We're All Insane - Addicted to Heroin

Episode Date: May 8, 2023

Get $10 off at Nutrafol.com when you use promo code Insane! CW: This episode contains discussions of drug use, addiction, and miscarriage. Heroin is a drug derived from opium poppy plants that can quickly lead to addiction. Heroin use can cause an overdose, increase the risk of contracting infectious diseases, and lead to a range of health problems, including mental health problems. Prescription opioids, like OxyContin and Vicodin, can also be addictive. They can cause physical dependence and increased tolerance, leading to misuse and a higher risk of addiction. Some people turn to heroin when they can no longer get prescription opioids or need a stronger high. To reduce the risk of addiction, it's important to take prescription opioids as directed by a healthcare professional and to never share them with others. If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction to heroin or prescription opioids, seek help from a healthcare professional or addiction treatment center. Resources: Search for Oxford House vacancies in your area:oxfordhouse.org Find a Suboxone doctor: https://www.samhsa.gov/medication-assisted-treatment/find-treatment/treatment-practitioner-locator Hope House Treatment Centers: hopehousemd.org Hope House is currently asking for donations of self care items (masks, razors, deodorant, shampoo, conditioner, etc.) Donations can be brought to 26 Marbury Drive Crownsville, MD 21032 Anne Arundel County Safe Stations. Go into any fire station in Anne Arundel County MD, ask to use Safe Station, and they will take you in no questions asked and usually place you into treatment within 24 hours: https://www.aacounty.org/departments/sao/rehab-programs/safe-stations/index.html Baltimore Needle Exchange Program and Schedule: https://health.baltimorecity.gov/hiv-std-services/community-risk-reduction Where to get Narcan and Fentanyl test strips in Maryland: https://health.maryland.gov/pha/NALOXONE/Pages/Home.aspx If you have a unique story you'd like to share on the podcast, fill out this form: https://forms.gle/ZiHgdoK4PLRAddiB9 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, it's me DeVora. I just dropped an all new bonus episode inside my new subscription channel, We're All Insane Plus. This week's bonus episode is called My Brain was slipping into my spine. Listen now by subscribing to We're All Insane Plus inside your Spotify or Apple Podcasts app or go to we're all insane.com. Hey guys and welcome back. I would like to thank Nutraful for sponsoring today's episode. Nutraful is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand and is physician formulated with 100% drug-free ingredients. Go to Nutraful.com and enter the promo code insane to save $10 off your first month's subscription plus free shipping on every order. Enjoy today's episode. My name is Emily and I'm in recovery from addiction. We'll just start from the beginning. I was born and

raised in Annapolis. It's about 30 minutes outside Baltimore. I had a relatively normal childhood. My parents divorced when I was 13. I still haven't really made that distinction on whether or not it affected me or not, but I feel like it's important to put in there. But that also raises another important point is that addiction does not discriminate. You know, class, race, anything, you know, for, I shouldn't have been an addict. Someone on the outside looking into my life, you know, white upper, upper middle class kid should be okay. I shouldn't be an addict, but I am. And that's, you know, it is what it is. I tried marijuana alcohol for the first time at 13. I feel like that's pretty normal. Everyone starts to experiment around

that age. And I really never had any issues with it. I've heard a lot of stories where people, oh, I had my first drink at 13 and it was just like something clicked. Nothing really clicked. So at this point in your life, were you living with, is it like joint custody? Like, were you living with your mom or your dad? I, you know, I think I was in middle school. So it was like a week with my dad, a week with my mom. And everything in life you said was like fine. Yeah, relatively normal. Around that point, my mom moved to Southern Maryland. Okay. So, So I was starting to do every other weekend with her at that time too. And that it hurt a little bit because I had such a great relationship with my mom.

So and again, I haven't really pinpointed if that affected. I feel like in life, like everything has an effect. Like even if it's not something, like even if that isn't the main cause or if it is, who knows. But like every little thing I feel like that happens has some sort of effect. It's like butterfly effect. Literally. Yeah. It's like, well, that did something and that did something.

So, all right, keep going. Okay. And then, so I was 17. I was going into my senior year of high school. I got my tonsless taken out. Surgery, what I thought was successful. And I was sent home with like a five-day prescription of rocks a set, liquid percocet, to get you over that initial hump of like really bad pain.

About a week post-op started having major complications. Like hemorrhaging. I remember I bent down to get a towel and just blood. And it was awful. And I, you know, probably every four to five days for the next six weeks, it would be, okay, everything's calmed down. And then I would start up again. So I was in and out of the hospital probably for a couple months, just trying to figure out, like, what the hell's going on. So what should have been, you know, five days of an opioid prescription.

to get you over that initial hump turned into, you know, round the clock every four hours of liquid perk is set into a 17-year-old for six weeks straight. So, you know, I had to get it fixed with a second surgery. And again, thank God that they fixed it. But that was, you know, they said, okay, you're done, you're good. So you don't need your pain medication anymore. And that was when I first experienced withdrawals. Right.

Yeah, I didn't know it at the time. I just thought this sucks. Did they just like take you off of it cold turkey? Yeah. That's like surprising to me that they didn't think that there would be any type of concern there since you were on it for so long. You know, I didn't either. Yeah. No one did.

My parents just, yeah, you're good. And that's actually really common. Even today, because this was what, 10 years ago. God, 10 years ago now, it's still the same. And it's a lot of people have issues with them. that they're on a relatively regular dose. And then your doctor's like, no, I think you're good. And that's what leads a lot of people into addiction.

Right. So I experienced those withdrawals. It was awful. Couldn't sleep, sweating, hot and cold, can't get comfortable. I didn't know it at the time. And Percocet's awesome. So, you know, I remember I was like, I feel great. I have no pain.

I feel all warm and fuzzy. I'm getting the best sleep, the best naps of my life. So I, you know, I feel like that might have planted a seed for later on in life. But, you know, I got through my withdrawals, whatever, I finished my senior year of high school, relatively uneventful. And I started college. I went to University of Kentucky. And I got to college.

And I was definitely got into drinking. I wasn't drinking every day, but whenever I would, it was binge drinking. Yeah. And I don't know. I've never been afraid of drugs. Like, I've never been someone that's been like, oh, no, I can't. I don't know why. I don't know if it's just the way I am.

I don't know if maybe I'm an addict. And that's why I've never been scared of drugs. Sorry, I just bumped the mic. Okay. Well, I think, too, like what I was going to say is sometimes I feel like it's based on experience, Because for myself, like, I was never scared of alcohol. Like, I loved it. I think it's fun.

I still, even though I know it's not good for you, it's still a great time. But like with the drug aspect, I remember when I was, my first drug I tried was weed and I had a horrible experience with it. And it was so scary. And I was like, okay, after this, like, I'm scared to try anything harder. Right. Because my experience with weed was so bad and scary that you, so I feel like, but you said you were doing, you had done marijuana up right, when you're like 13, whatever.

So it's like, I feel like maybe because that didn't have any type of like negative effect. You're like, okay, like, you know what I mean? Like sometimes if you don't have like too bad of an experience or anything scary happen, you're like, I'll try the next thing. Exactly. And that's what it was. It was like, you know, I hate the marijuana as a gateway drug theory. I hate that.

But that's, you know, I think whether or not I had smoked weed at 13 or not probably had no effect on me being an addict later in life. But that was kind of the progression. It was like, okay, well, weed was fun. Let me try a little bit of alcohol. Alcohol's fun. Okay. Well, too, because everything's like a stepping stone.

Yeah. Like I said, nothing bad happens. Yeah. You're not going to be scared or stop until something bad does happen in a way. And that's the worst thing that can happen. Yeah. Nothing. Right.

When you try something and nothing happens, I didn't get in trouble. You know, I didn't get caught. That's the worst thing that could happen because then it just, you know, allows you to keep going. Yeah. So I was in college. And I was trying harder stuff. I was doing Coke. I tried acid for the first time.

I did shrooms for the first time. And needless to say, I failed out of college that first semester. I wasn't going to classes. Like, I was just having too much fun. And my GPA was like one point something. So I came back home. I went to community college. And the plan was to go back to community college, get my GPA.

back up and then go back. And, you know, I think in the back of my mind, I knew that's maybe not what I wanted to do. But at this point in my life, I was so scared of disappointing my parents and I felt like there was so much pressure on me, especially after the, can I cuss? Yes. Okay. Anything. Like, especially after this major fuck up of failing out of college, I was so scared of

disappointing the people around me that I just went with it. This is the plan. We're going to go back. We're going to raise our GPA and we're going to get back to college. And I had that mindset. This is what we're doing, regardless if I wanted to or not, this is what we're doing. So I came home. I got a job. I was a bikini barista for a good chunk of my early adult life. And in theory, it was perfect. I would do my 6 a.m. to noon shift and then I would go to afternoon classes. And it was perfect and it was perfect for a little bit until I realized that all my co-workers were on pills, everyone, every single one of them. It was like this open secret that, you know, they're all doing pills, but no one's really talking about it. The boss knows, but she's just going to, you know,

let it slide, ignore it, ignore the problem. I met my boyfriend at that time who was also on pills, and it was just, you know, a perfect storm of this is what I walk into every day, or these people, that are doing pills. Yeah, and if that's what you're surrounded with. Yeah, and it just, it seems so normal. Right. And the first time I tried it, a few days earlier, I had loaned my coworker 30 bucks, and she came in to relieve me of the morning shift.

She said, oh, I got to pay you back. I don't have money, but I do have a pill. It's like, it's worth $30 on the street. Did she tell you what it was? I knew what it was. I think just from hearing them talk about it and seeing it, I knew what it was. And to go back, I've never been scared of trying drugs. But I also think if I hadn't had that experience with opioids as a 17-year-old, you know, I can't say for sure if that maybe influenced me to be like, yeah, I remember how awesome it was.

You know, either way, I took it and I was like, sure, whatever. And I tried it. And it was great. You know, I'm not going to come on here as an addict in recovery and say that, you know, drugs aren't fun. They're great. That's why people do them. And that kind of started.

I like to compartmentalize my life into eras. And I know that's kind of overused now. Like, oh, I'm in my pill era now. But that's just, I think of the car. I had, the people I was hanging out with the boyfriend I had at the time. And that kind of starts my first, like, era is the way that I think of it. At this time, I was making stupid money. I was, you know, making my little $5 an hour at the coffee shop, but I was making at least $200 in a five-hour shift. So I'd walk out with $200 every morning to go spend half of it on my $100 a day pill habit. Because I was making so much money,

I wasn't stealing. I wasn't really lying. And I was able to keep that up for a long time. At this point, my parents still trusted me. They had no reason not to trust me. And you don't think they knew it all. You know what? I don't know.

I don't think they did. There were some like, I guess, hiccups that would pop up. Like, what's this I found in your car? And I was always able to talk my way out of it because they still trusted me at that time. They had no reason to not. So they took whatever I said. at face value. That would change very soon. But at that point, I was kind of getting away with it. But at this time, I also had this deep anxiety starting to build up because I knew what I was doing

was wrong. So I could just, I could feel this just super deep-seated anxiety starting to build because, you know, I'm lying to my friends back in Kentucky. about what's going on. I know what I'm doing is wrong. I'm lying to my parents and saying, oh, I picked up an extra shift, but I'm really out, you know, fucking around with my boyfriend at the time doing pills. So while I was able to keep it up, it's like in the back of my head I knew, like, I can't, this isn't like, I can't keep this up. Yeah. All of my relationships at that time were all based on drug use. All my friends that were, a good influence on me, we're all back down in Kentucky. My boyfriend was using my coworkers

were using, my friends were using. And addicts tend to be very codependent, whether it be with relationships or friendships, and that's when that started to develop too. Very codependent and conditional friendships. Like, if one of us were to stop, I don't know if we'd be friends and it's very transactional, which at the time seems normal. But, you know, it is what it is. That's kind of the relationships you make when you're in addiction. I don't know how, but I was able to raise my GPA, and I was able to go back to the four-year university.

And I went back and I was able to stay clean from Pills. hills. And to be honest, I think it's just because I had no access to that. There was nothing in my mind telling me I'm going to be clean and sober. It was like, well, I can't get them anymore. I'm Anna Garcia, host of True Crime News, the podcast. Every week, we bring you in-depth coverage on cases making headlines, as well as those that go under the radar. Tune in for murders that defy explanation, mystery seeking exploration, and shocking secrets that will leave you breathless. Each week we honor the victims by going beyond the salacious in our search for justice. Crime never stops and neither do we.

Listen to true crime news available now wherever you get your podcasts. So did you end up quitting that job when you went back to school? I did and they knew that. That was always the plan. Like I'm here for a semester to work, get my GPA up. So they knew it. That was always the plan. Did you stay with a boyfriend?

We tried. And I think because I was picked. up and taken out of that situation that I was able to kind of pull it together a little bit, and he was not. Okay. By no fault of his own, he was just kind of left there in that situation. And he continued to use, and it just, it didn't work. Yeah.

And to be honest, I really don't remember. I don't remember how it ended or how we broke up. We did end up breaking up. Okay. So I went back to college. I did the exact same things as I was doing the first time. around. I was just drinking and partying, doing drugs, not going to class. But this is the time when I had the first thought of, I don't know how, but I'm different than everyone else. I don't know how these people,

we just had a night of like railing lines and doing shots and they're just able to get up and go to class the next day. Like, I don't know how, but I'm different. I can't just do that. Like in my mind, It's like, how are you guys like doing school when there's so much fun to be had? It was like school got in the way of like having fun. Yeah. So. Like you couldn't balance it. No, I had zero balance.

And it seemed like all my friends had this perfect balance of, you know, having fun on the weekends. But then, you know, when Monday comes, it's time to, you know, it's time to be a student. It's time to get to work. And I just, I could not do that. So I failed out of school again. I think I dropped out before I could get kicked out. So I came home again. And at this point, I'm like, I don't know what to do because college is done.

That's my second major fuck up in life. So I'm kind of at a low point. I went back to my bikini barista job. A few of the same people were there, a few new people. Within a week I was using again. And I can't blame anyone but myself. I was excited. I got off the plane when I came home from college.

I could like smell like the drugs and the proximity. Like I was like I could feel like, oh my God, they're close. And that's all I was thinking coming back home. I was ready. I reconnected with my boyfriend before I left the second time. I reconnected with him. And then this is when I was introduced to heroin for the first time. And I still remember this story.

Like, this could have happened yesterday. I was working an afternoon shift. So it was very slow. I really had nothing to do. One of my regulars came through and he got his, like, you know, strawberry banana smoothie. And he goes to pay. And he's like, oh, man, I don't have anything to tip you with. And so that's fine.

Like, you come here every day. Just, you know, give me next time. And he goes, no, no, no, I got something for you. So he pulls out a little, he was a lottery ticket. He had a lottery ticket and it was full of heroin and he opened it up and gave it to me. And I said, what's that? And he looked at me like I was the stupid one and said, it's heroin. Like, oh, no, I'm good.

And that was the first time I ever remember being scared of trying something. And I was like, no, no, no, I'm good. Just take it. And he's like, you know, no, take it. It was like, God, like two people fighting over, like who's going to pay the bill at dinner. Like, yeah, take it. No, I'm good. So he put it on the windowsill for me because it was a drive-throat.

So he laid it on the window sill. I didn't touch it. I went back to whatever I was doing. But it was like I could see it in the corner of my eye. And I'm thinking, do I really want to? Like, this is, you know, this is something I never said I would do. And being an addict is full of nevers that you end up breaking. breaking. Like, I'm never going to, I'm never going to try heroin or, you know, I, I snort it,

but I'm never going to shoot it. I'm never going to steal it. And it's, it's just a string of nevers that you almost always end up breaking. So I ended up trying it. You do, like the one that what he gave you? Yeah, what he gave you, the one that was on the windowsill. I ended up trying it. That was my switch moment. Okay. That was, I don't, just something flipped. And I was like, that's it. Did you try by yourself? I was. I was in there by myself. We worked one at a time, which was how so many people were able to to get high because you're in there for six hours by yourself. There's no cameras or anything in there. You're able to just sit in there and get high. So did you snort it? I did. And how did, like, how do you know how much?

Or you don't. I did. No, I didn't know. I just, I did a really, really little amount. And I figured, you know, I'm on pills. Yeah. Like, I have a little bit of. of a tolerance. So I did just a teeny, teeny amount, and that was all that it took. I did, you know, just a little bit. I felt great. Did it hit right away? No, it didn't. So I remember sitting there thinking like, this sucks. Like, why do people do this? But I sat there and you feel it kind of like in your stomach and it kind of like a warmth just like takes over you. And I remember I'm warm and fuzzy. Ashole customers aren't bothering me. I'm getting my closing duties done like in record time.

I got out of here at 503 instead of five. I'm like, this is great. Like, no wonder people do this. This is awesome. And I worked on that little lottery ticket he gave me. I was working on that for like weeks. I would just, it was like my own little secret that I had. It was like my little secret weapon that I was, you know,

taken little bits from for like a week. And once it was done, naturally, I'm like, well, that's done. I want more. You know, a normal person would say, well, that was fun while it lasted. But no, I was, I want more. And like I said, I had reconnected with my boyfriend at the time. And he had gone through the progression of, he was on heroin by this point.

He had gone through the progression of pills to heroin. I don't know a single addict that just woke up one day and said, I want to do heroin today. It's just not the way it works. And I think if you were to ask any other addict, they wouldn't be able to name one person that just picked up heroin. Like you're saying that it kind of like leads to that over time. It's almost, I would say like 99% of a time it's a progression from prescribed opioids to street heroin. You start with, you know, oxies, percocet, those are expensive and they're hard to find. And you build up a super high tolerance to them.

And then when someone introduces you to heroin, it's cheaper, it's everywhere, and it's stronger. So any addict, why would you not? Right. You know. And so at this time, we are like into the opioid epidemic in this country. So pills became harder and harder to find. And so when you take pills away, it allows for dealers to step in and say, hey, I got this for you instead. And that's exactly what happened.

So I became pretty much a regular heroin user for the next maybe. six months I was introduced to my dealer at the time, which sounds weird. But again, I kind of like group like parts of my life into who did I know? Who was my dealer at that time? What was I doing? So this is around fall. And I decided I wanted to start cosmetology school. So I did do hair school.

And I started hair school in the fall with a full-blown. heroin slash pill addiction. I don't know what part of me thought that that was a good idea or that I could sustain that. But I was able to. I held it together for maybe like nine months. And looking back to what I was using, who was selling it to me, I was doing 100% fentanyl. I didn't know it at the time, but knowing what I know now, that was straight fentanyl. which is so dangerous.

I would do a little amount that big and I would be knocked on my ass for four hours. Yeah. Like I would wake up hours later and just do it all over again. When you took it the first time. No. Right. So it was stronger.

Yeah. And it was gray. And a lot of people don't realize that fentanyl has like a gray color. And so I was doing straight fentanyl. for months and months and months. So by maybe, I'm coming towards the end of cosmetology school, getting high is a full-time job. I'm working at a salon part-time, making crap money

that's not enough to support my habits, so I have to spend my days figuring out how to get money, which means school got in the way of my full-time job of getting money and getting to the city and getting high. At this point, one of my best friends showed me how to go to Baltimore and get high. Baltimore has one of the, if not the largest, if it's not the largest, one of the largest open-air drug markets in the country. So when you go there, you don't have to know someone. You don't have to pick up the phone and say, hey, I'm 10 minutes away.

Where do you want to meet? Oh, let's go to 7-Eleven. you just have to drive there and they will find you. You just need to drive through West Baltimore and they will flag you down and they will literally find you. They know how to pick people out. That person wants drugs. That's crazy.

It is. I remember witnessing it for the first time like this is insane. My friend drove me there. He said, keep your windows open. Don't bump your music. Don't make eye contact with anyone that I, that I'm not telling you to make. make eye contact with, don't look down alleys, just keep your eyes ahead of you. I will tell you who to make eye contact with.

And I was terrified. It's like, what? And I was like, what are we doing? I'm to the point where I'm putting myself in these dangerous situations and for what? Yeah. You know, and that just, again, started a cycle of putting myself in stupid situations. Right. For what?

And, you know, that's just, it's what you do, unfortunately. I was going to say, like, I think that, unfortunately, that's kind of like your safety becomes the least of your concern. Absolutely. I did not care. And I've had families say, like, well, weren't you scared? Aren't you scared to go there? Like, aren't you scared meeting with these people?

And it's, the chemistry of your brain really does change when you're in the throes of addiction. That's just like the farthest thing from your mind. there was one time I was um this is such an like awful story I was um waiting uh to meet my guy I was in west Baltimore I was in my car on a street corner and I rolled up and he gave me my stuff and I said hey hey this one's really short like look at that it's like half full and he said okay you're right you're right let me go grab you another one so he left and as I'm sitting there twiddling my thumbs I hear gunshots behind me. I'm just kind of on my phone and I hear pop, pop, pop. And I could smell it immediately. I didn't know that you could smell when a shooting happens. It's like, it's like smoke.

And the first thought to a normal person should be, I got to get the hell out of here. My first thought was, shit, he has my drugs. Right. Look what am I going to drive off and leave my drugs here? And so I sat there and waited and I'm sitting there like, okay, let me count to. 15 and if he's not back I'll go okay let me count 15 again let me count to 60 he came back but so it wasn't him that got shot no it was not him thank God no he came back I remember it so vividly he threw it in the window he was running he threw it in the window and kept going and I was like all right cool now I can go that's crazy now I can leave oh my God yeah so by the time I finally was able to get out of there they had already blocked off the street first for

responders were already on the scene. I think about this cop, this lovely lady every day. They had the street blocked off and I'm just trying to get out of there at this point. I just want to go and she said like, no, no one's getting out of here. You're in a crime scene right now. We just blocked off the street and I just gave her this eye contact like, out. Yeah.

And she waved me through and I was able to go and I think she knew what was going on. Like this girl was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. So I was able to go. And I think back to that, like, how ridiculous is that? My first instinct should have been to put my seatbelt on and get out of there, not sit there and wait for my drugs to be delivered to me. Yeah. But I think, too, like we were saying, I feel like when you're in that state,

that is your mean concern and that is your most full-time job. It is. And the thing is, too, that's a reason why addiction is so bad. and so sad because it's like everything else around you that once was important, like your safety and your loved ones and your jobs, all that, none of that, all that kind of like disappears. Like all that matters is the drug. Like people, I mean, I'm sure you know, people will do anything for it. Yeah.

So it's like because it's an addiction. Yep. And your brain changes. It's like things that were once so important to you just don't matter. And we're still trying to figure out that process of, you know, you it's so weird you your priorities change you age regress right um it said that you stop progressing mentally at the age that you start really like doing drugs that will affect your brain like you know hardcore using and um i went to rehab for the first time at i don't you know

maybe early 20s and i didn't notice it and then as i'm getting older and I'm getting clean, I'm starting to realize, my God, I have the mentality of a 19-year-old. Like, I'm 24 and I'm acting like I'm in high school. And that was a wake-up call. That was scary when I realized it, oh, my God. Right. And it's even scarier seeing, you know, other people in treatment that are, you know, approaching their 40s that have been getting high for 20 years.

So there's these, you know, 40-year-old men and women that have the mentality of 19, 20-year-olds. And it's really shocking to see. Yeah. It's almost like it puts like a stop on everything. It does. And then it just puts your brain on pause. And it takes years to fix it. Okay.

So I figured out how to go to Baltimore and I had figured out they have this crazy open-air drug market where you can literally pull up in your car and you do the transaction through the window. So we were doing that. And this is when I first had the introduction to IV. And which is what? Like IV, like shooting. Okay. So shooting heroin.

Yes. Okay. Well, we'll get that. So I had asked my friend, I said, he, my friend, I won't say his name, but my friend, he was the first IV user I had ever met. He was the first person I ever saw shoot up. And I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I was like, oh, my God, you see this in movies. and on TV, but I can't believe I'm seeing this in front of me.

And after hanging out with him for so long, I said, I want to try it. Like, I want to see what all the fuss is about. And for addicts, there's an unspoken rule that you should never be the person to give someone their first needle. One, selfishly, you don't want to be responsible for that. You don't want that hanging over your head. And is that just because it's like taking the next. step kind of deeper into it.

Right. So. Because it's more, it's more intense and serious than sporting it. Absolutely. Like on my end, I don't want to be responsible for that. I don't want that over my head. On your end, I'm about to ruin your life. Right. By giving someone their first needle.

And that's the kind of the unspoken rule. You just don't be that person. So the first time I asked him, he said, no, no, you don't want this. Trust me. Like, it's not fun. You don't want this. And I can't remember how I ended up convincing him to do it, but I convinced him to shoot me up for the first time.

And I did a speedball. So I mixed heroin and cocaine together and shot that for the first time. And it was nuts. I remember he did it. He took the needle out and he handed me a pillow. And I was like, what do I mean? He's like, you're going to want this. And I was like, all right.

So I took the pillow from him. I'm not feeling anything. He said, okay, well, maybe you have low blood pressure. Get up, run around and get your blood pumping. And I did. I stood up and I kind of jogged in place and I felt it. And I went, oh, my God. I, like, grabbed onto the table.

I was like, oh, my God. And I grabbed a pillow and just, you know, just sit there and it's, it was one of the most intense physical things I have ever experienced. So you're just sitting there, like, feeling it. Yeah. I couldn't do anything but just like sit in it like feel it yeah I couldn't talk I couldn't move and then it finally started to wear down and my first thought was like let's do it again really that was how long do you think it lasted like the feeling so a cocaine hot like an ivy cocaine high it lasts seconds okay so it's quick it's quick you feel that initial rush of like whoa and then it's gone um Ivy

heroin, you feel that initial rush, and it's a very, it's a shorter come down. So it's not, it's kind of hard to explain. And you start that here, right? Like right in your arm? Okay. And then like, it's kind of over time, but if like you use that being too much that you go to other areas, right? Okay. So, yeah. And then I was at a point I had used up this arm. I had used up this arm. I had used up here. I had used up over here. And then I, um, I mean, luckily, I think that's where I ended up getting clean. Yeah. I stopped in my arms, thank God.

But I definitely know people to shoot up in their neck, to shoot up in their feet. Yeah. Yeah. I've seen, I think there's like a major vein in like your crotch area that you can shoot it to. And I've seen people do that. It's nuts. Yeah. So did you do it again after that first?

So I did. Like right after. Right after. I was like, okay. Well, since I did cocaine. and heroin together, I want to do a shot of cocaine and then I want to do a shot of heroin. So I did, because I wanted to see how each one felt. I was like a fucked up science experiment.

Right. So I did a shot of each and I decided, I like Coke better. I think that's what we're going to go with. So I started using cocaine intravenously, which you don't hear about a lot. I was going to say, I don't even think I'd hear that. It's like with my circle, everyone's doing it. everyone was, you know, if you weren't doing just Coke, you were mixing it in with your dope shots.

Okay. I was just doing straight Coke. So, and it's so up and down, you become a crazy person. And when you come down from an Ivy Coke high, you fiend immediately. It's like, like, I got to get more. I got to get more. It's like, it's irrational. Yeah.

It's an irrational like panic. Like I remember one time we had done the last of the Coke, but I didn't know it was the last of the Coke. So I had come down and I said, all right, let me do another one. He goes, what do you mean? That was the end of it. I don't think I've ever had a meltdown like that. Like just what? What do you mean?

Like I, it's the weirdest feeling. It's the most intense, irrational, crazy, like fiending for more. And so because I was so like up, up down, up down all the time I was going up with Coke and then I would come down with heroin to kind of ease that, like, crash. Like, I was up and down. It ended me up in the psych ward. How long do you think that you did that for? Oh, God.

Um, probably a summer. Okay. Like a summer every day. And were you working at this point? Um, at this point I had been kicked out. I had been kicked out of cosmetology school. I had because I had missed so many days that they were like, all right, you miss so many days in a row, you're out.

Like you can't miss 10 days of school and then we just let you back in like nothing happened. So your days mainly were drunk? This is all I did. I was lying to my parents saying that I was in school all day, but really I would leave my car at school. So if anyone drove by, they would see my car in front of the school. My friend would pick me up. We would hustle up some money. We would get to the city, go back to his house, get high all day, and then I would go home. That's all we did every single day.

I loved it. I loved it. Like I didn't like the bad parts where it's like, oh, you know, I'm dope sick. I feel like shit. But it's like, that was a pretty good life to me at that time. like doing nothing but getting high all day. And how old were you? Do you think at this point? I had maybe just turned 21. Okay. So I think I was 21. And I'm 28 now. So this is, you know, it doesn't, you know what? It doesn't seem like that long ago. But it is. It's that long ago. I ended up in the psych ward. And I don't, I don't remember getting there to be totally honest. Was that like your parents doing? I don't remember. Okay. I think it's because I knew that I needed help, but I was not ready to admit it to myself.

And I wasn't ready to admit it to any of my friends, any of my family. And I think I kind of used it as like, you know, I got to get somewhere, but I can't just go to rehab. Right. And I was there for, gosh, maybe a week. I was in the psych ward for a week. And then this is around the time where my mom started getting sick. My mom started having health issues.

And my mom, she had MS. She had a lot of stomach issues. So she had been ignoring this for a long time because it's, you know, if any time she would go to the doctor, they'd be like, oh, it's a symptom of your MS. So anytime something came up, she'd be like, whatever. Yeah. So I get out of the psych ward.

I don't think I'm working at this time. I think I just moved back in with my dad and was just being. And that's really the only way to describe it. And my mom was diagnosed with cancer. She had stage four metastatic gallbladder cancer. So by the time they found it, it was in her liver. And for lack of a better term, they gave her a death sentence. They said, we can try.

We can, you know, we can give you chemo and the medications, but that's really all we'd be doing is buying you time. But we can try. And so, of course, my mom was like, yeah, we're going to try. And I had had a conversation with my dad. The same thing happened to our neighbor. He was diagnosed with lung cancer. And they gave him about two years. He was gone within six months.

So I told my dad, you know, that's my biggest fear. Like, what if the same thing happens to her? What if she's gone within six months? And he goes, and he's like, I don't know how to, you know, what do you even say to that? She was gone in three. Wow. She was diagnosed October and she was gone in January. So it was very quick.

At this point, I wasn't in school. I had no job. I had nothing to do all day, but either sit there and crave or sit there and actually like, all right, let me go get high. And, you know, I don't know if my mom had made the conscious decision. Like, she's just got to do her own thing. And I, there's nothing I can do. Or I don't know if it was that or she had, you know, her own stuff going on.

But either way, I was not in the full. forefront of their problems, rightfully so. Like, the last thing they need to worry about is me. And I completely took advantage of that. I completely took advantage of the fact that my mom and my stepdad weren't home all the time. They weren't really focused on me. And that's kind of the way I wanted it because nobody was really like, you can do what

you want. I can do what I wanted. And, you know, once I got out of the psych word, I was clean. for a little bit, but I just remember, I had nothing to do all day, but sit and have cravings. Because I had no job, I had nothing to do. Right, there's going to distract you. There's nothing to distract me from the fact that, like, I'm trying to stay sober. My mom has cancer.

Like, I don't, so I was using again at this point. My mom passed away January 2017, and my first rehab was April 2017. Okay. So in those three months was like, 12. brain wreck. Like, you know, I was trying not to feel. I was trying not. I was actively trying not to grieve. I'm like, I don't want this. Um, so it was just Ivy cocaine use. I was smoking heroin at this point. You can do that. So I was smoking heroin at this point. Is that like the same? Is it, what would you say is like the worst way to do it? Um, like, is each way like a different, I guess,

reaction or feeling or it all hits the same in it? So it's hard it's hard to describe. So someone introduced me to you hey you know you can smoke heroin. I tried it. I'm like this is not half bad and so I would introduce it to other people. So it's just like different ways to use. I would say in my opinion I would say like a starter way to do it would be snorting it. And then I would say smoking is probably, smoking it is probably as close to shooting it as you can get without actually shooting it. Because it's smoke and you hold it in, it hits you immediately.

Okay. But at this point, you were just doing whatever. I was doing whatever. I could get my hands on. I landed myself in rehab April 2017. So there was a three-month period where it was like, um, I wasn't speaking to my family. I was hiding from my dad at every chance I get.

I would never want to go home. I would sleep at friends, at boyfriends. I would sleep in my car just to avoid going home. I don't know. I really don't know why. I think it's because he knew what was going on. And the second I see him and face him, this is all going to come crashing down.

And I don't want it to come crashing down yet. at this point I had completely like fucked my relationship with my family. They didn't look at me at the funeral. They didn't speak to me at the funeral. I sat by myself at the funeral. I was the first one to go in and I just picked a seat thinking that people, you know, I would pick my seat and people would just kind of file in and like, I guess we're sitting here. They went to the clear opposite side of the room and said,

when we're not going over there. My dad sat with me. Bless is hard. And that was a huge wake-up call that, like, these people want nothing to do with me. Yeah. You know, it was a wake-up call, but I was also like, these assholes.

Right. You know, my brain didn't comprehend that, like, this is my aunt's sister. This is my grandma's daughter. I'm like, this is my mom, you assholes. And I just, I couldn't. you know, it was a very me, me, me, like time in my life. And I don't necessarily agree with the way they handled that.

But I understand why. And it took me years to even reconnect with them and kind of come to terms with like, okay, this is why they did what they did. Yeah. I ended up in rehab April 2017. I was only there for two weeks because my insurance wouldn't pay for anymore. that's the American health care system at work. I was there for two weeks.

I got out and I went to my first recovery house in Annapolis. Recovery housing in Annapolis for women is pitiful. It's so bad. So you're living there, right? Yes. I got about maybe 90 days clean. And I relapsed immediately. And when you were getting clean, the withdrawal from that, was that pretty intense?

You know what? It wasn't. And I don't know why. Just that first time I went to treatment, it wasn't that bad. So it was more like the challenge was actually staying away from it. Yes, it was much more of a mental challenge than it was a physical challenge. And, you know, I kind of, I almost wish that it had. been worse because maybe that would have like been like I don't want to like I don't want to do that ever again but it was so like I had fun there like you know I was finally a little bit more clear headed I made some friends that I still talk to um so I was in a recovery house I got maybe 90 days and I relapsed and I I don't know why you know I wish I had some kind of something that happened and that's why I went back out but like I think I It's addiction.

Yeah. There's no rhyme or reason. Like, I feel like if it was easy, people wouldn't, it wouldn't be a problem. Yeah. You know? And, you know, so I relapsed after about 90 days. I moved back in with my dad. You know, I told my dad that I was going on a podcast and he said, with all due respect,

I'm probably not going to watch it. But I was like, okay, I get it. I get it. And he said, you know, just if there's one thing that I want you to say, just tell them that I never gave up on you. And I was like, okay, I'll tell him. Make sure that they know. He really didn't.

You know, this whole time, I'm treatment back with my dad. Psych ward back with my dad. You know, he, parents kick out their adult kids, their adult addict kids all the time. I was going to say, too, everybody has a different way of parenting. Yeah. You know, and I think some people, I mean, you hear stories where the parents are strict and they do everything they can and it still doesn't work. Right.

You know what I mean? So I just feel like, and like you said, your mom was going through a lot and everybody does it in their own way. But I think the main thing is support because if you didn't have support, I feel like that would be even worse. Yeah. And now a word from our sponsor. All right, guys. As we get older, unfortunately, our hair starts to thin. At least mine has.

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spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L dot com promo code insane. That's NutraFol.com promo code insane. Now back to the episode. He didn't know what to do either. Yeah. But he was there. And that's really all you can do. Right.

You just be there. That's like literally all you can do. I moved back in with him and I started another job at this time. Very soon after starting, I realized that one of my coworkers was like, like a severe alcoholic. And my fucked up brain, I used this to my advantage because I was flying under the radar because everyone was focused on, oh, she's showing up drunk to work again. And oh, she had to go to treatment again.

And she's a mess. And I was completely flying under the radar. I was working, getting high, and no one knew a thing. No one knew until I told them. I literally called in one morning and said, hey, I'm not coming in. I'm going to go to rehab today. So have a good day. I'll see you in 30 days.

And they were completely blindsided. So I was, you know, holding it together. Went to treatment again. And that was you decided to go back. You know what? I think it was my dad. I think it was, he was like, you're going like tomorrow. I don't remember what led up to it.

But I remember it was like, you're going. I went back to, it was Hope House. Shout out Hope House. They're amazing. They do amazing things there. I'm a frequent flyer miles at Hope House. This is where I met my daughter's dad. We met in treatment.

That was the first time I was in treatment. I was there for just after Thanksgiving. I was there for Christmas and I was there for New Year's. And I just, it was, it was bad. And that time I did have really bad withdrawals. I showed up. They give you a drug test when you get there, obviously. And this is when fentanyl is really starting to become a problem.

Fentanyl is hitting the streets. I tested positive for fentanyl when I got there. They stripped me. They took my clothes. They took my bag, everything. They threw everything in the wash. They threw me in the shower. It was like, you know, it blew my mind to see people being so careful around someone who's even come in contact with fentanyl.

Well, I'm like putting this in my body on it. a daily basis. The withdrawal was awful. I don't think I left my bed in maybe four days. So do you think the difference between the first rehab and then this one was the fact that there was fentanyl on your system this time? I think so. I think that's really the only thing I can think.

And it is, it's worse with fentanyl. And you go through withdrawals quicker. Okay. You know, if you were to do pure heroin and you stop. you could probably maybe, maybe go like 12 to 24 hours without really feeling like, ooh, okay. With fentanyl, you feel it like after six hours. Okay.

You start to get sick. So where your withdrawals, it was like throwing up and all that or? Like throwing up, sweating, hot and cold. You can't sleep, which I think is the worst part because you can't even, you know, sleep through all of this. You can't sleep. your muscles ache. You can't stop moving. You feel like you just have, you know, you can't stop moving your arms and your legs. I literally took my sheets and I tied my legs together.

And I like tied my legs together and I threw the sheet. It was a bunk bed. So I threw the sheet up in there and I pulled it up to like raise my legs and like hold them together. It was the only way I was like going to stay still. You just, you can't walk. he can't move. I had to, you know, the TAs had to come into my room every, you know, couple days and make sure I was alive and changed my sheets. And that was, you know, set me straight for a little bit because I'm like, I never want to feel this way again.

How long do you think that lasted the withdrawals? Like four days. And that's typical. It's usually, like, if you can get over that. three to four days of like severe withdrawals, you can probably make it out through the other end. But the problem is trying to do that in a non-controlled environment when you're, you know, if you try and do that at home,

what's to stop you from being like, fuck this. I don't want to do this anymore. Right. So. So. Yeah. If you're miserable and you know the only thing standing between you and feeling normal is going and, you know, getting high, you're going to go get high.

It's like I can't imagine a person that would have the willpower to do. I mean, I'm sure some people do. do as people do it, but I would never be able to have that kind of willpower. Finished up a 30-day stint at Hope House. I moved back to Annapolis and went back to the recovery housing in Annapolis. And again, one of the biggest issues I have with just the recovery housing for women is awful in Annapolis. You either go to House A or House B. There's like two, I guess, not companies,

but like two different people that own houses. The first one is like very strict, sometimes to a fault. You know, five meetings a week. You need to have a job, which is not a bad thing, obviously, but you need to have a job, five meetings a week, 8 p.m. curfew. And it's a very one-size-fits-all approach to recovery.

I haven't been to a meeting in years, like five years maybe. Yeah, I haven't been to a meeting in like five years. It's just, it's not the way I stay sober. So it wasn't very personal. It's not. It's a one-size-fits-all. Like, if you want to be clean, this is what you do. You come home by eight.

You work 34 hours a week. you go to five meetings a week, but not CDA. You have to go to NA or AA. And then Recovery House, B, it's a flop house. Like, I don't know anyone that's gone there with the intention of like, I'm going to go here and be clean. It's like, I'm going to go there and get high with my friends. Those are your two options.

Yeah. So, you know, if I really, I don't have a desire to really work in the recovery field, but if I was ever going to, that would be the first thing I do was open up a happy. be medium in Annapolis. Yeah. So I was at Recovery House A. Got kicked out almost immediately. They don't require you to stay there.

No, you don't have to. I mean, you could go home. Like I could have gone back to my dad, but it just made the most sense. Like, let me, obviously what I'm doing isn't working. Let me try something. Yeah. Oh, I remember what it was. I was on Vivitrol at this time.

Vivitrol is, it's a big shot in your ass that's like a, you know, a needle this big. And it's an opioid blocker. So when you take it once a month and you can't feel the effects of drugs, it works on like the pleasure centers in your brain, which it is a miracle drug for some people. It was not for me. It deals with the pleasure centers in your brain. So you can't get high, but you also can't get pleasure from anything, not from food, not from sex, not from music, like nothing. So nothing was bringing me happiness at this time.

So did you feel depressed? Yes. I was in like a dark hole. And I got faced with like a moral dilemma, like, okay, I'm in this dark, dark place and I know that it's because of this drug. do I want to stop taking this drug and start to, you know, even myself out? But I know myself. If I stop taking this, I'm getting high.

Right. So it's like, what do I do? Like, what? And I stopped taking it because I'm like, I don't want to off myself. So I stopped taking it. And I got high again. So was this when you were still staying in the house? Yeah.

Okay. So they weren't, when you're staying in this house, They don't, they're not really like monitoring what you're doing. No, they are. I was getting kicked out and let back in over and over and over again. So when you're getting kicked out, that's when you were going and getting high again. Exactly. And then so they, I mean, as many criticisms as I have, they do make it so you can get back in.

It's not like you get high, you get kicked out. That's it. Yeah. You have to reach back out to them within 24 hours and say, hey, I got kicked out the other night I went back in. And I think you have to pretty much be on your own for a couple days. And then after that third day or something, if there's a spot left, because they'll fill your spot. They've got women in rehab that are waiting to get into houses. If that spot is open and they can find one for you and you can pass a drug test, they let you back in. And that's what I was doing over and over and over again.

I was getting kicked out and let back in. Okay, well, we're going to let you back in on probation. Okay, this time we'll let you back in. But you have to do nine. 90 meetings and 90 days and you have a 7 p.m. curfew and blah, blah, blah, blah. So they were trying. They were working with me. But once I got back in, this was like my first long stretch of sobriety, a point in my life where I felt like I wasn't clinging to sobriety. I felt like, like I felt normal.

And then I found out I was pregnant. So I found out I was pregnant. and this is my daughter's dad at this time. So we decided, you know, I guess let's move in together. So we found a townhouse up in Frederick with the sole purpose of, all right, we need to, you know, start working on thinking about it, you know, a baby coming. As soon as we moved into that townhouse, I miscarried.

So I know that it wasn't immediate. but it was something that like planted a seed and I didn't want to deal with and I wanted to just move on. But both of us ended up using again. And I think it's we just, we rushed. We had way too much freedom, way too early. We should have both still been in recovery houses at that time. Towards the end, and this is another era that I'm thinking of is the time when we lived in Frederick. Towards the end of this, I ended up getting Mercer.

What is it? It's a medic, basically a staff infection that's completely resistant to antibiotics. I got Mercer and I don't even know how I got it in my armpit. They think it was from like a, I sat my razor down and picked it up and shaved. I was in the hospital for 10 days maybe. I had to go in for like emergency surgery to get it fixed. I was on crazy. I had like two IVs and each arm with two bags going into each IV.

so I had like one, two, three, four, five, like eight bags of antibiotics going into my body at one time. And obviously, I wasn't paying rent while I was in there. I wasn't working. So we ended up losing the house, which put, I'm trying to think of like a name that I can call him. I don't know what I. So that put my daughter's dad that put him on the street, we didn't have a house. Was he still using it this time? He was.

He was still using. I stopped using while I was in the hospital, obviously, because I was in the hospital. I wasn't, you know, going anywhere. But that left him basically to his own devices. He lost the house or we lost the house. He's, you know, he's not from here. He's from Massachusetts. He has no family here.

All his family is either in Massachusetts or Puerto Rico. He's got no one here. No, all his friends are, you know, living in recovery housing. So there's like, I do, I don't know how to help you. It's not like you can just come stay with me. So I moved back in with my dad and I think he, and again, this whole thing is like so cloudy because it's a total blur.

This whole time is such a blur because it just seemed like I was in just this ridiculous cycle of like, you know, high gets over, kid high gets over. And it was just so monotonous. such in a cycle. I don't even remember where we were living or who we were living with. We weren't living together. I found out I was pregnant again. And that sent him straight to rehab.

He was like, well, we're going to have a baby. Which is good, though. Which is good. That's absolutely good for him. In my mind, I didn't want to stop getting high. I was like this, you know, in a selfish mindset, I'm like, I don't want to stop getting high. I don't want to stop doing what I'm doing. I went in to have an abortion.

Did he know this? He did. He did know this. They ask you three questions. They say, like, you know, one, is anyone forcing you to do this? Is this your own decision? Two, do you want to take a picture home, like an ultrasound picture? Three, do you want to know if there's multiples?

And so I said, yeah, let me know if there's multiples. And she said, yep, I see two of them in there. It was going to be twins. So I was like, oh, my God. So I was like, I can't do it. Like, I don't know what to do, but I can't do it. So they called my dad into the room. and I told him

and of course he was like why I just I was like look I know this is what needs to be done I can't do it at least not today he was like that's fine we'll go home we'll talk we'll come back

I did go back they did another ultrasound and we found out that the pregnancy wasn't viable anyway and there's a good chance that that's my fault. There's a very good chance that that's my fault because I was getting, I wasn't taking care of my body.

I was getting high this whole time. They said one of the fetuses was not growing enough and because it stopped growing, sometimes it'll just get absorbed, but sometimes it will start to affect the other one. And that's what was happening. So I ended up having to terminate regardless. And, you know, as awful as that was, I'm glad that that was a decision that the universe made for me because I had no clue what to do. I had no job, no money. I'm living with my parents.

I'm a severely addicted to heroin. I'm like, what? I had no clue what I was going to do. So for better or worse, that was a decision that was out. of my hands and I'm, you know, like I said, as awful as it is, I'm, I'm glad that that decision was made by the powers that be, whatever's out there. And then I kept using and that just, you know, sent me into a spiral. Like, in a lot of introspective thinking, like, what am I doing? I'm getting older. Like, when is it going to stop? When is this going to stop? I'm, I'm, I'm,

I could have had this pregnancy, and I didn't. And literally all I had to do was just go to treatment, and I didn't because I'm too selfish to think about anything but my wants and my needs and none to the people around me. I got fired for my job. At this point, they were so like beside themselves on what to do. They just were like, you're done. And then this brought me back to a point, I have no job. I have nothing to do all day.

And it started up again where all I do all day is hustle up some money and get high. And that's all I did. I was, I think we were both in recovery houses at this time. And we were both using, but we somehow, like, didn't get kicked out. I think we were just hiding it. And then around October 2018, I found out I was pregnant. And this is the one. This is the one.

So I found out I was pregnant. I was on the phone the next day with treatment centers. Like I need to get into treatment. I don't know. You know, I can't do this again. I was denied from, I think, three or four different rehabs that said, no, we're not going to take a pregnant lady. They just didn't want that responsibility of having.

having to detox someone that's pregnant. So I got denied from four maybe, four different treatment centers. Or they told me that I had to go to a detox first and then go in. But I was trying to make this like as quick as possible. Like I didn't want to have to tell my dad, okay, you know, I'm going to rehab, but I have to do this first and then I have to prove that this and then this can happen. And I just wanted to go in there and be like, going to rehab, bye. Like, that's what I wanted.

One fix. And it just, it wasn't happening. And luckily, I stayed in touch with one of the counselors at Hope House. And I called her, I think I called her cell phone. I still had her number and I told her what was going on. And then they called me back later that day and said, okay, you can come. And I am so grateful to her. Her name is Jen.

I love her. She's an amazing lady. She has pulled me out of some. shitty situations in my life. I love her. So went into, this is my last and final rehab, God willing, and this is my last time. I was able to do my 30 days. I moved back into recovery housing, probably around, you know, I had 30 days clean and I

was like 12 weeks pregnant. I get out, start working at Red Lobster because I'm like, I just need something. and start working at Rhode Lobster. And they knew about the pregnancy, and they were very cool about it. Like, you know, you work until you can't work anymore. And then at this point, I think I was very pregnant. I moved into an Oxford house.

An Oxford house is, I have nothing but good things to say about Oxford houses. An Oxford house is a very good step. I would say that it's probably, like an inpatient rehab, recovery house, Oxford house, you're on your own. Okay. The house has its own bank accounts. We pay our own rent to our own landlord.

We buy our own food. We pay our own electricity. We pay our water. We get to decide who moves into the house. So it's not like we don't wake up one day and, oh, I guess we have a new roommate today. We get to decide who comes in. we get to decide who leaves.

And like I said, I have nothing but good things to say about Oxford House. I think moving to an Oxford House is one of the best things that could have ever happened to me. It taught me a lot of responsibility and it gets you ready to be on your own because when you're living in like a traditional recovery house, you put your $150 a week in the box and I don't know, the lights stay on somehow. It's really all there is to do. Let's see. So I was able to move into a women and children's house.

And then my daughter was born July 2019. How long were you in the Oxford house for? Oh, gosh. I moved there when I was very pregnant. I think I was like maybe eight coming up on nine months pregnant. Do they have like time limits on those houses? Nope. You can stay for a couple months.

You can stay for 20 years. Okay. Like you can stay as long as you want. So the point of it is what basically, like are the, Is there any type of structure there? Yes. Yes. Okay.

Yeah, absolutely. There's structure. But it's all, the structure does not come from like an outside office. Okay. Telling you, hey, you need to do drug tests on everyone today. It comes from within the house. So we elect a president, a treasurer, a comptroller, and everything is handled within the house. And are all the people that are staying there?

Are they recovering? Yeah, everyone is in recovery. So you have like kind of like a good support group. Absolutely. Okay. So I had my daughter July 2019 and she moved into the Oxford house with me. I was able to take her home. You know, it was great bringing her home and, you know, I'll kind of go into that with having a newborn baby and a recovery house.

It has its ups and downs. but we definitely had to deal with CPS visits to the house when I first brought her home because I'm an addict in recovery when you have a baby. And I was on Suboxin at the time. That was one of the conditions of getting into treatment was, yes, we'll take you, but you have to go on Suboxin. And Suboxin can be used as like a short-term detox, like, we'll, to help you go through the withdraws, like we'll give you 10 milligrams Monday,

eight on Tuesday, four on Wednesday, six, two, and then, you know, you tapered down. Or it can be used as like long-term maintenance. Like you take eight milligrams a day and it, that's just what you do. And so at the time that my daughter was born, I was on Suboxone, it doesn't matter what they're born on. It doesn't matter if you're prescribed it or not, how much, how little if you are born, or she's born with anything in their system, you get a visit from CPS. And it was hard.

I mean, you know, at this point I had had a little bit of sobriety and it, you know, the woman was lovely. Don't get me wrong. She was nice. But it's hard, you know, when you think you're doing so well and then you see CPS walk through your door to make sure that you have hot water and formula, it was almost like a slap to the face. Right.

And, you know, I don't even know if that's standard that you get an actual visit from CPS, because sometimes you can get reported and they go, whatever, no, we're not doing anything. Or I don't know if it was one of the nurses or what, but dealt with that. While I loved living in an Oxford house having a baby there, you know, it's fine for where I was in life. But looking back, you know, it's a revolving door. of people. Someone comes in. They're there for a month.

They relapse. They get kicked out. We vote someone else new in. And, you know, there's like a core group of maybe two or three of us that stayed there. But for the most part, it's people in and out constantly. You never know who's, you know, I mean, we interview when we vote people, but you still never know. Right.

The amount of times I've had to, like, kick someone out and then pack their room up. and I'm like, okay, we've got alcohol, we've got needles, you're bringing all the shit into the house. Like, this is a women and children's house. I've had to clean out people's rooms all the time. And I find their pills and their drugs in their room. Oh, my God. Like, it just makes you think, like, we've got kids here, for God's sake.

Right. I just always felt like I couldn't trust anyone. There's theft all the time. I don't know why addicts love stealing from each other, but addicts love stealing from each other. there was one time we were hanging out in my room. I had a nice big room, so everyone kind of liked to congregate in there. And one of my roommates was holding the baby, and she must have been like less than six months old at this time.

She was a baby. And she's, you know, throwing her in the air, and they're laughing. And I'm like, oh, cute. We had to kick her out later that night because she was drunk the whole time. And I'm like, oh, my God, I just handed my kid off to a drunk person. and I had no clue because I'm a very trusting person. I don't, you know, and I don't have a radar for when people are fucked up either. Right.

Like you could be drunk right now and I'd have no idea. Yeah. So I have no like six cents for that. And it made me so like clinging to never, you know, hand her off to anyone because you never know. I moved into a second Oxford house when I was probably a year into recovery. and I was there for a long, long time. I loved it. I moved there in January 2020,

and of course the pandemic hit a couple months later. It was nuts. It was absolutely crazy. Every meeting, like a meeting and a moving move to Zoom, rehabs like just weren't taking as much people. I think a lot of people, don't realize how much the pandemic affected people in recovery. You can't meet in groups anymore.

There goes any kind of like emotional social support. A huge portion of like our social life is going to meetings. Like that's the people you are friends with. And when you can't do that and you're stuck inside, it's like. It's isolating. Yeah. It's super isolating. And that's a huge trigger.

for a lot of people is being isolated. The rehabs weren't taking as many people. You had to wait for your COVID test to go through before being admitted. And at this time, this was, you know, March 2020, the COVID test took like, would they take like three or four days at this point? A lot can happen in three or four days. They're, you know, people are dying, like waiting to get into treatment, which is the most unfortunate thing ever.

And I've seen it so many times. even before the pandemic, you know, I've seen so many people that die waiting to get into treatment. You know, weightless are months long. And like I said, a lot can happen even in three, four days, a couple months. And it's unfortunate. A lot of people didn't even want to go because you have roommates in there. They shoved like four people into a room in there. So nobody wanted to be in close quarters.

Oh, and I also wanted to talk about when I first got into like my first rehab years ago, I had this mentality that I'm cured. Like I went to treatment. I detox. I'm cured. I never have to do this ever again. And I found out very quickly that that wasn't the case. And even my, you know, I've been clean and sober for years.

years now. And I still deal with this bullshit all the time of this cycle of like starting a job and everything's going good. And then I let it slip. I let it slip that I'm in, you know, in recovery. And everyone's opinion just shifts immediately. I could be the best worker and it just like people's opinions around you. Yeah.

I worked at a therapist office when I, I think I had like a year clean at this point and I started there. And I was living in an Oxford house at this point. So it's really hard. I guess hide isn't the right word, but it's hard to hide it when you're living in recovery housing. That's where you live. That's what you do. That's a huge portion of your life. It's hard to, you know, not talk about it.

So I let it slip. Well, I feel like the thing is it shouldn't have to be something that's hidden. Exactly. And I think that because of the world that we live in, and I don't know if it'll ever change, people are so judgmental. Yeah. And everybody wants to think that, well, if you lived a lifestyle like that, then I'm better than you in a way.

Oh, my God. Yeah. And I think that that's bullshit because you are where you are and everything that you went through to get to the point took a lot of work. Yeah. So it's like, it's. like it's part of your life. It's part of your experiences in life.

And I feel like it shouldn't have to be something that's hidden. If anything, I think it makes you stronger and more powerful because it's like, yeah, I did that. I got through it and look where I am now. I love that. It's true though. It's like it's annoying. I don't understand it.

Yeah. No one sees it like. But there's always something like that. And like something smaller even as like tattoos. It's like as you know, it's like people will look at you and have a certain mindset because, oh, she has tattoos. Why? You know what I mean?

Yeah. Like, it's just crazy to me that because someone, you know, maybe was an addict or because somebody did this or even like somebody, I don't know, it could be anything. I feel like people automatically jump to this judgment of either you're lower than them or you're not capable of as much or not as trustworthy, something, anything. You see it as a moral failing. Yeah. Like this is a bad person.

Right. Right. Can I trust this person? Yeah. I don't think that's true at all. I'm not a bad person. and I've never been a bad person. I've been a sick person.

Yeah. I've been a person that needed help. Yeah. But I don't think that I've ever been like, I mean, who can even say what makes a good person or a bad person? I don't think I don't think I'm a bad person. Right. I don't think at this point in my life, I don't think I'm an untrustworthy person. I think, you know.

But that's what people jump to. Yeah. And so, of course, I let it slip. And when you say that you mean you would just like open up about? Yeah. Like when people start asking questions like, oh, where do you live right now? I'm like, oh, I'm in Lentha come. Oh, do you have, do you live with your boyfriend?

No. Oh, you don't? But don't you guys have a kid together? Yeah, I have roommates. You have roommates? Well, yeah. And it's like you try and dance around it. But like it ends up coming out.

And sometimes it just doesn't go the way you think when you let it out. Like, okay, well, yes, I live in Lentacum. I live in recovery housing. I live there with my daughter and we're awesome and doing great. And it's, you know, oh, okay. So I let that out. You know, I didn't even let it slip. I opened up.

I opened up to my boss about it because we were just chit-chatting. Yeah. And then towards the end of the day, time that I worked there. I was on the phone with a patient and I put him on hold. I said, okay, I just got to grab your chart from upstairs. Let me put you on hold and I'm going to run upstairs. So I go upstairs and I go looking for his chart and I find my chart. And I'm like, ooh, I want to see what's in my, it's my chart. I can open it. I found a letter dated for my within my first week

saying that I don't think Emily would make a great asset to this company because of her drug use. She lives in a recovery house with her daughter and claims she has a year clean. This is a letter that somebody wrote about you? This is my boss, after I told her all that, my boss wrote to the practice manager.

Oh, how kind. Yeah. saying that, you know, I'm nodding out at the front desk. Mind you, I had a six-month-old baby at home. She's still not sleeping through the night. She's eating. She's still eating in the middle of the night. Of course, I come to work and I'm tired.

Saying I'm nodding out at the front desk. I was on Suboxin, so I think I took it at work one day. The wrapper was in my file. like here's what she takes, here's the milligrams, here's how she acts before she takes it, here's how she acts after she takes it. I think she should be let go due to her drug use. And did they fire you because of that?

No, they didn't. Thank God, I think they were like, we're going to have a lawsuit on her hands if we fire this girl. And basically the practice manager wrote back, you know, just talk to her. Right. Ask her, hey, I noticed you're really tired in the morning. Are you okay? because the explanation would have been, oh, God, you know, I've got a baby at home.

This is my first time going back to work, you know, after having a baby. That would have been the explanation and that should have been the end of it. There was also another time I was answering the phone and someone called and he said, hey, is Dr. So-and-so taking Suboxin patients right now? And I said, oh, and I'm sorry, he's not taking new patients right now. And this guy, like, broke down on the phone and was like, I don't know what I'm going to do. I really need help. And I said, oh, God, I felt bad.

And I was like, you know what, let me take your number. Let me give you a call back. So I went online and I googled, okay, call this number, call this foundation, go to a firehouse in Annarundle County. They'll get you into basically, like, here's some things that you can do, you know, if you can't get in here. and I wrote it down on a post-it and I called him back and he said oh my God thank you so much I appreciate it tossed it

threw it away I found that post-it in my chart like look she's looking up rehabs and she's looking up like ways to get help just bullshit yeah and again the explanation would have been just that like it was literally not for me

it was for someone else you know stuff like that And then every, like, text conversation I had ever had with my boss, like, screenshot it and put in a file. And I don't think I've ever felt rage like that in my life. I should have quit on the spot is what I should have done. I did not quit on the spot, though, but I think I put in my two weeks,

maybe like a couple of days later. Like, I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe that, you know, I'm doing the best I've done in my entire. entire life before drugs or after drugs. Like, I'm doing the best I've done. I'm, I am kicking ass at motherhood. I'm paying my own, I just bought a car. I'm paying my own car payment.

I'm paying my own rent. I'm paying for my insurance. And it just felt like someone's shit all over that. And I think that that's the screwed up part is people don't realize, like, I mean, who knows her reasoning, why? It could have been many different things. but at the same time, I don't think people realize, like, to me, it comes back to support. And if she was genuinely concerned, like you said, she should have asked.

But also, it's like, I don't think people realize, like you said it, that can make, especially because even though you had what, like a year clean, it's just like that can really shit on everything that you've worked so hard for because I feel like even though you had that year, I feel like you're still in a fragile state. Oh, absolutely. So it's like, I don't think people realize the impact that their actions can have on people. and it just pisses me off because it's like, why? You know?

Yeah. And it did. I was a mess for a while. I just kept going back and forth between angry and sad and maybe I'm not doing as good as I think I am. Like I feel like I'm doing great, but maybe I'm not. Like the judgment of others. Yes, yes. And it's, you know, no one likes being judged.

No. And no one deserves that too. That's why it always comes back down to just like just people being there. And like at the end of the day, everybody's going to make their own choices and decisions, whether that's right or wrong, good or bad. but no one, everyone's going through their own shit in their own way. So it's like to judge others based on that is just fucked up. Mind you, this is in my first week of this job too that this letter was written.

What could I have done that was so bad in my first, within my first week that you recommend my termination that quickly? I just, I felt like, you know, and I was out of there very soon after that. And I, you know, I love the job I'm at now. I love them. But I have my boss. She comes in, I don't know, once a week or so. And I have the coworker that I see every single day.

And I told her, oh, I'm going on a podcast. And I told her, you know, and she knows. And she doesn't care. And she's like, oh, that's awesome. And so we were kind of like, we were writing this, basically kind of, she was helping me outline everything. And my boss comes in, oh, what are you guys doing? And I told her, oh, I'm going on a podcast next month and blah, blah, blah.

And she said, oh, what is it? Oh, what it? And she already knew that I was in recovery, but I had to go, oh, well, I'm just going to go and tell my story. And she said, why would you want people to know that? Yeah. People have such different minds. Like, I don't, the thing is, is I think that there's a group of, a big group of people

that think it's easier and better to hide your flaws. And then there's the group that realizes by being open and sharing them, not only can help you, but help so many other people. Absolutely. And I think that it's the fear of judgment. It's the fear of whatever else. And I think a lot of people, but that's why I'm always so proud of the people that come on here.

Because one, I know for a lot of people, it's their first time speaking in front of a camera, sharing their story for the public to hear. And also it's just like a lot of people don't have the courage to come and literally be vulnerable and open up and say, okay, this is what I've been through. And I'm here now,

but it's so inspiring. And it's interesting. And it's real. Like there's so many people. out there that go through shit, you know? And enough people aren't willing to talk about it, but I feel like if more people opened up and kind of let go of that fear of judgment, maybe people would be better off.

Yeah. I think people would be better off. And it would make, I think it would make everyone a little bit less judgmental. Right. A little bit nicer. Yeah, exactly. A little bit nicer.

She said, why would you want people to know that? And I, it just didn't even occur to me that I'm letting people know. No, it's kind of, you know, if one person can hear my story and not even, not even get inspired. I'm not talking, oh, get inspired and turn your life. If one person can hear my story and just go, mm-hmm, that's all I ask for. Yep. And that's the thing too is, like I feel like it's interesting because like you said, you're not on here to say, oh, drugs aren't fun. But it's more like to know, to know and hear someone else's story of like, okay, here's one type of lifestyle and here's another type of lifestyle.

and here's another type of lifestyle and I'm choosing to live this one because it's better for me and it's better for my child. And, you know, so it's interesting because I think that there's, there's so many different, there's so many different stories

and experiences people can have. But I think that it's just so interesting that you can see how both different lifestyles can affect you and what's better for you. And I don't know. Because I think that coming, like you said, coming on here and saying,

oh, well, it was horrible and it was this and that. Of course there was horrible aspects. And it isn't the best way to live like. But, you know, I just think that it's inspiring that, you know, having your daughter was able to make you have that change and just be like, okay, I need help. I'm going to do this for her. And ultimately, you ended up doing it for both of you. Exactly. And yourself. And I think that's incredible. And how long have you been clean now? Oh, gosh. Five years. Okay. Amazing. Good job. Congratulations. That's seriously incredible. And it's great. Like, I'm so happy. And, you know, when I was in treatment, we'd have people come in and share. outside meetings and it was people like me that have, you know, had it four or five years and they come in and they would come in and say, my life is, mind you, I have about five minutes clean at this

point. I'm sitting in a rehab and they'd go, my life is so great. I just bought a car and I just bought a house and I have this and that and my family trusts me and I'm rich now. And I would be sitting there like, fuck you. Fuck you. Like I cannot relate to any of it. And so I always said, if I ever shared my story, I would just come in and talk about like, I'm happy. We're okay. We're doing okay. Like, you know, I'm content.

I'm safe. And that's what I, the feelings of being clean and sober is what I want to talk about. Not the material things that I've gained along the way, but just the feeling of peace that I have now. I don't, I no longer live with this in a constant state of anxiety. I don't feel like I have to watch my back. I don't have to think about the people that I have around me because I know that the circle I have around me are good people. And that's what I always wanted to share, the feelings that come with being clean.

Yeah, I was going to say, too, like the ability to be able to put others first too, not just yourself and not just, I think it helps you become less selfish. And ultimately, you're healthier because you're putting your health first and mental health, physical health, everything. Right. Which is incredible. Yeah. But seriously, it's amazing.

Congratulations. That's really good. So are you still living in the Oxford House now? No. So I have an apartment. It's me, my daughter, daughter's dad. We're all together living in an apartment. And we are about to buy a house, which I know I just said.

No, that's good, though. We're starting house hunting. Good. And we're okay. Yeah. You know, we're not, you know, we still have our issues. We still have our day to day, but we're okay. It's such a good feeling to come home, you know, like when I leave here, I'm going to drive home.

I'm going to plop down on my couch that I bought and I'm going to watch the TV that I pay for. Yeah. And I'm going to go take a nap in my bed that I paid for. And it's such a good feeling. And I never thought that I would have anything. like that. I did not plan to live past about the age of 23, 24. I never saw life past about maybe my early 20s and the fact that I'm here approaching 30 and we're okay. I mean, that's all I can ask for. And you're sharing your story. And I can't express enough. I always tell people, I think the more

experience that you have in life and the more shit that you go through makes you just a more incredible person, no matter how dark or how bad it is. Of course, like in those moments, it's, it's never good. But I think that all of those things, they make you who you are, they make you stronger. And they teach you so many lessons in life that you wouldn't have without it. You know, so I just think that's incredible. And I think it's amazing where you are now. I think, you know, I know that you said not to inspire, but it is an inspiration because to get, it is, because to have that many years clean, people still struggle every day. You know, and it's, I think that, It is something that people can watch and they can relate to it or they can be like,

mm-hmm, I get it. But then they could also watch and be like, okay, well, if she could do it, I could do it. Right. And I think that's something that you should realize too. And like I said, I always say you should be so proud for wanting to come on and even share your story to people because that takes a lot of balls. Yeah. A lot of balls.

Getting sober is probably the one of my biggest accomplishments. It was hard. It was hard. And staying sober too. Yeah, and staying sober. Because you had the moments of like going back and forth and back and forth. So you got it all. You know it.

There's a saying that people always say like, when it's, let me think. It's my worst day sober is better than my best day getting high. I think that's bullshit. That's such bullshit. Like I've had some really shitty days in sobriety. And I've had some really good days in active. addiction. That being said, it's better on this side. It's, you know, anyone who's listening, I can promise it's better on this side. Life is better. Right. And on that note. Yep. Good job.

It did amazing. Thank you.