Well with Arielle Lorre - 475: Inflammation, Skin Aging & Brain Health: What Actually Makes a Difference

Episode Date: August 17, 2026

Are You Actually Inflamed? The Foods That Help Your Skin, Brain & MoodAngelo Keely is the co-founder and CEO of Kion, a health and performance company focused on helping people feel and perform their best through evidence-based nutrition. He joins me to break down one of the most talked-about—and often misunderstood—topics in wellness: inflammation, and how what we eat can impact everything from our skin and brain to mood and long-term health.We talk about what chronic low-grade inflammation actually is, how to know when inflammation is normal versus potentially problematic, and the lifestyle factors that can make a meaningful difference. Angelo explains why certain types of fats are so important, the foods we should be eating regularly to get enough of them, and how much fatty fish like sardines, anchovies and mackerel you’d realistically need to eat to reach optimal levels.We also get into how to test your omega-3 levels, the connection between omega-3s and skin health, mood and cognitive function, and what women should know during pregnancy. Plus, Angelo breaks down vegan sources, why EPA and DHA percentages matter, what to look for in a supplement, and why sourcing, purity and heavy-metal testing are so important.Visit getkion.com/well for 20% off and connect with Angelo in instagram @kionThis episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct, or indirect financial interest in products, or services referred to in this episode.Produced by Dear Media. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a dear media production. This is Well, a podcast about wellness in all its forms. I'm Ariel Lorry, and each week I'm sharing unfiltered conversations with the people shaping how we feel, live, and look. Come for the substance, stay for the honesty, and leave with the tools to be well, inside and out. Today's guest is a three-peat, meaning he's been on three times now, and I only have a small handful of those.

So when that happens, you know that it's somebody who I really enjoy talking to and who I think brings a lot of value. And that absolutely applies here. So I'm talking to Angelo Keely. One of the things I really respect about Angelo is his integrity in a space that can sometimes feel like everybody is trying to sell you something. I don't have to tell you guys. And even as the co-founder and CEO of Keon, he's a huge advocate for getting the foundational things right first. So, So your diet, your lifestyle, your movement, and getting as much as you can from food and, like I said, lifestyle before looking to supplements. So today we get into inflammation. We're talking what chronic low grade inflammation actually means and the role that our diet plays and everything from our skin and mood to brain health and healthy aging. And then we also really delve into omega-3s. We talk about how much we actually need, how to know if you were getting enough, the best

food sources and what really matters when it comes to quality and sourcing. I found this conversation to be really interesting. And as somebody who loves her omegas and has noticed so many benefits from taking them, I really think that this is so important because it is one of those areas where so many of us are deficient. So Kean does make great omegas as well as other products. You know that I love their amino acids and so much more. So if you want to try, Angelo gave us a 20% discount. So you can go to get ki-on.com slash well for 20% off your order. And with that, please enjoy Angela Keely. Welcome, Angelo. Hey, Ariel. Thanks for having me back. Thank you for being back. I always love talking to you. And your episodes always resonate so much with my audience. So

everyone that we've done so far, is this four? Three or four? I think this is three, but I'm not sure. Yeah. Yeah. But we've talked protein. We've talked aminos. Today we're going to be talking about omegas. So we're going to dive into all of that. But I want to know what makes you well. I think what makes me well is focusing on peace in my life. Like I think I used to seek a lot of just constant stimulation, like what's going to be the most fun, most novel, most intense. And as I've as I pivoted more and more towards like what actually like brings me peace, it helps me feel well. So that's walking. It's like not signing up for as many things as I to sign up for its simple things, water, family.

The basics. The basics, yeah. I mean, it's like a sign of the times, though, that we overlook those basics and we have to be reminded to come back to them. I feel like the pendulum is swinging right now. I don't know if you feel that way, but as we're moving into this like AI slop kind of era, like the new luxury is like being offline and doing the fundamentals and getting to do that versus this paper functioning.

stimulating technology kind of phase. I agree with that. Yeah. And I think it's natural for people and societies to be on some type of pendulum, right? You're like exploring more of the extremes and going back and forth. And yeah, definitely with technology developing, there's like an inclination to maybe check out more what makes us really human. And it's very simple things. Yeah. You know, bipedal creatures that walk around and people that need to drink water and quiet and like very simple things, analog things. Yeah. It's cool.

Yeah. I love analog. Yeah, me too. And I also like AI. Like I like it all, you know. But there is the risk of, it's interesting he said AI slop. Yeah. There is.

There's a lot of extra. There's a lot of excess. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. I want to do a rapid fire round before we get into all of the more end-up questions.

Let's do it. So if you had to choose one between amino, creatine, or Omega, which would you choose? For me or someone else? For you. Aminos is my primary. Amino is my primary, but I think Omega is really, like, totally makes sense. We'll get into why.

I'll make it a little easier for you. F. Mary Kill. Aminos, creatine, and omega. That's actually, that's actually better. I would say F. Aminos, Mary, Omega. and kill creatine. Interesting.

Yeah. But I really like creatine. I take creatine every day. So I'm not, I'm not creatine hater. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I feel like we've talked about that too on the last episode. EPA heavy or DHA heavy if you had to choose. Both.

That's really, I think they come together in fish. So those are like these two major omega-3 fatty acids. And you really want both of them. Just one is not the solution. And we will delve into that. If somebody lifts, but they don't get enough, protein. Is it a wasted effort or still worth it? Exercise is worth it and lifting is worth it. And you'll get a lot more benefit if you eat more protein combined with your exercise. Sorry if my sound bites aren't

provocative enough. No. You're doing amazing. Morning routine or evening routine, which one matters more? For me, morning, because it's like the anchor that then starts everything else for the rest of the day. If I don't get that right, then the rest of my day can kind of fall apart. But I can see a good argument for you go to sleep well and then you'll start the day well. Yeah, you could argue either one of them. I hear a lot of people now saying that a good night's sleep starts when you wake up because it's like you go out, you look at the sun, that helps to support your melatonin production and they're reducing cortisol and everything. But I feel like exactly to your point, a good night's sleep is the foundation that a good day is built upon. So it seems like what's the thing it's going

to work for you? Yeah. And all of these health things, adherence and consistency is the thing that matters more than the perfect formula. So it's like, if focusing on the morning is better for you, do that. If focusing on the evening for you is better, do that. Whatever the thing is actually going to happen. I think everyone's just got to figure out like what works for them and who they are. And the thing that connects with me is more fundamental stuff and, you know, just keeping it simple and real. Yeah. So speaking of fundamentals, what made you want to get into omegas? So I would actually just name like Keon's been making Omega's for years and it's really just about I think how much I've gotten out there and help educate people about it and why, you know,

why is a supplement they're important. But at its heart, the reason why an Omega 3 supplement is important and why I would spend any time coming on a podcast and trying to educate people about it is because of all the supplements studied, there's only a few that have been studied to this degree. And there are things like omega creatine amino. So it's a good, that was a very tough question you asked, right? And those people that have higher levels of omega-3 in their body consistently have an incredible decrease in all-cause mortality. We're talking like 15 percent, cancer, diabetes, heart disease, dementia. It's like insane.

How impactful this one nutrient can be. On top of that, it has pretty immediate vanity improvements. Like it really improves your skin, your hair. It improves, again, even your ability to exercise. So it's a pretty obvious supplement that is worth someone's time. So really that's it. It's like it's a supplement that's worth me taking every day and people I care about. And if I was going to go out and try to, you know, talk to people about it,

it's not at me. I wouldn't equate it with water or walking. But when you start talking about supplements, it's like at the basics. It's one of the most important things that's actually worth people's time. Yeah. Yeah. It's like assuming that everybody has the fundamentals down, then these are the additive things. And as far as I've been made aware, like, omegas are pretty universal, right?

Like pretty much beneficial for everybody. What can we get from our diet? And then at what point do we need to be supplementing that? So I'll try to keep this as simple as I can. We like scientific, too. Okay. And if I get, but if I get two out there, just reel me back then. So first, I'm going to explain, like, why you even want it and then where you get it from

and then what that would like equate to. So omega-3s, this thing, and their EPA and DHA are the two main ones. They're those fatty acid. It's literally just a type of fat. So you think about, like, people talk about saturated fats and, you know, mono-unaturated fats and polyunsaturated fats. You don't have to understand what all those are. but it's one of those. It's the polyunsaturated kind. And the fats that we eat, we use them for

energy, but they also go into actually making our cells. And the certain type of fatty acid, these omega-3s, are really awesome for your cells. And the greater proportion that they make up of your red blood cells, like normal people not really focusing on it are probably less than 4% of your red blood cells are made up of them. If you can get it up to like 8%, that's where you get these incredible benefits. Immediate benefits like your skin being more hydrated, your hair growing better, but long-term benefits like avoiding these diseases pretty significantly. And that's why you even want to think about it.

And the way that you would like get enough would be eating a lot of fatty fish if you're just doing it through food. So this isn't like eating more tuna or tilapia. You need to be eating sardines, sardines, anchovies, mackerel, salmon, but a lot. Like multiple servings per week. at kind of a base level. And if you really want to get like significant benefits, we're talking like 10 servings a week.

So if you love fatty fish that much, then go for it and like just eat, you know, eat sardines every single day. Most people, that's like kind of tough. That's not me. And so that's why something like an omega-3 supplement could make sense. Yeah, I've been trying to get into the sardines and the mackerel. I've been experimenting with different ones. And it's like fine, you know.

Yeah, it's fine. But not for not that volume. For me, it's not realistic at all. And even salmon. And I hear this from people all the time, you know, and I'm sure a lot of my audience can relate to this. There's only so much that you can eat salmon. Like I hear from everybody, oh, I'm not eating salmon now because I ate too much for the last six months. You know, like you get really burnt out on these things.

Totally. And I know that my audience is really health conscious. and really diet conscious, not as far as like caloric intake necessarily, but eating nutritious, whole foods and all of that. And, you know, I think people for the most part try to get what they can from their diet, but there comes a certain point where like it's just not, you're just not going to hit the marks that you want to be hitting. Yeah. And I think some things are perhaps easier to get like just there's a lot of vegetables that are available, right, that you could get lots of micronutrients from. For protein, there's a bunch of different protein sources.

when you get into, though, like, omega-3s as a unique nutrition element that you really need a lot of, there's only so many foods. And so that's when it gets really hard. It's like, you know, because even protein, I mean, like, I remember a time I, like, burned out my kids because they're like, we can't eat any more chicken breast, Papa. Like, I can't, you know. But it's like, okay, you can switch to steak or you can switch to fish or switch these things. Like, the omega-3s, there's not, it's really like a few fatty fish. And so you're just, it's unlikely that you're going to again sustainably take that. And yeah, unless you're like, people who do that are like the Japanese.

The Japanese is a ton of fatty fish. And guess what? They have way higher omega-3 levels and they have much longer life outcomes and they have less disease and it's like, that's part of the reason why. I feel like they do everything right. Well, they also live in a tiny little island. They have community. They're also eating a lot of carbs.

So that kind of debunks the whole. carbs are bad for you, meth, but you know, there's a lot of other variables. They're not eating processed pastries and breads sitting there. Yeah. Yeah, they do, they do a lot. I mean, it's a mix of things, right? They don't do everything perfectly, but yeah. Would you say that getting sufficient omega-3s, but that's like the most difficult nutrient to get into your diet and optimal amounts? I think from whole food, yeah, that's actually really, you know, I hadn't thought about it in that frame, but I would say it's the hardest, not one of the hardest to actually get in and to not try to supplement with. Let's talk about labs a little bit. We know you're not a doctor,

so everyone, disclaimer, but you're very proficient in all of this. What are the biomarkers that people should be looking at when it comes to omega-3? It's like I can speak to my own experience in my own labs. I can't remember which number, but I think it was my EPA and DHA ratio. Well, so there's a couple different main things I would I would discuss from talk about labs. So one is going to be inflammation markers. Those are the actual like outcomes that you'd be trying to get to go down from taking talking like CRP. Yes, CRP, exactly interleutin six. Like those things by taking omega-3s, there's pretty strong causal data that shows that those go down significantly. So that would be like an outcome. Like you get you get your CRP tested and see what the levels are. Then if you're not taking

omega-3s, start taking more omega-3s, and you ideally would see that go down considerably, and that was where a lot of these, that's going to be like the leading indicator of why suddenly your skin looks better and you end up not getting these, you know, lower chance of these diseases. To actually measure the omegas, though, you can go to just like a traditional doctor and you can get your omega-3s tested. The thing, though, is that they're going to test the, and it's getting a little nerdy, they're going to test the plasma levels. So that means, like, how much omega-3s are literally just floating around and you're, you're going to blood. So it's going to be more dependent on like how much fish you ate recently. That's actually

it corresponds to what's important, but it's not what's really important. Instead, you would want this thing called an omega quant index. And if you just like Google that, you can find it. Dr. Bill Campbell, who's like one of the gurus of this whole space and has done tons of these studies, he has the company that will measure that. And that one actually measures the omega three that makes up your red blood cells. So if you actually were to measure the red blood cell and see what percentage of its of its lipid layer of the wall that actually makes up the red blood cell is made up of omega-3s. That's the thing that actually matters.

That's the thing you're trying to double or triple get from only 4% to like 8% or 6%. 8% or 12%. Is 4% average? 4% is basically average like in the United States. I'm just sorry. I'm looking for my labs because I think I may have gotten one of those and I think my numbers were horrible. Like I came to the omega.

I guess that's why I'm just looking to pull this up because it might be interesting to have like a real life example. Well, I have an omega-3 index. Is it from, that's the only thing is it might be, can you tell if it's plasma or red blood cell? I don't know. And then I have fatty acids omega-3 and 6. And then there's like all these different total omega was good. My AA-E-A-E-PA, that ratio. Do you know what that is?

That's horrible for me. Horrible. Yeah. And so the only way, so that's, that's arachidonic acid to EPA, the only way you're going to get that up is by consuming more EPA. That's going to be like you really, you have to eat more fatty fish or take a supplement that is EPA and DHA to get that. Yeah. And I mean, this was last fall, I think that I did this. But I remember after this nutritionist who does a lot of functional testing, things like that, he recommended four times the recommended amount of Omega for me. He was like, you can, overdo it, but like not at these levels. And I actually felt really good. Yeah, he was like four grams or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would say that's not going, you're not going to overdo it. The only risk could be is if you went to like really, really high levels, because what happens when you take this omega three, like literally, here's actually a big idea of understanding it too when you

think about fats. Like a saturated fat, like an animal fat, that be butter, lard, you know, the fats on a steak. It, it congeals really easily. It gets kind of thick and stuck together. Like butter stays solid at room temperature even. Whereas like a mono-unsaturated fat, olive oil, it's liquid at room temperature. But if you put it in the fridge, it'll start to get kind of cloudy and it'll get solid. In omega-3 doesn't get solid until like negative 50 degrees. So basically, those types of fats would go into making up your blood cells.

So if you have fats that are rigid and hard and tough versus fats that are more fluid and flexible, then it changes everything. It makes your whole red blood cells much more flexible. And there's a whole other element we can get into around inflammation, but that's the big idea. And so once you start taking more of that, your red blood cells will get more flexible and thin. So it does make you bleed more easily, right?

Yeah, they always tell you to stop omega's before surgery. Yeah. So like that would be the only thing. If you're taking a lot of it, it makes your blood flow more easily. Is that why it improves your skin? that's part of why it improves your skin. I mean, a big piece of why it improves your skin is because, again, these, and it's almost, I don't know if it's counterintuitive, but in the same way that the omega-3s are going to make

the blood cells more flexible, they're also going to, because they're flexible, they almost think about them fitting into all the little gaps. They make the skin layer more containing of moisture. Yeah, so. We like that. So it's not going to be like a moisturizer where you put like a topical moisturizer on your skin and it directly is inputting moisture into it. What it is is going to avoid your skin from basically evaporating more quickly because the skin barrier is more solid and complete.

And thus, it's like the base. Honestly, I would think Omega's are like the base layer that anybody needs to use to make sure that moisturizers are actually worth it. Otherwise, you're just moisturizing this thing that's like leaky. Yeah, especially as we age. You know, women over 40 know this. that your ability to retain moisture just starts to deplete with age. So this is like, to your point, I mean, such a great hack. Yeah. And it's just the foundation, right? It's not going to replace your moisturizer, but it's going to actually make it work. Make everything more effective. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And

make everything more glowing. And then you mentioned inflammation. So what's like the mechanism of action there? Uh-huh. So the big science word is pro resolving mediators. Love it. Yeah. But here's the idea. And this is actually, I love this conversation because I think, you know, before I researched it a lot myself many years ago, I was a little skeptical about like big terms, like, you know, systemic low grade systemic inflammation. Yeah. And just like this, like is that really something that's going on?

You know, or it's one of those sexy Instagram internet things. Yeah. It's real though. It is a real thing. And so I think it's easiest just to explain what inflammation is. inflammation is not necessarily a bad thing. If you think about like you're running and you trip and you spray your ankle and it gets all swollen, the reason why it does that is because your body has a healthy immune response to send blood to that area, to give it a lot of attention, to activate

these things called cytokines, to like actually heal the area. That's why it's getting all swollen and getting all this attention. And that's why if you really want to heal more quickly, taking something like an ibuprofen is not always the best idea because it's literally just shutting down. the inflammation, whereas you want that inflammation to go through its healthy process of resolving the sprained ankle. Now if you're like in a lot of pain, you just got to get through it, like fine, take ibuprofen and you'll get through it. Now what happens though with our contemporary diets is similar to like spraining my ankle,

if I eat too much food every single day, I'm like spraining my whole digestive system. If I overconsume highly processed sugars that like really like, over- overstimulate my system in a way that kind of spraining my mechanisms for regulating blood sugar, alcohol, chemicals and the foods we eat, all these different types of things are basically overstimulating the body in a way that's similar to like twisting your ankle. And so what happens is we get this low grade systemic inflammation. It's like our whole body is a twisted ankle in a minor way. And that is not good because it means you're constantly in this fight or flight. And so that is what scientists believe kind of invites in and enables these longer term diseases to develop because your body's in this kind of more broken, overreactive immune response.

It's also the reason why if that's going on, your body's not going to be prioritizing making sure your hair looks really pretty or your skin looks really good, right? I was just thinking as you're talking, like, hair thinning. That's another complaint we can talk about. But that's a result of this. Yeah. And it's because these are luxury tissues. Yeah. Right. Your heart is like more necessary. Your kidneys, your liver, all these parts of your body are much more important to core survival than how nice my skin looks, right? And so they suffer first. Yeah. And there's that term inflammaging. Have you heard that? I haven't heard that. But yeah, but that's it's real. That's a new hot one. But it is true. You know, it's like premature aging and a lot of the complaints that mostly women, but men do have a lot of it is like downstream from these inflammatory things. We know about.

about like blood sugar and skin, like glycation, things like that. Yeah, it's real. Yeah. So go ahead. Sorry, I interrupted you. No, no. I mean, everything you're saying is totally on point. And yeah, I think women tend to uncover it and experience, I think, sometimes sooner.

But like being a guy now in my 40s, I'm like, oh, do I? You know, my receding hairline, like, suddenly is a bigger issue than I thought about before. And so I'm that much more cognizant of some of these. You have a good hairline. Oh, thanks. I'm like, looking. I mean, you called attention to it. No, it looks good.

So this inflammation that's going on, I kind of brought up the point of, you know, something like an ibuprofen that stops inflammation is not always the best thing. There is this other type of biochemical reaction that can occur. And a good maybe metaphor is if you think about like there's a pothole in the street and do, you know, like actually try to fix the pothole or you just try to cover it up and then the pothole is going to get uncovered again. And there's a way to actually. support and heal and actually make the inflammation resolve itself more quickly. And we don't know exactly why or how, but omega-3s produce these things called resolvins and protectans, these pro-resolving mediators that basically just speed up the healing process. They don't stop the inflammation. They actually make the inflammation resolve. That's why they're called resolving mediators more quickly than they could otherwise. So inflammation just kind of heals itself much more quickly. And that is why they have this incredible impact to be able to literally help you recover more quickly from exercise while at the same time improve your skin health.

It's a kind of weird thing. Like how could one nutrient do all of that? Well, it's because at its core, it's basically speeding up this healing process in a way that nothing else really does it like that. It's interesting because there's a lot of parallels to what people are using GLP ones for. How so? GLP ones are being used a lot, at least in people that I know and a lot of doctors that have come on the show, for inflammation. You know, inflammatory conditions, things like PCOS, but it's the same argument.

It's that pretty much every disease that you can think of, every cause of mortality besides like accidents and, you know, things like that, are a result of inflammation in the body. So there are very specific uses for GLP ones that are not just. for diabetes, I'm trying to remember. Yeah, I mean, it is true. Like, they've seen it lower CRP. Yeah. Like, even low dose. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I know so many people who have been put on a microdose for reducing inflammation. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. You go on it and even independent of the weight loss, they've shown that it has this positive impact on. Yeah.

You articulated it better than I need more matcha. But it's interesting because there is, you know, it's pretty much the same argument. And it's a similar mechanism. It's not the exact same thing. like GLP1 is a or GLP is a peptide that your body makes, but it's kind of like, well, if someone's dealing with some of these issues, if they feel like their skin is not retaining water or it just looks dull and dehydrated, their hair is thinning, they feel like their joints are hurting. Like, I had really bad joint pain as a result of my immune thing. And Omega's helped so much,

like, so, so much. If somebody is thinking about maybe going on a GLP1, it's like, maybe we're thinking about doing this first because it's like such low-hanging fruit and it's one of those foundational things that doesn't really have any side effects. There are really no known negative side effects to Omega, even like the higher doses that you're, you know, doctor recommended. And yeah, absolutely, it makes sense to consider potentially first. You know, I think to GLP-1s, you know, they've been studied for a long time actually. I don't know the study has been 10 years going and they seem pretty low risk. And it still is a drug intervention versus is a nutrient intervention, you know, coming from food. And this omega research goes back like

30, 40 years. So it's even, you have even more data over a longer period of time that's proven that this thing is very safe for taking every single day for the rest of your life. Yeah. Yeah. I was actually curious as you were talking if you knew the history of omegas, like how they came to be, who discovered that these were actually beneficial to your body? Like, do you know the story behind that? I know some of the initial story. So actually the gentleman I brought up earlier, Dr. Bill Harris, I know he did an original study. I think it was like in 1980, 1981.

And they basically were just trying to understand whether it actually kind of came out more of these studies of trying to understand saturated fats versus polyunsaturated and mono unsaturated fats and like what would improve heart disease outcomes. And so they gave people, these groups had to drink 25 grams of salmon oil. It was like pretty gross, like huge amounts of the salmon oil. And they saw these crazy outcomes, these crazy improvements. And so they didn't know yet that it was going to be the omega-3s. But that was the first thing that was like, there's something in the fish oil.

Like we don't know what it is yet, but there's something in this fish oil that is having these incredible benefits on cardiovascular health. and, you know, in addition to, I think now it's more clear that like inflammation is the, kind of the, one of the key mechanisms, like anti-inflammatory properties. But the original things that were first observed, and that still are very true, is that when you make the blood cells more flexible, right, they move more easily through the body, right? And so you reduce the risk of stroke and heart disease and all these types of things versus

if you had like really thick, clunky blood cells, right? So yeah, that's how it started actually. Interesting. It's 25 grams of salmon oil. And then I think they just kept getting funded for more and more research. So it really took off in the 80s. So again, it's even as a, you know, like a commercialized supplement, it's been around a long time.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm thinking about like a lot of thoughts knocking around my head right now about like what makes a good omega supplement because there's been a lot of scrutiny on fish in particular, farmed fish, you know, diseases. parasites, things like that. And then as you're talking about like drinking salmon oil or eating sardines or mackerel, like I'm thinking, where are they deriving the omega from? And what should somebody look for? Because I would imagine that there's some not so great sources. And then there

are really optimal sources, you know, brands that don't really care and brands that do actually care. You fall into the ladder, of course. But if somebody is like going to try one for the first time, what should they be looking for and what goes into making that? First, I'll just say that omega-3s are a supplement category where quality matters exceptionally more than some other categories. Like I would just say vitamin C or zinc. It's going to matter less, quite honestly. Like omega's in protein.

Yeah, it really matters. So, I mean, I can kind of just trace you through like the supply chain. Like how does it actually end up? Yeah, I'm so curious. does it end up in a little capsule for you? So, like, where we source from and why is off the, off the shores of Peru. And the reason for that is because you can get the smaller, basically you're sourcing from smaller fish, like anchovies.

They're lower in the food chain, and thus they've consumed less of other animals, unless they're much lower in heavy metals. The higher up the food chain you get, the more heavy metals you're going to get from fish. And if you're going to concentrate the oil from them, you don't want to have a hyper-concentrary. heavy metal thing that you're consuming. Yeah. So basically fishing like anchovies off the coast of Peru.

And another reason for that too is that there's much more sustainable fishing practices there than in some other places in the world. And the way that basically currents work, there's less pollution that gets in those waters than there are in some other places. So sourcing from that region is really crucial if you want to have the highest quality lowest contaminant base, just like fish that you're working with. And then after that, you're processing that oil to get the EPA and the DHA. When you just get oil from a fish, it's not only the EPA and DHA, it's some other things as well.

And it's mixed, but what you really want are the EPA and DHA. So in that processing and filtration process, you can work with different types of partners that are higher or lower quality. So for example, with us, we do it like pharmaceutical grade. And a lot of people don't actually realize that. but this research was so powerful on fish oil, you know, 30 years ago that drug companies actually created a, quote, drug quality fish oil. It is just, it's EPA, DHA, right? In a higher dose, it's like four grams, but they sell it actually as a drug. It's not, but it's just like the fish oil that we make, right? But you can get your fish oil made in facilities of that quality. So working

with a partner that does that is really important. You're basically hitting way higher standards of quality. And I would just say, like, if you're looking at a really, you know, cheap fish oil at online or in the, you know, not convenience store, but like local pharmacy, like, they're obviously not doing that, right? There's no way that the margins wouldn't support it. And then it's kind of like, what is the actual proportion of the EPA and DHA that you're getting? And again, I would advocate for, you really want both and you want them pretty even and close because that's actually how they show up in fish and all the studies have shown that it's really both of them working together. I mean, there are people, businesses and marketers

that have tried to develop some super custom formulation where they only do one, but the data overwhelmingly is like, you really want both. And then it's like, what's the format of it? And I know we're stacking all the things, but you can get an ethylester or you can get a triglyceride form. Triglisceride is actually how these fatty acids show up in fish and how we're stacking. how our body more easily digest them. Ethel ester is this technique that is cheaper and easier to do, but it's not as natural for our body to digest. And so it's 70% less bioavailable. So it's really like, even if you got two fish oils and one was triglylyclyclyde and one was ethylester and they had the same amount of the PADHA, that triglyceride form is going to be significantly better. And then I think

the last thing that this is like harder to tell and you know, you'd have to like work harder to actually see this, but the purity in concentration. So if I get a fish, you know, a bottle of fish oil and I look at the back, it might say one gram of, you know, fish oil. Underneath that, you're going to see actually how many milligrams of EPA and how many milligrams of DPA are in it. DHA, sorry. And the addition of those two, like however many total milligrams there are, divided by however total amount of fish oil is, is the percentage. Like, that's actually how pure it is. So, for example, with Keon, on label, we're about 80%. About 80% of the fish oil is this EPA DHA.

We're actually higher that. Like our C-of-A's are like 85%. You just claim less to make sure you know, you're always hitting the bar. But even really good brands, brands that like I used to respect and think are good, they're only 70%. So an extra 10% of the fish oil that you're consuming is not even the EPA and DHA. It's like other stuff. And a much cheaper brand.

And you would be shocked, like brands that are not, you know, it's not like the highest premium brand, but a brand you would still think would be pretty good. We're talking 30 to 60 percent is EPA DHA. So they're telling you, they're giving you fish oil, which is what you think you need. But the actual high quality active ingredient in it makes up a small fraction of what the total thing is that you're taking. And all that other stuff is much lower quality oils. You could be dealing with like rancidity and oxidation. And it's just like, it's definitely not what you want to be taking every single day for years on. Yeah. That's what I'm thinking about as you're talking. That's what I think is so disheartening for the layperson because

a lot of people don't know exactly what to look for. And if they're going out and they're spending their hard-earned money and they're taking something every single day for their health and they're getting some shitty product, you know, it's like, it's, I don't know, it's frustrating. It's a bummer. It's also a double-edged sword of, I think, the reason why, one reason why that's happening is because Omega-3s have been validated through science to be so good for you, you have a lot of people that, a lot of businesses that want to make it. Because, oh, there's some category awareness. Like, even if your listeners maybe haven't taken it yet, they've, like, heard about it. Maybe their parents took it. You know, it's like, you generally kind of aware of it.

And so business people are like, oh, that's a good product. Let's just make one, right? But they're not actually thinking what's good for people. And so it's great that more people maybe know about it as something that could be good for them, but it also introduces a lot of opportunity for like just less than super integrity-based actors to try to make a lot. Very diplomatic. Yeah. What do vegans do? So there are options for getting your omega-3s from algae-only sources. Yeah. So there are like algae-based omega supplements. They're harder because you have to use way more algae to get it. Like, they're just not as, like, algae itself is not as dense in the fat. And the final product tends to be a lower percentage of total EPA and DHA to, like, what

the oil is that you're consuming. And they tend to be a lot more expensive, just because they're a lot harder to make. But there are options to get those. I know. I was just thinking, like, are they super deficient in Omega. They are super deficient. Because if they're not eating fish, they're not getting anything from their diet. Unless you're eating a ton of algae, like if they're just, like crazy on, I don't, yeah, I don't know, some type of, kelp and like, some type of like seaweed salads, like, but you'd be eating a lot. You know, it's the same idea of like trying to get your protein requirements met from, although even more challenging than I think this, but like trying to get your protein requirements just from plants. It's not that it's impossible. It's just hard because

there's, there's a lot less protein in the queen wa per food quantity, per calorie than there is in the piece of fish. Yeah. Like the fish, it's mostly made of protein. Yeah. Yeah. This is a total aside.

I'm working on a skincare line. And one of my products is very like ocean derived tea. I wanted alges and things like that. And when I got the ingredient list from my formulator, it said big kelp. And I was like, wait, is there a big kelp industry that I didn't know about? I was like, what is this? Big kelp, like big food or big pharma? Yeah.

It said big kelp. And I'm like, maybe this is like an. actual ingredient, but I was, I was reading it like big food and big pharma. And I was like, wait, bank Calvin is dying. So funny. Are there any other applications? Like, so far from this conversation, it sounds like it's universally beneficial, like we were talking about in the beginning for inflammation, for hair, skin, beauty purposes. What are the telltale signs that somebody might be deficient in this besides what we were talking about before? like maybe joint pain, dry skin, thinning hair.

I think you named a lot of them. Again, like all of these, what I would name, I said earlier, like luxury tissues, right? Like being able to like not have like low grade pains in your body, your skin to look really good, your hair. Like when any of you notice any kind of like just like small suffering in a way, you know, like small defect, it's likely either could very easily be caused by kind of the. low-grade inflammation, which again could be resolved through omegas. Another thing is that could be resolved through, which we've talked about many times before, is essential amino acids and protein. Like, that's because you're basically all these tissues are being built by proteins, by these amino acids, and then, yeah, and then like all the cell walls are being created by the

omegas. So I'm trying to think if there's anything else. Mood, you know, it's actually very common for psychiatrists to utilize omega-3s as a primary supplement to consider before or in pairing with different type of applications for helping people with mood and mental health issues. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah.

And so, you know, like this kind of mind blowing is that, so I've been using these much smaller numbers, right? Like 4% of your red blood cells is made up of these omega-3s. In your brain, like 30% is made up of DHA of the fat. Like it's an enormous portion of that. So it has a lot to do with brain function and brain development. And that's why. And if you haven't noticed before, now you'll maybe start to see like anything that's targeting pregnant women or nursing mothers or kids. Like they'll say like enhanced with DHA.

And it first seems kind of weird like they're putting fish oil in the milk or something. Well, it doesn't taste. Like it doesn't taste it when you extract it like that. But it has a huge impact on brain development. DHA does. And then surprisingly, EPA actually is the one that has a larger impact on treating depression. And they have very specific studies and actually treat. treating depression with EPA.

They give them both EPA and DHA, but it seems pretty clear that like the mechanism of action for some reason is the EPA. And actually, again, it appears to be like reducing inflammation that's related to these brain activities. And it's able to cross the blood brain barrier? Well, it actually makes up the blood. Okay. Right?

Oh, yeah, yeah. It's literally like the blood. It's kind of hard to imagine. But literally your like little drop of blood is made up all these little cells, right? And literally that blood cell is, the outer layer is made up of these fats, of this lipid. And so it makes it up. Yeah. So it's going everywhere.

It's touching everything. Yeah. Which then it's like, oh, now I get why and how it could have impact on everything. Like it kind of demystifies how it could be almost like so good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I feel like it's, I mean, the theme of this, it's like a foundational thing. I feel like omega, usually a vitamin D is. beneficial for most people. The things that I've noticed the biggest impact from were actually those two and magnesium, especially because of, you know, I think that most of my ailments, I'm a lemon, come from inflammatory conditions. And I feel like those together, like vitamin D is also very good for inflammation. And again, trying to get that in your diet or balance just the right amount of sun, like, or if you're just a lower, a lower synthesizer or, you know, processor of vitamin D from the sun, et cetera. It's hard to do unless you just take a little supplement. And it's an easy thing

to take. So why not? Why I feel so good in the summer? Because I'm traveling for six weeks. I'm eating fish all day and in the sun all day. I mean, you're typically in the Mediterranean, right? Yeah. I'm always happy in the Mediterranean. Same. But I do notice, I remember I got blood work done in the summer when I got back from Europe. And my doctor was like, whoa, your vitamin D levels are amazing. Whatever you're doing, keep it up. And I'm like, I can't. I can't keep it up. But it was really good for those two months or whatever. So. Yeah. Yeah. It's weird when I go, because I love that region of the world too. It's like I'm not even really thinking about trying to be healthy, but I am just, I'm eating lots of fish. I'm eating lots of bread. But it's like I always come back lighter,

leaner, like happier. You know, I was drinking like a lot of wine. I don't. Oh my God. I know. But I'm like so happy. For me, it's like Coke zero, like which I would never, I never drink it here. I actually had to like wean myself off when I got back from my trip, but it doesn't taste the same. It's different when you're on a beach in San Trope. Totally. With your bread basket and French fries and like salad and as swas. I mean, ugh. And yeah, thriving. And then I come back here and I'm like, can't do anything. Well, thank you so much. This is so fun, as always. Tell everybody where they can find Kian and find you. Yeah, I mean, we're on all the regular platforms. We're on Instagram and you can visit our website. I think there's a special link always for your audience. Yeah. And we'll put it in show notes as well.

Yeah. And then if you ever want to learn more about this stuff, we literally have like a phone team at Kian and you can just call and ask questions and talk. That's amazing. In the office. People will be like, can they talk to you? No, I'm normally pretty busy, but it's funny. One of our CS reps, Cole the other day, was like, someone was like, are you guys really in the office? He's like, I'm looking at Angela right now. So somebody's got a call and ask to talk to you specifically to verify that. Okay, yeah. All right. Thank you. Thanks, Ariel. I hope you enjoyed that episode. If you liked the episode, and if you like the show in general, please take a second to rate, review, and subscribe. It goes such a long way.

in supporting the show. Follow the show over on Instagram at well.pod. You can also follow my personal Instagram at Ariel Lurie. I'm always sharing great clips from the episodes. And we also have full episodes on YouTube as well if you want to watch in entirety. Thanks for listening. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.