We're All Insane - Birthing My Stillborn Baby

Episode Date: April 15, 2024

In this deeply moving and courageous video, join Cassie as she shares her journey of coping with the heart-wrenching loss of her stillborn baby. Through raw honesty and vulnerability, she opens up about the emotions, challenges, and moments of hope that have shaped her path towards healing. Cassie's Links: Star Legacy Foundation is dedicated to reducing pregnancy loss and neonatal death and improving care for families who experience such tragedies. They work a lot with funding research to reduce the risk of pregnancy/infant loss. www.starlegacyfoundation.org/resources StillBirthday is an organization whose mission is nurture parents who have gone through pregnancy loss and provide access to resources such as doulas. They have a list of certified bereavement doulas on their website. http://www.stillbirthday.com Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep is an organization connects families with volunteer photographers who do free remembrance photography. They only will provide black and white images and the baby must be at least 22 weeks gestation. They also have an option for free editing of pictures the family takes themselves. www.nowilaymedowntosleep.org Additional resources are listed on my website: Resources | The Emilia Project If you have a unique story you'd like to share on the podcast, please fill out this form: https://forms.gle/ZiHgdoK4PLRAddiB9 or send an email to [e-mail] Business Inquiries please contact: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, it's me Devorah. I just dropped an all new bonus episode inside my new subscription channel, We're All Insane Plus. This week's bonus episode is called My Brain was slipping into my spine. Listen now by subscribing to We're All Insane Plus inside your Spotify or Apple Podcasts app or go to we're all insane.com. Hi everyone. My name is Cassie. I am Mama to Three Kittos, Aiden, Deion, and Amelia. Aden is five, Dion is three, and Amelia was stillborn. So I'm going to be sharing their story today. I do want to caveat that every child loss situation is different. Everyone reacts differently.

So the best thing to do is to echo the wording that the person that you're talking to is using. So I have a tendency to be a little bit more raw and straightforward with facts, but some people like to kind of be more gentle with the way they're talking about it. So I just want to caveat that that's the way that I'm going to talk about it, but some people might have preferences about how they want their child discussed. Yes. All right. So I'm going to start just at the beginning of our journey for having kids,

just to kind of give some background. So me and my wife decided to get pregnant. I think we were about 24 or 25 when we started trying. Because of the fact that we're a female-female relationship, we were using a fertility clinic to get pregnant. So we went through two co-ivf cycles. I'll briefly explain what it is. So, yeah, there's some medical stuff in here.

Yeah, I'm so curious about it too. Yeah. So co-iv-f, what we are trying to do is for me to carry her children. Okay. So they harvested her eggs, insominated them in the lab, created embryos, and then put them into me. That is incredible. Isn't that crazy?

Oh, my gosh. So much science. Wow. So we did two co-ivf cycles, actually, a purest, here. Neither of those worked. So we took kind of took a break. We were like, okay, let's just take a financial and emotional break from this. Yes. And then we ended up moving back home. And we started doing IUI, which is a much less scientific version, but often kind of the first step when you're going to fertility clinic. So that is when they just inseminate, they put a tube

into your cervix and they put the sperm in. Okay. And so it's just a more direct way. Got it. So we did four rounds of that. that and the fourth one was successful. So that is my first pregnancy. I got pregnant with Aden, my oldest. Very uneventful pregnancy. He was born at 38 weeks. Labor was perfect. I got an epidural, took a nap, woke up, pushed seven minutes later he was there. Awesome. So that was wonderful. I did have some emotional issues afterwards, postpartum depression, and some, like kind of scary. thoughts that I think you've had someone on who talked about before. I was like hiding the knives

and the scissors and just felt like I was, I don't know, going to stab somebody randomly. So I ended up going to counseling, kind of just taking a step back and trying to focus on me, because when you're a first time, mom, shit's crazy. To overwhelm. Yes. And I was not prepared at all, though I don't know if anyone necessarily can be. So kind of took a step back, did some self-form. care ask for help, which is an important thing to do that I think a lot of moms have trouble with. And that was my experience with my first pregnancy. So everything went decently well. I recovered decently well. So when Aiden was about one, we decided to get pregnant again. And was this still

with your partner's eggs? So Aden is biologically my child because I did IUI. So I carried all of them. Okay. So we were trying for my wife's eggs with me carrying. It didn't work the first few times. We switched to IUI, which is my biological child. And then the second time that we were trying to get pregnant, we decided to do co-ivf again. Okay. So we went through the process, all the shots, egg retrieval.

And we had so many embryos. We had, I think, 11 or something like that. and they were all really, really good grade. So we were very excited because that had not been the case the first time around. And we decided to try to put two embryos in when we were doing the transfer. So they were going to put two embryos into my body and hope that they stuck. The reason why we decided to do two was the very first time we had done co-ivf. We had tried two and neither of them stuck.

So we were kind of in the mindset of let's just try all of the stuff. Right. right and hope something works. And they do have limits on how many they'll let you do at one time. So kind of the max that they'll let you try to put in on one time is too because if they do more, that's how you end up with Octo Mom kind of thing, which is just dangerous for everybody all around. So we did two embryos. And before they did the transfer, our doctor came in and said, hey, these are really, really good grade. I think you guys have a good chance just, like, on a normal level, do you want to just do one?

And we said, no, let's do two, two. Like, you know, if we get more than one kid, we get more than one kid, right? Bonus. And she was like, okay, because I think we might end up with twins if we do two. And we were like, bring it. Let's go. You know, we got this. So they did the transfer with two embryos.

and the good thing about using a fertility clinic, if you have the chance to do one or if you need to use one, is you get so much information. So within the next five days, I knew that I was pregnant. And they were tracking my numbers. And my numbers were insane. Like they were tripling.

They were like quadruple what they were during my first pregnancy. We met with the doctor and they were like, so I think there might be more than one baby. and we so we had a little bit of a time to a little bit of time to adjust to the concept of having more than one kid before the actual ultrasound to confirm. So they did the ultrasound, found two heartbeats, everything was perfect. They were fraternal twins, so they each had their own thing, which is the safest form of pregnancy for as far as twins are concerned. So we had never been one to really want twins, but we kind of were like, well, two for one, you know? I mean, we'll go through one pregnancy, pay for one transfer and get two kids.

Awesome. Because we were trying to build our family at this point. And so we continued on with the pregnancy. I got extra monitoring because it was twins. Everything was going perfectly. So we found out at 20 weeks that it was. one boy, one girl, and I was so excited, because I had also always thought I would be a good girl mom. And I was just pumped.

I felt like it was kind of the best situation, one pregnancy, one boy, one girl, and yet, you know. And so we were very excited. We very early on chose the girl's name to be Amelia. And we had just always loved that name. It just felt like it matched. I don't know exactly. It felt right. I feel like sometimes when you're having a kid, you just know what their name is going to be.

And for Amelia, that was just it. And then we came up with Dion's name. I think we were like five months pregnant by the time we came up with his name. But we went through the pregnancy. I was getting extra monitoring and going to maternal fetal medicine because I had a twin pregnancy. And they actually didn't tell me I had to, but I was like, yes, please. Let's, you know, extra monitoring seems like a good thing. And I have always been very statistic oriented whenever I've been pregnant. So I've always kept track of, you know, at 10 weeks

pregnant, there's this chance of this percent chance of miscarriage. If we get to 23 weeks, there's a 20 percent chance that the babies will survive if they're born early, you know, kind of that kind of stuff. So I had been keeping track of all of that. And then we had gotten to kind of the safe zone of around-ish 30 weeks and then COVID hit. And that was a whole freak out session for all of the pregnant people I knew at that time because everything, I mean, the whole world was freaking out, obviously. But there was so much uncertainty of they were starting to cancel appointments of you couldn't have your partner come in with you. What happens If you get COVID, do the babies get COVID?

Like even just the fear of getting sick? Mm-hmm. Right. Right. And if you give, if you get COVID, will you go into labor early? If you have COVID, when you have the babies, will they get COVID? Will you be able to see them? If they have to go to the NICU, can you visit them?

There was a whole, a whole wealth of concern in the pregnant people that I knew at the time. And I had, I worked at a hospital at the time. also. And while we weren't actively seeing COVID patients, because I worked on the rehab unit, we were seeing people that were in the process of recovering from COVID. So it was like they were telling us they didn't have COVID, but at that time we were like, is it on the floor? Is it, you know, no one really knew how anything was spreading because this was in March of 2020. So at the very beginning of everything. We were still wiping down groceries. Yes. I will never forget that. That's crazy.

I know. Yeah, I would like come home and strip everything and like go straight to the shower and I'll know if the shoes didn't come in the house, all of that stuff. And so we were going through all of that. But then also I was still going to my doctor's appointments because at that point they were still asking or they were starting to ask, you know, if you have any cough, if you have this, then you can't come to your doctor's appointment. And every pregnant person I knew at the time was just.

line. If we had a cough, I don't have a cough right now because I'm trying to, you know, go to my doctor's appointment, make sure everything's okay. So I was continuing to go to my doctor's appointments, but didn't, just couldn't have a support person there with me. So around 32 weeks pregnant, so a couple weeks into the whole pandemic freak out, I did get diagnosed with gestational hypertension. So that was just, I had kind of high blood pressure. It was really the mildest version of it that I could qualify for, but it did qualify me for extra monitoring above what I was normally getting. So normally I was going to my regular doctor and then I was also going to maternal fetal

medicine, I think every two weeks at this point. And maternal fetal medicine is like the high risk, like the people who have been doing this for like years and years and write papers and, you know, all the fancy stuff. So I qualified for extra monitoring because my blood pressure was a little bit high. So at this point, I was going in twice a week for testing, including stress tests and ultrasounds and all of this medical stuff. So at 34 weeks, I had a stress test on a Wednesday. So a stress test is something they do if they're concerned about the babies or if you're just at higher risk in getting extra monitoring. So what they do is they strap fetal monitors to your belly, and they find their heart rate.

And basically within, I don't know the details, but within a certain amount of time, their heart rate is supposed to go up a certain number of times. And it kind of just shows the doctors that they're still active. They're doing well, that there's not a concern. Because if there is a concern with the baby, normally the heart rate doesn't spike the way it's supposed to. So it's kind of just a way to double check that everything's going okay. So at that ultrasound or at that stress test, Amelia actually did everything she was supposed to do right away, which she always did. She was always a very active baby.

She was the one who kicked first. She was the one who I could always get if I was doing a kick count to kick first, and then she would wake up Dion on the other side and then get him to kind of do what he was supposed to do. So she showed off. Dion actually wouldn't wake up. So they were pretty concerned about him for a little while. they had to do kind of extra steps. They actually have like a vibrating wand that they put on your belly to be like, wake up.

And so he eventually woke up, met his heart acceleration requirement, and they were like, okay, you're fine. So I went home, lived my life, kept going to work, taking care of my other kid. On the next Tuesday, I woke up and I felt kind of nauseous, which was abnormal for me at this point. I felt nauseous at the very beginning of the pregnancy, but I actually didn't carry the nausea over through the second and third trimester. So it was a little bit weird that I felt nauseous, but it wasn't horrible. And I was like, there's free hand sanitizer at work today because it was the beginning of COVID. And I remember the date because they told us to bring in containers because they were, essentially it was rubbing alcohol at that point.

But they were like, well, give you free hand sanitizer if you, you know, come by this stand at the hospital. So I brought in my hand sanitizer container, got the free hand sanitizer, and then about two hours later, I felt normal again. So I kept living my life. At the next day, I had my ultrasound appointment. So I went to my ultrasound appointment. It actually was on the same campus that I was working on because I worked a big hospital. So I just walked across campus. Went to the ultrasound appointment.

talked to the doctor, did all the, I had like my list of questions of things I was worried about. What if the twins come early? I'm sure I ask a whole bunch of questions about COVID. What kind of drapes do you have if they have to have a C-section and all this kind of stuff? So I went through all of my questions and I actually have all of this on video too because I was videoing my appointments at that time because my wife couldn't come. So we went to go do the ultrasound. They checked on Dion. Dion was Baby A.

So they name if you have multiples, it's Baby A, Baby B, and then if there's more CD. And it's in order of how old they're going to be, essentially. So it's based on how they're positioned in your stomach of who's going to come out first, basically. So they checked on Dion who is baby A, doing great. no concerns, everything's fine. And then I only know this because I had it on video, but she went over to check on Amelia Baby B, and she was there for forever. And she was chatting. You know, she was doing the medical provider thing. I'm like, let's talk, da-da-da. But going back on the video, she was looking for her heartbeat for like 45 seconds, which is long. Normally it's kind of pretty

immediate. And then she paused and she said, I'm a little bit concerned. And I was like, okay, what are we like a little bit concerned about? And she said, I don't know if we have a heartbeat for Baby B. And I didn't fully hear her at the time. I mean, I heard her, but I was like, eh, I mean, okay. So Amelia's always been kind of dramatic and has been giving ultrasound text issues from the very beginning. So I kind of was just like, eh, okay. She's probably like moved in a different position or flipped or something.

I don't know. But she was a PA who I was working with at the time. She couldn't technically, I think, confirm anything. So she said, I'm going to go get my supervising doctor to come take a look. And I was like, okay. And so I texted Kathy at that time and was like, hey, maybe just, you know, kind of get your stuff. So start heading this way. Because in my mind, probably she wasn't right about there not being a heartbeat, but there's probably something wrong going on.

So there might be a need for me to go into surgery or, you know, something's happening. even if it's not necessarily what they're saying it is. So the doctor came in and confirmed they couldn't find a heartbeat for her. And I in my mind, I'm like, okay, so we're going to be rushing into emergency surgery. Like, where's the, you know, the operating room to get you the C-section to some, you know, in my mind, if there's something wrong with the baby, let's get the babies out. Right. And how many weeks were you? 35.

Okay. So I was at a point where there was a pretty high chance of survival if they were out. Okay. You know, once you get to like 32-ish weeks or so, the chance of them surviving outside the womb goes way up. Okay. So in my mind, I was like, okay, so they're coming out. And everyone was just so nonchalant and was like, take your time and just left me in the room to hang out. And I was like, why the fuck are we not doing something?

Yeah. So at that point, I called Kathy and was like and told her that they didn't think that Amelia had a heartbeat. And she, she heard me in the way that she knew that she needed to come to me. But she didn't really want to talk about it until it, until she was there. Yeah. And also it's not something that it's like, oh, we have time to just sit here and chat about it. Right. Yeah.

Right. She was like, let's go. Let's do this. Right. And so they wanted me. me to go across the street to maternal fetal medicine to do a higher level ultrasound because the one that they did in the office was, it was like the little like cheaper roll-in thing and not the big whole room, right? So they wanted me to go over to maternal fetal medicine to confirm again.

And so I stayed on the phone with Kathy while she drove up and we lived about 30 minutes away at the time. And we, it was, it was this, the silliest things because I could not figure out how to tell her where I was. And she could not understand me trying to tell her where I was. And so we agreed to just meet on a part of campus that we were both familiar with. So I spent those 30 minutes walking, it took me 30 minutes walking all the way across campus with my 30, 35 week twin pregnant self to get to the other side. And while I was walking, I actually passed by my supervisor's office because I had been at work that day. And in my mind, I was like, should I go tell her that I'm probably not going to be at work tomorrow? And then I caught myself and was like, okay, that's not, we're not worrying about that right now.

We're worrying about the babies and what the hell is going on. So I met Kathy across campus where we were familiar with. She drove me over to a maternal fetal medicine. It was the time of day where I think they were only really bringing in people with emergent issues because the waiting room was empty. I think it was 4.30 and they closed at 5 or something like that. So we were the only ones there that I could see. So the same tech who always did our ultrasounds brought us back.

And they checked on Dion first, which just felt so torturous because I was like, he's fine. You know, that's not our concern or priority right now. But I think they also probably didn't want to rush checking on Amelia in their minds, because I'm sure it's not pleasant to do an ultrasound of a baby who's dead, I would think. So they checked on Dionne, Dionne was fine. And then they brought the ultrasound machine over to Amelia. And the way they do it with the fancy ultrasounds is they find the heart and they click on the screen. And then it does the bo-boom, bab-boom, bab-boom.

So when they clicked on her heart rate, it was the loudest static I've ever heard. And you could see it not moving on the screen. And when they say your heart drops, I literally felt my heart just goes straight to my chest. And straight to my stomach. And it just, I felt like I was going to throw up. I felt like I was going to faint. But I was completely silent and still through all this. It was just I could feel it happening internally.

And the doctor came in. and confirmed what we had already seen multiple times that she didn't have a heartbeat anymore. And so I started asking and kind of advocating and saying, okay, so what are we doing? Like, what's the next steps? What are we doing? Because again, still in my mind, I'm like, something's wrong. Let's get them out. But you were so far along at this time.

Exactly. I was like they could have been born by now anyway. So many twin pregnancies don't go past 30. 34, 33 weeks. And how much earlier did you have an ultrasound appointment from that one when they couldn't find her heartbeat? So I had actually had an ultrasound appointment the morning of the previous stress test. So they had checked on her the Wednesday before, a week ago.

A week before. And she was fine. Right. Okay, wow. Right. So all of this was. So something happened. Yes.

Right. Yes. Because she had, with twins also. Also, we had so many appointments. I had, I think we had like a specific, we had an EKG for them, which I didn't even know was a thing, but with so many checkups. Right. And normally with twins, there's certain things that you're looking for that go wrong.

And a lot of them don't happen with fraternal twins, which is why I felt safer because we were in the safest form of pregnancy. But they had been checking all of the things. They'd done a genetic test. They'd done everything. So it threw me off majorly that she had died because normally there's some kind of lead-up. There's something wrong. Right.

It's not just so sudden and radio. Exactly. Exactly. And at this point, they couldn't really tell you why, correct? They were just like, we don't know. Exactly. So that was one of the things that I argued with them about because the doctor who I ended up talking to who came in and confirmed officially that she didn't have a heartbeat was very,

medically minded and I was all emotion at this point so he was saying well since amelia's died Dion has his own or baby A has his own stuff it shouldn't impact him that she's died so he's fine the way he is we prefer to keep him in until 37 weeks had been their initial plan and I'm 35 weeks and he started saying, well, since it's just him now and not Amelia also, we might even be able to push you to 39 weeks. And I'm over here, freaking the fuck out. I'm like, I do not, first of all, there was like a 0.01% chance of something happening to Amelia at this point.

If you have a healthy pregnancy this long, there's such a low chance of something happening that far along. And he was trying to say, oh, well, there's. There's a higher, there's only a one to three percent chance of something happening to Dion if we leave him inside. And I was like, that's a less chance. Yeah. Then what just happened and Amelia died and you can't tell me why. I was going to say, if you still don't have an answer and it happens so suddenly and random, I'd be like, let's get him out too. Exactly. Because I know he's okay right now. Exactly. If he has Nicky time, he has Nicky time. I don't care. I want him alive. Exactly. And in my mind also, I had entrusted their safety to the doctor. doctors. And one out of two of my children died under their care. So like, Loki, I don't trust you right now. You have to go off your motherly instincts at this point. I was mama bearing so hard. But I also had just heard this news 15 minutes before. So I, in my mind, had all of these logical arguments, but I'm sure was not speaking them with much clarity. So eventually I just gave up arguing

with him and was like, okay, we'll figure it out later because he wasn't giving me anything. And so the maternal fetal medicine closed down and we went and we sat in the car. And we just sat in the car in the dark parking lot by ourselves for two and a half hours. We had security like circling us because everything had shut down. And I'm sure they were like, why is this random car just parked here in this empty parking lot? But we couldn't think of what to do. We're like, what do you do? Like, when you hear one of your kids just died, what are you supposed to do?

I don't know. Are you allowed to make that decision of like, I want to have this baby early? So that, mm-mm. So you have to go off what the doctor says. I have, see, that, and that is a thread that runs through this entire thing is feeling so incredibly helpless and powerless. Because I have doctors who I don't trust telling me what I can do with my body and what I can do to protect. my children. And also I feel like if technically you're at this specific week that is safe to give birth, like why shouldn't you be able, especially in the circumstances that you had. It's not like you're just like,

I get them out. I'm bored. Right. You know, something major just happened. Exactly. I think that they would at least give you the choice. Yeah. So from my understanding of what I was told later on when I was in the hospital by a very blunt doctor who would not blunt in a good way, told me that basically they, if they deliver or induce a pregnancy before, I think it's 39 weeks, they have to write a medical exemption. If they do not write a medical exemption, they get dinged on their scores. So it messes with the hospital's records, essentially. They just didn't feel like going through and doing.

I know that they do have to have a medical reason. But in my mind, I was like, this feels like a medical reason. I 100% think that is more than enough. Right. So. And honestly, unfortunately, I think it's in situations like that, you almost have to get lucky and just have a really nice doctor. So I think that if it was a doctor that was a little bit more in touch with their emotions

and didn't mind of putting in the extra effort to make something happen, I think that they would. Right. Yes. You know. It, yes. And is something that comes into the story later. So we sat in the parking lot for forever and then drove home and then sat in that parking lot for forever.

And the next 24 hours, I barely slept. I spent a lot of time just walking laps in our apartment complex because what do you do? I had no clue what to do. I was just in shock. And so I had a fetal stress test that had already been scheduled the, next day. So they said, come on in, we'll fetal stress test on Dion. And when I walked into the room, they only put one of the fetal monitors on me, which makes perfect sense because they're only looking at Dion's heartbeat. But it broke me again because it just was a reminder that there was

no reason for them to check on Amelia because she was already dead. I'm also so surprised that they didn't offer any type of, not therapy, but just like anything to make sure that you were emotionally okay. No, and that's a theme that I've heard from most people who have lost babies. It's, it's, you get lucky or unlucky with the doctor who tells you about it. I was going to say, yeah, it's just tell you like as if it's very black and white, very simple. It is. Yeah, they didn't make it. Okay, let's keep going. Like, nothing happened. Yeah. And I know it's something that they deal with. It's more regular. to them, you know, doctor, but, but still, and I, I know of several stories of people who have

been sent home with their child, the dead inside of them, who have been considering suicide, who have been, you know, on the phone panic calling people, because they really don't give you any guidance. I was going to say, and I think as much, because I can understand if, if you're a doctor, you're in the medical field, I can understand the group of people that would be like, oh, well, this is what they deal with on a daily basis. They have to be more cold. And I get that to a certain degree.

But like you just mentioned, not giving someone that guidance and sending them home puts their life at risk. It does. You don't know what they're going to do. You don't know what they're thinking. So it's almost like you should at least, I think, monitor the person or call in check. Even like the smallest littlest things just to make it seem like you care or that somebody cares or that the support is there if it's needed, which it very much is in a situation like that. So that's, yeah, that's just very surprising to me. Yeah.

For those reasons as well. Yes, I agree. I agree. So I went in the next day and they, I luckily had a somewhat sympathetic doctor that next day, who was actually the only female doctor in the practice. So she kind of, I felt like understood a little bit more where I was coming from emotionally. And she told me that they couldn't deliver without a medical reason, but that she would try to find one. and I said, thank you so much.

And so they ran labs on me to see if any of my blood levels were off. They did the fetal or the stress test. Everything was fine on that. So again, we went home and waited. On the next day, which was Friday, I was trying to do kick counts with Dion because at this point I'm doing them constantly. He's not allowed to sleep. I'm where he needs to be moving constantly or I'm freaking out.

And I couldn't get him to wake up. And it had been about, I think maybe an hour since. I'd felt him kick and I was starting to freak out and I decided that this was a valid reason for me to just go to the ER. What are they going to tell me? You go into the ER and you say, hey, I don't know if my baby's kicking or not. This is the circumstances. So as we're packing up to just go to the ER to see, the maternal phenel medicine doctor calls

and she says, okay, so I think I've found some lab value. They're slightly off. One's a little high, one's a little low. It's in the realm of preeclampsia, but not actually there. But concerning enough, under the circumstances, that she has gotten the hospital to agree to admit me for monitoring. So while we're packing up to go to the ER, we just switch to packing up to going to the hospital. So we drive to the hospital. I get there at about five or so. And they let Kathy stay with me for about two hours while they run labs again. The reason why they let her stay, because again, this is, I didn't say the dates, this is the end of April. Hey, I'm Jeremy Schwartz from American Criminal.

On this season, robbery gone wrong or cold-blooded murder. Either way, Boston will never be the same. Listen to American Criminal, the murder of Carol Stewart, wherever you get your podcasts. Or to get early ad free access, subscribe in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or at Americancriminal.com. 2020. So we're still very much so in the thick of it, is that they were running laps to see if they needed to do anything emergently. Everything came back normal, and so she had to go. So I'm there in the hospital room by myself with one dead baby inside of me, one alive baby, but I feel a little bit better because at least I'm next to medical professionals. So they're coming in and checking

on me and they were wonderful about answering all of my concerns and advocating for me. Really, the nurses are the heroes in this entire story because the doctors come in and out and the nurses are the ones who have to deal with the patients for 12 hours a day. So they were running cereal labs on me. They were doing tests. Everything was fine on Saturday evening, so 24 hours after that. the labs that they had been running came back normal. And so I start freaking out because while I'm not a doctor, I do work in a hospital setting.

And so I'm aware if you're admitted for abnormal labs and then the labs change over to normal, they're discharging you. There's no reason for you to be here. And so I had an absolute freak out crying, screaming. I don't even know what I was doing at 2 a.m. with this poor nurse named Allison and was just like, I can. cannot leave. I'm not leaving. I will not be leaving this room. Like, you can pull security in and try to drag me out. I'm sitting my butt right here in this bed and I'm not going anywhere because

you guys cannot tell me why my baby died. And she was so empathetic and she talked to the doctors for me and she was wonderful. And so they ended up agreeing to let me stay until Monday because maternal fetal medicine works Monday through Friday. And they were the ones who, would ask to admit me. So their logic was, let's wait until Monday so that you can talk to maternal fetal medicine. During the time period that I was in the hospital room, I was pretty much on FaceTime with Kathy the entire time because I didn't want to be by myself and she didn't want to be by herself. I also, I feel kind of bad retrospectively, but I decided that I needed, I needed to be doing something for Amelia. And so I reached into my previous pastimes, and

and remember that I love to crochet. So I decided I was going to make her a pastel rainbow-colored baby blanket, but I needed specific colors. And so I had Kathy driving all over the state of North Carolina to find special colors at different Joanne's fabrics because I needed certain ones to make like the pattern that I was looking for. And bless her, she did it in her also moment of grief, but it was something to do.

So she got a bag together and she came to the hospital. but they wouldn't let her come up. So my nurse had to go down and get the stuff. But at least I had, I had something to do with my hands. There was some highs and lows of the weekend there where I had doctors come in who were empathetic. I had doctors who come in who came in who were not empathetic at all. On Sunday, there was a doctor named Kathleen. I remember specific people's names, but often either in a really good way or a really bad way. And she's the one who told me that it would mess up the hospital stats if they delivered. And she also basically said, I don't know why they admitted you. I had known that only the labs that they had used were the only reason

why they admitted you, then I wouldn't have let them do it. And I, in the moment, I'm sure, I don't think I said anything to her. But my mind was like, fuck. you what the fuck is wrong with you like I don't know I don't know she was not very empathetic and but it was made up for by the very kind nurses who intercepted on my behalf so I'm by myself through the weekend Monday morning I am preparing to talk to maternal fetal medicine so as I am somewhat in the well I am in the metal field, but not in the, like, doctor-nirce side of it. But I'm familiar with how to read, like, research articles and that kind of stuff. So that's how I'm spending, when I'm not crocheting,

I'm spending my Sunday looking up articles, trying to find statistics so that I can argue with the doctor with numbers when they come in Monday, because I'm like, that's all they care about. So I am going to find numbers. So I have notes written on front, back of paper, like side. I've got the iPad that they gave me up like looking up pub med and all this kind of stuff. I'm trying to prepare. And the maternal field medicine doctor comes in on Monday morning. I'm prepared with my notes. And he says, okay. So I've been doing some research. I was like, me too. What did you find? And essentially, there's no specific research articles about the situation that I was in. So there's some that were parts of the situation that I was in, but not combined. So it was the twin pregnancy

with one of them surviving was the thing that was throwing everything off. And he said, so either we can keep you pregnant until 38 weeks or we can deliver today. And I was like, bless that one. Like, please take them out. I was terrified, but also I was like, this is what we need to do. But in, I had such mixed emotions because I was so relieved, but I also was like, I'm not ready to meet Amelia right now. Like, how do you prepare to meet your dead child? I don't know if anyone ever is. But I actually texted, I was texting someone who I know who had a child who lived for two hours and then passed away. And I was like, I am not ready. And she, texted back, you will never be ready. You just need to do what is best for you and your babies.

So they moved me over to the labor and delivery side because I had been in some kind of monitoring area first. And they let Kathy come. And so we were finally together, which was such a relief. And so they started me on Potosin because they gave me an option of C-section. versus trying for vaginal. And I decided to just try for vaginal because it's safer overall. And also I had done vaginal with my first. And the doctor tried to prepare me for birthing a stillborn. It's different than birthing a live baby because when you birth a live baby, the baby like

turns and twists kind of, I don't know, labor and delivery people will understand what I'm talking about but they twist intentionally as they're coming out and it kind of guides them um whereas stillborns do not help you at all because they're dead um so he tried to prepare me and was like it's possible she might get stuck and then it's not going to be easy and that I decided to just go ahead and try it and I was like if we end up in a C-section we end up in a C-section if she does get stuck then there's not a concern of her dying which is normally the concern if a baby gets stuck. And did they tell you which baby was supposed to come out first? Mm-hmm. So Dion was coming out first. So baby A, the living one, was coming out first.

Got it. And then baby B is Amelia who died and she was coming out second because of the way that they were positioned. So they put me on potosin, which is like a thing to basically induce labor. And it's working slowly but surely. My first child, I had labored with my water broken. for pretty much the entire time, and it was no fun, and I did not like it. My water had not broken with this one because they were using potocin, and it didn't happen naturally. So I decided, as a distraction, to try to do a science experiment, which was dumb, but in the moment, I was like, eh. So I had been laboring with my water not broken, and I was like, let me see what it feels like if we break the water, and then I keep laboring.

and that was a bad, bad idea. If laboring with your water broken is so much worse. And so immediately I was like, get me the epidural like now. And so they have to push fluid so they couldn't do the epidural for about 30 minutes. And then they did the epidural. I'm sitting on the side of the bed. The anesthesiologist walks out and I start feeling like something is trying to come out of a hole that shouldn't be coming out of. And I'm like, nurse, what's happening?

And so before the epidural even kicks in, Dion's trying to come out. And she makes a phone call. There's 20 people all of a sudden in the room because it was, while they had agreed to induce me, they still needed like the NICU team. And there was a bunch of residents and stuff that were there too because technically I was in premature labor. It was just induced on purpose. So everybody was in there at once. I gave birth to Dion. And that, They didn't even have to take him away from me at all. They checked him out. They put him on my chest. Everything was fine with him, which is crazy. He was the healthiest baby at 35 weeks. They were expecting him to have to go to the NICU or have some kind of problems, but he had absolutely none.

And so everything's kind of more of a normal noise level when he's born. And then they're ready to get Amelia out. And I push. Amelia comes out in the room. is dead silent. You could hear a pin drop. It, I'm sure, was not a pretty sight. I didn't see her at first until she was wrapped up. So basically, she was born. They wrapped her up like a swaddle, and then they put her in my arms. And I look at her, and I just remember saying, hey baby girl and she looked like a baby but not she looked like a dead baby to be honest with you she'd

been inside of me for five days or so and what i didn't know but know later if you have a baby die and they stay inside of you the ambiotic fluid while protective for children who is alive is it causes deterioration and children who are dead and so she was in pretty rough shape which i didn't see at first. I held her and Dion for a while. I decided to try to breastfeed Dion. And so I handed Amelia over to Kathy to hold. While they're doing, while Kathy's holding Amelia, they're getting the cuddle caught ready. So let me explain cuddle caught because that's something that I had no idea about until I needed to know. So a cuddle caught is a cooling blanket that they put on a bassinet. The concept is you put a child who has died or a baby who has died onto the cooling blanket.

it and it helps keep them cool kind of like being in the morgue would. So it helps prevent deterioration and allows for the baby to stay with the family for longer. Because if you don't have that, oftentimes the child or the baby has to go to the morgue pretty quickly. I've heard of stories of people only having about two hours or so with their child before they had to go to the morgue. If you have the cuddle caught, they can stay with you indefinitely. So we stayed in the hospital for two days and Amelia was with us the whole time because she was on the cuddle cot. So anyway, they're getting the cuddle cot ready. And then when, oh, I forgot to say, when I had been in the hospital that weekend, I am a very planning oriented person.

And so I had asked to talk to a chaplain. I'd asked to talk to a caseworker and was trying to figure out, okay, what can we do with her? What are our options? I'm sure there are them, but I just didn't know what they were. So they had come in and said, you know, you can help dress her, you can help give her a bath, you can help, like she can get baptized, you can do foot molds. They, I thankfully gave birth in a hospital who had a lot of resources. And so they had kind of programs in place already for this situation, whereas a lot of smaller rural hospitals don't have this, but I was in a bigger city. and so one of the things that we had decided we wanted to do was help get her dressed.

So we had these personalized onesies that one of my friends made like overnight after they found out that she had died and had delivered. So we had these onesies to put her in. And Kathy started trying to help get her dressed and then pretty quickly recognized in herself and her body that it was too much for her. And so she stepped back. And I decided that I was going to be the strong one in this moment, which was a mistake. But I was like, if she can't do it, I'll do it.

Let me suck it up and do it for Amelia. And dressing a dead baby is not fun or easy. And there was a lot of handling her body involved, which was, like I said, in poor shape. She had skin peeling off. It was red, black, bruised, everything. And I tried and then got very overwhelmed and then took a step back and the nurses had to finish because I was like, I can't do it. And I asked them about if we were going to do a bath with her. And they were like, oh, sweetie, I think she's a little too delicate for that.

One thing I learned later, because of my specific circumstance of having stayed pregnant for a while, oftentimes if you just, have one baby and they have passed, they do sometimes give you the option of delivering more immediately. And in those circumstances, that's when, if you ever, I doubt you have. But for people who have seen pictures of like little babies that look like they're sleeping, but really they've passed, those are typically those circumstances. Baby dies and then they deliver pretty immediately or they die during the delivery. For my specific situation, a lot of the things that they stated were options wasn't possible because of the condition of her body.

So I freaked myself out by trying to interact with her so much. And it kind of led to me not wanting to interact with her for the next two days. So when we got over to mother baby and she was on the cuddle cot, I said, can we just put her in the corner? because I cannot look at her. I can't touch her. I can't do anything with her. And it made me for the longest time feel like such a bad mom

because I'm looking back and saying my baby was there with me, but I didn't want to even acknowledge her presence. And I think I've forgiven myself for that at this point, but it took me a while because there's so many regrets you have when you have a baby die, because you want to have a lifetime of memories with them, especially as far along as I was, I had plans in my mind, you know? And there's no way I could have fit all of those memories that I wanted to do into such a short period of time, especially when you're going through so much trauma

in the middle of it. I think, too, that if you're looking at it from a motherly perspective, you're going to have that guilt and feel like how could I have done this? But if you look at it, like you're a human and you just went through a serious traumatic experience, I feel like your reaction is so normal. Yeah. Like to not want to face her and to not want to be so hands-on for those couple days out of whether it was fear or hurt or any of these things. that is so normal.

And I almost feel like, and I'm glad that you've forgiven yourself because while you could be hard on yourself and you can think, well, I should have been stronger, I should have done this. You are only human.

Right. And before even having her, you still never receive those support that you should have had. So it's like you haven't even really grieved it yet. No. You know what I mean? So it's like,

however you react is totally up in the air at this point. And you can't really, we don't have much control of how our brain takes over and decides to react things, react to things, especially that early on and that suddenly. Right. Like this all happened within like, it was back to back. You know what I mean?

So you didn't really have that time to be like, okay, when she comes out, here's how I'm going to handle it. And even if you did plan that out, nine times out of ten, we can't plan how we're going to feel in that actual moment. Right. Right. Because there was also so much I wasn't expecting that I wasn't prepared for. Right.

I was prepared for like a cute little sleeping looking baby. Right. But that's not what I got. And that's hard to look at. Yeah. And heartbreaking. It is. Yeah.

Yeah. I still in therapy because I've been in therapy for four years because everybody should. I, that's one of the things I'm still working at. We're working on is being able to look at pictures of her because I feel like it's just such a disconnect of how I picture her. versus how she actually looks. And I've discussed with several other moms of stillborn babies who have had to stay pregnant for a while because I know someone who was pregnant with twins

and had a pretty similar situation. And it's so helpful to have a connection with someone who knows what you've gone through. Absolutely. Because it's so, it's impossible to explain fully to someone who hasn't gone through it. But if like with my friend who has gone through it, we can just be like, that was rough. And she'll be like, yep, it was.

Right, right. So we did have that time with her, though I didn't do a whole lot with her. I had other people do things with her. So we did have her and Dion baptized. I do have foot molds of her. I have footprints and handprints that they could get. There was some that they couldn't because of the way that she was. but, which I'm so grateful for in retrospect.

We had the time with her and Dion, we left the hospital two days later. So the normal kind of after a vaginal birth, you leave two days later. So they, okay, hold on, let me go back. So as we're preparing to leave, we are packing up our stuff. we write little notes. I had crocheted a little butterfly because we represent her with butterflies. So I had put that under her little hand, and we're trying to kind of create a positive memory of leaving.

So we do all that. We're packing up our stuff, and then we find a white bag that's in our room that is like a white plastic bag. And you know how sometimes, well, when you have a baby, they just throw a bunch of supplies in your room. They're just like, here's the pads, here's the whatever, here's all the stuff. So we found a bag that was like that. But when we look at it, because we're like, what is this? It said infant body bag on it. And at that moment, I freak out. I'm like, oh no, no, no, no, no, no. Because it just made it so much more real that like when I leave my child, she's going to the morgue and then go

into a funeral home. And so I walk out into the hallway and find a nurse. And I'm like, this cannot be in there. And I'm sure it had nothing to do with her. her, but I freaked the fuck out. And they talked to the manager and she came and apologized. But it, like, it threw my headspace off because I was trying so hard after the several days of not being able to interact with her. I was trying to, like, have an emotional connection with her and leave her feeling like she was in a calm and safe space. And that threw me off. And so we took another couple minutes and tried to prepare again and set our goodbyes and then left and pulled took the on out to the car got everyone set up in the car we try to start the car the car doesn't start because the

battery's dead and so it that led to a three-hour journey of getting the car towed to an auto zone to get the battery replaced and it was just a hot mess but looking back anything. that goes wrong, especially even every year something goes wrong at the end of April and beginning of May. And it just feels right somehow. It just feels right that things don't always go right. So it and the moment was like a fucking horse. Like this horrible, annoying thing would happen right now. But looking back, I'm like, that tracks. That tracks. And it actually feels kind of right that the labor didn't go the way it was supposed to. The getting to the car didn't go the way was supposed to it just it would feel weird right it would just feel weird if everything went perfectly

so anyway we finally got home and just crashed because at this point it's midnight we're all exhausted it's just been a shit show of a day so the next several weeks were it was like a weird haze I was still in shock because everything like you said had happened so quickly I wasn't expecting it. We had already had everything prepped for twins. So we had like the two pack and plays laid out. The two car seats were in the car. And so there was some undoing of that stuff that we had to do just to kind of make life work. I basically hid in the bedroom for the next three weeks with Dion. So that was the thing that also made it such a strange situation because I had just gone through a stillbirth and left my child at the hospital.

But then I also had a 35-week-old newborn baby at home that I was caring for. So it was a weird dichotomy of I'm still having to function because I'm breastfeeding, I'm changing diapers, I'm not sleeping, I'm not doing all the things. But I'm also like, what the fuck just happened? So I basically hid in the room. I couldn't interact with anybody. If I left the room to get food and even saw my oldest child, I would run essentially, which is another way I felt like a bad mom at the time because I was like, why can I not be with my 18-month-old? This is so, like, this makes me feel like a shitty mom.

And looking back on it, it's because being with a. a child that's 18 months or two years old takes a lot of emotional energy. And I did not have any of that right now to give. So I didn't interact with anybody for several weeks. And then two weeks, two and a half weeks after we got home, we got a call from the funeral home saying, Amelia's ready. And we were like, wait, what? In my mind, everything was going to take so much longer. Because we'd also ask for an autopsy to try to figure out what was going on. And that was what I was going to ask. Oh, yeah, I kind of skipped that part.

Well, no, you're fine. But the doctors, they still didn't know and still couldn't give you an answer. So one thing I forgot to mention is that when Amelia was born, they noticed something was weird with her cord. So they showed it to Kathy. They didn't show it to me. But they noticed that her cord was really skinny and twisted in one spot. and then there was like a big blood clot on the other side of it.

So when we had asked for an autopsy, and so when we got the autopsy results back, it showed that the cord had a lack of Wharton's Jelly in it. So Wharton's jelly is inside an umbilical cord, and it's basically a cushioning. So it cushions the two blood vessels that are in the cord so that when the baby twists and turns and does all the things, that the cord doesn't compress on the blood vessels. So she had a section of the cord that was missing that Wharton's Jelly or had a small amount of it. And as the pregnancy progresses and as the baby gets older, the Wharton's Jelly decreases over time. So it kind of was a ticking time bomb that we just didn't know about.

And is there any way to know that? So I questioned them about that so much. So there is with current medical knowledge, no specific. test that can test for that when the baby is in utero. There is somebody who is kind of specializing in stillbirth. I think he's in Louisiana who's coming up with a test that he can do, but it's not like a widespread test that a bunch of different clinics can do. It seems so stupid and simple that you would think that they would be able to see it,

but they say that you can't and I'm not a doctor. And it just sucks because then it's like a fear that's kind of always. there of like is it a taking time bomb? Is it not? Right. Yeah. Right. And that was one of my big concerns afterwards and I met with several doctors and did a whole bunch of research because I was like, if I ever get pregnant again, I want something that can quell my fears of the same thing happening. You don't want to spend that entire pregnancy. Exactly. Worry. Yes. And from talking to people who have had pregnancies after loss, oftentimes when they know what's go, when they know what went wrong the first time. If they can either confirm that that's not going wrong this time or get past the week

that something bad happened, that's kind of when they can settle down with the pregnancy. And with me, I'm like, well, that sucks because I don't, there's no way to prove that it's not happening again. And I would have to get past 35 weeks before I feel like I can breathe. Like, that's not. So that is something that I definitely questioned them about a lot. So with that, I met with one of the maternal fetal medicine doctors several months after once we got the autopsy report back, I did a medical records request and printed out all 300 pages of my medical chart and like went through and highlighted numbers and question marks. And I was trying to find something that had gone wrong. Just so I could have something to look for. So it's not such a nonsensical death. Like in my mind, there had to be a

reason that could have been caught because that would make it be able to be caught in the future. if I were to get pregnant again. And I brought this giant binder into her office for what I think she thought was going to be a 20-minute meeting and ended up being three hours because I needed her to answer every single highlighted question I had. She would be like leaving to like go double-check an ultrasound of a patient and then coming back and keeping talking to me. So I felt kind of bad, but she was very understanding and empathetic. And she was the doctor who said that she was going to try to find a reason to admit. So she was the one that I wanted to meet with on it.

It was kind of a funny conversation in retrospect because I was asking if they did kind of continuous monitoring or what they would do in the future to figure out or to just provide some extra security if I were to get pregnant again. And she was like, well, you're not going to like the answer to that question. And I said, why not? And she said, because we were already doing everything that we would have done to, like, we were doing all of the extra monitoring already. And I was like, yeah, no, I don't like that answer because that doesn't give me any kind of security.

And I asked if they did, if they ever admitted people into the hospital for continuous monitoring. And she laughed. And I was like, no, I'm serious. And she said, well, we wouldn't want you to be away from your kids for that long. And it's like, I do not give a fuck if I'm away from my kids for three months. I just want all future children, if applicable, to be alive. Right. So I think they, the doctors have their own perspective of things that is logical.

And I think if I was to get pregnant again, logic would not be the guardian of my pregnancy. I would be at the ER, like, every single night. Like, someone needs to double check that everything's okay because I don't have a way to have security about what went wrong is not going wrong again because it was so sudden and unexpected. I think that's the thing that throws me off with that. So one thing, sorry, I'm going to backtrack, one thing I forgot to mention that is also a resource that might be helpful to people who are going through this is having pictures taken of your baby. So there is a company called Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep, which they solely provide pictures of people's babies in the

hospital who have passed. Now, they were not allowed to come in during this time period because of COVID. So what we did was I had a friend at the time who was a newborn photographer who had taken my oldest newborn pictures and was slotted to take the twins' newborn pictures. And she actually had been trained on taking pictures of stillborn babies. And so we were like, okay, you have to come take pictures because while I didn't want to interact with her and kind of felt weird about it, I also recognize that this is the only time that we'll ever have a chance to have pictures of her. And we had this whole back and forth with administration while we were in the hospital about whether or not she could come because there was like a no visitor policy. Like they were questioning

even if I could have family come to meet Amelia. And the nurses came in, bless them, I love them. They came in and they were like, okay, so your friend who's a photographer can't come. But I told them that your sister's coming. Your sister's coming to meet Amelia, right? And I was like, yes, my sister is coming to meet Amelia. I don't have a sister. But so my sister came in with her like photography equipment underneath the

big jacket and came and took pictures. So we do have that, which I'm very grateful for. But, yeah, that's something that I know a lot of people kind of seek and ask for. Now, I will say, now I lay me down to sleep will only take black and white pictures, which is kind of a source of contention. I don't know exactly where the policy comes from. But if you want colored pictures, you have to find either a photographer or do it yourself. So coming back out to the, sorry, I'm jumping around. You're fine. I think where you left off before that was when they called you and said that she was ready.

Yes. So the funeral home called and said that she was ready. Yes, because I had said that we had asked for an autopsy. In my mind, autopsies took a long time. Right. And so I wasn't expecting for her, we had her cremated. So I wasn't expecting for her ashes to be ready to come home that quickly. So that threw me, threw me off big time.

So I took the night to process it. And the next day I got all dressed up in like my cutest little outfit. And we went to the funeral home and we had picked out a little pink butterfly urn. It's actually very cute. I had bought the urn the day I found out she died because I needed to do something. Yeah. So we brought the urn, had them put her in the urn, and then I couldn't, I couldn't carry her, so I drove us home.

And we created a little space for her, kind of like a little memorial area. We created a shelf that had like her urn and then the blanket that she had been wrapped in and then her footprints and like a little beautiful area for her. And had that set up. But that was another reason why I didn't really leave the bedroom for a while because I didn't want to be in the same room with her either. Eventually, I got to the point that it was fine. And now she lives in wherever our living room is and has her own little setup.

And I actually, creating ways to still interact with her is important to me. Because in my mind, from my perspective, she's just as much of one of my kids as my other kids are. So I still want to include her and stuff. So she gets like her own Christmas tree on Christmas. And I made her a little like Halloween. I made her earn a little Halloween costume one year. That was so cute. So she always has like themed decorations.

Her spring decorations are almost ready. I'm ordering a couple more things because I spend money on her every single year because I just do. Well, I also feel like that's good for you and it's good for your other children because I think that it just it keeps what happened to her very much a lot. but in the most positive way possible. Right. Like I don't think that when things happen, even if it's the most heartbreaking, traumatic things that we should just push it under the rug

and act like it didn't happen. Yes. Because that's not good for us and it's not good for anyone else that's in our lives. And I feel like if you can create some sort of positivity in this beautiful remembrance of her, that's the best you can do at this point. Absolutely.

Yeah. Incorporating her into our lives has been a big healing factor for me. Yeah. So she gets her own holiday decorations. She had her own Christmas stocking. If I'm ever buying presents for the kids, oftentimes I'll buy something for her too.

And it goes into like a little, she has like storage boxes at this point of presents and clothes that I would have given her. And I don't know exactly what we're going to do with it. We might donate it. It might just stay. I don't know exactly. And the thing too is we always, we're constantly changing. And there might be a.

time that you just feel this calling to donate everything. Right. And then that could be, you know, like in her name. There might be other things that come up or other ideas that, you know, like maybe one day you'd make a whole foundation about her. Like you never know. Right. So it's like if that's what's working right now, that's amazing.

Yeah. And you just don't know what's to come and what ideas you might have or what you might be drawn to do or feel like you're meant to do. Yeah, absolutely. I've found a lot of comfort in tangible things. So we actually about 10 months after she died, we did a fundraiser and ended up donating a cuddle cot to a local hospital who didn't have one. If anyone wants to look up,

there's an organization that helps people do cuddle cot fundraisers. So it's called Madison's Miracles. So it's based off a baby who died named Madison. But if you go to their website, you can find where people are doing different cuddle cuttle fundraisers. And definitely send me all these links. Yes, I will. I want them all below.

Okay, perfect. I have tattoos of her. So I have her name and I have her little handprint. Oh, I love that. Oh, my goodness. That's incredible. I love that. Yeah.

Yeah, I know. Isn't it cute? Yes. Yes. So I have tattoos of her. I, when I kind of came out of my fog, I went on a shopping spree and ordered everything butterfly. I have so many butterfly things from Etsy from everywhere that my home just needed to be decorated in butterflies. And I feel less of a need to have tangible things around at this point because I'm more secure in the fact that I know that she existed and that's what matters.

But at the beginning, I needed to see reminders of her everywhere. If we ever see a yellow butterfly, it reminds us of her. So especially coming up, we're coming up on the springtime. And where I live, there's yellow butterflies everywhere in the spring. So I had yellow butterfly everything. Another tangible thing that I really found helpful was things that were. personalized with her name, her handprint, her, all of that stuff. So I went on an ordering spree initially. And then I ended up about two years after she died, because we're almost four

years out now. So about two years after she died, I actually created something I called the Amelia Project. And I learned how to embroider clothing. And then I learned how to embroider clothing. And then I would take custom orders from people who had lost babies and then I would make like personalized shirts for them with their child's name on it. So it would say like Amelia's mama or but whatever their information was. I learned how to embroider handprints so that I can embroider their handprints on there. It's not something I'm very active in right now, but it was a it was a period of time that I've found it very healing to help other people with like. kind of having something tangible, something to hold that reminds you that they existed.

The website's technically still active, but I just don't really do very much with it right now. Other things that were helpful for me afterwards was people offering tangible help. So I live in the South, so there's a whole lot of, if there's anything we can do for you, let us know. and half the time that doesn't really mean anything and I also at the time had no clue what I needed so I found helpful people who would say hey I'm bringing you a meal I'll leave it outside the door let me know what you like to eat or hey if you're open to it I would love to come over and just hear your birth story and just sit with you I had one friend the and still to this day I've had one person and asked to see a picture of her.

And while it was a complicated feeling for me because of the way that she looked specifically, it also felt so normal for them to ask. Because if you ever have a baby born, everyone's like, let me see a picture, you know, tell me about the birth story, that kind of stuff. So having people still ask those things about her, I found very healing.

Yeah. Because it felt like an acknowledgement that she still mattered, even though she's not here. And I also am in a little bit of a unique situation where at the time I also, I had another baby who a lot of people would ask about how he was doing, but not necessarily mention her. Because I think when you have somebody very close to you die or have a child die, people sometimes don't want to mention it because they're kind of trying to not make you feel sad.

But what I've realized since I've had a child die is that it makes me happy when people mention her because it's not like they're reminding me that she died because I already know that she died. Like there's no part of me that forgets that she ever existed. So having people acknowledge her, send me a picture that reminded them of her, ask about what kind of stuff I think she'd be into. Just random stuff just makes me feel like she's still kind of her spirit still exists in the world. which I love. Oh, so more things that I did that were helpful. I spent a lot of time, especially at the beginning. If it was raining, I was going outside. And I'm sure, I don't know if you've seen the trend. I think it was in like 2020 where people would go and just lay out in the rain. That was me, but in real life. Like, I would just sit and just the feeling of the rain

hitting my skin was very grounding somehow. Also just sitting and having the rain, the, waterfall on me in the shower. I did a lot of work with grounding because when you're feeling so up in the air and overwhelmed, it's helpful to just kind of take a deep breath, go into yourself and feel like you're real because sometimes it just, it can get so overwhelming, especially at the beginning. Let's see. Other things that I have done therapy and medicine. have been very helpful for me. I know they're not for everybody, but for me personally, I've been using them since. I started therapy two weeks after she died, and I have been taking med since six weeks

after she died. So both of those have kind of just helped dull the extreme feelings so that I can continue living my life. Right. And you still have two other children you need to be there for. So whatever works for you. Right, absolutely. Is what you need to do.

Absolutely. And I think that too, how I was saying earlier, you know, you never know what's to come down the road. But I do think that from this experience, you know, once you're at a place that you really feel grounded and stable from this experience that you've had, I think helping others is going to be so big for you. Yes, it already obviously has been. But I can just really see you doing something that could help others kind of get through

that process because unfortunately it seems like we were saying before in the medical field their job is just it's like get people to where they need to be that they can just like they're alive and they're walking and they're fine right and there is such a lack of support and even if it's kind of like in that moment we don't just need support right when things happen support needs to be ongoing yes because when we go home we're like alone again within ourselves and I think it's really important that everybody has a support system and that that continues. So I don't know. I just feel like even people listening to this, whether they've lost a child in a completely

different way, but just that feeling of losing a child, I feel like this can really just help them feel like they're not alone. And I think that's something that is so important to feel because in those moments, I feel like even though you had technically people to talk to, I think it's really easy to feel like you're alone in this journey and that you're the only one that understands and a lot of people don't don't get it. So I feel like it's so important to come and to talk about it and have it be more of an open, normalized conversation because anything that happens needs to be talked about. Because you're not the only one that's gone through it. Right. Right. Absolutely. It's really key.

Yes, definitely. I found connecting with people who have been through similar things to be very, very helpful. And I also want to note that everyone's grieving journey is very, very different. So even me and my wife have a very different grieving journey. I actually, at the beginning, somebody, I do not know who it was and why they said it, but they were like, you know a lot of people divorced after a child dies. And at the time I was like, oh no, I can't deal with that too. But I can absolutely see it because my wife and I have always had a very, very close relationship. but we also grieve very, very differently. I'm more emotive.

I need to talk about it. I need to cry. I need to scream. I need to just be sad sometimes. And she is kind of the exact opposite of me. It can cause like clashing. Yes, because especially in those early months, if you're not communicating how you're feeling

or why you're doing the things that you're doing, it can be very confusing. Because for me, if I'm not crying about something, talking about something, I don't really care about that thing. But that doesn't mean that just because she's not crying about it or talking about it, that she doesn't care about it. So I can very easily see a conversation if you're not really effectively communicating,

being like, why don't you care? How dare you say I don't care? And then it turning into a whole thing. Right. For sure. Like anger between two people. Exactly. And like you said, it can easily go that route.

But I think that that's why, like you said, communication and just genuine love is so key. Like knowing, look, however we're both dealing with this, we just need to be there for each other in whatever way that we can. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. It's very, very important. Let's see. Other things that, oh, so I also want to recognize that just for myself, grieving and healing is, I don't think it's ever really going to be over.

There's still stuff that I'm dealing with four years later where I'm like, damn it, why can't I just get my shit together? And I tell people that all the time on the show. You might have years where you feel healed and fine. And then one day just knocks you back down on your eyes. And that is so normal. Like we have to be, I think, a lot more gentle with ourselves as human beings. We're not meant to be cold and cut off and get through everything like it's nothing. Right.

So all we can do is be grateful and happy that we can continue on and be the best version of ourselves and push through for ourselves and for our children and for, you know, family, friends, whatever. But we also have to be very gentle and accepting that if we have a day that we just need to be by ourselves and lay down and shut the world off, that we give ourselves those moments too. Because we deserve that too. Like our mental health needs a break. Our emotions need a break.

Right. So. Right. And it's so hard, especially for me personally, I've never been very good at listening to my emotions. I've always been kind of like a push through kind of succeed. Let's get through this. Exactly. And that has fully changed after this experience. And I've really learned to listen to myself and my body and kind of recognize what my limitations are. And that my limitations are not because I'm failing and I can't do them. It's because I am a person with

needs and sometimes I can do things and sometimes I can't and sometimes I could have done it three months ago but I can't do it right now. A lot of times in the springtime I just feel heavy is the best way I can explain it. Like about a week ago, I talked to my therapist about coming on here because I was like, I just feel so heavy and I'm trying to figure out if it's like right for me to talk about it or if I need to take some like self-care time and take a step back. And we talked through it and I decided to go ahead and come on and talk about it. But I really listening to myself has been very important. It's changed. I've had to change my, the way I handle my careers, the way I handle interacting with people who have pregnancies, who are having baby showers. Because I do think

long term I do want to do something in this field. I want to help people who have been through still births. I would love to be like a death duel or something. But I also recognize that when I think about doing that right now, my body is like, nope. Not right now. And that's the thing too is you need, like I was saying before, you need to allow yourself to go through each step and each part of your journey and your own time, no matter how long that takes. But when you are mentally and physically ready to do those things, you will 100% know. Absolutely. You won't have the doubt or the the questioning. And I think too that sometimes that heaviness comes from the unexpected. And, you know, you might be able to know your story, like the back of your hand to tell people that

you're close to. But it really is opening an entire new door by sitting down across from somebody that you don't know and telling it to an audience that you don't know. Because it's like, this didn't happen. And then right after or even years after you're preparing yourself to be like, okay, I'm going to go on a public platform and talk about this. Right. Right. So I think it's very normal to feel like, is this the right thing to do? Absolutely. And I, to the, because I kind of forgot that people were listening, I was just talking. I know, but that's good.

That's good. That's how I want people to feel. Yeah. But to everybody who's listening, number one, you're not alone in whatever you're going through. There's somebody who has experienced it, even though it is an incredibly isolating experience. So I'm going to verbalize some resources and then I'll also give them to you. to kind of put out. So a big, big one is Star Legacy Foundation for Stillbirth specifically. They have support groups that are free. They have resources. They have people who you can reach out to

in the moment. They have a crisis line. They're absolutely wonderful. They fund research for Stillbirth, which is incredibly underfunded. So that is something that I absolutely would encourage people to look into the still hold on there's one at the magazine i'll just give you that one written because i can't remember it right now um look into local support groups they will have they have larger ones three-star legacy foundation oftentimes there's ones at local hospitals so like the bigger hospital that i gave birth that has a child loss specific support group um for people who know someone who is going through this, just be there for them in whatever capacity that you can be there for them. So offer to pick up on the things that you know that they'll

need to be doing if they have other kids, offer to watch them, bring them toys that might entertain them, ask if they want to just sit and talk about their child, bring up their child because I guarantee you if someone has had a baby or a child died, they're thinking about them already. And if you bring them up in conversation, they're going to be happy about it. If you feel nervous about it, you can always ask if they feel up to talking about it.

Or like when they're ready. Yeah, when you're ready, I'd love to hear your story. I'd love to hear about them. Is there anything I can do to help honor them? A lot of our family will, they've kind of picked up on the fact that when we purchase things for our kids. We also purchase something for Amelia. So like Amelia will get a Christmas gift in the form of like a donation to a charity kind of thing, which has been very validating. And yeah, just know that the person's

going to need your help for a while and just be there when you can. Obviously there's going to be times when you can't or times where they kind of step back and want their own space. But just honestly having someone to talk to about my child who died has been incredibly helpful and validating and finding kind of my people who I feel safe around. And also knowing that someone who has lost a child, they might need to step back from their friendship with you. I know at the beginning especially, I only really wanted to talk to people who had a similar experience to me because I felt like they were the only ones who really understand what I was saying. So just being respectful of kind of if somebody verbalizes that they need to just take a break and stop talking

for a little bit, that that's also something that they might need and it might not be that they really want to fully take a break from you or to... They just need time. They just need time. Yeah, it's a very individual experience and everything varies based on how old the child was, how they died, was it expected, unexpected. I mean, I can only speak for me and I have a very specific experience. So I know everybody else has a very different story that they could tell and different reactions

and experiences and things that they need from going through it. And, yeah, and I think, too, I was going to, the last thing I was going to mention is that I think it's great that you coming on here also gives the perspective to nurses and doctors if they're listening. Yeah. Because I think that obviously it's hard in their career to actually sit down and fully understand and listen to someone's perspective. So I feel like if they were to happen to have a situation like this come up down the

road in their career, they kind of have a different knowledge and sympathy for someone and what they're going through because of hearing your story. Yeah. You know, in a completely different way in a different platform. Yeah. But they kind of could listen to in their free time. So I feel like that is also really important to just educate people on emotions and what people really feel because like I said I can't express it enough we all we all are human so it's really important

to just remember that no matter how cold we kind of try to be or have to be in certain moments that it feels like but like I said before you are such an amazing storyteller you really are you did such an incredible job um I feel like you're so great with your words in the way that you just you just really know how to set the picture and really just put everything into perspective and you did incredible And I'm so happy that you decided to come on. Thank you. And that you talk to your therapist. I want to tell your story.

But no, you did such an incredible job. And you really should be proud of yourself and know that it's really going to touch a lot of people. And just like I said, even if somebody can't directly relate, I really do think it's always important to give people a completely new understanding and perspective of people that are going through or have been through what you've been through. Yeah. Because it's hard to understand and relate if you haven't been through it as well. Absolutely.

So you did such a good job. Thank you. Thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much. Of course.