We're All Insane - From Gang Member to Stanford Graduate

Episode Date: December 9, 2024

#podcast #prison #transformation #education Head over to Manscaped.com and join the over 11 million men worldwide who trust MANSCAPED® by using code INSANE for 20% off + free shipping. Exclusive $35-off Carver Mat at AuraFrames.com. Use code [INSANE] at checkout to save! In this powerful video, we follow the incredible journey of Paul, an ex-gang member who grew up surrounded by violence and hardship, spent time in prison, and ultimately turned his life around. Through determination, resilience, and a commitment to change, he defied the odds and is in the process of earning his degree from one of the most prestigious universities in the world—Stanford University. This inspiring story shows that no matter where you come from or the mistakes you’ve made, it’s never too late to rewrite your narrative. Watch as Paul reflects on his past, the lessons he learned, and how education became the key to his transformation. Paul’s Links: YouTube: paul_calvo25 Instagram: paul_calvo25 If you have a unique story you'd like to share on the podcast, please fill out this form: https://forms.gle/ZiHgdoK4PLRAddiB9 or send an email to [e-mail] Business Inquiries please contact: [e-mail] Topics: Gangs, Prison, Transformation, Education, Redemption Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, it's me DeVora. I just dropped an all new bonus episode inside my new subscription channel, We're All Insane Plus. This week's bonus episode is called My Brain was Slipping into my spine. Listen now by subscribing to We're All Insane Plus inside your Spotify or Apple Podcasts app or go to We're All Insane.com. My name is Paul Calvo. I'm originally from Fresno, California.

But I'm currently living at the campus of St. Stanford University, or I should say on the campus of Stanford. And today I just want to, you know, kind of go over some, go over some things. I have been thinking a lot about today just because I don't want to sit here and like glorify my prison life, my gang life. I'm originally from Fresno, California, part of a very, the biggest gang there. It's called the Fresno Bulldogs. And I feel like my rough childhood, which I'll start with that and then kind of trickle into how that shaped my teenage years, which then led to prison. You know, I'm glad you're giving me free reign on speaking,

because I just feel like those that can benefit the most from this won't be active gang members that are still involved in that. Because I remember when I was like 16, 17, even in my early 20s, if you had someone, like, try to speak to me about changing my life, I would have been like, yeah, you're tripping, you know, like, leave me alone. So I want to highlight how, someone can go from the gang life to prison and how they can use those same skills, but on the other side with education and networking and finding a job and just making something

out of your life. Like I said, my childhood was very rough. My childhood was very rough. My dad, he's from Mexico. My mom, she's, her dad's from Mexico as well, but she was, she was born here. She's, you know, first generation on her side. But my dad was that typical traditional Mexican man, you know, where you don't cry. You beat the weakness out of your son, right? Like it's very like you just show no emotion. And so growing up, I want to say maybe around five or six, he and his friends, whenever they would get together and they would start drinking, they would make us fight. you know, me in the, you know, sons of my dad's friends. And so one, there's, there was one particular

time that, you know, my dad and his friends made us do this, like, almost like little miniature gladiators, you know. And, and the kid that I would fight was, I don't know, maybe about eight or so, he was about two or three years older than me. And I ended up losing the fight. I lost every single fight, you know, because I just didn't know what I was doing. Were you ever scared when they would make you fight or it was kind of just, okay? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So it wasn't something that you found like fun or enjoy it?

No, I would hate it. I would hate it. And I knew, too, because at the time I would work with my dad. So we either worked in the fields or we would work, you know, painting houses. And I always knew when we would go to his house because there was a liquor store around the corner from his buddy's house. And I knew if we hit that liquor store, we were going to go to his friend's house right afterwards, right? And, you know, at that time, my dad was a heavy alcoholic. Like, he drank every day.

And surprisingly, he would wake up at five in the morning every day to go to work. Impressive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the Mexican in him, I guess. And so I knew every time, and I knew, okay, I was going to have to fight. And so I hated it. Like it just, you know, I was super anxious. I would get knots in my stomach, right?

I just didn't like it because I knew I would get beat up. And this one particular night, my dad, you know, we're out there. And I can already hear them drinking and talking about, oh, my son, this, my son, that. And so I knew I was like, oh, it was just a matter of time before we had to fight. And so they end up making us fight. I end up losing, like always. and my dad gets pissed. So I'm thinking, like, he picks me up and he just starts dragging me,

like, not dragging me, literally, but like, he's holding me by the collar, and I'm, like, walking with him. But I'm expecting him to, like, hit me or do something, right? To, like, I don't know, to show me that he's upset that I lost. But instead, he calls me Marikon, right? And that's basically Spanish for faggot, you know? Like I said, he was that old school Mexican. skin, you know, your son has to be tough at all times, right? It doesn't matter how old he is.

And so that night, you know, then he, after, as he's taking me to the truck, you know, he locks me inside the truck and I just stay there all night until it's time to go home. And I remember just being like, like, I would welcomed, I would have welcomed the, like, a hit or something, you know, something physical from him. Right. Versus him calling me Marikon, you know. And, and I feel like that was a pivotal. moment in my childhood because then from there it was always like it was always me turning into like this vengeful rageful little kid whenever there was like an altercation or anything that I thought was going to lead to an altercation with another person yeah and so elementary school I got

into a lot of fights um which isn't surprising right and if your parents found out about the you getting into fights in school, would you get in trouble for that? Or was it not like that? So no, no, because I found a loophole. Like I said, my dad was from Mexico. He didn't speak any English at the time. And so I either had to say, you know, well, dad, this kid was making, you know, disrespecting mom. Right. Or I had to say that the kid called me like a beiner or a weptack or something racist. And then it was like, oh, okay. Whether it was, whether it happened or not, it didn't matter.

That was the excuse. Got it. That was the excuse. So as long as I said that, you know, all was, was well. And there was, there was a moment, too, where, like, even my dad was kind of like, because I got into quite a few fights in elementary school. And even my dad was kind of like, dang, there must be like a lot of racist kids at that school. But there really wasn't.

And I just, you know, like I said, I was just using it as an excuse. So another effect that had on me with my dad, it made me very like, it made me very competitive in a way where I couldn't really do anything for fun. Like it always, I always had to do, there always had to be something on the line, you know. And I was, I did well in sports, cross country, track and field, and, and soccer. those were my my my my three areas that I track and field was really like you know 800 meter 400 it wasn't you know anything like long jump or it was mainly just you know the the running aspect and then also the soccer um and I did really well in sports really well and it was because I always had that

that drive you know I know it was a like a very negative and toxic way to like like a very negative and toxic way to like teach me that or you know have that implemented in my life but i i do see how it kind of served me some good later on in life uh and so i feel like it like pushed you to prove yourself yeah yeah yeah in all aspects in all aspects because then when i finally landed in juvenile hall because of fighting and and violent it's actually funny because this whole time leading up to you know juvenile hall i wasn't part of a gang i wasn't rolling around with anybody I just was this kid with a very bad temper who did soccer and cross country and all that, right? And so I'm now 14 and it's now no longer, you know, oh, you're suspended for two days, three days.

It's now, okay, you're going to juvenile hall. And because this was like the very early 2000s. It was like 2001 where in Fresno it was pretty much like if you get into a fight and it's pretty bad, then juvenile hall. And then juvenile hall from there, I got into. to unsurprisingly, I got into some fights in Juvenile Hall, but it was because the gang members would call me white boy. Because about two years before going to juvenile hall, my parents, or no, more than two years, about about four or five years before this, they moved to Clovis, which is right outside of Fresno. And it's predominantly a white town. Well, it was at that time.

and then from there they moved out to like the country outskirt area. I mean, now it's, you know, they're all, you know, it's a bunch of neighborhoods. But at the time, it was a country between like Clovis and Fresno. And so we were living out there. But because of that, the other Hispanic gang members would just be like, oh, you're a white boy, you're a white boy.

And I'm like, surprised because I'm like, you guys don't even speak Spanish. Right. I speak Spanish. My dad's from Mexico and you guys, you know, call me a white boy. And so that would always lead the fights because I just, I didn't like that. And this is where I feel like it's, it's somewhere where I can draw back to and point at this exact moment and say that is the beginning of this career, basically, in the gang life. Because it turned, it turned from them saying, oh, white boy, this, you know, that.

Because the few fights I got into, I won. You know, I did well. And it turned into, hey, when we get out, let's kick it. Let's start rolling around. Let's, you know, hit the streets together. And so that's what happened. And how long were you in there for? That time was about six months.

Okay. Almost a, yeah, almost a year. When you would get in these fights, would they extend your time there? No, no, because, I mean, there would be. So sometimes the guards, they didn't really care. Yeah. They were just like, okay, whatever. You know, like, there would be like little, they called like, they were called like honor sales.

Because at this time, I was still going to open dorm unit. It wasn't on, it wasn't until I returned that I would go to lockdown. And so, we would just go into these, like what they were called honor sales. And we would fight, you know, 32nd fight, whatever, a minute fight. And then, okay, whatever, we were done. I mean, we weren't like broken noses, shattered jaws, you know, we were just kind of like lumped up. Nothing too crazy. But that led to then getting out and hanging out with these guys.

And that was like what started all this. Because then from there, I felt more accepted there. I felt more loved. I felt like I valued. I was valued more there. And they say like with the gangs and stuff, it forms that sense of community. Yeah.

Like you have a group of people that I feel like you feel like have your back no matter what. Yeah. And if, I mean, well, you guys don't know the guys I was locked up with. But if I look back and focus on their lives, they had the same thing. You know, they, you know, one of them, his dad, you know, took him to go do his first drive-by at 12. You know, it's like, how much hope can we really have for a kid whose dad is taking him to go do a drive-by at 12 years old, right? And so, like, we were all, like, coming from these very dysfunctional families. And we just, you know, bonded together.

And that was like where one of us went, we all went. Like, that's just how we were. And again, that turned into, you know, more crime, kind of like upping the ante, if you will. Yeah. Because one of us would do something and I was like, oh, what? You know, like, you know, now, now, you know, from, you know, just robbing someone and, like, you know, maybe jumping on them and, like, taking their purse or something. Now it's like at gunpoint or something. You know, like it just kept escalating.

And. So did you guys form your own gang or did you enter a gang? So we were just all from the east side of Fresno. So Fresno has like first there is like not one like we don't have like this shot collar that runs. Like we just run wild. Right. That's kind of like what we're known for. Our motto is pretty much like you can't tell me what to do.

Okay. And so Fresno has. various parts of so it's like it's kind of like an umbrella so like you'll have the east side and then you'll have like all the different sets and neighborhoods that fall under that and then same with the north side and then the west side right and then um yep park side and a couple other and then were there certain things that you had to do to kind of like prove yourself yeah oh yeah but that kind of just came with you know the fighting in juvenile hall okay getting out hanging out with them and then it turned into just like if we saw, you know, someone that we thought was an enemy, we would get them.

And at this time, it was just like fighting. It wasn't anything crazy. It wasn't, you know, us trying to stab someone or shoot someone. It was just, we were just a bunch of knucklehead kids running around, you know. Start in trouble. Start in trouble. It wasn't until the first time I got shot at that I was like, okay, I'm done fighting. and it's now I'm going to pick up a gun.

And that's the second most, like, crucial or pivotal moment of my teenage years. Because at that time, I could have literally said, you know what, this isn't for me. Like, I just got shot at, you know. And the bullets were really freaking close. I don't know how they didn't get me. I don't know how they, I don't know what it was. But, you know, I could have just said, hey, I'm done with this. this this is actually turned out to be something I'm not into right like I almost got killed and the other option could have been like well now I'm going to retaliate I'm going to come back stronger I'm now going to change from fighting to carrying a gun and that's ultimately what I did and that's why I was how old were you huh I was 17 okay I was 17 and so that then turned into basically honestly selling drugs to get guns and then I was getting guns and then I was getting guns

from out of state and doing deals with meth to get more guns than I would if I paid cash. And so I now have access to guns. And that's when I catch my very first big case because I got caught with an AK-47. And I end up doing a year. I was 17. I turned 18 in there. And because I was a juvenile, I feel like that's what helped me not get as much time. Because I think like the max time for that was like three years or something.

And so I do a year and I get out. And immediately, again, I could have turned away. I could have just said I'm good, right? But I didn't. I continued. And when I think about it, I feel like I did it because I was, I don't want to say I was good at it, right? Because if I was, I wouldn't get caught. But I enjoyed that respect or what I thought was respect.

I enjoyed everything that came with it, right? When you start to like make this name for yourself in the streets, you get certain incentives. And I enjoyed it. And it was something that I felt like was fulfilling, even though it was horrible because I was out committing crimes and hurting people. But in a way, it was a way for me to kind of. climbed this like totem pose. And also too, I still had that ambition. I was still very driven.

I just was doing it for all the wrong reasons and doing it in the wrong, you know, arena. And how was your relationship with your parents, like kind of going in and out of jail at this point? You know, they, they were kind of like, okay, this is what you want to do. Right. You know, put your big boy choney's on because this is, you know, not, you're not going to, you know, this is, you know, this is, I mean, if you don't mind it, then, oh, well, you know, like, but you're not going to, you're not going to enjoy this after a while. Yeah. Did you ever get into any drugs at that time?

Yeah, you know, I use drugs more for, like, partying. Right. You know, it wasn't, that wasn't really my high. My high was doing crazy stuff, you know, running around and just, yeah, I mean. Like the violence? Yeah, that was more of my, that was more of my get-down. I enjoyed that. I didn't have to be high to do this stuff.

I didn't have to be drunk. At the time, I wasn't really even like a heavy drinker. I did do some drugs, but it wasn't like I was every day chasing dope, chasing heroin. Yeah, it was more so like selling them so they could get the gun. Yeah. So, yeah, that was my thing. And as a matter of fact, you know, how you asked about my parents, leading up to getting caught with the AK,

my dad one time came in and I had a shotgun and I had it was a remington and I bought a pistol grip for the pump and a pistol grip for the handle and had sawed it off and I was painting it all black and he walked in on me and he kind of looked at it and then he kind of looked at me and I was like oh shit like and I looked at him right because I was like on the ground you know painting it and I was like waiting for him to get mad and he looked at me and he just was kind of like oh so you're mad now huh and i was like oh i was like i mean i don't know i was like i i need it and he was kind of like i want to say he was things are getting real yeah he was hinting at like there's like no return to right and i mean he said a lot but like the exact words that i i do remember was oh there's no

turning back now you know and he was like if you're going to be involved in that stuff then you know, get it out of here and, and you need to get out of here. And so, I mean, that was like a week or so before I got caught. So it wasn't like I, you know, was already out the door. Like I was getting, you know, I was getting, I was getting, I was in the process of leaving. And then I got caught with the AK. But that didn't stop me. I got out and was right back to it. And again, I want to say six months after that. Yeah, somewhere between six months and a year after that, right before my 19th birthday, I got popped again for another gun and dope and gang enhancement. And so now with that gang enhancement, that was the one thing that really was going to give me a lot of time on this

case, because, you know, the gun and drugs, they would have probably given me two years, two and a half years, three years, you know, but it's a gang enhancement that now is a strikeable offense. And so the DA, seeing that what I got caught with as a juvenile, and now this, was smart. And how do they correlate that, like, someone's involved in a gang? Like, how did they kind of prove that? Tattoos, also who you get arrested with. At the time when they came to raid my apartment, there was a bunch of homeboys there. and some of them were validated.

They had already been to the joint. They had already been locked up. They had done time. And so to them, they were like, okay, he's hanging out with validated game. I'd never been to prison at this time. So to them, they're like, okay, he's hanging out with validated gang members. He's been caught with this AK. That's what he's been convicted of.

And now he's caught with more guns and drugs. Like, we're going to hit him with a gang enhancement. Got it. And they, in my opinion, I feel like, well, I mean, they do this a lot. But they set me up to come back for even more time because they're like, look, you sign for this strike on this gang enhancement and we'll let you go. You'll do time served because I was in the county jail. You'll do time served and you'll go home.

And I was like, yeah, sure, you know, signed for a strike. Yeah. And that hurt me when I came back for my last case, you know, what I went to prison for. So again, I'm laughing now, but I'm just like, throughout this whole time, I asked myself, not once did you stop to ask yourself, should I change? Well, change takes time, you know, and I feel like a lot of people have to go through a repetitive cycle over and over before they kind of learn, I need to make a change. Yeah, definitely. And, you know, for some people, that might be one time, for some people might be 10. And the other thing too is no one else is going to be able to make that decision for you.

Like you're going to have to come to that conclusion on your own. Yeah. And it's going to take a lot sometimes. Yeah, for sure. No, yeah. And like you looking back now, you have a different knowledge and wisdom than you had then. So it's like you can't even ask yourself now that question because you weren't in the, you weren't the same person.

You were a completely different mindset. Yeah. Yeah. The one thing though that I do is I feel bad. And I have to take responsibility for it because it was myself, you know, who inflicted all this damage on people. Luckily, I've kind of kept up with some of the people that I've hurt in the past. Outside of, like, you know, my family and all that. Because doing time, you hurt, you put stress on your family, you know.

But there are times where I'm like, I can't dwell on it too much because then I'll just be like, man, dude, you were a scumbag. Like, you just were a piece of shit. And I've come to terms with it and taken that responsibility. and accepted, you know, all that. And like I said, I can't dwell on it too much because then I'm just like, dang, especially like the people closer to me that I hurt, you know, it's like, I still feel bad about it. But again, like you said, like you don't realize that. And in the moment, you don't realize just how selfish you really are when you're doing that,

you know? And so again, I just continued. And again, it was another gun case. And it just, this time it was the feds that picked it up. And this I do want to talk about because I feel like they were very shady in this. So this particular case, there was an undercover ATF agent posing as a drug mule for a drug or for a cartel in Fresno. He said that he would transport anywhere from, I don't know, I think it was like 10 or 20 kilos at a time and that he knew where the drug house was at. So then he, on his payroll, like one of his, you know, confidential informants, basically,

is he had a confidential informant that set all this up. And my two co-defendants, one of them lived in this apartment complex where the confidential informant was the manager. And so one thing that they were leading up to this, the confidential informant was trying to get my co-defendant, my friend. He was trying to get him to have me sell him another AK-47. And long story short, I just was not feeling. I was just like, no, no, we're not doing all that. But still, in the process of fighting this case, they try to bring it up. And I'm like, I never sold him anything, you know.

But before all that, so that's how the ATF agent was introduced to us. So my buddy asked me if I'm wanting, if, you know, if I want to get in on this, he just tells me, hey, you know, so-and-so, my manager, he's like, he came to me and he, you know, one of his buddies, drug meal, da-da-da-da, stash house, we can go get 10 or 20 keys. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I'll check it out. Let me see. Let me hear what he has to say. And we meet in this McDonald's parking lot. And again, I was still involved. I mean, I was running the streets doing wild stuff, but I was still wet behind the ears to a certain extent. And think, about it now, I'm like, man, you could have clearly seen that he was freaking nervous and like,

like the ATF agent did not know how to play his role, you know, as an undercover. I didn't like any of it. I was just kind of like, no, I'm not really feeling it. And I think out of all the meetings, I think that was like the only one that I went to. Um, because there was one, there was three or four. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There was four. And I went to that one. And then, showed up to like half of one where it was just kind of like, I'm good. And so this took like a month. And the last couple meetings, I was just like, I'm good. Like, that's whatever. But my two code defendants still went through with it. So they, the day of, the day of this, all this stuff supposed to go down, they show up. It's the ATF agent, the confidential informant, and my two buddies in the back.

And the confidential informant is like, where is Looney? That was my nickname in the streets, Looney, right? And my co-friend is like, yo, he doesn't, he's not interested. Like, he's not, he's not answering. He doesn't want to go. And the undercover was just adamant about it. Like, no, call him back, call him back. And they sat there for like 20, 30 minutes.

And he was just blown up my phone. And I'm like, bro, I already told you. Like, I'm cool, you know? And so finally the undercover agent was like, okay, whatever. You know, and they take off. and they got arrested at a storage place because they were supposed to go to the storage place, pick up the guns, the ski mask and all that, and then go off and do it, right? And so that's where they got popped.

And then I got popped right after that. At first, I think, like, our first offer was 24 years or it was some outrageous amount of time where I was like, at the time I was thinking to myself like, I didn't even do shit. Yeah, I was going to ask, like, why did you get in trouble if you were. weren't there and you didn't want to go. Because I didn't notify the proper authorities. Interesting. Okay.

So they can say you were still involved even though you didn't have to. Yeah. Yeah. Because you knew about it. Yep. Exactly. And that's why I got arrested and I was looking at the same amount of time as then.

Yeah. I was like, what the? Right. Like where does this happen? Yeah. Like I might as well have done it then. Yeah, exactly. But after a while, it really put me into a really, like, sticky situation.

So, of course, we didn't sign for the outrageous amount of time. And we were trying to get it dismissed on outrageous government conduct. Because we were like, had the ATF never proposed this idea, we would have never thought of this. Right. It's not like you guys were making the decision on your own. Exactly. It's not like we went to them and said, hey, we need your help. Yeah.

Like, they came to us and said, hey, you want to do this crime? Right. You know? And when we did that, it was like a two-week process where we were in court every day. It was kind of like a mini trial where it was like we were presenting facts and they would, you know, we had the confidential informant on the stand, the undercover agent, and come to find out that they were dirty. I'm Anna Garcia, host of True Crime News, the podcast. Every week we bring you in-depth coverage on cases making headlines as well as those that go under the radar. Tune in for murders that defy explanation, mystery seeking exploration, and shocking secrets that will leave you breathless. Each week, we honor the victims by going beyond the salacious in our search for justice. Crime never stops, and neither do we.

Listen to true crime news available now wherever you get your podcast. Really? Yeah, yeah. The confidential informant was doing a bunch of stuff that he shouldn't have, and the undercover agent knew about it. and like just didn't care. Was it brushing it under the rug. Yeah. Excuse me.

And. So did that work in your favor? Yeah. Yeah. It actually did. But it worked more in the favor of my co-defendants. Okay. And the reason why I say that is because the, so when we wrap everything up, the judge says,

okay, you guys come back tomorrow and I'll give my ruling on this, whether we're going to dismiss and throw out the entire case. Once that happens, they can't refile. Like, we're home. That's it, you know. And so I want to say maybe two or three hours after we got back to the county jail, my lawyer shows up. And he's like, hey, you guys are going to get seven and a half years.

He was like, you know, the DA's offering it. But you have to sign. If you don't sign, then your two co-defendants can't get it. And I was like, okay. And my lawyer at the time was like saying like, you know, think about it. He's like, because I honestly feel like we can beat this. We can actually go to trial if need be.

He was like, you clearly told him no, you're not interested. He was like, it's not on you to call the cops. You know, you're just trying to wipe your hands with it. He's like, you have really good action at this. He's like, but if that happens, you then screw your code of sentence over. Because then it's like, okay, well, since they showed up, they're automatically, then that makes them automatically. be guilty. And they're, and, and they get screwed. He's like, so you have that to think about.

And remember, if you don't sign this, they can't get it. And you need to sign it before we go back to court tomorrow. If this is what we're going to do. And, you know, with everything going on, my parents and family still in, uh, living in Fresno, um, you know, my, my, my little sister at the time, She was wrapped up in the in the street life, you know, as well. I mean, she wasn't out doing super crazy stuff. You know, her husband at the time was a homeboy. And so like we were still very much a part of that, right? And I didn't want to bring any of that drama to my parents, to my sister.

Right. I didn't want to be known as like this guy that didn't really snitch, but then kind of kind of took this route that screwed over. some homeboys, you know. And so I signed. We, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, you know, after that, you know, took them, you know, took them the paperwork to sign. So because you signed did, were you automatically given the seven years as well? Yeah. Okay. Yep. Yep. Yep. So I signed for that. Um, and then off the prison, we went. And I, I, it's still amazed. For some odd reason, I was the head of the indictment.

And I'm like, I, I played the elite. I, I played the lead. Like my role was like the... Do you think it was because of the previous charges? I don't know. I mean, maybe. Maybe I don't know. But because of my previous charges and because of, you know, because when I was in a county jail, I was in a lot. Like I got into a lot of trouble in a county jail, like a lot.

You know, to the point to where I was in isolation, which is just like a hallway of 10 cells. And basically what you see outside of your cell or your cell. or your cell door is like a brick wall, you know, and at the end of the hallway is a shower that has a camera in it. So they're watching you at all times. And I want to say maybe, you know, all of that combined, placed me to go to USP, which is high security prison in the federal system. And my buddy started off at FCIs. I was like, how does this happen? You know?

Yeah. And they got to go to their first prisons were in California. My first prison was all the way out in Florida. I'm just thinking to myself like, maybe you shouldn't have signed. Right. Maybe you should have just said, fuck it. And, you know, not have signed. But, you know, I get to, to, it was USP Coleman 1.

I mean, there's crazy stuff that happened there. You know, anyone that's been there, done time there, or even familiar with the feds, you know, there's a lot going on there. And this is like kind of like where I see my first or I realize my first, how do you say this? Like I get my first taste of like econ economics, right? because you had heroin on the yard, you had meth, you had weed, you had cigarettes, you had, you know, moonshine, Bruno, you had all that, you know. And you can see that like the money was flowing, right? With, you know, more money flowing that creates other opportunities for other smaller guys

that have like this little hustle where they'll clean your clothes or they'll clean your shoes or like, you know, if your shoes get holes in them, you know, they'll fix them, right? And so you kind of see that happening on a small scale. And I'm there for three years and I don't get into too much trouble there. Really, it was just like there was a, you know, I was tattooing. and I was tattooing on the guys that were bringing in heroin. And then I eventually started dabbling in that because I was able to, you know, I had someone visiting me and, you know, I get wrapped up in that, right?

Again, back to doing the same thing. Yeah, you know, like just not really understand. understanding. Basically, to me, it was like, okay, I'm in prison. I'm going to make the most of it. I'm going to do what I need to do to make a name for myself. That was my main goal, was like, people are going to know who I am. And so I get wrapped up in that. We start bringing in drugs. We start selling it. I'm tattooing at the time. And I have that. going on. And really, I was doing it because, well, one of the reasons why I enjoyed it was because I was able to kind of like set up, set up things to where like if more of my homeboys came, we could take care of them, right? I was still very much dedicated to that cause. I was still very much dedicated to like, you know, making things happen. I mean, like I said, we don't really have someone that, you know, tells us what to do, right?

But it was more of like being able to like just function on our own, right? And, and, you know, anytime someone would roll up, we'd have a good care package for them. They'd be taken care of, you know, if they didn't have family looking out for them, it was cool. We'd still, you know, make sure you had commissary, you were eating good. And so I was still very much a part of that. I still very much wanted to, again, like I said, make that name. and then there was

you know there was a removal there of a of a homeboy that showed up that was you know no good and then again that just it's it's

for me I feel like it's like a it's just like a snowball like it just when one thing happens it's like it then just bombarded with more of it right because then right after that I went to another prison where it was really just a whole, I call it just like a whole weekend of violence.

And that was the very first time that I realized what I was doing was completely against what my mom wanted for me. And why did they transfer you? So I got transferred because my, my points finally put me at a FCI. Okay. And so they transferred. answer me to Tucson and there were no homeboys there and part of like gang culture and this goes across the board. It doesn't matter, you know, if you're Southern, Hispanic, Northern, if you're a Hispanic gang member, this is what you're supposed to do. If you go to a prison yard and there's no, no, none of your homeboys there, you still do your best to try to get out to the yard to attack your enemy. And so, long story short, that's what happened. And I get into three separate

altercations there. And then now I'm in the shoe. And I'm in the shoe maybe three weeks, two weeks, somewhere around there. And it's time for me to make a phone call because you're allowed one phone call every month. And that's just complete isolation, right? For me, yeah, because I was wrecked alone and house alone because one of my altercations happened in the shoe. Got it. So after that, they just put me a wreck alone and house alone. So I was alone the whole time. And they bring the phone to your door.

And they open up the tray slot and you reach through and you call, right? And before I tell the story, as Latinos, we're very close to our moms. like and and vice versa like if you I don't know if you've seen this it's a funny picture and it's like these three tatted up they're their their Surenios are from southern California and they're all tatted up right and and then it's like the mom saying like oh miss angelito is like my little angels right and it's like that's how our moms view us you know like we can do no wrong and so I call my mom and she gets a on the phone and she hears how quiet it is in the background. And she was like, you're back in the

shoe, huh? And I was like, oh, yeah. And she was like, what happened? And I was like, well, you know, I can't really say, but, you know, an incident happened. And I'm back in the shoe now. And I don't know how long I'll be in the shoe because they haven't given me, at the time, they hadn't given me my, consequences, if you will, right? Like, they hadn't told me how long my shoe term was going to be, if I was going to get my commissary taken away, all that, right? Like, they'll come and do, like, a, like a hearing, if you will, and they'll tell you, you know, what, what's going to happen. And so my mom is like, you can hear it in her voice, like her, she just was hurt. Like, and, and her and I had never really had a conversation like this, ironically. Like, we never,

I feel like she kind of didn't want to deal with it. Like she didn't want to accept the fact like, dang, my son is this wild, you know, heathen in prison, you know. And my, you could hear it in my mom's voice. You could just hear like the disappointment and like the frustration and the anger, right? And like she straight up told me she was like, look, when you were born, I didn't have these goals for you. Like I didn't hold you and think, oh, my son's going to go to prison one day.

you know she was like i thought like you were going to go to college you were going to be an engineer or like a doctor you know like she's like i never thought you would be where you are right now she was like this she's like when are you going to learn like what what is it like what's your problem you know like is this what you want for your life like is this it like what are you doing you know and um like i had no words to say to that i mean what do you say to that i mean what do you say to that, right? Like I didn't know how to respond and I just was real quiet and I didn't really say anything and, you know, we hung up the call with her saying like, you know, you should think about what you want for your life, you know. Hey guys. Today's episode is sponsored by Manscaped and

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And how much I had hurt my mom, you know. Like, leading up to this, I guess since I was so driven to like make this name for myself, I didn't really think about others and like what their perspectives were. You know, like, or how my mom felt, right? Like I said, it was very selfish. And so, you know, realizing all this, I was just like, what the hell? Like a slap in the face. Yeah, you know, and I was just like thinking to myself, I'm like, I'm over here trying to prove myself to, you know, this. group of people. And in return, what I'm getting is pain for my mom, you know, stress on my mom,

right? Because she couldn't help herself, but watch these lockup shows. And she's just like, are you okay? And she's just, you know, worried about her. I'm her only son. I'm her only son. And so it's like, that was like, there's three moments in prison that started my, my change. And that was the very first one. And it was kind of at that moment where I was like, dude, you should really think about what you're going to do with your life. Because I forgot to mention this, but when I got sentenced, the judge basically told me, if I came back on another gun charge, I would get the minimum, which is 30 years, because I would then be qualified as an armed career criminal in the federal courts. And that starts off at 30 years because they would, they would use the, they could

didn't use the AK against me because I was a juvenile when that happened, but they would use this prison offense and the one where I got caught and sentenced with the gang enhancement. And so it was kind of like, do you want to get caught with another gun? Do you want to get out and roll around with guns again? Because if you get caught, it's a 30, it's a mandatory minimum. There is no getting around that, you know? And so that was when I kind, it was like, you know what? oh okay you know like maybe maybe let me look into some things like what what you know i wasn't really like as active uh with that thinking until you know like uh incident two and three i just call them incident two and three right and so um so from there i go back to a usp i go to mccory

usp mccory out in kentucky and i'm there and there's this uh gentleman from the midwest and, I mean, we just called him Roach, his last name. And me and him are real cool where we play chess. He's an old dude that had been down 20, 30 years, some outrageous amount of time. And he's super cool. He's very respectful. And he invites me to this church event. And so, like, out of respect, I was like, yeah, sure, dude.

I'll go check it out, you know. Also, too, they were going to have some really good food. So what? How'd be go. Yeah. So if you, so for instance, the Muslims, you know, anybody that's a Jew, Christian, right, like there are certain events, because this was for Easter. So there are certain events where you can bring in way better food, right? The administration will do that, right? And then you cook it in the kitchen and transport it to the, like, rec center. And you get together and it's good food, right? It's not prison. food. And so, you know, part of me was kind of like, yeah, man, I'm going to eat good. Like, let's go, you know? And so as we're going out, McQuary at the time was a split yard, meaning like half of the president would be on the yard and the other half would be in their

units. And then vice versa. Like, it would go back and forth. Well, I'm going to the rec center and I see two of my own boys on the yard. And they're like, hey, Looney, where are you going, man? I was like, oh, hey, I'm going to this church event. And they're like, what the? I'm like, yeah, man, Root, she invited me, man. You know, I'm going to go over there and check it out. You know, get my little grub on and then head back to the unit. And they're like, oh, okay, okay. And I turn around to, like, keep walking.

And I'll never forget, I turned around one last time and I looked at them. And now at this time, I'm like a seasoned convict, right? Like, I'm not wet behind the ears anymore. a funny incident happened when I first got to Coleman that still showed I was wet behind the years in my early 20s. I had a knife. And instead of like hiding it in like various parts of the yard or the cell or just in the unit somewhere, I throw it in my locker and just put a bunch of clothes on it.

Like the COs wouldn't just come and like take the sweaters and be like, oh, you have a knife here, idiot, you know? So at this time, by the time I, at my query, I'm like a seasoned convict. And I could see their body language and I could see it in their like look at each, that they were giving each other, that there were, it was like, oh, okay. And, and me, I processed that look and that communication as, oh, we need to go report this because, you know, we should have him like hit or something.

You know, we should have him whacked because we don't do church. And sure enough, I get to the hall that leads to all, you know, the rec center and the basketball court and all that. And from that hall, you can see on, you can look onto the yard because they're, there are windows. And so I follow them. Do, do, do, do, do. Right. And I'm watching them as they're going and talking to certain people. And I was like, oh, you fucking scandalous little snakes because they hadn't done anything.

They, they, this, you know, they, they had been down, you know, a few years. But in those few years, they hadn't done, they hadn't put in any work. They just were there. Yeah. You know what I mean? And so I took that as, man, I've done more in a weekend. And you guys, you have done your whole bid, you know, like, and because I want to go and hang out and eat some food. And, you know, I took it as, it would kind of be disrespectful to him because he was.

was cool with me. You know, like I said, me and him were real cool. And I was like, thinking to myself, like, you fucking trifling bastards, dude, like, all right, I see what you guys are on, you know? And that was the one thing that I needed to kind of be like, okay, I'm cool with you guys. Like, if this is what it takes for you guys to, like, now turn around and be like, oh, what's up with this guy? And, like, man, who the fuck are you?

Like, what? like and and and that combined with the phone call I had with my mom like I said that was what I needed that was like what I needed to then be like okay when I get out I'm not dealing with any of you guys right like I'm good you know I was like because if this is how you're treating me over this yeah you know I was like you guys are you guys are scumbags you know and so from that point on I really just finished my time. Like I wasn't, you can't completely distance yourself, right? Because then you get hit, you get whacked, right?

And so I was still hanging out, but I wasn't like how I was before. Like deep in it. Yeah. I didn't care about, you know, trying to make money and help others out. Like, I just, it was, I was just all about me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so. Did you serve the full seven years?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I lost all my time, which, you know, I'll explain here. I thought I was going to get six months halfway house and a year off my sentence because of Ardap. So in McQuarrie, my counselor tells me that.

He was like, yeah, man. He's like, yeah, you're going to get six months halfway house. Ardap will take a year off. He was like, you'll be home because at that time I had like three years left. And he was like, yeah, man, you'll be home in roughly 18 months. And I'm like, what? I'm like, oh, okay. And so I go and I'm telling my mom and I'm like, yeah, 18 months, right?

Because of this and that. You know, I'll have to do the halfway house, but I'll be in Fresno. And then like, wow, man, like two weeks after this, he calls me back in and he's like, hey, man, I actually messed up and I lied to you. Like, you have nothing coming. And I just like flip out. Yeah. Because I'm like, dude, you are messing with my time. You're messing with my date.

I just told my mom I'm going home in 18 months. Like, what the hell do you mean? don't, and I'm just like getting, I'm not like, blah, right? But I'm like very like, and I'm kind of raising my voice. And I'm like, dude, and you could see that I'm like contemplating something, right? And I mean, I wasn't going to jump on him. I wasn't going to like assault the guy, right? But I was just like, I didn't know how to control myself, right?

Because I'm like, dude, you literally just said 18 months. Yeah. And he sees that. And he's like, well, hold on, hold on. He was like, look, man. to make it up to you, he's like, how would you like to go to the FCI? And I was like, yeah, sure, all right. You know, shut me up real quick because I was like, yeah, I'll go back to an FCI, you know.

So somewhere like that, is it just less rules? It's just there's more, because McQuarrie sucked. Yeah. Macquarie sucked. You know, one day you're in your cell, I mean, you're in your unit, you know, and then the next day you're on the yard and then back and forth, right? Like, it just, you hardly had any yard time, you know, and that, and that sucks. And also, too, dinner was not dinner.

Every, every time they brought dinner, it wasn't a hot meal. It was cold sandwich, you know. And then there was just, there was, there was no way to really make good, good money there. Like, nobody had, there was no drugs on the yard. There was no pruno. There was none of that, right? I mean, I tattooed still, you know, I was still tattooing making money, but it wasn't like, I don't know, it just wasn't how like I envisioned how I wanted, like, it wasn't like Coleman. Like, yeah, Coleman was rocking.

Like people were, you know, you know, getting, you know, there was riots, there was stabbing, there was all that. But it still had that, that other component of like, okay, there's money on the yard. You know, Macquarie was just dry. Right. And so it was just like, oh, my God. And then it was in the snow. And then it was just like, oh, man, I'm good. dude like I need to change you know I need to go to a different prison and so so he puts me in and then I go to

fcio arena and fcio arena I mean I thought I would go to a prison where like there was like you know money on the yard there was weed or you know this you know pruno but there was nothing on that yard um the only thing that I enjoyed was like I was already close to the house and also they had a weight pile so that was the cool thing um and And the very last, like, moment that kind of was like a thorn in my side, or maybe, maybe that's not a proper way to describe it. It was more of like the knife I already had like in my heart that from, you know, causing my mom pain and all that. This event kind of like twisted it a little, you know, to where it was like, damn, dude. So I worked in the kitchen and we would fry chicken.

And then I would, we would wrap it up in big bags and wrap it around our. our waste and then we take it to the unit and sell it you know because football it was it was during uh you know college football NFL and that's like big in in prison sports is big right because you can bet you gamble on it um you can do you know tickets and whatnot and so i go into one of the they had tv rooms um and so i went into one of the tv rooms and it was texas a and m playing i'll never remember who they were playing but it was at kyle field And I just sat there. You could just see all of the, I mean, yeah, the majority of them are, you know, kids,

students, their undergrads, right? But, like, you just see the entire, like, just nothing but Aggies. And they're just, like, going hard. They're enjoying themselves. They're just, you know, painted. And they're freaking, they're going wild, right? And, like, I was sitting there and I was thinking to myself, I was like, damn, dude, like, that could have, you could have been doing something.

like that. Maybe not at A&M, but at some college. And I was thinking like, man, you, again, I was like, you fucking dumbass. Like, for what? For what? For what? Now look at you. At the time, I really, I didn't hate like all my homeboys because I still had some that I was cool with that I knew were like stand up dudes. But I still had that bad taste in my mouth, you know, from the previous prison. And I was just thinking of myself, I was like, you're here. here, you were trying to impress, you know, older homeboys. You were trying to impress the entire, you know, group of guys from Fresno, right? And they're freaking junkies, they're dope fiends. And like, what good did that do you, you know? And I'm just, like, beating myself up bad over

this because I'm like, dude, you fucked up your chance. Because at this time, I didn't know I could go to a community college and transfer. I don't know. I don't know. why I always say this. I don't know why I thought this, but I thought you had to go directly from high school to a four-year university. I didn't know that. Yeah. And so I'm thinking they're like, man, you blew your fucking chance. Right. Because you wanted to run around with guns and you wanted to be Billy badass. Now look at you. You fucked that off. And I just was like, oh, like I just hated myself. I just, it was horrible. Like I said, it was like twisting that knife even more, you know. And so from there, I paroled from that prison.

I paroled from there. And I paroled to my moms. So it's me, mom, dad, and my younger sister. And during this time, my dad got sober. And my sister divorced her husband. And she's now all about school. And her, my mom, and my dad, they're all about church at this time. And in prison, my mom, she sent me a Bible.

And when I was in Coleman, USP Coleman 1, and I was just like, Mom, like, I'll hold on to it, but I'm not going to read it. Yeah. And my whole thing was like, I'm in prison. I don't want to be one of those guys that hides behind the Bible or like, here I am preaching the Bible. And then, like, you know, I get out. And two months later, I come back because I was getting high or something, you know. You see that a lot, you know. And so I just, I don't know.

it just collected dust on the top of my locker. And it wasn't until like I got out that my mom and sister started taking me. And it was pretty cool. I enjoyed it because there were other guys there that had similar backgrounds. Yeah. And so we're doing all, you know, I wouldn't say like we were doing church like religiously. We're probably doing it like once a week, maybe once every other week. But then the moment.

that killed like my, like my rage is the moment that my dad asked me to forgive him for how he raised me, you know, with the, because he was, he was mean. He was a mean, dude. Um, and, you know, he, he, he, he wanted me to forgive him for, you know, the times that he would hit me, you know, uh, there had been times where he'd hit me with an extension cord, oil dipper, like anything he could get his hands on. When he was mad, he was mad. And then also for, um, like, how he would hit me. would make us fight. And so it was like a weird, I don't know, it was a very weird, I don't want to say interaction, because the interaction itself wasn't off-putting, but it was the feelings that came afterwards where it was like, I really, like I really felt like a lighter, better person,

you know, like I felt like I started to feel kind of good about myself, you know. Well, I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think, too, you know, some people that deal with childhood trauma like that, they never get an apology. And sometimes that's all they want. You know, like they're seeking it. They ask for it. But I feel like since that kind of came to you from the goodness of your dad's heart and kind of like on his own. Yeah. I feel like you really knew and believed.

Like he meant it. Yeah. Like that was by choice from him. Yeah. And it was genuine. Yeah. Yeah, because I could start, I could see that he was fighting back tears. Yeah.

And I've never seen my dad cry. Never, never. He's not the type where it's, oh, I love you, son. And he doesn't do that, you know. So seeing that, I was like, okay, it's his, right. He's not bullshitting, right? And it probably, too, like, kind of took the weight off of you that was put onto you during childhood of, like, in your mind, maybe, like, I have to be this type of man. and I have to prove myself.

And maybe even though you weren't thinking that consciously anymore, like as an adult, it kind of removed that for like the child version of yourself. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like my life, the past, I got out in prison, what, 2016? I feel like the last like, I don't know, seven, eight years that I've been out. I feel like my life has been like this constant killing of, you know,

loony, the, you know, this gang member and killing that either. that comes with that and like just being myself and being okay in my own skin, you know. I think it's also just like truly finding who you are today without any of that. And you know, we can have many different versions of ourselves. You know, we go through different phases in our life. And I don't think there should ever be a time that no matter how bad we could have been or were, that we should look back and be like, oh, like that, that, you know, I hate that version of me. I feel like we have to get to a point where we can kind of face that version of ourselves

and accept it and speak to it and give it some sort of grace because at that point, like we were that way for a reason. Even if it was bad reasons, like that was part of our journey. That was part of our story. But now we can be grateful of where we are now and everything we've learned from it. And that's not to excuse any of the behaviors. It's more so just so that we don't have that negativity and regret because that doesn't serve us either. Yeah.

No, that's very accurate. right there. Because if I think back to the times where I think about my previous life and the things that I did, I will start to beat myself up over it. You know, and it's kind of like, you know, then you now you're just stuck back. You're now getting back on that hamster wheel, you know, and so. Well, we can't heal until we're willing to accept. Yeah. Yeah, that's very true. You know, like we have to be able to confront the old version of ourselves. And, and truly, I think, be able to kind of like speak to it as if we're like right in front of them. And then that's how we can be able to like heal from it and learn from it ultimately.

Because if we hold that resentment and that bitterness, it's like that's going to prevent us from fully just letting go. And just accepting like it is part of our journey. Yeah. And then so that was like 2016. And my mindset at the time was just work. Just start making money. I never thought of college or school. Just because, for one, my mindset was I'm an ex-convict.

I'm full of tattoos. At the time, my face was still heavily tattooed. And so I'm thinking to myself, like, college is not what, you know, college is not even on my radar at all. And I get a job as a well. so I'm working and then I move back to I move back to to to Fresno because I got married at the time and move back to Fresno again find a job working as a welder and then tattooing at a friend's shop so my days were basically Monday through Saturday 5 a.m. to 3 p.m. or sometimes 5.m. or sometimes 5.

p.m. welding, I'd go home, take a shower, go to the tattoo shop until maybe like nine or 10 at night. And to me, like, I was content with that. You know, I was, okay, cool. You know, I'm not in the streets. I'm not, you know, there's plenty of times where, you know, homeboys have hit me up, hey, man, let's go out here. Listen, I'm like, no, I'm good, bro. Like, I'm good. You know, like, at the time I was married, so I was like, okay, I'm going to, I'm doing this, you know. And then I, so my mom and my sister and dad moved back from Fresno. And they were living in Salinas, California, which is two and a half, two hour drive from Fresno.

And about an hour drive from San Jose. And so I go up there to visit. And my sister's, she's in college at the time. And she's working like on an upper division. stats class. And I started like, me and my sister have this funny relationship. We, you know, we call you, like, I'll call her cockroach. Like it's a, it's an inside thing, right?

It's, it comes from, you know, childhood friends and family. And so, you know, we'll, you know, hey, what's up, cockroach, whatever. And so she's working on this problem. And she's like explaining it to me. and I'm kind of like there with her, you know, I'm like, oh, okay. But then I start like goofing around, right, and playing around with her. And I was like, well, no, here, I'll solve it. And I grab her calculator and I do something and I start messing with it.

But like, she was kind of like, I mean, I could have been, you know, been blown smoke out of my ass. I don't know what I was kind of doing. But I was like still able to like kind of stay there with her, right? And she was surprised by it. And she was like, you should go back to college. and like I said at that time my mindset was like no I have a criminal record I'm not going to go to college do all this time in college just to get a degree and get out and then it's like oh you can't get a job because your record um not only that my had a face full of tattoos and so I was like no

I'm good you know no I'm good and she just kept pounding me and then of course my mom you know she's like yeah you know go back to school like you know when you're you know a little kid you're You know, you were, you did good in school, you know, and I was like, yeah, I was a little kid. Yeah. I was nine or ten. Like, I'm an adult now. It's been years since I was in school. And that's a commitment.

Yeah. Oh, my, yeah. Oh, yeah. I have been in school for a little over seven years. And when I get my degree, it'll be almost eight. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

So, so I was like, no, I'm good. I'm good. Like, you're tripping, right? And I had this amazing opportunity lined up to go work on the pipeline. And that fell through. And like I said, at the time, I wasn't like this hardcore, like, Christian, but I had, like, this faith that I was working on and building. And then, and so to me, that was, like, the sign that I needed.

And I called up my sister. And for me, the reason why I thought it was even more of a sign was because I did really well on this. on this. So it was with the union. It was going to be with a union in California. And I was going to go work on the pipeline as a welders helper. I did really well in everything. The actual written tests. And then also, you know, they, like they had this demo day to replicate what your life would be like on the pipeline and just how you, you know, what to do. You know, always hand in rods to the to the welders, you know, using a grinder, certain procedures, right? Like when you're grinding, you know, you know, you yell out eyeballs to make sure everyone covers up. And so I did well on all of that. And I was second on the list. So I thought like, oh, I'll be on the first thing smoking, you know. But I put my number down wrong when, you know, when I filled out everything, don't know how I've put down my number wrong.

But I did. So when they called me and it was the wrong number, they just scratched me and took me off the list. And so months go by and I'm like, man, I should have been gone by now. You know, this was like a January of 2017. And, you know, it's now like May or June. And I'm like, man, I should have been gone by now. Like, it's been six months almost. So I call up the union.

They're like, oh, yeah, man, we called you, but your number was wrong. So we scratched you off. And they're like, but you know what, man? Like, do you want us to put you back on the list? And that was the moment where I was like, no, this is the sign that I needed. I was like, no, it's fine. It's cool. It's all right, man. Thank you. And so, um, and so from there, it just was, okay, sister, what is this life like? What is this, what does this look like? And she sat me down. She basically did everything for me because like I said, I didn't know anything. Yeah. So she

started the whole process of, um, getting me enrolled at Fresno City College. And at this time, they were doing placement tests. And so she sets up my appointment. I go down and the lady to help me, her name's RV Gill, there was like three math tests. And she used me the lowest one. And I like absolutely killed it. Like I just did really well.

And she's like, no. She's like, you know what, dude, you did too good on this. She's like, here, take this hardest, the hardest one that we have. And then we'll go from there. And so I take the test. What I could answer, I'd answered. And then there were some questions that I couldn't answer, but I saw that there had been like a little circle on the answer and someone had erased it. So I was just like, oh, I'll use that one.

I'll use that one. I'll use that one. And so the highest you could get, like the highest math class you would get placed in was calculus one. And she, I was straddling between algebra and trig. And when I get to her and she tells me that, she's like, well, she was like, you're kind of like in between. I could either put you in algebra or I could put you in trig. She was like, but what do you want to major in? And I was like, honestly, I don't know anything about majors.

I don't know anything. I don't know anything. I'm just getting started. Yeah, I told her. I was like, I've, I'm just trying to figure it out. And so she was like, well, what do you like to do? And I was like, well, I like to work with my hands. I like to make things and build.

She was like, oh, okay, you're going to be an engineering major. And I was like, all right, all right, whatever, you know. And she was like, well, because of that, we're going to place you in trigonometry. Because that's higher than algebra. And it'll be one less, like, you'll start off higher, basically. You know, she's like, because you have to take all the math. So I was like, all right, whatever. And at this time, I have no idea what she's saying.

I have no idea what I'm signing up for. I don't know any of this, right? And I'll never forget when she told me that I'll be starting in trigonometry. I was like, how the fuck do you even spell trigonometry, right? like and I was just like but the whole time I was like no bro like let's get it you know it is what it is so we I get out I had the list of classes that I have to sign up for and I text my sister and I don't know how to spell trigonometry so I put T R IG and then I see like the auto correct and I was like oh okay that should be it right and if it wasn't for that I would

have just had to leave it at like trig you know because I didn't know how to spell it and And so I just, I take off. And like I said, at this time, I have no idea about college or anything that comes with college. And I didn't know about, rate my professor, basically tells you, you know, gives you reviews on the professors, right? And so I just go online. My sister helps me, she goes online with me and she shows me how to register. And I'm just like picking classes that fit my schedule. Well, I happened to get a math class with, at the time, she's retired, but her name is Ms. Wynne.

And she was like feared on campus. Like everyone, like whenever I would tell someone like, oh yeah, I'm in Ms. Wyn's class, I'd be like, what? Oh my gosh, she's so hard. I had to drop the class and this and that, right? But I loved it because it was so structured. It was so, there was so much discipline that you needed to do well in that class. And I absolutely just killed the class.

And I was the only student that she went to after like the class was over. And she's like, you need to be a math tutor. And again, I was still in that mindset of like, nah, I'm a convict. Like I look at me, you know. And I told her, I was like, well, Ms. Swin, I was like, I don't know. She's like, no, no, no, no. She's like, I'm going to put in my recommendation. she was like, they know when I put in a recommendation, that's golden.

And it's because she was so strict, you know? So it's like, if you survived her class, it was like, okay, I know, this is, this person knows math, right? And so I was like, all right, oh, whatever, you know. And so I then, I then take, because at the time they had to do it, this was the fall of 2017, going into, entering 2018. And you had to take the, like the recommendation down there. So I go down there and the lady that would be my, that was going to be my boss, her name's Heather Walker, I go to her, introduce myself, tell her, hey, you know, Ms. Wend, sent me over.

She said I should apply. And I was like, but I'm going to be honest with you, I have a record. And I'm still on parole. And so she was like, no, cool. She's like, don't worry about it. She's like, look, we'll do it like this. If they say something, then we'll figure it out. But if they don't say anything about like, oh, you need to pass his background check or you need to.

She's like, we're not going to say anything. Right. And I was like, all right, cool. And everything went smoothly. We never heard back like, hey, he needs to take a, he needs to do a background check. Or we were, I just, I kind of like just flew under the radar. And after that, I became a tutor. And so I was a math tutor at Fresno City College my entire time there.

And in the moment, I didn't think so much of it because I, like, it was my first semester, you know, and I was just like, again, I was, I turned into the person that's wet behind the ears, you know, like, this is all new to me, like, what, you know. And so I'd never really, like, stop to think and, like, reflect on that moment. Because it was, at this time, just like how I was with my gang career, that's, that's how I was treating school. I was like, no, let's get it. Let's go, you know. And so I didn't really like sit back and reflect on on just how important my interaction with Miss Wynn and Heather was. Because now that I think about it, it was then believing in me that kind of helped me get rid of that my own like stigma. Yeah. Like oh, you're just a convict. Yeah. You know, and so starting to see that, I started to get more comfortable in school. And then so, you know, I've become a math tutor.

So 2018, spring of 2018, I take pre-calk. And I've now made a couple friends that were also math tutors. But they were starting, they were going to take calculus three that following fall. So fall 2018, right? And they told me, hey, why don't you take calculus one and two during the summer? Calculus 1 in four weeks, calculus two and six weeks. Like they're, as soon as Calc 1 ends, you start, you know, it'll end on Friday, that Monday you start Calc 2 and you'll do that for six weeks.

And they were kind of like, man, you're not down. Like, you're not. And I was like, oh, okay. Let's get it. Yeah, you guys are, oh, this is a challenge? Like, okay. You know, and so, and so I did that. I did Calc 1 and then followed by Calc 2.

I did really well in Calc 1. Calc 2, I remember the first day of class and the professor was reading off the roster and he gets to my name and I'm like, oh yeah, here. And he kind of looks at me like, like, what? And I took that like super disrespectful. And I was like, oh, dude, I was like, watch what I do to your fucking class. like you have no idea and like it like just bothered me and um i did so well in the class that

when the final came it was out of 12 questions so there's 12 questions on the final i only answered eight because i needed a c to keep my a in the class so i was just like all right do the first eight just kill the eight and i like turned it in and was like yeah i'm good you know just to kind of get that one up like yeah you know i was still kind of very like i still had that like like that ego you know it just wasn't it was now transferred over here to to school now you know and so um and then so i joined my buddies for calc three in in the fall and then after that differential equations but this whole time i never really realized like i really love math like I enjoy math so much.

Like it's just something about getting a problem, no matter how long it takes me and little by little, like working and solving. Like, I get so much joy. I don't know why. I get a lot of joy. That's amazing, though, because I'm not like that at all. I think I had a, I think I failed a math class once or twice. Yeah.

I love, like, I will, like, I have books and on all types of, you know, different, math fields and like sometimes I'll just binge watch YouTube videos. I'm like I really enjoy math. And all my math classes I've done all well like all A's in every single math class. And it's because I just enjoy it, you know. And and so I tutored math. I tutored all, you know, from differential equations, linear algebra, all the calculus. I did that for years at Fresno City because I had essentially. in one year taking out all of the, you know, Calc 1 to 3 in differential equations in linear algebra because I had crammed it in the summer, you know, so I still needed to take

a couple other like physics classes and engineering courses. And so I basically just stayed there and tutored and went to class, did the rest of my courses that I needed. And one day, like I said, I didn't know I didn't at this time, like I knew I was going to transfer I knew okay, I could go to, you know, Fresnel State or whatever, you know. I thought like it would have to be

like California schools, you know, and the counselor calls me in and is like, yo man, like it's, you need to apply. Like, it's time for you to get the hell out of here, you know? And she sees how high my GPA was. And she's like, yo, you can apply to like any school you want to. And I was like,

oh, okay, like California. Like, what do you mean? Like, she was like, yeah, any school. And I was like, well, like, when you say any school, like, you mean out of state? And she was like, yeah, like any four-year university that accepts transfer students. And I was like, oh, shit, okay, like, dope, you know. And so, of course, I had to apply to Texas A&M, right? Because I just felt so drawn to the Aggies because of the football game.

But I applied to quite a few. And if I'm being honest, it was driven out of, part ego, but also part, like, mainly, like, I wanted to prove that I'm no longer a convict. Yeah. Right. Like, I'm no longer like this gang member. I'm no longer like this parolee, this, you know, guy with, you know, tattooed from head to toe. And when I say tattooed from head to toe, I mean, like, like, you know, prison gang tattoos, right?

Because there's a bunch of people that are comfortable with their tattoos and all that, right? And so I applied to a lot of universities and got into almost every single one. The only, I think there was like maybe three that I didn't get into. One of them, I was waitlisted, but there were, I was only waitlisted because I didn't take a chemistry class that they required. And that was University Illinois's Urbana Champaign. And they basically were like, yo, dude, if you can guarantee that you'll take this class during the summer, we'll accept you. I got into Georgia Tech, all for, these schools were for electrical engineering. Okay.

And I got into Georgia Tech, Texas A&M, UT Austin, UCLA, Fresno State, because I applied to Fresn State because, you know, that was hometown. And then I got into Stanford. And that was crazy. That was crazy because I really only, like I didn't know anything. Like, you know, like I just was like, okay, like can I get in? Like it's a private university. I think like at the time, like their transfer acceptance rate was like a little over 1%. Like it was, I didn't even, you know, think about it. But I applied because I heard like private schools were really generous with financial aid. And so I get. in, I get the acceptance, you know, I go to my student portal and bam, you know, you're accepted. And I was like, what the hell? Like, it didn't really like, I mean, even now, sometimes it doesn't really register. Yeah, like, sink in. Yeah, you know, people ask me, oh, what, what school do you go to? I'm like, oh, Stanford. And then even I have to be like, shit, I do go to Stanford. You know, like, oh, okay. And so I get in and I, right away, right away, I call my mom.

and I remember, so I called her, and I was like, mom, I got into Stanford. And she was like, stop. She's like, no way. She's like, what? She's like, are you being serious? I was like, no, mom, I got into Stanford. And she was like, oh, my, like, she, like, just started freaking out, right? And she was like, you know, praise Jesus.

And she was all happy and excited, yeah. And I felt like in that moment, like, oh, I was like, oh, yes, like now I'm, now she can be proud that I'm her son, you know, it's like, you know, that's no longer like, oh, hey, you know, where's, you know, when's Paul getting out? You know, oh, hey, you know, Paul, where's Paul at now? You know, what prison's he at now? You know, like, it's now like, oh, my son goes to Stanford, you know. So I felt, man, I felt super good after that call, right? Like, I felt like I was able to, like, kind of redeem myself with my mom and pay it back to her. Yeah, it's a full turnaround. Yeah, you know, um,

And so, of course, you know, I accepted Stanford, right? And, you know, I take off and go to Stanford and... Did they offer financial aid? Yeah. So that was, it was, that's one thing that, um, I feel like Stanford does well. Um, so if you make less than 150,000, everything is covered. Wow. Yeah. And, and so, uh, and they talk about that like, is. if your family makes less. But since I'm independent, it was on me. So since I made less than $150,000 a year. That's awesome.

Yeah, everything was covered. Room and board. It's amazing. Meal plan, tuition, everything. And then every quarter, I would get maybe a little less than $6,000. Okay. And they have three quarters, right? The autumn, winter, and spring.

And so every quarter, for the first two years, because that's guaranteed the first two years. Yeah. you you get that it's like a little it's like 50 a little over 5600 but you have food taken care of room and board taking care of so that's just like money that like right you put to the side you know or you like you know use if you want to do you know get some groceries or something you know and so I get to Stanford and quickly realize though that it's a different world it's a very different world than anywhere I've been. My first quarter there, the police would harass me.

Really? Yeah. Because they wanted it. They were like, what are you doing on campus? You know? And I'm like, I'm a student. You know? So, I mean, that, as weird as it sounds, didn't bother me as much because I expect that from the police.

Yeah. You know? But when it's faculty, like professors that are like, yo, what are you doing here? You know? Or like one time I was taking a class that was in the McMurtry building. And the only way you can get in is if you're taking a class in that building. So say I, even if I have my ID and I'm not taking a class in that building, I could be, and it's not going to let me into the building.

This guy sees me, tap, get into the building, go to the elevator, tap, push the third floor button. And then he's like, hey, man, are you a student? And I'm like, right. No, I just stole someone's ID so I could get into this freaking building, right? He's like, let me see your ID. And I was like, oh, really? And, you know, at the time, I was very, I was pretty pissed off. And maybe I shouldn't have done this, but like, I put it like right in his face.

And was like, here, man, here. Like, here, look at it. And there was like this electrician or like this guy working. And like, he noticed it and was kind of like, right? And he was like, and the guy asking, you know, the faculty member asking for my ID was kind of like, oh, okay. Now, like, he realized, like, oh, you know, maybe you shouldn't have done that. And the worker, I think he was like a maintenance man. Like I said, he was doing something, right?

He had a cart. And he brought up some sporting event. And he was like, oh, so how about that? And I just kind of like looked at him like, nah, bro. Like, you know, because I was pissed. I'm like, dude, if I was, you know, 18 blonde hair, blue eye, no tattoos, you know, would you ask me for my ID? you know and so that was my first year at Stanford I hated it I absolutely could I did not like it at all yeah it's like a completely new environment and adjustment yeah and like there are just so many

entitled kids yeah and I think too like you said like the judgment factor yeah towards you yeah my time there I've been able to um with bringing up my past I've been to prison you know did time I've been able to like see who's cool and it's like oh cool dude and they're intrigued. They're like, why, you're in prison? Like, is it like the movies and the shows? And like, you know, they're wanting to know all the, you know,

little details and then they're super cool with me. Or they just avoid me. After that, they're kind of like, oh, God, no, okay. And they won't deal with me at all afterwards, you know. But really what turned it around was my second year. I did a particular class. It's called sophomore college. And it's like a class that you take before the school year starts.

And John Polly from the electrical engineering department was teaching it along with Stephen Clark. And they're amazing. And that environment with them and then like how the other students were just hell of cool. We like became like this tiny like little close-knit community. And that was made me what made me stay at Stanford. Yeah. And then what was really awesome about that was because after that, all the other students that were in that class, we all took the same classes.

together. So I was like, oh, okay, cool. And then that's how I started to build a little community. Yeah, which honestly, that's important in any part of your life. Yes. Yes. Exactly. And then, of course, you know, I hang out with a lot of vets because they have similar, you know, traits as ex-cons, right? The dark humor, the, you know, it's, I mean, if you can't offend them, it's really hard to offend them. And so it's really the Soco community, the Soco class that I took, the kids from from that class and the vets that, you know, became my, my community. And after that, I kind of found like a little groove, you know, was introduced some amazing professors there, Jerry Kane, you know, Julie Zelensky, like, they're all amazing.

They're in the computer science department. And yeah, after that, it was like, okay, cool, this, I belong here. Like, this is my place, you know. Yeah, yeah. And then I just started networking. I started the same skills that I would use in the streets of, like, trying to find a better a better dope man, a better, you know, guy that has, you know, can get me cheaper guns or better guns or bigger guns, right? Like the same networking skills that I used in the streets and in prison I used at Stanford.

Yeah. You know? And so I ended up doing research for a while under John Pauley working on the wireless MRI. And that was fun. And that, I feel like that, that was at the end of my third year. That was kind of like what like really solidified and brought it together. Because it was kind of like, because Stanford's a big research university. Right.

And so I was like, I was able to say like, oh, yeah, I'm doing research with Professor Polly. You know, and so that really, and it's some pretty crazy, complicated stuff that we're doing. So it was kind of like, that was like what I needed at the very end to kind of be like, okay, no, dude, like you, you really, like you, you deserve to be here. You know, you, you, you belong here. And I think something I was going to say before, too, is it's important that you find a group of people that you can still relate to and be yourself with. Because even though, like, you've made this turnaround in your life, that doesn't ever mean that you should, like, change who you are, you know, deep down in the core and, like, have to bend who you are to fit into a certain niche of people. Yeah.

My buddy Jody, he is also X-Con, Stanford grad as well. and he graduated like my second year. And I didn't really know him until he had already graduated. But he's always on campus because he's doing, man, he's in, man, that guy is involved in everything. That guy knows how to move. And I always tell him, I was like, man, you learn that in the streets. And you're just now using it in Silicon Valley. And, you know, because he knows everybody at Stanford.

You know, he even helps teach a class. He's big into education and using like AI for education. And so it's so cool. when he does come to campus or when we do, you know, meet up, because I can say the funny stuff, you know, like a joke around and be like, yard recall or, you know, do some prison shit. And he knows and he's laughing, you know, and like everyone else around us is like, what the hell? He's been cool to have around. But yeah, you're right.

Like, you need to still, like, I can't completely just be like, oh, no, I'm no longer like this ex-convig. Yeah. No, like, it's still there, you know. And the moments that do remind me of that is when I'll have nightmares. So I have, you know, been diagnosed with PTSD, you know, stemming from my time in prison. And there will be times where I'll have that nightmare where I'm back in prison. And like, you know, here recently I had a nightmare where I walk into a, you know, unit and I immediately feel tension. I can see it. Like I can see groups of guys, right? And that's

always like a telltale sign that it's like something's going to happen. And as I'm walking by, like there's these group of white boys that walk by and they're like, yeah, man, like whichever one you want to book, you know, go ahead and get off, you know, and we'll follow suit. And I'm like, oh, they're going to hit somebody, you know. And then like in this dream, I turned around and they were staring at me. And so I'm like, oh, they want to hit me. I have no knife. And in this dream, I'm like, bro, but you were at Stanford. What happened? How the hell are you back in prison? You were in Stanford. And then like, I have to quickly like forget about that because like now I need a knife in the dream, right? And it feels so like it

I think it's true, you know? And so this particular dream, uh, a black man dropped down a knife and I got it. And I was thinking like, okay, if I'm, If they're going to take me out right now, then I'm at least going to take one with me. Like, we're going together. And in the dream, I run towards them and we start stabbing each other. And I think maybe after like the fourth or fifth time that they like stab me, I like force myself to like wake up. And I wake up and it's like the whole bed is drenched and like sweat, you know. And when that happens, I have to like tell myself like, no, that's just you're not, you're not a,

Because I'll start to think like, oh, man, you're still a convict. Like, you're still that, you had that mentality of, well, go get a knife. And, you know, but then I have to, like, quickly realize, like, no, that's, you were thinking like that because you were in prison. Also, that's survival mode. Yeah. You know?

Yeah. And I think, too, you probably have those nightmares and dreams now because there's more at stake. Like, you have something that you value so much and you're so proud of. And I think that subconsciously, like, our mind has this fear of, like, well, I could lose it all, you know? And it's like we almost revert back to worst case scenario of our lives. And that's just like what our subconscious brain does. It takes us back there.

And I think it all just stems down to that in the back of your mind, that fear of losing it all. Yeah. Because you value it so much. And that's just kind of how the brain works sometimes. Yeah. No, that's very true. And it's, now that you say that,

that I agree with you so much on that because I now have things lined up. Right. I'm graduating next quarter. Right. You have things going for you. Yeah. I'll be out in Houston working. But that's good because it shows that you've broken that cycle within yourself. Because before it was like, if I get out, like, I could just go back. You know what I mean? It wasn't. But now it's like things are at stake. Like you're making something of your life and you don't want to lose that or screw it up.

No. Yeah. No, for sure. Because I'm always like, I don't want to get. overly excited about stuff, right? Because in prison, you can't do that because at, you know, just like that, you can lose it. Right. Or like, you know, you go on lockdown or whatever, right? Because my job is with Phillips 66 as a midstream engineer. And the recruiter, I reached out to her because they told me I was going to have to do a background check. Yeah, that was my next question I was going to ask was about jobs and stuff. And so I told her, hey, I'm going to be honest. honest with you, I have a criminal record. You know, this is, it's, it's, it's, majority of it's pertaining to firearms.

And so she told me as long as it's older than seven years, I should be good. Okay. They go back seven years. And she was like, as long as it wasn't like a hate crime or like, um, murder, she was like, you, you should be okay. And the reason why I think I'm okay on that is because before I did research, um, The previous summer before I did research, I worked with Chevron as an engineer. And that was an internship.

And the same thing with them, you know, when they said, hey, you got to do a background check. I told them like, hey, I have a criminal record, you know. But I'm assuming that they had the same thing. Yeah. It only went back seven years because I caught my case at the end of 2008, like the beginning of 2009 and I wasn't convicted until 2010. And so, you know, Chevron was 2021. You know, that was 11 years. So I'm assuming with Phillips 66, I should be good. Yeah. Which reminds me of this hilarious story that I feel like I need to tell. Here recently, not too long ago, I want to say

maybe seven months now, six, sometime this year, right? Everything seems just, just to be like, a blur. I had to go to the DMV to renew my license or get my license. And, you know, I have my ticket, you know, they call my number, and I go up to the counter, and it's an Indian lady working. And I hand her my ticket, and she does not even say, good afternoon, how are you doing? What can I do for you?

Like, none of that. she just immediately jumps into like, oh my, she's like, why do you have so many tattoos? And she's like looking at my arms and my, in like my face and my neck, right? And she's like, she's like, how are you going to get a job? She's like, what, like, what are you going to do with your life? And I was like, and I don't, I mean, because, you know how sometimes like Indians will like move their head when they talk? I don't know if it was like her mood, like that was just normal for her or if she was just like shaking her head like, oh my God, you know? but I was like okay some people I don't think have like a uh not having a filter isn't the

word like they don't have common sense yeah no yeah they don't like they like I don't even imagine even if you think something most people wouldn't say something bizarre yeah no it was very and I was like oh okay like good afternoon to you too tell me how you really feel exactly but then I was like I'm not going to let this slide no no I'm not letting this side. I was like, well, I was like, I'm at Stanford studying electrical engineering and I'll be working as an engineer when I graduate. And she just was like, what? Like, she could not believe it, right? It was like, I grew another head out or something. Clearly, you taught her something. Yeah, no, she like, and then after that, it was weird. She was, it was, oh, you have a good day, sir, and this, sir.

And then I was just like, oh, that's what you needed to know about me in order to, like, value. me or respect me, you know what I mean? And so here lately I've been thinking like, does the Stanford degree and in particular an engineering degree from Stanford, does that now kind of erase my past? Does that now, you know, erase these tattoos? Am I now accepted in society? Do I now belong in society? Am I now a good person? Am I a good man now because I can say, hey, look at this degree that I got from Stanford. Because whenever I wear a Stanford engineering shirt, it's the same thing. Random people on campus, I don't even know.

Oh, hey, good morning. I'm like, oh, good morning. And I'm thinking of myself, like, do I know this person? And I'm like, I've never seen them before, you know? Or it's like, you know, people will, they're a whole lot more courteous. Like, I'll get more smiles. I'll get more good mornings. I'll get more like, oh, how's your day today?

And I'm just like, random person talking to me. okay, yeah, no, it's good. Yeah, okay, cool. But if I don't wear it and I wear like, I don't know, a tank top and some chucks and like some shorts, you know, now it's like people don't even want to look at me, you know? And so, again, you know, I always go back to like, does that degree now earn your respect? You know, like, can I now, you know, sit at your table? Because I, you know, because not only did I go to Stanford, but I majored in one of their hardest, you know, fields. And it's like, do I need that just for that? Or like, if I didn't have that, would you still treat me the same way?

And like, obviously not, right? Because I've seen it, you know, so I don't know. Now that I'm a little older and, I guess, wiser, if you want to say, I do a lot more, like, reflecting on things. And so that's, like, the main thing that I've been, like, chewing on lately was, like, You know, does that degree, you know. And I think, too, something that you'll probably realize through this experience, because your experience is different than the typical per se, you know, like, I think that you're going to go through these waves of kind of reflecting on just different

interactions that you have and different, just different points throughout this journey. You're going to reflect and kind of evaluate differently than a typical person that just went to Stanford would. But I think that that's very normal to evaluate and think about and reflect on. I also think it's important to because I think that it kind of, it seems like you're somebody that likes to break things down and understand. And that's a good thing. And I think that the further along you get in your journey, you'll start to do less of that because you'll have that understanding and you'll have a better knowledge of just, you know, your specific journey. And breaking stigmas around everything.

But I think that one of your purposes is meant to serve to break that stigma. To kind of, you know, like you said, to be there as this mentor and kind of inspiration for other people that have maybe gotten into trouble or that think that there's no hope because they have this label on them. Because at the end of the day, like, I mean, people that don't even haven't even necessarily like gotten into trouble even I mean as you've seen having tattoos gives you a label and you know creates this look that people give you and judge you differently and you know by the clothes you wear by the way you speak and everything in between so I feel like you kind of

serve the purpose in a way to show people look it it doesn't matter where you come from what you done what your background is what you look like what you wear but you have the ability within yourself to be whoever you want to be. Yeah. You know, but I think that you kind of going through these different seasons of kind of sitting and reflecting on things and just being like, yeah, like, yeah, recently that's what I've been thinking about or kind of trying to understand. I think that's very normal.

I feel like it's way better that you do that because then you don't have this imposter syndrome completely, which is very easy to get. But I feel like it's important that you kind of self-reflect. and reflect on these different interactions. Because even that too, I think that gives you a better understanding of how twisted our society can be. Because some people, like I said, it's important that people even know that,

you know, sometimes you don't, while yes, it's good to have a voice and speak up, you don't always have to say what's on your mind. Like it's just, it's unnecessary, it's bizarre. And, you know, for as hard as you've worked and as much as you've, you know, tried to, not erase, but kind of make up, for lost time.

Yeah. To have somebody kind of say things like that to you, it can be a slap in the face or piss you off. And even like the card thing you were talking about, like, well, yeah, we can look back and be like, yeah, I probably shouldn't have reacted or gotten mad. I think that that's kind of, we're human. Yeah. Like humans react sometimes and we can only learn from it, but that would piss anybody off, I think.

Yeah. And it does become like a slap in the face. Yeah. No, for sure. Yeah, you're right on that. And I feel like moving forward, like I want to help those that were like had the same mindset and they were in like the same, you know, headspace as I was when I paroled where they think like, nah, dude, I'm a convict. I'm, you know, tatted up or the, you know, to like show them just how powerful like education is and how education is a way to like find that self-worth again, right? Like it's a it's a way to kind of like. prove to yourself, not just society, not just others, your family, whoever, right, but prove to yourself like, nah, I am capable of great things. I am achieving great things. I often tell people that, you know,

there's parallels in a lot of things that we do as humans. For us in prison in the gang life, it's earning a tattoo. It's, you know, working with, if, you know, you have higher, if you do have like some structure to your organization, right? It's like climbing up those ranks, right? Whereas like on Stanford campus, it's a student with an invidia backpack to show like, oh yeah, I work at invidio or I did an internship at an invidia, right? Or a Google or Apple backpack. And, you know, in one of my classes that I'm taking, there's a student that does that as a VDIA backpack. but he also has like his ID, like his employee card, like his ID attached to the backpack. And it's like, bro, okay, we get it.

Like you're at in video. Okay. Like, you know what I mean? Like, all right, bro. Like, cool. You know, lay off the gas. But it's the same thing, right? Like it's, it's, you know, I've seen people that were like that in prison, you know,

trying to move up in ranks. And just because it's Stanford doesn't mean that you don't have criminals there, you know. look at Brock Turner, freaking piece of shit rapist, you know, um, you have professors, you know,

scamming, uh, their friends out of 19 million dollars. Yeah. You know, um, Theranos, look at Toranos.

They both went to prison. I mean, it could be anywhere in anyone. And that's, that's always the case too. Exactly. And it's like, you know,

you should, you guys should be looking at them. Right. Because they're coming, they're taking everybody's money. Yeah. It's not always the guy that's tatted up. Yeah, exactly. I mean, also, too, that college admissions scandal.

You know, that's why I tell everyone like, yeah, I got into Stanford and I didn't have to join the sailing team, you know. But it's like, you know, now that I've accomplished that, it's like, how can I now make sure that I help others out? You know, maybe they won't get into Stanford, but they'll get into Berkeley or, you know. Well, I think the thing is, UCLA or even if it's something as simple as just helping encourage people to break the cycle. because I think nine times out of 10, we do what's easiest and comfortable. And it's very easy to stay in a pattern that we're familiar with. It's like if you compared at one point in your life, if you compared the route that you're on now with the route that you were so familiar with,

you knew you had a community, you had a group of your friends. You would obviously probably choose that because that's what you were comfortable with. You already knew it. And it was the easier choice. Yeah. Everything was just right there. So why, I think for some people, it's like, why would I start over again? Or why would I make the harder choice?

And why would I make that choice if I don't even know if I'm going to have opportunity in it with the record that I have? Or the past that I have. So I think that even if it's just as simple as, which honestly, I don't even like to say the word simple because that's a huge, breaking a cycle on its own is a huge accomplishment. So I think even helping someone do that is a first huge step that a lot of people might need. that push and that motivation and they might not even know that that's a possibility or something that, you know, people might think, oh, this is just my life. Like, there's no getting out of it. Yeah. That's very true. I've seen that time and time again. Even with some of my friends that started at, like went to Fresn City just fell right back in. Yeah. Because they didn't, they didn't

pull themselves away from that. Right. You know, they were still, they were straddling the fence, you know, and you can't do that. You cannot straddle the fence. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, never ends well. Because you're going to, on one, actually on both sides, you're going to have your, your doubters. You're going to have someone that doesn't fully like trust you because they're like, bro, you're still doing, you're still going to school. And then people over here are like, man, you're still hanging out with gang members.

And in the mix and they're rolling around with guns. And if they get arrested, you're going to get arrested because you're already validated. You know, it's like you need to distance yourself from. that, you know, so, but again, it's the easy thing. It's the, it's what you know. Yeah, exactly. It's what you've done your whole life. Right. And when are you set to graduate? So I will be done after the winter quarter, which ends like March 14th. Okay. And I don't walk until, I don't do the celebration until like the middle of June. Okay. But this year. This, this coming. Yeah. Yeah. That's coming year. 2025. That is so excited. Congratulations. That's really

amazing. That's incredible. Yep. That's a lot of hard work. And obviously you're smart as shit. Yeah. Yeah. Because a lot of people, I couldn't do it. And that's the other thing is like that just goes to show too. Like that doesn't what you, the decisions you make, even if they might not be the best ones, that doesn't define someone's knowledge or, you know, wisdom. Yeah. Very true. Very true. Yeah. You should be proud. No, I am. Thank you. Thank you. I am. But it, it's just now. hitting me. Yeah. You know, because I've always had my blinders on where it was just like school, school, school, school, school. And there will be waves, like you said, there will be times where you're

just like going forward, not really thinking. And there's going to be times where you probably reflect or like when you have those nightmares. I feel like sometimes things like that can ever so slightly bring everything to hold or kind of make you reflect back on not so positive thoughts. but I think it's more so about, like I said before, accepting it and facing it, but then getting yourself back on track and be like, all right, yes, that's part of my life and journey, but I'm here now and we're just going to keep moving forward. And to give yourself credit where credit's deserved because, you know, everybody can look back at times in their lives when they've hurt somebody, you know, obviously some worse than

others, but the only thing we can do is move forward and learn from those things and do our best to be the best version of ourselves. Yeah, true. And you've been on that path. Yeah. And that's something to be really, really proud of. And there's a lot of people that you're going to help for sure. I mean, you truly are an inspiration.

And I feel like there's not many people that have the strength and willpower to break a cycle and get out of that lifestyle. Yeah. Thank you. And I think, too, like, there's a lot of, like, going back to what you said about the ego thing, there's a lot of people that aren't willing to let go of that ego. Like they want to be seen as just this strong, don't fuck with me, guy or girl even. Yeah. You know, they don't want to let that go because they might have that fear of it makes them look weak.

Yeah. And I feel like you also go to show that getting yourself on the right path and getting an education doesn't make you weak. It's actually the opposite. Yeah. It's been the hardest thing I've had to do. do. Right. And it's been tougher in some ways than solitary confinement, you know, fighting. It pushes you in a completely different way. And one that you're not used to at all. Yeah. And one that's like there's almost more at stake. Seems never ending. Yeah. True. True.

You know, like because you value it so much more. Yeah. That it's almost like the pressure is even more intense. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. No, it's been it's been super, super tough. But, and I don't want to get what they call a senioritis. where I'm like, oh, I just need to graduate because I already have this job lined up. Yeah. But I'm kind of like, I don't, you know, just finish, you know. And you're so close. Yeah, yeah. But no, that's really amazing.

And, you know, like I said before, I think your whole story is incredible for so many different reasons. And I think it's really one that goes to just break the stigma. And like I said as well before, it's something where it, I think it gives people very, real inside look on on the life that you had like being in prison and being in the gangs and stuff like that. But at the same time, it shows that at the end of the day, you're, you're just a guy that's trying to make his life better, like turn it around. Yeah. Not only for yourself, but your family. And I think that sometimes that's the most rewarding thing that we can do for ourselves. Yeah, no, for sure. For sure. And I think sometimes it's,

I don't know. I mean, it's, it's very much needed if you in a way need to like prove to yourself or show to yourself like you are capable of great things, right? Like, yeah, you said it's a long journey. It's a, it's super challenging. But if you know, like at the end of the day when you finish, it's, it's something that will then start to just break that cycle and change your mindset on how you view yourself, right? like I no longer see myself as this gang member, criminal. You know, there's some times where like, you know, some of my friends will joke around and I'm like, oh, hey, what's up, Looney?

And I'm like, oh, my God. No, I'm trying to let him go. Yeah, but they're like missing around, you know, whatever. Or like there's sometimes where I'll see like an old homeboy that just got out and, you know, he's not really familiar with what I'm doing. Oh, hey, Looney. And it doesn't, it doesn't, you know, it doesn't bother me. And that's the thing.

I think that there's a point, a healthy point in your life where you're able to just let things like that, just like roll off the chest. Do you know what I mean? You're like, yeah, it's there. It's part of who I was. It's funny. Like, you know, in its own way. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. And I mean, I have it tattooed on me. So it's like, it's never going to go away, you know. And I'm able to do that now because I've, you know, kind of proved it to myself that I was capable of great things to change and, and, and, you know, move forward in a better way with my life, you know. So I'm just excited to see where life takes me after this. Right. And I always tell people, I mean, you know, it's just the beginning.

And it's true. Like even no matter how old you are where you are in life, I think we're constantly evolving. We're constantly changing. And we always have, we can always give ourselves as many opportunities as we want. You know, and I feel like while yes, the schooling aspect has been years long, it's like that that was one chapter. and now you're on to a next chapter. Yeah. So it's like it's constantly this like new beginning,

which is I feel like the most exciting thing because we never know what's in store. And you can make it as good or as bad as you want it to be. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And speaking of chapters, that's what I'm working on as a memoir.

Really? Yeah. Oh, that's amazing. I love that. Yeah. That's great. Yeah, that's in the works right now. I will start piecing it together a lot better.

Probably like January. Mm-hmm. I'm just working like on the structure. I, because in networking connections, I have a book coach now. And she's, she knows her stuff. That's incredible. Yeah. So she's, she's helping me put that together.

Yes. Yeah. So. That's awesome. Yeah. And I think, too, the more ways that you can share your story and your experience, the better. You know, I think that, and I say this also, that there's, there's a lot of things, you know, documentaries and podcasts.

And I feel like a lot of times it's like these, what we were saying before, these like big extravagant stories that just pull you in. But I feel like the more real and authentic people that are just like your everyday people that are able to get their story out there and share it, I think those are the stories that other people can really relate to the most because it feels like, oh, like, I'm just like this person. It's almost like listening to a friend or it just is very relatable. And I think it gives people a lot of courage and wisdom.

And even if their story is completely opposite of yours, I think it gives them the courage to own up to their own journeys and their own stories and be like, you know what, if they can confidently, you know, share their story and share who they are without, you know, doubting themselves and without, like, disappointment in yourself. Like, you know what I mean? Like being able to confidently say, like, this is me. This is my story. But this is where I am now. I think that shows other people that they could do that as well and they could use their voice. And it doesn't matter how different someone's background is.

It could be something completely opposite and completely different, but it makes them feel like, wow, like if he could speak up and feel like he can voice what he's been through and where he is, like I could do the same. You know, I shouldn't hold back and I shouldn't feel negative about myself or who I am or who I was. Yeah. Yeah.

And also, too, lets them know that it is achievable. Yeah, for sure. You can do anything you set your mind to. And it seems it doesn't always seem possible because I think that as humans we like to, it's easier to kind of gravitate towards the bad and the negative. Yeah. But I think if we can push ourselves to go more towards the positive and realize that we are fully in control of our reality, the more great things we can do and accomplish. Yeah, for sure. Was there anything else you wanted to add? Did you get it? No, no, that's pretty much it. You really did amazing. I enjoyed this so much. I enjoyed this so much. You should be so proud of yourself.

It was incredible. It's always like these episodes that I'm like I love because it's so different. And I feel like when I started the show, I always said like I want the show to have so much diversity in depth to it. And I love when like I said, when these hardcore men reach out to me and they're like, I'm ready to share my story. I'm like, yes, bring it on. Because it really does. It breaks that mindset that people have or like, like I said, my favorite thing is when my cats come and they sit on these guys laughs and it's like, you know, like, yes, these men are here to talk. and share because like and that's a thing too even for like even for men I think so many men are

afraid to speak up and share their stories and I think that it's really important that men know that that it doesn't make them a pussy or weak to yeah Priscilla to share you know their life story yeah yeah yeah I'm I don't know she bothers you push her up but you know what I mean like I feel like a lot of guys they just like they're I feel like society makes men feel like oh you gotta be like this hardcore guy. Like, don't share your emotions. Don't, don't, you know, get vulnerable. Yeah. Yeah. The whole, you know, pick yourself up by the boots. Right. Yeah, no. And that's how you were raised. So it's, I think it's even more, you know, incredible that you're able to sit here and just be like, I'm going to, I'm going to own it. And I'm, you know, I'm proud of who I am today.

And as you should be. So. Thank you. Thank you. You did such a great job. Thank you. Really. I loved it.