wellRED podcast - Prisons and China

Episode Date: January 14, 2026

 Well the title pretty much gets it across, as on this week's Cho-less episode Trae and Drew talk about every white trash American's favorite two subjects: prison and China (there's some other stuff too). Spoilers: Prison don't hit; China...does hit? Don't hit? Who's to say. Certainly not these two idiots. Enjoy.   Go to HelloFresh.com/wellred10fm to Get 10 free meals + a FREE Zwilling Knife (a $144.99 value) on your third box. 

Well, here we are. Well-read Nation. It's a Cholus edition of Well-Red this week. Don't know what he's doing. Traditionist is shit on the absent member up top, but I didn't get enough information on him. He's going to Lake Tahoe soon, but he's not there yet. And that's funny to me.

He's never been on a ski trip before. I haven't either. But like 38-year-old Corey on his first-ever ski trip, I bet some ravenry will transpire, I'm imagining. Oh, that's interesting. I didn't realize that was the, you know, I just did not snowboarding for the first time. And I've been skiing a bunch, but I just did snowboarding lessons with Brian who had never snowboarded. And the instructor's opening line was going around, oh, hey, what's your name, what you know, what's your name?

To Brian. Oh, you're my 41-year-old. Yeah. Who was it? Somebody. Maybe it was even somebody this weekend at the shows I did or something who had listened to. the episode where Corey said he was going. I think that's what it was because I was in Sacramento, which is not far from Lake Tahoe. And somebody up there was saying like, he just shouldn't do it at

this point. Like they were like, they were like you, if you've never been by the time you're in your late 30s, just accept that it's a thing that you don't do because it's not, you know, amenable in that way like other things are. It's good way to get hurt, I think. Yeah, for sure. Tahoe. Like Brian was taking a lesson on a bunny hill. Right. Like he did get, hurt in the sense that he fell on his butt a lot. Yeah. I fell a couple times, too, just being there. But I think I somewhat disagree with that person for two reasons.

One, Corey'll just stop. I know. Well, when I said Ravenry, that's what I'm actually expecting. It's not like any of it's going to be. I'm imagining him giving it the old college try a time or two. It not hitting him not being super receptive to. direction or anything, getting like defensive about it, and then spending the rest of the time in like the lodge or whatever, you know, just like drinking whiskey and fucking threading shit

with, you know, in our group chat and whatnot. But it could, you know, play out in a way that would be humorous if I was there. But I won't be. So I just have to play it out in my head. And then number two, it's skiing, right? Not snowboarding? I think so, yeah. It's not.

He's not not athletic. Right. There's an injury. quotient as you age, but I don't think he's like aged out of learning how to ski. Is he taking lessons? I don't know that either.

But Brian, I mean, Brian's athletic too, right? You said him doing that because Corey's like, he's like, he doesn't have that kind of toxic. He'll just be like, yeah, I needed a lesson. That guy hits. Tell me how to hit. Yeah. As opposed to like, I'll fucking figure it out, boy.

Yeah, I know. I just feel like being fine. Maybe with something like that, he wouldn't be this. I just feel like, I'm trying to think of examples of where I've heard Corey B told in any fashion. I don't care how diplomatic that he has done something incorrect, right? And I've never seen him not fucking, you know, raving out about it in some way.

Even if he's like, look, I can accept that. That's fine. But you can see where I was coming. You can understand why I thought that that would be the thing. I've never seen him just like taking in stride, be like, okay, I'll do it better this time or whatever. always has to have at least a little bit of a miniature meltdown. I just feel like that's been in times of where he thought he knew what he was doing and then he was in right.

You could be right. It might be different. As opposed to we're in a class and we're all falling. He knows he doesn't know how to do it. Yeah, right. That could be. And Brian and I thought we'd be the only grownups there. And there were almost, they were probably more than there were kids.

And so my point is he's with other grownups who also don't know what they're doing. And here's the final thing I was going to say about it. And that's why I asked skiing. Right. And so, like, supposedly once you get the basics down, snowboarding is easier. But in terms of getting the basis down, it's not even close. And that's something I've experienced myself. It is actually very, skiing is logical.

Like, the things that you do to turn and slow down, your brain already kind of grasps as a person who walks upright. Right. So that's like, I could. see you know Tahoe's a big mountain but I could see him finding a lift that goes to an easy hill you go at not that quick of a pace across things instead of down one of the big ones you take it easy and then if you can't really figure out how to stop just kind of lay down and you'll just scoot and the powder's probably going to be really soft there I think he's going to hit now I think he's going to quit after an hour and a half regardless of any of that

because it's exhausting and he's going to go take a nap and drink a handle of literally quicker. But the report will be, no, I hit at it, son. Yeah, I'm sure, yeah, I have no doubt that will be the report, probably. Tahoe, you said, oh, he's going to Tahoe, not a, but they don't have like bunny slopes at Tahoe. Any place you can ski, they don't have. They will, yeah, you'll probably have to, you'd probably have to have a lesson, you know, to be allowed on it. Like, it probably like, oh, we teach lessons here. Is that what you want, sir? But every place will have, I'm I'm trying to remember all the, I think it's green circle is the easiest one.

I bet he can easily stay on green circles and hit. And like, dude, when I've been to big places, a lot of the big places will have the blues and the blacks coming down. And the greens will sort of s back and forth. It is better, in my opinion. Like, if you're not on some adrenaline shit, you're completely in control, your cruise. I mean, you see a lot of people who go all the time staying on those. I just feel like he could, I can easily see him hitting at this. I can easily see him not pushing through what it requires to, to hit at this.

Yeah. I guess I just, in my mind is like, again, if it, if he don't immediately hit at it, and especially if someone is there trying to correct that, I could just see him being, it playing out comments. Who's he going on is all I'm saying? I don't know, Amber's family or his, I don't know, something like that. Do they ski? I don't know that either. I don't know anything.

If he's gone with Amber's family, who he only sees twice a year and they ski, no, I'm fully in your camp. Yeah. Because now there's an embarrassment. There's a being watched factor. And by the way, your fan in Sacramento, whether they thought of it this way or not, this is what they were describing. They're describing someone who goes skiing with friends who know how to ski. and when you try to keep up with them and you get hurt.

Right. Does in the summertime is Lake Tahoe more like stuff? Or is it just, it's nothing in the summertime? No, it's like stuff. Okay. I mean, for people who live there,

in terms of visitors, I think visitors hike, you can rent boats. It's not like, the culture's not like Salina that I know of. It's not like houseboat culture. Well, no shit. I know that because like fancy people go there.

Yeah, it's yachts and stuff. So like I've been there in the summer not just to visit, like for to do a show or whatever it was and like or I'm nearby and I drive there because it's gorgeous. People hike. The mountains turn into like winter or summer event. Like you can mountain bike. Some of them will have like for lack of a better thing to call it a roller coaster thing that goes. So there's stuff to do there in the summer. I was, again, I was just in Sacramento. We didn't go to Tahoe, obviously. It's like three hours away still, and I chose to do. But it does remind me of something I want to ask you about, because you've been knowing about these things,

these things being prisons specifically. Folsom? Right. So I did not, A, I'd never really thought about where Folsom even was geographically. It never really occurred to me to think about where it was geographically. but it makes sense because, you know, he shot him in Reno and Reno's also very close to there. But, you know, anyway.

But what I definitely didn't know is what Folsom, the town that the prison is in is like because, and this is what I'm getting at, there's a prison where Katie's from and some other ones that I'm familiar with. In my mind, generally prisons are put in places that are like otherwise not great. I realize that a major city will have to have a prison. Like there's Rikers Island, which isn't a prison. It's like a jail, right?

And then San Francisco used to have Alcatraz, but hasn't in years. But like, I just think of like the bleakest most out of the way. Nothing else is going on shit you can imagine. But Folsom, if you've never been, is like lovely. It's like, you know, northern California, white people, hot, crunchy hiking trail, river, beautiful bridges type place, but also there's this prison there. And I just thought

I found that either interesting or surprising or whatever because it's not I didn't think that that dynamic was something that, you know, you ran into very often. So I definitely think it's more rare. I want to say a couple things. One, and we talked about this when we were torn, we'd see signs for it.

We'd probably hashed this out on this podcast before, but it's worth saying the song actually does not make sense. if he shot a man in Reno, that's in Nevada. So he'd be in Nevada? Yeah, I never, but... He's in a state prison in Folsom.

Okay. Because we talked about this and I looked it up. I said, well, maybe it's a federal prison. Sometimes you get federal murder. There's various ways you could get federal murder. But Folsom's a state prison. The answer to your other inquiry, lest we be murdered at the stake for questioning Johnny Cash and his biggest hit.

Well, and I think what conclusion we came to is like, well, look, dude, criminals be crime and you know he's just grabbed what happened in arena other stuff yeah because it's the thing he feels the worst about right he did some shit in california he ain't even sad about he don't feel guilty at all about that right anyway uh prisons are built in out of the way places for a few reasons one land is cheap two oftentimes those places don't have a lot of things going on economically. So they're like a welcoming

to convince them to Yeah, this is a good thing. This is jobs or whatever and people buy that. Yeah, right. And then three.

And then three, it's hard to get a prison elsewhere because they don't, you can't convince them with the two things I just said and they don't want one. So it's less than less than a feature. It's just easier to overcome the bug.

The bug being we don't want a fucking prison here. Right. All right. Well, Folsom. I just, it opened in 1880. Like, your point stands, but like, that's not what was going on then. Yeah. And then fucking, I don't know, beaver trappers and, uh, prospectors and shit.

Just like sexually assaulting people in box cars and stuff, fighting over beans with knives and shit like that. We're just like prospecting while black. Yeah. Yeah. So, but my point being like, it wasn't what it is. is now, but also in Tennessee, I think there's four, I think, main state prisons, and they are outside of Memphis, outside of Nashville, outside of Knoxville, which is in my county I grew up in. And that's Fruci Mountain?

It's now called Morgan County Correctional, but it was originally Brushy Mountain. It's at a slightly different site. It's like across the hauler from where Brushin is. So they can hear the concert from their prison that's at their old prison. It's a concert hall now for people who don't know. And then the other one is in Mountain City outside of Bristol, right? So all these places are near the city, but they're not. They're all an hour from Nashville, 45-ish from Memphis.

I think Memphis is probably the closest, which, hey, surprise, all right? Well, Mountain City's gorgeous. I'll never, I mean, I understand, but I won't ever really get over. my brother not trying harder to keep the situation what it was there. He was at annex. None of that matters. My point is like they had a garden in the annex he was in and it was the mountains. That town is pretty,

but I don't think it was when they built his prison in this. I'm not saying I don't think it was pretty. I don't think it was a big, it didn't have any clout when they built his prison in the 70s and 80s. There weren't enough of a population to stop it. Yeah. And it was chosen for its relative proximity to the interstate. I forgot about Bledsoe.

That's the other one and it's outside of Chattanooga. All of these are 45 to an hour from a place. So it's far enough off the interstate that they don't have to worry about someone escaping. These are other factors they consider, right? My point being is we grew up where they have these prisons and it was easy for them to get them there because we were desperate for jobs and blah, blah, blah, blah. and people would buy the lie, hook line, and sinker. A, that's not the only factor.

B, some rural places are pretty, and eventually if you're pretty enough, the crunchies might... They find you. Turn you into a destination or whatever. That is my theory and explanation. Whereas if, on the other hand, they tried now, like we hit a button,

Folsom never existed, and someone goes, this would be a good place to a prison just geographically. I bet that... Right. Yeah, because like, for people that don't, California is wild because there's parts of it. There's places like, no disrespect to these places, but there's places like 29 palms, which sounds like a lovely beach place. It's not. Then there's like needles, California, which sounds, so I'm saying, there's like, there's parts of California where I, you know, I could see a prison being is what I'm saying. They're pretty like desolate and shit. And, uh, and so if you had just said, what do you imagine, Folsom, California, where the prison is, is like, I would have assumed it was a 29

palms needlesy type place instead of being like fucking picturesque postcardi shit, which it is, because I just went there this weekend. So I just thought that was neat. But it's also, maybe part of it's a California thing just in as far as like, like so much of California hits like that most of the places you go hit. Yeah, where up north is it? Yeah, those other places I named her in the desert part, you know, the northern part, California, there's like, I don't know where you find a place up there that don't hood. Right. Sorry I interrupted you.

You cut out and then you broke up. But I did catch the gist of what you're saying. And yeah, I think that northern California, outside of the area where the redwoods are where it's straight up outlaw country, and it's pretty there too. it's pretty everywhere and it's some money everywhere at this point. Right. Yeah, like even I feel like Sacramento, I think a lot of people are people on the West Coast and stuff, I feel like it don't have the best reputation in my mind.

But to me, it's also like the surrounding area and everything. Like there's, you know, it's pretty awesome. And like you said, there's definitely a lot of money there. There's fucking traffic everywhere up there too. It's just like, I don't know, California, just California, be California. I guess. But this is only slightly related. You remind me, though, you're like,

something doesn't make sense. Shot a guy in Reno. Now he's in a California state prison, but maybe it was a federal thing. I saw this interview, speaking of like prisons and stuff, so I'm sure you know about ADX, Florence, which is in Colorado,

and it's one of our, it's like our number one Super Max, federal prison. It's where, like, El Chapo is. And the Bar-Nev or whatever, the Boston Marathon, Bomber, Ted Kaczynski was there, and guys like that get put there in Florence and color.

Again, also middle of fucking nowhere, out with nothing, you know, very nondescript, nothing else going on. But the point of this is I saw an interview other day with the guy who's out now, but he was a, he spent like a couple years in Florida. He ended his sentence in Florence and what he was arrested for and what he got, you know, ended up, how he ended up there, the thing he got arrested for was during the,

he lived in Minneapolis. what was the place in Missouri with the race stuff before George Floyd? Yes, Ferguson. He lived there. He lived in St. Louis or something. And he's like an against me left-wing anarchists, like admittedly. And he, uh, during those Ferguson, um, proceedings, going zones, kerfuffles, he threw a Molotov cocktail into a federal building.

And, you know, what, you know, what are you going to do? You'll have that. But I think it was like, I don't think it was like, I don't think, Anyone was in anything like that. He's out now. But he threw a Molotov cocktail into it. He's a white guy too for the record. He did on camera. Right.

Through a Molotov cocktail into a federal building. He was like, I'm about to do this, and I know they're going to arrest me. And he ended up in the same prison with fucking El Chapo. And was in there during like the Biden administration and shit too, by the way. Yeah. Again, not that that part's surprising either. Well, Mama's who sent him to Ferguson. Right.

Yeah. So, I just, I mean, how do you, well, in the interview, he explained, he said the way that they justified it. So, you know, one of the things that get you sent there is if you're like a higher up in a massive criminal organization, if you're like the dude for the bloods or a biker gang or something or Trinday, Aragua or whatever, or they say you are, that can justify sending you there. and he says that they claim that he was essentially, I don't even think they had the word Antifa at that time, but basically they were like, this guy's like a colonel in Antique, like a leader in basically Antifa,

and they used that to justify sending him to, you know, the worst prison that we have in this country or whatever, which I just thought was pretty fucking wild. It's very, ain't that America. Don't get me wrong, but I mean, shoot, way. That's some shit. Did he say it was the worst? he seemed like it super did not hit for him yeah

I mean he definitely I know that it's meant to be the highest security which oftentimes can be the worst because you don't get out much you don't get to do you right and that's the way he described it yeah I think it is kind of like you start to go fucking crazy because you're like super isolated and well no it's like impossible for anyone to come visit you but also because of the max designation

it's like 23 hours lockdown a day and then they can make it 24-hour lockdown if all these various parameters, if any one of them are met. So they can just claim that they need to lock things down for 24 hours a day all the time. And they do. Major spoiler coming up, and I'll go ahead and tell everyone what the major spoilers for. If you want to stop it, I'll give you a moment to do so. Better call Saul. Better call Saul.

Major spoiler. Stop right now if you haven't seen it and you want to. That is where he sent. if you remember, and part of his deal was he was supposed to go to some sweetheart place, I don't remember what, the Martha Stewart prison. And he ends up in Colorado

because the DA hates him, and I can't remember exactly how he gets screwed. I think he goes back on the deal because he was supposed to give up. I don't remember. Anyway, or is it read or?

Yeah. I'm not sure, but It's one, R-A-G-A, Rio Rea, Seahorn, however you'd say it. But anyway, if anyone is familiar with that, the director's name. Anyone who is familiar with that show, it's kind of, it's used then as a plot device as like, damn, this dude really blew it.

You know, this is the fate almost worse than death for Osall here. He's way out here. No one can come see him, and he's locked up all the time. So I always thought it was bad because of the isolation, and that is bad. But I've always felt prisons or worse because you get stabbed. But I guess it's a dealer's choice. Yeah, yeah. No, I know.

I remember that was another surprising conversation for me that we had on the podcast over the years, is I made some crack about federal, you know, getting fucked in federal prison or something. and you being like, well, the federal prisons are actually oftentimes, you know, like better or what. And I remember being like, what? I didn't know, because again, it's, you know, you're federally fuck now. Federal fuck you in the ass prison. All these quotes from movies and shit I'd heard over the years. But when you actually think about it, it does make sense, you know.

Like federal prison versus like a fucking Louisiana state prison or something. Like, shoo-wee. Yeah, they're just, they're run differently. And I think there's more spotlight on them. and then for whatever reason, I'm not saying there's no gangs there, and I'm not saying there's no gang control there, but they're not, quote, unquote, ran by the gangs like the others,

is my understanding. The other thing, though, that I'm not as certain about that, hey, maybe we could have my brother around and he could tell us. The other thing I am certain of, part of the rep of, like, federal fuck you in the ass prison comes from criminals and criminal movies where they're like, you don't want the feds after you because you will get more time.

and if they charge you, they're probably going to get you because they won't charge you unless they have it. Right. And so there is like a sense of if you're charged by the feds, you're fucked. But prison,

my understanding is from the clients I've had over the years who are facing an either or for various crimes, it was like, I'll say whatever this DA wants me to say, I'll sign every fucking crime that he's throwing at me

as long as my time does not exceed, what the feds are going to give me and I can do it all there. And I mean to a man, I can't think of a single time where someone wasn't like, no, let's do the state. And some of these people were in gangs. So in theory, they could go in and have it, not have it made, but like have their people in the state. They want to go fed every time. It's like, again, Florence may be the exception, but it's like better food, right, more equipment, less violence.

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Prison. Don't hit, no. But, you know, when it comes to organizing finances or organizing anything for that matter, I am absolutely horrible at it. I get insane anxiety. And it feels like we're paying for more and more stuff.

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that'll help me with the video and blah, blah, blah. I had used it once. Or it was a free trial and I let it slip and there you go, right? And I needed help and my wife is only so good. She's great, but she's not an app that was designed specifically to help this thing and Rocket Money. And, is Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. It is absolutely fantastic and it's all there and it's so easy to understand and use. And you know that already because I, Corey Ryan Forster, use it and I'm a dumb dumb. Okay.

So let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. join at rocketmoney.com slash well-read. That's rocketmoney.com slash well-read. Rocketmoney.com slash well-read. I don't know what else to say about that. Do you think that, like, would you go full blood? Well, I don't know. You might be a...

Sweden prisons, right? Like the prisons in the Yorg and Forgan places. First of all, do you know if that's an accurate representation that people get, Americans get on the internet. Because every time, you know, it always gets shared periodically. This is how they live in Sweden prisons. And it looks like a, like a, not just a dorm, like better than American dorm rooms, right? That type of thing.

And so then American conservatives are like, you know, what's wrong with that hellhole? And then other people are like, oh, yeah, this is we should be doing this? But like, is that an accurate representation of how they do it? Or is that kind of also bullshit and also like, you know does that head harder well i do know that whatever they're doing works better by any metric right they have less recidivism they have lower crime rates in general um so like all the reasons to make like prison miserable right it's like uh okay is scare people not to do crime their crime rate is much lower than ours uh okay well another reason to make it miserable is

if you punish people they won't ever want to come back there we have people come back at much higher rate well really scaring people's the only way to like shake them up and get them to change their rate of like you know people who want to join the job force or whatever I know all that's higher because I checked all that

like when that was like a meme and to be honestly it's weird and maybe this is my own bias I never even thought to check if that was part was true I do know that they treat prison very differently there. It's not meant to be a punishment as much as it's meant to be a reformation project. And I do know that at least on paper, it's working. I guess because of that, I assumed

the other stuff was true. Because if they're like, we've really figured it out over here, we're reforming them and they're just like stabbing people while they live in their own shit. And then I'd be like, well, I guess I got to rethink everything I thought I believed. Yeah. I just know, Another thing that gets passed around a lot on American, American internet is like pictures of Tehran, Tehran, Iran in the 70s. And it looks like pictures of America in the 70s the way they're all dressed. There's no hijabs.

There's none of that stuff. This is what happened for the Islamic Revolution. And I don't know the veracity of those either, but I've seen other people online. So these are at least a little bit misleading because what they never mentioned is that everybody you see in these pictures is like the 1% of Iran at that time. this is not what most people look like. Now look, today, even like, you know,

some of the like more affluent people and stuff over there, it ain't, you can't just be like this or whatnot. But still, so anyway, I just never know if like, well, we. But do you ever catch this in the comments? We also, if not caused, spurred the revolution on in an attempt to get someone in power who we could control. I have so that's 100% our fault.

Well, yeah, because what happened right is that we put the Shah in place. He was Western friendly and let us just walk all over them and stuff. But then he didn't hit for the people. So they overthrew him and like overcorrect. I guess not whatever. Accurate. They swung the other way and replaced him with like the Ayatollah and the Mullahs. And the Islamic Revolution was in response to us installing a government that did not hit for the people there.

definitely our own fault. Well, installing a government that controlled the oil, I mean, just like the Aetola does, to be fair, and then allowed the people to have none of the fruits of that. I mean, you said it, a puppet, but I want to be very clear for people listening like what was going on. The people in those pictures were by any moral compass, the bad guys, 90% of the time, or at least their children or like cousins in the sense that like, yeah, they sold out. Shah's people or whatever. They were the ones that were good with that regime. They sold out or were willing to line themselves with the people who sold out the whole country

so that a few could get rich. I mean, and, you know, to be fair to America, that is kind of what we do here. Yeah, a whole other country. Where you had on China, by the way, and that's a big question. What I mean is like... It's a very big question. Yeah. Do you think China gets too much like shit, like...

Oh, like it's way too much. much shit in the mainstream. I think it gets way too much credit in leftist circles. Right. Okay. Right. Because I think what a lot of people don't know just as one stupid example, but like American exceptionalism, we think we hit it everything and people think like we got the

best whatever, you know, just you, we got Elon here and so electric vehicles and that type of shit. But I saw a dude reviewing a Chinese electric vehicle, you know, like a 2025, because I saw this a few months ago, Chinese model electric vehicle. And it was like a fucking spaceship. like nothing you can even get over here. And they had so much more just advanced infrastructure and shit, at least in their cities and stuff and that type of thing that people don't realize.

But then also whatever, you know, it is still a regime that you don't want to start no shit with and everything. So I guess it's a complicated China. I know that's a, that's going out on a limb by categorizing that way. But I think that China might be complex and nuanced as a subject. But I just wonder what you think. as a, they are a they're a brutal imperialistic regime dedicated to

doing a version of colonialism that in turn helps a lot of their people. And it's a sort of we have ironically, I know I have stated numerous times, I mean, if we're going to fucking murder babies in Gaza, can I please get some health care? Yeah, for sure.

That is a, They crude and very basic way of like describing what China kind of does. It's like they are they are raping Africa the way we rape South America. 100% but they're building them hospitals. So Africa is like, man, you're so much better than our past rapists. First of all, they were French and we didn't like that because who does. And then second of all, they didn't build no hospitals. Thank you very much.

Yeah. And they just chopped all the kids hands off. Right. And then also back in China, they bring all the minerals from Africa. And they're like, hey, guys, y'all are going to get a lot more of this wealth than we will. Yeah, because we right at this country. I can't speak beyond generalizations about the mechanism of how their one-party system works. But I do know for a fact that that one party has changed greatly numerous times since the 60s.

and Chinese defenders often throw to that as a sort of like, hey, you guys got two parties and they're not on your team and they've only served the 1% at least since the 70s. Since the 70s, we've had three or four major or minor huge changes in our one party so that that one party would get in line and represent the people. Now that's rife with half-truths and assumptions. What I can definitely say is that if you want to say who's like the average Chinese loyalist citizen versus the average American loyalist citizen who's doing better if we're talking about like stuff or health care or housing or whatever, I mean, it's like almost 10 out of 10 that they're beating this. right and but now if you're if you're like someone who doesn't like what they're doing because of whatever reason

i mean here's one example now this happened to an american so i think it's slightly different but he was living over there there's a there's a comedian i know who's lived over there uh i was that this episode when you or this show when you weren't here or was it p i brought that because we talked about this on early actually that guy told that story on this podcast right but it was way way long ago and super early on. But we... The ice cream guy? Yeah.

Crazy. But yeah, he taught, he, we interviewed him on well read and he told that story on here. Well, I mean, that was fucking almost 10 years ago now. It was very... Well, and he was my buddy, too. So I guess, like, for me, it was like, I remember the story. And I don't, I'm kind of glad that I don't remember my life as a job. You know what I mean?

No, I tell people that story all the time. Anytime, like, anytime it's remotely relevant at all. Because I think, isn't he still over there? And he does still, like, bun and off shows and stuff. because like, I know, I like, I'll meet a guy right now and it's like, yeah, I think I'm going to go do some couple shows in China and they'll say like it's booked by this dude. And I'll, you know, and then I'll just be like, yeah, you know the story about the fucking ice cream trucks or whatever, you know. So it comes up a lot because that shit was crazy.

But I guess we should at least do a brief rehashing of it now because there's going to be a lot of people who are like, what the fuck are y'all talking about? So go ahead. So his wife is from there. He's over there at least part of the time in his life. He's doing comedy and all that. He starts a business. It's successful when the government takes it. I mean, there's like, that's the bluntest and easiest way to frame it and say it.

And then he was like, what the hell? And there's no recourse for him to do it. Literally nothing he can do. Yeah, right. Now, to be clear, and I'm not saying they wouldn't have done this, but to be clear, he didn't like invent a new ice cream. It wasn't like that. It was just, I think it was ice cream trucks.

Is that right? He said the way I remember it is he was over there, you know, married a Chinese woman, whatever. And he would have been living on there for some amount of time. And one day, he was like, he remembered as a kid. Something made him think about ice cream trucks. And he was like, wait a minute. I don't think they have ice cream trucks in China.

And then he noticed that at least at that time, they did not have ice cream trucks in China. So he, like, introduced the concept of ice cream trucks to China and never believe this. And they introduced the concept of communism to him. Yeah, right. But it took off. Like, it was immediately successful because, of course it was, because ice cream trucks hit,

especially if they're, like, new to people. And it was going great. He had, like, a fleet of trucks. I think he had, like, 50 fucking trucks or something. And then they just showed up at his door one day and were like, hey this is all hours now thanks for building this up appreciate it but we're taking it you get nothing and they just took it all from him and walk and i don't i'm not even saying this to defend him i'm just to make to give to give context i don't think if he were a chinese citizen it would have happened quite

like that right but close but close to it but at the same time i mean he was already paying them and he said this so much in taxes anyway so he was sort of like what do you okay have the rest of it I guess. I don't even know where I was going with, whatever I was saying that. We were talking about, you were just saying, like,

I think you were just given, like, now on the other hand, about China, you were just saying, like, most of their citizens one to one are like better off.

And then I think you were just like, however they also do shit like this. Yeah, but if you're a citizen who has this exceptional plan and idea, they can and may take that from you. Right. And that is at the heart of what

capitalism versus, communism has been on a very basic level for some time. Obviously, at a more complicated level, people have pointed out numerous, like, you know, there's all those pictures of like, if we have communism, this is what it'll look like here. And it's a picture of what it looks like here. Right. You know, and it'll be like, no one can afford. And it's like, no one can afford. Like all of the things I was warned communism would produce, capitalism has produced.

Yeah. And then I look at a place like China that's been successful with. their version of half-communism, half-capitalism, to be fair. And you go, oh, that's not, they don't have homeless as much. Everyone owns a home. People are eating, but you can't be Steve Jobs. You can't. Now, that doesn't mean there has been some Chinese billionaires, though.

I don't know how it works. I don't understand. Probably, I would assume, or connected in some way or something you would think, you know, like some kind of. Yeah, I don't know. Well, it's like. But I don't know either. I don't, yeah.

But it's like a macro country level version of like what like gangsters used to do in the neighborhood and hand out turkeys and shit like that or whatever. You know what I mean? Where it's like I know and like in the areas where Pablo Escobar operated like a lot of people I think like loved them and shit. You know, because he like took care of people. And that the only pushback I'll give you is that the government exists to give the people turkeys. And I know that like and I know that I'm a leftist like and I have a leftist view of the world. like that is its job is to figure out how to get people to turkey. And so if they figured out a way to get more people turkey,

we can't pretend like that's not true. We can say, yeah, but they did it by taking the guy who figured out how to grow all the turkeys, turkeys. Yeah, they did. That is in fact the most efficient way to get more people turkeys. Right. Yeah. But I thought, I thought when you were talking about what they're doing in Africa and shit,

and it's like, you know, but. For sure. That's gangster. That's imperial gangsterism. Right, yeah. And they're beating us at it. Right. Because it turns out giving people turkeys is better than stepping on their neck and taking all their turkeys.

Yeah, that hits for them more. Right. It's for them way more. They'll go along with more shit if you're just like taking care. Military mind is literally the only reason we are at all, like, competing with China in general. Because like we take things, our might keeps our resources on our, side. Well, that's why we have to invest.

In Greenland, Venezuela. I mean, it's all coming to ahead now. That's why we have to invest so much in AIDRA. That's why it's important that we get more money to Silicon Valley, Peter Thiel, and then because of what you just said,

you yourself said and agree with it. We barely are even keeping up with China anymore. And, you know, we've got to try something, obviously. So, thank God we've handed over the range to Donald Trump and his cronies and Peter Thiel and his cronies. Yeah. And it's especially funny when even if you bought the AI,

the future argument. It's like, all right, well, which horse are you betting on? Right. Peter Thiel or China. Right. We're talking about tech. We're talking about resources needed to maintain that stuff. We're talking about, I mean, let's be honest with this,

this is a big knock on China, and it's true, not giving a fuck about the environmental cost of something like that. Right. Yep. We're going to lose. Yeah, well, then what happens? We'll have Greenland. That's something. But even when we lose, what do they... Unless you're willing to go to war with us.

Or, you know, like, how, like... They're going to take our stuff, like, they're already starting to overtake areas that we don't want them to, and then we're going to go to war, and our empire will crumble trying to sustain itself. Mm-hmm. part of the play with Venezuela and to some extent Greenland is the only way to maintain the Middle East is to continue to prop up Israel, which is becoming both morally in the eyes of your voters, but also economically kind of unviable. The only reason it's working so far is that sometimes I get confused. I don't know if it's because I'm racist or stupid. I think it's Saudi Arabia is actually technically on our team.

They are, yeah. That's my, well, I mean, that's my understanding is that yes. You mean in terms of the Israel stuff. Yeah. Well, and also it's in terms of they want us there, not China. Right. That's my understanding. Yeah.

Yeah, that can tap like, you know, they can change in an instant. I don't know, man. I mean, this is, I mean, I do have a degree in it, but this is also genuinely over my current level of reading. I have a, I have a bachelor's understanding of how world politics works, but a father's understanding of what's going on in the world right now, which is I glance at it. I read headlines. I say something wild of mark or see how he'll respond. Then I kind of gauge the truth based on that.

And then, you know, it's funny, but it's true. I listen to DJ. Because DJ's listening to insane people sometimes, yes, but also sane people sometimes who are at the forefront. I mean, DJ was telling me about the hoothies before anyone was bringing up the hoothies. And then fast forward, two to three weeks later, Fox and CNN are talking about the hoothies and how they're problem for his

so Matt producer Matt of weekly skews tells us he I don't remember what he's obviously you know Matt his day job

is in political organizing and shit and he worked on like the Harris campaign just real quick to balance that out though also what people know DJ

also listen to a man named Dr. China who well that's not his name that's what DJ calls him and Dr. China is always talking about how

um extreme factions of the Israeli government want to recreate a relit. It's really hard for me to... I mean, DJ says it to me like, this dude's wild.

Anyway, go ahead. My point being is he's up on the Houthis, but he's also up on sort of the Alex Jones of Israel. But what Matt says, he has all these connections in D.C. and stuff in various levels. And he has a guy that he knows some dude. I don't remember if the dude,

he works at some think tank or something like that or consultancy or some shit. but they're like whatever. And they're trying to, obviously, because Matt's a big lefty, these people are trying to like, whatever, push back or counterbalance or, you know, they're on the side of the left in some capacity. But my point is Matt says all the time that he'll talk to this guy about shit that Matt hears from Mark, right?

And the dude, the DC dude also don't know about it or whatever. And definitely should, right? But Mark somehow do. and then a week or two later, now it's like a thing that they're talking about at the office he works at or something when Mark was on it before. And I don't know how either Mark or DJ. I mean,

I guess it's not that hard to figure out where to look. I just don't care to because I have Mark. It takes a lot of work. And I have them both, I guess, to some extent. So it's, I mean,

the answer is the internet. And then a willingness or ability to sift through both in terms of the source, like whatever channel or journalist you're getting it from. And then each time, that journalist or channel presents something, sift through the bullshitters from the real ones,

and then present it, whereas in D.C. They have built-in filters. It, by design, takes a little longer because it's probably more accurate that way. There's less risk involved, I assume. Or maybe it's just like things don't change in a place like D.C.

So they do it the way they've always done it. And no one other than the CIA is looking close. into what's going on on these YouTube channels. And maybe that's how the CIA wants it, because it keeps them ahead of the curb from people like whoever Matt's buddy is. I don't know what he does, but...

I can't even remember either. I mean, I could find out, but I don't... Yeah. Because the other thing that Mark says, that's related to this, you were just saying, I guess he also does is he's like, people like that or just normies, regular people, whatever.

He's like, they don't understand. He's like, you can't figure out where things are headed, especially with this administration and stuff, by just using the same sources that have always been there, whatever. He was like, people don't realize like the craziest parts of the internet, the right-wing internet and stuff especially, you know, is like that's the vanguard for a lot of these motherfuckers, you know?

It's like it starts there. Yeah, right. And then it becomes actual policy and shit like that, where it seems like fringe stuff, you know, initially or would to most people, but it's like all real. Well, dude. Alice Jones is such an interesting test case for all this. And for every Sandy Hook was a hoax thing he's done,

there's like three. He said it wildly, but he was kind of right here things. I mean, that's just true. I don't care what, if people are listening or throwing their beers in their living room right now, it doesn't matter. This is a fact.

I don't know what the ratio is. Maybe I'm off on the ratio. But I saw something the other day that I thought was funny and so true, and it kind of gets into what we're talking about with the self-fulfilling prophecy type stuff. A pedophile is in charge of everything and is seemingly in an attempt to cover up his pedophilic ways, running a bunch of defense for an ethno state. Right. ran by people who at least identify as a Jewish ethno state.

You know, God, what's the word I'm looking for, divinely guided policy. Right. Yeah, theocracy. Because they are blackmailing him through his pedophilia. And also masked men are murdering American citizens. Right. How tragic must it be for Alex Jones to finally be correct about everything,

but it be his boy. Right. Yeah. Mark brings that up all the time. He's like, this should be Alex Jones's like shining moment. You know what I mean? Because like you just said, it's like, dude, this is exactly the type of shit you would scream about this all time.

It's happening. You would have been right, except like you said, you're on the side of it. So you have to question him in too because you preached, you screamed about how this was going to happen and it's been happening. And then you brought the guy in who was like, well, I won't let it happen. And everyone warned you. with Trump this was always the problem it's like it's not just that we as left us don't like what he's saying

we were trying we didn't do a great job of this because it's hard to with some of these people but we were trying to say to the right but also even if you like what he's saying can you not see he doesn't mean it right like how can you not see he'll say that he's not that he's not an interventionist because he wants you to like him and he might continue to not be an interventionist

if he continues to want you to like him. But when someone who wants him to be an interventionist comes in and either convinces him that they're more powerful or more popular or have more money, he'll go with them. And that's what we're seeing now. Yeah. And this amalgamation of like Silicon Valley

and their interests in Project 2025 as a mechanism to get what they want. And then like insane right wing, kind of what, DJ was sending me the Dr. China description. I mean, again, I got to stop. The guy hasn't fucking name, and he just happens to be Chinese and a professor.

But that dude's crazy. It was why I brought him up because it's funny. But what he's essentially saying is there are extreme religious extremists who have too much power. That's happening here too. Oh, my God. Yeah. And that marriage of Silicon Valley.

It's pretty fraught, though, isn't it? I mean, they don't. It's what? A bit fraught, isn't it? Super fraught. We have a real good chance on their side is that yeah, you've got like the

whatever, the fucking nihilist tech bro motherfuckers who want to turn us all into robot slaves or whatnot. And then you have the people who want to bring the fucking end times back for the return of Jesus and shit. And they have it like a tenuous. And it's why they're feeding Joe Rogan's shit and he's saying

things like, well, what if Jesus' return is AI? That's directly now they don't feed it to him. You can't get Rogan in my opinion. you can't be like, hey, man, we need you to go say this. Here's a million dollars. It's more like, we think you're great. Here's a million dollars.

Man, you're so awesome. Here's a million dollars. Hey, dude, you want to hear something wild? Yeah, right. And it's like wild, how easy it is to play them. But what was I going to say? Oh, we're going to win. I don't want anyone to mistake my own cynicism for like,

these people are so defeatable. The problem is there's two. One is like so many people are going to die in fighting them. I mean, it's already happening. This isn't conjecture. USAID ending has killed estimates of 400 to 800,000 people last I checked, right? So, like, I don't mean like, I think they're going to, people are already dying because of what's happening. It's not like guns being shot well.

It is to the Renee good, but you understand what I'm saying. It's all right. That's not hypothetically. People are already dying. And then the second issue is this the nukes. I mean, the nukes are always the issue. Right. When there's not adults in charge, there's always.

like a fear of it just takes one chain of events to lead to nuclear winter and then none of this matters. You know, you and I no longer live in the same country. Like literally, you know, and we're going to end up having, if not warlords. I mean, you know, you understand

it like now we're getting insane, but that's how insane nuclear winter would be. And also a lot of us would be dead. Statistically, at least one of the three of us. Okay. That sounds like a good place to end to me. Happy New Year to everybody. Looking forward to 2026 here at well red i do have to go we both have to go because of the fact that i have

to go so thanks for listening go to tray crow crowder dot com and come see me on the road the next shows i ever spartanberg and wilmington and then after that there's birmingham and a whole bunch of other places already listed all at traycrouter dot com check it out uh cori and i have a show in athens georgia on february 15th closing out heathens weekend of the drive-by truckers mike Cooley, the mysterious, I would argue, co-frontman of the drive-by truckers is hosting. He's very excited about it. I did not know if he would say yes, and I didn't know if he'd say yes reluctantly. He said it emphatically, and I'm so pumped about that.

That'd be cool. It's at the 41. I'm sorry, their shows at the 40-W. We're at Hinder Shots on Sunday, February 15th, because the 40-Watt cannot be open on a Sunday because of religious fanatics in the state of Georgia. That's the only show I feel like plugging right now. come out to it. All right.

I'll do it. Thank you all for listening to The Well Red Show. We'd love to stick around later, but we got to go to tune to next week. If you got nothing to do, thank you. God bless you. Good night and Skew. Skew, fart. Bye.

Bye.