Well with Arielle Lorre - 77: Dr. Deepika Chopra - The Science Behind Optimism + How To Cultivate It In Tough Times

Episode Date: September 30, 2020

In this episode I’m talking to Dr. Deepika Chopra, known as the “Optimism Doctor.” We discuss the science behind optimism; physical benefits of optimism; how to be more optimistic; optimism vs. toxic positivity; how to be optimistic and still hold space for all emotions; and dealing with anxiety. We also talk about the reality of manifestation versus what people imagine when they hear the word, and how it is a powerful and effective tool when used correctly.   www.helloned.com/BLONDE for 15% off your first one-time order or 20% off your first subscription plus free shipping! www.cleancause.com/BLONDE for 20% off your next purchase! www.branchbasics.com/blondefiles for 15% off their Starter Kit!   Produced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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without your reis-adviseur or sunnycars. The following podcast is a dear media production. Hey, welcome to the Blond Files podcast. I'm your host, Ariel Lori, and I'm here to talk all things wellness. From how to achieve optimal health and well-being to the best beauty tips and everything in between, no topic is off limits.

I know there is so much information out there, so I'm here to help you navigate it all and live your best life. Thanks for listening. Let's get into it. Hi, everybody. Welcome to the show. I loved this conversation. so much. I cannot wait for you guys to hear this one. I am talking to Dr. Deepika Chopra,

aka the optimism doctor, and we are going deep. So we cover what optimism really is, the science behind it, the physical benefits, how to be more optimistic, toxic positivity. Why being optimistic doesn't mean we don't experience other emotions, why it's so important to feel the full range of emotions and just so much more. This was fascinating to me because I tend to be more of a pessimist at my baseline. And I think a lot of people would be surprised by that. But obviously, I do a lot of things to counteract that. So in general, I'm very positive. But it does take work. But I learned a lot in this episode, particularly the difference between practicing optimism and being an optimist or being a pessimist. But anyway, she's amazing. I do have to give you a disclaim.

There was a noise that I didn't hear during the interview, but it picked up on the mic. I think it's bracelets or something like hitting against each other. And it's not overpowering, but it's there. I'm super sensitive to sounds. So it hurts my soul. But I didn't want to re-record because the content of this is just so good. So I hope it's not too much of a nuisance. And with that, enjoy the show. All right. So welcome Dr. Chopra. So excited to talk to you. So excited to be here. This has been in the making for a long time.

It has been, but like everything happens when it's meant to, right? Absolutely. This is what it took. Yeah. So why don't we start by having you tell the listeners about yourself and your training and how you ended up being the optimism doctor? Yeah. So I did not get to this place or do what I'm doing in a linear type of fashion.

I am an LA native. I went to UCLA for undergrad and I ended up working at a punk label, a music label. And then I was an investment banker. And then I worked in public health. And then I found my way back into, this is a very quick version, obviously, into the psychology field. And I have a doctorate in clinical health psychology. And I've been studying the science behind optimism and happiness. and joy and resiliency for the past decade or so now. And really, like, the whole optimism doctor thing, that's always everybody's first question is sort of like, what is an optimism doctor? And it's totally fair because basically I study optimism and I have for a long time. And I was working with clients and this is many years back. And I would just go through like a 20 minute explanation of how the work in which we do together is very different than traditional therapy. And I don't really call it therapy and we look at your strengths and the things you're hopeful about and we set an optimism factor and grow from there. And we talk about things you want and that are going well.

And that's the majority of the session and sort of like the smaller portion of the session is what's not going well, which is very different than some aspects of traditional therapy, et cetera. And this guy, one of my clients at that time was like, wow, okay, so you're basically an optimism doctor. And I was like, oh, that's completely, Right. I know what I'm good at and I know what I'm not good at and I'm not good at being concise. And I was like that person in school that would highlight the whole book. Like my entire book was like bright orange because I just couldn't pick out the like most important things. And so I went with that and I ended up, I was like, that's exactly what I am. That's exactly what I do. That's so much better than my description. And I trademarked it. So it makes sense when people are like, what's an optimism doctor? I haven't heard of one because I am the one in the one. only optimism doctor and I had been doing it for so long but it didn't exist and so I made it exist. It's crazy because I never even really thought about it until you were just talking about your experience with that patient but like so much therapy. I've been in therapy since I was like 12.

I mean everybody was trying to find what was wrong with me growing up. It turns out that I ended up having like a really bad drug and alcohol problem. Then I went into recovery and all those like mental issues were taking care of pretty much. But like it didn't manifest as alcoholism when I was younger, obviously it manifested in these different, just many different ways. But anyway, like, so pretty much all of my experience in therapy has been like looking for what's wrong and looking at the things that are wrong and focusing on that. And it's like, it makes so much sense like, well, the things that you focus on are going to be the things that grow. Yes, absolutely. And of course, there's so much benefit in finding out what is wrong and what the problem is and where that came from.

And I'm not discounting it, but I started to feel like when I was working with patients, like even in my fellowship, you know, using the theoretical perspectives that were available to me in my doctorate program and my master's, I was like, I just feel like there's so much more I can do that I'm not like being given the tools for and not being inspired to do. because yes, the field is so amazing and I am never the person that would say that I wish I did anything differently. Like, I'm so glad I have the training I have

and the foundation I have and I wouldn't have any other way. I have a very strong appetite for science. So I would always go that way. And all the clinical hours, I think in order to work with real humans and emotions, like those hours are so important. Thousands and thousands of supervise real practice hours are important.

But like a lot of the field is antiquated and is not necessarily like up with the times and people have changed and in really fast ways and society has changed. And so even little things like not being able to practice in a state that you're not like licensed in or and like now everything is virtual and you know, it was even then and things like that or new inventive ways to work with people. I was lucky enough that my supervisors at, you know, the institutions that I have my training in at Cedars and UCLA, etc., were so open to the things that I was excited about and even the things that I was, you know, being inventive with. And they were like, sure, they trusted me and they allowed me to utilize some of my tools and the new things I was creating on that patient population, which definitely helped me get more clear about how I wanted to practice. and also gave me a sense of validity and confidence in that. And so I think that in all the research that I've done and the research out there about the brain, you know, we don't know everything about the brain, but we do know quite a bit.

So many things point towards how important it is to focus and spotlight the things that we want more of or we're so prone to point out for ourselves what we need to improve on or what we don't currently have or what isn't going well. I don't think we necessarily need someone to remind us of that, but we're not so great all the time in our everyday lives to point out the strengths that we have and our competence and the things that we're doing really well and things that we want and hope and wish for and the things that we expect could happen. And so I found that in practicing that way over all these years, it's so powerful and makes such a big difference in people's lives and can actually help to change behaviors much quicker. And I would always say, I think it's amazing that you know, you know, a lot of times people that had come to me had been through therapy before and more traditional therapy. And I'm like, I think it's wonderful that you know that this particular thing is bothering you or this behavior is not working out and you know where it came from. Maybe you're telling me that you've spent years in therapy and you've come up with that it came from a relationship you've had with your father or your mother. And I think that's amazing you know that. But right now, what we do know is that it's not working for you. And so then what? I was obsessed with being people, then what? Instead of just sort of echoing what wasn't working and where it came from. It was like, well, it's not working for you now. We got to find a new way. And so it kind of doesn't, it's not, of course it matters,

but it's not the most important thing where it came from and why it doesn't feel good. I have found that one way to feel sustainably good about yourself is by giving back. and another is by drinking a sparkling Yerba Mote tea over some ice in maybe orange ginger or lemon lime. So good. Well, Clean Cause has you covered on both. Okay. So these drinks are organic. They contain 160 milligrams of better caffeine, like smooth sailing pick me up and sustained energy without the jitters.

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And you can get 20% off your next purchase at CleanCause.com using the code blonde. That's B-L-O-N-D-E. Again, that's CleanCause.com with the code blonde, B-L-O-N-D-E. And you can feel good knowing that you are getting an amazing beverage and you are helping somebody else. Hi, new friends. I'm Jackie Schimmel. philanthropist, motivational speaker, glowing wife, animal rights activist, and a shoulder to cry on.

Not really. I'm a crazy bitch, but a hoot and a half. If you haven't listened to my podcast, The Bitch Bible, brace yourself, pour yourself a stiff drink and get ready to laugh your ass off or cry. Make sure you subscribe yourself to the Bitch Bible podcast right now. You're going to effing, love it. Yeah, I'm thinking of like that saying, I don't know where it came from, but like if you're always looking for something, something to fix, you're always going to be broken. You're always going to feel broken. And so I'm curious, like, with that shift in your approach, what the shift was that you saw in your patient populations. So when you start approaching it from this, like, not, you know, from the then what? Mm-hmm. That you see in people that you work with. Well, definitely, one of the things I saw

pretty early on was how much actual measurable positive change was happening at a quicker period of time. So after doing that for a while, I decided, I think that six months is actually a really good time, sort of limit on work together, as long as they're really committed to work and I'm really committed to work in an actionable way. Like the type of practice that I always had previous to the stuff I'm doing now, it was much more action-oriented than sort of just passive. And so I really felt like after a lot of years of doing it, like, hey, I think think that on average we can get some of our goals met in six months. So my practice with people is going to have a six month limit instead of this like idea of years and years and years. And it doesn't

mean that someone's perfect after. We're never perfect. But they should measurably have improved. And I'm really interested in measuring things, not just because I am obsessed with science and I'm a nerd because I am. But because I think even that tool in itself of being able to measure something with someone, it helps someone with their confidence and self-mastery. It's like looking at a list of things or a few goals and being like, I did that. I worked through it and here's the proof. Here's the evidence. And so that in itself was a tool to help people. So I really specialize in practical, everyday self-mastery tools and skills to work with and develop particularly for people that they can really use on their own.

So it's not about creating a sense of dependency on anything else, including me. I don't want that. I'm not the type of, I'm not a clinician anymore. I don't call myself one anymore, but I'm not the type of practitioner that wants that sense of just displaced dependency. Like you're going through some dependency

in one issue of your life and now you're dependent on your therapist. I'm like, I want to empower you. Let's work together. And if I'm doing my job correctly, then you've walked away every session with a tool that you can do on your own that has nothing to do with me

and it's a tool you already had actually in there. You just didn't know it and you haven't sharpened it but we're sharpening. Yeah, like you're working yourself out of a job. That's your goal. Yes, yeah. And like people are always like, oh, that seems counter, like,

don't you want people to stay for it? And I'm like, no, like, I'd rather see more people for a less period of time. Right. And then have them come in for sort of like tuneups. Yeah. I also have always been a visual imagery expert. And so sometimes people would just see me for custom visualization sessions. So now I don't have a very large practice anymore. I still maintain

a very small practice. But so much more of what I do now is, you know, larger workshops and brand partnerships and speaking and writing and podcasts. Because I've sort of one of the reasons that I stepped away from traditional practice, there's quite a few reasons. There's quite a few reasons, but one of them is this idea of wanting to give focus on the real tools and give people a sense of self-mastery. And then another one is sort of this idea that I really wanted the tools and these topics to be really inclusive and accessible. And something like a podcast is such a great way to disseminate the information and the tools and the practices to so many different people from all over in a very accessible and inclusive way. Because I think sometimes some of this stuff,

like wellness, can start to become really exclusive and only available to the very few. And I'm all about, you know, focusing on the types of tools that, again, are already part of you, they're free, there are resources that you already have just by being a human and sort of this idea of trying to get your brain to work for you. Yeah. So there's a lot there that I want to get into. I want to talk about visual imagery and manifestation, self mastery, all of that. But why don't we start kind of at the beginning?

So like optimism. Like what is optimism? And I know my listeners and myself, we love the science and the research and the evidence. So if you want to give that to us, go for it. Like what is it and why is it important? I think a good way, I always used to define optimism straight off the bat, and I almost think a good way to start with the definition of optimism is to kind of define what it's not. So especially right now, optimism is not toxic positivity. And I have so much to say about toxic positivity because it's a real thing and it always has been, but it's rampant right now. And so I think a lot of people have this idea or view that, you know, their imagery of someone that's optimistic is someone that is happy all the time and like skipping through like a field of poppies, like having the best day ever perfection, 365 days of the year, wearing rose-colored glasses

and, you know, never experiencing anything less than ideal. So like everybody's internet persona. Exactly. I was going to be like, that is an Instagram feed or they're from a different planet. I don't know. But basically, that's an inhumane, you know, and we were made as humans to experience the full range of emotions. And actually, by experiencing the full range of emotions, ironically, especially the ones that don't feel so good sometimes is actually the point or the source of the way to actually grow optimism and happiness and hope and resiliency and all these things and grit. But basically, optimism, someone that's an optimist is someone that, sees the roadblocks, they're mindful and aware of the setbacks and the less than ideal situations,

but they see them as temporary and something that they have the ability to overcome. And so it's this real idea of resiliency and this idea of duality in which someone that is practicing optimism is someone that can hold the emotion or the feeling of disappointment or anger or fear or sadness or any one of these emotions and at the same time hold an emotion of hope or this is going to pass or, you know, I'm sure this will get better. I actually have no idea how. You don't have to know how, but I know it will. And that's sort of based on grit and resiliency. And so that's why we have to work through struggle in order to build that. It doesn't just come with not ever working through struggle. And so we need that in order to

build our optimism. And that's kind of where optimism is very different than this idea of just slapping on a positive affirmation when you don't believe it or saying something like good vibes only, which literally makes my skin crawl. That saying in itself is just like, I think that is, I get it, it's good intentions. It sounds cute. It's like very trendy and current. You know, it's bumper sticker. It's tie-dye sweatshirt material. But it's actually really invalidating. And it's really detrimental. And it's one of the best ways to describe top. toxic positivity is to say good vibes only because it's basically saying there is no room for any other vibe other than a good one. And, you know, we have, we experience all the vibes and all the

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with the code blonde files, B-L-O-N-D-E-F-I-L-E-F-I-L-E-S for 15% off their starter kit. Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I think about like the times in my own life where I've had the most growth and transformation and it's all been out of the hard stuff, not out of, I mean, you don't grow spiritually. You don't grow as a person necessarily when things are just comfortable and everything is good vibes and everything is going exactly how you want it. So that's interesting. And like I always like to pair that also with like to me to define optimism, I can't not define it without using the word. resiliency. And I also, like, it's hard for me to define it without the word curiosity. So it's also like going into something with like the curiosity of like, how will I grow from this? I may not know how, but like let me start to think about it like this, you know, I'm going to grow from this and how. And so it's always being open to what, you know, the gifts might be of something that is amazing or also something that doesn't feel so good at the moment and sort of welcoming at all. And so really like being optimistic is getting comfortable in the uncomfortableness of holding two different

emotions at the same time, this duality, you know, of feeling like you can be disappointed, but also hopeful at the same time. And that's like optimism is a muscle. And it's something that we need to practice because we're actually more prone to be pessimistic. And that has a really, that has like an evolutionary standpoint from it. You know, we were long, long, long time ago, our ancestors were running away from saber-toothed tigers. And the ones that ran away and imagined the worst-case scenario, like this tiger is going to eat me. And I'm imagining the worst-case scenario,

they were the ones that got away, and they survived and they passed that on. And it worked for that time. But what we know about this time is we definitely still have predators. They look a little differently now. But we know that in order to really thrive in today's world, we don't thrive by constantly imagining the worst-case scenarios at all times. We also don't drive by only being able to see the best case scenarios at all

time and never, you know, giving light to worry because actually things like anxiety and worry, of course, on a continuum. But, you know, sometimes a bit of anxiety and worry and stress is actually positive and helps you make better decisions. So if somebody is listening and they're like, that sounds great, but I'm just a pessimist. Like I can't see the good and every, I can't see how a situation might be an opportunity for growth if it's something that's really painful or I can't have that duality. What are some good places for people to start to start cultivating or start practicing being more optimistic and kind of like flexing that muscle a little bit? So definitely one of the best ways to start and I think we can all start in some shape or form here is self-compassion.

So in sort of what people might think contrary to what most people would think when you have a pessimistic view or a negative emotion or anxiety or you're full of worry or fear or any one of these things, being compassionate with yourself and normalizing it for yourself. And it's like that idea again of validating how you feel. And we do know that the only way to work through an emotion and this is, you know, research proves it is to actually lean into it and go through it and to fit within it and to work through it. There's no way anywhere that shows that the best way to go through a negative emotion is to just sweep it under a rub. That's not how emotions work. That's not how we work. We're smarter than that. The brains are smarter than that. But, you know, I always like to tell people like a really like a better way than toxic positivity sort of for someone, like when they're going through that and they can't see it, instead of someone saying to them like, just be positive. like that feels very, I would almost argue that person that's listening is probably like frustrated because they've probably gone through that so much where they've been like, I can't get there.

And someone has just kind of invalidated them off the bat and said, just be positive. Just smile. I would want them to tell themselves or hopefully they were around someone that was a little more aware of this. And to say like, it's okay if you haven't found the silver lining yet. Like we have time to make sense of it. You know, something even like just compassionate, recognizing where you're at, but like knowing that there's time, there's time to actually get there. If you don't see it yet, that's okay. All you have to know is that it's out there and you will. And think about another really great way is to think about

your own competence and strength. So however many years you are at the moment, you're here. You've worked through struggles. Like nobody has had a perfect life. It doesn't exist. So you've worked through struggle. Some of them might have been easier than others. Maybe some of them you're still working through. But like there's some solace in knowing that. Like the struggles that you've been through, however big or small, you've worked through a lot of them. And so that can give you some reassurance that, again, you may not know how you're working through this current one, but it's probably pretty likely that you will be able to because you've done it before. Right. What are some of the physical, the physical and the mental? I mean, we're kind of talking about the mental. What are some of the

physical benefits of optimism and having this way of thinking? Oh yeah. There are so many, but mostly someone that's optimistic and experiences more real, authentic, positive mood. They're sick less. They bounce back from respiratory illnesses quicker. They have less heart disease.

They live longer and not just living longer in terms of wrapping up the ages, but they actually live a more thriving and fulfilled life longer. they have better social relationships, they have more support. Happy people actually, happiness is contagious and research proves it. So happier people bond together with happier people. And the more you surround yourself with happy people, it's more likely that you in turn are happier. Happiness actually was studied. They actually studied the idea of happiness is contagious. And they found, research found that happiness is up to three degrees of separation, like contagious. within a social network. So that was pretty cool. Like we all kind of had known that and said,

happiness is contagious, but like science actually confirms it. Right. So it's interesting. But there are so many benefits, positive benefits physically and emotionally. You achieve more productivity when you're optimistic. You definitely get more things that you want out of life. So the whole manifestation piece. But it's not just because, it, you know, you asked for it somewhere out there while sitting on a beautiful beach towel on, you know, the west side of L.A. And then the universe dropped it into your lab. It's because you actually did work for it. And our brain really sets forth the executive functioning part of our brain. Like it sets on fire and starts to come up with actual ways that you can achieve this goal

if it actually believes that you can have it. So your expectation has to be able to. You can have it. So your expectation has to match your want. And that's like the piece of where I call evidence-based manifestation. A lot of people are focused on the want. And that's great. It's really good to know what you want. It's good to know what you want. Very detailed, specific, like, visualize it, make the vision boards.

But unless what you expect to happen matches what you want, it's probably very unlikely that you are going to make happen what you want. Right. We are living in challenging times right now. and especially this year, it just feels like as the year goes on, there is more and more to be anxious about. You know that I love to talk about ways to manage this, and something I have found to be really helpful is Ned CBD. So I've mentioned here before this kind of physical fighter flight response that I get randomly, and it seems to come out of nowhere, and that, of course,

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or 20% off your first subscription order plus free shipping. I think a lot of people hear the word manifestation, and if it's not like a certain subset of the population, that's into wellness and all that. They check out, right? It sounds. Oh my gosh. I have never, yeah,

I've never seen a word in recent times that is so polarizing. And like, especially here, I think we're over it. Right. And like I just, you say that word and you just see the eye rolls happen. and I get it because it's like, if that's how you're looking at it, I totally understand there's like so many people out there that promise you that if you just ask for something, you know, the universe is going to drop that shit in your lap so fast

and it's just going to appear before your very eyes and it's like magically going to be there. And I'm a spiritual person and I definitely believe in the law of attraction and thought that like from a scientific point of view, I understand how that happens. and it is back to what you think about, what your brain has a limited attentional capacity. So it can't think about everything all the time.

But if you learn how to choose and intentionally put into your brain what you want to think about, first of all, that's amazing and it can be done. It takes hard work. It's not going to drop into your lap. It's a lifestyle shift and it's mental training, basically. Like you go to the gym, physical training. It's mental training.

but like the more you're able to do that you know you choose what you think because the more you think about is what your brain is going to seek out to you know outside in the world to keep getting to keep proving itself correct because our brains love being correct so if you already think something yes exactly and I used to use that this example of like it's just because I'm from LA so obviously everything has to do with cars and driving but like you know you know when I got my first car whatever it is or you get a new car, all of a sudden you're on the 405 and like every single person has the car you have. You're like, what the heck? Everybody has the same car. It's not because, you know, someone doing this experiment paid them to all be there. They were always there. You just never noticed

them. But now your brain is attuned to that specific car and model and even color and you will see it everywhere. And that's exactly like the illustrated point of how this all works. Right. Do you meditate? I do. I do meditate, but I meditate on my terms. What are your terms? So I am, I'm a person that definitely thinks a lot. My mind is constantly going, which puts me in a place of, so, okay, I'm optimistic in a lot of different ways. I'm an optimism doctor, but I'm not the most optimistic person. And I'm the first person to be like, listen, I might be an expert in this. And I know all the research, and I surely know how to help other people. I know I'm really good at my job,

but I'm not the most optimistic person. I'm a human after all, and I'm on this journey just like everyone else, and I'm so transparent about my journey and the things that I struggle with and where in the optimism world, I struggle. For me, it's health stuff. Medical and health stuff is my, like, Achilles heel.

I am more neurotic than Woody Allen when it comes to, like, health stuff. I'm a hypochondriac. And, like, a lot of times being that way has actually saved my life. I have to say, like, I'm the person that something happens. I go to the doctor. I don't just, like, let it go.

And, you know, whether it's self-silling prophecy or not or what came before, but a lot of weird stuff has happened to me. Like, you know, even when I was pregnant, everything that was the rare weird stuff, like, happened to me. But having said that, I am the type of person that think a lot. And so I am prone to sort of, like, if I was, had to go one way, like, I'm prone to more anxiety. I don't suffer from an anxiety disorder.

I don't meet the criteria for that or anything, but definitely various times in my life, including right now during the pandemic. It's really tipped and elevated. And for me, I was just giving this example earlier today on a different interview is I like to think of it as sort of like having a big bag.

And then you realize like, oh my gosh, my bag is so full. It's so full of stuff. And so you think, I better just get a bigger bag. So you get a bigger bag and you're thinking you'll have more space, but I'm the type of person that will just fill more stuff into my bag because I have the space. So the same thing with like someone tells me to just clear your mind and meditate,

meditative space. I'm like, wow, my mind is so clear now. It's got so much space to just think everything. And so I like to practice a type of meditation that is more so like following a very specific prompt that uses enough attentional capacity. So for me, uses enough attentional capacity for my brain to not think because I'm actually thinking so clearly about one thing. Right. So it's almost like a healthy distraction. And to me, that's meditated. And to a lot of people it is. And it's a popular way of meditating that I definitely inspire my clients to use because

I find that it works really well for them too. But some of the ways in which I do that, sometimes it's breath and a lot of people that that's enough some people they need more than that for me it's visual imagery so going through an entire visualization doing different things in breath doing like a body mind sort of relaxation meditation where I'm actually like stressing certain muscle groups and then really like releasing them and then also just like certain things are very meditative to me you know certain physical activities or just giving myself time and space to be alone and to go within. And sometimes even it's listening to something or listening to a piece of music, taking a bath, getting a massage. But mainly there's this one really great intervention that I used to use as a grad student at UCLA

for a population of people that I would see, I would see people right before they went into surgery. and I'd get to do visualization with them and teach them an intervention, like a short little intervention to help with their anticipatory anxiety. And I use that all the time on myself. And now I use it like with so many people that I work with and with large companies. And it's so simple. And all it is, again, is this very sort of elementary notion of distracting your brain to think about something you want it to think about using all the attentional capacity so your brain can't think about anything else. And it's sort of used as a reset button. So it's like the adult version of I spy. You're just in an environment on your own. You're going around the room or wherever you are

and you're listing off out loud. It's got to be out loud. Everything that you see, trying not to make a story of it, just labeling it, you know, going around the room and saying everything that you see. And your brain's going to want to make a story. And, you know, I remember I see this picture frame and, you know, it's from when I was a kid and then you're like, I wonder, you know, I remember this memory of and you say, okay, I know our brain's going there, but let's just move on and say, I see the brown chair. I see like the window. I see a cream-colored sofa. I see, you know, I see the newspaper. And you just keep going around and doing it for 30 seconds minimum is really helpful. It regulates you, it grounds you. And you've done. And you've done,

enough for your brain to think about something by visualizing something, labeling what it is, and then saying out loud what it is that your brain really can't think about the other thing or the worry. And so to me, that's meditative as well. So yeah, it's really, and then the other way that I use meditation is I dance. I'm not a dancer like by any means. And I actually, I actually should go back on that because I try to teach my clients not to say what they're not. That's like an apology. I'm not a professional dancer and I'm not saying I'm really good at it, but I am a dancer because I like dancing and I think to some degree, we're all dancers and we're all singers and we're all artists, et cetera. But one of the best ways to shift energy for me, to increase positive mood,

to get out of my head, to go within myself is to just be moved by music, literally and figuratively. And so lately my anxiety has definitely been on the higher side due to everything we're going through and everything happening in the world. And then also just I work full time. And so does my husband. And we have a toddler. And we have no child care since COVID hit. So it's just like it's a lot physically and mentally. And so I found that I wake up, I do this thing. I call it wake up and dance. And the first thing I do when I wake up before I talk to anybody, before I brush my teeth, before I change out of my pajamas, I turn on music. I turn on music. and I just dance. And it can be for 10 seconds, 20 seconds, two full songs,

like whatever I can get, it helps me. And a lot of research within that shows that movement was one of the things I always talk about in my cultivating optimism workshops. Like moving in any way is helpful. It increases mood. It decreases stress. It's very helpful.

And then being moved by music, another great way that research shows can improve mood. And then, you know, just that feeling of being, free and and sort of shaking it out. There's so many, and then the fact that I do it in the morning. So research also shows that how your mood is in the first of the day often impacts the mood for the remainder of the day. So if you're going to pick a time of the day to do,

if you have one time of the day you could pick to do a positive ritual, anything that makes you feel good and shifts your mood, I would suggest doing it in the morning. I was just going to ask you about that because, I mean, morning routines are very like trendy and hot right now. I personally don't really get it. I'm like, I don't care what so-and-so does in the morning. Yes.

But I was curious if there was like a timing aspect to that. A lot of those feel a little inauthentic. And I've been asked to do a lot of them on like takeovers and stuff. And I feel like it just feels like, first of all, filling up an entire takeover with your morning routine. Like I would love if like I could have that morning time for that morning routine every day. Right. But like, I always say that, you know, you can pick like two or three things or even just one.

My morning routines that are like non-negotiable, my rituals that I do in the morning are so short that I, and they're all things I can do from anywhere that I am. They don't take time. So if my son wakes up earlier than expected or I have an early morning phone call, like it doesn't disrupt me from doing them. And there are three of them. It's the wake up and dance. And even if I dance for five seconds or ten seconds. seconds, that's okay. I have said the same mantra while I washed my face since I was seven. Not because I thought it was a ritual or I knew about it, but my sister taught it to me. And I would just say it in my mind at first.

Like I went through years of saying it in my mind while I washed my face or while I took a shower. Before I really realized it was actually like a quote unquote ritual and it made me feel really good. And so now I say it out loud. But I still do that, done it since I was seven. And then I always pick one of my things that are looking up optimism cards from my deck. I just, I do those three things every single morning. And sometimes the whole, all of it takes less than a minute. So, you know, I, you can't sure. It would be nice if every morning I could make myself my macho latte or, you know, do the full, like, masking or have some time to meditate, like more fully and all those things that are all tools I use. But like, I'm going to be real. Like I can't do those every morning. They're not part of

my die-hard, like, morning ritual, these three things are. And they can be done, I can make them longer or they can be done in like a minute, all of them. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like some of the morning routine, they're very indulgent. And I mean, for me, like, I think I would probably consider myself more on the pessimistic side. Like, it's just my, that's my baseline. But in recovery, like, I had to learn these new tools. Otherwise, I was going to be miserable all the time. And so I have like a few things again like you it takes probably a minute like I do I do transcendental meditation so that's 15 20 minutes but I I do it no matter what like I will wake up early or if I have to whatever because of like how profound yeah has been in my life

but the other things like I write five things I'm grateful for I do like a little reading and like I pray I'm not religious but I pray right and I was thinking about what we were talking about with manifestation earlier and it reminded me of this thing in recovery that people talk about and it's about like kind of man I guess you could call it manifestation but like prayer like if I'm praying for something again like not religious but just praying to the universe or whatever like I still have to do the action like I learned that there are two parts to that and there was a phrase that someone said that like God can't drive a parked car well like the universe can't drive a parked car. Like you have to take the actions to support whatever it is that you want to happen,

right? So I just thought about that. Absolutely. And that's like this whole idea of accepting responsibility for the things that go well and also the things that don't go so well. And action is so important. And not just like it's important to make, you know, when you want something or you want to manifest it to understand that yes, like it is so important that it takes steps. It's not just again, something that's going to drop into your lap. And people get really frustrated with that because I think they're sort of promised or in some way they think someone told them it was going to drop into their laugh if they just like thought about it.

And so I think what's so important and interesting about that is thank goodness it takes action because like those are things that you created. And I think we often forget that and we're so focused on the want of it or how badly we want something. And then how many of us spend that same amount of time and energy celebrating something that we work really hard for and that we currently have? Like the two don't go. Like we're just ready. We wanted it so badly. Even if we wanted it for a year. And even we worked so hard for it. And then we got it. And we're just like, what can I want next? And so it's so important to also take time and space and energy to just celebrate yourself. And in all the work that I do with the science behind,

increasing mood and optimism and resiliency and happiness, all this. Like there's so much power from a science-based perspective of celebrating your strengths and your small wins and your big wins. And we just don't do that. And even good feelings, we tend to just sort of skip right through something that feels good or something great that's going on. And I really urge people to take the time and moment, spend one more minute if you can in a good feeling every single time.

increase it by one minute, sit in it for one minute. How does this feel? This feels so good. Why does it feel so good? Where in my body does this emotional feeling feel good? What is, you know, what is the feeling like the emotion around it? What does it look like? What does it sound like? What does it smell like? You can live your happiness more because I think we tend to just skip through those and we spend a lot of focus and time and energy on the things that don't feel good. And so it's it's not that I say to not feel those either. It's just we've created this really big imbalance. Right. Yeah, it's so true. And yeah, I mean, I'm just thinking about my own experience, but it's like we're so focused on getting the next thing. We keep kicking the ball down the field and it's just the goal post keeps moving and it's never about the process. It's

always about the outcome and it never feels good for more than eight seconds and then you're on to the next thing. So interesting. I like that idea of like spending more time there and really like feeling it. And not feeling that that's indulgent. Like it's actually, it's survival. It's positive survival. It's how you build, you know, the muscle of being able to experience more happiness and optimism and growth. And it's how you actually rewire your brain. It's how you actually change your mindset and your lifestyle, not just like, you know, reciting a blanket statement affirmation and then moving on.

Like if you really want to change the way your brain fires, then like you have to do that work. And part of the work is like getting more comfortable. in experiencing the positive things in your life. We just, on the whole, humans, like, we're just not that great at that. And that's okay. We can get better at it, but it takes work. Yeah, an awareness. Yes.

Well, can you tell everybody about things are looking up and you have a new podcast out and where they can find you and all of that? Yes, so things are looking up. Things are looking up is actually my brand. I started it about a year ago. And the first product is this. things are looking up, optimism, deck of cards, and I have to get you on. Each deck has 52 cards in them. And it's literally just based on my practice and my tips, tricks, and tools over the past

decade. And so each card has a prompt or suggestion that is evidence science based or holistic. And they actually tell you what to do. So they are an actionable item. They tell you what to do and you carry it out, whether you do them every day or you pick a card when you most need it, whatever it is. Most of them you can do in less than 30 seconds. There's only some cards that have a prompt that are a tiny bit longer. And the reason, and even like the colors on them, and I know you guys can't see it, but the colors on them and the abstract art, there's also like a science-based reasoning that each of them are mindfully created in this way because everything about the card deck is meant to increase mood and resiliency and optimism. Even from here, they're very, like, they're just so

appealing, uplifting. Thank you. You're definitely going to get a deck. So basically the reason that I created them was I would be speaking to a large, you know, group of people. And then at the end, when people would be like, well, how can I do more? How can I work with you? And it was starting to get, like, the position that I was in was starting to be like sort of opposite than why I started to do what I do, if that makes sense. Like I had a nine month wait list for a session. And it obviously wasn't. very inexpensive. And so this whole idea of me wanting to make these tips and tools accessible and inclusive and really easy to get, I was like doing the opposite. Like it was an expensive session that was nine months out. Like that's ridiculous. And and so I was like, what can I like,

and the whole idea of not wanting someone to have to depend or wait for like a session with me. So that's where the deck of cards came from. The reason that they're, they're not a book and there will be a book coming out soon. But the reason that this is not a book and it's very intentionally a deck of cards is for a lot of reasons. But one is just because one of the tools is obviously creating more rituals. And this is like a great way to create a ritual in your everyday life is pulling a card. The second thing is I think we get really pressured when there's a book because if you don't have enough time to make enough like headway in a book, you don't pick it up because you're like, if I only have time to read one page, what's the point? So you really have to set aside time to be like,

I want to do some reading. And then they're also pressured to kind of go from cover to cover, whereas with the deck of cards, you have 20 seconds, you'll pick a card. And it doesn't matter which card you pick. Actually, that's kind of the fun of it.

And it always seems to be the card you need. So that's the deck of cards. They're called Things Are Looking Up, and they're available at things are looking up.com. You can also find them and some more optimistic content on my Instagram at Dr. Deepika Chopra, or the card's Instagram is all things are looking up. And then, yeah, I just launched a podcast a couple weeks ago with Dear Media.

And it's called Looking Up with Dr. Deepika Chopra. And I'm super excited about it because it's a total new platform and media for me. But it's been so amazing because every, like, interview is just blowing my mind. It's like I've loved going to school my whole life. It's probably why I signed up to do a master's and a doctorate. And I just wish I could be in school again. kind of feel like my podcast is me getting to be in school again, but learning from like literally the only people I want to learn from. Right. And so, you know, it's everything we're talking about.

It's dispelling what optimism is not and highlighting what it is and chucking out toxic positivity and perfection and, you know, listening to people. I know you said you listened to the Metal World Peace episode, which was so amazing and powerful. And I was like, was so honored to get to talk to him. He's so inspiring to me. But it's real raw, human, transparent storytelling about resiliency. And at the same time, you know, I get to interview other trailblazing experts in the fields of like neuroscience and behavioral science and health and really hear from the people that are doing the research. And so it's a nice blend between the two and every episode always leaves people with real, actionable, practical tools that they can actually start changing their life like that day.

Yeah, it's my new favorite. I'm going to binge it. I'm excited. I'm excited for you too. They come out, a new episode comes out every Monday. It's sort of your Monday morning dose of optimism. I love it. Great timing. Well, thank you so much for coming on. I'm so glad we finally got to do this. Yes, me too. And yeah, everybody go follow, go subscribe, go buy the cards, do all the things. Thanks. I'll see you soon. Yes. Bye. episode. If you liked it, and if you like the show in general, please take a second to rate, review, and subscribe. It goes a long way, and it's actually the best way to support the show. Also, if you want to see more about each episode, you can head over to The Blond Files podcast

on Instagram. I'm always posting about each episode there or over on my personal page at Ariel Lorry.