We're All Insane - Forced into Child Marriage: Life as a Mormon

Episode Date: October 28, 2024

In today's episode, Kristin shares her courageous story of her life as an ex-Mormon woman who was forced into a marriage at just 14 years old. Hear how she navigated a life controlled by strict religious expectations, and the path that ultimately led her to break free from her oppressive circumstances. Kristin's Links: https://www.tiktok.com/@kristinschaoticlife https://www.youtube.com/@kristinschaoticlife If you have a unique story you'd like to share on the podcast, please fill out this form: https://forms.gle/ZiHgdoK4PLRAddiB9 or send an email to [e-mail] Business Inquiries please contact: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, it's me DeVora. I just dropped an all new bonus episode inside my new subscription channel, We're All Insane Plus. This week's bonus episode is called My Brain was slipping into my spine. Listen now by subscribing to We're All Insane Plus inside your Spotify or Apple Podcasts app or go to we're all insane.com. I am Kristen and first of all, I'm just grateful to be here today because I feel like you do such a good job at allowing people to have a voice and to share their story. And it allows them the space to be able to process what they lived. And that's something that is so hard for people to do when they live through trauma is processing what they lived and understanding that what they live was actually traumatic for them.

Like I didn't understand that I had trauma until I was 38 and I have lived through trauma all my life and I didn't realize it. So the fact that you have this platform is just amazing to me. Thank you. So I guess my story kind of goes back whenever I was young, obviously. I was born in Utah. We lived there until I was about four years old, and then my parents decided to move across country to North Carolina.

So I came from a Mormon family type thing, and we moved to North Carolina whenever I was four, and I don't have a lot of memory. of my childhood, to be perfectly honest. But I do remember when we got there, we found a house, and next door to our house was, there's a little apartment that was there, and they had kids in the house. So one of the kids that lived there became my older brother's best friend. He was seven. I was four years old at the time, almost five. And I don't remember meeting him, but he always remembered exactly what I was wearing the day that he met me.

I guess I was the first one. My parents have five kids, so I have four siblings. And he always said that he remembered exactly what I was wearing. I was the first one that he met. And he was, but he said that I was bouncing on my knees on trampoline with, like, cut-off jeans and a pink shirt with an elephant on it with piggy tails or something. I don't know. So that was the first time that I met my second husband.

He grew up next door, so he was always at our house. It was kind of his safe place because he was living through his own stuff, but that's his story. So he became best friends with my brother and was over a lot. And we got kind of close. And he was kind of like a brother to me for a very long time, which is kind of weird. But it was a very small town where we moved to, like very small. So it's like everybody knew everybody. Yeah, but also he was hanging with your brother. So it almost gives you that like perception, I feel like, to some degree.

Yeah, exactly. So we became friends throughout the years. And at some point, I guess he said whenever I turned 12, he was like, I started developing. And actually, I started developing when I was 10. But so I started developing and he started getting a crush on me and we tried to date whenever I was 13. But it didn't, my brother wouldn't talk to me anymore. He just was like, that was his best friend, you know, and it had been for a year. So he was like, okay, we can't date. And first. of all, why the frick am I dating at the age of 13 anyways? Like, that's just not okay. And honestly, I'm kind of skipping. So I guess I could go back a little tiny bit, but he's a big part of my story. So I had quite a few neighbors. Well, I had a friend, her name was Jackie, and she had a brother who lived next door too. So it's like growing up in North Carolina, first of all.

let's talk about that area. It's a very toxic area to grow up in. It's like southern Bible Belt area. So me being Mormon was very much judged because of that. I was always told, you're not going to go to the pearly gates or whatever. I'm not religious anymore. Also, Kit, is there any way that you can kind of explain to us, like, what it is growing up to like, what it is to be Mormon and how it was growing up for you? Yeah. I know you said you don't remember much, but just like for people that don't kind of have an understanding exactly. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, I actually come from, I'm actually related to the founder of the church. So he's like my, his uncle was my great, great, whatever, grandfather.

He's like my eighth cousin or something. And that was something that I took so much pride in. I was like, I am related to the founder of the Mormon church. So I am going to make sure that I live like completely dedicated to the church. That was like my goal. But my parents were inactive whenever we moved to North Carolina. They stopped going. But my grandma kept taking me every single Sunday.

but she passed away when I was eight. My grandma was like my safe place. And, like, I would go over to my grandma's house all the time, and I don't have a lot of memories even at my own home, to be honest. Like, I remember some things over at my grandma's house. I remember a lot of outdoor things, like whenever I would go outdoors. But anyway, so she would take me to church, and then when she passed away when I was eight,

she passed away from breast cancer, and I was actually there the last few weeks that she died. I was helping my grandpa take care of her, beating her tapioca pudding. That smell still, like, reminds me of her so much. But, and she did have a lot of memories, but I remember she always called me Christy. So there was one time she was, like, not vocal whatsoever,

but she woke up one day and was like, hey, Christy, and it just, like, made me so emotional. She was my person. She was, like, my emotional connection, because I didn't feel like I had any emotional connection. But then she passed away when I was eight, So I stopped going to church for a little bit. But basically the Mormon religion is, it's very Christian.

Like it's based off of Christianity. They're a lot like Catholics, to be honest, in a sense, very organized. The differences that we believe, they believe that there is a prophet today on earth that is a spokesperson for God. So it's like we have a prophet. I can't think of his name right now. But there is someone that always gives us insights on how we're supposed to live. It's very strict. Like huge rules.

No drinking coffee. No alcohol, anything like that. Like cussing. Like every single little tiny thing that a normal person might do is very much judged. And then can it be multiple wives as well? Or is that kind of like an old thing? That was in the beginning of the church. So when Joseph Smith, the thing with him is he, so he was 14 years old, the story, I got to think

back to the actual story that I used to believe in and not the one that I know now. But they kept a lot of secrets from us as members for a very long time. So we didn't know a lot about a lot of the wives that he had. But they, so he basically found gold plates buried. He would go hunting for treasure and he found these gold plates in the ground. And they had writing on it and he transcribed it and it became the book of Mormon. And one thing that he did was during that time he was trying to find faith. And all these different churches, like he would go to like, I don't know, all the different types of Christian churches.

I can't think of them all right now. And he just didn't feel like any of them are right. So he prayed to God and was like, okay, so which one? is the correct church. And then when he was, he went out to the woods to go do this, like in this grove. And then all of a sudden there was a light that beamed over top of him. And there was two, like, two beings there. And one of them was like, this is my son, here, him. So then, and it was supposed to be Heavenly Father in Jesus Christ. Because we believe that they're all separate, like the Holy Ghost and Jesus and God were all separate beings and not like the Holy Trinity,

you like a lot of Christians believe. But so Christ, his personal or whatever, told him that none of these churches, that they all speak, they all have some truths, but not the full truth, not the full gospel. So these two persons basically told him, none of them are true, you need to create your own religion. So he grabbed the tablets and he had other people help him and transcribed it. and it became the Book of Mormon. He created his own gospel.

And it started like Kirkland, Ohio or something like that. And then they had to, they were getting a lot of backlash as he started getting older and started getting all these people to join the church and stuff. And plural marriage wasn't a thing yet. So he got married to Emma Smith and found his following. And then they started because of all the hate and everything from all the other religion. from him creating a new one. He left there and started, that's why they started tracking to Utah.

So it's like they started, I don't know, they went through like so much bad weather and just all the stuff and just tried to trek and lots of lives were lost. But then eventually he got a calling that he was supposed to take on more wives. And now I know that basically he told his wife in. Emma, that God told me that I have to have more wives to live the gospel. So you have to accept it. You have to be okay with it. So what ended up happening, and this stuff is not taught to the members, really. Like, we were told not to watch anything outside of the church. Be careful who you communicate with. It's very much, like, boxed in. So he ended up taking on more wives, and they

did not tell us that he started taking on child wives. So it's like he took on, I think his youngest was 14. I think he had six. I could be totally wrong, but six children and wives. He started taking wives from other men and just, you know, living all happy with this polygamy. And it was a big thing for a while because what they told us was they had to do plural wives because a lot of the men were being murdered or killed off because of their beliefs. And women with these kids needed help. So all these men just, you know, they just took on these wives because they just, all these women just needed their help and they needed, it's very much controlled by man. It's very, um, misogynistic. Okay. So eventually, um, so that's, so it's not a thing now. There's like a falling out

of the Mormon church. It's called the FLDS that still does plural marriage. That's, I'm pretty sure is, I don't know if they're still, I think they're, I was watching a documentary on Yeah, I think they're like coming in there and putting a stop to it or something like that. We're trying to, but everything is very much controlled for them to, but it's not nearly as big. The Mormon church, like, grew. There's like over 10 million, I think it was last time I heard 17 million or so people all worldwide. So like the church grew big and they're like a billion dollar organization basically. So, yeah, plural marriage became a thing.

But then eventually they started getting backlash about the pluror marriage. So they had to, because of the U.S. and everything, they had to cut it back. So it's not a thing anymore. However, people still, you know, think that sometimes. But it's not allowed now. But it was back then. So it's very, like it's, it's beautiful from the, like, whenever you're living it. And the teachings are amazing.

It's all about family. It's all about if you live a worthy life, then you get to spend eternity with your family. because what happens is you go to a temple and you can become still to your family and you are placed in the celestial kingdom and you get to become your own God and you get to create your own planets and have your own children, the spirit children that you can put on Earth. So it's like very, it's, now that I'm on the outside, it's interesting. But I truly believed it because I was so big on family. Family was huge to me.

Since my parents didn't go to church and I love the church. And it was my grandma's faith. She was actually Catholic, but she joined the church because my grandpa is related to the Smith and stuff. So she joined the church. And I was, so I didn't, the age of baptism is eight years old normally, but because my parents were inactive, I didn't get baptized until 11 because I told them. I was like, look, I want to get baptized. I want to join the church, you know. You guys know I go.

So I had a really cute missionary baptized me, you know, I had 11. And I loved the church. Like I was, it was a huge part of who I was. It was huge part of like my daily thoughts. And it started out with after my grandma died, I was praying, but I was talking to my grandma. So it's like I never prayed before then, really. But I was talking to my grandma. So I was like, this is how I'm going to see my grandma again because she was my person.

So I had to be completely active so I could see her again as what my little girl brain was. telling me. And purity culture is very big in the church, obviously. So, and one thing that they like to do is marry young. Get married super young. Have kids super young because that's like what God wants us to do. Have as many kids as you can. So I got baptized. And that was at 11. Yeah, at 11. And but I had like boys that were always interested in me, like my neighbor that had had been and her older brother, that was the first time that I was kind of, he was like my first kiss. And there was a time that I told my sister and my friend like, oh, yeah, I had my first kiss. And they were like, oh, yeah, prove it.

So there was one that I went over to our house. And we were in his room and they were like, well, we dare you. We were playing like theirs. And they were, so they wanted to see us kiss. so we did and then that night after they fell asleep that was the first time that like I was touched in that kind of way that I remember and there was a time that he had or that night he had tried to put his hands down my pants and I didn't know what to do like I completely froze my entire body froze and I didn't know what to say what to do how to act and and then he was like is this

okay and I'm so grateful that he asked me that because I was like and I didn't even hear what he said all my I just automatically said no yeah and and he stopped so I was grateful for that and let's rewind one year because actually his uncle a year before I had went up to their house and he was there and this a lot of this comes into play because of my inability to say no to people whenever I am being sexually abused. So there was a time that I went to go visit and his uncle was there. And I think it was the first time that I met his uncle, but he was like really friendly and everything.

And then he came back to my friend Jackie's room. And his daughter was there. And he like put me on his lap and put his hand up my shirt and looked at his daughter and was like, this is my girl now. And that was like, what? Like, that was weird to me. And I didn't know what to think or what to expect or anything. I was just like, I was just frozen.

So every single time something like that would happen to me, I would just completely freeze and just allow whatever to happen to me because I didn't know how to stop it. I was a child. And this was a grown-ass man. So he was probably in his 30s or something. But, and there was another time that I went over to their house. And that night, I don't remember anything. I don't think he did anything, but honestly, I don't have any memories of that time.

So this whole, like, I feel like predatory pedophilia type behavior is huge where I grew up. It's everywhere. Being sexualized at a very young age is still a thing to this day there. Like my little niece lives there. And I, just from the things that she tells me, everybody grows up so early there. And it's so sad because nobody can just remain. children and girls are just automatically as soon as I mean honestly even as the even before the age of eight they're like sexualized there and it's it's everywhere there's so many people that are on the

that are on the list of being pedophiles so it's just not a great place to raise kids and even in elementary school I remember all the boys like wanting to pull my dress up when I was in second grade and like everything is so sexualized for children there it's so sad so you just kind of get used to it it becomes your normal like the way that the older people will flirt with the little girls it's so normal it's normalized and none of us realized or recognized that we just are living our lives and growing up too soon especially the girls while the men are all you know just and i'm not like trying to say they all men you know i know i know i know that that's a huge thing, but it's...

That's just what you experienced. Yeah. But, um, so my dad always lived somewhere. He was with us for a while until I was about eight. And then he moved the way to go work. And I didn't really see my dad that often after that. And I don't remember much during before that time period. So it was just my mom and five kids, basically.

So she was doing the best that she was doing the best that she was. could, to be perfectly honest, like she would take us on vacations, but she kind of let us do our own thing. And she would work, and we would go to the pool by ourselves at a very young age. We would go walking all over town at a young age. And there was even like this preacher that ran this pool that was close to us where she allowed me and my friend, who was only 11 at the time to go camping with this person. And he would just tell us ghost stories or whatever, but he would also let us spend the night at our house, and we would go swimming in his little pool that he had. And, you know, he didn't do anything, but now them an adult, I'm like, why in the

world is anybody allowing children to just be at some man's house who they don't know? Because now I recognize he was just like probably sitting up there watching us or something. You know, it's just, it's just really, it just creeps me out. Now that I think about it because it was fun. Me and my friend Jackie had so much fun going to these places, going camping, and he took us to sliding rock. It's a really cool place. You never know.

Yeah, exactly. You can't be too careful and cautious. Exactly. So my mom was okay with me going wherever I want, and she was okay with me dating at whatever age. And so whenever I was 12, I started, I started becoming, like at 11, I got baptized, but I wasn't completely active in the church still. But then there was a neighbor that would come over to pick me up on Sundays because the thing was I didn't have a ride to church.

So she started coming to pick me up and taking me all the time. And a lot of the teachers that taught me in church were older men. And I loved them all. They were all just so sweet and so nice to me. So I just felt comfortable around older men a lot of the time. And I remember there was one time at 12 years old, you joined the youth group basically. So you get to do all these fun things. They'll throw dances.

And I remember one of the older men telling me that they had a mutual with all of the boys. and they were like, the older men asked them, like, well, which one of the young women do you like? And this older man came to me and said, yeah, I asked them this question and all the boys said you. And this just made me feel so good about myself, you know? I'm like, oh, wow, that's so cool. Okay, I'm so cool. And I was just weird that he even came to me to tell me that. It was such a young age, you know?

Right. So there's just so much of that stuff there. And I think it goes back to what you said of almost being sexualized at such a young age and it becomes like you're normal. It gives you from such a young age, it gives you like that sense of validation that a child shouldn't need in that way. You know what I mean? Like it's of being so young. Exactly. Yeah.

Yeah. So and even like I'm not saying anything about my dad necessarily, but even he was like overly friendly and would like every single friend that. I would ever, or my older sister, because he wasn't really around whenever I had friends older, but he would always like come up with little nicknames for them or something. And I just thought it was a good dad. And maybe it was. I don't know. But, um, looking back on it, you start to like question.

Yeah. Like seeing what he did and how he treated people and knowing what I know now, I'm just kind of like, I'm just kind of, I don't trust very many people anymore. And I think the thing is, too, and I tell people this all the time, you know, when you have a gut feeling, whether it was then, whether it's now, you trust it. And that's not to say, it's not to like point fingers or to blame, but it's more so like how you said when you reflect and you look back and these things that you look at now kind of, it makes you realize how creepy and how not normal they were. Like, I agree with you. You know what I mean? Like you don't have to explain that,

and this is me just saying it in general. Like you don't have to explain or validate that to anybody. Like if that is how you feel and the feeling you get, it's better to trust that and be like, yeah, that wasn't normal and I wouldn't want that for my younger self or for my children. Exactly. And that's like the thing. Like, now that I understand and see what I see now, it's like, if there is an adult that is giving too much attention to your child, then you need to be looking at them. Like, you need to see that as a red flag.

And there's so many parents that just allow, like, their friends to be. to come in and be around their children and because they trust them or whatever. But if they're paying too much attention to your child, like there's no reason why a grown-ass man should be paying so much attention to a little girl, in my opinion. I don't care who you are at this point. I'm at that point in my life. Right. So and I didn't know that or recognize that until just a few years ago because I was, you know,

in situations where I was allowing people that were like that to do that too. And it, because it was my normal. It was normal. So, but my awareness is much bigger now. Yeah. So my childhood is very scattered and all over the place because, like I said, I don't have that many memories of a lot of it. I barely even remember my home. My mom still lives in the same house, but it looks different now, so it's weird. But when I was, let's say, so I started dating quite like different boys here and there. And every single time I would date one, they would put their hand up my shirt. I would say nothing. I would freeze.

I would say nothing. I would make me so mad because in my head I was screaming like, don't touch me, don't touch me. But I would just sit there and be like, okay. And they just assumed that I was okay with it. But I wasn't. And I didn't know how to express myself. And that's been like my entire life. And it took me a long time to figure that out.

So at the age of 13, I was dating a boy in eighth grade for six months. And I was in love with him. He was going to be the love of my life. I was so going to marry this day. Yeah. So. But there was a time that he had taken advantage of that. And he had put his hands down my pants.

And I had to go tell my bishop because that's one. thing. Like if you do something before marriage, you have to go to your bishop. If you are in the youth group, you have to go to your bishop and you have to tell them what happened. So this happened to me and we were getting ready for a temple trip. You can go to the temple. I think they allow 12 to 17 year olds go to the temple to do baptism for the dead. And basically what that is is you go in and you bring names from your genealogy from your ancestry is like Mormon church is huge on answer they probably own most of the like like family tree and all those things because they're so big in genealogy but you take in people that you're related

to and if they were not baptized into the church you get to stand in their place in proxy be baptized in the water in their name. And that was so big for me. Going to the temple, I don't know if you've ever seen a Mormon temple, but they are beautiful. They are like, they spend millions and millions. I don't even know how much on them. They're like big castles, basically. So I was, that was like my dream to go to a temple. And then this happened. So I had to go to my bishop. And I had to tell them, like, we were doing the interview to be able to go to the baptisms for the dead. And he told me, he wanted me to give every single little detail of what happened. And I was in a room with this older man, he was probably 50 or so, in his 50s.

I was in a room by myself, and I have to explain what happened to me to this older man. And he tells me, well, you don't get to go to the temple because this happened to you. And I'm like, but I didn't even want it to happen to me. Like, why am I being punished? It's like, you should have stopped. You should have stopped it before it happened. And it caused so much toxic shame inside of me that to the point to where I just, like, hated who I was for a while because it was my dream to go. And it was like, it was just stolen from me just like that.

And it was devastating to me. And looking back now, I'm like, why in the world was this old man able to hear details about what was going on with me sexually? because that's just weird. But it really affected me in a very negative way. And purity culture was so big that, you know, don't do this. Don't even be in the same room with another boy. But my mom was allowing anything, basically. Another boyfriend that I had wanted me to go camping with him. And I told my mom, like, I don't want to go. I don't want to go camping with him because I was afraid something would happen. and I wouldn't be able to stop it. And so I was like, his mom's going to call you.

So tell him that I can't go. And it was during a Fourth of July. She told me, she was like, okay, yeah, I'll tell them no. Mom calls. My mom's on the phone with him or with his mom. And she was like, oh, yeah, she can go. She's available. And I'm just like, I started crying when she got off the phone.

I was like, Mom, I told you, don't want to go. Tell them, no, I don't want to go. And I just started crying. And so she had to call them back and be like, actually, I need her help with work. So I ended up not going on that. But the fact that she just was okay after I told her I didn't want to, and it just really got to me. After I had broken up with my, with one of those boyfriends, my second husband came into the, well, he was always around because he was always at my house. But, and he was 16 at the time, I was 13.

So that's when we started dating for that week, and I told him that we couldn't because of my brother. And after that, like, he was one of my best friends, and he wouldn't talk to me for several months after that. So it's kind of like a silent treatment, I guess. Was his family religious as well? They were very Baptist. He was very Baptist. He was very much into purity culture, like, in the Southern Baptist way. So he was one who was like, I can't have sex before marriage.

And that's something that he still kind of regrets to this day. I don't know. But so it was really devastating to me whenever he suddenly became not my friend anymore because he was one of my closest friends. And we grew up side by side, basically. And it broke my heart because he was my good friend. But then I think it was like six months where he wouldn't talk to me. But on my 14th birthday, he came back around.

And we went to one of my other brother's friends. to the pool and he started finally talking to me. He was kind of rude at first, but then he was like, okay, whatever, you know, let's be friends again. And he came in strong with telling me about all the different girls that he liked and, and I guess trying to make me jealous in some kind of way. So I'm 14 at this time. And still, I dated a few boys here and there, but nothing serious.

I'm Anna Garcia, host of True Crime News, the podcast. Every week we bring you in-depth coverage on cases making headlines, as well as those that go under the radar. Tune in for murders that defy explanation, mystery-seeking exploration, and shocking secrets that will leave you breathless. Each week we honor the victims by going beyond the salacious in our search for justice. Crime never stops, and neither do we. Listen to true crime news available now wherever you get your podcasts. Well, we became really close friends. Again, we actually, I think this is when we really became best friends.

But it was always like, when you date someone, tell me, you know, all of the details about what you guys do or whatever. And he just wanted all the information. And he was giving me all the information that he was doing with his girlfriends. And he just like, I swear, every single girl. But we went to different high schools. He was in, we went to like rivalry type high schools, but we were neighbors. I guess his mom put him in the school where she was a cop at. She was a cop in a certain town, so he went to school there.

So about six months into us building this friendship and everything, there was even a time where he transferred over to my high school for me so that he can be closer to me. And there was this one guy like senior that I liked, and he went and told this senior that I liked him. And so we were just like always talking about the boys that we liked or whatever, but at some point I started being like, well, you know, why don't you like me anymore? Like, what the heck, ma'am? I thought you liked me. I thought we were going to get

married someday. So it was kind of weird that I started feeling that way because I had broken it off, but I was a freaking child. I shouldn't have even been dating all these people. Shouldn't have been interested in boys as much. Um, so I think it was, I was probably about 14 and seven months or something, he invited a friend over from his high school over who was also a senior and he was 18 and my friend was 17 at this time. He brought him over to my house and we had a pool table. So we always had, we had all the kids come over to our house. He brought him over and I guess before he came, he had bought him like a Burger King burger for $10 or something. So he was like, I know this really cool girl and if I set you up with her, then

can we just drop the $10 and I don't have to pay you back? And he's and his friend's like, yeah, sure, cool, or whatever. So that he came over to my house and then, and I didn't know that he was trying to send me up with his friend at this time. But, you know, he was cute. He had long, my first husband, this ended up being my first husband. He had very long, bleached blonde hair that, and he was, he was cute. And he was older.

So that was so exciting, you know, an 18-year-old and I'm 14. And we hit it off. So I started dating this guy and he is, I mean, he's nice in the beginning, you know, super, super cool. And that was one thing that I told him like, look, I'm waiting until I'm married to have sex. I'm still too young. Like, I'm way too young to be having sex. And he was like, oh, yeah, I respect that. That's cool.

And, you know, he had been with somebody once before and was totally. okay with it, he said. But within a month of us even, like, I swear, it was like every week he would be like, so you're at have sex yet? And I'm like, no. And it was constant. Like the pressure. Yeah, it was constant. And then it started becoming like every day. Like, so you're to have sex, you're at have sex? And I'm like, no, I'm not ready. I'm not ready. I don't want to do this. But there was a time that, like, we were making out. And we had been dating for, I think two months at this time. And we were making out and I was wearing a dress and I just lost my words.

I had no voice. I couldn't stop it. And he was just like, I'm just going to put the tip in and that's it. And I was just like couldn't stop it. And that's when I lost my virginity to this man. And that's when I decided, well, I have to marry him because I am supposed to be with one man my entire life. I have to marry this man because my body is for one person, the love of my life. And this is apparently the love of my life now.

That's what my child brain was telling me. And shortly after that, my mom, I didn't tell anybody. I didn't tell anybody. I was really ashamed because of what my bishop had told me. And I had even told my boyfriend at this time, like after it happened twice, I don't want to be doing this. Like I don't want to be, I don't want to be doing this. And he was like, well, it's too late. We already have.

So we have to continue. Like if you just stop now, then, then we're going to have to break up. Did you end up telling the bishop that you did that? No. I didn't. No. I was too scared. Yeah.

I just like, I'm not going to go interview to go to the temple. I'm not worthy enough to go to the temple. I am a worthless piece of trash now. I am a worthless piece of gum. Because one thing that in young women's, they teach you, like this is one. of the lessons that they will give you in church. Like, do you see this cupcake? And we're like, yeah, it looks delicious. And they're like, well, I'd like, would you eat it? I'm like, yeah, absolutely. And then they lick the frosting off. And then they're like, would you eat it now?

And we're like, no, that's gross. I'm like, well, that's what happens when you have sex. You become, like, tainted. You become dirty. You become. So that's, I took that very deeply, like internally. I am just this terrible bad person. I'm so dirty. I'm disgusting. I'm not worthy. I, you know, I I started getting to the point to where I just hated who I was. And he was still forcing me. And I didn't see it as rape at that time because I felt like I had a choice, even though I didn't. But it's like I couldn't stop it. So I just, like, dissociated because that was my thing. Whenever things get hard, I just dissociate from my emotions. So I just, like, pretend, like, to my family that I'm perfect.

I'm great. I'm living unhappy, you know, I got this boyfriend, he's cool or whatever, and I'm totally happy. So it's like my family doesn't even see my struggle necessarily, but honestly, thinking back, I don't know how they didn't see that I was struggling because I had isolated. I was in my room constantly when I used to be active and went everywhere. and suddenly I'm just like become a shell. I become a shell. So whenever I'm 15, my mom lets him move into our house and he's upstairs.

Like he has a room. We kind of, my mom set it up to where there was a bed in there and she put a curtain up. It was in the dining room area. So he slept up there and he would play video games. He had graduated from high school at this point. and he would sit there and play games all day long, wouldn't work or anything, but he just lived there. And I slept downstairs in my room, but every single night he would come down to my room, and I would just wait for those cold hands every single night.

Like, he was freezing every single time because we didn't have, we just had like a fireplace or something. So he was always cold, but he would always come down to the room and just do whatever he wanted to me in the middle of the night, just every night, basically. So it's like for a long time. that was every night of my life. The entire time I was 15, that was every night of my life. And why did he move in? Because my mom, because he was my boyfriend, so my mom let him. Okay.

And so did he end up asking, and that's why? Or, like, how did it get to that point? Do you remember? You know, I don't even know. I think he just started coming over and staying there. My mom just let anybody come and say. She was just okay with all of our friends coming over and being there all the time. So I think he just one day moved in.

And that was one thing. Like when we first started dating and he introduced me to his mom the first time, he was like, don't tell her how old you are. And I'm like, well, why? Why does it matter that I'm 14? And that was kind of, that should have been a red flag for me. But, you know, I didn't know what red flag were back then. They weren't very well known.

So I was just not okay. And I started self-harming. And I was mentally gone. I was still doing my schoolwork, but like even my French teacher would let me sleep at my desk because I wasn't sleeping because he would come in the middle of the night and I would be awake half the night. So it's like I was just in, I was on autopilot. And I don't know how. I have four siblings. My sister didn't live there at the time.

No, she had already grown out or gotten married and everything. But I had had three siblings that live there. and my mom and my parents, I guess during this time, I think one reason why my mom was just like, whatever, is when I was 15, she decided she was going to divorce my husband. My husband. Oh, my God. My dad. And they had been married for 24 years.

And it was very unexpected, even though it shouldn't have been because they really weren't even living together. They weren't together much at all to be. honest and she just didn't seem like she was in love with him anymore she was raising five kids by yourself he was never there she if he did come he would complain about the mess because she was supposed to make it perfect i was one thing that my dad loved to tell me like you're going to be a great wife you're going to keep house clean you're going to do this you're going to like tell me exactly how i need to be the perfect wife and um that stuff was ingrained in me like i have to be the perfect wife

I have to do and follow whatever my husband says because that's what the priesthood says in the church. You have to be exactly what your husband needs or wants you to be, basically. So she was going through her own divorce and her own traumas, but she was very silent about it. And she didn't communicate what she was feeling, what she was going through. I think she was very dissociated to. I think something she had lost her mom and she was going through her own. issues and leaving my dad after 24 years. She was just kind of in our own headspace. And that's when chat rooms and the internet became available. I was born in 1982. So that's when internet became

popular. And she started getting on chat rooms. And she was talking to, like she would meet all kinds of people on there. And there was even a time that she posted my older sister's senior picture and was pretending to be my older sister for a while. Because she's like, well, I'm just trying to find, I'm just trying to find your sister, a boyfriend. And I just thought that was weird. I'm like, but why are you pretending to be her? That's just weird. But she was just meeting, she was just not meeting, but she was talking all these people.

And what she would tell me, like, she would talk about them all the time to me. And she would be like, oh, this person's telling me this and this. And they're just like my kids where I can be there for them because they're going through so much. Meanwhile, I'm being right downstairs every single night while she's helping these other kids that don't even live in her home. And it ended up being that she, like, she decided that she wanted to go on a one-month trip. And this was right before I turned 16. She wanted to take all of us, all of us five kids to travel the United States for one month. So we all got in this big van and my older brother brought his girlfriend.

And my boyfriend didn't come with us. And that was really hard for me because I'm like, I have to, you know, he's going to cheat on me. And that was another thing. Like he did actually cheat on me once and I didn't know and I didn't believe it. Like this older girl came to my high school and tried to tell me that he had cheated on her with me, which she actually gave him chlamydia. and I ended up getting it, but I didn't know that, like, you know. And he, yeah, that was, I didn't know until after we even got divorced that he had cheated on me during that time.

So it's like he cheated on me before we even got married. But, so yeah, my mom wanted to do this one month trip, and all five of us kids came with one of my brother's girlfriends. And it was hard for me because I, because like he, my, my boyfriend had a very strict thing, like you have to call me at this time. So I'm like, Mommy, I had to go to pay phone or something at this time. No cell phones at this time. So it was like, we have to stop at pay phone so that I can call him because, you know, he needs me to call him, so I have to do it.

Like, she should have seen how toxic this relationship was. And she should have been there to support me and help me and get in my head and tell me, oh, this isn't healthy. This isn't okay. But I didn't have that safe space. and I didn't feel like I could go to her and tell her what was going on because she was going through her own traumas, her own life, her own situation. So I just felt very alone.

And I was also ashamed of what was going on. I was embarrassed. I felt like it was my fault because my boyfriend told me it was my fault. Like, well, you have to do it. You have to do it now. So, and if I didn't, then I was just a terrible girlfriend and not worthy to be his girlfriend anymore. And on this one month trip, like, it was good the first few weeks, but I had a journal that I was keeping and my sister decided, which she's my oldest sister, and she's the one who would have

stopped this if she could have, but she lived further away. But she found my journal because she could see that I wasn't doing okay. And she had read in there that it was obvious that I was writing that I was being forced to have sex with this person. And she went to my mom and told my mom what was going on. And I got really mad when I found out she had read my private journal. We were in Las Vegas at this time. I got really upset.

So I ran out of the hotel room and I ran down to the street in Las Vegas. And I was standing there as this 15-year-old girl crying. And this older homeless-looking guy comes up to me. is like, hey, are you okay? And I'm like, I'm fine. He's like, do you know where your parents are? I'm like, oh, they're that way. And he's like, well, let me take you to them. And I just, like, my body automatically started moving because I felt scared. And that's one thing that I realize now is that when I'm scared, I just follow. Like, it's a, it's a freeze and fawn thing. So it's like, I freeze for a second and then I start fawning because I'm like, I don't know what to do,

but to do whatever this person is telling me to do. And that's like, I, I feel like that was ingrained in me very young, but I don't have those memories, like before the age of four. And my boyfriend at that time was keeping that mindset going where I had to follow. I had to do whatever somebody was telling me to do or, you know, I was doing it wrong. So I followed this guy and we walked through the hotel or we walked through like a, we walked through a casino. And I was just following along, like terrified. like, what am I supposed to do? And then we walked through the casino where my parents were at. And I'm like, well, where are we going? My parents are that way. And I'm just following along like a lost little dog.

Like, okay, let's go. We got this. And then all of a sudden I hear a hug. And I'm like, okay, what's that? It scared me. And my sister, one of my sisters jumps out of the van, runs over to me. And she's got like this beautiful southern accent. My sister does. Oh, my God, it's amazing. but she goes over to she runs over to me she's like Kristen where are you going and I'm like I'm going to you guys and she's like get in the car now and um and that that guy's like oh you have such a beautiful accent and um so anyway my sister grabbed my arm and like pulled me back into the car so it's a good thing that they were driving down the strip looking for me and they pulled me back into the car and I just didn't leave the car again like we went to Yellowstone Park I didn't even get to see old faithful because I was so stubborn and I just didn't want to leave my car because I was scared at that

point. I'm just like I'm just going to see here. There was a TV in the car so I just sat there and watched it and my sister my oldest sister had a romance book so I read a romance books and I just kind of stayed to myself the rest of the trip. But my sister had told my mom about my journal and what I had put in there. So when we get back from the trip, a week later after the trip my mom pulls me aside and she's like you know Kristen you've been dating your boyfriend for about a year and a half i think you guys can go ahead and get married and i'm like oh oh and actually i left that out he had already proposed to me by the time i was 14 like and i'm like well we're at least engaged so you know i guess and this was the same okay hold on

Backtrack for me. So you met him, right, because you met him when you were 14. Yeah. And your brother's best friend is who set you guys up? Yeah. Okay. So he proposed to you back when you were 14. Yeah.

So that whole time you had been engaged. Yeah. Okay. And then your mom said now fast, you were what? Were you? I was 15. I was almost 16. Okay.

And then she said it's like it's time you guys get married. Yeah. Okay. Did she know that you guys were engaged? Yeah. Okay. She was okay with it. He actually did it right in front of her, like proposed to me right in front of her as 18-year-old

proposing to a 14-year-old girl. And he was almost 19 at the time, too. Okay. So she says that to you. Yeah. Okay. She's like, yeah, you know, it's normal in our religion or whatever. So I think it's okay, it's safe for you guys to go ahead and get married.

And at this point, like, I'm so upset with my family because my parents are getting divorced. I'm very much alone. I am like literally suffering. I'm self-harming. I'm trying to stay a lie because I wanted to commit, I wanted to unalign myself so many times and tried to a few times, but I never told my family about it. You know, they still don't even know to this day what I even live because I was never open about it. So at this point, I'm just like, wow, okay, I guess you're done raising me. Like, I guess you're done being my mom.

Like, you haven't really been there the past two years anyways. So, and I'm like, and I can continue having sex without feeling guilty about it. Yeah. You know, because by then I was just like, oh, whatever, I have to do it anyway. So just perform. That's like what I was trained to do, perform however he wanted me to. And, you know, it got, it was rough a lot of the time. It was, it was scary, but it was my normal.

It became my normal. And it became my nightly thing. So it's like I was so dissociated. from the feelings of what I was going through that I just was existing barely in a very just dissociated way. And I was like, okay, yeah, sure, let's get married. And so that's what we start planning. And like within three weeks, it was almost my 16th birthday. I remember I got married two days after my birthday. Like a week before. before my wedding day, my friend who set us up, the one I grew up with, my brother's best friend,

yeah, he decided to kind of step in and be like, whoa, what are you doing? You know, why are you getting married or whatever? I thought that this wasn't, like, he even admitted later that the reason why he sent me up with this fool, my first husband, was because he thought that it was going to be toxic. He knew he was a jerk. He knew that he was like a lying manipulative asshole. But he sent me up with him because he thought I would have a broken heart and he would be able to pull the pieces together basically after I had left him. And one of them, whether it was the neighbor that had touched me when I was 11, or my second husband, my brother's best friend, had keyed my, um, my, um, that had keyed my boyfriends, truck. I don't know which one it was to this day. I think it was the neighbor.

But so yeah, it was like this triangle thing just all around me and I'm just like consumed with, I don't even know, just survival. I'm just surviving at this point. And I don't even know how I'm surviving. But so yeah, she brings it up and I'm just like, yeah, sure, I'll go ahead and get married, you know, then I can, I can feel like I'm not sinning anymore. I can feel like I'm not a terrible person anymore because I'm a terrible person and I don't deserve to be alive because that's where my brain was at a lot of the time. There was always that voice, those voices in my head, telling me like, don't do it, don't do it, you know, this is, this is going to be bad, this is going to be ugly, do not marry him. And so, like, I think it was three days before I got married the day before

my birthday. Me and my friend, my brother's best friend, went walking and, and, and, and, and, He grabbed my hand and, like, he saw me and he looked at me. He was like, don't do it. Don't go through with it. Don't get married. And I'm like, it's too late. Like, we've already planned it. I've already bought the dress.

I would disappoint everybody at this point. Like, I have to do it. Like, I lost my virginity of this person. I have to marry him. And, you know, he's like, he was, he seemed heartbroken. He was just like, but I thought me and you were going to, you know, be it. I thought we were going to be together. I thought, you know, we were.

soul maids. And he had even put in his Bible, like there's a quote in the Bible that says something like, your wife being pure or whatever, and he had wrote my name on it. But then he crossed it out and wrote his girlfriend's name. But so, yeah, he was begging me not to get married. And I told him I didn't have a choice at this point. I had to get married. I had to follow through with it. So I did. And two days after my 16th, birthday. I got married. And we had moved in with his mom. And he had a brother and a sister. And I had gotten my license a little bit after I had gotten married. I hadn't even had my license yet. And I had gotten a marriage certificate. And my dad is actually the one who drove me to

the courthouse to sign my papers because he's just like, well, this is really what you want to do. Like he didn't step in and be like, oh, what's going on? Or why are you doing this? And he was just like, okay, well, you know, he was also going through his own stuff. And he was always saying my mom was crazy and my mom was this and just making me really resent my mom at that point where I'm just like, I feel like I put all the blame on her and didn't put any on my dad whatsoever. So and she was just constantly saying your mom's crazy or whatever. You don't want to be like her whenever you grow up. And that was like something. And that was a paranoia.

I mean, like, oh, God, I don't want to be crazy like my mom. But yet, my boyfriend was constantly telling me I was crazy when I tried to share my feelings. And that started, you know, young. So, yeah, I get married and I continue with school. I'm not pregnant or anything, you know. We were very careful about that. I remember at church one time after we were married. I got kicked out of, this broke my heart because I was in young women's and you're supposed to stay in young women's.

And it's like the youth group there is so fun because we do so many fun things. We have dances and we get to participate with all these things. I got kicked out whenever I got married. So I wasn't allowed to be in young women's anymore. That broke my heart. But I got to hang out with college age kids. So that was kind of cool because I grew up so fast. Yeah.

So basically I went from my sophomore year of high school to the summertime when I got married. And then I go to school as a junior married. And that was just wild to a lot of my friends. And I lost a lot of friends during this time because I was like, he was isolating me at this point. So a lot of my friends just kind of disappeared. I didn't talk to my even siblings that much. So I didn't really have anybody except for my husband at that time.

So within like, I think it was six months of being married, there was a time that I lost my keys. And he was yelling at me a lot. Like, you're so stupid. I can't believe you lost your keys. You're an idiot. And that was the first time that he had punched me. So that's when it started getting physical. It hadn't been like physical abuse yet.

It was just like manipulation, gaslighting, the sexual abuse and all that. But then it became physical all of a sudden. And that's like when things I guess kind of started becoming real. But like it kind of woke me up a little bit. Like what the heck? That wasn't cool. The other stuff was harder for me to see. I just associated from it.

But this was like, what the heck, man? That wasn't cool. So I finished school. He ended up moving in with his dad whenever my senior year of high school. A lot of it's kind of a blur, to be honest, being married to him. But he ended up moving in with his dad three hours away. And I stayed back and moved in with my dad for a few months. And we lived apart. And then I graduated from high school. And then I moved to Charlotte where he had moved to. And that's whenever, like the day, pretty much the day that I moved over, they. is when I got pregnant. I was 17. So I got pregnant with my first child at 17. And at this point, I'm still not doing okay, but I can go back to church again. So I at least had my faith again because I wasn't going to church anymore because I was like, I'm not living a worthy life. I don't deserve to go to church. I'm not worthy enough. And but when I got pregnant with my son,

like my outlook on life completely changed. Like I had a reasonable at that point. And I had a I had a reason to fight. I had, I had, like, I had a purpose. And that's when I stopped self-harming and thinking about, you know, unaliving and everything, because he gave me purpose. Like, my son gave me purpose. So I was barely 18 whenever I had him. But it was still very toxic. And because at this point, we were living alone, the physical abuse got really bad. where he would, like, start, even while I was pregnant with my son, he would, like, knock my head into a window or knock me to the ground and kick me in the side. And he was very addicted to porn.

So usually he would watch porn and rape me afterwards. and it was usually like pretty bad. And then, or he would beat me and then right me. It was like he just got off on that kind of stuff. And that was like a few years of my life. And then I think after I had my son, six months later, I'm pregnant again. So that's when I got pregnant with my daughter. And I was 19 when I had her.

And I started, like, seeing even the way that he was treating, like, my son, my son had a broken car and he went over to his dad like, hey, can you fix her? I couldn't fix it, so I asked him to go ask his dad. And his dad was always just playing video games and just kind of ignoring us. He didn't give a crap about us, basically. So I sent him over there to fix the car, and he had caused his dad to die in his game. And he started yelling at my son and not just, like, send me over there. edge. I'm like, uh-uh, you aren't going to treat my child that way. That's not okay. And then with my daughter, I'm like, I can't keep my daughter in this because I don't want her to think that this is

okay. And at that point, I'm on message boards on Baby Center and talking to other people that belong to the church, but they live far away. And I'm like putting like, hey, I'm terrified for my life. my husband's starting to kill me a lot. And, you know, just like, but what happened was somebody had found where I lit, or like the ward that I was in, the church that I was in, and they had contacted them and told them that, like, hey, this person is afraid. So they had contacted my dad. And my dad had called and was like, Kristen, are you okay over there?

And I'm like, oh, I'm fine. I'm fine. And my car was broken down. I was like, well, my car is broken, so I can't go anywhere. And I'm kind of stuck. and he's like oh well let me fix your car and that's like when i packed up my car one day and left and i was even like i even left because he had an affair and he had found out or he admitted to me that he had an affair and i was and that's like semi over the edge i'm like well what the heck

so like you do everything else to me that was the one thing that i didn't think you would do i didn't think you'd cheat on me because i didn't even know about the first time and he did so i'm like i'm out And he was nice about it because he was trying to play nice so I would come back, you know, and he just let me go and I moved back in with my parents. And I was 20 at this time. A lot of that is very much a blur. Like I don't have the memories. I just remember being beaten quite a bit.

So I got my car fixed and I decided to leave. And whenever I left, I had moved, my first friend came back around. My brother's best friend came back around. And, like, he was there to pick up the pieces where I wasn't okay. I was, I was, like, he saw that I was struggling, and he was there for me during that time. Like, he was my protector. And even my ex-husband, my first ex, would, like, stalk me and follow me. And he would still rape me.

There was even a time whenever I was started dating my second husband, where he was like, you can't, I can't pass you over to him unless you have sex with me first. And so I did. Like, I was like, okay, well, so it's like he would still stalk me and do this. But then my husband came in and protected me and was there for me during that time. And it was like, and even during that marriage, I went through that time being like, I married the wrong person. Like, he even begged me not to marry him and I still did it.

I married the wrong person. Like, he was, my soulmate was right in front of me. and I picked the wrong person. And I hated myself so much for it. And he came in like this night and shining armor. And I have these two kids. And he was always telling my brother that he wanted to date someone with kids. And I'm like, well, sweet.

Because, you know, like, we were, he always, like, just loved me whenever I was younger and everything. So he was really there for me and he was really good with them. Like, he was really good with my kids. He played with them and talked to them and just, like, was the father that they didn't have. He was everything. Like, he was so kind. And he was just, like, my savior at this point. And then so we start dating.

And it's, it's, all the red flags were there. But like I said, I didn't know red flags. And he was my best friend growing up. So, you know, we dated for about a year. And during that time, like, he would break up with me and disappear. disappear for a few weeks and go see his ex-girlfriend or something and then come back. And I was just like in this very low point in my life. And he was just the only person that seemed like he cared because my parents didn't help me out of that first marriage or anything. Like, nobody was there for me during that

time. My mom didn't even live there whenever I moved back into her house. I was still very much alone. So he was my person and he just kind of took me in and took my kids in and was like everything that I needed in that time. And so we dated for a few years and it was off and on and it was now looking back very toxic now that I now that I'm more aware of what healthy is. But we ended up getting married. We were both, he's still kind of young. I was 23 when we got married. I think he was 26. So I guess not too too young, but still young. Getting married in the Mormon church is like, huge whenever you're young. So we get married. And like, and it's, it's great. We, we don't really fight much because I don't really have a voice. I have no boundaries. I, like, I lost on my

boundaries long ago, if I even ever had any. So he's just, like, has free reign of whatever. And I am just kind of, he's my person. I love him. So we, after two years of being married, he unexpectedly came to me was like, I just don't feel emotionally connected to you, so we need to get a divorce. And this was like two years. And we had just gone back from a vacation, a family vacation, where it was so much fun. And we like went to the beach. We were at Myrtle Beach and had a great time there. And then after two years of marriage, and then he suddenly was like, oh, I don't want to be with you anymore.

So I'm like, oh, okay, that was devastating. And he had actually joined the church at this point. So he wasn't a member of the church. but I was finally active again. And he knew that how badly being sealed or being married in the temple for time and all eternity was huge for me. So he ended up joining the church. But yeah, so like after two years, he's just like, I'm done. I'm, I want out.

So I'm like, oh, okay. And that was devastating. So two months we were separated. Like, we were separated during our second anniversary. And he came back and was like, you know, I made a mistake. I slept with my ex-girlfriend and someone that I had issues with before. And he never respected the fact that, like, you know, it makes me uncomfortable, it makes me jealous or whatever. Like, he didn't care about my feelings at all.

And I just kind of had to, if I had an issue with something, it was always my problem, and I just needed to deal with it type of attitude. And I was just so used to that. and it was my normal. So, you know, it was my problem that I, and he would always blame every single time something bad, like every time I would have a negative opinion or, or trigger or whenever I would because I had bad PTSD at this point. So if he would trigger that PTSD or that dissociation or something like that, he would blame it on my ex. Like everything was my, my first husband's fault for 20 years. So he comes back after two months of the separation, and I wasn't going to take him back, but I was going to church, and he had came back and was like, hey, I want to go to church with you.

And, you know, he was doing all the right things, saying all the right things. And then he was like, let's save money so that we can move across country. Because we were in North Carolina at this time. So he was like, I want to. I want to go start somewhere new. And this was a way, I was already isolated anyways, even around my family. But this was another way to just isolate me. So we ended up moving to Oregon. We saved up for a year and moved to Oregon. And he was great stepdad to my kids, I felt like. But, you know, I didn't know healthy and I didn't understand it. And I was very blind and dissociated

from so many things that I'm still trying to come to terms with and forgive myself for. It's like 20 years of my life is a blur now that I'm awake and realize how to associate it I was even during this marriage because it wasn't physical. His abuse was very psychological. It was very emotional. And I didn't see it. I didn't know it. I didn't understand it.

So, you know, even our 10th wedding anniversary, he invited this couple who I didn't even get along with, really, because the wife was constantly messaging my husband and making me fall uncomfortable. I even saw, like, there was one time I decided to read their messages, and he got so mad at me because he watches his computer like a hog. Like he can, he'll sit at work and he'll have it open. And if anybody touches his computer, he'll see it. Like he'll see, I think he sees the mouse moving something. I don't know. He's really, he's like a computer genius. But, like, he saw that I was trying to read those messages.

And one of them was, like, she had wrote something like, like, I had a dream that Kristen, that Kristen's trying to beat me up because she thinks that we're having an affair or whatever. And she was like, bitch, I don't want your man or something. Just like the way that they talked about me behind my back was just not okay. So, yeah, it was just a lot of psychological abuse in me just numbing my feelings for a very, very, very long time. I ended up having three more kids.

within five years of our marriage, I had my son. And then two years later, I had my twins. So I have five kids now. And we're living in Oregon. I'm very isolated. I was going to church still for a long time. And then suddenly he decided that he was leaving the church. And that was devastating to me because the church was huge for me.

I loved the religion. And it's like when he left the church, he completely changed, but he didn't. He finally was just letting me see who he really was as a person. And he wasn't faking it anymore at this point because he had told me like he never believed in the church. He just was going for me or whatever. But to be honest, I feel like the Mormon church holds a lot of people that are predators. and like them young.

And I think they're just like, I feel like now that I'm, now that I've left the church and I've come out of it and everything, like seeing that they will dip 12 to 17 year old kids in a bath on a pedestal inside the temple by old men, like I'm just like, this church is. And they're okay with. people getting married, it's so young, I just feel like it's so sex trafficking, and all of it is just, I just have a completely different view of that religion. But when he left, it devastated me. And he was, it got, it got to the point where he was very, um, very psychologically abusing me at

that point and just like, just making me feel stupid for still believing in it. And eventually, I, I stopped going at some point. And I was, I started when, my twins and my, when they were young, I started posting on YouTube. I started filming like cleaning videos. It's all I had time to do. I was like, you know, a cleaning guru is like a Mormon thing to do, you know, start trying to make money. And I was feeling like I wasn't living in a healthy place at that point. I had, this was like 10 years ago or so. I started, I found Dr. Romney on like narcissistic abuse. I started and I had read every single basically chat, parenting book there was out there. I was huge on like healing and everything, but I never wanted to

admit even that I had anxiety myself. So at some point, I guess it was 2020, 2020, you know, the year everybody wakes up, I guess. During this time, I was, I was building my channel. I was starting to work with companies and make money and earn myself. And I'm like, you know, maybe I can actually at some point leave this marriage because I didn't feel like it was healthy for me. And I started recognizing the red signs and the psychological and emotional abuse that I was enduring. How long were we going to together at this point? It was 15 years. A long time. Yeah. Yeah, we had been together 15 years. And it's not like all the time was bad. We had so many good times. But whenever it was bad, it's like it was like he was a different person. So it's like I didn't know this person at all.

He completely showed me what I wanted to see at all times, would tell me exactly what I wanted to hear at all times, but he wasn't even that person. Like he just knew me so well that he knew exactly what to say. He had known me since I was four years old. He knew the right things to say to me at all times to get me to just let him do whatever he wanted so he can go to these concerts with these people.

He made fun of me whenever I made my YouTube channel. He made so much fun of me and just thought it was stupid. I didn't even tell him the first few months. Eventually I started growing and I started like getting money. And that's when he decided he wanted to jump in and kind of take over my business. So he started trying to tell me how to change my thumbnails and how to film my videos and started buying things for me to promote. And then he started making furniture because I wanted to start repainting furniture and kind of decorate the house and everything.

But he's like, no, you can't do that. Like, you'll just mess up with a garage. So he wouldn't even let me, like, paint. Like, he kept me in a childlike mindset for years. Like, I felt like a child around him for a long time. And it's taken, it's like I'm 42 years old, but I still feel like I'm, like, a 16-year-old girl sometimes, you know. It's like, it emotionally sunsend me big time because of the way he treated me, the way he talked to me. It was just like, it's just like I was a kid.

that's just the way you treated me. Like everything I said was stupid. If I had anything intellectual to say to him, he would say, that doesn't make sense. That's stupid. Like if I'm trying to explain my feelings or what I learned from Dr. Romney or what I learned about psychology because for 10 years, I've been obsessed with learning about trauma and healing and psychology and just all the things. And he just like would just make me feel so stupid if I would communicate myself.

That's why I have such a hard time communicating. And I wasn't sure how I do on the show. just because communicating is so hard for me still. But he kept me in that mindset, like, where anything I ever had to say was just stupid. Like, I was just stupid. That's how he made me feel. So I'm working on these videos, and he jumps in, and he starts making all this furniture for me. And on my channel, everybody's like, oh, my God, he's such an amazing husband.

He's making all this stuff for you. it's great. And what he was doing was he had his co-worker friend who was a woman helping him make this furniture for me for my YouTube channel. And it ended up being that like he ended up making me this big couch. I made a big production of it on my YouTube channel. And I shared it. And two weeks later, he's like, by the way, I haven't loved you for three years. So I'm going to go be with my coworker. And he told me, he literally told me the day, my oldest son moved out of the house to go to college. Like, I'm like, he was like, how are you doing today?

I'm like, not great. Go easy on me today. And I think it's home from work and it's like, by the way, I'm in love with my coworker. And I'm done. And so it, I'm trying to, I feel like I'm cutting stuff out because I'm, I know I still have so much to share, but I want to get to the other stuff. So, yeah, I was like, same thing. Like after two years in marriage, it's just like all of a sudden I don't emotionally connect with

you, I don't love you or whatever, and just like gone like that. But yet the entire time he, like I saw no right. He pretended like you loved me the entire time. So it was very confusing to me. So it was like 15 years of marriage and then all of a sudden, no, I'm done. I'm going to go be with my coworker. So after a month of that, at that point, I was at a very low point because my children weren't doing okay. Like my three young, one of my boys who I've been trying to like get an autism diagnosed. I don't even know if it's that. He just has a lot of trauma because he was the child that would say no, the child that wouldn't listen to his dad because he is, he's, he's a truth teller. He helped me see the red signs. Like he woke me up, this child did. He's like,

the way that he's talking right now isn't okay. And he was telling me this at like four years old. Like this, this child of mine opened my eyes and helped me like learn more about abusive behaviors. manipulation and all that stuff. And he helped me to learn to set boundaries more. So during this time, I ended up going to therapy. That's when I started therapy. And it took me until the age of 38 to even tell my doctor, I think I have anxiety, but it's so much more than that. I have like severe complex PTSD. During this time, I get a letter, I get a message from one of his family members, and I'm not going to share because that's like her story. I get a message from her. and I've known her forever.

And she tells me something huge. And it was very unexpected because it was like it sent me into this downward spiral to where I was completely like, I was completely dissociated again. I was just like I, what it was though, it's not just association. It's a identity crisis where I'm just like I'm just like I'm not that person. I don't want to be that person. I don't want to exist anymore. And it wasn't like that I wanted to die because I have to be there for my kids. And that's like what has held me together all my life is that I have kids, so I have to be here. And that's like as soon as I got pregnant with my son, like, if I ever had any

suicidal ideation things, I'm like, no, my kids need me. I'm, I'm here for my kids. Like, they are my one top priority. So, like, my kids say me so many times, not even funny. But during this time, So he went, moved out within a month. I get this letter from his family member about something huge that he had done from his past. I didn't even know, like, his stories from his past. I didn't even know, like, the life that he had lived or the traumas that he had because he was very secretive about it, even though he was my neighbor and I had known him on my life.

Like, I didn't even know any of this stuff. It was so confusing to me to suddenly realize that, like, he had done something, to someone underage. And I had no idea because I thought they were close and it was very unexpected. And then he comes back and suddenly, like as soon as he realizes that she had reached out, he comes back and gets in my head and I'm not in a good place. Like I'm like completely identity is like stripped. I'm just like surviving for my kids at this point. And he's like, well, let's try marriage counseling and try to fix it and everything. So I'm like, I don't, I don't know what to do,

but I also hated the fact that I had my boys 50-50 because that was like, when they would go to their house, I was, I was not okay. And I just wanted my kids. I wanted my kids all the time. I love my kids. They're like everything to me. So he somehow manipulated and he would, totally deny this, but he manipulated his way back into the house. Like I got to at least stay in the

house and everything whenever he had left, but he had manipulated his way back in. And during this time, I was not myself, and he had gotten into my head. And I felt, I literally felt like I had, like, had an age regression where I was, like, really young again because of my DID. He was, he said that he was having a hard time performing or something. And that's why he went on and had this fair. He was like, oh, you know, midlife crisis type thing. And it was a mistake. You're the love of my life. You're this. And we started going to counseling. He started going therapy. I started going to therapy. We went to marriage counseling. And the marriage counselor was like loved him. He's very charismatic. He's like, like, everybody loves him. So she was like on, she often made me feel like I was a

problem that I wasn't forgiving him for the affair enough or that I was like, why am I, why is my PTSD so bad or whatever. Why am I constantly not okay? I was just like basically in survival. And during this time, he got into my head and he was like, well, I want you to know that it wasn't you. It wasn't you that made me do this. Like, you're beautiful. You're everything. I want you to feel empowered. So he started putting it in my head that it would be a great idea to start trying to meet up with other men. And he was like, I just want you to have this opportunity to, um, to start feeling like you're wanted. It's going to make you,

it's going to make you feel empowered and just amazing. So he started like putting all this stuff into my head about, about how my worth would be found by all these men wanting me. And he wanted me to start going to, like, the gym and try to meet people or go to the bar by myself and meet people and go home with them. And, like, the first time he had told me, he was like, he was like oh i just want to talk about fantasies and i'm like i'm like i'm like okay because like i mean honestly like what sex life was pretty boring for the most part because like we hardly

even ever had sex through our whole marriage and we had been together i think at this point like 16 17 years um so this is still around this is 20 20-ish time yeah yeah so it's like i think it was 2021 where like he he started having me listen to podcasts about hot wifing like that fantasy hot wife where you're you're you'll send your wife out and she takes videos of being with other men and never heard of that really yeah it's like it's like i didn't i had never heard of it either until he suddenly like brought it up one day so he had wrote a story about me being with he was like it's just it's just a story it's just a fancy we're just playing along with his fantasy and i'm like okay and at this point I'm just like following along because I'm just not okay and somehow he came back

into the house and I'm scared at this point I'm terrified of him because I don't know who this person is anymore because I just realized like my person is a total lie like he's a con man he's not the person he said he was all these years I don't know him but I was following along because this is what I do when I'm scared like I freeze and I fawn and I will pretend and act however you need me to if I'm scared of you. Like, I don't know how to stop it. That's why I isolate because I'm just like, anybody could get in my head and make me do whatever if I'm scared at this point. And it's terrifying to me. So he had, like, for six months, he was like sending me books, writing stories and during sex, like, he bought all these toys and he would name them all and he would, like,

pretend to be these different men and everything for like six months. It was nothing but. And I'm a sexual person. Like, I love sex. I, I, you know, I, I, I am, I, um, I, I, um, I, I, um, I, I, um, I, I, um, I, I, um, I, I, um, I, I, um, I, I'm, um, I, I'm, um, I, so it's, like, he really, like, and that's one thing that my therapist told me, like, the fact that, you can't think clearly whenever you're in that mindset, when, when you're, when you're, when you're, when you're, when you're, when you're, when you're, when you're, when you're, you're feeling sexual or whatever and someone's putting things in your head you can't think clearly and um she actually helped me realize a lot like for one that it wasn't my fault that i get married and i was 16 because my husband always blamed me that i got married when i was 16 and and you know i blamed myself and i lived with that shame for so long like um that i didn't pick him so he started wanting me to meet other men and um it started with just a fantasy and he promised like is just fantasy. I don't actually want this to happen. But like as the fantasy continued and everything,

like he would throw out new things. Like he would start posting things on Reddit. He would write these stories about me being with like two men or four men or something at once. And he started writing down all these little fantasies that he, little big fantasies that he wanted me to do. Like go be unicorn for a couple and go, um, um, I don't know. There's just a long list of, these different things that he wanted me to, that he wanted to check off of his fantasy bucket list of me. And I'm just like the perfect wife to just groom because I am like not even, I don't even know where I'm at mentally. I'm just not okay. And I'm just like all the, any time that I am present, it is me taking care of my kids because that's like, that's my thing.

But he is in my head whenever he's whenever, like at night and stuff and at night. It's like every single time at night, something's going on. Just like when I'm 16, I'm reverting back to my 16 self at this point. So I feel like I'm 16 or I feel like I'm four because I have trauma from back then, but I don't remember it. And he's just putting all these things in my head and I'm listening all these podcasts. And I start assuming that it's what I want to be doing, that this is the only way that I can feel empowered because my own husband doesn't want me. He doesn't, you know, so he wants me to go be with other men, so I might as well just go be with other men. And that, like, that mindset, like, it was real.

I don't, it was, it was, like, ingrained into me. It was grooming is what it was. Yeah. So he starts posting pictures of me on Reddit and, you know, starts, like, he starts making me watch, um, um, because of my past, I had never really watched porn before because of the PTSD for my first husband. So I had never watched, I didn't even like to watch movies. I had nudity in it.

Now I don't care. Whatever. I'm just like, I almost became a porn star, so whatever. I just, I don't care anymore. I don't judge. I'm just like, whatever, you know, make your money, man. Good through Jesus. Yeah, I am different.

I am completely different person now. Were you so religious at this point? I had, I had, I finally. had left the church, but I was still believed in it. Got it. Okay. So there was still that setback, but I was having a faith crisis. And that's like when he got in my head. I was having a faith crisis from the religion that I had loved. So I was just going through this. And then losing my family after 15 years, my marriage and having my boys 50% of the time. So it's like, you know, then all of a sudden

this exciting stuff starts happening. And I'm like, oh my God, he's giving me all this attention. Like he's acting like my best friend again. So the pictures he was posting of you, were you nude, were you clothed? Yeah, yeah. It was nude pictures. Okay. Yeah. So he was posting like nude pictures of me.

And he was, he put up cameras in all the rooms, including our bedroom. He said that he was like he would want me to perform for him while he was at work or whatever with our toys that he bought with all their names. And yeah. And, you know, there was a part of me that was just like, because I was so, because of my DID where I will become whatever you need me to become to survive. and that's what D.D. is for. Like, when you cannot survive through something, if you cannot survive through your lived experience, you completely dissociate from what you're living, and you become whatever your perpetrator needs or wants you to become. And that's what I did. So I thought that I was going in this like, yeah, let's do this, you know, whatever. It doesn't matter. My body is nothing. Like,

my body's destroyed anyways. What doesn't matter? So, like, there was one instance where we had talked to someone on Reddit and he wanted me to give him a blowjob while this guy watched us. And I did and it was exciting. It was thrilling. It was fun. I'm like, yeah, I'm so cool. You know, I was very much like not myself. But then like after, like, he was an asshole.

Like whenever I was done and everything and we got off the phone with this guy, like, I thought that he was going to come and take care of me or something afterwards. And then he was just like, man, whatever. You know, that was cool, whatever. And then he, like, just ignore me. And one of his biggest punishments is silent treatment. I have lived in silent treatment for basically 20 years. Well, I mean, even before then.

But through this entire marriage, if I would, if he did not like my opinion, he would silent, he would just, like, not talk to me for sometimes even a month. Like, I would go a month just, and I would go in my closet. I, like, literally would live in my closet and just, to hide from him whenever he was home because I didn't want to see him because he just like was so mean or he would just walk by me and pretend like I didn't exist, like not even communicate with me whatsoever. So it's like I lived in this weird world and I didn't have friends. I didn't have family. I had no one. I've been isolated. I've still isolated. But, you know, I just had no

one to talk to. And so when he was being like my best friend again and he was so excited about this new stuff that I was doing for him, it was like, I was alive. I was like, okay. I'm okay, I'm okay, you know, I'm living or whatever. And, you know, and don't worry, my kids are all fine doing this. I'm like, I am, I'm 100% always present for my kids. Like, that's, I dissociate so I can be there. Like, I have a, I have a person that steps in whenever I can't be present as my present cell. That is a mom figure. And that's one cool thing about D-I-D is, like when you dissociate, you can still, it's like a function. It's a functioning freeze, basically. yeah like that was just it it felt dirty it felt wrong it felt like I was used um during that whole thing but then like so he didn't so he started like talking like communicating with other people more than me and just like shutting me out again and I was getting the silent treatment and I was mentally struggling my PTSD was bad I was trying my best to not be hiding in the closet and um so eventually like he would start communicating with

me again and we would he would take it slow like every single time i would have a setback and my PTSD would get bad he would take it slow and then slowly start throwing the seeds back out there and he even admitted he even have like even on reddit he had put like oh yeah my my wife wasn't okay with it at first but i just kept planting the seeds or whatever like he even admitted that he was grooming it into me whether he knew how severe it was and that i wasn't actually okay with it i don't know because he just wouldn't listen to me but during this time also like whenever i would come to him and be like, I'm not doing okay. I don't know if I want to be doing this. Does this even sound like me as a person? Like, is this something that I would normally do? And he's like,

it doesn't. But during this time, he was also, he had never been like physical or anything. It's not that he got physical with me, but he started breaking down doors. And like 15 years of marriage, 17 years of marriage, he had never done that before. He never broken doors or yelled at me or whatever. And I mean, he's yelled, but not like to this extent. It started getting scary during this time whenever I would try to regress back to not doing this hot wiping thing like it started getting I started getting terrified and I have no escape I have no money I'm like a I've been a housewife I've been a housewife and I stopped filming on my YouTube because he completely like traumatized me on there with that what that girlfriend that he

had so I just like I was embarrassed on there and there's I had so much toxic shame like inside of me that I just stopped filming, I stopped working, I stopped doing a lot of things. I was just like living for him, basically, at this point, just like I was whenever I was 16. So he started wanting to reenact my 16-year-old self. He wanted to pretend to be my first husband during some of it, which was very traumatizing. I even, like, brought it up to my therapist. I was like, oh, yeah, we're trying to heal trauma. So he's like, he's wanting to act like this so that we can heal it because he says

he's a safe place and she was like wait what and that's when she's like Kristen like you got to leave and she um so she kept like so i just stopped commie i stopped telling her what's going on because i'm like i don't know what's going on i was just so confused i was so dissociated and just surviving so we get on oh i don't remember what's called there's like some kind of dating site that is four kink type things and i'm like totally four kings i don't really care But when it's consensual, you know. We got on there and we started talking this one guy and he was, I mean, he was sexy as hell, to be honest. He was hot.

But we started, I was like, hey, you think I'm cute? Okay. No, but so we started talking to this guy. And we meet him at a bar, and my husband leaves for a little bit of time, and we start making out. And it got kind of hot and heavy. And then, like, we separated. He went to his house place, and we went home, and my husband was like, how was I? I was like, oh, it was fun.

But then, like, the next day or a few days later, my PTSD started coming up. And I'm like, wait, okay, I don't know if that was okay, actually. Like, yes, it was fun during that time. but I don't know if this is really what I want to be doing. Like I need time to process. And but he didn't give me time to process. So on my 40th birthday, unexpectedly, I had no idea.

I had been drinking a little bit. I was new to drinking because I was Mormon. I couldn't drink all my life. So I was drinking a little bit. And then all of a sudden, like, he's acting anxious. And it's like late at night and we're in the side yard. And he's like looking over the gate. gate and I'm like, what's going on? So he went and he opened the gate and walks this hot guy.

And I'm like, what the fuck? That's unexpected. I'm just trying to celebrate my 40th birthday man. And he was like, I brought your birthday present. And I'm like, at this point, I'm like, well, I don't like to hurt people's feelings. I don't like people to go out of their way and do something. So I'm just, I'm just like, okay, I guess this is happening. And I didn't have time to think of process or anything. What did I have done? I don't even know. I didn't even have time to, you know, but, um, and this guy was really nice. Like, it wasn't odd on him. This was all my husband. Like, this guy was super nice. Um, but basically, like, my husband just sits down on a chair and just watching me and this dude, like, like, you know, making out and everything. And then at some point,

I was like, okay, I think I'm ready. Let's do this. You know, um, so, you know, I did agree. And, to it. But I wasn't mentally. I wasn't mentally myself. I wasn't mentally okay. So we end up having sex and my husband ends up joining and I mean honestly it was a lot of fun but then, you know, a few days later my PTSD comes back up. And when my PTSD comes back, that's when he gets like loud and that's when he starts telling me you can't communicate with me anymore. That I'm not worth even like a glance. Like you pretend like I didn't exist anymore. more basically. So it's like I just did something huge. Like I've been with the same person for 17 years. I've only been with two people other than the time that I was raped when I was 20. But, you know,

it's like it was huge and he wasn't there for me during that time. And I just needed like someone to be there for me because I'm like, I'm not my PTSD is so bad and I'm like reverting back to like 16 year old me and I'm suddenly terrified all the time. and instead of just like comforting me and be like, you know, oh, well, you know, maybe we pushed it too soon or whatever. He was just like, well, whatever, I don't care. I'm done. So he would just give me silent treatment. It wouldn't even communicate with me, but he would make me sit there and watch TV with him, but not talk to me, not touch me, not look at me.

So it's like I constantly felt like every time I've tried to revere back and be like, I don't want to be doing this. Like, I don't feel like this is safe for even our kids for me. I don't feel like this is safe for me. I feel like this is dangerous. I would get that silent treatment or that, like, I'm the problem. So it always made me go back to being like, okay, well, let's go ahead and do it. Like, it was very psychological to the point to where I felt like I had to do it if I wanted to feel loved.

But, I mean, I even know, like, looking back, I should have not even been with him anymore. I should have never let him move back into the house. But he just kind of came back. and I didn't know how to get him back out at this point. He was just trying to send me places to meet people. And I didn't let it get to that extent. And that's when I talked to my therapist. I finally, I went in really triggered one day

because he was just not talking to me or communicating with me. And I opened up to her the most that I had. And she was like, she was like, Kristen, are you sure he's not trying to sex traffic you? And I'm like, no, no, no, you know, because he was starting to try. to make money off of me. And he had his cameras up all over the house where I was constantly like on edge. He can see everything I'm doing all day long if he's at work. Even in our room, there was a camera. And it made me feel trapped and alone and just scared. And I had no one. So except for my therapist. So I finally was able to talk to her. And she said that word. And I got

online and I was like, sex trafficking, why for whatever? And I found her video. in your most viewed video and I'm like and I watched that and I'm like holy shit oh my God I don't want to get that bad because I was getting to that point where I was just allowing him to do whatever

he wanted to to me and just being silent about it because what's the point and when I bring it up it's just like silent treatment I have no money I have nothing like I'm stuck here I don't know what to do

I don't know how to escape well the thing is too I think he was making it pretty obvious that he didn't really care about you in the relationship at that point It was more so like to get off. It was like for his fantasies only.

And then as soon as it was over, it was like, yeah, you're not a big deal anymore. And honestly, like, it only makes sense that like because it had progressed from where it began. So like if somebody started offering money, I highly doubt he would say, oh, no, keep your money. You know what I mean? Because then it's like it's a win-win. He gets off and he gets paid for it. Yeah, exactly. Well, that's the thing.

He was like constantly wanting me to start like create my own pay. and post all the videos with all the men. Like he was having me watch other women that were doing this for their husbands and how amazing it was for them and how amazing their marriage is because we grew up in purity culture. So he wanted me to take care of that for him, basically, because his little porn star and just, you know, make my own little videos to send to him because he's having a harder time because of his own addictions and stuff like that.

But he was trying to make me become that person for. him. Yeah. And I was just always like this, I don't even like, I don't even like people. I don't even like to go to the bar. I don't like to communicate with people. And he's trying to suddenly make me go out and do all these things. And I'm like, you realize I hide from people. This is not me. This is scary. And I have five kids, you know, this is not who I am as a person. But he would always tell me that that was who I am. That is who I am because I was raised Mormon. That is just, you know, I'm just still trying to come, come to my true self. And that's me going and throwing myself to any man that wanted me, basically.

He was like, I want you to even be with someone who's 18 so that you can be their, you can be their first experience and train them or whatever. And I'm just like, that's weird. That's weird. I have kids older than that. Like, that's weird, man. No, I'm not going to do that shit. So it got to that point.

And then when I watched your video, like something just kind of clicked in me. And I went to my therapist again, and she was like, she helped me get a hold of a women's shelter. I contacted them, and they helped me move. Like, he didn't know I was moving or anything. He wasn't even communicating. He wasn't even talking to me at this point. I was getting complete silent treatment after that incident because I wasn't 100% okay with it. So I took half of our money from the bank and I grabbed our clothes and I found the place.

And it was really hard for me because I had to have a co-signer in most places. But I found like just some place an hour away in the woods. And I packed up my kids and I was like, we're moving. And he didn't know that I was leaving. And he was still like I've still very much trauma bond into this man because this trauma bond goes like in the childhood basically. But even before then, like he was trying to get me to enact these. traumas, even his own traumas and stuff. Like he had admitted to me that he was attracted to

underage kids and stuff at this point. And I had, like, at that point, I had erased all memories of the present day. I'm just like, I'm, I just felt like I was young because of my DID because I didn't want to see my present because I just realized what the fuck of my, I've been married to. Like, am I just, have I been a body this entire time? Like, I have kids. We have kids. And like, and, and I've, I had, I sent my kids in therapy and everything and they're, like, he didn't do anything to them. But like, he admitted this to me. And I had no idea. Yeah.

I had no idea. Because I grew up, that stuff was normalized. Like, you know, being attracted to, like, it was just normal. And it was just like, it was so unexpected. But that's when I just realized, like, I was only a prop from the beginning. Like you wanted someone with kids and what if my kids don't have memories, you know? Like that fear is there. And it's just like that shame of me being a mom and being so protective of my kids.

It's just like, what have I had in their life all this time? Like, I just like that mindset of like, and he wanted me to start performing like I was eight years old. And during some of these fantasies after a while, after like after the incident. like it started getting really bad um so i had moved out he he wasn't doing okay mentally at this point he was struggling with his own like suicidal ideations and stuff or at least that's what he was telling me you know kind of control tactics i don't know but he seemed like he was really struggling too because like i don't even know because there's still that part of me that's like he's not all bad but then what the fuck what do you do to me he is bad because what do he did to me and like

Like this person was my best friend for a lifetime. And I just like was so clueless and so like blind. I was so blind to everything. I just didn't see it. And I don't know if it's because my brain protected me from seeing it because of my DID or if it's like I don't know what it was. But yeah, I was able to move out. But during that time he was still in my head and he would still come over.

And it's like he would use any holiday to get back in my head. And like I said, I cannot control when someone wants me to do something. I will. I freeze and I fall when I'm scared of someone. So it's like I become whoever they want me to. So it's like I had to go completely no contact or this man would continue being in my head constantly. The therapy was helping me a lot to kind of try to figure out who I was as an actual person because I realize that like my entire life I've been following a church that supported

misogyny and the patriarchy. Like it was just huge. And I was just like the woman who was second class because of that church. And so it's like just like the teachings from that church from early childhood was so ingrained in me that I was just like I have to

I have to be whatever my husband needs me to be. So it's like I just followed along. And I just made no sense to me because whenever I was my present self, I'm like, I could bear it. really even remember what was going on. My memory was so bad. I, um, like, there's, there's, there's so much more to it that I'm leaving out because I just can't remember some of it. And I haven't quite processed it all yet. Um, yeah, it's still super fresh. Like, it's a long,

it was a long span of time, but all this still happened within the last, like, couple years. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And there was even, I think before I had moved out at this point, um, There was a, my therapist was like, you need to take two days because I never leave my kids or anything. So it's like, she was like, you need to take two days to yourself and go get in a hotel room and, you know, just be in your own head. And I did. So I went and I stayed in a hotel room and I didn't quite feel like myself. I felt like I was, most of my life feels like I've watched from a movie, like from third person. I feel like I didn't live it.

I feel like I was just like, you know, it just feels like an old black and white movie that I've watched pretty much the majority of my life. And that's what I'm trying to wake myself up from now. And that's like why coming here is so big for me because making my reality real. Because all of this lived experience to me was like I didn't live it. It was someone else that left it. It wasn't me. It was my parts.

It was my broken parts. It wasn't me. I think like you said too, you know, not only did you live so many different lives and go through so many different phases, like you went from, you know, being raised and taught to be a certain type of way and being taught that all of these things are wrong. Like sex is wrong and being touched is wrong. But then it's okay to like get married young and like it's okay for these older men to look at me and touch me. It's like it was so much like back and forth and contradictions, I feel like that it left you so confused. And like you said, like, I I mean, generally speaking, not everyone is going to be like an outspoken, strong person from the jump. Like, some people are more quiet and shut up and they freeze in, you know, uncomfortable or scary situations. Like, there's nothing wrong with that. Every human is different. Every human reacts differently.

Yeah. So, you know, you had all of those things happen. And then you go from that phase of life and being super religious and in that religion and following their rules per se. And next thing you know, you know, you're an adult. and you have five kids, but then you're also trying to just like please your husband and be the good wife. And then now you're almost like his sex dummy in a way and you're doing all these things that he's asking you to. And that's like I feel like it doesn't allow you to really figure out who you are or who you want to be because this whole, your whole life you've been

following the rules of other people. So how would you know who you are? You know? And I feel like you're still, like you said, you still very much are on this healing journey for yourself. And it probably it probably will take a while for you to figure out like, who am I? Who do I want to be? Because you spent more than half of your life, like, I feel like behind the curtains of other people that were abusive and weren't the best people at all by any means, you know? And something else I want to say, I know I kind of mentioned this before is like, I feel like obviously it's super normal to look back on things and have guilt and kind of feel like, well, what if, or I should have known or I should have seen it. But like that's not always the case. Like you don't have, like I said,

you don't have to validate or explain that to anyone. Like if you didn't see it, you didn't see it. And most victims that are in, you know, abusive relationships, whether it's physical, whether it's emotional, mental, whatever, like they don't see these things or they block out these things because they love someone too much or because they are naive to it. They weren't raised to. see red flags. They weren't raised to know like this is a problem, this is abuse. Like you had so much freedom in a way growing up. Like you're like you said your mom kind of just like let whatever happen that I feel like you didn't ever really have a adult figure saying this is wrong or be careful of this or be aware of this or you know these older men were just let into your life and placed

into your life to basically do whatever they wanted that from such a young age you were taught that it's okay to be touched and to be taken advantage of and I don't really have a voice. So you grow up without a voice and that makes sense because that's what you went through. But like looking back now, just because you are finally on your healing journey now and finally finding yourself now, that doesn't mean that you look back and you say like, oh, damn, like I should have seen those signs. Like you shouldn't have because you didn't know any better. Right. So I just want to let you know that.

Thank you. Of course. Because it's true. That's exactly what my therapist would tell me too. Because it's true. It's like you can't. And the thing is is no one can really relate to that. they can relate to you and who you were at those times of your life.

Like someone that is like might have like a different upbringing or a stronger backbone or might be more outspoken. They could easily look at you and be like, I mean, yeah, you should have recognized that or realized it. But like they can't relate to you or what you went through or what you didn't go through. So it's like it's two completely different stories. That's one thing that my therapist even mentions is like it was your normal. Like that's the normal for where you grew up.

Absolutely. And it's what you actually lived. because like, you know, I just genuinely thought that this person was really good with kids and everything. I didn't realize that he was like possibly having some kind of fantasy or whatever in his head during that time. Like he never acted or whatever, but I was just the body. And that was one thing that he always bragged about, like how young I looked and stuff. Even even whenever he would post pictures of me is like, my wife is 40, but she looks 20 years, something stupid. But like that kind of stuff was, you know, they were.

really becomes a point in your life where you have that awareness and you start seeing life for what it truly was. And a lot of people, I feel like that come from trauma. And I feel like so many, just about everybody comes from some sort of trauma or whatever. It has some kind of mental health issues. And they don't recognize because you are groomed from the beginning to believe certain things and certain aspects of life. And then as you're living it, you just don't see it because it's never pointed out to you to be something different or a red flag or anything and you know i just i felt so stupid during that time and i took like i blamed myself i had so much toxic shame because of that but my therapist has been working with me on that like you know a lot which has been great but um

but there's still that like self-hatred that i just like and and this distrust in all people i just like i don't trust people. I just would rather be at home with my cats and my kids. I feel that. Because like I'm just, no, people are just scary. Right. And that's, I completely agree with that for sure. And I think that you should always have boundary set for yourself and for your children. It's, it's a safety measure. You know, I don't think you can ever be too cautious. And as far as the religion thing goes, you know, I think that religion is a great thing for people when it can provide a sense. of community and I think that it can really help people out of a dark place at times and it can help people live a very organized, rule-based life in a way. But there's very scary sides to religion.

And I think that, you know, like even the documentary I was saying I was watching about, it's the FLDS, right? Like that and, you know, even what you were saying, it's like going back to what you said there's no reason why, in my opinion, no matter what religion or what you believe, that a young girl, whether you're a young girl or you're a 25-year-old girl or a 30-year-old woman, there's no reason why you should be explaining to another man, like, the sexual things that are happening in your life. That's personal. That shouldn't, you should never feel like, oh, I did something wrong.

So now I have to confess these sins to, you know, this praised prophet bishop man. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's just those things to me are just twisted and weird and no boundaries and an invasion of privacy and everything in between. And like I said, that's not to say that all religion is bad. And it's not to say that there aren't some good people that just genuinely follow these rules because they want to be the best version of themselves. Yeah. You know, people believe what they're going to believe.

But there's, I feel like as much as there's good, there's just as much bad, if not worse. And even on the show especially, I feel like I've had so many people come on where. the religion was more like a cult or, you know, there were so many just sexual things involved that are so not okay and disgusting. But when you're raised that way, you don't know any different. And there's so many times that, you know, that sets your standards. When you're taught that at such young age and you believe something so much and you become so attached to these religions, it sets the standard of like who you're supposed to be per se, you know? And I just think that it's a very scary thing for so many different reasons.

It prevents you from having boundaries. It prevents you from having a voice. It prevents you from any sort of privacy. And fortunately, I feel like you're now seeing the clarity, but there's a lot of people that don't ever see that clarity. And then it's like this repetitive generational cycle. And then it's passed down to their kids and their kids and so on. And then even, unfortunately, it could be neighbors or friends.

And it's just, it bleeds into other people's lives and it can become very, very scary and toxic. And I just think that I'm glad that you spoke about the religion aspect of it. Because obviously, like you said, it was a huge part of your life. But it just goes to show how that can just also be so twisted and toxic as well because it really can be. Yeah. And it's scary. And that's like one thing that the church teaches, like, don't talk about what happens in the bedroom. Don't like, you know, don't talk.

Unless it's with your bishop, you know. You can go to your bishop and share all the dirty little secrets or whatever. And that's one thing that's really cool because that new reality show came out of the Mormon wives or whatever. And watching that, I'm just like, oh, my God. Like, it's so eye-opening to, first of all, how young all these 20 to 30-year-old women are acting. You know, they're all like super judgmental and jealous of each other or whatever. and a lot of them are in toxic marriages. And it's just like, that is our church.

The church is like, that's not a right representation of our church. But I'm just like, that's what I lived. And I was 100% a Mormon wife. Like, I was 100% silent and didn't tell. Like, I would go to the bishop whenever I was struggling with my husband or whatever when I felt like it was kind of abusive or something. And he would just tell me, you know, oh, well, pray about it, pray more and do better. Do better for your kids, you know, have, um, it was always put on

the women. It was like, even like, um, we are taught not to wear anything revealing. We have to wear like garments that go to our knees and that cover our shoulders and stuff because we are too tempting. So like even they blame anything that happens to a woman on the woman, not the man, because the man is just a man, you know, or the boy is just a boy. They're just going to do whatever. But that's just like, first of all, they're damaging the men by teaching them in that because they're not like teaching them like women are, women are people. They have feelings.

They actually matter or whatever. They're just spreading this, like they're making it okay to blame the women. Like everything is the woman's fault. If you get touched, it's your fault. if you do this, it's your fault. Like, it just kills me. And that's one thing that I saw on that show, too. It's just so, I don't know if you watched it or not.

I haven't yet, no. Yeah. And so, but yeah, it's very eye-opening for me. It caused a lot of PTSD flashbacks, that's for sure. But the men and they're, like, very misogynistic because of the patriarchy. It's, like, huge. And I don't disreligion either or anybody else's belief. Like, I have 100% believe that.

that absolutely every person is at their own state in life. And that church was always very judgmental, and that was just never the type of person I was. So I was just always kind of the outcast of the church. So it's like I was very, I loved it and everything, but I could never make friends. I could never hold friends or whatever. I was just always alone.

And then I just got silent because why communicate with anybody? Why even communicate with my bishop? because you're just going to tell me to do better, pray more. It didn't help me. It just made me feel like, okay, well, I guess I just got to go home and continue what I'm living then because that's what I'm taught to do. That's what I'm told to do. So now you're no longer part of the church, obviously, right?

No. And then as far as your second husband goes, are you still just doing the 50-50 with the children? We are right now, yeah. Yeah, like there was, so the time that I went with. my, when my therapist asked me to go to take those two days to myself. Like, I didn't feel like myself. I felt like I was definitely, like, just another part of me was taking over that just want to control.

Like, yeah. So I stay in a hotel and I went to a bar and I wasn't going to do anything, but this one guy walked in and like, so basically I did something that I had never, ever in my life before, done before. And because I had had no control of my life whatsoever, I felt like for forever. And even the last, like, I had been with my husband for how long? And then he just invited another man to be with me. And it felt like, oh, God, this just feels like any other time I've ever had sex. I guess I've never had sex. And it'd be love ever, because it just felt like whatever. It just felt like another one of those instances. So I went to that bar and I started, this one

guy came over to me and he was also hot. Sorry. I'm such a dork. But still, it wasn't me and it just felt weird. But in that moment, it felt like me. I felt like I was trying to take control of my life or just like take something that was mine, take my body back, I guess. And it's not the best way to do it.

I isolated for a year because of this because I was so scared of what I did. But anyways, start talking to this guy, we started dancing. And he asks, me, you know, if I wanted to hook up. And I'm like, yeah, just come back to my hotel room. So I had my first one night stand at like 40 years old. And it was really wild to me because, yeah, I was. And, you know, my husband loved it. He was just like so excited about it because we were, we were separated at this point. But anyways, he just wanted all the details or whatever. But yeah, so there was that. And that's when I started realizing that, that, that's,

That's when I started realizing that I had the ID, that I become whoever I need to be whenever I'm scared. And that's when I started being able to really tap into my healing and recognizing that if I'm not in a safe environment, then my brain is going to shut out. Like if I'm living through trauma, my brain's going to shut it out. Like that's a protective mechanism that you learn to do in chat. Like, you usually get this from before the age of seven. And that's when I started recognizing, like, okay, I need to figure out who I am as a person with no influences whatsoever.

So I isolated for like a year other than him coming and getting in my head every so often, but I was still like really just starting to set my boundaries. And he hated that. He did not like my boundaries. So eventually he found his replacement. And I was okay with that because I'm just like, yeah, because I can't be. with you and I feel like I can't stay away from you because I don't have control of it. I feel like it can't control whatever. Well, part of you I think identifies with him because he was in your life for so long.

Yeah. Like he was, I still like sometimes feel like he was my best friend and it's just like so confusing to me that he did this to me knowing that I wasn't okay that I was really like like it kills me and he just like and instead of comforting me or being like, you know, yeah, we'll step back or hold back or whatever, you know. maybe, maybe I could have become his perfect hot wife. I don't know, but he didn't even give me that time and space to even process what had happened to me because I was reliving so much trauma.

I was causing so much PTSD and I just wasn't myself. And so yeah, now we are, you know, co-parenting or whatever. We were no contact for a long time because I just didn't feel safe enough to be able to communicate with him or whatever. But ultimately, I mean, it seems like he's doing good with the co-parenting and he seems happy with his new relationship and I am just like you're on your healing and constantly isolating and and and um avoiding all people and don't be hard on yourself because you know like you're it's never too late to start healing you know but you have like

years and years to sort through so I wouldn't be hard on yourself at all if you have days or weeks that you feel like you're set back a little bit like but you're not like as long as you're taking the time to work on yourself and constantly find yourself and pick yourself back up and be there for your kids, which you said you've been doing, you know, and you can tell how much you love your kids, you know, and that's the most important thing to you. You know, so that's what you need to focus on. That's your priority and that should be all that matters to you right now. Yeah, I even, um, um, I'm kind of living in a toxic situation right now that I'm trying to get out of, um, but I had someone yell at me the other day because they were trying to

control me, that I am the worst mother in the world or whatever. And I'm not in a relationship. It's actually, it's my daughter's boyfriend. So I set a great example for my daughter and now I'm, you're okay. But even my ex was like, you were the best mother I've ever, I've ever seen. So don't let anybody get to your head. Even though he used to tell me all the time, because I would be like, you're doing parenting wrong. I would correct him if he was being like controlling or whatever, because he was very abused as a child. So I would like point it out. And he's, he's, he's listened a lot. But usually he would get, like, you know, he would, he would, um, get upset with me, whatever. I would point out something toxic that he was doing. I was like, we just

have to unlearn it. We learn this stuff in childhood. We just got to unlearn it, you know, because we're, we're growing. But yeah, even, even just the other day, he was like, you're an amazing mom. Yeah. Don't even, don't even do that. So I just feel like a lot of times I felt my kids because of the fact that I didn't see what abuse was. I didn't know what it was. I didn't understand it. My dissociation and everything. You can't go back.

You can't go back in time. And you're working on yourself now. And if you, you know, you, if you continue to look in the past and feel guilty and blame yourself, it's going to prevent you for being able to move forward. And you don't need that. That's like, that's old news. You don't need that. You're right.

You know? But, of course, you're going to have days where you feel. like upset with yourself and feel like you're you're backtracking but that's normal everybody feels that way but you can only stay like only let yourself stay there for so long like you can't stay there and get stuck you can have those thoughts but you got to remember okay but like let me snap back into reality this is where I am now this is the path I'm on and I'm past all that like I need to start moving forward for myself and everything in between yeah you know so but Don't do that to yourself.

Okay. It's fine, you know? We can only do so much. But if you keep beating yourself up, it's just like, we are our own worst enemies. And you, like, you can't afford to be that to yourself. Yeah. I think, like, my biggest part was the fact that I had so much trauma and didn't realize it. I was just like, I don't want my kids to have trauma ever.

Right. So I was, like, so protective, in a sense. And that makes sense. And it makes sense because of what you. you went through and what you felt that you are going to be harder on yourself and you're going to beat yourself up for it but you just you just can't yeah and it's like it sounds so like simple and I know it's not but like you have to keep reminding yourself like I am on my healing journey now and I need to keep pushing forward and anything that happens like all you can do is

face it today and handle it as you would as the woman you are today that's it you know I love that Thank you. I'm like, I feel like I'm finally finding out who I am since I was like there for everybody else for so long. Even my kids, like my life was dedicated to them. And you owe that to yourself. I never had an identity of my own because my identity was my kids. Yeah.

So now I'm like, well, my kids are getting older so I can finally find the authentic version of myself and have time to work on talents and, you know, stuff. I didn't have time for that because I was always the only person that was taking care of the kids. Right. But now, you know, things are changing. It's time for you. Now I'm doing something selfish and I came here. So I was going to say, and that takes, like I told you, it takes so much strength and

vulnerability and a lot of courage to open up and tell the parts of yourself and the parts of your life and experiences that you aren't the most proud of and that do scare you still. You know what I mean? That's not an easy thing to do. So you should be proud of yourself. And it is a huge part, I think. in, you know, owning your truth and owning your past and knowing that it's there, but also knowing that you can conquer it and now find who you are today and set those boundaries for

yourself and for your future. And that's all you can do. So, but you did incredible. Thank you. You should be so proud of yourself. Thank you. Of course. Was there anything else that you wanted to include? Are you think you got it all? I think I think I'm good. Okay. You did amazing.