wellRED podcast - Tiger By The Tale #8 - Whats It All Mean?

Episode Date: April 14, 2020

Wherein we resign ourselves to the fact that everything we ever watch from the point forward will only be Something That’s Not Tiger King. We wrap up with a slew of awesome guests for ya, including BJ Barham of American Aquarium, Roy Wood Jr of the Daily Show, and a MINI DEADWOOD REUNION with W. Earl Brown and Sean Bridgers! Yuhhhh!

And we thank them for sponsoring the show. Well, no, I'll just go ahead. I mean, look, I'm money dumb. Y'all know that. I've been money dumb ever, since ever, my whole life. And the modern world makes it even harder to not be money dumb, in my opinion, because you used to, you, like, had to write down everything you spent or you wouldn't know nothing. But now you got apps and stuff on your phone.

It's just like you can just, it makes it easier to lose count of, well, your count, the count every month, how much you're spending. A lot of people don't even know how much they spend on a per month basis. I'm not going to lie, I can be one of those people. Like, let me ask you right now. Skewers out, whatnot, sorry, well-read people. People across the ske universe, I should say. Do you even know how many subscriptions that you actively pay for every month or every year?

Do you even know? Do you know how much you spend on takeout or delivery? Getting a paid chauffeur for your chicken low mane? Because that's a thing that we do in this society. Do you know how much you spend on that? It's probably more than you think. But now there's an app designed to help you manage your money better, and it's called Rocket Money.

Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. Rocket Money shows all your expenses in one place, including subscriptions you already forgot about. If you see a subscription, you don't want anymore, Rocket Money will help you cancel it.

Their dashboard lays out your whole financial picture, including the due dates for all your bills and the pay days. In a way that's easier for you to digest, you can even automatically create, custom budgets based on your past spending. Rocket Money's 5 million members have saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscription with members saving up to $740 a year when they use all of the apps. Premium features.

I used Rocket Money and realized that I had apparently been paying for two different language learning services that I just wasn't using. So I was probably like, I should know Spanish. I'll learn Spanish. and I've just been paying to learn Spanish without practicing any Spanish for, you know, pertinent two years now or something like that. Also, a fun one, I'd said it before,

but I got an app, lovely little app where you could, you know, put your friend's faces onto funny reaction gifts and stuff like that. So obviously I got it so I could put Corey's face on those two, those two like twins from the Tim Burton Alice in Wonderland movies. You know, those weren't a little like the Q-ball-looking twin fellas. Yeah.

So that was money. What was that in response to? What was that a reply gift for? Just when I did something stupid. Something fat, I think. And stupid. Something both fat and stupid. But anyway, that was money well spent at first.

But then I quit using it and was still paying for it and forgotten. If it wasn't for Rocket Money, I never would have even figured it out. So shout out to them. They help. If you're money dumb like me, Rocket Money can help. So cancel your unwanted subscriptions or reach your financial goals faster with RocketMoney. Go to RocketMoney. dot com slash well read today that's rocket money.com slash well r e d rocketmoney.com

slash well read and we thank them for sponsoring this episode of the podcast they're the well in wood Oklahoma's where we meet our tiger king he's got them monkey champs and tiger cubs the key thing he's seen he's got all his meth head buddies and they're all working for free serving cheap to tautino's beat covered and rock the Walmart meet. Then, of course, there's old Doc Antle. The tigers made him rich. And don't forget about Carol Baskins.

Man, we fucking hate that bitch. We got a tiger by the tail, baby. Tiger by the tail, we got a. Tiger by the tail, baby. Tiger by the tail, we got a. Tiger by the tail, baby. Tiger by the tail, we got a. Tiger by the tail, baby.

Tiger by the tail, we got a. Tiger by the tail. All right, y'all, here we are. We're here we are at the end. of quite a journey for the world, I think. And I don't know what all thought in parts. I keep thoughting parts. I keep wanting to say that parting thoughts I have on this whole thing.

Other than to say, I'm kind of worried that from this point forward in my life, everything I ever watch will just be something that's not Tiger King. I mean, I completely agree. I mean, in the docu-series space 100%, like, I think that I'm just going to have to, like, I keep seeing a bunch of people, like, they'll put out these, these, like, articles. It's like, if you like Tiger King, you will also like this, which we pointed out, I think maybe one of the early episodes, some of them are just like other docu-series on,

like, Tiger stuff. And it's like, that's not why we like Tiger King. But like, either way, they're like, oh, yeah, this shit. is also crazy and I'm like, no, it's not going to stack up. I'm going to have to go in a completely different direction. Like, I can't consume any more crazy docu-series because, like, I just went to WrestleMania. Well, we mentioned on one of the earlier episodes too, at least I did, and this is true for me. Also, like, I don't even, this type of thing, because there's a bunch of these, like, docu-series out there. Most of them are, like, true crime, and technically this is

true crime also, although I agree, it's not the, like, true crime part of it that this is its own thing. But still, technically, like true crime docu-series, you know, they exist. And they're very, very, very popular. Making a murder and all that stuff. Like, people eat that shit up. My wife loves it. I've never liked them.

It's never been my thing because they mostly, like, bum me out and stuff. But this one, this, like, I mean, goddamn, I just don't. Well, I don't know where you go from here. Those are predicated almost always on either. did or did they not do it? Right. Right. Mystery.

How did they do it and how did we catch them? And this is more of like, this show literally is, hey, come here. Look how wild this shit is. Yeah. Yeah, but well done. Like, just so well done.

Like, this to me is like, it's the, it's, it sort of reminded me of S-town in the way that, like, there was the, like, the reason the whole thing was set up is because there was, supposedly a murder or whatever, but then you're not listening to it for that. And it's why, like, after I listened to Estown, because I was like, well, I'm not into

any more of this stuff because this was its own thing. It was kind of like a genre bending. It's so wild to see a new thing, and we saw a new thing. And DJ brought up off mic at one point earlier, and we were in between guests. He asked if any of us had seen the Wild and Wonderful White's of West Virginia, because it does, it does at face value, it seems to be a similar thing because it's like it's a documentary

about white trash and crazy white trashness, but like we were talking about when we discussed it earlier DJ, like it also is different. It ain't like this because like we were saying, it's like it's this but in a much more like sad, dark, dark, heavy, fucked up way.

It don't have the like raw entertainment value that this has. I can't think of anything that does. No, see, and that was a lot of that. You got to give them credit for making, for being able to, you have to give, you have to give credit to Joe Exotic for being able to put out this amount of good content with his, with his, regardless of he was singing or not, the videos. Man, that's actually a good point.

It's a great point. And I think the only documentary that I think comes to comparison is the predile. successor to the Wild and Wonderful Wights of West Virginia. That's Jesco White's family. And there was a documentary about Desco made in the late 80s, early 90s called The Dancing Outlaw Jessica White. And it's dark but entertaining. Jesco is the only person I've ever seen who rivals Joe Exxon.

Yeah. And the Wild and Wonderful Whites was done with like a woke lens a little bit. You know, it had that flavor to it. Whereas Jesco is, it's super dark. There's a scene where he, like, tries to stab his wife, literally. But if you ask anyone who's seen that, they would laugh. Like, if you go, have you seen the dancing outlaw? People go, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, I've seen it.

And then they would laugh a couple more times and go down through it. And then by the third story, they would frown and go, yeah, he tried to stab his wife. Which, that's how this is. What does wife do it? She fucked his eggs up, I think. Yeah. This is, she just, I don't eat no floppy, sloppy eggs. You want to scramble and gist?

How many times they're usually clipped up the eggs? I mean, on camera or in life? You know, we'll never know the answer to the last. Okay, but let me ask you all this, though. There's tons, tons. I think it was, was it tone? I can't remember.

One of our guests, we've done this all in big chunks, and it's running together for me, but one of our guests brought up, they were talking about, like, Jerry Springer and shit like that, like white trash you know uh mess like hey look how crazy these fucking people are has been a thing for a very long time right and there's tons of examples of it it's all out there i have mostly always pretty much reviled it until until this one and i ask you why is it the tigers what is it like is it the production value like is it just it's this perfect alchemy of everything

that comes together to make this Transcend. Springer is just the scene where Saf got the arm ripped off and Joe Exotic talking about Dildos and shooting at a fucking whatever. This is that plus backstory, plus mystery, plus the cops, like

it's just well done. Yeah, I mean, I was going to say like the thing we don't talk about enough is like genuinely it was regardless of what the content was, it was a fan documentary the way that they were ever. Even if they took a,

I'm sure they took a bunch of liberties and they made it something that it wasn't at some point, but God damn it, they took all this raw footage and these documentarians really did a great job. It was compelling. You were following 17 to 18 different storylines at one time. You were always in thrall with it. Like I said, I watched it in fucking one chunk. But like, it's not just honey boo-boo, boo,

look at me. We're going to a goddamn pageant in my mom as well. These people were wild but with a purpose. You know what I'm saying? It wasn't just like I'd make go-go juice. It's like, no, bitch, they tame tigers. And relatable in that situation. You relatable?

Still, I mean, like, yeah, I mean, you know those people. Oh, right. Yes, absolutely. You know what I'm saying? Not like you would. I think another big factor with all that for me. We've asked a lot of our guests about how this reflects on us and how we should feel about it and stuff like that.

And I think, and I'm not. Some of our guests have brought up the same notion. I think what makes it different is that, like, you watch like a fucking daytime TV segment on some white trash family that's just lunatics. And you're really, you're just like laughing at or are entertained by how, like, sorry these people are.

And all they're doing is doing drugs and fucking each other. And, like, having kids with each other's fucking, you know, wives and shit like that. It's all just a bunch of it. It's just like, it just feels like, it comes across as this is what these people are like and isn't it ridiculous and entertaining. But with this, it's like because it's fucking tigers and it's tiger people, it's like it's so extreme. It's so wild.

It's so out there. Do you know what I mean? That it makes it like feel different. It's like this isn't, this isn't just laughing at like what poverty does to you. It's a specific topic thing. Yeah. I mean, it's also like as several people, including Sean mentioned.

It's like, look, those people are going to think what they're going to think, like, pretty much regardless. It's kind of like how, like, when I saw the movie The Wolf of Wall Street, it didn't change how I felt about people on Wall Street. I done thought that shit. Do you know what I mean? So, like, what the fuck ever, if there was anybody on Wall Street, oh, God, this movie reflects poorly on us.

I'm like, no, dude, that's what anyone that wasn't on Wall Street doesn't thought y'all motherfuck was dead anyway. Yeah, right. Also. also other than the staff who it actually made look good none of those people were poor right right ran business that's why it's different that's what i'm saying like buddy if you got money and you choose to act like that let the world laugh you know i mean like that don't reflect on me you know it's like with honey boo-boo boom with some of that other shit like springer it's like you guys are

just laughing at poverty but here it's like no you're i mean you're laughing at mental illness but it's very entertaining mentally. It also might be a good thing going forward that they've set this particular bar to where now when people meet just a regular person with an accent, they're like, you don't have a tiger right? You're like, no, hell no. They're like, okay. Right on. Cool. No, still right now, at this moment, though, if you were, well, not at this moment, because if you were in Las Vegas normally and you had tigers and everybody had seen this, you know, I guarantee you can still get a couple people up to your room with a tiger and a seat. Oh yeah.

Once this pandemic is over, I think there's going to be an even bigger surge in like tiger sex orgies and sweets. Yeah, me too. Yeah, unless the goddamn bureau of investigating tigers and shit steps up and does their job. Right. Yes. And that's why. Okay.

I want to be clear. I want them to do their job, but they should end with the orgies. Don't start with the orgies, man. No, for sure. But I mean, at the end of the day, that's why I feel. like the government is the worst piece of shit in this entire that's the one thing

that I can't, like we can say everything we want to about the South or about tiger people or monkey people or anything. Look how our government operates. If this exposes anything, not only to the to the

way that they do judicially, but how they even treat with their, the tiger the tigers and shit your own. And I want to be clear. What are you doing? Oh, sorry.

I'm making mashed potatoes, boys. You're making mashed potatoes? You're doing right? Well, I've been muted. I forgot I was not muted anymore. I unmuted to say, I want to be clear. Throughout the series. It is in a can.

DJ. Me and DJ have argued about things in cans and libertarianism, but you are 100% right. I 100% agree with you. This reflects so many things. But number one, it's that all of our government, institutions, whether it's the local sheriff, the feds, the state, the cop who helped his sister murder her husband, everybody's on some fuck shit.

Yeah. All the way of that. Yes. Yes. Let me ask you all this, though, like, because it's got brought up a few times. And, okay, so it ends, the thing ends, like we said to end of episode seven, it, like, ends with all these, like, it's like a Sarah McLaughlin montage about the plight of these tigers is though like look the main takeaway from this is ostensibly that tigers and tiger breeding

this is a real issue and people should give a shit about it but like dude i'm not going to front i don't feel like that's the main takeaway how many times have i said we're forgetting about the tigers like that the tigers are not they are not the main takeaway that people get from this goddamn thing i don't care how the and anyone who does and anyone who does and anyone who took that takeaway once a tiger now. I mean, this is going to cause more tiger shit. I mean,

putting it on there as a button at the very end, maybe the attempt was to like, with the Big Cat Safety Act attempting to be passed, was to like remind everybody to be like, hey, by the way, when you go to vote on this or when you go to decide how you feel about it, remember what we've just shown you is the type of people

who own these fucking things. So just throwing that out, Obviously the whole takeaway from the thing wasn't the cats, but just to remind you, look, this is who we're trying to get tigers taken away from. It really obsessed me that the government doesn't give more of a fuck than they do about motherfuckers just having that many goddamn tigers, man, and lions. Don't make sense. I mean, that old boy in Ohio let his zoo out, and they didn't change no laws.

No. I mean, Corey, you said it in episode one. But we'll lock you up for a good. This is a, Corey said in episode one, this is analogous to the gun debate. And he's proven more and more right as it's going along in my mind. Because like, even then, it's like crazy shit happens. We don't change any laws. And the government just fucking turns their head.

And they pick on one dude to go after, but they don't actually cause any fucking what. They don't make any change, you know? I don't know. The only way that we're going to get gun laws changed in this country is if they make a very hilarious. seven-part documentary about mass murders. And good luck, too. I know the crew to call. I'll tell you that much right now.

Very good point. Yeah. Well, and on that note, before we get into our last round of guest interviews here, y'all got anything else you want to leave people with as we bring Tiger by the tail to the close? man I genuinely I don't mean this as a cop out I got nothing I'm so drained like that's how this this has been an emotional experience for me like watching it was an emotional experience and then working on this has been an emotional experience that's also to your point earlier when you said

you got to give it up for Joe Exotic with the amount of content that he's put out I I jeep this is the hardest I've ever worked in my whole life this week this week is the hardest I've ever worked in my whole life. And really all we've done is sat down every day for several hours and bullshitted about this and done research and now I'm going to have to edit it. But that motherfucker, not only was he putting out a goddamn nightly show. Not only was he fucking producing music

videos and putting out all them goddamn chart hoppers. He also ran a zoo. I'm not even having to run a zoo. So my rampor governor and president and goddamn. My parting thoughts are like whatever you say about Joe Exotic, yeah, he's a piece of shit, but at least take his work ethic.

Yeah. I think my favorite thing about the entire Joe exactly thing, and I think about it. I swear to God, I thought about it every day since I said it. It was when Saf got her fucking arm chewed off, she just looked at the camera and said, well, it's just something that I can overcome. Like, that's fucking a much.

That's such an amazing thing for somebody to say and to hear somebody say something. I think it's just a testament to how great she is. and I hope she doesn't get overlooked by all the other stuff to like that person is like, I hope so. I hope staff's doing our, yeah. You know what, on that note, like I think another thing people could take away from this is that our people as white trash Americans, like, you know, we can, we're good for shit.

You know what I mean? Like, we are an adaptable. We are an adaptable lot. Like, dude, you wouldn't think if you just polled your person on the street, how well do you think, you know, white trash motherfucker would do? at taking care of 200 tigers, they'd be like, uh,

probably not great, but Eric Cowley's got some shit to say about that guy. Yeah, that damn right. Matter of fact, the only thing the white trash people failed at was murder. And if you ask people on the street, they would assume we'd be good at that.

Yeah, man. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, my last dollar or whatever is just that in the shit parade, that reality television and the media and all that has become. And we're going to get into it.

it, you know, with some of our guests, at least it's getting more, what's the right word, multifaceted. If I have to have honey boo-boo in my life, at least the new honey boo-boo, now I'm talking about Joe Exotic, it becomes three-dimensional. You know what I mean? I know exactly. You're right. Yeah.

Well, all right. Well, with that said, let's get into our last round of guest, and we got some great ones for y'all, some great shit still to come have these last few conversations and then that'll be that. So yeah, get us into it, Cho. And thank y'all for joining us on Tiger by the Tail. Esculator!

Esculator! All right, everybody, you know him as Johnny Burns in Deadwood, Trey Willis, and Rectify, and most recently in one of my favorite shows that I think everybody should check out on Netflix. It is the, I guess, small-screen adaptation of Get Shorty. We got Sean Bridger is one of just the best actors out there and one of our best buddies coming to us all the way from his home in North Carolina. Y'all enjoy it.

I'm all right. How are you guys doing? Holding up well in the apocalypse. Good to see it. Hey, Sean. Yeah, good to see you too. Hey, man. Look at that.

Yeah. You got the screen. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you dig that? I look like I'm in hell. I'm looking at my light right here. Yeah, no, we got the green screen trashing it up for the occasion, you know, doing our thing. So I'm assuming you're back home, right?

You're in North Carolina. Yeah, I'm at an undisclosed location. Somewhere in the mountains of North Carolina. Yeah, almost everywhere in the mountains, North Carolina is an undisclosed location. People live in there. They don't like to disclose the exact location. I feel people, oh, you don't want to come where I live. It's terrible.

You hate it. Yeah, and it's beautiful and amazing is what it actually is. So, Sean, much like us, I assume that you have been just absolutely utterly consumed with the Tiger King for the past week. Did you watch it all in one sitting or were you somehow able to spread it out? I did not spread it out. I watched the first, the first episode, like, late at night. It was me and my wife and my kids, and we were just trying to find something, one of those deals.

We just watched Star Man. And then I'm just, like, looking for something. And I just saw it, saw the title, and I went, and hadn't heard of it. And I was like, yes, yes, this is what I need. This is a documentary about that dude. And I watched the first episode and, halfway through the second episode, and by that time it was 3.30 in the morning,

I couldn't stay away. But the next day, I watched, started at the beginning again, watched all of it. And I still kind of watched certain episodes every now and then just because. Because like, what the fuck? Yeah. Or like, I'm trying to figure some shit out about it, you know? Was it, was it like at all what you thought it was going to be going in?

Like, because I went into it with this like, all right, this is about to be some just fucking exploitative honey boo-boo, like whatever the fuck shit. And I did not see that there was going to be not only one, but like seven different compelling narrative stories throughout it. How did you feel? Yeah, I agreed. I mean, they did a brilliant job too and sort of sucking you in because it did seem like it would be just entertaining, purely entertaining initially. and uh but that's you know that's what a documentary can do you just follow it and the thing that this is what's weird about them too is how much being on camera like that and the world that got

created in an already crazy world with cameras because when cameras come it changes things it's like that's why there's no such thing as reality tv really unless it's voyeur your tv you know it changes the the chemistry inside you when you know there's when you know you're being served. And he kind of fed the whole thing. It's got to have fed the whole thing in a lot of ways. Man, that's actually an interesting point you brought up that I hadn't even thought about

is how like when you know the cameras are on, you try to be like the most presentable of yourself. And like, so what the fuck are these people on? Like, what are they talking about the cameras aren't on? Right. But that's at first. Right. And then as you get comfortable with it,

then it's that like, well, let me show out a little bit. You know what I mean? I mean, dude, just doing this podcast on this platform where I can see my face, I think is changing the way I interact with you guys, except for that one episode when I was on pills. So you're from the rural South. Do you know, because I know that Trey has like not necessarily Joe Exotic, Trey has what Drew, I think, said was like Joe Exotic if he played in like AAA baseball.

He's got like a wild monkey man type person. And they're in the area you're living, is there any type of human being like this? I don't know. I mean, the thing about Joe is he reminded me of about four or five different people. Right. You know what I mean? And he's all kind of put them into one. Like, you know, the, you know, it's interesting watching him is just that he's playing a character.

That's getting back to the point. Like you were saying cameras on you. and it sort of makes you straighten up. And to Drew's point, what's his name, Kirkwood or the guy who's shooting in documentary? What was his name? Rick, Rick. Rick. Rick.

He says at one point, once the cameras got on, remember he'd fire people at the morning meeting and they cut to a clip of him, like, if you take that my way, you just get another guy, right? So I don't know that, I don't even know that Joe Exotic is like Joe Exotic. You know what I mean? it's sort of, he's about three or four different people. But did any of those people, you say, nine of your four or five different people, do any of those people have monkeys or tigers?

No. Because, because the guy wondering it. Corey, the guy Corey was talking about, and honestly, I'm glad, I'm relieved that, because we've asked other people this question as we started this, and so far, I'm the only one. that has a Joe Exotic analog in my hometown, and I'm glad that that is the case.

But we did in Salina. We had Big Bob, and he was his big old gay feller. He used to fuck around. He would literally bring, like, Puerto Rican prostitutes to the high school ball games and stuff, and he also had a little, like, zoo,

except it wasn't a zoo. You couldn't pay, buy a ticket and go through it, but he had an animal, like, enclosure or an encampment down by the park with fucking everything from lamas and ostriches or whatever to also he had zebras kangaroos he had some big cats in the back but not tigers he had like lynxes and shit but he was he also he loved his monkey and the audience has heard me say us multiple times but i can't not tell you sean because it's so tragic uh just recently earlier this very year big bob had his monkey taken from him he's currently locked in a brutal monkey custody

dispute as we speak over carlos the monkey so the whole community's you know on edge waiting to how that turns out. Sean, you know any good monkey lawyers? Oh, man. That's about my favorite character and the whole thing is that Tim guy. You got to run in a track hoe with a monkey.

Yeah. And one of my favorite moments in it, I'm sure I'd be curious if you can remember the moments that you guys have that just sort of crack you, little things that just sort of I had to pause it because I'd laugh.

And one of them was in the final episode, I think, and they're on Jeff Lowe. And it's when everything's gone to shit. And Jeff Lowe's gone down to the Texas border to build his huge, huge super zoo. And but that Tim guy from Ohio is doing all the work. And so they have them falling out. And it's just Tim on the phone with Jeff. And they just got real quick. And you hear Tim go, fuck you, puss boy.

And Jeff came up really. I had to pause and laugh for about 10 minutes about that. He bit, push, boy, because he was. Jeff Loe didn't do shit. And that guy was running a back with a monkey on his shoulder. That's about my favorite guy in the whole thing. Yeah, he also said he had some words of wisdom in that same little sequence there, Sean, Tim Stark did, where he said, you know, people talk about having, you know, problems of having a monkey.

on your back, well, what do you do? You put the monkey on your front, and you got it took care of. Sit there with a monkey on his front. So having Big Bob in my hometown or whatever might have made a little bit of a different perspective for me, but like, did you have any kind of feelings whatsoever about like while watching this? Was any part of you like, oh, well, this ain't looking up, making us look the best ever was? Like, did you feel like it, like reflected upon, you know?

us at all? Or is it just like, this is clearly its own thing, you know? Yeah, I never, I never felt that. And you, and you know, we've had conversations about that. I'm pretty sensitive about it. You know what I mean? Like, if I feel like it's something exploitive, it's so extreme. Right. That I don't, I mean, I mean, if people from wherever think that we're like that, I mean, then okay, fine. Right. And stay wherever you are. So. I didn't get, I didn't get sensitive about it in that way. But I do about stuff all the firm.

And, no, it was just so bizarre. And everybody in it is kind of a sociopath. It's like there's, what was in it is you got these serious, frigging sociopath surrounded by some really decent people. Like the people who work in that zoo, I love those people. Yeah. Like Safi, she gets her arm ripped off by a tiger. Oh, my God.

I mean, and Eric and the, um, Rinky, the guy with no legs. I forget, love all those people. And to me, those are the representatives of like people I grew up with on the hall, you know. What's interesting is how good people can get abused and exploited by sociopaths. I mean, charisma. It's just people who are so out there that they, that they, that's being an independent map. So, right, and, and tigers. They got charisma.

and I cannot stress enough, tigers. It just, it keeps coming up, man. Tigers have an effect on people, clearly. I've been the worst, Sean. I keep forgetting about the tigers, and Trey keeps having to remind me. And he's right. Like, don't discount him.

You do have to have charisma, but you've got to have charisma to have the balls to even gather more than one tiger around you. So you said that, you said that, was it Tim? You said was like your favorite dude, monkey man. Well, on that note, who do you think? And this is pretty, this is pretty hard because you can make a strong case for about, I don't know, everyone in this goddamn show, who is your

least favorite motherfucker or your Mount Rushmore a bag of shit if you want to rank them? I mean, for me, man, Jeff Lowe, the second I saw Jeff Lowe, when he shows up, when he, and they do such a brilliant job of it about, I think the last thing they say is like they thought he would be the savior. He would be, and then they cut, our first introduction to Jeff Lowe

is a white, like pearl white hummer coming through the gate of the way, you know what I mean? Soon as I saw that, I was like, I hate this fucking guy.

And then he's wearing those California fucking jeans and the fucking, I hate everything about him. Most other people, I kind of waned on how much I hated him. I never,

never lost any for Jeff That was, that's also our complete consensus as a group too was, I don't think. For all the same reasons. I didn't know we had a consensus. Hey, is that accurate, boys? That's, that's my least favorite. Is that fair for you and DJ?

For me, Jeff Lowe was definitely my least favorite because like, I, I mean, I hated. Okay, fuck. Now I've kind of flipped because like, it was Jeff Lowe. Jeff Lowe and then Carol, but then if I have to go, all right, but if you were facing the situation where you had to party with one of them, I would party with Jeff Lowe just to see what it's about. And I wouldn't want to hang out with Carol. So I don't know, man. Like, it's, it's just, it's hard to be a bigger bag of shit to me than like, I first off, I've never trusted any motherfucker who has buttons on the back pockets of their jeans. Never once. Like if I ever see that, never once. affliction shirts, immediate turnoff. But I mean, God damn, Carol, at least, he was a little bit self-righteous too,

but we keep coming back to like Carol's self-righteous and all that shit makes me hate her. But yeah, probably Jeff Lowe. I would punch him if I saw him. I would say mine is the government. Yeah, we didn't have a consensus at all, actually. I was wrong. Yeah, well, that is the government.

And yeah, the government, then goddamn, uh, probably Jeff and then Carol. Yeah, but, Sean, let me ask you. We've asked most of our guests this. We all agree Jeff fucking sucks. And he's definitely my, I think he's the biggest bag of shit in the whole thing,

for me, for sure. But the question is, if you were in Vegas already partying, already having a good time, and he walked up to you with his woman with him, and probably with a group of, people also with them and he showed you a picture and proved it, said, hey, we got baby

tigers in the room, we're about to go up there and party with all these people are coming too. You want to come up there with us? What would you do? Couldn't do it. Couldn't do it. I, dude, I couldn't not do it. I'm not going to lie. I can't stand that guy, but dude, I ain't never going to get to fucking play with a baby

tiger. Like, I couldn't not do it. No. It's I remember my niece, years ago, my niece and my daughter who's now 20, so my niece is 22. So I just probably 10 years ago or more, I took them to Cherokee one afternoon just to entertain them. I used to take them to, there used to be like a bear park, you know.

Yeah, I've been, I've been there. I've been there. I've been there. Okay. So I went, and I kind of knew that it was, I mean, you get to a certain point, I did anyway, I got to a certain point in my life where I got past. looking at like, well, that's awesome with that bear to going like, man, that sucks for that bear. Right. You know, that bear is like, it's some center blocks between him and the fucking great smoky mountains.

And we're feeding him fucking lettuce and whatever. Well, but I took them anyway, and it happened to be that that year or that summer, they had a fucking tiger. And they had a tiger cup. And all I can say is my niece insisted and just bitched and screamed about it so that I There's a photo of me somewhere with my daughter and my niece, a baby tiger. And if I can pull it up, I'll send it to you. But I'm not happy. I was like, this is wrong.

All of it. This is shitty. Maybe it's because it costs some of us. I don't know, but I remember thinking that it's like, this is fucked up. Like, what the fuck? Because you watch a tiger, and the tiger was in a small cage. And if you watch a tiger in a small cage, you can fucking feel it. It's like, that's the most miserable.

living organism I've ever been around. That is just, that's there's something wrong. That's the most awesome animal on the earth and at least on land.

And it's something fucked up about it. And that's, I think, part of this whole fucking appeal. You're right. It is about the tigers. And it's like, yeah, I'm not, I don't know. No, no, dude, like, here's the thing. Like, I agree with everything you just said it is fucked up. It is wrong. I just, I'm trash. And if I was drunk trash in

Vegas and there was a baby tiger out there, I just wouldn't be able to resist it because they're just so awesome. I'm saying like, I totally understand the allure that they have, you know. But like, I agree with everything you just said. Yeah. If you ask me, like, Drew, you don't have to pay for it. But when you get to Vegas, some dude's going to have a tiger there. I would be like, no, fuck that. But if I'm there and I'm drunk, and it's like, we already got him upstairs, all you got to do is file this apparently parade of hot bitches in Vegas dresses up the stairs to the room,

I'd be like, where to line at? Is there a cover charge? Let me go ahead to ATM. I'm there. For our next guest, Tray had a pretty sweet idea. We're going to bring in W. Earl Brown, who is Sean's co-star on the show Deadwood. so we're going to have sort of like a little mini Deadwood reunion in here talking about Tiger King. You also may remember Earl from season two of True Detective and also something about Mary and just a whole bunch of other stuff.

He's a character actor extraordinary. So now enjoy W. Earl Brown, everybody. Well, dude, look at that. He's at the gym saloon. And here's the thing. This was meant to be a surprise for both of y'all. They didn't even know this. Earl still has the gym behind him.

We're having a little impromptu deadwood reunion here with Dan and Johnny, Sean Bridgers and Earl Brown. at the same time, although on my end, it looks like Sean is completely frozen up. What are y'all saying? God damn it. Yeah, he looks very frozen. Sean, can you hear us? That's so appropriate. We wanted to have this special moment.

Oh, damn it. And just like Deadwood, it ended too soon. Too soon. Well, that sucks. Oh, man, he's just, he's gone. I know. Sometimes I don't know. Can you text him or something, Corey tone to check.

This is so, Raven. Earl, we talk to you and Sean both about doing it and wanted to talk to each of you individually, but we wanted to have, we thought this would be a cool little thing to just do. And so, of course, all the best laid plans, you know. Again, you even come in here with the goddamn gym behind you and everything.

It was so set up. That was coincidence, man. I know, I know it was. I just showed me this morning where you have all those backgrounds. Yeah. And it popped up. Would you like a custom background? Yeah.

So I'm saying it was all right there to be great. And then of course, the gods of Wi-Fi and technology fucked us over. But while we say, if we could get Sean back in here, Earl, how's it going? Well, you know, as I've said to members of my family, this is not a hell of a whole lot different than my daily life is like outside of going to the gym a few times a week. If I'm sitting around my house playing guitar, drawing pictures, reading, wasting a day. So for me, day-to-day existence, outside of having to gear up like I'm in some kind of post-apocalyptic goddamn movie to go to the grocery store. Well, when it comes to wasting a day or wasting some time, where do you rank Tiger Can,

on the list of ways to go about that. Well, I watched it. God, it was less than a week. So we were early adapters. And I said it was like watching a goddamn train wreck or German schizaporn. You know, disgusting. But you just can't take your eyes off of it.

So, yeah, I've been no. I mean, I go back with Joe Exotic, I remember seeing him on John Oliver's show. God, that was two years ago, or whenever he ran for president. So I was aware of the travails of the Tiger King before Netflix. So I found Krypton be a great antidote.

We have Sean back, by the way, ladies and gentlemen. Sean, you back with us? Hello, gentlemen. Hey, Earl, what's up, buddy? Hey, man, look where I'm at. Oh, look you there. Yeah. I told I said to Earl Sean we tried to do this little impromptu DeWood reunion on here and he pops up with the gym behind him and everything

but at that exact moment is when we lost you to technical difficulties so it's appropriate how that worked out but we just thought it'd be cool to have the two of y'all on here to talk tigers. If there's anybody can fuck the ringing up of a bell it's God damn Johnny. Hey, Earl, right before you joined, the last thing we were talking to Sean about, so I'm going to go and get your take on it. And let's say you were in Las Vegas and you were partying already and you were already, you know, getting fucked up and everything.

And some very clearly a douchebag walks up to you with his old lady and probably some other party type people there. And they show you pictures like, hey, we got this. these little baby tigers in our room, we're all going to go up there and play with them. When you think about that, what would you do? Well, that actually kind of happened.

We had a deadwood thing that HBO flew us to in Vegas. And that's, I don't know if they had any big cats, but the invitation to party. I said, no thank you. No thanks. Yeah, see, you and Sean, like, y'all are just,

y'all are just better men older and wiser man wait wait they might be they might be but earl didn't you just say they didn't have big cats yeah that's true they had big cats but there was a there was a certain invitation you remember what I'm talking about Sean oh god yeah yeah

you got to be after in the hall he goes man you he can't believe what shit just happened well wait well what did they have or yeah is that what we're talking about we're talking about If it's just an invitation for someone to observe. Yes. A husband to observe. Yeah.

Big Deadwood fans. Yeah, big Deadwood fans. Yeah, big Deadwood. That kind of happened, that actually happened me and Drew after one of our shows in L.A. After we did the ice ice and past. I was there, too, but I didn't get the invitation. I would like that. That's true.

He was standing right. beside us into knife we don't want a fat boy to see us fuck get on somewhere

but yeah this swingers although Drew I don't we we said no no but we said no

but if they had had a tiger who knows who knows that's another I'd at least showed up at the door that's another thing

is that y'all said no and they didn't even think to bring me in as a relief pitcher like I wasn't even fucking second draft Hey, Earl, did you have... Well, I think we said, well, we'll take your card.

We got stuff, you know, there's probably, you know, we got a... All right, see you guys later. That's what we said. Hey, Earl, did you have a... Because Earl's from Murray, Kentucky. Did you have any kind of crazy-ass animal people or animal shit where you grew up? Was there any kind of Joe, Exotic Light, or anything, anywhere around there? I mean, you know, there were the snake and reptile guys.

I don't remember anybody having any big cats. I remember someone having a wild cat that they had trapped and made a pet out of. But that's about the... According to this documentary, like a wildcat or a bobcat is like a gateway cat to the big cats. Because that's where a lot of them started, you know? No, why, well, we, like, because I did, in Salina, there was one. And I'm glad to hear that it wasn't as prevalent as all that, but we did have that type of thing going on.

Shit, what was I about to say? Oh, who did y'all? You know what's crazy is the most seemingly normal guy in this whole thing was the mass murdering basis for Scarface, the drug trafficker in Miami or whatever, right? Am I wrong? Like he seemed like he seemed like the most normal dude And he's sitting there casually talking about when that federal agent was dismembered in his presence

Right And then you get shit like Carol's husband being her like slave on a leash in their wedding pictures And it's like you don't even remember shit like that hardly by the time this is done like it don't even register with how crazy the rest of it is You know I got a theory that Joe Exotic would have been a fine and still running his zoo in Winningwood, Oklahoma, if he had, you know, met and fallen in love with Howard Baskin. Because he's been made this thing work prior. That's the problem.

He's one of those gay guys who only goes for the hot 19-year-olds, right? He couldn't find an age-appropriate accountant kind of dude. He would have been fine. But he picked the wrong husband. He only went for idiots. An age appropriate accountant type dude. Howard Baskins who took him down. It was that dude.

No, you're right. You're right, actually. Yeah. Because Carol's too emotional or whatever. I don't think she would have had to focus. That dude was like the nerd who never got any in high school. And then he met her. And she was beautiful when, you know, when they were first married, right?

And he was like, I'm the luckiest dude. the world. And he, I think he made it all come about because that was a determined guy. Like remember how many, like, he shows all the paperwork. He's got on Joe Exotic and it's like, however many of those, you know, file cabinets. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, you're right.

Maybe Harold is the, the mastermind behind this whole thing. Who knows? Do y'all think that, y'all think that Jeff Lowe is going to ever get any, like, come upets from any of this? Do you think you should? Yeah. I don't know. I think it was all just a parade of sociopaths.

I'm not team any of them. I think they're all not good people who saw reflected in the others all the horrible and vile things about themselves, hence their intense hatred of the other. So, but that's just right. What do you think, Sean? I got a question for the group. I got a question for the group. Yeah.

This just sort of heard to me just watching it through again. A guy that we haven't talked about, who I think is interesting, is James Garrison. Is that his name? Yeah. And, you know, there's at a certain point, you know, where he starts working for the feds because he's got an illegal lemur in his shock. One of my favorite things. Another thing that cracks me up, like they had to pause and laugh to myself and nobody else thought

was funny is when they have to. When they go into a shop, which looks like everything in there's stolen, doesn't it? Like, there's... Yeah, it looks like he just rented out a pawn shop to have office space and then didn't get rid of any of the stuff. So the guy comes in with his, you know, kind of shitty hidden camera, right? Probably in his glasses, right, or whatever. And James is just sitting there, his belly rolled over, and he's like, what are you doing? he's like, just grinding away.

Just grind, grind, grind. I don't know, you're not grinding. That motherfucker's never grind it. Anything in his life. I can't stand in me. But this is my question. So he works for the feds because he's got faulty paperwork on his lemur. And then he tells Jeff Lowe that he's working for the feds.

Can you do that? Like maybe I've just watched too many movies. But it's like if you, if you're an informant, you can't tell anybody. Right. You're not going to brag about it. You know, in the investigation. And then that kind of just kind of went away. Maybe I'm wrong, but that just went away.

They never mentioned that. It seemed to me like Jeff was also very much an active participant in it. And would that make a difference? I mean, I don't know. Drew, you know, you're the, you're the longer here. I'm saying initially, Jeff didn't know anything about the investigation. Do not forget. He became active participant.

Well, do not forget. that Jeff Lowe took a phone call in the middle of an interview before all that, and it was the feds. Also, don't forget that when Jeff Lowe went to the bank, someone there told him the feds were investigating. I didn't believe that. Did you believe that when you said that? Well, whether I believe it or not, my point, I guess,

is that Jeff Lowe wanted to get the feds involved because he saw it as an opportunity to get rid of Joe Exotic so that he could take his zoo. So can you tell the feds? I don't know if you can tell him or not, but as far as the feds go, if another dude shows up and says, I can be helpful too, here's how,

and he proves to be helpful, you're not going to turn him down. You know what I mean? And I've never dealt with the feds. I've dealt with CIs a lot, and absolutely CIs get their buddies involved and being CIs. You know,

I mean, it's a good way for a low-level crackhead, you know, and this is a different thing, but it's a good way for a low-level crackhead to make crack money. So, of course, they tell their buddies, hey, all you got to do is pop a few people,

and then they'll give you $200 and they want to rest you for smoking the crack. That's just how real James was with the snitch game. He was going to kill on himself. Yeah, snitching on himself. Yeah, he's going to hell on everybody. Hey, I got a question for you two fellers, Earl and Sean. What do you think Al Swerving would have thought about, like if Wood shown up with some tigers, like to hook out with some tigers in the gym,

how you think you would have felt about that? And, you know, what would y'all have had to do with it? He had to call it a specialty act and charged an extra fee. Yeah. I don't know. Johnny probably would have died. Yeah. I was going to ask what you thought.

Johnny's how Johnny would I handle the tiger. Eating some people to the tiger. I'm sure that happened. Johnny would have been the staff of Deadwood. He would have been. been the one who had his hand bit off. And the whole bunch. Swinging.

Jeff Lewis, cock sucker. Hey, speaking of staff, like real ride or die, right? Talking about, she loses her arm and's like, well, if I didn't go back to work there, then the media wins, you know. The media wins. Well, you know, I think all those people,

I think the staff at that place, like the Eric dude. That was one of my favorite scenes too was after he testified how they went back to his place and he was just fucking hammered drunk and they kept the rock camera rolling.

Remember that? It's just a very brief thing and I was like, that shit's real. You know? That was real. Well, Cali Eric Cowley there like he gives a shit, right?

Like that's what you're saying. He really does give a shit about those animals and that whole thing. Yeah. And that's the thing about the SAF or SAFie or whatever. There's no question that they did. And we keep saying it keeps coming back to the tigers.

It's like they frigging love those animals. And it was like a menagerie of sort of people on the fringes and they kind of had this thing that they shared and they loved it. And Joe probably did too at first. I mean, he says, you know, taking care of animals saved him. right, after he had his car wreck. So it's really about how fucked up shit gets, you know? That's, you know, everybody, with exception of Jeff Lowe,

has some things about them that I can go like, okay, I can see at least kind of why you're fucked up. Maybe Jeff Lowe has that too, but we didn't get into it. It's kind of like Grizzly man, you know, the film from a decade. Yeah, yeah. Watching this slow descent into, the more attention he got. Yeah. Like, actually, the interaction,

with the animals actually soothed a broken spirit. You know, it's probably genuine, but then his ego starts getting fed by all of the attention

he's getting because of it. Yeah. And it's slow descent into fucking madness. Yeah. Yeah. Shit happens. Yeah.

Do y'all think that, do y'all think that Joe was in any way in any way being any kind of fucked over at the end of this thing? like, you know, with the whole Carol deal and all that,

like how much of a Patsy was he in it versus how much like, I don't know, he's at the center of this thing, because that's a discussion we've had on here between the four of us. Well, is the question you're asking, Trey, seems to me, is do I think he paid Allen, whatever his name is, $3,000 to go kill Carol?

I don't know. I don't know if he did. I can see him pay him. $3,000 just to get the fuck out of there. I don't know. I mean, to go home, right? And, uh, well, I don't. To me, well, well, I guess we were talking like, and Drew said, and I agree with him.

Like, I think that to me it seemed like, what I think happened is, I think that Joe probably did most of that shit. They said he did where Carol is concerned. But I think that what also happened is that Jeff Lowe came in, had a Joe exotic problem, you know, wanted a way to get rid of him and kind of hatched this scheme in my mind of like, this guy wants this lady dead, and I think I can facilitate that while fucking him over and keeping myself out of it or something to that effect.

Or he might not have even thought of through that much and just sort of, I don't even know if he's smart enough to think it through. I think he's just every step, A person like Jeff Lowe was thinking, how can I make this work for me? Right. Every step. And Joe, one of the reasons he's so charismatic and entertaining is that he's so fucking wide open, right? We don't have shit about Jeff Lowe because that's the only thing about him that is smart is that keeps his mouth shut.

It seems like, right? And that's why I think, like, I'm not sure about the whole phone call thing. I was talking to the feds. some woman at the bank said something. I go to the bank off. They don't, you know what I mean? I don't know. Do you think,

No, go ahead. No, I just don't know. I'm still sort of back and forth about whether or not Joe really sent somebody out to kill Carol. I'm not completely convinced. I don't know. Because he just runs his mouth so much.

And you know what I mean? It's like, it's hard. But by running his mouth so much, it was like impossible not to convict him of it. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, he didn't do himself any favors for sure. But let me ask you all, as long time actors and creators, creative types in the world of visual media, telling stories and whatnot, what do you all think about? A lot of the decisions that were made in the interview scenes are like how people were like, like Sapp is literally in a junkyard. right but the most egregious one it to me far and away is in episode seven when would-be hitman Alan

just starts taking a bath in the middle of his interview and is just in the bathtub while being interviewed and in any of those instances none of that is ever at all addressed in any way and like

and John one of Joe's husbands John being shirtless for all his interviews and shit like, I don't know, how contrive do you think all that type of shit was creatively? You know, what do you all think about that? Well, it's been said so far that John has complained about the fact that they made him take out his, he had some implants or whatever. So they made, because it's one of the best moments in the whole thing is when the,

the sheriff is talking about math for some reason. Right. A's in your mouth. And then cut to perfect shot. Right. So the filmmakers were very, very clever. You know, I didn't even think about the saffy thing, though. That's really interesting. Now that you mention it, yeah, why was she? Yeah.

Just sitting in a junkyard. I mean, skinning in the bath, maybe part of that is that, you know, he's like cleansed himself of all crime or wrongdoing. I'm not just pilot asking for the water bowl at the end. I don't know. I think it was a bit manipulative. I read somewhere that Carol Baskin herself thought that the documentary was going to be like Blackfish, that the point of the documentary was going to be truly pointing out how shitty this is to do this to these animals. And I'm sure she's pretty surprised.

Right, okay. Actually, I want to circle back to that. But first, Earl, what do you think about the other question about the director and the role they played in how? all that kind of came across in those instances. Well, the contrivance of so many of those situations, it seemed absolutely production designed and planned. Right. You know, the shirtless guy, well, you know, one thing,

he seemed proud of his tattoos. So he wanted to show off his ink. But the fact that he has one tooth in his head, I didn't know he had dental implants. If that is true and they ask him to take it out, well, that tells you something. We're telling a story about, you know, nutty hillbillies. And so we got to make them appear nutty billies.

All the black is hay balt cross. Do you think that's on that? How fair is that? Do you know what I mean? Like, is that just generally, again, as, you know, creatives yourselves, like, is that, well, is that above board to do that? Like, it has been the thing on social media everywhere for the past fucking month. It's what our politics have devolved to.

You know, I find. talking love wrestling. I love AAW is my favorite that I've been watching recently. But I grew up loving wrestling. But I recognize that it's a play. It's show business. That's what it is. Well, now our reality,

and unfortunately our cultural world, our political world, has taken on all of that contrivance. Whatever draws the most eyeballs, whatever gets the most people talking about it, then that's what we do. truth be damned.

Competency be damned. Let's just tell a fascinating, weird story and draw attention to it. So that's what it is. That's why I said Crip Camp was such an antidote. Because I watched it. We watched it in three nights. I think we went through Tiger King. And then just about three or four days ago, I stumbled on Crip Camp.

You know, it's the exact opposite. There ain't nothing contrived about that. And it's a phenomenal film about, you know, the human spirit and compassion and how the world can be changed for the better. Um, and I don't think. Bo. Yeah. That's boring.

That sounds boring. You got no bomb on to be. Sat. No way I'm going to watch that. In all seriousness, I mean, hey, I'm going to watch that. But, well, I want to say something about the contrived thing. And this is just like an interesting tidbit to me. So, Sath, uh, is true.

trans and prefers to go by he. Now, you didn't know that because they call him a she, the whole documentary, except when he gets his arm ripped off and you hear Joe talking to the ambulance and the people are calling the cops, they're not misgendering him in that moment. And it's like, and that's like a small thing. It doesn't prove that these hillbillies are super woke. I mean, obviously they're all, they're literally toothless meth addicts. But it did, it did, like, strike me as like, you guys were trying very hard.

to make everyone shirtless and toothless. But there's this one little thing that like you guys fucked up as the filmmakers and these hillbillies got right. Well, they also did not mention in the film at all that that's not him singing. That's not his music. He wrote lyrics and sent him away to a producer

and paid to have them create songs based on his lyrics. You know, he's just mimicking them in the music video. Okay, see, you just said, you said that he wrote lyrics and sent him away. We've talked about this a little bit so far in the series. There's been like different versions of it put out there. And from everything from like, everything from like he, yeah, it's just a band,

but it's his songs. He sings them to he ain't singing or playing none of it. He didn't write none of it. And with all that, I was like, he surely at least wrote some of it, right? Just based on what the content was. But so he's not. I mean, I don't know. I know people who have done that

who played on those kind of songs where people will pay you know, a thousand dollars to have their dumb poem turned into a country song. So that's supposition on my part. I don't know what part of it he had to that he was creative or what part that someone else created.

I don't know. I just know that it was presented like, oh, that dude can kind of sing, man. He really can. And that's not true. Right. Well, so on the subject of how fair is this? Right.

No, go ahead, Sean. I was just going to say, not only can he sing he's a terrible lip-sinker. He can't even lip-sink worth of shit in video. He ain't no Milly-Binilly, I tell you that. What now? He ain't no Milly-Bin-I-Li. Yeah, I've nicknamed him Pilly Vanilla. Pilly.

Pilly. Which one of you have? At the end of the day, the videos hit. Yeah. So, all right, on the note of like, how fair is it, right, for them to be presented this way of his narrative to be presented and whatever else, Sean brought up Carol and said that Carol says that, you know, she thought this was going to be like a blackfish type of thing.

And like I'm sure she is very surprised. She comes across, I feel like most people is, pretty self-righteous and hypocritical and not that much better about this whole, you know, enterprise than her enemies are. And she, I'm sure, sat down with talking to them, expecting to be the hero of a blackfish-style documentary, and it didn't work out that way. And how fair is that, in y'all's opinion? To her.

Fair is not a word I use very often. But I've been an actor for 30 years. So I don't, I don't know, man. I think the guy just, the whole thing's so crazy that they just, they just rolled with it. There's no way this guy had any idea. The filmmaker had any idea what this was going to turn out to be. You can't. You know, it started off because he saw a snow leopard in a van in Florida, right?

He's like, what the fuck is this? And then he got into this world where one of the first guys who doesn't show back up, he goes, these big cat people are crazy. they're fucking and they're and you got to I mean that's that's the apex predator right behind you yeah right people who want to control and tame and hoard them there's something something off yeah and we just got in the world of like predators I mean Earl said it's sociopaths and predators and they all play their game different you know and we got to observe it and you know and and then intermixed with it is all these like actually decent people that you can be like yeah yeah that's i know

that guy i know like yeah yeah yeah no well you know i mean i i feel like and yet we're oh we all got the story that we were given but i mean i we said from the beginning when we started this series in episode one like i genuinely from the moment carroll showed up and it showed big cat rescue and her operation and what she runs before they even got into the like gory details of it when it just first came up, I immediately, in my head, was like, okay, I don't see how this is all that much different, you know, from the beginning. So like, I, I said how fair is it to my answer is, I think it's at least a little bit fair that she came across that way. No, no, no, I think she came across as who she is. Right. I don't think there's any question about it. I don't mean that.

I didn't mean that. I just meant, you know, the difference between her, the whole thing has to do with breeding cats. And the issue is, there's 10,000 in America, and there's 4,000 in the wild. You know, and like, that is an issue. And can potentially be a big problem at some point.

But I think that she's sincere about that. If she's not lying when she said that her deceased husband, what was his man, Don Lewis. Don Lewis. Don Lewis. Better not leave town. she would get fed over there to neuter them all, right? I mean, unless she's lying about that.

But that's what this is all about, right? Is the idea of breeding these cats that you can't do anything with except sticking a cat. And I think she's sincere about that. I think she's damaged to me very early on. She says she got raped 9.14 years old. Well, that I've got a 14 year old. That'll fuck you up forever, right? And it can make you become a person who gets to a certain point in your life where you

go like, you know what? I'm owed a little something. And I'll do whatever I need to do to get it. Right. And I don't think there's any question she did that. I don't think anybody. It's hard to doubt that, you know. Yeah, I agree with you. I don't know.

That's what I like about the whole thing is whoever they got into is kind of like fucking fast. Right. Trail wreck. Earl, you got any thoughts on all that? The whole Carol of it and everything. Well, it just goes back to what I said earlier with the sociopathy of it of those broken parts of themselves they and this goes back to what

Sean said earlier and we're talking like Grizzly man those broken parts they found somewhat sad by interaction with the big cats well those broken parts of themselves are the parts of themselves they hate you know it makes them weak and it's their pain well when you see it reflected in somebody else it's really easy to project it onto again the They're all the same. That was one interesting cut. It was cool in the edit of the thing is where her voiceover, where she's talking about he uses the cats to make money.

And then it cuts through her place with the long line of people waiting to pay their fee to walk through her. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, lack of self-realization on all of their parts. So the parts of themselves that they hate or feel weak about, they can project on somebody else. And it's easy to do because that,

other person has the exact same issues as you. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, very well said. I think we're about to probably about to wrap her up here, fellas. Corey, Drew, DJ, before we do, did y'all have anything you were wanting to ask these fine gentlemen? No, I mean, I think we've covered it all, and I can't add anything better than what Earl and Sean just wax poetic about,

especially on Carol. All right. With that said, Earl or Sean, do you all have any parting thoughts for us? No, we'll see what the post-apocalypse ends. Yeah. All right, well, hell of the job, fellas. Thank you so much for doing this with us. We appreciate it.

It's great to see both of you, and I can't wait until, you know, the world is reborn and we can all hang out again. Me too, brother. Yeah, I was back to say, boys. I hope the next time I see you is maybe not over the goddamn computer. Yeah. All right, everybody. Sean Bridgers, W. Earl Brown, everyone.

Thank you all very much, Fowler. We appreciate you. Thanks, guys. Good to see you. Next up on Tiger by the Tale, we have one of the best comedians work in the country today. That's not my opinion. That is just a fact. Roy Wood Jr., everybody from The Daily Show, and this is not happening. Enjoy. Here's the one takeaway I hope everybody takes away from the Tiger King. Is that there is no money in exotic animals. Clearly.

there's not like fucking goats right roy bro i would argue that there is more money in goldfish than tigers petco petco is a fucking conglomerate corporation they have a ballpark named after them in san diego

from just selling snack food to domesticated pets there's no tiger food and pet co there's no fucking iguana food and second what was some of the like it was all types of just weird shit in there a lamer i think that that that documentary exposes our fascination with charismatic hillbillies well thank god for that we've always had that obsession with charismatic oddballs especially southerners um i will say that i was thrilled to find out that all of most of this shit was going down

in Oklahoma. Right. Preach. The Midwest. The Midwest has got to take that body. Right. I was so upset he had the Southern Oklahoma accent and not the Midwest Oklahoma accent.

I was like, man, if he just enunciated words that ended in I and G, it would be fine. I also love that the other half of the story unfolded in Tampa, which is like Miami's Methodic younger brother. Right. I get why people love it because it's just such a drive. Romafield story, but I just feel like at his core, the dude was a dick to a lot of people. Yeah. I'm not sad that he's in jail.

I don't know the details of his case. But when they dig up, when they dig up, what was it, like 14 tiger bodies? Yeah. Or some shit. Come on, man. Like, even if you did euthanize him as you claim, you just throwing bodies on top of bodies like that. Like, you just don't do people like that. And shame on the people that.

go and, like, actually fall for Carol's bullshit, too, because she's just as guilty as he is. Now, there's no money in exotic animals, but there is money in making your rich husband disappear. Always. A lot of money in that. A lot of money in that. I would encourage anybody to look into that. Hell yeah. Roy Wood Jr., everybody.

Thank you so much, Roy. A pleasure. Good to see you. Good to see you, boy. Good to see you, man. All right, please. Keep your sanity. Yeah, I'll try.

So you, brothers. Last but not least here on Tiger King. Pretty sure you made Tiger by the tail, you dumb fuck. We've got one of our best good buddies, one of the best singer-songwriters in the country. You know him as the front man from American Aquarium, and I mean also our podcast, but mainly as the front man for American Aquarium.

It's BJ Barham, everybody, and this is going to round out the guest on Tiger by the tail. Thank you guys so much for hanging out with us. We've really enjoyed doing it. But before that, enjoy BJ Barr. I can't believe we got it either. There we go. What's up, man?

My man. Oh, there we go. Now I've got you guys all four. Yeah. I feel good about it. Yeah. What's up, dude? Not much.

Hey, everybody, look who it is. Friend of the Well Red podcast and singer-songwriter Frontman, extraordinary, BJ, Barham, everybody, Riley, North Carolina. What's going on, dog? What's going on, man? How are y'all? Good. Good, man. How are you hanging in there? Same as everybody else, just fucking at home and starting to get stir crazy and

doing a lot of fucking projects for the life. But other than that, I'm enjoying your covers. Growing this sweet-ass mustache. Mm-hmm. That right you are. Yeah, like Drew said, BJ's got a little quarantine series going on with covers he's doing on his social media

that you should definitely check out. I can't believe you have to defend Counting Crows. I didn't know that was a band people had to defend. Oh, that's a big deal. Like a lot of hipsters will tell you that they're a shitty band. And I always, I'll dial on that fucking hill. I'll dial on that hill that the Counting Crows are fantastic.

You'll dial on that hill. Hillside Manor. That's where you'll die, baby. BJ, you want to know how long this quarantine's been going on? You are the last human being that I had a conversation with outside of my house. Our conversation in your van before I went to the airport

is right before lockdown happened. You're the only person I've talked to on the outside. I told Drew that like y'all were the last time I got to eat in a restaurant. Yeah, likewise. You guys the last time. Yeah, man.

That was the last restaurant to go. go to. I ain't going to lie. Cooper's. Shout it out. Clyde Cooper's barbecue, Raleigh, North Carolina, holding it down. Uh, last meal that I had outside my house. So, uh, shout out to old Clyde Cooper's here in Raleigh. Fucking eight. Well, hey, man, how did you, uh, so how did you find out about the Tiger King? How did it come into, were you, uh, did you get on the ground floor of this Tiger King shit or? I think I was on the ground floor. Um, my inner redneck, uh, led me to, uh, to click on the recommended Netflix.

It was like, hey, if you like ridiculous redneckery, click Tiger Kane. And so me and my wife clicked it. And it was like, you watch the, you know, minute long trailer. And I was like, I'm related to this person. I guarantee I'm related. Right.

We got like five episodes in. And my wife's like, this is the craziest thing ever seen. I was like, we haven't even got to the part where he like plots to kill somebody. this is just the lead up to his ridiculous life. So I think it came out on a Friday and I put the cover up on Sunday. And then I was like, there's probably like 10 of my friends that'll think this is funny. And then it got 100,000 views in the first 24 hours.

I was like, oh, okay, this is a bigger cultural phenomenon than I thought it was. And so now if you type in Tiger King, I saw a tiger, the original version comes up, and I'm the second thing that Google tells you what. My man. There's so many people who come to the page and be like, oh, wait, this guy's like a real singer. He's like, as a band. And I was like, yeah, I just have nothing better to do than because me and my life, like, I don't know about you guys, but like second episode of this show, my wife looks at me.

She's like, the songs are pretty good. Yeah. That keeps coming up. Yeah, dude, here Kitty Kitty and I saw a tiger, those are jams, man. You know. Dude, when I heard Here's Kitty Kitty, I was like, if it, like, if these songs didn't mention the Tiger Holocaust, they could have been a B-side on like a Garth Brooks record, easily.

Yeah. The whole documentary is a pretty tremendous electronic press kit for Joe Exotic. Well, hey, but BJ, do you know the whole deal of the background behind the music, the songs and everything? Have you heard about all that? Yeah, I ran a Vanity Fair did like a big piece on them. And, you know, there's a guy who sings all the songs and there's a guy who writes all the music and writes all the songs. And Joe Exotic basically just lip synced all the videos and paid these guys a lot of money to keep their fucking. mouth shut.

So he didn't, we were talking about, we were trying to figure it, we weren't sure. Well, I read. It seems to me, like, how did he not? It just feels like he had

some creative input because of the content of the goddamn song. You know what I mean? Like, all this tiger shit, like, I read he gave him direction and I also read BJ

and tell me if this is a thing at all even possible, that he like played the tracks in his studio and then did sing over him and then the, like, then they put those in the background. so that he could honestly say,

I sang on that. Yeah, I think he, like, sang, and then they just bury his vocals behind. So you can do that. The lead vocals. And, yeah, it's sketchy as fuck. And it's not really him singing. But, yeah, I heard the same thing.

I heard that he, like, basically, it's like a co-write. He told them a story and was like, I want you all to write a song about this bitch, Carol Baskins. Like, she fed, like, because you could tell, it's like a paint-by-number song.

It's like, it hits like the six points that he probably had an email. It's like, we need to mention a Tiger Refuge, go to Tampa. We need to mention Don's name, Carol's name, and about how all this left is Tiger shit so I can rub some shit in my hands on campus. It's also great. You can just imagine those red dirt country type guys at Oklahoma. A lot of them old heads, it's like, hey, we need to do a song about this bitch I hate.

It's like, well, buddy, I got nine of those already written. We just need to change the name. Just, you pull down the binder of just bangers and you just flip through it. And you're just like, which one you want, man, you want a murder bow and you want an upbeat, upbeat, you know? I just imagine it. All right, that's fine. Yeah.

Go to the B. It's rolling it. Yeah. I think my favorite part about doing them, though, was like the 15 to 20 outtakes of me trying to keep a straight face. Like, the first 20. or like me, like, I was Jimmy found on Saturday Night Live. I just couldn't

make it through like three lines without fucking, like, trying to say the Tiger Holocaust and keeping like a straight, like, faith and be serious. Like, there's so many like outtakes of me playing and getting all the way through it and then being like,

think about what we lost in the Tiger Holocaust. I guess I got to go back and do this one again. Such a good line. Oh. It's poetry, if you think about it. Hey, I wanted to ask you, because you mentioned earlier, you saw it and got recommended. You said you're 10 minutes into it.

You're like, I might be related to this fucking guy. You said it called out to your inner redneck, right? And we all obviously relate to that. And we've talked a little bit on the earlier episodes of this about how to feel about how this reflects upon, you know, just redneckery in general. Like obviously, you know, did any of that occur to you? How much of a shit about that? do you give? How much of that do you think happened as far as, oh, this set us back?

Like, how you feel about that? You know, the only people that think that Southerners are like that are the same ones that think we're all toothless, embread rednecks that fuck our cousins. Like, they already have that preconceived notion of what Southerners are. So if anybody that's watching the Tiger King, which is like really and truly, it's the worst of the worst. If somebody's watching that, man, I bet you that's how everybody in Oklahoma is, they were never going to have their mind changed about Southern folks. in general. I tried to tell people, I'm like, every single town in the South has a Joe Exotic.

He might not be a gay Second Amendment preaching Tiger trainer, but there's that one guy in every town. He's usually the fucking mayor who wants to keep his name in people's mouths, so he does these crazy fucking things. It's either the used car salesman or the mayor, and he's this ridiculous local townie. It just so happened that this guy got a Netflix seven series documentary. made about it. Ours was fuzzy orange and the Knoxville paper drove out there to do a story on him. And it was like, that's his real name. And it was like, no, it's not. His fucking name ain't fuzzy

orange. He changed it legally. Having to explain that to somebody's funny. Excuse me, journalist. That's not his real name. No, it is. I saw his license. Well, we know how courthouses work. Our people have to go there all the time. Man, it's so funny. It's like Joe Exotic. It's like, that's not his real name, but so many people are like, man, the crazy part is like, this series got him everything he wanted before he went to jail. Like, he's famous, like, he could rerun for governor of Oklahoma right now, and I guarantee you, in a landslide, he would be the governor of Oklahoma. Did y'all have, did you have, in where you grew up in North Carolina,

did y'all have any kind of, any wild-ass animal people specifically? because Joe Exotic in my hometown was also a gay animal lunatic who had like a zoo and like the day. I keep calling it a zoo because I don't know else to call it. But for the record to y'all too, because I brought him up multiple times. Big Bob, you couldn't like, he didn't sell tickets. You couldn't go there. You just had to like stand on the other side of the fence and like, you know, try to catch a glimpse of the zebra on the other side of the field or whatever. But did y'all have anything like that?

I had a cousin who bred emus. and you could go and like pit and I'm talking about like 40 fucking emos like in the middle of reason. Was it for the meat? Yeah, he sold it all for meat, but it was also one of those things like, hey, little Timmy's having a birthday party and we couldn't get the pet and zoo from three counties over. So can you bring a couple of emos and let him run around and let the kids chase them? And he's like, fuck yeah, 50 bucks, I'll do whatever you need me to. And so then all of a sudden he'll bring out a fucking bunch of emos on a row. rope and, you know, chase them around your yard and...

Wasn't that big money? Yeah. It's always going to be a way... What's that? Wasn't that big money for a little while? Emu meat? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. There was a couple of emu farms. The only reason I knew more about this one is because I was related to it. And, you know, I had a direct line to the emu king of Rockingham County. Damn. You know, I don't like to brag. I don't like to brag about the connections that stardom has got me. Yeah. But if you need a fucking petting zoo, emu, I got you.

I want to hear the emu king of Rockingham County. That sounds like a dope song. Oh, I'm already two verses in, man. I'll have that up on YouTube next week. Are you generally inclined for this type of shit? And entertainment-wise, I mean. Like, I don't know, like train wreck type shit. Like, are you generally into that or did this stand out for you otherwise?

Like, when I think of train wrecked shit, I think of like Springer and stuff. Like, uh, right. This is, this is just like a really intense seven-part springer. Because each one of those episodes was like, you know, the first episode is like, hey, married two straight guys so they could do them at the pet tigers. And the second one's like, oh God, did she kill her husband or not? It's like, it's literally like a marathon of Springer's all put into one umbrella. look. I usually, I'm not a clickbait kind of guy where, you know, I'll watch it.

But when you watch that trailer and you hear that guy like, this is a fucking maniac in the middle of fucking bomb fuck, Oklahoma. Like I was like, yeah, I'll give that at least 60 minutes of my time and see if I'm interested. And after you watch one episode, I know people who like turned it off 10 minutes in. They're like, this shit's not for me. This is ridiculous. But me, I was like, fuck, what? I got to see what happens. Yeah, absolutely. What do you feel like I didn't give a shit about him trying to kill somebody.

It was the lead up to him trying to kill her. It was the fucking story. Yeah. Do you, let me ask you a couple of, uh, quick header questions where you stand on some of those things. What, what happened to Don Lewis, B.J? Oh, he definitely got eaten by a tiger. Like, he was, he was covered in, uh, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, Cardine, Sardine oil.

Yeah. She covered him in sardine oil, drove his truck to the airport, uh, fed him to a thud Tiger and nothing was left but Tiger, Trangang! All right, what about what happened to the TV studio? The TV studio, he'd burn it down. I've got enough, I've got enough family members that have set fire to things for insurance purposes.

I know a fucking arson when I see one. He definitely set fire to it because if he couldn't have that footage, nobody was going to have that footage. So that is a Joe Exotic original. Who's the biggest piece of shit in the documentary, in your opinion? Out of all of them, every character. Which one's the biggest piece of shit? Man, the Myrtle Beach guy?

Doc Hantle? I didn't like him that much. He was a little too weird. And they're all fucking, like, when the most normal dude in the entire show is someone who openly admits to sawing off a federal. just did on his property. And he said that like, yeah, I like butter in my mashed potatoes. Yeah.

Like he said it's so fucking nonchalant. Like when he is the center, when he's like the normal. The strike man. Yeah, like he was the one that I was like, man, he's like the most normal guy. And then you think back, it's like, oh, wait, he served time for murdering people. He's literally Scarface. He's Scarface. They literally sure.

showed a clip of Starface describing what he did to that federal agent. It's based on him. He cut off someone's head with a fucking circular song. Yeah, but also he got charged for it and he did his time. So, like, why would he feel bad about it? That's the best part. It's like, he came out on the other side of this. Yeah, I went to prison for 10 years, but now I own a shit ton of exotic cats.

Yes, yes. You, I mean, you. Joe Exotics are pretty big. big piece of shit. Carol Baskins is basically running the exact same thing as Joe Exotic. Only selling it is something different. So she's a giant bag of trash.

Everybody's a fucking walking Mountain Dew ad. And I kind of like that. Yeah. Well, yeah, it's what makes the whole thing work, you know. So calling them pieces. I don't know. The guy in Myrtle Beach is the one that give me the, like, he was kind of skinny, you know.

All right. All right. Last one. and then, well, other than any parting thoughts that you have after that, but like, what is it do you think is this, this allure of these goddamn tiger, like the effect that these fucking big cats clearly have on people is like its own kind of drug, right? Like people, so many different people said they basically, like indentured themselves because they were like, well, yeah, but did you see the cats that I got to fuck with all day?

Like, did you miss that? because that was my payment. Like, what is that about? Like that one dude who was just like, yeah, I go to Vegas and I get all the pussy because they want to pet cats. I'm like, never in my wildest dreams when I was going through in my early 20s,

like, what can I do to impress this hot girl? Not once did I think, fuck, I got to find a tiger. Like, that's the only way I'm getting laid. Well, BJ, to be fair, you are a very talented guitar player songwriter, that is like having a, like, that's why these people get Tiger, they don't have a talent. He's making a valid point, though.

Yeah, but he didn't have to, you didn't earn as desperate as Jeff Lowe. Okay, but if BJ had also had a tiger, my God. Oh, my God. We wouldn't have him on this podcast right now. We'd be talking about how famous BJ is. We'd be like, you know who this reminds me of, my favorite singer-songwriter in the world, Tiger Man, BJ Barham. Tiger Man, BJ Barham.

Yeah. BJ Barham and Brothers Circus. That's what you can name your Bam. It's one of those things like, don't get me wrong. I've done weird things to hang out with animals. Like there was this one time in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. These dudes come up to me after the show. And they're like, you want to go hang out with some alligators?

And I said, yeah. And so I swear to God, this is back in like drinking days. I got in the fucking car with these guys. We drove two hours outside of Baton Rouge. I didn't know these guys. The rest of the band stayed at the hotel. I got in a car with five strange dudes that I met his show. I had to get in the car the next morning at 8 a.m.

and drive to another gig. I got in the car that went out in the middle of nowhere, fucking Louisiana. We got in a boat, drove about four miles up through the swamp, and we literally just were reaching our hand in the water and yanking alligators out and playing with them. Well, was it worth it or what? Like, you know, do you recommend it?

Totally fucking worth it. It was the fucking raddish shit. And I looked at him and I was like, hey, you guys are fucking awesome. Did you end up marrying one of those dudes? Yeah, I don't know if I'd suck his dig. You know? Like if somebody was like, hey, man, you want to go grab some gators? I'm like, fuck yeah, let's go get some gators.

Like, my dick says like, no, I'm down for the gator grabbing, but I'm not really going to play with your penis. Well, thank God they didn't have tigers. But to be fair, nobody offered me. blow and gator grabbing. Right. If it had been some form of upper and exotic animal. Yeah.

Like said meth and tigers, you know, for example. With your quarantine stash, you kind of look like Travis. And I mean, I mean, he's, you know, he's a good-looking dude. May he rest in peace. I take that as a compliment. Yeah. Did anybody else think he looked like Sturgle Simpson? Yes.

I called him Struggle Simpson on the Thrift. It was like literally me and my wife looked at each other like four episodes in and she's like that kind of looks like Sturgel Simpson was like very much so looked like Sergill Simpson. Well buddy before we have to sign off here which we regrettably do if you got any other last final parting thoughts for us

and also if you're going to tell people what you got going on or how to find you and follow you and all that good shit. Yeah, final thoughts. anybody's watching or listening to this outside of the south. We're not all like this. Some of us are actually educated and well-spoken. We sound like fucking mutants, but we still are pretty. We're able to put together sentences that make sense.

We're not all animal-abusing, gay, gun-toting, polygamist. Some of us are, and those people get their shows. The rest of us just live our life, like normal fucking human beings. if you want to find out about my music, American Aquarium is my band, Americanacquarium.com. I'm on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook. I post ridiculous thoughts and pictures.

So feel free to tune in or not. These guys vouch for me. Very much so. If you don't like my original songs, there's a bunch of Tiger King covers on my YouTube page. You'll dig those. Fucking how you will.

Yeah, BJ's the shit. As always, thank you so much. Thank you guys so much, man. Y'all, y'all be safe, and I'll see y'all on the other side of this thing. Right on top. Be safe, brother. Take care, guys. Well, that's it for Tiger by the Tail, everybody.

We really appreciate you guys sticking with us from beginning to the end. We've been really happy to produce this. Unfortunately, it took a quarantine for us to do it, so we hope that that isn't the case again. But we did enjoy it, and we would like to continue doing more things like this for you guys. So sound off in the comment on something that you would like the Well Red podcast to do a limited series on. Take care. Stay safe.

Wash your hands. And stay inside if you can. Love you, everybody. Thanks for listening. Well, in Wood, Oklahoma's where we meet our Tiger King. He's got them monkey champs and tiger cubs that keep his thing. He's got all his meth head buddies and they're all working for free. Serving cheap to Toteino's pizza covered in rock a Walmart meet.

Then, of course, there's old Doc Anto. Tigers made him rich, and don't forget about Carol Baskins, man, we fucking hate that bitch. We got a tiger by the tail, baby, tiger by the tail, we got a, tiger by the tail, baby, tiger by the tail, we got a, tiger by the tail, baby, tiger by the tail, baby, tiger by the tail, we got a, tiger by the tail, baby, tiger by the tail, we got a, tiger by the tail, baby, tackle by the tail.