We're All Insane - Addicted to Self-Harm

Episode Date: August 14, 2023

CW: This episode contains descriptions of SH. Self-harm addiction involves recurrent, intentional self-inflicted injuries as a response to emotional distress. This repetitive behavior serves as a temporary relief mechanism for inner turmoil. Overcoming self-harm addiction necessitates recognizing triggers, seeking professional assistance, and exploring alternative coping methods. Therapeutic interventions and support networks play crucial roles in the recovery process. The journey towards wellness entails adopting healthier strategies to manage emotions and break the harmful cycle. If you or someone you know is grappling with self-harm addiction, know that effective help is available to foster healing and mental well-being. Resources: https://www.crisistextline.org/help-for-self-harm/ https://www.selfinjury.bctr.cornell.edu/resources.html https://twloha.com/find-help/help-by-topic/self-injury/ If you have a unique story you'd like to share on the podcast, fill out this form: https://forms.gle/ZiHgdoK4PLRAddiB9 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, it's me Devorah. I just dropped an all new bonus episode inside my new subscription channel, We're All Insane Plus. This week's bonus episode is called My Brain was slipping into my spine. Listen now by subscribing to We're All Insane Plus inside your Spotify or Apple Podcasts app or go to we're all insane.com. This episode contains content that may be disturbing to some viewers. Hi, I'm Ellie and I was addicted to self-harm. I guess I will start in the beginning because that's a good place to start. Growing up, I had a great childhood, great parents. They're middle school sweethearts.

And they've been dating ever since. They are still married, like, in love. That's so sweet. And I have got a younger brother and a younger sister. I'm the oldest. And, like, my entire family is great. Like my aunts, my uncles, like my grandparents were all really close. So I never had any like family issues growing up, which a lot of people assume if you struggle with like mental health and stuff, like maybe you don't come from a great background.

That wasn't the case. We weren't poor, but we weren't rich. We were like middle class. Like my dad, he's a, he works in the ministry and my mom's a baker. So, yeah, they're pretty great. Yeah, I guess I didn't like, I was normal, healthy all throughout elementary school. And then I would say in fifth grade, that's when things started to change a little bit. I noticed my mood started to go down, but I literally had no idea why.

Did you just feel like sad? Yeah, like I would just lay on the ground and stare at the ceiling after school. like just all the entire rest of the afternoon. But I had no idea like what depression was or anything. Like I just wasn't sheltered from it, but like I wasn't exposed to it. I mean also you were so young too. Yeah. And I wouldn't, yeah, I didn't really know what that was.

Like my idea of mental illness was like a cartoon character rocking back and forth in like a padded room, you know? And yeah, I was also. a very angsty preteen, like I would talk back to my parents all the time. Like I was not fun to be around. And I always thought I was right, which I feel like every preteen kind of acts like that. And yeah, whenever I would get in trouble, I would like, you know, they would like take my Lego set away or something. And I would like fight it. And I would like talk back the entire time. and so then they'd be like, okay, you're not losing it for a day, you're losing it for two days now.

And I would continue fighting it. And then eventually it'd be like, you're losing your Legos for a week. And then I would be like obviously upset by that because I could have lost them for a day. But of course, I had to be stubborn. So then I lost them for a week. So like just like that situation. And I think this is kind of when my self-destructive behavior started because I would like stomp up the stairs and then like slam my door but then catch it before it slammed. I wouldn't get in trouble for slamming the door.

And then I would like take a pillow off the bed and like throw it across the room. Like, you know, when you're angry, you would. But for me, that like didn't get rid of the feeling of like just frustration. Right. And so I would, I like started hitting my legs and like scratching myself. I didn't know that was a bad thing. I thought I invented it. I thought I was really creative.

And yeah, it was just kind of something I did. did when I was angry, instead of throwing stuff across the room, whatever. Like, did that make you feel better when you would do that? Yeah, it felt like I was like, because I could physically feel the result of my anger. So it kind of, like, satisfied it for some reason. Okay. And, yeah, I remember one time I did that in front of my dad. Like I like hit my leg when I was in trouble and he was like, what are you doing?

You can't do that. Like don't do that. And I was like, what do you mean? And he's like, you can't do that. And so like I started hiding it. Also, I did not know what self-harm was. Like I was. Like that was just your way to wear.

Yeah. Get out of your frustration. Yeah. Also, another thing I want to say is like any level. of self-harm is like you should probably get help any level of it. It doesn't matter like how intense or anything. Like I needed help when I was just hitting my leg versus later on when it became more intense. So really any level needs help. It's all valid. Right. Because in a way like that's how it started for you. Yeah. And it's a progression just like any other addiction is.

Like it progresses and you really don't have control over it even if you think. think you do. Sixth grade came around and I decided to be like really anxious about school. Like I hyped up sixth grade in my head and I would like freak out. I would wake up at 5.30 every single day even though my school started at like 8.15. I would wake up at 5.30. get ready, like really fast, and then I would just sit on the couch and like wait because I was so scared of being late to school. And then I would like yell at my siblings because, of course, they rolled out of bed like 10 minutes before school because that's what you do. And I would just get so anxious about it. So I stopped eating breakfast because I thought if I ate breakfast, then I wouldn't have time to get to school.

And I also, I struggled with an eating disorder, but I'm not going to get too much into that because that would be a whole other conversation. Yeah. But it does, like, correlate some. I, yeah, I struggled more with depression and anxiety. I would, like, wake up in the middle of the night in sixth grade and just, like, pace around my room, worried about my two math assignments that I had. was still hitting myself when I was upset and also when I was like sad and I think it progressed from like hitting myself

to using scissors in sixth grade once again didn't know anything I thought I invented this concept because I like cut my nails one day and so like scratching myself like was not doing it And so that's when I started using scissors. So it's a progression, for sure. And were you using the scissors, like, on your legs or?

My arms. Okay. Mm-hmm. But, like, it wasn't, like, necessarily drawing blood. Mm-hmm. It was just kind of superficial. Right. Like, it would, the scratch would, like, fade in, like, a day.

Got it. So I really didn't have that much to hide. Mm-hmm. But I would still, like, wear a cardigan and stuff. Um, and then. Yeah, my eating disorder also progressed, but it was like all accidental. Like I wasn't like consciously. Yeah.

Being like, okay, I'm not going to eat. It just kind of happened. Right. Because of like the anxiety and stuff. And then also I got grossed out by the school cafeteria food. And so I was like, I'm not putting this in my mouth. Right. So I stopped eating lunch too.

And then my parents, they both are very athletic. And they have great relationship. with food, like, I couldn't have asked for better. But they are also runners. And so they wanted me and my brother to be fit as well. Like, not, like, pressuring me to be athletic. They just wanted me to, like, do a sport. Yeah, be active.

Yeah. So my choices were cheerleading or cross-country. I didn't want to do cheer. So I did cross-country. And so I was not eating lunch or breakfast, and then I would go run. And so I would eat dinner. but my dinner would consist of like little Debbie cakes. Like I would just stuff my face at the end of the day.

This kind of continued out throughout middle school, I would say. You know, seventh grade sucks. I feel like it sucks for everybody. Yeah. And there's a lot of like friend drama because there always is. And so I started using self-harm to cope with that. I would say between 6th and 7th grade was when I figured out that like self-harm was actually a concept and that I didn't invent it.

How did you figure that out? I stumbled across this random YouTube video. Like I don't even know how I stumbled across it. But it was about this girl and she was talking about how she had been self-harming and her school saw. and then it was reported to the school and she got like sent away to like a mental hospital and that freaked me out because I was like okay so I'm crazy

and no one can find out about this because I'll be sent away and my parents will find out and my entire family who I love and I don't want them to know this about me so it kind of like freaked me out yeah and

the depression got worse an eighth grade. And my depression is genetic, which I didn't find out until later, that it does run in my family, like, pretty strongly. Also addiction. Like, my grandparents, great uncles, like the upper part of my family struggled a lot with alcoholism. My dad has never drank a sip of alcohol in his life, not because he's like, oh, it's a sin, but because he knows that he would be an alcoholic. Right, like the history of it. Yeah. So he does, drink alcohol at all. My mom will drink like a truly or whatever.

Yeah. Yeah. And there's also been like suicide in my upper family. Not anyone I've known because that was before I was born. But just like a history of mental illness that I didn't find out about until later. Yeah. And eighth grade, it progressed. I started using pencil sharpeners.

was hiding it, was mortified of getting caught, mortified, like my biggest fear. And I had a really close friend in seventh grade and eighth grade. I'm going to call her Kate. And Kate got really close with this other girl, and I'm going to call her Jamie. So Kate and Jamie got really close in eighth grade. And so I didn't want to lose Kate. Kate, so, like, I joined their friend group. And it was becoming a lot for me to hold in.

And so I, like, wanted to let them, like, tell them. And so I did. I had a hard time, like, verbally saying the words, like, I self-harm or, like, I cut myself. Like, I couldn't say it out loud. And I, like, was like, guys, I have something to tell you. And Kate was just like, is it that you cut yourself? And I was like, um, yeah, maybe. So they already knew.

Yeah, they figured out the summer between like college, or not college, high school and eighth grade. But they promised they wouldn't tell as long as I tried to stop and all that stuff. I was like, yeah, yeah. Because I didn't think it was going to be an issue. I was like, I can stop. It's fine. It was not fine. It became something that I went from, I was doing it maybe like once a month.

to like every week, to like every few days, to in ninth grade, I started doing it maybe like three to five times a day. Hey, I'm Jeremy Schwartz from American Criminal. On this season, robbery gone wrong or cold-blooded murder. Either way, Boston will never be the same. Listen to American Criminal, the murder of Carol Stewart, wherever you get your podcasts. Or to get early ad free access, subscribe. Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or at Americancriminal.com. And then did it kind of escalate from being something that you would do when you were

like sad or angry to just doing it just because? Yeah, it really did. There would be some mornings where it'd be the first thing I did when I woke up. And it's like weird for like people who don't understand to like try to understand why. But it does release like, what's the word? chemicals or whatever in your brain to make you feel better. Yeah. So it is addictive.

And I also struggled a lot with dissociating in ninth grade. Like I just like didn't feel grounded ever. And so that was something that helped me like kind of ground myself. Yeah, I would carry around like this little container in my pocket that had blades in it. and like some band-aids in my pocket at school. And like some days I would go to the bathroom and do that at school. Like it, I was relying on it. There was not a day that went by that I didn't do that.

Yeah. And I, like, tried hiding it from my friends, but every once in a while I'd be like, yeah, I'm kind of struggling with it. And they kept saying, you need to tell somebody, like, someone needs to know, which I knew that. Like if I was my friend in that situation, like I would have done the same thing. Right. You need to tell someone like this is not good. And I was never suicidal or anything, which is another thing people often think is like if you self-harm, you're probably suicidal.

Like you want to die. I never wanted to die. I just didn't feel good all the time. And that was one thing that helped me feel better. Right. It was like your way of like coping with life in a way. Yeah. Because I never, I never drank.

I have never still, like I've never drunk before. my friends, they'll drink every once in a while, but they don't let me drink because I have a very addictive personality. Right. And I've never done drugs or anything like that. But this was my form of that, which I didn't realize at the time, but it's pretty similar to, you know, coping with alcohol or whatever. But it's also harder to stay away from because it's your own body. Right.

That's your coping mechanism. And you can, like, avoid alcohol, but you can't avoid, like, yourself. Right. It's, like, more accessible, almost, too. Yeah. And towards the end of, like, in December, near Christmas break of freshman year, it was the last day of school before midterm exams. And my two friends were acting kind of weird that day.

And I was just kind of playing it off, like joking around with them, like, y'all are you're hiding something? And I got called into the office last block. And I was like freaking out. Because I had always freaked out whenever an intercom got caught. Because I was so like, I had built up in my head that you're going to get sent away like you're going to, you're crazy. Like if the school finds out from that. video that I watched in sixth grade, I was still thinking about it. So I remember I was walking to the front office and during this time I was telling myself like while I was walking, you're being

ridiculous. Like there's no need to be anxious. Like this is just something stupid. There's no way they found out. Like stop freaking out about it. And I went to the office and they were like, yeah, I go to the school counselor. I was like, you're freaking out. They probably just needed to sign something. Don't be anxious. And when I got there, she was like, have a seat. And I was like, okay, this is not good. And she told me that my two, she didn't mention who it was, but I had only told two people. So she was like, yeah, some of your friends came forward and they're concerned about that you're self-harming.

And I was like, yeah, maybe, kind of struggling with that. She told me later that I literally looked like a ghost. Like I had gone completely pale, which I'm already pale, but like I had gone like, white. Yeah. You were in ninth grade? Yes. I was like 14, 15. Um, and they called my parents in like right then. And my parents came and sat down on the couch with me. And she told my parents and my mom was like holding me and like crying. And my dad was just like, okay, what do we need to do next? So you don't think your parents have any idea? No, they had no idea that I was struggling with anything. It like broke my parents. And the main reason I didn't want them to know,

it's not because I was afraid they were going to be upset. I mean, they weren't going to be angry. I knew that. But it was because I knew they would be hurt by it. Right. Because they loved me so much. And that it would really hurt them if they knew I was doing that to myself. Because my dad's the type of dad, like didn't want to get, didn't want me to get my ears pierced because he didn't want, like, damage to be done to me. And he, he's the type of dad. And he, got upset whenever I would scrape my knee. Yeah. So that was like really overwhelming for them.

And what's like kind of ironic about all of this is the entire time I was sitting in the office like getting caught. I had my blades in my back pocket and my band-aids in my back pocket. Like that's really weird to think about now. And yeah, they told me I couldn't come back to school. unless I went to like a few different doctors and got cleared for suicide risk because that was a liability. And then also I had to go to four mandatory therapy sessions. And so I did.

We ended up going to like five different doctors because I kept getting denied. They kept telling me we can't clear you like you're a liability. Like if you like do kill yourself, then we'll like get sued. Really? Yeah. This was therapist or? No, this was doctors. Okay.

But then, like, where would you get help then? Yeah, so we went to a bunch of different places, like a bunch of different doctors cares and stuff. Yeah. Because I had midterm exams the next day. Like, did they want you to go to, like, a mental hospital instead of just... No. So they just wanted me to, like, the doctors to be like, yeah, you're good. You're not going to kill yourself.

Okay. And then I also had to go to therapy, like, for mandatory sessions. Okay. So the doctors didn't want to just clear you. Yeah, they didn't want to clear me because they weren't. yeah, I don't know. Yeah. But when I finally did get cleared, it was like really not a fun experience because they made me like stripped down and they like looked at all of my self-injury.

And then they were like, okay, yeah, you're not going to kill yourself. Like, you're good. And then I could take my midterm exams. So, and I was, this is a weird dynamic, but I was not mad at my friends, but I also was. like I knew why they did that and I knew that if I was in their situation I would do the exact same thing. But also at the same time, it's kind of like a betrayal still. Yeah. Because it's like your secret and like your trust still got betrayed.

So I was hurt but also not angry but also angry all at once. But they were afraid that I was. I was never going to speak to them again. But we like rekindled like two days later. It was fine. We're not friends anymore, but not because of this situation, just other stuff. Yeah. So I didn't, I stopped self-harming like then because I was scared that I was like going to get caught and sent away.

Yeah, like you didn't want to. Yeah. Like I didn't want to like I was on my last straw type situation. And at this point was, did you have like a lot of. scars on your body? No. So at this point throughout middle school, I, this is another thing, I thought I was so smart. I was like, if I just do a bunch of like more superficial self-injury, then it won't scar

and no one will ever know, which changed later. But so at this point, I had some, but not much. Okay. And I wasn't self-harming on my arms anymore. It was more so my hips because in the summer, all I have to do is wear shorts with my swim suit and no one would ever know. It was easier to hide. Yeah, I could just say I was being modest.

Yeah, so it was pretty, it wasn't that hard to hide at this point. I avoided my parents for a while after that because they really wanted to have like a deep conversation with me. I was like not having it. So I would not stay alone with them. Like if my mom was in the kitchen, I would not go in the kitchen unless one of my siblings was there because I didn't want them to be like, let's talk. I just didn't want to do that.

Yeah, and during this point, my eating disorder got pretty bad, so I kind of switched coping mechanisms over. I had been struggling with my eating. And eating disorders are another thing that are genetic in my family. Like my mom had one in college, which I didn't know until later, but that's another thing. And I was never, like, overweight or anything. I was, I'm a small person. I'm a 5-1. but it just kind of was a control thing

uh yeah during the summer between sophomore and freshman year i was not not thriving um i wouldn't drink water because i was afraid if i drank water that i would bloat like i was shoplifting diet pills um and taking like way more than i I should. It gave me a permanent, like, hand tremor that I still have from, like, all of the, you know, like whatever's in there. Who knows what's in those. And, yeah, I just was scared to eat. I wouldn't, I was scared to drink water to take my diet pills because it would make me blow. Like, I just was not in a good space.

That continued throughout the summer. Sophomore year was the worst year of my high school experience. So my friend, so this was in 2020 at this point. So 2020 was the end of freshman year, the beginning of sophomore year for me. And we did go back to in person. at the end, like sophomore year. But we were all wearing like masks. Right.

And it was like borders between desks and stuff. But we did go back in person. And my friend Kate, she was struggling a lot with anxiety. She always had really bad anxiety, which I don't have anxiety anymore. Like it was just that one like sixth grade moment where I was anxious, but I don't have anxiety. but she was really anxious and it would make her like nauseous and she like had a really hard time coming to school and so like in the middle of that the fall of sophomore year she decided that she was going to do online because we had the option if you wanted to do online you could and she was like I'm only

going to do it for two weeks like I will be back two weeks later I'm going to do it for a few more weeks Like, I'm going to be back, don't worry. And it just kept going on. She never came back. She came back junior year, but she never came back sophomore year. And I was, like, so worried about her. I guess I was anxious about her. But I was, like, very worried about her.

Because she wouldn't, like, hang out with anybody. She really wouldn't communicate. I was the only person that she texted. my other friends would tell me that. They're like, yeah, she doesn't respond to me, but me and her would text. And I was sort of like her closest friend during that time. Yeah, I relapsed in self-harm at this point. And at this point, it was more intense.

And I still have scars like all over because of that. And it was because I was sad because of, I'm, She almost said her real name, Kate. But also, it was just kind of a habit. Yeah. There was a lot of times where I did it for no reason other than to just do it, which is weird. But it was just, it had been such a part of my life for like four years at that point. So it was habit.

And she and I, so I do Ariel Silks. And me and her would do that together. we would do like a class a week and that would be the only time i would see her since she didn't come to school and she got like really skinny because of her anxiety because she would throw up because she was anxious and all that um and that that like freaked me out i was super worried for her but also my eating disorder really like got triggered by that Because I was like, she's losing weight. Like, I need to lose weight, like, which is messed up, but, you know, eating disorders are messed up.

And, yeah, so I started purging at this point. Not consistently, just like every once in a while. And then I was really just not having a great time. So I told my parents, I was like, I want to be put on medication. Did you tell them that you were cutting again? No. I never told them. There was never been a time where I outright told them I'm cutting again.

They've always just kind of found out. Yeah. But yeah, I didn't tell them that. And so I got put on medication pretty quickly. The dose got upped. I'm still on it. And was that just for your depression? Yeah, just antidepressants.

I don't know if it necessarily sent me into a manic phase. I'm not quite sure how that works. But like I was off the walls when I got put on at first. Now I'm fine. But initially the first like month or two, I was making decisions and choices and doing things that I would not usually do. it was a stressful last few months of sophomore year. I got caught for cheating on a Spanish test, which everyone was cheating on,

but that was when I got caught. So my parents were mad about that. And then there was this guy, and his name is Jake for this. His fake name. Yeah, his fake name's Jake. And he and I were like really close family friends. And he lived in my neighborhood. He would hang out with my younger brother and I.

My brother was only like two years younger than me. His younger sisters were really close with my sister. Our parents were really close. We would go on family vacations together. I had known him forever. He was in my grade at school. And I just kind of saw him as like a cousin. and I never I never saw him like oh you're cute like I never saw him like that because

the way he would talk about girls it just kind of icked me out like he was always like really lovey-dovey about the girls he liked and I never liked that and so I never viewed him like that um and I would say from January sophomore year to like May looking back, there was a lot of signs that he was trying to, like, have sex with me that I just didn't see because why would I think that, you know? Right. And you weren't viewing him that way. No, yeah. And we were always hanging out with my brother. Like, it was never, like, me and him. It wasn't like that. It was more so that, like, I was third wheeling their friendship,

almost. And he would, he was just weird. He would say like sex, yes or no. But not like asking me if I wanted to have sex, just saying sex, yes or no. But he would say it like in front of my brother. And so I was just like, does he mean just the concept of sex? And so I'd always be like, yes. And like my brother would be there too and be like,

Yeah. And I just thought it was weird. And then he just started asking like, yes or no. And I'd be like, I don't know. And then I would find like notes around my room that said yes or no that he had left in my room. So that was weird. And I just thought he was odd because he was like kind of quirky. He told me later, like after, but I didn't know at the time that. We had gone on a family vacation in January to go skiing. He and we had stayed in two separate condos like right next to each other. He had snuck into my condo in the middle of the night and I was sleeping on the couch and he had tried to wake me up. But like I was zonged. Like I was not waking up because he wanted to have sex with me. In the middle of the night he like snuck into my condo, which is creepy to think about it. Yeah.

And he told you that? He did tell me that. He told me that thinking it was like romantic. And I was like, okay. Right. That's not normal. So in May, he had a girlfriend also this entire time. He had a girlfriend.

So I was also not thinking that he was trying to flirt with me because he has a girlfriend, you know? And I've known him since I was like five. in May towards the school year He He lives in my neighborhood He lives like three minutes Like driving He was like I'm coming over to your house

My parents weren't there at the time It was just me and my younger sister And I was like, okay, it's 10 o'clock at night He drives up, I'm in my pajamas He tells me to get in the car I do because I trust him and then he like pulls over in this random parking lot and he like tries to do stuff with me and I didn't say no but I was like I got to go like my parents are coming home like I just made up

excuses I was afraid to say like stop or no because I my mindset was if I said that that would make things awkward because we're family friends. But I like quickly told him I was like my parents are coming home like we have to go. So I kind of interrupted it. It was not mutual. He

took me back home, dropped me off. Our parents found out because he had been texting me beforehand really suspicious stuff but I just wasn't aware. Like he asked me my top three people and I was like I don't know what you're talking about he's like top three people

you would hook up with I was joking around I was like oh like the homeless person down the street or the random person like I was just joking yeah said like random people obviously a joke he said number one and he put a random like emoji and then number two his girlfriend and then number three get another girl in our grade. And once again, thinking he was joking. We had a joke that he had a crush on Zach Ephron. So I was like, oh my God, I knew it. You're in love with Zach Efron. He was talking about me. And he told me that later. But so his parents read those texts and saw him say like, I'm coming over. And they told my parents. And so then our parents freaked out I was so like uncomfortable with a situation that I didn't actually tell them what happened.

He said nothing happened. He said like nothing happened. That was not true. But I was just like, yeah, nothing happened because I didn't want to say. I just figured it'd make things more complicated. Well, our entire school finds out. I don't really know how, but they do. And he was pretty popular.

Like, I went to a private school. So it was pretty small. I graduated with the class of like 100 people. It wasn't like small, small, but it was a pretty small school. And he was pretty popular friends with all the guys. Everyone liked him. He was really charismatic. Obviously, his girlfriend was upset.

and she broke up with him, which is funny now because me and her are not best friends. That was funny. Yeah. But at the time, she hated me. She thought I was like a whore, which I had not even held hands with the guy at that point. I had my first kiss in sixth grade, but it really didn't count. It was like truth or dare. Yeah.

So really innocent. I was really innocent. And, yeah, he told everyone. just the most creative lies you've ever heard. He told everyone that I forced him to come over to my house and that I had gone to the store and bought condoms. Did not do that. That was you because you were the one that pulled out condoms

while we were sitting in the car. He said that I had slept with a bunch of people before and that I was like a sex addict. and he told everyone that I had slept with 26 people and everyone believed him and I had an innocent reputation beforehand it's not like I had this wild

I was a pretty quiet person you know just went under the radar but everyone was like yeah for sure like I'm so sorry Jake or whatever I named him Like that sucks. You lost your girlfriend and you got manipulated.

Like that's horrible. She's like really manipulative. Which looking back, I'm like, why did everyone believe him? Because that's, it doesn't sound real. Yeah. None of it was believable. And so everyone hated me. His girlfriend hated me like everybody.

And I, during that time, I was, I never stopped. self-harming, but it got more intense during that time. And I started cutting places I don't normally do, which left and result more obvious scars, which before I would keep it contained to just my hips. But it spread more. And that was a pretty rough end of the school year. My parents kept trying to have talks with me, like, asked me what happened. I didn't want to to talk about it. They were upset, then mad at me, and I just shut it all out. Yeah. So that's summer, for some reason, during this, like my high school and middle school experience, summer was always the time where I relapsed with my eating disorder. So that

happened during the summer. Then junior year, I'm going to be honest, I literally don't remember junior year. Like, I don't remember a thing about it. Nothing really substantial happened. I was pretty seriously self-harming, but for really no reason, just because. And so the summer between senior and junior year, I had some pretty severe self-harm scars all over my legs. And my parents knew that I had relapsed every once in a while. They knew that. They knew I had scars.

But I didn't want them to see them. Because one time, yeah, one time between sophomore and junior year, my dad, like, I was tanning and I didn't have my shorts on. And he saw the scars of my hip. And it, like, broke his heart. And he didn't intend to be so. dramatic about it, but he's a human and it really hurt him. He like didn't eat all day long. Like he was super like heartbroken about it. And so after that, I was like, I'm not letting them

see my scars ever. So the outfits I wore between junior and senior year summer were very unique. Like I was wearing anything I could to cover my legs. And where I live, like, it's hot. Right. It is hot. And I would wear pants to the beach. I would not go to the beach. I avoided a lot of family situations because I didn't want them to see.

My mom kept buying me like creams and stuff for it, but none of those really worked. And senior year, which was the, this last school year, I didn't relapse, but the summer between junior and senior year, I did outpatient treatment for my eating disorder because I have an addictive personality, so I replace one coping mechanism with another. So I stopped self-harming between, I think this was junior year, but I started like purging a lot more and restricting. And so basically you were just going back and forth. Yeah, it really just went back and forth.

Or I would self-harm if I was mad at myself for eating something. Like it really connected in a lot of ways. And was there any reason that like there would be a shift or it really just depended? It just depended. Okay. I, like you go through phases sometimes. Yeah, it was weird. And then I would go through phases where I would restrict really heavily.

And then I would go through phases where I would. binge and purge really heavily. And that was also a phase that kind of went through. And I went to a summer camp between junior and senior year. And I was supposed to be there for a month working. And I had to leave two weeks in because I was spiraling with my eating because camp food is not necessarily the healthiest. I, it was just a hard situation, like having your food you don't have control over what you're eating like you just get sat at a table and they give you your food that you're going to eat um i was like sneaking away and like purging during that so i called my mom and this was the first time i'd ever been like mom i'm not good because before they just kind of

figured it out i was like i don't think i can stay here for another two weeks that would not be a good idea. And she was like, okay, you're currently in Colorado. And we're going to have to get you a plane flight back here. And she trusted me. She didn't make a big deal out of it. She booked a plane ticket. I navigated the Denver airport by myself. And I went back home and I went into an outpatient treatment. And I had a lot of like Zoom therapy sessions, Zoom, all that stuff. It was that strictly just for the eating? Yeah. This entire time I had like everyone convinced that I had only like relapsed once sophomore year, which in reality it was like every few months at this point that I relapsed and then did it pretty consistently then stopped. And then it was

just kind of like a cycle. I would say senior year was probably the year that I focused most on recovering. I started a new medication for ADHD. It's a non-stimulant because they wouldn't put me on a stimulant because my eating disorder. So it's not super intense medication, but it did lower my appetite. And so I wasn't necessarily trying to lose weight. It just kind of happened. And yeah, I didn't relapse with self-harm. I've been clean for a while. But I, so I'm going to college in the fall, so like this month. And I was cleaning out my room this summer. And I, it was really weird. Like, I was completely cleaning out my room.

And I found a bunch of stuff that my past self had, like, hidden. I found, like, pencil sharpener cases that had no sharpeners in them. I found a bottle of old pills, like diet pills. I found blades just hidden around

that I had forgotten about. And it's sad looking back because, like, I was really innocent, and I just, thought that this was okay and I didn't realize there was anything wrong with it and like a way to get through it yeah um and I had been consistently doing that for like I can't do mental math but all of high school mostly and all of middle school and so even now even though I'm clean I still will feel urges whenever slightly anything goes on like anything um any sort of extreme like emotion my first

instinct is to think about hurting myself which i haven't been doing now i just like distract myself a lot um i was going to ask you like how did you recover from that yeah honestly the main thing is i got lazy I got really lazy and it was like it became too much work to keep up with. The like the care afterwards, the hiding it, the cleanup, like all of that. I just got tired of it, even though I still wanted to do it. And in ninth grade, I would stay up to like 3 or 4 a.m. every single day, every single day and wake up at like 6. I was a night owl for sure. And it wasn't like I had insomnia.

I like purposely stayed up because I liked the quiet. But for some reason I started going to bed at like 10 or like 9.30 really early. And I would get really tired. This was like junior and senior year. And so I would have the urges to self-harm because they mainly happen at night. But I just decided I would rather go to sleep. sleep. And it kind of broke the habit accidentally. Yeah. That's so did you ever go to therapy like specifically for self-harming? Yeah. Oh I've had. Did you feel like that helped you? I've had like 12

therapists. Yeah. Mainly. Yeah. Mainly it was there was some eating disorder specialized people. there was some just depression specialized. But I keep saying like I have a curse that my therapist just like get pregnant, get married, move, graduate, all this type of stuff. So I've had a good amount of therapists and I would say it's helped. It's helped. I'm not in therapy right now because I'm about to move. But it has helped. Yeah.

Yeah, for sure. And just kind of over time. it just was something that, like you said, like it just naturally kind of broke. Right. Yeah. And I got really comfortable, like, talking about stuff. So it's pretty easy for me to talk about now. Yeah.

And I do have a lot of scars from it. And I still haven't, like, my parents don't. I haven't shown my parents or my parents have it seen. And I've managed to hide it from them for, like, three. three summers in a row. Yeah, I was going to ask you, like, now when summer and stuff does come around, like, do you feel like you have to cover it up? I feel that way around my family. Okay. Around my friends? No, I don't cover up around my friends. Okay. Um, they all know about it. It's not something, it's like not something I talk about regularly or anything. They don't mention it.

It's just kind of there. Like, like, you don't feel like a sense of like embarrassment or shame. No, I don't. Like I said, it's only around my family. I hide it. Right. But around- Protect them. Yeah, around other people or the public, I don't, it doesn't bother me because I've had them for so long. Right. That is just my skin. Every once in a while, I do get freaked out when I see, like, an old person because I'm afraid they're going to come up to me and ask about it. Yeah. I haven't, I've had people ask about it. but it hasn't happened too much because a lot of times I do wear pants or stuff during the summer.

Right. Just out of habit at this point, not even because I need to. Right. Because that's my wardrobe now. Yeah. I'm wearing pants right now. And how long has it been since you haven't? I don't know the exact amount.

I would say maybe a year. Okay. But before that, it was like waning off. Like, I didn't stop. Like, I didn't go from doing it three to five times a day to doing it never. Like, it became like once a month, once every two months. But like this is the longest. Yeah, the longest stint of like it's been like a year maybe.

Yeah. And before that, like my relapses, they counted, but like they didn't really count because like, I don't know. I didn't count them. Do you have like, do you have a fear of ever relapsing again? Yeah. It's scary going to college because I'm going to be thrown into a new atmosphere, new stressors, new people, no parents. But I think I'll be fine. I think it'll be fine.

I have pretty great friends now. My friend group is great. They know my limits. They know how to deal with me. Which is important. Yeah. You know, having that support group. Yeah.

My depression's in full remission, apparently. That's what the doctors say. So I'm not depressed, but I'm also on really high doses of medicine. But, you know, I don't know how long I'm going to have to be on them. Maybe the rest of my life, I'm not sure. Because it is genetic. Like my grandparents still struggle with stuff like that. And, yeah.

I one thing about my scars is I have a pretty like neutral view on them. They don't bother me, but they don't like I don't like them, but I don't hate them. It's just kind of my skin. I was saying they don't define you, but they always represent like where you were at one point in life. Yeah. One thing about it is that makes me upset about them is every once in all I think about like, what, what if I get a boyfriend soon? like will they throw him off or will you know like that because that's an uncomfortable topic because it really depends on the person for some people that really might throw them off.

And I think too like when you see somebody with scars like naturally you think oh my god this person is so sad. Yeah. Or going through so much. Like it's hard to see past that unless you really get to know someone and like they open up to you. Yeah. And tell you what's going on. Yeah. And a lot of people, like, when they do see them, they're like really worried.

Right. Oh my gosh. Are you going to kill yourself? I'm like, no, like I'm fine. Yeah. It's like an immediate judgment. Yeah. Not even like in a bad way, but it's like you see that and you know what's happening. It's like an association. Like you know what happened in the past and so you're worried about the person now. And it's interesting. Yeah. And it's interesting too that suicide doesn't necessarily relate to it. No. I can see definitely how those two things. It would seem that way. Right. And a lot of times it is correlated. Right.

But for a lot of people, it's not. Yeah. And like they will say I'm not suicidal, but people don't believe them. Which I get like you're being careful. Like I understand that. But I was never suicidal. Yeah. I just wanted some way to cope.

Right. And yeah, I once had a guy that I was talking to. I like, I opened up and I was like, I have self-harm scars. And I just wanted to let you know. but they're all healed, they're old, and I'm fine. And he had a fetish for that. Really? Yeah.

I didn't know that was a thing. It was. He asked me if I would cut his name into my body. And I was like, I'm leaving. Yeah. No. Well, good thing too that you had the self, like willpower to leave because I feel like that could be a person.

Yeah. That would like easily make you fall back into that. Take like a vulnerable person. person and trigger them. Like I could see how that would like bring you back into a habit. Yeah. Yeah. And I was just like.

Yeah. So that's insane. I know. And I was like, okay. Yeah. That's messed up. I'm going to go. That's great for you.

I'm leaving. So I am worried about like future boyfriends and stuff about like either being really thrown off by them or like liking them. But I think too, like you are so open about it and honest that all it's going to take is like a normal nice guy. Yeah. That is just willing to listen and understand. Because it's like I, like I said, I feel like if you were in a place where you weren't ready to open up and talk about it and you were still struggling and hiding it, I think it would be more concerning for someone or like it might throw them off or be a legal issue. Okay.

but it's like the fact that you're so open about it and honest and so well spoken about it, I feel like people would be pretty understated. Like I don't see how somebody wouldn't be because I can see why a lot of people wouldn't feel comfortable talking about it or feeling like, okay, well, if you don't do it, you don't understand. Right. So, but yeah, that's kind of my take on it. I do.

I view, I mean, I was definitely addicted to it. But I think people who don't self-harm still. have the capacity to understand. Yeah. Because it's like any other addiction. It's like drugs or alcohol. Right. Like you drink to like no longer feel a certain way or you take drugs.

Or to feel a certain way. Yeah. Right. Right. And then it starts with maybe one drink like once a week. And then it progresses. And you know it's destructive. Yeah.

If you're drinking like every day like when you wake up. Like if you're an. alcoholic. You know it's destructive. You know you're hurting your body. You know, and in the end, it does result in pain. But you're stuck in that cycle. Yeah. And I think if anyone can understand that, like you can understand what it's like to be addicted to self-harm for sure. Yeah. I think it's, it's incredible, though, that it's only been like a year and you are so open and well-spoken about it. Because I feel like too, something that is only going to help and benefit you is accepting like, okay, this is something that I have done.

This is a problem I have. This is what I've been through. But like here I am now. Right. And like, well, yeah, like it's only been a year. Like the fact that you're able to talk about it so openly and be so honest about it, I feel like says a lot. Yeah.

So I feel like for a lot of things, it takes a long time to really kind of like self-reflect. Right. And be very honest about where you are mentally and everything. So I feel like that to me shows that like you're on such a good path of recovery mentally. Like because obviously like you said there, I feel like there's things there within just genetically and within your family. Like you have an addictive personality. Yeah. But I feel like the fact that you are so self-aware and honest about it makes a big difference.

Because I feel like a lot of times it can be something where. you're not willing to admit it's a problem. Right. But I feel like the fact that you know like, okay, this is wrong. I don't really, it's not like that I want to do it. It's just something that, you know what I mean? It just, I feel like a lot of, it takes some people a long time to get to that point. It does.

And you're young, how old are you? I'm 19. Okay. We've had some young people on the show recently. Yes. No, so, yeah, I mean, you're very well spoken about it. And I, your honesty and vulnerability is something to be proud of because it's not, I mean, like I said, I feel like naturally when people see people with self-harm scars, it is an automatic judgment

or an automatic thought in their head. Yeah. And I do get that because if I saw self-harm scars on my friend, like even... It's more like a concern. Like, yeah. It's also is sad because it's a visual like image of someone hurting. Yeah. Yeah.

So even if they are healed, I do get that. It's like your body's reaction. You can't. Right. It is sad. Yeah. It's like... Right.

you immediately like feel something for it. And it does take people time to get used to it and like comfortable around self-harm scars. And I'm aware of that. But there's so many people. Yeah. A lot of people. And there's probably a lot of people too that aren't in the place you're in and still feel like they're hiding it and still feel like it's an addiction and they can't escape it yet. You know?

And I think too it's interesting that you did go back and forth between. that and the eating disorder. It's like, and all of these things are so relatable to people. Yeah. They're very. Yeah. And there's so many, right. And there's so many forms of like, of addictions and bad habits that I think that

people lean on to cope and to get through harder times in life. And I think too, like you said, people can assume that like, oh, she must have had like a bad childhood or a bad life. But sometimes like our brains, we can't always understand why they operate the way they do or why they're wired a certain way. And obviously, like you said you, your family does have a history of mental illness and things like that, which don't help. Right.

But what are you going to do? You know what I mean? Like you, all you can do is get the help you need and hope that that works for you. And I think that it's, like I said, I always say how great it is. I feel like that people are so, that come on the show are so self-aware. And I think it can really open up to help others that watch. and that listen to be like, okay, I'm not alone, but also it's not, it doesn't have to be scary to get help and to realize that there's so many other people out there that like might be feeling

a similar way than I feel or maybe this is the exact same, you know, experience I'm having. And I feel like it just really helps people not feel alone in something or like something's wrong with them. Because even if you're doing something like self-harming, like yeah, it's not, it's not right to do to your body and it's not necessarily the norm. You shouldn't be doing it. But there's people that do it and it happens and all you can do is try to help others get through that. And I feel like, like how you said you saw that YouTube video, like when you were younger, like that was one aspect of it. But like imagine if like somebody that's younger sees this video. And then like, you know what I mean? It's just like a different perspective of it of like,

I feel like it almost is comforting to know like in a different light. Somebody gets it. But now she's getting through it. Like I can get through it. And there's what, you know what I mean? And it's just, and I think too, being able to have good support and everything that comes with that is just as important too. Yeah, I was really fortunate. Like my parents, even though they are still saddened by that. They're very supportive. They like sent me to therapy and like got me medication and all that stuff. My friends are great.

My school didn't send me away. So that was nice. Yeah. Even though if they did, I mean. Who knows? Right. It might have been good thing. I would say at any point that anyone's self-harming, like, even if it's just once,

you need to tell somebody. Right. And reach out because it probably will progress. Yeah, an escalate. Yeah. And coming from someone who's self-harmed a bunch, a lot more people do it than you realize. Yeah. Like, a lot of.

of people at my school have done it, maybe just once. Maybe like just joked about it or have done it or like say they're going to do it or, you know, at one point or another have done it. And I would say a very large percentage of people and it's wild. Yeah. Because I would be aware I would hear people talk about stuff and because I was dealing with it, my eyes were more open to see the signs. Right.

And it was pretty common. Yeah. And it's just like if I could go back in time to my fifth or sixth grade self and be like, don't even start. Like don't find something else. Like I don't, something else. Get addicted to something positive. Right.

Right. But in a way, I'm not glad that I went through that throughout. middle school and high school, but I feel like it has grown me as a person. Right. I am more self-aware. I'm aware of where I need to be careful with myself. Ways to be like, I do have an addicted personality. Yeah.

I don't drink and I probably won't ever. And I don't know if I would have made that choice if I hadn't already struggled with an addiction so young. Right. And also, like I said, too, and like we were saying, there's so many people that struggle with it or that have it that you don't even know. So it allows you to help others also and to relate and understand somebody that's going through that and to almost be that person to be like, it's not worth it. You know what I mean? Or like I can tell you my experience and it's this. So, you know, and I always think that that like you were just saying things, anything that you go through in life, good or bad, it'll always grow you as a person.

It'll always help you become more self-aware and teach you. things and I think experience negative or positive is important because it always helps you with yourself and it helps you relate to others and make others feel because at the end of the day like everybody just wants to feel heard and understood yeah and I think that's important but you did amazing though and thank you so much for coming on and you really are so well spoken and like it's it's amazing like how self-aware you are you're so young like we've literally had like people on that are so young. And it like shocks me. So I'm like when I was your age, like I feel like I don't, I don't know that I would be

able to be like that self-aware and that well-spoken. Because you still have your whole life ahead. But no, you did amazing. And thank you so much for wanting to come on. I really appreciate it.