wellRED podcast - #25 - Accidental Ham, Cute Baby Demons, and David Smalley!

Episode Date: July 26, 2017

This week features an interview with our good buddy David Smalley! (We also answer some of our mail!)David Smalley is a podcast host, speaker, activist, author, and comedian, combining his love for entertainment and media with his passion for skepticism, truth, and equality, by starting Dogma Debate, a podcast focused on educating the public with humor and unique, respectful discussions.David has appeared on The Adam Carolla Show, Mohr Stories w/ Jay Mohr, CNN, FOX, NewsMaxTV, and many radio shows and podcasts, encouraging humanism and extending peaceful and respectful challenges to dogmatic claims. On this episode we spent way too much time talking about eating meat, which he's already back to doing anyway. David will be on stage with Sam Harris in Toronto Sept 17th. DogmaDebate.com for more info.  For OUR tickets, go to wellREDcomedy.com Sign up for the newsletter, check out our t shirts, and buy our book! Love ya, Skeeeeewwww!

And we thank them for sponsoring the show. Well, no, I'll just go ahead. I mean, look, I'm money dumb. Y'all know that. I've been money dumb ever, since ever, my whole life. And the modern world makes it even harder to not be money dumb, in my opinion. Because used to, you, like, had to write down everything you spent or you wouldn't know nothing. But now you got apps and stuff on your phone.

It's just like, you can just, it makes it easier to lose count of, well, your count, the count every month, how much you're spending. A lot of people don't even know how much they spend on a per month basis. I'm not going to lie, I can be one of those people. Like, let me ask you right now, skewers out, whatnot, sorry, well-read people, people across the skew universe, I should say. Do you even know how many subscriptions that you actively pay for every month or every year? Do you even know? Do you know how much you spend on takeout or delivery,

getting a paid chauffeur for your chicken low mane? Because that's a thing that we do in this society. Do you know how much you spend on that? It's probably more than you think. But now there's an app designed to help you manage your money better, and it's called Rocket Money. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions,

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So I was like, I should know Spanish. I'll learn Spanish. and I've just been paying to learn Spanish without practicing any Spanish for, you know, pertinent two years now or something like that. Also, a fun one, I'd said it before, but I got an app, lovely little app where you could, you know,

put your friend's faces onto funny reaction gifts and stuff like that. So obviously I got it so I could put Corey's face on those two, those two like twins from the Tim Burton Alice in Wonderland movies. You know, those weren't a little like the Q-ball-looking twin fellas. Yeah, so that was money. What was that a reply gift for? Just when I did something stupid.

Something fat, I think, and stupid. Something both fat and stupid. But anyway, that was money well spent at first, but then I quit using it and was still paying for it and forgotten. If it wasn't for Rocket Money, I never would have even figured it out. So shout out to them. They help. If you're money dumb like me, Rocket Money can help.

So cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to RocketMoney. dot com slash well read today that's rocket money.com slash well r e d rocketmoney.com slash well read and we thank them for sponsoring this episode of the podcast they're the what's up well reders cho here ticket update of course all tickets can be grabbed at well read comedy dot com w e l l r ed comedy dot com spelled just like the podcast on sale now kansas city St. Louis, Syracuse, Albany, Hartford, Boston, Lexington.

That is Kentucky, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York, New York, Missouri, Missouri. You know where they are. It's going to be a lot of fun. We can't wait to come see you guys. September dates to be announced in a couple weeks. San Francisco, Sacramento, San Jose, San Diego, Los Angeles, a whole bunch of places. And the rest of the new fall tour is going to be announced on our newsletter for our subscribers on August 7th. So go to our website, well-readcomedy.

Sign up for our newsletter because you find out where we're going to be before anybody else and can get tickets before they sell out. Also, grab a copy of our book, The Liberal Redneck Manifesto, Dragon Dixie Out of the Dark. Thank you for listening to the podcast. Remember to tell your friends to download and subscribe and leave us a rating. It really helps. Appreciate you. Askew.

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Well-red podcast. Here we are. we are, Corey. Hey, buddy. Well, we're kind of here. We're here, but we're separately here. What I mean is, for the first time, we are coming to you remotely.

Corey and I are not together right now. I'm in California. Where are you at, Corey? I'm here in Chickamauga, Georgia, just hating everything. Yeah, it's easy to do at the moment because this week's episode of the podcast, like a few of them beforehand has been a master class in Ravenry from the universe. We have had fits trying to do this thing because it's the first time we've done it remotely. Let us make something very clear.

There are plenty of podcasts and plenty of podcast hosts out there who do remote episodes all the time and without any trouble at all. it is absolutely us. I don't think it's a very difficult thing. We just can't figure it. No, I don't think so at all. But as I was telling you earlier, it's taken me, this is now our 25th episode, it has taken me 25 episodes just to figure out how to do it the regular goddamn way.

Right. And so on that note, you may have noticed that we've been right at 90 seconds now into this episode without Drew yelling over the top of either me or Corey to tell us how wrong we are about something. That is because Drew is no longer with us. He was hit by bus. Very sad. He was laid to rest in Morgan County yesterday. But I'm, you know, I think we could soldier on without him.

I think it'll be fine. Yeah. Now, Drew is not dead, but. we on the outside yeah right we had when we tried to do this one of the first times

Drew had said you know his his Wi-Fi wasn't great where he was at and also there was a lot of background noise but he couldn't do anything about it just couldn't be helped because he's in Queens New York at his place and when Corey went to edit and put together

the episode Drew's audio was just straight up unusable. Is that right, Corey? Yeah, and let me say this. It normally takes me about, I don't know, however long the episode is to kind of listen through it and make sure there's no fuckery afoot to do the podcast. Normally not even that long.

It takes me about maybe, you know, top to bottom from uploading it to mastering it, I mean, maybe an hour and 15 minutes. I've literally been up since 8 o'clock this morning and it is now 9.30 at night here. I've just been trying so hard to make something of it. And it just, man, it was just, yeah, it sucked. So we thought since Drew's feed in particular was so jacked up and everything, and he had sort of given us a forewarning that it was circumstances beyond his control,

we had to record something because we didn't, I mean, we didn't have anything. So we thought we'd just leave Drew out and also not tell him. So when this podcast goes live on Wednesday, like, he thinks he's on it. He thinks he's on the episode because we've recorded or whatever. We're not going to tell him otherwise just because we just want to see what happens. I do want to see how long it takes him to notice. Right.

And what his reaction is because it might, hopefully it'll be funny. Yeah. I think somebody's going to have to tell him like it'll be because somebody's like, where the hell are you at, Drew? That's absolutely what will happen. Somebody will tweet at him or whatever. Hey, matter of fact, if you're listening, right now, don't tweet

at him. Yeah, don't. Don't say anything to him on social media and we'll just we'll see how long it takes him to find out that he's not on this episode if he ever does at all. In fact, go a step further, unfollow him

on all forms of media. Yeah. He deserves nothing. Okay. I would also like to point out one thing that I think is important. This is not our preferred method. We're not doing this remote. We're not doing this remote podcast because we're like, cool, this is the way we're going to

do it going forward. That's no, please believe that's not the case. We want to be together. This just happens to be, again, for the first time, and this is our 25th episode, this happens to be the first time in 25 weeks that we weren't able to be together, which is, you know, is a pretty amazing. It says a lot about how busy we are, but we had to do it.

So this is just what we're doing. Well, that actually is not true. But early on, what we were doing, if you recall, was I was just recording them just alone, just talking to myself. And I think I only had to do that twice, three times maximum. Oh, I didn't even know you had. I thought you only had to do it once. Well, maybe, no, I definitely, I remember doing it two specific times for sure. But it was super early on.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. In a solid 20 episodes, this is the first time we haven't been able to be together. And so, yeah, this is kind of the only option we had available to us. So we apologize and it will be back to normal next week. But you still got me and the show here and we're still going to make it hit for you a little bit, hopefully. Speaking of making it hit or attempting to, today, so I'm out here in L.A. I'm at home now, but today I've been in some office space that my writing partners, Rob, Thomas and John Inbaum have available to them working on the sitcom.

If you followed us for a while, whatever, you know that I had a development deal for a sitcom. And I thought, since it was sort of on my mind because I've been working on today, I thought people might want to hear a quick update about that because I do get asked about it at the shows and stuff pretty regularly. And basically,

I kind of knew this already, but what I've definitely had confirmed for me over the, course the last year is that it is a huge undertaking and just a very pain in the ass process, getting anything made, getting on TV. They call it Development Hell. I don't know if I qualify for Development Hell yet, but the show is in development and it's bounced around some and whatever, but it absolutely is still a thing.

We are still working on it and, you know, hope to get that. made it on the air at some point, but I just want to let everybody know it's still something that, you know, it's like I said, it's still a thing. It's very much so still in play. It just, this shit takes a long time. When I worked for the federal government, I thought, I was convinced that no entity or organization could be more like bureaucratic and inefficient than a federal government, but I think Hollywood gives it a run for its money. at times. Right.

It's a hell of a lot. Hell of a lot more fun, though. Oh, dude, without a doubt. I mean, you know, unless you are one of the people that gets to like fly murder bots or, you know, listen in on everybody's conversations around the world or whatever, you know, those government employees, that seems like that would be fun if you're, you know, evil. Yeah, honestly, if you're devoid of a soul. Yeah, well, okay, to be fair, we should say the people I think that actually like fly the drones and shit, they just, you know, soldiers who got assigned to do that or whatever.

Sure. But anyway, yeah, some government jobs hit. Mine did not. And either way, Hollywood definitely hits more for me personally. Yeah. So that's what's up with that. What's up with you? Well, you did today or the past couple days.

I bet you say today, I've been. dealing with this bullshit. Yeah, but no, past couple days, man, I've had a blast. I've hung out with my buddy, me and my buddy, Robbie and my buddy Seth the other night. I don't know how excited this is going to be to our listeners, but I think you'll appreciate it. We stayed up for eight hours drunker than pissed watching old Kimbo slice fights. Hell yeah. I mean, those videos hit.

Yeah, which that turned into watching Rick Flair videos, which turned into watching Rick Flair videos, which turned into watching Randy Savage videos, which turned into a heated debate over who was the greatest hill of all time. And, you know, again, we got blistered drunk and did nothing but sit on my couch and click on YouTube. But it was, I had a ball. And then I went, what's that? Who did y'all, who do you think was the best hill of all time? I ended up coming out with Savage, man.

Because, like, I've always wanted to say Rick Flair, and I'm actually really glad Drew ain't here right now because he'd be arguing me to the death. but man once you just compare the videos there just ain't nobody like macho man dude yeah that's definitely true i'm trying to think like who i like when i was actually super interested like who i just absolutely hated because i mean that's the point of a heel is to make you hate them and when i was a kid those feelings were genuine so yeah i guess but though it's weird because like i always equally liked macho man as much as i did holkogen and they were supposed to be the antithesis of each other or whatever.

Yeah, well, see, that's what I'm saying is, like, I was actually, like, when you first said that, I was approaching it in my head sort of differently because, I mean, that's, you got your heels and your faces, right? And the heels are the bad guys and the faces are the good guys. At least that's the way, you know, that they're written. Right. So when I think of heels, like, I was trying to think of the ones that most effectively made everybody hate them.

And I know that almost every wrestler has been around forever. They do heel turns. You know, they go back and forth all the time, and I realize that. But I always loved both macho man and Rick Flares. So I was trying to, I was thinking of more, you know. Well, let me rephrase. One I actually really did not like. Let me rephrase what I said.

I didn't actually, we weren't, the discussion wasn't who was the best hill. It was actually who was the best showman. It's just the people I mentioned were kind of healy, so that word came out. It was really just who, because, because the. rock came up in conversation too because like dude the rock you know there's not many people did it better than the rock i mean the rock was say what you will i know there's people like well he's kind of new school the old school guys are better but dude the rock was one of the most electrifying men in sports you know oh dude without a doubt i mean yeah i loved the rock back that back then but

yeah i mean but the rock was absolutely not a hill though which i no no no and it because i didn't yeah i You're talking like showmanship or whatever. I mean, yeah, the two you named are definitely right up there near the top. It's hard to be. Speaking of heels and entertainment, Spicy resigned this week. Oh, the Spice Man. Yeah.

He'll probably end up being in the WWE. I mean, that would help for me. I love to get some sweet gym music or something. something like that. For sure. So, you know, I'm sure people are listening, you know, are aware, but evidently he, he resigned over, he had a problem with Trump hiring that Anthony Scaramucci. Tony Scaramucci is his communications director.

And so he resigned over it because on that one particular thing, especially, as principles, you know what I mean? Yeah, I was about to say, man, like, honest to God, at this point, I was like, if you're in the administration, I'm like, all right, you're just good with anything, like whatever. Right. Yeah, exactly. And I, yeah, actually, I tweeted that after he, when he was, what I just said a minute

because I'm, you know, recycling my fucking tweets on here. That's how I'd do it. But, yeah, I'd said, like, you know, on this one particular thing, I'm a principal man and I will not be moved, you know. I will not have a goddamn Italian in the White House. But, I mean, I think most people accepted what it really come down to was that that guy's a threat to him, you know, in that department or whatever. Like, it was more like a, it wasn't a scrupulous thing. I don't know.

Because, like, you said nothing with them is at this, you know, how could it be? That really sucks because we're missing the opportunity for them when they're side by side to call them spicy and the meatball. which really sucks. Yeah. Tony. Tony, uh, Tony, shit, I don't know.

I was trying to think of the good. I can neither. Tony Money Bags and the Spice Man. Exactly. God damn it. That'd be a Phenot. I love to watch them beat the shit out of each other. Yeah.

So that happened and I don't know how you felt about it, but I, uh, I don't know. The only reason I gave much of a shit at all is because spicy, I did think spicy was pretty entertaining and I mean I think most people agree because I mean shit

Melissa McCarthy on Saturday Night Live and all that but I mean he did often crack me up with how ridiculous he was even in that administration and he's also the only one in that administration that I ever came close to feeling sorry for at times just because of like I mean Jesus Christ

that's one of the hardest jobs on earth right now with fucking Trump in there right you know somebody's got to to do that job. And that job sucks. But, you know, having said that, I mean, he's still a piece of shit to hell with him. But like, so I feel him bad for him. Fuck that. I don't. But whoever's in that role, you know, old Huckabee Sanders is sorry ass, I don't feel bad for them. But I definitely do not envy them. You know, being a job, I guess is what I'm saying. Like, I don't, I don't

envy anybody in that job. But yeah, I don't pity these lizards. because they lizards and, you know, fuck them or whatever. Well, not at all. But I got mixed feelings on it, too, because I'm like, all right. So I'm because I'm a liberal, I'm supposed to naturally just hate anyone who's in the Trump administration. I know that's what's supposed to happen. So, like, I'm supposed to be like, all right, this Tony Sketa-Mucci dude, like, fuck him. But then at the same time, it's like, okay, well, Spicey said he don't hit for him.

So does that mean? Right. You know what I'm saying? What does that fucking mean? Yeah. Does that mean Tony's. The reason Spicey don't like him is because maybe this guy's actually a good person and that don't hit for Spice because, you know, the enemy, what is the enemy? My enemy is my friend?

Right. I hear you, but like, you know, Luke Ryan might think Jason Al Dane's a queer, you know. I like that. No, I was. Either one of them, you know, hits or whatever. No, and I hear you. And I was obviously just trying to be funny because, like, that person in that job, like, I don't. That person in that job, like, I don't ever believe, like, you know,

Spicey, of course probably doesn't share a lot of politics with Trump. Like, that ain't his job. His job is not to really have an opinion. It's to make Trump's opinion seem like it's not straight out of the book of revelations. Right, which, yeah, that's a hard job. And then also, not only is that what he has to do is somehow spin Trump's insanity into something remotely palatable to the public. Right after he does that,

Trump himself will go on fucking Twitter and directly contradict everything you just said or whatever, you know, that kind of thing. Like, I mean, yeah, that job, dude, fuck that job. Like, buddy, for sure. Shit. But anyway, fuck that, fuck him. Yeah, I'm with you.

I'd like to see him go into pro wrestling now. Yeah, they could be great. Particularly as a, like, a Paul Bearer type, like manager but who also gets like barrels dropped on him at you know like chairs out of the

get thrown out of the ring and always hit him in the face and stuff like that yeah just tased in the back while he's trying to eat lasagna I bet he's got I bet he could be I bet he could have a pretty strong pratfall game you know I bet he could yeah he might have a future in that

we ain't seen the last of my man, spicy. I promise you that. All right. So we decided, and I don't know that we're going to, I don't know how, I don't know what to say about this exactly, because I do think this is a good idea, but I also know how we are. And I, if I say like, oh, yeah, we got a new recurring thing every week. I don't know because you know how we just, just don't say that. Well, I kind of just did. But anyway, and also, anyway, we thought we got, we wanted to answer some, uh, mail, bag things. We've got some correspondence we've received from you guys. We've been on 25 weeks and

people do send us stuff and oftentimes either on Twitter or Facebook or whatever will respond if we get to it, see it, have time, whatnot. You know, point blank. I just, I can't, I cannot possibly see every message I get because I'm just that popular, Corey. There's no way to say that that doesn't sound douchey. But I mean, sincerely, I get. I get. so many that some of them are getting it lost in the shuffle and I apologize for that but I do appreciate it see y'all don't know this but Trey actually pays me a little extra a week to go through his fan mail and so sometimes if you get a response that may just be from a drunk me because I needed the extra hundred dollars because I have a gambling problem so kidding that's not the case but we have

some we do have some mail here and you can you can mail us this is something that I do check I try to check it frequently it's a well-read potty podcast at gmail.com. Obviously spelled just like the podcast. W-E-L-L-R-E-D podcast at g-mail.com. This is where these lovely letters are coming from. Go ahead, Cho. Yeah, that's good.

All right. I have one here from Megan, who signed her name with a big old heart. We appreciate that. Hey, guys, love the book, love the podcast. Can't wait to see you on the tour in Charlotte, blah, blah, blah. And that's, by the way, she typed out blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm not being a dick.

That's been so funny. Very first fan letter we've ever read on there. And you get one sentence into it. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Blah, blah. Blah, blah. And other niceties. Anyway, on the podcast, Drew mentioned,

by the way, we wanted to read this because it was shortly directed at Drew, and he's not here. I'll be upfront about that. Anyway, on the podcast, Drew mentioned how it is sometimes difficult to reconcile the parts of oneself while being both the feminist and a lover of rap music. As one of these poor unfortunate souls, I've recently stopped listening to a lot of rap music because of the blatant sexism and objectification of women. But I really miss rap. Can you recommend some rap music that won't offend my poor bleeding heart? Thanks. Love you, Megan.

okay so yeah she said um at the end can you recommend some rap that won't offend my poor bleeding heart when you first read that let you know you went over a couple we'd gotten before we started recording whatever when you first read that one i heard the question as specifically some rap for like feminists specifically as what i thought she'd asked it's not really what she asked i guess she just meant a rap that is uh that doesn't offensive across the bowl And I mean, I don't know. I think SpongeBob's got a rap album probably or something like that. You want to try that. No, I don't like, I hear in every, I mean, you know, you have a right to not dig something and to turn it off that. You ain't got to listen to it and that's fine. You know, if it don't hit for you, it is what it is. I don't hold that against nobody.

But I've always, I mean, yeah, if you go on fuck or rap, like, you're just going to have some of that. Yeah, I mean, I hate to say, but rap is like papals, the best ones talk shit about women. That's just how... Oh, my God. That's hilarious. No, but, well, you know, and I would say, I guess my first immediate answer to this is, you know, there's plenty of female rappers. Right. And, I mean, by the way, they also be objectifying women, too, but they are a woman, so that's a woman.

so that's okay, I guess. Yeah. And so, and to try to answer the question, like, honestly, I mean, I think the anthem for that, as far as for male rappers go, is keep your head up by Tupac. I mean, that's a straight-up feminist song pretty much. He's got that whole verse in there about, you know, why do we, we're a race of men made by a woman, came from a woman,

got our name from a woman, why do we hate our women, hate our women, rape our women, all that shit. You know, a man has no right to tell a woman when and where to create a, you know, create one talking about a baby and all that. I mean, it's pretty objectively, you know, pro women. Sure. And it's also just an awesome song from one of the best rappers that ever lived. But I'm sure Megan's probably aware of that one.

But there's other, you know, also that, well, I don't know. I don't want to say this because he definitely has some of that shit in some of his songs. But like, J. Cole's last album, Four Year Eyes Only, kind of got shit on by a lot of hip hop heads for, you know, being too soft or whatever because he's got songs on there about just, you know, wanting to stay at home with his baby mama and fold her clothes and feed her alma, give her almond milk to drink and all this. Admittedly, not very wrapped shit. No. But I love Jake, although, and also the last song in that album, the title track is one of my favorite songs that he ever made. So, Megan, you can check that one out if you ain't already heard it. Sure, and I haven't heard much of his stuff, but I just got into this dude named Logic.

I'm not the biggest fan in the world, but he is very good. I mean, I do like him. I'm not going to sit here and say, oh, this guy is the truth. You definitely need to check him out. But the first, you know, three or four songs I heard, I don't recall any objectification of women, but I'll be honest with you. And rap is kind of white noise to me at this point. You know, like, I don't even know if I would know it if I heard it because I'm just listening.

I don't really, I guess you get so used to it. Well, and also the other thing, too, is, I mean, at the end of the day, we are straight white men. So, like, that's why I said I was about to bring up J-Cole and I was like, I mean, no, he's got some of that. But, like, I mean, it's shitty, but it's true. Like, I don't hear that shit when I'm listening. You know what I mean? Like, I don't. Unless it's like real over the top and whatever else.

Because like you said, I just take it for granted when it comes to rap music. When that kind of shit comes out, I'm like, it just doesn't have to me. If I was a woman, I'm sure it would. Oh, yeah. If it's that real gross, misogynistic, like, you know, fuck, you know, fuck women. Women ain't nothing but bitches. You know, they can get, if it's anything gross like that, please believe, I only listen to it when I work out.

Yeah. But on that, my workout playlist is like, it's indefensible. I don't mean that in the objectifying women way, it's not like, you know, all my workout songs are like, you know,

well, whatever. What I mean is they're just, they're bad because they're just not, some of them are genuinely good songs. Most of them, though, are douchy bro type shit either rap or fucking you know cock rock or whatever just because i you know i'm sorry but i can't fucking i just i can't

deadlift to fucking wilcoe you know what i'm like i can't hear you one you got me on that i started and i don't run as much as i should but i still go on to jog every now and then something that you got me on uh that i really dig was explosions in the sky oh buddy which uh you know impossible to objectify women when you don't say shit. I never thought, and I'm a verbal dude. I'm like, words are my thing, you know, it's probably pretty obvious,

but like I'm very much so a language guy. I never, ever thought that I could hear a album that has literally no lyrics on it at all whatsoever that would make me feel as many fucking emotions as explosions in the skies album The Earth is Not a Cold Dead place which includes their most emotional song Your Hand and Mine

Which if you know anything by them That's the song you will have known But that's I've literally That song has made me cry before And there's no words in it No I know you actually You told me that one time And I thought you were full of shit

I was like, well, just Tray's on some different level than me. I don't, you know, I'm not that in tune, I guess. And then I went on a jog and I put that song on. And I just happened to be jogging around the block where my old high school was. Yeah. And I don't know if it was because that song also is in Friday Night Lights and like I was making that connection. But like, yeah, man, I fucking cried like a little butthole. Yeah.

Those are Texas guys, by the way. That band is from Texas. shout out to them. Yeah, I love those fucking dudes. But anyway, Megan, I think that's about the best we're going to be able to give you right now. But I think that there's definitely you can find some shit out there if you know where to look. It's just, we don't.

Yeah, and that's exactly what it is shit. I'm just kidding. Okay, next question. Let's see, this is from Shannon. Shannon says, I had a silly question to ask, but then I thought about this one. How do you all feel about manners,

i.e. saying, yes, ma'am, et cetera. One is the practice of manners dying. Two, should slash does that matter. Thank you all for the laughs as well as the deep thoughts. And please keep it up. That's from Shannon. Okay, so Shannon's asking about manners, yes, ma'am, and such. I personally, I do think they matter,

but I kind of understand what she's getting at in terms of like, I didn't ever realize this. what happened. But when I moved outside of the South, like when I lived in New York for a little bit, is the first time I realized that sometimes people don't want to be called ma'am. And I did not know that was a thing. Right. I've had, and I didn't, I couldn't ever get a grasp on whether it was an age thing or not. And I would have to tell people I was like, they're like, what, ma'am, I'm not fucking ma'am. I'm not old and I did it. And I was like, yo, it's not, has nothing to do with age. Like, I've probably, I say yes, ma'am to people.

to girls younger than me. Like that has nothing, you know, that has nothing to do with it. That's just how I was brought up to speak. And now I kept saying that. I was like, that's just how I was raised. That's just how I was raised. And I was like, well, you know, there's plenty of people I know that say that. And that don't mean they're right.

Right. Yeah, I think it also goes a little bit beyond that with some of that stuff. And we did not purposefully choose letters that touch on feminism. And not, you know, you might think we did. that just to annoy Drew because he's not here and that's, you know, his thing. I mean, not that whatever. Men cores down with Wimmers too, but I'm saying Drew is the one who goes fully in on these kinds of topics and he's not here right now.

But I, in line with what you were just saying, you know, like some of that shit that to me, again, straight white guy, to me it just, it really is just like polite or whatever or things like holding a door or pulling a chair out or opening, you know what I mean, opening a car door and that kind of stuff. There's some people that that, you know, that don't hit for them because they're like, I don't fucking need you to open my door for me or whatever kind of stuff. Yeah, it's like a, it's like a, I don't know. Right, right.

But like to me, patriarchy thing. I mean, yeah, I guess. And I'm saying I also struggle with that because I'm like, man, that's just like, that's just politeness, you know, like it's not, but I mean, I get, I get the logic behind it or whatever, I guess, but I mean, I'm saying, I think that has a lot to do with, so, you know, that makes me apprehensive about doing shit like that, you know what I mean, unless it's for like somebody I know, but I mean, I still do just because that's also I was raised or whatever, but like, you know, yeah, it's weird, bravely wild out there, I guess. Well, like, you know, first of all, it, first of all, I was raised or whatever, but like, you know, it, first of all, off, I've held the door open for you before and vice versa. Yeah, I do it for dudes. Right. Yeah, yeah.

So to me, that ain't the thing. I meant more like opening a car door. No, no, no. I know. But hell, you've done that for me too, baby. I guess what I'm saying, this is basically the way that I feel about it, just because of where I'm from and because of like, I know how I can go the other way. I am probably always going to still do what it is that I do, such as,

Say yes, ma'am and no, ma'am. I'll probably open up my car door for you. I'll probably open up the door. I'll probably keep doing those things because I would rather err on that side than the other side. You know what I'm saying? I'd rather have somebody get mad at me and go, you don't have to do that fucking shit for me. I'm my own goddamn woman. Then I would have people be like, you know, I don't know.

I don't know. There are some women in the South that if an older woman, you don't say yes ma'am to them. They think you're being a disrespectful little fuckhead. Absolutely. So I'd rather, you know, I'd rather have some feminist punch me than some old racist lady because I guarantee that it would hurt worse when the old racist lady did. For sure. But so I feel like maybe we've, can you go back real quick and like, what did she actually ask about manners? Because I'm feeling like I'd have spun it a little bit into a feminism-centric argument or something.

That ain't even what she really meant. And we probably did just because it's a woman asking the question. She said, how do y'all feel about manners, i.e. saying, yes, ma'am, et cetera. Is the practice of manners dying? And number two, should slash, does that matter? And again, I don't, I don't fucking, I really don't know how to, because there's part of me that's like, yeah, of course it's dying. People aren't as nice as they used to be. But then I think about, well, people used to not let black people eat at restaurants.

That doesn't seem very nice. So, like, you know, I don't know, man. I have a problem with that whole, back in our day, we said yes, ma'am, and no, ma'am. And I'm like, yeah, and you also said, you also sprayed black people waterhows. So I don't know who's fucking bad. Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, yeah, I totally agree. I think, I don't know, like what we consider classical manners or whatever. Yeah, it probably is dying, but.

That's just how that goes. You know what I mean? Like language evolves too and stuff. So does that matter? I don't know. As long as people generally speaking are, you know, still decent to each other on a day-to-day basis. No, I don't really think it matters because I think, you know, that's really kind of what that boils down to. You know what I mean?

So if it's like in the future decency is not, doesn't have anything to do. was saying yes sir, yes, ma'am, or whatever, then that's fine as long as people are still being decent and everybody's kind of on the same page about it. It's basically how I feel. But I still say those things, you know, like you said, because that's just how I... Well, it's just second nature. Like, it's not even... It's like muscle memory to me, but, like, I guess, you know, if we're talking in terms of, like,

what Southerners would consider traditional manners, maybe, but I don't think manners as, you know, what the word manners actually means, I don't think that's dying. I think people are, there's still sweet people and they're still shitty people. Yeah, well, that's kind of what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, I know. That it's just, it might be expressed in a different way than like what we traditionally think of as that, but that don't mean that the underlying like human concept is dying or going away.

Yeah, because I mean people could say like, oh yeah, manners are going away because people are, you know, all people do is they're plugged into their phones and they're just on Facebook so nobody has an actual connection and yada, yada, yada, yada. But then on the other side of that, I could be like, well, actually Facebook and stuff like that actually makes it easier to share kindness because, like, with the advent of GoFundMe's and all these things, like there's people helping people on a global scale now, whereas that used to, that used to couldn't happen, you know, so. Yeah.

So, you know, I don't know. I mean, yeah, no, dude, well, on that final note, I've said for a while now, I mean, I know I've talked to you about it a ton, but like, I mean, even with Trump and all this crazy shit going on, like, if you, I mean, if you're taking a step back and really being honest about everything, this is, this is the greatest time in all of human history. You know what I mean? Because you have to think about, you have to think about what fucking came before it. You know what I mean? And like, I can't even close. Black people with water hose. Dude, before that, you know,

wasn't too long before that, they were burning women at the stake for wanting to know how numbers work. You know, like fucking, it's, I mean, dude, I'm a pretty. It's objectively better to be alive right now than it was previously for almost every demographic of person in every region of this planet. Dude, and it's not even close. Right. Like, dude, I would have to look, I know it was the 80s. I don't know the exact number, but like, it's very possible that me and you were alive when they made marital rape illegal.

Right. I know for a fact we were alive when certain southern states made interracial marriage legal. Yeah. I know that. I'm pretty sure. And I think it was one of those things where it's like federal. it was legal or whatever, but still the state didn't actually take it off the book and whatever else until like fucking Alabama was like 92 or something like that.

Yeah. So I mean, yeah, man, you got to keep that kind of shit in mind when you talk about all countries going to hell or whatever. Don't get me wrong. Yes, shit is fucking bad right now in that way. But again, you take like a global perspective. The only thing, and this might end up being the only thing that matters, so it's a very important point to make. The only

arena in which that is not true is the environment. I mean, we are fucking the planet up and if we burn the earth, then none of the shit I just said matters and that is definitely true. No arguing that at all. But like culturally, culturally, socially, philosophically, all that shit,

things are better now than they ever have been before. I don't know if that's true because you certainly can't oppress people. if no one's fucking here on earth. So that might be just the cure all. Oh, well, yeah. I mean, yeah, depending on the way you want to look at it, yeah, that might be. I mean, it definitely be the best thing that ever happened to the planet if we all died. I've been, me and you have been drunk around each other enough to where I know that eternal darkness forever isn't always the worst case scenario.

Right. You know, it sounds all right. You know, people have pointed out before it's like I was, you know, I was nothing for fucking billions of years up until the day I was born. You know what I mean? Yeah. That didn't particularly not hit for me, you know, as far as I can tell. Anyway, who the fuck knows how that all works?

Well, I'll tell you somebody who thinks they know. Yeah. No, hold on. Do we have, how many was that? Was that two? I thought we had another one, or do we do them all? Oh, shit. No, you're right.

We did have another mail bag. That's my bad. I'm an idiot. this is from and let me let me go ahead and say I'm going to get this pronunciation of the name wrong but I believe it is from Yassin and Yassine asked if y'all could live anywhere other than the American South where would you live and why pros and cons of said cities politically economically and aesthetically I'm going to throw that to you Trey first because I don't know well So I'm going to restrict this to the United States, even though that's not what Yassin said. But I have to do that because there's plenty of... Right. I've never been to Europe.

I don't know. There's plenty of places around the globe that seem like they'd be pretty sweet to live in for me. But, I mean, having never even visited, I can't make them my answer, you know, obviously. But, like, I feel like I could dig living in London or Dublin or token. or, you know, plenty of places I could think of, you know, Sydney. But, like, I don't, but I don't know because I've never been there. So restricting it to the U.S. and places I've been to and eliminating the entire South because, you know, I definitely would have near the top of my list.

Cities like Nashville, New Orleans, Atlanta, Charleston. But he said outside, or he or she said outside the South. So taking the South out, but keeping it within the U.S., I'm going to be honest, man, and, you know, asked me this question again in six months, and I might sing a completely different tune, but I think I'm living there. I think I probably would pick Los Angeles. I really do really like it here. I know a lot of people hate it, and a lot of people expect me to hate it, which I get.

I totally get why people would think that. But, like, I don't know. I don't hate it at all. I mean, I actually really dig it. I've got two young sons. it's actually a pretty kid-friendly place in a lot of ways. The public school system is a minefield, but if you know how to navigate that minefield, it's not so bad.

And also there's infinite things to do for anybody, whether you're a fucking, you know, co-keg clubgoer or a family man. There's whatever the fuck you want to do is around here. Sure. And the weather is amazing. And I mean, I'm, you know, I'm just a huge, huge, part of it for me personally is I've never wanted to do anything

else but work in show business since I was a little kid and my dad on the video store that's all they wanted to do and then starting at 12 it was comedy specifically and so I mean I don't know why then it was Hollywood over New York City

but it was in my mind that always meant Hollywood Los Angeles you know right that's what working and show business meant was being out here. So like I've been thinking about it. I mean, honestly, like, dreaming of moving out here and doing this my whole life. And I'm here now, finally, at the age of 31. And so, yeah, I think my answer is right where I am. And then if you're going to stay a place, if you're going to want to exclude that, I'll say either Seattle or Denver,

probably. Well, God damn it. I just take literally all the places you saw. I swear on my fucking life, I was like, well, Trey's probably going to say L.A. And if he doesn't, I am because I was going to say like, well, it's been more specifically Burbank, because I've spent a lot of time at your house and I really fucking enjoy it and for all the reasons that you just said. Now, when I, if you, you know, when I was a kid, I would have said New York just because I was a huge Saturday Night Live fan and that's where that went on. That's where Jerry Seinfeld lived. That was it for me.

having lived in New York, now. Now, by the way, New York, you know I love you. I love coming there. New York is absolutely one of my favorite cities on the planet. I can't live there. It's not my speed. I can't do it anymore. Now, obviously, if I had some sort of career change that, you know, like I was working for a TV show that was out there, of course I could do it.

That'd be great. But I was going to say Burbank, and then I was like, well, Trey's going to say that. So I'm going to say Seattle or Denver. I didn't elaborate on either of those at all, so why don't you elaborate on one or both of those, why you say those? And I had very specific reasons for both of those. And Denver, my specific reason, and I think you may share this, was because the state of Colorado has a lot of similarities with the South. You know, when we were out there in Denver, well, obviously, you know, anywhere, we say anywhere rural. is going to kind of remind you the South, and that's true.

But it ain't too far out of Denver that you start seeing trailer parks and motherfuckers. And, you know, it feels like home. Also, huge steak fan, and they have some of the best, they have some of the best steakhouses. They also, and I know that this isn't going to hit for you because you, like, you really don't like them. But, like, they do have a professional football team, a professional basketball team. I would love to, if I'm going to have to move somewhere else, going to be where I can see a goddamn ballgame. And, you know, Denver's got some of the best.

Seattle was for every reason that I just mentioned, because Washington State also has a bunch of red asses, but also their seafood is fire as a motherfucker. Mm-hmm. So, like that. I love Seattle. I love both those. Also, you know, recently we and I in particular spent some time in Chicago

for the first time of my life. and I like Chicago a lot too. But I don't know that I could ever, I've said before, and I know it's like a seem silly to people, but like, I mean, if you're giving me this, hey, pick literally anywhere you want to live, I'm not going to pick anywhere that gets that fucking cold for that long. I'm just not.

Like if I'm picking my dream place to live, I'm not going to pick anywhere, you know, in the north and not because of the Yankees, because of the cold. I just, I can't fuck with that. And I'll be honest with the rest of my life there, I can't do that. I'll be honest with you, man, now that you just brought up weather, I wasn't even really thinking about that. Seattle's weather.

Yeah, no. I mean, yeah. It's simply because I'm a golfer and I'm not golfing the rain. I'll golf in the cold, fine. I mean, I'd rather not, but I can. But golfing in the rain is absolutely miserable, and it rains a shit done there. So I guess with that all being said, fuck you. I'm coming to Burbank.

Yeah, well, I mean, how it hits. Yeah. Well, that was my first choice. I've been begging you to move out of here. I'm coming. I'm coming. Anyway. I get this marriage bullshit under.

Sorry, she's literally in the next room. I mean, I love you, baby. I can't wait for our wedding. So thank y'all for the questions. And like I said,

we'll, you know how we are about committing to something. But I think, you know, we'll keep, we're definitely going to keep reading them. And, you know, like one of strikes our fancy.

We'll talk about it on here. so keep them coming. Having said that, speaking of moving to Los Angeles, a guy who I met last year doing his podcast, me and him ended up moving to L.A. at about the exact same time, like literally four days removed from each other without planning it at all,

also from the South. He moved from Texas. His name's David Smalley, and he hosts a very popular, I don't know if atheist podcast is the right way to put it, but it's a religion-centric podcast He is an atheist. It's called Dogma Debate.

It's a very good podcast. He's had plenty of luminaries on. Everybody from, you know, Richard Dawkins to Neil deGrasse Tyson to your boy. It's a good podcast. Check it out. I got to know David. I like David. Like I said, he's from Texas.

Yeah, he moved out here. We agree on a lot of shit. So I asked him if he'd be interested in doing ours, and he was kind enough to do so. He came over to my place in Burbank on a weekend when Corey and Drew were in town and we sat down in my guest house to ostensibly to talk mostly about religion but we he said something that near the beginning of it that uh sort of got us going and we spent quite a bit of time on that so um yeah this might be a little divisive but i think y'all find it interesting if nothing else so uh check out david's podcast dogman debate and listen to this

interview and we hope you like it. Dr. Will Beapack for this. So enjoy our good friend David Smalley. Excuse you. Well, well, all right, everybody, before we get into this interview, which will indeed hit, we wanted to take a brief moment to tell you all about our friends at Casper mattresses. The Casper mattress is an obsessively engineered mattress that you can get at a shockingly fair price. And here's why I care about this. Me and Corey both, if you know anything about us, especially if you know us in real life, you know that we like to sloth. We like to waller in our own filth. We like to lay around.

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Terms and conditions apply like they do with anything, but that's a pretty dadgum good deal. Absolutely. So get on there. Use the offer code well-read and let us make sleeping hit for you. now back to the show excuse well well

well there's Kevin said something about me being the president CEO of Trey Crowder Enterprises I don't remember how it was relevant

but it's just a joke you made and Corey was like well as long as I could be the chief hitting officer and then me and him said at the same time but as he said it he almost had a seizure

he was like, I'll be the chief hitting officer. Cho! I just, like, came out, and it was, we all cracked up at that and have literally called him Cho ever since. It's kind of taken on a life of its own, though, since then. Yeah, during our meeting greet last night, a fan walked up, and as soon as he got the table, he looked at me, he goes, it's the motherfucking Cho! And I was like, all right, here we go. That's what I am now.

We're going. Basically, usually, like, is somebody we're recording? Yeah. It's basically just anybody that, uh, anybody that, uh, lives to hit all that they're they're motivated by the hits and you know by hit we mean uh anything that is fun examples core john daily governor chris christie me chose not necessarily things that hit right but chrissey don't hit wait did did you mean that dude from canada i absolutely did rob ford rob for i don't know because he's fat yeah but i mean i know i did

mean Rob Ford. I don't know why Chris. I knew you meant Rob Ford. Because he's a fat fuck politician. Right. But not a... He's a barme-ass motherfucker. Christy, yeah, for sure. That's... Okay. Jesus. Hey, everybody. All right. Hold on. I just say we're recording. We don't have to put any of that shit in. I know that, but I'm saying... We need to get started. Okay. And I mean, we have. So, hey, everybody, here we are. Thanks for joining us again.

As always, on the well-read podcast. What? It's weird when you do the... Hey, everybody. Like, after. You know what I mean? Like, when he when he leaves that front part in as he usually does, and then you do that, it's weird in a good way. I'm about saying. It feels special. No, I don't.

We go through this every goddamn time. No, I don't. I don't leave that part in. You should. You should, and then they're going to feel special like they heard some shit they weren't supposed to heat. I love it when you do it.

It's fine. Yeah. I mean, yeah. It's like the hidden track on the album you like. It's just not supposed to be there. Yeah, that other, that fourth voice you hear, that,

uh, that, uh, soothing oak and baritone that you hear over there, um, is my, My good buddy and podcaster extraordinaire, Mr. David Smiley. How you doing, David? Well, hello there.

Yeah. What's that? Thanks for joining us, man. I've been up, I wanted to, the very next time they were out here, and we could do this. I wanted to make it a priority to get you to do this. So I'm glad it worked out. Thanks for coming over. That's awesome.

I'm glad to be here. For everybody listening, and I'm going to let you, you know, give a little more background info on yourself, but I found I got to know David through. early on in this whole going viral processing shit for me. So last year, 2016, it was summertime, right? I think so, yeah. David reached out to me. I said, I've got this podcast.

It's called Dogma Debate. And I was wondering if you'd like to call in and do it. I was like, yeah, sure, of course. I did it. We talked for, I mean, an hour or more, right? And it was a great conversation. And then David came to our show that we had in Dallas, Texas. David lived in Texas at the time.

We talked to him there, met in person. Then me and David totally randomly, neither one of us even knew this was happening, I don't think. We moved from the South, Texas and me from Tennessee, to Southern California at basically the exact same time, like less than a week apart. It was like two days or something. We moved our whole families out here and took that plunge.

And we've hung out a few times since then. You very graciously put me on the show at the comedy store, the dog of debate live that was an awesome night jay more was there jmore was there that was a sweetheart that guy yeah i couldn't believe how nice that guy was man i know i'm not gonna lie to you man i was like a little intimidated because i don't know if you'd know this but jay more actually has a bit of a reputation among comedians for being uh you know difficult or whatever yeah i've heard that and i expected and i'm i'm you know i'm the new guy in town whatever i thought if even if he even knew me at all like if you told him about me or whatever i kind of expected you know some like

uh, senior to freshman ball busting type shit. You know, I thought he'd go in on me or whatever. And dude, I mean, like I said, literally one of the nicest comedians that I've ever personally met my life.

He was such a fucking sweetheart to me. But that was an awesome night. And, um, I remember in the green room, you, um, you guys talk for just a few minutes and he was like,

hey man, can I give you my phone number? And then he was like, let me just see your phone. I'll put my phone number in there. You handed him the phone. He starts putting his number in and you looked at me like, oh my God.

Yeah, no. Is this happening right now? He was cool as hell, man. And I have had a lot of experiences like that over the past year, and it's always wild to me every time. But anyway, so we've gotten to know each other fairly well. Now I did your show again. It's always a good time.

And so now you've been kind enough to reciprocate and come on hours. Absolutely. Why don't you tell Corey and Drew and everybody listening a little more about dogma debate, A, what it is, how it got started, how long you've been doing it, you know, just some background on it. Yeah, sure. comedy's a part of what I do as well, but it's not the focus

or it hasn't been in the past. That's true. I do want to say, David did, he did time on state in prison too, maybe, I don't know. Both,

yeah. On stage at the comedy store that night and acquitted himself very well. I got called back and ended up doing a show in the main room of the comedy store too just two weeks ago. Oh,

well, now I hate you here, you texted me about, and I was out of town. You said the comedy store. I didn't even know you meant the main store. stage. Yeah, I was on the main stage, man. That is fucking killer.

How'd that go? Got a whole six minutes. It went great because I talked about my redneck ass family and how they sound even more redneck when now that I'm in California and been here for a while. When I call back home or visit, it's a totally different experience. I did a whole impersonation of my family. They loved it, man. One thing you could do to make people laugh in California is shit on rednecks.

Yeah. Have you guys noticed? Yeah. So that's not our whole thing, but that's definitely we make a lot of redneck jokes. and it's weird. Since you brought that up, we've actually talked a lot about how. And we all three,

I felt this like independently of each other, uh, it's weird. When I do my like redneck material in the south, and it's all material about like my background or where I'm from or whatever, but I have a redneck background. So it's redneck jokes.

And when I do them in the south, I love it. And when the crowd loves it, I love it because I know that they're like laughing with me. They're in on it. They get it completely. And it feels. was great and I don't have any qualms about it at all.

When I do it in L.A. or in Portland or San Francisco or wherever, it's a, and it's just, they're still laughing. Yeah. But it's like, me, I internalize it. I feel it differently. Like, it's weird, you're a comedian and they laugh,

but I'm kind of like, you motherfucker. You know what it's like, you're laughing at me to the point where, and I know we all three do this, like, I alter some of my jokes a little bit. I want to do not lean into it as hard when I'm outside the South because I don't want to feel like I'm just piling on. And this isn't, I mean, this isn't at all, don't take this in any way.

Like, you said, I wouldn't have done that. And the reason why, and it's me, it's me, I'd have just been like, man, like, at the very least, I got to do these jokes in Texas first. Because for me, and again, it's me. It's not like how, this is just me internalizing too much shit and, like, having that weird chip on my shoulder about being from the South. It's like Trey said, man, they start laughing and all of a sudden, I'll be like, like, wait a minute.

Fuck these people. Yeah. And so part of the reason I won't do it is I know if I do do it, in the middle of my set, I'll start hating the crowd, and then the rest of my set sucks. I feel like we should point out now, because we have a lot of fans outside the South. It's not like literally every bit of our material is even this kind of thing. So it's not like we're up there the whole time. No, no, no. For me, it was my last minute and a half, two minutes.

It was my closing bit. It's a very fleeting thing. The reason it was because I do an impression. I basically say it's my family. But I said my whole family now, when I call home or visit, they all sound exactly like Carl from Slingblade to me, no matter what they say. So I do the impersonation of Carl, and that's why I do it. It's a little bit of it. Yeah, okay.

It hurts. But I set my, you know, my mom sets me down to tell me something. And it's always some redneck problem. And she's always like, well, looks like your niece going to be getting divorced. That's fucking good. Seems that her husband done took to the teddy bar. You guys can't hear or you can't see because you're just listening to the podcast, but the face is easy. He's really going method.

That's a good impression. Some people call them strip gloves. I call them titty bars. That's phenomenal. The whole bit. I share with these guys like when, so when I'm up there doing the things that again, when in the South, doesn't feel disingenuous at all. We're all in on it. I'm doing them here.

I almost want to, I don't necessarily get mad, but I almost want to pause and go, let me take a quick pull. hole before I go on the next joke. Why did you laugh at that joke, sir? Why did you laugh at that joke? What did you find the humor in? You know what I'm saying? And we're not right. You're right. Like you should do that joke because it's funny and that's it. We have deep problems. Yeah. Dude, I mean, hell. And they're not, if you flip it on them and you go back to Texas and you start making fun of the people you've run into in L.A. I don't have a problem with that. That'll kill. Well, I like to, when I do shows in L.A., I like to, when I do shows in L.A., I'll almost always have at least two or three lines that are shitting on L.A.

And, I mean, I find that they, I find they take it very well. Like L.A. does. That will kill in Texas. When you go back to do a show in Texas and you do that bit and you say, ever since I've been out there, this is what y'all's sounding to me. It will murder. So, you know what I mean? So, like, it's not, it's not, there's literally nothing wrong with it.

I think part of it for us is growing up, we saw, I mean, I'll just say it, you know, through the blue car door. And those guys are very, very funny. But like the Larry the Cable Guy stuff and all that, that created a thing in comedy where for years in the main part of the industry. And this is no one's fault. And I love Jeff Foxxorley. I'm not blaming anybody.

I mean, you guys have heard me say, fuck Larry the Cable Guy. I know probably by now that everyone knows how I feel about Hillbilly Blackface. But the industry, because those guys were such a phenomenon, that became what Southern Comedy was. And if you were going to be a Southern comic, you had to do these jokes. where like that was the whole joke every single time, every single time. And I know that what happened was with me, the reason I do that in my head that we were just talking about is I'm just like, don't do that.

Don't do that thing you hated when you were 16 or whatever. But I got to get over that, man. Like, funny's funny. And I've always felt that. That's always been my number one rule. Funny's funny. Also, by the way, a lot of my redneck jokes are really about me being poor growing up. They're like poverty jokes.

And what I love about, what I love about, it's the comparisons between. I don't know why this whole concept of rednecks and black people don't get along. And then you start lining up how identical issues. I mean, that stuff is stuff that actually can literally change people's lives. Even though it's comedy, I think that could really open some people's eyes to some of that stuff. We should be a line. I said it can. I don't know how it does.

Yeah. Mine and Corries. Yeah. Yeah. God damn it. Be grateful. You sorry asses. But I know in Dallas, you told a joke about it was something having to do with Tennessee, the Alabama rivalry.

And in Dallas, huge. For our fans, the football rivalry. Yeah. Oh, yeah, of course. Being from Texas, everything's football. So I don't even need to say it. Yeah, they were on the same side on the war. That killed in Texas.

And then I think you did something along the lines of it in L.A. at the comedy store. And it fell flat. And then you said, okay, I guess the college football jokes aren't doing so well in L.A. and that got a bigger laugh than the original joke. And it's funny how football rivalry shit is huge everywhere else. Nothing in L.A. And I said, and I do that joke like all over the country.

And like it usually, it usually goes pretty well. Is it about your son growing up to be gay or something? Yeah. Okay. Versus being an Alabama fan. And so, but yeah, that night, anytime I've ever done L.A. And that kind of happens, I'm never surprised. I'd say I was like, oh, the SEC football joke didn't go over in Los Angeles.

Who fucking thought it? Not me, apparently. But anyway, I was just going to say, like, also, no matter where we are and no matter who the people are where they're from, a lot of the shit that I do, like I said, it's like poverty jokes, people will come up to me and be like, you know, look, I grew up in L.A. my whole life, but I grew up poor in L.A. and, like, I totally get so much of that shit you're talking about. And so it's like that, you know, I think a lot of them aren't, they're not laughing at

it being redneck shit. They're laughing at, you know, the relatability of it or whatever. And there are definitely people who are laughing at just, you know, silly rednex. And that's fine. That's fine. That's fine. We're comedians. Right. Yeah, we've said it.

We did it to get over that. Well, we've said it forever. It's, everybody deserves to be laughed at. It just, we would just, we just want a certain amount of awareness. Right. What the landscape fucking looks like. And I think that's the reason that we let L.A. get away with it. Because if you shit on them, they also laugh at that.

If they were up their own assholes of it, we, they, they, they, they, they, they, one city that we should mention on this podcast right now. But I think the reason that about L.A. and this, I may be wrong. I'm with Dan Francisco. I may be wrong, but it's probably a lot to do with like, man,

I ain't none of them motherfuckers from L.A. A lot of them are at our shows. You know what I'm saying? Like, they know what this is. No, I mean, LA in my experience is pretty, what? I just thought of Dan Francisco.

Hell yeah. I mean, Corey, have this idea of him playing a character who goes out to the Castro district in San Francisco, but he's just Corey. Like he's like a janitor from Omaha who just happens to be gay. Like he wears cargo shorts and flip flops and they won't accept him because he's gay, but, you know, he's Dan Francisco.

He's not San Francisco. I'm Dan Francisco. But in my experience, L.A., one of the few things that it's self-aware about is smelling their own farce. How easy it is to make fun of them. You know what I mean? I've found that L.A. is pretty good about it. Well, they all see it because no one's from here. very few people

who are right. They all move here and they're like God damn this place is up its own hands. Definitely a huge That was my whole point.

It's like if you moved LA you know the deal. Like you know what we're you know what we're doing and so yeah they can do it so when they laugh at you fucking with them

then I don't mind it all right. You're laughing and it may fucking with my paper for sure. So having said that Lord we went on a tangent

I asked you about Dogman debate and said well comedy's a big part of it and then 15 minutes later here we are so back to that Does it bother you when we say, Lord?

Absolutely not. Especially in vain. That joke would have hit a lot better for our fans if they knew anything about you. That's true. So let's do that first. And then you can try that joke again and see if they chuckle this time. Yeah. Yeah.

So, well, I used to be a very involved Christian. I was a part of Christian Ministries. I was a drummer for an all-black church and a gospel choir. One of the most fun parts of my life ever. Oh, how old were you? Funk and blues. 16, 17, 17. 15, 16.

Did your parents bring you to that world? No. Did you find it because they're like fucking up and then that was your way out? No, I mean, I was in. It was all of that. The answer is yes. My mom taught me the Christianity but never took me to church. She's one of these people that I have a personal relationship with the Lord and I'll

read the Bible when I'm scared and bad shit's happening. But other than that, I talk to God like my best friend. I don't need a preacher. I don't need a mediator. A cool person. Right. And so, but then there were times where she would take it way too far. Like I, I've always wanted to see the good side of bad people. And that's a weird thing. Even I was five years old and I walked out, I was in the bath and I walked out and I asked my mom, I said, do you think baby demons are cute? Because I'm trying to think, hey, maybe if we can get them while they're still babies, we can teach them not to be mean to people. That's what I was thinking in my five-year-old brain. And she grabbed me. you would think she grabbed me, walked me back into the bathtub and washed my mouth out with soap,

like literally stuck a bar of soap in my mouth. Like a demon. Yeah, there you go. I'm not as cool. Jesus Christ. Yeah. So she wasn't abusive. Like she wasn't.

Yes, she was. But that moment was pretty fucked up. And she denies it with liquid soap because I would swish it around. The bar side wasn't good enough. So what was it? Nobody wants to laugh because I don't know if it's true or not. That is absolutely true. Is it really?

Oh, my God. That's horrible. He says like absolutely outrageous shit. It's probably actually a thing that either has done or has happened. That is horrible. I had chunks of the bar soap stuck in between them. I don't even really get, as we've talked about on your show a lot, like, I really didn't grow up just at all. I wanted to think Corey's mom real quick because she might be listening.

He deserved that. I did deserve that. It wasn't because he said something about baby demons. She probably called her a con or something. I would like to, too. She absolutely deserved it. And I only think that happened like twice. And then she's probably like, oh, it's probably poison.

So anyway, what, like, I don't even really. get it. Was it that you were insinuating as a five-year-old that maybe demons could in any universe maybe not be that bad? Yeah. And you can't. Absolutely. You got it. You got it. And the fact that that would come out of my mouth meant we have to cleanse that because I'm letting Satan speak for me in some way. You were a baby demon. Maybe in that moment. Because you were sympathizing with demons. Right. Yep. And so I grew up with that. I grew up with that fear of God. And like I remember first starting to masturbate under the covers, experimenting. I remember asking my mom,

can God see under the covers? She goes, damn right, I can see you under them covers. You leave that peter alone. She knew exactly what was going on. So it was always about just God wasn't this guy that we should love and worship and be there for it was, he's going to kick your ass someday and he's watching you constantly just waiting on you to fuck up. Yeah, constant.

And so, but then she would be so inconsistent with it, you know, drinking, smoking, fornicating, just getting divorced. I mean, when I was a teenager and started reading the Bible for myself, I'm like, Mom, you're just as fucked up as I am. Like, why are you, you know, we're both going to hell. This is screwed up. And so I went on this like 14 year journey of, you know,

I was door knocking for the church that I was playing drums for. And this older black lady, I said, I'd like to talk to you about our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. And she just went, honey, you need Jesus. And slam the door in my face. God damn it, I love that. And I remember standing there, staring at this door going, what if she's right? What if on the other side of this metal door with bars on it?

She's got the truth, and I'm chasing some fake-ass Jesus, and I'm going to end up going to hell. What if she's telling the truth? I'm just listening to what these guys are telling me. I'm not reading the shit for myself. And that was my first spark to go read the Bible yourself. And I went on this journey. I sat down with theology professors, preachers, pastors, and nobody could make heads or tails of my question. They just couldn't do it.

So I went on this long journey. And my goal was I want to get so close to God that I can sort out all the discrepancies and inconsistencies. And I got so close I saw that there wasn't one. And then I felt the need to tell other people who were being shammed and abused and beaten by the shit. But I realized that everywhere people were talking about it, they were all being dicks to each other.

Atheists were being absolute dicks to Christians. Christians were coming to Atheist Post being dicks to atheists. I posted that I'm working on a second book now. my first book came out in 2010, it was called baptized atheist because the moment I was baptized made me go, maybe I need to be good at this before I take credit and put the jersey on, you know what I mean? And I said that the title was baptized atheist.

The first comment was baptized atheist, they should have held you under. Right. Right. And so I saw this shitting, you know, this shitting on each other going on and I went, I want to create a platform where people can have respectful discussions about controversial topics.

And Dogman Debate was born in $9 million. downloads later. Here I am in L.A. doing it full time. Yeah, I get, still to this day, pretty regularly at shows and stuff, people will say, you know, that they were introduced to me through dogma debate or whatever. It's like you, Stephanie Miller, obviously, Bill Maher, but like, I mean, dogma debate. Good category to be in. How long ago did you start that podcast, period? Oh, man.

In its current form, 2012. Okay. It had a couple of failures, but the way it is now in 2012. When did you start podcasting? about atheism or religion or whatever. Well, about, so I, I did podcasting before podcasting was a thing. That's what I did. I did internet radio in 2003.

We called it internet radio that you could just listen to later if you didn't catch it live. Right. But that was about comedy, believe it or not. I was doing, we were, we were hosting comedians and like unsigned artists, hip-hop artists and stuff like that. And what we would do is we'd bring them on the show. In Dallas? In Dallas, yeah, we'd bring them on the show.

We would play their music and then just shit on them. Just make fun of them the whole time. And then which we'd do. done that with your book. There's plenty to shit on in that book. But yeah, and then at the end of the month, we'd invite all four guests back and have a huge showcase and give them an audience. And it was kind of cool.

And then started it up again in 2010, doing a little bit of stand-up comedy here and there, bombing ridiculously, thinking I should never be a comedian. And then... That's important. Went through... Yeah, I went through a really slow phase and then hit the ground running back in 2012. Been edited ever since. To clarify real quick, the basic format of Dogman debate, and again, when I've done it, it's been different because, you know, me and you are on the same page, basically everything.

Right. But the general idea is that you have someone on and you've had people on from all different kinds of, like, faiths or creeds, beliefs, whatever. Sure, sure. And you just debate it with them, but respectfully. And you also, you hope, don't you like, sometimes you'll have multiple games. like more than one guest than they have opposing views and you're kind of like moderator in that way. Yep, absolutely. So it's debating that, but it's also just attacking dogmas. It isn't just about religion. A lot of it seems to be because dogma typically ties into religion. But it's about everybody's dogma. We all carry dogma with us.

And I don't mean dogma in the sense of a list of rules we have to follow. It's a sense of even when you've been showed something as bullshit, you will still continue to do it. And I do it. And I do it. And I don't know how. you guys feel about this. I've noticed, I recognized my own dogma the other day talking to a preacher when he, we were just kind of, no microphones or anything. We were talking and he said, we were talking about questions our opposition asked us that we have trouble with. So this is a preacher and an atheist activist radio guy sort of talking about what the other guy does that hurts us. You know what I mean? That's really hard. And he said one hard one from him was when an atheist says, how can a Christian be eternally happy in heaven knowing that there are atheists burning in hell?

Sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, if you have somebody going to hell. That's why I'm not a Christian anymore or why I don't go to church or whatever. I'm not really an atheist, but that whole religion unraveled because of that. So I helped him out. I said, here's an idea. Here's something that can help you with that. I don't know why I'm helping him, but this is just professional courtesy, I got something I can tell him to tell you, but you go ahead.

I said, well, look at it this way. I said, we're able to enjoy things like our kids being born and we can go see movies and tell jokes and go to comedy shows and have fun. When we know there's suffering going on out there somewhere, three months from now, we're going to hear that somebody's been locked in a tent for six weeks being beaten and abused. Then I paused for a minute and then I went, just like we know what goes on at animal slaughterhouses and how animals are kept, but we still go order that number four in line at the drive-thru and enjoy the shit out of that. cheeseburger when we know how these animals are treated. I said, we just compartmentalize it and push it aside. And he was like, man, that's a great answer. So yeah, he's using that, but I'm standing there going, why am I still doing this?

Why am I still, you know, eating meat and understanding what it does, the environment and all this. I'm like, I just push it out and go, fuck it. I'm having barbecue. Don't think about it. Yet I know what's going on, what it's doing to the environment, the animal agriculture issues, the animal agriculture issues and all this other stuff. I still continue to eat meat. And I'm like, that's my dogma.

So I invited PETA in studio to say, show me why I'm wrong. Someone ordered food? Someone ordered food. I think Corey did. Oh. You getting pranked? I don't know what the hell is he holding 81 pizzas? No.

Warner Brothers has sent us some. Oh, oh, okay. Drew, Davey. Cut it. Pause it. Pause it. Just let it go. No, no.

She ordered food up front? No. No. It's from say it. I believe it's a lovely gift basket from Warner Brothers Studios. Probably Tony. So pretentious. For my children.

They oftentimes will send my kids Batman toys and DVDs and stuff like that. But they still ain't sent us a pap all Batman mock up. So fuck them. No. Do not fuck them. They're quite all right in my book. But yeah, I'm pretty sure that's what's going. You know how those work.

Will you reach over and pause that? I don't want to because that may stop the whole thing. So let's just let it roll. Okay. And then we can cut it out later. Okay. Because if you do, right now it created four files. We'll have eight different files to deal with if you stop it.

So anyway, well, I mean, dude, and also, I mean, yes, we'll need to cut some of this out because this is just not good listening. But we can just, let's just fucking. Keep going. Yeah. It's fine, dude. I'm cut it. I mean, this is hilarious. The poor delivery, man.

is insisting that he give it to Trey Crowder. And Corey is like, no, it's fine. I got it. Should we do commentating on this? Well, what was hilarious was that Corey was trying to be like, no, it's fine, dude. Don't worry about it. Just drop it off. And the dude's like, no, this is my job. Yeah, I've got to have the signature of the right guy.

I get that. His problem was, Corey says. He thinks this is a separate house. Yeah. He doesn't, he didn't understand that. this is the same goddamn house. I was like, this is the guest house. He's like, is this, I've been knocking on the front door.

And I was like, yeah, we're back here. And he's like, I said, this is from Warner. I know exactly what this is. This is from Warner Brothers. He's like, are you trying? I was like, yes, I'm trying. So it was very raving when you walked out. Which is like, yeah, I'm trying.

The guy looked at me like, I could be in telling him. His problem was he didn't believe that this house had anything to do with that house. Wow. We did not stop it. Oh, we didn't pause. Oh, God, no, no, no, we didn't pause. I just, I didn't want to take the chance of having an eight files instead of four.

No, of course. Okay. All right. So shit. Sorry about, yeah, we'll definitely need to cut some of that out. That got pretty hairy there for a minute.

We were talking about, well, he had just said that he feels like a hypocrite because he is dogmatic about his eating habits related to me and you two perked up like someone had spit on your mama's. No, actually me and David have talked about this a little bit already. I knew that he, I'm not,

I was aware of that. Otherwise, yes. So you brought PETA in? I brought PETA in on purpose to put my own dogma. The group, not beta chips. Right. To bring my own dogma out front and be like, if I'm, look, if, if I need to keep eating meat, I want to know a scientific reason to defend myself. And if there's not a good one, maybe I should stop.

And so I brought PETA in last week and we did a, we did a whole show on it. And we debated, we went at it. And when is this going to go out? We don't know. Probably sometime in like late July, early August. Oh, wow. Wow, really. Okay.

So then I can tell you. So I ended up on back on June 12th when I, when the show aired, I basically said, doing all the research and the scientific studies up to it and reading a bunch of stuff, I basically decided I was going to go for to be a pescatarian, which is mostly mostly vegetables. I fuck with that for two days. Yeah, and then doing fish and stuff. Really? I ate ham this morning. I didn't know. I was not saying.

But no, for the last week, I've had no. I've had no meat other than fish, and then at breakfast at my hotel this morning. Ham is the fish of the pig. I've always said that. What? There's no fucking sense. I had the ham. You mean?

Because you were eating steak like a motherfucker. Yeah, right after that. Okay. I had ham in my mouth this morning when I realized what I was doing. Yeah. And you had given me shit because I was going to pescatarian and did the same goddamn thing. No. It's hard.

No. It's hard. It's hard. I made a mistake. Actually putting ham in my mouth. You went two days and said, no. You went smooth. We made fun of you because what we said was,

you ain't going to make it. Right. But first off, if you're just a dumb or you accidentally put ham in your mouth, that totally seems like something I'd do. That's true. That's 100% true. So I can't defend that.

I'm going to preface it by saying, I know this is a weak-ass. Except the ham hit. I know this is a weak-ass argument before I even say it, but like how I've always felt about that. And also this is shitty. I'll say that too. Okay.

I've just always felt like, and I mean, now my fat ass ain't done shit, but mankind as a speaker, species evolved over fucking millennia to be the apex predator on this earth, eating meat, along with, you know, berries and shit the entire time. To me, like, it's absolutely natural that we're omnivores. You sound like a men in us defending sexual assault. No, you're right.

We are. We've evolved over years to be stronger than these women. Fuck you ham eater. comparing to eating meat to sexual assault? I'm not comparing it. I'm not comparing it, but the logic's the same. It's just he's as passionate, but it's about beef, which is awesome.

Just because we evolved doing it, doesn't mean we should continue when we know better. I think there's a lot of really shitty ways that corporations go about it, but I still fuck with Tyson chicken. Don't get me wrong. But I'm saying, not like, I'm saying, I'm not going to ask, where does chicken come from?

I'm just going to eat the shit. If I like, it's not. yeah that some of that stuff is objectively fucked up your concern is the treatment not the actual fucking meat it's the treatment my my concern is number one the environment right yeah that makes the most sense to me 51% of all uh green gas emissions comes from animal agriculture right the first time i heard that i went wait a minute i got rid of my Ford F150 pickup got a clean engine motorcycle and bought a Prius to help with the environment and i've eaten enough cheeseburgers i've eaten enough cheeseburger. Yeah, I brought it. It's out front. Now I've eaten enough cheeseburgers. This is

making any sense. I get in my clean engine Prius. And after just displaying to a pastor that he has an absolute dogma is believing that a dead guy came back to life. And I'm going, there's no evidence for that. And there's evidence against it as a matter of fact. And I walk out of there with my head held high going, you're still doing something that's been scientifically proven inaccurate. And then I hop on my motorcycle and go eat a cheeseburger. But hold on. Even though I know that's bad for the environment and then second is the animals but you brought morality in at the very end of that equation you can accept the science and then just be like but i like me more than i give a fuck about this particular situation is that necessarily dogma if you accept the facts

but then just be that but continuing the bad behavior when you know you're having a negative impact i think it would be it would be dogma i think so it doesn't matter it's a shitty thing to do. Sure. I just say putting my own dogma on blast because my show is called dogma debate. It's a marketing thing. I get that. Why are you blasting it, dude?

It's a marketing. No, no, I'm not blasting it. I was just, I'm just thinking about, honestly, I was trying to defend you, but now I realize how I hurt your brand. But I was just, I was trying to say, cut yourself a break, have a fucking state. But you know what? Fuck you, man. Yeah, don't worry about it.

You'll hear from my attorneys. Anyway, let me ask you, though, please. Like, if you're, you'll hear from our attorney, too, I'm him. That's him. Yeah. a specific like if you're at if you're in a specific situation where you know the steak you're eating is like you know let's say you're at somebody's plate they have a farm or some shit and they slaughtered it themselves or whatever and like you know that they raise their

cattle like as humanely as whatever does any brine sometimes does that then are you are you cool with it or is it like well you can't make those kinds of exceptions or whatever like you know once you're hunting once you start hunting once you start once you start once you start for me, I mean, it hasn't been that long. I'm only a few weeks into it. But for me, this is a recent... I know why, because it just happened. But, like, it was so funny

because we were just talking about me being pescatarian. And it's like, we're, like, talking about it. And I was like, oh, yeah, he's just a couple weeks in. I'm just saying, we're asking him all these questions. Yeah, it's not like I've been to do it for seven years. And I'm a pro at it. I'm just telling you already when I'm at dinner and someone orders dead cow, it makes me a little nauseous.

Like, I smell and go, fuck, that smells like a dead body to me. That doesn't smell like food. It's weird, man. They say meat tastes like murder. You goddamn right. Murder tastes fucking delicious. I mean, like, I could, I guess I could buy that because, like, that's how I felt and still feel, frankly, about any kind of sodas. Like, I quit drinking sodas when I was a teenager to lose weight, and it worked like a motherfucker.

And buddy, growing up a fat kid, let me tell you, that the fucking demon Meller Yeller had me by the horn. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, was literally addicted to it. loved it. And not just all of them, loved it, the taste of it. Dude,

I got to where I, genuinely, I don't enjoy the taste of them. I don't ever fucking want one. And if I'm in some weird situation where I'm dying of thirst and that's all there is, it don't taste good.

I don't, I don't enjoy it. And it actually just makes me thirstier. Yeah. Like, I can't fucking stay out. I'm the same way with Dr. Pepper.

I used to love. Me too. So, like, while it's crazy to me to hear a man say, I smell steak and it turns my stomach, I can, totally buy how that could actually happen because I mean I've been there.

I love to cook. I love the grill. I love making steaks and this all. It just, it's changed to everything. It's like I used to smoke. And then now if I'm in a room with somebody smoking, it smells like shit to me,

I used to love the smell of it. Yeah, that's another one. That's another one. I've been there too. That you're here talking about this right now because like I just said, I'm doing this right now too. And I guess I hadn't told that this morning or whatever,

they would have given me, and they're still going to give me shit. Sure. But like if I had said what you just said about a steak turning my stomach, these two would not have let me hear the end of that sentence. Yes, I would. I said, cool, more steak for me. Fuck you. Go over.

No, he would not. Honestly, when he first said it. You put ketchup on it anyways. I don't give a fuck. You desecrate meat more than anybody. Oh, that's a good point. I'd rather you just not eat it. But there, end of discussion.

When he first said, when someone orders a steak, it makes me a little nauseous. I thought he just meant, like, purely like. from a morality perspective. Like I'm so, I'm disgusted with this person. When he first said it, I was like, hold on,

cuss. But when he then, when I realized he meant like literally, it's not appealing to him, like the smell of it or whatever. I mean, like I said, I mean,

that's crazy to me, but I can buy it. It seemed to happen real quick. That's wild. And you know, that's why people, everybody talks about, I would have thought it

taken more time. Well, I've been working on it. I've been, this has been a long time of me. Oh, you mean for it to smell that way? Yeah.

No. I was shocked too. I was shocked too. And this is why people are always making fun of, like, vegans for constantly talking about it. They have to, because they're constantly having to talk themselves and to stay in vegan.

Like, you have to reach out to other people. You have to reach out to other people. 70 to 84% of vegans or vegetarians fall off the wagon and go back to eating meat. But that kind of, doesn't that conflict with what you just said about meat making your stomach turn? Why?

What do you mean? You're always trying to catch me in some shit. Let's go. What are you talking about? No, I'm not. I'm confused. How? What do you mean?

You said that meat, the smell of it turns your stomach. Right. So if that does it to everybody, why do they fall off the water? I don't know that it does it. How is it tempting is what he's saying? Yeah. If you genuinely have already reached a point where you smell it and it grosses you out, let me tell you.

How are you ever tempted by it? All right. I said meat, not necessarily cow. Mm-hmm. So just the other day, a bunch of my friends went to Chick-fil-A and they were like, hey, we brought back food and the chicken sandwich is sitting right there. And the barbecue sauce, chicken sandwich, waffle fries, and I'm going, fuck.

I know I love this. And I'm like, and I didn't have anything else. Yeah, no, that's what I'm saying. That kind of stuff still smells really good. So you just mean beef in particular. For me right now it's beef. I mean, hell, honestly, man, the smell of, I mean, a cook steak, no, but like, I mean, I think as far as the meats go, the smell of beef is, I don't think it's that appetizing.

I love it. It's pork. I love it. No, I'm with you as pork for me. That's the smell that gets me fried chicken a little bit. I still love beef. So back on your point. about being omnivores, we are, and you're 100% right, but we're omnivores.

About 80% of our diet should be vegetables. Right. Small pieces of meat, either chicken, turkey, some sort of bird or fish is usually what we did. Rarely did we eat a bison or a cow, and we did, it was a small part. Right now, the average American eats 207 pounds of beef per year. Your God. Damn, right. Way more than we should have.

Two questions. That's part of why I did it. I want to get more healthy, but also I've been like, yeah. Two questions. So, you know, like, biologically speaking, and, like, you know, a lot of these, most of them take it, like, way too far. But if you're, like, a body, bit, if you see a dude and you're like, that is peak athletic condition or wherever right there, a guy that's just fucking ripped. Yeah. Like me mostly?

Like, you know, just like you. The rock. Like, you're going to lose all this, David. Now that you quit fucking eating meat. I don't know what the thing's going to happen. But I'm saying, anybody. that follows in that shit knows it's fucking protein, protein, protein. I know that there are other options for sourcing protein,

but nothing is as efficient as like the... That's visual peak. You see that it... You see that it clearly works. So our bodies, like, in that way, it's a benefit. Eating that amount of protein... The amount that they work out is unnatural. He's talking about omnivores who are surviving in the wild.

I don't think those guys are optimal... And by the way... There was also, I totally get that. My point is you can see, in my opinion, like, an objective benefit to them doing that. Like, it's clearly, it works. What's the benefit of the other than that? It doesn't know. It doesn't know.

They're strong as fuck. Beef is not the most efficient protein. No, beef isn't. I didn't say beef. I mean, just me. Whitefish is fucking better. Pescatarian. I know.

You said you're pescatarian. Right. So what I'm getting at is beef also comes with a lot of bad shit in it. like carnitine and other things that's linked to heart disease and brain cancer and all of their shit. You're 100% right. Beef is like maybe the least efficient. But that actually leads to my second question was, okay, you're a pescatarian.

You said your number one reason is the environment. I know it's like greenhouse gases and stuff, but like correct me if I'm wrong, but like overfishing of the oceans and all this shit is also a huge fucking problem. Yeah, that's why PETA is still a little bit pissed off of me. Well, it's not that it's okay. How do you rationalize that? I rationalize it because if I go. 100% vegan right now.

I know I got an 84% failure chance. And I don't want to cut it off, so I'm reducing, stepping down to the best that I can't. I'm being realistic. Is that like a study that you found that number? Yes, sir. I did tons of research. Are you just exhausted all the time?

From what? All that research. Not having any protein your goddamn system. I eat a shitload of fish, man. But is your goal to get there, though? Maybe so. That's what Peter said. And they were still kind of frustrated with me for eating fish.

Can I ask you this? Because I'm listening to this. Did Peter being kind of frustrated with you, first of all? That means they love you. Go ahead. I don't know that I'm wrong. And I don't want to jump on a Bill Burr premise here. But I'm sensing maybe the problem ain't goddamn meat.

It's that there's too many of fucking us. Because back when we did evolve to the Apex Predator and everybody was eating beef and shit, there wasn't as many people. So there wasn't as high of a demand for... Right now the demand for beef is so high. They were cranking them out, cranking them out, cranking them out. Right. And so that's why.

Well, back in the day, there wasn't. as many of us, therefore we could live off how many fucking cows there were, and there weren't as many gases going up. Now we've overpopulated ourselves, and now the thing that we, as human beings, started out in Eden, we've kind of fucked ourselves on this, because now the ozone can only take so much. So, really,

we just need to, you know, all die so that I can keep eating steak. Is that, does that make sense? No matter how many we are. Not all of us. You get to be the one that, one of the ones that don't die? Yeah. Based on what? Me and, uh, me and, I don't know who else, who I'd take with it. Scarlett Johanson.

Scarlett Johanson. Did you think of John Stamos? Because that fan last night? Yes, I did. I've had him on my mind on that. He was so gorgeous. But I mean, that's correct, though. Like, in terms of, like, the reason the gases are so high is because of the demand we have

for them. If there weren't as much of us, it wouldn't be that big of a deal. That, to me kind of sounds like saying, if we just killed all the bank robbers, maybe that's how we could stop bank robbing. For me, I'm like, you could just stop fucking bank robber. You know what I mean? Let me say this. That was just me being funny.

I don't think we should kill nobody. But what I'm saying is like, oh, you said Bill Burb because of blowing up the ships. He always is wanting to population. Population control. He's had multiple different bits. I've been bitching about population control for four fucking specials. He does all.

And it's great. What I'm saying is like meat has not always been a problem. Like when there wasn't so goddamn many of us. It's not that there's too many of us. It's that individually we're eating too much of it. Right. And I'm brand new. I don't want this whole show being about meat.

defending this bullshit. Yeah, no, I just, because I'm brand new editing. And I've already lost weight too, man. I've cut some weight

from it already. You look great. We're kind of been, feel better. Yeah, we're being a little unfair here. That's what I was laughing about earlier. I wasn't saying it's day two,

you're not committed. I was saying it's day two and we've made you the spokesman. Right. I have to, having said that, I do have one more thing move on.

Okay. I know you said primarily for you it's the environment and this ain't got shit to do with that. You said the treatment of animals also part of it. Me and we're talking about just the other day.

I'm going to get shit for this. I know I am. I don't give a fuck. When it comes to chickens specifically. Yeah. There's a very famous story. I don't remember the fucking chicken's name, but you can Google it easily.

It was a chicken in like the 30s or 40s. And it lived without a head for six months. They were trying to kill it. They chopped it off at a point where like the brainstem was still somewhat intact and it didn't die. And the farmer was like, holy shit, look at this. This is wild as hell. Took that chicken on the road, made a bunch of money.

Hey, the amazing headless chicken. That guy was a hustler. Good for him. Hell yeah. But that, I go back to that. Like, dude, I'm sorry. An animal that can literally live for six months without a fucking head. Like, it's just hard for me to have that much empathy for them specifically.

Why does that tie into that for you? Well, okay. He thinks stupid people should all die. No, wait. What? I'm sorry, are you Bill Burr? Do you mean it?

No, well, hold on. I'm not talking about anything in population control. I'm just talking about vegetarianism. And the idea of like the treatment of animals. Yeah, but you said, you eat fish, right? And I don't, you're saying it's a stepping stone for you. I've met people that eat fish, pescatarians.

They're like, well, the fish, you know, they don't like feel pain or whatever. It's like, it's not. They know they do. First of all, I always thought that was bullshit. Yeah. But secondly, like, but I guess that's not your rat. rationale, but I always want to say to them, like, well, I don't, is a fish really that much

different than a fucking chicken? I mean, chicken can live without a head, dude. It's not, not pigs, but here's the thing, I can't quit my bacon, though. No, me, me and you both, but, but, I mean, pigs are fucking intelligent, and, like, that's proven. Pigs are, like, almost as smart as fucking dogs, and, like, you think they know they're delicious. We eat the fuck out of them, and so, you know, and, like, that, yeah, that, yeah, that, you know, pig knows delicious when I think about it, but like chickens though, chicken, fish, you know, whatever. Did you even hear what he said?

Because the pig know that it's delicious. When you said he's smart, you said pigs are smart, he said, do they know they're delicious? They'd have to. Yeah. Or they're dumb because that's the easiest thing in the world to figure out. But I'm saying what, like, I don't know, does any of that factor, do you think that's what I just says total bullshit? No, that's actually, believe it or not, Trey Crowder just made Pita's argument. because that's what PETA said to me.

Like, it's not much different from eating a chicken. You're still eating, you're still eating fish. If you're doing it for ethical reasons, why are you still eating fish? I wish you were responding. Well, God damn, I've been wanting some fried chicken. Thanks, Peter. Okay, they were making an argument in the other direction. Yeah, but you got to stop.

Same logic. Oh, never mind. I thought that, like, you and Peter were on the, like, you were, you and them agreed on something. Yeah, that didn't hit for me. It hit for me, but it wouldn't have hit for me if it was the opposite. But, uh, so Jesus. Well, what did you say to them when? Well, yeah, hi.

It's hilarious that you're dying to get off meat so you can talk about religion. Like, guys, this is too controversial. We're fucking controversial. Well, we joke about that at our shows. We talk about religion and politics all the time at our shows and people love it and whatever. And sometimes people bring their boyfriends and girlfriends who don't agree with us and it's fine. We start talking about SEC football. And people are like, hey, wait a minute, God damn it.

Now, this is bullshit. You know what I mean? So it's like, it's funny to get off like on the wrong thing. By the way, have y'all seen that? I keep thinking about you. Tray, every time I hear this song, I think about you when I hear this song, Jerry. Yeah, that's very sweet. I'm touched.

It's a whole song about a girl being an Alabama fan. No. From Georgia. You haven't heard this country song? No. Like, it's on the radio? Yeah. Well, I don't, I have listened to the radio, but whenever I, I just, I'll just grab my phone and say, play country hits as I'm riding my bike or whatever.

This song keeps coming up on my playlist. You don't know who it's by or not? No, I can find any lyrics that you can just kind of might. Dude, if you just tap in country song about it. owner mind or something. If you just type in country song about an Alabama fan. Just say she's got Georgia on her mind. I think that's what it's got to do with.

Like she's pretending to be able to date. I haven't really figured it out. I just know that every time he says Alabama fan, I think about Trey's son growing up to be gay and having no problem, but him growing up to be an Alabama fan. I'm sure. Absolutely sure. I'll hate that song. But yeah. All right.

Jesus. Jesus. So I told you guys earlier off the air. I was excited about this because I wanted to, I wanted you and Drew to get into some Jesus. talk because like I said and as our listeners know Drew, your daddy's a preacher, Drew has a very,

I would say, complicated relationship with religion. So complicated. It's definitely been a whole thing for him. Yeah. And so, I don't know. Take it away.

Boys. Let me ask you, is he still an active preacher now? Yeah. Is he, does he open to discussions or does he shut down and call people Satan

if they try to talk to him about it? No, no. I mean, he's not the most open human, religion or otherwise. He's a good dude. What denomination?

No, just open to being, open to talking about. Well, listen, we can do this, but I'm going to have to prepare myself if this podcast is going to be about me and my dad's relationship. No, it's not. No, not at all. Not at all. What I was going to say is, do you think he would call in and be a part of my show? No. Okay.

No, I don't think so. And that has to do with just like him not giving a shit generally about things like that. Like, he hates TV preachers. He hates. Oh, good. We have something in common. He hates banks. You know, like, he's just a very, like, he's just a very, like, he's just a very, like,

Like podcast, I think he would literally go, a what? Do you know what I mean? Okay. We always somehow go back to Parks and Rec, because your dad, every time you talk about him, he's Ron Swanson. My dad is if Ron Swanson was a preacher, absolutely. Oh, wow. Every time you describe him. Now every time I watch that.

Yeah, he used to ride a bike and be a drunk and not go to church at all. My dad, he loves the story of Paul because he feels like he's a lot like Paul in that. When he was not into the church, he was very much not into the church. Like, he's never done. anything to a five. He's always been turned up to 10 kind of guy. You know what I mean? Yeah.

And a lot of times people find their religion and they look back on that part of their life and they call that atheism. And they think that's what we all do when we leave religion. And so they're desperately trying to save us back in. And so I like to talk to people like that and show them the humanist side of loving everybody and still doing good shit and not raping and pillaging and killing for non-religious reasons. My dad doesn't really have an axe to grind. So that's like another thing about him.

It's weird because I got. And I do this on stage. I'm like, hey, I'm the son of a preacher. And then I start making jokes. I let people believe whatever that means to them. But the 100% truth is my dad started preaching when I was 12. He became a pastor when I was 14. My dad was an alcoholic who didn't go to church until I was about 7-ish.

He wrote a motorcycle, never went to church, made us go to church, looking back on it now. So we'd leave the fucking house so you'd have his hangover in peace. You know? My mom was a religious one. I was like a very religious child who was worried about him. So there was that time period of my life. So when people here, I'm the son of a preacher, they have certain things in mind. But my childhood wasn't at all shaped by that.

My teenage years was to a certain extent. But what I always say about my dad is I feel like because I lived with him during that time, there was no like come home at 8 and I'm worried what the church members think about us because you're running around. He knew better. You know what I mean? He couldn't try to like, make me into this perfect Christian, you know, teenager because I remembered when he was who he was. Do you know what I mean?

So I didn't have like a very strict dad in that sense, to be honest with you. Now, like I said, though, he was strict in other ways, kind of like the closed off thing. He just, that's just who he was the whole time. You know what I mean? Consistency in that way. Yeah, he sounds pretty reasonable to me. My dad is. Sounds like a cool ass dude like you were saying, Corey.

My dad, I actually is one of the most reasonable and blunt people in the world. And we have that in common. I've been working on a bit about how no one wants honest. and I'm basing it on my dad because he don't have a lot of friends because he tells people the truth. Now, I mean, it's his truth, you know, which has some Jesus in it, but people don't like that. I mean, I've only made him once. You are your father's son. Yeah, I only made him once.

I talked to him for five minutes. I shook his hand, looked him in the eye. I'm a pretty good judge character. I like the dude. Well, character-wise, integrity is like really high up on my dad's, you know, whatever, and it always was. Right. He was good. But my religion story doesn't start with my dad, because it predates him,

even being involved in the church. Like when I was eight, I was terrified that my grandfather was going to burn in hell. And also around that time is when my, what I now realize were panic attacks about eternity started. I accepted that I was going to heaven and that it was supposed to be good. But the idea of living forever and me not being able to understand how long forever was and not being able to fathom it. It's terrifying. Terrified the fuck out of me.

I'm sure y'all have all, I'm sure we've all heard. but it and there's different variations of it but it's pretty close to the same thing that like that definition of eternity that goes something like uh you know take a walk uh you know one step every 10 years or and do that until you get all the way around the world one time and then when you do take one scoop of water out of the ocean and uh you know and then by the time you by the time the oceans are completely drained dry uh you know that will only be the beginning of eternity or whatever like that kind of that kind of shit i've never heard that but things for my nightmare later than that you know anything like that it's like everyone with the eagle brushing a golden ball

every two thousand years maybe i was black out from panic attack during this part i never heard grange of sands another one yeah graze of sand always fucked me up so much right kid even though like by that time i'd already like left the church but i was still a kid and everybody all my other friends and shit went and so i still had this like you know what if i'm wrong about this like what if there is an eternity and then i hear shit like that and good Lord. No, it's fucked me up too. When I was, when that fucking, this is, please don't make fun of me right off top.

This is how I thought of it. When that fucking Kenny Chester song came out where he's like, I want to know how forever feels. First thought I had was like, fuck, no, I don't. You're wrong, Kenny for several reasons. I tried to do, so going back to like whatever, I try to do a bit about that about how I almost feel bad for my parents because they were like, this is great. You know, you can go live in heaven forever in my literal. first reaction was who the fuck wants to do that? How long do you have to do open mics in heaven before you get to be headlining?

Like, if eternity, that's what I'm saying. And I would like wake my mom up in night. So that was like my first thing. And then just the quick and the dirty of it is. But unlike like what you were saying, like that was my existential crisis with the religion. My parents and the church that I grew up in, they were actually sincerely really cool, loving people. Like the story you told earlier about getting, you know, your mouth washed out, you know, that, I didn't have that. I didn't even know that was a thing until I was probably in the high school beginning in college.

That's when I started to realize how hateful Christianity could be. Because the church I grew up in sincerely wasn't hateful. Don't get me wrong. If you ask those people, how do you feel about gays? I'm sure that you'd be like, oh, shit, you know. But we didn't talk about that on Sundays. It wasn't the focus of the church. And sometimes I think it fucked me up more that it was a somewhat positive experience.

if it was like hatefulness I could buy that and stuff I could say this is bullshit I could just be like fucking I'm out that was you that's what happened with me

because my uncle being gay and the church I went to it was always some shit about you know or it seemed to me like it was anyway and I mean yeah it made it super easy to walk away I mean the easiest shit ever

and that's me and you talk one time I did your show and I mentioned that like my whole thing is like you know I walked away from it easily and I'm not, I have no real hang-ups about religion, honestly, and really never have. And, like, I don't, I also don't, I hate it when Christians are shitty to other people are shitty to me for whatever reason, because I don't give a fuck what people believe.

I really don't, as long as they try, as long as they don't hurt anybody else because of it, or try to force other people to believe what they believe or live their life that way. And if I recall correctly, you told me that you were that way for a while, but you actually have shifted more into like I do care proactive no it's not okay to believe these things

yeah and you like you actively I actively try to convince people to stop believing yeah and I used to be like I said Perry so I used to be just like like you and

and say that but then thank you you got a giggle that's okay and then I realize these people I realize

I realize these people have kids right And they say shit to their kids like God's watching or get on your knees and say a prayer or sit in a circle and sing Jesus loves me. This I know for the Bible tells me. And they chant these chants over and over and over getting stuck in their head. And then they vote based on gay rights and based on a godly man in office. And they function day in and day out going let go and let God.

And it just it gets, it has a ripple effect and a negative impact on society. But those aspects of it literally are. culture. If it's not religion, it's something else. Like, having a ritual that you do... Dude, those people are going to vote Trump and shit anyway, probably without... That's not what I meant, but that's probably true, but that's not what I meant. I meant you are anthropologically defining culture. Are you not? This is how people ritualize their life. This is the way they vote.

But it's based on a falsehood, and if I can sit them down and say... Because they often say two things, two sentences that are completely contradictory. Like they'll do something, they'll say to their friend, let go and let God when something bad happens to their friend. And they feel like that's advice. But they go home and they still pay their bills and they pay their rent and their mortgage and they're, and they pay their car payments and they go to work and they put one foot in front of the other. They live their lives as though their life is up to them. But then they tell somebody else let go and let God.

And so I will just bring those two things together and say, why do you have a job and pay your bills and take Advil when you have a headache? But when your friend's life is crumbling down around them, why don't you give them, inspirational advice that will help them take control of their own destiny. Why do you say things like let go and let God? Which is a totally fair question, but I'm sorry, maybe I'm just not, because I haven't spent a lot of time in the world that you've spent it in. I'm sincerely, when I decided I'm kind of done with this, I sincerely went all of it. I'm not going to rail against it.

I'm not going to like question it. I'm just not going to think about it for at least a decade, and that's where I'm at right now, except I'm talking about you stage. I always thought of it, like, I would hear people, you know, when the stem cell research thing was still was a big deal but like Christopher Reeves was going against it so many people I heard going you can't play God you can't play God

and I'm like that's what insulin is you idiot like that's what are you talking about but and that is true and that's a fair point and you made a fair point but my question was I and pardon me if I'm just ignorant I don't see how that connects to what we were just saying I understand that you have

a problem with that culture uh you vote based upon your religion. If you took the religion out of it, would there not just be something else there? Maybe, but that's not a reason not to fight against what we know is causing it. I guess that's what I mean. There's always going to be a cause.

I guess what I'm saying, let me say it differently. I'm more now, like what Trey is, it's like, believe whatever you want. Don't fucking hurt anyone and don't be out in someone's face or whatever. And you're saying you used to be that way, but you took another step. And now you're like, no, let's fight against it. I can see that argument where it's like, look, Christianity is responsible for these bombings of abortion clinics. But when you're saying like, oh, they told their kids that and then their kids feel a certain way, if it weren't that, I do think it'd be another thing. Not necessarily.

I'm going to tell you what. In my opinion is homophobia, right? And what I mean, like I genuinely believe we, at one of our recent episodes, I mean, I was like, Drew, tell me, why is homophobia? Why is being gay, like one of the things they cherry pick from the Bible that just, it's unassailable. it's fucking wrong, it's an abomination, and they ignore all this other bullshit. Why? I think a huge, and this was the first thing out of Drew's mouth, I think a huge part of it is because like they're just fucking, they're disgusted by it.

They sickens them and whatever. And so with that one specific example of homophobia, I think those people, if they hadn't been raised in the church at all, if they weren't religious at all, I think they'd still hate gays because they'd still be like, what the fuck, that's fucking disgusting. It's a perfect example of what I'd say. I understand. But also, having said that, I mean, I don't really think you can separate religion and culture in those type of specific instances very much. They're very in a little.

But are they disgusted? Are they disgusted because they have just been fucking conditioned over years to just go. Right. And I don't know that's wrong. I'm saying like they've literally been told. Like if you didn't know shit about fuck, like you didn't know God, you didn't have read the Bible. You just came up and you just saw, you saw a dude banging a girl and all right. And then you saw a dude bang a dude.

You probably expect, well, those are two different things. I don't know, whatever. We have proof that it would be like that. The Greek society. Right. They just, that's how they were about it. Yeah, it's conditioning. I mean, you're not going to like what you're not going to like.

That's just like you and your fucking meat. But like... I guess what I'm saying is we could get rid of religion. I sincerely believe some other shitty condition and would replace it. Like, we're always going to be in a fight with something. Religion would happen again. Like, if you somehow men in black penned us right now, it would. It might be a minute, but somebody would fucking,

El Ron Hubbard, God damn. He just did it 50 years ago. Well, here's the thing. know what I'm saying? I'm actually talking on a broad cultural perspective, you're probably right overall. Something's always going to be there to debate. But our job as rational people in the world, as skeptical people, is to make that group as small as possible so that you can't have a negative impact on the rest of us. And I've seen it.

I've seen it hundreds of times. People who are raised Christian themselves believe being gay is wrong, believe that you've got to, you have to, you have to, you have to, you have to, you have to do this on Sunday mornings. You can't drink alcohol. You can't have sex outside of marriage. A masturbation you should beat your kids with belts and sticks. If they masturbate. I'm just telling you, there's a whole

list of shit that people do because of religion. And when they come out of their religion on their own, they stop putting that shit in their kids' heads. They stop saying little girls must wear pink. Little boys have to wear blue. My boy's going to be a damn football player. He ain't going to ballerina class.

Ain't nobody where I'm going to change that part. They start. they start letting go with that shit, for the most part, they start letting go of that shit when they let go of the basis for it, which is their religion. Now, religion still infiltrates our culture, even if we're secular. There are people who will feel guilty for having sex with more than one person, and then you'll have to sit down and they'll trace it back to their religious beliefs and they'll go shit. I don't have, why do we praise a young boy and call him a stud when he has sex with multiple women, but we slut-shame women who have sex with multiple boys? It comes from religion in our society. And slowly but surely, as I've seen people let go of religion, they let go of that archaic thinking and they make progress. But do they let go of all, and I'm going to take it back to your branding so your lawyers are to get off my back?

Do they let go of all dogmatic beliefs? And that's what I just talked about with Michael Shermer, is that atheists believe they are some of the greatest skeptics in the world because they got over the one big question, but they still believe all kinds of dumb shit without evidence. Well, I guess that's what I was. really trying to say just dumbly and like I said I've never actually waited into these waters very much because I just sort of other than making jokes about my own experience I've stayed away from it but like dogma will always be there that's what I should have said so somebody gets smaller if we get with a religion it becomes smaller it becomes people like the flat earthers that becomes the fringe thing or the people who deny the moon landing or people who think vaccines aren't a real thing we're going to start a movement called the fat earthers I think your face is

all I wanted out of that. I think where I'm, I don't know, it's kind of similar to Drew on this is that dude, I agree with you 100%. There's so much goddamn just conditioned religion that fucks up so many things. But like, I too came out of it. You know, I came out of it

and I let go of a lot of, I mean, there's still like, every now and then, me and him have this conversation. There'll be some Baptist guilt like hanker up. And I know it's fucking wrong. It's just one of them, your condition. It's a muscle memory. Like, you know, he's fucking, you know, jack off three times in a night. because I had her all was hit and you might feel a little bit of shame, but then you go,

that's fine out of head, I'll go to bed. Part of your bill, just real quick, then this doesn't necessarily have any effect on this exact topic. But part of your beauty as a human is that you don't feel a lot of shame. And I don't mean that. That sounds shitty.

Like, you're never ashamed. That's what I mean. Every now and then it comes up. You're one of the freest people. Let me say in a positive way. You're one of the freest people I've ever known. Do you think your atheism has to do with that?

But that's what I wanted to get into is that I am. But I came out of a place that it wasn't like that. But I came there on my own. I did that on my own. It wasn't beating into me. Like, I just was able to do it. And I kind of feel like that's part of the journey. So, like, I'm not saying, yeah, we shouldn't rail against this and go fight for it.

But if you start, to me, I'm a person. I don't want shit. The reason I came out of is, I was tired of having shit beating into my goddamn head. This is how this is how this is how this is how I want to be free. And now I'm free. So then I don't want to go join another goddamn group. And I agree with you. I'm just saying, like, man.

It's kind of like how a lot of like conservative. hillbillies or whatever feel about, you know, coastal elite liberals in that. Nobody wants to have it. Right. The more you're told about, you're wrong, you're stupid, and I know you don't do that. Yeah, yeah, I don't.

I'm always really respectful about it, for sure. Right, but I'm saying the more people do that to you and that's your percentage. I mean, guys, I don't go knocking on doors telling people. Well, that's literally what religion did. You're not an evangelist atheist, you're one of those new age, cool church. That's literally what religion did to me is like they were sitting there telling me, religion was sitting there telling me what you are is wrong.

Yeah. Because, you know, I like to cuss and have a good time, my friends, and fuck. Jilt and shame ruin people. But let me, let me address the joining the groups thing, because I know that seems to be kind of a common thing among all of you. Like, don't join a group and go shove it down other people's throats. The reason groups start spinning up is because people literally feel like they're the only person in Kansas who doesn't believe this bullshit anymore. And they're like, where can I go have a beer with somebody and make a Jesus joke without getting kicked out of my fucking half? house.

By the way, I'm not, my experience. I know, I know, I know. I know. I know. And then also there's a

political activist situation here where there are groups that try to raise funding to go lobby on the Capitol Hill for Congress to say, hey, let's make a law

that all sex education has to be medically accurate. You can't just tell a group of 16-year-olds fucking will give you AIDS. It doesn't work. They do it anyway, unprotected.

So let's do medically accurate sex education. Because of secular values like that, they'll say, we need members to gain the money to pay our employees to go lobby, select groups like secular coalition for America. Or if they decide to put a giant Jesus statue on your kids elementary school and the principal happens to be a pastor at the local church, so they're letting it happen, how do the secular people in that community get representation? They call groups like Freedom from Religion Foundation that will come in with attorneys and say,

you're not allowed to do this, you're breaking the constitution. That's the benefit of joining groups. It's not to go door knock and shove it down people's throes. And I agree with you on that and here's where we differ I believe. I fucking, I absolutely will join a goddamn group that tries to define for these people the separation of church and state

because I do believe in that. What I'm saying is on a personal level. Look, it shouldn't be the one thing. Now you do whatever fuck you want to do. I don't give a shit. But don't do that goddamn shit. Also, all we've talked about so far to me is, you know, when I first started this, you know, opened this question up, I said, as long as, you know, you're not hurting other people or like, you know, shoving, wanting other people to believe how you believe in whatever else, then I'm okay with it. Yeah. Well, in my opinion, like, everything that you've said, you're like, there's people out there, they, you know, they make their kids do this, they put these ideas in their head.

Those are behaviors. Yeah. I'm saying, to me, all of that falls under the umbrella of what I said, which is like, yeah, I'm, yeah, I'm. not down with that and I and I totally agree with you especially in the South where we're from that's the majority of what you see but I I do absolutely believe that there are Christians out there that like are actually Christ-like however novel they might be and you know or just love thy neighbor and are kind and are kind and like charitable and help people and like so because those people exist I'm

not I just don't if someone says I'm a Christian I'm not gonna immediately be like well, you shouldn't be. Okay, let me stop you there, because I never say that. I say, why. Tell me why. And I like to explore their faith, and what I implore is called a Socratic method. I ask a series of questions and get them to answer it because a lot of times they've never had to think about that question before. And the thing is, you may not see that person doing that stuff.

They're just a regular dude out in public to you. And here's the difference. What I've learned is those people who appear to me to be the harmless, do their own thing, Christian, at some point, if their belief is never challenged, they're going to come across it, and their four-year-old turns into it a 13-year-old and goes, Dad, I think I like other little boys, and then they get the talk into of a lifetime.

Well, you realize you'll go to hell for that. That kid starts to internalize it and try to kill himself at 16. So I just try to plant the seeds and go, why do you believe this? And do you know it's true? Maybe not, though. My me-ma, actually.

Maybe not. Yeah, of course. Really, no one on my dad's side of the family went to church, I think for the same reason that I stopped going because of my uncle being gay having said that. Oh, I mean, yeah, that, well, yeah, that hell. My mom never went to church either, but she still said if we allowed interracial dating, what's next fucking pigs? That's what I'm saying.

I mean, that mindset. My family wasn't that way. And my, Ma' Ma'am in particular adores her gay son. And help me. She defends the fuck out of me at every opportunity just for being a godless, commie liberal, you know. But over the past few years, Ma Ma Ma Ma Ma has started going to church. again and she goes to church every Sunday and I wasn't thrilled when I heard that but like she still she not that politics or religion had to be conflated but like she's she fucking

hates Donald Trump she's a Democrat she's a you know liberal person for the most part fucking snowflake I mean you know yeah my man yeah buddy Lord I'd love to see one of those assos call your meme a snowflake when she was near her frying pan but she goes she goes to church every single Sunday and I think generally believes that stuff and I'm saying that's my me mom I I got people in my family just like that and I don't talk to them about it. I have no problem with that at all. And I'm saying there are people out there like that. I agree with you.

Well, let me bring it home though and make your point, you know, by way of example of my own life, but then wonder out loud what the alternative is. And here's what I'm saying. I'm going to let you get that. Let me just say one thing real quick. Yeah. I don't actively go seek Christians and say, hey, I think you're wrong about your beliefs. It's always in a situation where I'm in an Uber and the guy.

goes, well, thank God that tornado took a left turn and wiped out that other neighborhood. And I go, wait a minute. You think God chose that neighborhood over us. You've heard a dude and say that? Absolutely, word for word. That's the type of shit that makes me go, and I start trying to actively deconvert that person at that moment. I don't go knock on Mamaw's door and say, Jesus, you're full of shit believing in Jesus. I'm not that guy.

But typically what I do, 95% of the time is I'm inviting pastors, preachers, church leaders who were actively teaching other people. I invite them on my show, and they love these conversations. Yeah, because a lot of them, you know, they deal in the existential, and that's why they were attracted to be in that role in the first place. I totally get while my dad became a preacher because he and I are very similar in terms of personality. And it's like being attracted to those deeper questions and wanting to engage in people in those deeper questions, I have that aspect of my personality, too, you know what I mean? But what I was going to say, and I think this makes your point,

but then I also want to sort of, not challenge it, but like ask a question after it, which is this. My parents were very loving. They didn't preach hate for, you know, homosexuals in the church or to me. There wasn't a lot of, you can't do this or you're going to, there was none of that. There was never, you can't do X or you go to hell. There was none of that. It was very much kind and loving. But the religion itself put fears inside me that I couldn't grapple with as a 10-year-old.

And those wounds, I am just in the last four or five. years getting over. But everyone I know, with like the exception of like five people and some of them grew up religious, have some kind of fucked up one from their childhood that fucked them up forever. Do you know what I mean? Is religion the only culprit, I guess? No, absolutely not. Absolutely not.

It's not the only culprit. Yeah, because mine was different than his. Like, it was not. I mean, the actual church I went to is like, eh, whatever is kind of a hybrid of the two. But then this dude that used to go to our church who we, they still chat with. than talked to. He's a big dude in our community. Like, his, he was the, he went and joined another church to become their pastor from the church I was going to. I guess he, he quit the band and he went on tour by himself or whatever the

fuck it is. But, yeah, my dad is an indie band priest. Yeah, yeah. He's not with the Southern band was convention. He caught his son, uh, jacking off when he was 12 and he made his son go in front of the entire church and tell them what he had done. That's the type of shit I'm told. Oh, my God. But that would infuriate my parents. Right, right. I know I know. But I was still wounded. In spite of that my parents do what being a decent person was. You know it's biblical. Confess your sins before man and I shall confess you before my father in heaven.

They're supposed to, they're being biblically accurate and that's why I'm against the shit. And I tell people that stupid shit's in there. Well, it also says in the Bible that it's for heretics to pray out loud because that's for showmanship and you should pray internally into yourself. But they absolutely ignore the fuck out of that. Bingo, that's Matthew 5, 6 through 5. Those two are in conflict, a lot of it. It's heretical to be praying out loud, but you're supposed to confess. Oh, really?

The Bible's in conflict of itself. Shut down. Yeah. Well, that's there's shitloads of contradictions. No, I know. I know what you're saying. But I could spend that the other way. You know what I mean?

Like, yeah, we all know the Bible's contradictory. Yeah. But for people that it means something to, they just sort of go like. That's why it fucks them up so bad. Well, but they say, oh, well, you know, man was trying to interpret the word of God. And I believe that. And of course, there's going to be some weirdness when that happened. Almost every time.

almost every time this happens and I have someone on my show that either claims to be a Christian or preach or pastor, whatever, I will inevitably get 10, 15 emails immediately after that show goes out from Christians. They go, that dude wasn't a real Christian. Have me on your show. And I'll show you what real Christianity's like. And that's why I've had a show for five and a half years. Yeah. That's what people say. That's what people say about us, but remove the word Christian and they say redneck.

I'm very interested. it's like the perfect catch 22. There's no way my father would go on your show, I think. Because he's not those people you were just talking about. You know what, though? He's like that. He's like that. You know what we end up doing when I have guys like that on my show?

We spend the first 15 minutes bagging on shitty Christians together. And we have a fun. They do that usually. They'll say, here's all the thing wrong with most Christians and most pastors. And then once we've developed that friendship, we find something that we disagree. about in the Bible and have a really respectful conversation. I feel like you guys would definitely do

that thing where you have like this respectful conversation about something you disagree with about. But I just, as soon as I told him, I disagreed with something, he'd say, I don't give a shit if you disagree or not. And that'd be the end of it. He might. It's wild. It's wild. Yeah, but First Peter 315 says, always be prepared to offer a defense for your faith, but do so with gentleness and respect.

So if you're being biblical, you need to defend your faith. Yeah, but he would probably say you, my dad's super smart. He would probably say, yeah, but you brought me here to put on a fucking spectacle for your so you could get your brand out there. I mean, you know what I mean? There's like a certain level of... When I said that to Jay Moore, who is a self-identifying Catholic, I said, you need to offer

to defend. He said, no, my religion is just mine. I don't owe you shit. I said, well, First Peter 315 says to always be prepared to offer to the... He said, yeah, that Bible also says that a man lived in a Wales asshole. And that was the end of that conversation. Yeah, I'd like to point out another point. You've done...

Well, that's what I was saying a minute ago. Like, you... There are Christians who would be like, yeah, but you can't take it super literally. Go ahead. You don't talk too much about how your dad don't trust Bank. makes on that shit. He does not want any chance of going viral at all. That's what I'm saying. He loves anonymity. So like this is want to go viral.

There's no way he wants that. Really? Because he would because he don't want to. That'd be the thing. It'd be fire. And I think that his belief is and I don't want to speak for him because Jesus Christ Wow, that was weird. That was weird. I think his belief is like that that's not at all

what my job is. And I know that there are Christian pastors who believes that that's what their job is. To spread it huge and go viral. and all that. And I think his is more like, no, in my community, in my community,

I'm supposed to do a certain job. And if I'm worried about what this guy who lives in L.A. wants, or if I'm just out there trying to get my name out there, that's when trouble starts. That's when I become Joel Olstein. And again, he hates those people more than me. They came on the TV one time together,

and he was so mad. And I was like, that was a good moment for us. I was probably like 24. And I just started to, like, get away from all that. and I realized he was fierce. I was like, Dad, do you like, hate this? And he goes, there's nothing worse than this. And as I started doing comedy later, I realized it's how I feel about a hack.

Because people come to a comedy show and they hear a shitty comedian and it's something I care about. And they think, well, this is what comedy is. And so whatever they feel about it and they hate it, now that's how they feel about comedy. He's like, he was basically explaining to me, this is the only experience of Christianity that a lot of people have. That's how I feel about asshole atheists. I'm certain. That's exactly the same way. Send your preachers and Christians to me, and I'll be nice to them, I promise.

Oh, yeah, please do that. We're going to wrap this one up, but David's actually going to stick around, so you'll get more of him on a future episode with the lovely Mona Shake. That'll be a good and too. This one has been good. Hell, I kind of feel bad retroactively. Talk about ham too much time on ham. Buddy, I ain't never felt bad about ham for too long.

I have a feeling that on the next one we're going to end up talking about ham a lot. For a slightly different reason It's a teaser But anyway David Again, thank you enough, brother I appreciate it You got anything you want Specifically to like plug or put out there

Other than you know Everybody listen to the dogman debate Follow me on Twitter David C. Smalley on Twitter That's where I share everything And dogman debate Dogmat debate.com Yeah check it out

It's a great show Thank you so much that we appreciate it Can I ride your motorcycle? No That's what I figured you should All right All right guys Thank you very much

Come see us next time. All right. Skew! Thank you all for listening to the well-read show. We'd love to stick around longer, but we got to go. Tune in next week if you got nothing to do. Thank you, God bless you, good night, and Skew.