Well with Arielle Lorre - 481: Always Have Access to Cash! & Other Life Lessons From Celebrity Divorce Attorney Jackie Combs

Episode Date: September 14, 2026

Jackie Combs is a leading family law attorney who represents high-net-worth individuals, celebrities and professional athletes in complex divorce, custody and prenuptial matters.In this episode, Jackie joins me to talk about the intersection of money, relationships and power—and what she’s learned from seeing marriages unravel when the stakes are incredibly high. We get into what wealthy couples actually fight about, the most expensive relationship mistakes people make, financial infidelity and the surprising ways it shows up, and how to have honest conversations about money with your partner. We also break down prenups: the biggest myths, where negotiations go wrong, and what people should understand before signing one. Plus, Jackie explains why every woman should have access to her own cash, how to protect yourself financially if you’re not married, when “separate” accounts may not actually be separate, the rise of gray divorce, and the one thing everyone should know before getting married.You can find Jackie at @love.richer on InstagramThanks to my sponsors:Visit sephora.com or your local Sephora store to shop Dae’s Cactus Fruit 3-in-1 Styling Cream.Head to justaddbuoy.com/well and use code WELL to get 31% off the Liquid Electrolyte Discovery set.Visit parollive.com/WELL and use code WELL at checkout for 20% off your first purchase.Head to dose daily.co/WELL to get 35% off your first subscriptionGet $25 off your first purchase when you go to therealreal.com/well.This episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct, or indirect financial interest in products, or services referred to in this episode.Produced by Dear Media. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a dear media production. This is Well, a podcast about wellness in all its forms. I'm Ariel Lori, and each week I'm sharing unfiltered conversations with people shaping how we feel, live, and look. Come for the substance, stay for the honesty, and leave with the tools to be well, inside and out. I have always said that financial wellness is such a huge part of overall wellness, but an area that I've never really focused on is financial well.

wellness within a relationship, but it is so important because you can do all the therapy and self-care in the world. But if you don't understand your own financial situation or what is happening financially in your relationship, that can have a very real impact on your life. So I'm so excited for this episode today. My guest is attorney Jackie Combs. She has worked with celebrities, professional athletes, and high net worth clients. So she has seen what happens when you combine relationships, marriage, power, and sometimes a lot of money. And I don't want you to go into this thinking that this is going to be a heavy or stressful episode. It's actually so fun and fascinating. And I really think that this conversation is so interesting because it's not just

about divorce or getting a pre-up. We talk about what the wealthiest couples actually fight about. We talk financial infidelity and how to spot it. The biggest and most expensive relationship mistakes that she sees, the craziest things that people have asked for in pre-nups, and we talk about why every woman needs access to her own money, regardless of how great her relationship is. We also talk what you can do to protect yourself if you're not married and the things that she wishes everyone understood before getting married. So this is one of those episodes where I think you're going to hear at least five things and immediately think, wait a second, I had no idea. So please enjoy Jackie Combs.

Welcome. Hi. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you so much for being here. This is a very exciting topic for me. I feel like this is not really something that I've tackled, at least with an expert on the show. I've only ever shared my own personal experience with marital finances, put it that way, and pre-nup and divorce and all of that.

But I think that it's so important. And I always say, like, financial wellness is, such a massive part of wellness and it's such an important part of relationships too. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, you can't have a successful relationship without being able to discuss these uncomfortable and once taboo conversations. Yeah. And I love that you talk about that it's not taboo. Not at all. Not at all. Yeah. Where does that come from? I mean, prior generations, for prior generations, obviously talking about money was taboo. But there's been a huge shift specifically, I think in the last 10 years and with younger generations having these more open conversations and being

more pragmatic about money and relationships and marriage. Yeah, and we're going to get into all of that. But first, I want to start with a round of finish the sentence, which is my new favorite game. The most expensive mistake people make before getting married is not consulting with a divorce attorney or a matrimonial attorney prior to getting married. The richest people fight the hardest over. Doesn't matter. They're fighting. They're fighting over principle. Yeah, true. The biggest financial red flag while dating is financial infidelities or unwillingness to discuss money. Okay. We're going to bookmark both of those. A pre-up is not taboo is not the end and it is not planning for divorce. Yeah, I was going to say it's not unromantic. Oh, I like that one too. I see that everywhere. People are like, it's so

unromantic. It's like, well, kind of, I mean, yeah, like nothing in legal writing is romance, exactly, but it doesn't have to be this, like, icky thing that people have made it out to be. No. And I think, I always think of it as it is establishing or helping you create a financial, you know, blueprint for your marriage. And it really brings couples closer together because you have clear expectations, you know, of what your roles and responsibilities are in a relationship and have these deep conversations, whether you want to have children, if somebody's going to stay at home or not. And, you know, it can really bring you closer. I'm going to circle back on that one, too. Because I want to know, like, the craziest things that you've seen pre-nups. The first sign that

somebody is hiding money is. They will not show you their bank accounts or their credit card statements or they're just hiding purchases without telling you. The craziest asset I've ever seen someone try to hide was, if you can say. Oh. I mean, people try to hide a lot of things. Yeah. It just changes by the day. Like in disclosures, you mean? Oh, yeah. I mean, many times. And that's part of, you know, pre-naps or in divorce, you have to do full financial disclosures. Yeah. And listen, as lawyers and you have forensic accountants, we can all find without the information other ways. So it's really bad if you just don't want to disclose it. If you don't disclose fully prior to the pre-nup, does that make it null and void or no? It can, it can definitely, depending on

level of lack of disclosure or in disclosure can result in challenges to the validity of the pre-up. Financial infidelity starts with not talking about money, kid in purchases, not respecting boundaries. I mean, there's so many layers, so many. The biggest misconception about divorce is that it's shameful. I mean, listen, divorce and obviously for prior generations was a, was more shameful, right? But we have definitely desigmented. ties the shame around divorce. Not every relationship is made to last, but it is a beautiful new chapter of what's on the other side. Do you know what the current stats are? Oh, they change every day, but they're like in the 40s or 50s, I think in the U.S. Yeah. Yeah, I think maybe I did see James,

what's his last name? Sexton. Sexton. I think I saw him talking about that and he was like, the numbers of like divorces that go all the way through with it is in the 50s or whatever. But like, the number of quote-unquote failed marriages is much higher because sometimes people just don't ever get divorced and they're in like miserable relationships. Yeah. They just don't ever go through with a divorce for whatever reason. They don't want to divide assets, things like that, right? Right.

Almost every client tells me. Ooh. I mean, they're deepest, darkest secrets, right? You must have so much tea. Yeah, yeah. I like to say I'm in all of my clients' bank accounts and bedrooms. So I know the more intimate details of their life than sometimes even their therapists. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Totally. I mean, I think back to my attorney when I was getting divorced, I miss her. Is that weird? No. I loved her so much. Terry Roth's shout out.

Do you know her? Oh, I love Terry. She's fabulous. The best. She's great. She is a great, great attorney. Yeah. I have a lot of respect for her.

I do too. She was like, I love her. Anyway. Yeah. Shout out Terry. Yeah. Shout out Terry. If women understand one thing about money,

before marriage it would be? Marriage is a transactional relationship. And just because you own something prior to marriage or during marriage doesn't mean it's yours or yours together. You know, there are a lot of different nuances with the law and that's why one of the most expensive mistakes you can make is at least not making an informed financial decision by consulting with an attorney. Okay, so you represent celebrities, athletes, founders, you name it. What has working with those kinds of people taught you about marriage that most people don't realize. I think the conversation is still the same. It doesn't matter if you're fighting over 20,000, 200,000, 2 million, 200 million. The conversation is the same. So, you know, I think a couple other things on that is just because they have more money or that

they're rich and famous or whatever it is doesn't mean that they're not humans, right? And we all have our money stories and conversations and feelings of how we come into the relationship. Yeah, and I think that that's a good misconception to kind of debunk because, you know, I think the narrative or the conversation when somebody either famous or wealthy or whatever gets divorced, people are like, oh, who cares? You know, they have so much money. It doesn't matter anyway. And people still have feelings, like regardless. Right. And it doesn't, I can say that amount of money doesn't make you happier. No, it does not. Right. It does not at all. Yeah. What is something that you have seen over and over again that would genuinely shock people in your career?

I think the lack of communication and relationships, I mean, I think, and I'm a firm believer in love, okay, so I will tell you, even if I'm a divorce attorney, I am married, I'm happily married, it come from a long lineage of marriages. I recognize that marriage doesn't work out for everybody. But I think if you are able to communicate about the little things,

then you'll be able to communicate about the harder things. And if you don't communicate in your relationship, then it is going to be, will fail. Or you'll be in a miserable one, right? like you mentioned. Yeah, and you advocate for communicating and communicating about finances early on, right? Absolutely. We're not talking first date, right? No. No, not first date. But before you're getting serious with somebody, you should absolutely know what their financial values are. How would you broach that conversation? Because it is so uncomfortable for people, I think. So uncomfortable.

I mean, I don't think you should ask what their 401k balance is, right? Definitely unromantic. Definitely going to get the ick. It's funny because I have a girlfriend where, like, third date, she's like, well, tell me about your debt. Oh my God. I love this. Yeah. How has that worked out for her? I mean, well, she's single right now. But she's forward. But she just is at the point. She's like, I know what I want. I know what I don't want. I'm not really like wasting my time. And she has dated, she's asked that question too for long periods of time. So it hasn't been a deal breaker. Okay. Okay. I love that. I wouldn't necessarily phrase it that way. Yeah. But I might suggest phrasing it like, what's a huge financial surprise that you've had to deal with and how did you

overcome it or how did you handle money when you first started making it or, you know, if you won the lotto today or had unlimited funds, what would you do with your time or what would you do with the money? And to see what the responses are from your partner or your potential suitor, if they're going to take care of their family or if they're going to pay off their debt, the answers will reveal a lot of the questions that you have without it being such an invasive. Tell me how much debt you currently have and what your student loans are. Yeah. What's your credit card balance? moment. I feel like we all have unique psychology when it comes to money, right? And it's

informed by so many different things. Right. And I feel like that can tell you a lot about somebody as well. Are you familiar with Rameit Sati? Yes, yes. Do you know him? I don't know him personally, but I love his content and follow him. I've talked about how he like changed my life because he came on my podcast maybe two years before I got divorced. And I talked about this in a solo episode recently. I took all the money that I had and I invested it in a really smart way. It changed the game for me. But he was the first person who really talked to me about that psychology of money and how for some people it's very restrictive or constricting, you know, and then other people are a lot more free. And I think that that's something that you need to know about your partner.

And I'll just disclose here. Like when I was with my ex, yeah, he was like extraordinarily wealthy. He had the mindset of a very poor person. Yeah. The scarcity mindset. I think that so many individuals have, and especially with women, there's this financial shame that we can't talk about money, that it's taboo to talk about money. And of course, obviously, the stigma is going away. I think there's a huge movement with it. But how you carry that mindset into a relationship will impact what you do in your relationship. And the same with your partner. You may not be able to communicate about things. So for example, if you're raised thinking, you know, I shouldn't talk about money. And your partner,

asks you about it and you get defensive. It's not because you're intentionally being defensive. It's because you are raised that you don't talk about these things. And so that disconnect can then later erode into resentment in your relationship or create friction in other ways. So yeah, I think it's really important to understand how somebody, you know, values money, what the, how they handled money in their own families, because that will translate in your relationship. Yeah, and it will absolutely show up every day. So many. Yeah. I mean, what house you can afford, what kind of car you drive, if you lease or you buy, if you take on debt. Like, these are really, you know, big issues. And it's really important to understand why you're making

those decisions. Do you recommend that people go to therapy for this? Oh, totally. I mean, but that's the same thing of like, you know, meet with a divorce attorney. Yeah. And have these open conversations. And, of course, you know, therapy, I am firm believer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. At what point would somebody meet with an attorney? Like when they're engaged, when they're thinking about getting? Thinking about it before they get engaged. Really? Yeah. Okay.

Say more about that. Yeah. So I think especially if you're going to get a pre-up, you should have the conversation before you have the proposal. You want to see how your potential fiancé is going to respond. And I reiterate, pre-nips are a great thing. They can provide you so much more than what the law provides. Like get out of your mindset that this is taboo or unromantic or planning for the end.

It's not. How do people navigate differences when it comes to the pre-up, though? How do you help clients through that? Because oftentimes, especially if there's a big wealth disparity, it's kind of like the person with the more power or wealth or whatever. It's like, this is what it is. If you want to get married, this is what it is. And there's not a lot of room for negotiation. Have you encountered that a lot? I think there's always room for negotiation. I'm a firm believer, always advocate for yourself. and, you know, it's also important to note that pre-ups can evolve over time. You can enter into a post-nuptial agreement if your pre-up is, and I'm going to use the phrase stale, but if your life circumstances change. When you are in that situation and you are marrying somebody who has, let's say, extraordinary wealth, it's important to know that, you know, most of it's obviously their separate property and you can create in the pre-nep opportunities and we're in community property state, California, for there to be more community where there wouldn't otherwise be. At the end of the day, we want you guys to be, at least my perspective is, I want my clients to go into marriage happy. I mean, this is who you're potentially spending the rest of your life with,

having children with, sleeping in the same bed with. I want you to get married. I don't want you to hate me or your partner at the end of this. So, you know, obviously I have to have tough conversations and explain to my clients when they might get in a pre-nip that's oppressive or that basically undermines kind of the life that they're building. So using an example, everything is separate and a waiver of support, but you plan for your partner to be a stay-at-home mom. Like, that's not equitable. So it should be equitable. But at what point does it seem like it's incentivizing divorce?

That makes sense. Oh, yeah, a preempt should not incentivize divorce. Like, if it's too fair, like, I would imagine that if you're the wealthy person and they're like getting all of it, you'd be like, well, then I'm just setting the stage free to be able to walk away from this. Yeah, no, it can't be, it's against public policy to be promotive of divorce. Yeah. So pre-tip cannot set it up where it's like, I'm giving you X dollars upon, you know, let's say within a week of our marriage and then immediately thereafter you can get divorced. But I know that like an annual gift.

Like I've shared this. I probably am not allowed to say any of this, but whatever. Like there was an annual cash gift worked into our pre-up. And I feel like some people could look at that and be like, well, the longer you stay married and then you can just get out of there after. X amount of years, you know. Right. But that's different than a huge lump sum of all of that. True. Within the first week. And of course, everything is relative to your financial circumstances and also the kinds of things that you might be giving up in that. Obviously without going into the details of yours, but if you're agreeing for projects or certain income during the marriage to be

separate property instead of community. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. What are some of the strangest clauses that you've seen worked into? pre-naps, if you can say. Yeah. I mean, listen, a lot of people want infidelity clauses. They are unenforceable. Really? Yes.

In California, they're unenforceable. They're against public policy. We're no-fault state. So it doesn't matter why you get divorced. You know, it is what it is. But that being said, what I'm seeing more and more now are, let's say, confidentiality agreements and pre-nips, which used to be really for a lot of, obviously, extraordinarily wealthy individuals or, you know, celebrities.

But with many content creators now or social media being as big, people want to limit what is put out there publicly. And then you see more and more like embryo disposition agreements and things like that. What's that? So if you have embryos together, what happens if you break up? Oh, yeah. And what most or a lot of individuals don't realize is when they go and get those embryos, or they have embryos made, I should say, they have this like, you know, box, check the box kind of agreement that is going to determine, okay, what happens? Well, if you say, well, if we break up, you can have the embryos, that could lead to child support down the road.

That's crazy. Yeah. Didn't that just happen to a celebrity, too? Somebody had embryos and they were fighting with. Yeah, I think it was Sophia Verlis. Yes. Sophia Vergara. Or Vergara. Excuse me. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I feel like the conversation around preempts is becoming a lot more common. Do you just recommend that everybody get one no matter what their financial situation is? No, I don't. And I'm like different. I think it's a smart idea, but I don't think a pre-up is beneficial for every individual. But I think you have to make an informed decision whether or not you should have one or forego one. Are there things that you wish more people would include in the pre-ups? I'm a firm believer being generous with your partner. I think that's really important because again, you're building a life together. It's a very different than let's say the conversation that I'm having with somebody who's 25. or 30 versus somebody who is, you know, 65 or 55 who's on their second marriage and have adult children. And I think in those kinds of prenupt, you know, it's really important that they take care of their family before as well. I want to talk about the enforceability of them.

I'm trying to think of like a high profile. I know that you can't comment on anyone that you've worked with. The David Geffen thing. I don't know if you can comment or not. But he was married to somebody for like a year or two. Right. They did not have a pre-knit. Correct. And I think that people assumed that the guy was going to walk away with half, that's not how it works, right? That is not how it works. And I didn't represent either of them. I know both of the attorneys who did. And I believe they have now settled based on the news. And then he was back on his yacht. Yes. Yeah. Maybe they're back together. Who knows? With respect to situation like that, for somebody, again, who comes into the marriage with significant separate property. And many times their assets are already. during the marriage, it's going to be their separate property because they're, you know, they're not working or their assets already put into irrevocable trust or different trust outside of their state. And they're living off of, let's say, trust income or, again, they're living off their separate property state. So there's no community. Yeah. Interesting. That's where a pre-up might have been beneficial, you know, to resolve that. But it seems like they've, you know, resolved things. I'm sure that they worked it out. So would that mean then that if somebody was in that scenario and they were still making money, if they had everything in a trust, They were making money. They were only married for a couple years, that that would then be community property

if there was no pre-up or not really? Not necessarily. So in California, community property is your income. It's presumed income acquired during marriage as community, but unless it derives from a separate property source. Your work efforts. So all the money you get from, you know, going to your W-2, right, or going to wherever you work, all that income is going to be community property absent a pre-up.

your separate property is your income acquired prior to marriage, the income derived from the assets that you have prior to marriage, anything that you receive by way of gift or inheritance during your marriage, which is a good reminder to keep those gifts separate from your parents or other family members and basically anything that you acquire with your separate property. Okay. And then final pre-up question. What would make a pre-up that was signed not enforceable? So it's not in fidelity. It's not lack of disclosures. Yeah. Okay. So if somebody like fraud induced you to sign an agreement and fail to include disclosures, that can be a basis to invalidate the prenuptial agreement. And how often does that actually happen? I think it's when you have

really poorly drafted agreements or when individuals draft an agreement without attorneys and they don't know all the laws that they have to actually comply with or they use, let's say, an app or an online tool. Chat, GPT. Yeah, I'm totally, don't recommend that. Are you seeing that? Yes. People come in like this is. Yes. This is what the law says. I'm like, well, no, it's not really applying the law correctly. I would not rely on that.

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again, that's par olive.com slash well, code well. Okay, I want to talk a little bit about how attitudes around money are changing because we were talking about this off mic a little bit, right? So like, I don't know, I guess I'm a millennial, but Gen Z is, what's happening with Gen Z? Yeah, Gen Z is doing everything different, right? Okay. Charlotte's Gen Z.

Come on it. Yeah, get on the mic. Gen Z, so there's a lot of research about how Gen Z is looking at relationships different. They are, first of all, communicating about money much earlier. I think within the first six months, whereas prior generations, we're talking about it years in, if not even after they get married. They are also leading the charge on pre-ups, millennials shortly behind. And they are looking at marriage so much more pragmatically because they don't want to

repeat the mistakes of prior generations where they saw their parents, you know, not have pre-ups and litigate for years. And I think a lot of that is a result of the desigmatization of, you know, divorce being taboo or pre-ups being taboo that's largely driven by social media. They're also the first generation that has had access to, you know, the internet and digital platforms for their, you know, in social media, like their entire lives. So they want transparency. they want to, you know, be practical. And they're also coming into relationships with tremendous amount of student debt and dealing, you know, obviously with the volatility of the housing market or this or that.

So it just changes the lens. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. As you were talking, I was thinking exactly that. I'm like, and the landscape has completely changed. I mean, the job market and everything is so difficult. Right.

And now AI and everything and housing. Right. And I understand wanting certainty. Yeah. Okay. So I want to talk about like financial infidelity. Yeah. Because this is not something that I've ever really thought of. What is financial infidelity? Yeah. So financial infidelity, there are so many different forms. But essentially it is, let's say,

your spouse, hiding a debt from you, or your spouse, you know, racking up credit card, debt without you, or signing onto a loan without your knowledge, or engaging in hidden purchases without telling you, or doing all of these, you know, financially, you know, making these financially driven decisions without consulting you. And often what I see in divorces is that there's always a financial surprise. Oh, we don't have as much money as I thought we did. Oh, he really doesn't make that much money, you know, the income that he was telling me. Or I didn't know that we took out this he lock on our house. I don't even know what the money was used for. So all of those little instances are, you know, financial infidelities. Do you know Sally Krawcheck? Oh yeah, yeah, Elvest. Yes. Yes. She was on my podcast a few

years ago. She's a badass. Yes. And she was talking about how so often this isn't necessarily applying to divorce, but like in relationships, men usually die first. Right. And women are left with the estate. And they have no idea what the finances are. Right. They never know. And it sounds like probably with younger generations, that's going to change. But at least with like, you know, our parents' generation, and maybe our generation as well. Like, I think that the tradition has always been that men are in charge of the finances. Right. It's like, quote unquote, that's their domain.

Right. And women take care of the household and the kids. Right. And obviously that's a little bit outdated. But, I mean, I would imagine that so many people are in for a shock when that does happen. Yeah. And I can actually just speak to, I mean, I see that all the time, right? And it's the same thing, whether it's in the divorce or somebody passing away, not knowing how to pay their mortgage.

And even, you know, one of my kind of. cousins when her husband passed away, the water was turned off because she didn't know how to even pay, you know, the water bill. And it doesn't matter, again, how much money you have. You can have all the money in the world. But if you don't know what, you know, it is that you have to pay or what your bills are, you're going to make mistakes. Where do you see financial infidelity show up the most?

Yeah. So, again, different forms. I think number one is lack of communication. So you're assuming that things are going a certain way, but you guys are not talking about it. I have seen a lot of debt, unknown debt, taxes unpaid, and hundreds of thousands of dollars unpaid taxes. You know, one partner is saying, I'm handling all this, or I'm working with the business manager, I'm taking care of all this, or they are, you know, going under on this construction of a home

and, you know, getting another loan and it just, you know, snowballs. A lot of times people living beyond their means and living a lifestyle that they really cannot afford and again going into substantial debt as a result. But one partner just really thinks, oh, this is our life, you know? I mean, I'm thinking about who is that woman in the Hamptons, like her husband committed suicide? I can't remember her name. She's not the only one. I mean, you see this play out, you know. All the time. Yeah. And it's really sad because in so many ways it's preventable. I mean, as a, as, you know, a couple and in marriage, you guys, it's a partnership. And if you cannot be able to communicate about this with your partner, it can put so much undue stress on them, but also leave you, you know, picking up the pieces. And it's a very, very sad, sad story. When people find out about financial infidelity, does it normally lead to divorce? So I find that it often cuts deeper than physical infidelity. And so many times I will hear, you know, somebody can get over the cheating or they can work through that issue. You know, maybe they were in an unromantic relationship.

But when it comes to money, that's where it's like, I can't get over it. Really? I never thought my partner would, you know, screw me over financially. And why do you think that is? Why do you think that that is more devastating than like a physical thing? I mean, both are going to lead. Like a safety thing maybe? I think so.

Both are going to lead you to therapy, right? Yeah. Or carry into your next relationship. But one is, this is the life we built. I can't afford to live this life. I don't know if I can put a roof over my kid's head. I don't know if I have to go back to work. You know, when you're trusting somebody, especially with money and expecting that they are,

they're fiduciary to you and you have a fiduciary obligation when you're married, it's really hard to find out that they did not act in, you know, your interest. Because you're exposed to. You're exposed to. I mean, that impacts your credit score. If you can buy your own home after, again, if you have to go back to work, all of these lifestyle changes that have significant impact. It must make you.

Yeah. so like hypervigilant in your own life, I would imagine. Yeah, my husband and I talk about it all. Yeah. It's funny because my boyfriend, he's in like real estate finance. Yeah. For so many decades, he's been seeing the same thing with people living way above their means. And he's like, as a result, he lives the complete opposite. Right. So I would imagine that being in your line of work as well, you'd be like, we're having these conversations. I know everything in all the accounts, right? But we are, we're like, there's no doubt. Probably talking about it too much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What are some red flags of financial infidelity?

Not showing, I have this belief that you can have things separate in a relationship, but transparency is non-negotiable. So even if that's your account, if I want to ask you what's going on in that account, you are going to tell me. So lack of transparency, refusing to communicate, basically placing blame on you on financial decisions or getting angry or getting defensive or, you know, just. blowing you off every time you want to have these conversations. I'm not saying to have these conversations when you want to Netflix and chill, right? But you should basically set up a time where you can go through

things and understand it. And if your partner does not have the patience for you, get a wealth manager or, you know, a business manager, whatever you can to help you navigate and answer the questions that you need. Is there a time like in a relationship where you see more people getting divorced? Oh, I think the hardest time for so many couples is when they have young children. It's a lot of financial strain and pressure and kids are hard. You know, I love my son, but it is a hard time. And then probably after the kids graduate. Really? Yeah. So you're seeing this like gray divorce, you rise and these trends on social media. But it's basically, you know, after the kids have graduated and, you know, you're 20, 20 to 30 years into your marriage and you want separate things. Yeah. And it's like the kids were the

glue that we're keeping it together. And then you realized, like, that was it. Yeah, that was it. Yeah. Interesting. You've referenced it a little. So how do you think social media has changed either, like, not just how we're approaching finances and relationships, but divorce as well. Yeah. I think that it has destigmatized divorce in a very positive way. You know, you see these trends now with divorce women having what the divorce rings. Yeah. And it's much more seen as a pivot. or a new, you know, journey in chapter and not as failure. Yeah, I mean, I didn't feel like mine was a failure. Yeah, no, it's great.

I mean, it was, yeah, as far as divorces go, like, it was as smooth, amicable and smooth as possible. And I know that it gets really complicated when there's kids involved and, you know, issues with finances. I mean, do you feel like finances or lack thereof keep women in particular in marriages too long because they can't leave? Yes. and where I really see it is when they don't have access to cash.

You in any relationship, absolutely need access to cash, non-negotiable. Because what I often see is he can just cut my credit card off today. I don't work or I don't have a job. And, you know, there was, I didn't represent her, but there was one of the housewives. Erica Jane talked publicly about the fact that she handed over her paycheck to her husband. And if she left, he was going to cut off the credit cards. Well, that's a reality, regardless of how much money you have, that is a reality every single day. I can't imagine living in that kind of dynamic. Yeah. So what do you recommend people do besides

establishing in that beforehand? Establishing. I think that you have to take them to therapy. I mean, it really depends. If you're in a abusive relationship or a financially coerce of relationship, sometimes it's not meant to be. Get access, talk to a lawyer, try to, you know, I like to use the phrase snoop and try to find out what the finances are. Get your last three years of tax returns. See if you can see credit card statements or, you know, bank statements around the house. Get access to the information. Go seek help from a professional and then try to create an exit plan if you want to exit

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or you're moving into my house, you know, that doesn't mean that I'm not. to support you for the rest of our lives or that you have an, you know, an interest in my property. Okay. Things like that. Or you can create a framework where we are going to buy this house together and we're going to own it proportionally to what our contributions are or whatever. So it's just another form of protection. Correct. What is the pettiest thing, if you can say, that you've seen?

Or is there a pattern that you see with people who are like engaging in financial infidelity or just in divorce in general that you have seen? Yeah. Never involve the kids. It's just, that's not great. be mindful of what you put out in your court filings. Your kids are going to see that. And particularly when people are on social media, be mindful. You know, every reel that you put out or whatever you publicly say about your partner, your kids are going to be able to see that one day. And sometimes their friends are going to be able to say that. And it will really, you know, it could be very damaging

to young children. So that's my PSA. Yeah. That's all evidence, right? Yeah. And I work in a world of, you know, facts and evidence. So I see a reel that you. you're putting out there disparaging your spouse. I was going to say, do you ever have to tell people get off, get off social media, like no TikTok, whatever they're doing? Really? Because they try to do that. They try to engage in that. I mean, not my clients particularly because I've, you know, but many times I see it and it's like, this is, this is not a good look. And it's only going, you know, you have to think of everything you put out there that the court can one day see. And if you're saying, you know, putting out misinformation, right, are mischaracterizing things, well, that can go to your credibility later down the road.

Yeah. Yeah. Has being in this line of work, I'm just curious personally, like changed the way that you look at love or romance. Maybe not in your own life, but just like in general. I think that we, for me particularly, you know, I was taught, I mean, I grew up on what the Disney princess idea, right, as a millennial, right? And so we all wanted to get married without the idea of what a marriage is. But, you know, it was always important for me to work. My husband is a lawyer by trade but doesn't practice. He is in entertainment, but we are our best friends. And, like, we work together, you know, bounce ideas off each other with work all the time, you know, confidentially.

But we are, you know, our biggest supporters. And I think it's really important to be in a partnership. Don't just have the big day. Have the marriage, you know, have the relationship, be their ride or die, not just for the ups. Because there are going to be a lot of downs. Yeah. You know. Yeah. You're going to deal with life's curves balls. I mean, I myself have. You know what I mean? So you just, you want somebody that's going to be able to, you're going to be able to communicate with and get through it together. I was going to ask you joint accounts are separate, but I heard you on another podcast saying that just because you don't merge your accounts doesn't mean that the law. Correct. Doesn't see that as merged, right? Something about it. Totally. So if absent a pre-up in California, community property state, just because you put your income, from your employment into a separate account doesn't make it separate. That's going to be split, 50-50.

Yeah. So joint accounts doesn't really matter. Yeah. Well, I think it's important to have your own separate account and joint accounts because, again, you always need access to cash, like if you need to get up and leave. And I think sometimes there can be these, I don't want you to have to check on like every dollar that I'm spending. I need a little privacy or I have a, you know, a couple thousand dollar budget or whatever

your budget is, unfettered spending without consultation. So if you want to get the purse, get the purse. Love that. Yeah. Biggest pre-up myth. That it can't change. I think it's really important to know that as life changes. And I was actually having this conversation with my hairstylist or one of my hairstylists. And he was talking to me about, you know, he signed a pre-up, you know, a long time ago. And it needs to be updated. And he was afraid to have that conversation. And I was just, saying, go change it. What is stopping you from having that conversation advocate for yourself? And as life changes, so should your agreements. Yeah. I mean, it makes sense. Right.

It's just like such an emotionally loaded thing, probably. Yeah. Because I would imagine someone would be like, well, you're thinking about divorce, like that kind of thing. Totally. Totally. Totally. But I don't think, I mean, like, here's a perfect example. Somebody gets sick, right? And you have pre-up terms where they've waived support. And they're not able to. And they're not able to to work, like that undue pressure on your family or them feeling unsafe in your marriage, that will impact all other aspects. Or if your job takes off and you want your partner to stay at home to help you, you know, catapult your career to the next level and take care of your kids or you weren't planning to have kids and now you are. You weren't planning to stay at home.

Like all of those little, I mean, they're not little things. They're big decisions, but they have huge financial decisions on A, during your marriage and in the event, you guys do not work out. Yeah. And just having gone through it myself, like divorce is so stressful and painful as it is that I just can't imagine not having these things clearly defined and having to. Like, I don't understand people who litigate for years. Like, that is absolutely crazy to me. Right. And my ex and I even threw our pre-up out and we did like a napkin kind of vibe. Yeah. Much to the shock of his attorney. But we had some ground. work. And I just can't imagine getting to that place and then having to like go through that

entire legal process and and coming from that emotional state that you're in when you're ending a marriage. Right. Right. That's just my argument for pre-naps. Yes. Totally. Yeah. My two cents. Okay. Biggest money lie people tell their spouses. I've got it under control. Yeah. I know my listeners, their spouse is going to say that and they're going to be like, What does that mean? Always ask. What does that mean? Because I've got it under control. Don't worry about it. I'm handling it. It might seem romantic or like your partner and specifically a man's like taking charge and he wants to be your provider. Well, that can easily turn into financial coercion down the road. Okay. Good to know. Most underrated financial habit. Stability. Yeah. One thing every woman should know before saying I do. Oh, there's so many.

There's so many things. Always have access to cash. Never let somebody control you with money. Always, always. And transparency is non-negotiable. One question everyone should ask before getting engaged. What are your thoughts on a pre-nap? Yeah. Yeah. Or, I mean, have the finance. Let's talk about the money conversation. Let's just do our own like makeshift disclosures of like, here are my assets. Here's my income. Here's my debt. And here's my plan. Because especially with debt, debt in and of itself is not problematic. It's when you don't have a plan or you feel like or your partner believes you can just take on debt without, you know, the obligation to pay it back. Biggest lesson you've learned after watching hundreds of marriages end. Oh, it all comes down

to communication and inability to communicate. And I think communication is an art form, right? And if you are not classically trained as a professional or do it every single day in your, you know, personal life, it is, it's hard to communicate with somebody we love. And it is really hard to advocate for ourselves and relationships. So that is, you know, really important. If you could leave the listener with one thing that you really want them to take home. I know a few things. Always have cash. Always have cash. Anything else that we didn't touch on or that you just want to drive home. Yeah. Always advocate for yourself. Yeah. At the end of the day, like you have to go home to you, right? You have to look at yourself in the mirror. And if you are in

uncomfortable with something in your relationship, speak up. And if you have children, I mean, those are your priority and yourself, of course, but always, always advocate for yourself. And it is not too late to advocate for yourself. I don't care if you've been together 15 years, 20 years. You don't like how something's working. Take them to therapy or whatever you're going to do. Yeah. But don't be afraid. Yeah. What's the worst? They can say no. Yeah. You know? I love that. Well, tell everybody where they can find you. Oh, well, I'm an attorney. I'm a partner at Blank, groam and I have a public platform called Love Richer, which really just helps to empower individuals, but particularly women, be able to communicate about money in their relationships and create financial

intimacy. So empowering. Thank you so much for coming. Thank you. I hope you enjoyed that episode. If you liked the episode and if you liked the show in general, please take a second to rate, review, and subscribe. It goes such a long way in supporting the show. Follow the show over on Instagram at well.pod. You can also follow my personal Instagram at Ariel Lori. I'm always sharing great clips from the episodes, and we also have full episodes on YouTube as well if you want to watch in entirety. Thanks for listening. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode. episode.