We're All Insane - Abused at the Psych Ward

Episode Date: February 27, 2023

Abuse in psych wards can have severe and long-lasting effects on patients, including post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), depression, and a worsening of their mental health condition. Forms of abuse may include physical restraints, excessive use of medications, and verbal abuse from staff or other patients. The power dynamics inherent in the psychiatric ward environment can also lead to situations of sexual abuse or exploitation. Contributing factors to abuse in psych wards include staff shortages, lack of training, and inadequate policies for reporting and investigating incidents of abuse. It is imperative for psychiatric facilities to prioritize patient safety and implement preventative measures such as regular staff training, proper staffing levels, and clear reporting and investigation procedures to ensure that patients are not subjected to any form of abuse. Nia: https://www.instagram.com/bittnia/ You can support Nia here: https://gofund.me/7a489a48 FREE-1 year supply of Vitamin D and 5 free travel packs with code INSANE: www.athleticgreens.com/insane If you have a unique story you'd like to share on the podcast, email [e-mail]. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, it's me DeVora. I just dropped an all new bonus episode inside my new subscription channel, We're All Insane Plus. This week's bonus episode is called My Brain was slipping into my spine. Listen now by subscribing to We're All Insane Plus inside your Spotify or Apple Podcasts app or go to we're all insane.com. Hey guys, welcome back to the show. Today's episode is sponsored by Athletic Greens.

So make sure you go to Athletic Greens. com slash insane to get your free one-year supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs with your first purchase. Enjoy the episode. Hi, I'm Nea and I got abused at a psych ward. For context, I guess the best place to start would be my childhood, like where my family's from. My parents, both immigrants from Jamaica.

So don't know the most about mental health. I'd struggled with like mental health stuff since like eighth grade. And mostly my symptoms were depression and anxiety. So it kind of came to a peak at a point because, like, my family wasn't super aware of, like, mental health in that sense. And sophomore year, I got admitted, like, three times within three months in, like, 2015. And it was, like, a big reckoning.

I got admitted mostly for, like, suicidal ideation. No attempts, but just, like, the vibes were off. I wasn't feeling it. So was that your parents' choice to send you? No. The first time I actually went to just like a physical, like a checkup. And my doctor was like, how's your mental health? And my mom was like, she's been depressed.

And I was like, no, like it's really bad. Like, I'm trying to not do this anymore. And my doctor was like, oh, this is a medical emergency. And so I went to the ER and I got admitted for the first time. Okay. And then the second and third times were basically me being back and forth from a partial program. So I was kind of like out of school for three months doing this. half therapy, half school thing.

And like, it was not a great program. So, like, I would go back and forth between there and the hospital. Yeah. But once I graduated out of that, went back to school, was on, like, medication, I was good, you know, especially because now my family kind of understood my situation more. My symptoms, mental health, mental health practices, the industry. Yeah. Things were good. You know, I graduated high school, gone to college, you know, slayed.

Like I did. I moved to New York. It was all very cool. And I kind of felt like, you know, things happen. But my mental health was pretty stable from like 2016 to 2021. You know, so I didn't see this coming. I definitely didn't see this coming. In 2021, I had like gone through a breakup, actually like two breakups.

And it was rough. I was kind of reckoning with my identity. and what kind of person I am, I guess. Which is normal. Yeah. I don't know. This is the best of us. Fun 20s.

It all came to a head and I was just really suicidal again. Like it was bad. Were you still on medicines at this point? No. No. Okay. Like I got off meds honestly in like 2017. Like I'd just been raw talking.

Because you were just doing better. I was just doing better. Yeah. I think I, honestly, I think my family's support just changed a lot of things. And like I was in therapy. Yeah. I started 2022. in a bad place.

And I knew that. Like I'd been in that place before. So I called my mom and I was like, I need to come home and I need to go to the hospital. She took me. And I went. And this was also, mind you, like back in the day, I was in the child units. So like different ballgame. Right.

This was my first time in the adult unit, but in New Jersey. And it was fine. You know, it didn't really help. But I think a lot of people kind of have this idea that like the psych is where you go and you just need a little break. You know, which wasn't my mentality, but it kind of was. So it was nice, you know. And I really want to accentuate and emphasize, like, the different circumstances at this hospital in Jersey, where it was, like, mostly, like, white patients who were on, in the process of, like, weaning off of, like, drugs, like, substances.

So it was chill vibes. Everyone was kind of slumped, but, you know, we listen to music. We did art therapy. It's the psych word. Yeah. So how long were you there? during that stay? Six days me five days. Yeah. And I convinced my mom, like, I'm chill. I'm, I want to go back to the city. I'm going to get back into it. And I did. It was not the good way to

make. But I went back and I had just like one of the worst weeks, terrible week. Like, by the end of it, like, there was like a party. And I was like, it was at my apartment. I had a party in apartment I couldn't get out of bed and like my friends were mad at me because I couldn't get out of bed and then they ghosted me after and I was like why I was just like face-time everyone like what's going on because I was like I was just in the hospital and everyone knew so I was like why is what's going on it was some petty stuff I tried to self-buye it was not I don't remember much of it the ambulance came took me to a hospital called Woodhull Hospital was this in New York this was in New York This hospital is in Bushwick, which was the area slated for where I was living.

And this is all a week after you just got out. Yeah. Okay. Before this, you were in New Jersey, in hospital in New Jersey. Okay, back in New York. Right. Bad week. Now you're going, the ambulance comes.

You're going to a hospital in. In Bushwick, Brooklyn. So I don't, and I was there for seven, seven, eight days. The first day, super blurry. I was in the, like, ER wherever they were trying to figure out if they should admit me or not. And then I don't know what pushed them. pulled them in either direction. I don't remember the conversations I had, probably based on nothing based on what I know about this hospital, but I did get admitted. Yeah, instantly,

I was very much aware of the contrast between these two hospitals that I'd stayed in. Yeah. Not only demographically, but also like just qualitatively, you know, care-wise, attentive-wise. Like, it was not, something was off immediately when I got on the unit. And this unit is like, it's just a square. It's just like a little box for a little hallways. with a pathetic little, if I can even call it a garden, you know, like there's not sun, really. You can't, there's no windows, really. And like, I had a view of the parking lot, which was awesome. And like the first few days, I was really on my righteous stuff because I, you know, I'm the Libra.

I was like, this isn't right. Yeah. And like the stuff that was going on was like, there was some issues with my pain medication, you know, and they weren't, I was asking for like something stronger than Tylenol. And he wasn't going around to the right doctors. A doctor had like patronized me and said, oh, I'll do it. And then found out he was a psychiatrist. He wasn't, he didn't have jurisdiction to give me pain med.

So like a little bit of lying, a little bit of games, you know, and they also, you know, they were having community meetings. And at past hospitals I'd been to, you have community meetings every day. They had them once a week, once while I was there. And I was asking questions. I was very adamant about, because it was very clear their protocols were kind of, can I curse? Yes. It was bullshit.

I started asking questions that were commonplace in other units. Like, are we allowed to touch each other? You know, like, other units are like, you can't physically, you can't high five, you can't do anything. Like, no. And I asked that question. And they were like, oh, we don't really know. Like, just like nothing inappropriate.

Like, everything was off the fly. Right. And so by that point, it started documenting everything, dates, times, names, the smallest of instances because I was just like, I was like, I'm going to get them. And like, it wasn't even bad yet, which is so funny that I was like really like serious about like just like, oh, my meds are wrong and like the chairs are dirty. But like it, it was crazy. So like since from the time that you went in there, you kind of knew like this place is just fucked up. Yeah. But I didn't know to what extent because I think there's a difference between just being like, oh, like the hospital is,

doesn't have the best atmosphere. Right. And like also, and like a systemic problem that's really disenfranchising and hurting vulnerable people. Right. Which is what it came to be.

Okay. So at that point, I'd been there for four days and been a lot of like patronizing, condescending, ignorant comments. Like towards you? Towards everyone. Okay.

So you noticed it in general? 100%. 100%. Even when it wasn't targeted at me. And also just like, there were little things. You know, well, big things. The nurses station, which is where you get your meds and you request things, whatever,

at all other units I'd seen, there's no barrier, you know. And I, it was cased in glass, which I think already says a lot. You know, the nurses want safe haven from the patients. So I was like, okay, this is a different ballgame. And it became like a laughable barrier to the point people were banging, banging, banging, trying to just get water, toiletries, tampons, like getting necessities was an undertaking. I saw like a pregnant patient who had diabetes, like asked for insure and get denied. They're like, there's nothing.

This is a hospital. I like had to give her, like my mom would bring me snacks. I gave her like some sour patch kids or like eventually, which I'll get to, I got put on a one-to-one. And like my one-to-one nursing assistant was like, like, the only staff on the unit. It was like 5 a.m. I guess. But a patient asked, hey, can you take me to the back to get a glass of water? Which is like 10 feet away, max.

And she was like, no, I'm watching her. I was like, I'll get up. Yeah. We'll just walk to get some water. But it was just like that arrogance and that apathy was so, it was palpable in the early days. But it didn't really get real until day five. Because that was a Saturday. And like, people have always said it.

There's nowhere worse to be on a weekend than a psych ward because no one is working. There's no doctors. Not that there really was any actual treatment, therapeutic treatment going on in this ward. It's a playpen. It's a holding cell. It's not, there's nothing therapeutic about this place. But on weekends, they don't even pretend. Like, it's, you're walking around waiting for the day to be over.

There's only people on staff for medical assistance. you can't like get physicals you know you can't um there's no doctors therapists social workers social workers are the ones who handle your case and get you out you can't get discharged on weekends like it's stifling and quiet and sad yeah and on Saturday I asked the janitors because I was just like really fit up and I was like you know what I'm going to be a martyr I guess and so I was like you guys need to, because at this point there had been like piss and period blood and crumbs on like our only seating area for like as long as I've been there. So I was like, give me like a wipe and I'll do it because like it's gross. It's disgusting. And the janitors came in. They were like mocking

me. They were like, okay boss. Like I guess she's like just being patronizing. On Saturday, some medical students came to visit and different groups from different colleges to check out the unit, talk to the staff and the patients, I sat down with some of the, with the first group and we had a very, you know, nuanced conversation where I divulge my thoughts about the mental health landscape and it was very peaceful. And I was like, yeah, when I get out of here, it's going to be, you know, like things need to change. It was very peaceful. It was very, and they were like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was cool. And so I was prepared when the second group came in to do the same thing. You know, I wanted them to know, I'm sure they could very well tell, but that like,

you're the future of the medical industry, like, don't let things be like this, you know? But that did not end up happening because, well, earlier that day at lunch, I sat down with another patient and I say this and I want to like emphasize that I know means, by no means, but I by no means want to demonize the patients at this institution because obviously, there's circumstances. Like, it's just, these were allies more than anything. And he asked to have sex with me. Like, we were eating lunch and he was like, you want to have sex with me?

And I was like, ah, okay, older men being weird, like used to it, moved on, whatever. But then I, when I was waiting for the second group to come out, I saw him come out of my room, which was a big no-no because the men and women's units are kept separately. So I was like, and I was the only one who's. saw it. Like there's staff on the unit. Nobody saw it. So I'm looking around like, even the students were there. No one's doing anything. No one's reacting. So I go up to this medical assistant and I'm like, hey, you just like walked out of my room. Yeah. She's like who? I'm like, well, he took a sheet. Like I also don't even want to frame it like it was predatory

because I think he really, he was making like a little garment. So he took a sheet off my roommate's bed and like made himself a little thing, whatever. But I still was like, okay, a little uncomfortable. Like I wish we could establish, yeah, like some boundaries on the unit. The medical assistant, like, patronized me and was just like, they refused to identify him. And I can't stress how ridiculous that is in the sense there was like eight, nine men on the unit. He was draped in sheets and it's not a large unit. And they should be able to recognize everyone on the unit. But they made actually no effort to identify him.

And I wasn't going to like point him out for my own safety. but I was like he's wearing sheets. And I was also like, you can check the cameras and see this. They didn't. Like, they didn't care. This was very scary because this is at the point where I realized, like, oh, this is, like, bad hospital. Like, they don't care about people.

Where I was like, oh, like, my well being could, like, very well be in danger. Like, I'm trying to report, like, an instance of sexual harassment. And they're like, well, that's really unfortunate. Right. So I started having a panic attack. And I was, like, trying to plead with her. And, like, this is something. I think about often. It was like out of a movie, I felt like I was in the twilight zone because I was

like, this is wrong. Like, this isn't okay. Like, do the right thing. I just kept saying to her, do the right, do the right thing, do the right thing. And she's just like, maybe you should, you know, lie down. Maybe you should, like, do you want to get the meds? Like you're the crazy one. Like, I'm crazy. And so I go, I'm like pacing. And there were these two disgusting pay phones. And I call the front desk. And I'm like, hey. And I can't. And I'm trying to get through. Like, obviously, you know, a lot of places, a lot of different parts of the hospital will, like, block the pay phones or whatever. It's from the psych word.

But I called a friend desk and I'm like, hey, I'm freaking out. I just got sexually harassed and no one's doing anything. And like, I can't, you know, I don't know what to do. And she was like, are you serious? And I was like, yeah. And she was like, you should call the police. I was like, um, okay. I guess that's my option now.

So I call 9-1-1 from the psych ward phone and it doesn't go through. I call again and it gets intercept. I'm guessing it. I hope it got intercepted because what the operator said was, bitch, you're fucking crazy. You're acting crazy on the cameras. We're going to come down there and sedate you. I was like, I'm Anna Garcia, host of True Crime News, the podcast.

Every week we bring you in-depth coverage on cases making headlines, as well as those that go under the radar. Tune in for murders that defy explanation, mystery seeking exploration, and shocking secrets that will leave you breathless. Each week, we honor the victims by going beyond the salacious in our search for justice. Crime never stops, and neither do we. Listen to true crime news available now wherever you get your podcast. So like when you were trying to call 911, you think the mental hospital was intercepting the call? I think it was the security.

I think they definitely have set security for the wards. Okay. And I'm guessing, you know, this isn't the first time a psych ward patient has tried to call 911. Right. That's what I said. Yeah. So that's what they said. Come to find out they were definitely looking at different cameras on a different word because I later found out there were eight of these little tiny units I was on.

So they were definitely not talking about me because I obviously wasn't acting crazy. I was just standing at the phone. Yeah. I don't want to say acting crazy. I wasn't being volatile. I was just like shaking and standing. Right. And so I was freaking out more because I was like talking the head nurse is just watching all this happen.

Like he he's a character, but he was just like looking at me. And I was like, he says he's going to sedate me. You're not going to let them sedate me, right? And I'm freaking out. So at this point I'm like, wow, like this guy's still like walking around. Like they're not doing anything. I'm being threatened and like called crazy and a bitch by random people on the phone. Like I don't, I can't get out of here.

It's a weekend. My social worker doesn't even care. Like this is terrifying. I felt stuck. I trapped. Yeah. Yeah. And so I started, the nursing students were in the nursing station behind the glass at this point.

And I just started banging. I was like, this isn't right. This is wrong. Like, are you seeing this? This is not how people should be treated. And I'm sobbing. It was dystopian. And everyone just looked at me, like behind the glass, like this little class.

And they're like, okay, maybe it's time to leave. And I was like, yeah. At that point, I think I was like, you know what, I'll take the pill. I just want to go to sleep. That's when it really kind of felt serious to me. Also, when I was on the phone and I was like, you're not going to let them sedate me. Like, this is crazy. The head nurse looked at me and he said, you're very sick and you don't have as much insight as you think you do.

Which I was like, wow. Yeah, that's great. there was the main therapist, Inga, and then this guest therapist, and they were the only two members of the staff who were white. And I bring that up because I felt such a distinction in the way what was happening on the unit was understood by the staff. Like, Inga and this guest therapist were terrified constantly. And Inga said to me once, she was like, I told, the social worker, you know, that you're more high functioning, not to advocate for your release, but just so they would know. It was all very dogless, all very coded, because I was like,

what do you mean by that? She also, and I asked her, like, I was like, are you okay? Like, in the way that she was, she was just stressed. And she was like, you're too smart to lie to. I'm feeling overwhelmed. Believe it or not, it's not always like this. And I was like, it was clear to me that she was so aware this was unethical treatment, like vulnerable, disenfranchised, mentally ill, majority people of color. And I can tell, like, I just got the vibe. She was like, I went to psych school to like make the world a better place. And then she got here and she was like, oh, no. So how many times was she coming in? Like, how many times did you see her there? Was she there every day or? No. She definitely, this happened during the week, not the weekend. Like anything she,

she, from her coming in, she kind of just saw how people were being treated and stuff like that. And that's why she said that to you. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Because she was well aware. And she knew I was aware. Okay.

In a way, like, other people weren't cognizant of like the systemic stuff going on there. I addressed it. And I was like, you, and I knew she knew. And I could tell she felt so guilty about it. She was well-meaning, but complicit at the end of the day, which was sad. And the other guest. therapist was the same way. She brought on mandela's once to have us color in. And I was just mad as else. So I was like, can you give us some research on the backgrounds of mandolas and therapeutic

use? She was like, you know, I can't really, I'm kind of overwhelmed right now. I can't do that. Like, I wonder. She was like really stressed out. But she kind of like took it as an excuse to get off the unit. Like I journaled about it later. And I was like, I feel like she went and like took her break to go print the thing of the research about the mandolas and therapy. Yeah, it was just, it was really interesting to watch. And I mentioned those two specifically because I feel like the black staff, I have a lot of thoughts and theories about like why this is so accepted and okay. And like so normal to them, like watching the things that continue to happen in this environment happen.

Yeah. And I think it's a majority of the staff were immigrants and my parents are immigrants. And like obviously we have different understandings of mental health. And I think when you come to America, you know, you have this understanding, like, I'm going to make money I'm going to provide for my family. Going into the medical field is, you know, revered. It's hardworking and you make good money, right? And I think seeing majority, like people of color black patients on drugs or having mental health crises being inconsolable or not making sense, it felt, they felt like, well, we have the same circumstances. You know, we look the same.

But look at me. I'm a doctor and you're here. It felt like they constantly looked down on us. And that showed it was present in the treatment. Like we were less than. Right. Obviously. That was very potent constantly.

Just that like distinction between like the white therapists who were like, I did this because I cared. And now I'm complicit in the system I don't agree with and doesn't feel aligned with what I believe in. Yeah. And then the black staff who were more like, this is a day job. And at least I'm not you. Right. But I did have allies on the unit.

There were three people around my age, three girls on the unit who were around my age. So we had nothing in common, but we stuck together. So I had a friend. Her name was A, or I'll call her A. Super sweet, super cheery, bubbly. What I understood from talking to her, you know, she'd been in the system for pretty much her whole life, kind of got caught up in. psych words based on like violence like she she was in there for homicidal ideation which was crazy to me or because she was so charming and sweet and positive um i guess that's naive but

i was it was a great contrast um and understanding her was like eye opening in a sense it was she was also neurodivergent and she had like trouble with mood regulation and And at one point, I was like on the phone and I would do like long phone calls with my, well, my ex. She was sitting on the couch and I guess something upset her, something triggered her. And she started having a panic attack. And it was like I've had panic attacks before, but it was pretty severe. And I obviously cared about her. And I was like, we're at a hospital.

I hope someone can help her. And they kind of kind of tackled. her like kind of two people were on her and she was screaming and like rocking back and forth. And I heard someone come out of the nurse's station and go, what's her name? What room is she in? Which was even more terrifying. Because like I said, there's not many people on this unit. There's not really many rooms. And so I said her name and I was like, that's her room. And someone turned back and goes, oh, baby, they know. And I was like, well, if they knew, they wouldn't have asked. So I was just like, that was just another instance where I was like, okay, physical safety is like so gray here.

Because I don't think that's how that should have been handled physically. And what made it worse was that I started having a panic attack watching that. And I'm on the phone, like sobbing, can't breathe. My ex is trying to like talk me down and be like, let's do some deep breathing, one, two, three. And a nurse came up to me. and she handed me a paper towel. And she said, you need to stop crying. You need to calm yourself down.

Or they're going to hold you here longer. You don't belong here. So like don't make it look like it. Which didn't help. Right. It's not like the greatest thing to hear in that situation. Well, also it doesn't matter. I think too, it doesn't matter if you belong somewhere or not.

If you're in an environment where you don't feel safe, I think that would make anybody panic. You know what I mean? So 100%. I only bring it up because it was, I've been going around adamantly critiquing and being kind of kind of a bitch to the staff. Like they knew. I think they'd gotten very comfortable going about how they were going about and like

taking advantage neglecting and abusing people who weren't cognizant of like how it was happening. I was going to say it's almost like they probably weren't used to someone like you being there with like such sound. mind that was like that could pick up on these things to be like this is a problem like this is wrong and it needs to be stopped you know and yeah but I don't mean to say it like I'm just like so not crazy like I didn't belong there like I just say it because I was like they were so you are aware of it which is yeah you know that's and that's okay and it's good I think the thing is too is it's it's good

that you were aware of it because if it wasn't you then who would it be you know what I mean like I feel like stuff like that needs to be brought to light and stopped and because there's the people in there are they're human. You know what I mean? And everybody deserves to be treated with respect no matter what state of mind they're in. Right. You know, I mean, like you said, they're there to get help and to feel safe. You know, everybody, it's not prison. It shouldn't be like prison. It shouldn't be like prison. Yeah. And I also do want to emphasize, I don't feel other. I don't feel like I'm not like them. Like we were all in the same psych, you know, we were all getting treated for mental health. Yeah. And it's like, I think that's the. I think that's the. I don't feel like, I don't feel like,

the baseline. So like I felt like the differentiation kind of sets something. Like they were they were there subtext there. Well too correct me if I'm wrong but when you go into the psych word you can't like pick and choose right. So it's like people that might be dealing with all different types of things. They're all going to be in the same unit. Right. Okay. 100%. So on the unit there was another woman and calling her S had been on the unit the longest to the point that I once had her heard her call at home. She had a single. The easiest way to explain it is that, like, S was, like, the big bad of the unit, or at least perceived that way.

Like, she would just walk in... Well, I mean, there's not much else to do about walking circles. But, like, walk in circles and, like, often, like, talk to herself. And when there were physical altercation, she was usually involved. To the point, you know, people were obviously cruel to her. But, like, she didn't really notice. Like, there was just... There wasn't much cognizance.

She was just here and this was home. And people really villainized her, demonized her. And like I had my instances where it like, it sounds bad. Like she'd come up to me and say whatever she'd say. But like eventually, actually very quickly, I realize she's never like talking to you. Yeah. She's never attacking you. Like not to take it personally.

No, like she's, she doesn't know. Right. Like she would she's just honestly like I always felt like she was just saying things that were said to her, you know, and like making connections. And like I just didn't say anything and she would leave me alone. And eventually like it started to anger me the way that people didn't realize that. Yeah. Like, people were so scared of her. Like, people were so like, oh, like, I don't, it was so weird because I was like, she,

she doesn't really know what's going on, right? And her and A, like, would get in, they were the ones that had the most physical altercations. They fought a lot. And A, he beat her ass. And A was like 19 and, like, 5.3. Like, it was, everyone was acted so shocked. Like, how did A must be so strong. But it was like, it's not, you know, it was never, we need to use critical thought.

Like, it was not, whatever. I guess we never really had a conversation. But I honestly felt really like aligned and seen with her by, because like she was being the common rooms and like talking to herself and you pick up on like things she was saying. And, you know, I kind of got like her backstory from that. And I was like, and she was also like a black woman and she was queer. I'm queer. And I felt paralleled and like sad to see how demonized she was because she, I think I heard legally

you can only get the needle, like be sedated like every nine hours. And they really put that to work on her. Like she was the exclusive resident of the seclusion room, which is something you see in horror movies and nightmares, just strapped down room. Also something I'd never really seen on other units, like to that degree. There were private rooms, you know, for people that are going through whatever, but like the straps. Yeah, not to say like I'm sure I don't know. There was no effort ever, ever to treat us.

It was managing us. This was holding self. This was, well, there's nowhere else to put her. And so we sedate her as much as we can and we tie her up as much as we can. And when we can't, we all deal with it and ignore her. I guess I'm going back. But after I'd reported that I got some. sexually harassed. And I took the pill. I woke up. I was like, I want to speak to somebody higher.

I want to talk to somebody higher. This doctor comes down. And I go off. I'm like, the chairs haven't been clean. You know, this is da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And the students are still there at this point, watching from the door. She just stands there, coldly looks at me and just goes, we're going to put you on a one-to-one. And what exactly does that mean? It means, you're going to there's going to be eyes on you 24-7 and your door is going to stay open. Okay. Which I was upset about one because it kind of punished my roommate and she didn't do anything. And two, I feel like I was being punished for getting sexually harassed.

I was like, why can't he be put on a one-to-one? Oh, because you didn't identify him. Right. And I just kept saying whatever and she was just like, you're being put on a one-to-one. Your door will stay able and da-da-da-da. Like just didn't care. I didn't want to hear it. And the students were watching this.

and she turns around to go. And she goes to the students and says, you guys sure you want to be doctors? And I just think it was as horrible as the thing as that to say, I think it really does solidify the fact that they know this is unacceptable. And she was trying to pander to the students to be like, oh, you know, day in the life of a doctor. Right.

Like, no, no, good doctors. Well, also, besides that, it's extremely unprofessional. Yeah, right? that. Like, it doesn't even matter. Like, even if that's a thought that you have, you don't say that in front of... Like, right in front of me, in front of the students, like, in my doorway. I was like, wow.

Okay. But also that, unfortunately, seeing somebody that is higher up like that in order, say something like that to younger students that are most looking up to that position, that might make them feel like, oh, like, that's okay for us to say. Or, you know what I mean? That's okay for us to treat someone like that. Right. So, unfortunately, it's, like, trickles down.

It trickles down. Yeah. And now a word from our sponsor. Our sponsor for today's episode is Athletic Greens. I personally love AG1 for so many reasons. And the list goes on and on. First off, if I ever wake up and I'm just feeling really tired, foggy and just not mentally clear, AG1 is the first thing that I start my day with.

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along with five free travel packs with your first purchase. Go to athletic greens.com slash insane. That is athletic greens.com slash insane. Check it out. The one-to-one was a whole situation in itself, though. Like, it was ridiculous. And it goes back to my whole thing about I don't think there's any real protocols here everyone's just like saying whatever um I woke up at like 5 a.m because and they would switch the

one-to-ones out like every three hours or so um I woke up at 5 am because my one-to-one was playing bubble pop on her phone outside our door and I was like are you playing bubble pop she was like no and I was like are you even then I start to look into are you even allowed to have phones because one thing I was like I was considering like legal action against the hospital at this point and I don't really I've tried I don't really have a case like especially I'll get into how commonplace this is, but I was like, what are the protocols? Like, are there rules being broken here? Right.

And all that the first doctor had said was like, door stays open 24-7, right? So I'm like, is our phones even allowed? And the next day, different one-to-one. He, with his entire chest, like at least the last one-to-one, like, you know, she was like, no, I'm not, like, playing bubble pop at 5 a.m. Outside your door. He started watching. soccer on his phone, like not trying to hide it. People, other staff members walked by and, like, said hi.

Like, watch. No one cared. And with no headphones, my roommate's trying to sleep fully just watching soccer. And that's when I just like kind of got really pissed off. Because I was like, this is obnoxious and disrespectful to like my roommate. And also like, this is a job. I was just saying you're at work. You're at work.

Everyone's fine with this. So I was like, no. I know the two rules, right? 24 seven, all la. And door stays open. Right. So I waited for them to switch, to switch one to once. And, you know, they're chopping it up. They're like, oh my God, hi. They don't, obviously, eyes aren't on me. Eyes were very rarely on me. 24-7 is laughable. But he gets up and I run

into my bathroom, which has no door, by the way. Like, psych-word bathrooms are not, like, it's a psych-word. The architecture is aware of that. It's not easy to hide in the bathroom. But there was, probably one foot, no, me 10 inches of like paneling along the line of the toilet, right? And I squeezed in and I stood there. And at this point I developed a tremor because I wasn't sleeping and I was constantly scared. So I'm like shaking by this wall. Obviously this is ridiculous. I'm like, this isn't going to work.

But it did work because he lost me. And there's no way, like literally there's no way to get out of my room without someone seeing you. you're just back on the unit. Everyone would see you. So everyone's like, where did she go? Right. Where did she go? It took four M.A.'s, nurses, staff, walked through the room several times.

No one thought to walk into the bathroom because who would want to? They're absolutely disgusting. But like, just, I was gone for four minutes. Like, just shaking behind a wall because no one thought to step one foot into the bathroom. Eventually, the head nurse. And me and him were like adversaries. I kind of see him as like my Mr. Mosby at this point. Like it's almost funny.

But he comes in and he sees me and I just like, I'm like, you know, it was, that was kind of like my grasp at power at this point. Because I was like, I feel so. My autonomy, my autonomy feels non-existent. And I was like, if I can get the paperwork for the protocol, this will, whatever, whatever. And, you know, nothing came of it. But it did, it was funny. And I just think it does go to show like a tangible example of them not.

caring. Yeah, and it's like very unaware. Yeah, and they're being repercussions of it. But also, like, where could I have gone? Like, it was kind of ridiculous. It got to the point still on the one-to-one, where I realized no one knew why I was on the one-to-one. And aside from the guy with the sheets, there had been another guy who, you know, he would wait outside my door and, like, try to bring me gifts and stuff, like Chipotle, like, Fantasota. And, you know, he was chill. He kind of had like a like a nice boy crush on me, but he was like double my age. And I was like, and I'm also gay, so I was like, oh, no. But I did want him to, like, stop pacing outside my room because my roommate didn't

like it, obviously. And, but also they didn't have made no effort to, like, make note of this, identify either of these. So they had no idea. So it'd be points where my one-to-one was, like, standing outside my door, like, twiddling her thumbs and he would still be, like, pacing outside my room. Or, like, my one-to-one would, like, go to the bathroom, which I don't even know what the protocol is supposed to be for that. And he would like, that would be when he would approach me.

And like, it was like, why are you even here? Like, this is just, we're just saving face. Like, because when you don't have the context for the, for the one to one, what are we looking for? Well, I feel like it's, it's pretty obvious that any red flag that would, that you felt uncomfortable with, they either just didn't see or they didn't care. And it's like even if you would have brought it up, would it have made a difference? Probably not. You know, like I just, I think that it seems like all of the patients were extremely unheard, which I think is really unfair because, like I said before, everybody deserves to feel safe, you know, and everybody's going through their own thing in there, you know what I mean? But I feel like if somebody brings something up of feeling

uncomfortable, the staff should listen, but also the staff should be aware themselves. Yeah. It came to the point where like, okay, they don't care about our physical safety. You know, they don't care about protocols. But like, and I mean, even with the paper towel incident when I was crying, like, they don't really care about therapy. But there was a point where, you know, as was having a moment, which triggered A, because they beefed. And A, like, came in and was like, I'm seeing red and I don't know what to do. Can you help me? And like, all the staff are dealing with the S incident. It's just us in the room. I'm 20 and I just like I talked her through some like one, two, three breathing exercises and she was like, thank you. You just saved my life. Like it was,

but it was terrifying because it was like, this is a hospital. Like how come there's no one? Like why is it that another patient is having to help? Having to talk someone down. And like, why is there no staff in this room with us? Like, also like what happened to the one to one? Just saying. But like it's like it was just situations like that were constant where it was just like the bandwidth was being stretched in terms of like how much I could personally withstand and also like genuinely feeling scared and caring about people around me getting hurt because it was just like no one cared enough to do anything in any capacity, you know, other than like print pictures of mandala's, you know. But so yeah, by Monday, things were back in swing. The staff was back. The doctors were back. So it's not to interrupt you, but it's different staffing during the week and then the weekends.

Yeah, the weekend is just pretty much anyone who will show up. Okay. That's how you were saying, like, things just aren't taken as seriously because you think that there's a big difference in like the type of staff? No, it's never taken seriously. But especially on the weekend because like they're just being paid to essentially babysit. Got it. Whereas like the doctors and the psychiatrists have to like, not and pretend, but like also don't do anything.

Got it. But by day seven, I guess word had kind of gotten around that, like, I was taking notes. And I heard like some nurses whispering like, oh, that's her, whatever. Or like, when I woke up, my meds were like promptly like given to me because there'd been issues with that. And I was like unhappy. And like, I guess I journal about this too. Like I guess S came up to me, said some stuff, whatever. Like, it really didn't bother me.

Like I did I was not threatened or upset by her like I felt I understood what was going on and um the head nurse Mr. Mosby he was like he brought me into a private room and he was like I'm so sorry you know she does that to literally everyone I'm so sorry about the harassment and I was like it was just so clear he didn't understand what I was upset about because I was like first of all I was. I've been here for a week. Like, I understand this has happened to me before. And the fact that you're pulling me, pulling me specifically out now is pathetic. Like, you're clearly trying to perform something or, like, act like you're good at your job right now.

And also completely misunderstanding, like, my problem is with this institution and the way that you guys honestly treat her. And the fact that, like, you're trying to flip it as if I'm like, oh, I just, people here. Like, that has never been the situation. So it only made me more upset. And I was like, why? So did you explain to him? Like what? Yes.

Okay. Yes, I did. And what was his response to that? He just left. Like, he didn't, he wasn't. Like, he didn't really acknowledge it. He just nodded. Like, he was trying to be agreeable at this point because, I don't know.

Like, maybe, because I did have a couple, like, schemes. I had the one-to-one scheme. And then they also had it, I was counting the hours and being a little, willfully avoidant about having my bandages changed. But like, how can I live on a psych ward? Like, they could have just come to my room. But like they didn't. I was trying to get to a point where they hadn't been changed for long enough that it could be malpractice essentially.

Okay. Which went like 60 hours. But. And I guess maybe, I don't know if they knew, like caught on whatever, but or just like knew I was taking notes. They didn't want to whatever, whatever. But that night. So this is like my last 30 hours.

Things got very real in the last 30 hours. So I guess I guess S&A kind of came to a head Like I can't even express like I don't think they really Disliked anything about each other I think they both just felt threatened But S had turned like a comb

Into like a shiv And was like told me while we were like sitting watching The office on free form And was like if she like comes to me again I'm gonna slitter throw And I was like No don't do that that I told the one to one because I was like okay I don't think that's going to happen but like the fact there's a weapon and intent like it's just avoid it did you see the web like yeah okay yeah and I mean the staff saw it too like she was using it to comb hair but also it was a shiv um and I told my one to one and she was like oh okay and I was like why wouldn't they take it away right right and like this wasn't even the first note of contraband like someone had stuck nail clippers in like it was they didn't yeah so my one to one didn't do anything they switched and then and then

then I was like, maybe she's going to tell the next person. And then I saw A go up to like her favorite medical nurse and just be like, and tell her the same thing. Tell her exactly the same thing. I hate her. I'm going to slid her throat with this chiv that I made. They never took a doctor that? Yeah.

And they didn't do anything. They didn't do anything. No, she started brushing people. She was giving someone Bantu knots. Like it was really like. Yeah. Yeah. The next day was my last day.

I woke up really early. but I was leaving at 12, so I woke up at 7. And I saw, I kind of saw, like, how this whole thing played out. I was so, like, genuinely cinematic. Like, S was in a good mood. S was giving people high fives, like, sitting on the ground, like, just chopping it up, talking and, like, like, to herself. But, you know, like, vibrantly, like, happy.

It was chill. We even, I think we even got some, like, outside time that day, which means, like, standing on the concrete, little garden in the circle, which was great, because, like, hadn't felt sun. In like a week, a medical assistant was watching us. All I know is I woke up at seven and it was chill for like an hour, two hours. And I went to, I think we had quote music therapy, which is just like, here, you get to play one song. Which was fun.

And I got back from that, got back, like I walked across the room. I just know a fight broke out. Between S and A. No, between S and the medical assistant. Got it. And it was unlike anything I've ever seen, utter chaos. Because the medical assistant was fighting back. Like it wasn't like defense.

It didn't give self-defense to me. And it also didn't give like trying to talk this like psychore patient down. Like she was angry. Like they were fighting. And like the medical assistant had to be pulled off of her like by under her arms with like screaming and kicking. There's like blood on her face. Like they really got into like a scrap. Everyone came out of the rooms.

people were coming off from like different units to like remedy the situation. They were like, everybody go to your rooms. It was so clear they didn't know how to handle this, which is crazy because stuff like this happens actually every day. But like this one was a big one because the medical system was involved in like blood and like, you know, had to be pulled off. It was insane. And also like everyone, they're like, go to your rooms. I literally stood there because I was like, what do you mean go to my room? Like you guys.

They didn't have control of anything anyway. Exactly. The head nurse pulls me. And I'm not supposed to leave for the hour. He pulls me. He's like, you know, sign your paperwork. We're getting, like, in a rush, in a panic. Because I guess he's like, he doesn't want me to see this.

But I'm like, come on. You know, I've been here. And he gets me out. And I'm out in the middle of that. I think as I was, the last thing I saw was like, they were trying to lure us across the room to sedate her, like while she was walking. It was like literally insanity. everyone's just standing there like the nursing assistant like I think she's still trying to be talked down in the back room it was absolutely insane people like yeah and I get through those double doors I see son for the first time there's my mom my mom had also visited me like shout out to my mom she visited me every day I didn't eat any of the meals that that hospital gave me she brought me meals every day and telling your mom what was going on oh she knew everything yeah like my the only way I got through this was like my mom and like my ex at the time

But like that kind of blew up. Right. And like, yeah, she knew that she was with me with the legal action. Like she was with me with the bandage thing with the one-to-one. Like, that was my rock in terms of physical safety. And we were both just like, you need to get out of there. So you were there for a total of 70s? Yeah.

Okay. And was that the last time that you were in? Yes. Okay. Yes, it was. Yeah, I got out. So that stay obviously didn't, like I'm sure it didn't really help you mentally. No, did not.

Definitely made it worse. Yeah, it was just like an experience. I feel like for you that you saw, unfortunately, how negligent places like that can be. Yeah, for sure. And like, kind of what happened after is that I, so I got out and I was like, angry. I was like, this needs to change. I, and I kind of, I really did neglect, like, because I had already gone in there with stuff. So I kind of neglected my own.

Like, this became my life. Like I started this petition. I was like posting, you know. doing research reporting would hold to every mental health justice department in New York City. And it was kind of going nowhere and it was driving me crazy. And it was so hard. And I also needed to find a different place to get treatment, which was really difficult for some reason. I had to like, I ended up going all the way to, I went to Arizona to like this residential treatment center for like a month, which was nice.

You know, it's like a boot. But it's not accessible. It's like a bougie place. I got a scholarship to go. And I only honestly went because my therapist gave me an ultimatum because she was like, if you don't like get treatment, I can't see you anymore. So I did that. Also, do you want to mention, I did in my research phase in my petition, find out a lot

of terrible stuff about Woodhole. I think four people have died there, not even in the psych unit in the past. That's where you were. Huh? That's the mental hospital that you were in? Woodhole, yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. four people have died at Woodhole Hospital in like the past four years. Not even in the psych unit. Just like the whole hospital. It's a systemic thing. It's a public hospital. But I found the craziest thing in my research, which was an article called Seven

and a Half Days by Kevin Feldman, journalistic piece written in 1998. He willingly got himself admitted to Woodhole to write a piece, make a statement about how mental health is treated and like low-income neighbors. hoods. Yeah. And his experience 20 plus years ago was glaringly similar to mine. I'd say the only difference is that we didn't get smoke breaks. And they did.

So basically this has been a problem for... This has been a problem. And as much as I heard, you know, other people reach out after the petition and be like, I went to this one in Queens. I went to this one in the East Village. And similar terrible stuff happened to me. I was like, this is, this hospital has been on this for 20 years. and it's terrifying how nothing has changed.

They have a lot of blood on their hands and just the whole hospital, like all the departments. Yeah, and I think the issue too is not only obviously what's happening there and the negligence there, but the fact that you went there to get help too and you weren't even able to receive that. You know, like your main focus, if anything, was just getting out of there safe, which is unfortunate because, you know, it's just that was a waste of time for you. And on top of it, you experienced, you know, you were an environment where you didn't feel safety.

And that, you know, it's just, it's really unfortunate that there are places like that. And the thing is, too, is like that's not the only one. You know what I mean? Like, there's so many places like that. And that's why I think it is so important for you to share your story and talk about it because I'm sure there's other people that have been, you know, in mental hospitals that feel like, well, I was going to say, too, I feel like it's one of those things that people might just think, well, this is just how it is. you know what I mean, but it shouldn't be that way.

Because like we said earlier, it isn't a prison. You know what I mean? It's supposed to be a place that no matter what state of mind you're in, you deserve to get the help that you want to get and that you're seeking to get. Exactly. And I also would like want to add on to that, but this isn't just how it is. Right. Like I've been to other units in demographically different areas,

and it is nothing remotely similar to this in terms of cleanliness, quality of care, attentiveness, food. Like, it's just, like, it's ridiculous. And, like, for a city is highly populated, highly funded as New York City. And now, like, with Eric Adams, like, Eric Adams is now trying to do, like, a thing where police can, like, take people that are perceived to be mentally ill and just, like, put them in the psych wards. And I'm like, well, maybe we should start with the hospitals then.

Like, if we want, you know, like, there's no recognition of, or, I guess a discussion about how racialized and, like, classist it is. Because it's just like, it's not like this everywhere. And it's especially shouldn't be like this in New York, you know, like such a highly diverse city. Right. And I really, really want to touch on, like, the repercussions of this being my life, I guess, of this having happened to me. Because it's like, yeah, this is a bad hospital, you know, negligence is sad. negligence boo but like what really darkened this experience and I think is most palpable and that I want to

push to like as many people as possible is that like what was worst about this was like how the people in my life treated me afterwards I obviously was a shell of myself um I didn't like trust mental health institutions I didn't trust I couldn't I didn't feel safe anywhere um and like my only safe havens were like my mom and like my ex who had really been there for me. And we were exes at the time. We weren't together. But like they'd really been there for me throughout this. They visited me.

You know, they called me when I like it was real. But it got to a point where like I guess I just trusted them more than I trusted myself. And it was really rough. They became the no-all be-all to my mental health. And straight up told me they thought I had BPD. to really stigmatized disorder. Our dynamic got really toxic and upsetting. And, you know, I was clearly very much in a bad place and still not treated and not better.

I didn't have, you know, the same cognizance I once had. And I think they saw that and thought that they, you know, could save me and then couldn't. And then I had no one, right? So I'd just gone through this and my ex was like, you're too sick. I don't want you. And call your friends. Did you have a good friend group at this point? At this point, I think they all trusted them more than they trusted me.

Okay. Especially with the idea that I had BPD. So you didn't really have a good salad support for you? I didn't have a support system. And they all like went to them for information about me. And it got to a point where I had no idea what was going on. No one was talking to me. This podcast is my first time like telling the story in full.

Like no one really asked. Like there wasn't support at all from those people I thought I could trust. And eventually like it all blew up and a rumor got around that I was like, like my ex basically told people I was a drug addict. And it was believable because of mental health stigma. I'd just been in the psych ward. I just went to residential. And was this after you went to Arizona?

After. Okay. Yeah. Well, they sent a long text to my mom being like, drug addict and my mom came to pick me up. I was like, mom, how could you believe them over me? And they were like, she was like, I don't. I think that you can't trust any of these people and you need to get out of here. And that was kind of the turning point in my recovery.

I had to go home. Back to New Jersey. Yeah. Moved out of my apartment in silence because the roomies, you know, didn't know what to say. And like I bring it up because. I feel like not everyone listening is like a doctor in the mental health field, but like a lot of people have friends who have mental health issues. And it's hard and I've been on the other side of it. But I guess I just want to like advocate for compassion and.

Absolutely. And patience because on the drive home after the whole drug addict situation, which was crazy. Because I had just gone back from residential. Like I'd been screened. And like there was no evidence or. at all for a substance abuse issue. But it was just stigma. On the drive back, I, like, sent everyone a text,

and I was like, guys, I don't know what's going on. Like, you know, like, please don't talk to them about what's going on with me over me, like, da-da-da. And I, like, never heard from any of those people again. Like, that was it. Well, I think, too, like, it's difficult because if you feel like you don't have a good support system, like, I feel like that has to come from somewhere.

And I know that you had your mom, but at that age, when you are in your 20s, like you should be able to lean on friends and you should, you know, and friends should be there for that. And I agree with you that there is a huge stigma around mental health and not enough people care and not. Like if I feel like a lot of people, the way that people's brains work is if it's not happening to them, why deal with it themselves? You know what I mean? Like it's easier for people to judge. It's easier for people to like just throw their hands in the air and be like, oh, I can't deal with that or with their issues. But what I think a lot of people don't realize and

I think too, like what you are kind of saying is what you want to emphasize on is the fact that like if you have friends that are going through something, the importance of being there for them, you know, like even if even if you can't directly relate, but just listening and making someone feel heard and like they have a support system can make the biggest difference. Because I feel like if you had that, you would feel a lot better. Everyone's going through their own mental health journey. And like obviously the spectrum of that can vary a lot. It could be something more like, you know, mild or it could be something more like, you know,

or it could be something more severe. But no matter where you lie on that spectrum, it's like everyone deserves a support system and everyone deserves to be heard. And it's like it doesn't matter what you're going through. Like the people in your lives should really be there and understand that. And if they're not, then they are sorry pieces of shit.

You know what I mean? Like, but you know what I'm saying? Like it's like if people, if you see somebody's going through something and your response is to diagnose them with something or assume that they were on drugs or whatever else, that says more about them than it does about you. You know what I mean?

And it's really unfortunate that that would be people are evil. You know what I mean? And that's people's response when they don't know how to deal with something. And they just want to judge and assume. And it makes them feel better because they have issues too. So that's all I have to say about that. But you know what I mean? Like I just feel like that's kind of like, that's maybe more of a blunt way of saying it.

But I just feel like, you know, it's really important for people to be there for others. even if like you're not a direct friend, but like if you know somebody that's going through something just to let them know like, hey, look, I'm here for you. I might not get what you're going through, but like I'm here if you need it, you know, kind of thing. That's what I think. But not enough people are like that, unfortunately. Unfortunately.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think another issue is that they really like wanted to front that they were. Like I guess no one honestly ever said like, we're here for you. Call me if you need to talk. Yeah. But like they, it was implied. Like we knew each other well.

We known each other for years. And like I. you know, they would text me like, hope you're well, but it was never like, it really never was that do you want to talk? Like, they like knew what had happened and knew, or they knew what had happened through the words of my ex. And like, no one ever brought it up to me and asked how I felt about it. I just had to kind of struggle by alone and like put on a face. And it was hardest because it felt like an extension of the hospital in a lot of ways. I was like, I felt so gaslight and crazy in the hospital for being the only one who really was like calling out what was going on there.

And noticing what was happening. And then I left and I was like, why is everyone being so weird to me? Like it made me feel gaslight and crazy again because I was like, why is everyone saying like, we love you? Like let's do something. And like when I need something, when I cry, like when I'm like even the littlest bit upset, it's like it's untouchable. It's gross.

It's we can't get into it. We have, you know? And I was like, I lived with these people. People are like that too. Like I've noticed just in life in general. It's like people. Whenever you release emotion or show emotion, it's like if people aren't capable of like feeling that, having compassion. Compassion.

Like that's like a big word. Like if people aren't capable of that, they're just going to like cut off. Like because it's easier for people to do, you know, which it sucks. But I feel like that's what a lot of people do. I really even wish like because I do, I guess there's nuance and I respect the ideas around like sometimes you can't carry something for someone else. Okay. And I don't think I was asking anyone to carry anything for me whatsoever. but like in general that I think there's nuance in terms of how much one can take on.

But I think that I wish someone would have said that to me. I don't think that was the case for any of them. I think they're just kind of apathetic and non-confrontational. But like I wish I could have sent that text and had someone say, honestly, like, we can't be there for you right now. Or like, you know, I'm going through something or just even anything. But they never said anything to me. Like I never, like there was never closure. it was just like, we know what you went through.

You know, we never talked to you about it. But like, it was just like this is just and then I was gone. And then I was gone. So you don't talk to any of these people anymore. No. Okay. Well, that's good. Yeah.

Better off not in your life anyway. 100%. And I think, you know, too, back to the mental hospital experience that you had, like I said, obviously as shitty and unfortunate as it was, it's good that you're coming on here and talking about it because it is something that's very real and that happens. There's always good. there's always bad with things. You know what I mean? And it's, it's interesting to that you experience, like you had good experiences in good hospitals. And it's, the thing is too,

maybe if you didn't have that and your first experience was the one in New York it was, right? That was the bad one. Like, you might not, you might think that that was normal. So it's like, it's important, I think that you had both experiences to be like, this is not normal. And I have seen what, like how people should be treated. And, you know, because a lot, like I said, a lot of people might not realize that. They might just kind of think like, oh, well, I guess this is what happens when you go to a psych ward or when you go into a mental hospital, but it shouldn't be that way. You know, nobody should be abused in whatever way that might be, you know. Exactly. And I think, too, some people might not think that having your environment be dirty or having your concerns be like,

just neglected and not listen to, that still is a form of abuse because, you know, you're in there, basically relying on the staff and the doctors to take care of you. You know, and if they're just not, then that's abuse. And it's screwed up. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story. And I'm sure that there will be a lot of people that can either relate to it or, like I said, maybe they've experienced it, you know, and they didn't know any different. So I think it's amazing and great job.

You did great. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you so much for having me. Of course.