wellRED podcast - BUBBA SHOT: Seminole Wind

Episode Date: March 4, 2022

John Anderson is a singular figure in 90s country - already a throwback and seemingly on his way out the door, he revived his career with a hot album in 1992. The title track of that album was a song unlike any other Anderson had recorded. We dive into "Seminole Wind" and the history of Florida Natives. 

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And we thank them for sponsoring this episode of the podcast. They're the... Bubba shout the podcast and that's right. A show about country. Welcome to Bubba shot the podcast. First, the facts. Simital Wind is a song by country music artist John Anderson. It was released in all.

August of 1992, it was the fourth single, but also the title track of the album of the same name. It peaked at number two in the United States and number one in Canada. It was initially a B-side on the second single release, straight Tequila Night, a song we should do on this. Damn. The one has been covered by Donna the Buffalo as well as James Taylor. That was in 98 and 2008, respectively. The song's a rad song. What's up, fellas?

How are we doing? I had not listened to this in a long time, and it is much more acceptable than I expected. Yep, yep. That's a great point. I, this song's kind of just one of those. There's just always around in my life.

It's just on a lot, but I haven't, it's so much that I don't really listen to as much, and I was thinking, I was like, okay, really pay attention to this court, because I bet you're about to get Bertie Raven. And a couple things, though. Number one, the fact,

there's no way in my mind I would have thought that this wouldn't have gone number one. And number two, when you said we were doing Seminole Wind, I was like, wait, that song didn't come out in like 83, 84 or something like that. This seems like a very 80s song. Well, this was his comeback album. He had been, so John Anderson's career is an interesting one. So he is from Apopka, Florida. And his first musical instrument, instruments, Florida influences were rock and roll people.

But then when he discovered George Jones and Merle Haggard, he was like, that's it. and he moved to Nashville in 71, unannounced, rocking up at his sister's house, and started doing odd jobs. And let me get a picture as quickly as I can. I wasn't planning on doing one until I thought of this just now of John Anderson. I want to just show everybody watching on YouTube and you guys. Just think about obviously a younger version, but the same, like I've seen pictures of him. He's had the same hairstyle, same look his whole life.

He looks like a-hitting lunch lady. he does look like a lunch lady i don't know if she hits imagine that rocking up at your house unannounced oh you want some fat back beans boys yeah so anyway he arrives in nashville in the 70s and eventually he works his way into the business takes him about six years in 77

with i've got a feeling somebody's been stealing and breaks into the top 40 with the girl at the end of the bar. His backwards accent and deep voice landed him at the forefront of what they'd called at the time, the new traditionalist movement with people like Ricky Skaggs and George Strait. So in the late 70s and 80s, he was considered, you know, a throwback as a new guy. We've lost Corey. What happened? I don't know.

It was riven. I'm sorry. It's all good. I assume you could hear me. So you're keeping up with what we were talking about? No, my internet completely fucked up. Oh, my bad. I was saying that when this guy broke through in the late 70s, early 80s,

he was considered a new traditionalist or part of what they were calling the new traditionalist movement, along with Ricky Skaggs and George Strait. So as soon as he comes out at the gate as a new guy, he's considered a throwback in the 80s. So for the 80s, he's considered a traditionalist. He has a good career in the 80s, fades away for a few years. has some albums not do too well and then makes a comeback in 92 all that is a long way of both explaining his background but to your point Corey he was an 80s guy yeah like it sounded like the 80s because he was an 80s guy yeah it's good shit that wasn't a knock I didn't mean to say like

oh this sounds like a shit 80 I fucking loved this song but yeah yeah I never I never knew any of that about john Anderson or if I did I had forgotten it I just always assumed this I hear what you're saying about the way it sounds, but I just felt like I knew that in my head, this is definitely a 90s country song, just because that's when I was listening all the rest of these songs, and it was always around. But some of them we've talked about have ended up being from the 80s, and I didn't know that. So I wouldn't have been surprised, but I didn't know that this was a comeback album. I didn't know none of that. It kind of makes sense a little bit retroactively for me personally, because, like, I can always remember my dad being sort of cool with John Anderson a bit, and I always,

thought it was just because of his barbecue sauce, you know, like John Anderson had a barbecue sauce. Oh, yeah. My dad, and I was like, you know, I thought my dad was like, ah, hell, he can't be too bad, you know, tried, tried this shit. That's how you get my dad for sure. But it makes, uh, it makes some more sense if he had been kind of like,

if he, you know, originally was around in like the 70s and 80s and whatnot, my dad probably would have just naturally respected him more or whatever. That's probably why a lot of old folks still love George straight in the 90s, because they just fucked with him from, you know, the 80s, I guess. Yeah. Well, one of the reasons I wanted to talk to about his background is, I think a lot of people don't know. A lot of people know who John Anderson is, but don't really know anything about him because he was before our time. Even as a 90s guy, he was on his way out, and he didn't stick around in the 2000s the way that George Strait did.

So he's just sort of one of those guys. He's like an outlaw post-outlaw, kind of a strange, you know, I don't know, place and time for him to be there. He's one of those I would call legit artist, you know, not just a pretty face. I mean, you guys saw the picture. Yeah. Yep, that's pure sex back in, buddy. Absolutely.

On this album, Seminole Wins is also the name of the album. He has songs written by Kent Robbins, Max Barnes, Bobby Braddock, Vince Melamed, who wrote Walkaway Joe, which I love. He has co-writers on every song he wrote, except. for one. And that one is seminal wind. Here you go, Tuchar. It's what I'm saying you're always pointing out that they don't write them, which

is often the case. Well, this is, I think, the first time maybe we've covered a song that was entirely written by the guy singing it. Yeah, it is. That's awesome. Pretty positive. Also, while we're on that note, I think that we, you know, we've just come off of four weeks straight. I would like to propose another month-long specialty episodes that are just the best B-sides, because this is a hell of a B-side to a single. You know what I mean? That'd be interesting

to look into. Yeah, and I don't know how it works with, you know, in terms of the business back them. Were they planning on releasing it as a single, but just wanted it out there? Was that a test? We'll make it a B-side. If people kind of like it, then we'll put it out as a single. And for folks who don't know back then, putting it out as a single was a big deal because it was hard to get radio play if you didn't officially release something as a single and essentially payola its way onto the radio if you weren't already an established star for a guy like this he's a legacy artist at the time but he's faded into obscurity you know i'm sure people were at least a little shocked now the song that relaunched him was straight tequila night which we should do at some point

but that's a good plan corey the problem with that plan is i'm not going to research songs beforehand to find that out but i like finding out the week of that they would be so sides. I really do enjoy that. I'll do some digging for you, buddy. I used to back in the era of CDs, because, you know, when they said put something out as a single, they would literally put out a physical copy of a single, like, that you could buy as a CD. And they would have like B sides on them. And I used to do that on account of poor, you know, singles were like, I don't, like $2.99 or something like that. Yeah. They were much less expensive. And I would do that. And in my mind, all the B sides and all the singles I ever bought were always, some of them

hit, but they were always like, you know, they were B-Sat, they were like obscure. They were things you didn't hear like anywhere else or whatever. It was, you know. Well, I hear artists all the time, sometimes they'll talk about like a song that was like a surprise hit for them. And I've often heard them say like, yeah, we'd, heck, we put it out as a B-side, you know?

Like, in my mind, it was just like, yeah, we got to put something on there. Yeah. Well, it's interesting too because this album, as his comeback album and this song, he had written this song years before. And either by his own choice, I couldn't find enough information or the studios,

they wouldn't let him use it. They didn't think it would be a hit. And I don't know if he just like was not important enough for anybody to argue with at some point or if it was his decision, he didn't think it would be a hit. And then he was like, ah, fuck it. I'm fading away anyway.

Let me throw it out there. Now, again, I don't want to be. make it sound like it saved his career. Straight Tequila Night is absolutely what did that. But that was interesting to me because our people, our people being white trash, white southerners, have an obsession with Native Americana

and the whole lore surrounding them. It's often what I like to call, is benign racism a thing Indian outlaw? Probably no racism is benign. I know what you're talking about, though. They don't realize they're being right. You're right. not ill will.

They're being ignorantly racist instead of just like, these people don't hit. My aunt Donna had about 57 Native American figurines in her trailer, and she told me that she wanted to be a squall. Now, it's racist to say that, but she did not have racist feelings about Indians, other than perhaps sort of the, you know, the gays, what am I trying to say, like the men do it to women?

What's that word we use? Exotic. You know, it might be exotifying them a little bit. But other than that, she had good intentions. I think, I mean, when I first read, when I first listened to this song, I listened to it with my mom on the way back from, I picked her up from the library because there's a tornado warning here. And I just listened to it right before this thing started.

Really cute. And she, I was like, what is this song about mom? And she's like, I don't know, something about the wind was really cute. it. And then I, it was a really good wind. It was a seminal wind. That's a great connect in my mind to what we were talking about with. Your dead dad last week is like, your dad's saying this stuff and your mom's like,

you're like, what did he say, mom? You're like, oh, I don't know, something about the neighbors. Um, I think that, like when I read the lyrics, I was like, when I read the lyrics, I was Like, are you guys fucking with me because I'm the Indian outlaw? Like, it didn't make it too. I was like, why any white person singing songs about a group of people that they were slaughtered? And this seems to be in love. But I still don't really know what the song's about because I'm kind of an idiot.

Well, it's also, let's get into it. What is it about? I don't know what the hell is going on to the song. Right. Well, he establishes a reality. modern reality, but with almost no commentary on it other than general sadness. So let's get into that and let's talk about the Seminole people and all that. Now, just so you know and for people listening, I would say most of our listeners know this.

Not only is there an obsession with like Indian folklore and Indian figurines and Indian artifacts in the American South. There's also an obsession with the notion that you are in fact native. Of course. Corey's dad, you know, his, his mama used to get phone calls every, every weekend from who was it? Soggy Sanuk. Yeah, Soggy Sanuk. Yeah, he was on the Cherokee Reservation. Yeah. And Soggy Sanuk would call her allegedly drunk as fuck.

And they would talk because, yeah, when I was a kid, I was always told like, you know, your grandmama's got just as much Cherokee blood in her as most people over at that reservation. I'm just like, I don't know. That's not true. whatever, you know, that's... Most people at that reservation. Yeah. What's the joke, Trey? The, yeah, the, like, the famous street joke about it is what do you call 16 white people in a room together, a full-blooded Cherokee?

Because everybody's at least 116. 116th, yeah. In the South. Drew, the word, were you looking at fetish size? Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Because that's, that is what, definitely what the white people were talking about do with Native Americans.

And it's like, and also, Colin, this particular brain. benign, definitely don't track considering, you know, what we did to the next. Right. But these people didn't. I know that. But I think it's like if they weren't, if we hadn't, you know, if our ancestors hadn't genocided them and they were still around to be more active in all of this, I don't know if there would still exist this same level of fascination that people have with them.

Yeah. In my opinion. I think casual racism was maybe a better phrase that I was looking for where it's less overt. It's the only type of racism, though, where, like, they are, though, saying that they are a member of this race. You know what I'm saying? Like, they wouldn't do that with any other, like, you never, remember if some Papal makes a Chinese joke, they don't go, no, I'm one-16th Chinese. Don't worry about it. But I'm not talking about that specifically.

I was talking about the song at that point when I was looking for the right word. Dojardard, were you going to say anything before I read these lyrics? Yeah, it is just strange. It almost makes me think of like a white blonde girl at a BLM protest march. Something about it of like I'm overcompensating and this is my white guilt kind of coming out. So I'm going to kind of pay homage. I don't think John Anderson had a single drop-b-reelch. I've never thought about it like that.

The way I've always thought about it was is it's just a way for white people to feed into their need to be a victim. You know what I mean? They're just like, oh, I'm just going to claim to be a part of this group. And then I can say whatever I want. And they always throw it out there whenever. It only ever comes up whenever there's a ball. I'm sorry. Just so unclear.

Are we talking about people claiming to be Indian or this song? No, people claim to be any of this. I think you're sure some of the song. But maybe I know. Okay. Okay. All right. My bad.

Maybe one of the same. Is John Anderson part something? I don't know if he claims that or not. It wouldn't surprise me if he did, but I do think that we've got to be clear about what we're talking about here. Because there's a certain thing in Southern culture in terms of how we treat, you know, Cherokee culture specifically, but then more broadly, Native American culture. And then there's this song, which is a part of that.

But I guess I'm just pointing out that I think some things are true of the culture that are not true of the song. Sure. I think there's a bunch of different reasons, you know, like the more hippie types, they also fucking love Indians just because, you know, feathers and spirituality and dream catchers and, you know, weeds and animals and weed and shit. Paiote, yeah. Yeah, fucking them rocks and pretty rocks they got, you know, all that stuff hits for that type of white person. Is that hit for? Like, who that hit for?

People hating feathers. Rocks are fine. I mean, I can take away. I ain't hanging it all up in my bedroom and shit. I ain't got no problem with it. I'm not anti-dring catcher, but I'm saying like, but then the more traditional redneck types, it's not all that.

I don't think that makes them obsessed with Native Americans. It's just whatever, some combination of all the other things we said or something. With my dad, I know it was the living off the land and hunting for your food and not having, you know, paperwork and taxes and banks.

And you know what I mean? It was like, a sort of a fetishization of that part of their lifestyle. They were also in all the movies. Free warrior. Sure, yeah. I mean, that's where, cowboy and Indian movies is what the obsession starts with.

I mean, when, yeah, like the movies that my dad watched as a kid were almost exclusively westerns. Like, they made so many of those. And like, there was Native Americans, you know. And it is, sorry, go ahead. I was just saying a lot of those westerns, even the gnarliest of the tribe,

however they made them look they would always add some character who was like you know there's some honor to these savages you know right that are played by mexicans right yeah i just i just wanted to point out that the last song was a purely cowboy and this is purely indian and it's it's um this one seems more racist although it's cowboys that kills indians so that That should have been more. Phil from Chico, I can't remember his last name. He goes by Phil from Chico on stage. He used to have a joke when the Redskins, the team, the Redskins, when that was just popping off. He was like, you're making them change the only names related to the natives.

Why don't you change the names, Cowboys, Vikings, Patriots? I mean, every other fucking team is who murdered these people. All right, let's get into the lyrics. Because, man, we haven't gone this far without starting in a while. That's a good episode already. Here we go. Ever since the days of old, men would search for wealth untold. They dig for silver and for gold and leave the empty holes.

And way down south in the Everglades, where the blackwater rolls and the sawgrass waves, the eagles fly and the otters play in the land of the Seminole. So blow, blow, Seminole wind. Blow like you're never going to blow again. I'm calling to you. I'm calling to you like a long-lost friend, but I know who you are. And blow, blow from the Okeechobee all the way up to Manacopee. Blow across the home of the Seminole, the alligator and the gar.

It's like a children's book. Yeah, there's a lot of naturalistic references. There's a lot of chants going on, too. You know, it's very rhythmic. I'm going to throw myself under the bus here. It sounds like how I write jokes from time to, time wherein I don't really know what's happening but then words sure do sound good when you put them all together you know what I mean yeah it's to a certain extent I know what you mean but

but also like your jokes there's definitely a theme here and it's it's doing a good job of allowing the listener to fill in some holes but it's pretty clear from now you might have to listen to the song rather than read it to get this from from the tone of his voice in the music that he's not super happy about men searching for wealth untold and leaving the empty holes. This is an attempt at a pro-Indian kind of anti-capitalism,

very much pro-environmental song in 1992 from John Anderson. It's kind of wild. I always just sort of automatically interpreted this. Well, first, one small note, you know, the last line of course is alligator and the gar. My whole life until just now, I thought it was alligators

in the dark. I did too. I did too. It's funny because, like, they are also there in the daytime. Like, I don't, you know,

but I just, I never, that's what are scariest. In the dark. What is the gar? It's like an alligator fish. It's the scariest shit you will ever fucking see in your life.

I remember when I was like eight years old. Dude, it's wild. I was fishing. I was like, hey, we were out of trout fishing or whatever the hell. And I pulled one up and this damn guard

just like plops up in the pontoon. And buddy, I mean, like, I had just seen Jurassic Park, and I thought some shit was going down. They're like, they're wild. They don't hit. Horanas. Like, they're the wasp. The wasps of the lake.

But it's like an alligator fish. Yeah. That's what a gar is. It's an abomination of God is what it is. And I don't think they're that, like, dangerous or scary. No, I don't think so either. They're just, they look rough. They're one of them animals that got that, you know, that misfortune.

of like a possum. They really are not harmful or anything, but people see them and they're like, oh, kill it. You know. Yeah. Oh, man, I keep doing that, dumb thing. Just because of how it looks.

Yeah, I don't. If you cute, you can get away with literal murder, you know, and the animal. What are you think of that too, Shahr? That I know. That is. So that's a gar. Just a cartoon.

Just a quick aside before Trey, you finished, because you did that aside and we got to get back to. your point. I thought it said Okacho Bend and then Minico's men and I just never questioned that. I always thought it. Chobie and Minicobe. I always thought it was Okachow Ridge. I knew because I had heard of Okachovia.

That's the lake, right? I knew it was Okachobi, but I always thought but the second one, I didn't know what he said. I thought it was some kind of peak, which they don't have peaks in Florida. I never thought about this shit. You know what I mean? It's like, yeah, Minenol Peak. That's up there, you know, but like there ain't no peaks in Florida. Well, what was your point?

Then we're going to talk about the accuracy of the chorus. I always assumed that the sort of general theme of this song is like a mournful recollection of a lost way of life. It's like celebrating what this land was, whose it was, and also outlining what happened to it and being sad about that. And it's like all that's left is the wind that blows us. if you listen closely and actually we'll get to that later you know like you can hear in the wind the the souls of those that went before type of thing which is like a very like how movies portray you know every tribe's religion right whether that's accurate or not but we've been on that side of this talking about the fetishization but now let's get into the whole cultural appropriation

conversation there's another side to it that I think is valid of like yes but like how do we honor a culture that we like? Whether we mean white people or just society at large, I think it's pretty clear that on some level, John Anderson is not just fetishizing the Seminoles, but is like feeling some of their pain or at least attempting to. Well, we can get into the video now. He had to get permission to shoot that video on the lands that he was on,

and he did get permission from the Seminole tribes. there's more than one, which we'll get into in a second. And he sat with actual Seminoles. He did not hire Mexicans for that music video. There you go. He's setting with actual tribesmen. They heard the song. They approved, you know, what if he was doing.

Does that mean that everyone has to accept it? No, of course not. But my point is he at least convinced the Seminole people's leadership, you know, that, you know, this is all above board. It definitely seems like it's hard to the right place. right did you guys watch the music video I did

it was real dark on my I don't know if that was just like my computer but it was a very dark dark video and I couldn't tell all the time

what was going on I saw him singing and there was a bunch of shit swaying I don't think I watched the right video Harry well the video too short

I thought you meant it was dark like the themes were dark no no I mean yeah but like it it was just a very

dark shot video. The quality wasn't great. Yeah. You know, because it's old, it's an old video and it hasn't been like remastered or whatever.

So it was kind of, you know, hard to tell what was going on at points. Too sure, you might have seen just the like, the live version. The live version. I think I watch it.

I have it running right now. The video, you have the real video? Yeah, in the background. That live version is pretty good too. Those, those strings,

that violin. That's gorgeous. Gets me every time, man. It starts making me think of Aunt Donna's figurines. Well, the music video itself is pretty on the nose. You've got Indians, traditions. Then there's

a large group of Indian tribes performing with Anderson beside a campfire. And, you know, again, it's 1992. I don't think now, now people would be like, all right, if we're going to do this, Can we not do a campfire like Jesus Christ?

Who needs a campfire in Florida in 2022? To defend it a little bit, they wouldn't be doing this goddamn song now in how country music is. You know what I mean? This don't check any of the goddamn boxes for 2022 countries. So hell. That's true. It is impressive how many drone-esque shots they have,

but there's no drones back then. No, they're using real airplanes. Or trying to. Or, Trane Daegles. Attached the cameras to spirits. Yeah, or that. Right. It is kind of gross to, you know, just looking at this objectively, like,

white man shows up, kills everyone. Then white man makes song about what he killed. Well, I mean, John Anderson didn't kill nobody. I know, but he's, this guy's making money off of it. Yeah, but like 200 years passed in the meantime. And you're right. There's something odd about, we were talking about it earlier. Is it guilt?

Is it fetishization? What is it? Or is it just like a true appreciation of things that were there? And, you know, it's hard to say, I would, I would wager. I don't know this for a fact. Just based upon that lunch lady ID picture I had up earlier, that he's got some ideas that some political views that don't line up with the best interests of Native American people.

But I don't know that. I don't know. I mean, look how we look. You know what I mean? I would love for this song to be saying by like a Dolly Parton. Okay, what would be different about it? I don't know. There's something about a white woman doing it for some reason.

Or just Dolly. You just used to white women doing that kind of thing. Right. It's like, yeah, it could be the theme song to, you know, that store anthropology or urban outfitters. Right, right. You know, their new seminal wind line.

I could definitely say them doing that. Yeah, Andy would show me pictures and be like, can we buy this? And I would be like, it's $700. I don't think so. Let's get back to the lyrics. Progress came

and took its toll. And in the name of flood control, they made their plans and they drained the land. Now the glades are going dry. And the last time I walked in the swamp, I stood up on a cypress stone. I listened close and I heard the ghost of Osceola cry.

There you go. So blow, blow, seminal win. Blow like you're never going to blow again. I'm calling to you like a long-lost friend, but I know who you are. And blow, blow, blow from the Okeechobee all the way up to Mechanope. Blow across the home of the Seminole, the alligator, and the gar. All right. Now we can really get into what we're talking about.

And I didn't realize the whole episode would kind of be about this. I primed up to get into it right here, which is John, Anderson has a lot of historical accuracy and references in this song that are pretty spot on. I mean, I think when he walked into there, to the, you know, to the campfire, to the sweat lodge, no, when he walked into the building with the elders, and he was like, this is the song I want to record. Here's a legit song. Will you allow it? Exactly. He had his wampum. We traded him three white women. Yeah. Yeah. In exchange. When he did that, he had this song. He had this there are a lot of like accurate references.

So, Osceola was one of the leaders of the Senate. That's that dude from that Super Bowl commercial, right? Did it cry? That cried, yeah. Oh, was that Osceola? Oh, dude, you fuck me. You said that was such confidence. Right.

He said, here's the ghost of Osceola cried. I was like, I know the Indian to cry. Yeah, litter. Now, it turns out that dude was Italian or some shit. Yeah, yeah. He really was. He wasn't Indian at all. And didn't give a fuck about littering.

No, I was just fucking around. Osceola. Go ahead. Cursing the Jews. You can do that to Italians. You're allowed to... Okay. What was I saying?

Osceola. Osceola was one of the leaders of the Seminole during the Seminole war. The Seminole War goes back to who? None other than the gradius... What did Corey call him? The LeBron James or maybe his tray of killing him. Andrew Jackson. That was me.

Andrew Jackson. Pew, pew, pew, pew, pew. Andrew Jackson was involved in the first relocation of the various Indian tribes across Florida, put them on a reservation in central Florida, moved them out of the north part of Florida, which is where John Anderson grew up. Upon doing this, at that time, Florida had not become a settled American state yet. Spain was still down there fucking around,

and with the treaty they had going on, had legitimate rights in certain parts of Florida to be there. So the leadership of Spain says, because we've got, you know, all these things called slaves going on over here, leadership of Spain says, hey, if you can fucking make it to Florida, you're not a slave anymore. We'll give you food and a place to live and, of course, a gun, because we're still kind of technically at a little bit of a war, not a war, but like our borders ain't really secure with these fucking Americans, right? Like war. Just still down there just looking for gold and magical fountains and all that shit they were doing. Just popping off.

Tell them black people, come here, be free, we'll give you a gun. God damn, it ain't nothing but big lizards and body bugs down here. It's bullshit.

Ain't no gold. I thought it's supposed to be cities of gold and water that would make me young again. That's what Spain felt screwed over. And imagine being a black, you know, hey,

you can come, you shouldn't be a slave. That's wrong. Come on down here. Wink, wink. We need more fucking workers. It's so funny to think that before like pain pills and hooters show

up. Florida was still on some Florida shit. It's the same with Australia. Yeah. Like it's always been a little bit more wild than everywhere else. It's the same with America. We were founded on lies and now we're still a grift. Yeah. You can't get that out of your national DNA.

Anyway, so that's what's going on. This is like in the early, sorry, the mid-1800. It's like 1830s-ish, right? History passes as it does, skirmishes here and there. Well, now you've got two or three generations of escaped slaves doing settlements beside relocated Indians.

Well, what happens? Well, they all start to mingle, start to fuck, start to have their own traditions, but traditions that they create together, et cetera, et cetera. That is essentially what becomes what is known as the Seminole people. Like we often do, most people think that's a name we fucking gave them, because one of the Spanish leaders called them a word, a Spanish word, I want to say seminore, which meant wild ones. Like, hey man, don't even be trying to, like, get them to listen to you.

They're fucking nuts. They're seminores. And somebody was like, oh, Seminole, got you. Word. Andrew Jackson becomes president. Now he's taking his Indian hating to the big time. And we all know about the Trail of Tears. I'm taking my talents to South Beach.

That's right. Yeah, that's right. And Andrew Jackson. But we all know what the Trail of Tears and what he did in his own state of Tennessee, but he was doing that elsewhere. He was also trying to move the Seminoles out. Well, they didn't want to fucking leave. Yeah.

And they fought. And one of the leaders at that time was Osceola, who was a young warrior when all this started popping off. And the old warriors were trying to, you know, make peace with the white man. And Osceola saw right through us and was like, fuck that. Let's get some guns and let's fuck these people up. The massacre of Dade is the situation. in which

120, I think it was, American troops, everybody died but three. One died two days later from his wounds, and the only two survived. The Indians lost three fucking people. So we beat him 117. They beat it. See, I became an Indian in that.

See, that's what it was. We just laughed. Osceola was the warrior that led all that. now eventually we know how this story pretty much ends. But it doesn't end in total annihilation and it doesn't

end in then moving the fucking Oklahoma. It ends in a peace agreement eventually and a reservation which of course over time we dwindled away and you know conned them out of and cheated them and took

and then eventually. Won a couple national championships for them though. God damn right. Go Gators. And then eventually. Eventually, drain the song. That part of the song is true and was more close in time. So the elders that John Anderson was meeting with in their lifetime had experienced the draining of their fishing lands and all that so that white people could build condos. So that part of this song, and the reason I said it's also, its references are accurate.

The Okachobee is a river, but it's also a people. so like he's referencing actual tribes and places like he's not just he's not doing that thing half Cherokee and Choctaw which makes no fucking sense historically or geographically like he's actually referencing things within the Seminole nation so he's not doing the thing I do in jokes he knows what he's talking about but what is the point of the song other than I'm just saying like he's doing the thing that I thought you were describing because he's not really taking a huge stand number one number two this is where it gets to you iffy. Hearing the ghost of Osceola cry, I don't know anything about seminal traditions. It is possible that John Anderson research their religions and faiths, and this part of it is accurate. But it sure feels to me that talking to the wind while you sit on a tree stump is the religious version of half Cherokee and Chautau. Right. But I could be wrong.

Yeah. Too sure. If you stand in this swamp and listen real closely to the wind, you will eventually hear an Indian cry. And that's, you know. That's just how Florida works. To be fair, that's our culture. If you're white and you live in North Florida, you know, that's just our religious belief. Everybody believes if you listen to the wind, you'll hear an Indian cry.

Do you think this song was miss listened? Or is there like a bad way to hear this song? Well, no. Do you know what I'm asking? I think so. The only way it was mislistened, in my opinion, is most Southern Americans don't get what we're talking about about why this would ever be

the anti-capitalism band well that part was definitely probably mislisten to but I interpreted what Tushar was saying to mean like somehow against Indians right no like if like a racist person listens to stuff and they listen to it racist and I guess is this in the wrong hands

could be almost like a parody you know but I don't know if it's ever interpreted it that way because it feels like a i'm going to get on my motorcycle and drive cross-country type of music that's what it felt like when i listened to it's like that open free soaring type of thing and of all the songs we've done i think this is the one that i would be most like a man on his own mission type of music so it's like how does that go with like if it's all if it's built for the vibe is modern day this is the worst case but like an in-cell type of person And then you put this music in there.

Are they listening to it with the with the honors? It's written, you know, by what it's written. Well, that's what's wild about so many people I know who have a fucking rebel flag on their garage door. It's like they've also got a picture of an Indian. Right. And they're like, that's my hero. That's what I was going to say, too. It's like, dude, very few.

I know that like Native Americans are obviously, you know, a whole other type of people than white people. but racist white people, at least in the South, they usually don't have no kind of problem with Native Americans. Again, we're still like systemically and institutionally, of course. Racist towards Native Americans, of course. But on an individual basis, your average Southern racist ain't, like Drew said, they probably tell you their part Cherokee or their grandma was Cherokee. And they got all this Cherokee shit in their house or whatever.

I mean, they drank too much, but hell, that ain't their fault. Well, damn. Yeah, I mean, I think that a lot of people genuinely use them as like their example of why they aren't racist. Like, oh, no, what do you mean? Like, hell, look how we treat Native Americans. We're very respectful of their culture. I bet you, though, in, I don't know, just, I'm just going off of how I know white people be. I bet you in places like Oklahoma and whatnot where there's like larger populations and reservations and stuff.

I bet you shitty white people around there. Oh, yeah. can go into graphic detail on what don't hit about Native American. We've heard. They might have been cool back in today, but dude, these days, these days, just lazy. You know, we started giving them those government land handouts. Won't work. Won't a hand out.

Like, it's all the same shit they say about every other. Me and Drew had dinner with wrestling legend. I was going to bring that up. Yeah, well, wrestling legend Jerry Briscoe, whose grandmother was, I don't know. I don't know what tribe, and I'm not even going to pretend. Was it the Cherokee? And he was like, it was a known thing. Like that was his grandmother.

And they literally called him half blood. And that was the reason that he told us that he kind of got into wrestling was because he got in a lot of fights anyways for people making fun of him and making fun of his culture and calling him less than. So he just started whooping everybody's ass, you know, and that's just. So yeah, and he's from Oklahoma. Now, later in that dinner, I had had two edibles and a lot of drinks. And he said, as he's telling stories, as he does, great guy, that he was with John Anderson the day his second kid was born.

And they was fucked up on trucks. Yeah. And he had to try to help John get home. And I said, so was Seminole Wind about you? And he said, I am Seminole Wind. Chills. Chills. It was the funniest thing.

It was right. I said it. And I was like, I'm going to get my nose broke. can't believe I just said that. Right after that, out of context, right after that out of context, he said, I was with Billy Gibbons on 9-11. We won't tell that story, but it was a great fucking dinner. It was awesome. It was, it was. Well, anyway, let's get back to the song. Let's now look at the song through the non-woke lens. Let's look at it. I guess first of all, let's talk about the capitalistic themes here. I do think that in country music, there's a Linnit Skinner, song that is more of a country song in my opinion called write it in a song that has a similar theme in country there's always this theme of getting back to basics country boy can survive there's always been a little bit of a anti-development aspect of country music even though the politics of the genre now are dominated by right-wing things but it's a

in there, I mean, and it's pretty overt. They dig for silver and for gold and they leave the empty holes. I mean, there's not a stronger metaphor for money and capital than digging for silver and gold, in my opinion. I mean, the only way to look at it's environmental.

You know, like, there's only two ways you can go with that metaphor, and both of them are pretty, you know, lefty. I don't know. I find that interesting. Yeah, I mean, like I said, I just always to me this song was always about

there was this beautiful land and proud people it got fucked up I'm mourning that that happened and and this part I might be wrong about all this but this part I might be reaching in particular and it's like and the the wind that blows

over it is still the same as it was then so like the wind is still like the wind is all that's left and if you sit and you listen to the wind you can hear the soul of the land or whatever and that's like the general that's generally what the song is about to me in my mind you know and it is sad i think yeah and getting back to that second verse uh which backs you up about the draining of the swamp um which obviously has

its own political connotations now but there's been a movement on and off for the whole latter part of the 19th century to drain the aberclades um because they didn't understand the geography and what they were doing back then. So the way it works is in the dry season, Lake Okeechobee becomes a river as it exceeds, I'm sorry, in the wet season, it exceeds its capacity and it becomes a river.

And at the time, people were like, hey, you know, we can't live like this, whatever, whatever, but that's the 18th century.

Like really, what are they going to do? They built some drains, but the swamp won. Do people, people moving into a swamp and being like, it's too goddamn wet around here. What are the first?

We're going to have. do something about it. Doesn't this place realize we can't live here with it being this wet? Your point would be hilarious. It's almost rude. Yeah. This place is rude, man. Your point would be very funny in the 1800s, which is what we're talking about right now. This continues on, though. So in the 1800s, you show up on a wagon, well, what the fuck else you're going to do? I spent all my goddamn wood nickels getting down here, you know, we got to dig a trench or whatever. But like, it was going on in the 60s. It's going on in the 70s. It's going on in the 70s. But now you've got developer interests, lobbying interests, and money behind it.

And you've got, you know, a group of natives who aren't as scary anymore. Well, you know, for lack of a better way to say it, it's like, yeah, they're not. Come on, what are they going to do? You know, scalp us, fuck them. They got Facebook accounts. They're fine. Yeah, exactly. So it's been going on a while.

And like I said, so that's why this song is, you know, it's about the 1800s in Osceola. it's also about what's happening, you know, when he writes it. It's sort of a political song, which is also wild. I think you could get away with that in 90s country if it's about one region, a group of people who aren't black, and there's no Facebook at the time for someone to like turn it into your comic. Yeah, I mean, I agree because like when you're really hearing it and breaking down the lyrics, like it, like the whole idea of this song goes completely against

the Trump supporters whole mentality and that whole thing. They're all about, fuck it, put a condo up. It's all about profit. You know?

It's probably literally a Trump Tower near Disney World right exactly where we're talking about. I'm certain. But see, I mean, you know,

we've pointed it out before on our other podcast. We've talked about how like it doesn't make sense that most of these people aren't more pro environment and shit because of like

hunting. Songs like this. This used to be, this wasn't at all controversial. I don't think. No. when it came out, people are like, yeah, you know, land or hit. Dude, people like, this gets played.

If you go down to the county line bar down here on any given Saturday night when there's, you know, two white dudes and two acoustic guitars playing cover songs, like this song comes up, you know what I mean? And everybody in the room has a reverence for it. And then turn right around and are like, you know, we got a fucking old Bitcoin, whatever. You know, like, it's crazy. Like, it's like Paul Ryan with this goddamn rage against the machine and says, like, do you really know what the machine is there, pal?

Right. What really the tipping point was in 1969 that really got it going with like what we've considered at that time, modern technology, which has allowed them to successfully sort of drain or canal the swamp, was an airport of all places. Fucking airport. I thought that was interesting when I was reading that. I just wanted to bring that up. That's what took them over.

over the top. They needed another airport. These fucking people flying down from New York needed more places to land. They're fucking airplanes. Well, anyway, now let's also look at the song. We did it that way. I want to look at it just as a song for a minute. I love the chorus.

It is like a chant. Blow, blow. Like I dig that. It gets rhythm, too shard, half joking. started doing the chop earlier. It may have been on her. Well, I think he was trying to point out that the song was attempting

to sound like what white people think Indian music is or whatever. That might be true, but it's effective. That chorus is an earworm. The rhythmic of it is good. And I really like the lyrics. I do. It could be, it could make a stronger argument

for what he's getting at here, but this was not to. And he was at that time a kind of forgotten about not really superstar, just like, you know, pretty good singer. So, you know, I really like the lyrics. It's just as far as a song goes. Do you guys have any thoughts on that? Also, he's singing the hell out of it. John Anderson, John Anderson, he's in, you know, like Tracy Lawrence has one of these two,

these dudes that like they've got a voice that itself almost sounds like an interesting. like it's got a very harmonica quality to it you know what I mean when John Anderson sings it almost sounds like his voice is doing harmony with itself you know what I'm saying like it's it's it's real stringy I just really really enjoy it he sings a hell out of this damn song it's like gravelly thing and you want to talk about something we've referenced before North Florida being Southern he's from North Florida and he's other one of his other songs swinging I mean the name of it is swinging and it's swangin just as swan yeah

Is that 90s? I don't think so. I think it's earlier, I feel like. I'm not sure it's like late 70s. I think, yeah, musically, I think it's like one of those songs that sounds exactly the way it should sound, if that makes sense, like it fits the subject matter.

It's like it's almost like haunting. It's like the song could be carried upon the wind. Yes, I mean, like if that makes sense. It does. That's why I like the music video, even if it's like drawing on inappropriate stereotypes. Well, it's one of the best to ever do it, God damn it. Yeah.

This is the dances with wolves of country songs. Again, well, especially when you compare it all to, you know, Indian outlaw. Yeah. Like, it's a whole different ballgame. Well, the closest comparison is the song Indian Outlaw sampled, which is called Cherokee people, which is the same sort of, we're honoring them, but it's like, you guys are just a bunch of fucking hippies. So funny, Tim McGrawl took that.

He's like, I know how to make this hit. You got, you hippies get close. Eating corn in my teepee. He's fucking, uh, eating curry with my pap on. I got Indian in laws. Uh, uh, uh,

because of what we, oh, man, Wutang probably got some shit about like, uh, Japanese culture or something that. Yeah. They're celebrating, you know,

uh, something like that, I guess. A little bit of, We're going to go with all of Wu-Tang. I was going to say, because of everything we talked about earlier, I'm kind of, am I forgetting some? I'm kind of surprised there aren't more. I would think this would be a whole subgenre of country.

That's what I'm saying. I agree. In country, you know, fucking chock tall country or whatever you want to cut. Because of the fascination that our people have with and everything and both these songs being huge hits, you would expect there to be a bunch more of these, in my opinion. Surely there were some other failed ones and stuff. I can't think of any. Also, it's called country and western music and western movies.

You know, Indians are in 85 to 90% of it. Right. Yeah, I never really thought about that. But, yeah. Were there any other breakout American Indian country? Clay, I'm sure there's about 15 or 18, you know, country music artists who tell you, he's like, yeah, my, my mom, my chief Cherokee. He's like, he's like 100%.

I mean, Tim McGraw. He's not 100%, but Clay, Walker. Is it Aiken? Or is he the one that's on American Idol? He's an American Idol? Yeah. He was.

He's running for governor. He's the one that saying's, um. Clay Walker? Maybe. Let me look up Clay Walker. Let me see his face. Yeah, I'm 99% sure Clay Walker is like,

you know, part. Like significant. We're, may have made that up. He may have made that up. I didn't. He may have made that. I think we need to look at the rap equivalent, though, a little bit differently. Like, there's definitely rap songs about the white man coming in and gentrifying the hood,

which that's kind of the theme here, right? Am I wrong? That's a good point. Yeah, but it would have a bunch. But this song is a white dude singing it. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, there's no. So, MacLamore?

Yeah. There you go. Trif, I mean, Eminem when he raps about stealing black music and stuff, in some of his, you know, like, that's the thing that happened. You know what I'm talking about. I do. I do. I'm just trying to, if I'm thinking of one song or, like, get it in my head.

Oh, shit. Apparently Marty Robbins has got a significant amount of, I'm going to not say this word right. P-A-I-U-T-E, P-U-T-E, P-U-T-E, P-U-T. Piute, sure Marty Robbins is part Payute There you go Yeah, I don't know

Well, you guys want to A scribe a rating to this song by the white man About the natives flat Yes I'll go first I'll give it a 2.6666

A third off Yeah For the white devil A third off for the American Genocide of the American Indians. That's fair. But that's it. Other than that, perfect.

It's unfair. You're holding that against John Anderson. That's fair. I'm still going to go three. I'm not three out of three Earnhardt's. Just, you know, song hits. What you want me say? I was on the fence. I wanted to come in. At first I was like, man, this is one of my favorite songs. It's got to be three. And then I was like, I just think of it objectively, Corey. And you come in here with the whole like, hey, it's actually all.

also historically accurate. And I think with all that in mind, and especially with the anti-capitalist band that's very rare in country music, I got to give this a three out of three earn hearts. Tushar, are you feeling good about your rating? Or do you want to take it back on an Indian giver? J-K! Oh! That one has got to be one of the most offensive stereotypes because the people who gave

and took away was us. Yeah, it makes no sense. Yes. That's an Indian receiver. It should be White Taker instead of Indian dinner. The phrase should be. All right, somebody mute him. Two short's cutting out.

I don't know if we're having problems. I can't hear you very well. I'm just fucking worried. Silence him. White taker. White taker. Well, not to go too far off the reservation here. God damn it.

I've been going back and forth between a two and two-thirds. I've got to go with three. And what puts it over the top for me is the metal. this is a beautiful song. This is a truly beautiful song. I am a little uncomfortable that three white dudes said this is a perfect song. Hey, what are you going to do? And the raw kind of Indian was like,

eh, 2.6, 6, 6. 6. I would like to hear the Trans-Siberian Orchestra play this motherfucker. It is, it's beautiful. I would also like to hear more about what went down as far as, the conversation between he and the elders. If he just paid him for it, like if he showed it to him and they were like,

I'm 50-50, and he was like, and here's a pile of money, then I'm going 2.66. But if it was good enough for them on its face, I got to go three. That's my, that's my weak.

I'm afraid to have an opinion, white guy, caveat. Yeah. It's probably a gift of blankets. I'm interested to, I want to read more about how, where,

how this John Anderson votes. goddammit. I want to see if he's backing it up in the 90s. You know what I mean? Don't tell me. Yeah, I won't. If you don't hear, you'll know. Well, I appreciate y'all.

Skew. Skew. Mere moments after finishing recording this episode of Bubba Shot the podcast, the world-renowned and very award-winning podcast about 90s country music and nostalgia. Andy got home from running some errands and was telling me a story about

a Facebook fight she's in. This is a favorite pastime of hers to fight on Facebook and then tell me about it. But to save them some time, and I'll let you chime in at the end with your info, a lady was saying an N-word and calling black people

monkeys and wild shit. Andy and her niece, Jesse, were fighting with her about it. Then people started defending that lady saying she's not a horrible person and don't jump on her. That led to a lot of back and forth. And at some point, Mandy said the sentence Yes, apathy

Is the easy road for white people? And the lady says So she responds to me And says, not the one that was saying the initial racist thing. It doesn't matter. That doesn't matter. Okay, okay. Anyway, she responds to me and she says, by the way you're assuming I'm white, just by looking at the color of my skin, you cannot tell.

I'm actually considered a minority. Enough so to qualify for free government funding. had I went to college. My great-grandfather was a Seminole Indian born in the Florida Everglades and a very famous one at that. So, see, you can't assume one is racist based off the color of their skin, nor can you assume they are white just because they look that way. I am more Indian than any other nationality are race. So blow, blow, seminole. wind.

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