We're All Insane - Child of a Sperm Donor (12+ siblings)

Episode Date: September 16, 2024

What started as a simple 23andMe test turned into a life-changing revelation! In this video, we follow the incredible journey of Haley, who uncovered a half-sister she never knew existed— Marla. After discovering one another, they came to find that they have over 12 siblings in total! Her dad's past as a sperm donor in college unraveled a hidden family tree she never expected. Watch Haley and Marla's emotional reactions, heartfelt conversations, and the amazing connections they have made with her newfound family. Links: [e-mail] you have a unique story you'd like to share on the podcast, please fill out this form: https://forms.gle/ZiHgdoK4PLRAddiB9or send an email to [e-mail] Inquiries please contact: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, it's me DeVora. I just dropped an all new bonus episode inside my new subscription channel, We're All Insane Plus. This week's bonus episode is called My Brain was slipping into my spine. Listen now by subscribing to We're All Insane Plus inside your Spotify or Apple Podcasts app or go to we're all insane.com. Hi, my name is Haley and I'm excited to share my story with you today. I'm going to be talking about how I grew up as an only child and then took 23 in me and discovered that I have way more family out there than I thought. Hi, I'm Marla. I also grew up with one brother and then with no idea about my ancestry and I signed up for 23 and me and discovered a lot of family. Growing up, I had what most people would describe to be the normal life. I was raised in New Jersey

in the suburbs by my mom and dad and it was just me, an only child. I also had what I thought was a normal childhood growing up. I was raised by my mother and her mother, my grandmother. I had one brother who was very clearly adopted. He is from a different country, so we did not look anything alike. So I'm used to having siblings. I don't look anything alike. It's kind of normal for me.

It's weird when they look like me. I'm not kidding. We were just talking in the car. I showed her a picture. I just met with one half sibling, and we look a lot alike. And it was very jarring for me. Right. You're like, I'm not used to this.

I'm not used. My brother and I do not look anything alike. I grew up believing that my father had died before I was born and that for some mysterious reason, there were no pictures of him that existed. Kids, you can tell kids lots of things and they're, they'll believe you. When I was 18, my mother was sick. And my grandmother, who was 93 at the time, spent the night in the hospital with her. and when she came home,

obviously she was 93, and she'd been up all night, she was exhausted. We had a newspaper in the house, and there was, for some reason, she was reading this newspaper, and there was an article about single-by-choice mothers and how in the early 80s,

there was a group of people who decided, I don't want to wait until I find a husband. I want a baby. I don't want to necessarily, I don't necessarily need a husband. And she looked and she's like, oh, that's what your mother did. Like, I'm sorry, what?

Now, by that, that time I was 18 and I had begun to suspect that my mother was not being honest with me. For a variety of reasons. For starters, when I was 12, I found out that her, I had a different last name from my mother, which was always confusing growing up to people because she said, oh, she kept her maiden name and I had my father's name. And I was like 12 or 13, someone pointed out to me that my mother's name, if you translated it into English, was my name. Like my last name. So we did in fact have the same last name. Which I was like, huh, what are the odds? of that, not high.

So for a while, I suspected there was something. And also, like, by the time you're a teenager, I guess you're somewhat cynical. And why are there no pictures? How did you completely erase? How did this person's existence? His existence was erased. His parents, he was an only, he was this fictional person, was an only child whose parents, you know, were lost in the Holocaust.

And my mother was born in 1940, is the other. thing. So for her, having a child out of wedlock, even under, you know, virgin birth circumstances, was still shameful. So she did not want anyone to know she had never been married. Even relatives had absolutely no idea where I came from. After I found Dean, I was meeting with a cousin and I told this cousin and she was like, you know, we were all really curious. Like, you just appeared. Like my brother made sense. My brother was clearly adopted, but I was not adopted. My mother was pregnant and she had me and I appear to have just appeared out of nowhere.

There were relatives who knew and everyone was sworn to secrecy. I had one cousin who I know kept trying to convince my mother to tell me the truth because I would ask him questions and he'd be like, hold on. And he'd like, I know he would go talk to my mom. But he kept it, he kept the secret also. Yes, so that was when I was 18, and I was when I learned that there was a sperm donor involved. And at which point I was like, well, there goes any chance of finding out anything. My story really begins in grad school where I was pursuing a degree in biostatistics. In grad school, you're required to attend weekly seminars in your field.

And one of these seminars in particular really stood out to me. One of my professors had decided to do 23 in me, and she bravely presented her results in front of everyone, students and faculty. And I was inspired to do it as well. So in December 2015, during winter break, I ordered my test kit, and I convinced my parents to do it as well. The kits arrived around Christmas. Taking the test was very simple. It was gross, but simple. Basically, you just spit into a plastic tube.

You send your DNA back to be analyzed. and then just wait for your results to appear on the... And how long does that usually take? You know, I don't exactly remember. I want to say it was maybe about a month. Okay, so a good amount of time that you're waiting. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah, I don't remember. I think like my results came in around January 2016. And when I received my results, there were no big surprises. I found out that I am 50% East Asian and Indigenous American, specifically Chinese, from my mom's side. and 50% European, specifically Ashkenazi Jewish from my dad's side. And then one thing that I'd either forgotten about or hadn't learned at all during this seminar

was that 23Me also provides a list of your DNA relatives who are in their database and have consented to having their results shared. And so I checked my DNA relatives list, and again, there were no surprises. I am indeed related to my mom and dad. And the next closest relative on my list at the time was a second cousin. when I signed up for 23 and me, I was looking to find out what my ancestry was. I didn't even know that they, I didn't know the DNA relative feature was there. I only knew it could tell you your ancestry composition.

Wow. And, you know, maybe some health stuff, which I, 50% of my background was a giant question mark. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So my husband, my husband works a tech company and so he was very into the 23Mee.

He thought it was technology doing something really cool. So we both did it, even though he knows he can trace his ancestry back quite far. He was like, no, I want to do it too. Maybe there's like a surprise in there. Nope, just for you. He had no surprises, but mine came back 99.3% Ashkenazi, which I was like, huh, guess the doctor was wrong. Yeah. That's weird.

Oh, well. And then because my husband had done it, we're like, well, we're not cousins, so it's all good, you know, no problems. Right. And then I think it was like another week later. My husband was like messing around with the website. And he's like, oh, look, there's a DNA relatives button. Did you click on that?

Like, maybe you'll find, like, a distant cousin who maybe has some idea about, you know, who your father could be. And I was like, oh. So I went upstairs and I clicked on it and said, half sister. And I'm like, this can't. It literally, like, the words, it could have been any language. Like, it didn't make sense. I'm like, I don't know what those words mean.

I literally just. Like, how? Like, in my head, I would just be like, what? How? You know what I mean? There's so many questions. I didn't even have questions yet. I was just staring at the words.

they literally they they like gibberish yeah i'm like i don't i don't know what that means and i called him and i said i i don't understand it says i have a half-sister and i immediately lock my account i i made my profile private i i've lost like i i lost it a little bit for start is it was haley um i had no way of knowing if she who she was if she knew or if was i about was like my presence about to completely implode her life. Right. Was this going to destroy someone else's family? Like, did finding, did this connection just ruin somebody else's family?

And I, it took me like another 24 hours before I could unlock my account and send that message because I was terrified. I, and then we messaged, I messaged Haley, and she responded, and she was so chill. And I was like, okay. So she knew about this. as a possibility. When I received a private message from Marla, it said, Hi, this is a fairly strange situation.

I signed up for 23 and me and just got my report. It says we're half sisters, and I don't know what to make of that. I would really like to get in touch with you if you're open to it. Thanks, Marla. Wow. Now, I was understandably very confused. Yeah, I was going to ask, what was your reaction and your initial thoughts to that? My initial thought was, this can't be right.

Right, like no way. There's no way. Yeah. Like, I'm an only child. There's just no way that this is right. So I decided to confirm, and I clicked my DNA relatives list. And sure enough, Marla was listed as my half-sister on my dad's side. We share 22.4% of our DNA. And I didn't know what to make of that either, but I was eager to reach out. Yeah. So we exchanged some messages. And I also found out that Marla has four children, which is, you know, making me somewhat of an aunt. So I knew the next part was immediately telling my dad. And I'm not really a phone person.

I'm more of a texter. So when I called him, he knew to pick up and it was important. And I told him that I had news and that he should be sitting down for this. And I explained that according to 23 and me, I have a half-sister. And he has another daughter. And I think he chuckled nervously at first and said something like, no way. But then he said that he had donated sperm a few times in his mid to late 20s. Wow.

Oh. You know, I had every reason to believe my dad. Yeah. He's a good man. And in the timing of the sperm donation, aligned with Marla's age. And so he was also able to pull up his results and confirm that Marla was my half sibling and also his daughter. And then I also had to give him the news that, you know, not only does he have another daughter, but he has four grandchildren. So he's a grandfather too.

And that's a lot of information at once. It's like complete change. You know what I mean from what you think? It's a complete change. I think he was shocked, but he took the news really well, and he was also very eager to reach out and to talk to you and get to know you. My assumption was she would be a half-sibling who was also the product of a sperm donation, because what are the odds?

I log into this website, and for the first 24 hours on this website, I find my biological father who I have looked for, like, been curious about for 34 years. That seemed statistically improbable. I'm not a statistician, but that seems unlikely to me. And then she said, no, her father is a sperm donor. I was like, oh, so you, your father was, so your parents used a sperm. She said, no, no, my father is the sperm donor. And I lost it again a little bit.

It, like, gives me chills, though, because it, like, immediately gives you that answer. Yeah. And I don't know when Dean had done it because he didn't show up on my profile immediately. he showed up the next day. The only information my mother had about the donor was that he was a doctor. He was redhead. He was a redhead. And he was not of Ashkenazi Jewish descent because my mother is Ashkenazi.

And she wanted an Ashkenazi donor, but her doctor who was not the same doctor Dean worked with, which is where this starts to get a little shady. My mother's doctor told her that he would not use a Jewish donor at all because you don't want your, legitimately, you don't want your kid growing up with marrying their cousin. Um, so none of those three things were accurate. Turns out. Wow. Dean is not a doctor. Not a doctor. Not really a redhead. Not really a redhead. Auburn hair. Yeah. Even though I had known my, not my whole life, I had known for, for a long time that my mother had used a sperm donor.

I'm Anna Garcia, host of True Crime News, the podcast. Every week, we bring you in-depth coverage on cases making headlines, as well as those that go under the radar. Tune in for murders that defy explanation, mystery seeking exploration, and shocking secrets that will leave you breathless. Each week, we honor the victims by going beyond the salacious in our search for justice. Crime never stops, and neither do we. Listen to true crime news available now wherever you get your podcast. It still felt like an assault on my identity because part of my identity was not knowing who my father was. Like that question mark, that gaping hole, was. was the thing I was used to.

That was part of who I was. I was not, I wasn't 18 anymore. I was 34. Like, it had been part of how I saw myself my whole life. My whole life, there was a gaping hole there. First, it was because this mysterious husband of my mothers had died mysteriously, and mysteriously, like, all pictures ceased to exist. So there was a giant question mark.

And then it was a sperm donor who was untraceable because, it was untraceable. My mother's doctor didn't even write. First she thought he had written down the donor's name and then hadn't written down the donor. It was either way, it was untraceable. So all I had was I had my mother and I had my mother's family. And that is a family tree I can trace back fairly far. And then I had this hole on the other side.

And suddenly that hole got plugged in one afternoon with no warning. There was no like I'm searching. I'd essentially given up trying to. to find him because there was almost no way of doing it. There are a bunch of websites. There's the donor sibling register, but I'm too old, honestly, I'm too old for it. Because there were no sperm donor numbers

when my mother was doing it. Okay. There was no, it wasn't, I don't mean, I mean, clearly it was frozen, but there was no, my mother didn't pick from a book, you know, she just went to her doctor. And he said, okay, here's the, here's the sperm. Like that's it, there was no,

choice on her end. There was no, there was no, nothing, no way of tracing. Um, so I had at some point just given up. I, I was not in the process of looking and I'm like, aha, you know, it was not like a wasn't planned. It was not planned. It wasn't, it wasn't even hoped for. Like, I, I guess I had sort of sealed that off. Like, this was, this was it. Like, I, best I could hope for was to find out what my ancestry was through DNA, through 23 and me, but that, that was it. I had never, given serious thought to what would happen after finding. Yeah. Finding them.

And then I did. Literally just one afternoon, it just, it felt like my world got turned upside down. I was super freaked out because this is wonderful. But like you said, there was a chance this could have been a disaster. Like I could have been blowing someone's life up. One of us could have been crazy. Right, right. You just never know.

I thought about that too. You know, like I had, I mean, I had four little kids. I was like, ah, what is this a good idea? Yeah. This could be a total disaster. Like, I don't know what I just, what I just did. And while it was, I want to make it very clear, this was a positive thing. Yeah.

It was a roller coaster. It was, what do I tell my kids? My kids were little. I had, my twins were four at the time. a six-year-old and an eight-year-old. Like, they were little. They were, I had, I had made a point in my life of not lying to them about where, who my father was. I didn't have one.

He wasn't dead. He wasn't this fictional character whose name is on my birth certificate. But, you know, I explained that to make a baby you need apart from a mommy and apart from a daddy and some doctors can help you get those parts. Like, whichever when you're missing, you can go to a doctor and a doctor will help you get that part if you need it. And that's how I was born. And was your mother still alive at this time that you found him? Yes. Did you have a conversation with her about it? Eventually, yes. It took a little while, but I did want her, at that point, I actually wanted her to do 23 and me because I was worried,

are they related? Because they're both Ashkenazi Jews. Are they, are they, like, I'm not related to my husband, but are my biological parents related? That became my next concern. Um, so. So on three separate occasions, I tried to sit my mother down to discuss this with her. And finally, I worked up the courage and I told her that to my three me and how I had found him. At which went, I realized my mother really needed hearing aids. And I had to raise my voice and have the entire conversation again because she had no idea what I was talking about. She thought it was very interesting. And she could never bring herself to say his name.

I told her what his name was and she could never say it. She couldn't refer to him as my father. She couldn't refer to him as anything. So, you know, this got me wondering, how did this all happen? In order to answer that, we need to jump back in time to the late 1970s. So my dad, Dean, was doing research. I'm not going to refer to the hospital name. But one day in 1979, one of my dad's work acquaintances, who was an OBGYN, and I'm going to call him Dr. H,

said that he was doing in vitro fertilization, and he asked my dad to be a donor. Now, in vitro fertilization only became a thing in 1978. So this was essentially the wild, wild west of these sorts of procedures. And my dad being a youngish man at the time said, yeah, sure, that doesn't seem like a big deal. There were absolutely no regulations back then. There was no formal donor profile on my dad. And the deal was that my dad, Dean, would never know if there was a pregnancy. And Dr. H. always used multiple donors, or so my dad was told.

So the pregnant person would not know who the father was. My dad estimates that over the course of about two years, Dr. H asked for donations about five times. And yet we know that there are more than five babies that came out of this. So I think there are many things we can infer. One being that the samples were split. Two, that the samples were frozen. And I think this because my half-siblings were born between June 1980 and June 1982. And three, it is unlikely that multiple donors were used, or in other words, the samples probably

were not mixed. Now, I don't necessarily want to paint Dr. H is shady, as all this was very new and unregulated, but I think that there was definitely a degree of dishonesty going on. And I'm sure Dr. H. and my dad as well never thought that we'd want to have the technology to do these genetic tests and that the results of these anonymous sperm donations would come to light. So at that point, you know, I found out I have some new family. I thought that was pretty cool, but I kind of thought that was that. And that would be the only big surprise.

So things were normal after a while. I would get the occasional notification from 23 and me saying that I had new DNA relatives, but they were usually distant cousins. And then in March 2018, it happened again. I found out that I have a half-brother and I had to have the exact same conversation. with my dad. I think I just told him, you did it again. And he knew immediately what I was talking about and just started laughing. Oh my gosh. So basically, the way that they find, if you have like any other relatives, those people would have had to take the 23-Meat test as well? Yes. Okay. So if somebody

doesn't take it, then you really wouldn't know. Exactly. Ah, interesting. Okay. So these are just people who opted into the test and also people who opted to share the results because you can keep that private. it. Wow. Okay. And then I wouldn't even know about them. Yeah. That is crazy. It's like in my opinion, it goes to show that it's like it was meant to happen because there are so many things that could have made you guys not know and then it just like linked and happened because the way it was supposed to. Yeah, I think so too. It's overall been a very net positive experience for me. So yeah, I found out about the half-brother. And he had already sent my dad a message on 23 and me privately just to ask him some health-related information.

But other than that, he made it pretty clear that he wasn't really interested in having a relationship or getting to know us. And, you know, I respect that. It's fine. And then, yeah, things settled down again until about January 2021 when I was notified of another half-sister. And I'm just going to refer to her as A, which is not a pretty little liar's reference. But I'm going to get back to her later.

Okay. So at this point, I knew that I had three half-siblings. But for some reason, I just again thought that was it. I would not find anymore. My dad hadn't donated that many times, so it wouldn't make sense to discover more of any. And as I would find out, I was very mistaken about that assumption. So about a month later, February 2021, my dad received a private message on LinkedIn, of all places from someone named Danielle, who thought that he might be her biological father.

Danielle had taken ancestry. And while no one in my immediate family had taken ancestry, one of my first cousins, I'm going to refer to her as M on my dad's side of the family was in the ancestry database. So Danielle was able to see that M was her first cousin too. And then with some internet research and personal sleuthing, she was able to piece together that my dad was her biological father. Oh my goodness. So then after my dad connected with Danielle,

we found out that I have six more half siblings through ancestry. Oh, and okay. So explain this to me. So ancestry completely different. Completely different. So, and do the results link it all or no? No. So how many half siblings do you have total?

Well, at this point nine. Okay. But that's not where the story is. Oh, gosh. Okay. So we're only getting started. Yeah. Okay.

So after ancestry, you found six more. Yes. Okay. So, yes, there are three from 23 and me and six from ancestry at this point. And this is all unfolding like over multiple, what, years, right? Multiple years, I think from 2016 to 2021. Got it. Okay.

So jumping back to the story, at this point, we're up to 10 of us, six half-siblings from ancestry, three from 23, me, and me. My dad turned 70 in August 22, and I decided to throw him what I'm calling a family union because I can't quite call it a reunion since a lot of us had never met before. And I got in touch with as many of my half-siblings as I could. And five agreed to meet up. And thanks to Marla for hosting. It was absolutely lovely.

And after the party, we started a chat on Discord to stay in touch. But the story does not end there. February of this year, another half-brother popped up on 23 and me. And he had no idea that the dad who raised him, is not his biological father. And then not only that, but one of my half-sisters A, the one I referred to earlier, she has a twin brother, and he had never taken a genetic test. And I think he's completely ignorant to the fact that his dad is not his biological father.

And it's easy to think that A's twin brother is also one of our half-siblings, but if the sperm samples were actually mixed and maybe some of my family, of them were, it's possible that he's not related to us and we'll probably never know. Given everything that's happened so far, I think it's not a leap to say that there are probably way more out there since, you know, we were able to find about 10 of them just through ancestry and 23 in me alone. And most people probably never even think to take a genetic test. I was going to say some people, I'm sure, just live their lives. And if they're not curious, why would they take the test? Yeah. And like for me, I only took it for the health reasons. I

even really interested in the ancestry part at all. Right. That's crazy. That makes me want to take one just to see. Who can I find? Yeah, you never know. Right. No, literally though. But it, you know, it does make a good point because like you said, it's true. I'm sure a lot of people. And obviously, it's amazing and great that it all turned out good and it's like a positive story. But it's like, it can really like stir the pot for some people, I'm sure, if it's not the case that you guys had. And people's lives are like confused or flipped upside down and they're like, wait, what is going on? And I'm sure to some degree, like maybe for some of the half siblings that didn't know that their dad was not their biological dad. It's like it confuses them and it makes them sad, I'm sure.

Like it can be a lot for people. It's a big deal. Yeah. I think that's why I'm so understanding of why some people just need that time to process and might say some people don't even want a relationship with us at all. I'm completely empathetic to that. Like, I didn't have that news of finding out, like, my dad's not my bio-dad. Yeah, exactly. When my mother was sick, by complete chance, Dean was working at a company, at a pharmaceutical

company. He worked for the same company where the trial my mother was being enrolled in was from that company. Okay. And she was curious. Does he know anything about the program? But she couldn't ask me. She's like, you know, you know, he was living in California.

at that time he's like, you know, the guy in California, who you know, that's how she referred to him. The guy, the guy in California that you know. And no, he didn't. It was, it couldn't tell me anything about the trial, obviously. Yeah. Yeah, so she didn't really want to know anything about it. She didn't want to think about him. She didn't know anything about, I'd even bother telling her.

I don't think I ever told her about the half siblings. I probably told her about you. But when other ones popped up, I didn't. There were so many. Right. Yeah. Right. Right, here we go again and again.

Right, exactly. Well, no, but she passed away in 2017. Okay. So the large number showed up in 2021. Right. So there were only two or three of us at that point. Okay. And then how soon after you guys speaking did you meet each other?

It was fairly soon afterwards. I remember going to New York to see you. I don't forget when that was, though. I was still in grad school. It was over the summer, I remember, because my kids were in camp. Yeah. So I think it was like that we met. We discovered each other in February,

because it was right, my twins, it was right after, like the day after my twins' birthday. Or like the day before my twins' birthday, it was around then. So it was early February, and we met in July.

Okay. Maybe August, but that's summer. So a few months later. That's amazing, though. Yeah. That's great. And then you met your father? Mm-hmm.

I met, did I meet team before? I think we met first. I think we might have met first. I don't remember. I was very nervous. I feel like Dean was also, I think, like, in the very beginning, we were both very like, I'm sure. What are you looking for in this relationship kind of thing?

He's also not the most social of people. Right. So, I mean, I didn't know him at all. So I felt very hesitant and I, perhaps I was reading into it and it wasn't there, but I felt a sense, a hesitancy on his side. Like, I don't, like, he, in fact, one time told me, he's like, I can't be a grandfather. I was like, you don't, you don't have to be. That's interesting.

They have one. They're good. Like, we're, I, so, yeah, so we went, Dean and I stayed in touch by email for, we emailed back and forth a lot. Well, frequently, I'd say frequently. We met for coffee eventually in the city. Was I there for that? Because I remember the three of us meeting up together also. No.

We did, we met later, the next, that's the following year, I think. I was very nervous on multiple, for multiple reasons, but one of them was also like, I have 34 years of wishing to have had that hole of like who, where do I come from plugged. And now I have no idea what to do with this information. I felt like, it's a silly analogy, but like when a dog is chasing a car, like what heck do they do when they catch up with a car? Like I kind of felt that way. Like I'd been chasing this thing and it just fell into my lap and now I'm like, I have no idea what to do now. don't really think about like, well, where's this going? It's more so, well, like, yeah, I'd love to meet him, but then what? Exactly. Like, I don't, I don't know how to have a relationship with a father. Also, I'm 34. So, like, seems like that. Do I fill you in in the last 34 years? Right. Like, precisely. Like, I, I have, and also, I'm, I'm fairly shy. Like, I, I didn't feel

comfortable just asking. So what is it that you're looking for in this relationship? Because I also didn't have an answer myself. Like, I had no idea what I was. I wanted to know who he was, what he was like. But like my whole life, I'd always wanted a picture of what my father looked like. That's the thing as a child. I always felt like if I just had a picture of him, I would have closure. Like, or any mark or anything that explained his existence. Like if my mother knew where this mysterious person was buried and I could visit

as great, like, anything to like give some sort of closure to this mystery person. then I'd have some closure on that. But it never once occurred to me. I was going to meet a living, breathing person and that he was going to be the person to put, to be like in that gap. And also, not even just that, but it was a different story than what you grew up thinking.

So that's like a whole other, I feel like thing too, because I feel like until what, you were 18, you think one thing. Exactly. And then like the next, however many years, it's like a completely different thought. Yes. And so, yeah, from the time I knew he was a sperm donor,

I had essentially just, like I said, I'd written off the possibility of finding him or anything about him because the only person who had any idea or any had the possibility of knowing of who he was, there was no way for me to get in touch with my mother's doctor. Like I didn't know how to find him. I didn't know anything. My mother had his name, but that was it.

I did actually randomly run into him. And I was too late to, like, grab him before he got in the elevator when my mother was going through chemo. He just walked past us. And I was like, oh, that's funny. That name sounds familiar. Why did it? Because he was wearing a name attack. And I was like, this doctor walking past him.

I'm in chemo. There's doctors everywhere. I'm like, why do I know that name? Why do I know? Like, oh, my God, that's your doctor. And I jumped up and the elevator doors closed. And we never saw him again. And I later found out he died a few weeks later.

Like he must have been there for chemo himself. So I literally, we passed each other in a hallway and it just did not, it didn't click fast enough for me to grab him. But by then I'd already, I'd already found them. So I don't even know what I would have asked him other than like, how did this happen? Right. Explain the problem. Like that's the one thing I really wish I could have now is someone to explain how. Like step by step. How did it happen?

How did any of us happen? because the only thing that makes any sense to me is that there is one set of half siblings to us who are full brothers. Okay. The only thing I can think of is that the sperm was saved for them because they're older than us. And then it was just like, hey, anybody else want this. It seems to work. Like trickle it out.

Right. Right. This one works. We know this one works. So anybody else wants some if you need like a sure thing, you know? Right. That is the only story I can come. come up with that makes any sense. Unfortunately, all the doctors who would know are unavailable for

various reasons. The dean was donating in 78. I was born in 81. So clearly, they got frozen, which I didn't even think they were doing back then. I think it's incredible too because, you know, like kind of going back to what you were saying about not knowing where their relationship is going to go. I think it's still, you know, as a human, you want, you have that curiosity of how much am I like my parent? And, you know, it's like, even if you don't, you don't, you know, it's like, even if you don't have the closest relationship, it's in your mind. I think you still want to know kind of like, did I get any qualities from this person? Do a look alike and things like that?

It's fun in a way. And I think that it makes you, in a way, kind of gives you a different type of closure to understand yourself a little bit more too. Because you didn't have that growing up. You only had your mom. And then it's like you get to learn a whole different side of yourself. Yes. Which is so intriguing. And then you get siblings too, which is awesome.

So is it only you two that have kind of formed a relationship from this whole thing? Or you kind of talk to some other siblings as well? We do have a discord chat of all of the half siblings who opted into that. I don't think everybody's in it, but I think most of them are. And we also have, we've been trying to have annual get-togethers too in a more central location, which I guess is. That's what I was going to ask. So I know you guys are fairly close. are all the other siblings kind of like scattered out all over the place?

Are you guys kind of all close? Actually, I think I'm one of the farther ones. There is one in California. Okay. But then, yeah, Maryland, there's a lot in New York. We're all from the East Coast area originally because that's where the hospital was. Okay. Is hospital still there?

But a lot of you stayed. Right. I feel like I left the state, but I want to move closer actually because I'm like, I want to get to know everyone. I want to be closer. And no, I really think that it's amazing. And it's so I'm glad. that it ended up being such a good outcome and such a good story. Because I mean, with anything, things can go good.

They can go back. You just never know. But I think that it's so it's intriguing to me how different even just your stories are of like, you know, and the fact that it's, that is your dad. And you had like a completely different mindset and relationship, obviously because and then these other children, they like, they think they either don't have a dad or, you know, something happened. and you just don't know. And it's just, it's so crazy that like this one man, like, you know what I mean? Like different people have all these different mindsets. And he's just sitting here like, I was just trying to do a good thing.

Donate some sperm. I also think when we were talking about this a little in the car, but I think most people had no idea that their dad wasn't their bio dad until they did 23 and me. And then they were like what is happening right now. But some of them are more dramatic than others. Yeah. Which makes sense though because, you know, like I said, even just between you two, like it does go to show how different.

everybody's story is and, you know, their upbringing and what they thought and and did and didn't, didn't know, which is just, it's incredible. And I think it's even more incredible that there are these types of, you know, tests that you can take that not only obviously can tell you your background and what you, you might be predisposed to and all this stuff, but the fact that you can, you know, even if it's something as simple as cousins, you know, or something just down the line of just meeting people that you could end up having such a good loving, you know, relationship with and form these bonds with. And then it just kind of expands your family. And I feel like you can never have too much family. So I think it's incredible for those reasons for sure. Yeah. I mean,

I definitely feel comforted knowing that there is more family out there. And again, just that everyone has just been just such an awesome person so far. Like we haven't met any like psychos or murderers that we know of. Yes. Yeah. And I think that says some good things about, your dad. So that's a good thing. And that is a thing too, because I got to grow up with him. And I do feel like in a way that I'm sure everyone had great upbringings in their own way. But like my dad, it really was a good father. And I'm like, I'm kind of sad that they didn't get to grow up with him too. And I think in a way that's kind of where you step in too. Like it's like, yeah, you get to have your own relationship. But then you can almost teach them how your childhood was. And you know what I mean?

And kind of like show who your dad is as a person. and your experience. I don't know. That's how I look at it. I think it's just such a positive, amazing thing for sure. Absolutely. And I mean, he's also been in everyone's lives too. Yeah. That's great. I love it. When, like I said, in the very beginning when we were first meeting, I was very hesitant and I felt like maybe he was hesitant also, but that evaporated very quickly. When my mom got sick, you guys were, they were both very, very helpful. Dean would email me, you know, put your own oxygen mask on. If you collapse, you're not helping anybody, which at that point I didn't

really, I still had four little kids because she got sick about a year after we met. So that was something I needed to hear. And in my head, I was like, I guess that's something a parent would remind you to remind you to do. It provides a sense of comfort to. Yeah, it was, they were very comforting when my mom was sick and I was lack. I mean, my husband was fantastic, but I had no other real family support. My brother was not coping well. So, It creates like a support system for you. People to lean on. It's always good.

The more people you have, the better. So I got married in September 2018. And I, you know, the guest list is always difficult to make for that sort of thing. And I thought, I want to invite Marla. I think at that point, we were the only ones who were in touch. And my mom was like, oh, I think that would be an okay idea. But maybe let's just not tell the rest of the family, like who she is. just in case it causes any sort of drama.

And I said, okay, that's fine. I think you're okay with that too. Your bridal shower, your dad's cousins all knew, and your mom was so excited to meet me. But Dean did not want his mother to know. It was just grandma. It was just grandma who had no idea. But all of your dad's cousins who were there wanted to talk to me.

Somebody must have told them because they all knew. And I was very, like, everyone had made it clear, grandma doesn't know you can't tell her. I'm like, I don't know which one she is. So that would have been your dad's mom. Yeah. Okay. Yes. And she didn't know that he donated sperm. I don't think she knew. Okay. Or about his like 11 kids. Yeah. So we just, we just weren't really sure how she would react. It wasn't the matter of like, this is this big, like, dark secret. But we just didn't know. And she was in her 90s at that time. She's still alive and she's still in her 90s. Almost 100 now. Wow. Yeah. Incredible.

And I think she eventually she did find out. I guess dad told her. And I think she took it really well. Dean told me she was really excited about it. So he was in retrospect, he wasn't sure why he had hesitated to tell her for so long. But it was particularly special to me because I was raised by my mother and her mother. So my grandmother, who had passed away literally three weeks before my first child was born. my grandmother and I were very, very close.

And so it was very exciting to me to, like, have a grandmother again. So that was, that was great. I'm still in touch. Like I sent her Mother's Day card this year, and she called me. I send her pictures of my kids periodically. Sometimes I'll send Dean pictures of the kids to put. She's got like a digital thing, I think. She has a digital picture frame.

Yeah. So I'll send him pictures to add to it of my kids. So you met her, was it at the bridal shower? No, no, no, it was years later. Okay. It was like a year later, I think. I mean, you might have met her at the bridal shower in wedding. She was there, but she didn't know who you were.

Right. It was a secret. The bridal shower was, I don't want to say awkward because that's the wrong word, but like I said, your dad's cousins were super excited to meet me. And they wanted to ask me questions, and I really wanted to hide because they were sitting with her grandmother who had no idea who I was. So it was a little odd that all of Haley's friends were at one table and they just kept pulling me back to their table. And I'm like, she's going to think something's up.

Right. Something is like, someone's going to slip. But no, no one did. I don't know what she thought I was doing at their table with all of the cousins. But she was great. So I had met her. I got to. I knew who I was talking to when we conversed, but she had no idea who I was, which was awkward.

Right. Because I'm like, am I being dishonest? I don't, I don't know what the etiquette is here. Right. Yeah, yeah, right. What do you do? Like the etiquette is still being learned. And then it was like what you said like a year or so later.

I drove my kids down to meet her, which was fun. It was, my daughter is terrified of cats because she's mildly allergic to them. And Dean had some cats and she was almost climbed up. Oh my, she was like climbing on me. And then grandma said, just sit with me. I don't like them either. Or something like that. Grandma's the only one on that side of the family who doesn't like cats.

Otherwise, we're all cat people. Bunny, sit with me. I don't like the meter. That's like such a normal reaction. I feel like for people that like don't really care for cats. They're like, yeah, I can do without them. I'm like, you haven't had a good one yet. I don't understand that.

I'm like, give me your cats. Yes, yes, yes. That is amazing, though. That's great. I'm really glad. And like I said, I feel like. you really can't have too much family. And I always like to say it's better late than never, truly,

because I feel like, I mean, think how much in a way, it's like, yeah, like when you're younger, even for you, it's like you didn't have the same mindset and story. But you grew up like as an only child and more alone you could say. And now it's like I feel like it gives you guys, like it fills this hole and this emptiness that you guys have maybe both had but kind of in a different way. and now you guys have each other, which is so nice.

It's an amazing story, seriously. And I'm so curious if there's more kids out there. I'm positive. What if in like two years you guys get like a ding another notification? And that's the thing is like there are more platforms out there besides 23 and me and ancestry. I mean, I don't really know what they are. I know a bunch of years ago before 23 and me that there was a, I forgot what it stands over. There's a company called Cabri.

where I signed up because it was like the only thing, only company at the time who was offering to even attempt to connect sperm donor as sperm donor offspring with, to match them with siblings or donors. But for a woman to participate, you needed your DNA, your mother's DNA, and your mother's closest male relatives DNA. And my mother's brother sent in, he filled out whatever form is, he did the swab, he sent it in, and they called me a few weeks later and said, nope, nobody in our database that comes even close. Like, nobody matches you. I'm like, oh, well. Like, there's, um, it was just interesting to think, though, that like there's a chance and that you just never know, like, one day you could just,

another one might pop up. Yeah. Oh, I'm expecting it at, at this point just because, I mean, if we were able to find so many already just through these two platforms and I guess like people are becoming more, more curious about these. And maybe after listening to this, too, people will be curious to do it as well. I was very surprised at all the insights 23Mee could provide. Beyond ancestry composition, 23Mee also tests carrier status for certain genetic disorders, such as cystic fibrosis, sickle cell anemia, TASX disease. Learning about carrier status is important when it comes to family planning to find out if you and your partner share carrier status for a certain disease that could potentially be passed down to your offspring.

And 23 Me also test for your own health risks by assessing certain genetic markers. For example, it could show if you have genetic variants for the brachines, which are associated with breast and ovarian cancer, celiac disease, late onset Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, type 2 diabetes, and more. I have a friend of mine that I think took, I don't know if it was that test because I know there are, like there's different names and different ones, but I think it was something like that where it can tell you, you know, with your family health history and things that you might be more predisposed to or have a risk of, which is really important, especially nowadays,

like, the worst thing is when you aren't planning and you don't have any idea of what you could have or what could come up or what you're at risk for. So I think even for those reasons, it's so important to know that those options are out there because, I mean, it might be a little gross to take, but it's pretty simple. It's very easy. It's very easy. It's just been a tube. Yeah, like it's not too bad. So, well, I think that's a little bit. Amazing. Seriously. Yeah. I think it's been amazing too. It is. It's been intentional.

Yes. I would say the thing I think that surprised me the most is how many people signed up for it who didn't know. Right. I think that's what, like, I signed up because I knew I didn't know. I knew what the mystery was and I was hoping it would give me a few clues. But for all the people who sign up, are like, oh, no, I can trace my ancestry back, you know, five, six generations. And I'm like, so why did, why did you do this? Yeah. So that is the thing I'm very curious about like how many more are going to, because I feel like we found all the ones who knew.

I feel like the only ones left to find are probably ones who didn't know because honestly back then in the 70s and 80s, you were told not to tell. Like it was the prevailing wisdom was the kids don't need to know this. Like closed adoptions, closed sperm domain. Right. It wasn't something that's as open I feel like it is today. It was very like don't, especially in a family that. had two parents. It's like, why? Just don't rock the boat. Like, let the kid grow up thinking that you know, they have two parents, which they do. Yeah. And even like, that's what I was saying, too, even for some people, they might not, I think for some people, it might be easier not to

dive deep and find out. Like some people, they don't want to know. And that's fine too. Like you said, like everybody's different. And yeah, so I think for me and like the psychological impact it's had on me, I think, I mean, it's been a whirlwind for sure. You know, growing up as an only child and then finding out there's way more family out there. But I think it's been a net positive mostly because everyone I've met so far has just really been a decent person. And also, I didn't have to go through the finding out, like, my dad's not my bio dad. I think, like, the only real struggle I've had with all of this. And like, I also want to just say that this is coming from my own insecurities and not because of anything like anyone did or said to me. But I also kind of feel

like I don't fit in with the others, like the group because, well, the dad who raised me is my biological father. I'm biracial, so I don't share all the same traits. Like, if you look at them, they all look like my dad. And like, I love that so much, but I just don't. Yeah. And I'm also younger than the rest. There's this, there's a photo of us that we took at my dad's 70th birthday where I just

look like the odd man out because they all just share so many features with him. But to me, like that's what makes it so unique. Yeah. Because sometimes I was talking about a couple of my friends before we filmed today and I was like kind of giving them the rundown of the episode. And I was like, it's crazy though because, you know, some siblings, they're like identical. It's like you look at them. It's like same face. One has long hair.

You know, it's something like that. But it's so interesting because even when we had our call, it's like it's not like you guys look alike at all. No. So it's like, you know what I mean? So it's like it makes it even more unique in my opinion. I agree. But also, if you see them all together, I feel like a lot of you look alike. And like, you definitely look like at least half siblings. I do love that, though. Yeah. You know, I think being raised as an only child, you know, I've always been curious about that sibling bond. But we also met well into adulthood. And so I also kind of feel like, like, I missed out on like getting to like grow up with them and getting to know them. But it's been interesting to see the similarities and differences in our strange little cohort of half siblings. Yeah. I was going to say, too, something that you just said that I was thinking about as well is I think that as you get older, it's almost harder to make new friendships because everybody's on their own path, so in journeys in life. So it's almost like you were given new friends. And like even though you guys are half siblings, it's like you, at least you, someone's put into your life that's a good person that you can form this bond in friendship with. Like, yeah, it sucks that you didn't have it as a kid. I feel like everybody wants to have their siblings. I'm an only child as well, so I understand. But at the same time, it's like, like I said, as you get older and into adulthood,

it's like it's harder to make real, authentic, genuine connections with people. So it's like you are given that, which is good. Even though it's a little late, you got that, which I think is really special still, too. Yeah, getting to meet everyone and learning about everyone's families and getting everyone's stories. And how different everybody's lives are. Oh, so different. Yeah. I just wanted to highlight a few things of some similarities between us.

I did like a very small poll on Discord and most or all of us are chocoholics, addicted to coffee, our animal lovers, have allergies and more or less aligned politically. Okay. And also even in our group of 11 for now, there are at least four of us who have PhDs or MDs. So I feel like there's like certainly something to be said for nature versus nurture. And then, yeah, the last thing I just wanted to say was I also just wanted to make it clear that I am not a spokesperson. for 23 of me or ancestry. I'm not getting paid for this as much as I'd love to be.

And while this has been overall a very positive experience for me, you never know what you're going to find when you take these sorts of tests. And you never know what family secrets could be exposed. And like I honestly don't even know how unique our story is. But I guess like I just want to know how many more we have to discover before we get our own TV show. Yeah. No, well, I think, I think too, what makes something. look, I'll say this.

Everybody's story is unique and in some way or another. It doesn't have to. And I tell people that's on the show all the time because I'll have calls with some people sometimes. And they're like, my story's not that crazy compared to what you have and like have had on the show. And I'm like, stop right there. Just because it's not something that like is jaw dropping doesn't mean your story is any less unique than anybody else is. Think what makes it unique is the fact that you did grow up as an only child. So you didn't have any thought in your mind that you could have these siblings.

And I think it's really, it's interesting that even if your dad, like, knew, like, yeah, I donated some sperm when I was younger. Yeah. He wouldn't, I, there was probably no way he thought there'd be 11, if not more. Yeah. Children of his out there. I mean, that's like, even for him, that's like a whole new door to open. Like, obviously at the time, like, I know that you said, they set it up what, that he,

there would be like no connection between him and the kids, which like, okay, that makes sense. But once again, it's like, he doesn't know that it's like, in his mind, he's probably like, I would have had to donate 20 times to have 20 kids out there if it even took. You know what I mean? I feel like you just don't, you don't think that. And when he agreed to do 23 and me, he was not thinking about this as an outcome at all. That's wild.

Yeah. That's so wild. Jeez. And I'm surprised. So, I mean, I know you said, like, obviously you don't know what the doctor did and all this stuff. But I mean, is that something that like, is it legal? Do you know? Like, you're probably by today standards, no.

Right. That's what I'm saying. Like, because I'm like, I'm sure if you're like, I mean, I mean, right, and nowadays it's like you have to sign documents and papers, I'm sure. Like, who knows if it was as intense back then? Probably not. But, yeah, like, I'm sure that wouldn't fly nowadays. People would be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what are you doing there with my score?

Yeah, I honestly, I don't know a lot about the procedure now, but I'm sure that there are rigorous profiles on all the donors. And even for anonymous donations, there's probably some sort of record. I would imagine just for like health purposes. It's like they doubled it, if not more. Somehow, some way. They made it work. It's crazy. Yeah.

So it has been a whirlwind for him as well. I think he's embraced the experience too. I know he's loved getting to know everybody. And that's kind of the beauty of it too, is to learn how different all of you are. And, you know, at least, like you said, none of you guys are murderers. Not yet. It could be worse. But no, I think it's incredible.

And I'm so glad, like I said, honestly, that you both wanted to come on here and share your stories. And I'm so glad that it was both of you. Because I feel like it really does. exhibit how different the stories and the mindsets were. And like I said, obviously, I'm glad that you guys both had, you know, it was a good childhood and everything was fine, but you know, you just, you don't know. So I'm so grateful that you guys both wanted to come and do this. Thanks for having us. Of course.