wellRED podcast - Does Alex McDaniel Know Who Killed College Football?

Episode Date: December 4, 2024

With Trae on the road, I decided to bring in one of my favorite people, sports writer extraordinaire Alex McDaniel!   Yes, we talk college football, BUT before you non sports fans sheew it away immediately, it is more a conversation about corporate greed and doing the right thing for the kids! In my opinion this was one of the most interesting and informative podcasts we have done in a while, and that certainly wasn't because of me and Drew!   Alex was also the lead researcher on the new hit podcast Who Killed College Football? so be sure to check that out wherever you get yours! Come see us in Nashville dec 12-14.... tickets at TraeCrowder.com Go see Drew by going to DrewMorganComedy.com WeLoveCorey.com is where you can find Bonus stuff from The CHO, including a new hour of comedy AND his old special all in one place! Also getcha some Merch at CoreyShirts.com Or book a cameo for the holiday season at Cameo.com/CoreyRyanForrester     Stop suffering in regular pants and give the gift of comfort this Holiday Season! For a limited time only, our listeners get 20% off when you use code  [WELLRED]  at checkout.  That’s 20% off with the code [WELLRED] at PublicRec.com. After you purchase, they’ll ask you where you heard about them.  PLEASE support our show and tell them we sent you. Say goodbye to pants that put up a fight—because when comfort meets style, you’ve found Public Rec.  

And we thank them for sponsoring the show. Well, no, I'll just go ahead. I mean, look, I'm money dumb. Y'all know that. I've been money dumb ever, since ever, my whole life. And the modern world makes it even harder to not be money dumb, in my opinion, because used to, you, like, had to write down everything you spent or you wouldn't know nothing. But now you got apps and stuff on your phone.

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That's W-E-L-L-R-E-D at checkout. That's 20% off with the code well-read at publicwreck.com. After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them and, you know, let them know it was your boys. Please support our show and tell them that we sent you. Say goodbye. to pants that put up a fight because when comfort meets style, you've found public wreck. They're the liberal rednecks they like cornbread, but sex they care way too much, but don't give a fun.

They're the liberal rednecks that makes some people upset, but they got three big old dicks that you can suck. Biggins. Big Dix. You can suck them. You sure can. Drew, we're about to be in Nashville, December 12th through the 14th. You can come to Nashville and suck our dicks. Yeah, I just noticed. I don't listen to comedy, actually, too.

Yeah, right. I mean, you know, whatever you want to do, we're very open-minded people. I know that the early Saturday show is sold out. The late Saturday show is getting close. And so that means it's going to be. be how it always is packed to the gills. So grab them tickets and tradecrouter.com. Yeah, baby.

Yeah, the Friday early is almost sold out. I talked to Fowland. And also, oh, for those of you to do or do not pay attention, this is the only show we do together a year now. Yeah. So fly in, Cowards. And there are people flying in. I've had many people on Blue Sky or Twitter or whatever say,

just got my plane ticket. Because, yeah, like, even if you're not in Nashville. not be flying in from Jacksonville or St. Augustine, Florida. Is that where you're going to be? No, that's where I was at, and only like 20 people came. So if you wouldn't drive from Jacksonville to St. Augustine, but you'll fly to Nashville just because it's three of us, because that's more than triple the distance.

For sure. For sure. Where were you at in St. Augustine in Jacksonville? Did you do the zone? No, I was just in St. Augustine, which is just south of Jacksonville. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So that's what I was saying.

It was like, like I get, if you're in Jacksonville and you're like, St. Augustine's kind of too far. But if you're in Jacksonville and you're like St. Augustine's too far and you're flying to Nashville, I don't actually tell me that. Now, if you flew from somewhere else to tell me that. Still do it, but just don't tell Drew. Like absolutely still do it. By the way, just so everybody knows here shortly, well, as you can tell, we are trayless, aka Gayless, am I right?

but here in a few we will be joined by our good friend, friend of the show, sports writer extraordinaire Alex McDaniel. I'm very pumped about that. But yeah, do got some business up top. Come see us in Nashville. I got Nashville, December the 20th. So that's the weekend after Nashville, Asheville, December 20th.

It's a show that was rescheduled, as some of you may recall, the Friday after the flood, the flood in Asheville, I was supposed to play Asheville. Promoter said, let's do it in December. I was like, I don't, sure, you know, let's do it in December. Hey, Asheville and she are ready. They've got water. They've got bathrooms in the place we're doing it, Kataba Brewing.

So let's do it. Hell yeah. Also, naturally, I don't have the date in front of me. but after our Zany shows, I will be doing another home for the holiday show at the Comedy Catch in Chattanooga, my old stomp. Are you doing it? No,

but I turned it down? Yeah. Well, I'll put that link in there, but yeah, come see me. It's going to be fun. You'll get the stuff that, no,

I hear you. I mean, dude, it's in my backyard. You know what I'm saying? You'll get the stuff that I've perfected in now. Nashville just did a dry run of the new set in Johnson City did a don't tell.

I appreciate everybody that came out to that, even though like it's not like you knew it was me because you don't tell. I have one review on that for folks wondering. One comic said, hey, I met your buddy Corey. He did the show in Johnson City. I was like, oh, how'd the show go? And he goes, man, that guy so funny for like 20 minutes. And then he just kept going.

And I was like, yeah, he was working stuff out. And he's like, yeah, no, I could tell. He's really, really good at comedy. He kept bringing them back. But I was like, damn, this dude's tight. These are great jokes. And then I was like, oh, he's just, he's just jazzing up there. I was jazzed.

I was jazzed. That guy was like, I can't jazz. Yeah, I actually went back and I knew, and I went into it knowing I was going to, whoa, hold on. Now we can stop talking about how much I suck. because Alex McDaniel is here but I will finish that thought I was jazzing I intentionally jazzed

but I went back and watched the set and I was like that was some goddamn good jazzing son you jazzed your ass off yeah I mean I was trying to hit what he really said was basically what he was saying was I was watching this dude

and I was blown away for 20 minutes and then after that I was like oh he's he's pretty good and then I realized oh he's this part he's just making it up yeah I was I improv four

minutes just trying to figure stuff out and it worked it's almost like a catch 22 Alex there's one more point and then we'll bring yeah yeah yeah what if we just did this the whole show like for the next 30 minutes like Jimmy Kimmel does to Matt Damon I think say Matt Damon on Kimmel uh it's almost like if you improv too well where it's not obviously improv then you don't get the credit right like if you're gonna improv and be great at it you need to like comment on the room yeah not like just because if you're just riffing joke there's times where to be like, I just made that up. Like you guys thought that was a seven, but I just made that up.

By the time I get done with that, anyway, speaking of, I was going to say it'll be a 10, speaking of 10s, what's up, Alex? Speaking of making shit up, how are you all? Yeah. Hey, we're good. And by the way, we were just doing our plugs, but your plug actually leads us into a lot of what I want to talk to you about on the show. So before we get started, Alex, please tell the well-read skeuniverse.

about what your newest project, what you got going on, and all that good stuff, because it's very exciting. I'm pumped about it. Yeah, so first of all, thank you for having me on. I appreciate it. Hold on, I'm going to say goodbye to my boyfriend. We have to have one woman a year on the show. Ooh, I got that coat right there. He's the actual sports expert, by the way.

So he's actually still actively working in it. But yeah, so I stepped away from full-time sports. months ago. But one thing that I've been working on lately with Stephen Godfrey and Ryan Nanny, who are two of the best college football reporters in the country, is a podcast called Who Killed College Football? And I was actually the researcher for them on that. So it's a great narrative podcast that breaks down different aspects of kind of how did we get here? Because it's really easy to say, oh, it's ESPN's fault. Oh, it's the NCAA's fault. But actually, it's kind of a lot of people's fault.

It's not all blame black people. And the idea of, oh, if we just fix this one thing, we could fix college football, we'll know. And it took decades to get to where we are now in terms of the playoff and the amount of money. We're looking at NIL and everything else. So I help them with the research on that, but they're doing a great job over there. Highly recommend it. It's a good listen. Well, without giving away, you know, all of the podcasts or whatever, I know you did the research.

So a lot of the stuff might not be your complete opinion. It's just factually based. like, who do you think killed, you know, we know Donald Trump killed the USFL. Who do you think killed college football? Was it Sabin? Did he just make it too good for too long? I would love to blame him for another thing. It would be great, right?

It would be wonderful if we could just blame one thing. But I think whenever we look at what college football is today, we have to look at the role of television. And that's kind of the main through line that we see since the 50s, starting when the NCAA came up with their television plan, which was, you know, each team were allowed to be on TV, you know, twice a year or something. And they tried to create all the rules around that. And they thought they'd be able to control it. They thought, well, as long as it's under our purview, but then, you know, thanks to universities of Oklahoma and Georgia, as we saw decades later, you realize that this is capitalism, baby, and you can't stop these teams from going out and getting their own contracts. And once the

NCAA lost control over that and we saw them find other ways to exercise their control and we see the introduction of ESPN in the 80s and we see how they transform cable television obviously forever. We see the NFL come in. We see so many things that were so fundamentally broken in the beginning get totally out of control to where you can't, you know, you can't put it back in the box at this point. It's a complex answer, I will say, and not just one thing. can I be a bag of hot air for just a second and I'm going to tell you guys why I need to do it and Corey you'll agree with me So fans out there listening who are like well you have me with a woman, but you're losing me with college football I did this old purpose that there's a lot of people listening who I just don't give it they like we get sometimes Alex we get messages like you guys talked about the Titans the whole time

What the fuck This is actually a microcosm and I'm sure the book touches on this either directly or indirectly and you've already brought it up with a lot of issues in America when it comes to media capitalism that's sort of the umbrella right if you lean left at all you cannot justify the way the NCAA made so much money without it was literally illegal for them to pay their best employees their most valuable yeah so you don't you don't have to be a communist to be against that if you just sort of seek fairness in the marketplace but you're still a capitalist you look at that and you go all right well that's not fair now they're getting paid

But undeniably, it's changing everything, and it's changing a lot of the things people love about it. So this is my attempt to get people to stay on board the mechanisms of college football, both now and in the last, since the 90s at least, really are, again, a microcosm of kind of what's going on in a lot of places. It's definitely what's going on in comedy. I think when you look at the Drake lawsuit, if you get past the headline of him suing Kendrick Lamar and you get down to the nitty-gritty, What? He's suing Kendrick? What? He's suing Kendrick for what?

He's actually suing. He's suing the company that they both work for for a variety of things as it relates to payola schemes and artists not getting enough money. But as part of it, he's saying you pushed they not like us. You inflated its numbers. And you did that to prop him up because he had an album coming out. By the way, probably true. And it's happened to Drake and Taylor's. A million times.

A million times. But in doing that, you hurt me, and you had a fiduciary duty. You had a contractual duty not to hurt me. So it's actually a very interesting lawsuit. But it's weird to think about Drake doing it because it's going to hurt him on the streets. Even if he wins. Right. He's a bitch.

But I don't want to get too far afield. I'll throw it back to you, Alex. I just wanted people to understand it. Like, you don't have to care about football to care about topics like this. I mean, it's interesting. You said, I don't really work. working sports anymore. And yet now we're talking about a project. I know. Well, it's one of those things that I, when I got into journalism a million years ago, I grew up in Ole Miss.

You're 24. Shut up. Yeah, 24 plus a few. I was a news journalist and a lifestyle journalist. And my dream job, well, still my dream job was just like write about Southern food and Southern cultural all day. I would love to just make that my living. Be like the Martha Stewart of tailgating, but I digress. You see while we're friends. So I really stumbled into it. So I was never really like a hardcore sports reporter, but I was always interested in the history of it. And especially when we look at college football,

we look at how much money they have made on the backs of players that never saw dime of it and told them, you're lucky to be here. You're lucky to go to school. We're giving you an education. You get that dining hall, food. You get a dorm. And yet we have people in college,

which I really a totally different scale. But just the idea of paying the players was for so long considered, like, oh, they're so ungrateful to want it. I had a job on campus that I got paid for. It wasn't as big of a deal as Eli Manning vio on campus, but like I worked for the student newspaper, therefore I got paid to check. Eli Manning was worth more to the school than you were. Yeah, a lot more.

And they still cut me a check, you know, a job is a job. Right. But by. Well, that's on that note with Eli, it's like you've got to be a capitalist about it and recognize these people are bringing in money. If you lose them, you're losing that money. Or you've got to be. be whatever you want to call it a socialist or comments about it and go we got to pay the means

and then we see you know and it's particularly at my alma mater um the university of Mississippi you see these big recruiting scandals and kind of like you brought up I mean I there were a lot of allegations and violations that my alma mater committed uh what was that back in 2016 no I guess it was a little earlier than that I have no sense of time anymore and it was stuff like whenever line kiff and showed up long before that when we were in the Hugh freeze era really did it and there it's not to say that schools shouldn't be shouldn't be punished for violations what it truly is like cutting out other schools or you you agree to the rules stand by them but to see a whole program go down in flames over things like oh it slept on a coach's couch or they made in breakfast or something like that

we're not talking um which there were some major violations in that too. but that's kind of what I meant to my point earlier, and I know I'm all over the place. When the NCAA lost their control over the television contracts, you really saw them hype up their, you know, recruiting allegations department, for lack of a better word, man, I'm out of it today. My dad.

Well, yeah, they were going after other people, right? Well, yeah, and they went after really, really tiny things and treated it like the most important thing in the world, but would keep their mouth shut over, you know, actually like very serious issues like Baylor and everything else. Oh, we can't, you know, we can't comment on that. But you, you know, you paid a player or you took a high school kid to a game once and you're technically a booster. So we're going to shut you down for two years. Right. Like my dad. Go ahead. I was going to say, I'll be blunt where you can't because I'm a

comic and not a journalist who has a reputation of a poll. You can rape, but you can't have a fucking cookout at your house because some punk who goes to Ohio State will tell on you and now Bruce Pearls at Auburn and even though we got Rick Barnes I'm still fucking mad about it. But you can rape. You absolutely can't get caught and you can't do it on a big scale and you have to be good. And that's

unconscionable. Right. And my, so my dad is a pretty big, he's like a Reagan Republican, now Trump Republican unfortunately, but that's all beside the point. He's also He's an onion.

This man contains layers. He's also one of the few older men Republicans that I know in this area who is like not only for NIL, but like has been bringing it up before it was even like an issue that was on the table. Like dad always felt horrible about that. And I remember, like I've not seen my dad move to tears a lot in my life unless we ran out of Christmas tree cakes. But there was this story back several, several years ago, where a coach and a kid got in trouble because this kid comes to Michigan and the kid, I think the kid's from Florida or something. He gets recruited out of Florida and he goes to Michigan.

You know, as the story goes with a lot, a lot of college athletes didn't come from a good home life. I don't know about abuse or anything like that, but no money, right? So he comes up to Michigan, he doesn't have a coat. He doesn't have a good coat. He's not prepared for how cold it is in Michigan. The coach bought him a coat and got in trouble for that. And my dad was like moved to tears talking about how like they're literally punishing people for doing the right thing. Like that's the right thing.

That coach should have done that. He would be an asshole if he didn't because he's making $20 million a year or whatever. And so, you know, the fact that anybody would have a problem with NIL is crazy. Now, I know it's changing the game. And it's easy for me to say, well, whatever, because Georgia, we got two in right before it changed completely. You know what I mean? We got two in right at the buzzer. But like, Alex, I feel like that was irrelevant.

I think it was. You think he just like. Yeah, I know. It was like he had that written down. Make sure you bring this up. I think it's relevant. I think it's relevant. I think it's relevant because, like, you know, we're not.

going to, I don't think we're going to see dynasties like Alabama anymore, ever. And I don't, I think there's going to be a lot of college. There's a lot of people that get mad about it because like, you know, your depth chart is screwed. Like, like, think about it. Dude, if NIL and the transfer portal was a thing five, six years ago, too, too, too, it wouldn't have been backing up Jalen Hertz, which coincidentally means maybe Georgia

wins that SEC championship. You know what I mean? So like that now, too. Dude, you think I'll write. anything to I got a blank pad here where I write down things later. I was going to say if anything was

written down there we'd just say transgender, transfer, coincidence. That's why all these right wingers are against it. Yeah, but you know what I'm saying?

Like, I don't know what the solution is, but I can tell you this, it's not stop paying the kids money because the same people that get pissed about that are also the people who were like, if you work hard,

you should be compensated for it. Yeah. And like when I, when I was, you know, 2006 when I'm in Athens, Georgia at the at the bookstore, I didn't buy the number seven jersey because I liked the number seven. I bought it because it was Matthew Stafford's jersey. He deserves that money. You know what I mean? So end of Georgia jerking off.

But tell me more about Georgia. I love them. No. We don't hit though. I mean, it always, the conversations that I feel have happened a lot more in recent years is kind of like, we're not opposed to them making money. We just don't want to make in too much money. You know what I mean? Because if you give a kid a million dollars, he doesn't have anything to play for. That's always, you know.

Yes, he does. Two million dollars. It's like, there are other things to do. And then you get people coming, well, are they giving them financial literacy classes? And it's like, if you're concerned about that, you should be concerned about that for everybody in this country. Right.

But, you know, we also see, too. I mean, my alma mater paid 15 million. They don't want them to be financially literate. They want them to give it all back as soon as they get it. Anyways, your alma mater, what? I'm sorry. The whole idea of like, oh, well, you're just, you're paying for your teams. You're just paying for wins now.

All the Magic has gone. My alma mater paid $15 million for its roster this year. And I think to call it a bubble team at this point is even generous because we know, even though Ole Miss and Alabama are pretty much on the same footing with their losses, Alabama's going to get in over them. So it's not as simple as, oh, the magic is gone because you'll just, pay a bunch of money well a lot of schools are paying a bunch of money and not getting results there's still a lot of new ones it was happening right it was happening like you know the the the best and saddest 30 for 30

uh the best that never was you know i can't remember his name unfortunately off the top of my head but like hilarious that i know uh i just ironic is what i mean like yeah very ironic uh uh but anyways uh played at uh Oklahoma but anyways like Marcus too free there you go uh, uh, uh, he I was I literally was about to say Jermaine Dupree and I don't know if it's like like I know they all look alike as racist but do they they all sound alike is racist too I don't know I was like I don't think that's it depends on I mean their French last name or yeah yeah right people who have no idea what's going on anyways Corey just he was used producer rapper Jermaine Dupree with Oklahoma wide receiver running back running back Mark Marcus Marcus Marcus Dupress Perry. Anyways, my point is, is like, they've been getting paid forever. Like, they've been getting paid forever. This

actually works out better for the NCAA and the teams, because back in the day, in order to convince a kid to come and pay him, you had to give him the money, but now it's like they just get to earn their own money, so it's less coming out of your pocket. And I just don't

understand. I mean, this is the Olympic model, right? It's the most, I guess fair meritocracy way that you could do something. It's like none of this, like any papal that's mad about it, it's like your taxes don't go to this guy. It's just that the local subway gave him 100 grand to come do a signing. You know what I'm saying? Like who gives a shit?

And these kids have to capitalize on what they have now. I mean, even at peak performance, we know a very small number of college football players move on in the NFL. But for me, you know, I'm a very small. Mississippi and always in forever. And I just always go back to the Mississippi Delta. If you've really spent time in the Mississippi Delta, and I don't just mean like, you know,

the Morgan Freeman parts. Yeah, I mean, really go to these places and see where these kids are coming from. And they're one shot, not for themselves, but for their families. They're shot at everything, is to go to college and be good enough to make it to the NFL. Most of them are not going to do it. and but if they can go and if they can be good enough in college to make enough money to pay their mother's light bill like um laramie tonsill did or or anything else that's what they're banking on is just how do we get to the next step how do i get my mom out of the delta how do i get how do we stop this cycle and if they can do it in college and then they graduate get a business grade go on do whatever that's fine why wouldn't you support that why wouldn't you want them to have it's it's it's literally the american dream that they say that they love so we are, I think, past this discussion in terms of you let the cat out of the bag, plus I think the Supreme Court of the United States.

I know it went pretty high. Basically it was like, these kids sued and they were like, we should be able to make money off our name, image likeness, this isn't American. And we're at a point now where there's nothing NCAA can do about it, short of just dissolving and then we have some new thing replace it. So I guess that is my question. What's next? I mean, we can continue this debate, but I think it's over regardless of how anyone.

feels about it. Now it's a matter of what gets put in place. Will the NCAA have a role in that, in your opinion? And if so, what will it be? You know, to be perfectly honest, I don't know. I don't know what the next step is. I mean, I think when we look at NIA in general, pull something out of your ass. That's what we do on this show. We're still missing the bigger point, which is, hey, all the money that is being made off of these guys, that money isn't going back to them. We're putting it on fans now, we're putting it on alumni, we're putting it on businesses, there's still a ton of money being made that isn't going back to them. And it's wild how whoever's getting that money just keeps winning. Right. Yeah, yeah. They just keep winning. Yeah. I think, you know, I'm certainly not enough

of an expert, especially this year. I was telling Corey yesterday. I've never been more detached from a college bowl season, probably in my life until this year. But, you know, it's hard to say. It is kind of the Wild West right now. We're in more ways than one and we're just looking at how the sport is changing. And people have different opinions on what they value about it. Some people say, oh, I could never be an NFL fan because I don't want to see a bunch of rich guys playing for nothing because they consider it playing for nothing. You have people inside who would get it. You know, college football is so tied to nostalgia, as we know, and particularly in the South when it's so tied into so much of that region's history for better or worse. And so, yeah, what's a,

What's the issue with that, Alex? What's the problem with the talent? What did you say the name of your school was? You said it differently than most people say it. The University of Mississippi. Interesting, because I've always heard two syllables. Sorry, go ahead. I do want to get into that.

We can get into that, actually. I'd love to. I was just talking about the other day. But, yeah, I think, didn't you have some people who claim, like, oh, you know, Mississippi was so great in the 50s. It was so great, like, right before the early 60s. I wish we could go back to, like, right. on, you know, and it's like, what do you actually miss? Because I realize that was last time they were national champions, debatable in many ways.

But, dude, isn't that, isn't that like Bear Bryant's legacy? Yeah. Isn't that like what he did that like actually made him over the top was that he was like, no, we got an interview. Have you seen how bad they are? That whole, yeah, that whole, that whole era was rife with that. Tim Wilson used to have a bit where he was telling about hate, hating Steve Spurrier. He's like, it looks like a lesbian and a vice.

and he goes, yeah, he won a Heisman when all the black guys were in Vietnam. Oh, my God. I mean, it's, you could write a book on that alone, honestly, and just this idea of what college football used to be in the South. So, yeah, you see a lot of DeSalje, and then you see just whatever people attach to this sport, whether it's their family memories, their own personal ties, this idea of sports and identity that we know. I mean, the fact that the SEC in particular has been so dominant for so long, for Southerners, that's a big win personally. They get to say, I'm from the South. We have the SEC. Even people who don't care about football are like, SEC, baby.

For us to be the best at something in college? Yes. It's a huge thing. And it is kind of a balm for a lot of just personal anger that a lot of people have and resentment. tort. Why do people shit on the South so much? Well, you got a day or two. Let's talk about it. Well, that's it. I'm glad you brought that up as it being a bomb or whatever, because one thing that I, like, first off, let me say this. If you're not a sports fan, I don't judge you by that. That's fine. I get it. Like, there's certain things I'm not into. But what I can't stand is the like anti-sports fan.

I call them the sports ball people. We're like, oh, you watch the sports ball or whatever. And they see absolutely no intrinsic value in it whatsoever. And I'm like, man, you know, if for nothing else, what sports, especially college football, is for me, at least in the last eight years, is a guarantee that if I'm at a party with people that I disagree with politically, I know how to get out of all that. And for this, these 15 weeks or whatever, it ain't about that because the game's on and you're a fan of this and you're a fan of that. And it's a bridge. It's a bridge for some people. Like it's a bridge for me and my dad.

You know, we don't get along on a lot of things. But like, you know, football, the movie Tombstone, Banana Pudding, these are bridges that I can always be like, you know, Shiv, shimmy, you know, the week, like the Trump's weave, like bring it back in. And, like, I just think that the people that run sports are horrible. Like, the people that run most anything are horrible. But, like, I just can't ever get behind the notion that sports in general or are a bad thing or you liking sports a lot is a bad thing, you know? Yeah. And I think it's such a huge part of, you see a lot more people who are willing to be openly casual fans of college football. What I mean by that is particularly as a woman, you know,

the old thing, if you're a woman in a bar watching a game, inevitably a man will come up to you and quiz you on the 72 roster of that team. Like if you're a real fan, you know how to do that. That's real shit, though. And if it's not just for women, there's this idea, it's not just a boys club issue. There's this idea in sports that if you claim to be a fan of something, you have to earn that spot by knowing a bunch of stuff or by, you know,

you have to be a fan for so many years. You have to be born into it. It's a lot of gatekeeping in what we do. And I think when you look at the identity part of college football and why people are so rabid about it, there are a lot of people who they don't even go to the games. They don't pay attention to what's going on. But they love wearing their shirt and they love saying, you know, I'm a Georgia fan, I'm a Tennessee fan, whatever. They're awfully mean to me at airports.

So. Yeah. Well, that's the great thing about college. The one thing that college football, I mean, there's a couple things. But like, I like watch more NFL football than I do. college football, like just physically watch. Like, when it comes to college football, I usually just watch my team and whatever the big game is, unless there's like a party or whatever.

NFL, I watch every single game without fail. But the thing that college football has on almost everybody is that, number one, I'm very aware that there are women who like football. We're sitting here talking to one right now. But there's a lot of women who don't like football, but you can see. sell them on college football because it's not just about the football. It's about the sausage dip. It's about hanging out and playing cornhole and having the TV outside.

You know what I mean? Like it's an event. It's a culture within itself and the NFL doesn't, you know, really have that. Go ahead, Drew. I'm sorry. I was just going to say to piggyback on that, my mother-in-law likes UT football just because it's the only time her whole family will get together voluntarily. Yeah, that's beautiful.

We're always here for the holidays. I'm in her house right now. I don't want it to like, it's like people don't like each other or anything like that. It's just that has to be planned out. Yeah. But just like on Saturdays in the fall, and it's not at her house because her two sons are very into football

and they've got big screens, speakers, they're making the dip. She don't have to clean up. She's smoking of pork shoulder all day. So she gets to be with her, now she can't talk and she don't like that. And, you know,

she pulls one or two. people at a time aside into the side room to play darts or whatever it is. Yeah. Yeah. But like she loves football season. It's beautiful. Even though she hates football, especially on Sundays when it's not what you just said. Exactly. It's just her husband not listening to her and everyone else not being at her house. So anyway, you're you're right. It's it's culture. For better or for worse, it's culture. Dude, on Saturday, Amber is glued to the TV watching football. And my wife watches more football than me. but she's she will never miss the florida game because she's a god damn florida fan um but she also like she just wants it on like she now she you know she don't well hell i don't either be paying

attention to like all the stat lines and everything like i'm not that guy anymore i used to be uh but so you would think like oh she really likes football but come sunday when i'm sitting there watching red zone she's like jesus fucking car like she can't stand it there's such a difference you know Yeah, and I think that's beautiful about it, but it's also the thing that people are afraid of losing and they're afraid of losing those experiences. I think a lot of it is overblown. There's still a lot of things to love about it. I didn't detach from this season because players are millionaires now. It's just it just happened that way.

But there's still, you know, I went down to Oxford. Speaking of Georgia, I went down to Oxford for the Georgia game a few weeks ago. I know, I didn't, I know. I didn't send you the con. I didn't say. you the congrats text that you've sent me before. I was in a bad place. I'm sorry. But, you know, go, I do what? I said, wow. Yeah. I, um, I, listen, I actually don't have any like I hate Florida. I hate Alabama. Um, I've never had a problem with old miss. Actually,

I've always said like if somehow Georgia just evaporated and I had to be a fan of somebody else, I would choose Old Miss, but specifically because I love Oxford. The racism. It's low stakes. I do, after we wrap up whatever we're doing, I do have a question for Alex that relates to racism. But yes, congratulations on your win. Thank you. We still going at SEC Championship.

You are. I mean, we never are. I mean, that's the thing is like I was in school from, in grad school, from 2004 to 2010. So like the Houston nut years, the Orgeron years, the post-Ely years, we had a few cotton bowls in there. But that school is historically bad at sports. If you actually look at the data and you can't just cling

to the 50s forever, which is why the tailgating is so fine. In Mississippi, you can, baby. Which is why the tailgating and the party saying, you know, we might not win every game, but we never lose the party. That's true. The happiest, you know, both my parents have passed on and they are both buried within a mile from the stadium. So you can hear when they score a touchdown, you can hear it from their grave side.

That's not why we did it. It's just a fun fact. But some of the happiest memories of my life are within there. It's so rude, but I just imagined you crying at their grave while you guys get beat. Like you're hearing the other team's fans too. And what's funny is they both died during big game week. So my dad died during a big LSU game week during- That's rude.

During 2014. That's like a fall wedding. 2014 and then my mom died last year during Egg Bowl Week. So we were able to, luckily they were both away games. The funerals were not hard to put together. Everybody was out of town. But, you know, some of my happiest memories there are when we were at our worst. We were losing and we're just, we're a low stakes kind of place, you know, like even.

But with like gorgeous outfits, amazing spread. That's true. Like Oxford is one of the, Oxford, the LSUGERS, two places I wanted to visit the most that I have. Yeah. It's the best. Oh, you've never, you've never been to a game at,

at Oxford? Holy fuck, bro. Like, I've been to a baseball game there randomly. That's not what I was in town for. Let's do it. We need to do a tailgate next year.

That's, that's another thing, too, is like you talk about some of your best memories or when you were at your lowest. That's also a thing that doesn't happen in the NFL. Like, in the,

I'm not saying I ever will stop being a Titans fan, but I can, like, we suck right now and I can kind of emotionally check out from that. If Georgia sucked, I would still be a, emotionally invested because it's about more than that. It's about all my buddies who they went to UGA and I'd go visit them every weekend.

It's about, you know, the culture. Like I fucking love Athens. Like it is a different thing. And I don't like I don't know that I fear that we lose all that because that's kind of not up to the higher ups. That's kind of up to us. Yeah. Like if we just keep loving it, like even if.

it changes, if we're like, hey, it can change all it wants, but like the world's largest cocktail party means something and the grove means something, you know? What we've got to do is not let them, them being the people who are making money off this already and want to claim ownership all of this. You can't let them claim the grove. Right. Like the Grove can, the Grove has to be where the students and the alumni chapters of the frats and sororries and all that are able to continue that culture and not, be ran owned, you know, and getting into that, we need to take a break, I think, Corey, for our mid-roll. When we come back, Alex, if it's okay, I'm going to make you answer some technical questions

that I actually think some of our audience would be more into, and then I want to talk about and compare that to what's going on in journalism and the business of journalism right now. Oh, well, you know, speaking of stuff that hits like Oxford, let's be real guys, wearing nice pants. It sucks. All right. Who decided that stiff, uncomfortable, fabric squeezing your family jewels was the key to looking sharp. Well, here's an early holiday gift from us to you. Those days are finally over. Public Rec's Daymaker pants are here to make sure that you stay comfy and classy this season. You'll look as good in the grove as everybody else, but you won't feel as stiff.

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when they're in britches yeah let me just say before we get back to Alex that when you read 4436 it made me think of how I go to thrift stores a lot in the south and for a while I was in the western gear pretty hard I mean I still am let's be honest I wear pearl snaps almost exclusively on the weekends but uh the western pants i didn't get as into and part of the reason is i can never find a pair that fit me right because they're they're just built different in the past they're huskies like everywhere back then was either the skinniest man you've ever seen or they were like a 44 30 they're just shaped like a bowling ball yeah it was so funny you pick these pants up and it looked like fluffy shorts like it was like these are capris on most people this wide

Anyway, speaking of fat men, Alex, what happened to college football? No. I definitely thought that was going towards me, so I'll take it. You said earlier, and to sort of recap for people, there was this long-standing issue of players were the most valuable assets, and they weren't getting any of the money. And now they're getting paid, but ironically, they're still not getting paid from the revenue, created by the product.

They're getting paid by fans and by companies in any given area, like an Oxford insurance company can pay the quarterback to do an ad or whatever. Who is getting the money, Alex? And has that always been the same? It's another complicated answer. Not really complicated. 25 minutes. You know, obviously, years ago, you would always hear at the end of the year about these payouts.

that schools would get from the NCAA because, you know, a lot of, when it comes to ticket sales, and this is all pre-NIL, when it comes to any of that, the NCAA would obviously get part of that revenue, and then they would pay it out based on bowls and national championships and things like that. And then who would get it at the school? Did it go to the football program if the football program won the national title? Who decided? No, it really is.

based on school. So, um, it would typically, it would go back to the athletic department, but that's, you know, that's the argument we hear a lot about women's sports. Like, well, football pays for you to exist. And, you know, the money you, it's so anytime that's brought up, I always think about those wonderful arguments. But the real money in college football is television contracts, period. And, um, I wish I also fuck Notre Dame because of that. Well, I mean, I can't blame for being smart. When, when's the next major television contract negotiation. You know, I should know that and I don't and I want to say. Well, I think you probably don't know because I think it's like at least a decade.

Yeah. I'm trying to think, especially with realignment and everything, because I did, that was a huge part of my research was going back and looking at when these contracts came up and how the SEC just shot up above everybody when they started getting more money. But when we look at, kind of go back to what I was talking about at the beginning, when we look at television college football and where that first intersected, the early 50s, the NCAA came up. with what they call their television plan. And it's like I said, they would say, okay. That's a great night.

Yeah, really snappy. And the idea was, oh, this is great for fans who can't go to the schools and watch the games in person. We can highlight different schools. We'll make it fair across the board, their version of fair. And you also see the implementation of TV bands. Fun fact, Auburn got a five-year straight TV band in the 50s, which only cost them like six games. or something. It was a back-to-back like three year than two year, which at the time, that was a big deal when you were only on television twice a year. Like you lose that reach.

Once you get into the 60s, particularly the early 70s, this is when, you know, we're seeing like cable TV is about to start its rise. You have a lot of people turning to the major networks to watch these college football games. It's really picking up steam. But you still have these old standards that the NCAA is set. For example, University of Oklahoma, they were getting ready to play Texas. I've lost my years on this. I should have put it in my notes. This is somewhere in the early 70s. And because, I believe it's because Oklahoma had already been televised that year. They were not going to televise the game in Oklahoma.

The Red River shootout. We're not going to televise. And another part of it was because four other colleges, three or four other colleges in Oklahoma, and I'm sure I'm getting some of these numbers wrong, within, I want to say 200 miles of Tulsa because they were also playing games that day. The NCAA's argument was, well, if they can watch the Oklahoma game on TV, they're not going to drive to this like small liberal arts college and see their, you know, D3 program playing. So you start, you see the conflicts there. And it was, I mean, this was something that was decided over the course of a week at the beginning of October. It went to like district court. They had protest involved. Like it was a really huge deal. And you see that being kind of this major turning point for like,

why is the NCAA deciding how these individual schools get on TV? More people want to watch the University of Oklahoma than maybe a smaller college. So when you kind of look at the history of that, especially when ESPN comes up and they're like, hey, we're on 24 hours and y'all can just air us for free. We're not going to charge you anything until they made people dependent on it and they could charge whatever they wanted. You really see the individual schools say, hey, we're taking the power out of their hands and we are going to do these contracts. This was really the first time culturally that you see the big arguments we see about NIL. This is unfair. It removes parity. How can these smaller schools compete with the Alabama's of the world, with the Georges of the world, with Notre Dame,

with Michigan? Nobody's going to want to air them. And that's kind of where we get to the point like, yeah, you can't have an organization like this involving adults who can make these decisions on their own in a capitalist society and just expect people to say, oh, but the love of the game, the sweetness of the game. I know that was kind of a really long explanation through that, but like, no, no, no, TV is no, the truth. It's critical. No, it's the truth. Go ahead. Well, I was just going to say like, you know, obviously this was a different time and I don't know if the suggestion is like, you know,

this is going to continue to be an issue forever, but like that, you know, back in those days, there were three channels that we could play anything, right? And then ESPN comes along or whatever. Well, that's not the case anymore.

Now, granted, uh, it's not like there's some teams that like, if you're a fan of them, you've got to buy SEC plus or you've got to buy whatever. But like, you know, there,

it, now and it's not, going to get less this way. There's going to be more opportunities for everybody to be broadcast just because of streaming, just because of different channels being added and stuff like that. So like, I mean, that's got to be good, right? Good in a lot of ways. But I think the idea, it's just very naive when you think back to that NCAA first television

plan, that they could keep interest in all the schools equal, that they could keep it fair. At the end of the day, bigger schools are going to have. have bigger audiences are going to have a stronger alumni base. There's more money going to those schools. I mean, there's never going to be a time when you can truly make that fair based on audience demand and what people want to see. And I think that's kind of where it comes in. That's why you have these outrageous, just because like, billion with a B, right, for televising college football in the SEC and eventually the Big Ten. That's why it's negotiated that way. And theoretically the money would go back into the conferences, go back into the schools, but I think that's

kind of where a lot of this gets lost. Is it solely for more hires, for more facilities or better facilities? Is it solely for just improvement of your programs? This is where schools use that women's sports argument to their benefit. And they say, well, we've got these programs who've got to support that don't bring in a lot of their own revenue. And so I think when you have so many different sources and you're dealing with money that's this big. People don't understand how easy it is for money to just get lost in these programs. So that's what I thought you were getting at. I think what you're saying is the answer to the question,

where is the money go if it's not going to the student athletes is to the schools. And the coaches come. But what that means is sort of a blob. Yeah, I mean, that is shape-shifty and it depends on the school. And nothing's stopping this school from high. hiring a television contract expert who's like, hey, I'm going to help you get television contracts, but you're going to pay me a million a year because it's worth a lot. Right.

There's also another stop my school from being like, yeah, well, I'm also going to give my brother the same job. Well, I mean, we saw that happen at Mississippi with their chancellor position. The current chancellor at my alma mater, he was hired as a consultant to find the chancellor of my alma mater. And in the end, they ended up hiring him. Yeah, it's never happened at the university. It's in a scene. Yeah. Yeah, so we're talking about so much money.

And we're talking about it just kind of going to the schools. And then each school decides what to do with it, which I guess in some sense is fair, but I can't help but feel like potentially a Nick Saban. I know he's gone now, but I'm trying to think of the most powerful person in one of these positions, kind of being like, hey, I want to decide what's done with a lot. lot of this money because I'm the one who built

this program, not Dickhead Chancellor Magoo over here. Well, it's also a conference thing too. So the contracts. That's a Marvel character. He runs a library. The contracts themselves are with the conferences. So, you know, you also have to start at the conference level.

And when you look at like SEC. Oh, right. It's not individual schools. And so like the money does trickle down. But conferences are so key because She said tricklebound, boom. Because like when you see,

that's amazing, when you see like SEC Network, for example, and also we have Big Ten Network, Longhorn Network, you start to see these examples of like conferences getting in with, you know, their television partners. And that's why ESPN is such a fun topic

because we're talking about the college football playoff as if they didn't create it, as if they don't control it, as if they don't benefit from it. And to turn on college game day on Saturday and hear Kirk and the rest of them be like, oh, we just don't know what's going to, you know, some people don't like this about the college football playoff. You made it. You're working for, they created all of this.

Here's a side question that's just for the hardcore football heads probably, but I have always been curious about this. I have seen that and I know exactly what you're talking about. Why do they still suck up to Notre Dame when Notre Dame doesn't belong? to them. Notre Dame, if people who don't know, is owned by NBC. NBC is who does that brand. It has been in perpetuity. Why does ESPN

keep trying to convince me that a fucking team that lost to NYU is one of the four best in the country right now. Like, I don't get why ESPN doesn't have a meeting and go, hey, we should be doing literally the opposite of this. Every time Notre Dame's good, we should be acting like they suck. Is it going to like steal them?

Bro, my my dad has hated like, no, my dad, because my dad's in marketing so he knows a bunch of TV stuff and shit. So not even just because he's a Protestant, but he's hated Notre Dame just purely for all this bullshit for years. He's like, they don't goddamn hit,

but they've got this TV contract, and every year they've got to pretend like there's something else. They're this fucking blue chip dynasty program. Why has he has been pretending? Sorry, Alex, do you have any insight? I have very little insight on it. I mean, I do know their independence helps them right now because while everybody else is going to be playing in conference championships,

they get a break. So I have no, also my Golic Jr. is one of my very good friends. So I have no comment on. No, no. Golick is great. Listen, I like GOLIC. This is an argument for ESPN to go against what you're saying, to say, well, we let our journalists be independent and be their own.

Like, they're not mouthpieces of the company and blah, blah, blah, which is so. obviously not fucking true. But in this one way, I'm watching them constantly. Push Notre Dame. Here's my theory. If they get them in the playoffs, they do get Notre Dame. And so it's like, yeah, we got to give in the playoffs so we can get, you know, we can get NBC's eyes on the SPN anyway.

I didn't mean a tangent on you. What I wanted to get to was. So the way this works, to recap really quickly, these TV contracts pay out billions with a B to these conferences. The conferences get the contract. They get the money. they get to decide internally what to do with it. It's not going to the players.

It is still, in fact, illegal as far as I know, for the conference or the schools to pay the players directly. It has to be an NIL deal made with the outside people. I wanted to sort of, and if I can, get you to draw a parallel. You're working on this project about who killed college football. Who killed journalism? And are there overlaps other than capitalism? And what are those overlaps?

Oh, God. This is why I got to. You got seven minutes. Well, that's why I got out of journalism, because it's hard to answer for it anymore. With journalism, particularly, I've primarily worked in print. I've been digital, but I was not a broadcast person. I just got into it at the right time. Yeah, you do.

So I'm a genius. You're the only journalist here right now, actually. You're the only one working for an actual outlet. You know, back in the day when it was just newspapers, it was really simple. newspapers were all anybody had to know what was going on. So advertisers would pay a lot of money to get in those newspapers because it was prime exposure. And that does really well for decades and decades and decades. And then TV comes along and there was a little bit of a concern of, oh no, is this going to kill newspapers? It didn't really. You still see a thriving print industry, but then the internet comes along.

And rather than taking a beat to figure out like, you know, let's minimize the content we put on, there let's not just give it all away for free. Everybody said, let's just give it away for free because we are going to do the same model that we have in newspapers. Advertiser is going to give us tons of money for the exposure. We'll be fine, except that didn't happen. And so people got used to this media diet of you Google it or Alta Vista it or whatever it was in the late 90s that we were using, asked Jeeves. And you could get it for free for years. Football, what is football? And then you suddenly see paywalls come up in a early 2000s, we were like, I'm not paying for something that's free. Why would I pay for a free

product? Because, you know, for years, all they have to do is pay 50 cents or whatever the subscription was for their newspapers. And so it's been a mess, for lack of a better word, for 25 years of companies scrambling and trying to come up with revenue models that work. And all too often, we see a little bit of success that ends with massive layoffs because they banked on people subscribing to a product that they can just Google and get off of another website. People are not offering original stuff. So it's hard. And it's harder when, you know, like before the election and you see suddenly we don't

endorse candidates anymore. And let me tell you right now. I always thought endorsing candidates was stupid. For paper, for newspapers? Yeah. I never really understood the point of it. However, if you want to cut them, you can cut them at any point. You don't cut them right before the election.

And I believe that journalists. journalism at its core, the question should never be why should we print this? It should be why shouldn't we? Give me a reason why we shouldn't because if not print it. And there are genuine conversations to have about stakeholders and hurting people and journalism ethics. But we're at just a really huge crisis point right now. One of the reasons I got out of journalism and into now I'm a consultant and I do some freelance stuff is because I don't want to wake up one day and find out my job has been cut, you know, and the stress of thinking, oh, my God, massive layoffs here, massively, I just, I can't do it anymore. And when you're that limited on what you can report and you don't have the resources, I managed news teams for years where you don't have enough reporters, but you still have to get the same amount of content out. It's a mess. And I just wasn't, to be honest, I wasn't strong enough for it. I couldn't do it anymore. I was breaking down. Yeah, not to be a nerd and, and use a comparison from the Marvel show Daredevil.

but back in the day. Well, it's because Ben Eurek is one of my favorite characters and he's a, he's a reporter. And anyways, back in the day, it was like, yeah, print media was all there was. So like, whatever you printed, people were just like, well, this is what we read or whatever. You know what I mean? But now there's so many online blogs or whatever that like there's a scene in Daredevil where Ben Eurek is like really trying to break this incredible story that would mean a lot to the community. but his editor's like, Ben, I believe you. I think it's important, but it's not sexy and it doesn't get clicks.

You know what I mean? It's not sexy. It don't get clicks. Like all the president's men, that might not happen now because there's too much other bullshit that we're having to feel, you know, whether you want to blame it on Ted Turner in the 24-hour news cycle or whatever, we're having to fill with all this other stuff that people just like, we're so desensitized to what actually is. Like we've had 19 water gates in the past four years and a lot of people can't name any of them. You know what I mean?

And like that's that's fucking, that's crazy. Yes, it is. I think you guys are touching on the sort of first wave of the death, in my opinion. One thing I read about though, and you touched on it a little Alex of like people were failing to sort of see that you're going to have to drive a lot of a lot of clicks to get this ad money or you're going to have to do a pay to play thing. There were some people who either got lucky or saw that who got the clicks. And what we've seen, though, in the last 10 years is they get bought out by a bigger company. And then oftentimes, ironically, just completely ruined.

It's happened to so many online magazines. It's happened to so many niche ones. It's happened to a lot of political ones. What did you say, Corey? The Washington Post. Yeah, so they get gutted by venture capitalists or by somebody with an axe to grind or Bezos wants to own his own fucking newspaper. Whatever the situation is, it varies from case to case, but then it sort of gets changed. I can't help, but I don't know, I guess draw a bigger either conclusion or fear there.

And I guess to circle back to college football, people love college football because they feel like it's theirs. I went to Old Miss My parents went to Old Miss We went to the Grove We're buried a mile away You know My grandfather used to go to Neeland With his cousin

Wade Payne And they used to get drunk as shit And they would fight people in the parking lot If they didn't agree that General Neeland Was the greatest man that ever looked like That's the ownership of this is ours Right I think people feel that going away

Sure Then they blame whoever their little pet Blame is Some people blame, you know, diva players. Some people blame diva, whatever it is. The NCAA, greed, whatever it is. But they feel that is... I mean, first of all, is that true at all?

Do you agree with that? And second of all, is there a way to fight it? Do you mean for college football or for journalism? Anything. Because I honestly feel like that's happening in America. This whole world is flat thing we've been hearing since, like, 1999. We all got the same fucking strip mall in our hometown now. It's got the same four restaurants at it.

You know, it's like you're losing... Sure. local or it's so like culture but but you are a journalist and college football person by role so there what's your answer you don't have to solve the world's problems can you solve those I can't I will say and this is more anecdotal than an overall answer but nonprofit news is something that is really coming up especially in the south and it was a nonprofit newsroom that broke the far of story it was and won the Pulitzer for it it you know they're doing incredible work at Mississippi today in Jackson. They've also expanded their operations to New Orleans.

They're going to open one in, or they're going to launch a newsroom in Arkansas. There's a great nonprofit news organization in Memphis. It's not just about put your information on the website. I think more and more news organizations are realizing what they have to do is develop a community product and a community resource. And it can't just be, we reported, here's that information. You've got to serve these people. It does mean no good to see a crime report. I live in downtown Chicago right now. It does me no good to see a crime report. This many burglaries. This many put in context for me.

Show me how it is increased and decreased. Show me, you know. What we're doing to solve it. Exactly. Show me. Yeah. What are the worst areas to be in? Or, you know, like, is there an increase in homelessness in this area? And do we have shelters for these people?

Like, show me in context what that means for my community. And that is what news organizations are going to have to do at the community level to be able to rebuild it because people can. can they can look on Facebook and get their gossip. You've got to be a source to help. The whole point of journalism is to help people make better decisions so their lives can be better, period. Political journalism, how to make a good casserole, sports,

all of it is supposed to inform you. And if we don't get back to that. Not just terrify you. Yeah. It's not meant to just be scary. It's meant to say, hey, we want you to thrive and have a good life and have all the information you need and be a watchdog for your officials and your leaders. And I think nonprofit news is an example of something that could very much save community journalism because that's the risk.

If, you know, the post goes down, it's tragic to see what's happened to it. But I personally need to know that in Marion, Arkansas, where I grew up or in Oxford, Mississippi, there needs to be a news source there. You have to know what's going on with your leaders because that's where it starts. That's who makes the decisions about your schools, about your housing, about everything else. so it's almost as if setting up a society where everything that's important has to turn a profit has really bitten us in the fucking ass and I know that it's a little cliche for me to be the one that says that as like the raging communist I'm accused of being but it's like it's so undeniably true that some things can't be for profit and then even in the for-profit

world some things have to be focused I mean going back to college football and the Grove and what we said earlier about not letting that get outsourced. Look, if you want your college football program to do well, you've got to win. I think that's true. But it's not just that. Yeah. Because if all your after is winning, you're going to see what's happening here. Every fucking kid around here, half of them still got the UT on.

Half of them are wearing the Georgia colors. Yeah. Half of them are wearing Alabama. So if you're just focused on winning, you're going to, only one or two people is going to achieve that. You're going to lose fandom to better winner. Well, that's why Mark Rick was so popular. Well, if you're focused on culture, if you've got Peyton Manning, it's not just because he's the winner, he's likable. Yeah.

If you've got the Grove, if you've got the Vaughal Navy. Right. And you can't monetize those things. You can, but if you do, you're fucking it up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that's a great way to end this podcast because I know we all got a run.

We got hard outs. But Alex, please plug on the way out your stuff. Sure. Or Drew, if you need to before you go, go ahead. No, I'm going to go ahead and peace. Alex, thank you. I plugged up top. I'll see you guys out there.

Alex, thank you so much. Thank y'all. This was so fun. Please go listen to Who Called College Football. It's a great podcast. Yeah, it is. And also, yeah, come see us in Nashville at Zanis. Go to we love Corey.com.

That's my bonus stuff. I just put up a new hour of stand-up that is only for people who pay to be behind a paywall. because I don't want it out there for everybody because I was doing a lot of jazz, baby. A lot of jazz. But anyways, thank you, Alex. You're the fucking best. And I love you so much.

Thanks. And now a clip from last week's episode of putting on airs with me and Trey Crowder, talking about the infamous Hulk Hogan. Enjoy. The shirt you're wearing right now made me think of, can you either go and find and read to me

or I'm thinking possibly recite perfectly from memory that famous Hulk Hogan tweet about shoots and works or whatever. Hold on. It's like one of my all-time favorites. Anytime I ever see it or read it or hear it, it just cracks me up. Yes, I'll look it up real quick, two seconds. All right, here we go. That's so great.

Good night Hulkomaniacs and jabroney marks with a life that, hold on. Good night Hulkomaniacs and jabroney marks without a life that don't know it'll work when you work a work and work yourself into a shoot, Marks. It's so funny. It's so funny. For those that don't know in wrestling nomenclature, it's just such a self-parody thing. It's great. It's so funny.

For those of you that don't know, a work in wrestling means, you know, when you're faking it. It's not fake, it's a work. You know, we're working here. And a shoot is when something real actually happens. And wrestling marks, which marks, it's not just in wrestling, but that means a fan.

It goes back to the days when wrestling was at a carnival, right? Which they got that term from all the dudes who would like do tricks and magic and stuff. They wanted to, this is so funny because I'm a wrestling fan. They wanted to find the stupidest at the fair so that they could trick them out of their money. So that was their mark. That's a mark, you know, over there. That's my mark. So that translated into wrestling.

So what Hulk Hogan is saying here, everybody. when he says. Read one more. I'm going to read it one more time, like, slowly, and then I want you to translate it to regular English for the rest of us. So he said, good night, Hulkomaniacs. Hercomaniacs. And Gibroni marks without a life that don't know it a work when you work a work and work

yourself into a shoot, Marks. So what does that mean? I know what Gibroni means. I know now I know what work means in this context, but you don't know what to work when you work of work and work yourself into a shoot. Yeah. Well, the thing is. It makes sense to you, right?

It literally does. Nothing has ever made more sense to me. Right. Now, the only, it would make sense more if he was talking about other wrestlers because this does often happens. Wrestlers do constantly work themselves into a shoot. Yeah. Which is when you're doing an angle. Right. I imagine the best thing that's what, yeah, they're, do you know, they're throwing each other around and through tables and jumping on to each other and stuff. And I imagine sometimes one or both of them gets genuinely pissed. And then it's like now it becomes a little on. So that when that, when you do something that leads to that, you've worked yourself into a shoot. Yes. You've worked yourself into a shoot. And sometimes often people shoot themselves into a work, meaning that first the shoot will happen and then somebody like,

but man will go, damn, this would be a great angle, and they work it. So you shoot yourself into a work. Okay, but what about the way he says that don't know what to work when you work a work and then work yourself into a shoot. Now, what he's saying is you gibroney marks. So he's talking about fans here. He's not talking about other wrestlers because wrestlers aren't marks, right? They're the opposite of marks.

They are the person that, now, granted, there's younger wrestlers that you could say would be marks. And some people, Hulk Hogan has been accused of being a marks. for himself, right? Many times. He's a mark for himself, right? So what he's saying? Like he's bought his own bull- bullshit? Is that what that means?

Yeah, he's a huge... It's all Hogan all the time. And this was classic during the... As soon as he got over, I won't say as soon as he got over, but once he had reached, like, he's got his spaghetti store, you know, he's in comic books and stuff.

He refused to put people over. Like, he just would not put people over. Even if it was for the good of the company, he would not put people over. And what put people over means is you couldn't just beat Hulk, right? Even if the company was like, this is the angle we're wanting to work, he would have to go about it in such a way.

He was like, no, that guy can win the championship from me. However, the only way we're going to do it, there has to be outside interference, or it has to be a disqualification, because in no way can he get the title by purely beating me because I'm Hulk. But yeah, so what Hulk is saying here, what Hulk is saying here,

a gibrony mark is a fan. They have no life, which a Geroni Mark doesn't. Their life is wrestling. They, when they work or work, right? So basically, in their brains, they're working to work. They're watching this thing. And they're like, this is a work. This is whatever.

And then they get really upset about it, right? To the point that it affects, to the point that it affects them. And they then start lashing out, whether it be on the internet or at other people. and then thus they have turned it into a shoot. They've worked themselves into a shoot. But in the wrestling world, it would just be like, John Cena and the rock are feuding. And in the ring,

John Cena went off script a little bit and actually slapped the rock and it didn't hit for the rock. So they actually threw some real hands. That's working yourself into a shoot. But for the fans, it's what I just said. Okay. Yeah, that actually makes sense. You're welcome.

They work themselves into it. They get too invested in something that's a work. because they want it to be a shoot. Every wrestling, every wrestling fan. And they get so mad about it. They work themselves into a shoot. Yes. And I've had this problem with, because I host a wrestling podcast on ad-free shows.

And I love all the guys that are in it. And there have been some gibrony marks in there. And we've just kicked them out. We've just kicked them out. We literally kicked it. We're like, you don't get to come to this live taping of the podcast anymore. You're a mark. What percent of the wrestling fans are gibrony marks, you think?

No, I mean, honestly, like not. really that, I mean, okay, higher than it should be, but lower than you'd think. You know what I mean? Because most wrestling fans I've found to be- You think wrestling has the highest percentage of Gibralny marks amongst its like fandom. Do you know what I mean? No. You think Star Wars has a bigger Jibon-Rogan percentage? Rogan. Percentage, Rogan has the biggest percentage of Jibroni marks. And that's not a good. That's a good total. Yeah. I know it is. I've thought about this a lot. This consumes me. At night, when. everyone else is sleeping, I swear to God, I'm doing some type of filtration of who has the most

jabroney marks in their band-of. Like, I can't. Elaborate. What makes you say Rogan has the most Gibranie marks in his band base? They're just f***gibrony marks, dude. I don't know why I have to, like, I don't know what. Like you, but percentage wise. We got into brownie marks in the, in the ske universe. We, I'm sure that we do, but I don't look at them that way. You know what I mean? I would, dude, I would, I would, I would love if we had opposite of a Gibroni mark. A smart mark. Okay.

A smart mark. It literally is a smart mark. Oh, I thought you were. Okay. So that, no, no. It's called a smart mark regardless. Yeah, because being a mark is not. That choice you make.

It's not a reflection on you. No. You're the target of a piece of content. Yeah. But smart marks know that. They know that. They know that. And they're like, I don't care.

I've bought into this. I'm here just purely for entertainment. They don't know that. Debrony marks have no idea. would they ever. But like a smart, like Conrad Thompson, smartest Mark on her. Because all Mark means in the, in the real context is being a fan. Right. Right. Okay. It's only, it's really only offensive when you say it as a pejorative. Like, you, you know what I mean. But like, constantly I hear Conrad talking about, man, I'm a huge mark for blah, blah, blah. He's a smart

mark. And he knows when a work or work and when a shoot to shoot. And he don't ever work himself into a shoot, brother. You know what I mean? You can't when Rick Flares your guy, uh, You got to know when to work of work and when to shoot a shoot. But anyways, that's what Professor Hogan was saying there.