Well with Arielle Lorre - 65: Melinda Farina aka The Beauty Broker - The Ultimate Aesthetics Episode

Episode Date: July 15, 2020

In this episode I talk to Melinda Farina aka The Beauty Broker about her business as an aesthetic consultant to the stars, what procedures actually great and what we’re all doing wrong when it comes to our faces. She talks about how she built her network of esteemed practitioners; why finding the right doctor is so nuanced; how she goes about matching clients to surgeons; and why things go wrong in surgery. She also dishes on what procedures she loves, what procedures she doesn’t love (cough cough, lip lifts!), threads, beneficial non-invasive procedures and how to age gracefully. This is a juicy episode for all beauty lovers! www.blublox.com/BLONDE for 15% off your order! Produced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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without your rice-adviseur or SunnyCars. The following podcast is a dear media production. Hey, welcome to the Blond Files podcast. I'm your host, Ariel Lori, and I'm here to talk all things wellness. From how to achieve optimal health and well-being to the best beauty tips and everything in

between, no topic is off limits. I know there is so much information out there, so I'm here to help you navigate it all and live your best life. Thanks for listening. Let's get into it. Hey, everyone, welcome to the show. Today, I have a guest who a lot of people have requested, who I've been Instagram friends with for a while. And you guys, she brought it. I'm talking

about Melinda Farina, aka the beauty broker. And as expected, we had a lot to talk about. In fact, we spoke for like two hours and we could have kept going. She is just fascinating and so knowledgeable about all things, aesthetics. This episode is actually going to be a two-parter. So you'll get the full interview today. And then in two days, you'll get part two, which is the Q&A answering all of your questions. And we talk about like skincare and surgical solutions and we just get into specifics in part two. So about Melinda, she founded integrated aesthetics consulting and beauty brokers incorporated in 2004. She has a solid foundation in 28 years of extensive in office behind the scenes experience. licenses and numerous certifications in dentistry and practice management consulting. Her educational background, including a master's from Columbia in industrial and organizational psychology, makes her a unique, multifaceted commodity to the medical and dental aesthetics industries. From day one, she has worked for and trained with world-renowned surgeons and

esteemed industry pioneers to ensure her clients get the absolute best expertise in result for their desired outcome. This is a fascinating episode, so I hope you guys enjoy. Okay. So I am here with Melinda, the beauty broker, my Instagram BFF. Hi, guys. I know. We've finally pulled it together for all of you. We've been talking about this for a while. I can't even remember like how we got connected on Instagram, maybe through Ben or something like. Probably Ben. Yeah. Yeah. But we've been talking about doing this for a while. Obviously, things have been kind of crazy lately, but the people are demanding it. They all want to hear from you. So much. I mean, I feel like if they hear from me

enough, I get sick of hearing myself talk sometimes. I feel the same way too. I'm like, God, people just like just know every single thing about me. Like I'm such an oversharer. I feel like people would get sick of it. Same. Yes. So why don't we start by having you tell the listeners what exactly it is that you do. Okay, good question, because I get that question often. You would think they would know already. So, beauty broker, I'm a plastic surgery, consultant, patient safety, advocate, educator, and we are basically a consultancy.

So people come to us when they are looking for the best surgeon selection, the best safest results, when they're confused about what they need, aesthetically. We work with plastic surgeons. We work with all dermatologists. We work with cosmetic dentists, hair replacement specialists. And it's a worldwide. It's a global consultancy. How long have you been in business? So I've been in the industry since I was 13 years old. And yes, yes, I started working with friends of the family who were top surgeons when I was 13, just filing charts at an office and started my consultancy at 21. And I was, and I started my consultancy at 21. And now I'm in my 40s. So I've been in the industry all together for about 28 years.

Yeah. So I wanted to ask you how exactly you got into the field because I know that you've talked about before being in dentistry in the beginning. So how did you kind of make that transition? Yeah. So good friends of our family, we had plastic surgeons and cosmetic dentists who were close with my mom and my dad. And when I was young enough and I always had wanted to be a dental hygienist, It was like a dream of mine. Such a weirdo. So I begged my mother to get me a job at one of our close friends of the family who was a cosmetic dentist at his office. I was like, please, I just want to be in the office.

I was just obsessed with cosmetic dentistry when I was younger. And I'm like, if I get experience in now, and this is like how I was thinking at 13 years old, like not your normal 13 year old. Like if I get experience now, I'll be the best hygienist ever. by the time I'm, you know, and out of hygiene school, I was like planning on just zipping through hygiene school and starting super early. So I started working in a dental office when I was 13, and I slowly worked my way, you know, from the mailroom up. I worked front desk and then I kind of worked my way into the back sterilization, chair side, radiology, taking all of the x-rays at the

office. The assistants were training me, then trained me on all of the procedures in dentistry. and I loved it. So I was like, this is what I want to do. But every single day, we were working in an office that was very familiar with also plastic surgery and all aesthetic procedures as well because we would see those clients come in. So I was always having conversations with clients about different procedures they had done and, you know, looking at their health histories, seeing what surgeons they went to. So I already was very familiar with the plastic surgeons, you know, the who's who,

in plastic surgery from a very, very young age. When I went to college, I went to NYU for hygiene school and I decided that I wanted to work with Larry Rosenthal. There was the Rosenthal Institute of Aesthetic Dentistry. I went to a headhunter and I didn't even give her a chance to find an office for me. I go, this is the office I want to be in. And she's like, but I don't even know if he's hiring. I'm like, I don't care. Put me in an interview. I will get a job there. So she's like, okay. So I ended up going into Larry's office. I sat in a two-hour interview with him. And by the time I was done, he had already hired me for an assistant position at his office. And I was just like over the moon. I'm like, oh my God, I'm working with the number one cosmetic dentist in the world. You know, this is exactly what I wanted. He really paved the way for me in aesthetic dentistry and then, you know, opened up every door for me with every plastic surgeon in New York. York City. He was a very important part of who I am now and of shaping my career. You know, that was going to be my future that turned into Beauty Brokers Inc. today. So I have a lot to

thank him for. But Larry, I worked with for five years at that office. And then by the time I was done, I said, you know, I think I really want to be a consultant. Can you make some introductions for me and he did. You know, he introduced me to all of the top surgeons that I needed to know. And, you know, I went that first week to go meet a lot of these plastic surgeons, decided that I was going to be an independent consultant, went in, told them that, you know, I want to help them with their practices and help refer clients to them and learn more about plastic surgery. So, they opened their doors to me and I learned from some of the best surgeons in the industry. some of the authorities in our industry, the key opinion leaders of our industry. And, you know,

from there forward, they all opened doors for me, introduced me to different surgeons in different states. And I started traveling and going to meet with different surgeons, understanding what their procedures were, so on and so forth. And here I am. You have my dream job, just saying. I never knew what it was going to be because there were not a lot of people doing this. There were practice management consultants, which was initially what I thought I wanted to do. I didn't know it was going to turn into a referral consultancy, a referral consultancy. I didn't know it was going to turn into this. And there was one woman, you know, back in the day who was doing something similar and she was also doing a lot of marketing consulting and also writing books, you know, publishing books for

doctors. So she was doing something a little bit similar. But I think what I started is unique. It's more innovative in our industry and there's not a lot of consultants out there. Yeah, it's so needed. And even when I posted on my stories last night that you were coming on, a lot of people who follow me already knew who you were, but there were also people who were like, oh my God, I didn't know that this existed. This is amazing. How did I not know this? And I feel like especially now, well, you can tell me like how it's changed with social media, but it must just. be so overwhelming and so difficult to navigate for a lot of people who don't know anything about the industry and don't know anything about doctors. And I know that a lot of doctors that you work

with aren't even on social media. And it must just feel like, you know, where do I start? For me, I feel like I got really lucky with going to Ben. But it could have gone the other way. you know, I have definitely fallen for some doctors marketing on Instagram, whether that be for dentistry, which you and I have talked about, which I'm just fixing now finally, and for like fillers and stuff like that. So, so, so overwhelming. And there are so many marketing tricks and ploys out there. So it's so important to have somebody so knowledgeable help guide us and through this process. So you guys know I'm back in school and it has has been intense. I am literally on my computer from like 7 a.m. until 8 p.m. with very few breaks in between

and those between moments usually involve my phone. So I know I'm not alone here. We are all inundated with technology and harmful light all day long. My absolute saving grace has been my blue blocks, blue light blocking glasses, you guys. I cannot even tell you the difference that I feel when I wear them and when I don't. If you want to hear the science behind this, make sure you go back and listen to episode 47. But here's the condensed version. So blue light damages our eyes and leads to digital eye strain.

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free worldwide shipping and 15% off with the code blonde. That's B-L-U-B-O-X.com with the code blonde, B-L-O-N-D-E for 15% off and make sure to tag us when you get a pair. Hey guys, I'm Maddie Orlando. And I'm Lauren Orlando. As you probably guessed, we're sisters. And we're also co-hosts of the podcast The Sister Diary. Every week, we let our listeners into real-life conversations like the ones that we have at home. We have an eight-year age gap, so we always have a different perspective on things.

But that makes it pretty fun. We talk about navigating life, growing up on social media, and pretty much anything else. that we find interesting. You can catch a new episode of the sister diary every Friday. So going back, I also decided when I decided I didn't want to be a hygienist anymore, I switched over to Columbia University in organizational psychology because I felt like if I was going to be a consultant, psychology was huge part of that. And understanding the psychology of the choices that people make for themselves, understanding the psychology of how, you know, the motives of businesses. And that plays a lot into what I do on a daily basis, understanding what

motivates people to do these procedures, to seek out these procedures, and what motivates the surgeons to try to sell the things that they do, to try to pray on vulnerable patients or market in a very deceptive way. And you see a lot of that on social media. And it's really upsetting for me to see on a day-to-day basis because I, you know, talk to about 15 to 20 clients a day in consult, and I hear the stories and I see the results. And there are repeat offenders every single day that their names come up. And I'm like, why are they doing this? You have to understand, I go to every single meeting.

I sit on the panel lectures. And before a surgeon gets up on stage and talks to a room full of thousands of surgeons, they have to disclose what companies are paying them to talk about these technologies or, you know, these materials, these, you know, gel-derma, whether it's Allergan, whether it's in mode, whether, you know, it's Saiton. So they have to talk about the companies that are paying them to talk about, you know, their product.

And you don't see that on social media. So the layman doesn't know, like, okay, if this doctor's talking about this over and over again, they don't realize sometimes these companies are paying these doctors hundreds of thousands of dollars to do so. So, you know, whose best interest do they really have at heart? And that's tricky and it's deceptive. You have to understand that. You have to know that. And I feel like the insiders, we know it. You know, so oftentimes a doctor will post something and then like five surgeons will call me up. Like, did you see what this person put in? And like, this is such junk. And, you know, it's so, it's so dangerous for the patient and it leaves so much scar tissue.

Oh, like they shouldn't be talking about this. So I, you know, on the back end, I'm getting all of this feedback from thousands of surgeons throughout the world, people calling me, people emailing me. Like, hey, you know, you hear the unanimous take on what these doctors are experiencing in the OR. You know, five doctors are saying they get good results. And then a hundred other doctors are really getting poor results or they're finding a lot of scar tissue or they're finding a lot of complications or seromas or, you know, whatever it might be. I really listen to what the popular vote is on a lot of procedures, technologies, and products. So I'm getting a lot of feedback, and that's kind of where I draw a lot of my conclusions from. And that's a lot of like where my information is coming from that I post on my page.

It's coming from all of these multiple sources that are feeding me with a lot of this information. And, you know, I really take into consideration what all of them tell me. and then I put that information out for everybody to see. And then in the same way that doctors aren't disclosing, who's paying them on social media, they also don't have to disclose, like, their relationship with, say, like, an influencer or celebrity. So just because a doctor's posting a picture with a Kardashian doesn't mean that they did work on that Kardashian. I think that's so important for people to know, too. Yeah, there's a big public lawsuit with me in a specific surgeon because he is just extremely unethical.

And, you know, his biggest thing is working on very famous people. But yet, you're not a germ. You're not a plastic surgeon. So, you know. Yeah, I've been to him. I felt for it years ago. Yeah, yeah. We won't say any names.

We won't say the names, but most people have been to him. And most people, if they talk poorly about him, get sued because, you know, they sign their life away with whatever contracts they're signing going into that practice. So that's also something, make sure you read the fine print before you sign a contract and have a doctor work on you because you don't know what you're signing yourself up for and it could potentially be harmful for you if God forbid you go and speak poorly about that doctor because you had a bad experience. Right. Well, now that everybody is frightened. You work with the best of the best, trustworthy, very skilled doctors. So what is you process like, how do you vet these doctors and how do they become part of your referral?

So usually it is a, so doctors don't pay me, FYI. We have a practice management consulting company. So if they choose to hire us as consultants, then they pay me. It's a monthly fee. But that has nothing to do with the patient consulting company. I have multiple companies. So the two don't intertwine. When we're vetting surgeons for our referral network, it's a two-year process and it's a relationship building process. It takes multiple visits for me to go and observe surgeries. It takes hundreds of cases for me to look at that are basically the same case specifications and consistency across the board. So we look and take into consideration the same type of patient complications or the same type of case specifications. And then whatever his technique,

his or her technique is applied that I'm betting them for, whether it's a facelift, whether it's breast lift, whether it's tummy tuck. It has to be 100 cases plus that I'm reviewing, and we talk about each case in depth. And then there's like a 500 question now that I have that I bring to the doctor and we go through all of these questions. We talk about their background and their education and their training. We talk about, you know, what their goals are for the patient, what their philosophy is. We talk about their staff. We talk about systems and flow pre-post healing. We talk about the medications that are used. We talk about follow-up. We talk about office protocols. I mean, from soup to nuts, I really want to make sure that this is a safe option for my client that I know

if I refer someone over to the surgeon, they're going to be in the best, most capable hands. and that I know when I send specific cases to a surgeon, if it's a complicated case that they've done numerous amounts of these types of complications successfully, that's really important for me to see as well. So you're seeing, you said about 15 to 20 people a day per consult. So I'm sure you've seen everything. And I want to know what are the biggest mistakes? that we're making. What do you see people coming to you a lot that they need corrected or that they

did and didn't go well? What should we not be doing? Well, you know, it's funny. And I get this question a lot. A lot of people are choosing good surgeons, actually. You know, they're choosing good surgeons, but not good surgeons for that specific situation. So you're choosing a good surgeon, but you have to, You know, you can't, I'll use Dr. Romo, Dr. Thomas Romo in New York City, said this line to me once and I use it all the time. It's like, you know, if you want your nose to look like a boob, you go to the boob doctor. I use that one a lot. And I just started laughing. I'm like, that's true. So funny. A lot of people, you know, will choose a surgeon that's excellent for tummy tech, but go to

that surgeon for their rhinoplasty, or they're going to choose the surgeon that, you know, does a facelift well, but really is not that great with platysmoplasty or fat transfer or eyes, you know, especially the under eye area. There's not a lot of guys that excel in that area. Chins are usually underdone. Fat is usually overdone. So they have to look for specific things. Just because it's a quote unquote facelift doctor doesn't mean that they're great with every part of the face. So I really try to find what people's issues are and try to match them with the surgeon who excels in each specific area of the face. And that could take it from, you know, 200 facial plastic surgeons that I work with down to five, you know, five that really will deliver that result well

and address those issues really competently. So, you know, it is a process of elimination and it is a matchmaking process. And I really take a lot into consideration when referring a patient to a surgeon, which is mostly in part why I don't just name drop irresponsibly on my page. I used to. And when I used to talk about the doctors on my page and when I used to tag doctors on the pre and post photos, people would just, of course, bypass me and go to the surgeon and then choose the wrong person and then come to me and start complaining. How dare you work with him?

How could you put, you know, that's so irresponsible for you to put this surgeon. And I'm like, well, your case did not call for that surgeon's skills. You chose the wrong person. This is why I do what I do. This is why I'm a consultant. Yeah, I actually really like that you do that. And I did get a lot of questions that were like, who's the best doctor for this? Who's the best doctor for that?

And I should have told people, like, we're just not going to do that. Right. It is so nuanced, like you're saying. And, you know, it also, that's your job. So why do your job for free? Well, everyone expects me to do it for free. basically do. You know, it was interesting because I've changed the business model so many times. Every year we change the business model every single year. And people would complain, they're like,

do doctors pay you? Oh my God, I can't trust you if doctors pay you. I'm like, I'm sending this surgeon millions of dollars a year. But so what I did was I took a huge hit financially and I'm like, you know what? Because I'm so sick of hearing people say, oh my God, do doctors pay you? I'm not going to let doctors pay me anymore. How about that? Just to prove a point because I'm so passionate about what I do and I want to, and trust is so important for me. So I'm like, if that's what it means to have people's trust, then I will take the hit financially. I don't care. You know, money, I need well as it is. But we did. We took a huge financial hit. I stopped taking membership fees from doctors because we used to charge a membership fee for them to be in our network. And there were

some doctors who I would approach them like, I want to work with you. And they're like, well, I don't want to pay a membership fee. What was it going to do? Not work with the surgeon because he didn't want to pay a membership fee. You know, that wouldn't have been honest. either. So I was conflicted. And I'm just like, you know, altogether, if the doctors don't want to pay, then the patients are going to pay a consultation fee and they're going to pay me from my time. So we charge like a lawyer. You know, people pay me from my time. That's very smart. So, okay, so let's get down to the procedures. What, let's see, where to start? There's so much to cover here. What are the most requested procedures. I mean, what do people come to you seeking, usually? Everything. I mean,

I'm sitting here with Brittany right now. I mean, they come to us for everything. So, you know, usually when they write to us, there's a laundry list of concerns that they have. And we usually set aside either a half an hour or an hour to discuss their concerns, depending on how many concerns they have. We often receive many revision cases, because I think when it gets to the point of finding, a consultant or seeking the help and counsel of a consultant, a professional consultant in this industry. People are kind of at their wits end and they're in a place of desperation because they've made so many wrong decisions for themselves. So now they end up, you know, at my door and of course I let everybody in. You know, it's sad the things that I see. You know, people come to

me, revision rhinoplasties galore. A lot of people make really, really poor mistakes and poor choices for themselves when it comes to rhinoplasty, revision facelift all the time. People who are instant gratification seekers that do not want to go under the knife, so they have gone under multiple energy-based procedures. They melt the fat in their face. They create so much scar tissue for themselves with these, you know, ultrasound therapies that are just, I mean, ruining people's faces. people who go and think that fillers are going to change their world and lift their faces,

so they just fill in stack and stack and stack filler in their face. And now you have tons of filler embedded in the tissue and tons of edema in the face that is creating a lot of problems and stagnant lymphs. We see a lot of really, you know, we just see a lot of really sad situations. And I'm like, shit, I wish they would have came to me before they did any of this. And we hear that a lot from our clients. So like, I wish I would have found you before I made these mistakes. But there are big mistakes that are being made.

And people who just are impatient and want a quick fix. And the quick fixes sometimes are the worst fixes. And those are the ones that will, you know, create problems for many, many years to come. Yeah. And it seems like we're kind of living in this age of instant gratification. And everybody is comparing themselves to the next person on social media. And people younger and younger are getting these procedures done because they're are a lot of non-invasive options, right? Let's talk about some of the non-invasive stuff,

because a lot of my followers are probably like mid-to-late 20s, early to mid-30s. I know that they kind of range all over, but that seems to be the biggest demographic. So people are starting to experiment with things like lasers and fillers and Botox and all of that. So what do you like. We'll start with that. So I like microcurrent, even though Ben and I, we disagree on that one. Ben and I are very close, by the way, and we disagree on a lot of things. But yeah, we'll get to that. And I'm like, all right, Ben. He's like, okay, Melinda, I'm like, well, you know, you do you and I'll do me. I love him. That was so much, so much. He's like my brother. So I do, I do like microcurrent. I've been using it.

So, you know, for someone who's in our 40s, I feel like I look like I'm in my late 20s. You do. Yeah, and I get that comment often. So, you know, I have sustained my aesthetic with, you know, bi-monthly facials, professional facials, bi-monthly professional microcurrent. And, of course, I use my new face at home. Does the new face do anything? I feel like it does a little something.

You know, if you're consistent with it, it works. Good skin care, you know, getting on a really good regimen. SPF, retinal. absolute must-haves, really having quality products for yourself and being consistent with your skin care and in a really good skincare regimen diet. I don't drink alcohol. I don't party. I don't do anything. Those days are over. I used to be like this big New York City socialite. We were out until like five o'clock in the morning every day, hung over every day. No. It's ruinous, right? It was aging me. Yeah. Oh my God. I look at pictures of myself before I got

sober and I'm like, wow, I looked, I looked like a bad 40. Probably. I mean, that's probably exaggerating, but I just looked so aged beyond my years. I know. And we all kind of go through this, you know, that time in our lives where we're just out crazy and irresponsible partying. Yeah, I went through to New York. New York was my playground. I'm moving out to New York City now. I'm like, it's so boring here. I don't do anything. I'm bed by like, but I do. I have a very healthy lifestyle. I don't drink alcohol. I exercise, I drink tons of water. I wake up every day and drink my vibrant greens. So I think lifestyle has a lot to do with sustaining youth. I don't have children. I am not married. You know,

so a lot of that helps too. The stress takes, you know, there's the stress levels are pretty, pretty low. I have my dog. A new anti-aging secret. Don't get married. Don't have kids. It's funny because, you know, so many of the women who come to me, they're like, right after I had my kids is when this all happened with their face. Yeah. I'm sure there's like a hormonal dysregulation kind of situation happening there too, right? Yeah, I know you did a podcast. I didn't listen to that one with a hormone specialist, right? An endocrinologist. Did you talk to somebody? I've spoken to, let's see, yeah, I had one women's hormone doctor and then I had one who, she wasn't a doctor, but she had multiple certifications. Yeah, really important part.

of it. So as of recently, I've really been working with tons of endocrinologists because I'm just like hormones play such a huge role in the age face and the aging body and skin, especially skin on the body. We have a lot of women who come to us and they're like, the skin on my body is just so thin and creepy and it just looks so aged and old. And a lot of people have a lot of sun damage on their face and bodies, you know, which does, of course, enhance the aging process and accelerates that whole breaking down of the collagen and in the skin. But the hormones, the hormones play a huge role in that as well. So, you know, really stay on top of that. And if you haven't seen an endocrinologist, it might be worth going and setting up an appointment for yourself to just

check your levels, to just know for yourself. A lot of nutritional factors play a role in hormones as well. So I work, we've since hired a world-renowned nutritionist, Paula Simpson. She's formulated so many nutraceuticals. And she is just brilliant. She really focuses on gut health and how gut health affects hormonal health. So, you know, we have a huge focus in our company, not just on plastic surgery and procedures, but with nutrition, lifestyle, and gut health. That plays a huge role in it.

And things change. You know, if you're on a really good regimen for yourself and you develop good habits for yourself, in one year, you will see a huge difference and things will start to get better for you. So I think that's helped, you know, my clients, it's helped me, and it does make a difference. So that's a big part of it. So when you ask me things that I give the thumbs up to, I think lifestyle, creating good, healthy habits. But this is just common sense stuff. As far as things, procedures that are effective, again, facials, microcurrent, skin care, nutrition,

micrneedling, PRP, stem cell rejuvenation. So I really like micrneedling with the PRP. I think that's a great procedure. I like the light radio frequency micronedaling applications like Vivacchi and Morpheus 8, I think are great. Ben likes profound. I think profound takes a really long time to see results. I do think it works. I did profound twice. What did you? So tell me about that. How did you like it? So, okay, so I did it the first time when I did my nose job in lip lift, which we will get. too. I know you're not a fan. And I did that with Ben and I'll have to send you when we're done with this. I'll send you a before and after. And maybe I'll post it on my Instagram too because I have no shame. But I had so much fullness around my jaw. I pretty much had like no jaw definition and I had gone down the road of adding filler and it just made me look really masculine and then it migrated and then it went

away and it was just not cute. So yeah. So I had a lot of fullness under my chin, around my jaw. My whole face was just kind of heavy. Like, that's the only way that I can describe it. I did kind of have filler face, but a lot of that had subsided. I just kind of had, yeah, it just kind of looked heavy. So Ben, he's, as you know, is a big proponent of profound. Right. He works with them. Yeah, he works with them. And he's very open about that. But yeah, He loved it. And so I just figured, well, you know, if I'm going to be out, just do it. And it was crazy. I look at the before pictures. Well, no. Okay. So it was weird. The first time I never, I didn't really get that swollen. I did. I was like black and blue from the little, the little

puncture wounds and all of that. And I was swollen, but not like the big giant moon face that you see that some people get. But yeah, like around three to six months. night and day. All of a sudden I had a jawline, all of the fullness under my chin was gone. My nasal labial fold area was a lot lighter. What else did we do? I think we did up to my forehead. Everything was just lighter and tighter. And it was amazing and it lasted. Now, when I went back, like two years later to do my browlift and blephroplasty, we decided to do it again. I'm trying to remember. I think we did just lower face. And that time I didn't really see that much of a difference. I definitely saw some tightening, but

the first time was crazy. Yeah. I mean, I do see really nice results from it. I just wonder how much damage it's actually causing. Ben's like, it doesn't happen damage at all. I use the chicken cutlet analogy often in my consultations. I'm like, if you take a raw chicken cutlet and you put it on a grill, you know, you grill it over and over again, it's going to get hard and it's going to shrink up. And that's kind of, you know, when I think about heating devices and going into certain depths, I feel like that is what it does, right? According to a lot of surgeons, especially with ul therapy, which I hate all therapy, I don't even like the dermage, anything that's heating the tissue. You never want to denature tissues, right? Because you have to think for what's

going to be good for now and what's also going to be good later. So, you know, good for now, but not for good is not the way you want to go. Things that are going to denature your tissue now and tighten up the tissue now because you want that instant gratification result, you know, later on is not going to serve you when you really are looking into doing serious facelifts and necklifts and all of a sudden doctors are going in and there's like hardened, like hard blocks of rubber that they're trying to cut through, you know, and you want this beautiful swooping silhouette result and all of a sudden now there's like all inconsistencies because you have ruined and cooked the tissue and created so much scar tissue for yourself.

So, you know, everyone's like, oh, God, Melinda's such a hater. She's always, you know, poo-pooing on all of these different great, wonderful procedures. And I'm like, no, no, I see, you know, some of these things are great, but I'm always concerned about what's going to happen later on. You know, good for now, but not for good, is not okay with me. Because I'm like, later on is when you're really going to be concerned about aging even more so. And later on, you don't want to have these types of complications going in to try to do a base lift when there's tons of scar tissue could create all sorts of complications postoperatively

for yourself, like seromas, you know, or inconsistencies and lumpiness in the skin. People who go and they do tons of liposuction in the cementum under their neck, you know, because they have a double chin or whatever, when you strip so much fat from that area and later on have to do a pletismoplasty because the platysmal bands are now rearing their ugly heads, it's going to be all lumpy under there because there's no fat to keep it nice and smooth. You've stripped that away. Same thing with buckle fat pad removal. So I always think about like, okay, what are the results going to be now?

They might look good now, but how are these going to look later? And how is this going to play out for my client later on? So I have the responsibility of thinking for you guys and thinking ahead for you guys. And I think that's what makes me a well-received consultant because people are like, wow, I never even took that into consideration because I just want to. it to look good now. I'm like, you know, you want to look good later too, you know. Yeah. So to that point, let's talk about threads because this is something that's very, I don't know if it's popular. I think that the idea of it is really popular. And then people go do it and realize that it doesn't do anything and only usually causes issues. And that causes scar tissue, right? And all of that. But it's an instant gratification thing. So I had a lot of people ask me about it, even though I think I'm pretty vocal about not doing threads, but maybe they just missed it. Right. What are your thoughts on threads? So again, not a fan, not a fan of threads. It's like you're putting a thread in, you're pulling an, ooh, boom, all of a sudden you're pulling everything up and that's great because your skin is buoyant and, you know, young and youthful. So it reacts really nicely to a lot of these things. Then all of a sudden you're, you know, you're putting one, two, three, four. Some people put like 50 threads in their face. So you're putting tiny little like threads, right? So there's these lines and they're all.

hyaluronic acid-based threads and they're kind of like a barbed wire that you're putting in your face. So wherever you're placing that thread in the tissue, like say if you're putting it through steak, right? And you're putting it in, you're putting all these little threads in, you keep it there. And you try to cut through the steak. What's going to happen? It's going to, when you try to cut through, it's like when you get that scar tissue and your steak and you're cutting through and there's that like tough spot and you're like, what is this piece of scar tissue that you're trying to cut through. That's exactly basically what threads are doing to the face. So you're leaving scar to and striations. And then as you lose collagen and skin laxity and your skin gets thinner as you get

older, what's going to happen when the skin starts to sag and get lax? You're going to have like all lumpiness on the face because of that scar tissue that you put into place, you know, five years before or 10 years before. So you never want to, you never want to denature the tissue and do things to the tissue that, you know, later on when it ages, there's going to be like inconsistency. and lumpiness in the face. So again, you have to think about how that's going to play out later on. And they simply just don't last. You know, they just don't last. We have muscles in our face. We're constantly in animation. I mean, if we were walking around completely frozen face, not talking, not yawning, not sleeping, not washing our face, you know, not smiling,

then I would say, sure, you know, go and do a thread. And it's going to last. But we're always in constant motion. Our faces are always in motion. So those threads, they don't mess, especially the stupid fox eyes or whatever hell. The spock eyes. Spock eyes are so disgusting. I hate them so much. It's such a stupid concept. Oh, my God.

And then I don't know if it's Turkey. I think it's Turkey or maybe Russia, but the surgeons are doing the fox eyes and then they're doing the teeny tiny little, like, I don't know what they call it. Like a fairy nose and like a baby. It's just so. Yeah, Turkey kills me. Turkey kills me. I don't work with Turkish surgeons. There's actually one, Bulman Chihantimar. He's really good for it. That's like the one name I'll drop. He's great for body contouring. I think he's a really talented surgeon. He's really big in the lecture circuit. I really love him. But other than him, I just, I can't with the turkey guys. And the Russian surgeons, they just go over the top. But you know, they've really got it down to a science on how to pray on a volum. vulnerable patient because they know that there's a need that needs to be met and these women will

stop at nothing to achieve a certain aesthetic, you know, immediately because they want that instant gratification. So they do what the patient wants instead of doing what is right for the patient. And, you know, that's where I step in. And again, as a patient's safety advocate, I have a big problem with that. You never want to compromise function for aesthetic. That's, I have a huge problem with that. Right. So what surgical procedures do you like? Now, obviously, this is totally going to vary on somebody's age and their own aesthetic and all of that. But what do you think, like what procedures can make a big difference? I mean, I'm a huge proponent of the facelift. I love facelifting. You know, on the right case, on the right patient with the right surgeon, it could really be a game

changer. Really well done, conservative liposuction and liposculpture can make a difference on a woman's body. You know, if you're working out and you have these stubborn areas that is liposuction's great. You go in, you do good liposuction, but there's very, you know, it's rare to find excellent liposuction specialist. You really have to find the guys who've really, you know, honed in on their craft and their specialty and do it really well are ethical with their method and aren't, you know, know, taking any shortcuts or rushing through the process. And again, you know, this is a very artistic specialty plastic surgery. You have to find the artist. You really truly have to find the artist. When I vet my surgeons, one of the questions I asked them was like, what are your hobbies?

What do you do on the side? And I always pay attention to the guys who paint or draw or sculpt or have some type of an artistic hobby because I'm like, okay, these are the guys I really want to keep a close eye on. This is where you're going to find some really special work. Mm-hmm. So, I mean, you know, surgical procedures, I'm all for surgery. So I'm for any surgical procedure that's done well with the right specialists. And rhinoplasty is like a super specialty. You know, the rhinoplasti has its own society. So I always look at who's in the rhinoplastsy society. I always look who, you know, the ocula facial plastic surgeons, they're the underdogs of the industry. And I place the most value on my ocular facial plastic surgeons. Because It is such a specific area of the face. It is such a delicate area to work on and do surgery on. The oculophacial plastic surgeons don't get enough credit. I mean, I am obsessed with my ocula facial plastic surgeons.

They are, for me, they're some of the most special surgeons that I work with. And the biggest game changers, because when you look at a person's face, the first place you're looking at is into the person's eyes. So you always see the first place of aging you see on a person is around their eyes. So they hold a huge responsibility in their hands to be able to bring that person's eyes back to its old youthful appearance once again. Yeah, my browlift was the best thing I ever did. Brow lifts are game changers. Andoscopic lateral browlift is a really hot topic right now.

A lot of women are choosing to do it. But again, you know, the face is all in one piece. So when you address the face, you have it's all. got to kind of fit together and it all has the flow. So I know you have done a few procedures on your face down. Did you do all of them with Ben? So I did my, I did my nose and my lip lift with Ben. Well, everybody knows now that I did two lip lifts, which was very risky. But yeah, so I did the first one with Ben. I did those at the same time with the profound. And then, and at that time, I was starting to feel like I had a lot of hooting in my eyes. I naturally had hooded eyes. And for my whole life,

it was like just kind of cute and unique. And then after I turned 30, it started to get really heavy. And like there was no, you know, Botox can only make a really minimal difference. People think that they'll get Botox and look like Bella Hadid. And that's not the case. And Ben was like, no, no, you know, wait a little bit longer. And so we actually waited like two or three years until he was finally like, okay, we're going to do like a really conservative lift, really conservative upper bluff. And again, night and day, night and day. Like I look at old videos and old pictures of myself and I just looked, I looked really tired, really sad. It was just I had so much heaviness in the brow and in the eye area. And when I did the brow lift and the bluff with him,

nobody knew that I did anything. They just said that I looked really like bright and alert, and that was exactly what we were going for. Right. And then, so the lip-lift thing, I had asked him for a couple of years. We were so, so conservative with it. I had a really, really long philtrum and just a really thin upper lip. And I had tried for years and years to achieve a lift through filler.

And obviously that just kind of weighed it down. And I got the Marge Simpson lip, and it was not good. Um, so, yeah, there's the worst in that air. Filler, filler all together. I mean, I'm not a fan. Yeah. A little bit in the lip conservatively done I'm okay with. Yeah. And I want to get to that too. But it was just really bad. So I think we did like three millimeters. It was super, super minimal. And then I still wanted a little bit more. I wanted a little bit of tooth show. I felt like it was still kind of aging my face. And so I went to Dr. Mascarro and that was this past January. And I was really lucky. And I was really lucky. I got such a good result. And I love it. I love the lip lift. I know that you don't love it. So let's

talk about that. Yeah. So, you know, I was looking at, before we did this podcast, I'm like, let me go back, because I knew this topic was going to come up. For me, it is a controversial one. I recommend it for older women, because I think older women really lose a lot of laxity in their skin and their upper lip, and the upper lip truly drops on a lot of older women. We're talking about 55 plus. Now, when it comes to younger woman doing it is where I have the problem because I think it's overdone. I think it's unnecessary so many times I see it and I think it's so unnecessary and I've had this conversation with Ben over and over again. Oftentimes on a treatment plan, I will slash off the lip lift. It is like the first thing that usually goes because I'm just like it is not necessary.

You do not need this. You never want to intentionally put a scar on the middle third of the face and not, you know, it's risky. Not everyone's scars well. I have a young woman who is after absolutely stunning and married to like a major power player. And she was like model gorgeous and decided to do a rhino-pasty and a lip-lift at the same time, which is a major red flag, no-no. You never do those two at the same time for blood supply reasons. It could create major complications and necrosis of collumella and necrosis of the tip of the nose. So you never want to do the two together.

But I, she came to me after and she was just devastated. She's like, I feel like I look like a gargoyle. She's like, I looked so ugly and the scar was so bad. Her body rejected the sutures. She got an abscess. Actually, I actually have her seeing Ben right now because we're trying to figure out how to fix her. And she's like, this was the dumbest decision I ever made in my life. And it is literally, it has ruined my face. And she's like, and I just, I made the decision so quickly. I didn't think about it. I didn't research it. And I wish I never did it. I mean, this is, you know, it's a comment I hear often with women who have had issues with it. And I see more issues with younger women because younger women overheal because they have so much college in their skin. So they have a tendency to overheal and scar very poorly.

So I don't like it on younger women. There's a lot of young girls who come to me that have perfectly fine looking philtrums. And like even myself, I mean, I show all my lower teeth, which are crooked when I speak. but I show barely any upper tooth. And, you know, I go to Mike Appa for our cosmetic dentist and Mike is a really good friend of mine. We grew up together and he's like, you need to make your upper teeth longer. He's like, but never do a lip lift.

Never, you know, like, I won't. He's very much against it as well. But I see a lot of these young girls unnecessarily, you know, doing lip lifts and then they didn't need it. And now they have this like weird scar on the middle third of your face. You know, the nose and the upper lip is like, the centerpiece of the face. So you have to really be careful on that area, especially with rhinoclasty. I'm just like, you know, we have to be so careful, so conservative. Send it to the absolutely perfect surgeon,

you know, there's no room for void with that part of the face. So the fact that this procedure, and like all respect to Ben and Mascarro, like respect to the both of them, Dr. Talley, Dr. Miscarro, I think they're great for that procedure. But at the same time, my argument with Ben all the time is, is, you know, so many of these patients that you're doing, like, didn't need it, Ben. And he's like, well, it made her look so much more beautiful. What are you talking about? Like, but she didn't need it. You know, he didn't need it.

So we go back and forth. I'm like, you know, I'm like the mother who says, no, no, no. And the kids are like, oh, my God, my annoying mom. I'm definitely that person when it comes to plastic surgery. I, you know, I never want to take away from a naturally beautiful face. I want to enhance naturally beautiful faces, but not everybody is of that philosophy. So I am not for everybody for sure. Yeah, I like it, though.

I like that you are, I mean, I think that we're moving into this era where everybody is starting to look like the next person. Like there's this aesthetic, right? And everybody wants to have that same look. And it's the brow lift and it's the pouty lip and the little nose and like the jawline. I mean, it's like this clone thing. Yeah, it's like the clone generation is what I call. Yeah. And that's one of the reasons why I really love Ben.

because he really, and I know that there are other surgeons out there like this, but he really is all about preserving your natural beauty and looking like yourself, not looking like somebody else. And I like that you're a proponent of that too. Yeah. And I get the lip-lift thing. I mean, I think that, I mean, I've heard horror stories about lip-lifts from other doctors, even like some of the really good doctors in L.A.

and people who are known for in the lip lift, again, I won't say names, with like nightmare scars, nightmare results, can't close their mouth, you know, these horrible things. So I can only imagine that you've seen the worst of the worst, too. I have. And, you know, in difference, we work all over the world. L.A. is their repeat offenders in the hyper-athetic look. So a lot of my LA clients are really, really difficult clients to work with. I have to say, they're very demanding. They want all of these unnecessary procedures. They do too much. And, you know, their mindset is more is more. More is more. And I'm very much of the mindset that less is more. I am a New York businesswoman, you know, consultant in New York City, trained by New York surgeons, ultra conservative when it comes to, you know, aesthetic and aesthetic ideal.

So I really like to balance features and I'm very careful about, you know, executing specific procedures on a face because I could envision what that result is going to be and I never want my clients to look hyper-aesthetic. Well, I say this a lot, but I mean, L.A. is like the bubble of all bubbles. And I find that when I'm here, I'm like nitpicking, oh, I want to do this. I want to do that. It is like very hyper-esthetic. when I go to New York, that all goes out the window. I mean, each place, I feel like has their own aesthetic to begin with. And New York is very much more natural. And I would imagine other places around the world, everywhere has their own thing. L.A. is like, you're so spot on. More is more. Younger is better. It's like, it's impossible. It's impossible to keep up with it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard. Yeah, women are petrified on the West Coast, they are petrified of aging.

When I tell you, you know, I have women have anxiety attacks on the phone at me sometimes, and they're just like, I'm just looking so old and I don't know what to do and I've tried this, this and that and nothing's working. And I mean, they have panic attacks, literally talking about it. I'm like, okay, we need to sit and stop and take a deep breath and strategically plan, you know, our attack here. What are we going to do? And what's going to make the most sense?

So, you know, an exercise I have people do is to pick photos of themselves in five-year increments to really see how their face has changed over time, where they were, you know, when they were in their 20s and 25, 30, 35, 40, you know, leading up to whatever age they are now. And to look at those areas that have changed. That's if they want to look like they're younger selves. Some women come to me and they don't even want to look like their younger selves because they're like, I've always hated how I looked. So then we have to really sit down and plan like, okay, what is it that you don't like? why don't you like it and how are we going to change it and you know what's the right plan for you and who's the right surgeon for you um yeah i mean you really have to you know it's it's exploration and trying to understand your client but right less is more is is definitely more my my philosophy

and doing it in a safe way that's going to sustain the health of the tissues um and not compromise you know later on in life so that that's definitely more my philosophy. Okay, well, before we get to listener questions, we didn't talk about Botox and Filler. We kind of touched on it a little bit, but I feel like that's kind of what everybody thinks they should be doing right now as far as anti-aging goes. And as far as like little lifts and all of that, what are your thoughts on that? I know you're not a fan of filler. So, yes and no. Yes and no. You know, it's such a controversial topic. Here's something that I will start this, lead this conversation with.

So I had a phone call, a two-hour phone call with one of like the number one facial surgeons in the world the other night. He charges like $350,000 for a facelift. He's extremely popular. He's an excellent surgeon and he's an artist and he has no social media presence. He doesn't even have a website. So he and I were on this call and he was like, it's so. refreshing to talk to a young woman who, you know, really doesn't put a lot of power on this topic,

like for fillers and Botoxys, like, because it's just so abused. He goes, and you know, when people talk to you, Melinda, you need to tell them, filler doesn't add to a face. Filler takes away from a face. And when he said that, it was like, wow, that, you know, that's a really powerful statement that you just made because I absolutely agree with that. Filler does not add to your face. Filler takes away from your face and how is it doing that? So when you're putting filler into your face, it is compressing fat and it's stretching skin. And you're also filling it with hyalronic acid filler, which is extremely hydrophilic. So it acts like a sponge. It creates edema's. It stagnates the lymph in the lymphatic system in your face. We have lymph running throughout our face. It stagnates

the lymph. It creates swelling. And it also masks your own features. So when you're aging and things are falling, we're losing fat in our face a little bit, you know, incrementally, the skin starts to sag over so slightly. The muscles are atrophying and we're losing bone. We get bone resorption. So what are people doing? They're filling. When really, every time I talk to them, they're like, I just want to do this. And they put, you know, a finger on the height of their cheek and a finger on the corner of the jawline and they pull it back. So they're lifting. You know, they're pulling your lifting. So I'm like, okay, so you're putting. filler in because you want to do that. So you know, you're filling because you want to lift. So fillers fill,

but as things are falling down and you're filling, you're just making the surface area larger. You're compressing the fat and you're also stretching the skin. So you're contributing to all the problems that, you know, you're trying to fix in the first place. You're actually contributing to it, thinking that it's, it's better because it's a band-aid and it makes something look a little bit different. So you walk away feeling like you just, you know, you hit a home run. Or you get a little swollen and you feel good about it. Yes, that's exactly it. And then, you know, we're finding now that fillers are,

are lasting in the tissues for many, many years. Through scans, through CAT scans and ultrasounds and MRIs, they're finding that the fillers are embedding themselves in the tissues. So they spread out, they embed themselves in the tissues, and then we stack because we think it went away. But meanwhile, it's now, you know, it just flattened out a little bit. So you go and you get more and you get more. And every six months or four,

to six months, you get more and more and more. So I call it stacking. And then people come to me and they're just like, oh my God, I look like a monster. What, what's wrong with me? And then I look at their health history and their history, their operative history. And we look at everything that they put in their face. And usually it's a lot of voluma. Voluma's really, you know, the repeat offender when it comes to edema. And I have a lot of women who sadly put artifil and bellophil and, you know, silicone in their face because they're like, well, I just wanted to do it once and never have to worry about it again. And that stuff migrates and it creates all sorts of issues. Granulomas in the face that need to be cut out. It's a nightmare. So never ever, ever put a permanent filler in your face. I don't care who says it. I don't care if it's a doctor. I know I'm a consultant. I'm not a surgeon. But the surgeons who are doing it should not be doing it. So shame on them. You know, I just don't, I think filler is a bandaid. Filler is a bandaid. And you're trying to know, filler is an excuse. it's basically something that a doctor saying yes too because yes is what you want to hear

nobody wants to hear no nobody wants to hear the word surgery no one wants to go under the knife and filler doesn't lift filler fills facelifts lift and i say it over and over and over again i'm like it's such a simple concept you know just like if you have saggy boobs you're just going to like put tons and tons of you know filler or fat and boobs because you're you're looking to lift them and get a perky breast, no, you're going to do a breast lift. So, you know, I think that, I don't know, I've just seen so many people make big, big, huge mistakes with filler. And filler face never looks good. You know, a swollen face just does not look good. I like a tight contoured. I like sharp contours. I like a tight face. I like healthy looking skin. And I don't like, you know, a swollen look.

So it just doesn't, it's not in alignment with my aesthetic ideals. You said something recently. I can't remember where, maybe I've heard you say it a few times, but you said maybe you just have to wait. Sometimes you have to wait for things to get a little bit worse before you can do something about them. And I feel like, okay, that's what I'm going to do now. Yeah. Well, I'm still kind of in my early to almost mid-30s.

But the next thing on my agenda will be a mini lift, but not for many, many years. Right. So the thing you have to worry about as being, you know, as healthy as you are and as fit as you are is losing more fat in your face because you'll see, you know, the premature sagging. And plus you live on the beach. So I'm sure you're exposed to the sun often. So, you know, sun damage of the skin. So that's something you have to be concerned about, you know, for later on. But to me, in my early 40s, I'm like, okay, I'm starting to notice a little marionette line. I'm starting to notice a little bit more hollowing in my teardrop. And I haven't touched my face. Granted, every single day, surgeons are like, come in and I'll do this for you, Melinda. Come and I'm like, no, I turn away everything. It's free and I turn it all away because I'm just like, no, I want to see my face age a little bit because

then I'm going to go and do a mini lift and then call it a day for another 12 years and not have to do anything, you know? I would look like the cat lady if I was in your position because I would say yes to everybody. Most people would. You know, girls call me all the time they want to work with us. And Brittany also is extremely conservative. So she's just like, she tries like a little vitamin C serum and it makes her day. But we both get offers all the time. Come in. We want to offer you this. And we want to do this. And I'm like, no, I don't want to use any of these devices. I don't want to laser the hell out of my face. I don't want to, you know, put all therapy on my face. I don't. want this liposuction procedure because you saw my double chin on my, you know, Instagram video. I ate a lot of pasta over quarantine. So yes, I have a double chin right now. Oh, didn't we all? Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, a lot of these things are, of course, offered to us, but I rarely ever say yes to anything. And I want my face to age a little bit. I think that, you know, everyone's constantly seeking for, you know, what about now?

What could I do in the meantime? And that is something that people ask me on a daily basis. And I'm just like sometimes there is just nothing to do right now. You just unfortunately, you know, have to wait. And that is something that a lot of surgeons have a hard time telling patients because they don't want that patient. They know that patient's going to walk out of their office, go across the hall, walk into another office, and have a procedure done. And they don't want to, you know, lose out on that, on that financial gain. Right. Yeah. But you'll get a better result if you wait, too. You will get a better result if you wait. And, you know, it's hard for a lot of women to do. Women, you know, in general, just do not, they have a hard time watching their faces age. They

do not want to see the aging at all. There always has to be that answer. They never want to take no for an answer. And I turn away patients all the time. People write to us and they send their photos or they'll send an initial email and I'm like, nope, this is not a good client for me. It's someone who's asking about a lot of non-invasive fillers. You know, facelifts are in an option. Surgery isn't an option, Melinda. Like, you know, but and I look at their photos. I'm like, oh, there is like, I'm not, there's nothing I could do for this person because, you know, let someone else give them bad advice. That's not going to be me. You know, I have, um, I have some type of, of a moral compass that I try to stick to and I don't want to lead anybody in the wrong direction.

It is my reputation behind where I send that person. It is my reputation behind who's doing that work. It is my reputation behind what their result is going to be. I feel responsible for my clients. So I want to make sure that they're always in the best, most capable hands. I hope you enjoyed that episode. If you liked it, and if you like the show in general, please take a second to rate, review, and subscribe. It goes a long way, and it's actually the best way to support the show. Also, if you want to see more about each episode, you can head over to The Blonde Files podcast on Instagram.

I'm always posting about each episode there or over on my personal page at Ariel Lorry.