Well with Arielle Lorre - 87: Using Stoicism to Stay Calm Amid Chaos, Find Purpose + Achieve Sustainable Happiness with Ryan Holiday

Episode Date: December 9, 2020

In this episode I am talking to Ryan Holiday - New York Times Bestselling Author whose books include The Daily Stoic, Stillness is the Key, The Obstacle is the Way, and Ego is the Enemy - about how to use Stoicism to enhance our lives in today’s modern world. We discuss what exactly Stoicism is, how he practices it and how it’s benefitted him; how to experience adversity in a virtuous way and use it to our advantage; how to persist when we keep encountering obstacles; confidence vs. ego; tips on staying present and how to avoid being controlled by external stimuli; and so much more. This might be my favorite episode to date!   www.BluBlox.com/BLONDE for 15% off your order plus Free Shipping Worldwide www.KinEuphorics.com/BLONDEFILES for 15% off plus Free Shipping www.Headspace.com/BLONDE for a Free 1-Month trial   Produced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Auto-hue with Sunny Cars feels as if the children Not me's high. Kiselstramble. Zand-Worda. Actis-verkeer, verdwine, vacancy can chaotic

be chaotic. But who zorgloose an auto-hurt says, Uno-dos, no stress. No, no-verwachted costs, always full-ledged. So, would auto-huees-on-sor-sondergare.

Go to your re-sadviseur or sunnycars. The following podcast is a dear media production. Hey, welcome to the Blond Files podcast. I'm your host, Ariel Lori, and I'm here to talk all things wellness. From how to achieve optimal health and well-being to the best beauty tips and everything in between, no topic is off limits. I know there is so much information out there, so I'm here to help you navigate it all

and live your best life. Thanks for listening. Let's get into it. Welcome to the show. I probably shouldn't do this, but it's my show. and I'm just going to come out and say it. This is my favorite episode to date. That's right.

Sorry, Chuck. But I just love this conversation with my guest, Ryan Holiday, so much. Ryan is a New York Times bestselling author of 10 books, and he's working on another one now. His books have sold more than 2 million copies in 30 languages and have a following among NFL coaches, world-class athletes, TV personalities, political leaders, and others. including influencers and social media people around the world. I have been interested in stoicism for years, thanks to his book The Daily Stoic, which was basically my gateway drug into the world of ancient philosophy.

And I've since read his other books, including ego is the enemy, stillness is the key, and the obstacle is the way, as well as other books on philosophy, like Marcus Aurelius Meditations. I'm currently reading the Hayes translation based on his recommendation, how to think like a Roman emperor and a few more. So those are just some if you guys are interested in learning more about this after the conversation.

If you're thinking philosophy, boring, I'm telling you this wisdom can benefit us all. Okay, Ryan breaks it down to be really palatable and applicable to our modern lives. We talk about using stoicism, in his words, as a framework for responding to the adversity to daily life. I think we all need that right now. We talk about using adversity to our advantage and how to deal with the current situation we're in in 2020. We talk about a live time versus dead time. We talk about how to persist through obstacles. We talk being present and stillness, being controlled by technology versus being in control.

We talk about ego versus confidence and external validation. It's just all super fascinating. And at the end, Ryan takes listener questions. So make sure you stay tuned for that and enjoy the episode. Welcome, Ryan. Thank you so much for coming on the show. It's an honor. So excited to chat. I've been reading your books for years. I started with the Daily Stoic. That was like my gateway drug. And they're part of my morning routine. So really excited to talk. And I know my office audience is really excited to hear from you. So to start out, I'd love to hear just how you became interested in stoicism and philosophy. Yeah, I don't think I was looking for it exactly,

but in another sense, I think I was looking for it, philosophy being what the ancients call the guide to the good life. So I was 19 or 20 years old, and I was at a conference, and I remember asking the speaker for a book recommendation, and he recommended Epictetus, one of the early Stoics. And that just sort of set me on this path. I remember I ended up buying Marcus Aurelius on Amazon, probably the most famous of the Stoics. And I remember reading it at the kitchen table of my college apartment, and it just sort of hitting me like everything that I needed and wanted in that moment. I mean, I can sort of go into what Stoicism is, but I think, I think, I think, Just like somebody talking to you about life and how to live life well from, you know,

this sort of timelessness of it being written 2,000 years ago was just exactly what I needed. Why do you think you needed it? I don't know. I mean, I think if you're if you're not a religious person, if you're not, you know, part of some grand family tradition, if you, you know, aren't in, you know, in the armed forces, there's kind of a lack of direction. I feel like generationally there's just a, it's like nobody wants to tell anyone how they should be living

because that feels very judgmental, which I get. Like it makes sense. I think it comes from a good place. But there's kind of a lack of like real guidance on what we should and shouldn't be doing how to find and sustain happiness, how to find meaning and purpose in our lives.

There just really isn't that. I mean, I remember as I read the Stoics for the first time, I was in a class in philosophy called Philosophy 101, the meaning of life. And we weren't reading anything like what the Stoics are talking about. So, you know, I feel like, you know, you go to college and this is supposed to be this, you know, place to find yourself. And there is an element of that,

but it's much more like find out what kind of career you want to have. It's not really any actual exploration of like, you know, who you should be as a person. I can totally relate to that because I had to become a raging drug addict and alcoholic to then recover and find purpose and like structure. And, you know, it was interesting. Like when I started reading about stoicism, I noticed a lot of parallels, right? Like I think certain programs have kind of borrowed from ancient philosophy, like these concepts of like radical acceptance and not placing judgment on situations and recognizing what we can control and what we can't. But I, you know, I see people who have, who kind of adopt these ways of thinking and who find ways to be sustainably happy and all of that without being in recovery. And I'm like, I don't know how you do it. Well, no, the recovery stuff is so fascinating because, and I've dabbled in it a little bit myself,

I'm fortunate that I haven't had to go too far down that road. But it's like when you read a lot of it, you're like, it's so basic. You're like, how did nobody tell me this when I was like 11 years old and it could have made a difference, you know, like even something that's beautiful as the serenity prayer, which is sort of rooted in a very stoic concept of this sort of the dichotomy of control, what's up to us, what's not up to us. It's like, why didn't my grandparents tell me about this? Like, why didn't my parents tell me about this? How was this not, like, why did we repeat the pledge of allegiance every morning in school

and not the serenity prayer? Like, what would have actually made a better difference as far as growing up to be responsible adults and good citizens, ironically? And so there's just a, there's a common sense. to all of it. And ironically, it's not common at all. Right. Yeah, that's so true. So when you started learning about stoicism and you had this kind of moment, like, I don't know if it was an aha moment, but you found this thing that you were kind of looking for. What did you start incorporating into your life? Like how did you start changing your life and what effects did that have?

Yeah. The interesting thing about stoicism is like unlike, say, Zen Buddhism, which, you know, has some very clear things you're supposed to do, whether that's meditation or whatever, or even 12 step, which is like go to meetings, follow these 12 steps, right? Stoicism is a bit vaguer than that, and it's a bit, it's actually something I've sort of tried to do in my writing, which is take these ideas, which I think are really brilliant and really helpful, and try to connect them to things that people are supposed to actually do. So I would say first it was just a a journey of reading for me. I just read all these, you know, different philosophers. I tried to, you know, go down all the different rabbit holes that were connected to it. And, and then as I've done

my writing, I've tried to, as I was saying, sort of try to connect these to like real stories or illustrations of the ideas. But I think at the core of its doicism is, so if in Buddhism we do actual meditations. It's interesting to think that Marcus Aurelius' meditation is a copy of it. The Greek title of that book just translates as to himself. So it's really kind of an ongoing conversation with himself. And I think that's what Stoicism is. It's reading and talking and thinking and exploring the ideas not just once in like the epiphany is the beginning of it. that's part of it. But like what's interesting to me is that, you know, I was reading meditations before bed last night, a book that I've now, you know, spent more than a decade and a half or so

with. And I'm still getting stuff out of it. So it's kind of, it's kind of, again, to bring this back to 12 steps. It's a thing you do over and over again as opposed to like a philosophy degree, which might be something that you go and get one time. I want to tell you about one of our new sponsors who I know you guys will love. I know some of you are sober, you're sober curious, or just health conscious, and interested in alcohol-free ways to socialize or unwind. So take it from me. You've got to try kin euphorics. Can euphorics are alcohol-free, adaptogen and neutropics-boasted beverages formulated to help you relax, curb stress, elevate cognitive function, including clarity, memory, and creativity and just have a good time without the booze or the hangover. This time of year looks a little

different than yours in the past, but it's still the holidays. And these drinks are such a fun way to be festive and get in the spirit, whether you're unwinding after a long day, maybe by the Christmas tree, that would be me, or hanging out with a friend or a loved one. So, Ken Euphorix designed three mood-defining drinks for every occasion. They have the high road. This one has intercourse. This one has innerbacious flavor, a feeling of a lifted mind and relaxed body. It's great for social hour. It's great for after a long day. You just add a splash of club soda or tonic with a squeeze of lime. It's perfect. So good when I'm looking for a way to kick back without something mind altering, you know. And then there's my favorite, the kin sprits. This is a sparkling apparel like

brain boost without the crash or the hangover. I, love having one of these around like 4 p.m. to beat my afternoon slump and kind of shift from work into relaxation play mode. And then they also have the dream light. So this is a booze free nightcap. It tastes like in Amaro. Melt's away stress. So they've totally got something for everybody. I know you guys will love these. And they have worked out a special deal for my listeners. you can get 15% off plus free shipping on your order. All you have to do is go to can euphorix.com slash blonde files or use the code blonde files at checkout to claim this deal.

So again, that's kinuphorix.com, K-I-N-E-U-P-H-O-R-I-C-S dot com slash blonde files, B-L-O-N-D-E-F-I-L-E-F-I-E-S for 15% off plus free shipping. Hi, I'm Elizabeth Cots. And I'm Stephanie Sambari, and we are the host of That So Retrograde. Part of us? For the past 200 and some episodes, we've been trying to figure out what the hell wellness is. We have inspiring and fun conversations with all types of amazing people, from healers to

comedians to whatever's in between. We're five years in, but we're just getting started. So hop on board every Thursday to join the party en route to living your best life. And don't forget your cannabis. Or to check us out on Instagram at retrograde. That's right. Bye. See you there. I am actually reading the Hayes translation. I think I got that recommendation from you somewhere in some interview. But yeah, I mean, I feel that same way with certain literature relating to recovery and with, I mean, even daily stoic. So, you know,

I journal in it and I look back on last year or the year before and I'm like, wow, like you can see where you were then and how you've changed now and how certain perspectives or attitudes have changed and it takes on a completely different meaning. And, you know, one of the main questions that I got from my audience is like, what is stoicism and how can I be stoic? Like, what do I do? Well, so to go back to what you were just saying, though, because I think it's really important, there's actually a thing in meditations that Mark Serius is talking about where he talks about how we can't step in the same river twice, which I think is this beautiful idea that's been part of my practice, the practice of reading and rereading things. I have like a book, these are the books behind me, but these are

books that I've really loved. And I think at this point I've read almost all of them at least two or more times. And there's something to reading something over and over again that allows it to really sort of seep into your soul. I think a lot of times we just like, we want to get the gist of something. Like, oh, here's someone go like, oh, like I haven't read that, but I did listen to the author on a podcast or something, which I'm not saying there's not value in clearly, but like, you really have to engage with the material and then you also have to evolve with it over time. Like when I read the Great Gatsby at 15, that was, it was a very different book than the book I read when I read it at 25. And then when I reread it last year in my 30s, it was different still.

Like your change, even though the text is the same, what you get out of it is fundamentally different. And that's like a really cool part of it. So it's funny, like if you had asked me what stoicism was when I was 25 years old, I probably would have said, oh, it's a philosophy about, you know, being resilient and being more efficient in your life. Like what I was really getting out of it then was a lot of the sort of productivity benefits, right? The like the, like how to be better at whatever you're doing part.

And there's a huge part of it. And then as I've gotten older, I've gotten older. and different things out of in my definition is changed. But I think maybe a quick definition is like a Stoic believes they don't control the world around us. We control how we respond to the world around us. But that begs the question, well, how do you respond? The Stoics sort of claim that there's four virtues, courage, justice, wisdom, and temperance or moderation or self-discipline. So I think what the Stoic is saying is that like life is going to throw all sorts of crap at you. And it's going to, a lot of that's going to be stuff that you don't want, that was the exact opposite of what you want,

2020 being a great example of that, like day in and day out. But it's still an opportunity to react with those four virtues. Sometimes a situation calls for courage. Sometimes it requires self-discipline. Sometimes it requires wisdom. Sometimes it requires justice. Sometimes it requires some combination of all of the above. But I think what stoicism is is about responding to life with excellence. And that's what virtue means. It's not just like being great, but it's that sort of moral excellence as well. So I don't know if that's a, definition. How to actually do it? That's the tricky part. And that's what one sort of tries to to cobble together over a lifetime. Yeah, I'm curious how you kind of adopted it,

how it's evolved with you, and how initially maybe like if you experienced a stressor or something that, you know, some challenge, how did you learn to like accommodate that and react in a more stoic way, I guess? Well, so I wrote this book, the first book I wrote about stoicism was called The Obstacles of the Way.

And so a lot of people go, well, so what obstacle did you overcome in your life? Which I'm interested in because it's kind of a revealing question, right? Like, we tend to think that adversity is like a one-time thing. Like, so actually, the original subtitle of The Obstacle is the Way was the art of turning adversity to advantage. But in the U.S., the publisher asked that I change it because they felt like adversity was kind of this loaded term that, again, people,

people tend to think is like, oh, my adversity is that I was orphaned as a child, or my adversity is that I'm a minority, or that my adversity is that I only have one leg, right? Like some sort of like singular event that shaped you into who you are. In the UK, that's actually the subtitle that we went with because I think they had a different understanding of what that word meant. In the U.S., we went with trials. I think it's the art of turning trials into triumph. And I think that I think trials is a better way to think about it because in terms of the sort of culture that we're in, we think of obstacles as this one-time thing when in reality, everyone wakes up every day and life is not the way that they wanted to be.

Even just like, oh, hey, I was trying to get to work at 8 o'clock and there was a huge accident and I missed my 8.30 meeting because of traffic, right? What I think stoicism is is not this like, hey, stoicism will help you if you're ever wrongly imprisoned and you have to spend 10 years in jail for a crime you didn't commit. I mean, certainly there's a whole bunch in stoicism that will help you. But I also want people to realize that stoicism is there if, you know, your parents just didn't get along or if, you know, you have trouble with an addiction or if, you know, you just don't like your job, right? Right. Like what to me, stoicism is, is this framework for responding to adversity of daily life. And that's kind of how I try to use it. And I think if we try to zoom in and we just think about like, hey, Murphy's Law, what can't go wrong will, things are always going wrong. How do we respond? How do we use these things as a chance to get a little bit better? That's what the philosophy is really about.

Since we're talking about adversity, stillness, and cultivating a healthy response to life, I want to talk to you about Headspace. Life can be stressful under normal circumstances and 2020 has challenged us in ways we probably haven't experienced before. We need the tools to provide a sustainable way to deal with stress, not just a quick fix. And that's where meditation comes in. So Headspace is an easy-to-use app that delivers your daily dose of mindfulness in the form of guided meditations. You know I am a big proponent of meditation. In fact, it totally changed my life. And I love using Headspace when I'm feeling overwhelmed, can't sleep, or I just need a quick refresh. They have a great three-minute SOS meditation if you're feeling really stressed or if you're in a heightened state of anxiety. And they also have some amazing wind-down sessions that I use before bed, especially if I'm struggling with a racing mind. Headspace's approach is advancing the field of mindfulness and meditation through clinically validated research, and it can seriously help to reduce stress, improve sleep, boost focus, and improve your

overall sense of well-being. I always say if we could get all of that from a pill, we would take it. This just takes a little bit of willingness and a tiny bit of discipline on our part, and the benefits are massive. Headspace is clearly doing it right because they've been downloaded over 60 million times. You deserve to feel happier and Headspace is meditation made simple. So go to Headspace.com slash blonde, B-L-O-N-D-E. Again, that's Headspace, H-E-A-D-S-P-A-S-P-A-C-E. For a free one-month trial with access to Headspace's full library of meditations for every situation. This is such a good. deal you guys. So head over to headspace.com slash blonde. Now let's get back to the episode with

Ryan. It's interesting because when I look back on my life, I mean, especially like my singular, my singular, excuse me, adversity, the big one obviously is like recovering from from alcoholism and drug addiction. But even other things along the way, like the things that I thought would be the absolute worst thing to ever happen to me have almost universally turned out to be some of the best things that ever happened to me, the best opportunities for growth and, you know, my character and all of that. And yet still, like, I'm so resistant to it. I mean, it's getting better over the years, but it's just kind of interesting how that happened. Yeah, there's a quote from Freud and he said, in retrospect, the years of struggle will strike you as the most beautiful.

And I was thinking about that. When I read Stoicism, I remember I was reeling from this breakup. I had been with my high school girlfriend for like five years. You know, I thought that was like the whole future of my life and the sort of everything imploded. It was this horrible, painful experience. And I wanted to like put that back together so badly. Like I was like, why did this happen? Why did it have to happen?

And, you know, just a few months forward from that point, you get to the place where you're like, this is so much better. Why did I ever want that? Right. When we look back at the things we experienced in our lives, we understand how they contributed to who we are now. We just have a lot of trouble appreciating that in the moment. Even 2020, right? Like, 2020 inevitably will come to represent something to us if we're lucky enough to enjoy, you know, the future 10 or 15 years from now. We'll think about, we'll either think about two things, right? We'll either think about how we had no idea that better times were just around the corner, or we'll think back, how did we waste this opportunity? Things could have been different if only we had insert the

blank. And so I think part of what stoicism is is really getting those sort of breakthroughs, as far as perspective goes and trying to apply them now before it's too late. And yeah, the ability to sort of appreciate what you're going through. That doesn't mean you would choose 2020 if you had the choice, but you didn't have the choice. So what you can choose is what you decide to get out of it. And so there's a weird part for me where I almost feel a little bit of guilt, given the immensity of the suffering and loss that's happened, there's a part of me that feels almost a little guilty

that I've been able to get as much out of it as I have because I've really focused on, you know, well, the upside is I've spent so much more time with my family. The upside is because I'm not traveling, doing all the things I want to do, I'm really in a creative zone, right? And all of those things. I think what stoicism really, there is, you cannot underestimate the power of just like,

I'm going to focus on what part of this is up to me. You can really do incredible things if that's where you focus. Yeah, I can relate to that a lot. I mean, I think for so many people this year has kind of stripped away distractions. You know, we're not running from one thing to the next. A lot of us, some of us are still kind of in that grind. But for me, like I completely kind of changed the trajectory of my life, like going back to school because I could, because I'm home, you know, and like, and I kind of realized, like, that this, this hamster wheel that I was caught up in was just kind of, I was running on momentum, not really running on what I actually wanted to do, if that makes any sense. No, it makes, it makes complete sense. And one of my mentors said to me once,

he said, this can be a live time or dead time for you. And I've thought about that for for most of the last eight months. Like, when you come out of the other side of this, what are you going to have to show for it? You know what I mean? Like, and I noticed there were people when it, you know, remember in March and they're like, it's going to be two weeks. And so people said, well, I can wait two weeks, right?

And then it was like, hey, it might actually be more like the summer. And then the summer came. They said, oh, well, in the fall, there'll be a vaccine. And then, you know, a couple weeks ago, when they started to have the breakthroughs with the vaccine, they were like, well, the vaccine will be here any day now, right? And of course, all of this, if you actually did your research, is like really not, you know, it was never as right around the corner as it looked.

Like, you were foolish to think that. But the point is you can all, Seneca says, like, the one thing fools all have in common is that they're always beginning to live, right? They're always getting ready to start. And I think a big part of Stoicism for me is like, there is no normal. that you're waiting for things to go back to. Like, life is normal. Like, if you woke up, today is normal, right?

The Antonine plague in Marcus Aurelius' time, it lasted for 15 years. So I don't think there's anyone who suspects that that's what COVID will do. But the point is, like, you just have to seize the moment in front of you because that's really all you have for certain. And if you can do that,

you can make progress now. If you wait, by definition, you're not going to make any progress. A big component of this is being present, right, and stillness. And I want to talk about stillness. And stillness is the key. It's one of my favorites. And there's a quote there.

I think it's Blaise Pascal, right? From the 1600s, that's like the biggest problem in humanity. I'm totally butchering this, but is man's inability or woman, whatever, to sit alone in a room in quiet, right? So I wonder what Blaise Pascal would think if he could see us today sitting in a room alone on a little screen every second that we have to spare. You know, it's like I think it's so bad right now. Yeah, he says all of humanity's problems stem from our inability to sit quietly in a room alone. And like, yeah, this device is the enemy of the ability to do that.

you know, you sit down and like, like I was, I was just eating lunch before we talked. And like, I usually have a, I try to read while I eat as like one of the few quiet times that I get to read because I have young kids. And I forgot it at home. And so I was like, well, I can't just like eat here by myself not doing anything like a sociopath. Like what is that? But of course, like, why is that not pot? Like, why can't I actually just enjoy 10 minutes of quiet, and the meal, right? But there's a part of us that is just really uncomfortable not doing anything. And I remember my therapist said to me one time, she said,

you know, it's human being, not human doing. And I think about that all the time. I have a chapter about it in the book. But that I try to, that's kind of a mantra that I try to remind myself of. Like, when I feel rushed or anxious or like I'm behind, which I get a lot, I try to stop myself and go like, where is this coming from? Like, because sometimes it's like, hey, like, you're trying to buy a house. If you don't get them the money by this time, you know, the deal falls through.

There's like real pressure, right? Or, you know, it's like, hey, if I don't take my medicine by this date, you know, I'm going to die. Like there's such things where there's like real pressure, right? But most of the time, or, you know, hey, if you don't get to the airport and get through security by this time, you'll miss your flight. But most of the anxiety or pressure that we feel is totally artificial. It's like, I don't feel like I'm doing enough. And so therefore, I'm going to whip myself until I magically meet this arbitrary criteria that, frankly, can't even actually be defined. And so, yeah, to go like, well, what do I actually have to be doing? Where is this pressure coming from?

can I actually just sit here and be alive for a moment, like be a human being, is really one of the most powerful experiences you can have. And it's super rare, unfortunately. This episode is brought to you by Blue Blocks. They have been a sponsor for the past year. And you know I just love their products, including their blue light blocking glasses, their red lights, which I have in my bedroom and their sleep mask. So I've done multiple episodes with experts, including Andy Mant, the founder of Blue Blocks, who discussed the effects that blue light has on our biology and why it is beneficial to take precautions and use light therapy products. Blue light can cause eye strain, dry, watery eyes,

increased anxiety, hormone fluctuations, and insomnia. But we probably all work on our computers and our phones and we watch TV and we're around artificial light. all the time. So how do we counteract that? Enter blue blocks. These glasses are the best for a number of reasons. They are made in optics laboratory conditions and are exactly in line with the suggested peer-reviewed academic literature. They have lenses for daytime, nighttime, and for color therapy, and they come in over 20 stylish frames. So my favorites that you probably see me wearing all the time on Instagram are the crystal. And they also come in prescription, non-prescription, and readers. Unlike other companies, Blue Blocks are backed by the latest science and research, and as I said, they also have other great products.

I read by Red Light at night now before bed, and I fall asleep, and I stay asleep. It is such a good life hack. So if you want to get your energy back, if you want to sleep better and block out the unhealthy effects of Blue Light, check out Blue Blocks today and get free shipping worldwide and 15% off with the code, Blonde. that's B-L-O-N-D-E or go to blueblocks.com, B-L-U-B-L-O-X dot com slash blonde, B-L-O-N-D-E. Again, that's blueblocks.com slash blonde or use the code blonde for 15% off. Now back to the show. I was at the pharmacy the other day waiting in line for a prescription and like, I had a hard time standing there for five minutes, not pulling out my phone and like, you know, mindlessly, like checking my email. like, oh, does somebody want something for me?

It's like I'm doing this to my, and then I'm stressed. Like I do it to myself. But I mean, conversely, like I really, I mean, part of my recovery is kind of, you know, this connection with a higher power and being able to sit with myself and meditation, you know, prayer and meditation and that became a big part of my life a few years ago. So I can sit there and do like meditate twice a day for 20 minutes in silence. But then like all the other, you know, 23 hours and. 40 minutes or whatever it is, 20 minutes.

You know, it's like that pull is there. It's like we're so tethered to these things, and it's really challenging. Yeah, I remember about five or six years ago, I was in the middle of this big work crisis, and I was doing a whole bunch of stuff, and I'd just flown, like, I was sort of commuting between Texas and Los Angeles, and I had just flown from Los Angeles back to Texas to see my wife, who hadn't seen in forever, and I'd written a bunch of emails on the plane because Wi-Fi wasn't working or something. I'd written a bunch of emails on the plane. Then I was like trying to get home and then I was going to open my laptop and let all the

email send. And then the internet was out at our house. And I remember, and this was like probably like a Friday night at like, you know, 11 p.m. or something. And I remember going like if I, like having essentially a nervous breakdown that I could not send these emails that nobody was expecting that were not at all urgent, you know, that it had lasted perfectly fine up. And like, I remember having, like, a real panic attack that like, like, if I don't send these emails, what will happen? And of course, the answer is nothing. Nothing will happen. But I created this urgency, this like, this made up direness of the situation. And that was actually one of the breakthroughs for me where I was like, okay, I have like a real problem here. This isn't like, hey, everyone gets a little anxious sometimes.

like this was like, I took a thing that everyone has and because of my own, you know, biology and psychology and experiences has become totally unhealthy and completely unmanageable. And like, I have to get help with this thing because not only is it's not healthy and normal, this if extrapolated out over time, will end in complete and total disaster. And so I think, you know, obviously stoicism was a big help with that. regular therapy was a big help with that. I read the workaholics book from Workaholics Anonymous. There was a whole bunch of parts of dealing with that, but it's just sort of realizing like, hey, like, you're not put on this planet to respond to emails in a prompt and timely fashion.

You know, like that is not fulfillment of your destiny. But we can get so warped and messed up that that's where we come to feel and exist. And it's really sad. Yeah, I agree. So normally I find like morning and evening routines kind of boring, but I want to hear about yours because I want to hear how you balance like a successful career and family and probably a really busy life and some of these pressures, how you balance that with your practice. And I've heard you talk, I think it was maybe Jay Shetty's podcast about protecting your energy in the morning. So I'd love for you to kind of break that down for us. Well, and I like that you mentioned morning routines, and I'm honored that the Daily Stokes and yours, that's really cool. I woke up this morning at like, I don't know, maybe 615. My youngest son woke me up like on the baby monitor, so I went and got him.

My wife has a very different, like, so my wife has a different morning routine. So she gets up before she has like sort of her time in the morning. I woke up. I took both kids. We went outside for a walk. It was 40 degrees. So it was freezing. So there's a whole bundling up process.

But we went outside. We did like about a three mile walk. I don't take my phone with me. I try not to check my phone in the mornings. I usually like let's say I woke up at 615. I probably touched my phone for the first time, other than like to put it in my pocket to take it to the car, probably 8.15.

So like two hours, no phone in the morning. So we went for the walk. I brought the kids home. I spent some time writing in a journal. And then, you know, took a shower, got ready. And then I went to my office where I went right into my writing for the day. So I'm finishing up the manuscript of my next book. So like I spend sort of uninterrupted like to me the morning.

It's like if I can own the morning, if I can just really get what I need to get done first thing in the day, then I can do this interview or I have to shoot some videos later. I have a phone call I have to do. I can do all that stuff at kind of a leisurely pace. I don't have to feel worried or anxious because there's nothing I have to get back to and there's nothing I've put off. But I also think that like, let's say writing requires sort of concentration, but it also requires like being in a good place, that place of stillness.

And so that's why I like, I don't want to be checking my email. I don't want to be, you know, subject to interruptions. I want to kind of be centered and happy and connected because I want to bring that energy into the writing. And I find like, you know, I could write from three to six in, you know, in the evening. I could write, you know, with the television on. Like, I could do it. But it just, you know, bad inputs create bad outputs.

And if I don't protect that space, the product's not a lot. is good. And then what about in the evening? Do you do like a similar thing? Put the phone away. Yeah. Actually my, it's not really a New Year's resolution. It's just something I'm working on because we do this challenge every year for Daily Stoic, like a sort of a new year, new you. And I was sort of thinking about like what I'm trying to work on. And so one of them is like, my wife and I are working on a bedtime. Like it's like we wake up early and we're in control of that. And then like a lot of people, maybe I think it's sort of a reaction against childhood. you're kind of just like, and then I just go to bed whenever, you know?

And like by leaving that so open-ended, it creates room for a lot of bad habits. So like we kind of have a, like we have dinner at the same time every day, which, you know, the incredible part of the pandemic is like, I have been home for dinner every day for eight months, except for like one day I had to do like a remote thing with like someone in Australia, right? Like I've been home for dinner every single day for eight months. And then so we have dinner at home, we go for a walk afterwards,

then we usually sort of like play games or, you know, do whatever. Then we put the kids in the bath. Then after the bath, they go into bed, read them stories. They go to bed. And then we have like, you know, an hour or two of like time to ourselves before bed. But it's kind of like the warm up and the wind down, I think, are two really important parts of the day. Yeah, it's like bookending your day.

Yes. And I try to do my reading at night now. Like, I used to read, I used to try, part of my job, I travel a lot and as a writer. And so I would do a lot of my reading like away from home, like in bursts. And the pandemic has obviously blown that apart. And so now I was like, oh, okay, so now I'm going to have to be more disciplined, more scheduled about this thing. And so now I've been a bit more sort of deliberate about my reading practice.

But I think it's like routine is really important. But the most important part is the ability to be flexible. Like if you are too rigid, then you're also really fragile. So that's kind of a weird balance of it too. Okay, well, I want to make sure we get some of the listener questions here. So we kind of covered this, but what are your top habits that foster inner peace? So instead of some of the other ones we've already talked about, here's a big one. Don't watch the news.

Like watch zero television news. I think being an informed. citizen is really important, but being informed and watching the news unfold in real time are not the same thing. The best thing that I read during the pandemic was a book called The Great Influenza, which is a book about the Spanish flu, which happened a hundred years ago. I learned so much about what I should be doing day to day from that book and how to process information and how to understand crazy reactions that people are going to be having. And I got that from reading an old book, right?

And so I think my number one thing for inner peace would be limit the inputs that you have on. Another, and I can only imagine, you know, sort of given what, like, what you do is like, you watch these people. And there's a part of it for me too, but it's like, so when your profession is social media, it's so hard to have a healthy relationship with these technologies. And like, so for me, like, I don't have any social media apps on my phone. They're all on my wife's phone. So, like, I have to consciously pick up a different device that somebody else owns.

And that creates, it'd be like if, you know, like with addicts and sometimes you have to take, like, let's say, like a painkiller from like a surgery or something, like creating another step. So it's not you and your bad impulses being in charge. I have to do that with social media or I will have an unhealthy relationship with it and just having a bit of awareness about that's a big part of it. But then even on my phone, which is limited as far as the, you know, the apps that I have on it, I don't have really any push notifications, right? Like I have calendar, you know, the calendar, because that's something I've agreed to do. And then I have like text messages. But, you know, my phone doesn't ring and only vibrate. Like, I want to be using the technology, not the technology using me.

Yeah. Yeah, I think a lot of us are more controlled by the technology and controlled by the algorithms and all of that than we even realize. And yeah, it's very... The smartest people in the world are making those algorithms. So the idea that you're just naturally stronger and smarter than them is just really naive. Like, these things are drugs, and they're really good at me.

making you want to use them. And I think the people who make them know that and they limit their own use of it because they know how addictive it is. Yeah, like Steve Jobs before he died was like, do you let your kids use these things? And he was like, God, no. I think that tells you everything. Yeah, exactly. Okay.

How, let's see, how to word this, how can I avoid falling into despair when dreams aren't being fulfilled due to obstacles? Yeah, well, I mean, look, that's a real thing. I mean, no one's saying like, hey, you should be happy that you're not getting the thing that you're working towards your on. But one of the things I try to remind myself of is like, if it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. And then it wouldn't be worth doing. Right? Like when I'm like halfway through a book and I can't tell, you know, if I'm going to make it to the other side, if it's even worth doing, is anyone going to care of? about this, I go like, everyone who's ever worked on a book has been at this place. And the ones who quit did not get past it. And the ones who made something amazing found a way to get through it. And it's because of the obstacles. Like another way to think of another word for obstacle is deterrent, right? Like something that deters people. And if you can see them that way, then you go, oh, okay, I get why this is here.

It's to scare away other people, but not me. And if you can turn that around, then you can kind of see all the difficulty as something that's ultimately, you know, working in your interest. We didn't really talk about ego too much. And somebody asked how to let go of ego. And then I'm kind of curious, like how you deal with your own ego, if it ever kind of creeps in, especially like dealing with success and all of that.

Well, I think it's always creeping in and it's always there for everyone. So in the book, I talk about this idea of like ego is this thing that you have to sweep away. You know, you sweep your house and then it's clean, but only for like five seconds. And then it's a, you know, it's a constant battle against the elements against dirt, you know, against dust and all of that. So I think seeing it as a process rather than a thing that you do one time is really important. And maybe another way to think about ego is it's not like how do you get rid of it, but how do you replace it with something else?

So it's like, look, if you don't believe you can do something, you're probably not going to be able to do it. But, you know, just going around believing that you can do things does not make you capable of doing that. We need something else. And so I think confidence is really important. And I think if we make a big distinction between confidence and ego, it becomes clear. Like, confidence is something you earn. You know, confidence is based on, you didn't believe you could go back to school.

You knew you could go back to school because you've tackled hard things in your life before. I got to imagine, too, like getting sober, that's the hardest thing you've done in your life. It turns down the volume on other stuff. You're like, if I can quit this, you're telling me I can't quit biting my fingernails. You know what I mean? Like, of course you can, right? And so having a sense of what we're capable of doing is not the same as ego. Ego is this belief that the rules don't apply to us, that it's going to be easy, that whatever we want is ours.

You know, ego that we're special, that we're better than everyone else. That's not healthy, but confidence is essential. I like the analogy of sweeping it away and that it's like something that you have to do continually. there's something in recovery. I can't remember the exact saying, but it's like I have to maintain my spiritual fitness on a daily basis. So what I did yesterday

isn't going to apply when I wake up today. Like I need to do it over. So that's why I read daily stoic in the morning. That's why I'm reading meditations. I do my prayer. I do my meditation. And then it's like I'm righted for the day. Yeah, it's like it's an ongoing process

and realizing that, particularly in the case of you go, but I think this actually holds true as sobriety, it's like as you become more successful, as you accumulate days of recovery, this is where that creeping voice comes in that says like, oh, you don't need to do that work anymore. Like, you got this. It's done. And that is, that complacency and that entitlement

is what sets you up for a fault. all. And so, look, there's ego in being the person who sits on their couch and says, the game is rigged. Everyone's out to get me. I can't succeed. There's actually ego in that too, but it's really the ego of like, you know, hey, I have a million Instagram followers. I'm really somebody. That's what fucks you up the most. It's, it's the, that external validation. It's when everyone's throwing you a party for, you know, your 10 year, your 10 year anniversary that you go, oh, I'm past this. And that's when you've, you know, when you've set yourself up for, to be vulnerable.

Right. Who do you find inspiring? Yeah, I don't know if there's like one person that I would sort of point to. I think I think I'm always interested in people who, and these are sort of the stories that I look for when I'm writing, somebody who sort of did the hard thing when they could have gotten away with the easy thing. You know what I mean? And that can be true, you know, on an individual basis, that could be true on a, you know, like a sort of moment of destiny basis, like somebody who sort of pulls off this incredible thing. I'm just, I'm always just impressed with people who sort of have some sort of like code or set of beliefs

that obligate them to do something beyond what is expected of them or legally, obligated for them to do, I think moments like that. And I think we're even seeing this in, you know, playing out politically right now. You have like, you have sort of people who their career interest is, you know, like telling people what they want to hear, but they're obligated out of some sense of duty or some sort of patriotism or obligation to, you know, to be like, no, I'm not going to be a part of that. I'm not going to do that. I don't care if you threaten me. I don't care. I don't care. if you're if you if you know people you know attack me on Twitter I'm going to do what I think is right I love the those are the people that keep me going yeah I agree do you have any vices uh yeah of course

I've got all sorts of vices I mean sort of an unhealthy relationship with work is always one that I'm sort of like okay what what's appropriate what are my boundaries you know like how do I keep this within reason. I don't know if you've experienced this, but I think as you sort of cut off different vices, whether it's work or your relationship with food or anything, you find that the energy doesn't go away. It just gets redirected towards another thing.

So it's kind of this element of whack-a-mole of like, oh, man, now I'm doing this all the time, and I should probably stop doing that. Then you do whatever it takes to break that habit, and then you're like, and now I'm doing this thing that I was never doing before. So I think I'm proud of the fact that my vices have gotten sort of like more minor as they've gone. Like last year I was like, why am I chewing gum all the time?

Like I can't not be chewing gum. And like I feel like it was clear that it was just becoming a way to sort of treat anxiety and boredom. And like it was kind of just like a nervous tick. And I was like, okay, I'm just going to like stop. doing that. And so there it's kind of, but like, you know, nobody throws you a parade when you stop chewing gum. But for me, it was part of a continuum of like eliminating sort of compulsive behaviors that I sort of continue on. Yes. I love the whack-a-mole idea. I mean, it's like, yeah, you replaced one addiction with another or not necessarily addiction, but I mean, even in my experience, it was like,

okay, I'm done drinking and doing drugs. So now it's working out and then it's food and then it's like work and then and now it's school. And, you know, I wonder if that's why like in recovery, like service is such a one of the big tenets because you're kind of directing that energy into thinking about other people. When you're thinking about other people, you're not thinking about yourself and maybe it's kind of like a funnel in that sense. I know. I think I think that I think that's totally right. And it really is about directing that energy towards productive ends, because the problem is, too, more of the stuff that I struggle with, like, one of the problems with sort of a work addiction is that it's like the most socially acceptable of all the things,

right? And there's rewards for it. And so you can go, hey, I've dealt, you know, I've fixed this. And then I'm just on my phone all the time now because everyone's on their phone. So you're kind of, you're kind of hiding in plain sight. But it's like, it's different for, you know, it's like if you have that sort of compulsive impulse, then it's like you using the phone is not the same as someone else using the phone. Like other people can do things healthily and you can and sort of coming to terms with that has been part of it for me too. Well, amazing. I just loved chatting with you. What are you promoting right now? What are you working on? What's going on in your world. Yeah. I mean, so every day I do, so the book the Daily Stoic is one page a day, but then every day

for the last four years, I've done an email for Daily Stoic. So it's like basically four free books. So people can sign up for that at Daily Stoic.com. And then there's an Instagram, although we were just railing against social media, but you can follow it at Daily Stoic. And yeah, I'm just, I'm just always trying to write, write the next book. And the lucky part for me, is that this journey of making stuff is also, you know, this my own philosophical journey. So I'm just always trying to read and write

and get a little bit better every day. That's got to be really gratifying. Not in an egoistic way, but in a growing way. Yeah, no, it's very nice and very, I feel very fortunate. Well, thank you again. And maybe we'll chat when you have a new book out.

I would love that. I really appreciate it and it was awesome to talk. I hope you enjoyed that episode. If you liked it and if you like the show in general, please take a second to rate, review, and subscribe. It goes a long way and it's actually the best way to support the show. Also, if you want to see more about each episode, you can head over to The Blonde Files podcast on Instagram. I'm always posting about each episode there or over on my personal page at Ariel Laurie.