wellRED podcast - Tiger By The Tale #7 - Dethroned

Episode Date: April 14, 2020

Wherein we try to adjust to Life After Joe Exotic, and cope with the inconvenient truth of that bitch Carole Baskins ultimate victory. The incomparable and hilarious Carmen Morales joins us to give the one thing this whole deal has been missing: a Floridians perspective!

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cubs that keep his thing he's seen he's got all his meth head buddies and they're all working for free serving cheap to Toteino's pizza covered in rock the Walmart meat. Then, of course, there's old Doc Antle. The tigers made him rich. And don't forget about Carol Baskins, man, we fucking hate that bitch. We got a tiger by the tail, baby. Tiger by the tail, we got a tiger by the tail, baby. Tiger by the tail, we got a.

Tiger by the tail, baby. Tiger by the tail, we got a, tiger by the tail, baby. Tiger by the tail, we got a, tiger by the tail, baby. Well, here we are at the finish line. everybody what a wild ride it's been episode seven the finale of tiger king episode seven is called dethroned and i feel it is aptly named but we open on a new beginning episode seven we we open with uh the next step in the gw zoo jeff lowe is uh not yet done fucking these animals over he's uh reopening the zoo in a whole new situation a whole new setup

but he needs a new partner now that Joe is out of the picture and as far as Jeff Lowe is concerned, there is but one man for that job. Can't hear. Y'all hit. All right. Sorry, Joe. Let's try again.

Did you share your sound? Nope. I didn't know that I'd have to re-click that goddamn checkbox. Why would it unclick it for me? there's part of me that don't want to edit this now because you're getting frustrated, it's funny. Well, that's fine. Why would it unclick to click?

I didn't unclick to click. You didn't uncliq to click. I know. Why did it unclick to click? You click the click. What is the deal? What's the deal? Click's who's uncliking.

Anyone can just take the clicks. I don't even think there was a click, Jerry. All right. Yeah, fucking leave it in. This is what I meant to show. Also, I have now clicked back 10 seconds. Fuck it. Here we go.

God damn it. See, I'm smarter than most people. They say you can't get nothing down with a monkey on your back, so you put them on your fucking front, and you can still get shit done. God damn right. Hell yeah, baby. Can't argue with that, can you?

You cut it off right before he shotgun smoke into a monkey's mouth. Yeah, dude. Well, I mean, we could go back if I don't want to say that. I mean, I just, that's just. You're right. That is of nothing. You are correct. But so, yeah, in Jeff Lowe's mind, there was but one man for this job.

But you know what? That might literally be true. This might be the literal only man for this job. But the monkey heck himself, Tim Stark. What do you all think about this burgeoning partnership? I think DJ's got off on Tim Stark. I knew what was coming. I mean, yeah.

I mean, it surprises me that Tim would got in cahoots with Joe. Tim being such an upstanding. Right. Monkey citizen. Yeah. I would argue that it's proof that Tim is and monkey people are kind of decent because his only problem I've noticed so far is trusting people. Right.

Right. You're absolutely right. And I saw it coming. I will say, well, I don't want to get too far ahead in the episode. I mean, right, at this point in time, I'm a pro. I'm pro Tim Stark. and oh i remain pro tim stark i think yeah yeah absolutely okay let's come out he's fucking monkeys tomorrow everybody bothers me that he that he is dealing with he's such a i mean he's like such a side

character that's not in there like enough to where like every time we keep having the conversation of like we were some of the more redeeming people i always forget to mention him but yeah i mean he really he hits for me yeah monkey man hit yeah dude let's that at the beginning first episode monkey people hit tiger phopas he does actively because it's sex slaves, but I mean, you know, I get that. He who is without sin. And he's also not doing anything nefarious to achieve that. He just jokingly says, I'm wondering what Doc is doing to these bitches.

You're right. But like DJ said, and that's kind of what I meant, like, as far as the partnership itself, but DJ was like, I just hate to see Tim getting, you know, caught up in all this. me. But like, my point is, everybody, there's no way

this is going to end up just being a smashing success story. No, no, this is like in the 80s when the mega powers of Hulk Hogan and Macho Man

came together. Everyone was like, oh man, but it's like, dog, you know that this is set up to just end and, fuck,

it's chaos. So they need a new, they need a new site for the zoo. They found this area. They're clearing it all out. We'll move all the animals and stuff because, you know,

shit is going to going down at the original side of the zoo. The fucking authorities have come in. They're, you know, tearing the place apart, gathering evidence and all this stuff, digging shit up. And in the course of doing this, I personally thought this was pretty wild right here. Let's see if I fucked this up again. But I found this to be an interesting little tidbit from the story right here.

They said that Joe had shot. five tigers and they dug them up and found the skulls. Only five skulls? Like, there were only five tiger skulls at this fucking place. I'm not, I'm like, I mean, yeah, I am, you know, it is funny, but I also am not really joking. Like, doesn't it seem like there should be way more tiger skulls in this place? I don't think, listen, I will never argue Joe Exotic's a great person, but I generally don't think he wanted to kill. the tigers that he did kill.

I think the reason there's only five is he, A, wants to sell tigers more than he would kill him. And then B wants to keep him alive more than he wants to kill. Or I bet you he kept some of the skulls because that's a rad ashtray. Hell yeah, it is. That was the first thing I thought,

man, I wish I could give me a tiger skull. Right, like keep the fucking, get married the rest of them. God damn keep that skull. Well, maybe he just sold the skulls, dude. I just feel like, dude, fucking euthanizing them or what. I'm not up on protocols for tiger disposition, dead tiger disposition. But I just feel like an establishment like this that runs for this amount of time

with this level of animals, even from just purely innocuous means or reasons, you would end up with more tiger remains to me. Don't tiger them to be like 40? I mean, dude, I have no idea. But, you know, they get sick just like anything else. Dude, it's a lot of animals for a long time. Like five of them being dead just don't see anything. Like, he will totally murder a human.

I don't believe in my heart Joe Exotic wants to kill tigers. Like, maybe five, they found five because that's how many died. Although, though later in an episode, something somebody I trust said made me think he did shoot him. I think that they're having, and the reason why you even have that question, and one of the questions that, like, they should really think about before they let anybody just have an exotic animal,

is that there was no licensed very, veterinarian to speak of at a tiger farm. Right. Not many licenses, period. No, no. Zero licenses, as far as I can tell. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Every type of license has been a fish and license.

There may have been a fishing license among the people. I doubt it. Dude, they shop the fish. You need a license for that in Oklahoma. I mean, I definitely feel like if you own a monkey, then you should be, I have to take the dad. monkey to a hospital to a licensed vet of some sort.

You know what I'm saying? So it's, you know, they could. Dude, I'm about to feel like a monkey could just go to a regular doctor. Yeah. I'm kind of not kidding. I thought that's what DJ was saying. Well, yeah, I'm saying a licensed person should always be involved. A licensed veterinarian.

I genuinely thought DJ said you should have to take a monkey to a hospital or a vet for now. Oh, my, okay. So, you probably did. this is one of the things that I've been waiting to bring up. I didn't even blink. I was like, yeah. It's one of the things I've been waiting to bring it up to Drew this whole time. It gets into it right here.

It starts with the tiger skulls, and they start listing off, you know, they found, you know, reason to believe he killed all these animals. He was breeding them. He was selling them, the tiger cubs, all this. And Doc Antle shows up at one point to say, like, look, here's what's going on here. They didn't have enough on their,

murder for hire case, so they started trumping up all these animal charges just to stick him or whatever. And that all made me wonder. And again, I've been waiting this whole series of hours to ask you this, because I want to understand it. This, all this shit was illegal the whole time and none of it was at all a secret ever, right? I mean, how, why did it only just now even become a problem? He was up front moving animals all over the place. He was up front with a tiger, He was up front with the documentary crew about, like, pricing and stuff like that. But you notice you never saw him sell a tiger cub on the street. Yeah, but even Breeding him, even Breedham's illegal, isn't it?

Isn't that part of it too? And like, where was he getting the Cubs from? I have no idea if it is or it isn't. Like, I mean, that's what I'm saying. Like, I don't know what was illegal or illegal. First of all, if it is, you got to figure it's either a federal crime, the feds ain't going to come in there and bust. You know what I mean?

Like, whatever. They got fucking, you know, literal scarf-faced shit to deal with. And then at the state level, I don't know. Like, why would Oklahoma have a law about that? So, I mean, the true answer is, I don't know what the law was, Trey. But he also got more and more reckless as the documentary proceeded. You know, he talked about seven tiger cubs and blah, blah, blah, in the beginning, but you never saw him do it.

Then by the end, it was very clear he was breeding him. So, you know, I think. what Doc Antale's getting out is you're digging around this dude's farm finding dead tigers and accusing him of shooting him. Where's your proof that he shot him or youth? Like, you know, his point and it's well taken in my opinion, this is how the feds and generally speaking prosecutors do it. When you have somebody and you can charge them with more than one thing, you charge them with absolutely everything you can. Right. So that when it's time to plea, you can get them to plea on what you wanted to get them on in the first place.

What did it? Murder being what they needed to put him on and not Tiger Murder. But that's what he's saying. They got him. It started with the murder thing, but then they also had all this other shit they could put on him. So they did just to like strengthen the overall thing case they had and leverage they had on him and all that. But I guess my thing is, I guess right, yes.

But I guess my thing is I think that there should be laws against fucking breeding and selling exotic animals. because the whole industry is fucked up. I think that laws should exist for that. But like this right here makes me feel like clearly they are not really given a fuck about unless you do something else. So it's like what, I don't know, the whole thing is just kind of weird. Unless you're moving them on a big scale, which he seemed to be, but again, he was trying to hide it. I mean, he clearly talked about selling Tiger Cubs but never allowed the cameras to show him doing it. why would the feds give a fuck?

I mean, obviously they wouldn't turn their head, but like if you somehow got a hold of a tiger tray and you were just breeding them, I mean, you got a tiny yard. But my point is just, who? Whose job is it to do that? I know, right. It's the wildlife.

I guess it's those agents that apparently have as much authority as the FBI. Well, they're going after big timers. I do think Joe Exotic is clearly somebody who might be a big timer, but for the most part, you know, like lemur papers. They found old fat boys' lemur papers. They just used that to lean on him.

Sorry, Corey's fat, fuck-ass froze for a second. I still froze? I just unfroze. No. Just unfroze. Okay, I said... You're a microwave burrito, baby. These people in the federal bureau

of investigating fucking tigers and shit, like, what is... Like, what... I'm saying what is this, no pun intended, what is this bigger fish to fry that they got than illegally breeding fucking lions and tigers like some. Yeah. It's like a big, they're too busy. Joe is on their radar.

I have no doubt about that. The radar, I mean, you should like, how are they taking down if they're not taking this number? What's bigger than that? Yeah. Like, what's bigger than a zoo would know? I would assume. I would assume.

Mark. Like, that should be, that shouldn't be way. I would assume they deal with, they also deal with, like, fucking chicken breeding and the safety aspect of that. I mean, those folks brought up the USDA numerous times. I would say those agents work closely, uh, on stings and for situations like,

I mean, I'm trying to think of an example, but like when you have a chicken farm, you can't just like fucking feed them whatever you want. And these giant corporations and businesses are probably way up higher on the list. Yeah, right. And one dude allegedly selling tigers, how the fuck do you even prove that? They ain't fucking with them.

They, not the giant corporations, you know what I mean? They got all the money. Right. Yeah, they get paid off by Tyson to go fuck with Johnny's chickens in bail, Arkansas or whatever. And that's what they're doing. That's my assumption. Also, also my assumption, Corey, is there's like three of the.

those agents in every state, maybe one. Right. So not the FBI. The Oklahoma agent is dealing with cows mostly and is probably best friends with Joe Exotic. Right. I just feel like it's a big deal. It's a big, I feel like it's a fucking big way. It is.

But they're just not sitting around looking for tigers. What art. I mean, these aren't supposed to be tigers. And you should tell. folks. It's a tiger's a fuck out of here. And also that whole battle in D.C. between Doc Cantell and Carol Baskin,

I don't know the details of that, but I would say a lot of it had to do with the stuff we're talking about. Whatever Doc Cantell's getting away with is legal. I guarantee that that old boy, because that old boy, he's like a lobbyist. He went straight to D.C. and changed the goddamn laws. He didn't fuck around.

We're breaking them. He wrote them. Oh, special agent Johnson from the Federal Bureau of investigating tigers and shit. That needs to be a shirt. FBI, T-A-F, T-A-S. I wish that our podcast had a young... It's Tits. I could just be like, young Jamie, make that a shirt right now.

Do that. It's F-B-Tits. No. Tass. Tigers and shit. T-A-S. Oh, I thought you said the investigation of tigers and shit. If you leave out of of and shit.

and that's it. Yeah, you let you put the the in there, but I'm okay with that. FB. Tits. F. B. Tits. F. B. Tits. All right. And everybody who breeds Tigers except for Joe Exotic has fat bitch tits,

so it checks out. Hell yeah. So this is when everybody got to start going to court. And you know this cast of characters, that does not hit. We started seeing a little montage of that action, Starting with one of our personal favorites here as a character, I mean.

Lost a lot of weight. None of my pants fit me anymore. That's another thing. I had to buy pants. I haven't wore pants in 20 years. I've got to buy business attire. I keep telling myself over and over, I'm involved in a federal murder-for-hire plot.

Who'd have thought? Just because I stopped by a zoo to feed a bear one day. He said he's gaining weight, but I bet he's still only way. at 125 because he ain't got no legs. Yeah. Legs weigh a lot. How are his legs not kind of counted as pants? He's just got clown pants.

Well, yeah, but those ain't his business legs, though. He needs some cat. Those are his casualty social legs. That motherfucker's got to go to the prostate place. I need some pleaded legs, please. You got them khaki legs. But, yeah, I just thought, we don't. did we get his like or just or at any point was that early?

No, we find out he's there one day. I know that's what I'm saying. He's like, I want to hear the, like, so he just stopped by. Like Joe found a lot of these people like destitute at bus stops and homeless and shit. But like Ricky said he just stopped by two feet a bear because, you know, that would have. And Joe walked up and was like, hey, you ain't got no legs. You want to work for me? No, he walked his legs off working.

Yeah, right. Yeah, he had some real shitty legs when he got there. Listen, I insist we take a brief moment at least to discuss. This man also announced at this point very casually that he has left his wife because he's tired of being unhappy. First of all, I screamed. That just hit for me so hard. Second of all, who gets divorced in Gaines' way?

Like, that's a bitch deserved to leave her. She wasn't feeding his ass. Right. Also, like, man, what type of woman was she if she was the source of unhappiness in his life? That's what I'm saying. He left her. You got left by insane clown legs. Yeah.

Oh, man, that is. Yeah, you got to leave that one off the resume. He walked his legs off and didn't walk away from you, and now he's leaving. Also, he showed up in that, like, trailer park twisted metal car with a skeleton riding shotgun and shit. That hit, too. Yeah, it did. I wonder if she gets one of his legs in the divorce.

Oh, hell. So, within check. back in with Josh Dahl, that fat, dumb and don't hit guy that was Joe's campaign manager, tapped personally by Joe Exot to be his campaign manager. And this all don't hit for him because, you know, he's libertarian. He don't play no Fed bullshit. And he just puts it out there. He says, you know what?

Fuck the feds. What's y'all's general opinion on this, dude? No, he didn't. He said, fuck the feds. Pause. But, yeah, I mean, I testified. Right. Yeah.

I don't he say that. I think at one point he said, I may be misremember and he's like, I mean, I'm a libertarian, so it's fuck the feds. But if I have to choose between the feds and this, then I mean, yeah, like, you know, giant douche turd sandwich, go turd sandwich, I guess. I mean, who can blame him, man? He just got walking to the biggest fucking. Everybody can blame him.

This is why libertarians are full of fucking shit. How did you think it was going to end up? How do these people ever think it's going to end up any different than this? These are the feds. You can't sit here and tell me fuck the feds until it gets hard. You can't sit here and tell me I don't want to deal with the government until I got to protect myself. Everybody who's ever dealt with the government only did it to protect themselves.

We only invented a government to protect ourselves. Nobody wanted a government. We just had to accept that we needed one. This motherfucker got to live his life thinking, well, I don't need one. and then as soon as shit got hard, he fucking needed one. This is why libertarians, unless they die in a shootout, unless they die in a shootout, unless they die in a shootout, every single one of them is full of shit.

No, do not track. No, I agree. I agree. They're fucking cowards. And that boy, you can't put that. Take away that political ID, take that, throw that in the trash and just realize he's an old, oh boy, in goddamn rule. Oklahoma working at the Walmart who gets whist into the fucking trashes,

tiger meth fucking craziest shit that's ever fucking been. And like, man, fuck whatever your politics are, whatever's normal. Throw all that shit out the goddamn window. I agree with you. I'm saying. I got to have salute that old way. I kind of think.

I agree with you, DJ. What I'm saying is if your whole politics is I'll never do that. A, that's all that shit is. and B, if your whole politics is, I don't need the government, and I'm not afraid of the government and fuck the government, then immediately, as soon as it gets hard, you're like, nope, I'm going to cooperate with the government, then you ain't.

Hard. You're a little bit more than just getting hard. To defend that guy a little bit, not much, but like, I feel like if you're like a hardcore libertarian, and then you go basically live on Joe Exotic's zoo for several months, and you go, oh, this is what it would be like if there was no law and order in regulation. You might like kind of shift back.

Except that he stayed. Even when the campaign ended, he stayed there. That was his utopia. I mean, yeah, dude. And he was somebody there where he had never been anybody. And maybe he had on, um, and he owed that man to silence. You're right, DJ.

You're right, DJ. He was somebody there. He don't just let people be the hand-o manager at Walmart. You're right about that. You're right, DJ. He was somebody there. And the man who gave him that and made him somebody there, as soon as it got hard,

he sold him down the goddamn river. I mean, I'm still not convinced that he went and testified, but I think that he would. I think that he would. And I feel like it's sad that he would get into that situation, but I don't think that that situation is normal in any way. I don't think that's a normal situation. I understand that.

The choice. You know what I'm saying? There's nothing normal about the whole goddamn situation. Yes, I know what you're saying, DJ. a goddamn thing to me. That's my point. It never meant a goddamn thing. I know it's not normal.

I know it's not normal. I know it's not normal. I know it's not normal. That's not my point. My point is these people who claim to be libertarians, they think that their whole life is going to be, well, I'm going to do it all on my own. I don't need anybody.

Well, guess what? He couldn't do it on his fucking own. I've never met every libertarian. I don't know what he was like. It's all of them. That's literally their thing. I don't know who they are. I do.

They're libertarians. That's like that's like saying, I don't know if every Christian believes in Jesus. Tell me one. You know, I just don't know if it's fair to say every Christian believes in Jesus. That just seems silly, Drew. But I mean, you said believes in Jesus. That's my point. They're all hypocrites too.

Okay. God, that is a great Drew. so. So that, right. You were talking about him testifying against him or whatever. And this whole, this whole little like sequence here where all of our, you know,

characters we've already met that worked for Joe and she are showing up at the courthouse. And again, they're tore all the hell having to go in a courthouse and I get it. Cowie is all out of sorts. But like, correct me if I'm wrong. Didn't it? Didn't they pretty much all say

that they were going to testify against him or had to provide such testimony. Isn't that accurate? Well, so what I'm saying, I mean, that's indicative of some shit, you know what I mean? Like, isn't it? Or is it just that, like,

they just really had no choice in the matter. You know what I'm saying? I found it to be indicative, especially when they're interviewing Cowie, and he, this is what I was talking about earlier, he pretty much says that Joe did kill them tigers. He says, I mean, he's, Cali gets all tore up because,

according to him, Joe shot Cuddles. Cuddles the tiger was killed. And I think, Cowley's very, again, Cowley gives a shit. I don't like he's lying. I think that that was the most indicative aspect of all of this is how they would all roll on him. He didn't have any friends, and that means he didn't deserve him. Well, hell, no, he didn't. Well, but, well, but DJ, I thought you've been kind of, you know, going to back for Joe a little bit, at least legally here.

And now not having any friends is not a, something you can be charged with. But I'm saying, I'm saying, yeah. I mean, the government fucking, they're the enemy and this, they are Joe Exotic, yeah, probably not a whole lot of people who want to be as friends. He probably fucked over and did some crazy shit to a lot of people.

It's probably really hard getting close to him and like really give it a shit, but you probably give a shit about the tigers and stuff and give a fuck about working there. But I'm sure that, I mean, you know, he wasn't very popular, but the government. Not by the end.

And I think also it has to do with by the end of this whole thing. Because I have mentioned before that, like, Joe, you know, stopped giving a fuck about the animals, which a lot of these people, because he got so obsessed and wrapped up with all the carol shit and all the other bullshit and politics and all that, that he stopped giving a fuck about the animals. And I think a lot of these people,

the Rinkies and cowies and them, like, that ain't it. No, that ain't it for them, right? I think that's where he lost a lot of them. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's why I was saying that, so they still care about the tigers. It's not like anybody really too tough gave a fuck about him.

However, they probably still didn't want to see the motherfucker go to jail. And the motherfucker ain't deserved to go to jail because, I mean, there should have been regulations in place where he could have never had that fucking being able to be in that opportunity to hurt those animals and cause the chaos that he was able to cause. You know what I mean? Like all these people, all this. They should be, there should be an tiger alert memo that. comes out to the wildlife, some fuzzy nut motherfuckers,

the guy that's check and get the tigers to fuck out of where they're not supposed to be, which is America. Yeah. Which is America. Which is America. Yeah. What do y'all think about if you got, and there's a very easy answer to this, you know, like DJ said, you should have a vet around.

But if you got a tiger that, like, sometimes animals have to be put down, you know, just that does happen. if you have a tiger and that happens, like, Joe Exotic, is there any kind of like Ned Stark angle to it of like, you know, it should be me? Yeah.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Is there any belief in to that and all? Well, dude, not for nothing, but like I know plenty of people who aren't in, well, I mean,

Mark's kind of insane, but like, that aren't like this level of bad shit. And saying that like when their dog gets sick, they absolutely feel that way about it. like I've seen a dude just hit his dog in the head with a shovel, like not to kill it because like it was sick. And it was like, dude, if we go to vet,

they're just going to euthanize it. This will kill him immediately. I should be the one to do it. And yes, all the kids and us stood around and watched him do it. Jesus Christ. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Chief Smoker Bowl. And, dude, I mean, yeah, one hit with the shovel knocked him out.

The second one definitely killed him on account of his brain exploded. but like I feel like I know people that they take their dog out and shoot them instead of going to the vet so like why wouldn't a tiger man feel that way right yeah I mean every dog we've ever had that didn't run away or die in the woods like every dog that we've had that needed to be put down my dad did it he did it with a gun right because Jesus Christ but I say Jesus Christ no no shovels a bit much well you just reminded me of a story and this is going to be a hard story to fucking tell this is more than that memory Yeah, buddy. It's about to get bad. Go ahead. I was probably eight, which means my brother was 12, which means my cousin Jonathan was probably 16, maybe 17.

And my aunt Nancy told us to put her dog down because it was sick. And Jonathan decided to hang it. Oh, that ain't what? And I will say not to defend anybody. I mean, he was a kid. I don't think he thought it through because. everybody's face, including his, and then my brother shot it while I was hanging there to end what was happening.

That's a fucked up pingata. Because I don't think it was like, this is a way to do it instead of shooting him. And then it happened. And then it was like, oh, my fucking God. And then my brother popped it to put it out of its misery in the middle of that scenario. Pulled the old Panama Penaata. The old poop Panama Penaughta. All right.

That was hard to hear. Yeah. It was the largest now to relive. It was hard just now to relive. You know what? There aren't be a fucking regulated. There aren't be a guy who gets a list. DJ's right.

So just a little aside here as you're going through all this. We're talking about where everybody stands on the case and the parts they had to play and everything. We've mentioned earlier before about like the scenarios in which people are interviewed, Seth, just being in a junk, y'all. and shit like that. And then this kind of takes that to the next level, in my opinion. I am.

I'm going to fucking murder lady. And he thought you're going to get it fucking probation or nothing. I hate to be a part of this shit. Wish it wasn't. Well, at least he's remorseful about it, you know. But like, dude, I mean, what the fuck is this? It looked like he was taking his last bath. It was sincerely my least favorite part of this whole thing.

By a lot. Because I was like, you either got to explain that to me. Or you did that as a choice as the documentary. And like you told him to do that. Are you kidding? That's a pervert. He was trying to fuck who's on the other side of camera. Well, then to explain that, you know what I mean?

Like, let's ask him why. But if you're filming a dude and he just starts doing that, you're not going to go, hey, buddy. I mean, it could be a situation where they were like, you know, where Alan for some reason had a heart out because he had a date or something. And he was like, look, I got to take the shower. He had a hooker. He had to murder.

I've got to get out of here, boy. And they were just like, well, I guess we'll just have to do the bath and the filming at the same time if we can't do one or the others. So just hop in there. So, I mean, I think, Drew, I totally hear what you're saying, but that's kind of my point is like, Really, this has happened a ton of times throughout the documentary where everything you just said would still apply.

It's like, you either got to explain why this is this or like you want it to be this and are, you know, building a ton. But this is just the most egregious example of that. What's the other one? I definitely think it was. I mean, so again, Saff is in a junkyard. But that's when she lived. Man, that would hit, dude.

I get to a mac. Man, it would be awesome to hang out with Saff in a junk. junkyard all day. I'm not saying it, don't hit. I'm saying, like, think about most documentaries you see and, like, the backdrop for interviews. And yes, John being shirtless, John being shirtless for his big documentary debut, you know, and everything. I definitely think that most of that was a directorial decision in the sense of, like, they were shot like WWE vignettes. They're like, you're the undertaker. You would be in a graveyard. But the rest of them made sense. He's in a trailer bathtub with a do-rag and a pair of swim trunks on.

But, I mean, to his character, that does kind of make sense. Like, he only showers in his swim trunks because in prison he had to protect his butt. I mean, maybe. I think he's trying to fuck whoever ever. Or again, I'm, don't dismiss the theory of there was a timing issue and they needed to get that interview, but he also needed to take a bath and there wasn't time for both. And he was like, well, God damn, I'll just keep my trunks on and we can do it. I thought you were just trying to hit.

Now I'm starting to think you actually believe in this theory. This makes a strict calendar. Okay, Drew? I think he was trying to skis up on a cameraman. Alan left for three months and wasn't even sure how long he was gone. Dude, I think, I mean, I think DJ is probably the closest to, I think it's definitely the director to, at the very least, the director, like, 100% is aware of all of these situations and it's like, oh, this will make it juicier,

for sure. but as far as Alan goes, I think he's just, dude, this is a weird motherfucker. Yeah, he weird, though. He weird. And like, you know, I'd sooner lasso the moon and figure out why exactly he decided to take a bath except for that.

In his mind, it was like, dude, he might have thought it was a power play, some kind of alpha move or something. He might have been trying to fuck. Or, hell, hell. Do you think it's like he saw some raw footage and was like, I bet motherfuckers don't think I take showers? And so he's like,

How about we get some footage of me in a bath? That way we can dismiss that whole thing. Also in this scenario, Corey, was he tired of looking bald in those scenes? Like, why did he wear a do-rag then? Yeah, that I don't know. I don't know, man. He might have just forgot that he had the do-rag on. Like, sometimes I forget that I have a hat on because it's just been on for so long.

Buddy, there's nothing I want more in my life than I accidentally walking on you taking a bath and you have a fucking hat on. I mean, I've done it. Amber made fun of me on our honeymoon because we had a pot tub in our room and we got butt neck and got in it, but I still had my hat on and she's like, you know, it's just me and you here, right? And I was like, it didn't even compute. Like, I just keep

it on. Yeah. So we, you know, we're back in the trial and all this stuff. And they say at one point, or multiple people say that, like, you know, Joe testified and people were like, nobody expected that. Nobody expected Joe to actually testify. And that was another one where I was like,

wait, were? Like, because he ain't shut up the whole time. You're going to say something. That motherfucker's stay testifying. That's all he do is testify. I got to be honest, I was surprised to hear that his lawyer didn't want him to. I understand Joe's crazy.

But your only shot at when in this case is for the jury to believe him. Or an insanity play. Right. And either way, you're going to need him to talk for those. So I was surprised you're that. I would have definitely put him on the stand. Like I said, I'd have put Jeff Lowe on a stand too. whole thing would have been Joe saying. I'm more surprised about Joe didn't. I'm more surprised that he didn't. Joe. He did. Jeff. Jeff. Yeah. Right. Well, that's why the feds clearly didn't want him to. He clearly would like could have helped their case, but they were afraid he was going to hurt it. Call him up there and ask about his shady deals and then blame his ass. I'm pissed at Joe Exotic's lawyer. Yeah. So somehow despite Joe testifying, uh, it still did not end well for him for him. Uh,

weirdly. But, you know, there's another little tidbit that came out in this was, and actually, this was how I interpreted it. I'm pretty sure this is what they were saying. But that it, it indicated at one point that that $3,000 that he gave Alan came from the donations he got from that Thanksgiving dinner that he cooked. Hilarious. That's a hustle right there, ball.

Yeah, yeah, it is. You can't, yeah, can't knock the hustle for sure. We all got to be grateful. stuff. He's grateful for killing that bitch, Carol Baskins. Gather here for a good cause. Cowie is now working at Redneck Haven, cooking burgers. I mean, that's all right. Hell yeah, that's all right. Yeah, man.

But it's a pretty somber sequence here, you know, it's not great. But not everybody's upset. Some people are literally popping bottles. Wait, did we skip over? When good things happen, that definitely was a champagne and brie evening. If ever I would leave you, it couldn't be in springtime. Seeing you in springtime, I never could go.

Boys, what hits less on earth than that little segment right there? Oh, my. Watching him get fucked in the butt with a dildo with it last. I've never, guarantee you it happens. I have never in my life wanted to say a word that I'm not allowed to say right now. I wish that we just had that one for like five more minutes. Oh, my God.

Jesus. But it's also like, it's just like, dude, there, I don't know. It would be sweet if she weren't a psychopath. Well, it also is like to me. It's not fucking out of his goddamn mind, too. I know. Sure. I would also like to point out.

That's what I'm saying. If she was a sweet old lady, I'd be like, look at that, dude. Man, he's a smooth, some bitch. But knowing who and what she is, he's crazy too. Okay. I would also like, I mean, you know, who am I to say that someone should not have a champagne and brie evening? I certainly have had many.

I've had champagne and brie mornings. Live your fucking life. But just the way that he said it was a shit. Like, don't say that. That's, ugh, it was a shame. Well, I was about to say with the cavend, out of who am I to talk about like actual white people because I'm not I'm trash but like I feel like they they are like good examples of like he they think this some boogey

shoozy shit and they're boozy but that like they're even frozen shrimp actual rothschilds or whatever like actual Connecticut yacht motherfuckers would look at them not even not even fucking rock child Connecticut yacht motherfuckers me me right I know that don't hit And I'm not even, I'm so far removed from what you just said, but like, I fucking know that that's so, ugh, fuck. It was frozen shrimp. I was about to say, they're just sitting there eating. And they're in Florida. Drinking $9 brute, extra dry fucking wine, like, yes, it's a champagne and brie.

Guarantee you, that brie barely had a rind on it. I guarantee you. I guarantee you right. Also, in that scene, they're eating frozen shrimp. Y'all live in Florida. Just go to a seafood restaurant. Well, I mean, you know, that's conjecture. We don't really know.

But yeah, you're probably right. What's conjecture? Well, I mean, we don't know. I mean, yeah, it's not like we saw the frozen bag of shrimp. I know, but the way it cooked up and the red on the tail, and like that was boiled, whole cooked, bought it at the store shrimp. No, you're right. They don't hit.

Like, because if they bought it themselves, the head would have still been on it. And if they pulled the head off, they would have peeled the tail off too. Yeah, they fucking suck. Drew, you were. Also, he sings like. Rick. Yeah. Yes.

What do you think that I skipped? Because I very well may have. What was it? Is that the last we see of Cowie? I think so. What's Callie's first name? Eric. Yeah.

So you didn't talk about, Cali was super fucked up right there, right? Yeah, he was high, boy. Like, man, buddy, he was on pills. Oh, yeah, yeah, yes. Yeah, it was smack. Yeah, that was definitely. Yeah, that boy got a, he on that horse, boy.

Yeah. And when he, like, faded back onto the bed and he had that stuffed tiger beside him, my heart broke into three pieces. Well, and you know what, man, that, again, that's another thing that, so we said yesterday, or in the episode before, that when, you know, Joe left Eric stayed, and that said a lot about him because that made us believe, like, he actually cares about the tigers.

Now that tigers are completely removed from his life, he's back on the fucking white pony. So I mean, like, this man truly needs tigers in his life. I'm trying to. I mean, it's like, man, dude, and I can always say this from, like, having dogs and stuff. Like, you feel that motherfucker needs you and, like, when it doesn't seem to be, if you get into yourself in a situation where you just got out of fucking jail and goddamn, you know what I'm saying?

Now, all of a sudden, you got all this responsibility. You feel like you are fucking somebody, man. God damn, man, it sucks. Don't give somebody that kind of hope. Get them out. Tigers up out of here. Yeah. Take the hope away.

Yeah, yeah. Get the house gone. This is now where we check back in with, you know, the pieces of shit on the other side, the whole thing we see. Carol and Mitch McConnell pop of bottles. And then we check in on Jeff Lowe, who's also doing great. He's expecting, he and his wife are expecting. Real heartwarming moment that we alluded to already where he takes a very active role

in securing the, you know, childcare for his unborn infant when he personally makes it a point to select the nanny for the baby. So the guy's not all bad, you know. Yeah. What a fucking skis ball. What a sleep. Okay. Yeah. I thought you were about to play a clip. I thought you were setting yourself up. It's so gross. To play a clip because of the way you were saying it. The motherfucker went on adult finder to find a goddamn nanny. Right. Yes. Obviously, the assumption is anybody this is seen it. When he is picking a nanny,

he totally is up front about how the number one criteria is that they have to look like, you know, a fucking, somebody wants to fuck for sure. Like, he ain't checking no credentials or nothing. It's stomach turning. It is stomach turning.

He's just sitting there just like, he's showing the camera pictures of these women and stuff, and he's just talking about how like that. But he's singing there. Because that's usually the opposite, I feel like for most married man, Like when they're, like, not that it's right, but like if there's a couple candidates for

Nanny and one of them's like super banging hot, they're like, phew, this might be a problem. We better go with Mrs. Doubtfire over here. Yeah, but I mean, no, I, you know, yes, it's just part for the course for this guy, but it's just really hammering home the specific type of piece of shit that he is, which is a little bit of a different type of piece of shit than our next buddy, Mr. Garrison, James Garrison, we check back in with. And as we've said multiple times before, this man, he knows what he's about, you know.

They don't make no qualms about it. He is into a few things. Here we go. You know, and I don't think Joe will be in a cell alone. I think other people are going, too. I mean, they don't know what I'm going to do. I don't think I'm finishing this. Turn that shit off for a minute.

Dude, he looks like if Wilson, the volleyball from Castaway just turned into a person actually, like a witch cast a spell on it. Dude, this motherfucker just riding his fucking fat skiing to snitch on some more people. Yeah, just snitching, God. Just a fucking, dude, that's what I'm saying. He loves two things, snitching and jet skiing. He ain't bullshitting about either one of them. Like anybody that's ever snatched was like,

I bet I can get a jet ski with all this snitch, man. But yeah, man, he just been, like, he's just so up, he just takes such obvious pleasure in it. He's like,

yeah, I think I might have some more work left to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think I may need to tattle some more. We'll see. They don't know what I'm going to do next.

It's a power play for him, right? Yeah. That's a psychological. that dude's got like a psychological fucking problem. He's a fat boy. Jet skis. Yeah. He's a fat boy who was probably also a nerd, you know, growing up in an old boy,

Oklahoma. Yeah, I absolutely see him as the type that got bullied a shit ton by every type of person. And now when he has the chance to tell on them, it's like, fuck yeah. Yeah, he got bullied, but he was also like he had money, so he hung out. You know, he was football team adjacent. And as long as, you know, the autistic kid was there for him to shit. on. Do we know that he grew up with money? I was just assumed. It's just assumed

because he has so much shit now. But it might be all him stolen credit cards he got accused of at one point in the doc. Right. So, again, we're checking in on some of the bags of shit here. And I know we've been back and forth on this guy, but at this point is when they, in my opinion, very strongly

imply that Bhagavan Doc Antel has been murdering Tiger Cubs in a gas chamber for years. So that happens. The Tiger Holocaust. cost. Joe tried to warn us. They did. It sure shit did. Well, I mean, obviously, like, so again, this is the biggest reason why they should have,

if you're going to have a zoo, they have vets that work there. I mean, there's people that clean up poop and stuff, but like, the biggest job is for the vet. You know what I'm saying? And it's very important for the vet to be there. I mean, if you don't have proper, if you're not able to properly care for an animal of any sword, you shouldn't be able to fucking own one. Yeah, for sure.

So what else would they have in there other than a gas chamber? Well, but I think, see, but this to me is different, though, than, like, we were talking earlier about Joe. It's like, with Joe, we, we admittedly were making the assumption that he had tigers that, like, needed to be put down. And Joe being a redneck, he just shot him. But, like, this to me is a, and it should be a bad handling all that. It should be a vet here, too, but to me, this is a different.

I bet Doc Antel has a bet, but this is, like, a different, the implication is that this is a completely different motivation. Yeah, yeah. They lose their worth and their value and their usefulness to him once they become a certain age. And so he just kills them because that's the simplest thing. And it's also referenced by his sex slave that escaped. She said she had that tiger she bonded really closer with when it was a cub. And then like, whatever happened to him, she's like, I don't know, we're not allowed.

We're not allowed to know that. And then later this shit comes up. So I mean, like, I don't know. What do y'all think? Well, you think's happening in them tiger cubs. Probably what it is. I mean, yeah, I mean, it very much seems like he heavily implies early on in the dock that, like, here's the age range that these things are worth a fuck.

And I mean, then he, which means that for him to have had this business for so long, he has to have a road, like, there's so many tigers that have had to come through. If he wasn't euthanizing them, then that he would have fucking 900 of these bitches. So, like, yeah, I mean, he's fucking tiger holocausing them. I just should not, my, she should not be, but I don't get a guy on his autographam with my head.

Yes, I agree. Drew, do you have an opinion on this subject? I don't think I have any difference of opinion, so I just say I'll agree with you guys. I mean, it seems clear to me that Doc can't tell. He has to, right? Like, what else could he be doing? I guess he could be selling them, but.

That's also such a Doc and Tell way of executing his tigers is having a gas chamber. I mean, it's, They just go to sleep. Yeah. And then he burns the bones. It's fucked. I know, but it's fucked.

I mean, if you shoot them in the head, they also take the big sleep, too. It's fucked. It's just fucked. It's not. It is definitely fucked. And speaking of fucked, so is the relationship between Tim Stark and Jeff Lowe. Again, who would ever thought that would happen? But they are at each other's throats.

Any thoughts on that? Well, I mean, I saw it coming, but I thought, oh, this is going to embed down the line. as far as I know, this is the first time this documentary series has introduced a storyline and wrapped it up in one episode. Yeah. And I think that's because that's how quick he fucked him. Right. Yeah.

Well, I also think he got the right one with Tim. I think he got the right one. I think something to – I think Tim going to be able to walk away from all this with – You think Tim's going to kill him? With his monkeys? No, no, no. I don't think he'll kill him or nothing like that,

but I think he's going to be able to – I don't think he's going to get – I don't think Jeff's going to be able to – know, out, you know, best them or whatever. No. I do think that Jeff will end up ruining the day. Yeah. Yeah. Tim and his monkey's going to be.

Yeah. Yeah. He ain't ever been in a, no. Monkey fight? No. He brought a tiger to a monkey fight. He done fucked up. Damn sure I did.

To me, one of the things that hits the least about all this is like, Carol and Harold getting to be so, like, vindicated in their own minds. you know, like they get to be the good guys at the end of the story, like to themselves. Yeah. That just don't hit. No. Let me tell you something about people like Carol Baskin. That was going to happen literally no matter how this ended up.

Yeah, that's true. You're right. But not everybody else, you know, and then again, we're seeing a montage just how we're wrapping things up now, seeing how people are turning out. We've already talked about Rinky. You know, we got divorced. He's living his best life, although he does note, he says, and I quote, I miss bone digger and cleetus.

Those are his two favorite tigers, bone dougar and cleatis. That's something a great tag team. One out for BD and Cletus. Other than that, he's doing okay. We check in on some of, obviously Travis, rest in peace, but how is John doing?

Joe's other ex-husband. And, you know, he's trying to move on. He's trying to move on. He obviously had that very famous tattoo. Corey replicated the other day on here. It says property of Joe Exotic on his pelvis. And he's trying to make, you know, he's trying to put all this behind him.

So, you know, He gets that covered up, and I just, Drew, I know this don't hit for you, but I'm going to show it anyway. I love it like he. Bulls don't hit for Drew, everybody. Bulls don't hit for me. I loved that they were like drawing out the tattoo that he was going to get to cover it up. And I guess they were pricing it out. And he just couldn't afford the extra two centimeters.

I know. Old fucking thing covered up. Katie's immediately. Katie was like, that doesn't even cover it. up like why, like you said, just make it a little bit bigger until it does cover the whole thing up. I think it was like an artistic choice. Like, you know, you have to still be a little bit reminded of your past. So you don't do meth and get fucked in the butt again? Right, exactly. It's like this bull is the new me, but we can't deny that the old me is just peering over at any moment waiting

to pounce. I can't believe that out of any kind of cosmetic thing that he could have bought, went with a tattoo. Like, why didn't he go get some teeth? I know, weird, right? Did he? He did. They just don't show it in the documentary. No.

Yeah, I think that he's making a larger statement. I think that he's saying the future is the bull that he's now grabbing by the horn. So good for him. We're pretty much at the end of this whole thing. Again, we go through some other facts. It kind of ends on a bunch of Sarah McLaughlin-type mess, you know, the side of the plight of the animals and everything with that. We get some other tidbits.

Apparently Doc got rated, but it's like a footnote at the end. We don't know the details of that. I don't know if you all have read up since then. It says that five to 10,000 tigers still exist in the United States, and that's more than exist and all the rest of the world, the wild all over the world. So, you know, the goddamn Bureau of Investigating Tigers and shit is not doing their job, in my opinion, and they need to be audited.

The IG needs to go investigate the Federal Bureau of investigating tigers and shit because we are not seeing results in this country. And then we get to hear another rendition of I saw Tiger and Tiger saw Man. And obviously that always hits. That pretty much takes us to the finish line, Felers. Drew, you said you had some additional doc-antle information? Well, he says that, and he still has everything, and he's done other TV shows and shit, and he still got his business.

he says there were some lions that originated in Ohio that the Federal Bureau of the investigation of tigers and shit were after. And they came there thinking that some of his new lions were of that progeny. And they were trying to, basically they came and took some of his lines and tested them to see if he got him from this bullshit-ass situation. And according to him, they didn't. He got his lines back and he got charged with nothing. He definitely got charged with nothing. I mean, that sounds like the doc Antel I know. Absolutely.

Yeah, yeah. He's on his shit, man. But I'd like to say at the end there, the one person, and one of the reasons why he sticks out in my mind so much, and what he said, I think really wraps up, like, how I feel about the whole thing. And that is Josh Dowell. Yeah. At the end of it, when he's talking, he's saying all the money that they spent that the government spent

trying to get this little information, putting in a recording buddy, like putting all this, putting the investigation in the trial, all that money, all the money that, all the money that, God damn, that whatever they spend in court,

Carol, and goddamn, all that money could have just went to the conservation of tigers. And everybody who's saying that they're doing their job because everybody's in it because they love the tigers and they wanted the tigers to be all right. Well, if all those people who are involved in this shit

had to just, you know, not had tigers, just gave money for the conservation of tigers over yonder like none of this it's like how only like five percent of susan g komen money actually goes to tities right exactly like the tigers are still fucked up the tigers are still fucked up in this entire situation nothing has changed and all that money that they spent they could have spent it on helping conserved tigers and not owning them being bickering and then the government

all the money that they blew on as far as the government goes though i mean there was a murder that they had to deal with. I mean, they didn't deal with the murder. There was somebody who said that somebody was going to kill somebody. But that's what he got found. The only murder, Harold was involved in the only murder. But that's what he got found guilty of. Like, I don't think it's fair to say the government spent all this money

trying to go after the Tiger Man when they could have just helped Tigers. They spent all this money going after a dude who was plotting a murder, number one. Number two, you've been harping this whole episode about how we need a federal Bureau for the investigation of tigers and shit. I mean, and I agree with you. Like, if there was somebody who was being like, hey, put out a tiger bulletin, get these tigers out of here, but that would be the government. Like, they just did their job and didn't have, it weren't like involved in all this like

petty. And whether it's the cause for the FBI and the government, what they spent in it, all they throw that out to win it. What just Carol and goddamn all these other people who are wildlife enthusiasts or exotic animal enthusiast talking about how they want to conserve the animals and all this other shit. If they had just spent that money in time and research horses into conserving those. Or fuck the money. Just treat the tiger people like they treat the gangs.

Just let them all kill themselves for a minute. Just take a step back and just be like, I don't know, just let this all hash out. And then afterwards we can just like go, you know, put the tigers in the ocean, let them swim wherever they want to go. Well, I mean, I don't disagree with you for the record at all, DJ. I think that it's pretty clear, I mean, and that, you know, the government ain't interested in doing, you know, what's right in the grand scheme of things. Maybe on a micro level, one prosecutor is or one tiger cop is actually out there trying to save tigers. But in the macro sense, it's very clear that this machine is built to do what it do. Go to trial, make headlines.

Similarly, it's very clear that Doc Entail's machine, Carol Baskin's machine, and Joe Exotic's machine. is or were, in Joe's case, designed to just make money, to cause controversy, to get people into the zoo, you know, to pet tigers. Well, I mean, that's a care. They don't care about the tigers. But at the end of the day, that's like what the fans and them, that's what they're designed to do too. Because, I mean, to me, it seemed like they literally had to hand, they had to keep on going back and handing her this case and making her reopen the case.

Yeah, Jeff made the case. Jeff made the case. Oh, yeah, Jeff. And he did to get Joe's farm. Jeff and Jamie, was the only one, or I think his name, was the only two motherfuckers working. Yeah, well, I mean, again, that's my whole thing as far as the Bureau of Investigating Tigers and shit goes,

is like I was saying earlier, and, I mean, we talked about, I'm sure they do have the proverbial bigger fish that they're prime, but again, what tigers and lions, god damn, but like, it just seems to me, like, they do exist. It does exist. It's the national fish and wildlife or whatever. We have an agency for that. but it just seems to me like they don't really give much of a fuck about this whole world

unless some other shit happens that draws them into it. But like it should be just in their purview to begin with. Even a fuck. Yeah. They clearly don't really. So. Right. If you're into like gun control and stuff,

these are tigers should be like the AKs of this situation. You would think, yeah. I mean, I don't know what else is. Who is like, dude, whatever I go to, whenever I go to, uh, fucking Iowa with my goddamn,

with my goddamn folks, Amber's cousins and shit, like, I don't hunt. Like, they know that, but they all do. And you can,

you have to have like specific, a tag for each fucking individual. You can only have so many. So, like, I'll just go get my license and get my tag and then give it to them so they can kill an extra thing. And they're,

because they're all super worried about it. that because they're like man they really fucking come down on you for this shit but like again you can just fucking have lines in ohio and everybody's like oh what are you going to do all right just so you guys know i'm going to give you a quick rundown according to the federal website what do agents do this is special agents who work for the u.s fish and wildlife service service special agents investigate crimes that range from international Wildlife Smuggling to Unlawful Migratory Game Bird Hunting. Blah, blah, blah. We work undercover to infiltrate wildlife trafficking rings. See, that's kind of what I was getting at earlier.

Joe's business might be sometimes selling tigers, but it's mostly doing the cub pettings and all that. He's probably using brokers to sell these tigers. Shack might have bought one from him, but who did, you know, fucking Mike Tyson buy his two from? I think there's bigger people out there who, mostly deal in getting these fucking tigers from India. You know what I mean?

Joe literally probably is a little fish to them. Yeah, but he got a whole bunch of fucking tigers and shit that he ought not have. Well, that part ain't illegal. You can have them. He can have them. He doesn't have a lot of size of a fish, it is. He aren't not.

He aren't illegal. You are not. That clearly. Several tigers. That clearly ain't illegal. No, it's not. That's Doc Cantell's whole fucking, you know, move. He went to D.C.

and wrote the laws. You don't have to break laws if you know how to ride them. Well, to avoid all this is because the main people who are really fucking got hurt other than Carol's husband are these fucking animals.

Like, it's great. It's great, like whoever's a big fishery, but they need to have fucking, there needs to be like somebody going and checking and shit. Like, there needs to be, I mean, I can't eat a goddamn McDonald's if it's all garbage.

Because here's the thing. Hey, Joe wasn't secretive about it, but beyond just, just that. Joe was a major target for all these animal rights. People sending thousands of emails a day at the behest of Carol Baskin. It's like it was the furthest thing from under the radar. And they never fucked with it at all until this other shit happened. And I'm saying, with all of it. And I'm saying that's proof to me mostly that most of the shit he was doing was technically legal. And the shit that wasn't, he was doing a damn good job of hiding.

All right. Well, hey, we'll save some of the rest of this talk for our wrap-up episode. But first, let's get to our guests this week. The lovely and inimitable Carmen Morales. Let's get Carmen in here. Hi. Hi. Hey, Carmen. There's you.

Carmen Morales, everybody, comedian extraordinaire from. Actually, we'll get to where she's from in just a minute. She lives in L.A. now. She's a good friend of ours and a friend of the well-read podcast, too. And we're glad you're here. Thanks for joining us, Carmen. Thank you so much for. having me, it is lovely to see all of your faces.

Absolutely. So you're from Florida, which seems like even though a big, big chunk of this whole saga takes place in Oklahoma, it seems like even with that, it all comes back to Florida. And I feel like most people, when turning this on, expected Florida to play a pretty prominent role. And it did. So, well, we, they always come by, they always come by to visit at the very least. But there is plenty of trash that is outside of Florida too. And I really appreciated this series for showcasing that beautifully. It's like we're not the only ones with trash. Well, I do feel like though, Florida's the emotional center of this particular documentary. I did, there is a comedy club in Tampa that did use to telemarket free tickets to Carol Baskins.

Really? Wow. I was actually going to ask, before this all came out, Wait, was it size splitters? Yeah. If there's anybody worse on Earth's ass, than everybody in this documentary, it's Bobby Jewel. Thank God he doesn't own it anymore, so please support it now. Is Jeff Lowe his son?

They did look related, didn't they? Yeah. Did you have, how much awareness did you have about Carol or Big Cat or any of this shit in general? before this came out? I didn't know anything. I mean, I'd remembered years ago, like, a few stoner friends were like, dude, you got to watch this Joe Exotic guy.

And it was like, and then I had heard of the, the cat place in Tampa, but I didn't know shit about it. I just knew there was a tiger place. Just kind of like how you know Gator lands a thing. You could go there to see Gators. There was like a tiger land in Tampa. I just never went because I went to push gardens instead, because they have tigers and you can ride a roller coaster.

Hell yeah. Did you know any crazy animal people? My dad used to have a drug dealer friend that used to have a tiger. There you go. My dad was one of those dudes. He wasn't a truck driver, but he would fuck around on the CB radio. And I was like, dude, that is such an old man chat room. Like, what the fuck were you doing? And they all had like handles and shit, you know? What was his handle? He ended up meeting up with this dude that had a fucking pet tiger because he was like,

hey, can anybody help me find my cat? he invited a bunch of people over to help him find his cat but his cat was like a fucking 500 pound tiger the tiger was missing yeah he was trying to find it i mean they ended up what yeah what do when you find it and he and he decided to get on the cb radio Florida is so wild yeah it's crazy well wait so you actually the perspective perspective you had it on it is interesting. It totally checks out to me because you said, you're like, I actually really appreciated this series for showing the rest of the world that it's not

only Florida. And we've talked a lot about how we should feel about how this reflects upon us, because it's like, you know, white trash dude with a southern accent, because Oklahoma's kind of in a nether region, but it's like, you know, how this reflects upon our people. And the general consensus seems to be like well actually Caitlin Warehouser said we're like do you think it sets us back and Caitlin just goes sets us back from where you know

Nazi memorabilia it's an upgrade from Nazi memorabilia like come on yeah you're right you're right oh no the people who already think I'm racist and fuck my cousin now think I own a tiger what will I do

well who knew you could get one for two grand like I can't want a tiger right insane. Seriously, though, that is insane that that's not a thing people know. Do you know what I mean? Because I feel like the first non-crazy tiger person who became privy to the knowledge that tigers only cost $2,000 would have spread that shit like wildfire. Yeah. All of the rest of us would have been like, what? I agree. I agree because up until this documentary, if I saw that one of my buddies got a tiger, I'd be like, oh shit, man, you really do. Like you're coming up, but like turns out you just get a tax refund and go to the fucking zoo. Carmen, I still believe in my heart that Joe was lying. That like he's selling these tigers for eight grand, but he don't want anybody to know it because he's doing it 10, you know, 10 a year.

And he's hiding all his money, et cetera, et cetera. Oh, so you think they were actually more expensive than two grand? Because I don't have an uncle who owns a tiger. I mean, dude, that's a compelling argument. It really is. I feel like I'd see more fucking tigers. My fucking golf cart costs $2,000. And I mean, a golf cart ain't a tiger.

Been saying it. It's so much harder to kill somebody with a golf cart than it is a tiger. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean. It's possible, Carmen. Got a challenge. Well, Carmen, this is episode seven. is the episode you're on.

So obviously the whole thing's over and dumb with. How'd you feel about how it all wrapped up? You got the way you think it was going to go? There was some turns. But I mean, this was just a petty off between a white lady and a gay man. And there isn't anybody pettier than those two archetypes of people. I mean, yeah, I knew somebody was going to get burned, but I was going to watch how bad it got first.

Damn, that was great. No one has, we've been doing this for like a whole week and I've had guests and no one has so succinctly, you know, got to the core of why this hits, why this documentary was so great. Well, Carmen's from Florida. And this is an emotionally Florida document. This is the epitome of like two work friends getting into it and you watching the whole thing unfold and then like, oh, shit. And oh, and you got two husbands. Like, this is like a reason you go to work. like this is the kind of story that that is, you know?

So it's like, this is what keeps you from killing yourself when you're working at a mindless job that makes you hate yourself. Like, this is what gets you through. And now we just have a kooky, Tiger, Florida, Oklahoma version of it, you know, where it's just like, yeah, no, bitch, I don't fucking like you. And like, I'm going to show you in the most fucked up way. Are you, uh, is this, right? Are you generally into this type of thing, meaning like,

train wreck entertainment or no was this a right so how did you did you just see everybody losing their minds over it and you're like okay I got to see what this is about or what how did you come to this and how do you feel about it? It reminded me that like some comic had told me about the Joe Exotic thing

and when I was like I was like oh they made a documentary about them like how crazy is he right and then I was I saw it and I was like oh he's pretty fucking crazy yeah um uh do you you think episode seven specifically,

and this is a very, it's a very small, like part of it, but we spent a lot of time talking about it earlier. When the hit, the would be hitman just like takes a bath in the middle of his interview. Yeah. Of all the time that you have,

because they schedule this. So did that, was that like a director's choice where he was like, could you be a bath, do you think? Do you think it was? I don't know. Why would you want to watch that man babe? I'm so like, I don't know. Couldn't he be cleaning a gun? Just jazz it up a little bit. I got to see the old man's fucking sad nips. Like, I'm already getting this bizarre information about how whether, like, maybe Jeff is like way more, like this whole him trying to kill Carol Baskins is like a, is that a little bit of a scam? Is he getting fucked over because the kid wants to take over? Like, there's a lot of interesting things in the last episode that was like, it was like watching the end of a conspiracy. theory,

YouTube, rabbit hole, where you're at the end of it, you're like, I don't know what. I don't know what fucking happened. I don't know the truth. I don't know anything.

You know? Well, what do you think, as far as that whole thing goes, when it comes to the murder for hire with Carol, Joe, Joe and Jeff and hitman Allen and fucking big James Garrison and all that?

What do you think, like, really happened there? Like, is Joe fairly taking all of, the punishment or she had been getting some of it? Like, what do you think? I don't think Joe should be the only one that goes in.

Right. I think Jeff should be in. I think that fat-ass motherfucker that rode on a jet ski, by the way, which makes this, if we don't have this episode, we don't have that scene and that will be a gift forever, right? Like, we're going to watch that fat motherfucker ride that jet ski for the rest of our lives, for sure. Yeah, so one of my favorite tweets featuring that gift was it just said something like, my friends and family, don't you come back around here with all your bullshit.

It's like me with all my bullshit. And it was him on that jet ski. It's so good, dude. It's so good already. It's so funny. Yeah. And then I also, like, I wasn't so sure about how his ex-husband,

who gets maybe the worst cover-up tattoo over his junk I've ever seen. I was like, is he just trying to secure his next TV spot? on fucking bad ink. Is that why he did that? Like, is he just trying to get as much money possible out of this fucking sham marriage?

I don't know. What do you think about, where do you stand on Carol ultimately? I think the reason that Joe is so mad is because Carol got away with murder and he didn't. That's how petty I think these two people are. He was like,

that bitch got, that's why he wouldn't stop talking about it because he was like, fuck you, you got away. you know what i'm gonna fucking kill you i'm gonna get away with it like that's exactly what that was it was too like because carroll plays that hippie bullshit but that bitch is insane look man i hide my crazy pretty well we know our own kind that bitch is nuts okay there is no way how he

isn't getting his ass fucking beat by that bitch and he might like it based on the weird ass photos of him being a cat. Like, I'm sure she beats him just like she beats the big cats. You know? Oh, yeah. He takes him wear a diaper and shit. He's into it. Do you think, no, he's lucky.

Like, he found a rich woman to humiliate him, but also take care of him. Yeah. Do you think, uh, there's anything unfair about the, like, the hate and shit that Carol's been getting? Like, we've already, we posted about doing this podcast and stuff and we've gotten some Carol apologists already, and I know that they're out there. It seems like there are people who feel like that, you know, that Carol doesn't, she shouldn't be viewed as the same way as these other people or that it's just

horseshit that she's looked at that way by a lot of people. I mean, like, I think she killed her husband. So, you know, in that, in that case, I think you, get a little bit of shit, right? Like, you got away with murder. It's the same thing, like, I don't think OJ should not get shit on Twitter. Like, everything he posts he's going to get shit for.

But you got away with murder, bitch. Like, you earn that. Like, you get to be trolled forever. You got away with fucking murder, bitch. But what about her whole stance that she has of, like, you know, Big Cat Rescue is, like, heroic. Like, this is a sanctuary

that she runs. You know what I mean? It's a good market. Ploy? Yeah. It's a great marketing ploy. Obviously, that's the other reason why Joe was so mad. Because he was like, this bitch, he was like, I opened with this shit too, but she just leaned into it so much.

And we just like did all this bleeding heart shit. And all everybody wants to do is feel good about a decision they made. So if they're going to a place, they think it's like, it's the same. It's why nonprofits are so easy to be scams. Because everybody wants to feel like they're helping, you know? So it's the same shit. whether she's shooting them probably not i mean she seems like she might be like a little bit more chill about it i don't think she's as monstrous as the rest of them but i also think she

got away with killing her husband so i don't know and uh another theme that seems to just permeate throughout this whole thing is the insane effect that fucking tigers apparently have on people or at least a certain type of person like the things that people that people will do. I think the word you're looking for is pussy. Well, not necessarily. Which one? What do you mean?

I'm just saying, that was all Jeff talked about for like three episodes. It's like, if you have tiger, you have pussy. Yeah, but Joe married these straight guys for tigers and meth. Matt,

come on. Yeah, but like Corey said earlier, you could suck a bunch of decks for meth. You know what I mean? Yeah. But he had, I'm saying when you add tigers to the equation,

and it does something to people. I know, what about, no, never mind, I'm stupid. What about my insecurities? Carmen, if you were. I ain't eager about those. I could have gone on forever. Carmen, if you were in Vegas partying and getting kind of fucked up and having a good time already.

Which I do. And some couple, and at least half of the couple is like a, like a walking bottle of mountain dude just a fucking, you know, like showed you pictures, showed you proof pictures like we have a baby tiger in our room and all these people are going up here to play with the baby tiger. You won't in on this baby tiger action? What would you say?

No, it would go without question. Right. Of course. It's a baby fucking tiger. It's the symbol of strength and a fucking royalty in the animal kingdom. It's the reminder that, hey, maybe we could not be on top. Like, you know what I mean? Right.

And you hold a baby version of that. No, I get it. I get why it's cool. Yeah. But it's also because it gets you laid. I mean, I wouldn't fuck that guy. Because here's the thing is, I get approached by couples all the time. I don't know what it is about me.

That's like, she seems like she'd be into both of us. Like, I don't know what it is. It's like, you just got a vibe. But throughout my entire career, I always get approached by fucking couples. So it's like, I already know how to navigate that. But the tiger would sweeten the deal, you know? Fucking clearly. we just had the news broken to us a little bit ago that apparently there's more content to come.

Did you know about that? They've got additional episode, bonus episodes or something they're going to be putting out. I mean, they're making too much money. They'll scrape some kind of footage together to make something to give us. Yeah. So, you know, we'll see where all that goes. But do you have off what we've been given so far, you have any other like overall? arching thoughts or major takeaways you want to give us before we sign off here?

I don't know. I mean, there was like a lot of, this was the episode that like I think raised even more questions like how like I don't think, yeah, I think Jeff should have got heat for this. I think he should have got locked up for this because like he clearly did like you can even tell here's the thing. I love a good liar, right? I stare at their faces. It's so fun.

And Jeff's not even that good of a liar. you know what I mean? Like when he would ask these questions, he was just like, oh, you did set him up, you fucking idiot. Like you totally did set him up because you didn't like that he was fucking scamming you.

Hey, well, what about, what about Bhagavan? What about Doc Antel and his whole thing? His concubines, his whole thing. And in this episode,

they imply that he's like gassing baby tigers and shit. What do you think about that motherfucker? I think that, I mean, okay, if your source is just, Joe Exotic. I mean, I think he's going to be exotic about, I think he's going to be extra. So I don't know. I mean, I don't know. He is like, he is like grooming women to fuck them. So he, I wouldn't put it past him to gas a tiger, you know. But at the same time, if these tigers are sick or whatever the fuck, like, if they're just frivolously killing them, but it's also like, if you're from the South and you have a sick dog, you got to take care of that dog and you bear him in the backyard. Like it's the same kind of, that kind of mentality. where it's like, I don't know if it's necessarily.

They were making too much money off of these fucking tigers, you know? Yeah, no, absolutely. You're going to do it yourself. If it's $60,000 to feed these fucking tigers, I don't know how much it is to kill them, to have a doctor kill them. So you just handle that shit yourself. Yeah, no, yeah, we arrived at much the same conclusion, believe it or not, and we talked about it earlier.

I was like, look, our pipeballs, no, sometimes you've got to shoot them. Who would have thought that the rednecks and the lady from Florida would have been like, I fucking take them out back. Fuck these goddamn tigers. Listen, man, I knew a friend that I put a cat down because the cat was inconvenient. He was old and sneezy. You know what I mean? He was just a pain in the ass.

So you put the cat to sleep. All right. I mean, that's your decision. That's your fucking cat. I mean, I probably would have waited it out, you know, because I live with a lot of guilt in my heart. Or ask somebody, hey, do you want a cat? An old, very annoying pain in the ass to take care of. Do you want to cry in six months?

Here. All right. Well, no, go ahead. Go ahead. I was just going to say that's all having a pet is, is paying someone to cry in front of them, basically. Absolutely. All right. Well, thank you, Carmen. This is Carmen Morales, everybody. Carmen, tell people how they can find you if they are so inclined right now. You could just look if you want,

Carmen Morales.com for all of your Carmen Morales needs. You can follow me on all the assorted social media at the Funny Carmen. I have a podcast if you guys are lonely and I know you are. So listen to my podcast. It's called No Sorry. I don't like it. And that's it.

Thank you. And if you're a couple out there looking to fuck, she ain't. But you got to be cool. That's always what they say. You just have a really good vibe about you. I'm like, what about my vibe says I want to fuck the two of you?

You aren't even keeping me interested. And I got to keep you both interested. Fuck you. What else is that about Jeff? I'm pretty, I was very impressed by how Jeff was in an open relationship and still managed to cheat on that pregnant as bitch, right? I mean, there's no way. How do you cheat on someone in an open relationship? That was insane to me.

I was like, man, this is, he got so lucky to find such a dumb bitch to hang out with you. It was insane to me. It was, he was lucky. I mean, you can, if you can get a pretty dumb bitch to do whatever you want, man, it's like owning a tiger. All right. you tell. Carmen Raleis, everybody. Thank you, Carmen.

Thank you so much for having me, guys. All right. Only one left, y'all. The wrap up. Go ahead and click on it now. We'll see you there. Hey. Later.

Lister. Later. Well, in Wood, Oklahoma's where we meet our Tiger King. He's got them monkey champs and tiger cubs that keep his thing. He's seen he's got all his meth head buddies, and they're all working for free. Serving Chief Toteino's pizza covered in rock a Walmart meet. And of course there's old Doc Anto, the tigers made him rich. And don't forget about Carol Baskins, man, we fucking hate that bitch.

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