wellRED podcast - Lil Nas Xcommunicated: satanic panic and fear of the gay black man

Episode Date: March 31, 2021

Trae and Drew discuss the current machination of Satanic Panic as it relates to the provocateur rapper and internet King Lil Was X's new music video - while Drew is inside a church. They also get into the Church of the Satanic Temple and the very nature of time/existence. Keeping it light!

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they're the liberal rednecks that makes some people upset they got three big old dicks that you can suck Well here we are Are you in a church Right now?

That's against the law I'm pretty sure I'm in the library Well when I was over in the fellowship hall Drinking one of them Coke zeros they had in the fridge You know just taking advantage And one of the church ladies came in

And she definitely The look on her face was then it was against the law that I was here. Yeah, I remember I've said this before on the show, but it's been a very long time. Last time I was in a church was when my younger sister-in-law, Katie's youngest sister, who's now like 26 or something, when she got married, it was in a church, of course, full church wedding, and my mother-in-law told me afterwards that there were a great number of people in attendance who were stunned when I did not.

spontaneously burst into flames upon crossing the threshold of that church and were who were pretty, you know, unhappy with my presence in that, in that sanctified, sacrimonious, what's the word, like sacred? I know sacred. I'm just trying to pick a, you know, fancy word and sacred because I'm pretentious. The only black guy in attendance that pulled me aside and told me that I hit for him, so that was cool. exactly that's my point

sanctuary churches will call yeah church that has various rooms like this one does we'll call that part the sanctuary okay now church I grew up in only had three rooms you know yeah this was a small church too so that might not be the right word for it but either way

right well I guess it's it's either the church or the sanctuary is it better or worse for you do you think I'm assuming no wait that's not your daddy's church is it that you're like in-laws i was going to say like with the people because you know you're relatively godless and a bit of a heathen and a liberal and all that is it better or worse for you if you went to like your parents church are people like more forgiven like oh well bless his heart type of thing or or is it like a greater affront to their sensibilities that you are not on facebook anymore and those people couldn't possibly care less yeah my dad's church my dad's

church. Well, the one he, so let me say this way, the church I grew up in, they kind of know what I do. I think they're probably concerned I'm cussing. Yeah. Quote out in the world, but they don't know what was in my book. Well, we haven't said it yet, but you're back in rural Tennessee and that's why you're at the church because that's, you know, the church is the only place in Andy's hometown where high speed internet exists. Only the Lord can afford it. She also got a million. Her mama got it, but she's also got a million kids. What I was going to say, though, is my dad's church is like that, but Angela's church, so they had a liberal female pastor who they've run off. And they've come up with a bunch of reasons that they've done that. But I'll go ahead and tell you right now, they've done it because she's liberal. Not because she's a woman, you mean?

No, they have one. It's like you're saying it's political. It's not any kind of holy, really. reason. Right. Well, it not to them. It's the same. Right. Yeah. It actually kind of works out that you're in a church because the thing that I was bringing to the table today that I wanted to talk about for a little bit, not in like a sincere way because it's such a ridiculous topic is Lil Nas X and all his devilry. It's going on right now because I, you know, I love this type of shit. I love this type of shit so much. I used to have a whole closer about anything that pisses off shitty white people

and like the super churchy white people are among the most annoying ones to me. And anything that gets them all like up in arms always hits for me. So I'm very much enjoying this little Nizek stuff. And I wanted to talk about it. Yeah, we're in a pandemic and we're worried about the devil. We have really gone back to medieval times. But will you get, will you get smotein, you think, if we talk about it while you're in the Lord's house?

Like, we, let's do it. It would be, yeah, that'd be wild. I'm trying to imagine what I would do if you, if you got smoked right now, if you were smited and I saw it. Yeah. That would fuck a lot of shit up for me. And I don't just make, like in a professional capacity. If I literally dissolved in thin air, it's you who I would be worried most about.

Yeah. Yeah, you're, I mean, you're, you know, I mean, of course, I guess in that scenario, you're like in hell now, so we do have to still worry about you. Yeah, there's a lot to unpack there. Smote, but go to heaven. Like, you do, you had a good life, just the one thing you did was wrong. I mean, you know, I'm God dumb. I'm Bible dumb, but I would think anything that warrants smiting.

Because like jerking off makes you go to hell, right? So anything that's like smite level has got to be immediate hell. Straight to hell, don't pass go, don't collect 200 angel dollars or whatever. you've got to go straight to hell. I'm drinking out of a princess cup. People that are watching can say it. It's funny. It's one of Cady's.

Every sin, yeah, continue to hell. I guess it depends on what religion you're in. A lot of it's like if you get saved, everything's forgiven though. So that's why, but look, we'd have to get into years of dogma and discussion and how to get in heaven

and the difference in Catholics and Protestants and then the difference between falling from grace churches versus fully grace. It doesn't matter. What we really want to talk about is how this little boy has lap dance the devil and gotten them into a frenzy and it hits so fucking hard for me. Yeah, do you think I hate to be, first of all, let me say that even if it is what I'm about

to ask you, it still very much hits for me. But like, how sort of contrived or calculated do you think it all is? Because, I mean, he put out them devil's shoes first. So, or he announced these devil's shoes. These special limited series Nikes, but they're not actually Nikes. They're like aftermarket Nikes, whatever, but they're Satan Nikes that they're making 660, 66 pairs of, and each one of them contains one drop of human blood, pretty metal, in my opinion. And then he announced that at the same time he puts out this video in which he is lured away from the Garden of Eden

and then takes a stripper pole to hell where he gives the devil a lap dance and then murders him and takes the throne. I say again, pretty metal, conceptually speaking. But all that came out at once, and it's like, is it just, did it just go as far as this video will help to sell these shoes and vice versa? Like, how much do you think the outrage was like sort of planned for or anticipated? Because I feel like you've got to know that the outrage is coming, I think. So it's like, how much of that do you think they wanted? according to him all of it like he tweeted this morning

I had nine months to plan rolling this video out y'all ain't going to beat me I will continue to win okay and that's what that's so that so he did see it coming which again you know if you should you'd have to I think but like that's not the same as him saying that he like courted it you know what I mean like he like wanted that or whatever wanted it. But I would say that I've said this about him before. I think in this

podcast when he first did the thing with Billy Ray, and this applies to us in comedy. This applies to a lot of people making stuff. He's good at music. That song slaps. But he's better at the internet. For sure. And we are all dealing with and the things we're fans of that the people who are best at the internet, you know, get more popular, irrespective of the art.

he is winning at the internet constantly and I'm enjoying that. I enjoy following him on Twitter more than I do listen to his music. Yeah, me too. I'm not really that into his music either, but I'm also like, part of that's just like, I'm, you know, I'm accepting my old maness, you know, my ever-increasing level of old that I have. I used to never have those moments where I was like,

I don't get this. What are the kids on about with this, you know? because I was in my 20s or whatever too, and I know a lot of people, like 30s still isn't old, but now I have been introduced to that notion, and I notice it more and more. I'm just not an ass toll about it. Like when I hear something like that,

like I said, but the first major one for me, I think a few years ago was actually was Billy Elish, I think was the first one where I listened to it. And I was like, I just straight up don't understand this. I was like, and I realize like, oh, I guess I'm getting old or something.

because this is she was huge she still is huge but i mean she exploded and was massive and i was like i just don't get it i just don't but that's okay it ain't for me that's fine and hell since then drew i've learned to play a billy i was song on the ukulele because of my musician app so you know i'm open-minded about it but it does happen but i feel the same way about little naus x but what you were saying about being good at the internet's more important than being good at the art form that's 100% true but I almost think that he kind of transcends that dynamic a little bit because he's like he's like a straight up provocateur basically that's kind of what I'm trying to say but you beyond just being like a meme lord or whatever you know what I mean like beyond just like good at

the internet stuff he like he like strikes nerves and shit which I think is a sort of talent in and of itself and yeah he's got that shit in spade so I certainly appreciate him for that Madonna did that. Yeah. I know there's a hundred other examples. You know, I think that's what they were going for with the Super Bowl thing, and then J.T. threw Janet under the bus, and it kind of back a little bit. But, yes, there's a history of that.

It's also, and this is important to bring up, I think, I think it matters to the conversation. It's because he's gay. It's 100% because he's gay, both inside the black community. Well, it's kind of both. I mean, like, because he started with Old Town Road in his first big, controversy was that billboard or whatever they wouldn't the country music powers it be took it off the country music charge and refused to put it back on the charge and whatnot and nobody knew he was gay

then and then it was like people were like it's because he's black it's because he's black and it's a black song and that's why they won't let him on the country songs but our country charts will know that fucking marshmallow on there or whatever like that was like the first controversy and it was sort of centered around his race at least the narrative of it was and then he came out as gay and just like you said because within the black community because he gets homophobic tweets and shit from black people all the time because he'll retweet them you know put them in their place or whatever he just like he just stay pushing buttons just by being the person that he is seemingly but it's beyond like for this one DMX had all the devil imagery in the world and

no one in the black community as far as I know ever was like I can't show this to my Oh, you're talking about this thing right now specifically. Yeah, and then the Rolling Stones had a song literally sympathizing with the devil. And that's every conservative dad's favorite fucking band. But, though, it was also, I wasn't there, but I mean, hell, my daddy bitched about it. Back in the day, the people that are the age of the people who are infuriated by Little Nisex right now, the people who were that age then, they very much said rock and roll music was the devil. And, you know, like it was horrible and they hated it.

And it was a hard thing. I know, but those people became them, which we know. That's what happened to the boomers. You know, they became that way in all kinds of respects. But like the Rolling Stone still hit for them. All right. Billy Eilers. Their own hypocrisy and whatnot.

You know what I'm saying? But, like, I just don't find that part of it surprising. That whole is the devil. Like, that's always kind of. been there. Just they age into different tears of it. I don't find it surprising, but Billy Elish did it recently in a video and no one made a big stink about it. I guess what I'm saying is if Miley Cyrus had killed the devil, it would come up, but I don't think it would be as controversial. I think the fact that a man lap dance

on another man is what is happening here. And again, going back to DMX inside the black community, I mean, he literally was tempted by the devil and then lost. Like, he didn't overcome the devil in that album. Like, if you listen to the skits, he gave in to the devil, and that's how he became the dog. And I just think that, I think that him being gay is a lot of that. I think you're a hundred percent.

You said it said he killed him, right, in the video? He killed him and assumed the throne. Or put his crown on anyway. He didn't sit in the throne, but it's pretty, pretty rad. but I actually thought, because I am old, I hadn't seen the video or anything. I just saw all the outrage and all the stories about it and stuff first. So I went and looked it up, you know,

let's see what all these kids are on about. And honestly, I was expecting it to be way more, like, R-rated or more hardcore, more vulgar or whatever than it was personally because people were so pissed off. but like, but I mean, it is very gay though. So like I think you're on to something. It's really. It's the gay.

It's mostly the gay because like the imagery and all that stuff in it, it's, I mean, it's well done. It's well executed and all that shit. But it's not like, it's not that fucking intense or anything. It's not like shit we haven't seen before or whatever. But the gay, the gay part, another, a nearly naked man lap dancing on the devil and everything, that added element to it, I think, definitely spins these people up a lot more.

He is brilliant and doing it well, which you mentioned. And then the other thing you said is, oh, it's not that vulgar. I think that's on purpose. It's unassailable. It puts him in a position to then be like, let's review here. What do you really have a problem? them with, you know, and he's good at it.

And that's what I was saying about good of the internet. That probably sounded limiting when I said that earlier, and provocateur is a better word. The internet is where we live now, I guess is why I was phrasing it that way, but that's what I meant. His artistry to me is his ability to be that person. And you made my point for me or made the case better than I was making it. He opens up and he creates controversy about not being on the radio.

then he comes out as gay and now he's worshipping the devil and has blood in his shoes and it's like where can he go from here i'm excited to see it yeah and also just since i have kids um i'll talk a little bit about that part of it too and none of which can be surprising to be about of course i feel that it's ridiculous but like it's not just and you mentioned this too like it's not just like middle-aged white karens who are concerned about this right now i saw where little Nizex had retweeted a Twitter beef or thread or whatever debate he was in with Joyner Lucas, who's another younger rapper. And like, I actually really like Joyner Lucas.

I was so disappointed to see this because I was like, because Jordaner Luke, I love his music. And I feel like a lot of his lyrics wouldn't make you think that he's a pearl clutcher at all. And then, but he came after a little Nausex and was like saying, I mean, it's like, was trying to frame it like he was being diplomatic, but it was still a dick move because he was like, I think what he fails to realize is that he's, you know, every young kid's idol. Every young kid loves Old Town Road and they love Lil Nizex. And then with no disclaimer at all, he just comes

out with this devil lap dance stuff or whatever. And Lil Mazzex said, he was like, I sing about lean and adultery in Old Town Road. If you let your kids listen to me, that's your fault, which is all my opinion on it up, my opinion of, my opinion of it is too. Anytime this type of thing comes up, it's like, you, you, hell, Eminem said it, you know, who's like, what's that line where he's like, they blamed it on something and they blamed it on Maryland. And they blamed it on heroin. They blamed it on Maryland, where were the parents at, you know, whatever. It's like, it's like, you can control, first of all, if they're old enough, if they're like fucking teenagers, when they do sneak around and listen to and watch whatever they want

to and beyond your grasp, They also are like, that's what teenagers do. They're not going to be corrupted by a fucking YouTube video with, you know, a devil lap dancing at the age of 16. It's probably going to really hit for them, but it's not going to like send them down the wrong path or whatever at 16. So if you're talking about younger kids, like minor eight and nine, that's on you if they're seeing shit that you don't want them to see.

First of all, I don't care. Like I'm more like my dad where like I don't censor them near. as much because I think they can handle it. Their mama is not the same though, but like I tweeted, you know, which is true, like my sons have been so far completely unaffected by the little Nazex tragedy or scandal, you know, because like how would they be? Like how would it affect them? It doesn't affect them.

So I'd like pearl clutching over like, oh, but the children, though, it's like it's not hard at all to keep your children from being turned into devil. worshiping Cretans or whatever by the internet, if you just pay attention and give a shit, and if that is happening to them, it's your fault, not fucking little Nizze. Not Little Nizak's responsibility to ensure that your children only watch the right things on the internet. And that's always the subtext. I know this has been said a million times over the years, but it never goes away.

That whole like think of the children's stuff, like it always comes back up over and over again, but the argument remains the same. It's like, that's on you. parents of the children. Well, these culture wars are contrived. And the reason you know it is the things Joyner Lucas says in his raps used to be a product, you know, used to be in the crosshairs of those same culture wars. And then going back to the Old Town Road point, it's no longer provocative to

rap about lean and cheating on your woman. So that's why. we let kids listen to it because once the outrage cycles went through and we went through the decade of that and rap stopped being the target of the tipper gores of the world or whatever people wear like oh it doesn't matter it actually doesn't matter if kids hear this stuff or not you know these are kids rapping about it like the kids are already talking about lean and cheating so we can act like we go don't let your kid hear that well where'd the kid rapping about it here It's already in.

The culture's already that. We're already drinking lean. We're already doing fucking drugs. How come when the opioid epidemic started, we weren't thinking about the kids? How come when we talk about health care, we're not thinking about the kids? How come when we talk about charter schools and education, we're not thinking about the kids? How come we only are worried about the kids when this young black gay rapper is lap dancing on the devil? but we can't have an honest conversation about what we're doing to the kids

by letting army recruiters talk to them and send them text messages when they're 17 fucking years old or the as bad comes to your school and everyone's like you should take this test maybe the military like fuck you that also like I think that same dynamic that you just laid out applies to like how they operate writ large and you can see it recently, meaning like, we're back, we're, it's so, it's funny to me that like this quickly into a Democrat being president again, we are already back to Dr. Seuss type shit, potato head type shit. You know what I mean? Like this, like the silly, like the things, the scandals that they fabricate or whatever and bring up and get pissed off about that like seem to me to be objectively silly compared to the things that we freak out about. when they're in power.

You know what I mean? Like when we freak out, it's like children in cages and fucking war in Iran and the end of the earth due to climate change and shit. And when they're in power, the things they're freaking out about

are, you know, shoddly drawn cartoons in 70-year-old books that no one was reading in the first place and the remover of one identifier from a chain of 70-year-old children's toys that no one really cares about. And now young gay black rappers YouTube videos.

Right. Well, and we could also point out their hypocrisy if we wanted to, and we do, because this is a podcast, of cancel culture's gone too far. Dr. Seuss was the product of his tie, this, you know, all this, that, like save the books versus, now this music video would not be on the internet. You know what I mean? Oh, you froze. for a second I was like well he just don't agree with me

this sucks you're back now you're back for a minute did you catch any of that? Save the books well the save the books when it comes to Dr. Seuss and then we hate cancel culture save these books and then a week later take this video

off the internet because of kids so kids can read about and I'm going to quote here I apologize but I'm quoting kids can read about slant-eyed Asians in a Dr. Seuss book And if anyone says, I don't know about that, they're cancel cultures. But if a grown man who does not try to cater to kids, he's not making children's books or children's songs,

makes a music video where he defeats the devil, now you are okay with cancel cultures. So we can talk about that hypocrisy. Well, dude, it's just like, I mean, I feel like you could argue that, like, they tried to cancel Lenny Bruce, you know? And then, like, and then again, with rock and roll music, those hearings,

in the 80s or whatever, you know, like, cancel culture has always been a thing. It's just like with everything else in our society, the internet just exacerbates the shit out of everything to the nth degree and makes it all seem way more pronounced and whatnot. But almost none of it is actually new, though. But with that said, let's give some props out here to our sponsors this week. Talk about them for a second.

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because I feel like most ones have tried to have been similar. They have this like, I don't know, like it feels like essential oil or something like potpourri or something type of. aspect to it that kind of don't hit for me. So yeah, I dig the powders too. One more for y'all. We're still having a good time on stereo. The stereo app has thousands of live social conversations with a wide range of genres for every interest, news, comedy sports, and more, and the stuff that we do as well. So as we have told you all every week for the past few weeks, it's very easy. All you got to do is get the stereo app on your device. It's completely free.

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All right. Back to it. What are we talking about? You're talking about the devil? The devil and pissed off white people and whatnot. Yeah. We've regressed as a society to having pandemics, plagues, if you will, and being worried about the devil.

Yeah. That is funny, but I did, I want to, like, and you've kind of already covered it. because you're talking about how the gay part, like ramps it up a notch, but it's like, I think it's funny that the devil always, you can't keep the devil down, buddy.

He always wins and he's always around, and I hate him. The devil always comes back up, you know? But they're like, because again, what old rock, like the first rock and roll when it came out was the devil. And then there was like the satanic panic. And when heavy metal came out,

oh, Lord, that was the ultra devil. And then Eminem was the devil. And like, dude, Harry Potter. was the devil for a brief moment in time there because, you know, magic don't jive with the Lord or whatever, I guess. But anyway, it's like, it's always the devil. And I think, I feel like I was almost kind of starting to miss the devil. So I'm glad that Lil Nas has brought the devil back into our lives and our hearts and our butts. And, yeah, I just think. Well, that's part of it. Yeah, well, as part of it is, and maybe they are, maybe in their heart of hearts, they would admit

this, but these culture warriors who are on the right, on the right wing side, they need people like Little Nausex, because let me tell you this, if provocateurs ain't talking about the devil, that means the devil don't matter no more. Right. Yeah. If Little Nausex ain't doing stuff like that, you actually are in a world of hurt Christians, because nobody's afraid of your boogeyman anymore. yeah i wonder how i wonder how actual satanist because they do exist i wonder how actual satanist feel about these types of things when they happen and what the reason i say that is because my understanding of like actual official by the book satanist is that they it's not that they literally support the like red horned devil man from like christian iconography or whatever it's more like

this different ideology that look I don't know anything about it I just know that it's not understood it's not the way that people typically understand it to be with like fucking goat sacrifices and all that type of shit and I wonder if when this type of stuff happens if they feel like oh man it's going to make us be even more misunderstood or if they're like you know hell yeah party on or whatever i can't imagine so just so i'm clear you're not talking about like that church of Satan that atheists but they're making a point you're talking about people who they're like pagans right like they think that there was an angel you don't hear me i do hear you no i mean the people that like identify as satanists right so those are the people i think and you can correct me if i'm

wrong about who you're talking about or maybe i'm just ignorant i think those folks are like lucifer was lied about in the christian texts because that you couldn't handle the truth of how wonderful Lucifer is or whatever. That's my general kind of understanding of it too, but again, I don't have a good thing. If you believe that, so you believe that the devil in Christianity exists, but you reject the whole religion built around hating him? I don't think you give a fuck what little Nas X does. Like that would be so hilarious if that's what you care about.

Right. So, all right, according to Wikipedia, contemporary religious practice of Satanism began with the founding of the atheistic church of Satan in America in 1966, although historical precedents do exist. Prior to the public practice, Satanism existed primarily as an accusation by various Christian groups toward perceived ideological opponents rather than a self-identity. Satanism and the concept of Satan has also been used by artists and entertainers for symbolic expression. Contemporary religious Satanism is predominantly an American phenomenon. the idea is spreading elsewhere with the effects of globalization and the internet. The internet spreads awareness of other Satanists and is also the main battleground for Satanist disputes.

Satanism started to reach central in Eastern Europe in the 90s in time with the fall of the Soviet Union. And most notably in, noticeably in Poland and Lithuania, predominantly Roman Catholic countries. Let's say here. I'm trying to find some. Yeah, I think what it is is that pagans, there are certain pagan groups who will engage with these story of Lucifer and say that's actually X, Y, or Z. But I don't think they're Satanic. I don't necessarily worship that. Right.

Yeah. I know that I've seen it. I've run across it before. I know they have like principles of Satanism and things like that, you know, like, but I can't remember, what are they called? Damn it. The occult? Like Alastor Crowley type people?

Yeah, I don't know. I'm not sure. Edenness. Levean Satanism. I don't know. There's too much. I should have, if I was going to try to talk about this,

I should have read it all before we got started because I can't find the stuff I'm looking for right now. But I feel like a lot of it has to do with like, it's kind of like libertarian-y in my recollection where it's like, you know, do what hits for you, but without hurting other people, basically. I think that's just.

I mean, that's Church of Satan too. That's what I'm talking about. But I'm trying to recall it off the top of my head. The Church of Satan's like precepts or whatever. So are you asking me, what do I think the Church of Satan thinks about what Little Los X is doing? Yeah. I think it hits for them.

I think they understand that when he does something like that, people will assume that they're evil too, you know, that it will make them more misunderstood. But I think they knew that already. I mean, you're calling yourself Satan. and it's basically ironically or as a gag. So that's, you know, that's on you if you get misunderstood. Plus, you don't be friends with those fucking people anyway. Yeah, okay, I found some stuff here.

This is according to Wikipedia. The 11 satanic rules of earth. One, do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked. Two, do not tell your troubles to others unless you're sure they want to hear them. Three, when in another's home show them respect or else do not go there. Four, if I guessed in your home annoys you, treat him cruelly and without. mercy. Five, do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal. Six, do not take that which does not belong to you unless it's a burden to the other person and they ask to be

relieved of it. Seven, acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all that you have obtained. Eight, do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself. Boy, I'm breaking that rule real bad there. And no one. It didn't hit for me either. Yeah, not yet right, for sure. Yeah, I'm coming out to gatebreaker rule number one. That's kind of my whole thing, breaking rule number one. Number nine, do not harm little children. Number 10, do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food. Wait, can you kill human animals for other reasons?

I don't know. I think they're just clarifying. I mean, yeah, you're right. That's not really covered in here other than little kids. It says do not harm little children and then do not kill non-human animals. I guess the humans are all right if they're not hitting for you, if they annoy you. Number 11, when walking in open territory,

bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him. This is rad, dude. It's pretty metal, which checks out,

real quick, because these are much shorter, the nine satanic sins. uh what uh wait let's pause for a second there's 11 commandments or tenets or whatever satanic rules 11 of those and then there's nine sins not 11 instead of 10 commandments and seven deadly sins they've got 11 and 9 it hits for me that they've done more but yeah right it hits for me that they've done more and it don't hit for me because i'm like it wouldn't have been more metal if y'all were like there's only fucking four rules right go ahead so the nine satanic sins are stupidity pretentiousness, solypsism, self-deceit, heard conformity, lack of perspective,

forgetfulness of past orthodoxies, I guess forgetting where you come from or something, counterproductive pride and lack of aesthetics. Satan has declared you must look rad. That's not look rad. This is Reddit religion. Oh, yeah, dude. It's very in line with what. Read that second one.

I think it was the second one. Pretentiousness or solicism? It was, don't be stupid and then don't be pretentious. Back to back. That's hilarious. That's Reddit in a nutshell. Making fun of everybody who's dumber than you and then being like, but I'd never be pretentious.

But don't be pretentious about it. Yeah, right. As an epistemological, epistemological position. Plypsism holds that knowledge of anything outside one's own mind is uncertain. The external world and other minds cannot be known and might not exist outside of your own mind. But they are calling that a sin. So you shouldn't believe that to be true. Which I kind of find that one surprising.

But again, obviously, I'm a little devil dumb too, a lot about the devil. I didn't understand. But the idea that, like, I can only be 100% certain of what's inside of my own mind and everything else might just be a construct or whatever, I would have thought that was kind of a devily type of attitude, but apparently it's number three on their list of sins. Yeah. You're talking about solipsism?

Yeah. Yeah. That in and of itself being a sin is the most pretentious fucking thing I've ever heard of in my life. It's like literally right after don't be pretentious, they made solipsism a sin. So I'm going ahead and say that it's going the way of every religion I've ever come in contact with.

It's no hint for me. right yeah yeah none of them do i have no i know that like or i think that there also exist a current or group of people that are somehow aligned with satanism who's really all they really do is try to ensure the separation of church and state and fuck up the lord and stuff which hits for me as opposed to it being like a real sort of like dog that they hold or things like that. They're more focused on like using Satan to highlight society's hypocrisies where religious freedom is concerned or something like that, I think.

Yeah, and I thought that's what the Church of Satan was. They like construct statues of Baphimet. It's funny that, no, I think you're right, but you're right because you're into metal music and you're into what they do. And then I'm over here like, I know the word epistemological, because I engaged with these religious motherfuckers sincerely when I was younger. Like I was like, let me actually, I wish I knew what Baffa met, how to say that instead is what I'm saying, Tray. Your 20s were ratter.

I probably fucked it up, but I appreciate that. But yeah, it may be one and the same. I'm just saying, like, I think there's at least a sect of Satanist in the modern day who, like, don't really, like, practice all this shit as a religion. but like I said, use it as more like kind of political tool or whatever to make a point. I mean, yeah, I think so. I think so, but I don't really know. What if the devil's real. You ever think about that, how rad that would be just as a concept?

Yeah, I mean. There's actually like one person responsible, one entity responsible for all evil in the world. Yeah, that would be wild. I've always thought like that whole, and this has been brought up a bunch too by a bunch of other people, but like, you know, that whole idea of like if there is. a hell the way that the people I grew up around the way that they described the devil and hell like if it is real it's like I would much rather go there and hit I think it's like that's where that's where all the hitting people are that's where all the men and my family are is where my dad

is it's where all my papas are at like like you know what he say about Jim Jeffries had a bit about that one of his earliest specials I don't remember right now he's like he's talking about eternity in general and like spinning it with the devil he's like at the devil is real he's really he's like, he's like, you know, and you do fucking coke and holes and all that. It's like he's going to fucking dig you, you know, like you have a great time or what, you know, that type of thing. Like I always kind of non-ironically felt that way. That's also the flip side of that coin.

Family reunions are always hot. So it's fine. That, it's the flip side of that coin. That idea of, I always thought attributed to Marcus Aurelius originally, but I don't know if that's, true, but that thing where he says like, and I'm going to butcher it, but it's like, if they are, if, if gods do exist and they are just, then live a worthy and, you know, hospitable life or whatever, and they will reward you for that. If God's, uh, exist and they are not just, then you shouldn't, you shouldn't care about

their, you know, judgment of you, basically. You shouldn't seek to please them if they suck, basically. So live a good life and you'll be rewarded and, you know, by those around you. And if there are no gods, then live a good life because you'll be, you know, carried on in the loving memories of your ancestors and things like that or whatever. So it's basically just like you should want to live a good life regardless of what's going on up in the heavens and if there is a god and he has all these fucking arbitrary ass rules for you to follow then like

fuck all that anyway like he clearly don't hit i'm not worried about satisfying a dude who's that much of an uptight prick about everything basically well and also i've found i can say as someone who has been obsessed with those questions from a very young age as it was you know indoctrinated to me if you just can't let go of worrying about all that, about what comes next or what's bigger than us, smoke you some weed and start thinking about multiverses and different forms of consciousness

and the idea that the universe is God and we're a piece of it. It's way more fun. There's just so many more different places you can go when you let go of just evil, good. It's like, what about potential and love, and infinite love, and somehow getting infinite love on a feedback loop and existing forever as just love and light.

Wouldn't that be fucking rad? Get high and think about that instead of a dude with horns. That would be super rad. I know you speak from experience. I just a small like, you know, advisory there. You can, there's like you can get too high and go down a slightly wrong branch of those trees that you're describing right now.

And that'll fuck you up too. You're talking about, infinite love, and then you're like, infinite. What even is infinity, though? There had to be nothing before there was something, didn't there? But what is nothing? How long was there nothing? How could there not have been time when there was nothing?

What even is will something end? What happens when it ends? Is there nothing after that? And I'm not bringing religion into any of all. I'm just... I'm just... My first panic attack. Yeah, right.

say like I uh yeah that happened I think we talked about it on here I know we talked about it off mike but like I just went through that for the first time like in the past year I don't know if it was the pandemic or I used to love getting high and talking to people uh you know about like space and shit I always loved all that cosmic type stuff it's always really hit for me but for summer I don't know if it's just again getting older the pandemic general anxiety or what but sometime in the last year I got a little higher and I meant to and I was reading about some space shit on the internet and buddy I spiraled and I had to like put my phone down and I was like I about I about freaked out I just had to curl up into bed and close my eyes like it's all right you got to worry about fucking

infinity right now you know or whatever and and you know it was fine I fell asleep in the next day it was fine but that was my first experience with that those like existential crises that people are always talking about and I got to say didn't hit for me well that that was my first one when I made that joke about taking me back to my first panic attack I didn't mean at 20 I mean I'm in at 8 I did not I was not one of those kids in church going like oh no what if I'm not a good enough person to get in heaven that wasn't the type of problem I was having my problem was like what if I don't want to be in heaven right forever like I just met this savior and you want me to commit to him for a long time I can't even sign a gym membership and y'all want me to commit forever this is crazy and I don't know if I don't know if you had this exact experience and I don't remember who exactly told me this but I know it was related to religion

I know I was relatively young and I know it was presented as an argument against hell. It was like the idea of being in hell for eternity and it's like them describing what eternity is and I've seen this pop up in other places since then and I'm a butcher this too but it's just thinking about people saying things like this

to like small young children now is so wild to me because like the explanation had something to do with like, imagine a gigantic sphere made of solid gold that's as big as Mount Everest. And every 2,000 years, a golden eagle swoops down and brushes the surface of the sphere with the tip of one feather and then disappears into the heavens and returns in 2,000 years and does it again. By the time that golden sphere is ground completely to dust, that will be, but the very beginning of eternity.

Yeah, that's the scariest fucking sins I don't. That's what I'm saying. It's like, fucking what? And they're saying it's like, that's why you don't want to be in hell for eternity. And you're like, sure, but can we go back to all that shit? What? How the fuck does any of that work? It's crazy to think about.

And I was nine. Right. And like, and I feel bad for my parents sometimes because they were ill-prepared for a nine-year-old being in that place mentally of going, what? You know what I mean? They were, they were ready for, like I said, am I good enough to go to heaven? They weren't ready enough for, is heaven good enough for me? Because I don't want to live forever. Like, so far, living nine years of it, it's been pretty cool. I like basketball. But trying to do this for a long, long time, I ain't with that. It's too, it's too crazy. It's, it's unfathomable.

It's literally unfathomable. The comment. concept of like eternity and also the concept of just nothingness like concepts like that are literally unfathomable as far as I'm concerned and I know people say like when it comes to nothingness they'll say like well you were nothing before you were born you were fine with that right it's like okay yes I was but that doesn't help me with what my brain is currently you know yeah conceptualizing right now you know what I mean like I still don't that don't help me understand did like literally what is nothing? What is nothing that you can't, you can't explain it in a way that I can understand. So don't try. It's wild. Because there had to be, it's like there had either, either at one point

there was nothing. And then all of a sudden there were things, right? Or there has only ever been things. There was never nothing. But like, how does that work either? Like, is, there, how is there no start point to it? And if there is a start point, what's before the fucking start point? I can't. All right, so two things. I'm going to tell you why I fired my therapist. Before I do that,

on that question and point you just made, which is one that has haunted me and haunted my parents for a few years because they wanted me to stop asking them stuff like that. We are dumb. Yeah, right. but we're the smartest thing we know. Yes. And so we, you know, Plato's cave is the most common example of how I would try to answer your question.

I don't know if you're familiar with Plato's cave. The whole thing was he paints this image of two people staring at a cave wall looking at shadows on the wall and they cannot turn their head. All they know is the shadows on that wall. Right. The shadows are formed by a sun behind them that is casting shadows on physical objects in the physical universe. but since they don't know what the sun is, they don't know what those physical objects are, all they know are those shadows,

they cannot fathom the sun or the object. Right. We, I mean, this is he, this is why he made that illustration. He wasn't just talking about a fucking cave. It was an old point. But our consciousness is just incapable of seeing outside of the cave.

Yeah. And accepting that. Yes. It's painful. Yeah. It's painful. It's, it's, it's really painful. painful to try to accept that. You're right, but I've also, that's kind of, that's my general

landing point for all of this. And that's actually tied to the same reason why I don't actually, might surprise some people, I don't really identify as a full on, as an atheist, just because I believe that the actual reality of the universe, whatever it is, is likely to be so far beyond our current capacity to possibly understand it, right, that I can't roll anything out. And also, like you said, just kind of have to accept that I'm not ever going to understand that shit. And also anyone else that claims to other than, like physicists and stuff, they don't do, it's not the same because they'll be like, here's what we do understand about it. But there's so much that we don't, you know, so they don't claim to have all the answers either.

Anybody that does claim to have all the answers, I know is full of shit, because I don't believe that's possible for the current type of creature that we are with the brains that we have. If you enjoy this conversation, into the Abisket podcast is my sister podcast that I do with T.J. Lewis, and the earlier episodes, especially, we get into a lot of this stuff. Go check it out. Obviously, check out Evening Skews and check out Corey's podcast with Mr. Coon called...

Through the Screen Door. Through the screen door with Corey Ron Forster. You guys said a full title, which is his name. The reason I fired my therapist is we were talking about this and anxiety. And she was, I think, trying to get me to accept, this is me looking back on it. This is not how I experienced it necessarily in real time. I think she was trying to get me to accept that I have anxiety, irrespective of the environment and the world. But the way it came out was I was talking about religion and my early experiences with

panic attacks and trying to deal with that and the concept of eternity freaking me out. And I said something along the lines of, well, you just shouldn't tell eight and nine year old stuff like that, especially if you haven't personally done the work to go through all these questions yourself to at the very least tell them this is why i don't know and here's what i've thought about it and i said i think maybe she said why or or what is it about you that and i said i just don't think i couldn't at eight years old process all of that and she said or her you maybe just can't process reality what and i think she's a christian and had hidden it until that point and then just had enough of me.

You know what I mean? I don't know that though. Again, it could have been her trying to say, Drew, you're always blaming this and that. You can't deal with stuff. But I've thought of that since. At the moment, I interpreted it as, well, hell and heaven are real and you just don't know how to deal with it.

Right. Yeah. It's why this is a separate, but related to what you just said, thought. It doesn't hit for me thinking about, like, the fact that, you know, high level professionals can be just as incompetent in various ways as the rest of us can. You know what I mean? Because there's like, there's this inherent tendency to trust them,

which you should generally trust them. That's how you get anti-maskers is when people don't trust them. But then you run into shit like that because like, you just remind, I hadn't thought of this guy in years. But I had a psychology professor in college who was a practicing therapist. I didn't go to his practice or anything, but I know he was because he talked about it. And he had patients and all this stuff. And it's one of those things right. even it was just a footnote in one class but he said it and I was I just perked up and I was like well that's fucked up but then he just moved on and never came back to it but I've thought about

it since he also was clearly a Christian this is in Cookville Tennessee he's a Christian he's a practicing therapist and the subject of homosexuality came up in a like intro to psych class and I realize now basically what he was doing was he was like I'm just I'm just not going to address this subject because you know I guess he knew if he did he'd get into some whole muddy waters with Jesus and the gays and all that. So all he chose to say was, he was like, here's all I'll say. It's everything in life is related to choice. He's like, it's all a choice, sexuality included.

So basically homosexuality is a choice. He said that 15 seconds. He said that. He was like, and now moving on. But anyway, and it was just a moment in one class, but I think about that since then. I'm like, man, it's fucked up that that dude, Like, A, it don't have for me that that guy's a college professor, if he still is.

But B, knowing that that dude is like a practicing mental health professional, I've just, I don't like that. I'm not comfortable with that. And you know there's not, he's not alone. You know, there's a bunch of them like that out there. No, it's mind blowing. I mean, dude, let's go full circle. If you look out across this country right now,

We've got housing issues. We've got the healthcare problems we've been talking about. The poverty level is increasing. The separation between the rich and the poor. That gap is widening. We've got gun violence. We've still got racism. People literally tried to sack our fucking capital because a con man lost an election.

If that's going on and then you're worried about a made-up fucking horned goat dude in a burning place from a book that's over thousands of years old, and you're going, the problem with our country is people don't respect the, you know, the idea of the devil enough. No, you're the problem with the country. You have mental health issues. And I fired her because I didn't know. Like, I was never ever going to, like giving her the benefit of the dad as a human that she was trying to say, Drew, your problem is you don't know how to deal with the world, not every, you know, stop blaming other people or whatever.

but I could never know that. You know what I mean? I could never just know. How do you say to someone, listen, are you a Christian? Because I'm going to fire you if you are. Right. You know what I mean?

What it for me, though. All right. Let's wrap it up. Get you out of the Lord's house before you can bust. Thank you all for listening. And I want to remind you all, everybody, get the stereo app on your phone. It's free.

Look us up. Buy our name. Stray Crowder, Drew Morgan, Corey, R, Forrest. and join us on Fridays on Stereo at 12 Pacific 3 Eastern for a little active party good time. And as always, we appreciate it. Oh, sorry. And don't forget, they are live, but they're also recorded.

You can listen to old shows right now. Get the app right now if you want. Yep. So with that said, we'll see you back next week, and the show will return at said time. So, yeah. So you love you by. Skiw. You.

They're the. but sex they care way too much but don't give a fun they're the liberal rednecks that makes some people upset but they got three big old dicks that you can suck