Well with Arielle Lorre - 469: The Truth About Building Glutes, Getting Lean & Why you Feel Puffy from Workouts

Episode Date: July 15, 2026

Dr. Jenna Lagana is a doctor of physical therapy and performance coach who specializes in helping women build strength, improve body composition, and train in a way that’s sustainable for long-term health. She combines evidence-based exercise science with a realistic understanding of the aesthetic goals many women have—but rarely feel comfortable talking about openly.In this episode, we have the honest fitness conversation women are actually having behind closed doors. We discuss:Why you might feel puffy when you start strength trainingHow to know if you’re overtrainingWhy eating less can stall your progressFinding the right balance between aesthetic and health goalsBuilding glutes without overdeveloping your legsWhat actually causes the “bulky” lookPCOS, inflammation, and body compositionPilates vs. weight trainingProtein, macros, and whether you really need to track themHow long it actually takes to see resultsThe biggest mistakes women make when trying to get leanWhat an ideal day of eating looks like for someone strength trainingWhether your goal is to build muscle, lose body fat, improve your relationship with exercise, or simply stop wasting time doing workouts that don’t move the needle, this episode is full of practical advice you’ll actually use.You can find Jenna at @dr.jennalagana on Instagram, and don’t forget to download her Space 314 app.This episode is brought to you by:Visit hungryroot.com/blonde to get 40% off your first box and a free item of your choice.Get 15% off at BON CHARGE by using code BLONDE at www.boncharge.com.Visit ProlonLife.com/BLONDE to get 15% sitewide.Head to Nutrafol.com and use code BLONDE for $10 off your first subscription and free shipping.Visit quo.com/blonde for 20% off 6 months.Go to ladder.fit/WELL for a 7-day free trial and $10 off your first month.Use code WELL at puori.com/WELL to get 32% off your first Puori Grass-fed Whey Protein order when you start a subscription.Visit DrinkNello.com and use code WELL at checkout for 20% off your first order.This episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct, or indirect financial interest in products, or services referred to in this episode.Produced by Dear Media See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a dear media production. This is Well, a podcast about wellness in all its forms. I'm Ariel Laurie, and each week I'm sharing unfiltered conversations with people shaping how we feel, live, and look. Come for the substance, stay for the honesty, and leave with the tools to be well, inside and out. Today's guest is somebody that you probably know if you follow me on Instagram. You guys have probably seen many a gym selfie with her in the background.

but you have not had the joy of getting to know her personality and her expertise. So I was so excited to have her on my podcast. And I am talking about my trainer, Dr. Jenna Lagana. Jenna is a doctor of physical therapy. She is a strength coach and movement specialist who combines the science of biomechanics with practical aesthetic focused training in a way that is incredibly refreshing. And in this episode, we are having the kind of conversation that women usually only have privately with their trainer or their closest friends.

We are talking very candidly about body composition, building glutes without feeling like your legs are getting bigger than you want, getting lean, eating to support your goals, and why so many women feel like they are doing everything right, but still aren't seeing the results that we want. And yes, we talk about the dreaded puffiness that so many trainers deny, but Jenna knows well. And something that she said was that she has never had a male come to her and say that he feels puppy. So I think that this is something that is unique to the female experience. Jenna brings the technical expertise to this episode to explain what's actually happening in the body,

while we also get candid about the questions that so many women are thinking, but don't always feel comfortable asking out loud. We get into protein maxing, whether you are really eating enough to build muscle, common fitness myths that refuse to die, what actually moves the needle when it comes to changing your physique and why more isn't always better. You might actually be shocked to hear how frequently or rather infrequently she is training. And whether you are just getting into strength training or you've been lifting for years, but you feel like you've hit a plateau, this episode is packed with practical takeaways that you can actually apply. I always learn so much from Jenna and I always laugh. We have a very silly, fun relationship that we tried to keep kind of rained in for this episode, but you

definitely get some of that fun and lightness while also getting her expertise. So please enjoy my conversation with Dr. Jenna Lagana. Welcome. Thank you. We're going to try to get through this podcast in a serious way. Right off the bat, we should say that we have a training relationship. we've been training for what a year and a half now. It's been a while. Yeah. And I really credit you just to give you some praise from the beginning with getting me back into working out consistently because when I came to you, I had not been able to work out

for like two years. I was a disaster. I was having tons of immune flares, exercise intolerance. And you understood that, I think, in a way that other trainers don't, where they just want a push, push, push, push. And I just can't do that. It's counterproductive to being able to build a consistent routine. Right. With you, though, was you wanted to be pushed also. And you were like, I can do it. And then remember I kept having to tell you, hey, this is really good. Let's pause. Yeah. And slow down. And that's something that I think good trainers understand is there are a

restraint component to it because I think a lot of people come into like training or just wanting to overhaul their lifestyle habits and go zero to 100. And then they inevitably are going to mess up at some point. And then they just get what I call the fuckets. And then that's it. And then pick back up three months later or something like that. Get me to my threshold and then stop. And we've had this conversation and we'll get into this in this episode. But, you know, I still deal with things that I know so many of my listeners deal with, like getting super puffy from working out. And feeling like, we're not getting the result that we want because of that puffiness and the reaction that

my body has. And whenever I talk about that, every single person, it feels like who listens, who follows me is like me too. And yet so many people deny it. So we're like trying to still find that sweet spot of how much is enough, what's too much. And I think that's something that women deal with a lot. A hundred percent. I've never had a male patient or client come to me and be like, hey, I'm really puffy when I work out. And I think that's the tide that's changing right now, where we do have so many more women in the profession who are experiencing these things themselves and then we're having to figure out how do we combat this. And not only for ourselves, when, you know, I can run a study on myself for 24 hours and understand, okay, if I eat like this,

if I sleep like this, if I train like this, this is how I feel. But then to say, okay, now I have a girl who's 16 and I have a woman who's perimenopausal and I have a woman who's 75 and we're all in such different stages of life. But there is a way to adapt training to a person in order to combat those things. But it is a very special dance and art and there's so much nuance to it as well. But I think having more women in the space and now having more women wanting to strength train, we're just going to see things like this more and more. And then it's important that the people who have figured out how to manage it get to speak up and help other people learn it. Yeah. And we'll get into all of that in today's episode. But first, I want to start with finish the sentence. Okay. Women think they need

to train harder, but really they need to train less than they think. Interesting. This is why I love you. Because we're doing two days a week right now. Yes. Yes. You had to pull you back. Yeah, and we'll get to that too. The biggest mistake I see women making is not giving strength training the time it needs to produce a result. What is that time in general? Three to six months, once you figure out the right balance and cadence of training. Okay. Bookmark that.

The exercise everyone loves that I almost never program is anything with a band. What? I love band. I ever put a band on you? No, but I just posted about them today, how they keep me hot at 40. Well, we'll have to come back to this one, too. Circle back to that one. Tessa, make a note, because I'm going to forget. Everything so far. If your goal is an athletic-looking body, you need to train like an athlete. Okay. What does that look like? Incorporating violent is such an aggressive word, but explosive movements. That's what produces a nice, whole, strong body power in the muscle.

Are we talking like sprinting? That's what I'm picturing when I'm saying this right now. If you picture our Olympic sprinters, they have great butt, they have great legs, and they're just like little powerhouses. Yeah. So yeah, something fast like sprinting. Okay. Why don't we do that? I said we're jumping and we just, this last time, we're having some feminine problems of cramps, so I didn't want to make you jump. Got it. Okay, thanks. If your goal is a feminine, lean-looking body you need.

You need to also train like an athlete, but then you need to have an appropriate cut. And you need to offset that to then reap the results of what you worked hard for. Yeah, and we're going to get into that piece as well because that's important. And I think that people don't necessarily include that in the conversation about like how to train. And in this conversation, we're going to be very honest about aesthetic goals. Yeah. It's important. Yeah. Okay. Most women don't actually want to. Do Pilates. No, I'm just kidding. Most women don't actually want to eat their body weight and protein. True. And I don't think we need to personally. What do you think? we need. I think we need to prioritize it on days that we strength train and do things that we're intentionally damaging our body. But on other days, let's eat more of the things we enjoy and the things that make us feel good. We don't need to be forcing ourselves to hit these standards that we're seeing all over Instagram. I think intuitive eating is really going to come back around and and lead the conversation once people figure out how to find balance for themselves.

Is this the big trend coming in 2027 instead of protein maxing? Oh my gosh. Yeah. That's crazy. Remember my turkey protein maxing? Yes. And I couldn't figure out why I was like feeling so puffy and large. And then I realized that I put turkey on top of my chicken thighs.

Yeah. I feel like that. But I was getting like 93% 7% fat turkey. which when you add it up to the amounts that I was eating a day was, you know, exceeding like what I should probably eat in fat a day. But anyway, I digress. Progressive overload is, do you want the definition? Progressive overload is necessary to achieve change in your muscle. However, I think it's important we're selecting particular lifts to progressively overload. So not everything needs to be session to session increasing in weight and intensity, but instead you're

picking certain lifts or movements that get more difficult. And then the other components of the workout are supporting that growth as well without taking away from the energy demands it will require to repair and recover from that session. Okay, three more. You do not have to. You don't have to do anything that you don't want to do. Okay. The body, everyone is chasing on Instagram is usually built by strength training. Terseptitide. I'm kidding. Small microdose of treseptitide.

And I think happiness. I think a happier, yeah, I think if you have a really positive relationship with food and movement and understanding any change you make in your body, whether it be a short term or a long term change, nothing's permanent. that can be undone or redone or whatever it may be. And so understanding that we're just constantly changing, it makes me feel better. Whereas I think someone else maybe it won't. But yeah, no, like there's no there. You don't get there and then stay there and then that's it forever. No. Yeah. We get there and then we get somewhere else and then we get back there. It's like

constantly evolving. Okay. Last one. Looking toned actually means having muscle and being strong. Okay. You're good at that. Thank you. Good job. Thanks. Okay. So obviously I mentioned that we've been working together for a while. And for whatever reason, like whenever I do a solo episode, people are very interested in what my training breakdown and routine is. So I thought we would talk about that first a little bit and then get into the technical stuff. Why do you think we work well together? It's such a good question. And I mean like what should people also be looking for when they're working with the trainer? Okay, that helps narrow down. I was going to say my sense of humor, I think really helps. Our playlist. Yeah.

The weekend. There's so many things. I think any good relationship with a trainer is just built around people getting along with people. And so you need to connect with your trainer in some way other than just respecting them as a professional, in my opinion. You want to want to spend time with them. Oftentimes, I mean, training is hard. right? And it's uncomfortable at moments. And, you know, when my only opening is 8 a.m. And then you have to show up at 8 a.m. We need to make sure there are other things that excites you about it other than training.

So I think being able to be with someone who can see you also. That makes sense. If you come in feeling low, I'm not just going to push you through the workout I had planned. We're going to switch up. We're going to talk. We're going to laugh. And then we'll put in moments of hard work. and then work that feels good. So I think just knowing even though it is a job, it's still a relationship between two people. So I think finding that person you're really comfortable with. I think that when I came to see you, I maybe had an idea of what I thought I needed. And you had a different prescription for what I actually needed. Can you talk about that a little bit, whether it's with me or just in general with clients that you work with? Yeah, I actually did review your initial chart note because it had been so long. I was like, I feel like this might come up, so I should probably refresh myself on where we started together. But it really is so different person to person if you're doing this job in a responsible way in that

every hour for me is extremely different client to client to client. And, you know, I've been in settings before where my treatment room was out of a private training gym. My walls were glass. And it was like, I could see out, no one could see in. And I would watch trainers for 12 hours, 12 clients, same exact program for every single person. And it was 12 very different people coming in, you know? So I think if someone is starting a training journey and they feel like it's not really feeling specific to them, it probably isn't, number one. Number two, still maintaining that trust. for the professional who is helping guide you. But, you know, we had a conversation the whole time about it, right? You wanted to start in one way. I wanted to start you differently. It was kind of silly where we started.

It was very, very low intensity. And I told you, hey, at some point, I'm likely going to flare you. And that's good. That's important information for me to then be able to course correct and understand where can I push you and where shouldn't I push you. I don't think we actually had to flare up, which was really cool. But I remember the first few sessions. It was what would be your warm up now, honestly. It was pretty chill. A lot of body weight, just a lot of form stuff. And text you a day or two after, hey, how are we feeling? How do we do? And you always did well. So it started really slow, but it was worth it because then we just kind of kept inching our way forward instead of having those big setbacks and having to be like, well, what part went wrong? Yeah. It was easier to dissect as you increase it slowly. And I came to you

with both consistency goals and aesthetic goals. Yes. We're very honest in our relationship about the aesthetic goal piece of it. And we'll get to that. But I'm curious when clients come to you, do they come to you? Because they're like, I want to get fit and be healthy long term. Or are they like, I want to grow my ass and get skinny arms? Both.

Like always both. Yeah. If training made you uglier. I don't know that I would train as much as I do. You know, like, we're rewarded positively for it for a reason, I think. But it's important to understand what is motivating you to train. And if for someone, it's aesthetics and for someone else it is, I saw my mom had a hip replacement when she was 60 and I'm 50 now and I'm scared that that's going to be me.

Like that, those are both great things that will keep you on track and focused. So I think the aesthetic, if someone doesn't have an aesthetical, They're lying. Yeah, it'll come up later. But I think the motivation changes. Sometimes I'm more motivated by feeling good, especially when I was building up consistency and getting to work out more without having flares and feeling. That feeling of getting stronger is actually kind of addictive.

So sometimes that is the motivation and just knowing that I'm going to feel better. And I think when I got into working out five, six days a week when I was super puff, feeling like the Michelin Man, even though I know I didn't look that way. Shoveling turkey, chicken thighs, hungry all the time. I was doing it because I felt so good energy-wise and mentally. And so it was really hard to be like, well, this is not aligning with the aesthetic goal piece of it. But I think that different goals and objectives motivate you at different times. So sometimes it is, oh, I want to go work out because I have this meeting this afternoon and I have to get in the right mindset. And then other times it's, oh, I have a

this trip coming up or whatever and like, I want to lift my butt. Yeah. I think it's always the balance of both. And that's why goals or time related benchmarks are important too because it's easy to skip a workout here and there, which is fine. But if you don't have something you're working towards, whether it be an internal or external motivator, you're not going to show up. You know, if you don't know what is the thing that's driving you.

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month subscription plus free shipping when you visit Nutrafol.com and enter the promo code blonde. That's neuterful.com spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L.com and the promo code is blonde. Again, Nutraful.com slash blonde. Okay, let's talk about how to actually build the body that women. are desiring. Yeah, huge thighs, right? Yeah, huge thighs. Big old claws. Big deltoids, although you know what I see on TikTok. Women are trying to get capped shoulders. Yeah, I know. I have said this to you. You're like, my shoulders. I'm like, let me put a sweater over them. It's because the contrast. Right. I mean, no, I like this. I like that definition. Totally. No, I've always

loved a rounded shoulder personally. I'm just kidding. And I'm glad that I think who helped with that? Jessica Beal in that show. Yeah. Oh, yeah. She was a rep. What was it? Tessa.

Was it a movie or a show? But yeah, what was that show when she was like really? I mean, she's always just been kind of ripped. Yeah, but at that time I had so many women come to me. Really? As that was their inspo pick was the Jessica Beal. Arms and shoulders? Yeah.

Interesting. Yeah. It was cool. I feel like I see a lot of women on socials who are like, I train nonstop and I just cannot get any arm definition. And I'm like, I'll trade you. Yeah, that's your response. But everybody is so different. I mean, it's interesting because I can put on and tone really easily my upper body. You can. No, it's remarkable. I've really. You were fun for me because I've never seen someone just hold like a side plank and then all of a sudden they had like a full pump. in their shoulders. I was like, what's that a vein?

Haven't I shown you like, I'll screenshot videos and be like, what the fuck? I have so much definition there. You know what, though? It's genetic. Yeah. It's genetic because my mom is very narrow. Like every woman in her family was like teeny, teeny teeny tiny petite. But my dad and my brother in that side, they all have more defined upper bodies.

They're just lean muscle. Yeah. And I see it. And I'm like, that's what I got. Yeah. It's great. It's family. People don't talk about genetics in this conversation. Not that much, no. Not online at least.

It's do my program and you'll have your thigh gap, you know, that's stupid stuff. That's very true. Yeah, no, genetics are a massive component for the sake of this conversation. I don't know how much your listeners are familiar with bodybuilding, but oftentimes men who want to go into bodybuilding, they start in the trunks because legs aren't getting scored. and when they try to move on in their career, that's when you get to do the Speedo shows, but that means legs are going to be judged. Your calf size is what determines if you're actually going to make it at that level of bodybuilding. And so some men put in all of the work and do all of the things, but their calves just can't

grow. And so they are not allowed to be the Speedo bodybuilder. So yeah, genetics. And that's someone whose full-time job is, I'm going to sculpt my body, and they can't even do it. that's not meant to deter anyone, you know what I mean, of thinking like, well, it's just my body. I can't do it because that's not true. That's really extreme. But certainly, training you is, I have to consider other things than someone else who has the same aesthetic goals because we can't do things that involve too much of your upper body because it's true. You do really grow quickly. You're really feeding my insecurity. No, I'm just kidding.

This is an honest conversation. I know. And I wanted to have an honest conversation because this is like what women talk about with their friends and like feel like they can't talk about it in other places. Like just saying the quiet part out loud. We hear you and we support you. Yeah, we hear you and we see you. So to that point, can you actually build glutes without growing your legs? Because that's another big thing.

Women want the shelf butt, but they don't want the quads. I think they can. It's just slower. which is okay. But no, certainly, especially all the new machines and things, I think it's definitely possible. And from a genetic side, some women's thighs will grow faster. And so then it's being really hyper aware of, okay, we can't do movements that incorporate too many quads because that's what's going to steal all your gains, not actually. But we want to be really mindful of those things. So it's building that understanding of your own body, though, and not to your point

earlier seeing someone selling a program and saying, okay, well, her legs look like that. So mine will then look like that as well. Because you may have some limitations that need to be worked around. So with nuance and specificity course. Is bulky even a thing or are we misunderstanding what's happening? Because you hear, especially around the strength training, weightlifting conversation, like we all know it's beneficial for our health, especially as women and like protecting our bone density and, you know, preventing like sarcopenia, which is important as we get older and we know all the things. Yeah. But there, I think, is some trepidation because women are like, well, I don't want to get bulky. Yes. Is that a training thing and eating thing both? Or are we just missing the plot?

I don't know who started that, but it really caught on. Someone in Pilates. Yeah, for real. Pilates is public relations. I use the word bulky. That'll get them. It's hard because, I've been strength training since I was 14. And at the age of 14, I didn't have concerns or fears about being bulky. So, you know, that was never really in my own personal mindset. So I can only speak to the stories of my patients and clients and understanding I've developed through them. It's extremely difficult to become bulky. And, you know, weight gainer powders exist for a reason, and because it is difficult to put on weight in excess when you're doing all of the things correctly.

And I think the problem really is women make that transition of Pilates and walking and gentle things, not gentle, but just not heavy things and then go into a strength training setting. Perhaps if they were doing Pilates three times a week and then they switched it to strength training three times a week, they start developing that puffiness

and that almost inflammatory response rather than it being like, what do we think? You lifted weights and you put on fat? Probably not in a short period of time especially. Unless I'll play devil's advocate here. If you're training more than you're used to, at least in my experience, my appetite increases and then I'm eating more, which could lend itself to gaining weight in addition to gaining muscle, which would make you look a little bit bigger.

You know, the only time I've actually seen that with, because I make pretty much everyone get a Dexascan that's working with me so that we can monitor the changes and be able to create positive reinforcement as well and saying, okay, the number on the seal didn't change, but look, you lost seven pounds of muscle and put on two pounds of fat. Mathematically, that doesn't make sense, but you get what I'm saying. There's only been one time where I had someone who, was losing fat and losing muscle at the same time. I was like, oh, I don't like this. And the problem was she wasn't eating enough after the workout. So she was losing fat because of the demand. But because she didn't consume enough calories, she wasn't able to have the muscle growth, which then is what helps continuing to burn more fat after the fact.

So metabolically speaking, it's quite challenging to do where you're putting on fat and putting on muscle. Like, you'd have to be eating a lot. So the balkiness could potentially just be that inflammatory response that women get from the stimulus of working out more. I would think, yeah, if they're doing it in excess. And there are so many other factors to consider in that too. And then we also just have to think, are you being more critical on your body because some things are changing and it feels different and you're hyper aware of, am I bulking right now? versus maybe when you were doing polities, you weren't looking at yourself in such a

self-conscious lens. You know what I mean? Because change makes someone apprehensive, especially, I think, okay, this is a weird comparison, but people in supplements, people who are taking supplements for whatever problem, but the problem still exists, when you ask, I'm like, okay, well, why don't you stop taking the supplement if the problem didn't change or get better? Well, I'm afraid it's going to get worse. And so that's almost the same mindset I think people have around training and switching training as they're like, okay, well, I know I'm not getting better or worse with maintaining the routine I have. But then all of a sudden we change something and they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, I might be getting worse actually. So I don't know.

I think it's just critical self-thought. But scientifically speaking, I don't think so. What is that puffiness though? I mean, does it, because you mentioned that you've never had a guy, I'd be like, oh, I feel so puffy when I work out. Yes. Totally. And they're so annoying. They can do anything. And all of a sudden they get better.

I know. Yeah. And like they stop eating bread for a week and lose 20 pounds and put on muscle. Totally. Totally. Like my boyfriend. I'm like, what? Yeah.

I'll have a guy who I haven't seen a little bit. He comes back in. I'm like, oh, what did you do difference? Oh, I just didn't have a drink for a month. Oh my God. Okay. Look like 10 times better. I mean, we obviously have so much more going on with our hormones.

and things like that. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that is, of course, the main contributor to the puffiness and the little layer of inflammation that we see, particularly women with the PCOS and or PMOS. Sorry for the rebrand. I know. I met with my doctor last week.

He was like, rebrand. PMSS and endo, women with those conditions are going to be more susceptible anyways to developing that puffiness and that inflammation. That's me. Yeah. So then, and that's two for two. A lot, a lot, a lot of women. Yeah.

I would say almost anyone I see in reproductive age fit into one of those categories. And I can admit there's some bias because people coming to me are looking for a more specialized approach because they struggle with other things medically compared to your right, like a normal trainer. But it's so prevalent. And even without the diagnosis, you can see women have these shared symptoms and things. where you're like, okay, in the back of my mind, it's probably what's happening. We don't need the diagnosis because it's not really going to change unless you want to go

get the surgery or whatever it may be. It's just so common. And so I think women dealing with that on top of it, it's just makes strength training another stressor that we need to consider in our lives. So, you know, understanding certain times of your cycle, you will naturally be more inflamed. That's not to say, okay. we shouldn't train in that period. It's more so just being self-aware and knowing I don't look my best, but I know that in the next couple of days this is going to pass and that's okay.

Yeah, I feel like a lot of trainers say if you're feeling puffy, like you just push through and it will stop after a few months and your body will adjust. Is that your experience or not? You're shaking your head now. I think so. Yeah. And I feel like every woman too, like we all hear the same thing. I feel like we're kind of not to throw this word around, but like gaslit. And to being like, no, it's not a real thing. No, it's just like your muscles are like pulling more water and like your body is just adjusting and then it will go away. And for me, it takes me like two weeks for the puffiness to go down. Yeah. And this is something that we talked about, especially after my last vacation. Because I was working out so much before. I was so puffy for me. People are going to be like, if I drank every time you guys say puffy, like I'll be wasted. But and then I got on vacation. remember? And I was like, I have nobody to share this with. Right. Because the puffiness went away. And I was like, holy shit. I had so much muscle, especially in my glutes. Yeah. But you were like, okay. So like you have this deloading phase, right? Is that what you called it? Yeah. See, I listen. That's good. Yeah. I'm proud of you.

Yeah. Delode, which is honestly how training programming should be done where you have different cycles. So again, let's say you have a trip in a couple months. maybe we do a four to six week cycle where things are a little heavier, a little bit more intense, and you're allowing yourself to develop that puffiness. And then you transition it into more of a delode phase where you're maintaining similar movement patterns. But instead, we're just cutting that weight down in terms of the weight that you're lifting, not like going to sauna with that trash bag on. Yeah. That'll do it. Yeah. Stop drinking water. Yeah. Dehydrate yourself. So you train in a way where you're inviting the positive changes to be more present and more visible, knowing that when you come back, okay, we're going to, you know, maybe you have another trip like you always do. A couple weeks later, we keep things light then.

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That's a good question. This is where it's really annoying because it's so nuanced. But for me, personally, I can only squat once a month or my pants won't fit. My butt grows so rapidly if I'm squatting. Now you're bragging. You drag about your shoulders? I'll brag about my butt. So I'm at a place where I literally just squat.

once a month just because I like doing it. But you're also squatting. Did you ever reach your goal? Okay. My goal was a 200 pound deadlift. Oh yeah. And not yet, but this weekend I intend on. No, I'm not even squatting that heavy. Maybe 125. Maybe. In my mind, right, if I only had experiences with myself, it would be like, oh, squats are great, growing your glutes. But for other people, that's not quite right. And so much of that comes down to your body shape as well. And so, so, someone like you, even though we have kind of a comparable build, similar height and all that. But for you, you do much better with hinging movements. So I liked when we were loading you up on the Smith machine deadlift, making it more of a

Romanian style where you're not getting into the knees so much, but just creating so much length through the tissue and then being able to fire and generate force from that muscular sure that's being stretched. So I think for most people, hinging is the best place to be. So that would be a deadlift. The hip thrust pattern is technically a hinge. It's just a small range. It's like for some people it's a little sloppy looking.

It's not my favorite for everyone, but a hinge, cable, free barbell, dumbbell, kettlebell, you could do with anything. So I think that that's. Glute Bridge. Yeah, I like glue bridge. Bands? No. Blutebridge with bands?

No, not with bands. Why don't you like bands? Very unnatural. The band is very unnatural. in that move. Really? Okay. Yes.

I'm not so sciencey all the time. Okay. But from a biomechanic perspective, the band is having you push out. Okay. If you watch the most elite power lifters who are squatting 500 pounds, their knees all cave in as they come up because that's what's producing force is that knee valgus and the foot flattening. And it's way back.

better on your joints. That's the other thing I'll say. Everyone coming to me with hip pain, if you just snip that little band, got rid of it, your hip pain would probably go away. Everyone listening is like, God, I bought her bands from her hot at 40 posts last week. Now I have to return them. Sorry, we could fund a Pilate's ball because squeezing is better. Oh, really? A bridge of the squeeze. Okay. Way better. Not going to grow your butt specifically. However, the bridge is already doing that. That's what's tying in the glute. So I don't, think adding a band to a bridge is making or breaking. Bands are huge in Pilates. Yes. Or, I mean, just like when I was in Pilates yesterday, the rope, like you put the rope around your leg. It's kind of like

simulating the same feel as a band. But we use a band a lot for glute bridging and stuff like that because it creates tension, especially on the outer glute when you're bridging and doing certain things. But is that just more of a mobility thing? That's, I mean, that part of your glute is an external rotator. So of course, if I'm pushing my knees out, is that muscle firing? Absolutely. But is it firing and loading in a way that's making it bigger or putting enough stress through it to actually create a change in it to make it bigger? I don't think so. But can it tighten? Not no. Okay. Not no. But I don't, I mean, okay, I have some bands in the gym. Not for me. I allow other people to use them when they're there.

I don't think it's necessary. And I think if your hips don't feel good, don't use them. That's the bigger thing. Got it. If it doesn't feel good while you're doing it, don't do it. Okay, real quick, best move for abs. Are abs made in the kitchen or the gym? Genetic.

No, I'm just kidding. Probably, kind of. Yeah, a little bit. Natazi and I joke, if we were genetically able to make a child, that they would have a sick, six-pack. Yeah, because you guys both have abs. We have the opposite abs, though. Oh.

Yeah. Like, our abs complete each other, but independently, they're missing. That's cute. Yeah. I would say abs are made in the gym, truthfully. Hmm. I think so. But you have to be eating right for them to reveal themselves, right?

Yeah, of course. So how do you make them in the gym? I think what's missing from a lot of people's core routine is weighted ab work, right? So much of the Pilates, I guess, I don't know. Would you consider the reformer weighted? if you're doing body weight. If you have the cables going and then you're pushing and stuff, there's a little bit of resistance there.

Yeah. If you have your foot on the fucking spinner thing, have you ever seen those? That's the spinner. It's a plate that spins and you have to balance your foot on it. And then this is what we did yesterday. And then I had my leg on the platform, which had a couple of the things on. So that was weighted. And then you're doing lunges, but your foot is on this spinny thing.

And you're lunging back. and then you're externally rotating, and then you're like, it's very hard. It's difficult because that is a lot of odd coordination that doesn't appear. I'm going to take you. It doesn't show up anywhere else in the universe than in these crazy classes. But I felt it all in my glute. It only took eight props, okay? Yeah.

And I had to hold the position for 30 seconds, but then I really felt my glue fire. I really felt it. Because everything else was like, what the first? I'm going to take you because you need to experience for yourself. Yeah. I offer this to every trainer that comes on my show. Yeah. And look, I'm like a both and person. I love Pilates because I like it for mobility. I like it for my balance. I like it because it's super, super low impact. I sweat. It's hard. I feel I love it. I just love it for the feeling of it. And I do get toned. I love that you love it. Thank you.

You're welcome. I do tone from it. Yeah. I do. But where was I going with that? I don't remember. Just love it. Well, we were talking about the core.

Yes. And then you brought it back to your glutes as always. Yes. Building my butt was our huge aesthetic thing. And I sent you a picture in my bathing soon. Yes, he did. Sorry, Natasia. For day one.

I didn't tell her. So, no, I feel like a little weird. No. I mean, it was not a race. see photo or anything. I said, I have nobody to talk about this with because it was so big and lifted. Yeah, it was great. I was like, what? I was really proud. It was crazy. Yeah. And Chris. He also was like, sick. Right. That was good. That was perfect. But we've been like working on this for so long that I was like, I have to share this with you. And I think that is a very important point to reflect on. It takes time.

Yeah. musculature needs to be so dense and so thick for it to have that appearance that everyone wants, right? Yeah. And I mean, really think about it. There's no other muscle on your body that needs that much volume to be aesthetically what we want. So, you know, compare that to your deltoids.

That's significant difference. And so, okay, if it takes me three months to grow a nice shoulders, it would take me like a year to really fill out that tissue in a meaningful way where it has expanded. bulk. Yeah. And lift. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. In the butt. Yeah. Right. Doesn't everybody like one a little perky? Of course. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's hard in my elderly age. Elderly. But it gets harder. I mean, I look back at when I was like 20 something and it was just like that, just naturally. I didn't have to do anything.

That's fair. But for everyone listening who's not as elderly, that's the word you used, right? I didn't just say that. Geriatric. Start now. Wrong word. Start now. Just start building up that tissue and it will stay.

Yeah. Let's talk a little about the nutrition piece of it. Okay. Which we've touched on a little bit. But what should women actually be eating if they're lifting and they have aesthetic goals of being lean but toned, add some muscle. I mean, I think we've talked about macros. I think it's important, me personally, to kind of see where you're at. Yeah. You don't have to track every day, but I was shocked when I looked at mine. I think it's important for everyone to do a few days

of tracking every now and then, especially because most people are eating, I feel like 80% the same thing in a weekly basis, right? And so understanding when I'm I eat these particular meals and now I'm hitting X amount of calories, protein, fat, carb, just to have a rough idea and then knowing, oh, okay, if I skipped a meal this day, now I'm really under where I should be. And if I do that two days in a row and I'm training on top of that, we're going to start trending in a not good way. And that's actually, I think, where a lot of that puffiness comes from too. Because it's like another stressor in your body. Yeah, exactly. You're not able to recover in the way that you would if you had fueled properly after the workout.

How do you fuel properly after a workout? Protein or carbs are both? Both. Because I feel like everyone is like, do I eat protein before a workout? Or do carbs before a workout? Or do I do carbs after to restore the glycogen? There's so many different things. I think majority of people that I see men and women are coming, overtraining and under-eating. And it's a real real. It's a real problem. I don't know what it is. It seems like when you start entering that phase where you're training pretty consistently and you're being really cognizant of the things that you're eating in a way where you're not intentionally restrictive, but you're just eating less than you would if maybe you weren't on this fitness journey. But you end up down regulating your metabolism in a way

where your body isn't making you feel hungry anymore. It's like, oh, I can function at this. That's fine. and you just keep trending like that. And then all of a sudden, when you're like, why am I not growing muscle or losing fat or this or that? It's because these systems have downregulated and you've slowed your metabolism from this excessive training and not eating enough. So sometimes when people come to me, all we change is I'm going to cut you down on how much you're training. And I just have a base calorie goal I need you to hit. I don't even care about the macro split at that point. Just try to eat this many calories in a day.

Give me a couple weeks. weird, give me a couple weeks and let's see how you're feeling and how you're doing. Almost always, body looks good. Like, we've dropped a layer of that inflammation. We're starting, almost like you when you go on vacation. It's like that same type of effect, but it's from people eating more, which is a really interesting place.

I don't know if it's more prevalent because we're in L.A., right? And we're a little bit more health conscious here compared to, like, Middle America. But I've had, I mean, I have virtual clients who they're doing it too. way overtrained, way under eating. And it does a lot more harm than I think people can acknowledge. I think it's been so deeply ingrained in us, too. Men and women, like dieting, diet culture, eat less of this, eat more. And I think to your point, when you start exercising more, you become more conscious

and you want to achieve a certain aesthetic or whatever. And so the instinct is to eat less because you think you'll get there quicker. even though it's not it's not how it works because then when you try to cut and you're like oh I'll eat now I'll eat in a calorie deficit and then when your body really doesn't change then that gets you all bothered

does not eating enough make people hold on to wait yeah like is that true because I said that once maybe or somebody else said it on my podcast and somebody was like that's not actually true this whole thing that your body goes into like preservation mode where it's trying to hold on to whatever it has so that you don't starve is not real.

Perhaps that reasoning isn't quite right in the early stages, but further along, of course. My understanding, and this is the thing, we know a lot, but we don't know everything. And I read the research. I'm up to date. But anecdotally, I think that takes precedent in these situations when you're someone working with people and you're not working in a lab. You have to go off of what you're seeing with people. I think what happens is you're training super hard, you're burning lots of calories, and then you're not eating enough.

And so your body can't create more muscle because it doesn't have the energy availability for muscle synthesis. So then what happens, muscle is a metabolically active tissue, right? If we take away things that require calories to function, we're going to need less calories. And so we start taking away muscle. I think the logic could go either way. We're like, well, no, you'll burn fat for energy then. That's not true. Because you're actually going to get rid of muscle so that your energy demands are lower.

Because that fat doesn't burn calories. It's just there. Muscle does. And so if we can get rid of the thing that's asking for our energy, then we can keep living the way that we're living. Right. Yeah. And that's, again, like, this is things I've seen on Dexas scans before where we're tracking the change. and you're like, oh, hmm, tell me more about your diet.

Like, I think we're missing something here because you lost some muscle in this phase when we should have been building. And you look good and you feel good. But at the end of the day, it's like the change actually wasn't right. And a lot of it comes down to that calorie. What's your ideal day of eating? A lot. I know, Natanzas.

I like two lunches every day. You do? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Double lunch? Yeah, double lunch. What does Natalia call, like, dinner, double dinner? Is that when you have dinner and then leftovers for lunch the next? day. That's what I do. It's easier. Yeah. I do coffee first, a banana bread muffin. I start work at 7,

so I'm eating that at like 536. And then I go into work. This is the two lunch thing, okay? Because I don't really do a real breakfast. Got it. So then I'll have my first lunch at 10-ish. And it's usually chicken, broccoli, carrots, rice. And then I'll have my second lunch at two. And that's usually a steak, potato, vegetable of some sort. Like really country grown, I think. And then if I'm training after work or running, I'll eat something else snack. Like I'll do an orange chia. Okay.

I like the chia. Or I'll do a fruit or something right before I work out or run. And then I'll make a whole dinner, which steak. Yeah. We do a lot. We do steak on Wednesdays. We eat a fair amount of in and out. I'd say like once a week. I feel like I see that on both of your pictures. No salt on the patty makes it not count.

I do in and out, ground beef bowls, you know. Some guacamole in there. Can't have that either, but it's okay. I can picture it. Yeah. So I eat pretty good meals throughout the day. But I need a lot of food or else I'm not. But you're not training that much. No, I don't train that.

I don't train as much as one would think. Yeah. I'm eating. Yeah. What are you doing for training? Right now I'm doing two days a week of strength. I was only doing one. Last time we spoke about this one, I'm doing two.

And I run three days a week. And that's not because I think cardio is best for aesthetics. It's just a stupid goal I'm trying to hit. I actually don't like running at all. But I've set these silly goals that keep me accountable and push. outside of my comfort limits. And that's how I do. I golf.

That doesn't count, but I golf once a week. That's a lot of steps, though, unless you're... Nope, I'm in a cart. Okay, got it. Okay. Okay. Okay, last quick piece, because you mentioned running and cardio, how much cardio ideally should people be doing?

We talked about the bursts. Obviously, 10K steps is a thing. Yeah. I think cardio is really, really important for your lifespan. I think it can do tremendous things for your health overall. I don't think we put enough emphasis on it, mainly because it takes kind of a lot of time out of the week. But if you're not doing cardio, I would find a way to slot it in. And it doesn't need to be running, but a fast walk, like something that gets your heart rate up, just a little bit.

It doesn't need to be pounding or anything. But, you know, I would take someone doing a faster walk for less than 10Ks. steps, then someone just hitting 10K steps, like very nonchalantly throughout the day. Okay. I want to close with some rapid fire. Okay. Most overrated exercise. Oh my gosh. Banded glued bridges?

Yeah. Thank you. Anything with a band. Most underrated exercise. I think everyone likes what I like, which is the hinging. I think everyone likes a deadlift now. And like the single leg. We do a lot of those. It's a Bulgarian. Yeah. Yeah.

See, like other people, though, I wouldn't give that. for if they wanted to build their glutes. Oh. Because for some people, that can be very quad-dominant. Depends on... What do I say to you all the time? I can feel it in my clods. I don't feel it in my glutes.

I can feel it. You're just standing there, Ariel. I can't help you. Literally, I'm like, you're like, do you feel it in your glutes? No, I feel it in my quads. You're like, oh. Stand up. And then when I went on vacation, I was like, oh, I guess the glutes were working.

Yeah. Sometimes I do override and say, I don't care. Just keep on. So machine or free weights? I love both. I don't have machines in my gym. Why? Space.

Oh. I would have some. I think they're great. I think it's also a fantastic entry point for people. You're not going to get hurt. There's like a little sticker on the side that shows you what to do. And you can track your progress really easily because the weight stack has numbers on it. So I think they're fantastic.

You chose aesthetic over function with your gym. You know what? But I like it. It has everything. I love it. And I think if you're working with someone one-on-one, you would want them to be prioritizing the bigger compound free weight movements because that's the thing that requires some skill. Yeah. Or sitting on a machine. Anyone could figure it out. Yeah. True. Stairmaster? Yes or no. Love a stairmaster. I'm horrible at. Yeah. They're hard. Oh my God. When I met Natasia, she would do 100 flights. Yeah, Chris does it 30 minutes every day. Yeah, it's so good for you.

Then he goes for a hike. Yeah. He's every day. He lives to eat. He loves to eat more than I've ever seen anybody eat ever, ever. Yeah. I want to put a strong stamp of approval on the stair master. Anchor weights.

Is this a yes or no? No. Why? What are you using them for? Leg lifts. No, I don't know. No. Walking?

No. Weighted bests? Mm. Better than nothing. But no. Train through soreness? Depends. I don't think you have to. You're not a hero if you do and you're not a loser if you don't. Morning or evening workouts? If it were up to me, I would train in the morning. But, well, it is up to me because I make my own schedule, but I don't. I have learned to accept and appreciate the afternoon workout. And it's, it actually is nice. It's like a bookend to my day now where I know, okay, once I

put my shoes on and I go run or I go lift, it's like that's the end of anything serious in my day and now I get to go. That's nice. Biggest fitness myth. Biggest fitness myth is, I guess, the bulkiness thing. I feel like that's really important that we drive home. You're not getting bulky. What is the most realistic timeline to see body changes? Realistically, six months. physiologically, you only need about three, but I like to build in time where we're learning the nuances of your body or you're learning the nuances of your own body. And that allows time to course correct and see what makes the most sense to then be able to double down on the things that are really good and take away the things that are bad. Creatine, electrolytes,

BCAAs, pre-workout. I'm quite neutral on the subject. I think people, are understanding the proper dosing of electrolytes now. So I'm super not pro-supplement, I think, unless you have blood work and unless you understand what problem we're trying to solve with that solution. I don't think anyone needs to be doing supplements. Pre-workout's crazy. No, I mean, I did that in high school. Really? Oh, yeah. Does it just make you cracked out? Oh, it's great. No. I don't think anyone's really doing that anymore. But I don't think we need supplements and stimulants to achieve the highest result. And the same thing goes for like the ice baths, tawanas, and all these extra things.

It's not necessary. Just sleep good. Eat the things you love and not in excess. I think if you have the right balance of things, you don't need so much extra in it. Less is more. Amazing. You have an app now, right? Yeah, I do.

Is it like you training people? It's me. Yeah, we have an app, but it's not a thing that you could just purchase access to. So we do exercise programming for people. So basically really busy people who don't have time to work with a trainer in person or, you know, can't stick to a consistent schedule. We're able to write programming for them based off of their equipment and time and experience and everything. So it's totally custom to them. Built around goals.

Same thing. I still send these people to go get back. So it was just like if they were in person. And then we give support 24-7. So messaging between myself and one of my trainers that helps me out. And we do virtual calls. We do all of that. So it's like I'm right there in your pocket. Jenna in your pocket. Yeah. And you can watch me need a bicep curls on there. You should add our playlists on there. Yes. If you guys want the Ariel special, it's no clods, no shoulders the weekend. And Ruth is. Yeah. Same two albums. Yeah. We've started doing a little Justin Bieber, like newer stuff. You're welcome.

But usually it's just those. Or she'll come. Can we change the music? You just walked in. Sometimes it's a little like. Sometimes I have classic music playing. Yeah. I've got layers.

Okay. Yeah. You're dynamic. All right. Well, thank you. You're welcome. I hope you enjoyed that episode. If you liked the episode and if you like the show in general, please take

a second to rate, review, and subscribe. It goes such a long way in supporting the show. Follow the show over on Instagram at well.pod. You can also follow my personal Instagram at Ariel Lori. I'm always sharing great clips from the episodes. And we also have full episodes on YouTube as well if you want to watch in entirety. Thanks for listening. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals. on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.