We're All Insane - Groomed At 13 Years-Old

Episode Date: February 13, 2023

CW: This episode contains descriptions of sexual assault and grooming. Grooming refers to the process of building trust and emotional bonds with someone, usually a child or young person, with the intention of sexually exploiting them. It is a form of manipulation and abuse that can have long-lasting, harmful effects on the victim's mental and emotional well-being. Grooming can occur in various forms, including online and in-person, and often involves the abuser of gifts, attention, and affection. It is a tactic used by perpetrators to gradually lower the victim's defenses and gain their trust, making it easier for them to exploit them. The harm caused by grooming can lead to feelings of guilt, shame, and self-blame, and can impact the victim's relationships and ability to trust others in the future. FREE-1 year supply of Vitamin D and 5 free travel packs with code INSANE: www.athleticgreens.com/insane Audience Survey: http://survey.podtrac.com/start-survey.aspx?pubid=3RJP1Q85a-_d&ver=standard If you have a unique story you'd like to share on the podcast, email [e-mail]. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, it's me DeVora. I just dropped an all new bonus episode inside my new subscription channel, We're All Insane Plus. This week's bonus episode is called My Brain was Slipping into my spine. Listen now by subscribing to We're All Insane Plus inside your Spotify or Apple Podcasts app or go to we're all insane.com. Welcome back to the show. Today's episode is sponsored by Athletic Greens.

They are giving you one year free supply of a website. vitamin D, along with five free travel packs with your first purchase, all you have to do is go to Athletic Greens.com slash insane. That is athletic greens.com slash insane. Enjoy the show. This episode contains content that may be disturbing to some viewers. My name is Erica, and I was groomed as a child. So I grew up in a suburban area in Pennsylvania, and my family was pretty middle-class. Like I had a pretty happy family. I had a small friend group, but it was all good. I would say my earliest memories go back to like when I was eight.

So starting from then, all I remember is just happy family life. Did you have siblings? I had two older sisters, yeah. And I had really good relationships with them. And your mom and dad were together? Yeah, exactly. But as the years went by, probably around like age 10, like some depression started creeping in and some anxiety.

And that's pretty young to experience that. So I feel like that's when I kind of relied on online forums and like online writing groups to try to like get some friends and get some social support and stuff like that. So that's when I began sort of isolating myself from my family, I'd say. I don't know if anybody knows the site, but it's called Quotev or Quizaz. Have you heard of that? Okay. So it's where you post like fan fictions or like short stories.

I was really into like the dark stuff. So I would post some horror stories that I was into. and I got a really good community of people. So that kind of helped me a little bit. But then my mother actually found one of my stories and she was like, oh, this is a bit dark. Like I don't think somebody at your age should be writing this. So you were 10 at this time. Yeah, exactly.

So that's when I got my computer wiped for the first time. And that made me feel like even more isolated. Yeah, because, like, that was kind of taken away from you. Exactly. That was, like, my whole friend group at that time. Yeah. And do you know where, like, the depression was coming from at this point, or it was kind of, like, random and sudden? Yeah, I would say that, like, I had no clue where.

Okay. I know that there's some mental illness on both sides of my family. So I feel like there's probably just a genetic, like, predisposition. Right. Genetic predisposition to that. but yeah, I can't say it was anything to do with my environment. So it's probably just something that I had coming towards me anyways. But yeah, so after I got that kind of support system taken away for me,

life was really hard for a few months. And that's when I discovered the wonderful site, Omigel. Oh, megal. Yeah. So all my friends were kind of on it at the time. And if anybody still doesn't know what it is, it's like a video chat site where you're basically randomly assigned to meet with another human being. They could be across the world. They could be in your city or anything.

So me and my friends from school, we would go on Omega for like hours. And we would usually like be paired up with like other older men and stuff like that. And at the time, we were just pretty naive about it. So it was kind of just something where we could get that validation to like feel like we are prettier. Like we were actually like, I don't know, something special because of course the old men are going to tell that to you. So that soon became like an addiction and a past time for me. I was on there for like hours every single day. just constantly talking to these older men

who are providing me with like validation that my parents weren't giving me at the time and so this was like from 10 to 12 that I was doing this and so one day when I was 12 I got paired with like a black screen which is pretty common on there because people don't have to show their faces Right. So I was about to, like, exit out of it.

And then I got a message through the site, and it said something like, I can see that you have a certain sadness in your eyes. And I was like, oh, like, somebody can see that I'm, like, depressed, which was pretty uncommon at the time because nobody could really see that I was sad except for me. So, yeah, I just felt really, like, seen in that moment. And so I continued talking to this person, whoever they were. And a common thing on O'Megel then was to send like your age, sex, and location, like, right when you got paired up with somebody. So I was like, I'm a female.

I'm 12 years old and I live in Pennsylvania. And they were like, oh, I'm an older male who lives in California. And I was like, how old are you? and they didn't say at that time point. So I just assumed they were older. But we continue just having like a really good conversation. So then later that night, I think that I texted him first. I don't know what order it was.

But we got to talking really late at night. And we started talking about like more kind of fringe stuff, I guess. He was asking me, like, my opinions on traditional, like, 1950s relationships. So that would be, like, when the man has more of a patriarchal stance to the woman, like, he kind of has all of the responsibilities in the relationships and also all the rights. And the woman is just kind of there cooking and providing, like, sexual services to her husband, basically. And, like, at this age, do you think that you, like, really, like, like understood what he was asking or what did it was it just kind of like not that deep to you.

Yeah, I didn't understand at all. Okay. What he was talking about. Right. This was like all new to me at this time because I was so young. So I was asking a lot of questions back to him. Like, what do you mean? Right.

And yeah, just like I don't know what you're talking about basically. So he basically got a lot of joy out of that. He was always excited like when I was telling him. I hadn't had my first kiss yet. I hadn't had my first boyfriend yet. Like I hadn't lost my virginity yet. He would always get really excited over text and be like, oh, that's perfect because it's better for a woman to like keep her virginity until she's older because then her husband can train

her in the way that's like ideal to him. Whereas maybe another girl who had more like sexual experiences would kind of have her own idea what she likes sexually. So he was really pleased with me at that point. And while all of it was like very jarring to me, I didn't really, I guess I was just, like, I was starved for affection. Like I just wanted him to like me. And it was the first person who had treated me like I was something special. Right. So even though I knew something was a little bit wrong, I just basically continued with it. Yeah. And it seems like it was, you know, it was filling some sort of void within you. Exactly. It was feeding something that you were lacking, like you said.

Mm-hmm. So I think at this point, I told, like, my school friends that I was talking to somebody and they were older. And they were very disapproving of the relationship. Because while we all did, like, the Omega thing and, like, met with guys online through that video chatting, like, none of them had taken it the step where now they're like individually chatting with somebody more personal so they were really worried for me and that's when my school friends started to distance themselves for me which of course just like pushed me farther into his arms um so yeah I would talk to him every day like hours all through text mm-hmm okay um there was some like phone calls and like like a few weeks down the line, we got into Skype calls.

So he started by basically giving opinions on the way I dressed. So I would have to send him pictures of what I was wearing to school, and he would usually say something like, oh, you shouldn't wear a bra with that, or you shouldn't wear that sweater over top of it. He just wanted me to dress more provocatively and, like, see the responses that I would get from it. Because his ultimate goal was just to, like, get me more used to, like, explicit stuff and stuff like that.

Yeah. Yeah. So after that, he also started monitoring what I ate because at that point, like, I was a normal weight, but he wanted me to be skinnier and he wanted me to start working out, so my body would look different. So I would have like an exercise regimen, I would have a certain diet I had to eat, and then he would also have to give approval for everything I wore to school. And that's when like the Skype call started picking up and that was more frequent maybe like

every three days or so. Do you think that at this time your parents picked up on like the exercising and diet stuff or not real or did you keep that kind of like to yourself? They definitely noticed. that I wasn't coming down for dinner as much anymore. But I think they just kind of thought it was normal, like, adolescent stuff. Right. Where you just are worried about how you look, basically.

They didn't know that I was talking to him. So they didn't know that it was being directed by somebody else. Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so after that, I feel like he started to progress in what he wanted from me. So when we'd get on Skype calls together, he would usually want me to take off my clothes for him. And if I didn't do it in the right way, I'd have to redo it. So it was like the most attractive, like a porn star, basically.

And then he would progressively like get me more towards masturbating in front of him and directing me on how to do that properly. And like, this was when I was 13 or 14, so I had obviously never done that before. So at this point, were you guys talking for like a couple years now? No, it was like all a matter of a couple months. Okay, got it. And you were 13 or 14. Okay.

So I met him at 13. Okay. And then at, I guess, 14 around there is like when things started to progress in the relationship. And he started getting into more of the grooming behaviors. So at that point, I was having these masturbation sessions on Skype with him every other day. And then he started to implement this thing where I would have to listen to these audio soundtracks when I would go to bed. That would basically just be messages of basically misogynist. messages that would just constantly be played and I was meant to listen to them two hours before

I went to bed all the way through the night and then two hours after I woke up. So for like 12 hours I'd be listening to a message just over and over again. Usually it'd be something like women are below men, women are meant to serve men, women are meant to sexually pleasure men, and just like all sorts of variations of that. So basically like he wanted you just actually start believing those things. Yeah, he was in the military originally and he would always tell me stories about like the psychological tactics they used in the military. I at this time didn't know if any of this was true, but like,

that's what I'm thinking he took like inspiration from in terms of how he tried to brainwash me and psychologically manipulate me. So after only like a few weeks of that, I feel like I started to actually believe those messages. And would he ever show you himself on Skype or was he always just like sitting and watching you? Yeah. So over text, he started to show me some pictures of him. and he was more forthcoming about being, I think at the time he was 45 and I was 14. And he also had a wife at the time.

And he told me all of that in a couple weeks of texting. But as for the Skype calls, he would always have like a black screen. Okay, so only your camera was on. Yeah, exactly. So you don't really know what he was doing. No. and he would usually record the Skype sessions, like, so he could watch them back later. I remember one time he accidentally did it on his work computer, he recorded it.

So it was like this huge thing, and that's why I know that he was recording me because he got really upset about that. And usually when he would get upset at me, like there'd be different, like, punishments and stuff. Like, sometimes I'd have to send him a picture. of me hurting myself or I would have to just not talk to him for an extended period of time because he knew that like his affection, his attention was like the most important thing to me. Yeah. Yeah. So after like these behaviors of his were escalating and he was getting more, more strict with

what I was allowed to do and not allowed to do, he started floating the idea that he wanted to meet me because he wanted to see how effective his training was so far and he wanted to see like my worth basically thus far. So he lived in California at that time and his wife didn't know about our relationship. So his plan was that he was going to come to Pennsylvania on a business. trip. And that made sense because he did have like businesses all across the country at that point. So it wouldn't be that suspicious if he told his wife that he didn't have kids, right? No, he didn't have kids. So at that point, he basically was like talking me through what I would

need to do to be prepared for when he came. So the first thing was that I had to book like, a taxi company because I obviously couldn't drive and I needed to get to the hotel that we were planning to meet at. So I had really bad anxiety at that point of my life. So like thinking about calling a taxi company was like the worst thing in my mind. What was your plan as far as your parents went? Like what were you going to tell them? Yeah.

So that's what he instructed me on too. Yeah. He basically gave me a script of what to tell my parents that I was at one of my friends' birthday parties basically. Yeah. So I booked the taxi and I told my parents that I was going to have a birthday party on that day or my friend was going to have a birthday party. And then so the day came.

My parents were both at work and the taxi company called me and said that they were outside my house. So I go outside. I get in the cab. the taxi driver kind of gives me a strange look because I'm really young to be in a cab by myself, especially when it's going to a hotel. Were you nervous to meet him? Yeah, I was really nervous because it was all like almost going to become real.

Right, exactly. Was it coming to life, were you excited at all to meet him or was it more like nerves, would you say? I think it was a mixture. I was excited, but I was also nervous. Just because at this. point, I thought we were just going to kind of like talk. And yeah, that didn't end up being what happened. But yeah, I was excited for what I thought it was going to be. So yeah, anyways, they drive me to the hotel and he basically instructed me that when I get

to the receptionist, I'm supposed to tell the receptionist that I'm blank's friend. And when I tell them that, then they'll give me like a key card to the hotel that he had booked. So I told the receptionist and she didn't even like blink. Like she was not phased at all, which looking back on it is really disappointing to me because I feel like there should have been some suspicion. A little bit of a red flag, right. Did she ask for any information or just kind of was like she just gave you the card? No, no. I just said his name and then she gave me the card, nothing that she needed from me which was crazy. And he also had told me what I was supposed to wear that day.

So he told me that I was supposed to wear leggings, a white tank top that was see-through without a bra. And then like my school jacket. So like it would have been clear to the receptionist that I was like in high school. But anyways, yeah. So then I go up to the hotel room. And he already had a. his stuff there, but he was at like a business meeting. So I was kind of just in the room by myself.

And that's when I started to get some more nerves because I could see all of his like bags there and I was like like something really bad could happen if this goes awry. So I decided to look in his bags to see if there was anything like a gun or like restraints that would be super like off-putting to me. there ended up being nothing in the bags and so I texted him that I was there in the hotel room so he should have been there in about like 15 minutes but that's not how things happened I was waiting for about three to four hours just sitting in the hotel room yeah just sitting on the couch with my nerves like completely crazy um and at like like

the fourth hour he texted me that he had just parked down below. So at this point, I'm like, my heart's beating so fast. I'm hyperventilating, just really, really nervous. And about two minutes later, the door, like, swings open. And, like, the look on his face when he walked in was just like pure annoyance at me. Like he was absolutely infuriated and he kind of just like spit in my direction like wire your clothes on. Like just very surprised and upset. And at that point I was just confused and speechless because I didn't know that I wasn't

supposed to have my clothes on. Plus you were waiting four hours. Yeah, exactly. Like I was kind of annoyed at that point. But anyways, he said that he was going to take a quick shower. And by the time he was out of the shower, I had better have all my clothes off or he was never going to speak to me again. And he didn't want to ever see me again.

And he was saying all this pretty like stern. Yeah. And it's important to note he was like 6'3, like very muscular dude. Like, so hearing that is very intimidating. dating for me as a 14-year-old. So he got in the shower and I was shaking on the couch and I just decided to follow what he said because I didn't really see a way out for myself unless I just followed what he said. And he also told me that when he got out of the shower, I needed to be with my knees on the

couch, like, facing away from him. Like, that's the position he wanted me in. Um, so I took off all my clothes. I got on the couch in the position he wanted me to. And I hear him get out of the shower and open the bathroom door. And I can kind of hear the footsteps behind me. And that's when I'm, like, really anxious. Um, but so the first thing I feel, is he has like a sex toy that he's trying to put in my ass. So it was like an anal plug that he was trying to insert inside me. And I immediately pulled away because I was just so confused and so surprised. And instantly he slaps me.

Like in the face? No, in the ass basically. Yeah, because I was facing away from him. Okay. So yeah, he slaps me and says, like, not to pull away from him. And I'm pretty, like, dissociated at that point. So I just kind of stay there. And he proceeds with just, like, inserting it. And it's really painful because obviously I wasn't prepared for it. It was very traumatizing. And then a few minutes later, he tells me to get down on my knees. And so, I'm kneeling in front of him and he tells me that I need to perform oral sex on him. I had never done anything like that. I've never even kissed somebody. So I instantly tell him no. And he punches me straight across the face and says, I hope I didn't hear you say that word because he hates the word no. I was never allowed to say that word. So I'm on my side and my ears

like ringing at this point. And I realize it's not an option for me to say that. So he basically takes me by like the back of my hair, like kind of like grips on to the back of my hair and just forces me to perform oral sex on him. Then after a few minutes of that, he like throws me on the bed and he anally reaps me. So at that point, my heart just, like, completely breaks. And, like, mentally, I just detach. So I can't even, like, when I'm thinking about this, like, I'm not even there fully.

I kind of see it in, like, a third person point of view. Because, yeah, I just completely dissociated. So I know it, like, went on for a fair bit of time. but eventually he finished and he went to the bathroom, got a towel, like cleaned everything up. And I was just laying on the bed, and he kind of like yells at me, like, why don't you want to cuddle me? Like, why don't you want to come up here and cuddle me? And at that point, I wasn't really feeling any emotions. So I just did what he said.

and he tried to make small talk about how I was doing in my high school classes. And within like three minutes, I basically got up and was putting my clothes on, just telling him that I wanted to leave. Hey, I'm Jeremy Schwartz from American Criminal. On this season, robbery gone wrong or cold-blooded murder. Either way, Boston will never be the same. Listen to American Criminal, the murder of Carol Stewart, wherever you get your podcasts. or to get early at free access,

subscribe in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or at Americancriminal.com. During all this, were you, did you ever, like, cry or you were just completely, like, kind of shut off from it all? Yeah, I just had no emotions. Got it. Like, I was completely speechless

and also just, like, confused. And I'm sure you were in pain. Yeah, I was in pain. I felt betrayed. I also felt isolated because, I couldn't tell my friends about this. They already disapproved of him. I couldn't tell my family about this

because they also didn't know anything that was happening. So I felt that anything that happened in that moment was my fault and something that I needed to deal with on my own. So, yeah, I think that's, like, when I really started using, like, dissociation as, like, a coping mechanism for my feelings because I just couldn't handle them anymore. So I started getting ready to leave and he was okay with that because I think he was just like happy that he was able to finish and everything.

Yeah, that what he wanted. Yeah, exactly. He didn't argue. I started walking to the door and he grabbed me by my arm and said, give me a kiss goodbye and kind of just like forced me to kiss him before I left. So that had been my first kiss and then that had also basically been like my virginity that he took. So as I was going down the elevator down to the hotel lobby, I started crying. Like that's when all the emotions started flooding me.

And I remember walking through the hotel lobby and the receptionist was like trying to like avoid my gaze. and he had called a taxi for me. So the taxi was waiting for me. I went in the taxi and the driver was like instantly asking me, what's wrong? What happened? Like, are you okay? And I just kind of played it off like, oh, I'm fine. Like, I have allergies, like something silly like that.

And I told him to drop me off at my elementary school. because that was a couple blocks from my house. So I figured that within those couple blocks, I could kind of like regain my composure for when I had to see my family. So he dropped me off at the elementary school, which he really didn't want to do because it was completely empty and he was confused like, why do you want me to drop you off here? But I kind of just told him there was a school event there.

and I started walking home and that's when I called my abuser, I guess, and I was basically just crying and asking him what to do because I couldn't suppress my feelings anymore and I was worried that my parents were going to find out what happened and what he did to me. And he just started screaming at me through the phone and telling me that I need to stop crying because they were going to figure it out if I kept crying.

So he hung up and I like wiped my tears, tried to fix my makeup. And I eventually walked through into my house and my family was all sitting down like eating pizza together and they were like laughing and having so much fun. And I just like yelled to them like, oh, I'll be down in a couple minutes. and I raced up to my room. And when I was in my room, I saw that, like, I had a bruise on my face from when he punched me. So I quickly, like, covered it up with makeup. And then I went down to my parents and started telling them how I had such a good time at my friend's birthday party. After that incident, he basically continued to progress, like, the training that he wanted me to go through.

So in addition to everything that I was doing before, he also wanted me to begin to see other men. So he made me sign up for three different websites. One of the websites was more, or I guess I'll just say, the first website was Tumblr. So he made me sign up for Tumblr and he would make me post. naked photos of myself and then in the description I would say if you like this photo

go to this wish list and were your face in these pictures no they weren't okay so that was always like a hard limit for me and him because his like aspirations for me was to be

his living slave as he would call it so he wanted me to live with him and his wife and basically just function as a sex slave for him and his wife. But the wife didn't know at this time, right? Or do you think she did? No, but it became clear in like a little bit into the story. So yeah, the first website was Tumblr and he'd make me post pictures without my face.

And different men would go into my wish list. And they would buy the sex toys that he would tell me to put on the wish list because he basically wanted me to train up to being able to take, like, bigger and bigger sizes, not only anally, but vaginally too. And yeah, so the next website was more like BDSM related. So I would also post the same photos on there. And it was kind of like a Facebook, but for like BDSM purposes. And I got popular on there like very, very quickly. So like thousands and probably tens of thousands of people were following me on there. And then the third website was more oriented towards men who wanted to pay to like have the company of different people.

So on that website is where I met primarily the majority of the men that I then saw. So he would tell me like, oh, you should meet up with three men this week and they should all pick you up at your high school. You should skip the last period of class and get in the car and they'll take you to a location. and then you have to showcase like how good your training was. Our sponsor for today's episode is Athletic Greens. I love AG1 not only because of its great taste, but also because of the way it makes me feel. I start my mornings with one scoop of AG1,

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and five free travel packs with your first purchase. Go to athletic greens.com slash insane. That is athletic greens.com slash insane. Check it out. So he wanted you to be having sex with these men. Yeah, exactly. Did he want it like filmed or anything or he just would want to hear about it from you? He would want me filming afterwards, but he didn't want me to film during because he thought

it would be a deterrent like the men. For sure. Yeah. So one of the first times I ever did it, the man picked me up at the library of my school and I had skipped last period to see him. And then we went to a Starbucks where he like bought me a tea and was asking like how old I was. And at that point I think I was like freshly 15. And he was really into that.

So these were all like older men. Yeah, they were like in their 40s, 50s, 60s. Yeah. And they would just take me to different locations. Would they pay you? No, not at that point. point. Okay, so it was just like meeting up. Okay, got it. Yeah, exactly. Um, yeah, and usually what they would meet up for, it would be like oral sex. Um, and then they would always try to pressure me to do more.

Um, but usually I wouldn't do anything more than oral sex at that point. Um, so that obviously wouldn't have, like, pleased, um, my abuser. So I would tell him that I had sex like five, times that week with different men. Right. When I really only, like, had oral sex with one or something like that. And that would keep him pretty happy. And so, yeah, things just continued like that for about two years. So from, like, 14 to 16, I was just posting on these websites, seeing various different

men every week, as well as, like, abiding by his other words. rules. And the Skype sessions were like training me to like deep throat and like deep throat for like two hours or something like that. Like very just intense things. So yeah, at 16 is when I met him for the second time. He came back for business again. The same deal, the same hotel. I just did everything the same. But that time he raped me vaginally. So he took. He took. my virginity in a different way. So he just wanted to like be the first of everything basically. And that time ended really badly because I was kind of getting more argumentative to him during that time when we were at the hotel room. And he kind of led me to believe that he had a lot

of other young girls that were doing the same things as me. And he was operating under the logic that if I wasn't completely compliant with everything he asked me to do, then why did he even want to bother with me? He was just going to dispose of me and kind of move on to the other girls who were more submissive towards him. And at this point, do you think you were still reliant on, like, him and his attention, even though it was like, okay. Yeah, I definitely was because I was just like the black cat in my family.

And, yeah, I wasn't getting a lot of attention for my friends because they had all completely cut off ties with me because at that point, rumors were going around at school that I was a slut and nobody really wanted anything to do with me. They just thought that I was gross and stuff like that. So yeah, the second time was pretty bad. And at that point, he started to use external manipulation to try to make me comply with him. so he told me that every time I said no to him or disobeyed him, he was going to send me a video of him

abusing his wife. And the first time that I did that, he sent the video. He sent me a video of his wife in a complete mask except for her mouth. And he was just completely degrading her, spitting on her. punching her. And at the end of the video, like, he seemed to rape her, like, without her consent. So as... And this was all, like, your fault, according to him.

Yes, exactly. That's what was happening because of what I did. So as a 16-year-old, like, I felt completely like it was my responsibility because I didn't really have those decision-making skills. And I didn't really understand what he was doing to me. So I kind of just fell back into line. I started obeying him more and more and more and just doing whatever he wanted me to do. We were in the same, like, happy space.

But it was very apparent to me that he had a hierarchy of other girls. And while I was, like, high up on the hierarchy, like, he would always warn me that there was somebody who's doing the tasks better than me. and he would send me pictures of the girls that were doing things better than me and saying, like, you should be doing this. Why aren't you doing this task like I want you to? And so on. It was at this point that he also wanted me to start like recruiting other girls from my high school. So I immediately was like no to that because I knew what it was.

what bad it had caused in my life, and I wasn't about to, like, put that on somebody else. So I created, like, a couple of other numbers on my phone, and I would text him from those numbers and send, like, pictures from off the web, like, pretending to be other people. So he wouldn't want me to, like, recruit more people. He thought that I had already, like, gotten two new girls, and he was happy with that. So later that year, I was meeting up with one of the men that he had instructed me to see. And my mother called the friend's house that she thought I was at. And my friend was like, no, she's not here.

And everybody started to get really worried. And that's when my mother called the police. So, like about like three in the morning I looked at my phone because I had been with this man the entire night. And when I looked at the phone, there was like 72 missed calls, all from my mother, my father, my sisters, and everything like that. And that's when I realized that they had called the police. apparently my dad had been like in a fatal car crash is what I saw on my phone. So I immediately told the guy that I needed to come home. And when I got home, I realized it was a lie.

My dad was fine. But that's what the police had instructed my mother to tell me in order to get me back home. Because they thought that I'd like run off to be with some guy. My mother and my father wiped my phone. They wiped my computer because through calling the police, they had discovered that I was talking to all these different men that were much older than me. And they didn't really want me doing that. So they wiped my phone. And that's when I alerted my abuser that this was going on. And he completely cut ties with me at that point. So I haven't spoken to him since. then. Wow. I had been on the track in my high school to finish high school year early because that's what he wanted me to do. He wanted me to get out there as soon as I could. So it was around like my 17th birthday or something at that point and I was getting ready to finish high school. And that's when my parents announced that they were going to divorce. So that was kind of just like

the cherry on top of everything that I was going through. Yeah, it was a really rough time because I had always relied on him for my social support. And now I was going through something really big with my family. And I couldn't even reach out to him to kind of like ease that pain. Did you still have his number or like because they wiped your phone you didn't even? So I still did have his number because at that point I had memorized it. They wiped my phone. I got a new number.

But yeah, I tried to reach. out to him from like what I had memorized. But just from like how the texts were going through like I think he probably took away that number. Okay. Yeah. So I was just never able to contact him again after that. But yeah.

So my parents separated and I was going off to college and I chose to go to college in Canada. So that was like just a complete break from my family. I really wanted like more independence and stuff like that. I still had all the three like websites operational that like he wanted me to use. So I was still getting a lot of like men messaging me through there. I do have a question. When all of this happened with your parents and the cops, did your parents have like a sit down talk with you about everything that had been going on or like did you not even have to like explain everything that had happened up to that moment. Yeah, they did.

They thought I was kind of in the dark about it. They had printed out all my phone records and they were like... So they knew about this man. They knew at that moment. Like that was the first time. They found out I was talking to him. And did you tell them like how you met him and the age difference and all of that information or were you kind of vague with them about it?

So on like the phone records that they saw. it was kind of like a white pages report. So they see all the ages. Okay. And they see kind of the locations where they're at. So they did see that the majority of people in my phone contacts were older men. And they thought that I thought that they were all like boys my age. So they thought that I was just like being scammed or something on the internet and that I thought I was talking to boys my age.

So you didn't never really explain to them at this moment what really it had. happened. No, I just completely kept them in the dark because that's what I was trained to do at that point. He said that if it ever came up to my parents, I wouldn't be able to tell them. Okay. Or like he would kill my family type of thing. Like he would just use threats like that to kind of keep me away from telling them. So yeah, I went to Canada and I got in a dorm room with another girl and that was the first time that I ever had to live in the same room as somebody. So that already was starting to feel very like claustrophobic to me. And that's when I started to go on the one website where men would kind of pay money for like your company and stuff like that.

I would do that a lot more. So I started meeting up with these men like almost daily. it was pretty high frequency and I wasn't going to any of my classes at this point. But I was still doing okay academically because I was still studying. I just wasn't going to like classes. So yeah, most of those people were pretty fine actually. Like there was no significant stories from that, I would say. I was like turning 18.

And the day I turned 18, I went to a therapist's office because that was the first time that I wanted to get like mental health services because I knew that if you're 18, they didn't need like your parents consent and they wouldn't tell anybody anything of what you said. So I went to a sexual trauma therapist and he started like working through some of the issues that were going on from like my childhood and stuff. that was going on there. But, like, as many people know, therapy is, like, really slow moving. So even though I started going to my therapist, I also started getting into, like, the BDSM community in where I was living. So on that website that I was using, I met this man who was very well known in that town and he was very popular and I didn't know it at the time but he had a reputation for finding like the youngest girls the newest girls to the community and kind of exploiting them for his own personal gain so um at that point I'm talking to him he wants to arrange a meetup

and I think I took like a greyhound bus like two hours to go meet him because he was like in a different part of Canada than I was in. And you met him through the BDSM website? Exactly, yeah. And the first meeting we had was just like a sushi date and we basically just discussed like very normal things. But he kind of portrayed that his interest in me was to take me. me to different parties and like play events where we'd be going to like dungeons and be doing like very like hard VDSM stuff or not necessarily that I would be doing it but we would be like attending as a couple.

Okay. Like he basically wanted a location where everybody's there for that reason. Exactly. Yeah. So yeah. The first time that I went to one of those events with him, I was with another girl who was like 20 years old and I was 18 at that time. The legal drinking age there is 19. So I wasn't able to drink, but the first thing that he did when we kind of got there was order, I think, like, four drinks.

So two for me and two for the other girl. And I wasn't like a heavy drinker at that point. So that got me pretty like buzzed. So throughout that night, just imagine like a basement that's like kind of like a club. But everybody's in lingerie, everybody's like some people are kneeling on the ground with like collars around their neck. some people are naked some people are having sex like it was just one of those environments that was very open to anything how did you feel being there um it was like very new to me it was very off-putting um i didn't expect that at all yeah i thought it was going to be like a normal club

but everybody would just kind of have that shared interest but it was very out in the open yeah yeah um So, like, an hour into the evening, he tells me that I'm going to be on stage that night. So there was a stage in the middle of the basement that had, like, a cross, basically, that is used to, like, restrain people to. So, yeah, I didn't expect to have to do that. but he made it very clear that that's what I was there for. So eventually he gets me up there. He tells me to get naked except for like the high heels I was wearing. And then he put on a blindfold and kind of like restrained me against the cross.

And he started like using different implements to like hit me in front of like probably like 150 people. people. So he was hitting me and using like paddles and like whips and different things like that. And then he tells the girl that we came with to start using like her nail extensions or I don't know what they're called. Acrylic nails. Acrylic nails. Yeah. To like scratch down my back but like in a very aggressive way. So she did that and my back was like bleeding. It was all blood.

And he was using a whip that had like metal tips to it. So my ass was like completely bloody as well. And I just remember that the scene kind of ended and everybody was clapping around me. But I just felt like completely numb basically. and then like one of the workers brought over like a towel to like clean myself up and a water bottle or something like that. And then he started doing the same thing to her next. So yeah, that was the first event that he took me to. And after that he took me to like three more, which escalated like after that.

I'm just like in general like it's just wild because it's like you had I feel like you had the first experience with the one guy from O'Magel and now like this is a completely different person and honestly like a completely different experience but I feel like the trauma level is like they're both really really up there but just in completely two completely different ways. Yeah I just feel like I was like preconditioned right to like go into that because of the first guy. Right. Yeah. So the second event I went to after that is kind of a similar situation. There was a lot of people there. A lot of them are older. It was like people in their 50s.

There was a lot of couples, a lot of people who were like swingers, basically. And at that event, I got like suspended from the ceiling. And he whipped me again. But at that event, basically blood was big no-no. You weren't allowed to break any skin because it was against, like, the violations of that place. So he kind of got reprimanded at that place. But it didn't stop him too much. It just made him, like, look for different events that were more accepting of, like, bodily fluids and, like, more risky places, basically.

And more, like, intense forms of abuse, too. Exactly, yeah. Like less limitations, I feel like. Like it goes from like I feel like a light, more of like a light fetish to like harm. Yeah, exactly. Because for a lot of the things that he was doing to me, like I would have bruises and cuts and stuff like that for like two weeks after. So I'd be sitting in class sometimes just in complete pain. And for him it was just like 30 minutes.

of hitting me. Like he doesn't have to go through the after effects of feeling that. Yeah. But yeah, so for the third event, it was a similar situation, but he escalated it to basically put these metal clothespins like all over my body. Like pinching your skin? Yeah, exactly. Like dozens and dozens of them.

and this was already after like hitting me for maybe an hour. So my pain tolerance is already like dwindling. And then he did this on top of it and I actually passed out. So there was like three dozen people around me and I just completely fall to the floor, blackout. and when I wake up, there's like three very concerned older men around me who were like the monitors of that event and they were really mad at the man that I came with because it was never supposed to get to the point of like me passing out.

That's when the man that I came with kind of got like he was pushed to the edges of that community basically because people, didn't like that he had gotten to that point and hadn't like exhibited the proper safety precautions. But the final event I went to him to, he actually had hosted it and like people were paying like significant amounts of money to come to these events specifically because they knew that like I was going to be there and the girls that I was with were going to be there. And they wanted like an opportunity to see us either getting like hurt or um in this next scenario like performing sex so that they were paying more probably because they knew they were going to see what these other places

wouldn't allow kind of thing exactly yeah so this specifically this specific facility he rented out had like no rules against having sex like without um safety. measures. They didn't have any rules against blood getting everywhere. Like, they just had no safety precautions. And that night, he had also gotten me several drinks and stuff like that. And he told me that I was going to have to do a sex scene with the girl that I came with, like, in the middle of the room. So he put blindfolds on both of us and then, like, basically, like, pushing. us together and directed us during the act to like perform oral sex on each other and stuff like that.

And I feel like during that experience, it was kind of similar to the other things that I went through where I just kind of felt numb and detached and really dissociated. But I feel like that pushed me past the brink in terms of. of keeping that relationship with that man. So after that night, I pretty much cut off ties with him. I think at that point, like, my therapist was also starting to affect me because he was trying to reverse a lot of the conditioning that the original man had kind of internalized in me.

So up until that point, I did believe that, like, women were less than men. I did believe that my only worth came as somebody who could provide sex or sexual services to somebody else. But when I began seeing a different side of that, that's when I started to kind of argue with the men that I was with a little bit more and kind of pushed back and stuff like that. So a lot of the clients I was seeing at that point started getting upset with me and there were just numerous occasions where a client that would normally be really nice and like happy to be with me would get like physical with me or like use drugs to drug me and then rape me because I wasn't okay with what they were doing. So after I cut ties with him, I pretty much completely got off the BDSM website and I stopped everything with that pretty quickly. But I was still on like the escorting website and because I stopped the BDSM website, that kind of accelerated. So one of what I would consider like the rock bottom of that was a day when I saw three different. men in the same day and it was just like back to back to back and the physical like toll that took

on me was something that really stuck with me for like weeks after because you were physical with all three of them or sexual and it wasn't even that I was sexual with all three of them like in that way but it was also like each a traumatic experience so I hadn't really experienced. I hadn't really experienced the physical toll of being more like aggressively raped I guess so because of that day where I had met with those three men that was a complete turning point for me and that was what I would consider my rock bottom so from that day forth I had canceled all the websites um I had I went through a period when I blocked all the unknown messages from my phone and even deleted all the male people off my phone because I just didn't want to talk to anybody.

That was a man. And so after that, I started doing therapy more frequently and we started doing like deep trauma work and I realized that I had pretty complex PTSD and I also had like a dissociative disorder where like my coping mechanism for when I encountered anything really difficult was to just completely emotionally detach from that moment. So yeah, after getting those diagnoses, I think that really set the pace for the treatment in my therapy. and it started to be really helpful.

And so ever since then, which was like 2020, 2019, I've still been seeing the same therapist, and things have been progressing really well, and I've moved on from like my bachelor's, and now I'm in a master's program. Congratulations. Yeah, so now I'm pursuing. becoming a therapist, hopefully.

So through the work with the therapist, did he or yourself, did you feel like you wanted to kind of open up and tell your parents everything that had happened? Yeah, that's actually something that just happened like two weeks ago. Really? Yeah. Like you just told them kind of all of it? Yeah, because there's some like police and like legal stuff happening right now because I started to pursue that.

Once I really felt like I had kind of dealt with everything emotionally. I felt like I could go to the police and report it. So that's all happening right now. And I'm kind of in the middle of that right now. Yeah. I mean, I think that's amazing. And I feel like the fact that you went through all this. And I feel like the fact that you, it's interesting because therapy is such a long process.

And it is something that I feel like, it's great. I feel like too that you found somebody that really like stuck with you and worked and worked with you. and helped you through all of this. And obviously it's, like you said, it's not a short process. And it's something that I feel like in general, like you have to continue to work on and work through within yourself.

But I think that it's really amazing that I feel like through what you or what you went through can kind of inspire you to want to help others because, one, you have the personal experience, you know? And two, I feel like firsthand you see how much work it takes, you know, within yourself and just even finding somebody, that really cares and listens because I feel like that's hard to find in a therapist. Like somebody that makes you feel hurt and really is patient with you through your whole process.

So yeah, I think that that's incredible. Yeah, and there's something I actually want to say about that. Go ahead. Go ahead. So the reason I wanted to come on here is because I feel like there's a lot of misconceptions about how people respond to like a traumatic event or even just like a significant grief event that somebody goes through. And a lot of people who do go through like childhood abuse or childhood trauma usually will react by like partaking in like hypersexuality maybe and like going into sex work just because it is like trauma repetition and trauma reenactment is like very, very common among those people.

Yet there's still such a stigma against people who do that. So I think I just want there to be a lot more understanding around why people might react the way they do to their life circumstances. Yeah. And I think people shouldn't ask like why somebody's doing it, but just like come from a place of understanding. Absolutely. Yeah.

And like I said too, like I feel like your story on its own will be able to relate to and help a lot of people, not only that you will personally help down the road. on this career path, but also the people that listen, obviously. Because not everybody's story is going to be the same. But in general, I feel like if someone was in a position where they felt like their actions were being controlled or they sought out that attention, like I feel like, I feel like that's so much more common. Like obviously your story and situation is very, very intense and heavy.

But like there's so many people, like even my. self-included, that it's like you seek that like attention and that validation. Like whether it's from like men or even like more of like a motherly figure because it could go either way, so many different ways. And I think that's something that not enough people kind of realize of like why in your situation you might have pursued that. You know, somebody might look at that and be like, well, she knew what she was getting into or the way that she, the way that he spoke to her, like she should have seen the red flags. But like when you're in those moments and you feel these like these lacks of attention and even like like you want this void to be felt like

you know filled within yourself that's not what you're thinking about you know what i mean you're you're only taking the good out of the bad like there could be a a whole bad you know thing that you might see and realize but when you're filling something within yourself that's just so like you know it's just missing i feel like you just don't look at those things so i feel like like what i was just saying was just that i feel like people should also kind of see that route and that's why i feel like people can relate to your story, even if it isn't the exact same experience in so many different ways. And like I said, I feel like you're going to help so many people too and be able to really connect

and relate and make people feel heard because that is so important, especially in a therapy career and everything along those lines. So you're going to do incredible things for sure. Oh, that's kind of. Of course. No, I'm serious. I really do mean it. And I think that you're so strong for being able to come on here and tell your story.

and that says so much about you and your strength as a person and I'm so proud of you. Did amazing. And I really hope that you, I hope that you enjoyed it and it was like, it was good for you. Like a way like, kind of like therapeutic for you to be able to like talk about it and just know that you're going to, a lot of people will listen and feel heard as well and you'll help a lot of people. Yeah, absolutely. Good.

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