We're All Insane - Committed Suicide in Front of Family

Episode Date: January 1, 2024

Gillian delves into the complex emotions surrounding the loss of her brother to suicide. She bravely shares her personal journey, shedding light on the unique challenges and struggles that accompany this type of loss. By sharing these stories, we hope to break the silence surrounding suicide and encourage open dialogue about mental health. Together, we can work towards destigmatizing the conversation and fostering a more understanding and empathetic society. If you or someone you know is struggling with suicidal thoughts, please reach out to a mental health professional or a helpline in your country. Remember, you are not alone, and there is help available. Gillian's Links: https://instagram.com/gilliancripp?igshid=OGQ5ZDc2ODk2ZA%3D%3D&utm_source=qr https://www.gillianphotography.com/ If you have a unique story you'd like to share on the podcast, please fill out this form: https://forms.gle/ZiHgdoK4PLRAddiB9 or send an email to [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, it's me DeVora. I just dropped an all new bonus episode inside my new subscription channel, We're All Insane Plus. This week's bonus episode is called My Brain was slipping into my spine. Listen now by subscribing to We're All Insane Plus inside your Spotify or Apple Podcasts app or go to we're all insane.com. My name is Jillian and I grew up in Massachusetts. I am from a family of four kids and I'm the youngest by quite a bit. And my dad was a radiologist. And I'd say the town that we grew up in is a small town in Massachusetts. And there was a lot of pressure to perform and achieve and succeed. So that's kind of like the background to my brother and how he was raised. And so the one thing I wanted to talk about in terms of like when I was an adult, I was pregnant

with hoping for my second child and I was in the second trimester and I found out that he was lacking parts of his brain and he wasn't going to live and so I the ultrasound tech said it I could tell from her face that she looked worried and so she went and got the doctor and then they came back and said that and so it's 100% fatal it was something obviously I never planned on I was taking prenatals and not drinking coffee, not drinking alcohol. Yeah, doing everything. Yeah. And then it was just, there was something I couldn't control,

and I wanted the doctors to fix it, and of course they couldn't fix it. So I had the baby in me for about a week knowing that I was going to terminate the pregnancy, and that was really awful because, I mean, it was so weird because on one level I felt like a bad mom, even though I was making the right decision for, you know, most humane decision for him and for myself. But I went ahead and terminated the pregnancy and my brother is, both my brothers called me afterwards to, you know, to console me and say that it was going to be okay and I would have another baby.

But something that I know that people who have experienced that type of loss understand is that you can't just replace one baby with another. It's just, yeah. So I did get pregnant the next month or two months later. and had a healthy baby. And I had to deal with like the anxiety and the grief kind of of that at the same time as being pregnant. And it was super challenging.

And I remember when I dealt with the loss thinking, well, this is the worst thing that's ever going to happen to me. And that turned out not to be true. But it did help me learn how to cope with loss and how to just take every day. And I remember my OB called me at the time and he said, you will look at this and you're going to realize like the beauty in the world like my wife his wife had like pretty advanced ovarian cancer and so he said you're going to like go out on a walk and look at the birds and appreciate them and just look at the world around you differently and that was

true that was true you just when I was pregnant with my son after that I was like how am I going to get through this pregnancy without you know freaking out like I don't know everything's going to be okay I don't know he's going to be healthy in the end. Anything could happen. And I just thought, well, today, I know he's healthy. Right. Like, that's all I can go off of is what I know today. Right. And you can't control anything else, unfortunately, but it would just drive you crazy. Right. And when you say it helped you learn how to cope with loss, how did it do that? Like, within yourself or did you see a therapist? I saw a therapist. She was helpful. But I also just, like, looked at quotes online. Oh, I joined a community for,

online of women who'd lost terminated their pregnancies for medical reasons. And I'm still like friends online with them today. That's great. So yeah, it was super supportive and it was such a unique situation and there's so much like shame and self-blame I feel like in that group depending on what your baby's diagnosis is. Like for mine it was 100% fatal. So it was almost in a weird way easier because it wasn't like, well, what quality of life? Right, like a decision.

Exactly. Yeah. It was just, but it was something I know. never thought I would ever be a part of. And I remember Justin, my brother calling, and he was five years older. And he called and was just really sweet and comforting me. He was a doctor. So that helped, you know, just saying it was going to be fine. He was very compassionate like that. So that was my first kind of dealing with grief. So I wanted to go back to talk about Justin and what the type of person he was. And I'm just so happy to have this opportunity to talk about him because the anniversary of

his death is coming up on December 10th. And it's around that time. So I just feel like this is kind of poetic. It's like I'm able to give voice to him. And it's a testament to how close we were as siblings that, like, I feel so driven to honor his life and his legacy. Right. So we were really close growing up.

He kind of was my caretaker and I worshipped him. He was like my hero. And I always thought that I was like his sidekick, like in the family. Like I was, it was like Justin and Jillian all the time. And I was just, we go to family gatherings and just like sit in the corner and giggle and stuff. And like he, he was, we just knew we were a team like always. I think we just attached to each other and just like saw each other for who we really are. And he just loved me no matter what, like when I had like a crazy eye patch on because like,

The eye doctor made me do that stuff. Like he loved me through every face. It didn't matter. So it was like an unconditional love. And I felt that for him also. Just like it didn't matter. I was there for him like no matter what. And when I was having a hard time like I was depressed in high school, he like,

call my mom and talk to her about it. So I could go see a therapist. And just we would just laugh. Like I remember I was telling my best friend about how we got bored. I remember just being. really bored in our town and running outside in the rain when it rained and just just for fun, you know, and just like just being kids. So, and he was so smart. He was so smart. He was like and gifted and did all the advanced classes and all that. But he was also smart in a way that was

emotionally intelligent. And he would say things like, you know, doctors don't know nearly as much as they let on. And like there's so much we don't know. And, like, there's so much we don't know. and he just had a way of looking at like society in the world that was interesting and he I remember him telling me that if he was a woman he would get breast implants you know he was like why not like he was just he was funny he was just brilliant and he was so hard on himself he was a perfectionist and I think that that was like really to his detriment to be so much of a perfectionist and it didn't help to come from this culture of like pressure to achieve and go to an Ivy League school and just be the best be the best and he be perfect yeah and you know he graduated

magna cum laude and then went on to medical school and and he told me and by the way in all this he told me I don't think that I'm that smart at one point and I was like that's crazy I mean he's so smart. I couldn't do what he did. Like, he's so smart. And the fact that he didn't perceive himself as that smart, it just shows kind of like how off his self-esteem was compared with like his qualities in the world. So he, um, I remember him, he told me that he was suicidal once in high school, when he was in high school. And he hadn't gotten into Harvard. And so he felt like he had failed. even though he got into another ivy school went there like he didn't get into that school and i think

he felt so much pressure to to be perfect and to get into the vet school and so he was i guess his not that his i don't want to say his priorities were off but i mean kind of you know yeah uh it was just i felt so sorry for him i knew that there was part of him that i could never reach i knew that there was like a melancholy and a sadness that was just away from me and that was his own. And I knew that in order to have like this close relationship with him, I needed to just let him be, like let that be, not push him. That's how I felt anything. I don't want to push him.

I just like was like, I knew he had that sadness. He was, he was gay and it was like the 90s. And I feel like back then it was not the way it is now in terms of like acceptance. Yeah. and even just being out there and having politicians that are gay and just being more accepted. So I think, and I remember when he was about 10, him coming home and falling on the stairs because some kid had used a gay slur on him and was bullying him. And I remember him crying and crying and it makes me so sad that I think we think about.

But it's just my mom comforted him and like, it just, it just, it just, just socks that he had to deal with that, you know? Yeah. I don't think that helped. And I know that, like, suicide rates amongst gay people is much higher. And I'm sure that that's part of why is the homophobia, you know, in our society. But he came out to me when he was about 19, I think I was 14. And he came out to me first.

And I remember him telling me, like, I have someone to tell you. And it's a big deal. And so I was like thinking, I hope he doesn't have cancer, you know? So, and he was like, I'm gay. I was like, oh, thank God. Yeah. Like, I'm so happy. Like, I was so afraid of some terminal illness.

And so, and then he was like, yeah, my friends at college were like, why haven't you told Jillian? Like, of course she's totally fine. Like, and we were so close. And then I remember him, he told my sister and then he told my brother and then he was going to tell my parents. And I was the only one at home. So I remember he was like, okay, I'm going to go do it. And he went downstairs.

tell them. And he told them and I think that they were just kind of quiet because I don't think they were expecting it. And I think they told him that they loved him. My mom, I believe. I don't know, but I wasn't there. So then he came up and got me. We went to like Denny's to like decompress the whole thing and like talk about it all. Yeah. Yeah. And so and so then he was out at that point and dating and everything. He ended up getting in a toxic relationship. And, And it was very detrimental to his mental health. And it's a good example of just like ending up in a narcissistic relationship. Yeah.

So that he, so that contributed, I'm sure, to his suicide eventually. So I knew that he lived, I lived in Florida and he moved to back to Florida. He had lived there for a little while and did his residency in Miami. And he. worked there for many years. We saw each other sometimes. I had a baby and he had a, he adopted a son about the same time. And so they were close in age and we were raising them as together as we could kind of. He would come up and visit. I was about four hours away. So he'd come up and visit and particularly towards the end when he was trying to leave his relationship. He

would come visit me a lot and then I would go he was going through this divorce and I would go try to help him and like in support in court and testified on his behalf and stuff like that so he the last year or two of his life he was stressed and his I think he felt overwhelmed like everything was kind of falling apart like I think he didn't feel like he was doing a great job as a doctor I think he didn't feel like he was doing great job as, you know, in a relationship or as even as even a father. This is just my speculation. And so he, I think it was just this overwhelming sense that he was kind of a burden to everyone, which was just his perception. And, and he didn't ever say he felt like a burden, but he, oh, he had had previous attempts. I learned that when we were in one of the court hearings,

that he'd thrown himself off of a balcony and broken ribs onto a glass table and he'd broken ribs. And that was like probably 10 years before he ended up dying. But it's the key part to the story because that him throwing himself off of things was like clearly his method of doing it. And he the last couple years I saw him, we were closer because he was relying on me for support and other. people too. But he started looking worse. Like he wasn't taking care of himself as much and like kind of aging quickly, which was strange. And he'd always been like really fit and really kind of like, I don't know, like way neater of a person than I am. Like he was like way more of a neat freak and he ended up getting like really messy and just stuff that was odd. I know he started watching

the good place. I don't know if you know that show with like Kristen Bell. Yeah, it's a few years old. But he was watching it, and it's about life and death a lot. And he was watching it like marathons of it towards the end. So I'm wondering now, like in retrospect, if he was just preparing himself to die, you know, because he was clearly, that was on death was on his mind a lot and like what happens. And I know that he was on some type of like pills of some sort. I'm not sure what they were.

He was acting different. One time I met up with him in Florida for Labor Day weekend, and we went to a hotel in Sarasota with our kids. And he started, we were at a toy shop with the boys, and he started sweating like profusely. And I was like, Justin, are you okay? Like, why are you sweating? It's not, you know, hot. Like, and he was like, oh, no, I don't feel good.

I don't feel good. And then he just went back to, I was like, okay, well, why don't you just go back to the hotel and I'll watch your son like at the toy shop. So he went back to the hotel. And I remember being afraid that he wasn't going to make it because he seemed off, you know? Like I wanted him to make it back to the hotel. And so there was some level of concern, I guess. And it was really hard, I'll say, as like someone he was leaning on to, first of all, to watch kind of like him unravel like he did the last couple years.

And also to try to give support and like almost to save someone who you can't save people. No. You know. But I was going to try. And of course, afterwards, you think, like, what could I have done differently? And he did try calling me the day that he died. And I didn't pick up. And I didn't pick up because I was at work.

And I had just started back at work, like, full time a couple months before that. And I was like, no, like, I'm at work. And, like, I'll call him after work, you know? And I did. but it was too late. Like, and so I've tried not to beat myself up over not picking up. But it was the last time I could have ever talked to him. But of course, you don't know that.

So let me think. So the last year of his life when he was unraveling and like he was stressed involved in this messy divorce, I think it was just like the layers of, of just, I don't know, dysfunction or stress to like pile on to each other. And I know he had mindfulness cards, and I tried to get him to watch, like, YouTubers that, like, are helpful and about, like, you know, just being, grounding yourself and all of that.

And he went to therapy for a little bit, but I think he stopped. And so I'm going to talk about the night he died, because that's kind of, like, everything after that is, like, a lot, too. So he, I got the, I was just, it was, like, a normal, I thought it was a normal day. and he was planning on coming for Christmas because he used to come to my house for Christmas every year. And it was December 10th, and so Christmas was a couple weeks away. And he, my dad had texted me, I think the night before saying,

can you call Justin? He's having a bad day. So I tried calling him multiple times. And I texted him and told him he was welcome to come to my house for the weekend if he wants or I would go to Miami if he wanted for the weekend. Like either is fine. Didn't get a response back. he um i guess according to my parents they'd flown down to visit him to you know make try to help him

because they were worried and he was on he was not coherent i believe that day according to them but anyway um oh and the other thing too my electricity in the room that he was going to stay in was out so i worked at a solar company and there was an electrician on staff so i asked asked him to come fix the electricity because my brother was coming for Christmas. And his name was Travis. And so he agreed to do that. So I was getting ready for Justin to come. And then I get a call from my oldest brother that night that said, it was late at night.

So that was kind of odd. Usually he wouldn't call late. And he said, I think he said there's been, oh, it's Jillian, I have some really bad news. so I was bracing myself I thought it was my parents to be honest like that would make more sense in terms of like age and he said uh justin committed suicide and then he said um justin committed suicide and he said and I just wanted to know more detail I was thinking in my mind at the time I was like okay well I hope it just wasn't in front of his son I hope he did it privately I hope it wasn't like in front of like nothing was traumatic for my parents finding him or anything like that, you know, because he just wanted them to, like, minimize the damage.

And unfortunately, Alan told me how it happened, which was that he threw himself off of his apartment building, is a high rise in Miami, off of the balcony and, like, felt his death while my dad grabbed his ankle and tried to hold on and couldn't hold on. And my mom and his son were in the apartment. So he did end up like committing suicide in front of my parents. And that was just something that I didn't. And I can tell you what my reaction was. I said, I'm sick of this fucking family, fucking up my life. And I hung up the phone. And that's because I wanted, I was like, I have this life here in Florida that like, I'm working for the solar company. have my kids and, you know, do pole fitness or whatever and, like, doing my little thing.

And, like, then I was like, oh, like, this is huge. I knew that this was going to change the trajectory of, like, everything. So sleep is the first thing to go when you, like, have trauma, at least for me. So sleep went immediately. I knew I wasn't going to really be able to sleep. And I went outside my house. And I didn't know what to do. I just went.

There's like this little triangle in front of my house. So just kind of walked around it. And it was so weird because I was hit with shock and grief, but I was also hit with this overwhelming sense of, like, freedom, like freedom from expectations. Like, Justin had just done the most antisocial thing that anyone can do, you know, besides, like, murdering someone. But he'd just done this thing that was, like, so against how we were raised

because it was so, like, horrible and just sad. And then I was like, oh, the pressure is off like, like Justin. I don't know. It's so weird. No, I think it makes sense. Does it? Because you probably without even knowing it, but you probably had this sense of, like you probably felt like you always had to be there to try to like you said, like fix him.

Yeah. And help him. Yes. So, and I don't think that there's, I don't think that that's a bad thing or a wrong thing to say that you felt that sense of freedom. Because I think in the back of your mind, you probably always felt like you have to hold him together in some way or another. Try to. Yeah. Yeah.

Like I wasn't the only one trying to do that. Yeah. You know, my mom, he would talk to my mom on the phone every day. And it's a lot. I think knowing that someone is in a dark place and that you can't fix it is hard. That's exactly right. Yeah. It takes a lot out of you.

Yeah. It does. And it didn't even realize it because I think it had always been that way. Yeah. So you don't even have really perspective on it. Right. Yeah. But I mean, I thought of it. Just, I loved him so much. So like anything felt like a blessing with him to me. So it wasn't a burden. Like I'd just seen him for Thanksgiving. I had just seen him. And right before that, we'd gone to Universal together, which was really fun. But also he was off then. I knew he was off when at Universal. And when you say that your parents said he wasn't coherent. Yeah. Like, do you think that was because of pills?

Yeah. Something. Something. And I don't know specifically what. Okay. But I think he was like, my dad's coping mechanism during that time, like when he died, was to take notes all the time, which is kind of like a journaling. Yeah. But my dad would never call it that in a million years. But that I think that was his, it was a healthy coping mechanism, which was to write, like, so, you know, like that he was disheveled and then this happened and then this happened.

And then, you know, just the days afterward were such a blur of having to kind of keeping everything together. Yeah. And just sort through all of his. I don't know, like his life and kind of close it out in a weird way, like his apartment and just everything. And so, and his son, of course. But like, so they, I feel like they, my dad was just writing like everything that had to be done all the time. And so the night after, oh, and my friends came over. I want to say that too. That night when he died, I texted two of my friends who live nearby and said, I just found out Justin committed suicide. And they were just like, oh my God,

oh my God, like, what do you need? And I said, I don't know what I need because I didn't know what I needed. And then they just came over, which was so sweet. And they took me out. And like, I just, my boys were sleeping. So I didn't want my boys to find out until the next day, until I could process it a little bit and how to tell them. Not that that gives me a lot of time to process, but a little. bit. And this is the part that I did that like, I'm just like, why did I do this? But I went to work the next day. Like, I worked. Now, why did I work? Because like this, I was like, what a psychopath? Why was I working? And it was because, like, I could have gone immediately to Miami, but I didn't. Because I, I just wanted one more day to say goodbye to my life. Like,

I wanted one day to be like, this is my old life that I'm saying goodbye to and I'm entering into this new one where Justin committed to his life. Like, I knew that. So that's what I did. But of course, I couldn't make it through the whole day, like normal. I just experienced something insane. So I was at the solar company, and this one of my coworkers said, are you okay? Like your eyes look red.

And I was like, my brother died yesterday, and then I crying. And then I got it together again and wasn't crying. And then Travis, the guy who's going to fix the electricity, came over, and he was like, hey, when do you want me to come this weekend? to work on the electricity. And then I go, he's not coming anymore. And I cried. And I was like, oh my gosh.

That's so like, of course, like it was too much to try, you know, to work. But then I went to Miami. And I had to tell everyone at my job what happened. And I just had I didn't been there that long. So I didn't feel really comfortable being like, hi. Like my brother just committed suicide. But it is what it is. So I went to Miami and I was just flying back and forth there a lot.

I remember seeing my parents in his apartment for the first time, seeing his partner at the time because he had a new partner who I'm still friends with. And I'm going to see next weekend, actually. And just my cousin was there and my aunt had flown down. And so we just all hugged and it's just in shock. And then the next day, I think, or the day after my bestie, my rider does, Bestie, who's here, came down and reminded us to eat meals. You know, hey, it's time for lunch, everyone.

Come on, because we're all in this fog. And also my sister came down, and I just remember hugging my sister for their first time, and it was just like this fierce hug. Like, it was just like, this is us now, you know? I mean, and my other brother, but it's crazy, you know? You just, it's just an intensity. And this remains today with my family where we treat each other now with like an appreciation and a gentleness that was not there before. It's like a delicacy, you know, we're a lot more delicate with each other than we were before, which I guess is like a little bit of a silver lining.

Then after he died, oh, it was about to be Christmas. So we still did it with Christmas, which was two weeks later. And his son too, because we knew we probably wouldn't get to see his son, much longer because of his messy divorce situation. I'm Anna Garcia, host of True Crime News, the podcast. Every week we bring you in-depth coverage on cases making headlines, as well as those that go under the radar. Tune in for murders that defy explanation, mystery seeking exploration, and shocking secrets

that will leave you breathless. Each week, we honor the victims by going beyond the salacious in our search for justice. Crime never stops, and neither do we. Listen to True Crime News available now. wherever you get your podcast. And how old was his son? His son was 11. Okay.

I went to his 11th birthday. But anyway, where was I? So, oh, Christmas. So I had, we're decorating for Justin to come in my house. But I couldn't, now I can't have Christmas just without Justin there. Like, that's crazy. So what, like, what to do? My brother and sister were up and back up in Massachusetts at that point.

they live and my parents were in Miami so I was like not wanting them to spend Christmas alone with Justin's son right after their son had just committed suicide in front of them so I was like I need to be there for them so I and I was still trying to work and everything so I went to cracker barrel and went and bought like a bunch of gifts from that store and packed him in a suitcase and took them to Miami and we were staying at like a Marriott there and asked the staff to put up the Christmas presents for them. So they did that. I have pictures, you know, from that time where they're sitting under the tree at the Marriott, like opening gifts because their uncle had just committed suicide two weeks before. And it was just crazy. And I was telling my friend who's a

therapist about it. And she said, you know what? One day they'll realize that you still had Christmas for them, which is really sweet. Because it's true. Like, it was like, how do you still, like in a time of crisis like that? Like, how do you keep it together? Like how do you celebrate something? Yeah, anything. And with my parents, too, they were there and we all had like Christmas lunch there. It was so surreal. Then the next thing after that was planning his service. And so I said to the rest of my immediate family, like, I want to plan his service because I feel like this is something I can do for him because I knew he wouldn't want like a Catholic service, which is how we were raised. Like, you know, my mom's very Catholic. But, um, so I decided to,

we had at an April's hospital where he worked sometimes. And I decided to have it, like, be about meditation and mindfulness and have like a Tibetan bowl like, um, there and play Anya and just, um, have everyone that, like, loved him come. And his person he was divorcing, the man he was divorcing, actually cremated him and kept the ashes. So we don't have a grave or his body. And my parents never got his body or anything. And so we did the service. And we each spoke about him.

And actually what I said then is relevant now because what I said then is, this is not my end and I'm not going to hold my head underwater. I'm going to live, but I'm going to live for us. And so that's what I'm doing even by doing this podcast is I'm living for him and me. Yeah. And giving him a voice where he can't. And after that we, oh, and something about my friends too, who just, I would not have gotten through all this, if not for my friends. And, you know, someone that I didn't even invite, like, not on purpose, but just like, had me. mentioned it to her was like, can I come? Like, I want to come to the service. Like, and she came. She drove there and everything. And it's just like people who

showed up at that time like meant so much. And I wasn't really able to articulate it to them at the time because I was just dealing in shock. But they, it, people who sent notes to me afterwards and said, like one of his good friends from childhood sent me this note. Anne is her name. And she said, you know, your home was a respite for Justin. Whenever he talked about it, he talked about it so fondly at the end. And I never said anything to her. Like, thank you. I never responded. And like, I'm saying thank you. Because like that meant a lot. And like, I was just in this weird numb state or maybe I just don't like writing thank you notes to people. But that's my excuse. But it was, Ann did that. And then also a couple like some relatives and friends of his were like,

you know, there was not a conversation with him where your name wouldn't come up. He just loved you so much. And something else someone said was like, but you guys were so close. Like as if like I would have an explanation for then why he. I was like, yeah, we were. I don't know. Like I didn't throw myself off the building. He did.

So he, it was just nice to know that like that was people understood that and that just that I was a comfort to him at the end. Even though I couldn't save him. Yeah. So after the service, that's the hard part, I think, in my opinion. Like when, how do you like, after all the hubbub and everything, like planning it is gone. And you're just left with your grief. And other people kind of move on on some level. Like, how do you cope?

Right. And then COVID happened. So that was December 10th, 2019. And COVID was, you know, like February, March of that year. and it was just like COVID almost like helped delay my grief because it was like we're in survival mode now like remember we thought it was like going to be a plague or something at first and I was like how are my kids going to survive I like I started having them start watching Survivor so they've learned how to make fires and stuff because I was like who knows yeah so yeah so COVID kind of took over and it was like

I don't know it's just everything was so immediate so it was like I couldn't really process the justice situation and then I started going to therapy and um that was good that was really good that's that's like what started my journey of like healing was like therapy oh pole fitness too i have to keep saying that because and i told them by the way that i was going to mention it because like just the getting myself my body being strong and then being only around women who like support each other no matter what was like just really healthy and good for me yeah um and just had a pole in my house and i like learned how to invert, which is like putting your like body over you. And so you're like upside down.

And that was, you know, just stuff like that, like just help. I know it's like little things, but. Yeah, that's important. It is important. And going on walks with my kids to the gas station like by the house. Like that was huge. Just like and just trying to talk to them. And oh, that's another thing.

My kids, my kids like just having to get up every morning and like function and function. for them and wanting, wanting their lives to not be, like, screwed up from trauma. That's huge. And I don't know what state I would be in if I didn't have them. So my other brother, okay, so there's four of us. My other brother, he's 10 years older than me. And I get a call from my sister late at night. Once again, it's like a late night phone call.

So now I'm really, like, paranoid about late night phone calls because I'm like, okay, what am I going to find out? And it was my sister telling me that Alan, our brother, was in the emergency room, and he'd had a brain aneurysm. And they didn't know if he was going to make it through the night. And he ended up being in a medical coma. I think it was the next morning they put him a medical coma. They had to do surgery on his brain in order to put a stent in his brain.

And he happened to be, he was very lucky. He was at his apartment with his girlfriend. and he all of a sudden had like the worst headache of his life according to him and apparently she was saying she told me later she was like and he was throwing up everywhere and he goes well I was dying so that's why so and so she called she didn't know who to call she said should I call your parents do I call your daughter like who am I supposed to call and he was like 911 was what he could say and so she called 911 and he was right by UMass medical center which is a really good facility so that saved his life, I think. And he went there. He happened to a neurosurgeon on staff that

knew how to do that, put this in and everything. And this is my understanding of it, by the way. So it's not like a medical opinion. Like, you know, my dad's a doctor. So he'd probably be like, well, actually, it's this. So I don't know. This is just what I know. And I was in Florida. So I flew up the next day. And it was just crazy because it's like, how can we be going through this? is how it felt. Like, here we go again, but now Alan? Like, what? Like, and then we, I was with my parents going to drive out to the hospital to see them and my dad had to bring the paperwork for the power of attorney and the health care proxy, which may or may not be the same thing. I'm not totally sure. But basically, my brother was signing his rights over his body and his financials

over to my dad. And he was on, when I saw him, he was in the neuro ICU. And he had tubes like in his, like a drain in his skull to make sure that there wasn't too much fluid. And like too much pressure, I think. And just watching my dad sign those, you know, or bring them over to Alan to sign and watching Alan sign them was just awful. I was just like, how can this be happening?

It was like a shock. And it's like that, and this happened to me with the baby too when I found out that he had the fatal diagnosis. It was like, it was like you start, at least for me, it's like you start watching a movie of your life. It's like it doesn't feel like you almost like leave your body a little bit. And you're like, oh, I'm just watching this happen to me. It's like dissociating a little bit as a coping mechanism, I think.

So and also I just want to say like I don't understand why Alan was considered like coherent enough to sign that because he was on a bunch of oxy like in the neuro-icu. He had just had an aneurysm and like he's signing away with his papers and I'm like, this is weird. But anyway, he, my dad made the very smart medical decision for him where they were deciding, I think that night, the night of the aneurysm what to do. And the surgeon had said, well, I could go in this way and like there's a very good chance he'll live.

But the aneurysm was close to the speech center. of his brain so he'll likely never speak again. And I guess one of his kids or someone in the room or something was like, oh, that might, like maybe we should do that because like obviously they want him to live. And my dad was like, no, we're going to try another way. And that end up being good because Alan is now fully recovered. Amazing. It is amazing. And I went during that time, I went to, we all vacation in Cape Cod every year, like the family has a reunion there. And I was, I went and got a massage when I was at kids. Cape Cod. And the woman said to me, I told her just about the whole thing, Justin and Allen.

And she said, you know, your brother, Justin, won't let anything happen to your other brother. Like, he's not going to, you know, he's going to be, he's watching over him. He'll be okay. And that was like really reassuring. And I just wonder if that really like kind of did happen in a way. Because not many people recover like he did from that. Like usually there's some type of major impairment or they die. And he fought through it. And I remember going to Allen and seeing him, you know, when he's in the neuro ICU with the drain coming out.

And he said to me, for the first thing he did was apologized. He said, I'm so sorry. Like, I'm so sorry. And I was like, it's okay. You didn't choose this. Like, you don't have to apologize. But he was sorry because he knew how much our family had just been through and was like,

I don't want to be putting everyone through trauma and stress again. That's like, you know, but, and then he looked at, the other thing I remember strongly is that he looked at me and he was like, I'm going to make it through this. And like the intensity in his eyes at that time, he was just like, this isn't going to be the end. Like, I'm going to survive this. And like, I really admire him for that because like, that's really badass that he

just like recovered from a brain an heurism, you know? I was thinking I was like, he could be a guest on this. and be like, my one brother commits suicide, and then I've recovered from brain hair and yours. Because that's like crazy. And like, it's just, and he's fine. He's teaching now. He's teaching.

He has a girlfriend. He's got his kids. He's like totally fine. They came and visited me in Florida. I introduced her to pull fitness too because I drag everyone to it. But yeah. So, I mean, that's kind of a beautiful thing. And then, actually, when he and his girlfriend came down to visit in Florida,

I had decided to adopt some kittens. And this is because a friend of mine, I think it was May like 22, I believe, her daughter, who is 13, committed suicide. And I knew that I could be a resource for her because of what I'd been through because not very many people are part of this club. And so I was like, okay, I can turn my pain into like at least being able to help someone going through something that I can't even fathom. Like, I can't fathom that like what she is dealing with and dealt with. Like it's just insane.

So she said that her daughter, who is also like Justin, by the way, like super, super smart, super smart and artistic. And Justin was always very artistic growing up. And then he chose like a career path that didn't necessarily like lend itself to art. But, and this little girl was also very artistic, very smart, very sensitive. And I think the world was too harsh for her also. I'm not sure. But she had two kittens. And her mom mentioned it to me that she had two kittens that she was looking to adopt out now.

And I said, I'll take your kittens. So that's how I got, Oso and Camilo. Yeah. So, and now my boys have kittens and like my middle son loves them. And like, it's like at least that's something. I wouldn't have gotten the kittens otherwise, you know. And it brings joy from a dark, sad situation. Yes. Yeah. One of the cats is like really scared of everything. So I always think like maybe he has PTSD. I like so he'll analyze the cats. I'm like maybe he has PTSD from like when she died. I don't know. But they're sweet. And, you know, I like that it's two of them. Just like. Like it was like my brother and this little girl, you know. And so, so yeah, Alan recovered from his aneurysm. And I have now since then been diagnosed with therapy. And then also just like through my regular doctor with like complex PTSD.

So like I knew when I found out about Alan's aneurysm like, okay, sleep one again. Okay, I'm not going to sleep. Like I just know now when like things come up that I'm just not going to, you know, sleeping and eating get kind of fall by the wayside and or I just have to pay a lot of attention to if I've had a meal or not and just try to like have one yeah yeah just the basics or like showering and all that just basic self-care and so with the complex PTSD how that's affected me is like I um I have nightmares like bad nightmares sometimes I um really startle at like loud noises Like I know most people do, but it's like I get freaked out.

And like, I went to the movies and saw Shazam with my boys. And there was a scene at the beginning where someone walks off of a roof and commit suicide. And I was triggered for like three days after that. Like I could not handle it. And I was like, I was like, I realized what was happening. And I like held my boys close to me. Like they were going to be affected in that same way. And they're not to me who was like, I just, it was like three.

I even had to tell my boss at work like. hey like I'm just a little off like just so you know so that type of stuff like getting triggered like that is just you never know where it's going to come from right but it's getting better because I'm in therapy and I have a therapist that specializes in trauma so that's been really huge like I would just recommend to anyone going through anything close to like what I've been through or dealing with grief or loss of anyone like just therapy I know it's like so cliche I am basic, but it's just like, it's so helps. And it helps with your self-awareness, too. Because the first thing is like recognizing when you're triggered and when like, okay, I'm not

myself right now. I'm disregulated. And like, okay, how do you get regulated again? You can, you know, do deep breathing or go on a walk or just there's a variety of things to try to calm yourself or talk to a friend. That's been my other thing is I have a friend that I go every week with to coffee and we've done it for, since she was having a bad time with her boyfriend, like, six years ago or something. We've done it every week. And like, she just texted me this morning. She was like, love you. It's going to go great. Yeah. So people like that, things like that, just like you can count on no matter what has been huge. Yes. And I think just female friendship, even when I was a child, like I had close female friends. And they have gotten me through like so

much. It's it's just, I can't say enough about it. You know, I think there's not enough kind of like out there about how important it is. for us to have that. Like a support system. Yeah, support system, which I definitely feel like I have now. Oh, and so in terms of my own therapy, one of my therapists said to me after it dealt with the suicide and the aneurysm was like, you know, art is going to, like, he did this analysis with me and like basically it was like, you're an adventure, which is true.

That's why I'm here. And a helper and an artist. And he said, art will help you through this. and he was right. And so I thought of it as my dancing because I was like, oh, well, I love dancing. So that's my art. But I started working for a photographer as an assistant.

And I loved it. I just loved it. Like, I was fascinated by, like, everything he was doing. He was a wedding photographer in South Tampa. And, like, so I was just fascinated by it. But, like, I didn't really like him so much. Like, he was kind of, he was, like, really harsh. He wasn't great with, like, people, but he was very, like, his actual product I admired and his

job I admired. And then I realized that I was like, oh, but I don't really like him. He's, like, kind of derogatory towards women and, like, just kind of make gross comments about women and stuff. And I was just, and other races and stuff. And I was just like, ew, like, I don't really like this person. So I was like, but wait, I was like, and he kept telling me he would train me. And then he kind of, like, never prioritized that.

So I was like, wait, I'm going to have to take this. to my own hands. Like, I'm going to have to train myself. So I actually hired a retired advertising photographer to train me. So he's trained me and I just have done photography. I love it. And I was telling, this podcast actually has to do with it because I went to my favorite neighborhood coffee shop and I said to the guy, the guy, the guy was asking me like, what's up? I was like, I'm going to be on a podcast. And he was like, why? And I was like, So I had to tell him why. So the story is like all this personal stuff about my life.

And I always liked to this guy who was like the nice coffee shop guy, but he didn't know anything about my personal life. Well, I told him the whole story of my brothers. And he was like, oh, well, do you want, you know, to have a show here? Because they have art on their walls there. And I was like, yes. So like in December, they're going to have my work. And then I was getting my hair done and I'm friends with my hairdresser.

And she goes, what she says? She was like, oh, you should have an opening. like an opening party. I was like, I should. So the opening party is happening on Saturday. That's so exciting. This Saturday. Yeah, my parents are flying down for it.

And my sister's flying down for it to support me. And I have my friends coming out and everything. There's going to be wine and appetizers. And I'm going to have all my artwork up. That's awesome. It's so cool. Okay. And this is how Jenny comes into it because Jenny was my brother, Justin's friend.

And she would help watch his son while he was. working in the hospital because she worked there too and she um is having a baby and she's naming the baby Justin. Yeah. And her um her baby shower happens to be the day after my opening so my parents are going to be down here so we can all go. Yeah. Like isn't that crazy? That's incredible. Like when the universe is like comes to like it all lines. It's insane. And like that was like when I realized that I was just like oh I felt like I've been losing for so long. I just felt like, Like, this is hard. Like, no one told me life was going to be this hard.

Like, not that, I mean, life is hard for everyone. But, like, I was just like, like, when is this going to end? I think, too, when you have a lot of negatives back to back. Yes. When there's finally so many positives that happen back to back, you're like, finally. Yes. The light at the end of the tunnel, you know? I do have a question, though, if you're comfortable answering.

So your brother's son, how did he do with everything? We, unfortunately, his, I don't know. Okay. Because that was the last that we were able to see him. His current, his other parent has like kind of cut off contact. Wow. So I kind of knew that was going to happen just based off of like previous relationship. Yeah.

So I, like, I remember I was putting all of our contacts into his phone and stuff right before. it was like that Christmas I was telling you about and before we said goodbye and it was just there was nothing just knowing that there was another loss I guess but and hopefully one day yes I definitely think that when the time comes that will come full circle too I hope so I do I do I think so I don't think that that's the end you know no yeah and I think too a way to look at it and have hope is like you were so close with your brother. Yeah. And that is a child that he raised or lost to raise.

So you can only hope and pray that he has some of your brothers traits. My nephew said that actually. He said he had, you know, 10, 11 years of Justin. Like, let's not forget that. Right. And that's true. And I think sometimes when you're young and you do have the influence of, you know, only one person or it can be confusing.

So I think that it sometimes it takes until. you're a little bit older and wiser and more life has happened that you start to seek out, you know, family and other people, you know, I think that that will happen. I think it'll happen too, particularly like, because, you know, my son is the same age as him and stuff like that. Okay. So, yeah. Yeah.

And that was part of why I put my kids in therapy, well, for all of these reasons, but also because they have to be confused. Okay. So our uncle and cousin was in our lives and, you know, pretty frequently and then all of a sudden, and I think that that's so important. because, you know, I, from like me losing a parent at a young age, I feel like if I would have had therapy right after that, things could have gone differently. Really?

Yeah. And I'm, I'd like to say I'm fine now. But there's definitely, I definitely think that it's very important to sort through. That's part of why you're doing what you're doing, don't you think? I don't know. Oh, I'm sure. Like, okay, was it your mom or your dad? My dad.

Was your dad. Yeah. I can't imagine what impact that would have. How old were you? I was 12, I think. 12 maybe. Yeah. That's so hard.

But I think that I never really coped or dealt with it. I think that it happened. I cried. And then I was young. So I think I just kind of like. When you don't know. Right. I brushed it in the rug.

I moved on. And then my grandfather passed away shortly after. Oh, geez. You hear it. You deal with it in that moment. And then I think I never really fully. Dealt with it. Yeah.

Yeah. And I think that that's just been something that I, a lot of things I do in the ways that I am today. Like I feel like I'm I can be such a loving person, but then sometimes when it comes to family, I notice that I, not intentionally, but I kind of distanced myself. And I think it's that fear of like, I already know what it feels like to lose someone close. And I don't want to be that close. Yes.

You know, and I think that's something I've realized. It's like an avoidant attachment style. And I've noticed that as I've gotten older. It's really interesting to me and it's sad. And it's funny because when you said about the late night phone calls, you know, when I, I don't think that's something that ever goes away, you know? and I think when I get weird phone calls at certain time, or when my mom calls me early.

Someone unusual. Yeah. Early in the morning. Yeah. I'm just like, it's, it gives you that kind of eerie, like is everything okay feeling? Yeah, like that tension. Yeah.

I think if somebody hasn't really experienced or felt that loss, that's not really a thought that would have been. That wouldn't be the first thought. Which is nice. Yeah. For them. Yeah. Yeah.

I even know it with my parents. I can tell with my parents when I call them and like they're not expecting it or something that they're just like, hi. Like, is everything okay? You know? And it's like, I'm, oftentimes I'm like I'm fine everything's fine right you know and I think too when it comes to

to grief and loss and all that stuff it's it does become that kind of not a burden but like you're like again you know what I mean it's it's that is such a good description of it that's what it starts like oh come on right like you don't even want to hear it it's like you don't know can't hurt you so just don't even tell me yeah that's just what I think it it becomes because you know what that feels like and it's just such a shitty painful thing and it does change your life It changes everything. It does. Yes.

And even if your routine doesn't change, mentally everything changes. Yes. Yes. At least like I was able to, upon hearing about Justin's death, like we're like, okay, everything is going to change now. I was just trying to like kind of grasp, okay, everything is different. The world is shifted. But it seems like to you're such a self-aware person.

I try. Like you really, I feel like I don't know how else you could have gone about handling that situation in any other way for yourself and for your children. I think you did all the, yeah. You took all the steps that you could have. you could, though. I did. You know?

Gosh, it was hard. It's like now I look back because I'm starting to, like I said, like I feel like I'm starting to win again, you know? And I look back and I'm like, and people say to me like, oh, what you're doing is like inspiring or I can't even believe it how far you've come in such a short period of time. And it's like I can't even look at it. Like even I can't even kind of look at what I've been through.

I can't even really look at like the aneurism on top of the suicide because like I'll get overwhelmed like sometimes. You know when you look at it and you're like, holy shit. That's a lot. Whereas like if I just keep going, like you're talking about like. Yep. Like don't even think about it. Yeah.

Just keep going. It's easier. It's easier. It's easier. It's easier. It's easier. But not probably in the long run. No, probably not.

It's not the best thing for you. Like maybe both of us had cried for two months in our beds. We would have like. Exactly. No, exactly. Because sometimes too, I notice when I'm crying about something else, I feel like I'm crying about everything at once. You are.

Yes. But that happens to me. But that's what it feels like. But I was going to say too that I feel like something that you might not even realize is by you sharing this story. Not only is it a voice for yourself and your experience and your brother, but also there's so many people that have experienced, you know, suicide from loved ones, whether it was a partner or a child or a parent. And I feel like that, that's something that it's hard to find someone else that can relate to that and feel that. So I think, and I always say it's amazing,

one of the things that's so amazing about social media, which I'm not a huge fan, surprisingly. I think it's like a love-hate relationship. It is. It is. But I think that like imagine like years ago, like back in the day, like when we were all young, I mean, I know I'm still young, but like when everybody was younger and dealing with things, like how kids can have this now, like these platforms where if you look something up, you can actually sit and listen to someone else's experience.

Like I feel like that wasn't really. I mean, I remember. Yeah. It wasn't. And I remember too, like when I was young and I mean, this is small, but like dealing with breakups and I was Googling things. Oh, right. Yeah.

But it's like Google is just, it's all over the place. But to be able to have this kind of show to look through and see like, wow, that's somebody that I experienced me like that. Like they can relate. And it's like almost talking to a friend or hearing somebody else that's been through something similar. So that's something too that I always tell my guests that come on, I'm like, when you're sharing these stories, there are definitely people out there.

And I've realized even more so recently, so many people will tell me that. they relate with so many of the stories, even if it isn't the exact same thing. Right. But it's like something that you've felt. Yeah. They might have felt, even if it's a completely different circumstance. So I just think that that can really help people not feel alone. Yes.

And it's right. You know, I think that there's times too that if you're just, there could be people just listening and then they could hear your story and be like, wow, like I get that. I felt that. You know what I mean? It feels good not to feel alone. And I think we live in a world where it's very easy to feel like. like you're the only one.

Like isolated. Yeah, feeling a certain way. But in reality, I think we all feel shitty one way or another at some point. We all feel like shitty. We all feel like shame. We all feel like pain and loneliness. Beat ourselves up. All of it.

Yeah. Like I'm not good enough or whatever it is. And I certainly had like throughout the last four years, moments of like despair and moments of like worthlessness and like what is the point of anything type stuff. But I was just able to get out of it. Like I'd say the main thing is just like to keep. keep going. Just keep going. Yeah. Like you just keep going. And like when I wouldn't feel like it,

I would still do the things like eat healthy. Like I've actually, oh, that's another. The things you can control. The things you can control. Yeah. And like exercise or going to walk or whatever it is. Like, or just the things that even if you don't feel like doing them, if you know that like, okay, if I do these things, I'll probably feel better. And it is true. Like it sounds funny, but like have the time I don't want to do the good things. Right. Me too. And I'm like, all right, I feel accomplished. You know what I mean? But no, that's important.

Particularly like exercise. Yep. You know, just physiologically, it's really good for you. Yeah. And I want to say, too, just kind of going back, because I know that you had said if, you know, when your brother had called you the day that he committed suicide. And I just want to say that because I know that that I feel like as humans, that's something we do is we look at what can we have done.

Yeah. And we beat ourselves up. But I feel like, too, you guys obviously had a very close relationship. And I think that what he chose to do, you can't take it personally or put it on your plate. No, it was about him. It was. And I think that he was just probably, he was dealing with his own battles. You know what I mean?

Yeah, obviously. And I feel like too, it's so easy for us to beat ourselves up. But he loved you so much. I know. You know, and you guys, no matter what he was going through, you know, you got, don't ever forget the relationship you guys had. Like don't let anything. Diminish it?

Yes. No. Like it's a horrible tragedy. Yeah. You know? And it's heartbreaking. But that doesn't change anything else. Right.

It doesn't. Right. Or even after. Because now it's like you, I feel like you're shedding this beautiful light in his memory and on his name and that's all you can do. And it's like that was only, that was just one dark part of his story. That's true. You know what I mean?

You really get it because it was just. And like it's. easy, I think, for everyone who knew him to focus on the tragedy aspect of... Or like he did that. Now he's just gone. But it doesn't have to be that way. No, you're 100%. Right.

Yeah. And it's like that's what the more that I focus on when... And my mom has said this too. Like when he was alive and just the good parts about like him being alive and being with him and what that was like, like that's better for all of us, I feel like. But it's hard to do. Also look at what it's done now for your family. Like I feel like it's allowed you guys to learn to be more gentle with one another and

be closer. And then even with, was it your friend that you said, her daughter committed suicide? Yeah, like it allowed you to be able to relate to someone else. Yes. And to help and bring light into that situation. And then adopt these kittens. And it's like it's small things. But I feel like it really does all tie together. Yes. She wants to listen to this by the way. Oh, good. Really? Yeah. She's planning on listening to it. So, yeah, that's and then that's the, oh, I was going to tell you about this dream too I had recently. And it was about, I was, and I know people talk about their dreams as boring,

but this is actually relevant because I was with my parents and the dream and Justin. And I was at a museum, which is something they used to drag us to all the time growing up. And he and I were talking, just a normal conversation we would have just about like how some of aspects of religion can be absurd. That's what we were talking about, which is something we totally would have talked about.

And I had a can. camera around my neck. And he was healthy and he was good. And I was like, look, mom, Justin's here. He's here. Like, can't you see that he's here? And like, and so like, I woke up and like I knew that he was like here. That makes any sense. And like I told my friend, the therapist, about this also. And she said, that's that's like the way of like the universe telling you that like Justin approves of what you're doing. And like he is proud of you. Yeah. It's going. make me cry again. But that's like,

no, it's true though. And I think, too, like when we have dreams about people that we've lost, it almost allows, it gives us the sense of like they're still there. It's almost like a comfort. Yes, I felt good. Like, I've had dreams with him and, and they don't feel good. Yeah, it might feel like weird or negative. Or sad or something.

But those kind of dreams, I think it is a, it's a sign in a way. Yeah. Even if people don't think it is who gives a shit because you can take it a time. Yeah, exactly. And if it makes you feel good and better about it, then that's all that matters. Yes. And it does. And it's like, it's like I can do, and this is what I posted recently about my show, but like, I can do with my photography and like I can live with like an art form in a way that he was never able to.

And so it makes it like I'm doing it for both of us almost. And it just feels just really beautiful. Yeah. And I think to carrying someone's memory is constantly keeping them like a very positive memory of them. And I think you did such a great job of. explaining and describing who he was. And I think, too, everybody faces demons in life and hardship and obstacles. I think like we were kind of saying before, it's just unfortunately some people can get

through it and some people can't. Yeah. And I think that when you just beat yourself up so much, it can just feel easier, just be like, I don't want to do it anymore. Yeah, like this is too painful. Yeah. And I think a lot of people don't understand that, but I think a lot of people also do. Yeah.

And I think you don't have to be hating life or suicidal to know that life can be shit. Yeah, for everyone. I mean, everyone's going to have their challenges. There's always going to be something. Yes, yes. And that's what my therapist said to me. She goes, I hate to break it to you, Jillian, but you're always going to have problems. No, always.

You always have problems. It's always something. But it's just getting through it. And like you said, I think it's amazing. You know, you have these beautiful children to live for and, you know, and his memory. And it's like, it's just, it's a constant, constant. binder, I feel like, of why you should keep going. Yes.

Bring positivity to the situation. Yeah. And I wanted to say, too, like about suicide specifically, like something that my friend who lost her daughter and I have talked about is like the stigma associated with it and how much we hate that stigma and how there's so much judgment for someone who's committed suicide and how that's not helping anyone. No. And I think, too, it's not something, like I said, whether you understand it or not, it happened,

that person was suffering. Yes. And I don't think it's right. And I don't think it's meant to be understood. No. Like at all. And we believe it or not, like there is a lot of good in the world, but we live in a very evil world.

Yes. So it's like I can't even. I mean, right. I don't think you're, we're not supposed to understand how someone could take their own life. But we're also not supposed to judge it like you said. Right. Yes.

Because I haven't been in that level of pain. Right. So why do I claim to understand? what he was going through. And you don't know. No one knows. No. No one knows.

No one knows. And so, and I think it's just people try to seek answers or it makes it easier to deal with like, oh, well, they were just doing a bad thing or they're going to burn in hell or whatever. Well, something that I hate. Well, I don't like the word hate. But something that I highly dislike is when people say that suicide is selfish, like, I don't think that they're really.

Yeah, they do say that. Yeah. And I don't think people are really thinking about, I think it's selfish to make that comment. Right. Because you don't know what someone was going. No. While, yes, it hurts everyone around them. They were hurting too. A lot.

Yeah. And I don't think there are enough resources. And I don't think there is any solution or fix. I mean, therapy is great. Right. It can help a lot of people. But even there's people that might try every solution and still just be so miserable. Yeah.

And decide to do something like that. And that's why I think that with Justin, I'm like, I've come to the point where I'm like, maybe he just wasn't meant to be here, like, any longer than he was. Like, because if he was meant to be here, he would be. And he's not. I think, too, in a way, like I kind of mentioned before, unfortunately, I think when people do take their own lives, it almost does, what it should do is instead of taking any negativity from it and saying it was selfish or this out there. Or why do they do it? Or I can't understand.

For being angry. Right. I think more so you can, it should show people why, like, how. how crucial it is that we need to be more gentle with one another. Yes. And that we need to live in a world that has more sensitivity and positivity. Less judgment. Yes.

Where everybody just is nice. Yes. You know? And I think that that's what it should teach. Yeah. It should show that we live in such a like fucking this world where everybody's critiquing you constantly that it's like, let's just live. Yeah.

And telling you what you're doing wrong. Yeah. And I think that's what it should do. And it's sad. in it, but it can also, it can, there's a lot of positive that can come from it. Yes. I think it can teach a lot of people to just be kinder and more gentle. Yes. And that's what I hope to do with this. And I mean, who knows what I would love to after this like in doing the photography and like speak on mental health places. And I would love to do that. And also I was wondering if I

could plug my website. Yes, of course. And I will, after this, send me a email or text or whatever with any links that you want to accept because I can link it all. Oh my gosh. But yeah, say what it is anyway. I don't want to clap and have the dog come back. No. I don't get too happy. Yeah.

It's Jillian Photography.com and Jillian is spelled G-I-L-L-I-N. Photography. So you're doing photography on your own now, right? I'm doing it on my own. I also do it on the beach at a resort. Okay. And so it's really, that's so good for my mental health because it's, first of all, everyone's like in good mood.

it's like families and couples on vacation. And then I'm out watching the sunset. It's like sunset photos like a few days a week. And it's like, oh. So I'm out watching like it's just beautiful. So I'm just enjoying that because I get happy people and to be out in the sunset and just like have your feet in the sand and all of that is like been amazing. So that plus like the artistic side of photography like I'm going to be selling all my

own photos and everything on Saturday. Yeah, it's really exciting. That's great. It's just like I find. finally feel like, you know, when you want to know, like, what you've done, like, what your thing is that you want to do in your life and what your passion is? And it's like, I'm just living my passion right now and it just feels just aligned. That's amazing. Yeah. You crushed it. You did such a great job. You should be so proud of yourself. Really? Yes, your brother would be so

proud of you. Oh, that makes me feel so good. No, really, he would be. I feel like he's going to be with me at the photography exhibit. He's with you all the time. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Of course. I'm serious. But no, great job. Thank you for one. to come on and share your story. Oh my gosh, thank you for having me. I'm like so this has been amazing.