We're All Insane - I Dated My Predator

Episode Date: August 2, 2026

At 15 years old, Jess entered a residential treatment center while struggling with trauma and her mental health. There, she met a counselor she was meant to trust who slowly groomed and sexually abused her, exploiting her vulnerability and changing the course of her life. In this episode, Jess shares how childhood trauma, abuse, addiction, and years of silence shaped her life and how she eventually found healing. She hopes her story helps other survivors feel seen, exposes the reality of abuse of power, and reminds people that healing is possible. Check Out Jess:  → Tik Tok | @graylightaura Topics Discussed: → Childhood Trauma & Mental Health → Grooming by a Treatment Center Counselor → Surviving Sexual Abuse → Addiction & Recovery → Healing After Trauma Sponsored By: → HERS | Ready to reach your goals? Visit https://forhers.com/insane to get personalized, affordable care that gets you. On This Episode We Cover:  → 00:00:00 - Introduction  → 00:00:42 - What was Jess's childhood like? → 00:02:40 - How did losing her aunt change her life? → 00:05:10 - How did her father's alcoholism affect her? → 00:09:14 - What led to her first mental health crisis? → 00:10:10 - What happened during her first suicide attempt? → 00:11:02 - What was it like being in psychiatric hospitals? → 00:19:36 - Why was she sent to a residential treatment center? → 00:21:56 - How did she meet the counselor who groomed her? → 00:24:42 - How did they stay in contact after treatment? → 00:26:48 - How did the grooming begin? → 00:27:38 - What happened on their first "date"? → 00:29:40 - When did the abuse become sexual? → 00:31:18 - How did the abuse continue? → 00:32:34 - How was she isolated and manipulated? → 00:37:18 - How did the relationship affect her family? → 00:39:34 - How did the trauma begin to consume her life? → 00:49:40 - Why couldn't she leave the relationship? → 00:59:48 - How did she try to start over? → 01:05:16 - How did becoming a mother change her life? → 01:08:56 - What made her finally report her abuser? → 01:13:44 - What happened when she confronted her former counselor? → 01:18:02 - Why was the investigation closed? → 01:22:32 - What was it like seeing her abuser in court? → 01:28:10 - What needs to change to better protect vulnerable kids? → 01:35:00 - What are the warning signs of grooming? → 01:39:12 - What does Jess want parents and survivors to know? Show links: → R*ped in Police Custody More We Are All Insane:  → OFFICIAL MERCH NOW AVAILABLE - code INSANE10 gets you 10% off for a limited time → Join We’re All Insane Mailing List for EXCLUSIVE Content + Discounts  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hi, my name is Jess. I'm going to start from my childhood and go from there. My parents dated for a little bit, but they never were really actually together. They broke up when I was a baby, and I started switching houses around that time. The custody agreement was I was at my mom's during the week, and then every Thursday, I would go to my dad's, and then every other weekend, I would stay Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, the whole weekend. And then my dad had to do all the driving. So that was in the court agreement. But unfortunately, my parents didn't communicate with each other. They only communicated through me, and it was really negative. So that made me feel like a burden from a really young age. And my dad, he would talk negatively about my mom around me, and that really sucked as well. And constantly guilt-tripping about the driving. Tell your mom, she needs to help out with the driving.

Well, tell your dad, it's in the court agreement, and that's what he needs to do. If he has a problem with it, he needs to go to court. And just like little things, like being seven years old and forgetting my backpack at home when he's taking me to school, that's 25 minutes away. And then, like, getting guilt-tripped for that because it's a long drive and just like always just really feeling like a burden from a young age. My dad got remarried to a woman named Stephanie. And she was just in close an age to me as she was my dad. Very, like, blonde, fake boobs, all that. All that.

Yeah, she, well, she. We know that kind. Yeah. I didn't like her when I heard her call my mom white trash. That's when it started. And I was so young, I remember telling her like I needed to talk to her about something. And then she like pulled me in my room. And then I was like, never mind. And I like hit under the bed until she like got it out of me. And I was like, I don't like it when you talk about my mom. But they just never got along either. My mom got remarried to my stepdad. They're still together to this day. He's an awesome man.

And then they had my little sister together. I also have an older sister on my mom's side. who my mom had with another man when she was in high school. So I have an older sister on my mom's side, and then my mom and stepdad had my little sister, Sadie. And then my dad also had two little boys, Nick and Jack, and so I have two brothers on my dad's side. So I really wish I had like a sibling that switched houses with me. I feel like it would have made it a lot less awkward,

but I just never felt fully part of a family. I just felt like I was stepping in to another family each time, and that was really tough. I spent a lot of time at my grandparents growing up as well. So I kind of was just like thrown around. I was at my mom's house, my dad's house, my grandparents' house. And then every summer I would go to Washington State for three to six weeks out of time to stay with my grandparents there. The first thing that happened in my life that I think affected me more than I realized until recently was my mom's sister killed herself.

She shot herself in the head when I was seven. The police came to our house to tell us because my mom didn't want to give them my kids. grandparents' address over the phone, not knowing if they were actually cops. And I remember them coming over. I was only seven, and my mom asked them if I was allowed to stay downstairs. And they said no. And so I went upstairs and then me and my older sister could hear my mom crying. And we called my grandma. We were scared. My grandma knew right then. And then my mom came upstairs and said, Aunt Jenny died. And we said, how? And she's like, she just died. And so then her funeral came around like a week later. And she had two kids, unfortunately.

And I was just confused. And I said to them, like, how did she die? And then very bluntly, my cousin said, she took a gun and shot her head off. And it was just extremely, like, confusing to me at that age. It's traumatic, yeah. Even the news of hearing or being told someone that you know or a family member has died, I think that that's really, I can't explain what it does, but it's something that, because like I even have experience with it.

And it's just kind of like, it's a very weird, like we're not taught how to process that. And I almost feel like if a child loses anyone, like a grandparent or a parent, they probably should be in some form of therapy just to kind of work through it. Because it is this weird kind of tragedy and trauma that sticks with you because you just don't know how or why. And I think that's our first introduction really to death. And it's scary. Yeah, it's funny that you say that because, that was actually when I started getting therapy for the first time.

When I told my mom, Aunt Jenny didn't love us because she left, that's when my mom decided to put me into therapy. I would play the board game trouble I remember with my therapist. I think it's cool how they do that with kids to help them talk. And then I think the next thing was my grandma, my maternal grandmother, I was extremely close with my maternal grandparents. Like I said, I was at their house a lot. They would take me to school every morning. yeah, she passed away, unfortunately, in the hospital. And she was pretty young. I'm pretty sure she was, like, in her late 50s. And I was laying on her. Like, I knew that she was dying and I chose to

stay there with her. But that was just, you know, that was hard too, because I was my, like, you know, my grandma. The next thing would be on my 13th birthday. So basically, my dad and Stephanie, they, they were together, I think, over a decade. But I think around like 12 years, my dad's alcoholism just started getting really bad. And he also takes Xanax at the same time. So he would often be just passed out with his eyes open. I could tell that she tried to work it out with him for a long time. I do have respect for her. I think she's a good mom to my little brothers. And I honestly feel kind of bad for how terrible I was to her at that age. But yeah, he was struggling with alcoholism, and they ended up getting a divorce. And after the divorce, it just like got so much worse. On my 13th birthday,

my dad picked me up from my mom's house and I ended up having to not well not jump but I ended up having to open the door while he was driving and getting out. Luckily we were in like a parking lot like of an outdoor mall so it wasn't too crazy. But on my birthday like had to run into Patsmart and like call my mom crying to come pick me up. It was really weird because it was the first time I ever saw my parents together in person. I was always like you know meet up at a gas station and pass the kid over or like drop them off in front of their house type thing. So that was interesting. And I was really proud of my mom because she was like telling my dad that like she cares about him. So she wants him to get a shit together. This memory is horrible. But it got so bad that my little brother, Nico, woke up one night. And this was when Stephanie and him had already separated. So it was just me there and my two little brothers and my dad. And Nico, he was the older one. He was like maybe like seven or eight. But he woke up really sick. And I could tell. tell that like he was really sick. He was like burning up. I took his temperature. It was like 102. And, you know, my dad's passed out on the couch. And so I like tried to get my dad's attention. Like, dad, he's sick. And Nico said while crying, Daddy, why won't you help me? And he's just like yelling that at him. And it was just like something I'll never forget. So then I call Stephanie and let her know what's happening. And after that, my dad and his family, who are also

alcoholics say that I'm going to get his kids taken away from him. It was extremely frustrating because it's like I'm the person that takes them on drives to get them out of the house and buys them slushies and like tries to get them to like have a good day instead of being around that. And then just to be told that I'm the reason why he can't like, why would you tell that to Stephanie? You know how hard Stephanie is on him. Like blah, blah, blah. All I wanted was to just make sure that they were okay. And I mean, I guess I was supposed to let him. be sick and not have any parental help because then my dad wouldn't look like a bad guy. And it often was like that, just like guilt tripping and things are my fault.

Anytime I would try to talk to my dad about anything, it was always like, why do you want drama? Like, why can't we just be good? I actually just want to connect and like process these things so we can be closer and get through things together. But for some reason, he just like can't do that. So yeah, that was really hard, like seeing my brothers like that. And unfortunately, because of me starting to go through.

through mental health issues. Stephanie decided to not let me see my brothers. I wasn't even allowed at my dad's house anymore. And that I got so angry at her because I just like, like I said, like I felt like I was the one that was taking care of them. In hindsight, I can see why she made that choice at the time, but it just made me so mad. And I said some terrible things to her that I regret. So you ended up just staying living and staying with your mom? No. It was I can only go to my dads when Nico and Jack were at their mom's house. Okay. Yeah. And like even there was the time I was living with my dad. So I would have to go like stay at a friend's house while they came over. It made me so angry. Then when I was 15, no, I was a 13. I was in middle school like going into eighth grade. And I got my first like real boyfriend. Like before that, you know, it's just like kissing. But this was like, I mean, not like real, but like I had we, we were intimate. It was like my first intimate relationship. And I don't know what it was. But the. breakup for some reason, like I felt like I was going to die. Like I started self-harming. I started

cutting myself, which I did for like over 10 years. And I got like suicidal. It was so hard that my mom moved me like across the state to get away from him because, you know, I was like smoking cigarettes with him and having sex. And my mom like didn't want to put me on birth control because she felt like it was giving me like a pass to have sex. She didn't want me to be having sex. So yeah, that breakup was extremely hard. And then I realized, like, maybe not at the time, but I had, like, abandonment issues that were, like, extreme. So I moved to Anthem, Arizona. It's, like, really far north compared to, like, Phoenix.

And so I had to start freshman year not knowing anybody, which really sucked. When we moved into that house within the first week before I even started freshman year, I tried to kill myself for the first time. I took, like, maybe, like, 20 or 30 extra strength time. And I remember I was laying in my room watching teen mom. And what's funny is the hospital found out what time I took the pills because of I said, oh, this episode was on. And then I just laid there and waited and waited. And then after like an hour, I just got scared. And I was grounded. So I didn't have a cell phone. And we just moved into the house. So there wasn't a home phone.

It was like home phone time of life. And so I was like, shit, like I don't want to die right now. And I'm scared and I don't know what to do. So I walked over to the neighbor's house and knocked on the door and like told them. And luckily the guy was so nice. He like came into my house, called 911 and his wife was there too. And they were just like sitting with me in the hallway while I was just sitting there like really numb. But they were actually like really sweet and supportive of me like after that going forward forward, which was really sweet. So that was my first mental health stay. I ended up staying in over 13 mental institutions from the age of like 14, I would say, all the way until like 22.

As a kid, it was really easy to be put in there because, like, if you self-harm, your parents can put you in there easily. If they take you to the hospital and you hurt yourself, they're going to 51-50 you. And so it was just like, it wasn't helping. Like, any time that I got put in these places, like, they put you in this little, like, closet office room with, like, a psychiatrist. They talk to you for five minutes, and then they diagnose you with bipolar. And I feel like nine times out of ten,

females get diagnosed with bipolar so quick and men get diagnosed with ADHD. And I come to find out I had undiagnosed ADHD and just fucking trauma like that I needed, I needed support and help. I was being neglected. It wasn't like I was just like bipolar. That wasn't all of it. But yeah, mental hospitals were really hard. It, it was just difficult just being thrown in there so much. But, you know, I get where my mom was coming from because she was terrified. after the pill suicide attempt, it was really strange. I was pretending to sleep in the hospital bed, like when I was in the emergency room.

And my mom and dad were there, which is always really weird. And I was pretending to sleep. And for some reason, my dad was like whispering something to my mom, like across the bed. And he said, abortion, right? Like the abortion. Like that happened, right? Like the abortion. And she, I can't, like, she was like, yeah.

And I was like confused. So I ended up like talking about it with my mom later and she told me that right before she got pregnant with me, she had an abortion. And I'm pro choice. Like I, that was her choice. She probably couldn't have supported a baby at that time, whatever. She ended up having me. So she made it work. But at that time, it made me feel like I wasn't supposed to be here. Like somebody else was supposed to be here. And that was a really crappy feeling. And I brought that up to my mom recently and she forgot about it. But she was like, I don't know why he brought that up because he's fucking weird. I have no idea. I don't know if it was because I was like struggling so much. Like I have no idea.

Yeah, it seems random. Yeah, extremely. So around this time, I started lying for attention. As a mom, I recently read that like if kids lie for attention often, especially about really big things, it's a huge sign of abuse. And like I remember with my first breakup, like I told him I was like sick, but like didn't tell him what it was. And like I just like would often do stuff like that. And I think it was because like psychologically, I just wanted my dad to give a fuck about me. And no matter what I did, like he wouldn't. So there was like one day in school. I hated school so much. Like sitting with undiagnosed ADHD so bad in like a quiet classroom was so hard. And so I went to the bathroom and I just randomly got this dumb impulsive thought. And I texted my mom and I was like, some guy just came in the bathroom and

like try to touch me. And I just expected her to come pick me up. And she called 911 and the entire school got locked down. To this day, like people talk about the lockdown, but they don't know. Like it was me. They remember the lockdown where they were looking for someone with purple vans because I just, they asked me what he was wearing. I just made some shit up. I had to go down town and talk to a detective. He knew right away. I was lying. And he talked to me for a bit. And then he pulled my mom into the room and he told her like, I think she's lying and my mom started crying and she told him about my dad situation and whatnot. And my mom wasn't mad at me. She Moore was so sad that like she felt like I needed to do that. Unfortunately, very shortly after this, I'd say probably

six months later. I had a crush on this kid in my art class. His name was Zach. And he invited me to go out with, like, hang out with him and his friend Cody. And I knew Cody too, so I was like, sure. So they lived like a good drive away, like maybe 10 miles. But there's like a gate in between their town and Anthem where I was living. And there's like a shortcut if you cut through the gate. But they picked me up. When they dropped me back off, they dropped me off at the gate. And I had to walk home in the middle of the night. But while I was there, I smoked weed for the first time. and I'm a stoner now, but like I totally believed in like greening out. Like I greened out. I took like three bong rips for the first time I've ever smoking. And I remember Cody didn't smoke.

Cody was like, I don't like weed. It makes me anxious. And I remember saying like and feeling like I was going into different dimensions. And like I said that out loud. And Cody said, this is why I don't smoke. Like, and he was just kind of like making fun of me, which made me more anxious. But it also shows that he knew I was messed up. After that, we go into Zach's bedroom, and I'm just, like, laying there, and I'm so anxious, and I just feel frozen. And then all of a sudden, like, Zach grabs my hand and puts it on his dick. And I just lay there, and I just let him do it. And I don't know why I didn't say no or yell or scream or try to leave. But I just felt like so frozen in time, especially like being so high.

I mean, I smoke all the time and I don't think it wasn't weed, but like it, like, you know, when you take, I don't know if you know, but like if you take like a lot of edibles, like you can seriously like hallucinate. But it was terrifying. So he ends up like having sex with me right next to Cody and then Cody starts doing it too. He even, Zach even put himself in my, in my ass. And I had never done anything like that.

I had barely even had sex. I only had sex with my first boyfriend. And he said out loud what he was doing to Cody. And Cody said, I want to too. And I just laid there. And then after they high fived and they told me to go pee so I didn't get pregnant because that's how young we were and stupid. And then after that, they just told me to get in their truck and they drove me to the

gate and made me walk home. And it was horrible. I didn't realize what happened. And I didn't want to tell anyone because I thought it was my fault. I smoked weed. I shouldn't have. I wasn't allowed to do that. I snuck out. Like there was so many things, I felt like it was my fault. And I didn't realize that like technically that kind of was sexual abuse, not even kind of.

But that was really difficult to go through alone. So shortly after that, this was my most serious suicide attempt. It was not a cry for help. I went in my bathroom and I thought about this for a really a long time and I turned like plugged in my blow dryer and I put it in the bathtub with me and it was extremely strange because I thought as soon as it hit the water like I would get electrocuted and die but that's not what happened it was like under the water and like literally blowing water through it like a blow dryer would be underwater and then I put it up to my chest and I was like confused like why the fuck isn't this working and then I pulled it out of the water and that's when it electrocuted me and I just was like this luckily the emergency switch turned it off uh

And I was just, I was more numb in that moment than I've ever been in my entire life. Like, I was so numb. And probably like a few days later, I actually had a doctor's appointment. And because of my history, I had to take like, like, little, like, quizzes, basically that, like, rate my mental health for the doctor. And she went over it with my mom. And, like, they asked me a question. And for some reason, I just broke down and, like, I told them what I did. And then, again, another mental hospital.

And, I mean, I was in so many, like, I can't even, like, remember, like, specific times because they all just morph together. So my mom ended up, I had, I had a winter trip to Washington planned because I would go there every summer, but I had a winter one. And I always wanted to go there in the winter. And like we were planning on like going to Mountain Rainier and like playing in the snow and like all of that. I was so excited. And I was like, this is just what I need like because I'm so depressed. And then all of a sudden one day, it's like near, it's like two weeks before Christmas and I'm going there over Christmas. And my mom takes me to Scott's Selle Fashion Square. It's like one of the nicest mall.

and she's buying me a lot of stuff, like a lot. I'm like, okay, like, this is cool. She spends, like, $200 on me. It's like a holiday. And then we go to Cheesecake Factory, and she wanted me to sit on the inside of the booth. Like, she's on this side where you escape. And she's like, I'm on this side.

I'm like, okay, like, whatever. And we meet up with my Aunt Joy, which also is weird. I was like, that's random. Okay. So then during dinner, my mom just, like, whips out this brochure. And she's like, Jess, you're going to this residential treatment center.

Like this one's long term. It's going to really help you. And I was like, no, I don't want to go there. And then she's like, you're going. And I'm like, okay, like after my Washington trip. And she's like, no, like you're going tomorrow. Like, and you're not going to Washington anymore. And I was so upset.

And then I realized why she like blocked me in there. And I realized why she spent all that money. It was because I wasn't going to be home for Christmas. And so I had to be there over the Christmas, which really sucked. If you have tried everything to lose weight and you're still just feeling stuck, I am here to tell you that this summer is about to be different. Weight loss by hers is designed to help support you in reaching your goals with an access of affordable range FDA approved GLP-1 medications such as the Wagovi pill and the Wagovi Pen.

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which isn't like a normal thing for me. It was really weird. I don't remember like going into the group home, but I have some memories about being there. The first time I heard about my abuser. I was, I had seen her in passing. I was in this place basically, it was called the new foundation. It got shut down after they tried to change the name and still were failing. It was in Scottsdale. And, And basically this place has like a little dorm for residential treatment. They have a dorm for drug treatment. They have a dorm for diversion treatment. And then a foster like dorm as well.

They morph all these kids together. And the brochure that they gave my mom, they don't tell you that they have all those programs. They only say it's residential. They don't tell you that they're putting your kids with diversion kids because they just want to get as much money as possible. So, yeah. So I'm like I'm there.

and I'm at lunch one day, and I hear these girls talking about one of the employees, and they're like, she's so hot, blah, blah, blah. Didn't you hear like she was on TV? And I'm like, what? And I'm also, like, out at that time as, like, bisexual or pansexual, whatever. I just, like, date people for their hearts, not their parts. So, you know, I was, like, intrigued. I was like, who are you guys talking about?

And they're like, oh, Rennie, she was on a shot at love with Kila Tequila, too. And I was like, oh, I watched that show. I remember. Like, I watched all those, like, weird shows, Rock of Love, Flav A Flav, all of them, like, way too young. Yeah, but, like, I totally watched it. So I was like, no way, that's crazy. She actually got eliminated the first episode. She really, really connected with Tila.

Tila really liked her. And then Rennie got too drunk, and she ended up kissing this girl named Lily on the show. And then during the elimination, it's kind of iconic. Tila said, give me my key and get the fuck out of my house. She said that to both of them. But yeah, so that's what they were talking about. And I guess Reni would tell kids this in like the dorms, which as an adult now, I'm like, why are you telling 15-year-olds? I mean, it was only minors there. Why are you telling them about you being on a TV show in general, especially that show? I don't know. And maybe they did recognize

her, like she said, but like still, like she talked about it. It sounds like it sounds like sound cool. Yeah, exactly. And I noticed there was. There was. one or two times that Reni was in our dorm, but I did not talk to her. Like, we didn't talk a lot. Like, we barely talked in this group home. But I do remember her talking about how she was going to propose to her girlfriend and, like, how she was going to do it and whatnot. So anyway, I, when you're in these places as a kid, it's cringe, but like it's kind of your whole life. So, like, you'll, you'll, like, kind of mess around with, like, other kids or, like, you'll have crushes or whatever. Now, like, looking at it, I'm like, oh, my God, bro, you're there for

treatment. Like, why are you trying to find the love of your life in there? But there was this girl named Jocelyn. She was my first ever girlfriend, and that's where we met. It was around the time that silly bands were a thing, and that's kind of how she, like, I could tell she liked me. And she, like, we, like, gave each other silly bands and stuff. I guess her and Rennie, since Jocelyn was in the detox house and the residential treatment house, I was able to connect with her. And so was Rennie, because that's the house that she was in the most, the dorm. And so when I got out, me and Jocelyn dated for like six months. She was the first woman I was ever intimate with. And yeah, we had like a really great relationship. I noticed that she was friends with Rennie on

Facebook. And I was like, oh, like I remember her. Like she was so cool. And so I sent her a friend request. And so yeah, she was already friends with Jocelyn on there, who was also 15. I was 15. So when me and Jocelyn got into a fight, of course, I posted about it on Facebook, and Rennie commented on it. And she said, and I quote, what's going on with my kids? So I sent her a message and I kind of just gave her the rundown of whatever it was that we were, I don't even remember what it was. Obviously it didn't matter that much. And that's when she gave me her number and we started texting. And right away, she like asked me, maybe not right away, but like within that same day, she asked me how old I was.

And I was really confused because I was like, you know how old I am. I was just in the group home. And basically, yeah, I mean, I told her I was 15 and she said, hurry up and have some birthdays. And to me, I thought now looking at it as an adult, that's really creepy. That's like, I want to date you. I wish you were of age. But I thought at that time, like, okay, she wouldn't be interested in me because I'm so young. But we, like, continued talking and texting a lot. Quick question.

Yeah. So how long were you in the group at that time? 30 days. 30 days. And you didn't really talk to her there. Mm-mm. And then how old was she? 28. Okay. Yep. She was 28 and I was 15.

At some parts of the year, she'd be 13 years older than me and then other parts 12. So we start texting and it's not like super flirtatious. I couldn't tell like what it was. But then she asked me to hang out and I was like, yes. At the time, like, you know, I don't, I wasn't like happy at all. And I was like, I would love to get out of my dad's house right now. Like, sure. So she said, like, you know, it's a far drive. Like, do you want to sleep over? It's an hour drive to come get me and an hour drive back to her house. So I said, sure. So she drove two hours to come get me, technically, and two hours to bring me home. She drove four hours round trip to meet up with a girl. She's never even really talked too much or whatever, a kid. So she came to pick me up. We made plans after, like, probably texting about a week. Still, I didn't know if this was a date. Like, it was really confused.

because of like the whole dynamic. So she picks me up. We drive an hour to Mesa. She takes me to tilted kilt. It's like hooters kind of. They just were like kilt. It's like Scottish, I think. But she took me there and I remember I was so little.

But I remember she was like drinking. She had like she was like finishing her second beer. And she was like, yeah, like I used to work here. Like I actually fingered a girl in the bathroom. It was so random. And like looking back, like even if you were on a date with somebody your age. Like, that's weird to say. Also, it's weird to say to a 15-year-old. It was a weird comment. But I think she was saying it to sound so cool to me. Like, oh, yeah, like, I did that.

I think that, but also to make it, like, I think that's a way of, like, grooming, like, to introduce, like, a normalcy in it. Like, you know, like nonchalant. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. I didn't really think of it that way. So, yeah, I remember she was eating sweet potato fries for some reason, just, like, details I remember, because it was so long ago. And, yeah, so that, That was that at Tilta Kilt. And then after that, we went to Tempe Marketplace. There used to be a Bev Mo in Tempe Marketplace, which is like a big liquor store. And she ran in there to get a couple of mini vodkas. And then we went and got a smoothie right next to the movie theater. And she put them in the smoothie. I knew about it, though. I mean, not that it makes it any better. We saw the movie Water for Elephants. And during the movie, she grabbed my hand. And that's when I knew it was a date. And I kind of like had a mini panic attack inside because I liked her. And because I was just like, I felt a lot of pressure being young. I was like, I hope I'm enough almost. So after the movie, we get back in her car and head to her apartment, but she wanted to

stop for snacks. And so she asked me like what kind of snacks I like. I was like, I love pickles. Like, it's funny because after my pregnancy, I stopped liking them. So weird, but they were always my favorite food. So we got like the bagged ones, but she told me to stay in the car because she wanted to get more alcohol. So I stayed in the car and she got a big box of pink wine, like the cheap, crappy kind.

And we got back to her apartment. There wasn't any furniture in there except her bed because she was in the process of moving out. But she turned on Lars and the Real Girl in her bedroom with Ryan Gosling. And we watched that movie. And I don't, I think it just started with her kissing me. I don't know. And then she went down on me. And I was so young that I didn't, I had, I had had sex before.

and I had even orgasm before during sex, but I didn't know what it was. I just knew it felt good. And she said, she came up and she said, you take a long time to come, babe. And I was so young, I didn't even know what that meant. And so I was a little, like, insecure about that. So I just, like, pulled her up to kiss her and then we fell asleep. The next morning, I was so hungover. I was so thirsty when I woke up.

And she was still sleeping. And I wasn't confident enough at that age to, like, wake her up and ask her for water or to even go in the kitchen and get water myself. So I grabbed my pink wine next to the bed and I chugged it, not even realized. Yeah. Oh, God. I was so young. I didn't realize that that would just drop.

Yeah. It won't make me feel better. But yeah, it's just in hindsight, I'm like, wow, looking back, I was that young. I didn't even know what an orgasm was. I didn't even know that you shouldn't drink alcohol to hydrate. Like, so she takes me home and then we just like keep talking. And at this point, you were no longer talking to Jocelyn. Jocelyn was pissed because she had a crush on Rennie the whole time we were at the group home and even after the fact, which is probably why she added Rennie.

I'm guessing that she probably found her on Facebook, but I don't know. I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if Rennie added her, you know. So shortly after this, like we're just texting. She sends me a picture of her in like basically in the, like, basically in the. dorms, there's this little, like, enclosed office with windows so you could see through it. But she sent me a picture of her hand in her pants, sitting in the chair in there. And, like, looking back now, I'm like, wow. So she did that at work.

We're around children and sent it to a child that also was in there. That's wild. Shortly after this, like, maybe the next hangout or the one after that, she took me to a bar, and she knew the bartender. I think her name was Amy or something. But she knew the bartender. And so the bartender didn't idea us. And I remember she bought, like, it was weird because, like, it wasn't a shot,

but I guess you were supposed to chug it because she, like, kind of teased me that I was just sipping on it. And so we chug it. And then all of a sudden, I'm so drunk that I'm laying on the bar. And her friend, like, Amy comes up and she's like, hey, like, I really, like, don't want to get in trouble for, like, serving underage. So, like, you guys, like, got to get out. And Ronnie was like, oh, no, like, she's of age. But like, yeah, I'm going to take her home. Like, she needs to get home.

I kind of remember, and I only know that because Reni told me after the fact. But I remember her, like, reclining the chair. And then for some reason, we slept at a guy's house that we were hanging out with, like, one of her friends. I wake up on his couch with a pot in my lap and human centipede is on the TV, like the movie. Rennie was into really fucked up movies. Like, she showed me a lot of really fucked up movies. And that actually gets me into the grooming that.

I saw that was so obvious now and looking back. This part gets me really bad. But my dad would let her in her house and like let her sleep over and stuff. And like he did ask me about her age and he did think it was weird. But like he just let me do what I wanted. But there's this pedophile who's a woman named Mary Kay Leterno from the 90s. And I'm pretty sure in second and sixth grade, because she like moved grades, she taught a little boy. And she ended up. being with him at 14 years old, I believe 14 or 15, and she got pregnant with two of his babies. The parents had a restraining order on her. They still found her having sex with this kid in her car. She could not stay away from him. They ended up together. He ended up, like when he got older,

he ended up having mental health problems and alcohol problems and horrible issues throughout his entire life. Until her last breath, she won't admit she's a predator. Like she, I guess, guess the statistic for female predators admitting that their predators is extremely low. I'm not sure why. But yeah, to that last breath, she still really thinks that she's not a pedophile, even though she was guilty in it in court and literally had his children. So Rennie showed me the movie that they remade in my dad's living room. And basically, it was like, this is just like us. Like they ended up together because they're so in love and like what they have is real. And like, that's what we are.

She also showed me the movies Bloomington, which is another lesbian movie within a teacher and a student. And loving Annabelle, that was another one, as well as she made this song. She would sing the song, You'll Be in My Heart by Tarzan to me. And if you listen to lyrics, it's kind of creepy because he says, like, stop your crying, you'll be all right. And then also our bond is different. They don't like understand what we're not that different at all. Like, just like really creepy lyrics for our dynamic, like looking back. Also, the song Wonderwall I Can't Listen to or The Good Life, oh, this is gonna be.

Yeah, I can't listen to that. Those songs, like, we're our songs. So, yeah, she really was grooming me, like, really hard with those movies. She also showed me the movie Lost and Delirious, which is a movie about a lesbian couple where at the end, one of the girls kills herself because, like, she gets broken up with, just like in really messed up movies. So yeah, all that was going on. And then it started really affecting me in school.

I didn't want to be at school. I wanted to be with my girlfriend who lived across the state, like an hour away. I guess not across the state, but pretty far away. Like, I didn't want to be there. And I remember, like, one night, she texted me in the middle of the night and she said, I just got raped. And of course, like, I wake up a few hours later and I see it. And I'm frantic.

and I have to go to school. And the whole time I don't want to go to school. Like, I'm worried about her, but she's not responding because she was so drunk that she, like, was sleeping. And so, like, the next day, she told me she got, like, super, super drunk and her friend did that to her. And I was so young that I said, like, well, why did you get so drunk? And, like, of course, I would never say that to someone now that got essayed.

But I was just, like, so frustrated. And it's, like, I couldn't focus on school because I'm having this, like, adult telling me she got raped and, like, all this stuff is going on. I remember texting her riding the yellow school bus to school, which is just wild to me. So yeah, I just, I didn't want to be in school anymore. So at this point, I am just like so under her spell. And you have to think about it too. I never felt like involved in a family either or like truly like my mom loved me,

but at the time I didn't feel like I was loved by any parent. So having this adult take care of me and give me this extra care, buy me food, pick me up, take me places, give me that stability that I wanted and be my first real relationship, first person I ever, like, really loved and, like, spent a lot of time with. It was really intense. So this is the worst thing I've ever done in my life. And I hope the audience gives me some, like, slack because I don't think people would have a lot of courage talking about the worst thing they ever did on their life on such a public platform, but I want to talk about it. My mom was, like, driving me somewhere. And I think she was starting to catch on because, like, I wanted to spend a lot of

time with Rennie. And I was like, I think I was like asking her if I can go to her house or something and she said no. And like, I don't know. I was just being not very nice to her. And she was driving. I was in the passenger seat. And she said something negative about her. And I just like lost my mind. And I started hitting my mother while she was driving. And like this woman is my everything now. And like, I can't, I don't think I'll ever fully forgive myself, but I at least put in the work to change over the last 15 years and our relationship is amazing now and she forgives me you know but yeah that was the biggest mistake I ever did in my life but I really think it's important to include in the story because it just shows how much this woman like meant to me and like what I would like I would turn against

everybody for her at that time yeah and it was just that parental like connection that I had with her that I didn't know was even there and it's gross but I didn't know it was happening and the relationship. It was just a lot at one time. So at that point, my mom called 911 and they arrested me. And I remember when they put handcuffs around me, they saw my scars and they said, we got ourselves a crazy one. And that really sucked. Same time, I am at like in the little room, like talking to the cop. And he's like, you're going to regret those in your 20s. And that really pisses me off looking at it now because I'm like, only my 20s, only in my prime years, not when I'm in my 30s. I'll be used up then. only my 20s. Like, I don't know. I just didn't like the way he said that. Like, why don't

you just say you're going to regret those? Like, I don't know. Not even that, but like, let's figure out why she's doing it. Yeah. And not just. You're going to regret those. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree with that. So my stepdad, they let me wait there for a good bit before they came and got me. You know, I was just in a holding cell while I was underage and I deserved it to sit there for a bit. And my stepdad came and picked me up and all my stuff was in the backseat. And he took me to my dad's house. And I totally understand when my mom did that. Like, Yeah. But I do think about sometimes. What do you parents do that don't have that option? You know? And I struggle so much with conflict because anytime anything was hard, I'd just go to the other parents' house. So I like ghost people for a long time. Like I could not handle conflict because I just never had to practice it in my life. If you're a fan of true crime, horror, or creepy encounters, you've got to listen to disturbed true horror stories. Each episode shares the terrifying experience.

experiences of real people, retold by professional actors. I bet down on his hand and he pulled back, but he puts the knife a little harder against my sweatshirt. I began to hear the breathing and growling of what could only come from a monster. Find disturbed true horror stories wherever you enjoy your podcasts. Looking to strengthen your health and well-being, tune in to the Dr. Tina show, one of Apple Podcast's top alternative health shows. I'm Dr. Tina Moore, naturopathic physician and chiropractor, and I cover topics like metabolic. health, chronic diseases, pain management, and more with expert interviews and solo episodes. I keep it no nonsense with a science-backed approach to empower you to improve your health and

resilience. New episodes every Thursday, produced by Drake Peterson and Wellness Loud. So he took me to my dads and I started online school for prima vera. So at this point, I'm not going to school very much. Like, I'm not going to school at all. And I'm barely doing that. I don't have, I didn't have any like, like, I couldn't like, I couldn't like, make myself sit and do it. So eventually I have to go see a judge to figure out what I have to do for hitting my mom. So me and my mom, she picks me up and she takes me and we go and I couldn't believe it and neither could my mom. But they sentenced me to the same group home that I met Reni at into the diversion dorm, which was just wild to me and my mom. Like we almost looked at each other

and laughed. And so I go in there and I know the entire process. Like I know how they're going to check me, like, that I don't have anything on me. I'm not supposed to or whatever. This group home used to be a, like, what are they called? Elderly person home. Yeah. And so, like, it kind of seems like an apartment in a lot of the rooms. Like, there's, like, a door that has, like, a bathroom and another, and, like, in the bathroom, there's a shower, even though it was just, like, the therapist's office. So I have her check me and everything. And I have, I put my phone in, like, my bag or something while she's checking me. And then after she's done checking me, I grab it. And then she's like, ready to take me back to the dorm. And I'm like, oh, my stomach really hurts. I put it in the

shower when she was checking me. That's what it was. I put it in the shower when she was checking my body. And so I was like, oh, my stomach really hurts. Like, do you mind if I use the bathroom before we go back? And she was like, yeah. So then I grabbed it. And I was able to talk to Reni the whole, like for like a week before my phone finally died because I would just turn it on at night. Okay. So the first time you went to the same home, it was a a 30-day stay, then you're out. And then all this stuff happens in between and they send you back there. Was it for another 30 days? And then were you not going to see Reni there that time? Is that why you had a text her? No. So she still working there? Yes. I totally forgot about this. She told me that she

quit. Okay. So she wasn't working there anymore. And that made my mom a lot more comfortable about me going back. Gotcha. Yeah. Did she actually quit? I'll get to that in a little bit. Because as far as you're concerned. You're back there for 30 days. She doesn't work there anymore. So that's why you wanted to text her at least for a week. Right. Okay. Yes. So, and she knew I was sneaking that phone in. And so I sneak the phone in and I'm texting her like each night and my phone dies. And she obviously knew a lot of the employees there. And unfortunately there was this like really crappy school in the like residential group home. And so we had to go to like different classes during the day. And so I go into one and his name is James. He taught, I think, history there.

But James comes up to me and he's like, hey, like, Reni texted me and like she wanted me to tell you that she's really proud of you. Like, how do you know her? And I was like, oh, yeah, like I was in here before. She's like a mentor to me and whatever. That's what we would call her to everybody is my mentor. And what was her position at the- Basically a glorified babysitter. All you have to have is your fingerprint clearance card and they interview you and you just kind of watch the kids and like make sure that like they get to a bed at a certain hour and like you have to take them to the cafeteria and take them to their therapy appointment and like all that stuff. This group home also would have field trips and I just want people to think about this. Like these kids are more mentally ill in the residential home there than a lockdown mental health facility.

And then they take them out and they will let you run away because they can't put their hands on you. So there's that. So she's talking to me through James, and it was just kind of her way of letting me know like she was thinking about me, I think. And it just sucks because I didn't get any help. Like I needed to get help. And I'm still just only thinking about this adult.

So, and still my mom doesn't know about it. So, but she's catching on. At the time, you know, like I said before, when I posted that Facebook status about my ex, still, you know, just posting online about stuff. So before I went into the group home the second time, like I would post things on Tumblr. Tumblr was my thing. I didn't know my mom knew my Tumblr. She found my Tumblr while I was in the group home the second time. And so we have family therapy sessions once a week. So we go into a family therapy session. It's a really small

room connected to a regular size room. It's like little closet. So we're in like the closet room with the therapist talking. And the therapist says to my mom, did you want to address? sit an hour wait till like the end of the session. My mom's like, we'll wait until the end of the session. So the whole session, I'm like, yeah, thinking about that. What is going on? Like, whatever. So they get to it finally. And my mom says, Jess, I know about you and Reni. I contacted the police. I filed a report and you're not to see her again. And I just, again, like the, I can't express enough the pain that I felt like through abandonment. Like, it felt debilitating, like a weight on my chest. So I opened the little closet door to get out of that

little office into like, it was the group room, but into like a regular size room. And I just fall to my knees, like in the corner and I'm just sobbing. And then, of course, I have to go back to the school after that. So I stay in the hallway in the fetal position and literally just like hyperventilate and cry the whole time. And I didn't think she would contact me again after that. I mean, of course you would be terrified, I would think. So I end up getting out of the group home again. And I didn't expect. I almost was doing better because like that situation had me thinking that it was done. It was over with. So I almost was like starting to think of like, okay, like, what am I doing now? Like, okay, we're going back to school, whatever. But then I get a text and it's from her. And I'm

shocked. Like I did not think like that's bold. Right. I was shocked. Looking back, I think she did it to coach me because the next time we hung out, she coached me on what to say to the detective. And it wasn't, she said, you don't want to be obvious with your lying. So if they ask you if, like, we've kissed before, tell them that, like, I've kissed your forehead, like, when you tried to kiss me. And I'm like, okay, cool. I love you. I'll do anything for you.

Like, this is all going to be okay. Tell your mom basically the same things that she was coaching you to say. I told my mom, I didn't say anything. I didn't tell my mom like it was true, but the way I reacted, like, and everything, it was kind of, like, validated. Did she ever try to ask you more details or no? It just kind of went straight to... No, because I would just deny it.

Okay, gotcha. Yeah. So, yeah, so at this point, like, I'm talking to the detective and he, I just tell him exactly what Rennie told me to say. And then it was very much over. He did ask, well, you take a lie detector test? I said, yes, he never tested me. And I said yes because even though I didn't want to do it because I thought like he wouldn't do it if I was confident, which was right. So then the case was closed. In the report, I guess when he talked to Rennie, she admitted that we had romantic feelings for each other and we're waiting until I was 18 to be physical, which is crazy to me now, like because it's just so obvious that she's grooming me. Like. Right. Or also like, hello, like there you think there's a problem that she's attracted to a child? And the dynamic behind that with me,

in a state-ran facility that she worked in. Like, crazy. It makes me so angry reading that report. Yeah, that's odd. Yeah. So, yeah, super, super weird. And then, like, and I remember, like, being there for her so much because it was so scary for her, and it just makes me so angry, like, looking back.

After the investigation, I completely forgive my mom for this now because she went through hell trying to, like, get me away from this woman. she even asked her straight up, stay away from my daughter, and she still would come get me and shit. I, as a mom now, like, oof, I can't imagine what I would do in that situation. So my mom gave up, and basically she just let me do what I wanted. I was 16 at this time, and I basically moved in with her. And we were openly in a relationship at this point at 16. But if anybody was to ask us about, like, sex acts, of course, we're going to deny it. We're sleeping in the same queen-sized bed. Around this time, her mom died. Reni's mom died. And I was even in hospice with them.

And that's when things got really, really dark. She struggled really bad with alcoholism. And she would come home and, like, throw a 12-pack in the fridge. And she would drink probably like eight of them. It got to the point where I started chugging them so she would drink less because I was scared. Like, and she wasn't abusive besides being in a relationship with me. when she wasn't drunk. But when she was drunk, oh my God, like, it was a push and pull to the max. Just leave, just leave. Nobody loves me. Just leave. Just leave. Like so bad to where, like, I can't say no anymore. I can't tell you that I love you that I'm here because, like, it's just so intense. And then I leave. And then how could you have left me? Like, how could you? You're just like everybody else.

And to get into her childhood long story short, her dad's in prison to this day, if not dead, for molesting a Boy Scout, and I guess, like, they found blood in her diaper and tested it, and there was semen. So her dad is a pedophile. And, yeah, I mean, it's absolutely fucking horrible what happened to her as well. And, but unfortunately, I'm just not going to let what she did to me go because of that. Because at the end of the day, as an adult, it's her responsibility to get help and to, you know, heal from that. So she was bold enough to take me to her mom's funeral dinner.

It was like at a family member's house, but she didn't tell them we were together. She told them I was a kid from a group home that she was mentoring, which is also just so strange because it was like at 6 p.m. Like so, yeah, I mean, I meet all of her family and they think she's just such a great person for helping children after her horrible childhood. I try not to like laugh about it because it's so dumb because I do genuinely feel bad for her. I really do. But I have to stick up for that teenager, me, that nobody fucking else did shit for except my mom,

who ultimately gave up. Because I felt bad for her and had Stockholm syndrome for years. The police were constantly at our apartment. I don't know how that happened without them seeing what was going on. Just constantly. My mom had to call the police on her once because she was so drunk and I called my mom really scared. And then Rennie came in the room and my voice changed. I was like, oh, no, mom, everything's fine.

and I had mentioned to my mom that Rennie's sister, who also lived with us for a while and saw us sleeping in the same bed and thought we weren't together. She had a sword, like a samurai sword. And so the cops asked my mom, like, is there any weapons in the house? And they're like, she's like, there's a sword. And so, like, literally, like, 12 cop cars pull up. And luckily it scared the crap out of Rennie.

So, like, she stopped drinking for a bit. But then it would just start all over again. Again, when she put holes in our bathroom door trying to get to me, like she saw those the next day. and then would stop drinking for a bit, and then it would happen all over again. One night, I was ignoring her when she was doing, like, the push-pole thing, and she started kicking me in the ribs on the floor while I was pretending to be asleep. Besides that, I never really got physical, just the kicking in the ribs that one time.

But, yeah, it was just, it was horrible. And any time she would order a beer, like at a restaurant, I would get visibly upset and anxious. And then she would tell me that I was projecting my dad's alcoholism into her, which onto her, which was not true. She was an abusive drunk and maybe. But also, even if your girlfriend is going through that, like maybe don't get a beer. So, yeah, we went to that funeral and I met all of her family,

which was extremely wild. And they didn't really see anything, which to me, I just feel like it was so obvious. This was pretty close to when she ended things. But one night, she decided to go out with her cousin B. like to Mill Ave, which in Arizona, Mill Ave is like kind of like the partying like street. So

she went to Milaib and then she comes home and I am sleeping upstairs because of course I can't go. I'm like 16 or 17 at this point. And I hear voices and I'm like, well maybe like a female voice and I'm like oh like it must be like her cousin. Like maybe

he brought a girl back with him and they're just like hanging out whatever. But then I'm still listening and like I just don't hear a guy's voice at all ever. And I only hear Rennie's voice and the other voice. And I'm just like, what's going on? I fried my hair with bleach a few days prior and shaved my head. So I'm also extremely feeling insecure. And I don't have the balls to like go down there and be like, what's going on? I'm also very young. She took a ton of psych meds too and then would get belligerent. So I guess she told this woman that they were going to

go back to the apartment and smoke. Reni doesn't smoke weed. I don't know why she told her that, but she took her upstairs and they go in the bathroom. And I could see because the bedroom's right there. And the lady is like, where is it? And Reni just like says something random and weird. And I can tell that the girl is like, what is going on here? So then they end up leaving. I think what happened is the girl was like, let's go back to the bar. And so I see, I'm looking at the bedroom window. I can see her pulling out. And I'm like, I can't even believe she's driving right now. I call her with my friend Julie on three-way calls. So she still remembers this to this day. And I'm like, what are you doing? And like she said something back.

And I hear the girl say, I thought you didn't have a girlfriend. And Rennie goes, I don't. And hung up. And like, I was just like flabbergasted. During this time, we had just moved into this condo. And we had like one or two more nights at our other apartment. So I just, instead of driving an hour back to my mom's house, I just drove to that apartment and slept there. I go back the next morning.

Of course, she can't remember any of it. She's crying and she's being so sweet. And it's like, this is the person I've been craving and wanting for so long. and I just immediately forgive her. And it was just, it was so unhealthy. It was just constantly like that all the time. But that was like the best example. So me and Rennie would break up and get back together all the time.

And so it was just another normal breakup. And I knew we would get back together. But then I was at Olive Garden with my two high school best friends, one of them being the one who's here with me today. And I go on her on Rennie's Instagram. And she has Ashley May with a date. in the bio and my heart and my stomach was in my butt and my heart was in my throat and like I was just like shocked and that had never happened before in the three years that we were seeing

each other at this time I had just turned 18 and I also was living with her it basically was like yes but like I would be sleeping sometimes on my dad's my mom was having me back sometimes so like if anything got really bad with her I'd just go sleep at my mom so I just go sleep in my dad's like they would just let me come and go, basically. And so, yeah, I mean, I still had stuff at the condo. So I call her and I'm just losing my mind after I, like, leave my friends because I don't want them to see, like, how bad I lost my shit. And I, I really, like I said, the grooming was just so intense. Like, I felt like I wanted to hurt Ashley. Like, I called her and I was like, I'm going to fucking beat her ass. And I heard Ashley, and of course, I would never say that now.

like ever, but you know, I'm 18, and I hear Ashley laughing in the background. And that caused me to feel rage for like the first time in my life and maybe the only time. Like my entire body felt like tingly. Like, and so I drove to my friend's house, had her buy me wine. I chugged a whole much of red wine and then I took myself to a mental hospital because I was like, I'm going, I'm going to hurt this woman or I'm going to hurt myself. And so I'm going to put myself in here until I know that I won't hurt anybody. And she had, And he had the audacity to call me, call the hospital and make sure I was okay. That's what she said. And she's like, I was like, why are you calling me? And she was like, I'm just really worried about you.

I just wanted to make sure you're okay. I was like, I have to get through this. Like, I need you to leave me alone, like basically. So she left me alone. Time went by, like maybe like a couple months. And I guess Ashley knew that I'm a stoner. And at the time, like, it's weed wasn't legal. And so she, and she knew I was trying to get my locket back that my grandfather had given me that I left at in Rennie's bathroom. I had been asking Rennie for it for a while, but she just wouldn't respond or whatever. And so Ashley, like, I think she messaged me on Instagram or something, but she was just like, hey, like you smoke, right? And I was like, yeah. And she's like, Rennie is working the entire weekend at a group home.

She would sleep there. disgusting thinking about that now. Like literally she would go in like a like Saturday morning and come back like Sunday night or Monday morning, whatever. And so she's like if you want to come over and get your locket, can I buy like a gram or two from you? And I'm like, sure, why not? I would love to see my cats. Me and Reni had three cats together. So I go and knock on my old condo door and Ashley opens it wearing all of Renny's clothes. And like I see my cats in the background. And she says, do you just like want to come in and have a beer and talk? And I'm like, sure. So, you know, I'm 18 years old and she's giving me alcohol. She's, I think, 24, 25. And I end up like drinking four probably within like 30

minutes to an hour because I was anxious. And all of a sudden, like we're just like kind of talking crap about like Reni a little bit. And that, that was interesting. And then randomly, she says, you know, that you left like one of your shirts upstairs in the closet and I was like yeah and this is so weird but she was like sometimes I wear it and think of you and I'm like huh and you know I'm also kind of buzz so it's not super weird or anything and she's like let's go upstairs and get it and I'm like sure so we go upstairs and I sit on my old bed and I lay down and I'm like oh like I miss this bed you know and our cat named beef she would do this thing sometimes with Rennie and mostly with me where she, like, would crawl up us on the bed, and she would get on my head and start needing my

head. And she did it in front of Ashley, and Ashley was, like, jokingly being jealous. And she's like, she never does that with me. And it just sucked the whole situation. And then all of a sudden, Ash is like, we can, like, cuddle, right? Like, as I'm cuddling beef. And then all of a sudden, we're having sex. And I hooked up with her. So the next, I like to sleep there. And around, like, maybe five in the morning, like we wake up. I'm pretty sobered up at this point. And she says to me, I still have my apartment in Phoenix, like, if you want to, like, come there. And I'm like, no, like, I'm literally still in love with Rennie. Like, this whole situation is horrible. And I even remember that night where, like, we were drinking the beers. Like, I asked her, I'm like,

are you setting me up? Like, is something happening? Like, and so I was shocked, like, that that whole thing happened. And I'm like, I need to get out of here. Like, I honestly felt bad. Like, If you're a fan of true crime, horror, or creepy encounters, you've got to listen to disturbed true horror stories. Each episode shares the terrifying experiences of real people, retold by professional actors. I bit down on his hand and he pulled back, but he puts the knife a little harder against my sweatshirt. I began to hear the breathing and growling of what could only come from a monster. Find disturbed true horror stories wherever you enjoy your podcasts. I'm Heather McDonald, host of Juicy Scoop, the number one longest running comedy interview

podcast for over a decade. Well, now I'm bringing you some of the juiciest true crime episodes. We'll dive into the most outrageous crimes of passion, greed, deception, and scandal. From cunning grifters to shocking betrayals, and yes, sometimes a love affair so twisted that someone ends up dead, maybe even at the hands of their hot dentist. I'll be joined by a rotating panel of special guests, including my sister Shannon, a criminal defense attorney, along with police officers, detectives, and even my own husband, Peter, who's always ready to break down those infamous cases

where a wife takes out her husband. So buckle up because we're about to revisit classic juicy crimes and uncover the latest cases everyone is talking about. Subscribe to Juicy Crimes for free at Apple Podcast. podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I don't really like that I did that at all. And I also think it was gross of Ashley to do that. I mean, for many different reasons, being my age, I mean, I'm barely 18, giving me alcohol,

all of that. It's just gross, gross situation. And she didn't tell Reni right away. But then, like, probably four days went by. And she messaged me and she's like, hey, I'm getting really drunk right now so I could tell Reni the truth. And I'm just kind of, like, you know, preparing myself for an explosion. And then Rennie called me and she was just like going off.

And she ended up staying with Ashley for like three more years. And Ashley had two kids, two little boys, which also just. So in that three years, you and her didn't ever come. No. No. So that was the end of it. So I end up meeting my next girlfriend on like Instagram and I end up moving to Long Beach, California.

I could not be in Arizona, especially Mesa, like East Arizona, because that's where she lived. And, like, I couldn't be there. Just, like, seeing anything that any place we were together, like, I could not do it. I was just so, I just couldn't do it. I was heartbroken. So I move in with my new girlfriend. I'm going to call her Lynn. She was there for me through the worst time in my life. And I can never repay her because I treated her absolutely terrible. I did not know why I was such a horrible partner and friend. I, Lynn ended up. up having to break up with me. And I ended up taking advantage so badly of her because she's not going to throw me out on the streets. My mom won't let me come home because I'm actively an alcoholic

at this point. Like I'm drinking vodka every single day. I'm waking up on the sidewalk. Like, I stole alcohol from the grocery store so much. The cops knew by name, not from stealing, but from suicide attempts. They knew who I was. They even called my mom out of state because they were worried that I was going to get shot from a police officer for resisting because I would resist. But yeah, I was just, I was self-harming. I literally looked for buildings to jump off of. I went into a really, really nice. It's like one of like the oldest buildings in Long Beach. It's a hotel, it's like a hotel, or maybe it's like condos. But it's like this beautiful giant green building right by the beach. And it's really, really tall. And I went in. And of course, it's very expensive to live there. And this man with like a

very expensive little dog was like, do you live here? And then I'm glad he was so rude because I ended up leaving. But I was going up to the top. And I just like genuinely wanted to die. And I didn't know why I was such a, I was like so dark. I didn't know. I didn't realize like what Rennie really did to me. And like luckily seeing it all now, I forgive myself for that time of my life. But I lost so many friends. I lost all my family. I treated Lynn like horrible. Like I've never treated anybody that poorly in my life. And I don't know why he's still like so close with me, but I can never pay, like repay him. There was a time that he came home from, I'm so sorry, Lynn's uses multiple pronouns. Okay. There was a time that Lynn came home from work and I was very drunk and

sleeping and she turned on the lights and I was like, turn the lights back off. And she was like, no, like you need to get up. Like, and we weren't even together anymore. I'm just couch surfing and I won't leave. I feel so terrible. And again, just like turning on the lights and I just was like saying mean stuff back. And then she said, you're just like your dad. And when she said that, I lost my shit again. And I started going after her just like I did my mom. And she called the police, they didn't listen to her, and they said, if it happens again, call us. It happened again. And they came and arrested me. And it was the only time I ever went to jail. And I'm so happy that they took me to jail. And I'm so happy she called the police because I needed that.

It scared me so bad that I never cut myself again because I was afraid that like the cops were going to show up and I would go back to jail. And guess who picked me up from jail? Lynn did. And that's a real, a real friend. And Lynn knows everything that happened like with Reni and all of that. And I would get super drunk and cry for Reni. Like, and she still was there for me. And she's still one of my best friends. And I, man, it makes me, like, emotional. Whew, I just love her a lot. So it's really cool, like, how you could be friends with your exes, like, genuinely and, like, because they know you so well. But it just meant so much that she picked me up from jail after I hurt her like that. So, yeah, I just didn't know what the, like,

why I hated myself so deeply because I didn't know why I was so horrible to, like, the ones that I loved. I could not be faithful. I just, I was a bad friend and a bad partner. And then basically, I met Andrew, who was later became my fiance. We met in Long Beach and he ended up having to move to Mississippi where he's from because his mom was really sick. And he got like really lonely there and we already had like been dating for a while. So we asked me to move in with him. So I moved to Mississippi and I lived there for two years until his mom passed away and we ended up getting engaged. We loved each other a lot. We still love each other, but unfortunately, we just didn't want the same things. He likes to rave a lot, and I wanted a family and have kids and

get married and settle down and stuff. But luckily, we're still really good friends. Our cat literally switches houses still. And that was a really good point in my life, but I still was struggling with, like, drinking a lot. And like, just still there's something inside of me that I don't know what is wrong. All of a sudden, while I'm with Drew, like, we're still living together. but we're not like really together. I am working at Chili's and I see this woman eating. I'm not even serving her. And she ended up staying there for like two hours because her and her friend were just vibing. And I gave her my number. And she later ended up being my wife. We're biologically like able to have kids. If somebody can't figure that out, they can Google it. I don't feel like

explaining it. But we're able to biologically have children together, which is really cool as a lesbian couple. And then I got pregnant with my first baby and he changed my life. Becoming a mom gave me self-worth. It made me care about the planet more. It made me care about, it made me be able to set boundaries better. Like, it's done so much for me. But I still was just drinking so much. And then being on psych meds while drinking, it's basically like, I would have word salad. I would just say things that, like words that didn't even go together. Like I once, my rock bottom was, I, didn't know who my wife was and I thought she was trying to take my baby. And when I woke up the next day, like, I realized I was like, I'm going to be a bad mom or I'm going to lose my kids. And if I

lose my kids, I'm going to die. Like, I can't do that. So I just like stopped drinking. And everything just started falling into place. So at this point, I've only been in Arizona now for like a year since Mississippi. And I know Reni lives in Arizona. And it's been a really long time. So, I think I messaged her on Insta. So what was the gap in between since you had talked to her? So I hadn't seen her since I was 18 and I'm now 28. And you have a kid. And I have a kid. He's six months old.

Okay. And the first time you guys were together, it was about three years. Okay, gotcha. Yes. So from 15 to 18. And then so I message her and I'm like, I really want to talk. And at this point, I'm at the very. beginning of like what you did was wrong. I feel that way. And I want to talk to her about it.

Yeah. So we're on the phone. And it's crazy. Like I'm just, I'm like, I can't believe this is happening. And like the Stockholm syndrome in me, like, I swear, I still like, even though I met the love of my life, I'm the happiest I've ever been. There's just that Stockholm syndrome that's like we're going to end up together. Even though like I didn't really think that, I don't know. It's just a weird thing that's just inside of me. Well, I think it was pulling on your, I'm going to say childhood traumas, things that you feel like you were lacking and like how you found that in her, I think naturally it's like your body and your brain that wants to fall back into those patterns that felt comforting. Yes, exactly. So yeah, so she, I say to her, I would really like to talk in person and I'm like,

where do you live? And she's like Chandler. I'm in Mesa. They're right next to each other. I realize she lives like 15 minutes away. And I'm like, can I come talk to you in person? And she's like, yeah, I'm sure the cats would love to see you. And I'm like, oh, my God. Like, I get to see my cats. Like, they're all still alive. Like, I was so stoked. But I'm also, like, driving. And I asked my wife, I woke her up. And I was like, can I do this? And she was like, if that's what you need to do, like, I trust you. I'm very honest with my wife. Tell her everything. So, yeah, I'm driving there. I'm out loud being like, oh, my God, oh my God, oh my God. Like, I can't believe this is finally happening. This is crazy. It's, like I said, it's just so weird. Because I have.

that part of me that's like excited to see her because I miss her and then that part of me that's just like so mad and like you're disgusting. So I get there. She looks exactly the same, just a little older. And she has a nice house now. She's a veteran. So she got like alone through the VA. She got a house, whatever. It's nice. And we just sat in her living room and talked. And I let her know that like it caused a lot of trauma and pain in my life. But I'm at the very beginning of my healing journey. My wife has autism and it's very noticeable. And it was a. extremely offensive to me that Rennie told me that she thinks what happened between us happened because she got diagnosed with autism recently. And for me, I have ADHD. So like,

it takes me a while to process. So in the moment, I wasn't mad. I just was kind of asking her more questions. Like, well, what, what about you do you think? Like, she's also not diagnosed, by the way. She diagnosed herself. She shows me this note that she has on her phone. It's very long. And it's all the the reasons and, like, symptoms that she has that she thinks she has autism. And genuinely, I think that she's probably right. But after this, like, encounter, I got really angry because I was like, autism and pedophilia have no correlation. Right. If anything, people with autism are very much by the book. And so if they know something's illegal, they're not going to do it or they'll probably have a panic attack. And so I just, I got really put off and angry about that. I let my wife know about it.

it made her extremely upset too. And at this point, I just didn't talk to her again. And she didn't talk to me either. So I would say another year went by. Yeah, one year. April of 2025, I decided that I was ready to report her. And so I basically I did it by calling the police. And of course, you know, I called the Mesa police, tell them the entire thing. And then they tell me I have to call the Chandler police because that's where she is. And then I do that and they say, no, it has to be Mesa because that's where the first crime took, like, it was such a pain in the butt. So I do that. And then I get, like, scheduled to go talk to a detective. I found out she was a woman and I was really happy to hear that. And I go and talk to her. I felt really better after. And she's like, yeah, that's really normal. And so she told me the first thing

I'm going to do, and this is Mesa police, by the way. The first thing I'm going to do is I'm going to call your mom. I'm going to ask her, like, her side of the story and all that. I gave her a giant piece a paper of every single person that knew about our relationship, that had seen us together, everything. I even gave her a phone number of another employee at the new foundation who was friends with her and hung out with her at a bar a couple times until she found out about our relationship. Yeah. So I do all that and I'm expecting her to call my mom. And like a month goes by. And my mom's like, I still haven't heard from her. And I'm like, that's so weird. Like she said the first thing she was going to do is call you. Another month goes by. Another month goes by. Another month goes by.

I'm starting to get upset. And so I posted like a TikTok about it. And I've also called her twice. She's not answering. I left one voicemail. And yeah, I'm just frustrated. So I posted TikTok about it. And a day later I get this message in my inbox. And it's, it's from this like pretty good and known like film director. And I was like, like, she was like, do you want to be in a documentary about like state care? in Arizona and like the troubles of it. I saw your TikTok and what happened to you and I would like, I think you would be a really good person for this documentary. And so I was like, definitely. So I go to my first interview for the documentary. It's actually the one that's in the trailer of it. And telling my story for the first time, it made me have more realizations. And it made me like,

having somebody for the first time want to hear my story and tell me that's so messed up. I can't believe nobody did anything and like validated it so much like and and wanted me there to tell my story like it I don't know it did something for me like and it made me realize like how bad it was what happened to me and I still was so behind in my healing journey that I ended up calling the director like two days later because me and her have become really good friends and I'm like oh my God like she really is like a P word like I just got the 2012 police report back and spent hours sobbing in the shower because it says that she got fired from the new foundation for inappropriate relations with patients. And it was like when I read that, all of the grooming

that she did just disappeared. And it was like, holy fuck, she's a pedophile. And so I call Rowena, that's her name, the director, and I tell her this. And she's like, you know, I could tell during our first interview that you were still at the very like beginning of your healing process. And I wanted to tell you, like, you know, she's a pedophile, right? But I wanted you to come to that realization on your own. And I did. And I, I've lost my closest family member to death. And, like, I have to say, I have never cried that hard in my entire life than I did when I found out why she got, like, got fired from the new foundation. Like, I was just flabbergasted. I was like, wow, I'm actually not special. Like, that's exactly what I was going to say. I was going to say, I'm sure there's

also the, the hurt and the feelings of, like, you, it sounds, it sounds bad saying it. But, Because I am special, but like she made me feel like I'm more special than any kid. And like our love is so like out of this world. Even though you knew it wasn't right on her end. And obviously like your mom thought it was wrong. All this stuff was happening that you knew this wasn't a good dynamic. It did make you feel like, oh, but she chose me. Like I'm special.

Even if she's telling people, oh, we're we need to be together until she's older. Like it makes you feel special. And then just to hear that she's, She was basically targeting all, you know, younger, underage kids. It's sick. Yep. And it just, I don't know. It was like I was grieving our entire relationship.

And I don't know. Like, I don't know. Like, I don't feel like you abuse someone you love. But like I felt in that moment, like she never loved me. Like, just like you said, like I wasn't special, like in that way. It sounds so weird. It does. But that is, when you're in a relationship, no matter how right, wrong, whatever it is,

that's part of it. You feel like someone's choosing you. feel special. So besides any of the dynamics, it takes away from that. You put that so well. Thank you. I was like, you just like figured out what I was trying to say. It's difficult because it's like you don't want it to sound like wrong in any way because it is such like a, it's almost like this tiptoe subject in the way. It's taboo. It's people. People don't know. There isn't really right verbiage for it. And so it's hard to explain it. And it's weird telling someone you're not special because like you don't mean it in like a certain way but you mean in another way yeah yeah

yeah did you ever tell her that you were going to report her or anything like that or no so after i got no response from the detective it's actually the next part of the story perfect timing for that question i started making poor choices in my investigation i messed it up a little i emailed her and i told her what i did and i said you should go turn yourself in and at this point my stockholm syndrome is at the point where i still believe that she loved me a little bit and And like, I'm like, I feel like she would turn herself in. If she knew, not right now, but I don't feel that way now. But like if she knew just how bad she hurt me, like I think, I feel like she would do it.

And she's very mentally ill. So, like, I don't even feel like she would get any time. So I message her that. And she is just like, stop posting TikToks about me. Like, stop messaging me. I haven't heard from any detective. Like, you've never changed. and I just got so upset.

And the only people who knew that I went and saw her last time were my wife, her, and my mom. And all of a sudden on TikTok, this random account comments on a TikTok about her. And it says, so funny because Jessica showed up at her door a year ago, begging for her back. It's a compulsion, I'm sure. And then she says, this part is crazy. picture this, a mentally ill teenager, abusing a disabled adult, disabled autistic adult, she said. And I was just like, I was so flabbergasted. And people on TikTok were like, are you blaming a minor for an adult, like, grooming them?

And so I knew right away it was her. Absolutely. Obviously, nobody else knows about that. And I was just like, I can't even believe that that's her justification. Like she genuinely thinks a kid manipulated her into a relationship. Oh my God, that's wild to me. Oh, and basically after this, I am, I'm just, I'm angry. And it's now November.

I reported in April. At this point, I've left three voicemails. I've called six times. So I call the, like, it's like she works at like this like sex crimes advocate center, the detective. And so I call the advocate center. And she gives me the sergeant's number. And she's like, call her sergeant.

just like leave a voicemail and they'll definitely get back to. And I'm like, okay, so I do that. And then the director of the documentary, she's just really helping me with this healing process. And she gives me like a number of like sexually abused like children of America's like phone number, helpline or something. So like I call them and then they report it and they get like the task force on it. So I'm actually thinking that like shit, things are happening. Like the task force is on my case. Whatever. So now, probably about two or three months ago now, so it's been over a year. I get a call from the detective, finally.

Right. And, yeah, she calls me and she says, so I talked to Reni. She let me know that you told her about the investigation. Also, I also heard that you reported to somebody else. I didn't appreciate that. She said that. I didn't appreciate that. And I said back to her, I was like, I'm really, I wish I had a different response,

But it takes me all the process things, like I said. But I said, I'm really sorry. I just didn't hear from you for so long. Like, I didn't even know if there was a case going on. Yeah. And she's like, well, I talked to Rennie. We can't prove any sex crimes. So we're closing your case.

And at this point, like, I thought like a big case was happening. Like the task force is on it. Like, and I was just like, what? It takes one second to call somebody back. But I'm extremely proud of myself because if something like this happened to me before, I would have slit my wrist, like try to kill myself. all of that. And I have it on video of me finding out because I have cameras throughout my house and I'm in my my little boys room alone like they're in the other room. And I like fold in my knees for a second and I'm

just like kind of like I let out like a mad like groan loudly. And I said effing B. And then I heard my kids and I got up and I continued my day and taking care of them and because they matter the most. And I was honestly dumbfounded that like I reacted so well. And I was really. proud of myself. I think that the detective, like, was mad at me for contacting another, like, corporation or whatever and for contacting her sergeant. And I think she just took Reni's word for it because of that and then just close the case. And I think that's genuinely what happened. I asked her, I'm like, can we get her for, like, grooming or, like, giving me alcohol or something? And she's like, grooming isn't, grooming isn't illegal in the state of Arizona.

And then that was it. Thanks for your sympathy. Hello, juicy crime lovers. I'm Heather McDonald, host of Juicy Scoop, the number one longest running comedy interview podcast for over a decade. Well, now I'm bringing you some of the juiciest true crime episodes. We'll dive into the most outrageous crimes of passion, greed, deception, and scandal. From cunning grifters to shocking betrayals, and yes, sometimes a love affair so twisted,

that someone ends up dead, maybe even at the hands of their hot dentist. I'll be joined by a rotating panel of special guests, including my sister Shannon, a criminal defense attorney, along with police officers, detectives, and even my own husband, Peter, who's always ready to break down those infamous cases where a wife takes out her husband. So buckle up because we're about to revisit classic juicy crimes and uncover the latest cases everyone is talking about. Subscribe to Juicy Crimes for free at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you're a fan of true crime, horror, or creepy encounters, you've got to listen to disturbed true horror stories. Each episode shares the terrifying experiences of real people, retold by professional actors.

I bit down on his hand and he pulled back, but he puts the knife a little harder against my sweatshirt. I began to hear the breathing and growling of what could only come from a monster. Find disturbed true horror stories wherever you enjoy your podcasts. Unfortunately, I forgot a major part, but right before I got that news from the detective, I was at work one day. And all of a sudden, my, like, host comes up to me, I'm a server. And she says, Jess, there's somebody at the front asking for you by name. And I'm like, that's weird. So I go up and this old man is standing up there and he's like, come here.

He brings me outside. And I'm like, what is happening right now? And this is after she told me not to contact her again. I responded to her email and said, please, I would love to go to court. Please, let's go to court. And I called her a pedophile in it. You're a pedophile, and I would love to get the justice I deserve. Besides calling her a pedophile, I've never called her names.

I've never threatened her. I've never done anything like that. And I got served with a restraining order during my investigation before it got closed. like only because I'm talking about what happened to me on TikTok and because I sent her two emails. Two, one, telling her, why did you post a video of our cats dying, literally, getting put down? If anything, you should have posted, like, a compilation of, like, her happy moments. Like, that was so hard to see. And then one other saying, turn yourself in.

I'm sorry, well, two more. Turn yourself in. And then her response and then me saying, please, I'd love to go to court. So I got served with this training order. I swear she like posted something, like said something on chat, GPT and then had it like form it for her and then copied and pasted it and like asked chat QBT, I know she uses it, like asked what she needs to say in order to get it approved. She said that I've sent her hundreds if not thousands of voice recordings and that I made fun of her disability,

which I did not. I said that pedophilia and autism don't go together. That's what I said about her disability. and I was just like, this is crazy. I am fighting it because it's absolutely bullshit. So we go to court and I have to see my abuser again. I luckily, like, had my mom go with me. And I was so grateful because, like, she did not want to go. Like, she hates Rennie. And the whole way there, she was not in a good mood. Like, she didn't want to do it, but she was doing it for me. During the court hearing, like, it was the first.

first and only time that I had my mom there. I had Reni there. I had Reni's sister there. And I said what Reni did to me and how it was wrong. And it was like me and my mom had all of this like stuff between us that we didn't even know was there. And it was like I, it's like Reni took me away from my mom. That's what my mom felt like. And in that moment, it was like I was fixing it. Like it was such a beautiful moment. Like, I was like, no. Like, my mom was right, like, almost like to Reni sitting right there. And she was so weird. Like, she like randomly, like, her lawyer like was asking her questions. And she was like, and you guys didn't talk for a while after she moved out, right? And then Reni said, yeah, after we separated, blah, blah, blah. And she's like, and when you say separated,

you mean move out, right? And then another time she ran like asked, ask her about the new foundation. Like you worked there from this time to this time. And then she's like, yeah, I quit. Like, just randomly. Nobody asked you if you quit. Like, she just made herself obviously look so guilty. And unfortunately, simply because I responded to her after she said, don't respond or I'll contact my lawyer. Technically, that's harassment.

So I couldn't get it removed. But honestly, I'm so happy I did it because I healed that between me and my mom and the judge was like looking at her weird. And was like, kind of like he, he literally prefaced his decision by saying, this does not mean that there's not another case in here, like that you shouldn't pursue. But, you know, she specifically asked you not to contact her and you did and you called her a word that isn't true technically. And so, yeah, I couldn't get it removed. But I'm extremely happy I did it because I documented like everything that she said. And I thought it would help with my case, especially because like she admitted. I lived with her underage. I had that proof. She admitted that she worked out the new foundation while I was there. She admitted all of that. So I really thought that that court hearing like really would help me. I even spent like $100 to like get it printed out like all of that. I did so much for this case. I did stuff that I never did in my adult life. Like I went and like

got things notarized. Like I never did any of that. I put so much effort into it more effort than I had ever. And I'm so proud of myself. And I feel like I did it. to try to justify my darkness and my actions after the fact. And I realized, like, just because I got, like, a, I didn't get justice, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Like, I almost was trying to prove to myself that it happened in order to feel better for the way that I reacted to trauma. But everybody knows it happens. Sometimes I genuinely, like, think it didn't happen because it's been so long. And being called a liar so much is, like, it almost makes you feel like you're going crazy. And that's why having people in my life like Katie and like people that were there is like really important to me because it like helps me to be like okay wait.

I'm not going crazy. This really happened. This was wrong. And so I'm really happy because in the documentary too, they caught all of that with my mom after the fact like me and her like crying hugging in the parking lot. Like it was just such a good moment. And I'm really happy it went the way it did. If I did get like the restraining order removed and like also got. justice. That obviously would have been like a perfect outcome, but you can't do, you can't get it

all. But honestly, just simply like being on TikTok and telling my story, like that has healed me. It's made me process it, like genuinely. And the investigation was the hardest thing I've ever done. And honestly, I think like the system with like reporting and like what you need in order to get justice is absolute bullshit. But I'm so happy I did it because I was able to like, it was horrible. But I process everything that. happened through it. I don't recommend reporting unless you have hard, hard, hard evidence, like a video. Right. Because having to go through that is like... The amount of times I had to tell my story

was absolutely wild and I've heard other people talk about that too. And it's just, it's just not right. Like you can have so much, like you can have admissions like she said. I was in. Yeah, that doesn't make sense to me. Yeah. But oh, there's no sex acts. So it's fine. There's no proof of sex acts. Like DCS and Arizona, like CPS there, they came and did a tour of me and Rennie's condo, and Rennie set up a blanket and pillow on the side, like on the floor of our queen-sized bed and said that she slept there and I slept in the bed.

And I remember the worker like being really weird and rude to us because she knew what was happening, like I think. And I don't think she could do anything about it. And that's the problem because you would think, like I wanted to work like for that system because of what happened to me. But it's a broken system. So you can't even do anything to help. So I think the best answer,

is like a nonprofit or even fostering kids. And this whole experience made me want to be a foster mom. I definitely want to wait until my kids now are like adults because I want to put everything into it. But yeah, I mean, I really, really, really want to foster like mentally ill teenagers because a lot of parents don't know what to do in that situation. And then they give them over to the state and not knowing like my mom's brochure for the new foundation was impeccable. Like this seemed like the best treatment center ever and they're horrible. And these like state ran facilities, they basically donate like hundreds of thousands of dollars to political parties and then give the kids like really poor care. The same year that I was in state care in 2010,

there was not around 19,000 foster kids that year, which was the highest in the entire country ever. And 75% of kids that are missing in Arizona are foster kids. One really known case in 2025 was Emily Pike, but she went missing from sunshine, I believe, in Mesa. Side note, I actually think there was somebody on here that was in that group home. But so many bad things have happened there, and they ended up finding her dead at a park. A pregnant native foster kid was also found murdered. Like, it's just horrible, and these places will just let you go.

And Arizona is also a very big. state for like sex trafficking. And it's just it's not right. And like something needs to be done about it. And I just can't even believe that like these places can donate to political parties. Like it's wild to me. And then give really poor care and hire people that don't even have the training that they should have to be around like these kids. I think too, it's crazy to me that regardless of proof of sexual acts, I mean, she was supposed to be an adult helping a child in this program, there should have been no reason why you were ever staying at our house, why there was ever any type of communication. Like that right there should be enough. And it's sad that it's not.

And I think unfortunately, you know, we are in a world where thankfully some people do get the justice. And then other people, they're left with having to advocate for themselves. And that's amazing as well. It's unfortunate because, like you said, the system is broken. But I think that how you said you've listened to a good amount of episodes and heard episodes where you've listened multiple times because it helps you feel validated and like you're not alone. And I think that's the beauty and the importance of sharing your story because it creates this, this platform and this space and this community where you don't even need to directly speak to somebody to feel heard and understood and like you aren't alone in a situation. And I think sometimes

the most we can do is spread awareness so that more people are aware of these things because they're just not talked about or they're not taken very seriously, it seems. Yeah, I feel like that's why I was going back and forth about sharing, like, hitting my mom and stuff like that. But, like, it really is so important to, like, be, like, if other people on this show weren't so honest

about such dark things, like, I wouldn't have been so brave in order to share that. And I think that's the beauty because letting that out feel so good. Like it really does. Like I like, and I've done the work to like forgive myself and everything. And so I think it's important to like be honest about that kind of stuff because there can be other people that have done that in their past that have like completely put in the work and change that just like still hate themselves for doing something like that. Well, I think too it's the shame and the embarrassment about things that have happened to people, whether it's something that's happened to them or something that they have done. Right. And I think it's.

that shame and that embarrassment and the fear of sharing it. What would people think of me? I even don't feel comfortable sharing it. But like you said, I think sharing it is accepting that it happened and it's not trying to, we know we can't go back and change it. And I think taking accountability is huge.

Absolutely. And also it shows how deep the grooming went and just how good she had me. Even a place you were in. You know, and I think a lot of people have been in a place where they do things that they would never do now. Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't hurt a fly now.

Right. So much time has gone by. It's part of the human experience. And it's not to say that it's right or to make an excuse, but it's real and it's raw. And there's a lot of people that have been in those types of moments where they might reflect and be like, I hated myself then. Like, I can't believe that I allowed myself to be that way or I allowed somebody to bring that out of me. And in those moments, we might not even realize that that that's happening. It takes time and experience and maturity and healing to realize what, you know, that person was

doing to you was wrong. What they did to you was grooming, that they were pedophile. But those things come with with time and understanding. Yeah. And the people that like stayed in my life when I was that toxic, like Lynn and like my friend Joanne and Long Beach and like just like a lot of people, I love them that much more that they loved me at my worst. And still like now we have such an amazing.

great friendship. And they could see you grow, which is incredible. Yes. And like it's, I love talking to people to that just know my history. Like it, I don't know, it just like feels deeper. But yeah, I mean, I've had such amazing people in my life that have helped me through this. And I feel so much less guilt for things that I've done now that I've processed like what happened to me. And I feel like it made it make sense. Yeah. I'm like, that's why I was doing that? Because at the time, I was like, why am I like this? Like, I'm not a good person. Well, I think too, it, it goes to show that because obviously there are, there's a, there can be a lot of overlap on this show. People will go through something similar or they can find comfort in hearing someone's story

that they feel like I can relate to that or I could, whether it's a feeling and experience, whatever it may be. But I think the importance of also hearing all of these different stories that may have some overlap is that it shows that while yes, some kids might have a horrible childhood that might lead to things happening or lead to decisions that they make, There can be other kids that they might have a childhood where to some people it might not be so bad, but because of circumstances that it led to, for example, you having to be in a group home or you going to get mental help, it was something that kind of was an adult took advantage of a vulnerable child. And that to me, even though you sought out comfort in her in ways that you might not,

have found in your childhood at certain times, those two things were so separate. And I think that people need to realize, because I think it's very easy to judge a book by its cover, and people need to realize, my point is, is that it can happen to anybody, you know, and it doesn't have to be just people that are just children that have horrible childhoods. You know, it doesn't have to be damaged children. It could be children that maybe they are struggling with mental health at some point in their life, you know, whatever the reason may be. And then completely separate from that somebody with serious issues took advantage of that situation. You know, and that kind of led you into a whole other chapter of your life that you had to

heal from and sort through and whatever else. But I think it's just really important not to judge a book by its cover, not to, and also to realize that every situation is unique on its own. And not to think that pedophiles all look the same. It's not just your creepy, like old weirdo, you know. It's somebody that you look at for help. And that's why it's so, yeah, it's so important to talk to your kids. Because if you can't even trust teachers at school, like in Arizona, there was, like, very

recently two female teachers that both got caught grooming the same student. But it's like if you can't even trust teachers, like you can't touch, trust doctors. I mean, like, you can't trust anything. Then you have to talk to your kids. And it's really important to me to constantly be asking my kids, how does this person make you feel? I think it's really important. And I highly recommend don't let your kids texting, text with an adult. Like, just don't.

There's no reason. There's no reason why they should be texting with an adult. Yeah, I think that would have, I mean, if we didn't text, none of that would have been happening. So I think, too, another thing I would have mentioned, and this is no fault of any, like, your parents by any means. But I think your story also educates in that sense. And even for yourself, you know, like there are things that,

I'm sure to a degree you can look back on and be like, well, as a parent, I would have done this, this, and this. And it almost, I love that though, because it breaks a cycle. And at the end of the day, it's very easy for us to look at our parents and say what they should have done or could have done. But at the end of the day, they're just humans like us. Oh, yeah. Just a little bit older. But that doesn't mean that's a process for giving my mom even. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the thing, though, is like, I'm sure it has taught her a lot throughout the process. And it's something where just because they're our approach. parents and they're adults and yes, their job is to protect us. They're not perfect either. They don't know how to handle situations or sometimes they might feel like it's just easier to just let them do their thing when it comes to their kids, you know? I think it's like so beautiful that you already have that mentality before becoming a mother. Yeah. Because it took me becoming a mom to realize that. Well, it's, at the end of the day, everyone is just a human trying to make it through. You know, and I think that everybody that comes on this show is whether they're all,

already healed or they're still healing or they're trying to heal. That's what the goal is. It's the spread awareness. It's to heal. It's to help themselves. It's to help others. And of course, I think there's always going to be some people in these stories that are at fault without a doubt, you know. And we know who the, what's the word I'm looking for? Not the demons. The aggressor. Yes, sure. We'll say that. Who they are in the story. But then there's also these people in the story throughout that enable it almost. Enable, but also like needed education too. Oh, yeah.

And that's the point of sharing stories. My mom didn't even know what grooming was. She never heard that word back then. It educates. And I think that that's why sharing stories is so important and why the repetition of these stories is so important because they're not talked about in this depth. You know, you hear it. And even to this day, I mean, people, I will tell friends and people all the time like,

yeah, I'm having someone on that was groomed by this person or that person. And they still don't understand what that means. And even for yourself, you know, as you were telling your story, I can't remember what part it was. But yeah, I didn't realize something was groomed. Right. It's the fingering aspect. It's like it's almost in a way, I think people are, they're testing the water. Yeah. They're seeing what can I say and how can I say this in a way that makes it so normal and so comfortable that if they were to do it to you, it would be like, oh, this is cool or this is that, you know, and so many things are, that's what that is. And I think now we just kind of have the right wording for it, but it still is something that

people aren't very familiar with. And they don't know the signs and things, there's a lot of things that are looked at as innocent or blown off, and it shouldn't be because people are sick in their own ways, but they are very sick. I think also the education that, like, you can't even trust state ran mental facilities. I didn't know that. Like, that's wild. And I hate to say this because it can seem negative, but you really can't trust anybody.

I think trust needs to be earned. Yeah. I think you have to tread very lightly and you have to be careful and it's sad. But once again, at the end of the day, just because you are law enforcement or you work at a facility or a hospital or whatever, that doesn't make you any less or any more human. We're all human, you know. And some people still have these sicknesses and flaws. even if they're in a career that we're supposed to trust and feel safe and protected. And that's what's scary.

Yeah. And that's life. That's really scary. And it's shit. But you're amazing. And there's so many positive things to look at out with life as well. So like my two kids. Yes.

And I think the fact that you're willing and able to continue to share your story. Because you know that like you said to it, it can go back to when you don't get justice, you can start to think to yourself, is it me? And, you know, like, am I crazy? Is my story really not that important that people wouldn't think, that people need physical proof of this happening to me to hold this person accountable? So I commend you for still wanting to share your story and spread awareness and help other children. I mean, that's a beautiful thing. And that's something that I think when you get to that point will heal you in so many ways and will be so full circle.

Because sometimes, unfortunately, it takes people going through these horrible, things to become someone that can help people so much because you get it. Yeah, because I would never want to be a foster mom if I didn't go through that. Right. Well, I also want to say, like, thank you for commending me for sharing my story, but like Rowena, the director and you wanting to hear it and caring is literally what helped me heal. So I thank you for that, like majorly.