Well with Arielle Lorre - 473: The Science of Beating Sugar Cravings, Weight Gain & How to Age Better with Colleen Cutcliffe, PhD

Episode Date: August 5, 2026

Dr. Colleen Cutcliffe is a PhD microbiologist, pioneer in translating cutting-edge microbiome science into clinically validated therapies and the co-founder and CEO of Pendulum. Her research focuses on the profound role our gut microbes play in metabolism, blood sugar regulation, immune function, and healthy aging, and she’s helping reshape how we think about chronic disease and longevity.In this episode, Dr. Cutcliffe joins me to discuss the fascinating connection between the microbiome and everything from sugar cravings and weight management to natural GLP-1 production, hormones, metabolism, and aging. We separate fact from fiction when it comes to probiotics, fiber, fermented foods, and microbiome diversity, and dive into the exciting new research on specific probiotic strains that may help support blood sugar regulation, reduce cravings, and improve metabolic health. We also discuss what stress, travel, antibiotics, and modern life are doing to our microbiomes, what we can learn from centenarians, and why the future of women’s health may lie in understanding the bacteria living inside us.Thanks to my sponsors:Head to armra.com/WELL or enter WELL to get 30% off your first subscription order.Go to CLEARSTEM.com/WELL and use code WELL at checkout to get 15% off your first order.Use code ARIELLE15 for $15 off your first purchase at thirdlove.comGo to fatty15.com/WELL and use code WELL at checkout for an additional 15% off their Starter Kit.Use code WELL and save 20% on your first order at https://justthrivehealth.com/WELL. Visit livemomentous.com and use promo code well for up to 35% off your first order.Visit vuori.com/well for 20% off your first purchase. Head to absorbmore.com and use code WELL at checkout for 35% off your first order. This episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct, or indirect financial interest in products, or services referred to in this episode.Produced by Dear Media.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a dear media production. This is Well, a podcast about wellness in all its forms. I'm Ariel Laurie, and each week I'm sharing unfiltered conversations with people shaping how we feel, live, and look. Come for the substance, stay for the honesty, and leave with the tools to be well, inside and out. I have to say that I kind of geeked out over having today's guest on my podcast. I first heard her on Armchair Expert and then subsequently,

on some other favorite podcasts of mine, and I was so honored that she joined me today for this conversation. I am talking about Dr. Colleen Cutliff. She is a PhD microbiologist, co-founder and CEO of Pendulum, and truly one of the leading experts in the world on the human microbiome. So she spent years in biotech and academia studying the trillions of bacteria that live inside us before helping pioneer some of the first clinically validated probiotics designed to target metabolic health. So if you've been hearing all the buzz around gLP1, blood sugar, longevity, or the microbiome, she is one of these scientists helping shape that conversation. And in this episode, we get into some really fascinating topics, including whether it's actually possible to support your body's natural

GLP1 production, why some people seem to crave sugar constantly while others don't, and how to interfere with that signaling if you're one of the people who does. We talk about what your microbiome has to do with metabolism, weight management, hormones, healthy aging, and why so much of the advice that we've all heard about probiotics and gut health is either oversimplified or just wrong. Dr. Cutliff also shares actionable ways to improve your microbiome, the everyday habits that can actually make a difference, what the latest science says about building better metabolic health for the long term. So whether your goal is feeling better today, aging well, or simply understanding the science behind one of the hottest topics in health right now. I think you're going to get

so much out of this conversation. And even if you feel like your microbiome is healthy, she points out in this episode that you can have no digestive issues or symptoms and still need to improve upon the resilience of your gut. So without further ado, please enjoy my conversation with Dr. Colleen Culliffe. Welcome. Thanks so much for having me. I'm so excited to have you here. I first heard you on Armchair Expert, which is my favorite podcast. We were just talking about it off mic. And so I'm so honored that you are here. And there's so much that I want to delve into today with you. But first, I want to do a round of finish the sentence. This is something that I've been doing with. Oh, boy. Okay. So the biggest gut health myth is that all your problems can be solved through the gut.

That is a generalization that's been perpetuated lately. It is being perpetuated. So I'm hoping that by starting with that, people, know that I'm not here as a hammer seeing everything is a nail. There are some real solutions in the gut, but not everything is solved through the gut. Okay, we'll circle back on that. The one food people unfairly demonized is. This might be controversial, but I think alcohol is being demonized right now. I think it's a little unfair. Really? Say more. Well, certainly there is really good documentation around the health detriments of alcohol. And so I'm not arguing with any of that. But I would say there are upsides to alcohol in terms of how they build community and bring us together and take a little bit of, you know, if you're an introvert or you feel uncomfortable, it takes a little bit of those barriers. It allows you to be a part of a community or a conversation that you otherwise wouldn't.

And those have value. Community has value. And being a part of that has value. And I think we lose a little bit of that, the mental upside of alcohol as we start to like go to extremes and want everybody to cut all alcohol out of your lives forever and ever. I just think it's an extreme that it doesn't acknowledge some of the upside. And I feel like that's happening in a lot of areas in our lives right now, like where there's this hyperfixation on optimization and biohacking and everything. And it's at the expense of having an enjoyable life. Yes, exactly. You may live longer. You may not, but it'll feel longer. Yeah, exactly.

The microbiome is a lot more blank than people realize. The gimmie would be complicated. and I think, unfortunately, I think that's probably the right word. Okay. We'll do one last one. A healthy gut does not necessarily mean that you have no GI issues. Hmm. Interesting.

Okay, we'll bookmark that one as well. So I heard you in another interview saying something that actually contradicts what I think so many of us have heard and things that even other experts who have been on my podcast have said, which is that diversity is the most important thing. right? I think that you said that the biggest misconception is that diversity is king, and that's not exactly true. So why don't we start there? Yeah, I think in the early days when this research was starting to come out, it became clear that there was a correlation between diversity and so-called healthy people. But I think as we started to dig in, we meaning the greater, I think, international

scientific community, has started to dig in more into, well, what are each of these specific things doing? it becomes clear that it's not as much diversity, but more about what are the different functions that you need? And do you have all those populated? If you think about it, it's sort of like a, you know, a community like a town where you have all these different players. And yes, diversity of a town is helpful, but it matters what kind of diversity. Like you need a police station. You need a fire department. And so it's not just diversity, but it's actually specific functions that you need. And so I think the first thing is it's not just diversity. It's what functions do you have in your microbiome. But the second thing is we are starting to learn that it's also about having a dynamic microbiome. So as you face different, you know, assaults to your microbiome and different health issues,

the people who are having the best longevity or the best healthy aging, it looks like they have the microbiome that can evolve the most. So it's actually their microbiome can change much more easily and therefore adapt to new situations. And so that appears to be an important factor in the microbiome as well. How does one get their microbiome to that point, or is it something that's inherited? I mean, how much of this is like nature versus how much is nurture, essentially? Well, in a lot of ways, like how well your microbiome can adapt, I think we don't know. I think that's correlative studies that are just coming out, but it makes sense intuitively that adaptability and evolution are what allow you to kind of go with the changes that are

happening around you. I think we don't understand as much about what you, what sort of your inherent microbiome, what you inherited from your parents, what's going to be hard to change versus what you can change. We know a lot about what changes your microbiome. And I think the beauty of the microbiome that's different from your genes is that you can change it. For a long time, I think we thought, well, microbiome is the nurture part of the equation and your genes are the nature part of the equation. I think we're starting to realize, like, well, actually your microbiome has some of the nature part in it too, but there's a lot of nurture. You can really modify your microbiome at any stage of life.

and that's what allows you to have a lot more control over your health at any moment, no matter what's happened to you. That's very encouraging to hear it's somebody who has a sensitive stomach and system. And I've always been curious about that because my brother is the same way, but my parents are not. And so I've wondered, you know, is this something that happens like in utero when your microbiome is developing or is it something that happens as a result of early antibiotic use or, you know, whatever your exposures are? Did your parents grow up in a different city or environment from you and your sibling?

A different city, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Same region, but different city. Yeah. I mean, I think there's a lot that happens in childhood. And to your point, from the minute you're in utero through childhood that can set the stage for your microbiome. And I think until recently, we haven't known a lot of the tools that you can use to modify your microbiome. So I think there's hope to get the gut you want. Yeah. Why don't we get into some of the ways that we can modify our microbiome? Because I think that a lot of people feel like it's just the hand that they've been dealt, right? Whether you have something like IBS or another condition, CBO, a lot of people have, you know, chronic issues with their digestion. And just having experienced like short little bouts of things throughout my life, I know how frustrating that can be. And I think that, you know, it's great to give the listeners a little bit of hope if they are dealing with something like that. Yeah. So the starting point is exactly what you said, which is that we meet a lot of people who say, well, I've just always had a sensitive stomach or I've never really been able to eat X, Y, or Z, or I can go out with all my friends and they can eat the same thing as me, and I'm the only one that gets sick, and this is just me. And I think that doesn't have to necessarily be the case. And so you can start to explore, are there ways that I can bring these new functions into my microbiome that might enable me to be able to eat these different foods? And one of the, I think biggest misconceptions that people have when they're dealing with this is I have to keep

cutting back and cutting back and cutting back. And that's fine when you're trying to narrow down to like what gives me, you know, what minimizes the discomfort. But then I think you have to then move into the adding back one by one because you have to retrain your gut. Because if you think about it, these are all microorganisms living inside of you and you are the only source of their food. You alone dictate who gets fed and who doesn't. And so if you, you keep narrowing down, narrowing it down, you're going to have fewer and fewer of these functions in your microbiome. And so you have to slowly start to add back through supplementation and food and nutrition, the microbes that get you the different functions back. And that's the

name of the game is what are the functions that I'm missing? How do I get them back? And how do I do in a way that's not going to be crippling for me? And so I always highly recommend that if you, you're really trying to approach this in a really thorough manner, that you get a healthcare practitioner to work alongside you on it so that they can really be thinking about the totality of your health and they can be doing all the right testing for you. There's a lot of gut microbiome tests out there. Having a practitioner who can usher you through what those results mean and what to do about it, if you've ever taken a gut test, you know, like, okay, what do I do with all this information? And so I think getting a great healthcare practitioner, integrative functional medicine

doctors are going to be helpful for taking you on this journey. And what you ought to find is they may take you down on, you know, dietary restrictions, but they should immediately bring you back up. And they're going to use a bunch of diagnostic tests to help guide you on how to build your microbiome back up so that you can have this resilient microbiome that can evolve with changes. And that's really the goal is the resilient microbiome. Yeah. Something that you said really resonated, which was that I think what happens when somebody is experiencing some kind of symptom that's uncomfortable, the instinct is to restrict and keep removing things. And you remove yourself back into a corner where, you know, there's no options.

And then if you deviate from whatever very limited diet that you have, you experience those symptoms or worse, I feel like with like low FODMAP, that's a big one. I know people that have been low FODMAP for years. Wow. And FODMaps are prebiotic fiber, right? I mean, that's what's feeding the good bacteria in your gut. And I think that there's understandably a fear. to reintroduce things when you're in discomfort. But are there ways that you can kind of train your gut while you're in that process? Obviously, working with a medical professional is ideal. But like probiotics, prebiotics, like how can you make your gut more resilient in that way?

Yeah. I think just a second what you're saying, absolutely. I think it's scary to start to step back into things that you know we're going to make you feel uncomfortable at the onset. But the thing to keep in mind is that the body is built for adapting. to change. And so, for example, peanut allergies, one of the most effective therapies to peanut allergies is peanuts. Yeah. And so you just... Same with eggs, right? Yes. Yeah. And so the exposing your body to it and being like, it's fine, that's sort of the key. And so one of the, I would say, you know,

two big things are nutrition, trying to get more fruits and vegetables into your diet, but not doing, like, this fiber maxing thing that's happening right now is like going to be probably creating a great, It's probably funded by the toilet paper industry. Yeah. Big toilet paper. Yes, big toilet paper. Cottonel is, but I mean, in all, but truthfully, if you all of a center of fiber maxing, you're going to be on the toilet.

Like, it's going to create massive GI distress. So like, don't do that. You want to start to introduce things a little bit at a time. And fruits and vegetables, the produce section of the grocery store is a great place to start. Alternatively, you can start in a place like the lentils and the bean section. but again, you know, and I mean like really small, like start with a teaspoon, right? Work your way up because you are really trying to introduce and build. That's the food that's going to feed those microbes.

Now, you may be depleted, totally depleted in those microbes. And so in that case, kind of doing the one-two punch of giving yourself the probiotic supplement with the prebiotic nutrition is going to be a way to kind of accelerate getting to the microbiome that you want and that you need. And so in that case, you want to be thinking about there are. there are certainly foods with probiotics in them. So there's yogurts and kombucha and kimchi. Those all have families of bacteria called lactobacillus, and some of them have bifidobacterium

in them. That's a good way to reconstitute those strains. Now it gets a little trickier when there are strains that you're missing and functions that you're missing that haven't been found in any foods. And this is where going to pills and supplementation can be an opportunity. And that's where kind of, you know, we've been spending a lot of our research time and energy on is, well, what are the things that you may have had when you were younger and you've lost over time? What are things that healthy people have a vast abundance of, but people who

have GI issues or metabolic issues or immune issues are lower entirely missing? And how can we give those back to people? And it turns out that a bunch of those have never been found on foods. And so you really need to get the supplementation of those specific probiotics through pills. And it's like, is that like the acrimancia? Yes, exactly. So acrimands. would be a great example of that where acromancey hasn't been found on any foods, except for mother's breast milk. And so the idea is like, you get it from your mom if you were breastfed and then you spend the rest of your life trying not to lose it.

And if you weren't breastfed, you may have never been inoculated with this strain. And so a lot of the gut issues that you have could be attributed to you just low or never had this strain. And so some of the work that we done was to pioneer, how do you grow acrimancia outside of the body? and then how do you deliver it to people so that they can reconstitute their acromancey and get back all of its benefits? And what are the implications of having higher levels of that?

Well, for most people, when they have low levels, when I should say not most people, there's thousands of publications showing that low levels of acromancy are associated with GI issues, digestive issues, metabolic issues like weight issues and diabetes issues, immune issues, inflammatory issues. And so there's a lot of studies around that. And so what people find is when they're able to recondy issues, just this one probiotic strain, all of a sudden they have these improvements across different things. And I'll share with you one of the big things is food cravings and specifically

sugar cravings. So similar to feeling like, oh, I've always just had a sensitive stomach. A lot of people feel like, well, I just have a sweet tooth. I've always been susceptible. I'm always the one eating all the cookies. I love candy. And it turns out that there's a whole feedback loop in your body and your brain between your gut and your brain, basically saying like we're still hungry and it goes through the GLP1 pathway. And your microbiome can stimulate your body's natural GLP1 and acrimancia is one of the strains that's been proven to be able to do that. And there are two, right? There's two. There's acromansia, mecinophila and clostridium, buty and so if you are low in these strains and then you start to reconstitute them and you

have all their friends that they work with and that same function, that same department together, people report back like insane reductions in sugar cravings, fast food cravings, carb cravings, all these things were, and we hear, you know, these stories about like, oh, you know, I'm always the one, like if I open a chocolate bar, I have to eat the whole thing. Like there's no such thing as like I eat a bite and then I close it back up and put it away, eat the whole thing. And now I am that person. I can have a bite of a chocolate bar and I can put the thing away.

I can open a bag of chips and I have to finish the whole thing. And these are stories about. people who had a lot of self-blame and guilt. And, well, this is just me. And it turns out, like, it's not, you know, if you can break that signaling, it doesn't have to be you. One of the interesting things is that the, the GLP-1 drugs, I mean, they're designed because scientists found that, oh, you have this GLP-1 in your body, and people who are lower missing it have this, you know, it results in pre-diabetes and type 2 diabetes. And so they made the drug to mimic this thing that your body can make on its own. So if you've ever taken a GLP-1, and it's how.

helped you, but you're like, oh, I don't want to be on this thing forever. That means that you are probably low in GLP1. And since your microbiome can stimulate it, you probably do have a missing set of gut microbes, and you could start looking into that. And you would find that through doing something like a GI map. You could do it through GI map. You could also, I'm, this is terrible, but I'm not like, as into that testing at all. I feel like, well, if I take the thing and it works, I'm good. Yeah. Trial and error. Yeah. And if it's like, let me just try this thing for 90 days. I mean, I can take a pill for 90 days. And if it works, you know, you know. Is there an adjustment period where somebody might take it and have some kind of side effects

initially and then they kind of get over that hump and then they're better? I mean, should people expect that? It does happen for some people, definitely. Most people when they first start taking those strains will feel a immediate improvement to their GI. But there are people who feel an immediate bloating or gassiness and even stomach pains and things like that. I always say like if you're feeling something, it means it's doing something in your body. And so in that case, these might be strains that you're really totally missing. And your body and your microbiome is adjusting to that and trying to like, okay, how do we maneuver around this guy? And so you should lower your dose back.

Again, going back to this idea of microdosing and slowly introducing things, you know, take a pill every three days. See if you can, you're basically training and getting these things back integrated into your body and then ramp your way back up. But if it's causing you GI distress, you know, again, the natural instinct is to be like, ooh, that was terrible for me. But I would say before you go there, you know, for 30 days, just try spacing them out and see if you can develop a tolerance for them. And then you can start to reconstitute the strains. What are some other ways that the health of our gut is going to show up in our overall

well-being? Yeah, I think the most, the thing we know the most about and the thing that that most people are impacted by is their GI. So digestion, having an upset stomach, diarrhea. constipation. Usually that's where you kind of think about having a healthy gut microbiome can impact you. But yes, we touched on metabolism. So improving your food cravings, your overall metabolism. And that can be independent of your GI because we have a lot of people who are like, well, I'm not on probiotic because my GI is perfectly great. And then they realize when they go on these products,

their A1C goes down. And so you might, those two things might not be related for you and what you feel. The other thing that's a big deal that might be unrelated is your immune system. And so we also see people saying like, oh, once I reconstitutes my gut, I never had GI issues or metabolic issues. But now I don't get sick every time somebody around me sick, I'm not catching that cold too. Or I went through all a flu season and I didn't get it this year. So your immune system is another independent place where you might not have GI distress, but you get an improvement there. And then the last place that I think is really interesting or the fourth place that's interesting is the gut brain. brain connection can help when we think about things like stress and anxiety and depression.

And you might have those without having any GI issues. And in that case, a healthy microbiome is a microbiome that actually produces neurotransmitters that can help you with stress and anxiety and depression. And so all of these things, your GI, your metabolism, your immune system, and your brain health, these are all things that may be connected for you and the things that you feel, but they may actually not be. So you could have those improvements and have a totally healthy GI. Yeah. So would you recommend that everybody take probiotics? I think you have to know what you're trying to solve for. I think this sort of general thing of taking probiotics, hopefully none of my investors is listening to this, but I don't think everybody needs to be on a probiotic. I don't. I think if you

have a strong microbiome and you have the right nutrition, and so that means you are eating high fiber, polyphenol foods. You can do this through diet and exercise alone. You don't really need to be, much like you don't need to be on diabetes drugs. If you can tackle it through diet and exercise alone, same thing with these probiotics. There are some specific strains that, as we said, you can't, you know, really get through foods. And if you do something like go on an antibiotic, which sometimes you have to do, or you get a bacterial infection or a viral infection that wipes out your microbiome, you may want to supplement with those for a period of time. But those also, like acrimancia, will grow if you're having a lot of fruits and vegetables and lentils and spices in your diet,

you're going to help that acrimancia colonize and grow. So I think in general, you should go on a probiotic if you're trying to solve a particular problem and you shouldn't feel like you have to take it forever. Would you say, especially with the research and everything, that the environment that we live in now and the food that a lot of us are eating is affecting our microbiome in a negative way more so than it did in the past? And, you know, when we think about, you know, your parents versus you guys, I think one of the biggest changes that's happened is food in the food industry. And how many additives are now, you know, being put into the food system because it allows things to, you know, to be packaged up and have long shelf lives and be able to be transported. And, you know, you're kind of out of what's natural food and into what much more processed food.

You know, the whole thing has shifted more towards processed foods. and it is depleting our microbiomes, and it is altering them in ways that are maybe not helpful for our health. And so I do think avoiding processed foods is smart for a variety of reasons. And moreover, like, you've ever been thinking about having a garden, like, as a fun sidebar project? Like, it's a great idea. You know exactly what you're putting into that, how you're growing it, what you're adding to it, and you literally are creating your own farm to table. And so if you think that's a fun hobby, like, go for it. I always think it's interesting how much we are exposed to every day from travel to lack of sleep,

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Estrobalome. Okay. Let's talk about that a little bit. and how they gut influences hormones and vice versa, because there's kind of a cycle. Is that right? Yeah, your gut is sort of amazing in how many hormones and small molecules it makes. So it makes the hormone, GLP1, GIP1, GIPLN is actually a hormone. And it also can stimulate estrogen and it looks like potentially testosterone. And so the way it works, so if we just take estrogen for a second, is that your ovaries make your estrogen. There's a couple of other organs that can make estrogen too, but primarily for us women,

our ovaries make estrogen. We go through puberty. This is when we start to get this introduction of estrogen and our menstrual cycles and estrogen kind of going up and down. So your ovaries make estrogen and that estrogen can go to one of two places. One is it can just be circulating free in your bloodstream and then it's doing all of its work as estrogen does. And the other is that it can go to your liver and when it goes to your liver, it gets a tag put on it, and that tag senses straight to your gut microbiome, and your microbiome has a decision. It can either flush that estrogen out of your body,

like literally you just pee it out, or it can take that tag off and send it back into circulation. Your body is dictating how much of this goes to the microbiome, and your microbiome is dictating how much of it do we actually get rid of and how much of this estrogen do we put back into circulation. And the really interesting thing is that before puberty, you don't have any of those microbes that make that decision. And then when you go through puberty, you have a ton of these microbes because they're like,

okay, this is a function you need. We need to have this function of, does the estrogen go back or does it go out? And then when you look at women who are postmenopausal, you see that whole department, that whole function has gone away. And so this is all about like your microbiome adapting to your body's needs. And so the question is, okay, well, when you're going through perimenopause and menopause and you're getting this like huge cliff of estrogen. That leads to all these symptoms and issues and things that we really don't want.

And so HRTs are a solution to that because you're basically supplementing your body with estrogen to make this cliff kind of a little less, you know, cliff feeling. And the other potential target is your microbiome. So if, and actually if you overlay those microbes, remember I said they go away by the time you're menopause that are gone. If you overlay those microbes with estrogen levels, the lines exactly overlap each other. Really? So if you could get those microbes to be in your in your gut at this level, then your estrogen levels presumably would also do that. So you can tackle through HRTs, but the natural way would be to go up to these strains that are in the so-called astrobalome. And how do you do that?

Yeah, great question. None of those strains is currently on the market today, but stay tuned. Oh, okay. A little teaser. So it's not something that you can get through food or that you can influence through food. The strains that have been identified that are in the, ostrobalome so far are not really, well, one of them is actually E. coli. Oh. Don't we all have some E. coli though? And it does do this. I don't know if you want to go out and find foods of the E. coli in them.

No, thanks. I think I may have two weeks ago. You're feeding your strobolin. But yeah, I think in general, you're not, these are not things that you're going to find food. So this is going to be a place where supplementation will help. Interesting. Okay.

So it seems like we're kind of missing a huge piece of the puzzle when it comes to perimenopause and menopause where we're going straight to the hormone instead of to the microbiome. Yeah, and this is all really totally new discovery. And so again, like nobody knew the microbiome could stimulate GLP1 until very recently. And there's very few and far between published papers on how the microbiome can affect your estrogen levels. And to your point, well, what can I do about this now? That is definitely still TBD. And so I think it's all new science. But this is going to be the natural way. that we can help our bodies improve menopause and perimenopausal symptoms. And then with like just general aging, what differences do you see in the microbiome of somebody

who lives a very long quality, healthy life versus somebody who doesn't? There have been a few studies on kind of healthy people who are, you know, elderly and healthy versus people who are elderly and sick. And then there's been a couple of studies on centenarians, so people who live past 100 years old. And both of the, you know, them have a couple of commonalities. One is this acrimancia strain. They tend to have higher levels of that strain than their counterparts. And the other is a family of functional strains that create a molecule called buterate. So these buterate producing strains tend to be higher in people that are aging in a healthy way or living past 100. And so the buterate producing function and then this specific acrimancia

strain are two big things. And then in one of the centenarian studies, they also showed that Chlstridium butericum, that other GLP1 producer was higher in the people who lived past 100. So I think as there's not so many studies on it, but I think as more studies are done, we should see more things starting to pop up. No matter what your age or how young you are, you should be working on your gut microbiome because that is going to help you with all these different systems in your body. That being said, because you can change your microbiome at any time, there's going to be a battery of microbiome tools that we have now, but even more that are going to show up as research continues that will help you later. Yeah, yeah. I think there's stuff that

you can do later. But I mean, even with my kids, I've been focused on their guts since they were very little. Really? Yeah. What's your stance on antibiotics? Don't ask for it. Wait for your doctor to tell you you need it. And in general, going to the doctor is, you know, I think we've, we hold off in our house before we're taking, before we're going to the doctor taking any prescription medication. And my husband's actually a doctor. And so I think your body, especially with, little kids, you have an immune system that needs to be trained. And so if you never send it into war, you're going to have an army that doesn't know how to be in war. And so you want to let it have these little wars so that you can build your immune system, you can build all the different things

that allow you when there's a big war to be able to fight that. And if every time there's an inkling of a war might be coming and you go in with all these reinforcements, these artificial reinforcements, you're never actually training your own immune system. And that's problematic. And so in general, don't ask for antibodies because that's that sort of fake additional armor that doesn't allow you to fight things. However, if you have a bacterial infection, you can die from that. So if your doctor are saying, like, you got to take these antibiotics, like, just please take them. Yeah. But don't ask for them and don't kind of go out of your way at the minute something's wrong to try to go get antibiotics. I just feel like we're a little cavalier about antibiotic use. Even with myself,

like I was in Europe in June and I had a cold and I went to the doctor there because, I mean, it was bad, but it was a cold. And they gave me a Z-pack and I was like, I don't know. You know, and I didn't take it. And same with the stomach infection. I was prescribed two different antibiotics, but just based on vibes. Yeah. Not based on testing. Yeah. And I just get nervous because I don't want to make things worse. Obviously there's a time and a place. least, but, and I just feel like it's kind of prescribed as like a panacea sometimes for things that maybe don't actually call for it. Yeah, absolutely.

And, you know, you had a cold and you didn't take the antibiotics and you lived. You're here today. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I think if it's a life or death situation, you know, you want to do it. But most of the time, you're right, it's not. And I, you know, for me personally, my first daughter was born prematurely and she was on antibiotics in intensive care. care. So like at the hospital, she was on antibiotics, and that was a prophylactic. She didn't even

have an infection, but she was four and a half pounds when she was born. And they're like, if this baby gets an infection, like, we're done. And so that's why they give them antibiotics. And what the, and I think for a long time, we sort of felt like, well, antibiotics, like, it doesn't hurt you, we could only help you. And I think now we realize that's not true. It can actually hurt you. And it did hurt my daughter. It depleted her microbiome in ways that she was not recovering from until she started really focusing on her gut health. And, you know, but I think people also like that they're able to do something proactive about their health. And so I think a lot of people take antibiotics because they feel like, okay, I'm helping my body.

And you might be hurting it inadvertently. I mean, my dad still always asked for Z-Pack. Any time he's got like the sniffle, he's like, I go to the doctor and get my Z-Pack. I mean, I just, I'm like, dad, you're- I know so many people that do that too. I'm like, I literally am in the microbiome. I'm telling you don't go get a Z-pack. And he's like, I'm just going to go get my Z-pack and I'll feel better.

I used to do that too. My dad is a doctor as well. And like when I was in my 20s, any time I had like a sniffle, same thing. I'd be like, can I have a Z-PAT? He's like, no. Absolutely not. But there was a time when I did because I was, it was probably placebo, you know, I was convinced that it was doing something. And oftentimes the timing of when you're taking it does like match up with when you get here. But it is, I think it gets to an inherent nature of, you know, you're probably a very proactive person. You're like, okay, I've got this problem. I want to, I want to figure out a solution to it. I think for a lot of people who are asking for those Z-packs, that is the personality type. You've got a problem, you want to solve it, and you want to be involved in being person helping to solve that. And I think that the idea here is, you know, are there natural ways or ways that you can bolster your microbiome that can help you fight these things off? That's still something proactive you can do that doesn't have like these downsides of the antibiotics. There are a few supplements that are true non-negotiables now that I am 40. And if you have been listening to this podcast for a while, you might know that I am a huge believer.

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matter. And I just love brands that solve problems that people don't even realize that they have. And I think absorption is one of the most overlooked conversations in wellness. So start taking supplements that your body can actually absorb. Go to absorbmore.com and enter the code well at checkout for up to 35% off your first order. That's absorb more.com and the code as well for up to 35% off your first order. That's absorbmore.com and the code as well for up to 35% off your first order. What are some foods we mentioned like kefir and maybe fermented foods before, but what are some foods that people could incorporate into their diets daily to make sure that their microbiome is being fed?

So fermented foods and yogurts that have probiotics added to them, which by the way, all the yogurts on the shelves have probiotics added to them. They literally... It's not natural. Probatic, I mean, yogurts, if you make your own yogurt, it does actually have probiotics in it and yeast and things like that. But when you buy probiotic off the shelves, they literally heat kill all the bacteria and then they had it back in after it. Which is fine. You're still getting them, but it's not like the natural probiotics in the yogurt.

Is that why people like raw milk? Yeah. Raw milk is like they... Because it's not pasteurized. Exactly. The pasteurization process, which we take most of our dairy products through, is... kind of killing off all those bacteria. But I would say those are things that you can consume that have bacteria probiotics in them or added to them. The real beauty of food and good nutrition is that

it's the food for your microbes. And so I would expand that out and say that anything high fibers, so all, again, in the produce section, you think about the, you know, the leafy greens, asparagus, artichokes, all of these things are really good. And then fruits. Like if you like fruits, that sugar is much better than processed sugar for you. And so you can kind of get sugar from your fruits, but you are also getting with that fiber and polyphenols. And so those are great things to have in your diet. Those are all really awesome for your gut microbiome. You're probably buying produce anyway. And so if you want to add a little bit more, that's fantastic. What is the hierarchy between probiotics, prebiotics, fiber, and fermented food? Oh, God. Yeah. Yeah. It's like we need a drawing,

I'll want you to draw this out. Okay, so the probiotics, let's just start there. The probiotics are all the bacteria and things that are in your gut that are doing all the work. The probiotics are the ones that are helping to stimulate your GLP1. They're the ones that are stimulating your estrogen. They're the guys doing all the hard work for digestion. So the probiotics are the live bacteria. The prebiotics are their food. And fiber is a prebiotic that is a food for those strains, those probiotics. So you eat prebiotics to feed your probiotics in your gut. And so when you're taking a probiotic, you're actually taking the bacteria. When you're eating a prebiatic, you're eating the food for the probiotic. So you want to pair, that's why people like to pair them together with the prebiotic plus

the probiotic is the one to punch, the food and the strain. Okay, got it. How often can you change your microbiome? I mean, it's within days, right? Well, if you've ever traveled somewhere and eaten something, you can change your microbiome in a day. Yeah, in a day. Yes. For better or worse? For better or worse? Yes.

Yeah. I mean, a lot of people get travelers' diarrhea, and that's a very common thing. And so for a lot of people, that onset is like within the first day that they arrive somewhere and they're eating different foods. And is that just because of the bacteria on that food is different from what we're exposed to at home or where we're normally eating? It's potentially the bacteria that's on that food. It could be other microorganisms.

It could be the food itself, like that it's just food, like a food that you're not used to eating and it has all these different, you know, composition that your body's not used to digesting. It's, it could be a wide variety of, yeah, it's all of it. Okay. All of the above. Is there something in your research that was like the most shocking to you that you can think of about the microbiome? Well, I think, and that acromancea discovery that it's only in mother's breast milk so far. I mean, maybe we'll find in some remote random food, but people have been looking for it. I thought that was pretty shocking. I mean, I thought that was pretty shocking that you've got this strain that's so important. It stimulates your body's natural GOP1 and it's basically also in charge

of the structure of your gut lining. I mean, that is really important. How is it possible that it's only in mother's breast milk? And if you're not breastfed or you're just screwed? Yeah. So I found that to be like, what is happening in Mother Nature? How could this be the case? That's shocking. And how do we lose these strains that are so beneficial to us over the years? Is it just from not being exposed to them anymore or are there certain things that we're doing that are like killing them or how does that happen yeah i mean antibiotics are the most potent way i mean that's basically like a nuclear bomb to your microbiome and so if you've taken an antibiotic you've you've definitely probably eliminated most of your strains the second thing is the food that we are saying so if you're not feeding your acromancea

that's another way you can lose it and acromancea loves polyphenols it loves fruits it loves spices it loves green teas all of those things are helping to feed your acrimancia so if you're not feeding it, that's another way you can lose, and it's not just acromancey, it's other strains, too. But we also know there's things that are outside of our control, besides taking an antibiotic and the food that we eat. We know that when you go through periods of intense stress, you lose certain microbes. We know that actually when you travel and your circadian rhythm gets disrupted, that can cause you become depleted in microbes. We know that just as we age, all the things related to that somehow multifactorially, we start to become depleted. And we know that when

we go through big hormonal changes like menopause, we lose certain microbes. And so these are all just like, that's life. You're going to travel places you're going to have stress. And so there's a lot of reasons your microbiome could become depleted. And then you're really just trying to reconstitute it. I'm like, I am all of the above. I just traveled. I just got a bacterial infection. I'm in perimenopause, presumably. I'm stressed. What else? And then you ate a piece of fish and your body is like, that's it. Yeah. Just forget it. Yep. Exactly. Exactly. It was like, we're done here. Yeah. I think what I'm getting from this is that I need acromancea.

Hopefully we'll give you some of the, there's a formulation that has acromancey in it, but it has these other strains. So remember I said healthy aging and people who live over 100, they're not just not as acromancy. It's these buterate producers. And that's a series of different strains. And so we have a product that has all of those in it plus acromancea. So that's what I'm going to get you. Great. Okay. I want to do some myth busting, some gut health wellness trends. ends. Apple cider vinegar for the gut. Good, bad, neutral. Neutral. Seed oils. I think those have some benefit because they do have ingredients in them that can serve as, you know, prebiotics to feed strains. Bone broth. Same. I think that that is good. Colin cleanses. Again, in moderation, I think that if,

in general, like overabundance of things or, I mean, it depends on which type of colon cleanse we're talking about here. But I think in general, this idea where people are, you know, fasting or they're doing just broth for a period of time, like if a lot of people feel much, much better after they do that, and I think that that's perfectly fine. And it does clear your system. The only thing I would say the caveat to that is that if you're doing that, just keep in mind, again, they're all depending on you and what you've, feed them. So whatever you first start consuming, that's your chance to reset the stage. So if you're doing that, first thing you should go after or put into your body should be high greens, high veggies, high fruits and start, because now you're going to kick off all the good microbes. Okay. What about colonics? It's extreme. Yeah. It feels better for you. Fine. Go for it. I don't know how that feels good,

but I think for some people on the other side of that, I mean, it's basically a colon cleanse in a potent, way. So not against it, but I wouldn't say like you should, everyone should go do that. Parasite cleanses. Yeah, that is if you have a parasite, you should do that. It's like antibiotics. Like, do it if you've got the problem. Yeah. How legitimate are food sensitivity tests? You know, I don't know that I can answer that question thoroughly. I do, we do have people who have come to us and said from their food sensitivity tests and also just from themselves, they know, you know, they have a list of things that they can't eat. And so they're trying to reconstitute their microbiome to be able to eat those foods again.

I don't know. I think the best food sensitivity test is probably. Yeah. Try it and try it. Trial and error. Keep a journal. Digestive enzymes. Are these beneficial sometimes?

Yeah. I think they can be beneficial. Okay. What's the biggest gut health mistake that you see people making? It's probably a lot of things you just listed. Yeah. The extreme cleanses. Pelonics.

Parasite cleanses. I mean, again, you know, if you do, you're doing a cleanse, this is again, like the diet restriction. You're pulling everything back. Just remember, like the step, the step two is the reconstituting. So you're going to make sure that you're doing the right thing by nutrition. I think the biggest mistake people make with their gut health is they're just sort of doing it to do it. They're just taking a probiotic to take a probiotic. I really think that you should be thinking about what is the health thing that I'm trying to do and what am I trying to achieve? And is this the right probatic for me to take. There's a lot of probiotics on the shelves. It's a messy, messy

landscape and there's a lot of fake stuff out there. And, you know, Amazon does not have, for example, their own quality system to make sure that what you're buying is what's actually in your bottle. So buyer beware, you know, don't go for the cheapest per pill maybe, but look for legitimate, you know, qualified companies. And so just because you're taking a pill called a probiotic, doesn't mean you're actually doing something for your gut health. And the other thing I would say, is that we're early in the probiotic space right now. And if you think it's confusing now, it is because most of the products out there are kind of the same strains,

but just in different packaging. And so it's confusing because it's a lot of marketing innovation and not a lot of product innovation. And I think we're going to get to a stage where we're as sophisticated or hopefully more sophisticated about probiotics than we even are about vitamins. Like you know that I take vitamin C for specific things and I take vitamin D for other specific things, right?

I'm trying to keep myself from getting sick or I'm trying to improve my bone health. But we don't think that about probiotics. People are like, oh, yeah, I take a probiotic. But I hope what we get to is like, oh, I'm taking this probiotic for my metabolism. I'm taking this probiotic for my stress. And we'll start to know the names of those probiotics.

And I think that's really the evolution of the field. So if you're interested in bolster your gut health, awesome. I think nutrition is one of the easiest ways to do that. And you might want to supplement with probiotics as well. But pick the probiotic for the thing you're trying to get done. Amazing. Well, tell everybody where they can find you and find more about the product and all of that. Yes, so please come check us out at pendulumlife.com.

We have a lot of information on our website that talks about the gut microbiome, different things you can do. We sell probiotics that are unique formulations that you either can't buy anywhere else or you can't find them. We were the first people to bring acromancy at a market. And I would say we're also looking for feedback. So if you have anything that you want to share out, great. And we also have a lot of information there about foods that you can eat that are important for your gut microbiome. Amazing. I'll give you feedback after I recons.

Please. My God. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thank you. I hope you enjoyed that episode. If you liked the episode and if you liked the show in general, please take a second to rate, review, and subscribe. It goes such a long way in supporting the show.

Follow the show over on Instagram at well.pod. You can also follow my personal Instagram at Ariel Lori. I'm always sharing great clips from the episodes. And we also have full episodes on YouTube as well if you want to watch in entirety. Thanks for listening. Hey guys, I'm Whitney Port and this is WithWit. A lot of you may know me from reality TV and the reality is a lot's happen since the Hills. WithWit is dedicated to having real. raw and occasionally ridiculous conversations with the people who have had a profound impact on me. Because on WithWit, very little is off limits. Subscribe so you don't miss any of the amazing conversations to come. New episodes of WithWit are available every Tuesday on all platforms. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to.

in this episode.