We're All Insane - Attacked and Mauled by a Wolf

Episode Date: September 6, 2026

This week, Ellen opens up about the traumatic story of being attacked by two wolf hybrids when she was just 5 years old. She shares what she remembers from the attack, the devastating injuries that nearly cost her her leg, and the physical and emotional aftermath that followed. She also opens up about living with PTSD, night terrors, and panic attacks, how EMDR and art became part of her healing, and what it has meant to finally share her story 25 years later. Check Out Ellen:  → Instagram  → Website  Sponsored By: → Quince | Find the fall pieces you’ll reach for most at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers, or go to https://quince.com/insane. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK, too. → MasterClass | MasterClass keeps adding new classes, so there’s never been a better time to get in. Head to https://masterclass.com/insane to get at least 15% off any annual membership. → ZocDoc | Taking care of your health just got easier – start here with Zocdoc: https://zocdoc.com/insane #sponsoredOn This Episode We Cover:  → 00:00:00 - Introduction → 00:03:30 - Why are wolf hybrids dangerous around children? → 00:05:14 - How did the attack happen? → 00:07:58 - How did the wolf attack her leg? → 00:08:42 - What does she remember afterward? → 00:14:58 - How did her parents react? → 00:17:00 - Why did doctors consider amputation? → 00:19:30 - How did the attack affect her parents? → 00:22:18 - How did she recover from four surgeries? → 00:27:36 - What was her hospital stay like? → 00:31:58 - How did losing her hamstring affect her? → 00:34:08 - How did she overcome her fear of dogs? → 00:36:08 - Did the owner face consequences? → 00:40:50 - How did the attack cause her passion for art? → 00:44:18 - What happened during her first psychedelic experience? → 00:50:26 - How did the trauma affect her family? → 00:59:12 - Why did she finally share her story? → 01:05:06 - Why was her dad worried about her sharing online? → 01:09:40 - Why do wolf hybrids end up in sanctuaries? → 01:13:50 - How did telling her story help her heal? Further Listening → Dove in a Lake and Broke My Neck More We Are All Insane: → OFFICIAL MERCH NOW AVAILABLE - code INSANE10 gets you 10% off for a limited time → Join We’re All Insane Mailing List for EXCLUSIVE Content + Discounts  For ad-free, uncensored videos and plenty of exclusive content please subscribe to the We Are All Insane subscription channel at https://wereallinsane.supportingcast.fm/. It's $5.99 a month and watchable on Apple and Android mobile apps, Roku TV, Apple TV and Amazon Fire. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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S&P Global Mobility Canadian New Vehicle Total Registrations for calendar year 2025 for the Cadillac definition of luxury. So December 5th, 2001 is when this occurred. I was in kindergarten. I was five years old. And I'm from Winston-Salem, North Carolina. And this happened. in Winston-Salem. I was in kindergarten, and at the time my mom, she worked part-time, and she would come home and get me off the bus in the afternoons. And when I got off the bus that day, there were two neighbors dogs that were wolf-hybrid dogs.

We did not know at the time that they were wolf-hybrids. We thought that they were some kind of odd mixture of a dog. and that's kind of how he always said it too, that they were just mixed puppies. But they were definitely about 90% wolf. They were very large dogs, about 90 to 100 pounds each, and they were both males.

They were very large black dogs with orange eyes, and they looked like wolves, like black wolves. So there was, because they were two males, what happened that day was, they kept getting out of their enclosure, and he neglected them. He did not take very good care of them, and they were just kind of like his trophy pets. Yeah. Like what I have. Now, did he have them in a yard or like a cage type of situation? It was in, I'm not sure the acreage, like maybe a quarter acre, half acre, enclosure. And it was hog fencing, if you know what that is. So on a farm, they'll have

that kind of large square wire fencing. And it's called hog fencing. And it's not, it was not appropriate. It did not keep them enclosed. It was about, I think, five, maybe six feet tall, and they would jump over it because they were very big and they could jump over the fence. So that day, they had fought because they would fight a lot because they were males and they were also just very instinctually confused animals because they don't exist in the wild. So really, it's animal abuse to breed these animals, these hybrid animals. And there's a lot, it's actually a bigger subculture for it than people realize. Especially in North Carolina, actually, there's, it's one of the highest concentration

areas of wolf hybrid breeding. Wow. So I'm assuming it's legal to do it there? It's actually not. Okay. So people are just breeding these and selling them and then I guess saying that they're mixes. You can legally own them if you live, I think, at least 50 miles outside of a residential neighborhood or a school or areas where there's children. So you have to live in the middle of nowhere.

This was we lived in a residential neighborhood, obviously. Also, like I know I've seen every now and then on TikTok when you're swimming. scrolling people with wolves or wolf hybrids. And I think it's very glamorized. Like, oh, that's cool. It is. It is. It's like having a wild animal. Exactly. But it's not. No. It's not. And it's actually, there's a very dark side of it. There's been a lot of people, humans that have been attacked by these animals because they're, like I said, instinctually confused. They're in between being domesticated and wild. But they tend to lean towards the wild. Like the domesticated side is they do rely on. humans for food and whatnot. But the wild side is they don't know how to stop certain instincts,

you know, especially like, you know, attacks. And children are the most likely to be attacked, small children, because something about a small child and the sounds and the size and the energy of a child seems more like prey to them. So I was a target. What happened? What happened? was he was not there. He would leave town a lot, and he would literally leave a note on the mailbox asking neighbors to look out for his dogs while he was gone. Like feed them and give them water? Or just, I guess just make sure they, I don't know. Okay, so yeah. He was crazy if you can't tell. He was definitely a crazy person. Probably didn't even help their behavior at all. Like they were probably hungry, thirsty.

They were. They were. They were. They were. They were neglected. They were not treated well. They shouldn't have existed in the first place. And I feel anger, not only for myself and my parents and everything we went through, but for the animals too, because that's, like I said, it's just so unnatural for them to exist. And they don't know. They're animals.

They're dogs, like, basically. I mean, they're wolves, but you understand what I mean? But it's, so what happened was I got off the bus. One of the dogs was running around the neighborhood. My mom and some of the other neighbors were handling it. And she told me to go inside. And so I went inside and I was watching TV. I remember I was watching Dragon Tales on PBS.

And I heard my mom yelling outside. at the dog, basically, like trying to get the dog. She had managed to get it into our yard, and she was putting something, I think putting something around it or call her something, so she could take it back to its pen. And I went out there, I went outside because I was curious, and I wanted to see what was going on,

because my mother was yelling, and I followed her across the street to where the pin was, and standing beside, the fence. I don't know what I was doing. I don't know if I laughed or made noise or what. But we got to the pen. She was, I don't know, a few feet away from me, like really close at the gate of the pen. And it was like at one of those double gates. So she was trying to get it in the double gate, get the dog back in. And the other dog, which was the alpha of the two. And he would always chase that one out. He was in the fence and he was, you know, riled up because they had just

fought. We don't really know exactly, you know, it's hard to know what's going on in an animal's mind or what causes these things to happen. But the next thing that happened, he stuck his head through the fence because since it was the large wire, square wire fencing, he was able to stick his entire head through the fence. And I was standing close enough. He grabbed me here. First, there's a scar here and I've tattooed over it. Actually, like, just last year, I finally tattooed over it. But you can still see it like a little bit and feel it, but it's in the shape of a bite. And he got me there first.

Mom drops everything, runs to me. She's pulling me away. It's like chaos. I do remember, by the way, I do remember very vividly, but it's vivid but it's also kind of here and there a little blurry

like it's like snapshot memory type thing so I do remember her pulling me frantically and like yelling at the dog to let me go

he lets go because she was pulling so hard and he was he had so much strong energy we fell to the ground and when we fell

my left foot went under the fence and I have a scar here on my foot where he grabbed my foot and pulled my leg all the way through the fence and started here and just mauled my entire leg. And all of this happened through a fence where like my leg is sticking through the fence like this. And my mother... So he was just like eating your leg. Yeah. And then mom said he just stopped. Like, he just stopped and turned and walked away.

But at that point, like, so much damage had been done. Right. And I'm bleeding like profusely. And like, I remember seeing the inside of my leg. I do remember that. I remember the gore. And to this day, I can't watch gory horror movies because I've seen my own. Right.

And I. I so I remember she picked me up she got me out from under the fence picked me up she's screaming and crying she got I think bit a little bit too and

she got hurt a little bit I mean not nearly as much as I did but she got some injuries and she had she was covered in my blood I still remember what she was wearing she had on light blue and I had on I remember I had on my light up sneakers

and he beat one of them off. And the other one was still on my foot. I remember when I got in the ambulance and they were taking it off. And I remember in my five-year-old mind thinking, oh, no, my light-up shoes. Yeah. Because I was a child. Right. She picks me up, carries me out to the street. And the next thing I remember was being surrounded by neighbors and people because my mom's screaming for help. you know, call someone help call 911. And this was 2001. There were no cell phones, really.

I mean, I think maybe she had a cell phone, but it's not like today. You know, you don't think to go grab your cell phone. And she probably didn't even have it on her in that moment. So she was yelling for help. I get laid on the ground in my parents' front yard. And we moved out of this house after this happened. But we were laying in the front yard and I'm just looking up at the sky and I remember it was overcast. It was completely overcast. It was probably about 4 or 5 p.m. in the evening, early

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And I asked it out loud. I said, am I going to die? And then, of course, all these adults around me are saying, no, no, honey, you're going to be just fine. But really all of them thought I was going to die. And my dad was at work. And he worked not too far from where we lived. When he left work that day, he had no idea what was happening again. no cell phone, you know, access in the moment.

He was about to pull out of his work and all the emergency vehicles were driving by, and he waited for all them to go by, had no idea where they were going, and he pulled out behind them and followed them all the way to our house and had no idea what was happening. And when he saw them turn on our road, he thought maybe, you know, neighbor had heart attack or something. He, like, this was the last thing in his mind. And he gets, he stops, gets out of the car.

My mom's on her knees on the ground with me. And she's, like, telling my dad it was the dog. The dog got her. And he didn't see, he saw this side of me first. He didn't see this side at first. And when he saw this, he said he thought that was bad enough. And then they turned me over. And he just said, that's when time stopped.

Right. And he said time stopped after. that for both of them. They put me in the ambulance. I remember the parent, I, I have so much respect for paramedics and first responders because of my experience. And the paramedics immediately gave me a little teddy bear and put me on the stretcher and put me in. And I was conscious through the whole thing, I never lost consciousness until they put me under for emergency surgery at the hospital. Never lost consciousness. I was very calm. I wasn't crying. I was in shock. Right.

But I was able to talk to the paramedics. I was telling them all what had just happened. Do you remember feeling any pain? Not in that moment. The pain came in the recovery. But I think I was in too much shock in that moment. And the scariest part is if the dog would have been out, like, who knows if you would be here? I know.

Because he could have went for your throat or your face. You know, like he went for what he could get. Right. Which is terrifying. Right. Luckily it was just my limbs. Well, even just the leg, there's a major artery. It was bruised.

Right. But not punctured. And my sciatic nerve was bruised, not punctured. So had the artery been punctured, I would have bled out within a couple of minutes. Had the nerve been punctured, I would have been paralyzed at least from the waist down. Right. So, and they really thought the doctors, except the one doctor I'm going to talk about in a minute, most of the doctors were thinking I was going to need an amputation or that I would never walk again.

And they didn't even know if I had a 50% chance of making it through that first night. That's what they told my parents. Well, even like now, because you're an adult, obviously, and you can see all the damage. So I can only imagine when you're five and your leg is half the size, you know, like what they we're seeing. Right. I'm only like 40, 50 pounds, maybe. Yeah. And I had to grow with it and everything. So. And I have one more question. Before I forget, did your parents ever have the thought or the fear that these dogs might attack a human? No. They just thought they were like misbehaved. Thought they were weird. Okay. And they could escape and get, okay. So, and it's interesting.

I mean, did the alpha one ever get out in the past or just? Probably. Okay. I'm just trying to think, like, the fact that an adult was able to kind of get the one and take it back in and there was an issue. Like, it's crazy that they target kids more. But I guess, like you said, it's like that prey drive. It just brings something out. And even, too, maybe the fact of because, and like you said, we can't assume what's going on in the animal's mind, but, you know, they're two males, and I'm sure they were not neutered.

Do you know? No idea. Well, if they weren't, whether they were or they weren't. There was clearly like something happening. They probably weren't, right? I would imagine. Yeah. And I'll say you could have been just that like, this is mine type of thing.

Yeah. I feel incredibly lucky, incredibly, and in fact miraculously lucky. Right. Because to me, you know, and I know some people don't believe in miracles. but. Well, I do, so it's fine. I 100% do because I've lived it. And I believe the fact that the artery and the nerve were not punctured is a miracle. I believe that one young doctor saving my leg was a miracle and I'm able to walk because of her. And so I guess I'll go back to, You might have to add it a little bit.

No, you're totally fine. I'm sorry. I was at, I had questions. No, please ask me any questions. Okay. Did you finish your part about your dad? Was there anything else you wanted to add in there? Oh, no, you were in the ambulance.

Just that he was so shocked. And that was such a, I always have felt very sad for both of my parents, but sad for my dad in that way that he came home to that so unexpectedly. Sad for my mom that. Should see it. Yes. And he, my dad struggled. with feeling, I think, some guilt for not being there,

even though that was totally not his fault and he was at work. And there was no way he could have ever seen that coming. Or he couldn't have prevented it or protected me from that. So, and I hope, I hope my dad knows that deep down. I don't want him to live with that guilt or my mom. I don't want either of them because they're the most amazing parents. I'm an only child. I have no other siblings.

My parents were in their early to mid-40s when this happened. So, you know, it was, that's just so you never think you're going to experience your child, like almost losing your child or losing your child. And I can't imagine how, I can't imagine really how it truly was for them. I do want to represent their side today, though, of the story. I think that they deserve to have their story told too. Absolutely. So dad and mom, you know, we all go to the hospital, obviously.

They're in the emergency room with me. The doctors and nurses are all crying because they're not sure if they can help me. They're doing what they can. There was one young doctor. She was, I think, in her probably mid-30s. And she was doing a, I believe she was a resident there or something. She was only at that, another miracle.

She was only at that hospital for about two years when I looked up her career history. So that's amazing that she just so happened to be there, which this was Wake Forest Baptist Hospital, which is now Atrium Health, but they have one of the best trauma centers on the East Coast. They have definitely the probably the best trauma center in North Carolina. It's also a miracle that that was in my city. Yeah. I feel like it was, you know, it could have been so much worse in so many ways, even though it was such a horrible thing that happened.

But I got very lucky and I was very well taken care of afterwards. And she operated on me and I had four operations while I was in the hospital. How long were you in the hospital? Only nine days. Wow. Because children are so resilient. I mean, I healed pretty quickly. I was walking.

I went back to kindergarten two months to the day, February 5th. That's crazy. Crazy. Okay, so when she came in, were they kind of debating at first what to do as far as keeping your leg? Yes, and they, like I said, they weren't even sure if I was going to make it through that first night. In the emergency room, I was totally conscious, and I was able to tell every doctor and nurse that spoke to me in detail what happened. And they were amazed by that. That I was awake and conscious and calm and able to talk about it. And was anybody at this time, I don't know the time frame with how this would work, but were they sending someone immediately over for the dogs? Or was that kind of like an animal control? Okay. And the police came to the scene too and they actually had their gunged or they didn't know if there was still a threat. But animal control had to come and take the dogs and euthanize them both and test them for rabies. which is, you know, a gruesome, they have to put them down because they have to decapitate them to test them for rabies.

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off your to-do list. That's Z-O-C-D-O-C dot com slash insane. And the guy's away, owner. He was away. He didn't know about any of this until he came back. Okay. I believe. So I have the first surgery. I'm in ICU. for three days. And I remember actually being in ICU. I have, like, I have, like, again, a snapshot memory. So I remember being in ICU and waking up from the first surgery, and there were two nurses standing over me, and I thought that they were angels and that I had gone to heaven. So I was raised very religious, by the way, and that's also going to come into the story. my, I was raised in the Church of Christ, which is a very conservative sect of Christianity. They

consider themselves non-denominational and all of that. So it was very, very strict religious upbringing pretty much. And I thought, you know, I'd been always told that, you know, when I die, I'm going to go see Jesus in heaven and see God and there will be angels and there'll be this white light and all of that. Right. And, uh, when I woke up, there was bright white light over me and two nurses in white on each side of me and I thought they were my angels and I had died. And I think that was one of the first things I asked them was that I die and go to heaven, are you angels? And they said, no, you're alive. And we're your nurses. And I think one of them actually was named Angel, I'm pretty sure.

It's crazy. Yes. Stephanie and Angel were their names. I remember them. And I have pictures with them too. And then I asked, where's my mom and my dad? And they said, they're here. They're waiting on you. They were waiting on you to wake up. And everything's going to be okay. You know, we're going to take care of you.

And do you remember what happened and all of that? And so I was in ICU for three days, the hospital, nine days total. I had four surgeries within that nine days. and lots of visitors, strangers came to the hospital and gave gifts to my parents. And I think I got over 500 cards and we still have them all in a tote box stored away. And every now and then I'll go back and I'll read some of them. And just so many gifts, so many cards, I think over 100 stuffed animals. My parents had to take the stuff to animals and donate them and stuff

because I had too many toys, everything. I mean, and it was right at Christmas time, and it was in December. So it was just crazy. I remember people coming and visiting me. Santa came and visited me. And they had some other people come in costume to the hospital because it was a children's hospital. So there were things I remember like that about being in the hospital,

but I remember hating having to go into surgery. And there was one particular day I was watching Blues Clues. And they came and said, we have to take you to surgery now. And I started crying because I wanted to finish this. Can I please finish this episode of Blue's Clues first before I have to go? And so I remember things like that and think about, gosh, I was just such a little girl. I was just a little child. And I had no idea of what was happening to me, really.

but I feel like really proud of that child. I'm very proud of that child for taking it so well and being so strong and brave. And everyone told me how brave and resilient I was. At the end of my stay at the hospital, there was like a little notebook, and my parents had all the doctors and nurses write little notes to me, and I still have that too.

And all of them were saying, brave, resilient, courageous, miracle girl, you know. And that was, our medical system is very messed up. Our health care system is very messed up in this country. But those people, those health care workers that took care of me, they cared about me. They took care of me. And my doctor definitely cared about me and took care of me. And she said, this little girl, is going to walk. She is going to walk. She is going to walk on her own two legs, not a prosthetic. Although that doctor now she has done work designing prosthetics for pediatrics. It's amazing. She's amazing. And I'm so grateful for her. And she took care of me and I did

physical therapy, a lot of physical therapy for months and months afterwards. And I hated doing the physical therapy. It was very painful. So after I came home from the hospital, every other day was physical therapy and every other day was dressing change. And dressing change days were very painful and physical therapy days were just as painful as the dressing change days. And I remember just dreading every day. And my parents too. They each had to take off several weeks from work. and take care of me at 24-7.

And my teachers were coming to my house and giving me some lessons and stuff. So I wouldn't fall too far behind and have to be held back in school. And they were amazing too. My teachers were amazing. My school was amazing. They really, you know,

they made sure that I was going to come back and be held and feel, safe at school. And I never, I never did get bullied from my scars too much. Or if I did, not to my face. People would always ask, kids would ask, but they weren't too mean to me about it. And so I'm also grateful for that. So I lost my entire hamstring. And that, that means, like, you can feel my femur here. So I'm missing a, good amount of muscle. And surprisingly, it hasn't affected me too terribly, like physically. I can exercise. I can run. I can lift. I can swim. I can do, I can hike, I can climb,

I can do pretty much anything. I want. I can dance. I do yoga. I do hula hoop dance and flow arts now. I was never able to play sports, really, because I played a little bit of recreational sports at like the YMCA, but I never actually was on a sports team and played competitively, actually, because it was too much of a risk for me to injure myself again in a contact sport because I'm missing all of this muscle. And the only other effect it really had on me physically, or effects it had was orthopedically. It affected my hips a little bit and, you know, how I grew. So I actually, I think I'm supposed to be taller than I am. I mean, 5-1, but I think I'm supposed to be like 5-3, 5-4. And my growth plates were fused because they didn't want my legs growing two different links.

So, yeah, that was, you know, I think the best case scenario, if you, think about it, that I had a small tumor come up in my leg when I was in high school, and it was benign. And they said it was the kind of tumor that comes from a traumatic thing happening to a part of the body. So like with, I guess, like, cardiovascular-wise, that's why it happened. So quick question. Yes. Did you ever have any fear towards dogs? That's a good question. I did it first. And my parents recognized that I was going to be afraid. So they actually ended up getting a dog for me.

And he was my therapy dog. His name was Dustin. And he was a Wippet. And we had him for 11 years. He passed away a couple days after my 18th birthday. So he was a very special, very, very special dog for me. He was my therapy dog. He was the dog that made me trust dogs.

Because Wippets and Greyhounds are actually very dog. and they're very good with children typically. And he was a fun dog. He was active. He was good for me. And I loved that dog so much. And he had some anxiety too. You know, we related to each other.

And he was sleep with me at night. And I just loved that dog. And I miss him so much. But he's the reason that I'm not afraid of dogs. And then we got other dogs. We had dogs all while I was growing up. And we had had dogs before this. We didn't have a dog at the time.

We had a chinchilla, though. Her name was Chi Chi But we got him And we've had other dogs since then That have been wonderful And I'm not afraid of dogs I respect dogs I respect

Guardian breeds especially And I don't think I would Ever have one I have a Shih Tzu I mean he's a guardian breed in his own way Yeah Did anyone ever explain to you the fact that they were hybrid dogs?

That was explained to my parents after animal control was able to take them and handle them. And then we learned what kind of dogs they were. And yes, I do think pretty soon after my parents were truthful with me about the dogs and what they were, that they were not normal dogs, because they didn't want me to be afraid of normal dogs. Exactly. Yeah. and then how long after the incident did you guys move?

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Let's take the Cadillac. Find out more at Cadillac Canada.ca. Luxury sales claim based on S&P Global Mobility Canadian new vehicle total registrations for calendar year 2025 for the Cadillac definition of luxury. A year and a half. Okay. Yeah. So it happened December of 2001. We moved in August of 2003. And then did you guys ever speak to the neighbor? Did he ever say anything? No. Not to my parents directly. I spoke to him one time when I got off the bus one day. I said hi, so-and-so. And he went back at me and said, hello, Alan. And that was it. And then my parents saw it happen. And they were so

upset. And they were like, don't ever talk to him. You know, like, you can't talk to him. And, but it was that moment of like, again, I was a child and innocent. And I was just saying hello to him because he's my neighbor. And I didn't. Did he get in trouble at all? Not enough. Right. He, as far as I know, the only legal precautions he had, which by the way, he never showed up to any of the court dates or anything, but the only legal precautions he had was, I believe, a $50 or $100 fine per dog. Okay. That's great. Yeah. And he never went to jail or anything.

He told the entire neighborhood that my parents intentionally put me in this position thinking that they would get insurance money out of it. Okay. And the neighborhood, a lot of them believed that. They believed it. They didn't know my parents, really. And they just believed that. Isn't that horrible?

And my parents are two. are the best people that I know, and they would never in a million years put me in harm's way. There's like no way, especially for money. That's insane. And I know that some people's parents will put them in harm's way, but that they are not my parents. Right. That is not my parents. And the audacity of this man, he came and spun his tires in our yard at night as a threat. my parents were getting letters from neighbors threatening them and telling them they were horrible people and that they should whatever you know they said horrible things they said to my parents went through such i mean just a complete nightmare there was a tree stott or a tree that got

cut down near the road at the foot of my parents driveway very basically at the spot where i had been laid on the ground. And dad took the stump and carved it into a heart to let the neighborhood know, this is who we are. Yeah. Like, we're a family of love, and this is a horrible thing that happened here. And that was like memorializing that, essentially. Yeah, we moved, we stayed in the same city.

My parents still live in Winston-Salem, actually. And I love Winston-Salem. It's a wonderful city, small family city. And there's a great art community there. So speaking of art, I absolutely found refuge in that. I already was in a creative mindset as a child. I loved to color and draw any chance I got. and I remember having like a little kid's easel and everything. I loved making art. And when I was in the hospital and I was in the bed, that was like one of the only things I could do. So that's kind of to me where my art path started was there.

And finding refuge in creativity, I think, is the best thing that you can do for yourself if you go through something traumatic. And it was there for me. And it was accessible to me. Art was always accessible. I knew that even if I couldn't walk, I'd still be able to make art.

And I made a lot of drawings in therapy about the attack and everything. And so it was quite literally an essential vital part role in my healing and in therapy. And I went to therapy for several years. I was having a lot of night terrors. Okay, that's what I was going to ask you, like, how was the aftermath of the attack when it came to that? PTSD.

So I absolutely had slash have PTSD. And the night terrors went away after so many years of childhood once I got a little bit older. But they were pretty bad for a few years. And it wasn't always the dog. sometimes it was just really scary dreams. But a lot of times it would be a dream where I felt afraid and then the dog would appear and attack me

and I'd always wake up right when I'm getting attacked. Or that I would be walking through a dream and the dog just appears out from around a corner of a tree or something and attacks me. And so I was constantly afraid, I think in my mind, the PTSD wired my mind to always be, afraid that something's going to jump out and attack me,

or the feeling of being trapped because I was trapped in that fence and I couldn't get out and trapped in his grip. So the PTSD evolved in my adolescence and teenage years. And as a teenager, I suffered from a lot of panic attacks. Once I went through adolescence and I was old enough to start really understanding the mental, emotional, spiritual impact of this event on me, I began having a lot of panic attacks

regularly. So when I was 17, I went back to my therapist and she referred me for EMDR therapy, which is eye movement, desensitation, and reevaluation. It's a specific therapy that is used for people with PTSD. A lot of, they give it to a lot of veterans and, people who have been through trauma, and it worked. It worked. My panic attacks stopped. And how long did you have to do that for, that therapy? I can't remember how many sessions total, but it was multiple sessions.

I think it depends on the situation or the therapist, how they... But you had success with it. I had success with it. So the therapist, she would give me these sensors that I would hold in my hands that would vibrate. and then I had little light headphones on that played a frequency back and forth, left to right, left to right, and then she did left to right. So it's almost like kind of a hypnosis. Okay.

So you go into a state of hypnosis a little bit, and the reason you're doing that is because you're going back to the event in your mind as if you're living it again in the moment. So it's a very hard therapy to do. You have to be very brave to do it because, in your mind, you go back and you have no idea how much your brain remembers, but you just don't think about it on a daily basis because you've repressed it. Do you think that's why you're able to recount a lot of it now? Yes.

Okay. I do. I do think it helped me with the repression. Okay. I want to preface this by saying I don't condone drug use or substance abuse of any kind for anybody. I'm not saying that people with PTSD should do psychedelics. I'm just telling my story. Yeah, it's what worked for you.

So about a year and a half after I did the EMDR, I tried LSD for the first time. And I remember, you know, and so this was, I had never known myself before this happened. You know, I had never known myself without scars. I had always grown up having the scars and what that meant about going to the beach or the pool and people looking at me. And, you know, my self-confidence was impacted, I believe, especially as a teenager. So I'd never seen myself with two normal legs. And in my first trip, that's what I saw. I saw myself without the scars.

Like I looked down at my legs and this leg looked like this leg. And the scars were gone. And I was in shock because I was like, how is this? possible. And I'm a very, I'm a pretty spiritual person. I mean, I was raised religious, but I always, my spirituality and my idea and connection to God always expanded past the limitations of the church. So this is one of those moments. Now were you taking the LSD for fun? Yes. And then this happened. Okay, gotcha. I did not expect this to happen. Although I had read some things about that it can help people.

So I was curious about that, but I was not expecting it to help me because, you know, there's all this stigma around that, especially that drug in particular. There's a lot of stigma. And it was my first time ever doing a drug, too. I mean, it was other than cannabis. And it was, I mean, for lack of better terms, balls to the wall. Right. A very intense experience.

And so I look down, I see no scars, I'm in shock, I'm feeling the emotions well up in me. And this, basically, like, the best way I know how to describe it was an energy, a moving energy, and I've drawn it before, a moving energy that is kind of translucent. I can see through it. I can see, you know, but I can see the energy moving and there's colors in, It's dark energy, it's darkness, like black, but I can see through it, and there's little colors all moving through, like, it's energy. And I could see the spiritual energy from the attack.

That's what I believe that was coming out of me, and it came and hovered in front of my face, and there was a window on the side of the room where I was sitting, and all of a sudden it looked at me and shot out the window. like supersonic speed. Yeah. And as soon as it left, went out the window, I bursted into tears and I've let everything go.

Like, I let the whole experience go and realized, oh, my gosh. In Toronto, every arrival is a statement, and nothing says it better than this. Cadillac Optic was the number one selling luxury EV in Canada for 2025. Find your rhythm across a seamless 33-inch display and an immersive 19 speaker AKG surround audio system. This city demands agility and optic delivers with precision to make every drive extraordinary. Let's take the Cadillac. Find out more at Cadillac canada.ca. Luxury sales claim based on S&P Global Mobility Canadian New Vehicle Total Registrations for calendar year 2025 for the Cadillac definition of luxury. I don't want to say, you know, bad things are meant to happen to people,

but I had this overwhelming feeling like actually this was supposed to happen. There's, you know, reasons I believe that are divine and I don't really want to know who I would have been had this not happened to me sometimes I've wondered about that but after that happened I there was just this overwhelming feeling of it's okay that this happened and I'm going to live an amazing life despite not just despite all of that but because of it too and And that was a very powerful experience. And I like to talk very openly about that experience, despite any judgment I may receive for that. No, I love it.

And I think it's important because there's probably other people that have experienced things like that during a trip, but don't really talk about it because I think people were going to be like, it was because of the drug. It's just drugs. You're just hallucinating. Right. And yes, I was hallucinating. Which even if you are, though, whatever gives somebody peace of mind, and healing, who gives a shit. Right. And it didn't hurt me.

No. Or anyone else. Yeah. It didn't hurt me or anyone else. I did not jump off of a bridge. And, you know, sometimes all it takes is having something alter our mindset. And I think that that's what happened. It rewired my brain. Yeah, literally. Yeah. And that's what it does. That's how the medicine works. It's medicine. I don't like to call them drugs. I believe when you start abusing them, their drugs.

Right. But when you're not abusing them and you're utilizing them for their divine purposes, their medicine, it's medicine. It's medicine. Yeah. And it's medicine for your mind, your body, your soul. And I'm very grateful for that experience and that I was able to do that and heal in that way. Was there any other part of your parents aspect that you wanted to share with their whole perspective or what they went through? So she's been sending me some notes of things she wants me to say. One thing you can say if you haven't already is he gave us a false sense of security about the dogs, said that they were big babies whenever we were over there and he said we could come any time to see them. So you didn't have any fear around them? No, because, you know, he was saying

that we didn't need to be afraid of them. He knew exactly what they were, though, of course. She said, I remember one specific night right after you had gotten hurt. Your dad and I were encouraged to go home and get some rest. We were sitting in the living room and I was crying so hard that I could not even see. And he was just up pacing the floor. He just kept saying, we're going to have to be vigilant. We're going to have to be vigilant. Because at that time, we were getting a lot of media attention. That was another thing. Yeah, know how I've left this out. Of course, the news was there and trying to interview my parents and the neighbors and everything. We were getting a lot of media attention, and we didn't really

know how to handle that. And they kept a journal, so very extensive journal of every single day, everything. They wrote down everything, every doctor said. I mean, my parents being adults and parents of an only child, I feel like it's hard for. me to speak on their perspective entirely other than what I can empathize and sympathize with them. You know, they, they were never the same after that, never the same. They, I mean, they're okay. It's, you know, it's not like, it, you know, totally ruined our lives. But for a while, it did. And my dad. lost his brother to cancer a year and a half after it happened.

Right before we moved, he lost his only brother to cancer. So our family was going through it. This was also right after 9-11. So it was just a really strange time in the country. I think my parents were at the time already feeling strange about the world and strange about the energy and the air. And then this happened. And I believe it really shook them to their core.

Like they didn't feel safe. They didn't know. They were afraid of being able to keep me safe, you know, going forward, which they always have. Yeah. And we moved and they're still in the house that we moved into. And that house became like a sanctuary for us and for me. And but I know that that was really hard for them having to uproot.

you know, they took off time from work. They're getting all this attention, like my mom said, not just from the media, but from hundreds of people that we knew, people that knew people we knew that we didn't know, and a lot of attention. And my parents are both pretty introverted people. So I think the whole thing was just so over. I mean, I can picture my mom crying so hard she can't see and dad pacing the floor. I can picture it because they, I can't imagine. And anxiety is not even the word to cover what they were experiencing. It was just a complete nightmare, a nightmare. And then at what age did your art really pick up for you?

I would say middle school, high school. I started getting more serious about the art and learning actual technique and everything. And in high school, I started painting. And so I do paintings mostly. When I was 15, I started painting in oil and, excuse me, in acrylic, and then oil a little later on down the road. When I was 17, I went to Baltimore to Maryland Institute College of Art for a summer for their pre-college art program. And I met so many people my age from all over the place, from New York. California, Chicago, Japan, the UK.

You know, it was just people from all over teenagers coming to this program. And we would take college art classes and I was there for, I think, about two months. And the last week we had to come up with, you know, a big painting to do. And we had to build the canvas and I had never done that before. Like it was my first real painting, I feel like, was this painting.

and I wanted to do a painting to process the trauma because right before that summer is when I had done the EMDR. So I had just gone through the EMDR and I was ready to kind of start processing all of that a bit more in a healthy way. And this painting did that for me. The painting, I built it myself. Like I said, it's like three feet by four feet. and I remember like getting into a yoga pose because I also started doing yoga when I was 15.

And since I wasn't able to play sports, yoga was a physical refuge for me and it still is to this day. And I wanted to be in a yoga pose and strong and brave looking with my back to the dogs. And the unicorn that's in the painting is the reason why I put that there is because the night that I was in the ER, All of the doctors and nurses came into the gift shop and came together to buy me, like, the largest stuffed animal that was in the gift shop, which was a big unicorn. And I named her pony, and she sat behind my head. The whole, like, pretty much most of the time I was in the hospital or, like, at the foot of the bed.

She was always, like, somewhere. And my whole childhood, she was in my bedroom, like, up on a shelf, like, overlooking my bedroom and she always made me feel safe and unicorns represent resilience and bravery, which were traits that were, I was being described by those traits. So it just made sense that I put the unicorn in. And the unicorn in a way was kind of like also a representation of God or like the universe protecting me in that moment and keeping me from dying. And just that, the miracle and unicorns are miraculous right you know they're miraculous beings and so it's like that unknown um energy is what that the unicorn represents and i've got my back to it and i also have

myself as a small child and i did that not in paint i did that in charcoal because i didn't want it to be permanent it's like the the charlest of the charcoal can be wiped away because that's like the memory of who I was before this happened. Yeah. Because that's not who, that's not, that little girl doesn't exist anymore after that. Yeah. That's beautiful. Yeah.

That's incredible. I love it. I love it. So that was your first big art piece. Yes. And then after that, is that kind of really just what took it away for you? Yes. I mean, I'm 30 years old now.

So all through my. 20s, teenage years and 20s. I've had a lot ups and downs in my life. I've had a lot of art has been pretty consistent in my life since then with periods of time where I was making less art than others. But I actually later in my mid-20s, I went back to school and got my degree and in fine arts from UNC Charlotte and started processing things again when I was there. I did a couple of pieces

related to the trauma when I was in school and really was affirmed that art is my path. That's what I'm destined to do. And I, not just because I enjoy making art or because I think I'm any good at it,

I want to make art mainly because I want other people to see that you can, A, everybody can be creative. Everyone has that in them. And I want people who have been hurt, people who are hurting, people who have been traumatized. I want them to see that they can find refuge in creativity or a special interest. Yeah, absolutely. And that if I can inspire people in that way, then that makes being an artist totally worth it. And you, so this is your first time on a podcast. Yes.

Sharing your story. Yes. So at what point would you say that you were like, I want to talk about this? Football is back. Every game, every weekend, Draft King's sportsbook has you covered. Every snap matters. Every comeback can shift the game. And every fourth quarter moment can change everything.

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See draftkings.com slash sportsbook for details. Please play responsibly. Number one sports book for live betting based on available live market data. I think I've wanted to talk about it for a long time and I've just never really found the right platform until I came across your page, which I just came across one of your reels. I don't even think. anyone I knew was following you. I think I just saw the videos. And I was like, wow, that's amazing

that, you know, this exists and, you know, and thank you. You're amazing for having this platform. And then I just got a feeling when I saw the videos that it was time. And I think, too, it's interesting because you've always been expressing yourself and telling your story, but in your own way. Yes. And I think that it seems and can be seen as very powerful, that you're almost branching, branching out and telling it now with your voice. It can be really scary to express that and to go back through everything that happened. Absolutely. And I think that it's probably, and correct me if I'm wrong, but easier to not have to talk and get it out, but rather use art to show everything and to get your point across and to express yourself.

rather than vividly speaking the details out again. Right. You know? I am a very visual person. Right. So that's why I'm an artist or a visual artist at that. But I think I've sometimes struggled to use my voice too. And so it took me a long time to have the confidence, I think, to tell my story in this way.

Because telling it individually, you know, day to day, I make new friends or I meet somebody. or I have to go to a new doctor or what have you. And I'm telling my story. You know, I mean, I was in Rome, Italy, studying abroad when I was in college and went and got a tattoo. And on my left ankle. So, of course, she's asked very politely, you know, what happened to you? And I told her, as she was tattooing me, I told her the story. Just like, I'm telling you now.

and most people, 99% of the time people are very, very kind, or people won't ask. I have this one friend. I think we were friends for like three or four years before she finally. Really? Before we both realized, or I realized I had never told her, and she never asked because she just cared about me and she didn't want to trigger me or anything. And I said, oh no, no, you could have totally asked, like, we're friends and everything. But I've also had creepy guys at the gym come up and ask me inappropriately.

And there's been some instances where strangers have been inappropriate about it. But for the most part, people are very respectful and very, and they listen. And I don't have any problem telling the story. And I think, too, it's different telling it in order and more detailed. and then also explaining the mental health journey, not only from your perspective, but also your parents and what they went through. And I think that that's really powerful in healing

and you should be so proud of yourself, and you're really great at it. You know, for being your first time kind of running through it all, I think that to me, I feel a very healed energy from you and just a confidence in everything that happened. And there's a sense of just owning your story and owning what happened and not being defined by it that I think is really important. Yes, absolutely. Yeah.

And I think scars are memories and they're almost like tools for us. And they show our strength and they remind us of how strong we really are. And they're nothing to be ashamed of at all. No. And I think that, you know, no matter what type of scar someone has, or from what, I think that from hearing your story, it can help make someone feel really empowered in their own. Because I think it's, you know, a lot of people would be insecure,

I feel like, about it because it's not the normal. You're not, you know, perfect in a way, you know, and no one's perfect at the end of the day. Right. And I look at scars as stories and as something that makes you, you, and unique and different. And I think the more people that have these stories and might have, here's the thing too,

everybody has scars, just not everybody has physical ones that are visible. Yeah. And I think that the more people that can share and talk and be open and be like, it doesn't define me, it doesn't matter, you know what I mean? I think that that on its own helps a lot of people

because I think that can create a lot of insecurity. And like you said, especially when it's something that you're growing up with and you're a girl and you're going through, you know, your teen years. It's like it's natural to be harsh on yourself and to look at yourself and get mad some days or be upset or angry. And so I think that that's just a one, another aspect of your story that's really important and incredible to talk about. I've always worn shorts and short things.

And you look amazing. Thank you. Of course. I appreciate that. Likewise. Thank you. You were beautiful. Thank you.

I've never felt like it was going to serve. me to hide it. Right. And also, by not hiding it, that attracts the right people into my life, people that will accept me for that, you know. Yeah. And so yeah. And what did your parents think about you coming on and sharing your story? I think my mom, my mom, I think has been very, they both have been supportive, but I think my mom a little more so. I think my dad was a little concerned because I'm going on the internet. Yeah. It's, yeah, that on its own is a scary thing. But it's been 25 years. I'm not saying any names. And I feel safe telling my story. I think that it's okay. And it's your story. And you're always allowed to tell your story. Right.

You know, and I tell people all the time, too, that come on the show, you're able to always tell your story without affecting anyone else. You shouldn't have to not tell it because you're worried about what someone would think or if it's going to and yeah you didn't say names you're fine you know it's this is your reality and at the end of the day you're not doing people that are coming on here to share their stories aren't sharing them to bash anyone or hurt anyone they're doing it for themselves and for others that are listening that need to hear it and that's the beauty in the show and the platform and I think by doing that I mean like like I said I was so excited when you reached out and I think your story is incredible and and it is a miracle you know and it's a

scary because, I mean, I didn't even know, like you mentioned, that North Carolina is a place where people are, you know, breeding these kinds of animals. And it's scary. When it comes to animals, we should remember that they are, they're animals, you know? And we have to, if you're going to have one, you have to be responsible and have it on a leash or don't, you know, just something. And it's really, really, it's scary. And I can only imagine the, the PT, PTSD and the trauma that comes with something like that. And it's hard too because I think animals are such a big part of our world. And they are amazing.

You know, they create so much love and they can be such a different healing energy. But it's like when something like that happens regarding an animal, and if somebody hasn't experienced it, because I think people can hear about it or see it and be like on the internet and just kind of like it goes over their head. I think when you experience something like that, it's really, it shakes you. It does. And it makes you, it does, it instills this fear as anything would that is traumatic that happens. And it's just, it's really sad and unfortunate. It's neurological. It is. And it's just, you know, I, I don't like that aspect of animals because it's just that, it's that fear around it. And I mean, even when I'm

walking my dogs and I see a dog that is a scarier type of breed, whether it's like one of those, like you just know the types of dogs that are like they're more loyal to their owners and they're guarding they want to guard their families which like once again amazing especially if you live by yourself or you have a family and that's your protection I'm all about it you know and it's not to create a stigma because I I know that that's a very sensitive subject because people have very you know all different types of breeds and whatever else and swear by their breeds and that's amazing and I would never be somebody to be like no that breed is bad you know but but But naturally, it is scary, you know, and I think that, I mean, even freaking my one puppy,

she has her temperamental issue sometimes, and that scares me. And I just, it's just the whole thing with animals, I feel like they're just so unpredictable, and it can be, it can be really scary. And I think, I guess my point is just to be super responsible if you're going to have one and, like, know your animals and don't ever put yourself or them in a situation that, you know, Like you said, that guy knew. And I think he was negligent. I don't think he cared.

He didn't care about the dogs or anyone. No. And it was only a matter of time. And who knows? Maybe the thought didn't even cross his mind because he was that negligent. Or maybe it didn't, he just didn't care, you know? I think that he knew it was a possibility that that would happen. I think he knew.

Do you know if they found out where he got them? I do not. I'm assuming a breeder. I was thinking, because it makes you wonder, like, I wonder if they, like, if it got down that far of a line to, like, where they could, like, put an end to it. I don't know, but, you know, you were talking earlier about seeing videos that people have of these dogs. Yeah. And I really, it makes me sick to my stomach every time I see one. And do you know how many rehabilitation places there are now for these dogs?

Yeah. Because people get them and they, these animals, they get them and they cannot, they realize they can't take care of him. and they take them to these sanctuaries, which they're all over the place. You know the show The Office? Yes. I remember Jenna Fisher, who plays Pam. She posted a couple years ago that she went to one in Florida. And I love her so much for this, and I hope she sees this someday.

That'd be great. I love her for when she went, she talked very openly about the reality of these animals and how they end up in these sanctuaries. Yeah. And I was like, thank you because somebody who has a large following and has a platform to speak about this dead. And I wish that more people would. I think a lot of people don't even know these dogs exist.

No, and I think it spreads a lot of awareness. Because once again, like we were saying in the beginning, people could look at it like, oh, that's sick. Like, I want a dog that looks like a wolf or is big. Or they think it's cool or cute, cute wolf puppies. Yeah. And I think that it's, press awareness of like, no, they're wild. Let's not bring it into our house or into neighborhoods or

whatever else. And that's a scary thing too is something can be illegal and people just find a way around it. You find a way around it. You find a way. Oh, yeah. It's just a mix. It's just like illegal guns. Yeah. Or, you know, legal drugs. Anything. Like anything. Right. People will find a way. It's scary. It's really, really scary. Yes. It is really scary. So, and when I was, I used to live in Asheville, North Carolina for a couple of years and in my earlier 20s and I remember seeing them around Asheville more than anywhere else because apparently they're more common in the mountains. There's like kind of a... Where do you see them just like people walking them or in the neighborhood?

One time I was working. I was at work one day and I had a service job, a public service job and I saw one. Somebody brought one into my job and I, this was a, this was a one of the only times I had any kind of panic attack after all the therapy I went through because I just was, oh my gosh, I'm standing face to face. Did it look like the ones? It did. I recognized what it was immediately. Did you say anything? I said something to my boss and he let me take him step away until those people left.

But that was not the only time I saw those dogs. And I'm not really sure where they come from. I just know that there's these breeders, they exist and they make a lot of money. And it's clearly common over there if you're seeing them somewhat often. Yes. Terrifying. It is. And I have seen, I've definitely seen them before.

And I've told this story to people. And they'll be, they'll say something like, oh, one of my friends or my cousin has one of those dogs. And, oh, but it's fine. Like, it's always such a nice dog. That's what I always tell them. It's fine until it's not because they can flip a switch on any human. Not just children. They're owners too.

I mean, I kind of look at like, you hear stories about that about regular dog. I know. What is that called? They randomly like something in the brain. Like it's neurological. Yeah, they flip a switch. Yeah. And a lot of them have to be put down because they can get aggressive.

And it's so sad. It is hard. But that's the nature of the beast. Yep. Right. You know. It's true. Right, you kind of have to just get a Shih Tzu and see what.

Exactly. And you know what? He makes me feel safe. Right. That's all that matters. He's my alarm dog. I love it. He might not ever actually attack someone for me. Right, but he'll let you know if somebody's there. He will. And he's great. That's amazing. Yeah. No, and like I said, I'm so grateful that you came here. And obviously, I'm going to share all of your, your art and anything else that you want. Any resources, any links. But you did it amazing. Thank you. Of course. How do you feel? I feel amazing. I feel like kind of, okay, so I will tell you when I had that first trip. Yeah.

And when I did the EMDR, it was a feeling, and when I made the painting, like every time I have kind of a milestone with this part of my life, this is definitely one of them. Yeah. I feel this like relief for this sense of like a weight. Yeah, like a weight is taken off. and I feel proud that, A, I'm alive and that I survived it, but I'm proud that I'm able to sit here and talk about it at all. And, you know, I'm proud that I'm able to travel and meet people everywhere and connect with people. And, you know, that's what's important. And so I'm doing that right now. I've traveled to be here and I'm connecting with you and able to tell my soul.

story, but this is a particularly special for me because I've never told my story in such a formal manner. And that feels really good. It feels like almost like I'm more, I'm going to be taken seriously a little bit more. Yeah, like I can do this. Yeah, exactly. And I want people, mainly to take what I want people to take away from this is please find that thing in your life, heals you and keeps you grounded and keeps you going and inspires you because that is the medicine. Real Canadian Superstore has everything you need this back-to-school season. Save on lunchbox savers like Ziggy's sliced deli-meat products for always 375. And get life brand pure Vita shampoo or conditioner for $8 each.

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