We're All Insane - Addicted To Pulling Out My Hair: Living With Trichotillomania

Episode Date: November 25, 2024

Head over to Manscaped.com and use code INSANE for 20% off + free shipping!! Bailey Rae describes in detail her life living with trichotillomania, a hair-pulling disorder that affects million of people worldwide. Through her candid words and experiences, she opens up about the struggles, stigma, and emotional toll of this condition—and how she’s learning to embrace her true self. Links: https://www.instagram.com/trich.blog/profilecard/?igsh=bjZ0MTc4eml5aGl1 If you have a unique story you'd like to share on the podcast, please fill out this form: https://forms.gle/ZiHgdoK4PLRAddiB9 or send an email to [e-mail] Business Inquiries please contact: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, it's me DeVora. I just dropped an all-new bonus episode inside my new subscription channel, We're All Insane Plus. This week's bonus episode is called My Brain was slipping into my spine. Listen now by subscribing to We're All Insane Plus inside your Spotify or Apple Podcasts app or go to we're all insane.com. Hi, my name is Ray. I'm 20 years old and I'm here today to talk about a mental health disorder I have that's called Trichotillamania. I feel like a great place to start is with what trichotillomania is, because it's kind of a big word. Yes. So essentially, it's a hair pulling disorder.

It causes overwhelming urges to pull out your own hair. It doesn't really matter from where. Mostly mine is from my scalp. Sometimes I pull my knee hair. I don't know why. Is it a form of OCD? It can be. So it depends.

They're not sure what causes it. Some people, it is caused from OCD. which is what I think it's caused from for me personally. But it is a lot like OCD because it is obsessive and compulsive. I kind of compare it to people who have tick disorders because I feel the same way. They're like, I can't not do this. And if I don't do it, it feels like I'm going to die. It's pretty similar to me.

So if I have a feeling on my head and it's a hair that I need to get out, it's like I need to get rid of this right now or I'm going to die. And then as far as the hair that you're pulling out, is it like usually just a strand or two, or is it more like chunks? It depends on my stress levels. So normal baseline, it's just going to be individual hairs. I target the darkest hairs, the thickest ones. Sometimes they grow in wrong and they're really coarse and just like really, I don't even know how to describe it, just like really curly and coarse. And I just need to get those out immediately. So I'll sit there and I'll just mindlessly kind of like rummage around through my hair until I find one and then I'll pull it out. When I'm really stressed out, I'll just twirl and then yank.

It doesn't hurt. I've pulled so much to the point. It just doesn't even hurt anymore. Yes. And you would say that for the most part, it's stemming from stressful situations. Yes. Okay. Yep.

It's kind of my joke that my baseline emotion is anxiety. So just always feeling stress The best way for me to relieve it is to pull out my hair Some people cut some people like pinched they stab themselves That's just my form of self-harm I guess There's not a lot of awareness about what trichotillomanias is No And a lot of the time when I tell people that I have it their first thigh is like

Whoa like that's crazy like you're crazy And it hurts it hurts a lot because I'm trying to be vulnerable with people and be like, yeah, this is like something I really genuinely struggle with. And they're just like, that's really weird. Well, the thing is too, like you said, it's important that you're bringing awareness to it because whether it's that or whether somebody's doing a different form of kind of like self-harm. Yes. In a sense, like they all are in the same category in a way. It's just the different types, I feel like. So that's why it's important to touch on all of them, not just the kind that we're like used to hearing about. Right. Yeah. Trichotillamina is really closely connected.

to another disorder called dermatillomania, where basically you just obsessively, like, pick out your skin. I do that, too, like, just around my cuticles and stuff. So it's pretty similar, just kind of following down that OCD pipeline, I think. Yeah. What age did the start for you, would you say? So I've kind of always had an obsession with my hair. Ever since I was really young, I would, like, suck on my hair, which is really weird. I would suck and chew on it. my mom had no clue, like, that there was something wrong with me until I started coughing up hairballs. Okay. Like, I bet you probably didn't think humans could get hairballs, but they can.

I did. Now we know. Yeah. So that was always just a genuine problem with me since I was a little kid. It was just chewing on my hair. I remember, like, probably when I was seven or eight, I just, with the ends of my hair, always crusty. And I'm not sure why I did it. But I just like the feeling of it.

I like the texture of it like on my lips in my mouth. And I still kind of do that when I pull out. Like I'll just tap it against my lip or just roll it like on my face. I just like the texture of it. That's the biggest reason why I pull it out. It's because I want to play with it. It started becoming a problem when my mom married my stepdad. That's when I think I started pulling out my hair.

he was a problem. He was a narcissist. And he hurt my mom in a lot of ways, not like physically, but he would like emotionally abuse her. And so I would kind of take that stuff and I would stomach it. And what I saw, I would kind of just reflect. And so the ways I handled that stress was that I pulled out my hair. I started like wetting the bed too just because of the anxiety that he caused in the household. And you were still pretty young? I was nine, I think, when they got married. And then they divorced when I was like 10. He got arrested.

And so then my mom found out that in prison he was cheating on her. They divorced. And then I was like, yay, finally we're free. And then my mom met another man. This is a really important part of my life. And I think this is the biggest cause as to why I pull out my hair. I was sexually abused by this man for probably a little under a year. At first, it was small, like it always is.

He would just touch me and I'd think it would be an accident. And then it slowly just started to develop into more. I pulled out my hair as a way to cope with it all to have control over my own body. I think I recently came to that discovery with my therapist. And I think that's why I pull out my hair because I want to have some sort of control over me and my body because I didn't have that control before. When this first started happening, did you tell your mom about it or did you kind of wait a while? I waited a long time. Okay.

I waited a long time. But you kind of like target as that being around the time. Yes. You started pulling out your hair. Yeah, definitely. Like I said, I always kind of did have that obsession with my hair. Yeah. But I definitely started pulling more because of this occurrence that was happening.

Like escalated it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep. I think a big part of the reason why I didn't tell my mom when I was when it was first happening is because I thought she knew. because he would touch me in front of her. So we'd be like sitting on the couch and we're all under the blanket. He's sitting in the middle right next to my mom and I'm sitting next to him.

And he would just put his hand like on my crotch, like right next to her. And she had no clue. She had no idea that it was happening. And he would just do it. And he was so confident and he was just acting like he was doing nothing wrong. Yeah. And it started to escalate. Like, his hand would go from being on top of my pants to going under my pants.

And I started getting really uncomfortable. And I started reclucing myself a lot. I used to try to get off the couch. I'd move on to the uncomfortable rocking chair right next to him. And he'd still find ways to come over and touch me. Like, my mom, she's a smoker. So she'd have to go outside to smoke. And whenever she'd go outside, that's when I knew it was like game over.

I would be so scared for those moments that she was gone. Did you have a close relationship with your mom growing up? I was so close. She was a single mom. And my dad went out of the picture when I was four. He's an alcoholic. And he was starting to get really abusive. And so my mom, she took me and we left when he was at work.

And so it was always just me and my mom growing up. We'd live with my grandparents because she didn't have the money to afford. a house. I love my grandparents. But yeah, it's always just been me and my mom together. And I always had such a close relationship with her. And this man just kind of went in and drove us apart because of that. So yeah, whenever she'd go out to smoke, that's when he kind of took his opportunity to strike. I'd probably be either sitting like on the ground or on the rocking chair and he had just come over and force himself on me and just put his hands all over me and stuff. Really uncomfortable. We used to go on like long drives together, just us three. And he shot guns a lot. We'd go out into the mountains in Idaho to go shooting. And that's also another reason why I never told anybody because I was terrified of his guns and him because he was a really good shot. And he'd threaten me. And say that he'd shoot me or he'd kill my mom or that if he shot me right in the mountains that we wouldn't have time to.

get back to a hospital and I'd bleed out and die in the car. So he would tell you that basically as a threat for you not to say what he was doing. Yeah. Yeah. There's just so many times where I'd be out trying to explore the woods, trying to have fun. And then all of a sudden I see him creeping and then it's ruined. Right. Because my mom is nowhere nearby and she can't stop him. And he just be there. And I'm always scared he's there. Like, still sometimes I look in dark corners and I get scared that he's there. I get nightmares about him a lot. So just a lot of trauma and emotions associated with him. Yeah. And the biggest reason why I pull out my hair. I remember when I hit puberty, I was 11 years old. And I got my period for the first time. And I was so excited for all of

wrong reasons because I knew that if he tried to put his hand down my pants while I was bleeding, then he would be caught red-handed. And that never happened because my mom always told him when I was on my period because she was like, oh, she's having her first period. Like all that excitement. That never happened. It's really embarrassing. I mean, not really though, because that was your reality and that was what you were going through in your own mind. Do you know what I mean? And I think sometimes saying something out loud, you can think like, oh, like, that sounds embarrassing to say, but you can't control what your mind's thinking in those moments. Right.

It makes sense why a young mind and brain would think that way. Yeah. You know? It's sad that I had to think like that. Oh, it's horrible. It's heartbreaking. Yeah. It's sad that I had to think of my period like that as a way of catching somebody for molesting me

rather than being like, oh, it's my first journey into girlhood or something like that. Yeah. But shortly after I started puberty, probably about nine months into the abuse is when I told my mom. There was a show that we were watching, and it was called They Took Our Daughter and We Got Her Back or something like that. And it's a show about young women or young girls who have been kidnapped, and then they were found. And a lot of these girls, they were sexually. abused by their captors? Yeah. I think so. I think so. But they know what you mean. Yeah. They were sexually abused by them. And there was this one girl that she really resonated with me.

And I just remember I was sitting there and I was watching her tell her story and I just started like sobbing. And my mom was like really concerned because she was like, okay, this is not the normal amount of crying that somebody would have. from watching a show like this. And so she just had to pause it and she looked at me. And she's like, what's going on? And I was like, oh, it's nothing. It's just like this show is really emotional. And I knew that she knew something was going on at that point.

And she actually thought it was my stepdad that had been sexually abusing me, the one that had gone to prison. She had no clue that it was her boyfriend. And so when I told her that it was her boyfriend, And she was just shocked and she didn't really, like, she believed me, but she didn't want to believe me. Yeah. She'd be like, are you sure? Like, are you sure that it wasn't your stepdad?

And I was like, yes, I'm sure that it's, I'm sure it's him. And I was like, I don't want to tell the police. I don't want to do anything about this. I'm embarrassed. I just want you to break up with him. And it's just, you'd look at it from such a childish standpoint of as long as he's gone, as long as you break up with him. it's fine. I don't need any further police action. Now, as an adult, as I look back on it, I'm like, yeah, we definitely needed to tell the police. But then it was just me being like,

I just want him gone. And so she did. She broke up with him. She called him. And she's like, I'm going to, I'm going to kill you and all that stuff. But she didn't call the police. And I think, too, as a child, you not only had the fear of telling your mom, but then you also had the fear of like that he was instilling in you. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I was scared that he was going to gut me down.

So I was terrified of going to the police about it. Did he take the breakup fine? Did he just leave you guys alone? I think he was in shock that I told anybody. Right. From what I know, from what my mom told me what happened is she was basically like, you molested my child. And he's like, I'm so sorry.

And they actually worked at the same job. And so he's like, okay, but I still have. to go into work tomorrow and she's like, you are not coming into work tomorrow. I will kill you if I see you. And I think that's so stupid that he was worrying about going to his job the next day instead of caring about his actions and that he abused this 11-year-old child. But after my mom broke up with him, I remember I actually started playing her breakup music, which is really funny now, thinking back on it, but at the time it was not funny. But the next day, after Everything happened. My mom called her friend and her friend was like, okay, you need to call the police. You need to take her down to the police station. And I was protesting so hard. I was like, no, this is the last thing I want to do. I absolutely do not want to go to the police, but we did. And that was one of the hardest things I ever had to do. The sexual abuse in itself is really difficult. But I think one of the hardest things and one of the most traumatic things is having to tell people.

your story over and over and over again. Like having to relive it. Yeah. You have to tell it to multiple detectives. And then they have to believe you. And you have to tell it to your mom. You have to tell it to your grandparents because we lived with my grandparents. And that was the hardest thing is telling my grandparents. And I remember that they looked at me and they're like, why didn't you scream? Why didn't you scream for help when he was touching you? And I look back on it. And I think it's because I just didn't know what was happening to me. I was really young. And a lot of lot of people that age don't understand what sex is or what sexual abuse is. I was never really taught what the no-no square is and what good touch and bad touch is. And so while I knew that I didn't

like what he was doing to me, I didn't exactly know how wrong it was until I watched that TV show where she was talking about her sexual abuse. And then I realized, okay, this is bad. That's when I It's rough. Yeah. Yeah. So I had to tell the police. And the sheriff, I think, it was the sheriff. He was really nice.

Actually, have the same birthday. So I look back on that, and I'm like, I feel like that's kind of a sign that something good was supposed to happen. I know a lot of people don't believe in coincidences. And honestly, I don't either. Hey, I'm Jeremy Schwartz from American Criminal. On this season, robbery gone wrong or. cold-blooded murder. Either way, Boston will never be the same. Listen to American Criminal, the murder of Carol Stewart, wherever you get your podcasts, or to get early ad free access,

subscribe in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or at Americancriminal.com. But it's hard not to leave that one, because that guy was a, he was a savior in my mind. It was the hardest thing I ever had to do, but he made it so much easier because of how helpful he was, because he believed me. And that's all you can ask for when you go through something like that. Right. Were you able to press charges? Yeah. So in the end, after I told him every single thing that happened to me, that happened every single weekend for nine months. So it's kind of hard to recall, like, each and every single event that happened. In the end, it was over 30 counts of child sex.

abuse charges, though. So they went and arrested him. He didn't have any guns on him, which is one of the biggest concerns because he had so many. But it was a pretty easy arrest. They got him and he immediately just confessed to the crimes. Oh, he did? Yes. Did he have a prior record or no? No, but he did have a daughter. I met her a few times. And I don't want to say that she got sexually abused too. Was she your age? She was my age. Okay. I don't want to say. that she was sexually abused too, but she told me some things. And it definitely sounded like that was the case because a dad doesn't just hump his daughter, right? Yeah. That's basically what was happening. Right. She never ended up coming out about it, though, which is really unfortunate.

I don't talk to her very much anymore because it's just really hard to. Yeah. Because, you know, I locked her dad up. And you still have that trauma surrounding the whole situation. I do. Yeah. I do. So when he was arrested, it was easy, thankfully, confessed everything. But after that, I actually had to set up interviews where I had to talk to childhood, like child detectives, you know, detectives that talk to children about this kind of stuff. I had to like sit in a room with one and tell her everything that happened to me again. So probably the fourth time that this has had to happen. And then after that, the worst thing is the medical examination, which is traumatizing in of itself.

Basically, you know, they just, they put you down on a table and then, you know, they got to take swabs for DNA and stuff. And that was, it was just really traumatizing. Yeah. It's hard and embarrassing and you don't want to be there and it hurts. Yeah, it feels violating, I'm sure, too. It's very violating, especially after everything that you just went through. And, you know, they can be as nice as possible, but it's still going to traumatize you. It's still going to stick with you for the rest of your life.

I had a hard time with doctors after that. Like, I could not do doctors. I didn't go to a gynecologist for a really long time. And when I did for the first time, it was like kind of reliving it all, honestly. Yeah. Yeah. So the biggest help for me in my journey after that was this group called Baca. They are bikers against child abuse.

I've heard of that before. They're amazing. I love them. So my mom was able to get in contact with them and we were able to get me into it. And basically what it is is a bunch of bikers, obviously. You get assigned two of them and they will do everything for you. They will fight for you. They will take you out to ice cream.

They'll take you out to dinner. They're just there to help you. And I think it was an amazing part because they were both men and I was terrified of men. But those two men, they helped me learn that they aren't scary. And they're just there to support you and love you. Right. And it's good too because like you just said, it gives you that different outlook of a man. It does.

Yeah. And it shows you that there are good men that are out there that will be that manly figure that will protect you versus violate you. Exactly. Yeah. And I have my grandpa too. I was, and it's really sad, but I was scared of him for a while. I shouldn't be because he's the most amazing man. He raised me.

He's my father figure. He's the only dad I've ever really had. But I was scared of him for a little bit. But the Baca really helped. My bikers were Popeye and Nug. Everybody has codenames. Mine was Pickles because Pickles is my favorite food. They were just amazing.

So it's an organization, right? And is it all over? It is all over. So it is a volunteer organization. So if anybody is into motorcycles and they love children, they love, like, supporting children who have been through really hard situations, I'd say volunteer for it if you're able to because these kids need you. They need something. They need a lifeline like that, especially after something so traumatizing. So I recommend that for everybody.

Even if yourself are a parent and your child has been through any kind of abuse, Baca is great. Like, it doesn't matter the kind of abuse that it was. They have parties and stuff. They have like pizza parties. They'll do like water parties. So you can just go and you can bond with other kids too who went through similar experiences. Right. Gives you that sense of community.

And the best thing that Baca does is that they will show up to your court hearings. They showed up to every single one for me. Even when I didn't want to go, they would still be there for my mom and for my grandparents, just to be a support system. And so when we finally got to trial to sentence him, I had all of my bikers there. It was everybody in Baca. They were all there for me. And I just remember I was starting to break down, not in the courtroom, but like in the waiting area outside of the courtroom because I was terrified. I just, I started crying. And I remember, like, a few of them were just trying to come from me.

And one of them had the best Tigger impression on the planet. And he cheered me up with that. I'm like, I was sitting there. I'm like, I'm too old for this, but thank you. Just doing Tigger and Elmo impressions. And I'm like, I'm not a little kid, but I appreciate it. Yeah, it works. It works.

And so when it was finally time for court, I had the choice to either be, like, in this secluded room where he couldn't see me or I could have the choice to be inside the courtroom. And I decided to be inside of the courtroom because I don't even know why. Honestly, I was just a brave child, I think. It was a really traumatizing thing that happened to me, but I was still trying to not let that take my dignity. Good. I did sit in the courtroom when sentencing was happening. It was very overwhelming.

And I'm very thankful for Popeye and Nug because they actually made like a body barrier around me for when he went into the courtroom and then when he left the courtroom, so he didn't see me and I didn't have to see him. And he ended up pleading guilty, which I guess I'm somewhat grateful for because if it was an innocent plea, it would have been more work for me and it would have been a lot harder. But because he pled guilty, he only got three years, which is insane because it was over 30 counts of child sex abuse. So that's only 10 counts per year. and that's just so crazy to me. Yeah. And so after that is when my hair pulling got to be its worst.

I was in sixth grade. That's when I came out about it. I was like 11 or 12, I think. I actually came out about my abuse in October. So October is a really hard month for me. But I'm here. I was going to say you're here now. I know, I'm here though.

You're giving it a different meaning now. I am. I am. But with it being the beginning of the school year, it was really difficult because I had a hard. time catching up on everything. I had to go to therapy twice a week. I had constant court hearings that I had to go to. I still was having interviews and I missed so much school. And my teacher had no clue. And so she was grading me poorly on everything. She was getting upset with me in class.

She was upset with me for not coming to class and just skipping because she thought I was pretending to be sick or whatever. And it was hard having a teacher just be. so relentless with you and just not even know what's going on in your own life. And eventually my mom had to come in and she had to yell at her and be like, you have no idea what this young girl is going through. And she eventually got better about it. But it got to a point where, you know, when you tell somebody, something bad that's happened to you, and then they start pitying you. They look at you differently. That's what I hate about telling people about my abuse is that people start looking at me differently. They look at me with pity in their eyes. And I hate

that look so much. And so she started treating me better than everybody else because of what I was going through. And I'm like, that's not what I want. I just want to not be yelled at for turning in my homework late. So if anything, it's just, it draws more attention to me. And so then all the other kids are like, why are they getting special treatment? Right. And it's rough. Yeah. Kids are cruel. Oh, they are. They are so cruel. They are cruel. So at that point, I think my hair pulling did take a slowdown because I was just so busy. I didn't have time to pull out my hair. But when I hit junior high, that's when it got to be the worst it's ever been. Junior high was the worst years of my life, basically. It's stressful. You're going to a brand new school, brand new people. You have no idea who they are. And then it's the first. formatting to getting to your classes on time, grades and stuff. That's all really stressful. So how old were you at that point? I think I was 12. Yeah, 12 or 13? I don't know. Okay. Probably 12 when I got in there. So like I said earlier, normally I just do the single strands of hair.

That's when I started just taking chunks out, just twirling it around my finger, ripping it out. And I would just do it to a point where I wasn't even thinking about it, just like subconsciously. Yeah, subconsciously doing it until one day I went to reach and then there was nothing there. It was just a giant bald spot on the back of my head. And I was like, oh, no, that's not good at all. I was so embarrassed about it. I am very grateful that I have very thick hair. I have so much hair.

So nobody could really tell when my hair was down. But it was starting to thin. And you said even when you would pull out chunks, you were doing it so often that it really wouldn't even cause any pain. No, it didn't even hurt. It didn't hurt. It's crazy to me when people get a single hair pulled out and they're like, ow, that hurts so bad because I'm sitting there and I'm like, it doesn't hurt though. But that's just me because I'm so desensitized to it, I guess. So just seeing other people's reactions to it and then looking in on yourself and being like, oh, wow, okay. I guess it is kind of bad. So once my head hair was starting to thin, I started targeting places like my eyelashes. Eyelashes do hurt to pull out no matter what. Maybe some people, it starts to slow down after a little bit, but they're always really

sensitive for me. So my eyelashes started to thin. And then I remember one day I was having a sleepover and at my cousin's house. And I got something like sticky and gross in my eyebrow, I think. And so I was like sitting there messing with it, trying to get it out. And then I started pulling out my eyebrow to the point where like half of my eyebrow was missing. And that is something you can't hide. You can't just hide half of your eyebrow missing. And so I remember I just had to like be like, oh yeah, I accidentally ripped it out because there was something in my eyebrow. I accidentally waxed it or whatever. And that was kind of my excuse. Kids in school though. Like I said, kids are cruel. There was this one girl and she just raised hell on my life. She would constantly mock me and bully me for it. And she's like, you know that you overplucked your eyebrows, right? And I'm like, well, I guess technically I did, but not that I meant to or anything.

She was just, she would torment me constantly. And it caused me to just be extremely insecure about everything. I care a lot about how people view me and stuff. And so the fact that this one girl just didn't like me wrecked me. my life. It doesn't matter. She means nothing to me now. But back then, I was like, I just want validation. She was one of the popular girls. And that's what I was seeking. I was seeking popularity, not popularity, but I just wanted to be cool. And that was not really cool. Well, the thing is, too, is I feel like you already had all of this trauma built up that left

you feeling probably weak in certain ways. And then going to a different environment, like a school where I feel like you're supposed to have a group of friends and feel like you, maybe not like a safe place, but like a place where you can learn and have friends and have groups. So then when she was doing that too, then it's like that's taken away from you too. Yeah. So it's just like beating you down further and further. Yep. It did get to a point.

I remember I had this friend and I think he wasn't my friend. I think he was actually just a bully, but it's kind of hard to tell. I was that kid that thought everybody was trying to be my friend. And I remember that he noticed the bald spot on my head. And then he was like starting to make fun of me for it. And I told him, I'm like, I don't know why, but I'm pulling out my hair. And he was trying to be sympathetic about it. But like I said, a lot of people have that reaction.

Like, that's so weird. Why are you doing that? And so then I realized that I need help. At this point, I actually stopped going to therapy because I graduated. So graduation in that therapy was basically, I don't cry anymore when I talk about my sexual abuse. That was graduating therapy. That's bizarre. It was. It was.

It was court-mandated therapy. So I think that's probably why we were also, we didn't have good insurance. So I think my insurance didn't want to pay. It's just crazy, though, to like say that because or assume that. Because just because somebody doesn't cry doesn't mean that they're healed. Exactly. That whole therapy was just kind of traumatizing because she just had me write down everything on a piece of paper.

And then everything, every single session, I would read the paper over and over and over again until eventually I just stopped crying. So you become numb to it, basically. Yes. I became numb to it. And I feel like I never really truly processed everything that happened. Like, yes, I can talk about it without crying. And now I probably won't have like those bizarre.

panic attack fits, but it didn't really... It's still there. It's still there. It's still there in the back of the mind. And it still torments me to this day because I still get that creeping feeling of something around the corner or those nightmares. I'd get nightmares of him outside of the house and stuff like that. So my therapy never really helped me, but I graduated.

So it was probably like five weeks that I graduated therapy. And I remember at the end, my mom was like, yeah, you're done with therapy. And I'm like, I'm done with therapy. Like, what do you mean I'm done with therapy? Yeah. Like, I don't feel like I'm done with therapy. But I just kind of went with it. Right.

And so at this point, after having troubles with pulling out my hair in bald spots, I was like, okay, there's something wrong with me. I need to get this figured out. And so what I did is I googled it. I was like, I am pulling out my hair. I don't know what's wrong with me. something like that. Google always has the answers. And then I discovered tricketilomania, which is what popped up. And at the time, there's no research about tricketillomania. Not much is known about it. The most that is known about it is that it is a hair pulling disorder. Right.

They don't know what causes it. They don't know why it happens. They don't know how to stop it. It felt very isolating. It was like, okay, great. I at least have a name to it, but I don't know how to fix it. Yeah. I don't know what to do about it. But I wish I remember her name, but I found a YouTuber and she would make comedy sketches about it. And I loved that. She helped me so much. And I just wish that I remember what her username was. But she was in high school too. And, well, she was in high school and she was making the comedy sketches. And it would just be simple things. Stuff that I related to, like pulling out her hair and then somebody notices her doing it and then they start making fun of her for it and then she would just she would just roll with it and it helped bring a lot of

comfort yeah kind of because you see this kind of stuff and it's really scary it's intimidating but it's nice to have somebody make fun of it because everybody needs to laugh yeah even when you're going through something really horrible like that it's just nice to see people other people, too, who are struggling with the same disorder as you, and they're still going through life. It's relatable. Yeah, it's relatable. It's very helpful. And so I think seeing her and her content helped me tell my mom about what was happening.

And it was hard. I told my mom, and at first she didn't believe me. And then I had to show her the bald spots. And then that's when she kind of started freaking out, which I don't blame her. Because if you see your own child is pulling out their hair, you're like, like, oh, God, what did I do? Like, how did I screw up this bad? And she didn't take it very well. I love my mom, but I know at the time she was really stressed out, and that's probably why she reacted like that. But I remember that she, like, threatened to send me to a mental institution

or stuff like that. And then I was like, okay, game over. I guess I'm done. I think the slight issue is, too, and I think this is still an issue, maybe not as much, because I think now. mental health is being talked about more and becoming more normalized to discuss. But I think that as a parent, especially like the older generations, when you see something like that or hear something about it, I don't think that they have as much of an understanding of the severity of mental health or like the different categories and what stuff is. Because like you said, even when you Googled it, there wasn't much information other than just like a definition. Yeah. So I think that a parent's first reaction might be like it's a behavioral thing or it's a thing to seek attention versus like,

okay, something might seriously be wrong here and it's something that's compulsive. Like they can't help it, you know? But I think that that's a lack of just education. Exactly. And I think I've noticed that too a lot, even just with the older generations, they don't seem to understand it as much. Yeah. And there's still not even that.

I know. There's more, but it's still like there's so much more that there could be. Exactly. Well, they were taught to push it aside. Yeah. To hide it. And I get that because my mom, she has a lot of stuff going on to mentally. And I know that she reacted like that because her parents never would have taken it well either. Right. So, but it was really difficult to hear, you know, to get validation that what's happening to you is not normal. And it makes you feel crazy. After like begging and pleading with my mom to not send me to a mental. to hospital. We signed me back up to therapy. And I think she felt really bad for how she reacted. So she tried to do more research about what was going on with me. And there's, like I said, there's not much. There was not much at the time. There still isn't. But what she found was there was a specialist for chichotillomania. But the problem was that he was three and a half hours away. And so that was unrealistic. Yeah. And so I never.

really got the help that I needed for trichotillomania. Like I said, we didn't have very good insurance. And so I had to do therapy at a behavioral clinic, which is basically the place where people with kids with anger issues would go and stuff, because that's all we could afford. And so I never got a good therapist. She didn't understand what was going on with me. What she would tell me to do is to sit on my hands, to not pull. And that's unrealistic. Yeah. Especially when you're in school, You can't just be like sitting on your hands while also trying to do like your math test. Right. I think the issue is too, you know, there are a lot of great therapists, but I also do think there are a lot of therapists that aren't fully educated.

Yeah. And maybe in some categories and aspects they are, but not in all. Exactly. You know, not everybody can know everything. So I think that the issue with that is once again kind of not really understanding the root causes and like diversions. and like diving deeper of, all right, like, we don't fix the surface level of just sit on your hands that are pulling the hair out. Like, we have to deep dive and figure out when did this start and why.

Exactly. Not a great therapist. She did help me try to process my sexual abuse a little bit more, though, because the original therapist didn't. Like, I graduated therapy, but obviously it didn't help very much. So this one, she helped a lot more with that stuff because her own daughter was also sexually abused. And so she kind of took me under her wing and helped me a lot to process that stuff. But for the hair pulling, it didn't help at all. I continued to do it junior high with how stressful

it was. I was constantly pulling like every day, maybe not constantly like ripping chunks out of my head. But it was getting bad. And it got to the point where half of my head was pretty much just gone. And so I decided, okay, it's time to just kind of go with the flow and go with it. So I actually shaved the side of my head and then dyed the other half red. And it was amazing. I loved that hairstyle so much. Like all my favorite characters had that. There's like that one girl in the Hunger Games who did the half head. There's also monster high dolls. I don't know if you know. There's this one monster high doll. She's a plant monster and she has half of her head shaved. That was my favorite doll on the planet.

So I was thrilled to look just like her. But, you know, kids, kids suck. And if you look different at all in any way or unique. You look different, you know. I had this friend. I had a huge crush on him. And he hated it. He made fun of me constantly for that hairstyle.

And I was just crushed because I liked him so much. And the fact that this guy that I had a huge crush on hated the way that I looked just demolished me. It was so upsetting. And so then I kind of just started being more self-conscious about it. I started trying to hide it. I started just trying to grow out the haircut because I wanted him to like me. And also I had a lot of problems with my teachers. They would make fun of me for it, too, because they had no clue what was going on at home, obviously. And a lot of them were older. So the older generation. They think I'm just probably some punk kid. Yeah. But I was not. Did shaving the side of your head help at all with the pulling? It did. It did because you can't really get a grip on the short hairs.

So that would kind of drive me crazy. And you wouldn't pull from the other side? I did pull from the other side. So I just kind of switched. But I started pulling from other places too. Like my eyelashes, my eyebrows were really bad. I also started pulling out like. my pubic hair and stuff, which was bad. I would spend hours pulling out my hair. Like, I'd stay up until like two or three in the morning, just plucking out hair. Hi, guys. Today's episode is sponsored by Manscaped.

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and I wanted to look nice, and I was self-conscious. And puberty does a lot of things to your brain. So I was just a self-conscious little 13-year-old who didn't know what to do. So I would just pull and pluck and, mom, I'm so sorry if you wondered where all your tweezers went. I stole them all. So I just had a bad tendency of over-grooming, and it would be bad. I would bleed. I had these just big wounds and I swear they were probably infected.

Yeah, I was going to ask you, like, did the spots in your head or just like anywhere else that you were pulling hair from, would they become like raw almost? Yeah. Yeah. Yep. There was this one really bad spot and it became just like this giant ingrown hair because I would just constantly pluck at it. And it just became like this giant gross, like open wound of an ingrown hair because there was multiple hairs trapped under it. So it was just, it was horrible.

It was disgusting. Yeah. And it hurt. I was to say, it was probably painful too. It was so painful, but I was too embarrassed to tell anybody about it. So I just like one day stuck it with a needle and just started going at it and trying to like clean it, pull all the hairs out. And it was so painful.

And I have a scar there now. because of it was just basically a mingled operation. Yeah, it really was. Just doing it in my bedroom at like three in the morning. Because I was too embarrassed to tell anybody and I didn't want to go to the doctor about it. It eventually healed. It just took a really, really long time to heal. So with everything evolving around that guy that I liked, you know, I just trying to fix myself for him.

I wanted him to like me. And eventually he broke up with the girl that he was dating at the time. And at the time, I was dating somebody else. I broke up with them to be with him and I feel really bad about it. I was 14, though. 14-year-olds don't understand what they're doing, so I can't feel too guilty about it. I got with him and it was nice at first, but there was just a lot of ridiculing in the end. I couldn't be good enough for him.

I was just this shy girl who'd been abused and he was older than me. He was like probably just a year older than me. and I wasn't touchy enough for him. Like, I wouldn't kiss him enough. I wouldn't hug him enough because I was terrified of that kind of stuff. And so in the end, he ended up breaking up with me because I didn't want to kiss him. I didn't want to hug him. I didn't want to touch him, which I get it.

But that was, it was heartbreaking. The first time I ever had a breakup, well, bad breakup, at least. And whenever stressful occurrences come in my life, I start pulling. At the time, I grew out this side of. my head because nobody liked the look but me and my mom. So I grew it out. And then I went on with life and I just kind of pulled minimally from that point on. It wasn't bad. I mostly just pulled because of texture problems, not because of stress. So I wouldn't just like twirl and yank. I only did that if I was really stressed out. And I went on through high school. Very minimal.

I stopped pulling my eyebrows, so that was good. In probably 11th grade, I stopped pulling out my eyebrows, stopped pulling out my eyelashes, and then it was just my head hair at that point. You know, not much to write home about, honestly, in high school. I started dating this person. They caused a lot of stress in my life because they had a lot of stuff going on at home. They were like being abused at home by their dad. And I'm kind of sponge. I'm like an empathy sponge. I kind of just take everybody's emotions and I gather them up and then I hold them. And that was really hard for me because I held on to that for a really long time. And I would take their stress and I would reflect it in my own life.

So I would pull and not be healthy about it. I started pinching myself at that time, just other ways to harm myself. So eventually they ran away from home and they moved into a different house with friends. So, our relationship was able to get better as soon as they got out of that house. My stress levels got better. And eventually, I graduated high school with my hair pulling at a minimum. I had months where I didn't pull, which was an amazing thing for me, especially since I'd been so horrible about it in the past.

And I was just slowly getting better. My mental health journey was getting amazing. As soon as I turned 18, I lost my insurance, though. And so I had to leave therapy. I graduated therapy. And I went on to my adult life, which it's difficult. As soon as I turned 18 and I graduated, we went on to a road trip. And on that road trip, I got into a car accident with them in the car.

I flipped my car seven times. Oh, my gosh. I did. I was going to Zion National Park. because I live in Utah. Okay. And it's like six-hour drive from where I live. And I was, like, I just wanted to go straight there.

Like, I didn't really want to stop anywhere. And I should have because there was something wrong with my tire. My tire blew out. And I was, I panicked and I just lost control over the car. It flipped seven times. That's what the witnesses said. I don't know if it was that many. Did you get badly injured?

I got pretty injured, not horribly. I had to get eight staples in the house. back of my head. And I got a pretty bad concussion. Yeah. At least that's all it was. I was pretty okay. They weren't okay though. They hurt their back permanently. And I feel a lot of guilt relating to that. I still have that guilt kind of sitting with me because I know that I didn't cause the car accident to happen, but I was also the one driving the car. So I held on to that. And every time I saw their back hurt, I would just feel the guilt pains and I'd start pulling out my hair. Which, by the way, eight staples in the head.

Your hair gets so many stabs in it, which was horrible for my trichitaillomania because it caused so many texture issues in my head. Right. Just I was sitting there just picky pulling out the scabs in my hair. And it was con. It was bad. I'd have like chunks of hair falling out with the scabs and stuff. It was so gross. It did horrible things for my hair.

It's better now. Yeah, I wouldn't know. It looks great. You got some nice thick hair. I have very thick hair. I actually have a lot of bald spots right now, but you want to be able to tell. I hide them pretty well. So, yeah, with that stress and anxiety, I started pulling out my hair again.

I haven't been pole-free since. Since then, I have not gone a single day without pulling out my hair. So it's an everyday thing? It's an everyday thing now. It is. And would you say there's parts of the day that it's more, that it occurs more than others? Mostly when I'm bored. Okay.

When I don't have anything to do, I just kind of mindlessly go for the hair. Got it. And before bed, you said you'll do it a lot at night? Before bed. Not as bad. I don't stay up for hours and pluck. Instead, I just kind of sit there and I'll just like watch TikTok or YouTube on my phone and just kind of pull mindlessly, not even really thinking about it.

So now it's kind of more of a mindless activity than it is a stress-filled activity, which is progress, I guess. Yeah. It's not great. Are you in therapy? I am in therapy. I have an amazing therapist. So when did you go back?

Because I know that you said you graduated from another one at 18, right? Yes. Okay. So I got a job, obviously. And then I was able to start doing therapy. I started doing better help. And I met an amazing therapist on there. She's amazing.

I love her so much. And she's actually qualified for trichotillomania, which is amazing. So I finally got the help that I need, which I've needed for a very long time. And she has helped so much. So I don't stress like handful poll anymore. Instead, it's just the individual stuff. And she's helped me learn that even though I struggle with this disorder, that I'm fine, I'm normal, a lot of people suffer with this disorder and they just don't talk about it. Yeah, I was going to say since she specializes it, was she able to give you some more insight on it at all?

Yeah, definitely. So I actually started a blog for Trichotillomania. And I met a lot of people like me who suffer. And I was able to talk to a lot of people who deal with the same things as I do. And it was really helpful. And there's a lot of people in that community. And those are just the people who are brave enough to tell their story and talk about it. And there's a subreddit that I read it, Trichotillomania.

I go on there a lot. And there's so many people, similar stories. They're all doing amazing. They talk all about it. And it's just so nice to see because it's comforting. It's really comforting just to have other people because I felt so alone. I felt so alone ever, like until I found that one YouTuber who did those comedy sketches. And then I felt alone because I never knew anybody in my life who had it until I got onto the internet.

And I started talking to other people with the same experiences. Well, like you said, too, nobody ever wants to feel like something's wrong with them or like they're not. I mean, look, nobody's normal. No. But nobody wants to feel like they're intentionally or not even or unintentionally too, like not even aware of it. But doing something that's either harming themselves or that like not everyone else is doing. You know what I mean? And then it's being pointed out.

Yeah. And, you know, other students and teachers are like me, you know what I mean? It's just like no one wants to feel targeted about something that they're not even. fully understanding, I guess, within themselves, if that makes sense. Yeah. So I think it's really important. And like I said, comforting to have a community and people that you can talk to that not, even if their reasoning or the core deep issue might not be the same, they understand how you feel and what you're going through.

Yeah, exactly. It's really nice. So my therapist has helped a lot in that department. And I kind of have come to the realization that there is no curing, catillomania for me. Do they say that it can be cured at all? Some people can. Some people have cured it. I don't exactly know how that works for them. Maybe it's more so like a management. So yeah, there is such thing as habit reversal therapy, which I have heard helps because at some point, pulling your hair just becomes a habit. Like I said, I just do it mindlessly without thinking about it.

I compare it to people who bite their nails. Sometimes people just bite their nails without thinking about it. And I think it's pretty similar. Okay. So habit reversal therapy is amazing for that. I haven't done it personally. I've just kind of come to the realization, but it's just never going to go away from me, which is okay. I can live with that. Well, it seems like too, like you go through phases of times when it might be better or worse. Yeah. And I think that the older you get and the more that you're in therapy and you kind of work through the traumas of your past, you'll kind of be able to dictate, okay, this is a time of my life that I'm feeling more stressed. So I need to be more aware that I might start pulling my hair more. You know what I mean? Like you kind of become more

aware of it and maybe even within yourself can help yourself manage it a little bit. And it takes time. You know what I mean? It's not something that like is going to be like, okay, just stop. I think that that's what some people might be confused about is they might think, well, you don't have to do it. They don't know what's going on within your mind and what is really causing it. You know what I mean? That's the number one thing that I wish people understood about tricketelemania is that it's not something you can just stop. Right. It's almost like a coping mechanism that you don't fully have control over. It is. And you just get these urges to do it and they don't go away. So out of curiosity, did your therapist say anything about medication? Like has it ever been tested with medication?

to see if it would help? No. I actually did get put in, like, this study for trichotillomania at one point. I don't know if there is any medicines that really help other than just, like, your basic anxiety medications. I was going to say, it makes me wonder if, like, an CBD medication would be helpful at all. Yeah. I have my basic anxiety medications.

I also have Xanax for the really bad times. Zanix helps, but that's more when I'm just panicky. So medication for me, just a little bit of. doesn't really help with it. It's more I need to be mindful about it. I need to like sit there and I have to be like, okay, I'm really stressed out right now. And I need to be aware of where my hands are. I have to be focused on what they are doing. Yeah. And in a way, almost too, maybe you'll find down the road or even now maybe you've found this that when you're feeling more stress, like because you have to be more aware of that stress because of like the hair pooling,

it could help you kind of tackle that stress on, like break then and there, rather than kind of burying it or just being like pushing it to the side. You know, like it amos might force you in a way, in a positive way, to tackle your mental health in that moment. You have to be really aware of it. And it's good to ride the emotion instead of bottling it because bottling it never helped. And so what I know really helps me is that I need to just sit there and I need to ground myself. I need to just feel the emotion and I need to feel where it takes me. It's a journey. It's like a roller coaster.

You just kind of, you got to sit down and you just got to let it happen to you, which is hard because not a lot of people want to do that. Yeah, and it's something that you still are dealing with and you're still very much in it. Yeah, and sometimes it's never when you want it to happen. It's never when you want it to happen. It's always in the worst situations. Right. But you just kind of got to be mindful of it and you just got to let it happen to you.

So to this day, I'm still polling, not as bad. I've been really stressed out recently. I went through a bad breakup. Just had a lot of things going on. So the polling hasn't been amazing. I got a new job recently. New jobs suck. They're so stressful.

So stress has just been really high in that department. But I'm trying to manage it as best as I can. And you still post with the blog, right? I lost the password to the blog. Oh, my gosh. Are you going to start a new one? I might. You should.

Yeah. I mostly just stay on the subreddit and I give people advice when they ask for it. That's what I do. Because I think too, like if you ever felt inclined to like start another one, it could even just be like a good therapeutic way for yourself to just get your thoughts out. Right. And I mean, who knows? Like, hey, by the time I post this, if you have one, and you make another one, like send it.

So I can put it in the description for people. Okay. Because I think that that would be really helpful and good for people. Okay. Yeah. I can do that. Yeah. I think you should.

especially if it's something that helps you. Yeah, it does. I mostly just did it because I wanted to meet other people who have the same disorder. Yeah, and I was going to say, you know, I think that that's why it's so important that you come on here. And I've mentioned this multiple times to people on and off the show and kind of like what you said, when you Google something, you get everything that Google tells you, which like could send you down a horrible spiral. Yeah. And it's very rare to just be able to click on a video. and listen to somebody's kind of like raw story and perspective.

So kind of like how you said you found that girl's YouTube channel. Yeah. I feel like you doing this video in a way will serve that. Yes. You know, for many other people as well. Now they can type in and find your story and your video. And that should make you feel like you're making a difference. I know, which is important.

And it's even more important that you're doing it during a month that you really struggle with. You're kind of pivoting the direction that things have been. going in. Yeah. You know? You're making the change for yourself. I am. I'm trying to set up better barriers for myself.

Yeah. I'm trying to improve my life and stuff like that. You're still so young. I am. So young. I know. You give yourself the time that you need to heal. And I know I'm not much older than you.

I'm 27. So I'm still young as well. Yes. But you go through a lot of changes as you reach like 24, 25 and then pass that. Something that I can tell you is like, if you need the time, take the time you know what I mean like you don't owe anyone anything everybody suffers from being stressed and having anxious at different times and going through different things so if you feel that you just need to take 10 or 20 steps back and just you know ground yourself and give yourself

that break give yourself that break yeah yeah because I think people need that more than they think like we're so hard on ourselves to keep going and to be perfect and this and that and like we're so worried about the outside world and what people think and what we're supposed to do. But like, the most important thing is your health, your mental health, your physical health. So that's what you should prioritize. You know, and it seems that you've done a really good job of keeping up with your mental health. You know, obviously you've gone through different therapists, but I'm glad that you found one now that specializes in this and that can kind of help, you know, give you a better understanding

and help you understand things that you can do, you know, for yourself to kind of. have managed things better. And, you know, obviously it takes so much courage to come on here and share what you've been through and then also share about a very vulnerable, multiple vulnerable experiences throughout your life. So you should give yourself a lot of credit for that. Yeah. That's a lot of strength and courage to do. So good job. Yeah. It's nice to be the voice that people are looking for. Well, also it's going to say you're now the voice that you needed yourself years ago. Yes. It's just not a very discussed topic. And it needs more people talking about it because so many people struggle with it and they probably don't even realize

what's going on. And like why. Like they might do it and they might not know why. They might not think about like, oh, did something happen years ago or in my childhood that kind of like kickstarted this. Right. And that could be the answer, but it could also just be it's something you have. Yeah, that's true too. It could be something you're born with. It could just because of OCD. And I think that the more research and the more it is brought to awareness for people, the more information, obviously, that will come out about it.

Yes, definitely. Kind of learn to understand more like, okay, are there different forms and different reasons why this kind of comes out in people when it does? Well, it's just not as researched because it's not as harmful. Like, obviously, if, They focus on, like, cutting and other forms of self-harm that are actually putting your body through the wringer and not stuff like this because it's not as much as a priority. But I feel like it should be more of a priority because there are so many people who actually do have this disorder. It's insane how many people have it.

Just normal everyday people. Everybody has it. Not everybody. A lot of people have it. and they just don't even realize. Yeah. Well, you did amazing. Thank you.

Is there anything else that you wanted to include or do you think you got it all? I think I'm good. I think I got it. Thank you so much. Seriously. You did it a great job and I'm so happy that you wanted to come on and share your story with all of us. I appreciate it. Great.

Thank you so much for having me. Of course, of course.