you're like music on. Yes. Right. Like have a playlist at the ready that has like, you know, half a dozen songs on it that make you feel like you that you either like, yeah, we'll get you grooving or let you exhale or make you sing like a nine year old or a 16 year old in the car. But get your playlist, tap play, you know. Have a ball of grapes in there. I have a juicy orange in there. This is. It's the only place to eat a mango. Yeah.

I love it. I love how you like infuse enjoyment back into these rituals that have completely lost their enjoyment, in my opinion. We have to make it to become very clinical. You know, it's sterile almost. Well, you said, you know, makeup, you get that instant payoff. And you can get that with skincare too. A hundred percent. Our treatments, one use, your entire skin texture changes.

Yeah. The moisture, one use, you go from like, no glow to glow in a 30 second moment. But if you can actually give yourself two or three minutes, if you can actually give yourself a proper massage, and if you can do that while like singing along to something that makes you feel the most you, and if you have like some ridiculous fruit in there at the same time, like you'll laugh.

I know. And what is more beautiful than a full woman laughing? Yeah, I love it. If you follow me on Instagram or TikTok, I probably don't have to tell you that I, I've become completely obsessed with serracreel beauty. Every single product feels so intentional from the packaging to the formulas to the way everything performs on the skin.

It's one of those brands where every time I use it, I think this is so good. So I think a lot of us hit our 40s and realize that the makeup we've been using forever just doesn't hit the same anymore. Products start settling into fine lines, concealer creases, bronzer can look muddy, and suddenly your makeup is working against you instead of for you. I think that this is why a lot of people perpetuate the myth that makeup can make you look older. It's just the wrong makeup, I think, can make you look older. So Sarah Creel created this line specifically for women over 40 and you can absolutely tell.

I would probably have to say the complexion enhancer is my number one. I use it all the time because it gives my skin this beautiful, healthy, lit from within glow without looking heavy. and the concealer is so incredible. It somehow brightens without settling or looking dry. The whole line just makes my skin look fresh or healthier and more radiant while still looking like my skin. It's one of those brands that I reach for constantly. So exclusively for my listeners,

Sarah Creel Beauty is offering 15% off your first order of luxurious high-performance beauty that actually makes your routine simpler and works better for you now. Visit sarahreelbeautom slash well. For more information, that's S-A-R-A-H-R-E-A-L-B-E-A-U-T-Y dot com slash W-E-L. At 40 years old, almost 41, collagen has become a non-negotiable in my routine. And there are so many collagen powders out there, but I really appreciate that needed keeps it incredibly simple. It contains 100% pure hydrolyzed collagen with no fillers, no additives, and nothing extra.

What I really love about it is that it mixes into basically anything without changing the taste. Most mornings I stir it into either my matcha or my yogurt bowl or my oats and it's just an easy habit that doesn't require any extra thought. And one thing that I also appreciate about needed as a brand is that they formulate specifically for women. Their products are backed by practitioners. They use clinically relevant dosages and they really focus on optimal nutrition. Instead of just meeting the bare minimum, it's a much more thought. thoughtful approach than a lot of supplements on the market. Their collagen supports so much more than just skin as well. It also supports joints, bones, gut health, and hair, making it a really easy addition

to an overall wellness routine. And it is something that I absolutely notice a difference with. Also, my nail tech notice is a difference. My hair people notice a difference. I notice a difference. So right now you can head over to this is needed.com and use the code well for 20% off your first order. That's t-h-I-S-N-E-D-D dot com. And the code is well for 20% off your first order. I wear so much Viori I have for a long time. And what I've really been living in lately is there are all the feels collection. It is one of those rare lines that manages to be incredibly comfortable while still looking really polished, which is exactly what I want, especially if I'm traveling or going somewhere after I work out. I love that pieces can

pull double duty and that's what makes this collection so good. I will wear it to Pilates or sometimes even strength training, then throw on a sweater or jacket and head straight to lunch, errands or work without feeling like I'm wearing gym clothes. It is chic, flattering, and just so easy to style. And the fabric is honestly what sold me. It's incredibly soft, lightweight, and stretchy, so it moves with you, whether you are working out or spending an entire travel day on a plane. I find myself reaching for it over and over because it feels as good at hour 10 as it did when I first put it on. And that is what I love about Viori in general. It's not your average active wear.

It's performance clothing that's actually designed to fit into real life beyond the gym. So right now you can go to Viori.com slash well and discover the versatility of Viori clothing. Not only will you receive 20% off your first purchase, but you'll also enjoy free shipping on U.S. orders over $75 and. free returns. Again, that's vore.com slash well and receive 20% off your first purchase and free shipping on U.S. orders over $75 and free returns. I have been talking about this on my podcast a lot, but one thing that has made such a difference for me this year has been following an actual strength plan instead of piecing together random workouts. And this is the main reason why I love ladder so much. So when you sign up for ladder. You answer questions about your goals and the way that you actually like to

train. I told them that I liked a mix of weight training and Pilates inspired movement and they matched me with a coach whose programming is honestly perfect for me. I love that every workout is already planned out. It progresses week after week and it feels like I have a trainer right there in my headphones. It tells me exactly what to do, how much to lift and keeps track of everything. So I never have to think about it. And it's also been so amazing for travel. Whether I'm at home or in a hotel gym somewhere, I can just open the app and know exactly what I'm doing that day. It takes all the guesswork out of working out and I end up being so much more consistent because of it. And it makes me really look forward to my workouts as well because I don't feel like I'm just going in there aimless and having to patch something together myself. So remove the guesswork with ladder and get a real coach in your ear telling you, exactly what to do for every workout. No thinking, everything planned for you. If you have an iPhone, head to ladder.fit slash well and take a quick quiz to find your perfect ladder plan. Use my link to get a free seven-day trial with no credit card plus $10 off your first month if you

join. I have to say, yeah, the blue cocoon, that's my travel hack too. I see everyone doing, pressing the bacteria into their skin with the sheet masks on long flights. And I'm like, you're just trapping it and that's not even doing anything. That for me is like, I cannot travel without it. 100%. And that's instant gratification. It really is. I mean, all of the products of yours that I've used and I haven't used all of them, but very instant gratification. They're very addictive. I went back in our message history on Instagram and you had posted exactly that, the blue cocoon. You were flying with the blue cocoon and talking about the blue cocoon. And what I wrote you is my favorite flight tip, which is, yes, the blue cocoon, like so much before you get on.

But right before you bored, go wash your hands really well and put the blue cocoon actually just inside your nostrils. I remember that. Oh, my gosh. I remember that you said that and then I forgot to do it. Okay, but next time, because it's anti-microbial. It's so dry. And so it protects those tissues.

It keeps you from getting sick because that's not cracking open. You're not more vulnerable. And then you're smelling. It's comforting. It smells nice. It has the aromatherap therapy factor. In aromatherapy, Blutanzi is used for stress, anxiety, sleep disorders, anger, feeling out of control, addiction, all of these things. Amazing. So you're going to get on a flight. It's like pushing every one of those buttons. And so give yourself good moisture. Take it from forehead to chest. But a little bit inside your nostrils, a little extra around your eye area and lips. You can get off that flight feeling softer

and better than when you get on. Yeah, he'll be the most hydrated person getting off the plate. Guaranteed. Do you have any other hacks like that that you like, whether it comes to just overall health and wellness or skin? Just putting everything everywhere. Really thinking of our full body, a lot of times, you know, we're vain. We're humans.

We can't help it. There's a lot of reward for being sparkly. But we think about our neck up. And it's like get a killer body oil. Like you need the good stuff in your shower. and you need it every day. Because like that, A, I think about how skin deteriorates over time. And I'm in my mid-40s, when I'm in my 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s.

Women and my family live into their 100. And so when I think about that and when I think about like the genetics that I have in terms of skin, I want my skin at 90 to still be holding me healthily. If I am so lucky to live into my hundreds, I'm like, is that lucky? I'm not sure. That's a long time from now. My grandmother just turned 99. I was at her birthday party last week. And yeah, I think it is. I mean, it depends on how you live, right? Yeah. She's like still social, active, like has not slowed down at all. So for her, it's like just a number, you know? I mean, my skin in my 20s, I looked like a man in his 70s. Wow. And so when I think about what it'll act. be like for me to be in my 70s, I hope that this organ just continues to stay healthy and

stay supple and stay strong. And I think that body oil is like the most underrated, most valuable thing we can give ourselves. And so having a body oil that you love in the shower that's good quality, organic, beautiful, replenishing oils. You turn off your water, soaking wet body, no towel, full handful of oils, start at your toes all the way to your neck. You do that every single time that you shower. That's number one rule. And even the National Exema Society on their website will say within three minutes of getting your skin wet to apply an oil of some kind. I think three minutes is way too long. Three minutes is long enough for you've gotten out of the shower and you get back to that like protective outside skin. It's turn off the

water and instant oil into body. And that's head to toe. It's not. It's not. You're not. You're just the face. Yeah. Put it everywhere. Yeah. I have an Instagram carousel today that I'm, I have not posted, but I am. And it's like niche things to stay hot at 40, right? Yeah. And one of my things is your body oil on wet skin in the shower. Everywhere. It's such a game changer. I think people don't realize. And I think most people use body oils after they get out, they towel off. And then they don't like it. They don't do it again because they get so greasy. It sits on top of their skin and they don't like the feeling of it. And so then it just sits there. You got to be soaking wet. Yeah. And like just literally soaking wet. Yeah. I mean, look at your skin. I'm curious. How do you

approach the sun? Because you look like you have not seen a day of sun. Like just as far as pigment goes and everything. So how do you approach that? Sun and I get along. Yeah. I mean, you do have a golden, a little golden that way. Right. It's this also. My color is genetic. And so I have like the tricky part of my genetic where I'm just like bound to like break out in blisters and rashes and flakes if I don't take care of myself. But when I do, I have skin that regenerates very quickly, which leads to some of the irritation and chances of inflammation. But it also keeps me looking healthy when I'm at its best. When my skin was at its worst, doctors would actually tell me to go in tanning beds. In some cases, there are some benefits to it.

I'm not going to go hang out in a tanning bed because, you know, research. I had to do that a couple years ago. I had pitiaryosis, rosy, you know what that is. It's like, it's on your trunk, essentially, neck to waist. Nothing, nothing got rid of it. And it was so itchy and uncomfortable. Stabilitating. Dabilitating.

Somewhere I came across something, tanning buds. I was a tanning betaholic in my teens growing up on the East Coast, you know, early aughts when tan was cool. I mean, that was time. TAN as humanly possible and there was no spray tan or anything. and we were in that thing every single day. I couldn't even believe that they still exist, but I would go in fully covered except for this for like two minutes,

and it did get rid of it. And then my dorm was like, well, you know that we have UV boxes that don't, you know, you can go. I was like, oh, there are solutions to these things. Yeah, but the sun does help. Morning sun, morning sun, not direct sun. Yeah. You know, be smart about it.

Like the sun is very real. It's very powerful. Yeah. But a little morning sun every day on naked body. is a great idea. So I have a little balcony off of my bedroom and my entire movement and mood moment is right there. It's like five to ten minutes of me just like rolling around on a yoga mat. I would not say I'm doing yoga. I would say that I'm rolling around on a yoga mat. Covered in oils fresh from the shower. Just giving myself some minutes to just be in the body

with the playlist with my breath, just being ridiculous and in myself for a few minutes, makes a huge difference. Also, so many of these conditions like mine, they are related to the nervous system. It's directly tied to stress. And when your skin is inflamed like that,

the inflammation literally hits your nervous system, which runs directly under the skin. And so the more anxious you are, the more anxious you are. Yeah. is how that goes. And so I'm always just trying to do everything that I can to stay here in this body on this planet, feeling good in here.

You seem very embodied and very joyful. So whatever you're doing, it's working. And so I'm probably tomorrow going to go out onto my outdoor area, fully oiled with a yoga mat, and put on my playlist and roll around and just let it out. There you go. Make sure you have a mango in that shower first. I will. I absolutely will. Whatever you're doing, I'm adopting. I want to go back to some of the prescriptive things. What do you recommend for texture? Clean dirt. The clean dirt? Yeah.

Very specifically, it's really wonderful for lifting that dead skin. It's a cool treatment. It smells like Christmas ginger cookie. And it's, it's, again, it starts as a powder and then you blend it with water and it bubbles and fizzes. It sounds like rice crispies. So it has this really fun. and sorrel experience, but it blends in 15 seconds. It takes no time. So you've got no excuse. But I use that while in the shower. So you want your skin soft and receptive. You want the heat and the steam of the shower to start this treatment for you. Pretend that you're at the spa. That's all that they're doing with the steamer and the hot towel. So you got to do that for yourself too. So you get your skin real soft. And then you apply this tingly, fizzy moose over your face and neck and chest. It's also

wonderful for the armpits for the backs of the arms where people get all the little bumps and things also feels really wonderful massaged into breasts into belly bikini area feet everywhere but so good for texture so good for sun damage for hyperpigmentation discoloration yeah but anything that you can feel like when you close your eyes and you're massaging your skin and it's like oh there's just like a little stuckness or bumps or where your makeup clings and doesn't quite sit right The clean dirt's ridiculous. I mean, one use, it's a completely different surface situation. And then what happens over time is that compounds is pretty phenomenal.

Okay, amazing. I love that it's for sun damage too. Yeah. That's my thing. Very brightening. That's my thing. At 40, I was like, oh, you can start to see. Well, you can see here, I got laser, actually.

That's going to feel so good, though. You got to just sit your butt down in the shower and just put it everywhere. Like, mix a big bowl of it and be. extra. Yeah. Also, these are giant bottles because I made them huge because I really want you to use them. Yeah. And I find it so annoying if you order a mask or something and there's like three uses.

And then you really do say for your birthday, your anniversary that, you know, your friend's wedding six months from now. Yeah. And this is like every two or three days I've got a treatment on. Okay. Because there's really something to having there be a powerful treatment followed by rest. Power, rest. Yeah.

What do you recommend for skin? that has suddenly changed going from 30s to 40s. Be nice. Yeah. Really, most, I think we do the most damage when we're just like shit talking ourselves about it. I watch women at the mirror. And that's what happens is we go to the mirror and we lean in and we're just like

picking at all the different parts on of ourselves and trying to fix something, trying to highlight the problem and then fix it. And I really spend a lot of time planting other words. When I'm doing my body oil and I'm doing like the 30 seconds to just cover my whole body everywhere, I start at my toes and I will literally just say thank you, thank you, thank you, as I move up my ankle, my leg, my thigh, my butt, my boobs, thank you all the way up. And I do that when I don't have the song on. Sometimes the song is what helps me because when I'm singing along to that song,

you know, that makes me wiggle or makes me feel like my nine-year-old self, my 16-year-old self, the shit talker turns off, the timekeeper turns off, and for those two or three minutes, I'm having a good time. What's your go-to song? Ooh. Hmm. It depends on the mood. There's one called actually Take It Slow.

That's really nice. If I am literally just counting the time, it's a nice, soft slowdown. But it could also be like dancing with my set. And so it's like pick the vibe. Sometimes it's like me at a hippie gathering with like 20 women in my mind having, you know, a full moon ritual. And other times it's like the stripper karaoke song. It's pour some sugar on me. Yeah.

What's going to make me feel? So it's whatever your mood is. Yeah. And what am I stepping into? Yeah. You know, am I stepping into a team meeting where I want everybody like lit up and excited and inspired? Am I stepping into a podcast recording? Am I about to send an email that I'm like dreading, pushing send on? Am I like, what am I actually about to do? Am I dropping my kids off at school?

Am I, you know, you know, do a solid workday in my pajamas where I don't look up once? So I try and think about what I'm stepping into and also what I've stepped out of. I don't have the best sleep. I have nightmares. And so my mornings can be precarious. And the mood that I set for myself is really important to how the whole day feels. I'm just thinking about an interview that I just did with Aaron Walsh. I don't know if you know who she is. She's a stylist. Anne Hathaway's stylist. She did like the whole devil wears Prada press tour, Selena Gomez. I mean, so many people. But she just came out with a book called The Art of Intentional Dressing. And she's is very spiritual and very like intuitive and gentle and soft and kind. She was amazing. But she talks

about getting dressed in the morning. Similar to how you talk about getting ready for the day with the music. And you know, she she says choose three words. Who do you want to be? Yeah. Who am I? You know, people think, oh, style is frivolous. Skin care frivolous. You know, it's vanity, whatever. And she's like, no, you do it every single day too. And like, you can completely. change your inner state and what you present to the world. And, you know, different days require different things. And I loved that philosophy of hers. And so I'm like, okay, I'm going to marry the two. It's very real. Yeah. It's very real. And, you know, we get choice in this. We're going to have the meeting either way. You're going to send the email either way. You've got to pack the kids lunch either way.

You've got, you know, you've got stuff to do. But how we get to feel while it's happening, the playlist that's happening in the background makes a big difference. The inner words that you are using make a big difference. Am I being kind for myself when I'm running behind or am I reprimanding myself? Am I cheering myself on as I'm a little late getting out the door? You can do it. Or am I just like, damn it again? You know, like how am I speaking to myself changes then how I touch myself? and something as simple as like I don't lean into the mirror and pick up myself anymore. I close my eyes and I find what feels good. I love that.

The directionality is so different. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Well, I could keep talking to you. But tell everybody where they can find you and find your product and all of that. You can find us at maylendstrom.com. That's our primary home.

That's where everything ships fresh from our kitchen lab here in Los Angeles, where everything is made in small batches. It's also where you can find great information about our world ingredients for every one of our fresh formulas. You can click into every product page and go down to the how to use tab and there's a video of me in the shower demonstrating exactly how to use everything

to make the very most of your experience, your results, your pleasure, which is a big deal because that's where we really do the care. And yeah, that's the best place. Our care team is available there too. There's a chat open all the time. You can email us novels about your skin and we will write to you every day for the rest of your life. You have new friends. We're here for your recommendations. Also on social at Maylenstrom's skin. I can be a little delinquent there, but I often try and hop in and be a real human with everyone. It's, you know, that's our gathering place. We used to have villages and now we've got Instagram. Yeah, for better or worse, right? better or worse, but so much good there. Really, it's where a lot of our community gathers. And I really like being connected to everybody in this way.

You have a great community. I can tell. Yeah, when I go on your page and I read the feedback and you guys post messages that you get and everything. And it's like, I mean, everybody, I think when they're drawn to you and drawn to your products, it's kind of like a like-minded person or people who are trying to live in a certain way. I think we have like the softest, coziest, most pleasurable little corner of the internet. Yeah, I know. I'm like, this is so positive. I'm like, oh my God, mine is like a hellscape. You get to decide. Change the channel. You know? Yeah. I just block, block. Delete and block. But,

all right. Well, thank you so much. This was so fun. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah. I hope you enjoyed that episode. If you liked the episode and if you like the show in general, please take a second to rate. review and subscribe. It goes such a long way in supporting the show. Follow the show over on Instagram at well.pod. You can also follow my personal Instagram at Ariel Laurie. I'm always sharing great clips from the episodes. And we also have full episodes on YouTube as well if you want to watch in entirety. Thanks for listening. We are Aaron and Sarah Foster. We have a podcast. We're here to basically ask you to listen to it. We're just trying to help you guys not make the same mistakes that we've made in Because we made a lot.

Especially me. I really went down some dark roads. Trying to save you guys from that. Our podcast is called The World's First Podcast. We are technically

the sisters behind the nobody wants this podcast. It's inspired by us. Because you wrote it. Yeah, that's true. But when I write, I am inspired by myself all the time. Right.

That would make sense. You inspire you. We're going to wrap this up. Okay. Guys, go check it out. World's First Podcast. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements

and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.