wellRED podcast - Tiger By The Tale #3 - The Secret

Episode Date: April 14, 2020

Wherein we get into the nitty gritty details of the (lack of a) murder case for the late Don Lewis. In doing so we prove beyond doubt that none of us are forensic scientists (other types of science we still thank we could pull off). Finally our good trash buddy and childhood wolf-owner (yes really) Caitlin Weierhauser joins us to talk about the ins and outs of exotic animal ownership.

And we thank them for sponsoring the show. Well, no, I'll just go ahead. I mean, look, I'm money dumb. Y'all know that. I've been money dumb ever, since ever, my whole life. And the modern world makes it even harder to not be money dumb, in my opinion, because used to you, you, like, had to write down everything you spent or you wouldn't know nothing. But now you got apps and stuff on your phone.

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He's seen he's got all his meth head buddies, and they're all working for free. serving cheap Toteino's pizza Covered and rock a Walmart meat Then of course there's old Doc Gantle The Tigers made him rich And don't forget about Carol Baskins Man, we fucking hate that bitch We got a tiger by the tail, baby

Tiger by the tail we got a Tiger by the tail, baby Tiger by the tail we got a Tiger by the tail baby Tiger by the tail we got a Tiger by the tail baby Tiger by the tail we've got a Tiger by the tail baby

Taggle by the tail. So welcome back to Tiger by the Tail. We've made it through one and two, and now we are up to episode three, The Secret. As you can see, we are once again, once again graced by the presence of space cadet general DJ Lewis. Everybody give it up for DJ making it here. He's in the Dollar General's Space Force.

Yes. So the secret is our, is our Carol Bashkin centered episode and we start off coming out right out the gate with Dr. Bagabon-Anthal just immediately talking about

the 20-year-old cold case murder of Carol's husband, Don Lewis, which hit me like a ton of bricks in the face pretty well immediately. I mean, when you clicked on the third episode, weren't you like,

fucking what? Yeah, yeah. So... It's a big deal. So Don Lewis, This was her ex-husband who will get into how exactly they met later. It's a guy who, who, then we, first time, we see Gladys, Don's ex-wife, and the last time she talked to Don, she's just like,

Don was afraid for his life. And now we see Carol painted in this like, oh, my God, I thought she was a crazy flower-headed bitch, but turns out she may be a murderer. Oh, yeah, yeah, it's terrible. It's terrible for a lot of reasons. Number one, you can really see, to disdain on the faces of them

the Okeechobee goddamn fucking bridge club over there, the goddamn fucking women's auxiliary. They never in their life thought that that could happen to them. Like somebody could get murdered, have all their money taken away from them and kill her son and like all that mess, you know what I'm saying? And they are pissed. No, and that's what of piss and vinegar.

My first thought on seeing them, like, how you just described them better than I could ever have the Okeechobee Bridge Club. Also, it was their dad and husband. He was no one's son. Well, he was somebody's son. But I just, the reason that happened is she's so old now and DJ was just like, well, that's an old lady.

I saw pictures of Don. He was good looking. Ain't no way he was married to her. Don Lewis, by the way, is my dad's name. So this hit, I know. This is the second craziest story about Don Lewis I never heard of my name. shit you sure didn't

four or five I'm fixing to say so so I don't we we didn't say this in the last episode we you know teased that they teased

in the series that this was coming but like just to put it out there off top from the moment that the topic even got broached

where was y'all's heads at on you know Beretta did that shit or not did she do i'm saying her guilt yeah no she did that shit right but where was not at that point

like what i what i'm trying to ask and apparently did a very poor job of is like i'm saying right out the gate before hearing really any of the story yeah yeah where would be an asshole here and say that like i would have had to be excused from the jury because i'd have just immediately been like i don't need hear shit else. I done heard everything I need to know. This woman has had, you know,

375 different cats. I've seen her taking selfies. It's like she did like, and there's a rich man. And I, first off, I just always assume that when someone dies and you can't figure it out, it was the husband or the wife. Like I'd say that's, Drew, you're a lawyer. Like, wouldn't you say? 80% something of the cases is that? So, all right. So I, like from the time, the, even before this episode, what I'm saying is, for me, it was at the end of episode two, remember they're showing Carol and she's saying like, I guess it makes pretty good headlines for the newspapers for people to say that I killed Don and fed him to the Tigers, which is just ridiculous. And like, in that moment, I was like, oh, she totally killed Don and fed him to the

tigers. Yes, because, dude, even if it had been like 20 years, 30 years past, if you're talking to me about an accusation of murder, I'm still not going to be that flippant about it. I don't think. Right. But yes, Cho, they say the detective at one point in the series, he says, and I've heard it on plenty of other cop shit too, that you pretty much always start with, you know, the spouse or whatever, like in terms of an investigation, that's where you typically start at. Well, that's absolutely who did it. I mean, he filled out out of a restraining order, told everybody that he was about to leave her. He had told he had called his ex-wife.

He was having gold bars in his yard. He had called his ex-wife. And like, I can't imagine the amount of duress you must be under in order to call an ex-wife. Right. But called his ex-wife and told her, I fear for my life. And Carol is one of the worst people he has ever met. She's very dangerous. He told everybody, including his business partners, before this, that he'd wanted a divorce.

And then all of the sudden, sudden, within 72 hours, no one ever sees this motherfucker again. So what do you think it happened? Do you think she fed him to the tire? Did you think she got rid of him in the airplane? Yeah, I mean, I said that, and I did think that when she said, they think I fed him the tigers, that's ridiculous. I did think, oh, she totally fed him to the tigers.

But I think it probably is more likely one of the other scenarios they laid out than she literally fed him to the tiger. or the plain thing or the septic tank thing or whatever, probably. We can't get this, obviously, I guess a disclaimer, this is all pure speculation on our, it's just our theories. But like, dude, if you looked at all the, if you looked at everything that they even laid out,

even the stuff that was like, there's no way she could do this, whatever, whatever. You look at all the surrounding circumstances and the way she handled the will. Yeah. The way she had like, like, you guilty of something. The whole, that whole thing about how it said,

it specifically said in the will in the event of his disappearance. Yeah. And they asked that lawyer, you know, they're like, is that a thing that people do it? He was like, in 38 years of doing this, I've literally never seen a will say that explicitly. And he's a Florida lawyer. Right.

Right. People be disappearing. Yeah. So at the beginning. Literally, everybody with a boat who's got to get that on a pre-nut. So, at the beginning, like we said, when we're talking about his business partners

and him wanting a divorce, this is also when we're introduced to John Marciano, who, Trey, you pointed out in the other episode, as the dude who seems like he's got the most, he's got it the most together, yet he's got a fucking coffee table of a lined like mid-cum. Yeah, a coming line

and a little monkey butler and table sitting beside him. And he's just like, he's a detective who's like ancillary to this whole story and even he's got the goddamn tiger favor man didn't he also have a weird mask back here on his left yeah he had a couple he had a few of them they looked like those those like old

Illuminati bird like sex club masks or whatever the plague doctor masks the big big ones like that doctor's there is never going to be in my opinion enough evidence to get Carol Baskin put away but there is almost no doubt in my mind. She, at the very least,

knew what was up with whatever happened to him. Like, in my mind, the absolute best case scenario is that motherfucker got dementia. She knew it. And instead of telling somebody, she just encouraged him to go fly on one of his airplanes. Even his lawyers and the motherfuckers was like, no, that ain't what happened?

Like, we was just chilling. He ain't got no dementia. Well, Drew, what did you think, from a lawyer's perspective? perspective about all that shit with the with the restraining order the call of the ex-life the will all that stuff how does that I mean without a body man I mean it's it was curious to me though he his his van was parked down where his airplanes were but his lawyer and his business partner were like but none of his planes are missing so what's the

theory here and like you don't have to have a body to arrest somebody in a missing person situation. It helps a lot, you know. Hell, Carol wasn't even dead and they locked up, Joe. You ain't got to have a body to get locked up. But he was locked up. Well, no, that's because the crime was planning. They don't have.

If she ever, like, if Harold Baskin ever grows a pair, he could be like, yeah, she told me she did that shit and they might be able to arrest her. But, I mean, at this point, the evidence is all circumstantial. Now, in Florida, you can absolutely convict someone based on circumstantial evidence alone. If I'm not mistaken, I'm trying to remember in the case of a felony, though, if you have any evidence that's not circumstantial, that they didn't do it, and all you have that they did do it is circumstantial, it's automatic dismissal. So that might be why maybe somebody was like, no, she was with me the whole time.

But, you know, the documentary didn't say it. Hey, what about this? Another thing that felt weird to me, but I'm law dumb, is that lead detective that we were talking about earlier who identified as the lead detective on that case. He said on multiple occasions something to the effect of, yeah, the detectives who were on the scene at that time, you know, I would have hoped they would have investigated

the possibility of any, you know, wrongdoing there, but I just really, I'm not sure if they did or not. Like, it was the thing with the will, when he broke in, when she had that dude broke in and take steal the wheel, will, apparently. Yeah, yeah. The guy, he's, that, that detective said that about that. He's like, I would hope that the

detectives on the scene would have ensured there was no foul play, but I really can't be certain. And he's, I can't remember the other example, but there was another time Oh, boy, man. Oh, boy's van. Part of the whole deal, and like, is that weird, Drew? Yeah, or like, is that just me?

Well, that's something that I was frustrated with, with the documentary, to be honest with you, a little bit. I'm not super sure what that dude's role was in any of this. Like, I thought he was the lead investigator, but then at various points, he talks as if he was just the head of the department

at the time the investigation went on. And I don't give a fuck who the head of the department was at the time the investigation went on. I want to talk about the motherfucker that was on the case. And maybe we don't know who that is. Maybe that person's dead. Maybe Carol killed his ass too.

I don't know. Well, I'll tell you what I do know. What's that? I was saying we've jumped ahead a lot, which is fine, but I would like to get into a little bit in the Carol and Don saga exactly how it was they met, because I think you might not remember how crazy that was. Late one night, Don sees Carol crying on the side of the road

because she had had a fight with her first husband. She's 20, by the way. When they meet, Carol is 20 and Don is 42. So 22 years or senior. Don turns around and asks her to get in the car three times. She says no, three times. And then on the third time he comes up, she notices that he has a gun sitting on the front seat of the car.

And he says, and I quote, you can hold this gun on me if you want. I just need someone to talk to. And then Carol says, so, you know, I got in the car and held the gun on him and we drove down the road. This is a motel. I guess what I'm saying is I'm not painting a picture of the start of not a volatile relationship.

It literally started with a gun. It also isn't this the episode where we get into her background? Yeah, that's, yes. I mean, we, so what happens is we hear that she does this. Joe immediately, then we cut to Joe immediately on his internet show reading from Carol's diary about a lot of the shit. Now, she had a daughter and a husband who she said was so abusive. She had to throw a potato out.

at him to escape. I don't remember the potato. Oh, yeah. Oh, I remember the titer. Yeah, yeah. The only way she could get out of there was a throw a potato first. So, as you were saying about Carol's upbringing, I mean, it's pretty rough. This is what she's, this is what she's saying.

And, okay, I want to preface it by, all right, fuck it. I'll just say what it is. Carol says she grew up poor, but didn't know how poor until she was a teenager. She says that she was raped at knife point by three guys. who lived across the street from her when she was 14. Her parents were fundamental Christians and said basically that if that happened to her, she must have been asking for it.

So she moved out of the house at 15 and married her first husband at 17. Now, I know, believe all, I get that. I understand that. But we're also talking about Carol Baskins here. So like, if I'm not believing certain parts, there's part of me that I don't know. know, what do you think?

I mean, I think it's not hard to believe that she, I mean, she's pretty fucked up, it seems like, to me. I'm sick to say, my take on it. I don't have any trouble believing that there was some, like, you know, trauma early on that led to her being the type of person to feed a dude to tigers or whatever. Yeah. Well, that's what I'm saying. It all checks out.

Yeah, probably talking about it. Look at her now. Like, let's, let's paint it this way. My take on it is, I believe some of that shit happened. maybe all that shit happened. And that turned her into this fucking cold, kind of badass. Like, I mean, Carol's a hypocrite. But if she is a hypocrite, she's probably aware of it.

Like, when she's making these videos, they get 10 million shares, and she's making all this money for the tigers down there. She made a lie for herself. And that's what I'm saying. She's got a husband who will dress up like a fucking caveman and wear a collar for their wedding pictures. She has millions of dollars. She is untouchable.

The only man she hasn't defeated in her life is Doc Antale, who she's apparently let go of, I hope at this point for her own sake, frankly. Like, I could see that shit happening to Carol as a young hippie blonde woman and her just being like, you know what? Fuck that. I'm going to murder my husband.

I'm going to get me a new one that's like weaker than a run over fucking dog. And if a son of a bitch from Oklahoma with a foo man chew tries to come after me and kill me, I'll take his ass down. steal all his goddamn money and kick his parents out their goddamn house. No, I mean, I guess you're right.

I guess I can believe her about the rape and then not believe her when she says I did not murder my husband and feed him to a tiger. She on drugs too, though. That's true. Do you ever see a motherfucker wearing something on her head like that and not be on drugs? No.

No, and I've seen plenty of motherfuckers wearing flowers on her head. Yeah, I know it. And they've all been on drugs. Little girls. in the South and the spring is the only time. And the person who put it on her head usually was on drugs. Yeah. She was also with Don for two years before she ever even left her husband.

They immediately started going to exotic animal auctions. And in 1992, they got themselves a starter cat, a bobcat, as you do. That's your, you know. Classic starter cat. That's a good. That's hash. Yeah. Yeah.

Exactly. Hey, Corey, you talk, like Carol was married with a little baby, but also Don had his whole family, right? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, they've torn two families apart who, in my opinion, were better off for it, it seems. Yeah. Well, anyway, go on. So, like I said, they start, you know, go into exotic animal auctions in 92, get themselves a bobcat. They started the wildlife on Easy Street, and they were buying some. selling and breeding big cats for years. As a matter of fact, she made a very shitty, might I add,

how to video about breeding exotic cats and how to make them house cats, which we learn all this from a feller on a motorcycle with a sweet fucking rad mustache that they give like, you remember that good action shot with his mustache. Uh-huh. So at least off jump, Carol was very much about breeding shit. Yeah. Here's my opinion on that. Part of it. First of all, like you said, my God, that how-to video.

All her content is such garbage. How does she, she don't hit anyway. But the, here, my opinion on that is that if you, I think a person can be in a relationship with somebody and have a whole period of your life where you're breeding tigers and it's really immoral and all this stuff. And then have the realization that that is wrong. And then get completely out of the tiger game and dedicate your life to shutting the tiger game down.

you know what I mean and it's like a redemption story I could totally buy all that but the fact that she still operates the way she does with her tiger slaves and stuff it makes it all look just it just adds to the bullshittery to me this past that she has with the breeding and all that shit

every bit of her shit is fucked like every bit like even going all the way back to like I can't quit I can't quit thinking about the only way I had to escape was to throw a potato. Like, you weren't in any threat. I don't know if you've ever been in a threatening situation,

but a potato thrown... I mean, if that's all you got on you. Yeah, what else are you know? I mean, you ever see John Witt? If you're John Witt, you might be able to fuck a motherfucker up with a potato. I'm just saying, I doubt she was sitting there staring at a table that had a cast iron skillet,

a pistol, and a potato on it. But with her kid. Right. DJ just doesn't understand how you could use a potato as a weapon without it coming from a gun that you made yourself. Right. Why didn't you throw the kid? Why don't you go to the kid at him? Throw the kid at him.

Drew, what would you going to say a minute ago? Maybe her kid was named potato. I don't know what I was going to say a minute ago. All right. So he had filed a restraining order against Carol because she threatened to kill him and stole his gun. and hit it from her. Even the, like, even the diary that Joe is reading, Joe has her diary and he's reading it on his,

I don't know how the fuck Joe got her diary. Did they say, well, right, in the mail? Who's, I don't understand how that got out. Espionage, dude, covert blackouts. Because one of her tiger slaves fucking hate her, dude. Joe, the fifth one of them, he was running an operative on the inside. Or Harold's ass. Power, Harold, what's his name?

Howard Baskins. I could see Howard like just having a bat. She made him stay in the cage one minute too long so he fucking betrayed her. Even in this diary, by the way,

Carol says that she is afraid that Don is about to leave her and take everything and she just wishes that there was some way out. Like this is all documented. This is in there. Then we have the restraining order. And that's what I'm saying about

this scorned, beaten, broken woman who decides fuck that not anymore. This is another thing I found interesting was so he files that restraining order on Carroll for threatening to kill him and they ask his lawyer about it and they're like so what you know

what happened to that? He goes well the restraining order was denied and they're like how the fuck could the restraining order be denied and he said well because it was all verbal and then the lawyer says that something I need your opinion on Drew the lawyer says we don't restrain free speech in this country we punish it after

it's done. Yeah, that's the dumbest lawyer thing I've ever heard in you want to say. All right. I also want to do. First of all, he did seem to say it with like a, I wish this isn't how it was done type of thing. Well,

I mean, depending on the judge, it can be hard to get a restraining order. If you're just claiming someone said something and there's no witnesses, et cetera, et cetera, the judge might just be like, that's thin,

blah, blah. But the idea that you have the freedom to threaten someone's life is just categorizing. historically in every state that I know of false. That is absolutely a lie, right? That's a terroristic threat. That is terroristic threats. It's just a threat.

Like, it's just a regular threat. It's quite literally what the crime of a threat is defined as. Right, right, right. It's saying you're going to do bodily harm to some. John. Drew, you froze. Yeah, he did. Look at the way he froze, too.

Look at his face. You're not even allowed to screen fire. And he has to be a little. I don't hit. It says my connection is unstable. Can y'all hear me? I can now. You can freeze up for a minute.

You came back in with, I don't hit. You can't even yell fire in a theater. Like, that's illegal because it would cause a start. You absolutely cannot. I mean, and it does depend on the judge. I remember in Knox County, there was a judge. Judge Sword. He was a dickhead.

Judge Sword? Yeah. And he ran his little fucking court like a little kingdom. and whoever, it was known that the first person who got in there, do you want to talk or do you, I don't know what's happening. What? DJ whispered in my ear, I would not want to go in front of Judge Sword as if we weren't doing a podcast right now.

Well, buddy, you definitely would want to go in front of Judge Sword if it was you and a significant other having a domestic dispute because whoever got there first always got the restraining order. And the other person's life was pale for the next two years because he just given out like candy, but other judges won't give them out because people do use them vindictively to make their significant others life hell. I think that's what happened. But man, let me tell you something about Harold Baskins, not Harold Baskins, Don Lewis's

lawyer. That's some bitch practiced law in Florida for people named Don Lewis in the 80s and 90s. Did you see his ties? He had like clown ponds. Yeah. Yeah, he had some Paul Goodman shit going. So, Drew, there's another part of that. There's another part of that I want to ask you about.

But he was a millionaire. You can't tell me you can't drop out of that. A million dollars, a multi-millionaire. You can't get a goddamn fucking non-clown lawyer. I mean, or not a sprain in order from your. You could get a non-clown lawyer. You could also get a nicer vehicle. I mean, there was a lot about that man.

That's true. Real quick, Drew. Real quick, Drew, is Judge Sword, is it S-O-A-R-D? No, it's Sword, like, school. Well, there's this Slum Lord family up in Cookville that's the Sword family. Oh, yeah, I lived in those motherfuckers for a bit. They don't, they don't hit. They do not hit.

I was just wondering if he was part of that whole cabal. But, okay, how about this? And I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to make some larger fucking political or philosophical statement with this. It's a genuine question I have. in your opinion, do you think it had anything to do with the fact that he was a man

and she weren't, and it was this aspect of like, oh, fuck, she ain't going, you're going to let her kill you? You know what I mean? I'm afraid of her and you're like you're afraid of her. Yeah, you'll be fine. Yeah, for sure. That was probably part of it. Yeah, I was about to say, it feels like to me that if this was

her taking out of restraint order on him, it might have gone a little different. I think it would have, and I think also again, Some judges give them out like candy. And then you've got judges who, man, that dude might have had a fucking month's worth of people coming in there saying, he said he was going to kill me. She said she was going to just having divorce court before the divorce was ever finalized.

And he's just sick of people in shitty marriages. Sorry, there was a fly on my face. He's just sick of people in shitty marriages coming there and trying to get restraining orders so they can win the divorce. Right. I mean, it is Florida. I'm sure he has. It's so wild because he's a multimillionaire. Like you figure.

like the judge would know who the fuck he was. So could there have possibly been some fuck shit on the slide that like John Lewis just like wrote this? Maybe DJ. Or maybe his lawyer filled it out and maybe put it to the side. Well, maybe DJ. Is there any way possible that this, that whole thing is some fuck shit?

Of course there's, it's possible, but he's the rich one. Usually the fuck shit goes the other direction. A, but B, my theory, yeah. People went in court. No, rich folks win in court. They don't lose. Right.

And that's like Carol, obviously. What I'm saying, though, is it's a much more, to me, it's a much more sound theory that the lawyer who said that they lost because of free speech, which is a complete legal lie, was with him that day and didn't know what the fuck he was doing. Yeah. That's his lawyer. Being an idiot on a documentary, he had had decades to look it up and find out he was wrong. it should also be noted that everything that we are currently talking about him trying to get his affairs in order for the divorce, him filing the restraining order. All of this happened in June and then August is the last time we ever see or hear of this motherfucker. So immediately not looking at us.

I mean, that's what I'm saying. Like right there, just that little bit of information from the he's going to take all my shit and I don't know what to do about it. I wish there was a way out to. She's going to kill me. She stole my gun. I need a fucking restraining order to I'm trying to file for the divorce to two months later. He's fucking gone. So like in my mind, if he truly was trying to get this whole,

he disappeared to Costa Rica theory, which, you know, her whole thing is like, well, you know, he had been like planning a bunch of stuff in Costa Rica and he was wanting to go down there because there's not as many regulations and he can breed more cats. None of that makes sense to. someone that just fucking then disappears. And also, I feel like within 20 years you'd be able to find this fucking lunatic

in Costa Rica. Also, the whole thing that Drew said about the planes and they also said that like the types of planes he had, the little cessiness or whatever that he was fucking with, don't have the rain. He could not have done that without stopping, like, I think they said four times. You would have had to stop for fuel.

So like, how does that hold water at all? You know, the Costa Rica thing. Carol did it? I mean, yeah, I mean, so far, it's already just like, goddamn. I mean, it's opening shut case to me. And another thing, and I can't help but wonder if his family used the same goddamn lawyer, you know, criminal court aside, just the fuck shit that went on with the will and the power of attorney.

Right. I can't believe they didn't go to probate court. Yeah. And point all that fuck shit out. Now, my only theory against that, though, is in Florida, if your will is like fucked up or you don't have one, most of the shit goes to your wife anyway. So maybe they were in a lose-lose situation. Well, if what you mean by the previous power of attorney stuff was Anne McQueen, who was his assistant.

She handled all his books, that sweet little old lady. She was the power attorney and she was the executor of his will until he'd been missing. And all of a sudden, fucking Carol and that other homeboy who, uh, god damn it, I can't remember his name. He was just a dude that was talking about how Don was the type of motherfucker that he'd help him bury gold in his yard and shit like that. They broke into the place and just stole all the fucking power of attorney shit.

And then next thing you know, Carol's the power of attorney. And as we talked about earlier, it has on there in the event of my disappearance, which means Carol's the one that pinned on. That motherfucker knows something too. Like Carol's the one that literally penned all that shit. There's no way she wasn't. That boy knows something too because I don't give a fuck

when I'm, if I can't I'm not going to be like, oh yeah. Corey just lets me do all that shit all the time, right? Okay, yeah, Corey lets me do that shit. Anybody else coming up to me asking me to do some shit about Corey's shit? Yeah. I ain't no fucking way. No, because I got it like that.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I don't know what you're saying. That was weird. I agree with you. It's like I get, like, I kind of get what he's, like what his story is or whatever. It's like, look, Don had me do that all the time. This is Don's wife. I didn't think nothing of it,

but everything else that we've heard about their relationship at this point in time would make you think that we would think something of it. You got a damn right. You got to damn right. So, fuck that bullshit. They do, they do get,

finally Carol calls the police after like, I think it was like four or five days of him actually missing. Because she's talking to Ann on the phone. And she's like, yeah, he ain't been to work. What the fuck's like, oh, he's been gone for five days.

You think I should call the police? And she's like, Uh, yeah, do that. So they do, they investigate the property naturally as you do. They've even got helicopters surrounding it. They find nothing of concern. They do find his van at the airport with his briefcase in it, uh,

which the investigator naturally feels like it was planted. Then they find fingerprints all over the van, which belonged to this old boy who I believe worked at Napa auto parts. Uh, who, you know, clearly they had his fingerprint. prints on file. And they go to him and he said that Don had actually brought that van in four days before and was trying to talk him into going to Costa Rica with him.

So there's kind of a stick in the spokes in this whole thing. Well, I don't have any doubt that he wanted to go to Costa Rica and he was about a dip on her. I feel like she just stopped him before he was able to get gone. I mean, yeah, right. I think there definitely was some shit, you know, he had some monkeys in Costa Rica. He had some Wemmer's in Costa Rica. Oh, yeah. He had his site set on Costa Rica, probably, but that is just like, that makes a convenient,

you know, story for what could have happened to him. Oh, he flew to Costa Rica and I guess he never made it. And everybody's like, well, he did want to go to Costa Rica. Do you know what I mean? Like if she knew that about him and then took him out anyway, then that's just like, you know, cards she can play or whatever. But it's so lewd. I mean, like, it's not even like,

of course he wanted to go to Cutterace, Costa Rica to get away from your punk ass. Yeah, I mean, he did stay wanting to go to Costa Rica. They also... They had been there buying cats and warmers and mess. He had been there buying cats and woman's and mess. You are correct.

He did supposedly have a girlfriend in Costa Rica. Then they talk about how, like, well, there's no way this could have happened because you have to log flights like that. and you have to sign in and sign out and all this shit. And then Carol's like, he lost his, he lost his pilot's license the day after he got it. So anytime he flew, it was illegally, which,

how do you lose your pilot's license the day after you got it? Yeah, they really should have explained it on what the fuck was going on at that point. Yeah, she also said, as part of that whole thing, she also said that he knew the exact altitude he could fly at to remain under, like, radar and stuff. So she's like saying, look, he had to find secret because he didn't have a license. He knew how to find secret. So he was able to do that.

And this is what happened. But to me, there's just so much dubious shit about all of that, that entire line of recent. Like, like, especially the whole, he would have to stop four times. And I just can't. Even at that point in time, it's hard for me to believe that there would just be no record of any of that anywhere from anybody. You know. Well, buddy, how to fuck do you not, you look.

You lose your license the day after you got it, but you're so savvy you can fly under radar shit. What did you do to lose your license? Yeah. That's a really good point in my opinion. Trust me, it's like when I lost my driver's license, it's because I was terrible at flying under the radar. You did not hit.

You did not hit the driver. I fly directly into the radar. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good point, DJ. I didn't even think about it that way. Another thing of note at this point,

Carol is trying to explain to everybody that he was showing extreme signs of Alzheimer's because, of course, he was. Yeah. And naturally, my buddy Don, all his pals come to his defense by saying that is a bunch of horseshit. Right.

So, I mean, I don't know. So far, we've got all, all leads pointing to Carol murdered this motherfucker except for this Napa dude's like, well, I don't know, he was trying to go to Costa Rica. And then here we got, we cut back to Joe here in the documentary and he premieres what I think is probably

everybody thinks his most chart topping hit. Oh yeah. Which is here kitty kitty. Here kitty. How, dude, I don't know what the, I'm trying to imagine what the casting process was for this video. like what resources he had.

Have you ever seen a person look more like another person? I mean, but here's the thing. Carol is like a prototypical Carol slash Karen type. Like she's like the ultimate of what she is. So like there's a lot. You know, former hippie, the girl, a girl I used to date's mama whose last name is Baskin, had the same smile, the same thousand-yard stare.

She wasn't a psychopath or anything. She's just tired of her husband's bullshit. But she married into the basket name, so I have no notion that there can. But that's a former hippie look. They don't wear bras. Like they know how to use a hammer. They'll fight.

She had the same teeth. Like it was weird. This woman got the same teeth. Yeah, that's true. I think that's just 70s teeth, man. But actually, this is a little bit of an aside, but do y'all ever feel that there's like, there are certain, like, almost, like, types of people,

like the way that you look, types of physicality that people have, and you'll see it repeated with a bunch of, you know what I mean, like you see examples of it. It's like they're not exact doppelgangers, but it's like they're the same type of person. Right. Like, they were definitely cut from the same.

Yeah. Yeah, I do think that God had like maybe 150, unique molds and he made the face of that and then whatever we decide to do to our body later like our skin just kind of differentiates upon that mold. And now this is still different

than like having somebody on hand to put in a video to slander a person but like how many mees how many drooms have we met you know, no DJs. I ain't but one DJ. But how many mees have you met there one of y'all.

Amen. There y'all. Well we have. Right. Y'all know what I'm talking about. We just met a meeting in Raleigh. Oh, yeah, we've met a tray. Denver's full of Drews, you know, like.

What are they doing? Cloning. Yeah, I'm just saying, like Corey said, there's just like, I think there's only so many types of people. I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, Carol has that serious, traumatic, she has a traumatic face. She has, she has, she has, she has that. Like, that 40,

40 miles stare. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. But it just, to me, it was just crazy how much. But to me, the best part of that video was not the great casting job they did. My favorite part was when, God damn it, I can't even remember the line, but Joe Exotic, he's sitting there and he's got the black suit on. He's got the Clint Black get up or whatever in his sunglasses.

And he says, we're all getting tired of dealing with your shit or something. and in his hand he literally is just holding tiger shit. Yeah. And I don't think they fake that at all. I think my man just picked up some tiger shit. No, well, going forward just a little bit, they show a clip in a later episode from the filming of the video, and he's standing there holding a tiger shit like it's B-roll,

you know, behind the scenes, he's standing like, God damn it, it stacks! Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. Pretty sure that was actually a tiger shit. Also, you say he's got like a Clint Black get up or whatever. Correct me, if I'm wrong, ain't it a priest? thing? And he got a Roman collar? Yeah, it's a priest thing. It's a priest thing. Yeah, that's a hard choice. The cowboy hat and the glasses threw me, I guess. Yeah, he's like a cowboy

priest. A cowboy priest. He was a sane minister, right? At some point. If I'm sure he was, why wouldn't he be? Right. Of course. He married people and shit, didn't he? At Tiger Mess. Did he? Did he marry people at the Tiger Mess? I don't know. Maybe I might that. Again, Again, why wouldn't it? There's so much about this that I keep forgetting because there's so much fucking insane shit. Also something that should be noted, Carol's brother worked for the sheriff's department.

Oh, yeah, what about that? That was a huge part. Yeah. Okay, so, all right. So I'm remembering this now because we broke these up to make the notes and rewatch them and stuff. I haven't rewatched this episode.

I only watched it once. I might get some of this a little bit wrong, but it wasn't it that like she, went out into the middle of the night at like 3 a.m. one night to go get feed or whatever at 3 in the morning. To go get a powdered milk type supplement for her cats. Yes. Then the only, and then she like broke down and happened to be found by her brother who's a cop who brought her back to the house and that was the last night. Anybody saw Don alive? And they ain't talked to each other for years until that day. What are the odds of any of any? of that. That's another thing. That's another fucking thing.

This is how, like, take all this shit that's pointing against her away. Take all that away. That coincidence happens. And then I'm sure, like, basically the documentarian's like, well, don't you find that a bit convenient?

And she's like, oh, you're not to her. I hadn't actually talked to my brother before then. We didn't really have that much of a relationship. I never really knew him because, this is what she says. Because by the time I was 15, he was like nine. so, you know, there wasn't that much of a relationship there. She's trying to paint this picture that a six-year age gap means that, like,

how could we have known each other or had a relationship? Are you shitting me? Exactly. But also, that's a pattern in her life, which means, like, like, when she got into a situation where she could have what she wanted from Don Lewis, she had to kill him. Yeah. Because her whole life had been moving on, breaking this, using people for what the fuck they had to give her.

But the other part of what Corey just said to me is I feel like if that's all completely true, if that was true, like, yeah, he is my brother, but I barely knew him. We have really no relationship and it's just a coincidence. I feel like if that's all true and you are innocent, like you also would acknowledge how insane that is. You know what I mean? It's like, yeah, he's my brother, but I barely know him. It's fucking crazy that he happened to be the cop that, you know, when he showed up, I was like, oh, my God. You're my brother and I don't know you and it's wild. But she acts like it's very, very, she acts like it's normal.

You know, like it's a normal thing to have happened. But also there's no foul play for this reason. But it's like that ain't none of that tracks at all. That's her whole thing is acting like shit that ain't normal. Is normal. No, you're right. Yeah. Yeah.

That's right. Yeah. And again, like I know that documentaries can like edit. and like make the narrative, however they want to make the narrative, to make the viewer believe, whatever they want you to believe. But like literally just the facts as they are stated, and as they just come out of her mouth, it's like, I mean, I bare minimum think you're fine that he's dead.

Right. Right? Yeah. Oh, dude. No, she killed his ass. Yeah, she did. She poisoned him too. guarantee that's the way she did it.

Then she fed his ass to the Tigers. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I assume shot, but I only say that because if this guy was feeling, if this guy was feeling all sorts of ways about her leading up to this, he probably wouldn't eat nothing that she gave him. I don't know. This is a guy.

This guy's from a different time, different generation. Yeah, man. How else was he going to eat? That's true. Yeah, man. If he didn't eat what she cooked him, Yeah, both couldn't make a sandwich probably. No.

No. Drew, while you were taking a shit, what's that? It was so good. I bet it was. While you were taking a shit, we were discussing the fact that her brother worked for the goddamn Sheriff's Department and just happened to be there that night and picked her up. But that was the first time she'd even seen him in years because, as you know, they had a six-year difference in their relationship.

so like how the fuck did they be friends? Well, and she stopped talking to her parents because she was brutally raped by three people, but then there's her dad just hanging out on a golf cart. Yeah, Vernon. Oh, yeah. Fuck, dude. Yeah.

I totally forgot about Vernon who she made a point to talk. They made a point to talk about how Vernon hated Don. Yeah. It's like, now that you mention it, yeah, what good is the testimony of a man who turned his daughter out after she got raped at Knife Point? Well, I don't think he turned around. I think what happened was he didn't know how to deal with it.

So he felt guilty for all those years. They reconciled. And part of his guilt was like, you know, I didn't kill them boys that raped you, baby. But I fucking killed Don. Yeah, no, that's not bad. That tracks for me. I could buy that. I feel a little guilty just talking about this woman's rape.

But at the same time, it feels relevant to all this shit that happened. Like, I'm really kind of trying to defend her. I think she killed this man. I just think there's a reason she ended up so fucked up. Well, there's a reason all of these people ended up fucked up. Well, every single person in a fucking documentary ended up fucked up. Well, on top of all that, my whole thing with it is not, I don't give a shit that Don don't seem like a person that I care if he's alive either.

I mean, absolutely. I'm just saying she fucking killed this motherfucker. Right, right, right. Quit with the bullshit. Yeah, I don't feel like, you know. It's the worst part is the hypocrisy, Corey. That's what it all comes down to. The worst part is not the murder.

It's the hypocrisy. Yeah, and the worst part is that not that she's trying to ruin Joe Exotic's life. It's that she's bleeding basically the same fucking life. Yes, the hypocrisy of all of it is what makes it so shitty. Yes. And there is only as much evidence on her, there's as much evidence on her husband as there actually is on Joe Exotic putting out a hit on Carol. If you think about it.

No, that's not. I don't do anything that's accurate. Oh, all of a sudden, the dude just ends up, oh, he gave me $3,000 to kill him? I understand what you're saying, but I think they had him on tape saying some wild shit. Oh, no, they do. Well, we'll get to that house, buddy.

Not it did. We'll get to that whole thing. I could be wrong. Well, I don't think the documentary reveals it all either, boys, for the record, on what they had on Joe Exotic. And I think they did that on purpose. I think there was way more evidence on Joe Exotic than the documentary revealed.

A couple more things of note. We kind of, man, we really, we sprinted through most of the bottom half of the notes at the very top of the episode because we got so excited, which is, of course, fine. But a couple more things of note here is that Carol, after his disappearance, ends up firing every single person that ever worked for,

like if you worked for Don, of course, if you work for Don, you work for the family. But basically, if Don had hired you to work for the family, Carol immediately fired all them motherfuckers, got rid of all his shit, and then allegedly put up a note that said, never speak that man's name in this house. That just doesn't sound like a grieving widow, I suppose, is what I'm trying to get at.

She also had him declared legally, dead five years and one day after he went missing, which is the legal amount of time, like the legal amount of time to the minute. She was waiting. She was waiting. She was an alarm set. Like literally to the minute. And I'm not saying I would never begrudge anyone for wanting to move on with their life.

But like in cases like this, in missing persons cases, I just feel like you still have hope for more than five years, especially if you never find a body. and like there was no plain wreckage and all that. I don't know, man. It just, again, all signs point to this, she fucking killed this motherfucker. She also never held a formal memorial for him at all, which doesn't seem like something you would do

if you were grieving the person that died. She hated him. She fucking hated him. And I tell you another thing that helps me, you know, decide in my mind and heart that she did it was the old footage of her. Because we all have this weird bias against, but sometimes also for old people,

where we think old people don't know shit or don't know how to do shit, but then we also think they're all sweet. And she's a little older now, and it's like, look at this lady with flowers in her hair. But when you see that old footage of that blonde woman chain smoking sitting there talking about, well, I don't know where he's at.

It's like, that is a killer. Also, just real quick, breaking news. When this comes out, everybody will know, but we'd be remiss not to at least mention it. Joe Exotic has been hospitalized. right now with the rona specifically right yeah he was quarantined because they thought he had it we knew earlier well i'm saying they're now saying he's been sent to hospital just to follow that thread for a minute i imagine that the rona is just running rampant through the prison system right

it would almost have to be because it ain't like they're never giving a fuck about it you know i i i i yeah i we're not or not said that don't know but it is a shitty situation oh i mean it's just shitty. I mean, the thing my brother said about, he goes, well, it's not that I think we're going to get it. I know we're going to get it. It's that when we do,

no one's going to give a fuck. But maybe since this dude's famous, they sent him to a hospital, like maybe he's got a shot. No Exotic won't die, but my brother will. Well, also, wouldn't you say that maybe it has to do with the fact

that his is a pending case, maybe? No. Well, I mean, God, dude, they should just do it. No, no, I know that they should just do it. That's not my point. I guess what I'm trying to say is...

It's case in opinion, though. I thought that there was still a trial and shit. No, there's an appeal going on, and he's also trying to get Trump to pardon him, but that might've got found guilty. Oh, okay. Well, all right. Yeah, you're right.

It's just the same thing. What if Trump come out and pardon Joe Exotic? He will. It'll hint. Would that even make... It'll hit. No, no, it wouldn't. But I'm saying it's like he'd probably get a lot of people back in his corner.

That's, dude, I'm saying, like... Joe Diffy died. Do you know what I mean? There is no doubt in my mind that someone on Trump's PR team or press secretary, whatever the fuck they are, that has at least, maybe not to him, but like in the room, that has been pitched or floated at least once or, like, I'm not even trying to joke. Yeah, no.

I mean, I believe you. Should we bring in Uncle Kate? We can bring in Uncle Kate. Yeah. Yeah, closing thoughts. on this just while we're running through the notes. The detective obviously said there's still no physical evidence that would point to any specific persons.

Don's, let's see, this is funny too. Don's family had done some interviews, and I guess, I mean, I guess this is one they're talking about. First off, they only got 10% of his estate. The rest went to Carol. I was surprised that they even got anything to tell you the truth, considering like how fucking wild Carol had been. But Don's family had done some interviews,

but then apparently Carol got a hold of them and told them to keep their mouth shut. And if they didn't, she would take everything away from them. And they did. They apparently have not done any subsequent interviews, besides from this one, because they are deathly terrified of Carol. And we-

Okay. So on that note, Drew, you mentioned it earlier, and I'll be honest, because I'm law dumb. It didn't occur to me while watching it, but like the whole, the civil aspect of this, because the burden of proof or whatever is way lower in a civil case, right?

And they have all this. First of all, they're his actual children. They have all this, like circumstantial evidence and stuff. Couldn't they have been able to fucking, you know, do something about the money part of this?

My theory is, they asked the same dipshit lawyer Don was listening to and his fucking purple polka dot clown pies. And he was like, Free speech, I don't fucking know what to tell you. That's $1,000. I mean, that's my theory,

that and they were afraid of the fact that she had so much money and she could afford good lawyers, and they were just going to lose, and they were like, well, I'll take 10%. Because that's what that is, by the way. She hushed money. Right, yeah, yeah.

She said, I'll give you 10% to shut the fuck up. The reason they're talking now is they already got her 10%. It looked like they done spending on hair products, too. Yeah, and that couch, they looked like they were sitting in like a showroom at fucking home goods. There were a lot of doilies. So we end the episode on Joe in jail saying, I'm taking Carol on because everyone else is afraid to,

and she has a lot of answering to do, her day is coming. So fret not everyone out there who is worried that Carol's not going to see her day in court. Our man Joe Exotic, well, you know, maybe not now that he's quarantined, but he is still on the case from inside the jail. He's ever on the case, buddy. He'll never not be on the case. He's on the case from the hospital bed right now. Hey.

Hey, Heidi, Heidi, how are you doing? we're doing all right we're hanging in there with them wolves I'm here to represent you sure as hell are like the best camo so you came prepared our first guest that we had on this series mark a gee I put him on blast he was not at all prepared and then in fact when you saw how we looked he went and put sleeves on he did he was sand sleeves

and then something about this made him decide he needed sleeves on to church it up that's the choice yeah churched it up for them particular thing. That don't make no goddamn sense, does it? Okay, Caitlin Warehouser, everybody. Joining us, yeah, a friend of the Well Red podcast is here to talk about exotic animal ownership

because you speak for personal experience, right? Yeah. I have wolves. Yeah. It's not good. That's all. The biggest takeaway is it's not good. You're not supposed to. All right.

Precap, if anyone's, does it remember your episode or didn't hear it? You were raised literally with wolves. Go ahead and explain that, please. Mom died when I was six and my dad, we lived on a like 25-acre ranch adjacent to my uncle's 25 acres, up against old girl forest, child care is expensive, popsies, and added a newspaper that says wolf puppy's on sale. So you can't pass up a deal. So he got, he just got a litter of three from breeders in, in Oregon. They weren't supposed to be doing that either, probably.

I don't think so. I don't think they were for wilderness. They might have, no, because they were selling them. Yeah, this is like that. This is Wolf King situation. Yeah. But they had been bred out of like what was certified or whatever. So it was like a wild wolf impregnated one of theirs.

And so they sold them for cheap. So my dad got. Okay. What does cheap me? I actually was going to make sure and ask you how much a wolf set you back. Because to us, one of the craziest takeaways from this whole documentary is apparently a tiger only set you back about $2,000.

So what's a wolf go? So this is what I don't know. And pop's always been like sidestep on that question because I don't really know how that went down. But, okay, so this is what I can figure out. Child care at the time for, three kids in rural Oregon probably weren't paying more than like five, six, seven bucks an hour.

And he thought the wolves were like, way better deal. They were taking care of the kids. That's what the world is. Yeah. Yeah. We'd already had two. So when we got the three little ones, but they were gray wolves. So that was the big change up.

Because we grew up with one red wolf named Cody, and she was like, she was like our dog. Like, she wasn't, she was the sweetest wolf. Like, she didn't really act like a red wolf. And then she had a litter. We kept one out of that. And then mom died, we got the gray wolves. And that's when, like, great, they're different.

They're different. They're much bigger. You have five wolves, two red and three gray. It's rainbow. Well, look, you opened up by saying, hey, it's wrong. It's not a thing you should do. And we get and appreciate that. but what was just what was life like with wolves as a child the biggest difference though is the environment that we had for them which was like open we lived against like up against old growth forest so they were just if they wanted to be around us they came and we annoyed them or they got sick like they just take off so there's no cages no kennels no like we had a fence for the horses but like we had a fence for the horses but like

Pre-range wolves. Yeah. The idea of a fence where the wolf was like laughable. Like, no, they go where they want to go. Yeah.

I've seen why he thought they'd be good at raising kids, you know, them being able to leave for weeks at a time. You know. Like a parent. What?

No, he thought it'd be good for us to have something to do after school. Yeah. You know, we grew up in a ranch, but like not with any,

like, battle or anything. They're just kind of like we had horses and then we went through we had like rabbits, pigs and that all that like we never stuck with it. But they go hunting and the red wolves were really good about hunting. Grey Wolf's not so much good as a hunting buddy more that's doing the round thing. That's just the wolf's deer now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But he thought it'd be good for us to just have something to do after school and like have another responsibility because we raised like bummer sheep and bummer lambs and stuff like that. He thought, you know, we love the wolves so much.

He's like, well, this would be good for him, you know, something to do. And then the wolves to take care of the kids. So when he wasn't wrong. And you did, did you love the wolves so much? Oh, fucking more than anything. Like I would have fed my brother to the wolf if given the opportunity at any point. Yeah, we love them so much. So go ahead, Drew.

A question we've asked to everybody. everybody as a white trash American American. Native of white trash Native American. A lot of those out there. A lot of those out there. There was a pod. That was native period, also American. This meant you were native to be in white trash is all that.

Next, bro. Have we been set back by this documentary? Because we weren't shit. Back from where? Brett Neckery wasn't having a come up. No. Gay meth heads, I think. Well, that's funny you say that.

We were collecting stories like wild animal owner stories. And we ran into what I would call a disproportionate amount of gay men. So we were starting to wonder if it was a thing. We come to the conclusion it wasn't. It was some kind of coincidence. Ray's got a show exotic, but like the Division III level in his hometown. I did.

I had a big, big Bob at my hometown, Salina, Tennessee had a his own little mini zoo. I think he might have had maybe a link or a bobcat or two, but he trafficked more in, like, more so herbivores. He had a whole bunch of llamas and camels and zebras and shit. He had a couple kangaroos. He also was a big monkey guy, actually.

You haven't heard this story. I don't want to get into the whole thing, Caitlin, because it's sad. But he actually had one of his monkeys, Carlos, taken away from him by the authorities recently. So, you know, he's coming under fire. He's currently locked in a custody battle over Carlos the monkey. So we're all, you know, praying for him back home. We, yeah, I had, it is, I know, but I didn't, I never thought it was just, he was there, my whole life and my whole living memory, that zoo and Big Bob had existed. And I never thought anything about it.

But what's even weirder probably is when I watched Tiger King for the first time, I actually didn't even put the two together in my head until I was having a conversation with somebody else. And I was like, well, hold on. I don't think this is like just a stereotypically white trash. Southern Redneck thing or anything. I was like, I mean, sure, we had Big Bob who had, and then I went into the whole thing. I was like, holy shit. Oh, I hear it. You left out the multiple

Puerto Rican prostitutes that he would come through town with, too. Yeah, well, that was his other thing. I think that's just when you're wild, you're fucking wild. When you're wild. Yes, right. I'm completely with you. I think it's a wild-ass motherfucker thing, as opposed to any

kind of sexuality or ethnicity or anything like that thing. It's just some people are just wild. You're wild. It is a certain type. Like there's no good ones run in private zoos. Right. That's like that goes along with the territory. For you to be somebody who would be like, yeah, I'm definitely going to take all these critters and breed them and stuff and sell them and like exploit their little offspring and take away from them off.

Like that you're wrong and bad to begin with. But then, yeah, I think that comes in every flavor. Oh, how do you? Go ahead. Are they fucking them critters? I don't know why. At least some of them have got to be, right? Yeah, I don't think why that would be the line that Joe Exotic and co drew.

I mean, I'm sure that at least somebody, clearly off camera, that would have gotten inserted in the document. Somebody's fucked with them butts. I think, I think, I think, I think, can start Jackson monkeys off. They talked about milking those kitties in like, away, and then Doc Annal, come on. It's like, I want to be noticed. Who loves them kitties and them kitties love me back?

Dude, that's not how you say that. So you were talking about if you're somebody around to private zoo, then you got some shit wrong because there's no, you know, good light to shine on it, which I think we all agree with you. How do you feel about this? This is the episode we just covered was episode three, which is the Carol Baskin-centric episode. How do you feel about her and her operation?

Do you feel that it's any different? I liked it when Dawn's, I think his daughter was like, oh, people like want to say she's an angel. It's like, oh, she's an angel from hell. Like, oh, she's a hell angel. Yeah, yeah, she is. She's an angel from hell. I think she's a real bad lady.

And yeah, there's so much suspension. But also, there's a fair amount of misogyny this happening here too because people are going hard for Joe and Joe's a trash horrible bad trash shit but they're like people go harder on Carol and I'm like well yeah okay so she does cackle like a psychopath anytime it comes up how she could have done it I mean if I was going to it would have been like this but anyway that's terrifying but also yeah I don't know she definitely did it. The Albertson's run is, I think, like, the most suspicious car is that she went out at that time. I feel like that's more of a class issue. I think it's, I was going to say, how much do you think it has to do with

what we keep harping on over and over where Carol is concerned is the, like, the self-righteousness that she has about the whole thing. Like, she very much, you know, claims and holds the moral high ground while also still running her own cat kingdom and having her. own slaves that work there and shit and I think that's the thing that it's really bad she is full of she's full of she's full of bad

she's full all the way up she might be the lady that like pinches kids that's all she just like like that comes up and pinches like your kid that she don't even fucking know like when they're like oh just starts rubbing their hair

and stuff like pinches I'm digging and crying like all your kid's crying like she's psycho in that way and I know a mean lady I have a knows for it, you know what I mean? Like a little psycho lady. I got him. She's nuts, so. But also, her staff is volunteer.

I don't know. Does that make it better? No. That's not. No. No. That's worse. Oh, I know. But then I started to think about like, if I was just like real into kiddies and like lived in Florida and was like, oh, I could just go volunteer. That'd still be choice.

Her staff is way bigger. They're not working the hours that the other people. I don't know. it's like cult A or cult B. Yeah, right. Now, I agree with you completely that everybody sucks here, like, for sure. But you're also not trapped little gay boys with meth. Hmm.

Yeah, they're straight. They're straight boys, right? Yeah, you're just trapping a little, those young boys. Come on, that's. Yeah. There's some straight guys with tigers and meth. He's doing it. She doesn't do country music videos,

wear friends, go around with, promos on the, entire country. Joe cut a whole country a promo on all of America, just talking about I'm gay, I do drugs, I like tigers, and I'll fucking shoot you. And like, you know, I broke a shit. People like him more because he's interesting in my opinion. I think we should also mention the latest promo that he cut, which was just released to the internet, which was Joe standing out there in his yard as he does with the camera on him going, I mean, what the hell is this all about? can't say the N word, but you turn on any YouTube video there is and all the rappers,

they're saying the N word, why can't I say it? What is this? A discrimination? What has come to America? So he's got some thoughts that maybe aren't good. My thing with that is, you've got two tigers behind you and a gun on your hip. Say it. You can say it. Well, dude, you know he does. He totally says it. That is true. He definitely says it. But I definitely. Everybody in that documentary says it. There's not a single... There's not a single... That's what I'm saying.

Carol definitely says it, but I do think misogy is part of it, but it's just like... It doesn't make anything okay. No. Oh, that actually is something that we should bring up out of all the different

places. We've got the one in Tampa, the one in Myrtle Beach. Of course, we've got Joe's in Oklahoma. Out of all the people that work at all these places, and all the volunteers, and it seemed all the people that went there, I don't think I saw a black person?

No. Yeah, no, they ain't fucking all this whole time. Jack was the only one. He came one time to buy his tiger. He put it on TV and he got to fuck it out. That's basically what it is. Like, black people don't fuck with tigers unless they're about to buy one. Yeah.

I cannot believe Shaq let them use that. But it was like... I don't think he could have stopped him because one was from a news clip. of him there and the other one was for him on ESPN or whatever. On D&T. Oh, Shat got a tiger? Of course Shack got tigers.

Everybody got tigers. That's why you gotta get a Lager. That's what you own thugs said. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's terrifying. Yeah. Everybody got Tams. Also, I just, because now I'm

too deep in it and I'm kind of mad at all y'all for making, oh, we get so deep in this because I couldn't watch. I couldn't finish it the first time that I tried to watch it because episode 5 when Travis Oh yeah that's brutal

for sure The gun with his head What a fucking I was like I got to take a minute to process Everything that I've seen Accident or purpose Girl that was an accident She literally said because you can hear it right off

Yeah because on the tape he was like This is a loaded blah blah blah blah And then you know his dumb ass was like Let me see Yeah Yeah Yeah But the theory

of like Carol back it up like oh you couldn't feed somebody a tiger because one tiger what are they going to eat a hundred pounds but first of all good thing you don't have just one tiger huh right yeah right second of all that's how predators

eat that's how these big critters eat like wolves and I think they say in the documentary like how many pounds of meat and stuff these tigers can eat but that's on regular basis that's not how they eat naturally wolves tigers, all these big predators eat the same way. It's feast and famine,

right? This is the easiest thing in the world to, like, logistically, that dude got to get fed. Right. Also, as Joe, just deprive a couple tigers of meat for a little while and then throw them your husband and that's that. Also, as Joe says,

Oh, you're saying tigers ate him? Yeah, she fed him. That's why she took off in the middle of the night and went and found her brother, which is what happened with that Albertson's run, where she was going to get milk product. She went and took off in the middle of the night to go find her brother, who was the sheriff,

to go and say, freak it out, something happened. And that's when the other sheriff drove her back to her apartment. Yeah. No, I agree with you. The 3 a.m. Albertson's run where she just happened to run into her estranged brother who just happened to be a law enforcement officer

in the same place she lived in. They weren't. That whole thing. She said they were. She said she had no relationship with it. I know. That's what I'm saying. That whole thing is.

Wait, do you think that he could be? You think he could be as strange? And that she just sought him out. And got him back in and put him back in the fold. Yeah, yeah. With all that money? Absolutely, yeah.

You know, you, you know, what I'm like to. You saw a DJ. He's like, we couldn't have had a relationship. We were six years apart. That's not far me and my brother are apart. We have more like me and my brother. It's safe. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. I didn't really know him. Oh, yeah. He said. lying. Yeah, you didn't leave it. You didn't know him because you left. Just like you left your daughter.

Yeah, my dad's 28 years older than me. We've hung out. Yeah. Okay. Do we end on a bad... Well, hey. Actually, I don't know if it was on everybody else's in, but on my end, y'all cut out a little bit.

Yeah, no, everything cut out. Okay. But, Caitlin, thanks for joining us. How's your quarantine going? How dare you ask? I think that's very private. Yeah, I know. I'm alone alone.

Like, I don't live, I live by myself in a little studio, and it is, it's very weird. I watch the window channel a lot, a lot every day. I've been luring crows to my house. How's that going? Pretty good. Pretty good. I got three. Nice.

Got three crows so far. Yeah, they're adolescents. You can't feed them every day. Otherwise, they get dependent. So you got to take a couple days off, but they've been coming to visit. Yeah. Oh, coming with a friend. facts, the crow facts.

I got a heart for critters. I just want to leave with this takeaway cop-s-saint shit. Hell no. Hell no, but hoes and no. You said it. Even when they have their whole job in front of them, they're still like, well, we just don't know. Yeah. Exactly. That was my thing, is that like, there was

as much evidence on her as there was on him. I feel like there was. I feel like there was a law on Joe, though. Joe said on his show every day. Every day. And shot a picture of her with a shotgun. But all buddy, even his old lady and like

the bridge club and the goddamn women's auxiliary down there in Tampa and all them motherfickers, they was all like, you know, he's been saying she's going to murder him. And then she turned in a note. He turned in a note and said, she going to murder me.

And he was like, like, absolutely guilty. Her speech. the will, the fact that she went and turned off everything in the trailer and got all the docket. Come on. Many of evidence. That's as much, that's as much, that's as much proof as having some old, oh boy from, you know, coming off a myth bench, being like, yeah, I was going to go killer, but then I didn't. Just a little bit more than that.

It didn't give me any money. That's not the only dollars. DJ, you are cheery. Picking their proof. Yes, that is equal amounts. But you lift out literally every night. He got on the internet. Every sick of that.

I was like, I'm a killer. Hey, Carol. I got dynamite. That's my gun. Hope you like that mailbox full of snakes. Oh, that was a lot. That's not evidence. That's free speech.

That's free speech. That's the free space. Snakes in your mailbox is protected. In Florida, I think it actually is. protected right. Your mailman? That's what standard ground is all about. Box snakes.

Get it out of here. How many stamps do you think they had to put on each snake? Jamila. All them snakes. I got all these forever stamps. They sent it through the traditional mail. They did. They went to FedEx and shipped it overnight.

Yeah. I got a box of snakes. They put it in a vegetable box and nobody in Florida would touch it. just handed the lady at the fucking post office of snake with a bunch of stamps on it there listen you can't you can't label this snakes because somebody was feeling it in Florida yeah yeah yeah I make sure it gets to the proper recipient yeah all right well uh Caitlin tell everybody how to find you at Uncle Kate across all platforms at Uncle Kate across all platforms

Thank you very much. Thank you so much for having me. I'll be judging a drag show on the 6th. Come and watch is called Learn the Words Bitch by Silver Lake's icon Tony Soto. So come and hang out and watch a drag show, baby. Hell yeah. Caitlin Warehouser, everybody. Thank you all for joining us.

See next time on Tiger by the Tail. Gew! Esh-ee later. Yes, you later. Well, in Wood, Oklahoma's where we meet our Tiger King. He's got them monkey champs, and Tiger King. Cubs the keyiest thing you've seen he's got all his meth head buddies and they're all working for free serving cheap to Totoino's pizza covered in rock a Walmart meet.

Then of course there's old Doc Anto. The tigers made him rich. And don't forget about Carol Baskins. Man, we fucking hate that bitch. We got a tiger by the tail, baby. Tiger by the tail, we got a tiger by the tail, baby. Tiger by the tail, we got a tiger by the tail, baby. Tiger by the tail, we got a tiger by the tail, baby.

Tacker by the tail. We've got a. Tacker by the tail, baby. Tackle by the tail.