We're All Insane - Attempted Fetal Abduction

Episode Date: February 17, 2025

#podcast #pregnancy #maternity #baby USE PROMO CODE "allinsane" at the link below to get an exclusive 60% off an Incogni annual plan: https://saily.com/allinsane What started as a friendship turned into a nightmare when someone she trusted did the unthinkable. This is Angelique’s story of how her friend attempted a fetal abduction—trying to take her baby before they were even born. Angelique shares the shocking details of how things escalated, the warning signs she missed, and how she ultimately escaped a horrifying situation. If you're in a toxic or dangerous friendship, please trust your instincts. Angelique’s Links: TikTok: Angeliquemonet0 Instagram: Angelique.monet92 If you have a unique story you'd like to share on the podcast, please fill out this form: https://forms.gle/ZiHgdoK4PLRAddiB9 or send an email to [e-mail] Business Inquiries please contact: [e-mail] Topics: Fetal Abduction, Pregnancy, Toxic Friendships, Motherhood, Crime Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, it's me Devorah. I just dropped an all new bonus episode inside my new subscription channel, We're All Insane Plus. This week's bonus episode is called My Brain was slipping into my spine. Listen now by subscribing to We're All Insane Plus inside your Spotify or Apple Podcasts app or go to we're all insane.com. My name is Angelica Robledo and when I was 18 years old, my friend came to my house and plotted to kill me and perform a C-section on my body to take my unborn child. She then set my house on fire to burn my body with all of the evidence. She did not succeed, and that's kind of what we're going to get into today. That was perfect.

Took me a second. That was perfect. That's fucking wild. It is. It's a very unbelievable story, something that I don't think is talked about enough. Did you know that the number one cause to death in the U.S. for pregnant women is murder? I did not. It's murdered.

Not stating that all murders are based off of, like, fetal abduction, but we have, like, that's just the number one cause of death to pregnant women in the U.S., which is mind-blowing. Right. We're going to definitely with my story, with a fetal abduction, it's uncommon, but it's becoming more common now. When it happened in 2011 to me, I honestly had never heard about this. And the reason I tell my story is to let other people know, first off, like, what fetal abduction is. And to also let them know that not to trust everything.

There's a what saved my life and what we'll go into is that I had this, what I call an intuition feeling. You can look at it from different ways that people like to think of it as, you know, intuition, as God, as a spirit, their ancestors. I've gotten so many different, you know, people that tell me, no, it's this, no, what's that. You can believe, you know, however you want to believe it is, it's, that is what saved my life. So either way you got the feeling.

Either way you got the feeling. However you got it, though, that's why I feel like we have to teach the younger generation to know, to understand, and to learn what the difference is between anxiety and what this feeling is, because it could be the one thing that saves your life. Absolutely. And then should I just start going, like, I'm going to start off in the beginning? Yeah. Okay.

I was going to say, also, I feel like it's something that you feel like you'd only see in a movie. Absolutely. Like it's one of those things that you're like, oh, that would never happen to me. How does that happen? That's exactly what happened. And that's why when I, when this happened to me, I was fighting back and forth with myself because first off, being a senior in high school, we'll say in 2011, like we didn't have social media. We didn't, we had Facebook in MySpace.

Like there wasn't too much that was publicly posted about stuff like this. Yeah, we watched crime shows. I watched SVU. So I knew that things could happen. But we're not taught in an early age. Like, hey, someone can come to your house and try to kill you and take a baby. Like you're not. It's just something.

that is uncommon and not talked about and not literally unheard of. Yeah, unheard of. How do you, how do you even predict this is going to happen? And that's what I feel like, like I said, it's happening more and more now. And it's happening with people getting baby clothes. It happens with a best friend being jealous. It happens with mentally ill people. Like it's just a wide range. And so I think it's just one of those topics that is going to blow people's minds, but also open their minds into a different direction, especially when you're pregnant because we're most vulnerable then. We're hormonal. We have, you know, we want to make friends because you lose your friends through pregnancy sometimes as becoming a new mother. You lose your

friends. So you want to attach to other people that have something in common with you, which in my aspect, it was I lived in a small town in Maricopa, Arizona. And when that happened, I was the only pregnant woman, like pregnant girl in my class. I had a friend, I had a couple friends that had babies prior, but their kids were already one or two. And so when I remember being pregnant and thinking, nobody can relate to me right now. My best friends, they're seniors. They're having the time of their lives. They're out partying. They're out doing what seniors do. And I'm not. I'm not. I'm left out. And it was a choice that I made a choice that I would never take back on. But it was a choice that I made, you know, to do this. And that made it difficult. So that's what kind of

opened my mind into wanting to maybe find somebody that was pregnant. Also, someone that was my age that can relate to what I was relating to. I do want to state, and you can use this if you want to, if I laugh throughout any part of this interview, it's not because I think something's funny. It's because I'm either, A, nervous or B, I just really, really do have, where I guess you could say, like, it's not that my trauma is funny. It's that, like, that's how I cope. Yeah.

It's a nervous laugh. Right. same way. Like, it's one of those things that whenever people, you talk about something that I think is uncomfortable, like even though it's your story, I think it's not always comfortable to talk about the uncomfortable. So the way we cope with that is we laugh. Not everybody cries or gets upset. Exactly. What is it called? Trauma humor. Yes. Trauma humor. Absolutely. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. And I think it's important for people to know that because I think it's easy to, when you're watching something, If you're hearing a story that's heavy, you might feel the heaviness.

And then if somebody that's telling it, you know, they might seem more lighthearted. But they might think that it takes away from the story, but it doesn't at all. Like everybody deals and heals different. Oh, absolutely. And I think people need to know that because it doesn't take away from anything. So I'll leave that in there. I think people need to know. I think so too.

Because I did, I watched somebody the other day and they were doing a story and somebody was like, why are they laughing? And I'm like, that's literally, that's, that's just their trauma response. That's their response right now of how they're feeling. And it doesn't mean that they actually think their trauma is funny. It's literally just how they're coping with that. And that's important to allow them to do that because it's their story. And if they want to laugh about it, let them.

Why is it hurting you? Exactly. It shouldn't make you feel uncomfortable. And it didn't happen to you. Exactly. Perfect. No, I think that's important. So I had, when I was 18, I had become friends with this girl.

Do, do, am I allowed to say like her first name? Yeah, it's whatever you're comfortable with. So when I was 18, I had become friends with this girl named Cassandra. I had a friend, her name was Hannah, and she had messaged me and was like, hey, like, I haven't seen you in a while. I met this girl. Her name is Cassandra, and she's pregnant just like you are, and she's new to our town. Would you want to come hang out?

Sure, why not? Like, this was the opportunity that I was looking for. This was somebody that could relate to me, unlike all my other friends. And so I literally went in thinking this was going to be fantastic. Yeah. And it was. We just went out to, so I lived in Maricopa. Chandler's about 20 minutes away.

We went to a Denny's that was like right off Chandler Boulevard. And it was me, Hannah, Cassandra, and I think it was one of our other friends. I just can't remember their name. Now the Cassandra girl, she did not go to school with you guys. She just was newer to town. Correct. She was, she had lived in Mesa from prior. She was from Arizona, though.

How did your friend meet her? Just because she moved to our town. Got it. So I ended up finding out later, which is really my friend, Hannah, a lot of people when they hear my story, they always question, did she have something to do with this? Like, her introducing you was this, like, was she a part of this whole plan? Right. The answer to that is no. She absolutely had no idea.

I will say that Hannah and I did not talk about what had happened after, like, she found out everything because she had felt so much guilt. And I actually just found that out like maybe a couple weeks ago. I always wondered why we never talked about it, but I've always just let it go. And it was because she felt so much guilt. But she told me things that I had no idea about. She told me, I thought personally that she had met Cassandra first and that she just introduced her to me. It was completely backwards.

Cassandra actually met a lot of our friends before she met Hannah. Okay. Cassandra was living with one of our friends, his name was Sebastian. And I don't know how they got introduced, but somehow. she was living with him. She had made up this whole story about how she had nowhere to live. It was wild, though. Like she was married and her husband had lived far away.

Her mom had passed away. Her dad had passed away. It was a crazy story, but everybody felt really bad for her. So she went to go live with our friend Sebastian and Hannah had met her there at a party, like a kickback. And she was just cleaning up and doing dishes because she's pregnant. So she was just kind of doing things while everybody else was hanging out. and Sebastian had complained about her like, oh, she's, she just sits here.

She just says this. And Hannah felt bad. So Hannah was like, do you want to come to my house? Like, I'm a girl. Like, it's so nice to meet you. Like, she was just trying to be nice. Got it. So Cassandra went to her house and lived with my friend Hannah for like two to three weeks on

her couch. So that is how like Hannah had met her. And then Hannah was like, hey, let me introduce you to my friend. Her name is Angelique. She's pregnant. You guys will have so much in common. And so that's kind of how we just got introduced. And it was just a sit down.

out of Denny's just talking, but we had hit it off like really, really fast. Like it was one of those things where you meet somebody and you just, I wouldn't say click. It's more of just we got each other and you could tell that we were having a good time. Were you guys both? How far along was she? So it was around, I remember it was around Christmas time. So it had to been like the beginning of December. So I think I was, I was due in March.

So I think I was approximately about six months, maybe a little bit more. And she was approximately like three. three months. So she was really tiny still. She did do like this thing where she had her hand on her hips and she would like kind of push her stomach out. A lot of people always ask like, didn't you tell she like she didn't show. I didn't start showing till it was like five and a half months. Right. And everybody is so different. So different. And so at that moment, she was just very barely pregnant. I was already six, six and a half. Somewhere between there. And so we had went to the mall with our friend Hannah. We went window shopping. Hannah was buying gifts for her kids and one of her

kids and then like her mom and dad and stuff. And so we ended up going after that to like babies R Us. And at babies R Us, they like, like you can do your registry. So like you had the little gun and you could just like walk around and start like, oh, I want this. I want that. So me and her had decided to just might as well. Let's just start a registry and let's just start, you know, scanning things. It was fine. Like it was it was fun. I had a lot of fun with her. At that moment, we, you know, went back to Maricopa and exchanged phone numbers, socials, which was just MySpace and Facebook. Facebook was fairly new, though. And that was it.

I had never met up with her again after that. That was our only interaction together, but we did remain in contact that whole time. So I remember her messaging me like, oh, I have really bad heartburn or, oh, this is happening. So, like, we were able to really connect and talk about things that we couldn't talk about with our other friends or we felt like they wouldn't understand.

And that was really important to me because I couldn't just tell my friend, like, oh, I have heartburn. Oh, why do you have heartburn? Well, because I'm growing a humanist. inside of me. Like, there's a lot of things that changed with my body that I couldn't understand. And so it was really nice just having her to do that with. Months had went by. So I believe this was either the end of November or the beginning of December when we met. It had now become February. Honestly, what's today's date? I would probably say like around this time 14 years ago,

almost exactly. I had invited her to my baby shower. And she told me she would make it. And she She wasn't able to make it. So, yeah, she wasn't able to make my baby shower. And she had called me one day and was like, hey, like, I'm so sorry. I couldn't make it to your baby shower. I did buy you a bunch of gifts. And I would love to come over to your house and give those gifts to you. And I was like, oh, yeah, that would be great.

Actually, I'm sorry. I lied. She wanted me to go to her house. Okay. So she was trying to get me to go to her house in the very beginning. But I was nine months at that point. I was pregnant. I did not want to go anywhere.

I didn't feel good. I had started getting. What I didn't know, I had preeclampsia. So I didn't know why I wasn't feeling good and why I just felt sick all the time. I just thought it was because of pregnancy. But that's the whole reason I didn't go to her house. So I had invited her over to my house, which I lived with my parents at the time because I was only, I barely turned 18 years old. I had it moved out at that time.

And so I felt comfortable with inviting her over. So she, I think we just like picked a date for her to come over, which ended up being February 16th. She had showed up at my house early in the morning, probably like around like 9.30 a.m. My brother answered the door and she just walked in and we just hung out literally all day long. My mom was there. My two brothers were there. Everything seemed normal. We were just sitting on the couch at this point.

I think it was 16 and pregnant at that time. I had just been like the original OGs. Like they were the ones that we were watching. and we were just talking. Like, it's all I can really remember is just having, like, a good time with her. And then there was a moment where she wanted, she was, like, she started asking me and my mom questions about, like, births and, like, C-sections and things like that, which is normal conversation. Like, that's normal conversation. Like, if you had just become pregnant and you knew that I had a C-section, you'd be like, I'm scared.

My doctor said that I possibly might have a C-section. Like, can you explain that process to me? like it's very normal. So my mom, she had asked my mom that. My mom had had a C-section and she was like, can you explain to me like how the whole C-section thing worked? Mom was like, yeah, you know, they will, you know, cut right here. And she started like explaining the process. And immediately Cassandra was like, wait, where?

And my mom was like, oh, right here. She's like, Cassandra literally stood up, pulled her shirt up and was like, can you show me? Like she wanted to know exactly where the scar would be. My mom was like, my scar is right here. But like when they cut you, like, it's lower. It's just that when you start to heal, like, you know, rises. Your stomach is big type of thing. And she was like, oh.

And then she was like, well, what happens if they start choking or they're not breathing? And I'm just kind of sitting back just like, this is weird. Like, when I say weird, I just mean like, I never really thought about all of this. Like, this is crazy. Like now I'm getting scared that I might have to have a C-section one day. Right. And my mom starts telling her, well, you know, they grab the mokosucker, which is like a little bulb. like that you squeeze.

And she was like, oh, I've never seen one of those. And I was like, you've never seen one? She's like, no. And I was like, oh, I got one for my baby shower. And she's like, oh, can you find it and show it to me? And I was like, no, I'm not going to go back in my bags and go look for that. Because my whole couch was like, I had like one of those L couches. And the whole, I had such a big baby shower that like all my gifts were just, there

were so many. And I was like, I was very blessed. But I was very much like I'm not going to go through there and look for that. So she got up and started looking through my bags. And I was like, what are you doing? She's like, I just want to see what this thing is. And I was like, I'll Google it to, I'll Google and show you, like, what it is. Yeah.

It really was. She would do random things. She wanted the tool. She wanted the tool. And it's like hindsight 2020 now, like that I'm telling, like, as I'm telling it, the reason I'm going into details is because you're going to start to realize all these little small details and be like, wow, these were signs. But hindsight, 2020, you don't know that what's going on until later when you can start

putting things together. And yes, you can put these as like red flags. But if I was looking for a bulb, I would not think that some girl is going to try to kill me. So like, but these are things that are really important to understand and to know behavior wise of like how badly she was trying to put this plan together that she had put in her head already, but she wanted to execute it. She wanted it to be perfection. And so this was the way that she could make it like that. And it's just crazy because I feel like at that moment that my mom and I were just feeding her information, not knowing that we were just giving her information and, tools that she had no idea about.

Yeah. Which is crazy. Step by step, step, especially with my mom going like, well, they cut here. They do this. They do that. Like, I'm sure Cassandra, hopefully she had done a lot of research before she came to my house. And, you know, like, hopefully she understood what she was coming to my house to do.

Because what were you going to just do? Just cut me open and just take my baby and be like, okay, bye. Like, you could cut his finger off. You can cut his toes off. You can kill him. Like, there were so many different aspects to this plan that I, I don't. honestly still wonder like how somebody can go into this, especially as a teenager thinking that you can you can do this. Right. It's successfully. Successfully. It's mind blowing. So we had we had done

the whole thing. So the whole C-section thing obviously like with us talking about it. That was something that I always want people to understand like and to see. There was there was a moment where I had felt like she was mimicking my life. And the way, and, and, and, The only way I can put it was like we were sitting down. My mom, we had, we had Gagnasada and chicken left over from like the baby shower. And so my mom ended up, you know, making some of it, made us some rice and beans. And we had sat down at the kitchen table and all three of us were talking. It sounds weird, but like we very much, it was all within one day.

And we were kind of just jumping around from different places. Like my bedroom, the couch, the kitchen, and just kind of. So she just spent the day with you. She literally spent the day with me. And at this point, it was probably about lunchtime. It was like 11 o'clock, maybe 12. and she was sitting down and all three of us were sitting there just talking. And we started talking about things.

She wanted to know more about like my life and just like was asking my mom like, oh, what kind of kid was Angelique? And I'm like, oh gosh, let's not talk about this. I was a really bad kid. I was horrible. I was horrible. Like I was growing up, I lived in California. I had moved from California to Arizona my seventh grade year, which is like a prime year.

Like you moved me in my middle school year to some place I have no idea and you have to make new friends. it was wild and this town that I lived in was so small that it was a middle school high school and elementary all put in one like I would walk from classrooms and see high schoolers and see elementary's kids like yeah my parents had moved me from a really like rich like I call it a pinkie uptown because we were like the poor people there we lived in a really nice mobile home but that's what I always called it and so she wanted to like know just like more about my life and who I was and unfortunately I became like a really I changed everything about myself when I moved to this town because nobody liked me for who I was. I guess I was too nice. Maybe I was just

too sweet. So I had to change everything about myself and I became like I put on this like bad girl like vibe. I think at some point I even thought like I even thought like I was a gang banger. I think at some point like it was it was kind of embarrassing to talk about but it's the truth. Yeah. And so my mom started telling her stories about like when like I ran away when I did drugs, like when I drank like all these different things. things. And all of a sudden, like, she would mimic the story almost down to a T. Like, my mom was like, oh, yeah, Angelique, you know, ran away one time. And she jumped out her grandmother's window and hopped the wall and ran away. And she was like, oh, my God, did the exact same thing. And my mom was

like, oh. And she was like, yeah, like, I jumped out of my grandma's window and I did that, like, like, exact same story. And I remember sitting there going like, do we really have this much in common, like, to the point like where we've done, we've done everything that, like, you're me, basically? Or is she just like mimicking me? And I guess. And I guess. the only way that you can understand that is put yourself as being an 18 year old girl again, a teenager. Put yourself as being a teenager and hearing somebody mimic stuff about you, you're like, what's going on? Like, it's kind of weird. Yeah. And people always ask me like, oh, you had these weird feelings about her. It wasn't that I had weird feelings about her. It's just that I kind of got

annoyed by her and I felt like she was looking for attention all the time. And so there was a moment after that conversations of just like her saying that everything that I've done that she did too. I had pulled my mom aside and I was like, what do you think about her? And mom was like, well, what do you mean? And I was like, what do you think about her? Like, do you think she's weird? I'm almost like, no. And I was like, I think she's weird. My mom was like you're being judgmental. Like she had told us about her mom. Her mom had died from breast cancer. She, her dad had passed away. She was living with her sister. Like, she got married to this guy named Edwin, like, who doesn't treat her right. I'm almost like, honestly, she just seems like a broken girl who just

needs a friend. Like I think that she's just trying to relate to you and I think she's just really, really trying to get you to like like, like her. Then that made me feel like crap. And I was like, man, mom, good job. You just made me, you, you did what a mom's supposed to do and you reassured me that everything's okay. Whatever I'm feeling is just, you know, me overreacting. But she honestly is just a teenage girl that just wants to be accepted. Right. And so that changed my whole perspective on whatever I was feeling prior. Well, also, once again, you know, Even if in those moments you were to find out right away like everything that she was saying was a lie, your mind would more so go to, okay, she's troubled. She has issues of some sort, but you would never think she's going to try to kill you.

Exactly. Like, you know what I mean? Because I even think about it of people that I've come across and met in my life that have done weird things or had things that are odd about them. Yeah. You know, everybody's different. And I think you can, when that, when you see these things, you either decide, do I want to keep hanging with this person or do I not? But you never jump to the conclusion of, oh, this person actually is thinking about murdering me and stealing my child. Exactly.

Like far, far fetch, right? Like, how do you just get these vibes? Like, yeah, you, and that's what people, it's weird because, like, you'll have people specifically on social media. That will be like, oh, you felt weird about her. I would have kicked her out right away. No, you would not have. You would not have it. Maybe if you would have, then maybe that's just your personality.

But, like, realistically, nine out of ten people wouldn't just kick somebody out because why? Because you think that they're lying about something. Or that they're weird. Or that they're weird or that they may just have. And again, being a teenager, like, I feel like when you say somebody's weird as being a teenager, it's more like judgmental. Yeah. It's because we're, you know, we're young. We don't understand life.

We don't understand the heartaches that people go through. Maybe I'm not fortunate enough to understand, you know, what it's like to lose a mom, a dad, and then, you know, get married. Like, you don't understand all of it. of this. I always state that in order to understand somebody's story, you have to start from the beginning because you have to understand who that person is to understand why they are the way they are. And it's extremely important, especially not even with her situation, just like in any type of survivor situation, you always hear the, well, I would have done this or I would have done that. And it's like, you have no idea what you would have done because you and I are different people.

So the way that you and I react is going to be different because you don't know, you don't know me. But also, I don't think anybody can really know how they're going to react until they're just in that situation. You don't know what your body's going to do. You have no idea. I feel like your fight or flight takes over. You don't even have any time to really think half the time. Absolutely. And that's kind of like your instincts, your instincts that just kick in.

So I definitely agree with all of that. So once my mom had told me everything was like fine, like that put me literally at ease. I felt so much better about whatever I was feeling. and I just continued my day with her. There was some moments that, and I just want to reiterate, the reason why I'm bringing these moments up is because they're going to make sense later on. Got it. All of these things that I'm kind of talking about throughout the day are going to make sense.

Like as we start to get through everything, you're going to be like, wow, that makes sense. Yeah. So she kept wanting me to go to the park. So I, there's an in Arizona, every development, there's a park. There's a park in every little development. So there was a park right down the street. And she kept on wanting to go for a walk. And I was like, girl, I don't want to go for a walk.

Like, I don't. I don't want to. It's hot outside. I'm nine months pregnant. I don't feel good. Like, that's the reason I invited you to my house. Like, I just want to stay here. And I feel like it was a few times that she had brought this whole park situation up.

Like, oh, let's go for a walk. Are you sure you don't want to go to the park? And I'm like, yeah, I'm sure. Thank you. Like, I don't want to. Thank you. And so we had not gone to the park. There was also another moment that she,

speaks Spanish. I actually am full. I won't say full. My majority is Hispanic, though. My mom, my dad, my grandparents all speak Spanish. My mom's, she wasn't very fluent, but she understands Spanish. So Cassandra would constantly go on the phone and she'd be talking to somebody in Spanish. And then my mom, like, she made a joke and my mom laughed and she goes, you understand Spanish? And she was like, yeah, like, you know, like I understand it. I can't speak it fluently. But yes, I do understand and that threw her off like she kind of was like oh and then she went into another room so now every single time she answered this phone call she would go into a different room because she didn't like want my mom to hear that is something important to remember for later on but what I do want to

say about that is that the way I've had people tell me like oh that's weird like you should end that do you like people to listen to your conversations yeah like if I'm if I have an important conversation I'm going to leave the room and I'm going to go talk if my husband's calling me is like hey, something's wrong with the kids. I'm going to leave and go talk to somebody else. So it was weird, but it wasn't at the same time. Once she realized like, oh, she understands. Now she felt like her privacy was taken away.

It's kind of how I look at it at that moment. I was like, oh, she's just wanting to have a private conversation. So that was something that was that she would go do after she realized that my mom does understand Spanish. And then the whole rest of the day, I feel like we just sat on my couch. I do feel like that's all we did. I got to a point where I wanted her to go home. And it was because I was kind of like mentally exhausted by her.

I was exhausted also just from being pregnant. I wanted to take a nap. There was a lot of things that were kind of coming into play. You didn't want to entertain anymore. I didn't want to entertain anymore. And I was nine months pregnant. Like at that point, I just wanted to lay down and just sleep. Yeah.

So there was a moment where I was like trying not to be rude. So I was like stretching like, oh, like I'm so tired, you know, yawning and like getting my blanket and my pillow on the couch. Like, you know, trying to get a little snug. And she was like, I'm so sorry. Like, I didn't bring my key and my sister isn't going to be home until like this time. So once I realized, man, she's stuck here. Like, she's stuck here. I'm stuck with her.

So now I might as well just keep posting. So I then, you know, get up. And I feel like we just, I feel like we just watch TV the whole day. I feel like we watch. I literally think that we just watched 16 and pregnant the whole time. Maybe it was teen mom. I don't remember. But that's what we were watching.

I remember us just talking about certain things. And then all of a sudden at that point, it's getting to like, like midday, like almost evening. And it's time for my brothers to go to football practice. So my mom comes into the room and she's like, hey, like I'm going to be going to football practice. It's at the park. It's probably about 10 minutes away.

And she had offered like, do you guys want to get out and go for a walk like at the park? I'll take you. I'll even bring you guys because it's two hour practice. She's like, I'll even bring you guys back early. Like if you start to get tired. And I was like, you know what? I could do that. Like I rest.

I laid down. I rested. Like I did everything. I was like, that actually sounds nice. Like Cassandra, do you want to go do that? And she was like, oh, no. I was like, what do you mean? No.

Like, you just, you wanted to go for a walk at the park, like this whole time. Like, you asked me a few different times. She's like, I don't feel good. I just, I'm starting not to feel good now. And it would it be okay if we stay at the house? And I was like, you know what? I understand. I declined you earlier.

Like, I'm thinking this in my head. I declined her earlier. So absolutely. Let's go ahead and just stay at the house. I told my mom, hey mom, it's fine. You know, we're just going to chill. I think we're going to do our nails. I ended up pulling out like all my nail polish, nail clippers, you know, everything to kind of do our nails.

And I said, we're just going to stay here and do that. And she was like, okay, that's fine. So this was the opera. This was the moment that left me and Cassandra by ourselves at the house. And at this point, it was probably about 5.30, almost six. The sun was just starting to set. And right when my mom left, it was like every, it was like every, it was like every, it was like everything changed.

Like her whole demeanor, her body language, everything about her had just like, just, it was like a light switch went off. And she was like, she was still herself. So like I didn't start catching on until later, like until like things started happening. But that's like the only way I can put it was like she just like, was like, oh, she's gone. Like now I can like do this. So all of a sudden she came to my house originally because she couldn't make it to my baby shower.

And this was the first time you and her hung out just you two in person. Just us in person. Okay. Just me and her. This is now the first time. We had talked on, we did talk for, from whatever, like, beginning of December to that time. Right. So we had talked over social media.

And we almost talked, like, I would, I wouldn't say every single day, but I would say quite, like, probably, like, maybe at least a few times a week. We had talked. So I felt like I knew her. Like, I felt like, I felt comfortable enough to be home alone with her. Yeah. Even so, though, like, something I want to mention also is it's easy to comment. because obviously with you saying that you posted on social media and people ask a lot of questions

or say what they would have done differently, it's easy, even for you, I'm sure, now that you're older, to look back and say, yeah, I actually would have picked up on that or should have picked up on that or whatever else. But at 18 years old, you're still a kid yourself. Like, you don't pick up on things like that. I don't think our brain is equipped to pick up on red flags like that. I just don't think it is. I personally don't either. And I think that's extremely important because people will tell me, oh, you were naive. And I'm like, I was 18. I was funny because I was just, me and my husband were having this conversation this morning. I was like, people will literally be like, you're naive. And I'll be like, is that supposed to be an insult? Yeah. Like, are you, are you trying to insult me?

Because it doesn't feel like an insult. It feels like something naturally, like it's natural. It's normal. I'm Anna Garcia, host of True Crime News, the podcast. Every week, we bring you in-depth coverage on cases making headlines as well as those that go under the radar. Tune in for murders that defy explanation, mystery seeking exploration, and shocking secrets that will leave you breathless. Each week we honor the victims by going beyond the salacious in our search for justice.

Crime never stops and neither do we. Listen to true crime news available now wherever you get your podcast. Nobody can sit here and say that they have never been naive at least once in their life. That is how we learn. We learn from situations and we, that's how you do it. Like if you, you know, when you're a baby and you learn certain things, like that's just how it is. You, that's how we're supposed to evolve. That's how we're supposed to,

you know, adapt to life. It's there could also be two 30 year olds and one has a lot of trauma and experience and one has had this like, you know, sheltered protected life. That 30 year old that has had nothing happened to them probably is going to be more naive. They're going to think that nothing bad could happen or will happen. Whereas the other person that's experienced trauma is going to sit there and be like, you have to have your guard up, you have to be careful. That's, I absolutely agree with all of that. It's hindsight, like I said, hindsight 20, also like when you stated right now, like somebody might have like go through trauma. I, everybody's like, you were, oh my gosh, you were so sheltered. Is that bad? Is that bad

that I was sheltered from bad things? Like, I didn't have to go through experiences like that. I had, I'm not saying I'm privileged, but like, I'm happy that like I got to, you know, live life the way that I lived in order to, who wants to go through something like that? Nobody. And nobody wants to live a life feeling like you have to look at everybody like they're bad. Exactly. And that's honestly, and we'll get into that when it comes to the healing part. But absolutely, like I deal with that every day. It's a struggle. When you go through a trauma, especially something with like someone trying to kill you or you having like an almost like something happening where you're almost going to die, you then look at everything like should I do that or am I going to die? Like it's halt this has halted my life for years.

Like I wouldn't ride quads. I wouldn't go into the lake. I wouldn't, I'm scared. I'm afraid my kids are going to get hit by a bus. I'm afraid. I'm afraid of everything in this world. And it all comes back down to my trauma. My trauma has made it where I saw that evil can happen.

And I saw that something bad could happen to somebody. What else on this earth is going to happen to me? And it's hard. It's hard to cope with. It's something that you have to like go through, you know, the steps of whatever you need to go through. But I think that's why people are just like, one bad thing happened to you. Like, oh, you don't understand, though. That one bad thing can change your whole life forever. And it makes you have a different outlook on life altogether, too.

Yeah. Okay. So she had came, originally the reason she came to my house was because she didn't make it to my baby shower. So she had brought these baby shower gifts. The whole reason she came to my house was because she wanted to give me these gifts, which we completely forgot about the whole time. Like there was, we didn't even talk about the gifts. So now all of a sudden she has, she brought this like diaper bag and it was like a square rectangle, like a square rectangle neighbor bag was pretty big. And she started telling me, oh, I have these gifts for you. And I was like, oh, yeah, the gifts. And she was like, I want to give them to you. And I was like, okay. And she was like, okay, she grabs a chair, puts it in the middle of the kitchen. And I'm like,

what's going on? And she's like, sit in the chair. And she's like super excited. I'm like, okay. And she's like, yeah, just sit down and turn around and close your eyes. What? Yeah. Turn around and close my eyes. I'm like, okay. So I'm sitting in the chair. And all I can keep thinking about is what's kind of gift giving is this. But she would come up behind me and drop a gift in my lap one by one. So she would come up behind, like I could sit in the chair. She would come up and just drop a gift in my lap and I would grab it and none of them were wrapped either. But it would be like I'd grab it and it would be like a onesy, like a newborn onesie, a receiving blanket. And I would just she would go one by one, just back and forth, back and forth and drop it. They were gifts. I mean,

she was handing me things. Very strangely, but like, you know, I was, thank you, thank you. I just kept saying thank you. Like, and it was one of everything, like booties, mittens, receiving blanket, regular blanket, like an outfit, a beanie. It was literally one of everything, just one of everything after you have a baby, like you just want to take your baby home with. And I remember taking them and smelling them because they had this, like, sent to it.

and it smelled like a man had like rubbed it all over himself. Like it smelled like a clone. Like somebody had just sprayed a bunch of clone on it or just went like this and rubbed it. I don't know. But I do remember smelling it and thinking these are used. But my mom had taught me to always be respectful. No matter what kind of, even if you don't like the gift, whatever it is, you, you were to say thank you and just, you know, be happy about it. Yeah, act like you like it.

Act like you like it. Even if you don't like it or you're going to do whatever you want with it, that is completely fine. Put it aside. So I was just thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Oh my gosh. I love this.

This is so cute. And she was like, you really do. And I was like, yeah, yeah, I really like it. And she's like, I have one last gift. I have another gift for you.

And I was like, okay. And she was like, she pulls out this like baby wearing, like one of those baby wearing things. I called it a baby carrier and people were so confused. They were like, she pulled a baby carrier.

I'm like, well, it was like a wearing. Where you put the baby in it. In it. Yeah, yeah. And there weren't a lot of the front backpack type of deal. Yes.

And there weren't a lot. 2011 there weren't, there weren't, we didn't have all of these, like, brands that are out now. Like, they're so cool. I wish I had them when I was younger. But, like, they were just generic, just a generic, you know, black baby caring thing. And so she had given me one, and I did not get one for my baby shower. I was actually really excited about it.

I was actually super excited. But I know how much these things cost. And 18 years old, don't make, I worked a jack in the box. Like, I made, you know, $7 an hour. Like, I definitely, you know, didn't come from money. So I'm thinking, like, I don't know you that well. and you just bought me, you bought me this? Like, it made me feel uncomfortable because I don't know her like that.

And not even my best friends would get. I just didn't think that that was, it made me feel weird. I did. I felt weird. And I remember telling her I can't accept this. I can't. I know how much this thing costs. You already got me all these gifts.

And she was like, no, no, I just feel something different with you, Angelique. Like, you're so nice. You accepted me. And I was feeling weird about the whole gift giving. And then she says this about how much she likes me and how nice I am. and she told me, like, I just feel like when I moved here to Maricopa, like, I wasn't accepted and, like, people didn't like me. And you just made me feel a whole different way, your generosity, like, your parents, like, and I was like, she is so nice. Like, all these mean things that I keep

thinking of her. Like, I just wanted to get rid of all those bad thoughts because it just made me realize, like, wow, she's just broken. She's just somebody that wants, kind of when we went back up before. She just wants somebody that wants to be accepted, somebody that's just trying to get, and maybe that's why she was mimicking my life. Maybe that's why, I kept going back thinking about all these different things that I felt weird about her and kept thinking like, she just is a, she just wants to be accepted. She just wants to be loved. She wants to have a friend. And so I was like, she's so nice.

Like, that's all I kept thinking. Like, I'm just so, she's so sweet. And I'm a nice person. That's just realistically. I'm a nice, genuine person. So once that happened, once that happened, she then, I talked about this. Do you remember, like, I think. they were like pillow pets or like it was like and it shine like your pillow pet and like it had like a

light that shined on like on the ceiling. I wanted one so badly. They were always on TV. They were always like on TV that you could buy one. I wanted one. They're not even that expensive but I wanted one so badly. And I did mention that at some point throughout the day I had mentioned how I did not get one and how upset I was about it. So she goes, I have a special gift for you. And I was like, oh, you do. I thought that was a special gift. And she's like, no. It's a it's something that you wanted really badly. And I was like, oh, what is it? She was like, I had a light specially made for Riland. And I was like, what? And she was like, yeah, like, it's a light and it shines and it has his name. And I was like, no, you did not. And she was like, yes. And I was like, oh my gosh, I love her.

She was like, I want to show it to you. And I was like, okay. And she was like, let's go somewhere dark. So she was like, your room would be perfect because at this point, the sun had started to set. It was, it was pretty dark in my house. So we went into my bedroom. She did the same thing. She was like, turn around and close your eyes. And I was like, oh, here we go again. Make me turn around and close my eyes. Yeah. Make you feel uncomfortable.

Everything's a surprise, it seems. Everything is a surprise. And so I'm just like, okay, so I'm standing there. I don't have my eyes closed because it's already dark in the room. But I'm standing with my back turned to her and she closes the door and it's pitch dark in my room. So the sun has fully set at this point. It's pitch dark. And I'm standing there and I can hear her like going in this bag.

And all of a sudden I start like my hands start to shake. and I'm like, what's going on? And then all of a sudden, I start to get like this weird feeling. And I started to think, this is all happening within like a minute. But I'm standing there thinking, what would you do if you try to stab you? How would you protect yourself? How would you fight her off? And then I'm like, whoa, whoa, that's a, that's a dark thought.

Like, why am I thinking this? And the only way I can explain it is like, you know, like when you watch those cartoons and it's like the bad, like the evil guy, like the angel? It was kind of like I was going back and forth with myself. I was like, you're going to die. No, you're not. You're going to die. You're crazy.

Like, it was literally a full conversation in my head that I was having. And it was like somebody was whispering telling me what was about to happen to me before it even happened. And specifically, I always, in the confession, in the, in the, like, in the, not the confession, in the reports of everything. Like, when I have, like, the ice state, I felt like I was about to be stabbed in the back. Like, that's what I felt. And she's, at this point, she's just digging through this bag. And I'm feeling all these thoughts. And I start to get nauseated.

and then I start to like try to get myself out of feeling that way. And everything in my body just feels like I'm scared. I'm terrified. Yeah. And I can't. Yeah, I can't figure out why because I've never felt this feeling before. So I'm standing like if I'm standing right here, she's back here. My bed is right here.

Closets right here. I literally turn around and sit on my bed so that I can see her. Made me feel better. Oh, what are you doing? oh, my back's hurting. My back's hurting really bad. And that's what I kept stating. She goes, oh, okay, I'm almost done. Sorry, I'm just, I'm hooking it up. And I'm like, okay, she then grabs the bag, gets on top of my bed behind me. And now I'm feeling even worse. Like, these thoughts are just like, you're going to die. You're going, you're going to die. You're going to die. Like,

it's literally in my head that I grab my phone, put my mom's phone number in and put it to my chest. And I have my finger on the call. And I went so deep into thinking that if I were to die, that my mom would hear me. If she answers the phone, if I leave a voicemail, like if something happens, I'm pressing the call button and throwing my phone to the floor. That is how in depth I got

of how I felt like I was going to die. But I kept trying to get myself talking out of that because why would someone do that to me? And she didn't really, even if she did all of these weird things, she didn't really give you a reason for you to think she'd kill you. Exactly. So then I started thinking, it kind of exactly what you said like who does that right like this is nuts this is nuts and then

I kept thinking like that I was just crazy and so like everybody's like well you were doing this forever no this is literally like a minute this all happens super fast but all the thoughts in my head are just how I can explain it and so I have the phone to my chest I'm standing there I go Cassandra what are you doing she was I got it I got it okay ready she's like I'm just going to put it over your head like I'm gonna your my closet was so now beds right here I'm I'm sitting right here. She's behind me. Here's my closet. She said she was going to like put it over my head and it was going to shine onto the closet so I could see it. And I'm like, okay, at this point, I'm like, show me the gift. Like what's going on? Show me the gift. And she goes, okay, ready? And she puts her hand on

my shoulder and I'm nine months pregnant and she leans me forward. And I'm at this point, I'm like, what are you doing? And she's like one, two. And right when she starts to say three, I, something literally screamed to get up. Like, get up. That's all I heard. In my head, sorry, I mean to scare you. No, you're fine. I'm like, it's giving me chills. And I literally jump up and run to my door and turn the light switch on. And when I do that, she's putting something back into her bag.

The news will tell you that I saw two metal objects. That's a lie. I never saw two metal objects. There's nowhere in any of my statements that I will tell you that I saw two metal objects. I couldn't see anything. It was pitch dark. But she's putting something back into her bag. And coincidence, what a big coincidence, her phone immediately rings.

and she answers a phone and starts talking to someone frantically in Spanish. And I'm like, I'm like standing at the light and I'm just like, fuck just happened. Like what just happened? And so like I'm alive. Like I'm not, I don't see it. What? That's all I could think. And so I, she's just talking to somebody.

I walk out of my room and I just go sit on my, like in my table where all the nail stuff is laid out and I just start doing my nails and I'm just I'm replaying everything in my head and I'm thinking in my head what just happened why did I feel that I'm alive nobody stabbed me but maybe she was going to stab me oh my gosh and then I start thinking back to SUV and I'm like okay if she's going to kill me like I can't say anything I can't tell her I know because if I tell her I know then she's just going to kill me but but if I do tell her I know or if I if I do call 911 and they come here then everybody, all my friends are going to think I'm crazy because I just accused our friend of trying to kill me when she was just trying to give me a gift. Like there were so many different aspects to this of being like a young teenager.

Yeah, I cared about what my friends thought of me. Absolutely I did. I also didn't want to be like give this accusation of this girl when nothing happened. All I had were these feelings and all I don't know what's going on. But with that being said, I now know what my feelings are and I'm not going to let those feelings go. But I'm the type of person, which could be bad. I'm an investigator. Like, I will very much, like, investigate until I can figure out whatever's going on.

And that's what I decided to do. So I decided, you know what? I'm just going to pretend like nothing happened. And I want to see what happened. Like, I want to see where her, like, body language. Obviously, if she starts getting, like, weird, I'll call the cops. But, like, I want to see what her body language is going to do. She comes in and she's normal.

Everything's normal. I don't even bring up the light. I don't even bring it up. I don't want to talk about the light. I'm like, let me just see what's going to. happen. So I'm sitting there doing my nails and she's like, I'm like, oh, who was that? And she was like, oh, it was Edwin. I was like, oh, what's going on? She was like, well, he's going to come down. He wants to take me out to dinner. And I was like, oh, she's leaving. She's leaving. She's going to

leave my house right now. Yes. So like, cool, she could leave. And she's like, yeah, he's going to come down right now and wants to take me out to dinner. She's like, but I have nothing to wear. And I was like, oh, I have a closet. Go into my closet. Go look in there. Go see what there is. She, at this point, would have been about five and a half to six months pregnant. She did have a little pudge. And I do remember at some point asking my mom, you know, why isn't she showing? My mom was like all women carry differently. And she has really big hips.

She's a really skinny girl, really skinny tall, probably about five, nine, five, ten. And she had a big butt, big hips and just really tiny. But she had a pudge and she would constantly like kind of go like this when she walked. So she, I mean, she looked like she could possibly be pregnant. So she could still fit in my clothes. Like my clothes would still fit her. So I told her, go into my closet, go find something to wear. At this point, I'm just thinking in my head, like, I get to get rid of her.

Like, she's going to leave. And everything's going to be fine. Like, whatever I was, whatever was happening. Like, that's all whatever. So she starts going through my closet and she closes the door and tries on some outfits. And she, right before she did that, though, I lit a candle in my room. There is no specific reasoning as to why I lit this candle. none. I just like candles. So it was it was a like a teacup candle and it was it was when those incense things

came out so you would put like the little dots on like drops onto it and then it would you know make it smell good. That's what it was. So I had lit the teacup candle before she even went back into my room and at that point that's that's on. She's now in my room looking through my closet and she pulls out some clothes. She tries them on. So you both are back in your room. At one point we are when I light the candle, she's pulling out clothes, laying them out, and then I leave her. And I close, she closes it. I give her privacy. She closes the door and she's starting to get dressed.

And she comes out and she's like, oh, I really like this. And I was like, cool, have it. Keep it. Never come back. Never come back. Like, I don't know. Give me some space right now and maybe you can come back later. But like, at this point, I'm just like, everything seems, again, I'm testing the waters.

And I'm like, at this point, if I can get rid of her, cool. Because nothing had happened. All I had were these feelings. and nothing had happened. She was been weird, but like nothing. So she closes the door, she tries them on, comes out. I tell her it looks cute. Have it. Go ahead and keep it. And I walk into my room and it smells like, what's that smell? And she's like, oh, I don't know. And I look at the candle and the candle's out. And I'm like, well, why is the candle out? And I look up at the fan. Like immediately you think like, did something blow the candle out? So I look up at the fan and I'm like, the fan's not on.

The air's not on. And I'm like, why is that candle out? She was like, oh, I don't know. And I was like, do you smell that? And she was like, no, I don't smell that. I was like, it smells like something's burning. And she was like, no. And now I'm just like, what? So then I start looking through my room. I look in my closet. I start opening drawers because I can't, I'm dead set that it doesn't smell like a candle went out. It smells like something's on fire. I can't find anything, though. There's nothing. No fire anywhere. So I'm just like, that's weird. And then this like image and thought come into my head, like, light another candle. So I'm like, okay, so I go grab another candle. I light it, put it back underneath there. And then she goes, oh, can I try this on? And I'm like,

yeah, go ahead. So she closes the door, goes back into the room, like, she goes back into the room, closes the door. And I go back and I sit down and I'm sitting there staring at my door. And I'm like, she's starting my house on fire. She's starting my house on fire. That's what's going on. You cannot convince me otherwise. There's not a lot to go off of, except for the fact that the candle went out and I smell something. So I go to now, now I'm going to tell you guys where my room is. My room is right here. My garage is right. Like the garage door is right here. Right here would be my pantry. And this is the kitchen. So I'm in the kitchen. I walk to the pantry so that I can see diagonal to my room and I can see her pacing. I could see her shadow. She's pacing back and forth,

back and forth, back and forth. Whatever's going on to that room, she's feeling uncomfortable about. So I pretend like I'm going through bags of chips and making noise. Because, Andrea, do you want some food? Are you hungry? No, no, no, I'm fine. Are you sure? And I'm just staring at the door, like, just messing with bags. And I can, I know something's going on. And I'm like, Angelique, she's starting your house on fire. She's starting your house on fire. So then instantly she opens a door. I ram myself back in there. And at this point, I'm a little aggressive. And I look at the candle and I go, why is the candle out again? And she's like, I don't know. I don't know what you're talking about. But it does smell a little weird. And I'm like, it smells like something's on fire.

And so then I'm like panicking at this point. And I start looking through everything. I do the exact same thing. I even run to my brother's room next door just to double check. The smell isn't coming from there. So I know for sure it's coming from my room. So I do the exact same thing. I look under my bed.

I look in my drawers. I look everywhere. The last place I look is my closet. And everything is in flames at this point. When I opened the closet, not even like five minutes prior, there was, I didn't see anything. So within that moment in five minutes, my whole closet is in flames. So, all my clothes are on fire. And I immediately start panicking.

And I don't even think about the fact that she started this. All I'm thinking about is my house is going to burn down if I don't put this fire out. So I frantically am like running to the kitchen, grabbing big pots, filling the pots. If I throw a pot at Cassandra and I'm like, fill the, I fill this up with water. Like, help me, help me. And so I'm running back and forth with pots and pans and I'm throwing it on the fire. And then I grab my phone. It's a flip phone.

That's what we had, you know, flip phone. So I grabbed the phone, pick it up, and I just panic. And I just dial the last person that called me, which was my best friend, Skyler. So he was the last person that called me. And I'm just like, click, click, click, click, click. And he's on the phone. And I'm like, call 911, my house is on fire. Help, help, help.

Like, he lives only like three minutes down the road. So he immediately calls 911. Was she helping you? I don't know. You don't remember? I don't remember her. I don't remember her actually like doing anything. I was just frantically like running back and forth.

but I did throw something at her to help. So I don't know if she actually was, but I just, I know that I did that. But I was putting the fire out. And at that point, my whole room is covered in smoke and I'm now coughing. Like I'm, I'm getting,

I'm inhaling so much smoke that I'm just like, I'm holding onto my bed and I'm just like, just like coughing and coughing. And then I'm starting to feel contractions at this point. So once I get the fire contained where it looks like it's out, Cassandra was standing next to me and she was coughing a lot too. I literally grabbed her by her, like, caller, and I dragged her outside. And I got her out, open the garage door and smoked to start, like, literally rolling out of my house. And we're both,

like, on the middle of, like, my driveway just coughing and coughing and coughing. My best friend had pulled up with his mom. And she's like, what's going on? Like, she's assessing everything. Cassandra, I don't know what happened at that point. I don't know where she went. I don't know if she went back in the house. I don't, I don't know. I literally went to my best friend and I pulled him aside and I'm shaking. And I'm like, Skyler, I need to tell you something. And I need you to just, I need you to just believe me. Like, what I'm about to say is going to be crazy, but I just need you to believe me. He's like, okay. And I said, I think she's trying to kill me. I think she was going to stab me. I think that she'd guide me this light. I think that she set my house on fire. And I'm talking just

like how I am now fast. And his eyes are just like, he doesn't believe me. He's like, what do you mean? And I'm like, I don't know how else to tell you. He's like this thought, this feeling. I said, yeah, like it was like literally somebody told me what was going to happen. He's like, so do you think you're psychic? I'm like, no. Like I just, I'm trying to explain this. But again, we're 17, 18. He's 17 actually. So like, what is this? Like normal people don't have like you don't just get these thoughts and these feelings and people don't just, I'm just a normal person. Why would someone come to my house and try to kill me? That's all I kept thinking. Like, why me? Like, why would this happen? So even in that very moment when I said it out loud,

it sounded nuts. And I started thinking I was crazy because nobody stabbed me. My house wasn't on, well, it was on fire. But like maybe there was an accident. Maybe something happened. Maybe I have laptops in there. Maybe something exploded. And so 911 at that point was already called.

People already started like getting to the house. The paramedics were there. The firefighters were there. The cops were there. My mom and dad had pulled up at the exact same time because I think Skyler's mom had called them and told them what was happening. And I decided to start. stay silent, to stay silent and let them do their investigation. So I'm being treated because I am

having contractions. I inhaled so much smoke, which caused the contractions to start. So Cassandra also was having contractions. So she's still there, which makes me think that I'm even crazier. Like, if you were trying to hurt me, wouldn't you run away? Wouldn't you leave? Like, if you think you're innocent, then you would stay. So I'm literally fighting back and forth with myself wondering, am I literally, like, am I nuts? Yeah. Am I losing my mind? Am I losing my mind? Am I losing my goddamn mind at this point because that's what I feel like. I feel like I've lost my train of thought, my mind, any type of like conclusion, just everything. It just feels like a bad, a bad dream. And so I'm letting them do their investigation. I'm not even saying anything. I'm just, I told Skyler,

also very important, told Skyler to Pinky promised me. Pull the pinkies out, everything. You don't tell a soul until I say that you can. He understood. So I'm sitting there. I'm being treated. She's sitting kind of like next to me. My mom was like sitting next to me and I was like, Cassandra was like crying. I'm not even crying, but she was like crying how much pain she's in. And my mom was like, Angela, you okay. And is it okay? I'm going to go sit next to Cassandra. She was worried about her. She doesn't have anybody, you know, she's by herself. My mom and dad are here. My best friends here. You know, I have people around me. So my mom was like, is it okay? I'm like, yeah, just go over there to her. Like, obviously she needs you. Like she needs somebody. She's crying. So my mom goes

over there. And my mom starts to like, you know, console her. Like, it's okay. hey, honey, it's okay. Everything's going to be fine. So my mom was like, oh, honey, it's okay. Like, you know, rubbing her back. And then the cop started to ask her questions, like about her. Like, what's your name? Where are you from? What, like, how many weeks are you? And everything, my mom started to catch on to things. Everything that she was telling us was not what she was telling to paramedics. Her full name was different. Her address was different. How many weeks she was different. Everything was different. My mom was like, hmm, it's strange. My mom started to think strange things too because she was like, that doesn't add up. But maybe she's just mistaken, you know?

My mom's obviously not thinking anything except for that. So then at that point, we had been sitting there for about oxygen, probably about 30 minutes while everybody's in the back. I hear the paramed. I hear the police, the fire department come out and they're like, oh, we found these batteries. I hear them say like maybe it blew, like something about blowing up. And in my head. I'm like, oh my God, she didn't start my house on fire. Like, it was an accident. Like, they're starting to investigate. They're coming out stating like, there's this, there's that. Like, maybe she didn't do anything. So I'm sitting there. I'm kind of just like obviously talking to myself about all of this. And then I get cleared. She's still sitting there in pain.

And all of a sudden, I see my mom, my best friend's mom talking to my parents. And they're doing this like powwow where they're like, and then they all look at me. And then I look at my best friend. And I go, you told your mom, didn't you? And he's like, Angelic, I had to. Like, if this is, if this is real and she really was trying to kill you, like, I just, I can't, I can't keep that to myself. And I'm like, you literally pinky promised me. Like, you broke the trust. So I think I was more mad about that. Like, you literally broke everything that I told you not to break. And, but then I said, then I said, thank you because I felt relief because I couldn't tell my parents. because I felt like they were just going to look at me like how my best friend looked at me.

If he didn't believe me, how are they going to believe me? They're adults. Like, they're just going to think I'm crazy or maybe I'm looking for attention. I don't know. I just started thinking all these weird thoughts. So she's still sitting there with the paramedics getting checked out. We all go inside my house. Our mom and dad are like, what happened?

Like, we're all sitting at the table. What happened? With her? Not with her. She's actually outside with the paramedics. Because she's, she is dead set on I'm in labor. I'm having contractions. Oh, yeah.

I forgot to mention. Also, while she's sitting there, she's, like, laughing and giggling, like, within crying. And then she's, like, talking to somebody. And she's like, me and my friend, Angelique, you're going to have our babies together. Angelique, what hospital are you going to? I want to make sure I go to the same hospital. And I'm like, don't let her come. Please.

Like, please. I'm like telling the paramedics, please don't let us go together. Like, I don't want to be next to her. And so, like, she was definitely like on and off, on and off. Hot cold, hot cold. So we all end up going inside my house and the cops are there with us and my mom and dad are like, Angela, like, what is going on? Like, why did Skyler's mom tell us that you thought you were going to die?

Like, what actually happened? And so I start word vomiting. Mom, she put me in the middle of the kitchen, told me to turn around and close my eyes. She kept giving me these gifts. It was weird. Then she told me, you know, to go into my room. She told me to close my eyes. She got behind me, put her hand on my shoulder.

And, you know, I start just, I think she was going to stab me. I think she was going to stab me right in my back. and like their their faces are just like why why do you think that and I'm like I just explained it to you why I think that like the cops are in there too listen the cops are in there they're like they're just like kind of going around and they're like they're overhearing but they weren't like sitting down with you and your parent okay no they weren't sitting down with us they were kind of going in and out and the paramedic you're mainly talking to your parents I was mainly talking to my parents and Skyler's mom and then Skyler was there got it and I was like

and they were like in the fire I said I don't know mom I I put my little teacup candle. It's out. The second one's out. And I go, she kept, they go, why was she in your room? And I'm like, because she wanted to try clothes on. And that's when the cops come in and the paramedics. And they're like, hey, she's having contractions.

She wants to go to the hospital. So we're grabbing her. She asks us to grab her things. And they start grabbing my clothes. Like the clothes that I was going to let her, like, borrow. And they start grabbing my clothes and they grab the bag. And I go, whoa, whoa, those are my clothes. Like, those are mine.

Like put those down. And they go, okay, is this hers? And I'm like, yeah. And then they go, they're about to like walk out the door. And I go, wait, wait, wait, wait. And I run over there. And I go, can I see that bag really quick? And they were like, okay.

And I grabbed the bag. And this is where the paramedics and the cops were there. They were standing right there with me. I grab it. I put it on top of the counter. And I go, mom, she kept saying she had this light for me. Like a pillow pet that like shine and it has Ryland's name on it. And I said, if it's in this bag, like, I'm crazy.

Like, obviously I'm nuts. I, I, I obviously just, I'm, you know, not making things up, but like, I'm just. crazy. Yeah. So I'm talking and as I'm kind of just talking to them as I do that, I put my hand into the bag. I don't feel anything except for metal. And I literally grab it, pull it out, and I got goosebumps, literally two large butcher knives. And that's all that was in the bag. A pair of scissors, disinfectant, and gloves. And I dropped them on the counter like that. And I literally look at everybody. And I said, I told you she was going to stab me. Like, I told you. And at that point, I went into like this weird like loop where I couldn't stop saying it.

I sat there saying, I told you she was going to stab me. I told you she was going to stab me. I told you. I just, I couldn't stop saying it. Like it was like now it was real. Now I didn't feel crazy. I felt like everything that I had felt that I was talking about with everyone looking at. I felt like it was confirmed.

Like why are you getting to large butcher knives with you a pair of scissors and disinfectant? And not to mention guys, all one of everything to take my baby. booties, a baby carrier, a receiving blanket, a regular blanket, a beating, one of everything, a newborn, one newborn diaper was in there. It was, it was insane. It was insane. And at that point, and obviously no pillow pet with the light shining. Obviously, no, she couldn't even do me the justice of getting me. Right. At least cover up your tools with that. Yes. Like, if you have this whole story, like, at least do that. But no, there was no, there was nothing in there. There was nothing in there except for the leftover of what I stated, the knives, the scissors, and all of that stuff.

And because she had stated, because she's pregnant, and now I'm going to start using air quotes, because she's pregnant, they have to take her to the hospital. They have to. Like, she has to go to the hospital. She's in distress, you know, whatever. So that was her way to get out. So they end up putting her in the, they end up putting her into like the paramedic, into the ambulance, and they take her to the hospital. And at this point, now detectives are called in. My whole sheet, my whole street is shut down. You can't get in. Nobody can get in. Nobody can get out. She was able to get out, but nobody else can get in. Nobody else can get out. So they put like literally blockers on my street and you can't. Like it's now a full like crime scene investigation. And they had asked

me, you know, why, how do you think the fire was started? I explained it. I said, Cheap candles. They said those were the only things that I had was a lighter left in here. No, I brought the lighter with me. The lighter was still sitting at the table. So they were able to see and confirm like, okay, it's there on the table. And they're now doing their investigation deeper, knowing that this is like what what we found and everything like that. And they end up finding, you know, forensics comes in, does like, you know, whatever they do. They ended up finding her fingerprints on both teacup candles. So why was she touching the teacup candles? Everybody always wants to know. She actually used that to start like a slow fire in my closet. So the first

time I went in, it was like building up, they said. And when she took that second one, something that she did went to boom. Like maybe I couldn't hear it, but something blew it up. and that's what caused all the flames. I personally don't understand the way that it all worked, but they were able to explain it like to a T in their report of how it happened, and they were able to pin that like on her for arson. Now the, she ended up going to the hospital.

She ended up leaving the hospital. Like she got there, they ran a test. She wasn't pregnant. She never was pregnant. And I think once they found that out, she escaped and got out of the hospital. Like she just left. And the cops were kind of just doing their investigation at that point.

My husband, who was my boyfriend at the time, though, he couldn't even get in. They didn't let him in for like two hours. Finally, they let him in. He sat there with me. He had just gotten off like a, he was working. We live in a small town, so he was doing, he was working on a farm with his friend. It's really weird, but it was like cotton picking season. I don't know.

On his friend's farm, that's what they do. And so he was like working like really long hours. And so he probably was like running off like two hours of sleep working like almost the whole day. and he was, I think he even thought it was crazy. Like everybody still, even after finding everything, everybody still questioned me like I was crazy. Right, because like technically she didn't stab me. Right. Yeah.

So now it's still like, did you put these butcher knives in there? Like now they really have to investigate everything and look at everybody as a suspect because what else are they supposed to do? I will say that in 2020, I did listen to my tape. of like when they interviewed me. So like literally fresh just like, all right, Angelo, we're gonna interview you like probably like maybe like an hour after she went to the hospital.

I've calmed down or not screaming anymore. Like they're interviewing me and they're asking me questions like, oh, are you sure like you weren't just like smoking weed in your room or like, and I'm like, ma'am, I am pregnant. Yeah. Like no, I was not smoking weed in my room. I guess she told them that. At some point she told them that we were smoking marijuana.

in my room and that's how the fire started. But like they were questioning me, like, they were laughing with me. They were like laughing and like making, I don't know. I didn't like it. Yeah. I didn't like it. Like in that moment, I don't remember all of that, but hearing it and hearing how distressed I am and hearing like how uncomfortable I am, they were very much dismissive.

Dismissive. And I do think that this comes back to I was a bad kid. I had been arrested a few times. I had went to Juvie for, you know, fighting with my mom. I had ditched school. Like, it's a small town. So, like, I had a reputation of being, like, this little thug kind of thing. Like, I just, I did.

I had, like, a reputation of it. And when I got pregnant, Rylund, and maybe I mentioned this in the beginning, but I actually was, I was on meth for a very short amount of time. But that was, like, my downfall. And then I got pregnant with Rylund. And he, I've been clean and sober since that day. Like, I haven't touched meth since that day because he changed my outlook on life altogether.

I knew that this baby, as much as I didn't want to be a teen mom and I didn't want to go through the heartache of, you know, I have a working jack in the box. Like, I didn't want to go through all of this. I also did not want to live the life that I was living. I didn't want to be a drug addict. I didn't want to. I felt like he was my only way out and that he was going to change my whole life for the better. And he did.

Like, he did. This was like my full on, like, Rylan saved my life more than he'll ever understand. He saved me from being whatever I could have been. And so I think that they look. at me like, oh, just this happened? Or, you know, like they were, they were very nonchalant, very dismissive. I didn't feel good about it. And also, we lived in a small town and like nothing like this ever happened. So it was kind of crazy. That night was very scary because she had not been caught and she was just kind of out and about, just kind of doing her own thing. And at that moment,

I had I told you guys I'm in my own investigator. I literally took things into my own hands. I found information about her. I felt like the cops were not doing things fast enough. So within like hours of just me researching and finding people, I ended finding out that I knew her cousin from middle school. We dated the same guy. Granted, she lived in a different town at this time. She lived like an hour away from me. But I was able to find like little connections of things that happened. I found an article from when she ran away when she was like 15 where they stated that. she was schizophrenic, manic depressive, bipolar, and that she had multi-personality syndrome. Now it's called MDD or DD or so now it's called something different.

But back then it was called like she had multiple like personalities. And at that point I like handed everything over to the cops. Like hey, this is where she used to live. This is who her family is. This is a news article on her. Like why haven't you guys found all of this? Like, why am I doing your job? Like, are you not understanding that, like, I'm scared?

Like, I'm terrified. I'm literally terrified for my life right now. And you guys were just pretending like, this didn't happen. Like, nothing, like, it's fine. Yeah. And I very much, I just felt like they didn't take me seriously. And that's an awful feeling. That's an awful feeling because then it just makes you feel like you're crazy again.

It didn't. It made me feel like I was crazy. Like, maybe this was all like a dream or maybe like I'm, maybe I'm feeling something. that I shouldn't be feeling. I don't know. It just, it felt weird. Yeah. So then they asked me if I would be willing to come in and call her and pretend like I have

no idea what's going on because she has no idea. She doesn't know what's going on. All she knows is that she was able to get out of my house and go to the hospital. And she doesn't know at this point that you know she wasn't actually pregnant. She has no idea. Okay. She has no idea that I looked through the bag. She has no idea.

She has no idea of anything. Got it. Do you have any questions between anything that I've said? You're doing so well. Like you hit everything. And like I'm very like so invested. I feel like I'm like this. Like the whole time.

I always have to think about it too like wild because like sometimes when I'll watch it back, I'm like I get so into it. At times that my faces, it's almost like I like melt. And I'm like, all right, I have to keep myself composed over here. Like I'm like like there's eyes on me too. Okay. Good. Good. Hey guys, today's episode is sponsored by Saley. If you are someone that loves to travel around the world,

but also always needs a good internet service, which honestly, who doesn't, then listen up. Saly is an ESM service app that allows you to choose from several different affordable plans, and it is available in over 190 countries and eight regions. For example, if you are somebody that loves to travel abroad and you have found yourself in a situation where you desperately needed internet and there was just no Wi-Fi spot in sight, then you will understand what difference it can make by having a local SIM card. An ESIM provides an internet connection wherever you travel, as well as saving you money on roaming fees. Some of my favorite things about Saley, obviously besides being able to stay connected all of the time, is that you can avoid scams, you can save a lot of time. For example,

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So they convince you or they ask you if you'd be willing to call her. Yes. So they asked me to come down to like the precinct, I think is what it's called. And I go in and it's just like a little, remember, we live in a small town. Like I had nothing. So it's like a trailer. And so I'm like sitting in there and they're like, okay. So they start like hooking things up.

up and like giving me these earphones and they're like recording and they're like, we're going to call from here, but it's going to link from your phone. Like, it's going to show your phone number. And I'm like, oh, this is cool. Like, I saw this in SVU. I actually think this is like super cool, though, because I'm like, wow, like I'm like investigating. Yeah. I make the best out of everything, to be completely honest. Even out of a bad situation, I'm like, oh, wow. Right. So we're sitting there and they actually give me questions. I don't remember exactly what the question. The questions were very like simple. They were like, okay, can you do this? Like, we need you to do this. like pretending like you have zero clue what's going on. And I'm like, okay, I can do that. Yeah, I can do that.

And so I'm like talking to her. So it's like ring, ring, ring. And she's like, hello. And I'm like, hi. I'm like, how are you? And she was like, I'm not feeling good. And I'm like, I heard you went to the hospital. Is everything okay? Did you have the baby? And she's like, no, no, I didn't. Thank you for, but thank you for calling and checking on me. And I'm like, of course, like I just didn't know what happened. Like you just all of a sudden went to the hospital. And I'm just, you know, can I ask you like what happened? And she was like, well, what do you mean? I said, well, they're questioning me and asking me, like, why my, like how the fire started. She's like, well, I don't, I don't know how that happened. And I'm like, no, I know. I don't either.

And I said, but they wanted me, their goal was to get her to admit that she was in the room alone. So that was my goal. They gave me like a goal, admit that she's in the room alone before the fire started. I was like, well, let's just like backtrack. I said, so I took the candle and I lit it. And then like you went into the room and you tried clothes on. She's like, yeah. And I said, and then like, you locked the door, you closed it. She was like, yeah, I go, but you did that twice. And you don't know how the candle went out? And she was like, no.

And I was like, okay. And I'm obviously not an investigator, but I'm like, okay, but again, you were in the room alone. Yeah. Let's make sure we get this here. Yeah. Let's make sure we're on the same page here. And she was like, yeah. And I go, well, did you tell them that we were smoking weed in my room?

She was like, no. And I was like, yeah, they said that. We were smoking weed in my room. We asked it, and that's how the fire started. She was like, no, I would never say that. And I was like, okay, I'm just making sure. But as we were talking, all of a sudden, you can hear this voice in the background saying Cassandra, hang the phone up. Like, very just, like, mad, and it was a man.

And all of a sudden you hear, and you hear click. And the cops look at me, and they're like, whoever that was, like, obviously caught on to what, like, what questions you were asking. And I'm just like, I'm obviously not a professional. I'm 18 years old. I just did, I'm 18 years old. I just did the job that you asked me to do. But we did get her to admit that she was in the room alone before the fire started with like the candle. So like that was something that they wanted for arson. So mission accomplished, we got that.

Yeah. But now there's this man that was obviously in the background that said all this. And the next very next day, I go into labor. Like I actually don't even go into labor. I actually go into the doctor's office and my blood pressure skyrocketing. You know, I even told them like some woman came to my house, tried to kill me, perform a C-section. on me, blah, blah, whatever.

And they're just like, what? And they're like, well, your blood pressure is elevated. Like, you have a lot of protein in your urine. Like, you have preeclampsia. So I went to the hospital and now it, I think I'm like three and a half weeks early at this point. So I go into the hospital and it's time for me now to deliver. So now my mission is kind of just to deliver Rylan, but I'm still like super scared.

Everybody's like scared. My family's scared for me. We don't know what's going to happen with this girl. She's obviously out and about. So they put. hops outside my room and like they put me as Jane Doe. So like my name isn't even put in the records of like they have me as Jane Doe, but like they know I'm Angelique Robledo. And so I'm having my baby. I'm having Ryland. It takes, I'm in the hospital for almost seven days. It took three

days to give birth and then four days after because I had just gone through a lot. Like throughout going the whole process of giving birth to Ryland was insane. It was scary. After I gave birth to him, I actually hemorrhage and I bled out and I passed out in a pedal of my own blood, which was like traumatizing too. I literally was in the bathroom and I passed out and like I had to pull my mom had had to pull the like the cord so that like the lights go shining but I literally was passed out in a puddle of my own blood in the bathroom. And so I remember after like they had given me like everything I think they gave me like blood transfusions and like after I was stable I would not let anyone touch Riland. I was convinced that like somebody was trying to kill me. And so I was like every time a

nurse would come in I'd be like show me your badge. Show me your badge. Like I was like so. just like scared that she was going to come back and there was plots. Like I just, my mind could not stop going that I was supposed to die. And I also had this full on like when I passed out, I thought like final destination. Like I wasn't supposed to live. Like this is how I'm supposed to die. So then I, like I'm just traumatized going through all of this thinking like I cheated death and I was supposed to die. And now I'm not going to be able to like watch my son be raised. And like I'm literally just fully like. And I just had a baby. So like I'm just. going crazy. And I remember four days had passed. I got out of the hospital and now I'm back at home

and there is no like security. There is nobody watching. Now it's just me, my baby and my mom and my dad and like my brothers. And I refuse to go into my room. I'm so scared of my room. Every time I went into my room, all I saw were flashbacks of like flames and just me feeling like the thoughts of like things happening and thoughts of me still thinking that knife was to my back. Like it just all kind of just I kept getting flashbacks. So I actually lived on the couch. And I stayed on the couch the whole time because I didn't want to go to my room at all. And like my boyfriend would come over and like he would sleep on the couch with me.

Like my parents were very much still like you can't live here. Like my parents didn't even accept him really. Like my dad actually had only met him once because my dad refused. My dad, we're a Mexican household. And my dad was like, this white boy. Like he was like, no, not happening. But then my dad started to let him come over more because. he realized, like, that's her comfort. And, like, this is Rylen's dad. And, like, she just went

through something insane. And, like, he was the only person that I felt like to protect me, like if something were to happen. So he started staying with us, like, with me on the couch. And we just kind of had our own little area. And within, like, a week and a half, still there was nothing on the case. They hadn't told me anything. They still hadn't caught her. I did, if you remember, I did say a little bit earlier that I did find out that I knew her cousin from high school, or from middle school. We dated the same guy. Well, there was a moment that I called her before

I went into labor and I word vomited to her. Like, do you know this girl named Cassandra? Like, I saw a picture of you and her on Facebook. I saw this on Myspace. Like, I started connecting everything. And I'm like, I don't know if you remember me. We used to date Chris and just try to like pinger into everything. And then she was like, yeah, I know Cassandra. And I was like, she came to my house with large butcher knives. I think she was going to kill me.

I think she was going to take my baby. And she's like, that's my cousin. And I'm like, oh, shit. I just, like, told her that her cousin, like, there's either one or two things that can happen. She could very much tell me to, like, you know, fuck off. Or she could be like, I believe you. Well, she believed me. She was like, I believe you. Like, my cousin's crazy.

She's like, there's a lot of things about her. Like, we don't even talk to her. Like, there's a lot of bad, like, bad things about her. And so that, like, kind of confirmed everything for me. And I said, does she actually have a sister that lives in Maricopa? And she was like, yes, she does. But she's out of the country right now. She's like, we can't even get a hold of her.

So we can't even, we don't know the address after where she lives. Like, we don't know anything. So nobody knows where she is, where she's posted, none of that. So that's just something I didn't bring up earlier. But we did have that conversation. So now, fast forward, it's a week and a half later. I've given birth. And all of a sudden, I wake up in the middle of the night.

It's like midnight. I think it's like March 7th. It's like I gave birth on the 26th. It was like March. Maybe it was the beginning of March somewhere in the first week of March. And I get a first week of March. phone call in the middle of the night and my mom comes into the room and she's or comes in the living room goes Angelique and I'm like yeah she's like it's Detective Turner and I was like okay so like I grab

the phone and I'm like hello and she's like we have her and I'm like what like we got her and I'm like what are you talking about and they're like we have Cassandra like we caught her she confessed everything Angelique and I'm like she confessed everything she said yes she was going to stab you perform a C-section on your body she was going to take the baby and the reason she started the fire was because she was hoping that you'd become like overcome with smoke so that when you passed out, she could do the C-section there because obviously I stopped her when she said three and I turned the light on. So game plan two was to start the fire so that I would be overcome with smoke and I would just pass out. And then she could perform the C-section. Then she also

thought, hey, this will also get rid of all the evidence. She'll burn with the body. The body will burn. Nobody will know what happened. It was actually kind of like diabolical, like for an 18-year-old to even like think that. And I remember just crying because I still had felt like no one believed me. I felt like this was like an imaginary thought that happened. Like I had told between the incident and between her being caught, I had told selective people, like selective people, maybe a couple family, maybe like, you know, few people that like were closer. And like they didn't believe me. They didn't believe me at all. because I just looked like this girl who was stating something happened, but like, yeah, I physically was not stabbed.

It does not mean that the trauma did not happen, though. But that's what people were kind of like insinuating. And that's how I felt with people's like demeanor, the demeanor of how they like came off when they would talk to me. So now this was like confirmation. And it went out to the news the whole next day. And it was on every news station like throughout the U.S. And at that point, I was getting like people apologizing to me, family members, like people

because she fully confessed everything. Did you find out what made her decide to confess? Yes, actually, that's very important. So remember I told you the cousin said the sister was out of, out of the country? The sister had gotten back that day. So whatever day she was arrested, that day the sister got back and the cousin called the sister and said, this is what's been going on. Like, we've been trying to get a hold of you, but we could not.

But Cassandra right now is being questioned and being like for, you know, attempting to kill this girl and take her baby. And the sister didn't even bat an eye and think that this was like nonsense. She called the cops and had them come to her house and said, she's here. She didn't tell Cassandra. Like she just called the cops and said, Cassandra's here. You can come here and question her. I know you've been looking for her because they couldn't find her.

Okay. So that's why the whole thing that the whole thing was the cops. And I don't even know how that works. I'm like, you guys couldn't find her. Right. But granted, like there was nobody knew who her family, her cousin, like nobody knew names to go off of all her friends that they were interviewing, like the police, like, we didn't know anything about her except for what she told us.

So at that point, like, we were just giving them in the information. So when the sister got back to the country, she called the cops, cops came and they questioned her there. And then they asked her, would you be okay coming down to the precinct with us and ask questioning you there? And that's when they arrested her. And that's when they get her confession and everything. It's a, I actually have it.

I have the recordings. I have like the CDs. and it's like three and a half hours of her just talking and talking and talking. But yeah, like she, I mean, within the confession, that's what she says. There, I remember, like, it was because it was blasted on like every news station, like I had family members now apologizing, like now calling and being like, I'm so sorry. Like, it's not that we didn't believe you. You know, you hear the excuses. It's not that we didn't believe you.

It's that this is unbelievable. Who does this? Like, if you look up fetal abduction and you look at something before 2011, like, it's, there's a few, there's a few stories, a few. And so it's not something that you commonly think what happens. I get why people think I was crazy because I also thought I was. Yeah. Did she say why she wanted to do this? Like, was there reasoning behind it?

And did she do it alone? So, or was it just because she was mentally ill? there was this is where it gets a little complicated it does it gets a little complicated um and it gets a little bit longer how much time do we have or it doesn't matter okay if you want to explain it you can do it it it does get a little complicated i explain it all in my story times i actually i i push my when i do my story time on ticot or like instagram tic talk i start off with like how like the kind of like everything that we went through and then i get down to sentencing and then i go to the dr phil show which is kind of important just because it kind of shows like everything that happened to me. And then I go to 2020,

which is where I actually, her release is where I find where I find actually the truth out. Okay. So I guess like this part, we're done with like she got arrested. We do go to sentencing a year later. Now, when we go to sentencing a year later, nobody has talked to me between the arrest and sentencing. Not that I remember. And I will say that that year is a very much big blur. I don't remember it. I don't, and it's really, I get, I get, I get really emotional because I don't even remember Rylin's first words. I don't remember his first steps.

I don't remember what his first food was. I don't remember. She stole literally my first year of my life because I was so just going through the motions and pretending, I wanted to pretend so badly that what had happened to me wasn't a big deal because I hadn't gone stabbed. So I thought, like, because I wasn't injured, like, there's no reason for me to feel this hurt and pain. And we didn't have social media like we have now.

We don't have TikTok. We didn't have Instagram. We didn't have people that were on there to influence and tell you like, it's okay. What you're feeling is normal. Like what you're feeling is normal to feel almost ashamed or guilty or whatever you're feeling like these are all normal things. And instead. And scared.

And I just went through the motions by myself. And are you okay? I'm fine. And obviously no like therapy or anything at this time. I never went. I had a therapist and unfortunately, she actually was moving out of state like a week later. And I, we didn't really have like video callings, but I think we had Skype. It wasn't known like how it is now. Like if I had the resources now, it would have been so different.

But because she had left and she was my child psychologist because I was a bad kid, like she was my child psychologist from when I was 16 all the way till, you know, obviously this happened. I had done one or two sessions with her and then she moved. And so I had felt like the one support system I had was gone. I don't want to find another one. I didn't feel like there. I didn't going, finding a therapist is like going on dates. Yeah. It's hard. Like you got to feel that connection with that person and trust them enough. And I was not able to feel connections with anybody. I feel like I was so numb, but you wouldn't have guessed it. Like I was happy. I was smiley. I acted just like myself. Like there was nobody could tell that I was just dying inside. And I mean,

my parents did a little bit because they did say for like a good year. Like if they were to come like wake me up, I would start swinging on them or like I would freak out. out, like, I would start just randomly screaming. Like, so, like, there were, I had PTSD and I definitely had moments that, you know, that people could say that they saw, but I acted normal. But when I sit there and think about things, like, for that whole year, I don't think anyone even called me. I don't remember having any conversations with, like, prosecutors, with the DA.

I don't even know the terminology for all these people, like, of who they are and what they do. But I just know nobody called me. Victims advocate, nothing. No one talked to me. at all. And then all of a sudden, randomly, it's like a year went by. And all of a sudden, I'm getting this phone call that, like, we're supposed to go to trial. And I'm just like, oh, okay. Like, I knew things could take time. And so I just trusted, like, the way the process

was working. And I didn't, I was scared to, like, ask questions about it. Because I felt like if I asked questions, I would break down. And I just didn't want that to happen. I knew that I had to work. I knew that I had to take care of my son. I knew that I had to continue life on. I survived. She was locked up. And that was good enough for me at that point. So all of a sudden they're talking to me and they're like, we want to offer a plea. And I'm like, wait, what? A plea? Like, why?

And they were like, well, at the time of her confession, they didn't read her her Miranda rights. What? What do you mean? Isn't that like the number one thing you're supposed to do? Like, it's like the first, I mean, I'm not a cop. I'm not a detective. But like, isn't that like the first thing you're supposed to do is like read them the Miranda rights when you're getting a confession?

when you're sitting there for hours, like, what? And they were like, yeah, so like, if we go to trial, like, without that confession, the whole case can be thrown. I said, but you have the butcher knives. You have her finger on the fingerprint, like her fingerprints. Like, I start naming, like, I'm, like, frantic at this point. And I'm like, you're telling me that she can walk. And she can go do this again to somebody.

What? Like, this is insane. And they were just like, we're sorry. But we do, we're talking to her lawyer. And we are, we're, we're, we're, offering a plea. Like, we want to see if you would be okay with this. And I'm like, what's the plea? There were like eight and a half years. They were like, we're going to give you the choice to choose either between Ash, which is the Arizona State Hospital, or you can choose to have her

go to prison. And I said, can I have some time to think about this? And they were like, yes. So I took like a few days. I thought about it. I very much wanted to send her to prison because that was like, you deserve to go to prison. Like, you did an awful thing. Like, bra, that's how I felt. But I took some time to think about it and I knew that she was mentally ill. So in my head, I thought, if I send her to Ash, the Arizona State Hospital, at some point in her life, whether it's prison or Ash, she's going to get out and she's going to need all the help she can get. So at least if I send her to ask, she can get the help she needs. And when she returns back to society, hopefully she'll be okay and she won't ever try to do this again to somebody. And they also convinced me and told, I say convinced,

because they told me that she wanted my baby for herself. That was what the story was, that she was mentally ill. She wants this baby. She had miscarriages. This was the baby that she wanted. She just mentally thought that I was carrying her child. So I actually felt really bad and pitied her. I actually felt horrible, like that she had gone through such like a horrible thing.

And that made her, you know, made her want to do this to me. And so that's like what the whole defense was. That's what everything went into. And I went with a plea bargain. I went to sentencing. I had written this like long letter, read it to her, and I literally bawled my eyes out. It was my first time seeing her in over a year. And like, I had rehearsed like what I was going to say multiple times and perfection.

I could say, I sat in front of the mirror and I was like, say it with confidence. Like I went into that courtroom thinking I'm going to be very confident. I'm not going to cry. I'm not going to cry. Oh no. No. The moment I went in, the tears, I was a mask. Mascar was everywhere.

I looked like a clown because it was just everywhere. I couldn't stop crying. I just couldn't. It was like all the emotions I had felt for that whole year had just like were literally bursting out of me. And so every second I was like, my name is Angela Leak. Like I just had, it was horrible. It probably should have taken like two minutes, but it took us like 15 minutes for me to read it. And I remember feeling so accomplished.

I felt so much better. And then it was her time to talk. They were like, okay, Cassandra, you can now speak. speak. She stood up and said, no, thank you, Your Honor. Sat down. Cassandra, this will be the last time you ever see this woman again. Do you want to say anything to her or her family? No, Your Honor, with a smirk on her face. I felt nothing but rage at that point. I don't know what I was expecting. I don't know if I was expecting her to say, I'm sorry. I don't even know if I'm sorry would actually like make me feel any better.

But like I wasn't expecting that. I wasn't expecting that. She, it looked heartless. It looked like she just did not care. And like she was just ready to go serve the rest of her sentencing. And I was like, wow, like she doesn't care. And that actually really made me sad. Like it really, really, really made me feel like really, really sad that she just did not care at all.

And then it made me regret. also sending her to Ash, but I still, I still stand by what I did. I still think that it's the best thing to do when somebody's mentally ill. And I still think that's what you should do. And then I just continued my life. And then that's when like, right when I had never given any statements to anybody. So when she had gotten arrested and every news station was outside my door trying to get a statement, trying to talk to me, I had declined all interviews with everybody. I didn't want to talk to anybody about it. So once sentencing happened, I had walked out and boom, there's like, you know, all Fox News, you know, everybody's outside of, outside the courtroom now trying to get

a statement from me. And that's my first time talking. I talk, you know, I told them, you know, I read the statement to her. I sent her to Ash, like, it's the end of my story, like, end of, you know, whatever's going on. And that's like when everybody wanted to start interviewing me. So I had been getting, like, phone calls from Anderson Cooper. I survived, like the ID channel. there were some other places that were calling me to. But I declined everybody because everybody wanted to take my story and maneuver into what they wanted. They wanted to like rewrite it and tell it their way and not like actually what happened. Like, oh, can we say that she like nicked you or let's say that she was your best friend and did this to you because that makes it more like, you know, more crazier that your best friend did this to you.

And I'm like, no, I'm not going to lie. Like either take my story how it is. or don't take it at all. Like, I don't care about being on TV. I don't care about doing any of this. Like, the only reason I do care is because I do feel like my story can help maybe another young, naive woman, the girl like me, maybe understand something. But, like, that's not my goal is to be famous off of this.

Yeah. And so I started declining places. Well, then Dr. Phil came along. His production team and his producers came, and they painted this beautiful picture about what they wanted the show to be about. They said, hey, like, you're a survivor. like what you went through was, you know, crazy, like the justice, like everything. Just we want to have you on our show so that we can tell your story, you can tell your story

and warn other mothers and do all these different things. And I was like, wow, like I said, I don't want to change anything about it. They said, that's fine. Like we don't want to. And I was like, wow, this is amazing. It's amazing. So they flew Ryland and I out. My mom even came out with us too.

And when we got on the show, everything had changed. Everything that they told me, like when you get on the show, this is going to happen. and that's going to happen. Like, you're going to walk on. This video is going to play. Then you're going to be able to tell your story. They give you like this outline of how it's supposed to happen. And I get on.

The video does play. I'm like, okay, cool. Like, in my head, I'm like, okay, I'm going to be okay. Like, yeah, there's a bunch of people in front of me, but I'll be okay. Oh, no. So that happens. And then all of a sudden, he immediately goes into this thing where he pulls up this board. And he goes, so I just want to name some things that you did.

This happened, but you did this. This happened, yet you still stayed. This happened, but this. And you were scared to ask your friend, are you trying to murder me? He's like, if it's gotten to that conversation, it's time for the friend to go home and then starts laughing and the audience is laughing. And you can see my whole demeanor. Like, you see my whole face. Like, I'm like embarrassed.

I'm shocked. I'm humiliated. I don't mind talking about red flags. And I don't mind bringing up like situations like for intuition. I don't mind doing that. But don't do that on national television. Yeah, they put you on the spot and then basically like made a fool out of you and the decisions you didn't, didn't make. Exactly.

And he cuts out a lot of the things like, yes, yes, Pineside, I could have done things differently. But why, if I did anything differently, like, would I be here? Like, you're talking to somebody who survived. So why are you going to nitpick all the little things that I could? could have done better because who knows if what I would have kicked her out of the house and then what she would have just came back and killed me the next day or maybe she would have found another pregnant woman to kill because I obviously wasn't too easy. Like there's so many different dynamics that come about.

And I, if he would have just asked me like, hey, Angela, would you be okay? Like if we just brought up some things and, you know, if he would have talked to me about it and maybe included me and not just threw me out to the wolves like that, this would have been different. But laughing at me, making me feel differently. also he told me the whole episode was supposed to be about like my story

because obviously it's long obviously there's so many different dynamics that come with it but that's not what happened that's how it was supposed to happen but when I got on the show that morning when I walked in they were like well we found this lady

who's obsessed with having babies so we're going to have her do like 30 minutes of the show and you're going to get like 20 minutes and I was like okay first off you thought it would be okay to just bring some woman around me that is obsessed with having baby

like the woman who tried to kill me. Like you think that's fine. I get that it's TV and I get that you're trying to build a show. But like why would you, you literally talked to me last night. And did you ever meet him before you went on or no? Okay. No, you don't meet Dr. Phil before you go on the show.

You do meet their whole like crew. You do go to like where they're at. And they like everything is like when you like walk and they'll be like, oh, put your hand on your head. Oh, look sad. Look the light switch light on. Like it's very much so dramatized. but it's kind of funny because I felt so weird.

Like walk down the street and just look like you're a sad puppy or something. You know, like it's so weird. And I didn't, like it was definitely weird, weird experience. But I don't know. Just everything that they said when I would be on the show was completely just backwards. And I do remember trying to defend myself and he cut all of that out. So people are always like, well, you were saying yes to everything. So you agree.

I said, I was saying yes because first off, I'm on like television and I'm scared. And I'm also just like, yeah, yeah. And then they're like, well, you were laughing. I was laughing because I was so nervous. Like you just put me in a situation that I don't even know how to act or say. Plus, they had full control of like removing or editing anything that they want. Absolutely. They can.

They can do anything that they want with that. Especially when I feel like he's doing so much talking. It's easier to kind of like him ask a question and just take snippets from what you said. Exactly. And that's what they do. And that's why it's hard. The Dr. Phil show, and I do know that the Dr. Phil show has helped other people. But in my situation, I'm just not.

I think he took my story and he just went with whatever he wanted to go with. And I get it. Like, it's your show. You want to make the views. And he also had a book that was being released. And I remember him specifically talking about this book. And he was like, I wrote this book about people just like you. Basically like that want to like people please.

And he's like, these about, I wrote this book. that's just like about people like you, which you can get on February something. Like, you know what I mean? Like he was like, which is going to be in stores. Well, it's just, it's screwed up because even though, you know, he's a big name and obviously everyone knows who he is, whatever, like these are real people that have gone through very traumatic things. And I think to, I feel like you have to, no matter how big you get, you still have to have

a sense of sympathy and know how to interact with humans. Like it's just if somebody's sitting there sharing the most vulnerable parts of their life and you're halfway through promoting your book, I mean, that's going to, I think that would make anybody feel kind of just like a like they're nothing or just like an object or just there. Yeah. Yeah. And that is how I felt. I do remember, I remember after the show, I remember crying, just crying on my way to the air. They literally get you off the show. He ignores you.

ignores you. And Robin comes up and is just like, oh my gosh, she did such a she's so sweet. I'm all making these voices. She actually is a very sweet woman. She actually comes up and just says how, you know, proud she is and you did a great job. The show was fantastic. And then they put you in like a limo and you leave to the airport. Bye. Very transactional. Very transactional. Very. Like it was and I remember just bawling. I cried my all the way to the airport. I even, And it's funny because the Dr. Phil show actually got released 14 years ago, like yesterday or the day before, yesterday or the day before. And I know this because my time hop keeps coming up. And I'm looking at all like the time hop stuff.

And I even like say how embarrassed I am. Like I felt like watching that show was just I didn't want anyone to watch it. I was excited to go on. So I told all my friends and family. But then when it was released, I was like, oh my God, I never want to watch this again. Right. And I think too, it's like you go into things like that, hoping that it's part of your healing journey. And it ends up just like plastering your story in a way that is embarrassing and exploitive.

You know, it's just not. You feel used. Yeah. And that's not a good feeling. And then not to mention when everybody had laughed at me, like when the audience laughed, I just thought they all agreed. So my experience on that show was, I think, was supposed to help me and empower me. And instead it made me feel like my trauma was nothing.

Yeah, small. Like, what I had gone through was nothing. Why talk about it? Why share it? Why try to spread awareness? Because you were stupid and naive and you just, yeah, like what you did was done. So like what's the point? Makes you feel like an idiot.

So I stopped talking. I didn't want to talk about it anymore. I just, I went home and I shredded every bit of like all the police reports, all the pictures, anything that portrayed to like what had happened. I took, I had a shred, like one of my little shredders and just started shredding it all. I didn't want to deal with it anymore because I literally felt like I was stupid. And that's an awful feeling to feel that way. And that's how I went for years. I just, I was already doing that in the beginning, like for the first year where I was pretending like

it didn't happen. But I didn't think I was stupid. I thought that, like, I thought that, I thought that, I thought that, like, I had survived something that people don't, that don't survive. Like, somehow what I did got me to live and my son to live and he took everything like he just his show just took everything away from me with that with talking and so I stopped and I did go on the ID channel they convinced me to do the ID channel they were really nice I liked it it would I wouldn't say anything bad I will say that documentaries things like that they're they have their own agenda they're going to pick and choose what they want to say like they think too I don't know if people realize this what's like these shows or you know even like

like you were saying some of the shows and interview things that reached out after, by trying to add different things to your story to make it seem more crazy or better, that diminishes what happened to you. Like by saying, can we just say, oh, she, like, nicked you a little bit? Like, I don't think that they realize it in a result, that's going to make you go home and feel like it wasn't as bad as it was when it was as bad as it was. Like, I don't think. That is exactly.

And I don't, I don't agree that you need to say. I don't like in my opinion it doesn't make a difference that her slicing your stomach a little bit or not like your story is your story and that that should be enough you would be you would be like mind blown on how many people are like so does she actually cut you? You don't know how many times people say that to me people in the comment sections will literally be like so did she like stab you like did you actually get hurt did anything actually happen to you or were you just like traumatized? And they'll put like traumatized. And I'm like, whoa, hold on.

Like one thing we're not going to do is come on to my page and do that. If you don't agree, that's fine. We can agree to disagree. But like, don't tell me because I didn't get stabbed or because I didn't get nicked or something that that makes anything worse or better. Like, just because I don't have a physical scar doesn't mean that I'm not dealing with this on a daily basis. Like this changed my life.

This changed my thought process of people, who they are, how they are, what people can do. it showed me all the danger that could happen in this world. Like, it's just like you can't just go based off of like what facts you think should have happened. And it's crazy that people actually think like that though. Right. It's sad. And that's why too, like I always say, you know, with this platform specifically, I'm not

here to go back and forth and question people or form opinions. Like obviously like we were talking about before, we're all human. We can have our own assumptions and thoughts. But like, who am I to sit here and judge somebody based on? what is traumatic to them and to me and anything in between. Oh, absolutely. Like everyone stories their own. Do your thing.

Say your thing. I'm just here to let you talk. You know what I mean? Like it just, it doesn't make sense to me why and how there are some shows that they would question anyone's reactions or thoughts or feelings. It doesn't make sense to me. Like it doesn't.

I do think things have changed now though. Not fully. I will say like full like now. Well, it's just still backwards. It's different now. Because now people can comment and question and ask. And obviously these people might not be as, you know, they can be hiding behind an account that has no followers, no pictures or anything.

But people still have this skewed mindset of judging people and how they react to things or how they should have reacted. And we don't, I think that there are a lot of people that want to help other people by sharing their story or when they listen to someone's story, they can sympathize and they can hear it and they can relate. Yeah, or they can just be open and not judge. But then there's this other group of people that are just still so like, like, it's almost like they crave to just pick, pick, pick.

Like, nothing's good enough. Oh, absolutely. And that's why I think it's so important for people to share their stories. You know, it's funny because, you know, you have the generation, not even like our parents. I'd say like our grandparents, there's this generation that's like, why are you talking? Why are you talking about your trauma? Like that's supposed to stay within the family or that's supposed to not be talked about because that's how they were raised.

They were raised to stay silent to hush. Don't share your trauma because there was no social media. There was nothing. And now in this day, people will take it as attention seeking or, you know, wanting to do this. It is so empowering to tell your story. It's you being able to tell your story how it happened and not getting the middle person of telling, you know, oh, well, what happened, Angelique, is this, this, and this. Like you even have people, and I don't mean anything bad by this, but you have people that do storytelling on TikTok.

And they'll try to, my story on TikTok is like an hour long and it's in 10 different parts. And they'll try to take my story and minimize it to like five minutes. And I'm like, you can't do that. Right. Like you can try, but you're not going to be able to get all the information or do any of that. But we live in a world now that people are intrigued. They want to understand. It's like you want to learn.

And I feel like my mom, my grandmother, they were like, why are you talking? And I'm like, grandma, what I'm saying and how I'm talking just because I say trauma is trauma. If you gone to a car accident, you probably still feel the same things that I feel. Just because I almost got murdered doesn't make my trauma bigger than your trauma. We can still feel the same things. You, things that I'm saying, you may go, wow, I understand that. I have PTSD or I'm trying to go through a healing journey or I'm trying to do this. And I feel the same things you feel.

it's because trauma, there is no, what are we trying to do, one up each other on trauma? Like, there's no, like, why? Yeah. There's no such thing as doing that. And I think that when people talk, people relate and they realize they're not crazy. And they realize that what they're feeling is normal. And it also helps people understand like, oh, maybe I should go to counseling or maybe I should try this type of therapy or maybe I shouldn't be ashamed of what happened to me.

I think it's so important. I think I love what you do with telling stories and having people do that because it gives them a voice that they didn't have. I was going to say too, I don't think a lot of the guests that come on here realize that their voice becomes a voice for a lot of the people that are watching and listening. You know, it allows them to not only feel heard and understood, but sometimes it gives them courage to start speaking up. And even if it doesn't lead them to sharing their own story, I think by you sharing yours, it makes them feel like, wow, at least something that I have felt

is being talked about and is getting out there. I agree. I do. I very much agree. And that's why these shows, like the Dr. Phil show, I'm glad that his show is canceled now, but like, that's why these shows are meant for profiting. They're meant for other things. And I think social media, like, if you're ever going to tell your story and you're not doing it on a podcast, you're not doing it this way, just try it. Try it just doing it. Even if you don't have a lot of views, like, who cares? That is like your version of your truth. And I can tell you that I've watched my story time, like over and over and over again. It doesn't matter how many comments or how many likes I have. I'm proud of myself. Like, I listen to myself and I hear the confidence. And if you would

hear me tell my story a year like five years ago there was no confidence the confidence has come now because it's empowering and i think too it's an important way to kind of i say this to a lot of my guests obviously no one should ever go through what you go through you know it's it's terrifying and it it causes a dent in your life for a period of time but i think when you're able to share your story and talk about it it gives it a little bit of light and purpose because you know that that you can turn it into something to help other people and to help yourself. And it gives you your own set of tools, I think, to help you become a stronger person. Oh, absolutely. That's the end of the Dr. Phil. Dr. Bill Park. This segment. Yeah, this segment. There will be more to come.

But there, so after all of that happened, I kind of just stayed silent for a very long. I did go on the ID channel. That was cool. It was whatever. Honestly, it was just whatever. It was kind of like scripted and it wasn't bad. It's just that they kind of focus on different things. I will say that anytime you watch a documentary, it's not 100% true. Like they take little pieces and they're like, let's focus on this or let's have this happen before this. Like they're just, it's just sometimes it's not. And I've talked to a lot of people that do like true crime, like that have had like documentaries and things and they'll all tell you the same thing. Like unless you're actually doing like a podcast like this or you're listening to their story time, you're never going to know

like 100% true. So that was kind of cool. I was like, okay. That's interesting. Yeah, I'm not the only person. So we're going to fast forward like all these years because I, between then and her being released. Was she in for eight and a half?

She was in for eight and a half. Okay. At this mental hospital. At this mental hospital. It's called Ash, the Arizona State Hospital. The only way that you can get into Ash is by like by being like detained basically. Okay. Got it.

So I, every, I will say every, six months, I said I didn't talk to anybody about all this and I probably didn't mention this anybody, but every six months, I would look her up on Google. And if you do that with the Arizona State Hospital, it will give you like a little summary telling you like they had a hearing. So every six months they have a hearing, they reevaluate within our plea agreement. If they evaluated her and they thought that she was mentally sane, like she's doing better. The meds are working. She should be like, she should be able to go home. Well, we had an agreement that that would not happen.

She would spend the rest of her sentencing in prison. So no matter what, she had to serve eight and a half years. I would look it up every six months. I would look it up. And it was always the same. Within like 10 seconds, the hearings only lasted 10 seconds because they would deny it. They would deny it. They'd be like, she's not mentally sane.

Like nothing's working. Like denial. You're not getting out. And I always made me feel so good. Like, oh my gosh. Like, good and bad. Bad because like I wanted her to get help. But good because I'm like, okay, good.

She's staying like where she needs to stay. And. It was clockwork every six months, every six months. Then we got down to when it was time for her to be released. Were you nervous at all? I was very nervous. And I don't know. I didn't time things correctly.

I had already given birth to all my three kids. I was done having babies. But I decided to just be a surrogate for somebody. Don't know why. I literally didn't put the timing, like of getting pregnant, IVF, all of that. So I was actually pregnant when she was being released, which I didn't realize. Like, I didn't put it all together. So when I found out that she was, someone called me and said, hey, like, she's going to be getting released August, but she has a hearing that you're able to speak, like, and come to if you'd like to do that.

It was in July. And I was like, no, no, like, I'm pregnant right now carrying someone else's baby. Like, I don't need to be near her. I don't need to be anywhere. Like, I just need to stay away. And it got closer and closer. She called me like a month prior. Then, like, two weeks came.

Then a week came. And I was like, I changed my mind. Like, I changed my mind. Like, I think I need to be there. I don't feel comfortable because I did look at all the records and every six months, they never thought that she was okay. The last six months, they did not think she was okay to be released. So why is it okay for her to be released now? What happened in six months?

You think that, I mean, obviously eight and a half years, nothing happened. So like, why are you trying to release her? Yeah. Because they can keep her. That was a part of the deal. Plead bargain. If they still think that you're mentally not stable, they can keep you past your sentencing. Okay.

And so that's what my goal was not to be cruel because I literally was concerned that every six months you did this evaluation and you guys denied her. And also your safety is my safety. Yeah. Like not even just mine like other women. Like what if you didn't release her six months ago because you thought she was okay, then why now? Right. That was my biggest question. Why now?

So I went to the, I ended up going. How was it seeing her? It was. It was the same thing as sentencing to be completely honest. Maybe even, I would actually even say maybe even worse. My best friend, my husband and my dad came with me. My mom was really sick. So she wasn't able to attend.

So that's where my dad came. We ended up, when you walk into the Arizona State Hospital, it's like, it looks like a prison. So like you're going through like, you know, all these detection guard are like metal detectors and things like that. And you get in, you sit in this little courtroom, like, type of hearing thing. And everybody's in there. So there's other people that are also there, like, getting their stuff done.

and like from Ash. And I remember I sat down. I'm sitting there and there's other people around. Then all of a sudden, like, I hear her name and I see her walk. And we both like look at each other. We make eye contact and like chills. I just get chills. And then like I look at my best friend and she's like, are you okay? And I'm like, no. Like I'm not like the tears. And every single time I say I'm going to go and they're strong. But like it's, you can't help it. Like sometimes it just takes over. and I just start like bawling. And then I'm just like, okay, contain yourself, Angelique, contain yourself. So then I start wiping the tears away and I'm like, okay, I'm doing this.

I'm doing, I came here for a purpose and I came here for a reason. So then I talk. And then they ask if anybody wants to talk. I start like reading out like, okay, we're here for the release of Cassandra, blah, blah, blah. They ask her to speak first. So she starts talking. I believe that I've been great. You know, I've done everything I need to do.

Like we believe, you know, they start talking about like what they believe, you know, how good she's doing. So then it's time. Does anybody interject? Like, anybody like, you know, need to talk. And then, like, I stand up and I walk up to the podium and I have, like, this thing in my hand and I'm just, like, trying to read it. And I realize that I can't. Like, it makes zero sense because, like, I'm crying. So I have to, like, take a second, turn around. I'm like, can I have a minute and I turn around? And I'm like, like, do this with confidence. Like, they're not going to believe you or try. Like, you need to do this with confidence. Like, you can't cry and make them, make them pity you. Like, I didn't want that.

I don't want people to pity me. I've always been very big about that. Like, don't pity me for what happened to me because I just don't like it. I don't like the feeling of that. So then I'm like, okay, put it down. And I was like, I just started talking. And I start bringing up facts. Like, I just want to understand why you guys think that six months ago she couldn't be released or, you know, a year and a half ago or two years ago. Like, I want to know what your guys' reasoning was, what you guys saw and why you think now is the perfect opportunity because she's her sentencing's over. So I just want you guys to explain that to me because I'm feeling unsafe about all of this. And like, God forbid she gets out and she does this is somebody else. And not to mention,

I've totally forgot to tell you guys that in our plea bargain, because they threw, they still threw the confession out, she is not known for attempt of fetal abduction. She only went away for arson. So on her records, everybody in Ash knows why she's there. They know that she tried to kill me and perform a C-section on me. They know that. But it's not actually in her records. Like, when you look her up, she went away for arson. Okay. So I don't know if that's what they were going off of. I don't know what was going on.

But I just, I questioned them and asked them. And I said, like, you're, you guys are expecting me to walk away from this feeling safe. I said, you're, you're going to just let her out into society and not even, not even, like, no one's going to check on her. No one's going to make sure. You're going to tell me you believe she's going to take all her medication. You're telling me you just trust her to do all of this because I don't. And they were starting to vote. Like, I guess like they could.

vote and be like, well, we're agreeing to still to release her. So I said a lot more. I just can't remember. But whatever I said, there was four men and one woman. And I don't want to somebody, I don't want to turn this into like a man, woman type of thing. But the four men were like, release her. The woman stood up and was like, this is insane. She was like, did any of you guys hear what this woman has stated? Like this, how scared she is? Like, no, like no. Like we need to take a recess and we need to go to the back. We need to discuss this. And the lady that I don't remember who I was with, but whoever called me to come to the release, she was like, I've never seen this before. Like I've worked here for 20 years and I've never ever have seen them do this

before. They literally paused everything and went to the back for like 30 minutes. And at that point, I had a panic attack. I went into the bathroom and I full on had like a panic attack. Like I couldn't breathe. I was holding onto the toilet like trying to throw up. Like it was so bad. My best friend was in there and I was screaming. I, somebody probably thought I was dying in there, but it's because, like, all the emotions were just coming out of me. And so then we go back in there and they end up deciding that they're still going to release her, but they did decide for one year that they would, like somebody would check and see if she's taking her meds. It wasn't what I wanted, but I still felt good doing that because it

was like sticking up for myself and my son. It was like putting, at least I can tell my son that I tried, that I tried to get her to stay. I tried to do this. Like, I just wanted to put an effort into it and not say that I didn't try everything I could. So I felt good. That opened up a huge can of worms, though. So she gets released in 2019. Did you ever hear about Save Our Children? No.

So there was this like hashtag going around and people are going to say it's like, it's like in a conspiracy theories, you know, save our children is like hashtag Save Our Children, basically kids that have been abducted or, you know, that get sex trafficked, stuff like that. Like that's what the whole like Save Our Children's is about is that, you know, it goes further deep into. to like the government and you know stuff like that you you can either choose to be a part of that

part or you can choose just to listen to like the fact that we're all here to say like our children should be like children should be saved that's realistically what it is well the reason why I bring that up is I because it's all of I did this article one time in like 2015 I think it was somebody from my town and it was called in Maricopa it was like a little news article like a little small thing they wanted to do like a little story because the ID channel came out and so I remember specifically the reporter. He came up to me and he was like, thank you for telling your story. Like I appreciate it. He's like, have you ever read the police report? And I was like, no. He's like, I think you should. And I was like, why? He was like, I just think that there's some

things that you don't know. And I was like, oh, he's like, like some things that the cops may have lied to you about. And I was like, oh. And he gave it to me and I started it. Trauma response. Just get rid of it all, you know. just I don't want to do it. I didn't want to do with it. And so when Save Our Children's came out, I remember those words were coming back into my head. And because of the release, it was really fresh. So I was like, I got a wild hair at my butt. I'm going to go figure some stuff out. I went down to the precinct. I grabbed the police report. I grabbed the CDs. I grabbed everything. I want all the evidence. Anything that you can give me, I want. So I had to wait a few days,

but I did get it. And when I got the police report, it was really long. So I was, I was like, I'd rather listen. So I was. like, we're going to listen to the confession than anything. So I end up getting all the CDs instead. And I read, I skimmed through the police report, but I'm not seeing anything. And then I start listening to the CDs. And I get to her, I listen to my voice. I listen to like some of the people they interviewed. Then I get to hers. It's three and a half hours long. And I actually, I don't have like a CD like in my, for my laptop. So I had to go into my car and put it in. And I sat in my driveway just listening. Then I started getting like really anxious because I'm

listening to her talk. And I start driving around my seat. city, like just listening for three hours. And nowhere in that confession did she ever state that she wanted my baby for herself. Not one time did she ever state that. She never stated that she was mentally ill. She never stated nothing. Nothing ever kind of got brought about about any of that. She did come up with some kind of, I would say bullshit stories, like trying to get out of things. Like, oh, why do you carry knives with you? Oh, I cook for some lady. And I cook for this old lady and she wants me to bring my own knives. So like there were some dumb things that she said in there. But once the cops got done with her, like once they were done,

You can tell that they were done. They were like, listen, we're here to help you. But, like, if you're just going to keep bullshitting us, like, we're just going to send you to jail. Like, we're just trying to help. But, like, at this point, we already have your confession. She already confessed, like, what she was going to do to me. She confessed that she did have the knife straight to my back. And that when I said three, when she said three, I startled her.

And that's why she pushed the knife and she put the knife back into the bag. So, like, that, I never knew that. I never knew that she physically, like, had the knife out to my back. So that was, that was kind of, like, resurfaced some things, like, knowing that. I was literally like nanoseconds away from dying was really scary. And then just like hearing about the smoke and how like how she plotted this. She says the fire was never a part of the plan. It was never a part of it.

She said that I kept messing the plan up. When plan A wasn't working, then there was plan B. When plan B wasn't working, then there was plan C. There was so many different things. And like she just kept on like kind of adding to the plan, which was actually very like, it's kind of weird. Like it's crazy. I feel like as an 18 year old, I would just given up.

have been like, okay, well, this isn't working. Like, I'm just going to go home. But, like, that's not what she thought. And then she kind of goes deeper into it. And she talks about a man that she is dating. So, oh, Edwin, the husband that she had is a real person, but he's actually hasn't dated her since he was 15. Okay.

So he is a real person, but that is not her husband. That was all fake. That was all a lie. So this whole time she told all of us that she had a husband. But that's who she was talking to on the phone. That's who she was talking to on the phone. So in the confession, she states that they ask her that. And she's like, no, like, we haven't dated.

Like, they questioned him too. And obviously they got that information. So this man, because remember the, so this is where we bring up the park. This is where we bring up the Spanish talking. This is where we bring up how she's married. The person that's supposed to come take her out on to date. The phone rang exactly after I stood up and, you know, startled her as a distraction. Like, all of these things are going to start to make sense.

She talks about how she's a part of a gang and how in this gang she belongs to this man. whose name I don't really know, but they call him Veto, I think, is what they said in, like, in there. And he's a part of, like, the South Side Chandler gang. And that he told her to get close to me. Like, she handpicked me because when Hannah introduced us, I was pregnant. I fit the, I fit the description. Me and her have similarities. We both have brown hair.

We both have brown eyes. We're both light-skinned Hispanics. There was a lot of things that she could pass off saying that this was her. If she got in trouble, like, this is my baby. I just gave birth, which hence made her lie about being pregnant this whole time. Then she went into labor and had this baby and here's my baby. But then it goes deeper into stating that they were just going, they had a buyer waiting over the border from Mexico.

So they were going to take care of the baby, make sure he was healthy, and then bring him to the border. And then they were going to live in Mexico together. And in the confession, like she, the way her wording is, it sounds like they've done this before. Like she goes, well, he usually does this. This usually happens. Like, so it almost sounds like this was like something that possibly maybe he forced her into,

which is sad. That is sad. Like I, you know, but no matter what, like you chose, this was your route that you chose. But I had never heard any of that stuff. And then also in the police report, I found the Miranda rights. They red her Miranda rights. So 2020 was a weird year because I was trying to pinpoint first off, like, why would the cops lie to me? Why would they tell me that they read her Miranda rights when they did her Miranda rights when they

didn't. Was this to catch bigger fish? Like, did they give her a plea that was on top? Like, they realized, like, we can't tell it. Like, obviously, I'm a civilian or, you know, like, you can't tell me everything. But, like, was this all to catch bigger fish? And, like, you guys just went with a plea bargain so that she can get out of it because maybe you wanted to catch the bigger person. Because I'll tell you in the police report, it ends right there. Nothing else happens. They don't talk about investigating. They don't talk about any. It's like, it's like all records are gone. So you think it's a bigger thing. It wasn't just. just her being crazy and wanting to steal your baby for herself, it might be like having to do

with like a gang and then they're like stealing multiple kids. Yes. Okay. She talks about how much money they're going to get for it. She talks about everything. So they even reselling these kids basically. Yes. Over the border.

Okay. And I will say that people are like, well, are you positive? No, I'm not, I'm not 100%. But like if you listen, like I even on my TikTok page there, I do post little clips of her confession in there of her talking. And you can hear her like exactly what exactly word for word what I'm saying to you. That's what she says. And I listened to the whole thing for three and a half hours and not once did she stay at it. It would make more sense to me to to if she said somewhere between there like, oh, I wanted a baby and I had miscarried. Like none of that was explained

though. Nothing like that. And I listened to the whole thing twice to see if I maybe missed something to see to understand. I wanted to understand better what was happening. I was happening. I wanted to understand what that guy meant when he said, like, you, I think the police lied to you. Like, obviously, I did this years and years later because I couldn't handle it. Yeah. But I had so many questions after she got released. I had so many questions that I wasn't ready to, like, talk about. And I personally believe, again, that I was used to catch bigger fish.

I think that that's what happened. I will never know the truth. I don't think I'm ever going to know, like, exactly what happened unless I, like, walk down there and say, like, I demand no answers. But I'm scared. Like, even telling my... I can tell my story. I can admit this and say this like to people. But if you were to tell me to like I should go down to the police like and say so, I'm terrified.

I don't know if I want. I want to know the truth for closure. But I also don't know if that would make me feel any better. I also think, you know, it wouldn't be as easy as. Yes or no. Yeah. Yeah. I think it would be a fight.

I think that there would be a lot of lying. It's stressful. It'd be stressful. And it's like she's already been released, you know, for since 2019 of August. And like me and her don't, we don't, we don't cross each other's paths. I stay. I do. I know where she is and I just stay away from that area.

Um, as I probably imagine that she stays away from me. Um, I do like know things about her. I just don't talk about them. And the reason I don't is because I respect her privacy. Even, even though she's like bad, you know, what she did was horrible. I still don't want to like. And she's never reached out to you. She's never reached out to me.

She's never reached out to me. I, she's had like, there's been like, There's been people that have, and I just ignore them because I don't want to poke the bear. I'm not here. You already served your sentencing. You already did what you did. I don't think it was justice. I do think that she deserved a lot longer.

I think that my case was played. I think there was so many things wrong with my case. And I just wasn't, I was so young and naive, and I didn't also want to deal with it. I didn't know how to deal with it. I didn't have the right tools, the right support system. I didn't have all of that around me to fight. the fight because I guarantee like if I had the strength that I have now and you were to tell me to go to court and do, oh, I would, I'd be fighting. But back then I couldn't. And I just have to

accept that and just be okay with that and just kind of move on from that. And, you know, people tell me all the time like, well, why do you? It seems like because you tell your story still, it's been 14 years. Like, why are you still doing it? I do it because I feel like the last, however many years, my story wasn't told correctly. I feel like it was downplayed. I feel like I was humiliated. I feel like there was incorrect facts. And now in today's day, I can actually tell my story for the truth and give you guys all of the information and also show you guys that like, you know, people talk about like the healing journey. You know, the healing journey, I don't believe you actually ever do get healed. You just kind of learn different coping mechanisms.

You learn how to deal with life better. And you learn to not allow your trauma to like take over your life. And that's what I've done. And talking about it doesn't mean that I'm obsessing over it. It doesn't mean that I'm not, you know, healing. It's actually helping me heal better. And it's also helping others, too, to realize they're not alone. Yeah. And I think, too, for a while, it seems like for the first few years or even longer, you kind of suppressed it and shut it down and you didn't really allow yourself to fully come out

and talk about it in detail. You weren't ready. So, you know, and everybody handles things differently like we were saying in the sense of somebody might be ready to talk about it in detail right away. But for you, it took years to get to that point. So even though it's been X amount of time, that doesn't mean that you don't have the right to speak about it now and speak about it in detail now. It's not, I don't think it's you harping on it either. I think it's just you finally coming around to feel confident and comfortable enough to share your story.

I agree. I have people that write me all the time and they're like, I wish I could be like you and tell my story. And I said, don't ever wish that you could be like somebody. Like, you're your own person. and I'm glad that like I can inspire you and I love that but like don't take your time like this is all going to be based off of how you feel it took me 14 years or we'll say 13 years it took me 13 years like that's a long it feels like a long time but it honestly feels like yesterday like it right it does and I just think that all together like you stated just all together like people

are going to kind of do things when they when it helps them like when it when it's their time and not to be ashamed about it and if it takes 20 years who cares it's still your story and it's still able to be shared. Yeah. And it's important no matter what, you know, no matter what, like you said, no matter when it is. But I do think that it's very important for people. I mean, the other thing, too, is like we were saying, you were so young that I think it takes the brain time to truly process what happened into, like, in my opinion, I guess what they say when you're adult when you're 18. But like, I don't think it's until you're in your mid-20s that your brain fully develops and can grasp things and understand things and even see things from a different

perspective and a different mindset. Like even if you approached what happened when you were 1819 and even if you talked about it then, I guarantee even if you compared how you viewed it and talked about it at that age to where you are now, it would be a completely different perspective. I think that you would just, you would view things differently and understand things differently. Oh, absolutely. I understand. things way more different than I did when I was younger. And I feel like, you know, I feel like if things happen now, it would be different. But that's because I've matured and that's because I've grown up. You're a different person. Yeah, I'm a different person. I've been through other things.

I've seen other things. It's just, it's different. It 100% is different. And I feel like once you build the confidence, that's like when you take, like I said, telling your story for yourself brings like that empowerment and like gives you that confidence where you're like, I can do. this. Like no longer, like, I won't say that I don't still have PTSD. I still don't have triggers. Absolutely. I do. It's never going to go away. I've just learned to cope differently with it. And I think people just need to understand that and be nice to themselves and understand that this is going to be something that you live with. But you can absolutely like empower yourself by by talking. Or if you don't want to talk, then just, I don't know, right. I'm writing a book. Yeah, I think that's

amazing. I think you should. I tell everybody that comes on here, I'm like, if you haven't written a book, you should. I think it's really important. But no, I think too, you were, I think mentioning this, saying too, by talking about it, it gives you a sense of like conquer and power over the situation. Maybe not fully because like you said, you still do have the, it gives you some sort of power over what happened. You know, you still have like the trauma and the PTSD from it there. But I think it allows you to take your voice back and take some control over the situation. And to just and to help others to raise awareness. And I think that that's also like a main fact.

Like for me personally, people are like, well, why do you do this? And I'm like, well, I do this because fetal abduction isn't talked about. Like it's, and I hate to put it like in this way, but like rape is talked about a lot. Murder is talked about a lot. Kidnapping is talked about a lot. Field abduction is not talked about a lot because it's not like it's not something that happens all the time. And I feel like if we can if we can teach young women or even just people to understand that and to understand like what it's not that when you're pregnant you should

stay away from everybody. It's that you just have to learn certain cues, different things, learning about your intuition, learning about anxiety, kind of just feeling it out and knowing different things. Look, I hate to say this, but we live in a scary world. Yes. And it's better to think twice and question everybody around you. then to play it naive and be like, no, this could never happen because you don't, you don't know. Yeah, you don't know. You know, and I do think that while, yes, we should live a life where we're positive and we know that we can't control other people and our surroundings and everything,

it is important to have an extra caution, you know, when dealing with people and inviting people into your life. Absolutely. Whether it has to do with pregnancy or not, people can be untrustworthy and scary and you got to be careful. You have to be. You have to be. That's why there's so much cry. It sucks. We live in a really. And the thing is, is we've always lived in a scary world. And we just weren't. I think it's just talked about more now. It's talked about more now. And I think that's what makes it. Because if you look back at like stuff that's happened years and years and years ago, like it's all, we've always lived in it. It's just it what we only learned about the serial killers. Like those are the only ones that were ever publicized or, you know, like that's it. Besides that, like women went missing every day.

kids go missing every day. Like, sad, sad stories. Exactly. And that's how we're going to learn from it. It builds a community, which I think is really important because, you know, there's so many different things that can happen. And it can get such down to these nitty-gritty things where it might only be a handful of people that experience it, maybe even less sometimes, but or that are willing to talk

about it or research it or come out about it. But it does form a small community where people feel heard, understood. they feel like they have a resource or an outlet to talk to or ask questions. And, you know, while yes, therapy is, you know, is great, can be great when you find the right one. I don't think there's anything like being able to directly talk to somebody that has been through something or that can relate to it or you feel like you can just like even ask questions or get a better understanding or really feel like, wow, they have been through exactly what I've been through.

They're not just like a professional giving me advice. advice. Yeah, it does make a big difference. It 100% does. And I will say that, you know, what's crazy about fetal abduction is that I think as far as my research and knowledge, there's only like one that I know of that survived. And so like all these women and babies that have died, like they can't tell you guys what it happened. They can't share people like kind of go back to like, why do you share your story? I don't just share my story for Ryland and I share my story for the women that can't, aren't able to sit here and tell you word for word on what happened and the mistakes that were made or the things that they did or warn you guys of this crime because they're not here.

And it makes me think of too when they said to you like, oh, can we say she nicked you or cut you a little bit? Like the disrespect in that, like, no, thank God she didn't because. Thank you. I'm like, why do you guys want me to be hurt more? Right. Would I be here now? Exactly. My son wouldn't be here. I look at my son all the time and he always, he gets so embarrassed. I always like start tearing up and he's like, mom. And I'm like, I'm like, I. I just love you. Like you have no idea. Like you have no idea like what could have happened.

I always sit there and I think about like when the whole Mexico thing came up and I, and I listened to it. I posted it onto my TikTok and my Instagram and it's literally just me recording, me sitting in the car like recording the actual like you'll see like my CD, whatever you call it. And my hand is shaking and I'm crying because it's my first time hearing it because all I can picture in the back of my head is what if some other woman was just raising my mind? baby, my son, like he's, that's what makes me even more. I think that makes me mad, though, when I think about it. It makes me mad thinking that she felt that way to take my baby.

Like if you're, you're, I know you're not a mom, but you're a mom to your, your cats, your dogs. Like if somebody were to just take that, that person away or if a, if a woman that's listening to this, think about your baby that you carry and think about that baby being taken away from you, like that thought just crushes you. It literally crushes every piece of me. me. So I just think, I just personally think that like a lot of women can understand and relate to that too, just the feeling and the thought of that, that how it destroys you. But I also want them to know, too, that like when it comes back to healing is that be easy on yourself, take your time. It took me years. I'm still, I still go to therapy. I'm in therapy every two weeks. I mean, I'm learning right now. What I'm learning is that I'm scared of everything in this world. So like within these last couple, my husband is like a big, um, I'm a, um, I'm learning. outdoorsy person. So loves to hike, loves to go on like a, what is it called, like in the lake and

kayak and quads and all the scary things that, you know, we could all get injured from. And I'm just like, why? Why? And I'm learning now to like open up more. Like now I go to the lake and I actually kayak too. I go on hikes. All the things that I'm scared of because I think I might die, I'm conquering little by little. And it feels amazing. But even with that being said, I'm still in counseling every two weeks because I deal with other things. that portray to my trauma but aren't exactly like it. But just be easy on yourself. It's going to take time.

It does, especially when you give in and allow to like. And it's hard not to. Allow to heal. It's very powerful. It's very powerful. It'll take over if you let it. It'll take over. And that is important.

People do have to be easy on themselves. And I think to some degree, you have to be willing and ready to kind of conquer those things. But it's also okay if you're not there yet. Oh, yeah. We deserve, we're allowed to sit and mourn and feel sad and scared. And we, I think the thing is you just can't sit in it too long. No, you can't because then it just, it destroys you.

It destroys you. Because that's what, I feel like that's what I did. And then when we went to the release, it kind of just opened up everything. I mean, the fact that I was just shredding everything was because you just want to forget. Yeah. You just want to pretend like it didn't happen. But it's honestly a part of your life and it's brought you to where you are now. Like people will say like, you know,

obviously I my one of my friends Hannah the one that introduced me she's like I feel awful like I feel like I feel like I did this to you because I introduced you and I'm like listen like if it didn't happen to me it would have happened to someone else not that I'm happy it happened to me I wish it didn't but I'm alive I'm here and if it didn't happen it would have happened to someone else and maybe that person wouldn't be alive I'm a very firm believer that everything happens for a reason even if it's something that we don't believe should have happened or there's some type of reasoning as to the events that have happened in life. Absolutely.

Well, was there anything else you think got it all? I think I got it all, unless you have any. You did amazing. That's what I just to say. No, seriously, thank you so much. And thank you for saying yes to coming on here. I appreciate it that you are such a good storyteller. And it really is so important to talk about.

And it's shocking. It's crazy. Like, it really is unbelievable. It's nuts. And obviously, I'm sorry that you experience people. I feel like trying to diminish it or take away from it because obviously that on its own can take a toll. And it sucks. I feel like for anybody to feel like your story needs to be twisted to seem worse than it actually was.

But you did incredible and it's something to be so proud of, even if it is how many 14 years later? My son will be 14 on February 26. Wow. February 16th is when it happened. So yeah, we're like days away. To be able to sit down, I always tell people to be able to sit down and talk about your story from beginning to end in detail. It takes a lot of strength and vulnerability and courage. And it doesn't matter if you, you know, have done it thousands of times. I feel like each time is its own journey. And I always just hope that by doing this, you know, again, or doing it in this format on this show can aid in some way and like kind of bringing it full circle and helping you feel more empowered and, you know, proud of yourself.

and, you know, sharing your story is not a small thing. So thank you. Well, thank you. This was honestly amazing. I really enjoyed this. I'm glad. It was so good. Thank you.

You did such a job. I'm like, I swear to you, I felt like I was like watching a movie in my head. I'm like looking at you and hearing you, but I'm also like envisioning it. And I'm like so, I was so invested. It's like you're a great storyteller. Thank you. And that's what I try to do. I really honestly do just because I, like I said, like reading, I'm a really big book

reader. You really should write a book. I am. I am. I actually love the beginning of my book too. You know how I told you in the very beginning you have to like understand someone to like understand their story? I talk about so like my very like the very beginning of my book I talk about intuition like first. It's like only like a good like three sentences. Then I go into just like kind of like discussing about the what a coulda shoulda, like I feel like it draws you in. But I do talk about how like you have to start from the beginning in order to understand somebody's stories. Kind of like how we started this podcast. Like you have to.

Right. Because then you don't know how the. people are going to be and then you have the judgmental people. But I always, but I am. I'm writing a book is really sometimes difficult, I will say. It's really time-consuming. It is. And something I do want to mention, I don't know if we said this, but I know in the beginning you were talking about, like, you know, whatever people want to say it was, God, your intuition, spirits, whatever, I do think that no matter what, what you believe in, we do have to give ourselves more credit. because humans are very, very powerful, more powerful than I think they realize. And it doesn't always have to be another thing that, like, gave you that feeling.

It could have very well been just you. Yeah, your instincts. Yeah, and we need to lean on that more. Like, people need to be more confident in themselves and in their intuition in life. Because if you're not, what are you just like going through the motions? You know what I mean? And that's actually very true. I see that's what I talk about when it comes to the intuition too just like it's it's crazy I can't I can't

I can't I'm like thinking about on top of my head I can't I very much I have like this whole thing that I talk about with it because I believe it's very powerful and powerful yeah there's that book it's called the gift of fear it's supposed to be about I have never read it it's everybody always recommends it whenever they hear my story they're always like you should read the gift of fear the gift of fear I think it's called the gift of fear okay something like that but it's supposed to be about like intuition and it's crazy. Like it opens your mind up to really understand and believe that like, yes, you can believe in these other powers, you know, whatever you want to believe in God or if you want to believe in like, you know, psychs, stuff like that. But like there's realistically, like

animals are built with instincts. We are, we have instincts also. And so sometimes you have to give your credit to yourself to understand that you very much, you know, your instinct kicked in. You kicked in. You took over. You made those choices. Like, so it's really cool. Yeah. Amazing. And obviously, too, if there's anything that you want me to link, like your TikToks and any other resources, anything else, just send it over whenever. Okay. And I'll put it in the description. Perfect. Yeah, we'll do that just so they can, if they need to go to the.

Yes, for sure. Like, just so much easier for them. Too, because some people, they like to like kind of watch things and clips as well. And, you know, like. Oh, absolutely. Keep up with you, obviously. I have people all the time that are like, can you post it on YouTube? And I'm like, I have no idea how to do that.

Right. So I was super. I told my husband, I was like, I'm so. excited because she's going to post this on YouTube and now I could be like, hey, because I would, it's like a different format of it. It's in a different format because I personally, I mean, I guess I could learn, but I don't want to. I personally don't want to. I'm like, I don't want to learn because then I would just have one video. Right. Yeah. It gives it, it also, I think it allows you when you do it in clips like that, it allows you to go into like more detail for like specific things and people like I always tell

people like, like I was saying before, if you have the time to do it and you're willing to, I think it's great. Like being able to post TikToks like that and just go into detail. And then it's, it's cool too because when people ask the questions, I know I see a lot of people in TikTok, they'll like put the question up and respond. And then you can reply. Yes, like with a video. So it's really cool.

And I think it allows people to if they have more questions, they can go over and like ask you or keep up with you or see if it's already been asked. So it'll be great. But seriously, thank you so much. Oh, you're very welcome. I have you enjoyed this. I enjoyed this. I enjoyed this. I was good.