Well with Arielle Lorre - 75: Kristen Howerton, LMFT - The Anxiety Episode

Episode Date: September 16, 2020

In this episode I’m talking to therapist and author Kristen Howerton, LMFT about all things anxiety. We cover everything from social anxiety to unexplained anxiety to circumstantial anxiety and how to deal with it all. We also discuss why some are more predisposed to anxiety than others; how to show up despite being anxious; dealing with anxiety in a quarantine; techniques to pull through a panic state and so much more. We also have a listener Q+A segment where all of your most pressing anxiety questions are answered.   www.eatenlightened.com/blondefiles for 10% off and free shipping! www.cleancause.com with code BLONDE to get 20% off your next purchase www.helloned.com/blonde to get 15% off your first one-time order, or 20% off your subscription plus free shipping!   Produced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Hey, welcome to the Blond Files podcast. I'm your host, Ariel Lori, and I'm here to talk all things wellness. From how to achieve optimal health and well-being to the best beauty tips and everything in between, no topic is off limits. I know there is so much information out there, so I'm here to help you navigate it all and live your best life. Thanks for listening. Let's get into it.

Hi, everybody. Welcome to the show. Today's episode, I'm talking to... Kristen Howardton, she's a licensed marriage and family therapist and an author. And this episode is so relevant because it's all about anxiety. I don't know about you, but my anxiety was at an all-time high this year. And I attribute that to having a lot more on my plate with, you know, juggling school and work and of course the current state of the world. And I think some of it is also like growing pains, spiritual growing pains in my sobriety, in my relationships, my identity, my relationship with myself,

all of that. And I just want to note that when I refer to my anxiety, it's not generalized anxiety disorder or panic disorder or anything like that, thankfully, it's just something that comes and rears its ugly head occasionally, sometimes for seemingly no reason, and other times around stressful situations. So I've found that my social anxiety has also been really bad. And I kind of feel like outing myself here instead of hiding it in therapy is a good step towards overcoming it. And maybe it's because it just feels heightened because after six months of seeing pretty much nobody going into any kind of social situation is a bit of a stimulation overload and of course

meditation prayer letting go acceptance gratitude coming back to the moment those things obviously help a lot but sometimes like yesterday for example i'm just hit with a wave of anxiety and all i can do is like shut it down get in bed and ride it out and it doesn't happen often, but when it does, it really sucks. And I know I'm not the only person dealing with us. So anyway, in today's episode, we talk about social anxiety. We talk about that anxiety that feels like it comes on for no reason. We talk about anxiety that comes on for reasons. We talk about the current situation we're all in. And then in the second half of the episode, we take listener questions. And it's just a really fascinating Q&A. And I think you guys will find it really helpful.

So anyway, a little more about my guest. She's a self-proclaimed lapsed psychotherapist. She is an author with a new book, Rage Against the Minivan, and a blog by the same name. She's a social justice advocate and host of the podcast Selfie. So enjoy Kristen Howerton. Okay, welcome, Kristen. Thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me.

So you are a licensed marriage and family therapist. You're an author. you are a mom of four, right? Four. Yep. So you have you have a lot going on. And there's a lot that I want to talk to you about today, but I think I want to focus specifically on anxiety. And dealing with anxiety in this current climate that we find ourselves in and just how to give ourselves some grace. And I did an Instagram story where I asked people to send in their questions thinking maybe, you know, we'd get a few. And I've been inundated in the past couple hours. People are just really struggling right now. I think, you know, anxiety is something that's just so prevalent in our society today because there's a lot of reasons. But right now, you know, it's particularly heightened. So we will get to those as well. So to start off, can you just tell us about yourself and maybe your own experience with anxiety? Yeah. So as you mentioned, I'm a mom of four. I just wrote a book that came out right in the middle of a pandemic, not the most ideal timing. But it is a memoir called Raging Against a Minivan in which I talk about, among other things, my journey with anxiety and with what I jokingly refer to as being a skilled catastrophizer. But I have struggled with anxiety since I was very young. And then it kind of compounded in some life experiences.

I had several miscarriages in a row. So I dealt with recurrent pregnancy loss. And then I was in the big earthquake in Haiti. And so there were just some traumas that happened, some big traumas, and then just some life experiences. I got a divorce that, you know, have contributed to me continuing to struggle with anxiety. And for me, what that has looked like is having to learn how to let go of trying to control outcomes, because that's what we do when we feel anxious, is we, you know, oftentimes anxiety is an attempt

to figure out how we're going to deal with an outcome that hasn't even happened yet. So it's like all of the pain and none of, you know, like none of the reality. And what's tough is I think that all of us are close. collectively in that right now with this pandemic because we don't know what the outcome is. We have, you know, some general anxiety about our health and like, will I get it? Will I survive it? Will the people I love get it and survive it? But then there's also that just kind of nagging like, I don't know what's going to happen. Like, you know, when is all of this going to end? And when does life go back to normal? And I think all of us are living under that anxiety that is, you know,

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super rad small businesses and we're going to be learning about other incredible makers in the food world and who even knows what else. Anything's fair game in 2020, right? What's got to be cooking in the wild? Here we come. Yeah, and I don't know if you've found this at all, but I feel like it's been such an emotional roller coaster in that I know that you have kids. So I'm sure this has been very different for you. But in the beginning for me, it was kind of like, okay, this is really scary. And God, I hope nobody that I know gets it. I hope I don't get it. I hope that, you know, it doesn't turn into this huge thing where a lot of people lose their lives. Oh, my God. Okay. And then I was like, well, it's kind of nice not socializing.

It's kind of nice, you know, not sitting in traffic for four hours in L.A. And so that made the beginning a little tolerable. And then you kind of get used to it. And then you think things might be getting better. So you get hopeful. And then things get worse. And so then you're, you know, and it's just this like up and down. It is.

It really is. I think it is. And I think we've all gone through those stages. I mean, like you said, I think at the beginning, a lot of us felt kind of positive, like, well, this is a much needed pause, right? Like, you know, this is nice to spend some quality time with my family for a month. And then month four, we're like, oh, my gosh, when is this going to end? But yeah, I think you're right.

I think we all are going through stages. And I mean, for myself, I have found it hasn't really gotten easier. I mean, I actually feel like the longer we've been in this, the more I struggle, you know, just like, okay, this is, you know, when it felt temporary, it was a little easier to deal with. And I think we're all settling into like, wow, we're in this for a while. Yeah, I totally agree. And I think it's also like, we're in this for a while and things aren't ever going to be what they were before, right? Like, like when we get back to normal, normal is going to look different than it did before. So it feels very, very, just that unknown. That's just a recipe for.

for anxiety. It is. It really is. And so, you know, I think that's what really all of us have to kind of accept is like, first of all, to not feel ashamed or embarrassed if we feel anxiety, because that's a normal human reaction to what we're going through. And, you know, from time to time, I'll see people on Facebook say things to the effect of like, I'm not going to live in fear, or, you know, refer to people expressing concern about all of this as fearmongering. And like, like, I just think we need to let go of that shame. Like anxiety and some fear is a normal human reaction. Those are normal human feelings right now that we need to allow ourselves to feel.

Now, of course, that doesn't mean we're going to give over to them and sit in that fear all the time. But we kind of need to look at it in the face and recognize it and then let ourselves off the hook for those feelings. I'm curious to hear your point of view on this. I wonder if, I mean, do you think that some of this defiance? from some of those people who are, you know, calling it fearmongering. Yeah.

Is that just because they're really effing scared? I think so. I absolutely think so. And that's what I try to remind myself because I can get very frustrated with, you know, I can feel very indignant. And my social justice lobe starts firing when I feel like people, you know, are going and yelling at a teenager who works at Costco or, you know, because they're. being asked to wear a mask or, you know, I think that we're watching everyone's internal fears

sort of spill out in different ways. And so I try to hold some empathy for people whose fear is coming out in a way that is maybe offensive or, you know, different than mine. Not to say it's okay, but I do think all of this is really fear. Even the people who are saying, I'm not going to live in fear, even saying that what they're really fearing is, you know, being controlled or, you know, that someone else's fear is going to affect them or influence them in some way. Right. Yeah. You know, I heard somewhere that like disasters bring out the best in people. And this situation seems to be bringing out the worst in people. I mean, I don't want to say it's all bad. I think. that we've been seeing some of the best in humanity for sure.

But, you know, it's kind of like compounded with the fact that everybody is kind of stuck and like without maybe so many of the distractions that we normally have. And so it's kind of just like you said, like these feelings are just kind of overflowing and maybe causing people to act kind of in erratic ways. I think so. Yeah, I really think so. And it's tough because, you know, there's the old saying like, you know, in when things are bad, look for the helpers. But I think some of the people who are behaving poorly, maybe the louder ones, you know, but I think I think the helpers are still there. I mean, I've tried to remind my kids, you know, like, look at what people have done collectively. And no, it's not everyone. But like, look at how many sacrifices people are making to try to make sure that people stay healthy, you know. Right. But yes, I do think it is, it is definitely a Rorschach test into people's empathy level and also just where they, where they sit in terms of collectivism versus individualism, you know, and we live in a country that has really valued individualism and has valued just kind of every man for himself. And now we're seeing what that looks like in a crisis.

Yeah, and it doesn't look good. No. No. No. And I think it's a real, I think, opportunity for us to consider. And this isn't political at all. This is social. Just like, do we need to move as a society towards more collectivism?

Do we need to move towards more care and compassion for one another? And I think we're really seeing that we do that this is a thing we need to work on. Yeah. We were just doing your podcast and we were talking. a lot about recovery. And I've thought about that a lot during this because in recovery, you know, it's there's this emphasis on being selfless and focusing on on helping somebody else. And if we could all just focus on that, you know, rather than what this means for me. At least when it comes to, you know, it's something so simple like wearing a mask. I know. You know, it's like it's not about you.

Right. It's not about you. But I will try to have empathy. I'm not saying I'm always succeeding at that. So what are some ways that anxiety may have been manifesting for you or for your family? You know, we mentioned that you have four kids and I'm assuming they're all home right now. And you had a book come out. And I see you're on like your podcast. You're on your Instagram lives. You are like doing so much. much. It seems like, that seems like it would be overwhelming to me. It has been. It has been really overwhelming. And, you know, I have struggled in this pandemic with, and I know this is true for so many people, it's like, I know that I'm at a reduced capacity emotionally. I know that my stress level is high. And yet, I still have a job, right? Like, I still have to show up every day and do my work. I still have to, you know, manage my kids' school and be a parent when my body is literally screaming at me, like, lay down, you know? Right.

And then the way that manifests for me, as I think is true for many people, is, oh, well, my stomach doesn't feel well, right? Oh, my gastrointestinal issues are, you know, popping up. Oh, I have a mystery rash, or I'm like my eczema is really flaring up because, you know, I think it's my body. just kind of saying like, hey, we're tired. And, you know, I think I've had to kind of do that daily dance of like, how much can I let go of today? You know, how much do I have to do? And what can I let go of and what can I let myself off the hook for? And I think that's what everyone has to do. Because we're all, we're all at reduced capacity. I don't think there's anyone who's just like, in the middle of this, like, okay, it's go time. I'm.

I'm at my best. I'm living my best self right now. You know, I think we're all dealing with that existential stress. You guys know I have been on a cinnamon roll kick for a while now. And can I just tell you about my latest obsession? Cinnamon roll ice cream. That's right. Dreams come true. This isn't just any ice cream either. It's enlightened. So this ice cream is great whether you are looking to cut down on sugar, load up on protein, if you're trying to go keto or plant-based, or if you want to trick your significant other into eating something just a little bit healthier. Enlightened has got you covered, okay? They have so many creamy, indulgent flavors you'd never know they were made with little to

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are like working from home and it's making them feel unproductive and burned out. So they're trying to overcompensate. And I know like I'm doing the same thing with school. And how can we give ourselves some grace around all of that? Yeah, I mean, I think for one thing, it's looking at what are the things that actually reduce my stress, right? So we all have things that we do that distract us from our stress, you know, I mean, watching television or having a little too much to drink or, you know, we all have those distractions or scrolling through Instagram till one in the morning. And some of those are harmful and some of those are neutral. But I think we have to. then find the coping mechanisms that are helpful, you know, that move us forward, that aren't just taking us away from our feelings, but that actually help us process our feelings. And it's different for every person. For me, that looks like getting outside. That's always a big reset button for me, getting outside in nature, being reminded that like, I'm actually kind of a small little speck in this

big universe. And my problems always feel much smaller when I do that. For some people that looks like journaling. I think for a lot of people, it looks like figuring out how to connect with loved ones in the middle of this, whether that looks like, you know, finding a neighbor that wants to sit on the edge of their driveway and yell across the street, you know, and have a conversation, socially distanced conversation, or, you know, figuring out how to get on a Zoom call with some friends, have a phone call with friends. I know I think that most of us know what our good coping skills are. But I think it's just giving ourselves the permission to do that. And then to end our day at a certain time, right? Like if it didn't get done by 5 p.m., we can just, we can put it away.

I saw a funny meme the other day that said, we're not really working from home now. We're living at work. Oh, my God. Right? That is spot on. That resonates. Wow. And so just figuring out, like, how do I end my work day? Because, you know, we probably all got our laptops at home that we're working from. Like, how do I, how do I end my day? And then say, it's okay if everything didn't get done. It's okay. Right. Boundaries. Yeah. So what about people who may be experiencing a little too much closeness with their loved ones? Yeah. I mean, listen, I live, I have a lot of children. I get that. I mean, if your kids are old enough, if it's kids that you're living with, I think figuring out a way to go for a walk, figuring out a way to what I do in my house is my kids don't have to go to sleep at nine, but they have to be in their rooms, right?

And they can be doing whatever they want, but I know that I'm off the clock. But if it's with partners, I think just really having open conversations about everyone's different needs. you know, because in a lot of partnerships, you've got one introvert and one extrovert and one person who's pretty fine just with the way things are going and the closeness and like, let's chat, let's talk, that fills them up. And then you might have an introvert who's like, I'm dying. I don't want one more conversation. So I think it's just communication and then, you know, finding that space wherever you can take it, even if it looks like shutting your door or if your kids are little, like we're having reading time now and everyone just has to go to the rooms and read

and being okay with that. And also being okay with a video babysitter if you have to, you know, whatever it takes. Yeah. I feel like about, you know, speaking to the introvert thing, I'm, I'm kind of an extroverted introvert, I guess. And I was really, and my husband's an extrovert. And in the beginning, we were in those roles where I was like, oh, this is great. Like, I can just, you know, hang out and don't have to like see people. And I can, you know, I felt energized because I was alone a lot. And now it's kind of like flip flopped a little bit to where he's fine now. And I'm like going crazy.

So funny. Yeah. That's tough. So I want to get to these listener questions because we have so many. And a lot of them are pretty similar. So I'm going to try to weed through them. and ask the main ones. So, let's see, combating, how can I combat anxiety caused by living at home during quarantine?

Kind of spoke to that already, but is there anything you would expand on? I mean, the other thing I would say is if it's at all feasible financially, now is a great time to get into therapy if people are not. because just about every therapist I know is doing video calls, which means that you can see a therapist that doesn't live near you. You can see a therapist from your bedroom. You know, we're no longer in that thing of like finding someone who's close enough and finding the time. Two of my kids have been doing therapy from home during quarantine and it's been absolutely helpful and it's really nice because they just do it from their rooms. So if you're really struggling, I think that's a good place to start, which I also recognize therapy is very expensive.

if your health insurance doesn't cover it. But I would just definitely encourage people to look into therapy, look into online support groups, you know, find another group of people who are dealing with the same thing. So many people are online right now looking for like-minded people, you know, to walk through and help each other with similar struggles. Let's see. What makes some people more predisposed to anxiety than others? Yeah, I wish I had a better answer than this one because it feels a little bit fatalistic, but the reality is that some of us are more genetically predisposed. But then some of us have childhood conditions that wired us to be more predisposed as well. So if we had a childhood that was chaotic, if we had a childhood that was really unpredictable, if we were parentified as children, so our parents kind of put us in a weird parental role. If we grew up with parents who struggled with addiction, all of that can kind of wire us to be more predisposed to anxiety as well.

I'm curious to your thoughts on attachment. Yes, I absolutely think attachment, like a lack of attachment can predispose someone to anxiety. And secure attachment? So if you grew up, and even in the really young years, if you did not feel safe and did not feel like your needs were being met as an infant as a toddler, if you did not have. a parent who was making good eye contact with you and showing you, you know, that you were worthy and loved, those things can definitely predispose people to both anxiety and depression and addiction as well. Since we're talking about anxiety today, it is a perfect time to talk CBD.

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H-E-L-O-N-E-D dot com slash B-L-O-N-D-D-E. to get 15% off your first one-time order or 20% off your first subscription plus free shipping. I'm curious so that if anybody is struggling with this, maybe they can kind of discern. But I struggle with anxiety. I thank God, haven't struggled with depression. But can they feel similar sometimes? Or is it kind of two ends of the spectrum? They can definitely feel similar.

And they can be very intertwined. A lot of times people suffer from both. What we'll find sometimes is that depression is the underlying issue, but anxiety is the way that someone deals with their depression. So they may feel a lot of sadness, but then they may do a lot of worrying and ruminating as a way to not feel that sadness. So they can definitely be coexisting. That's not uncommon at all. What are some ways to center ourselves if we're feeling anxious? I mean, I will say, as tried as it sounds, there are just some great apps for that.

When you can't pull yourself out, there's so many good meditation apps that will do a five or ten minute even meditation through how to calm down, how to pull yourself out of panic, how to pull yourself out of anxiety. Breathwork is really good, you know, if you can learn just some breathwork techniques. and you can find breathwork techniques just with a simple YouTube search. I will say this, though, learn your breathwork techniques before you're in a panic state, right? So don't like go Google breathwork while you're in the middle of a panic attack or an anxiety attack.

Learn the breathwork, learn to practice it and put it in place while you're calm so that you have that when you're not. It doesn't really work, you know, when you're already in the middle of it. Right. Yeah, it might make it worse. It very much can, yes. How can we cope with anxiety when it comes to people or situations that we can't avoid? Yeah, that's a hard one. I mean, if it's people that you can't avoid that create anxiety for you,

I think it's really important to ferret out what it is that's causing anxiety. And if it's a reaction that's on your part or if it is a behavior on their part or as is often the case, you know, probably a mixture of both. And then to look at that from a systemic viewpoint. So what is it that they do that causes me anxiety and how could I behave differently in that situation? But then also, what boundaries can I put in place with this person to reduce my anxiety?

So say, for example, it's a parent who's constantly talking about politics and that political conversation makes you feel really anxious. then it's okay to say, you know, I would like to not talk about politics with you. Or if we're going to talk about politics, I would like to set aside a time that we do that. So we know when we're doing that. So it doesn't just pop into a regular conversation. So just figuring out, I think, boundaries with other people is probably the number one thing we can do to lower anxiety with other people. Because we can't control them, but we can tell them what our boundaries are.

Right. Yeah. So important. I'm curious your take on dealing with social anxiety. Yeah. Social anxiety is a tough one, and I have dealt with that one as well myself. I think the best advice that I can give for people who deal with social anxiety is to really research cognitive behavioral therapy. If you could find a therapist that does it, that's ideal. But if you can't find a therapist, there are so many good books on this topic.

And cognitive behavioral therapy, the way that that helps those of us with, anxiety is it helps us start to look at the thinking patterns that create our anxiety socially. So for me, for example, I do a lot of catastrophizing, which is I think things are going to go really bad when I walk into this situation. I also do a lot of mind reading, which is thinking or trying to predict what the other person I'm talking to is thinking of me, right? So instead of being present in a conversation, the whole time I'm thinking, how am I coming off? Do they think I'm weird. Do they think I'm cool? Do they think I'm overbearing? Right? Like a lot of mind reading. I do a lot of future casting. And then when I'm finished with a social situation, I do a lot of ruminating over,

like just going over the whole situation. What could I have done differently? You know, what do they think of this? And so cognitive behavioral techniques help us learn to identify those irrational behavior patterns and develop better ways of thinking. And it helps us to stop some of that catastrophizing, the mind reading, the future casting that tend to be pretty fraught in social anxiety situations. Yeah, it's really, really exhausting. It's really exhausting. It sure is. That's the anxiety that really has been my biggest struggle too. Yeah. And it's everything that you said, you know, it's funny. It's like you're talking to someone and you're not listening. You're thinking what they're thinking.

And then it just makes it worse. And, you know, you're going to, it's, yeah, it's tough. But therapy for sure helps. And even just like, I don't know, I get people who ask me, you know, how I can be in certain social situations that I find myself in, like an award show or something that's totally not my world. And I think someone told me that, you know, people just want to talk about themselves anyway. It's so true.

So, you know, if you're in a situation, you don't know what to say, you feel uncomfortable, just ask people about themselves. That is the gospel truth. Yeah. Yes. And usually that will, you know, be an easy way to then get into a conversation where you can try to have some back and forth. But people love to be asked about themselves.

They sure do. It takes all the pressure off you. Exactly. So I got this one a lot. People want to know how to deal with anxiety when they can't figure out the root cause. And I'm sure that's kind of a collective feeling right now. Like we feel anxious and we're not sure why it's the uncertainty, but is it? I don't know.

Yeah. And I think that we can sometimes find a root. and that can be helpful. But sometimes we can't. I mean, I've definitely had those moments. I had one just the other day where I was like, you know, I'm in a panic, and there's nothing in my mind, right? There's nothing that I'm thinking about.

I'm just physically feeling myself in a panic. I think the most important thing in terms of anxiety that we can't find a clear stem to is to make sure we're really giving ourselves space every single day to feel our feelings and think our thoughts. And we live in a society right now that just, you know, there's so many potential distractions. There's so many ways to not sit with our feelings.

You know, there's so many ways to, I mean, we take our phones to the bathroom for goodness sake, you know? God forbid we be alone with our thoughts. Yeah. And I think when we find ourselves in that state of ambiguous anxiety, that is a warning call that we're not giving ourselves enough time with our feelings and our thoughts. And so that probably looks like, it might look like staring at a wall. It might look like meditation or mindfulness practices.

But it's just, I think we need that time to really process. And if we're not having processing time, I think we're much more prone to that kind of ambiguous anxiety. Yeah, at all just kind of built up. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And it's like, it's waiting behind the door. It's like, okay, well, when you put your phone down, I'm still here. Right. Oh, it's not going anywhere. Yeah. And if you go into like an Instagram black hole, then you probably come back with more things to be anxious. Totally. Exactly. Or even worse, Twitter or Facebook. Good Lord. Yeah. How can we maintain all aspects of a healthy relationship if we're feeling anxious all the time? Well, first of all, I think communication is really key.

And I will say this. I don't think that anxiety is a huge barrier to relationship. I think if you can be vulnerable and avoid irritability, usually anxiety is more of an internal struggle, which can be both good and bad, because anxiety sufferers tend to be internalizers. We tend to hold it all in, and then it manifests in physical symptoms,

or more anxiety, but it's someone who's dealt with chronic anxiety, someone for whom anxiety has been a part of their life for a long time. And that can ebb and flow. But it's usually someone who, this is just, it's a low buzz in their life all the time that can turn up and turn down. And it's, you know, it tends to be a constellation of ways of thinking, ways of looking at the world, worry, perseveration, rumination, overthinking, you know, those kinds of feelings, you know, on a weekly if not daily basis. So it's not just a situational. It is a global experience of the world. Right. How can someone control anxiety if they don't see a way out and they're really stuck in Hmm. I always want to push back on that idea of controlling anxiety because I don't know, I don't know that we can control anxiety. And the idea of control control is where we anxious people get in trouble. I think if I could reframe it, I would say we learn to live next to anxiety. We'd learn to see it. We'd learn to see it.

We learn to cope with it. I don't know that we can always control it, but we can definitely learn to minimize it, right? And we can learn to, you know, to personify it a little bit and say, okay, I see you. I see you anxiety. Constant bedfellow. And I'm going to give you a second. And I'm going to look at you and acknowledge you. And I'm going to do my work, you know, whether that's.

mindfulness or cognitive behavioral techniques or DBT techniques. There are a lot of amazing techniques for dealing with anxiety. And so I think that's what it looks like. It's we look at it in the face and then we reach into our toolbox. Yeah, there are a few things that I've heard that really helped me because I was one of those people for sure who if I had anxiety or really any negative emotion, but especially anxiety because it's so uncomfortable, right? I, I would try to change it. Yeah. And I heard what you resist persists.

And that's absolutely true. I think the nature of anxiety and the more you pay attention to it, the worse it feels. Yeah. And then I heard the author Elizabeth Gilbert talking about fear. And anxiety is really just fear, right? And she was talking about like living with fear and how you don't ever really get rid of it. but you put it in the backseat. So like it's always there, but it's just riding backseat instead of, you know, driving the car, so to speak.

Absolutely. And that was really helpful for me. Yeah. Yeah, I like that. I mean, I think there's a lot of imagery. And sometimes even that imagery helps. One image that I sometimes give to clients is that it's in a box in the closet. And sometimes we need to pull the box out and do some work on it.

And then sometimes we put the box back up there, but it's still in the box, you know. Right. But, you know, it may not be in the room, might be in a box. Yep. Do you have tips on how we can focus on the day to day right now rather than focus on all the unknown since there are so many? Yeah. I mean, I think, and we all probably collectively know this, we've got to minimize the

amount of time we spend researching and looking for answers. Now, that's not to say don't look for answers. I mean, I do my daily round of like, how are we doing on vaccines and how are we doing on, you know, how are our states case counts and all that kind of stuff. But to really limit that for yourself. So, okay, I'm going to look at news about COVID for 30 minutes today and then I'm going to shut that off. Like there comes a saturation point where we've moved from looking for information to trying to control outcomes. And when we move to trying to control outcomes, we probably need to shut it off, you know, because it's not actually helpful.

So I think reducing the amount of time that we are, you know, online at all. I think we all need to be getting outside into nature if we can. We need to be trying to engage in relationships in the ways that are safe, doing things that are life affirming, you know, whatever that looks like for us, whether that's, you know, music that you love or playing an instrument or going on a walk or, you know, it's different for everybody. But finding those ways and moments to do something that feels life affirming that reminds you that like even in the midst of all of this unknown, that life is still beautiful, you know, finding what that looks like for each person. Yeah, I love that. Well, before we go, I would love to hear a little more about your book. Yeah. So,

So my book is, it's a memoir about my journey both to becoming a parent and then finding that parenting was really hard. So, I mean, I think like many people, I didn't have a really linear journey to becoming a mom. I had infertility. I had recurrent pregnancy loss. And then I ended up adopting my first child. And that journey was really difficult, too. We adopted him from foster care.

And for the first three years of his life, there was a big question. question mark over whether we would actually be able to adopt him or if he might go to a birth family member. So I talk about all of that in the book. I talk about just being really overwhelmed. And then I had four kids in four years. Two are adopted and two are biological. Two of my kids are black. And so I talk about that experience and just me kind of having to come to terms with my own white privilege and seeing how the world treats my black kids and my white kids differently. So it just, it explores all of that. I think there's, you know, there's some funny moments in the book. I mean, it's definitely a humor memoir. But then I do dive into some more

serious stuff and definitely talk a lot about my anxiety journey in the book as well. Even though it came out during a pandemic, it also came out at a really kind of poignant time right now, right? Given the content and, you know, the Black Lives Matter movement and everything that's going on right now. Yeah. So I'm curious how you have been managing everything as a family, if you don't mind speaking to that. Yeah. My kids right now are, they're all teenagers. And so, you know, we're just, we're doing our best to find our new normal in the middle of all of this.

I mean, as we speak, I have one kid who's doing this like shark tank business thing with Girls Inc. So she's doing like, you know, a virtual camp where they all made a business. And then I have another child who's on a Zoom call with her theater class. You know, so we're just, we're trying to find our new rhythms. We're trying to get outside a lot. We're trying, I'm trying to create a lot of space for us to talk and, you know, give time for everybody to share their feelings and talk through the disappointments. But yeah, I mean, it's really stressful.

And I think that language of letting ourselves off the hook has been really important for us as a family too. You know, just even ending the school year, just saying like, you know, if your grades aren't the best, it's okay. and next year, like we keep saying next year is going to be weird. We just keep saying that, you know, next year is going to be weird. And we're all just setting our expectations of like, we don't know. We don't know what it's going to look like. It's going to be weird. We're going to have to be flexible.

And that it's okay, too, to grieve those losses, right? That it's okay to say, like, I'm really sad that I'm not playing football like I thought I would be right now. Right. Or I'm really sad that this play, was supposed to be in at a big theater is now happening on Zoom, you know, that those losses are important too, you know, that even though, you know, yes, people are having much bigger losses, but like everyone's loss can be acknowledged. Right. I like that you guys are already setting the expectation that it's going to be weird. I feel like that kind of takes some of the uncertainty

out of it. Yeah. Because if you're just acknowledging like, yeah, it's not going to be normal. Yeah. Then then that like kind of alleviates maybe a little bit of that unknown. I hope so. Okay, I have one last question. Yeah. What was it like being interviewed by Terry Gross? I'm dying to know. I saw your Instagram live recently and you were talking about it, but I want to hear directly from you. Well, I love her. I mean, like, I'm like an old school NPR nurse. like, you know, before they were podcasts and it was just on like AM radio, right? So it was like out of body. Like I feel like I was like trying to formulate thoughts.

And then in my head, I'm like, I'm talking to Terry Gross. I'm talking to Terry Gross. But she was lovely. She was really lovely. It was a good experience. Yeah, she's amazing. Yeah. Well, you are amazing as well.

Thank you so, so much. I know this is going to help so many people. And where can everybody find you? Yeah, I'm online on most platforms at Kristen Howerton. And my website is Kristenhowerton.com. Thank you. I hope you enjoyed that episode. If you liked it, and if you like the show in general,

please take a second to rate, review, and subscribe. It goes a long way, and it's actually the best way to support the show. Also, if you want to see more about each episode, you can head over to The Blonde Files podcast on Instagram. I'm always posting about each episode there or over on my personal page at Ariel Lorry.