We're All Insane - Battling Male Anorexia and Addiction

Episode Date: May 13, 2024

In this raw and powerful video, we delve into the courageous journey of Justin, who battles with two formidable demons: anorexia and addiction. Struggling against the societal stereotypes and misconceptions surrounding eating disorders and substance abuse, John opens up about his uphill battle, shedding light on the often overlooked intersectionality of these two afflictions. Justins Links: • SAMHSA - Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration: https://www.samhsa.gov/ • NEDA - National Eating Disorders Association: https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/ • Instagram: https://instagram.com/juuustinnnn_?igshid=MWQ2M2N6c2txeDg2dQ%3D%3D&utm_source=qr If you have a unique story you'd like to share on the podcast, please fill out this form: https://forms.gle/ZiHgdoK4PLRAddiB9 or send an email to [e-mail] Business Inquiries please contact: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, it's me DeVora. I just dropped an all new bonus episode inside my new subscription channel, We're All Insane Plus. This week's bonus episode is called My Brain was slipping into my spine. Listen now by subscribing to We're All Insane Plus inside your Spotify or Apple Podcasts app or go to we're all insane.com. Hi, my name is Justin. I struggle with anxiety, addiction, and anorexia. I would probably say that everything essentially started around the age of like 12 in a very, like it was in a way that I just didn't know what was going to be coming or what it was that was. like happening and basically what started everything was that I went on a trip and after we got all of those photos developed when you still had to develop photos. I saw what I looked like and I was like I just

had like that natural like it it is natural but just like when you're a little chunkier like here and there as a kid and you didn't see what you wanted to see yeah i just didn't i didn't like it um and right after i saw that photo and all of the other ones i i just wanted to do something about it and And I kind of at like no cost. Like I was like whatever it takes. I don't really know. But I asked my mom if I could become vegetarian. And this was a 12, right?

Yeah. Yeah. And she was like, you're pretty young. Like you're still growing. Like you need the protein. Like things like that, which now I understand. and I fought I fought her on it for a long time, but she did end up letting me do it

as long as I like had meals that consisted of some source of protein and all the other nutrients. But I actually like in hindsight, I think that that was me trying to basically diet without it seeming like a diet. Yeah. It was more of just like, hey, like I don't want to eat me anymore. Like da-da-da-da-da.

And do you think that like you got that idea from somewhere or like like why meat being taken out? I definitely got just from, oh gosh, what social media was even out during that time. I don't even know. I would probably say maybe like just the internet in general like hearing about being a vegetarian and like I think it was around the time that a few documentaries had come out about like factory farming and all of that stuff yep which I mean even to this day like I genuinely like I don't I don't agree with factory like I think it's horrible and animal cruelty and all of that yeah I just I think I was trying to disguise, like, wanting to lose weight and diet.

And just instead of saying that, I was just like, can I switch up, like, and not eat me? And then she, after some time, like, agreed. Did that for about, I want to say, like, a year and a half. And I ended up losing about, I don't know the exact number, but about 20-something pounds. And that got rid of like I became like pretty thin at that point. Not unhealthily thin.

Like I wasn't underweight yet. It just people would say like, oh, like you need some meat on your bones. Like those typical, you know. But I was still eating. I didn't have like I was learning how to cook like vegetarian meals and like all of that so it was fine but I just was starting to develop a lot of really unhealthy habits that carry on to this day yeah I just didn't realize it at the time but you weren't necessarily eating less you just at first you just cut out the meat yeah yeah and then it became dairy

and then it became you know just like cutting out one thing after the other But yeah, for a while it was, I maintained it pretty well. Didn't drop down too low or anything like that. But yeah, I just, it definitely planted the seed for like a lot of disordered eating, I would say. Did you, when you first originally lost like 20 something pounds, were you happy with the way you looked at that point. Yeah. But then it like it didn't stop there.

Like you wanted like more. Yeah. Okay. But and this kind of seems like it might sound weird, but I didn't at the time after I had lost that weight and felt better about myself. I didn't really. I wasn't actively thinking like I'm going to lose more. Okay.

I was just like in the mindset of like, all right, this diet. This diet is working. I'll just stick with it. Stick with it. Yeah. So, but after a while, after that like year and a half period, I actually went to Applebee's. And I always loved their chicken tender and fry basket. And I just, I just caved one day, actually with my mom.

She took me there. So, um... Did that make you sick or anything? Um, it made me a little nauseous. Okay, because I was going to say, if I, like, don't eat fried food or something for a while and then I eat it, I get, like, deathly ill. Yeah. Yeah. No, I totally know what you mean.

Yeah. It was, um... Yeah, it, like, tasted so good. Right. In the moment it tastes good, but the aftermath is, like, kill me. I was like, oh, yeah. Shouldn't have done that. And you feel so full because it's so much, like, like, it's like, like, it's like, like, it's

Like, oh my gosh, yeah, it was definitely, I mean, luckily I didn't get too too sick. But yeah, it was after that moment, I ate meat again regularly for a while. And that's what's interesting is that after the Applebee's incident or incident, I don't know. But after you decided to eat the chicken tenders Right after I caved Um Yeah I just I started eating kind of like normally again

And I didn't really have a whole lot of There were still some like thoughts that were unhealthy But for the most part I would eat what I wanted to Whenever I was hungry I would just eat until I was full like there were no additional thoughts. It was just as simple as that. But I stayed relatively thin.

So I was still having people like say, got to put some meat on your bones. Like have you eaten today? Like things like that. And I'm not going to say that that like, because I don't want to like blame anybody for anything. They didn't do anything. And they didn't know.

It was just, I look back now and I'm like, I don't know. It's just like comments from people like that. It can plant seeds. It definitely does. I agree. Yeah. So, and then I was around the time that I was just, I got back to just eating normally, I started having a lot of episodes of like anxiety, anxiety attacks, like, hypochondria.

I remember one summer I was probably like about to turn 13 or I'd just turn 13. Yeah. Around that time, I was home for the entire summer. And I had like a bruise on my knee or something. And at school, we had watched some, like, thing where this, like, character gets leukemia because she notices a bruise and then has, like, a fever and all of this stuff. And that, like, I don't know. So, like, it did something and, like, gave me some idea. So when I had that bruise, it was staying for a really long time.

And I literally convinced myself that I had leukemia. And like I remember like one night going down to my mom and just like panicking like in front of her. I was just panicking. And she was like, you need to calm now. And so I remember that being like my very first panic attack that I can remember. where I actually like kind of knew what was going on. But it was still scary because I was still so like I was so young and I just like I didn't I knew what was going on but I also didn't.

So it was really tough but it's also so confusing at that age. Right. I was really confused. Like I was like is this? Like what's going on? What's wrong with me? Just, yeah, like, yeah, I don't know. That was the kind of when I remember all of like the anxiety really starting.

I think I was always a very anxious child. But as time went on, it started presenting itself more and more and in different, more intense ways. I do feel like to when it comes to one thing, whether it's anxiety or like an eating disorder, I do think that multiple things go hand in hand. Like even how you mentioned addiction, having that, I feel like having an eating disorder can become an addiction in itself. It's like that addiction of like wanting to look a certain way or feeling like you have to stick to a certain way of eating or, you know what I mean?

And I feel like it seems like multiple things go hand in hand. I feel like it's kind of, I don't want to say rare, but I feel like it's more normal to see more than one thing than just like, oh, I just have this. Or, you know what I mean? There's always like little things that trickle in with it. It's like always a combination of something. Right. Also, I think if you're not eating enough or you're constantly worried about that,

that's going to lead to anxiety as well because that's going to be something that's just like spiraling and circling in your mind constantly. Yeah. If you're only focused on all of that stuff, it's going to be a bigger issue. especially because I wasn't actively trying to fix anything. I was just feeding it, you know. And so this all came from using a picture of yourself and not loving it. Yeah, like really despising how I looked at that age and just in those photos.

Right. Do you think that like comparison had anything to do with it? Like, were you comparing yourself to anybody you were seeing in magazines or on TV? Or do you think it really just came down to, like, I don't like the way I look simply because they don't like the way I look? I think it was a little bit of both. Definitely just from like TV and stuff like that, I would be like, I don't look like that. But I also, like, you know, those were probably like adults that I was watching. Right. Like at that age, we can't really do my, like at that, I don't even think, I think too,

it's interesting because I forget what age I started eating meat, but I didn't eat meat for a while when I was young and I was so thin. And it wasn't until I started eating meat that I feel like my body finally kind of like went through puberty and started developing and I got a little bit thicker. And it's like, it's interesting because that those ages, besides eating meat or not, we, everybody develops at different ages. You know what I mean? Like your body necessarily isn't going to be when you're 13. Yeah, you're right. Like, it definitely, I feel like it can be so natural. It's a lot easier said than done, but you, I think it's really important to, like, looking back, I should have listened to my mom, who was saying, like, you'll grow how you're

supposed to grow. Like, don't try, why are you trying to? We never listen. No. I never listen. I never I don't think you ever like listen or understand until you actually reach that point and it happens. Right. Right. Everyone can be telling you the perfect thing to do. That is the right thing to do. But you're just like, but I'm going to do it this way. Yeah, exactly.

And see how it goes. And it's not always for the better. No. So, yeah, I don't know. I would just say that, yeah, around that time, like that, the anxiety. from that time on just kept on getting, I was noticing it more almost. I was just, yeah, I was having more panic attacks.

I was having trouble at school, like, focusing, and it just, a lot of other random medical, like, illnesses that I thought I had, just like one week it was this, the other week it was something else. Like it was just ridiculous. And shortly after, just because I was so uncomfortable all the time, like physically and mentally, like just the symptoms of anxiety, like for me personally, my anxiety manifests a lot more as, as like physical symptoms. Same.

It's a nightmare. Yeah, like the sweaty palms and the... Mine, I feel like I'm going to vomit shit and pass out and die. That too. That too. It's terrible. It's horrible. I wouldn't wish it on anybody.

Hey, I'm Jeremy Schwartz from American Criminal. On this season, robbery gone wrong or cold-blooded murder. Either way, Boston will never be the same. Listen to American Criminal, the murder of Carol Stewart. wherever you get your podcasts or to get early ad free access subscribe in apple podcasts Spotify or at americancriminal.com and the worst part is is you know it's all in your head right like that is the worst part and like speaking of it just all being in your head like I even started thinking like do I have some kind of like like like like

like adrenal gland problem. Like do I produce too much adrenaline naturally? Because it feels like adrenaline. Like I don't even know. It's interesting too because I think that like when we're younger we can have like one form of anxiety or we can grow like you said you grew up as an anxious kid. Like I did too and I had anxiety symptoms that were very different than what I have now. It's almost like I got those under control and then new ones have formed as I've gotten older.

So it just kind of, I think that there are some people that your brain is just, it's always just circling and circling. It doesn't stop. And it's almost like if it's not just in your head, then it goes even further as to like causing the physical symptoms. And then it's really just like, okay, game over. Right. At that point, it's just like, what do I do? And I tried like self-regulation, like exercises, like just. the whole like trying to breathe and stuff.

And it's just like it just, it wasn't. No. It wasn't cutting it. As I'm sure you know, like it just sometimes it just doesn't most of the time. Yeah. I think too if like in those moments that you have that intense anxiety, you can be breathing and then for a split second you'll feel okay and then it's right back. And it's like, you know what I mean?

It's not really like it actually gets rid of it. Yeah. I think a lot of it too is like your environment, at least for me. Like if I'm home, I don't typically ever. get anxiety or if I'm with my family. I don't really get it because I'm comfortable. But as soon as I'm out of my comfort zone, game over. It's bad.

It's like I cannot get it under control. Yeah. Yeah. No, I totally understand. I mean, me too. I'd rather have like a needle that I just shoot something in my arm and I just pass out until it's gone. That's how I feel like, all right, I'll be back.

Like, it's so annoying. Right. It's the worst feeling. It really, it literally, I like I get it so bad sometimes that it literally feels. feels like I have the flu. Like I go from zero to 100. Totally fine to like, wait, maybe I have the flu because I feel so bad. And then as soon as I'm back in my comfort, it's gone.

What the fuck is wrong with us? Or like, right. I know. I'm like, why am I getting a migraine every other day or like a few times a week and throwing up from them? Because it's so fucking painful. Yeah. And it's all from, it all just came about, like from a panic.

or a stressful day or something. It's like a residual effect, if anything, if it's not in the moment, you know? So that was pretty bad for you when you were, what, like 13? Yeah, this is when I really started like understanding that this was anxiety, it was about 13. And did you go to a therapist or anything or did you get put on any type of medication or were you really just trying to deal with it yourself? I have, for the most part, trying to deal with it. on my own.

Like, I was like, this is just how I am. Yeah. Um, and I'm just going to have to learn how to manage it or live with it. But I have a vague memory of going to a therapist around that age. Um, and I only went once. If that says anything about how well it went. Yeah. There's many that I've only gone to once.

So I get it. Yeah. Right. Right. It wasn't a fit. It wasn't a good fit. And I don't think I was actually ready to start diving into that, but it also wasn't 100% my choice since I was still a minor. But once that didn't work is when a lot of the self-numbing came into play.

I just so like I'm in. probably like eighth grade now and that was I started using a lot of substances that just kind of just like anything I had gotten into a new friend group and um honestly like they were all like just involved in that so I had access but it started out with with like smoking weed, cigarettes. And then it escalated to things like, like, oh, like, let's take ecstasy. Like, da, da, da, da, like, just it, it was just like,

and it honestly, like, I'm not gonna lie. It was fun. Right. At most of the time, it was fun. I just now realize how much I was really like self-medicating. Was there, when you were taking those substances, did you find that there was a come down with any of them? Ecstasy for sure. Okay.

And I, like, even though I had fun, there were sometimes where I was scared. Because I already be. being an anxious person and then taking something that stimulates you, it like... Too much. Too much, especially on the come down, which might sound a little weird, but it's like a lot of the jitteriness and all of that hits, for me at least, it hits during the come down. and I would be out down for like maybe like a day and a half two days just recovering from that and then on Monday it was back to school like just you know so yeah I mean it started off like just innocently enough with like just weed and then but yeah and then it was like alcohol here and there whenever we could get it. We were like whenever I could get it.

And then I started drinking a lot. Now I look back and I'm like, that was a lot. But it was just, it wasn't all day, every day at that time. It was just like, okay, well, we're all like hanging out. like I have weed like let's go get a bottle and let's like take some shots and just like it was just having fun

at the time but to me I was like I'm I'm like it felt so much better because I was like oh like I can I could just have fun when you drink any I feel like do any type of drugs the whole thing is you can almost forget your reality of problems I mean even for me

like I had I started noticing that when I would take a shot or a couple shots before a dinner that I wasn't going to be that comfortable going to like I wouldn't think about it as much and the chances of me getting those panic attacks would happen less right so it's the most like you forget about your real issues and like your mind is taken off of it because you're drinking or because you're having fun and partying but I feel like a lot of times that's what it's it's there for unfortunately now that it's a good thing but and then you become dependent on that feeling Yeah, yeah. And it's kind of weird because I was like, even though you feel so awful after, like, whether it's ecstasy or drinking too much, like, had some gnarly hangovers as we all have. But and in that moment, I would, I would be like, okay, I'm not going to drink today. I'm not going to drink for like a few days or whatever.

it may have been. And sometimes I, like, it would be fine. I would, I would just drink, like, a few times a week with everybody or by myself. Like, I don't know. But I consistently, like, kept smoking weed. And that's, like, how you would cope with everything that was going on at that time. It was kind of, like, the main one that I was used, like, doing. And I don't regret that I think it can really help people personally.

And I think it's a better alternative than like, you know, ruining like your liver and, you know, just drinking too much and being like sloppy and all of that. But yeah, no, it definitely, it definitely helped and it took my mind off of everything in the moment. but it all like just hits you later the next day like five times it's hard i don't know it started bleeding into like my school like i would i would go to school like on i remember going to school on ecstasy one time middle school like and now i look back and i'm like that's so young and i'm at school and it's MDMA like that's a lot but it was what it was yeah it was it was crazy but at the time I was having fun while just not feeling like uncomfortable all the time so after that year I started just you know smoking even more and more frequently and all of that tried like certain things here

in there, like other other stuff and just trying to see like what I liked and what I did in. I was like experimenting and partying and having fun. And it was, it's crazy because it's, it kind of hit me in a way. How do I say this? I realized like later on how bad it was getting, like just how much, how much I was drinking. and how much I was doing like other stuff, it just got so out of hand. And I didn't, I almost didn't realize how fucked up I was all the time until I wasn't. Did your parents realize?

There were times that I got caught, like with weed in my room a few times. But you don't think they knew really like the severity of, No, they didn't know that I was using, like I never got caught with the ecstasy or anything like that. Like I was going out to raids. Yeah. Just, you know, hiding it as best as I could. But yeah, as far as I know, they didn't know all of that except for what I got caught with. So when I was going to high school is when it.

got over time it got really, really bad. I would, I just, I hated going to school. I couldn't stand it. Like, I didn't want to be there. I mean, a lot of people don't, but like I, like, didn't want to, I just, I didn't want to show up. I didn't care what was happening. Like, so I started going to school and I would bring in, you know, those like to go coffee cups, I would bring one of those with a little bit of whiskey, a lot of whiskey and coke. And I would cook. And I would just sip it throughout the day and just be like just kind of have a consistent buzz all day throughout school get out of school hang out with friends smoke all of that stuff and um yeah it just became kind of like an everyday thing of just being fucked up at school and that was this was sophomore year

And freshman year, I kind of went to school, like, a lot more. Sophomore year, I didn't give a shit. Like, I was ditching. I got, I lost credits because of truancy. Like, I graduated, like, a little late. Like, it's just crazy to look back on. But I was just having at the same time, like, I was having. having so much fun.

So I was just like, whatever. Like, I'm just going to do whatever. Like, this is, I don't know. I don't know how to word it. Just being like a teenager. Yeah. But also trying to understand what was going on, like, with the anxiety. Yeah, because you had underlying things going on that were not making you happy.

So. Yeah. And just. the uncomfortableness in my skin, like, ugh. Or, well, late, into sophomore year, like, maybe halfway in or so, I started using opioids. I started taking, first it was, like,

codeine, like, tablets, and then lor tabs, and then Perkissettes and also started taking those at school and all the time and like I remember

the first time that I took a Lorotab. I had I mean I had no taller it was my first time but I remember the feeling because I was sitting in class I remember the feeling I took it on like an

empty stomach so I really felt it but it was like I just for like the first time ever I was like I feel like completely normal and what is that exactly? Luritav yeah it's hydrocodone okay so it's like right underneath a percocet which is oxycodone got it yeah so it's not like super super strong but it's definitely effective yeah like you'll people get I get it for like wisdom tea surgery and stuff like that. But yeah, and it was literally from that point on that started the whole, the whole, like, crazy. I dove in really heavy into opiates and opioids. I was finding them wherever I could, mainly percocets.

sets, but it could have been any opiate that I could get it in my hands on. That was a pill. I don't know. And how old were you at this point? High school, right? Yeah, this was sophomore year. So I was about 15. Yeah. After sophomore year ended, I, over that following summer, is when I was introduced to heroin. It was cheaper. It was a lot stronger. Would you say that you were doing drugs every day at this point? Yeah. I was at least using opioids every day and mixing it with smoking weed and

occasionally mixing it without, well, I shouldn't say occasionally. It was probably more than that. But drinking with them too, just to like make them feel stronger. Yeah. and um yeah but during like the summer right before my junior year is when i started smoking heroin as well as um they were called roxies but they were like it was oxycodone without the um the I always mispronounce it, but like acidaminophen. Okay, yeah.

Ibiprofen. Yeah. Because the percocets have the oxy plus that. And if, you know, you take too many, like, it really messes with, like, your organs and stuff. But this pill, it was just oxycodone. And you would set it on, like, a piece of foil and have, like, a straw. and then smoke it the same way that you smoke heroin. So, like, if I didn't have heroin,

I would be smoking roxies. I look back now and I'm like, dude, you should have just, like, popped the oxy. You would have felt it way more than just smoking it. But, yeah, it was just, it was getting really crazy, like, really fast. But I, at the same time, I'm like I didn't want to give up that feeling because it just it felt so good and I like hate to say that

because I don't want to like glamorize it at all but yeah it got pretty intense and the way that that drug reacts with your body like i was you could like take a couple hits and then you're throwing up like just over and over and over and then you go back straight back and you take more hits and you're throwing up again and again and again it's just like a constant you get really hot you get really itchy it's you not out, like constantly, just like, like totally fucked up. But I think that's what I was looking for. I didn't, I liked the fact that it would put essentially put me to sleep while like feeling warm and just like, I don't know. zero anxiety almost zero emotion and then that so that went on for a few years and it got worse and worse and

worse using more and more and more um by the time that summer ended and i was going about to go into junior year like i went to i went to school junior year for two weeks I was enrolled and showed up, I think, five times split between two weeks. So I missed like multiple days both weeks. And then I was just like, I can't do this. I had to basically what was going on is like I would have to, in order just to get to school, I would have to wake up either fine heroin or smoke if I had some because I was waking up sick. I was starting to get, well, I had not.

I had been getting withdrawals whenever I didn't have anything. And how long until, like how long of not having it until withdrawal symptoms would come? Like was it just the day or was it longer than that? It's typically when you first start using it you can go longer without getting sick, at least for me. Yeah. But as it increased, I would say it would typically last, like, say I took like a percassette. I'd be good for like seven hours. And then you would want another one.

Yeah. Once it wore off at like the five hours, six hour mark, I would have a good like two hours. And what were the withdrawal symptoms? Oh, for me, it always started with cold sweats and stomach cramps, headaches, constant throwing up. But as soon as you would take another, you were fine. Mm-hmm. It completely takes it all away. So I would basically have to get well just to go to school.

And I was like now 16, only had been using heroin at least for like four months, maybe. but since it's so much stronger I would be able to go like maybe at first like maybe like 12 hours and then have a few hours to find some and then be good again but as time went on

it went all the way down to like I would smoke some and then if I like fell asleep I would wake up sick, even if it was only a couple hours. During that time, did you ever have thought of, like, I want to stop so that I don't feel this way anymore, or was that not really a thought in your head at that point? I don't know. It's really hard because you know the answer.

Yeah. But that solution is so incredible. Like, you just know what you're in for. Yeah, and you're, like, already so deep in. Yeah. And it's like, you're like, oh, like, basically. my thought process whenever I did have that thought

was like oh shit like if I give this up I'm gonna have to feel like shit for at least a week and then that's just the physical stuff

and then after that who knows how long the mental stuff lasts so it's like it's tough because you know the answer and you're telling yourself, just stop. Like, you can just give this up and then you can, like, you don't have to do all of this stuff just to function, kind of, because I wasn't really functioning.

Right. So, yeah, I ended up dropping out of school junior year. I started doing an online program just to get like the credits done and stuff, but I went through like multiple different online schools just to like find the right one or one that I liked. Some of them were more like rigid than others. And I was like I need something that's like a little easier because I have an addiction to maintain like that. that takes up all my time. So it was really hard to find that balance. Yeah. So this is your junior year. And during this time, were you still struggling with anorexia?

Or was that kind of like off the table? Because I feel like you said you were throwing up a lot also through this, through your addiction. So do you think that kind of went hand in hand? It kind of did. Yeah. And I wouldn't say that I was actively struggling with eating during that time, or eating disordered eating during that time. But I think you're too with when you're taking drugs, you don't really get super hungry, right?

Like that's not really even. Right. Okay. And exactly. It's like I was throwing up because it makes you so nauseous. And then on top of that, I wasn't eating because it would like kill the high and then also super nauseous. And so I started losing a lot of weight. And that's when I got, I dipped to like the underweight category or whatever.

I would say that's where certain behaviors like kind of came back up from. when you were younger when I was younger yeah so and when you say behaviors do you mean like just certain dieting things that you would do and stuff like that yeah and like like oh like I'll eat later like I don't need to eat right now like I'm nauseous or whatever but it wasn't to a level of like maybe I just didn't realize it at the time yeah you know so but I would say it definitely definitely started to kind of bubble back up at that point. I was getting comments from my family about how I looked, not like anything mean, just like, hey, like, you're doing okay.

Like, you're really underweight what's going on. But I was just like, I don't even really remember what I said, but I would just give excuses. It could be anything. Like, oh, like, I don't feel good. I'm too anxious. Like, my stomach hurts. I don't want to eat.

Like, I'll eat later. And do you recall at this point, were you viewing yourself as like, I like the way I look, I don't like the way I look, or was that not even a thought in your mind? It really wasn't that much of a thought just because... Your focus was like how you were. feeling. Yeah. And I mean, my whole mind or my whole mindset was just, or well, I was either high or I was needing to get high or I was sick. That was just the cycle and all that like my brain was consumed with. And were you doing it alone a lot or were you still in that friend group?

Um, I would do it a little. I would either go over to, because it wasn't like that whole specific friend group. It was like a different. That was kind of like the introduction. Yeah. So at first I would go over to a friend's house and we would smoke together all day and like put our money together to get more or whatever. And it was it worked in the moment because we had a place to be where like we couldn't, I mean, you know, you don't want to be doing that. Like out of park or something, like, or just in public. So we had a place to do it and to just be high and not out. Was it ever hard for you to find drugs? Yeah, sometimes. But I had like multiple backups. Yeah. Like a plan B and C and D. I can't be feeling sick. I got to have my people ready on standby. Yeah. And then you start like it's just crazy the things that you do to avoid getting sick. Like I remember having like a stash of like what.

whether it was Lortabs, Perkissets, like stuff that, like, wouldn't even get me high anymore. But it would at least make me feel a little better if I had nothing. So, yeah, it's just, like, it's crazy. But, yeah, I did start smoking alone a lot and just, like, being in my room all day, getting high. Since I was doing online school too Yeah It's like I didn't really have to be anywhere And if I did want to hang out with someone

It would We would be getting high together So And it wasn't like everyone that I was hanging out with It was like a select like few people That were also using it But yeah I started doing it alone a lot

even on top of that a little later probably like end of junior year i got this i was i found a tablet that i didn't know what it was googled the little markings on it it turned out to be oxymorphone which is if you know like what dilaudid is yeah it's basically if like dilaudid was laura tab okay and dilaudid is like a painkiller right yeah I think I took that when I got my boobs done and I got deathly fucking ill yeah I got so nauseous it was vomiting yeah exactly so it's like it's that feeling um yeah they give it to you in the they give it to a lot of people in the hospital for like surgery yeah yeah yeah I I think it's like one of their go-to.

Yeah. But oxymorphone is a step above that. Great. Yeah. I was like, I didn't even fucking know this existed. Like, what is this? I was Googling like, because the pill was weird. It was almost like I tried to cut into it.

And it was, it wasn't powder. It was like a really hard silicone, kind of like my phone case. Like it was hard as a rock. And I was like, what is this? And basically I ended up figuring out how to take it. So it's weird how much I know about this. but there's something called like bioavailability when you take a drug.

And from what I understand, it's what your body, it's how much of the drug your body absorbs. So different routes of administration, different ways of taking it, you can get a higher percentage of bioavailability so I learned through my research that if you swallow it you get about like 10% of the drug. If you snort it, you get, I think it shot up to like it was in like the, I could be wrong because it's been a while.

but it shot up significantly. Like I think probably like 70%, if I remember correctly. And then the last one would be like injecting it, which is like always 90, 99%. Yeah, so I snorted it. So did you have to, you got to crush it up obviously? Yeah, literally like it took me forever too. And this is something that where I really started using alone alone. was doing this because they were 30 milligram pills that I would have to cut into quarters

and then I would have four doses of seven and a half milligrams, which was like for me the perfect dose, anything over that. And I was throwing up consistent, like kind of like the dilaudid, like just horrible. It would take forever to cut it up small enough. to be able to snort it. And it just, it literally became a ritual, almost. Or, well, not even almost, like, it became a ritual. And I don't know, that was something else. Like, once I started using the oxymorphone, its brand name is Opana.

I think they took it off the market if I'm not, mistaken. I could be wrong on that. But once I started using the Opana, it was like, kind of like game changer. And I would, if I couldn't have that, then I would use heroin. And just flipping back and forth between those two. So it was just, yeah, it got insane. And that went on for another couple years doing that. And then it just strictly became the Opana, unless I couldn't find it. But that became rare and rare.

And besides obviously getting sick all the time, were there any other things that you noticed it was doing to your body? Did you have any other physical symptoms? Mm. Just in general, feeling very unwell. Yeah. And like, unless you were high, you felt like shit, basically. But I started, like, to look like shit. And people could tell, like, at least I think people could tell, like.

Like, probably what, like sunken in and stuff like that? Cheeks sunken in. I got really bad, dark circles. I would have occasionally like popped like not fully like pop blood vessels, but like my eyes always had like, they were just red and irritated from throwing up all the time and like that amount of pressure. Like it just, I would get headaches a lot too. I started getting a lot of migraines. and also when I didn't, I felt like I was more sensitive to pain after a while, that's probably the other thing that I noticed the most, which I forget the term for it, but it's something that has been documented of like people that take painkillers for, so long and then they're almost like they just become more sensitive to any form of pain when they like don't necessarily have either the right dose or the right drug or whatever it may be so yeah I don't know though probably just those two things but just starting to look really really

crappy yeah yeah and then one day um I wasn't going to be able to find the Opana anymore. I was losing my connect for that. And I was like, shit, like, what am I going to do? Like, I was like, I could just go back to heroin. But this was around the time where I kind of got lucky in this, in this way, where I that's where

heroin started like fentanyl started getting put into heroin and all of that and pressed like Xanax bars and things like that really any pill too and so luckily I

kind of dodged that but I yeah so I wasn't going to be able to find the upon it anymore and I did pick up heroin again once I found that out and I'm not going to say it didn't work. It still worked. I still felt it but not the same. My tolerance was completely different. Yeah. So I just didn't know what to do and I was like, I think I need to stop. like I need to stop all of this. So you made that decision on your own.

But it was out of panic. I wasn't necessarily like, oh, this is such a terrible lifestyle. It was more like, fuck, what am I going to do? I don't have a connect anymore. So like it was more in that mindset that I did this. But one night I went downstairs. at my parents' house when I lived with them. And my mom was sitting on the couch downstairs just watching TV.

It's like 11 at night. And I told her everything. I was like, I need to find a Suboxin doctor, and I need your help. And I was about to turn 18 at this point or had just turned 18. because a doctor, I don't think, at least at that time, I don't think it was very popular to give minors or anyone under 18 Suboxin. But yeah, so I went downstairs that night,

and I told her everything. And... How did she react? She handled it very well, in my opinion. She was just like... We'll do whatever it takes, and I'm proud of you for making this decision, and I'll help you. I think that she was just probably taken, like, aback a little. I think it caught her a little off guard.

I mean, I'm sure that she figured something was going on, especially towards the end. Right. But she never voiced it. I remember times nodding out in front of her and my dad like talking about like how I needed to do this class or this thing or whatever I was just out of it and they never said anything in that moment because I don't think they knew what it even was. So yeah.

But yeah, my mom handled it. amazing and very thankful for that. And I think it was like a few days later that we started looking for Suboxin doctors. And can you explain what that is exactly? Yeah. So Suboxin is a, it's, it's, A medication that is used to, it stops all withdrawal symptoms from opioids, but it doesn't get you high.

Okay. And also it. So it kind of helps like wean you off. Yeah. Yeah. It allows you to kind of like tackle why you're using and you don't have to feel sit. Yeah. You don't have to go through withdrawal.

Like the horrible withdrawal. Yeah. I mean, there's a period of time that you have to wait before you could start taking it. Because there's like an interaction that can happen where if you say you like did heroin at like 10 p.m. at night, if you take it like two hours later, the Suboxone or whenever you start to feel sick, you can get something. called precipitated withdrawal, which is like withdrawals times like intense withdrawals. It's horrible. And it lasts forever. But yeah.

So that can happen and it happened to me. It was scary. But yeah, I ended up finding a doctor. and he was just the best. He is the best. I still see him. Looking back, like, I'm really, I'm kind of proud of myself that I made that decision,

even though it wasn't necessarily out of the right, for the right reasons at the time. And how long ago was that? This was 2014. Okay. Yeah. And then since then, have you been clean? Yeah. Okay.

Also because, I mean, I'm sure I would have had slip-ups here and there. But the thing with Suboxin is that once you start taking it for a little bit and it builds up, if you try to take like any other opioid, you won't feel it. Okay. And how long do you have to be on that for? So it's kind of different for everyone. Some people will do like what's called an induction. They'll do an induction with a doctor in their office and then do like a quick taper for like maybe like a week, a couple weeks. And then other people can do.

do it for as long as they feel they need it and other people can be on it for years or for life. It kind of just depends on your situation, how you feel, how confident you feel in getting off of it is a really big thing. For me at least, I haven't gotten off of it because since 2014. Mm-hmm.

Wow. And I've been on the same dose the whole time. I haven't needed. Do you think for you it just kind of feels like a safety net? Yes. Yeah. It's like if I have it, then I'm okay. I don't have to think like.

Do you have like what would your fear be if you got off of it? I think I would go right back to using. Okay. So basically it's like the lack of confidence that you aren't ready to not be addicted to drugs yet. It's like the temptation. Right. Yeah. I don't know if I would be able to like resist that.

But also another layer of fear on top of that is now everything is laced. Right. So if I were to get off Suboxin and then. try to like um get high it could go south really quick right i could like OD just using that one time because i mean i just it was it was just different so many years ago like what is that how many years is that like seven yeah so i don't know it's just it's my safety net and it just um it just makes you feel more comfortable. Yeah, and it allows me to function and not have to stress about, you know, feeling sick. And then what about your anxiety? Were you able to get that under control

kind of around that time? So what's, what kind of sucks is that once I got, became stable on Suboxone. It was a little rocky in the beginning. Once I got stable on it, I noticed that all of that anxiety was coming back mentally and physically. But like physically,

it was, it was like 10 times worse than it was. And it was just horrible. And it was all coming back, because now I'm not numbing myself. And I had done that for so long. Yeah, the anxiety started coming back really bad,

and I had to... A thing with being on Suboxin, too, is that you see a therapist to try to figure out why you use. And I remember sitting in my first... therapist's office and we were just sitting there and I was trying to talk to her and I was just like shaking like uncontrollably and she was like she tried to like make me do like some breathing exercises and I started shaking more and hyperventilating and I had a panic attack while trying to like I guess meditate is what she was trying to make me do

So it was that bad. Like, it was really intense. And it all kind of ties back to control. Or being able to control that anxiety or control something, literally anything. I actually think that that's where a lot of the eating stuff started coming into play. I didn't know it at the time, but it's a form of control and also a bit of it's an addiction within itself. Basically what happened over time is that I started to avoid food. Not like a lot at first, but just like slowly.

I ate less and didn't have an appetite. I blamed it on the anxiety again, which it is a factor, but I don't want to like discount that. But it's just, I don't know. I don't even know how it got to where it did so quick. But yeah, it's almost like, okay, I'm trying to get clean from substances. but I have now I'm trying to tackle all of this shit and it's some it was just crazy It was like one thing after another

Yeah like it's like like oh sorry it's like whack a mole Like I'm like okay I got that Okay but now I have to deal with this and then there's this and it's just too much It was too much but yeah I just I started having a lot of really negative eating habits, just kind of like restricting what I ate by like food categories. I never really got into luckily purging or binging or anything like that. I just stopped eating. These Suboxone appointments, it ties into the Suboxone so much because at every appointment,

their monthly appointments. I get weighed. And if the doctor notices that I've lost weight, it's not good. It just doesn't go well. And I ended up getting down to, like, a couple years ago, got down to around the lowest I had ever been, which was about like 101, 102.

At that appointment, he was like, if you go below 100 pounds, I would have to request that you be admitted to like inpatient. I've always refused to go to inpatient. it's something that scares the hell out of me just because I don't want to be locked in somewhere or well not locked in but like you know and you really have no control right it all comes back to that yeah like it's something that I never want to have to do

but he was just like and that kind of scared me when he said that well it scared me a lot and I was trying to figure out okay what am I going to do I need to I need to gain weight and it's not that I was afraid to gain weight I just I would try but my brain would fight me and then I wouldn't gain the weight if anything I would just like kind of plateau and stay the same and that just came from not eating yeah a lot of with the anorexia a lot of at least things that I do

or the habits is I is the restriction of like okay I can't eat this I'm not going to eat that at one time was living off of like a typical day

was coffee in the morning and then nothing all day and then eating something relatively small at night. And I just went on like that for, I mean, I still do it to this day. When it's bad, I'll still do that. So you think you kind of go through like waves, like some days are better than other days.

Yeah, it's almost like almost by like months too. Like some months or times of the year are like just worse. than others or if I'm really stressed out I won't eat so basically like in order for you to eat more like it has to be like a conscious thought like you telling yourself I need to eat it's not like do you not really get hungry I do but you just choose not to eat yeah and that within itself is the control I was going to say like it seems like it's that control factor So at this point, do you think it's mainly that versus like the way that you look? Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Because I'm not necessarily like afraid to gain weight. I mean, I know that I need to just to be healthier. But it's really hard because your mind like fights back against that. I could tell myself all day, okay, I need to eat. all right let me go make something to eat and I'll just put it off yeah I'll just put it off

and I'll put it off and I'll put it off first for some reason it's always I won't eat anything for the whole day and then I'll have something at night maybe but it's like little things like ramen mashed potatoes like rice But never like a full meal. Never a full, rounded meal, no. And that's been really difficult to try and change. I've seen a dietitian, nutritionist, multiple therapists. Some, well, all of them never specialized in eating disorders.

Some of them claim to they did not. the one that I'm with now does. So finally, like years later, I can really try to tackle it with someone that knows what she's doing. And, but even then, it's like, even like with the whole, like, dietician and seeing, like, the,

all of the medical professionals, it's like, they can, tell you all day, like, what to do, but you have to actually do it. Yeah, it's like still a battle within yourself. Yeah, like, they would tell me, like, my dietitian would be, like, we literally made a list for the grocery store, and it wasn't, it wasn't anything crazy. It was literally what I already but like she was like okay now go to the store after this appointment right and i never could she told me multiple times to do that and i never i never did and because i the control i i've always had an issue with people telling me what to do if someone tells me what to do if someone tells me

what to do. It's like... You don't want to do it. Mm-mm. Or I'll figure out another way to do it. Yeah. Basically, like, I guess more on the restriction to kind of explain that a little more. It's like, it's difficult because I, like, at least what my brain is telling me is, like, you can't eat meat. Like, specifically, like, red meat, no fish of any kind.

Like, it's very specific, like, food groups that I just am afraid to touch. At first, I kind of cut them out willingly. I still liked eating them. Like, it still tasted good, but I was like, no, like, I'm not going to do it. It was, it's kind of, like, another form. It's a more intense form of, like, wanting to be a vegetarian at 12. But now it's just, like, no, like, I'm not. eating that, that, that, that, that, that, or that or that. And it's basically all protein. I can't

eat. Like, you know. Don't want to. Yeah. They're called safe foods. So, like, my safe foods are, like, the mashed potatoes and the pasta, like, a lot of just carbs. And I can do, like, some vegetables and fruits and stuff like that, but I just don't take the time to prepare them into like a meal. It's actually like a lot of work. Like that within itself is really learning how to cook again for the, but for the first time. Like I don't remember anything from when I was younger trying to do that. Yeah, I don't know. It's cutting out a lot of the necessary things that you need to in order to gain weight. Yeah, and I feel like to be healthy overall, too.

Yeah, definitely. And so it's like all of these people are telling me, like, just do this, just do this, just do this, and I'm like, okay. And then I get home and I'm like, no. You can't, right? So that's still something that you struggle with to this day. Yes, yeah. Over the years, there's been better times and worse times, kind of just like that up and down.

but the dietitian was actually, for the first time, was like just recently this year, but I was only covered for five appointments with them, like through my insurance, and we tried to get more, and I got denied. So I don't see her anymore. But also, to be completely honest, I wasn't doing the work.

So I'm like, when she was, like, do you want me to try the prior authorization again? I was like, no, it's honestly fine. I'll figure it out. And she was like, all right, well, call me if you change your mind. Like, you know. But it's scary because, like, I have been, a feeding tube has been put on the table if I dip below a certain amount or a certain weight, and that's terrifying. Inpatient. has been on the table. I really don't want to do that. All of these things have like all of these like options have been given to me and I either don't want them or I can't get myself, bring myself to do it. And it's it's the most frustrating thing ever. Interesting. It's probably not the right word.

but when I was younger, I had a friend that, like in high school, who I met in middle school, ended up struggling with anorexia herself and ended up passing away from complications of it. I didn't fully understand what she was going through at the time. Like, she would talk to me about it, but I didn't, I didn't really, really grasp it or I didn't fully understand and like she would wear a lot of baggy clothes so I didn't really see I could see it going from like her face and her neck but I didn't know like how thin she had actually got and then one day like I saw her like without like a coat on and like it was just like a tank top and like some sweatpants and I was like I didn't think. I didn't

say anything to her, but I was just like in my head, I was like, oh my God, like, it scared me. And I'm just like, it's weird because now I'm like, God, like, I could have like, I don't know, maybe we could have helped each other out if we were going through it to the same degree at the same time. And it's almost like you've seen the negativities of it, but you still can't get yourself to do what you should be doing. Right. Yeah, exactly. Like just seeing what it does and like I still keep in touch with her mom. I could never imagine like losing like your child. That would be horrible like no matter the circumstance. And to know that like I feel guilty because I'm like I'm doing the same thing to my family.

And I think too it might be something where it might always linger around and be there. It might be something that you always kind of have to manage. But hopefully with time and with effort and therapy and whatever else that you can get it under control a little bit better. Yeah, I hope so. and I want to Yeah That's that that's kind of the thing It's like I want to

It's hard It's just yeah It's like trying to change a lot of habits All at once And you know You're told like just take it one step at a time Tackle one thing at a time But it's like

I don't have the energy To like physically do a whole lot So how am I going to start going on walks? Because I can't do heavy exercise of any kind. A, because I can't burn the calories. And B, because I could injure myself easier. Not to, like, jump around too much. But, like, that's almost a whole other thing in itself.

The effects of it is why. what I'm really noticing now, and I guess have been for the past year and a half or so, like losing a lot of hair. My skin, it's dry, flaky, irritated, gets super red easily, like, itchy. And like my skin on my, like, every, My whole body feels dry.

I, like, my joints crack a lot and they hurt a lot. My hands and my feet get tingly. Like, the top of my head gets tingly. Like, it's just the most insane shit to feel. Yeah. And to know that I'm doing that because of, I mean, the habits. Right.

It's just, yeah. And that makes you feel even worse because you're like, fuck, I know I'm doing this to myself. I can't, but I can't bring myself to turn it around. And I must feel like that is what addiction is. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah.

And so many people experience that in so many different types of ways. Right. In so many different forms. Yeah. Yeah. But I know that I can recover. And you will. Yeah, I will.

It's just going to take... It takes time. Yeah, it takes a lot of time. And honestly, like, I do have to put in more effort. Yeah. Because I know I'm not doing everything I can be doing. And hopefully you get to a point to that when you really feel ready and inclined, then you just do.

Right. and it almost just becomes natural like it's just there right yeah yeah like you don't have to like force yourself to do it right like I would love to be back at a point where I'm just eating when I'm hungry yeah eat till I'm full and also eat whatever I want right and not feel like I have to cut out this or that or this or restrict yourself yeah yeah but Well, no, I mean, like I said, too, I think that, like we said, addiction comes in so many different forms. And I feel like even the fact that you're so open with the fact that it is still something that's so prevalent in your life that you are still struggling with, like, there's no shame in that. You know, everybody struggles with something.

And there are so many people that, whether it's eating or drugs or whatever it might be, that they probably have a struggle to that they can relate to. And they know that feeling of like, I know I should stop, but I can't get myself to do it. Right. So that's why they always say I think it's so important for different people to come on and explain what they're going through. Because I think the interesting thing about your story is that a lot of people that have come on here, they are recovered or they're at a place where like happy ending, they're better. But with you, it's like you're still in it. And it has been a part of your life for so long, but it's still something you struggle with. But that's the reality of it.

It's not always going to be a quick one-year fix or two-year fix. It's like it's a constant work in progress. Right. No, exactly. It's, and it's something that I know that I'll, I think it'll always be in the back of my mind forever. It's just about like kind of managing it better as time goes on. Yeah, and like quieting all of those. The noise. Yeah. It's just figuring out really, or well, yeah, it's figuring out maybe like a method that, works for me.

Yep. And also there's not, there's not a lot of people that I've found or I mean that I've met or even really seen like online or social media that openly like talks about it. Right. It is the same struggle between whether you're a guy or a girl or however you identify, But a lot of guys just either don't struggle with it or do and don't talk about it or they refuse to talk about it or they're afraid to talk about it, which I understand. But it should be brought to awareness because the more people that talk about it, I think the more people could come together and fix it. or at least even if it doesn't get fixed right away to feel like you're not so alone.

Exactly. So just to be able to like relate to someone. Yeah, it's that sense of like community and to feel like you're being heard and understood. For sure. And that's why I thought too would be this would be such an important episode because it's something that you don't see often and that isn't talked about all the time. And even though it's there and it happens, like you said a lot of people aren't comfortable enough to speak up and share their story and be open and vulnerable about it because it is

uncomfortable and it is something that I feel like it almost feels easier to battle on your own than to open up and talk about it because it's like that fear of judgment or people not understanding or whatever else comes with it. So thank you for wanting to come on and share your story. I do appreciate it so much. You really did such a good job. Oh, thank you. You should be proud of yourself.