Well with Arielle Lorre - 99: FAD FREE Gut Health with Dr. Megan Rossi

Episode Date: March 3, 2021

In this episode I am talking to Dr. Megan Rossi, a registered dietician and gut health researcher about the real science of our gut. We discuss what the term gut health means; the gut-brain connection; specific digestive conditions and treatments; why restrictive diets can be detrimental to our gut health; the truth behind gluten, dairy, sugar and our gut; fads that aren’t backed by science; the science behind how our thoughts can elicit a response to certain foods, and so much more.    www.LesserEvil.com  with code BLONDE for 25% off your first one-time order www.Talkspace.com  with code BLONDE for $100 off your first month www.Upstart.com/BLONDE  to find out how Upstart can lower your monthly payments today www.NativeDeo.com/BLONDE  for 20% off your first order   Produced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Go to your rise-adviseur or sunnycars. The following podcast is a dear media production. Hey, welcome. Welcome to the Blonde Files podcast. I'm your host, Ariel Lori, and I'm here to talk all things wellness. From how to achieve optimal health and well-being to the best beauty tips and everything in between, no topic is off limits. I know there is so much information out there, so I'm here to help

you navigate it all and live your best life. Thanks for listening. Let's get into it. Hi, everybody. Welcome to the show. Today is one of my favorite episodes because it is all about gut health and the real science behind it, which is so important because gut health has become very trendy. My guest would call this fad-free gut health. And she is Dr. Megan Rossi. She's a dietitian and a researcher, so she knows her stuff. And she explains the science behind her gut, the gut brain connections, specific conditions, and just how everything works. She explains it so well so that anybody can understand it, even though we are talking about science. And she also talks a lot about how restricting foods and food groups can be really detrimental to our guts,

which I think is really important. I know a lot of my audience has experience with that. And she talks about the science behind why our thoughts around eating certain things can actually cause us to react in certain ways. And we do some myth busting, fad busting. And it's just so, full of helpful information. So please enjoy Dr. Megan Rossi. Okay, so welcome to the show. Thank you so much for coming on. It's an absolute pleasure. I'm just so passionate about the science and I know you are too and your channel and your followers. So it's, yeah, an absolute pleasure. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think the the whole topic of gut help is so challenging for people to navigate nowadays because it seems like everybody is having issues. And it also seems like there's just so much information and so much noise

out there. And for somebody who's not a scientist and not in, you know, healthcare or whatever, it's really hard to navigate. And there's so many trends and so many influencers. I've been one of those influencers in the past that's like, don't eat this and this and this, you know. So really grateful to have you here. So to start, why don't you just tell everyone about yourself and what you do? Yeah, so I work as a research fellow with all things got health. So they picked up on actually Australian, although I live in the UK. So I did my PhD in gut health back in Australia, essentially looking at whether we've nourished we got through the right nutrition, whether that in turn can improve the health of other

organs like our heart, our kidneys, our brain, etc. And, you know, it was that that really just blew my mind in terms of actually so much of our health and happiness is in our own hands. We just have to really understand the gut and nourish the gut. And I'm sure we'll talk about exactly about how we can do that. But that's kind of how I got into the area. It just inspired me the clinical research. And I knew that if I was really going to have my mark on the world and really help people,

it was going to be via the gut because it was just so powerful. But I then after my PhD moved to the UK to work at King as a research fellow, because they're certainly renowned internationally for their incredible research in the space. So I now lead a range of different clinical trials in things like, you know, different types of dietary fibers, low FODMAP, just general ways through nutrition we can really nourish our gut health, whether people have conditions in their gut or whether they just want to optimize their overall health and happiness via that. And absolutely love the research side of things, but kind of as you highlighted, I think about a year

after being here in UK, I just got a little bit, I think, frustrated essentially that despite the amazing research that was coming out about the gut, it just wasn't being translated to the public. It was just, it was being misrepresented. And as a dietitian, I've always continued clinical practice alongside my research. So I was seeing clients and I was seeing them on crazy restrictive diets that they'd read about and they were doing because they thought it was good for their gut, but actually went completely against the science. And, they were doing more harm than good. And I just thought, this is just not right. So that's when I got more into, you know, the social media set up the gut health doctor. And yeah, I think, you know,

really trying to empower people with that right evidence and inspiring them that, you know, gut health truly is a landmark, you know, scientific discovery. We just need to make sure we're accessing the right information because there is so much cloud and confusion out there. Yeah. So you mentioned how the gut is. that can affect other functions of your body. And I think when people think gut health, they just think like digestion, bloating, you know, these kind of like acute symptoms.

But can you talk about how it can affect other things? Yeah. And, you know, one of the questions I get asked the most is, how do you know if you have a happy gut? And people think, oh, it's just because they don't have gut symptoms. I must have great gut health. And unfortunately, it's not as simple as that, like you've highlighted, because our gut health is actually so complex.

and things like our gut microbes are thought to communicate with things like our brain. And there's some really fascinating research coming out around our gut brain access and how we can nourish the gut through the right nutrition. And in turn, that can improve people's mental health. And in my book, which is coming out with very exciting, finally, Love Your Gut, it actually has an assessment for people to get started, which scales their gut health from zero to 20, and ask them 10 simple questions.

So yes, gut symptoms is one of them, but also how often do you get sick? Are you stressed? How are you sleeping? Are you on a restrictive diet? Are you taking medications? And get them to give that information. And then people will get a more accurate idea of where they got health currently is at. And then moving forward, you know, what are the key strategies for them to work on?

Because, yeah, it's not just all about gut symptoms and it's not just all about our diet. You know, we really need to look at the full picture of our gut health. And the fact that we now have really good clinical trials, so studies in humans highlighting that if we nourish the gut through the right nutrition, we can actually have clinically significant improvements on people's mental health. You know, is mind-blowing. This show is supported by Upstart. And you guys, I've talked about this before, but I had horrendous credit years ago. And I opened multiple cards to build it back up. But it was a lot.

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upstart.com slash blonde. That's B-L-O-N-D-E. Again, that's upstart.com slash blonde, U-P-S-T-A-R-T-A-R-T-com Blonde, B-L-O-N-D-E, and don't forget to use our URL to let them know that you guys were sent by the show. Loan amounts will be determined based on your credit, income, and certain other information provided in your loan application. Go to upstart.com slash blonde. There's a lot of uncertainty in the world right now, and that can lead to depression, anxiety, or just scary thoughts that are really hard to turn off sometimes. and I personally have never been more grateful to have a therapist who helps me navigate all of these different feelings that are coming up. And it's amazing how much better things can

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to match with the licensed therapist today, go to talkspace.com or download the app and just make sure to use the code blonde, which is B-L-O-N-D-E, and you'll get $100 off your first month and show support for the show. Again, that's talkspace.com, and the code is blonde, B-L-O-N-D-E. Hi, new friends. I'm Jackie Schimel, philanthropist, motivational speaker, glowing wife, animal rights activist, and a shoulder to cry on. Not really. I'm a crazy bitch, but a hoot and a half. If you haven't listened to my podcast, The Bitch Bible, brace yourself, pour yourself a stiff drink and get ready to laugh your ass off or cry. Make sure you subscribe yourself to the Bitch Bible podcast right now. You're going to effing, love it. We were kind of talking off mic about my own gut issues, which I've been very vocal about. But a few years ago when I was kind of at my peak where it was the absolute worst, I was having acute digestive issues, which I don't need to get into.

Everyone can use their imaginations, but it did affect so many other things. You know, it showed up on my skin. It showed up in anxiety. It showed up as brain fog to the point where, you know, I couldn't think straight. It showed up as fatigue where I couldn't even drive for work, all the, you know, sleep, everything. It just, it was so crazy to me. And at the time, I didn't know anything about gut health. And so when it was suggested to me that, like, maybe I had some.

some kind of dysbiosis going on. I was like, huh. But in treating that, you know, it really did kind of have ripple effects. And I just saw such a huge improvement in all those other areas of my life. Yeah, no, like you said, I hear this time and time again, you know, it's connected to so much. And I think probably an important point for me to highlight is actually what is gut health, because, you know, we all hear this kind of buzzword, but what it is exactly is not often communicated. So it actually relates the functioning of our entire digestive tract. So it's this nine metre long tube that delivers food from entry all the way to exit. Now, along that nine metres, there's a number of really key things.

And it really highlights why gut health is important for absolutely everyone. The first one is about digestion, which is quite obvious. You know, the old saying you are what you eat, not quite correct. It's more you are what you digest. Because if you don't have a good gut lining, no matter how healthy the food you put in, to your body is, you're not going to get that food from your gut into your blood to feed things like your skin, your brain, etc. So to really make the most out of your food, you need to have that good gut lining. The second one, really important at the moment is our immune system. So

70% of our immune system lives along that nine-meter digestive tract. So we certainly do see people with that gut health have more supported immune systems because they live in the same place. They talk all the time. But it's really this third element, which I think has brought the fain this concept more recently. And I touched on it about the trillions of microorganisms. So it's mainly bacteria, but actually these microorganisms we refer to that live in our nine-meter digestive tract actually include things like viruses and parasites and fungi, such as yeast, which a lot of people freak out about, but actually synergistically, they all work to look after us. And we collectively call that our gut microbiota, which I nicknamed to my GM, because it sounds a bit

science-y. And it's this little community that is revolutionizing what it means to be human, because there's more of them than there is human cells in our body. And they do things like produce hormones and vitamins, all these things that we thought human cells did on their own. Actually, it's thanks to this little community. So how we treat them really plays out in the rest of our body. I like how you pointed out that it kind of starts at entry, right? And you've talked about this on your Instagram. But the importance of chewing. our food, right? I think that that's something that we overlook. And I've talked about this before as well, but when I was working with someone a few years ago, when I was having these issues, he suggested I chew

my food. And I was appalled. I was like, are you kidding me? I'm not crazy. I'm not really simplistic advice. Exactly. Exactly. But when I actually paid attention, I was like, oh yeah, I'm chewing my food maybe two, three times and then swallowing. But something else that I wanted to ask you, you talked about the gut lining. And, you know, I just, I know from my audience and interactions and the questions that they sent in for today, I'm sure a lot of people went, wait a second, how do I improve my gut lining or how do I know if there's an issue with my gut lining? Because so many people, including myself, have had this experience where we feel like we're doing all the right things. We're eating a lot of diversity and plants and fiber and all of the things and we're

sleeping and we're meditating and things are still not functioning. Would that maybe have to do with the gut lining? How can we kind of improve that area of our gut? Yeah, no, that's a really good question. So when we think about our gut lining, remember, it's made up of all these teeny cells essentially. And what we know is that they love when our bacteria eat fiber, like you said, comes from all our plant-based food groups. The fiber then gets turned into these things called shrews. short-chain fatty acids, which essentially is like this nutrition for our gut lining. So like you highlighted, having fibro in your diet is really key. However, if you're already having fibro in your diet, but you still feel like it's not right,

then we need to look at other things. So we certainly know that stress plays out on our gut lining. So there's some really cool research where they looked at people who got really nervous when they had to do public speaking. And they looked at what we call the leakiness of their gut. pre and post public speaking. And what we know about the gut, so it's like this nice strong wall

and it only lets certain things in. So certain nutrients from our food can go in, but it doesn't let the bad things in essentially. So it's quite a protective element for our body. Now when we have a leaky gut, and I will talk more about that, but it's not a black and white thing. It's not like you either have a leaky gut

or you definitely don't. Like from day to day, we all get a slightly leaky gut. if we have like a really large meal or really fatty meal, our gut gets a little bit leaky, but it closes back up and it's completely fine. However, stress, particularly, you know, both the acute but also chronic, so long-term stress can actually trigger this leakiness. So in turn, what they showed in the study is that the public speaking, that kind of acute

nervous act actually really did increase the leakiness. So things get more inside into the body. So although, you know, doing things like mindfulness and the head, space and meditation, all those sorts of things are really great, and I definitely recommend people do it, if there's other things in their life that's causing them stress, or if they're fixating so much I'm trying to have a perfect diet, and that in turn stresses them out, then that can actually do more harm than good. And I think I do see this a lot in clinic, where people get really upset if they have to have some sort of processed food because they're

out of friends. And that stress actually does, they've got more harm than how. having that little bit of processed food. We need to be very careful that we think, yes, diet plays a huge role in our gut health, but also stress, sleep is another one. We certainly know every five or so days, the top part of our gut actually sheds and regenerates. And we think that if people aren't getting, you know, their seven to nine hours good quality sleep, that regeneration might not be as effective. So again, highlighting the importance of getting that.

at sleep because that's really when your gut can kind of rest as well. Yes, there's many different factors. Yeah, well, I love that you talked about the stress around eating certain things. I don't want to keep referring to myself, but I mean, this is just something that I've dealt with for so many years. Yeah, you're not alone. It's so common. It's very scary to share it, I think. Yeah, I mean, I was shocked when I first shared about it. I didn't want to because I was so ashamed. I was like, oh, gut health. That's gross. You know, this is years ago. And when I did, I was like shocked at how many people were dealing with the same things. And it just seems like everybody is having some kind of issue. Maybe it's the stress. Maybe it's being on our devices and being activated all the time and all of that.

I don't know. I'm not the scientist. But I did. I restricted gluten, dairy, refined sugar, corn, soy, legumes, grains, everything. And for a while, I did see improvement. But then it got to the point where, you know, eating was so stressful. And when I kind of let go of those rules, I did see. a lot of improvement, but I wanted to ask about certain things like low Fodmap diet, which you mentioned. And right now it just seems like there's every kind of cleanse, the candida cleanse and the yeast cleanse and the parasite supplements and the Baccebo and which of these are valid or when are they valid. Yeah. I love this. I love this discussion. So like you've highlighted, so many people have a sensitive gut. And I think the first thing people should do if they're getting things like

altered poops, tummy pain, ongoing bloating that last for, you know, a couple of weeks, if not months, and they don't understand it. The first thing you should always do is go and see your physician. And the reason for that is just to make sure you don't have things like celiac disease, inflammatory bowel disease, and even colon cancer, which, you know, don't freak out about. They do very simple tests. But it is important because often these, those conditions actually present with gut symptoms as well. So we firstly need to rule out that it's not one of what we call an organic disease. It's more of what we call a functional gut disorder.

So once you've been cleared of those conditions and you're still getting these ongoing symptoms, it is likely that you have this functional gut disorder. Now I talk in more detail about these in the book, but essentially you can think of them kind of like a display home. So you go into a display home, everything looks pristine, which is why all you test come back normal, but actually you try to turn the lights on, they don't work. The oven doesn't work. So the functionality of your gut is not working. And historically, we didn't really understand about these functional gut disorders because we thought if the tests are normal,

your gut's normal must be all in your head. But it's been in the last couple of years where the research has really exploded in this space. And one of the most common types of functional gut disorder is irritable bowel syndrome. But you can also get things like functional bloating, where actually you don't have tummy pain, but you just get ongoing bloating. And you can also have functional constipation, where constipation is kind of your main symptom. So there's all these different types. So it's kind of important that you find out which is your type of functional gut disorder. So what is your main issue? And again, I talk through the diagnostic criteria, you know, in the book. But why I suggest that is because having that understanding can then

help personalise the strategies that are right for your gut. So what we know about things like constipation, for example, you know, going on a low form that diet might actually cause you to have more constipation. So it's certainly not something I would first recommend. And in love your gut, I do have this personalized flow diagram, which kind of goes through exactly what I would do in a clinic setting. And I wrote the book because essentially I can't go and see everyone one on one. And so I kind of wanted to brain dump how I would treat someone in clinic and go through questions like, are you getting enough fiber? Yes. Are you having enough hydration? Like the basic things. Yes. Okay. Have you tried this type of fiber which helps laxate you? Have you tried this type of probiotic, which has got good evidence specifically for constipation? Or actually is it not necessarily about your diet? Is it about your pooping technique? Are you actually sitting on the toilet? Because most of us don't actually have the proper technique.

and it's really down to the Western toilet was not kind of designed to support gut physiology and how we squat with our pelvic floor and stuff so there's diagrams on that or actually is it about your pooping technique in terms of like how you activate your muscles or the movement elements. So it's important to identify

what kind of evidence-based strategy is right for you. So that's what the concept of flow diagram is. Then when it comes to Irritobah syndrome, there is really impressive evidence for the low fob map diet. Now, essentially, we need to be super aware of what that means. So irritable bowel syndrome is, you know, one of those functional cut disorders where you have to have tummy pain at least one day a week, along with altered stools,

and you have to have that for at least six months. That's like the diagnostic criteria for it after ruling out things like syliphystides. So if you do meet that, what we understand is kind of the underlying, I guess, cause of your IBS is a dysfunction between. the gut and the brain. So everyone's gut and brains constantly communicating. In Erisabal syndrome, that communication is dysfunctional. So essentially, anything which kind of changes how your gut moves or how the enzymes are released is like exacerbated in people with IBS. They felt so much worse. So that's why we see food as a trigger for symptoms, but it's not the underlying cause.

So with the low Fodmap diet, it takes out a lot of trigger foods. And these are ones which actually are called prebiotics. They nourish our gut bacteria. But the thing is, when you've got the sensitive gut in IBS, your gut needs a little bit of a rest. Because adding extra fibre and these prebuttics in, so these Fodmaps into your diet, the bacteria eat, don't produce gas. And you've got the sensitive gut, puts pressure on it. And that triggers this gut brain access to activate symptoms.

So the premise of the diet is for four to six weeks, you take out these kind of high trigger foods to give your gut a little bit of rest. Now, this is where there's a lot of confusion because the low phobmat diet is not a healthy diet for your gut. Essentially, it's starving your gut bacteria of its pre-biotics and a lot of the good fibers. But it's a medical diet that we do give to people just to get a little bit of gut rest. And then after the four to six weeks, we go through this systematic reintroduction process where we slowly reintroduce the different FODMAPs to nourish the right gut bacteria and identify whether there's one group you're a little bit more sensitive to.

Not that you would ever fully cut that out. It's just that you need to more slowly reintroduce that. Now, the thing about the diet is that it's, like I said, it's a medical diet. So actually, the regulations say that it should only ever be done alongside a gut specialist or FODMAP trained dietitian, which obviously is a huge barrier because there's just not that accessibility. So to help with that, I developed this low FODMAP light approach. So it's certainly not a full FODMAP diet, which can be dangerous for people doing it

on their own. But it does help kind of take out some of the really, really high FodMap foods for a short period of time again and helps people reintroduce them into the diet. So I talk more, again, through flow diagrams, how to do that. do that in the book. But that's kind of like for people who don't have access to a dietitian who need help with their IBS because we do know that in the short term, it can be hugely helpful and beneficial to have that gut rest. It's just long term, it's super dangerous. Summer is kind of just around the corner. So I want to talk to you guys about deodorant.

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you know, another thing that we're seeing all over the place are these diagnostic tests. And I know that you've talked about this on your page as well, but are any of them helpful, useful? Or is it just like what you mentioned earlier going to the doctor and ruling out maybe these big things like celiacs or Crohn's or something like that? Yeah, look, in the future, I think. think there's huge promise. In fact, our research group at King's released a paper where an analysed people with IBS their poop and using their poop, not just the bacteria in their poop, but the chemicals of bacteria were producing, we were able to predict whether that person could respond to probiotics or a low Fodmap diet and these patients had

ibis. So we are starting to see that actually looking at some of these poop tests in the future will be really helpful for kind of predicting response and having more of an understanding. However, that is like five years of translating clinical practice. And I absolutely wish it was quicker, but it needs validating. It needs, you know, all of these additional things to happen for it to then be robust to commercialise. Now, companies obviously seeing the kind of the new papers coming out get over-excited, and then they start to be a little bit misleading.

they start to promote tests that I completely just not accurate. Like in particular things like food intolerance tests, IGG tests, like the World Immunology Association have actually said IGG tests are just not valid for food intolerances. So please do not use them. Yeah, it's a, it's a non-regulated industry. So people are still getting away with it,

which is just so upsetting. So I think in the future there will be a lot more sort of diagnostic tools out there. there is a test coming through which can, it's starting to be more validated, still probably a year or so off, that's helping people identify whether their IBS was caused by an initial gut infection. But I mean, a lot of people's IBS, you know, if you get a gut infection, so you go away overseas, have something dodgy, get, you know, gut inflammation, get diarrhea and et cetera, you are four times likely to get IBS when you, you know, within that subsequent year. So we certainly know that people who get gut infections,

so that changes their gut bacteria around, and therefore they got brain access, are much higher risk. So this test that they're looking at is trying to help pinpoint those people in particular. But in clinic, I would just take a medical history and I usually kind of make that assumption

if they've had a gut infection and then a year or two later they started to get all these gut symptoms, then it's likely post-infectious IBS. But again, the way we manage that doesn't necessarily change. We look at relaxing this gut brain axis because it's like the bacteria have been disturbed from the gut infection. And that in turn makes your gut lining super sensitive.

And that sensitivity feeds the gut brain communication. So it all comes back to that underlying dysfunction between the gut and the brain, even though different things of course, whether it's a gut infection, chronic or severe, a stressful trauma, and other things. I find the connection between trauma and gut issues fascinating. I've had other doctors on the show, and I always wondered if that was kind of a component of mine because I never had issues. And then, you know, I'm very vocal about this.

I've been sober for seven years. And before that, I was totally abusing my body. And I went through a lot of big T and little T traumas. And when I got sober, I developed gut issues. And, you know, I've always wondered, like, if there's a connection there. But I'm curious. And then I want to talk about some, like, fads and foods and all of that. But is there research into meditation and IBS?

There is. So as a skeptical researcher, I was always like, me that sort of stuff is too hippie-diffy. Like, I mean, give me some research and maybe I'll listen. They gave me some research. and now I'm listening. So there actually is some really cool research coming out around things like, we call it like cognitive behavior therapy, so challenging the thoughts going on here,

which can really exacerbate that dysfunction between the cut and the brain. Gut-directed hypnotherapy is another one where there's really cool evidence for, in fact, that compared that to a low-form-map diet and found that even though, so the gut-directed hypnotherapy didn't change people's diet at all, and the other half went on below Fulmant diet, which is considered that gold standard diet. After, I think it was a nine-week clinical trial, they found that actually they had equal efficacy,

equal effectiveness. So one, just focusing on the thoughts and going on your head and how that communicates to your gut and the other, you know, taking out the triggers, so to speak, not necessarily healing that underlying condition. And then there's also evidence for a gut-directed yoga flow. So again, in this clinic, trial, they compared it for 12 weeks against a low full-famant diet and found very similar results.

I think it was like 80% of people had a significant improvement in their IBS symptoms. And I actually, in Love You Got worked with a yogi expert. So I was like, people can't, you know, all have this special IBS yoga therapist at their hand. So how can I like take this clinical trial and give it to people in a really bite-sized way? So I got the protocol of like what they, the yoga flow that they did in the clinical trial. I gave it to Richie Norton, this yoga expert. And I said, can you condense that down to 15 minutes of flow that people could do every morning? So in the book, there is this kind of step by step guide.

And I've had so much great feedback. Again, it's unlikely to be as powerful as doing, you know, like an hour, four times a week. But if people could set aside just 15 minutes to kind of relax the communication between the gut and the brain, and that's through things like the breathing that happens in yoga, but also like the stretching kind of relaxes and tenses up that gut, which can help kind of massage the gut in a way. So it's really worth giving a try. That's amazing.

I can't wait to get your book. By the way, I'm like, I need all. It should be with you any day. Okay. So you talk a lot about being fad-free, right? Fad-free science. Here in L.A., there are a ton of fads. around gut health and just wellness in general.

And I wanted to get your take on things like gluten-free, dairy-free, the science behind that. It seems like everything here. It's gluten-free, dairy-free, grain-free, you know, all the things I mentioned before, soy-free, sugar-free, all of the above. Yeah. I mean, the food industry is having so much fun, aren't they? Creating all of this confusion for people. So what we see according to the research is people,

have more different types of plant-based foods than their diet per week, have better gut health. And that's why I recommend people aim for at least 30 different types of plant-based foods. It's based on a study which showed those people had better gut health than people who only had about 10. And the thing with plant-based foods is there's six different categories.

So you have your whole grains in there. So they're actually good. They do feed your gut bacteria. You have your fruit, your veggies, your legumes, your, what if I'm missing? nuts and your seeds. So there's those six groups. And actually, the researchers have found that getting in each different group is really important. And the reason for that is we talk about fiber, like it's one thing, but there's like a hundred different types of fibers. And then the

other things that feed the gut bacteria isn't just fiber. It's these plant chemicals. People might have heard of things like polyphenols and phytochemicals. There's, you know, thousands and thousands of them in each different category. So if we're skipping, out on one of the food groups like your grains, you know, we're missing feeding a group of gut bacteria that really prefer to have some grains. So actually cutting these things out is thought to be quite negative for your overall gut. In terms of gluten, now this is a really interesting one. Yes, if you have celiac disease, that's an autoimmune condition to gluten, that we absolutely know you need to be super strict, cut out every little bit of gluten, even use a different toaster to someone

else because even a crumb can do damage. And then there's a category of people who have what we call non-celiac gluten sensitivity. So they've got like a gluten sensitivity. And the research around this is really interesting. It's coming out that we think maybe between 2 to 5% of people might actually have this. And what we think is that it's not like it doesn't really involve the immune system. It's some sort of intolerance. But actually, as you've highlighted, probably about 30 to 40% of people are cutting out gluten.

when they certainly don't need to. So what we're seeing is that, yes, if you just have only gluten-containing grains like wheat, just eat nothing but wheat, that's probably not the best thing, but not because of the gluten, just because you're not getting in all the other plant chemicals, like the different ones in chemoire and buckwheat and millet.

So it's not about being strict gluten-free. In fact, there has been studies to show that people who just rely on gluten-free products actually I do have different and less diverse gut bacteria, which is a negative thing. And that's because a lot of like the processed gluten-free things add a whole lot of added sugars and fats in it and a lower in fibre. So my premise there is always, unless you've got one of these diagnosed conditions, always try to have many different types of grains.

Some gluten, some not gluten, rather than having like the processed grains. And then the dairy one, again, is another really interesting one. I think if you look in a non-biased stance on this topic, I would say that fermented dairy, so things like live yogurt and kathia, have good evidence to support having them in your diet of having a health benefit. I think kind of non-fermented dairy,

I think if you enjoy it, have it in small amounts. Don't drink nothing but milk all day long. Get that diversity in there. it doesn't look like it's deadly harmful at all, and it's got a good source of protein and calcium and things like that. So it's fine to have, but I think if we're talking purely on health, I always go the fermented dairy root, which essentially means that they've used microbes to kind of help break down some of the things like the proteins and the fats and produce beneficial chemicals. I really want to hear your take on food combining. Food combining is something

that has really taken off in, again, the kind of influencer, wellness, world. I don't really know the specifics of it, but I get a lot of young women. I think they're younger influencers who really promote this, who say, you know, well, so-and-so says to only eat fruit until 12 and to not eat a starch with a protein, but I feel terrible. What should I do? What is the science behind, is there science behind food combining? And what is the reality of it? Yeah, unfortunately not. Aerovedic methodologies and beliefs, which is more of a religion, talk more about the food combining, but there is no scientific evidence to say that you can't have your fruit with your proteins. And if we think about digestion, they all kind of go into our gut and it works like a

washing machine. It completely is fine to combine those sorts of things. In fact, we do actually know food combining can be beneficial because there's like a synergistic effect. And An example of that is things like tomatoes. So tomatoes are really good in this plant chemical called lycopene. Now, lycopene has been trained in clinical trials to actually help protect our skin from UV damage. But the lichapine is not that well absorbed by our body on its own. So what we know is adding a little bit of fat to the tomatoes actually can increase our body's ability to absorb that lachapine and therefore that look after our skin. So if you're having tomatoes, have a little bit of extra virgin oil on them or other things like watermelon,

which has got lachapine, and add some live Greek yoga on it with a little bit of fat in there. So food combining in that respect actually is thought to be beneficial to help maximise absorption. There is, you know, a little bit of evidence around food combining if you are vegan to get in your right amount of, we call them amino acids. So they're like the building blocks of protein. So most plant-based foods are what we call a non-complete source of protein. So they've got building blocks of protein in them, but they just don't have the essential ones that humans can't make.

So what they recommend is things like, you know, if you're having a grain, you know, also add in a legume at the same time. You know, it can be across the day, it doesn't even necessarily need to be within one meal. But what I find in clinical practice, unless you're like an elite athlete, you don't necessarily need to make that conscious effort to combine them and really bog up on that concept. As long as you're just whenever you're eating, you're thinking about getting in that

diverse range of plant-based food from those six different groups, you're likely going to be getting in the right combining of those amino acids if you are 100% plant-based, i.e. vegan. Now, on that note, actually, for good gut health, you don't need to go to the extreme to be vegan. if you want to for cultural religious reasons, environmental, you know, animal cruelty, all that, so I totally respect that. But health, you know, in isolation, we don't see that being vegan makes you any healthier. And we know that if you are going vegan, you need to be a little bit more savvy about what nutrients you take in. And again, I talk more about that in the book, but things like your amygias free,

you need to be really conscious of where you're getting that because, yes, there are plant-based sources of amegas-free, like cheers, seeds and tofu and walnuts, but actually the type of omega-3 is not as effective as the type of omega-3 found in things like a fatty fish. So you just need to have your wits about you if you want to go 100% plant-based to get in all of the nutrition because we know our gut bacteria actually really love omega-3. Well, everybody, you heard it here first on food combining. It's like so crazy. I get that question all the time. So I'm happy to hear it the science. it. Are there any myths or trends that you see all over social media that are prevalent or

anywhere that you would like to debunk for us? Yeah. I think one which we've kind of touched on is that for good gut health, you have to have a restrictive diet. It's honestly not the case. What we see, it's more about what you're adding into your diet than what you're taking out. Now, a good example of that is things like sugar, the S word that everyone's super scared of. Now, having loads of added sugar in your diet is definitely not a good idea. But the reason for that isn't because sugar is like killing your gut bacteria. In fact, sugar is digested so high up your digestive tract. It really doesn't touch most of your gut bacteria because they live in the low part of your 9-meter digestive tract,

whereas, you know, table sugars absorb really higher. But the thing about added sugar is if you fill up on these added sugar foods, then you're kind of too full to get in all your different types of plant-based foods. So you're not going to hit your 30 different types of plants. You're not going to get enough fiber in, etc. So actually, you know, having small amounts of added sugar is not detrimental for you got if you're adding in loads of those plant-based foods and hitting your targets there. And I think that's really important for people's relationship with food

because as soon as we start to actually fear our food, not only does that kind of disrupt our relationship with food, which, you know, end of the day, food should be enjoyed. You know, it's a fun thing to eat. But also we certainly do see this in clinical trials, and that's why we blind people to different interventions. If someone believes that a food is going to do them bad and they ingest it, often they physically get gut symptoms.

And, you know, people go, oh, are they crazy? And it's like, no, it's just literally the way our body works. For example, if you get food poisoning to chicken, often people can't even face chicken for another year or so because it just makes them want to throw up, even though the new chicken isn't contaminated. It's our body's protective mechanism. It's just the power of our mind.

And, you know, like I said, we do this in clinical trials. Often when we're testing things like gluten intolerances, we make sure we do that blinded. And in fact, in love your gut, when I get people to attest for some, you know, really basic, I guess, food intolerances at home, I get them to blind themselves. So get their friends and family to help them because it's the belief. If they think that this product has gluten in it and they think gluten is bad for them, that can physically induce symptoms. So we try to take that effect out and that the effect is called

the placebo effect. It's just a science word, which means if you believe something's going to do you bad, it will do you bad. And the opposite of that is the placebo effect. If you think something's going to do you good, often you feel better. Right. That's fascinating. So you talked so much about fiber. Is there a number that everybody should be aiming to hit every day? Yeah. So most international kind of bodies suggest getting in 30 grams of fiber a day. Now in the in the US, I think you guys, on average get around 15 grams of fiber. So, you know, a lot more work to do. But most Western countries, you know, we're having less than 20 grand. Interestingly, though, the clinical trial that I mentioned at the very start about how they nourished it up through the right nutrition

and that improved people's mental health, they had 50 grams of fiber per day. So it really depends on where you're currently at. Now, if you're having a low fiber diet and you tried to get 30 or 50 grams in a couple of weeks. Let me tell you now, you're going to get some pretty uncomfortable gut symptoms. And the thing is, because the fiber, human cells can't digest it. So it goes through our digestive tract, mostly undigested, until it makes its way to the last 1.5 meters. And that is where we have most of our GM, our gut microbes living in there.

And it's those microbes that unlike human cells, actually contain the enzymes to break down that fiber. So fiber feeds of gut bacteria. And when they do, they produce a range of those really beneficial chemicals, like I said, that helps support the strength of the gut lining. But they also produce a bit of gas, which is completely normal. However, if you kind of go from starving your gut bacteria to loading them up on fiber, they binge it and they have a party and they get a bit too active. And that can trigger things like a little bit of uncomfortable bloating and and flatulence and stuff like that. The thing is your gut is incredible. of adjusting.

So what I recommend, and I talk again more about this in the book in terms of people want step-by-step guidance, but you would start to increase your plant-based foods by just one serve per week. And then over time, you slowly increase that to hit your 30-gram target. And, you know, the sky is the limit. Go up to 50 grams. Our ancestors, all used to have like 100 grams. But it's about slow and steady.

Otherwise, people get put off having more fiber in their diet. Right. Amazing. Well, where can everybody get your book and where can everybody find you? So, yeah, the book is coming out on 2nd of March. So hopefully the time this comes out, it will nearly be there. If it's not, you can certainly pre-order. And if you do pre-order, you actually get a free immune guide. So make sure, if you've got to get the book anyway, pre-order it so you get that free guide, which talks about like non-nonsense tips for really maximizing your immune system. But otherwise, all the good bookstores in the U.S. and Canada,

It's called Love Your Gut and obviously things like Amazon as well. And if you're not ready to go there yet, you can check us out at the guthealthdoctor.com. Perfect. Well, thank you so much. And this is actually going to be out, I think, the third. So right around. Yeah, perfect timing. Thank you so much for coming on. That was fascinating. Thank you. See you later. I hope you enjoyed that episode. If you liked it and if you like the show in general, please take a second. to rate, review, and subscribe. It goes a long way, and it's actually the best way to support the show. Also, if you want to see more about each episode, you can head over to The Blonde Files podcast on Instagram. I'm always posting about each episode there or over on my personal page at Ariel Laurie.