We're All Insane - I Got Catfished

Episode Date: April 22, 2024

In a world where connections are made through screens, the line between reality and deception blurs. Join us on a captivating journey as we unveil the gripping tale of a sheltered girl who fell victim to the intricate web of online deceit. Rochelle's Links: TikTok : @rochelleanne0 If you have a unique story you'd like to share on the podcast, please fill out this form: https://forms.gle/ZiHgdoK4PLRAddiB9 or send an email to [e-mail] Business Inquiries please contact: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, it's me Devorah. I just dropped an all-new bonus episode inside my new subscription channel, We're All Insane Plus. This week's bonus episode is called My Brain was slipping into my spine. Listen now by subscribing to We're All Insane Plus inside your Spotify or Apple Podcasts app or go to we're all insane.com. My name is Rochelle. I'm from Western Canada and this is the story of how I was catfish. I grew up in an extremely sheltered household, and I was the only girl. I had four brothers with me, so you can imagine that kind of was against me already. So the person who kind of like perpetrated that was my dad for the most part. He was like pretty abusive in like kind of every form mostly.

Like we didn't get all the forms of abuse, but my mom definitely did. But we got like as kids, we got like emotionally abused and. For the most part, yeah. Yeah. And when you say, like, sheltered growing up, do you just mean, like, in every aspect, like with friends or with, you know, like TV or, you know what I mean? Yeah. In which ways?

I think mostly just with, like, friends and social settings because my dad was very protective of me. Got it. I was like his girl. He does have one other daughter, but she's not living in that situation. So it was just me there as his girl. Yeah. So, yeah, like I wasn't allowed.

to like have sleepovers. I wasn't allowed to like really hang out with friends, not too much, unless like my family knew or my parents knew who they were. Like my one best friend, Danny of 17 years. I was always allowed to like hang out with her, but I wasn't ever allowed to have a sleepover at her house. Okay. Which is like, was she able to sleep over yours?

No. Like my dad just didn't want anyone. He was kind of like a secretive. Yeah. I don't know how to explain it. I understand. I got it. Yeah.

And then also, like, wasn't really allowed to do sports or, like, extracurricular activities. I think that's, like, partly because, like, we didn't have tons of money, but also just because my debt was controlling. Yeah, I was going to say, the control aspect. Yeah. Yeah. And then, yeah, like, as I grew up, too, I wasn't allowed to, like, stay out late or, like, go to parties or kind of, like, do regular teenager things.

Mm-hmm. And especially, like, this is, like, a really big thing is I wasn't allowed to date or have any boyfriends. So I think like I'm not in contact with my dad at the moment and haven't been for like the past like seven or so years. Okay. But I think like even now if if we were, I feel like he would still not want me to have a boyfriend at my ripe age of 27 years old. So yeah, my childhood was very chaotic. My parents were always fighting like throughout my whole life as a child and a teenager. And I just remember always being scared. I was like always. scared of my dad because I could see that the way that he treated my mom and the way that he

abused her like a lot of the times it was in front of us and another time it'd be behind their door and just hear my mom crying. Yeah. And like horrible noises. I was yeah, I grew up pretty scared of him and I think it was because of the way that I saw him like treat my mom and physically abuse her. And even though I kind of knew that he wouldn't ever physically abuse us, it was. was still a scary thing to see. So I think that, like, having that in the back of my mind also kind of made me try not to step out of all of the rules that he kind of had set in place for me. And I always felt like this weird need to, like, protect my mom, even though I was, like,

just a kid and couldn't do anything about it. But I always had this desire to make sure that she was okay. and then consequently always kind of felt guilty whenever she wasn't. But, I mean, that's a very big burden for a child. Yeah. So because of that, feeling of like always wanting to protect her, I always wanted to know, like, what was going on in the house. And I always wanted to know, like, exactly what they were arguing about. And I think back then it was because I wanted to know, like, maybe how I could, like, help resolve their issue.

or like just like some way I could like protect her like I thought maybe any bit of information could be like used towards my advantage right in that way and um I was the only one like out of me and my brothers I was the only one who was like an active listener of the arguments like I wanted to hear everything even though it was like a lot of the times about the same thing like over and over I just wanted to hear everything yeah so I was always listening to what was going on and then brothers were always like as soon as the fighting started almost instantly they would be in their rooms like with the music on tuning it out tuning it out completely yeah they didn't want anything regarding it so that's how I was like kind of different from my siblings and I guess like all of this

to say that even though my sheltered life had begun because of my dad and because I was so paranoid I kind of like ended up sheltering myself in a way because I wanted to make sure that I knew what was going on like with my mom and I always wanted to be at home and I didn't want to leave for those reasons. So since I was at home a lot, it was also around the time that like the internet became a thing in many households. I was like around 10 or so when when we got like our first computer and we had it was just like on the main level of my house and my childhood house is the same one that my mom still owns to this day. But basically it's like an open concept, like Italian build. So there's like no rooms kind of. Like everything is kind of like you have to

walk around in a circle and to like get to all the rooms. So what I'm trying to say is like our computer was kind of just out in the open. Like people were constantly walking behind it in order to get to like the other side of the house. So there wasn't like much privacy when using the computer. But yeah, like on our bright side are like one of the first games that me and my brothers ever played was neopets. Do you know what that is? Yeah, I remember. Yeah, so we used to play neopets. We loved that game so much.

And all of us actually became like really obsessed with using the computer. Like we needed to touch grass. But we would all like take turns like with the computer and my mom would set like, okay, you can. an hour between this time and this time. You get an hour between this time and this time. And we would get so mad at each other if we were like one minute past our time. It was like chaotic. You feel like that's how it is with siblings too. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. It's like so many of my sibling fights were just because my brother was on the computer for two extra minutes. Right. It's like so stupid. It happens. Yeah. So I would say that like my first ever encounter with like

internet related victimization was when I was only 11. So since like me and my brothers were always like showing each other like different games and like fun stuff to do on our computer, one of those games was like a computer version of dance dance revolution like that arcade game. But I just used like the arrow keys to like dance to the music. So we loved that game and we were obsessed with it. And we would all like take turns playing it. see who could get the high scores. So like one day when I was just playing just like by myself, I scrolled down like on the page and I noticed that there was like a chat box.

And it was the first time I'd ever seen a chat box before. And I was like mesmerized because it was so cool to me. Right. Just like all. And what? It was just part of like the website. Yeah. It was part of the website.

It was just like underneath the game. Got it. Yeah. So it was like so fascinating because it was like all these people just like. saying things. And at first I didn't really understand what it was. Yeah. And I feel like everybody is a kid, whether, like, I mean, I remember being on webkins and all those different sites and just randomly chatting with people and it was like the coolest thing. Yeah. And then I noticed that like the people weren't even talking about the game at all. They were just like talking about random stuff.

So I decided to like test it out and I wrote like, hi. And then like people were responding to me. And I was like, okay, this is cool. So I like. like continued chatting on there. And then, um, I think like eventually like a handful of people on there at different times had asked me like, do you have an MSN account? Because they wanted to like bring it to MSN. But I didn't have it. Like I didn't have MSN because I wasn't allowed to have it. Um, my older brothers had an account. And I think it was because like they're a bit older, but also because like they're boys. And just like so many things growing up like I didn't get it, my brothers did.

Yeah. But anyways, yeah. So I didn't have one then and I knew that I wasn't allowed to have one. But I decided to create one. And then I just like added all the people who asked if I had one. And then at this point, this is when I started to become like really secretive about what I was doing on the computer. Because it was like the first time I was doing something I knew that I wasn't allowed to do. And that was like kind of a crappy part because that kind of marked like me being secret

or having a need to like not share things with my parents for like my whole life. Yeah. Like from that point till now, like there's so many things I've never told my parents. And I think it just stemmed from like knowing that I was doing something wrong and then feeling a need to hide it. I think too if you know that you're going to get in trouble for something, you're not going to want to talk about it. Or like if there's going to be an unwanted opinion and you already know that the opinion isn't going to be something that you want to hear, you're just going to want to keep it to yourself. Yeah. For like a few weeks, I would continue to talk to like these random people on MSN and I'm pretty sure they were all older than me and they were all like talking about weird stuff that I had no idea what the words you. meant, but now I know what those words mean. And I'm like, those are definitely not words appropriate

for like a 10 year old or I guess 11. But yeah, whenever someone would like come around the computer since, yeah, like it was an open concept house, I would just like minimize it and then bring up a different game like Barbie dress up. Yeah, which I also, yeah, I also did use to play those games, but I was like, this is way more interesting than that, to be honest. So one person in specific, I was talking to, he asked me how old I was. And I completely lied. And I was like, I'm 17. And he asked me to, like, send him nudes.

But I knew at that point, like, there was no way that I was going to do that. Like, I wasn't even viewing my body in that way. Right. And I barely even knew what sex was. Yeah. So. Because you're so young, like. Yeah.

What does there, like, even see? But okay. Yeah. And I remember, like, thinking about. it for a bit like how can I do that yeah I'm like we have like this ghetto like super old camera well at the time it wasn't right but I'm like how can I like it's like our family's like digital camera yeah it's like how can I even do that and I wasn't going to do it but I was like it puts the thought in your head so like you obviously anybody like especially a child once you hear even like

hearing certain words it's the wheels are going to start spinning yeah yeah so was like visualizing it and I was like I can't I can't even do that right but yeah like at the same time I also just like thought it was really really weird and made me really nervous because like no one had ever just like the first time anyone had ever like sexualized me I guess if you want to call it that so anyways I always declined thankfully and then so he just resorted to asking me to find him like nude pictures of other people and send them to him so is he not at Google yeah Like that's something I didn't really get, but like at the time, I didn't question it. Right.

Yeah. Plus, once again, how would you really know any better? You were so young. Yeah. Yeah. I was like wondering that too. Like when I was reviewing this story like nowadays. Right.

It's like that didn't make much sense. That guy was like old enough to do that himself. Yeah. But anyways, I decided to like do that for him. And while I was doing that, like I felt so weird. and I just remember like shaking the whole time knowing that like I'm not doing something I'm supposed to be doing. Again, like I wasn't viewing anyone like in a sexual way. I wasn't like at that age where like I even understood what it was.

So I just remember like being on Google and typing in like girl with big boobs. And then like being so scared that someone would like come into the room. I must have like planned it out at like a perfect time when like no one was. inside the house or something and i was like so scared but i ended up um sending like maybe three to four like pictures of random women on the internet so i think he was like satisfied with that but like looking back on it i think that he probably knew that i wasn't a 17 year old right because i wasn't really acting like a 17 year old which is kind of weird because just like kind of predatory and 17 is still under age.

Exactly. Yeah. I would say like the weirdest kind of most disturbing thing that would happen is that he would like randomly turn on his webcam. And I don't think there was like any way to like accept or decline if someone like opens their webcam on MSN back then. I don't even know because I don't even use MSN to this day. Yeah.

But anyways, he would like go on there and then like just whip it out. Really? Did you ever see his face? I did. And he looked older? Yeah. Okay. He looked like maybe like 22 to like 26.

Okay. So he would just put his webcam on and take his dick out. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I'm Anna Garcia, host of True Crime News, the podcast. Every week we bring you in-depth coverage on cases making headlines as well as those that go under the radar. Tune in for murders that defy explanation, mystery seeking exploration, and shocking secrets that will leave you breathless.

Each week we honor the victims by going beyond the salacious in our search for justice. Crime never stops and neither do we. Listen to true crime news available now wherever you get your podcast. That was really disturbing for me. I don't even know if I'd ever seen one before that. Right, probably not. Yeah. Yeah.

And I just remember like typing like that's so gross. You're so weird. That's so gross. Ew. And then he would just like smile on camera. And it was really unnerving. Yeah. And a few times I just, like, exited out of the chat because, like, I was disturbed and also, like, I didn't want my family to come and see that.

Oh, God. Yeah. So, yeah, that was, that was just disturbing. And it's, like, burned in my memory. Oh, I'm sure. You're so young. Yeah. Yeah.

So one day, I was, like, playing outside with my neighborhood friends because I was, like, allowed to go to the their house. I was friends with them for a really long time, but they only lived like five houses down the street. And all of a sudden, like, my friend's mom is like, hey, like, um, your parents call and they want you to go home. And I thought that was really weird because I'd only been there for like maybe an hour or two and usually used to spend like the whole evening there and come back, maybe like around dinnertime or something like that. So yeah, I found that weird. I kind of had like a feeling and also my like little brother he's like two years younger would always hang out with me at their house but they only wanted me to come home oh gosh yeah so I was a little nervous and I might

have taken a bit longer to walk home that day they brought me over to the computer sat me down and they were like can you explain why we found these on our internet browsing history and it was like the pictures that I sent and seeing them again like it was like such an overwhelming feeling of like dread and like embarrassment and it was it was just horrible and they said that they already like asked my older brothers about it um which because i guess you would like assume because my older brothers were like kind of preteens teenagers it's like something that they might have done but they like denied it and I guess they believed they believed them so it was me it was me so at first i like didn't want to explain like anything whenever i got in

trouble as a kid i was always silent yeah until they would like pry it out of me and then i just remember like breaking down crying and um i didn't really know like what to say but all i knew was that i had to like make something up right because then it's like if you tell them the truth it's like so much worse in the pictures yeah so i ended up up telling them like semi-truth but not everything. So I told them that like someone on the internet asked me to send those pictures, which was true. And then they asked me like, oh, well, where do you like know this person from? And I lied saying that. It was like one of my older friends' cousins. Okay. Because I did have like an older friend who was like actually a friend of one of my older brothers,

but she really liked me and like she was kind of like I kind of looked up to her a little bit but I used her in this situation yeah they wanted me to call her oh god and I was like so scared so I called back then everyone just had like landlines like no cell phones stuff like that so I called like her house phone and like with every ring my heart was like beating faster and then like someone answered and it was her mom and I was like hi like is so-and-so there I was so nervous my voice was so quiet and she was like oh no she's not home she just went out and I was so relieved I was like oh my god so yeah so I hung up the phone and I told my parents like yeah no she's she's not home and um they kind of just they kind of

just were like okay with that I guess that was kind of like and then did they just let it go They did, which was like kind of weird. Yeah. I got grounded for like the rest of the day. Yeah. And I wasn't allowed to go back to my friend's house. And it's the only time I've actually ever been grounded in my life. And I'm sure they said like gave you the whole spiel of like, don't do that again.

Lo-la, right? I think so. Yeah, I believe they did. But like the weird thing about it was like they weren't really mad. Okay. And the reason I say it's weird is because like in in the future, like after this happened in like other parts of my life, like other things like gotten trouble for, like not related to this story, I got like in super trouble. Yeah.

For stuff that like wasn't even necessarily all in my control before. My parents just like weren't too happy about it, but I didn't really get in trouble, like I said. And all I did was like end up deleting MSN and never downloading it ever again. So about a year later, I was 12. And I was like still doing stuff that I wasn't supposed to be doing on the internet. Like teenage kids do? Young kids do.

I was doing bad stuff too. Yeah. Probably. Yeah. So I saw an ad for like this online metaverse game called IMVU. Oh, I remember that. Yeah. Did you use to play it?

I did. Yeah. That one's worse. Isn't that one bad? Isn't that like where they like look very realistic? Yeah. Okay. Like the avatars and stuff like look kind of like realistic.

Yes. Yeah. So I guess I'll just explain it first. Okay, yeah, sure, go ahead. For the audience anyways, even though you seem familiar. I was on there. Yeah, so I'm VU, like, I know, from what I know from other people that were on it, because I didn't actually know anyone else in real life who was on it.

But just like from what I know from the internet is like tons of people got groomed on there and it was just like not a great place. No, it was very sexual. Yeah, very sexual. And I think even the game, it's out like even just being on there, I feel like all the girl avatars had big fake boobs and yeah yeah well yeah you could just like modify them to like however yeah however you dream and that had a chat too yeah right okay yeah it was mostly like a chatting like virtual universe software game it's a metaverse yeah but anyways side note is i did end up

playing this game on and off between the ages of 12 and 18 okay so a long span of time. So what I like found the most interesting about the game at first was like just like the dressing up of the avatar like situation because I was like so interested in like dress up games and in fashion design as well. And I'm a creative person. So I was like, this is such a cool. Like outlet. It's like different than just like drawing like a dress that you think of or something or like putting together an outfit in your head because you could visualize it and kind of like put it together on the computer. So I found that like really interesting. And it wasn't like until a little bit later that I realized you could chat with people because I wasn't doing that at first. All I was doing

was like dressing up and down my character and kind of just like checking out like the virtual worlds and there was like a lot to explore because there was like a virtual universe for almost anything you could think of like a beach house or like a little town in Tokyo or like yeah just like there was so many things to explore so when I realized that you could chat with people I got like so excited yeah here we go again round two yeah because I was like still so fascinated with it and like I wasn't done with it it just like got ripped out of my hands when I was like on MSN. So I was like,

it kind of probably filled in that social gap for you. It did for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't really think of it that way, but that completely makes sense. Yeah. Yeah.

So my first experience with like online dating, I guess you would call it, is when I was like 13 or 14. I ended up meeting this person on IMVU. And his name is Andy. So I got along with him. quite a lot. Like we had a lot in common and he was like a pretty good guy and this isn't the person that catfished me like this person was like a real a real person and we ended up like mostly talking

on Facebook Messenger. Like we kind of transitioned out of the game anyways. And then you were able to see like what he looked like and were you guys the same age? Yeah he was only like a year older than me. Okay. Yeah. And yeah. So he lived in Chicago. His parents knew about me and his mom was like like actually trying to like help us meet which was like pretty cute but my parents had no idea who he was right they didn't even know that I was like playing this game ever so through the all the years that you played this game yeah yeah keep it secret the whole time yeah okay wow yeah the whole time good job they probably like saw the screen a few times but I don't know what they thought of it yeah so my parents had like no idea who he was a part of like uh me randomly

saying one day, like, I want to travel to Chicago. And all they said in response is like, that place is so dangerous. But like, Canadians think everywhere is dangerous. Yeah. That's funny. Yeah. But they didn't really like question my desire to go there at all. But yeah, they didn't. Just random. Yeah. He was like a great person and I'm still like friends with him on Facebook. Yeah. But we don't really like talk really much. But I do see like what he's doing every now and then. Yeah. Which was like kind of cool. school. Yeah, but I ended up, like, breaking up with him, uh, because I was, I started seeing someone in my real life high school. And, uh, that was when I entered high school in grade 10. It's like 10 to 12

in Canada and most provinces. So yeah, I just decided to like break it off because even though it was like an online thing, I was like, I still considered it cheating to like want to see someone in person. Yeah. So then the boyfriend I had in grade 10, Stephen, he was also a secret from parents and I was always paranoid of like getting caught with him like the odds are like so low but whenever we were like outside waiting for the bus I was like my dad's going to drive by he's going to see me with you like my life is going to end like I was so paranoid all the time and then he spread rumors about me love that they weren't like crazy rumors but they were just not true Like he just kind of said to like his friend group and anyone he could that we had like done sexual stuff when we didn't do anything at all

Like no form of sex And how old were you at this point? I was in grade 10 so I think like 16. Okay Like 15 or 16. Yeah I guess 15 because when I got I got my laptop for my 16th birthday. Okay. And that is like a big part of the story.

So yeah, I got my laptop for my 16th birthday. And then that following summer, between grade 10 and 11, I was, like, super active on IVU. Now you had your privacy. Yeah, exactly. And how were things with your parents at this time? Were they any better, like at home? No. All pretty much the same.

Yeah. Okay. For, like, my whole childhood and teenagehood. Yeah. They were fighting, like, through the whole thing. And then they didn't get divorced. until like a bit later. Okay.

So, yeah, nothing had changed. Because I had like my own laptop now. I was like in my room doing my thing. And I used to like stay up super early. Yeah. Until like four or five a year. I would do that on Sims all the time. Yeah.

I still do that on Sims sometime. So fun. That was like the best. Yeah. Sims is like that weird addiction where I play for like a month and then I just don't look at it for like seven months. Then you're back again. Yeah.

I would like stay up until like four or five a.m. chatting with like all my cool friends on I of you. And it wasn't all bad because like I'm still friends with some of them to this day. Yeah. From like all across the world, it's cool. It is cool. And like we're friends on Facebook and stuff. And like, yeah. So I did make some really cool connections on there.

My parents still had no idea I was playing this game. And amongst like some of those people that I met, I guess you can call it like a friend group. was this one girl Emily so it wasn't until like a couple days of chatting that she told me that she had a brother who also played the game so her brother ended up joining us in like the virtual chat room after like a couple days

and his name was Ryan they said that their names were Emily and Ryan Nelson and Emily was only like a year older than I was and she was about to enter her senior year and Ryan was 23 and he was in university and they said that they lived in Minnesota. Emily and I became like really good friends and we would chat almost every single day. Yeah, it was kind of like I had a best friend in real life and then I also had a best friend in the virtual world.

So it was, I felt like supported. Like she was like an actual friend and in a way I kind of felt like in a weird way. It was kind of like a journal if that makes sense because I am. like typing everything out that's like happening to me and putting it somewhere it's just not in a book it's like to a person on the internet right and it was kind of special in that way and then Ryan her brother and I were talking as well and um after about a month of like talking online we started like dating and it did like feel like a really real relationship even though it was like all online and I had already experienced an online relationship with

the other guy Andy like before I got my boyfriend in grade 10 and when you started dating this Ryan right yeah yeah did he have a Facebook like or anything like that yeah so um so he looked real like he thought he was real yeah okay yeah so they both like sent me um like links to their Facebook profiles okay both Emily and Ryan did. And they had matching last names on there. So they seemed like they were siblings. And I can't remember if I had them added. I think I did add them as friends because I feel like why wouldn't I?

Right. I feel like I did. But yeah, just like a bit more about like the relationship we had. It's like so corny and stupid. But do you remember Tumblr? Yeah. So I had like a Tumblr page dedicated just to like our relationship. But I would like post quotes on there that like reminded me of him and like even like log some of our chats like sections of our chats that I thought were like cute.

And thankfully I dated everything on there. So like when I was going back and like doing research for this, I was like thank you for dating these. Yeah. Because I know like exactly what the timeline is of this. I really believe it to be a real relationship. And that lasted. In total, we were together for like a year, a year and a month. Yeah.

But I'll get to why it ended. So, yeah, you were asking about their Facebooks, and they did have Facebook profiles. And one of the weird things about the Facebooks, like the pictures they had, they all seem to be taken with, like, a professional camera. And like back then, like, iPhones weren't really able to take, like, that grade of pictures. They're still pretty good, but like not, like you can tell when it's like a DSLR or like an iPhone camera. And did you guys ever talk on the phone or anything? No.

Okay. So it's all just over Facebook Messenger? All on IMVU. Okay. Yeah. Oh, even the relationship. Yeah. Got it.

Yeah. Facebook Messenger was with the other guy. Okay. Got it. Yeah. So would you guys be able to have like private chat rooms? Yeah. Okay.

I didn't remember that part. I don't remember. Yeah. So we were mostly just in a private chat room. Got it. But you can have like separate or like multiple windows so you can be in like multiple places at once if you wanted. So I could have been like hanging out with my friends in like one tab and then like with him in another tab. Got it.

Okay. Yeah. So with the other like weird thing about their pictures is like, well I don't know if like other people would find it weird. But they were always in like formal wear and always like it seemed like an event like a graduation or. a wedding or like something like that um they just like the pictures didn't seem very casual okay like very like no selfies like nothing like you would normally find on a facebook profile i guess and they were always in like big groups of people and like i got from that that they were like very family oriented and the other weird thing is i never saw any pictures of ryan and emily together in like the same

picture, which like, I know some people don't really like their siblings much, but I feel like... I mean, especially if they're group photos, you would think. Yeah, exactly. And they seem to like each other a lot. So I found that kind of odd that there was no pictures of them together. But I didn't really think of much of it at that time. And they also described their lives as like fairly wealthy. And they said that like their first cars were Jaguars, just like a pretty good. And just like a crazy first car. And they said they lived in a mansion and I did see like a really big house in the background of some of the pictures. So I think that was probably legit. So the other like weird thing about the Facebook profiles was like the interactions with like the network of people they had was just like

really off. I guess to say that like it was kind of generic. Like the like the responses or like the comments on the pictures didn't really seem natural. And they were from like other people's profiles and those people only had like a few pictures as like when you click on someone's profile picture and you can see like how many pictures they had before there was only like maybe like four or five or like two and then they're like the networks of those people are really small and I was like this is kind of like not not feeling legit yeah yeah and the way that like the comments were structured from multiple different people was like they all kind of seemed kind of like similar like typed it like similarly like there was no personality behind the way that something was typed

if that makes sense yeah like you can tell it some people always miss spell a certain word right like oh that's just george he doesn't know how to spell that word or like you know some people use like all lowercases or whatever but all the comments were like the same format it was weird but yeah back then like i i think that i thought something of it but i just like didn't like i was kind of semi yeah yeah semi yeah semi-sum on like in denial at that point. I was like, I don't know. It's just maybe they just don't use Facebook a lot. Maybe like their whole network just doesn't use Facebook a lot. It's very unrealistic. So I had spoken about meeting Ryan like once I turned 18. But at the time I was only 16.

And since I was like so heavily sheltered, I think I held on to like the fact that when I turn 18, everything will change, like so hard. Even though that's like totally never the case, it's like it doesn't matter if you like suddenly become an adult. Like nothing really changes. Super embarrassing. But I knew that like back then when I was like 16, I knew right away like what I wanted to do in university.

And that was like to be a graphic designer, which I'm now. I even got in touch with like the faculty of design at the school that was in Minnesota to ask about like international pre-requirements. So embarrassing. But yeah, like I just like saw a future. I was just like, I just like held on. I just knew at that point that I wanted to be with him. So dearly. And I also like felt I felt like a sense of security in high school, like because I was in a relationship with him. Because I know that like not many people my age could relate to that. Yeah. It's like people were always like getting their heartbroken or getting cheated on or like whatever else high school relationship drama. Yeah. And I felt like I never really had to deal with that. And I felt like very secure because it was like all these girls are out there like trying to get their boyfriend and I just go home and my boyfriend's there every day. And I feel confident about that. And yeah. So I had like this this like weird sense of security in that way. And I also just will just. just like wasn't really interested if like anyone was trying to like flirt with me in high school

I was like I have a boyfriend and also like since my ex did like spread those rumors about me I just like felt comfortable knowing that like well my boyfriend doesn't go to the school so he would never know about that and he would also not be able to spread rumors about me either if something went wrong yeah so it had been like approaching almost a year yeah and Ryan had mentioned, like, just at this time, which is kind of weird. But he mentioned it at this time that his best friend was, like, apparently a micro celebrity who, like, played for the NHL. And I can't mention who it is because it's a real person. Okay.

So in the immediate moment, I didn't do anything, like, with that information. I just, like, didn't care about sports at all. but also like I just didn't do anything with it I guess at that time about like a week or two later I decided to like look up who this micro celebrity was because I just something reminded me of it I know that my best friend at the time like was into hockey and stuff and maybe like just like seeing his team come up I was like oh I should like look up if this person is actually real right so I did find this guy's Facebook profile the NHL play player and everything was legit. It looked like a super legit profile. Tons of friends because when you're a microcelebrity, you have tons of connections. And I saw from his activity because I wasn't, I didn't add him or anything like that, but I could still see like some of his activity. He liked or commented on a picture. I can't remember exactly what it was. But it was posted by a girl who had the same last name as him. So then I kind of like put two and two together and ended up realizing that that girl

was his sister. Okay. The NHL player's sister. And the post was about four months old. But in the picture, it was her. And do you want to guess who? Ryan? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. They were together as a couple. And the caption said something. Wait, so the player was with this girl. No. Ryan was with the player sister. Yes. And the reason I saw it on his profile was because he liked it or something. So it showed up on there. Got it. Yeah. And they were posing his girlfriend, boyfriend. Yes. Okay. And the caption said something along the lines of like happy three years. Oh. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So my heart sank.

I was like, I just didn't know what to think at all. And before I could even process that I was being cheated on, a new thing immediately came up that it was like the person tagged wasn't Ryan Nelson. But that was Ryan Nelson in the picture as I knew him to be. So I was like... So it was a different name. Yeah. I was so confused.

It was a different name. So basically he gave himself away by just telling you that he was friends with this hockey player. Yeah. Wow. What an idiot. Okay. Yeah, I know, right? It's like why would, like...

And what are the odds that you like subbed across those things? Like, that's nuts. Yeah. I mean, he let it go for like a year. Yeah. And he was like, by the way, my best friend's a microcelebrity. You might know who it is. Okay.

It's like, yeah. I didn't know who it was, but that person's easy to find. Yeah. So your heart sank. So my heart sank completely because, like, one, I was cheated on and two, like, who, who is that person? And the person was tagged, like, still not a real name, but it was like instead of, like, Ryan Nelson, it was like, Noah, like, different last name.

Okay. So I was, like, incomplete denial. I just remember being like, no, like this is not possible. Like this person is named Ryan, not Noah. And I was like, this is so weird. So I went to like his profile, his real Facebook profile. And the cover photo was like some people playing football. And since I like refused to believe that his name wasn't Ryan,

I was just like no that's like he's probably just like changing his name to like someone he looks up to who like plays football or something because he had like football players in his cover photo like turns out that that was just like him playing college football so I wasn't able to like confront either Emily or Ryan that night because they were already offline we would usually chat from like since they're uh they had they were like two hours ahead of my time zone so um they were already online whenever i got home from school and then i would have to like say good night to them like a couple hours earlier yeah on my side so yeah they were already gone couldn't confront them so i'm not sure i like i didn't know like what what hurt me more in that situation because it's just

like so much like two things yeah so much process yeah yeah like what do you think of first what do you process first right anyways i decided to like take a bit more of a look at his like real profile and i didn't want to believe it but everything seemed real on there like the connection seemed real the amount of friends the interactions the photos there was actually selfies and yeah there was like some pictures that i'd seen already from like the fake profile so yeah it was the summer at this point and I like wasn't able to confront him like I said um and uh I was working a summer job at a daycare and I was like the cook there for like a hundred kids but I remember that I could like barely keep it together and I wanted to cry at like every moment and I like I just like

I could barely work um which was really hard because my job was like super fast paced and um There's no room for heartache there. So I remember, like, texting my bestie. And I was, like, waiting for her response throughout the day. And that was stressing me out, too, because it was just, like, no one was supporting me at that point yet. Because I was, like, the minutes that she didn't reply to me felt like hours. And I was like, I just need, I just need someone to know, like, what's going on with me right now. Because I couldn't, like, tell anyone.

It's such, like, a unique and, like, complex weird situation that it's like, oh, yeah, by the way, like, all this. stuff now like feel bad for me did you get any information during this time about the sister no so do you okay is that going to come um like was her profile real i have no idea okay it's still kind of like a mystery got it okay yeah um but like do you think that he was talking as a sister and himself or do you think that they were two separate people um i think like I did end up thinking that it was one person with both profiles and like two different computers. Okay. So I ended up thinking about like a month or two after everything happened.

And then that's just kind of what I believed ever since then. Because like one of the reasons why is like you could see whenever someone's typing and I never saw them typing at the same time. Okay. And they also typed very similarly. They had like almost the same mannerisms. And it almost just felt like if you didn't see their screen name or their avatar, you'd be like, you wouldn't know. Okay. Like which one you're talking to because that's how similar they were.

Yeah. My best friend did end up responding and that was in the middle of my day. And that was like I was washing dishes at that point. And I just remember like leaving all them there and going to the break room and just like crying, sobbing and praying that no one else was in there. because I was like, I can't explain this. Like, I can't, I just can't explain this. And also my mom worked there. And your parents didn't know anything at this time.

They didn't know. Still didn't know. So yeah, I made it through my day somehow. I don't remember how. It was just a blur. But that night, I confronted him. Well, I ended up being, like, I confronted both of them, but him versed. So all I did was like, when?

he got online was we went in the chat room and I sent him the face just the Facebook link to the picture of him and the girl. And I also asked him why his name was different than what he told me. And he didn't reply right away. And I could, I kept seeing him type and then it go away. And we can just call the girl in the picture Ashley. So he said, oh, that's It's just Ashley. She's my ex. We've been like on and off, but we've never been like truly together, which is like such a weird thing to say. And I didn't believe that like at all because like there were tons of like comments on that picture that were like, oh, congratulations. And all those people seemed like in support of this relationship. So how could it have not been like a real

relationship? Yeah. Also three years is a long time to be on and off with the same person. Yeah. So I did like stand up for myself and I was like, no, you cheated on me. And I don't exactly like remember. I think like I said, no, you cheated on me. And then I think I just like left the chat or something because I was just like so overwhelmed. During your relationship with him, did he ever ask you for like anything sexual or was it all kind of just like emotional conversation type thing? Um, I know that like parts of it were sexual. Okay. Um, I can't like remember if he asked for pictures ever. But like at that age, like before I saw him and stuff like that, I like was doing stuff like that. Okay. You know, so like it wouldn't have been like weird.

Right. Like so that's why I don't really exactly remember if. Yeah. I did. But I do know for a fact that like we would sext. Okay. So. there was at least that.

Yeah. And I was still like underage at that time too. Yeah. So. I feel like who hasn't done that. Not that it's right, but you know. Yeah. But I mean that he was like older.

Yeah. So it's like weird. Do you, did you find out how old he was? Um. Or was his age real? So it's still like really hard to know exactly. Okay.

Everything. But the age that he told me he was like 23. Got it. And I was like 16, 17. Okay. But anyways, so yeah, I didn't believe that at all about like the whole girlfriend, not being a girlfriend thing. And then I think he, like I ended up, we ended up coming back to chat again. And he told me that he just didn't want to use his real identity because he was scared of sharing information with strangers on the internet, which is like very ironic.

And I think I just like somehow forgave him. I don't know. And I told them like, oh, everything is okay. And I'll just call you by your real name. And I'll call you Noah now. And we just kind of like resolved that conversation and we got offline. But we were still technically like together. So then his sister got online like a bit later.

And I confronted her and she basically just said the same thing. was like, she said like, well, him and her, they weren't actually dating and like the reason that they changed their identity. So I guess she, that wasn't her real name, Emily. They said that the reason they changed their identity was just to like protect themselves. And then from then on, like I still did talk to both of them and stuff, but it was only for like, I don't know, not very long every day. Whereas before it was like from when I got home to like almost when I went to bed.

Like, it was constant before. For a month, I still spoke with, like, both of them, and it was really hard to adjust calling Ryan Noah. And it was really weird because for this whole time, you call someone one name and then all of a sudden you have to start calling them a different name. It just, like, wasn't a good feeling. So we just decided to, like, break up. And that was, yeah, only a month.

Well, that's still a long time. But it was a month. of me calling him Noah when we decided to like break up. And I held on to my friendship with Emily, like even stronger because I thought that like, well, if he can't really give me like what I want, then like she can because like that's his sister. And so I kind of like was friends with her trying to get answers. And she never really had much to say.

I think it made her really uncomfortable like the whole thing. So she started to like come online less and less. And Noah was still online like sporadically. Eventually Emily was just like gone for a really long period of time. And Noah told me it was just because she was busy because she just started university. I think it's because they got caught. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, yeah. Like if you got caught, it would be super awkward just coming back. Yeah. Even though they did for like a month. I didn't know that like the last time I talked to them was going to. to be the last time. And they just, what, disappeared? Yeah, they just disappeared off the face of the internet. And both of them were just gone. Yeah. That was definitely one person. I think so. I think so. I think so. Um, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I still, like, to this day, like, that's basically

the end of the story, but I still have no idea, like, who it was. Did you ever do more research or you just dropped it? Uh, At the time I was like very, um, triggered. You know, I just wanted to like be a part of the, like apart from the whole situation. So when you, when it ended, how old were you? 17. Okay. And then after it ended, after they disappeared, you just kind of swept it under the rug and.

I didn't. I thought it was such a weird thing that happened that I just would rather not know that it even existed. And did you give your friend, any of your friends like the full rundown of it? Yeah, my one friend Danny. And what did she say? At the time, I don't really know, honestly. I don't really remember. I think like she also like didn't know what was going on.

Okay. But she has theories that she came up with recently. What are hers? I'm curious. She thinks that they were the same person, but she thinks that it was actually Emily who like had a crush on me as a girl but wanted to do it through like a guy profile. Okay. I'm curious. I almost want like the audience to make their theories because I feel like you could make so many different theories from that, like from this. That's what I was thinking. Um, I mean, when I was like doing research for this, like I had put this away for like 10 years. Yeah. And then resurfacing everything was like, oh my God. Like thinking of this person makes me feel so weird. Right. Well, it's it's sad too because you grew up and like I'm happy that you kind of added your background of your childhood because you. You're, you're

you grew up where you were sheltered and I feel like you relied on these online relationships as your social life. And you did kind of have like these multiple different dating experiences and what they meant to you were it meant a lot to you. Like they were very real and very serious to you. Yeah. And, you know, whereas to some people that might start dating right off the bat like in real life and have very different experiences, they might not agree that this was as serious.

but to you it was. And that's kind of, I don't want to say all you knew, but like a big part of the dating world that you knew. Yeah. So it's sad that people kind of go on these sites. I feel like in a mess with people's emotions, thinking, oh, it's just online, like it's no big deal. But like to you, it was a very long time.

It was a year relationship that you had. And then to find out that the person isn't even that person, it's sad. That's horrible. Yeah. Because think about it, even if it was like a, like you said, like a friend, like with the sister, with the Emily girl, it's like you form this friendship with someone, even if it is online and then it's just taken away from you and it's gone.

You're like, what the fuck just happened? Yeah. Like she was kind of like my best friend. Yeah. And he was like my boyfriend and then they were both just gone. Right. But yeah, it is like something serious to me because since I was so sheltered, it's like I did seek relationships and friendships from the only way that I kind of could.

And I feel like that was kind of your escape, like going on those like websites and chatting with people. That was kind of your like your reality. Yeah. And having a real life boyfriend was so stressful for me. Yeah. Because I wasn't allowed to date. Right. So like I'd rather like that was like the easiest way to have a boyfriend.

Yeah. And to have that connection. It was online. Yeah. Jeez. No. Yeah. So.

So you brushed it under the rug and then when you were kind of when you decided to come on here. Yeah. And you were gaining, like, gathering more information. Was there anything else that came up or still nothing? Um, still nothing because I still like don't know this person's true identity. Like the only thing I know is like the real like kind of profile that I saw. Is that, are the Facebook still there? Um.

Or you didn't check? They're not there. Jeez. Yeah, I checked. Okay. That's wild. Yeah. It is.

It's pretty wild. Right. And like I said, what stands out to me the most is that for you, it was something like, it was important to you. Yeah. And then for them, it's like, I mean, who knows what they thought? I mean, like, granted, yes, they were talking to every day as well. I'm sure it held some sort of like meaning to them.

But clearly not as much if they could just, oh, I was caught. See ya. On to the next. Yeah. And like if it was, I don't know if it like was this person or not. but if it was that person who, like, lived a very social, wealthy life, like, they didn't need to have a girlfriend online. Right. But for me, it was important.

Yeah. So. And I think, honestly, for them, in my opinion, whether, let's say it was more simple. And it was the simple fact of, let's say it was a million names confused here. But let's say Ryan just, it was really the Ryan guy. Yeah. And he had a girlfriend in three years. And his, he wasn't happy in his relationship.

and he was just wanted a side girlfriend online. Yeah. Even that, you know, it's like, clearly if that was the case, he was lacking something in his real life and in his real relationship in person that he felt like he wanted something online as well. Mm-hmm. But even then, it's still hurting the person that he's, you know, because you didn't know anything.

You didn't even know his name. No, yeah. And he knew everything real about me. That is crazy. Yeah. And it's crazier that you don't even, like, you still don't have the answer. Does it ever bother you? Are you just trying to think about it?

It bothers me. And like it was just like when I was doing research for this and trying to remember everything, I was really contemplating like, should I reach out to the person I think it is? But then I'm like, that's so weird. Yeah. Because like what if it's just like an innocent dude? Right. Right.

That doesn't even. Yeah. Interesting. And then he like, I don't know. If it wasn't him or if it was him, they could block me and I still wouldn't know. Yeah, that's true. And then have you, like, did you date after that, like soon after that or no? Or did you kind of take a break to yourself for a little while? I did date, maybe like within a year.

Was it online or? No, it was, I didn't do any more online dating. Okay, so you're done with that. Yeah. I don't blame you. Okay. Well. And at that point, like, my dad wasn't in my life anymore. So it was like, whatever, I'm just going to have a boyfriend. Did you ever tell your mom or anything about the story?

honestly like I think that I did okay but yeah because my mom was like the one who was like accepting of a lot of stuff even though she thought it was weird and like didn't want me to do a lot of stuff just like here of my dad and I mean it really is scary like I feel like this even kind of goes to show how south things can go um like luckily you were safe and everything was fine but there are so many people that get innocently get into these online relationships or even meet people online as friends to just, there's so many people that seek community online and on these different chats and games and websites, which is normal. Like if they don't have that in real life, why not be able to get that online?

But it's scary because you don't know who's sitting behind the computer screen on the other end. And I feel like it's so easy to make fake profiles and even make fake emails and all this stuff. And we learn that at such a young age to just create this fake. identity to pose as something or someone else. And it's scary because you don't know if this person could hurt you or just lie to you and, you know, feed you anything. I mean, like, think about it too.

There's young kids that get groomed online all the time. And it's just, it's sad and it's scary and it could lead to so much worse. So I feel like even your story, you know, proves as a good, I guess, like, safety measure as well. Because, I mean, when you're young, you want, you. want to be naive, you don't want to believe, and you want to be in denial of anything that you find that you're, that isn't what you want it to be. You know what I mean?

Like, obviously at that age, you wanted it to be fine and perfect and not believe that this is just all a lie. Yeah. Because that sucks. Yeah. That's nuts. Yeah. And like, also like I was, I was thinking like, it was weird because it's like in this day and age, I feel like kids are smarter.

Like they would be like, hey, let's FaceTime. Or like, I just feel like they wouldn't just go along with it. But at the same time, like, kids these age have a lot more access to, like, social networks. I think it depends too. I think some kids would say, yeah, let's FaceTime. But then I do think that if someone is more sheltered and more innocent, they might not be as, what's the word I'm looking for? Not demanding. but like they might not be as like outspoken to say oh like I want to see you let's face time

yeah someone might just want to talk to somebody and they might kind of just go with whatever that person says yeah because if you think about it in a situation like that where somebody is craving that relationship so bad even if it's just a friendship they're not going to I don't think that they're going to be there saying well I want to know that you're real I feel like you would just kind of push that aside yeah you're you know yeah I think it just depends yeah yeah Yeah, because I think there was like an opportunity to voice chat on that IMVU game, but like I wasn't going to do it because I was like pretty shy back then. Yeah.

And I wasn't just going to be like randomly talking to someone in my room. Yeah, I think it was to be like super outgoing. And like he, if it was him, he is like that kind of outgoing, outgoing personality type and he didn't want to do it. Yeah. So that's why I'm like, I have no idea who this person was. Right. No, that that is wild. honestly and like I said I think it's well one you coming on here and sharing the story is like I said listening to it I feel like people could come to their own theories and conclusions which is is so interesting to me and two I really do think it does serve as a good safety measure because and I mean you have to be careful even in real life but it's important to know who you're talking to and even if you're a parent because like obviously I don't know I think as a parent you have to kind of know your kids probably going to do something that you

wouldn't be okay with. Yeah. But even just kind of like maybe teaching them and putting it out there like, I don't want you to do this. But if you're going to, please just like just ask for something more like more information or more detail or come to me or something of the sort where I feel like a lot of parents are quick to be strict and controlling and think that that is going to keep their child away from danger or from something.

But in reality, I think sometimes communication and showing your child that it's a safe space to come to you and talk to you and open up could actually benefit more in in cases of safety and just anything in the world because the world's a scary fucking place. No, I agree that like definitely there needs to be kind of like maybe this could be a good way to parents are listening. Yeah. Like you should. I think like just in general like just don't shelter your kids.

I know. Like just be more open and like because even to this day because of the way that I was raised And because of the way that I thought that I had to hide mostly everything I was doing, I don't have a, like, a great relationship with my parents in that way. Like, definitely not my dad, but, like, I'm closer with my mom. But, like, I still don't tell her everything, like, to this day. And it's, like, not even something that's, like, bad or, like, secretive. I just don't share stuff with her because it's just, like, ingrained in me, I guess.

Right. And that's a thing. And it's like, and I hate to say this because I really do believe that some of the parents that are sheltering their kids, they're doing it because of fear. And everybody wants to keep their child safe. But I do think it really can backfire. And I think when you have a child, and this is honestly why for me, I don't even know if I want a kid. Like part of me does, but then part of me is like, I know how I was growing up and I know that part of having a child is kind of letting them bloom and blossom and like do their own thing and make those mistakes. But making mistakes can lead to some.

scary shit. And it's terrifying and I can't even imagine. So I get both sides. But I feel like as a parent, you kind of, it's better to just be calm and try to tell your kid like be, you can tell me anything, you know, even if it means I might not agree with it. But I think it's important because it could lead to worse things. And if you just try to control them and tell them, don't do this. Because they're never not good. I feel like when you tell somebody not to do something, they're going to want to do it even more, be curious. So it's just a part of it. But no, I think that it does serve as that.

Absolutely. For sure. Yeah. So, and even with the catfishing part, that's very fucking real. Like, you got to know who the fuck you're talking to. Yeah. Do as much as you can to know that that person's a real person. Literally.

Like, I still, like, support online dating. Yeah. It's a real thing. But just make sure that it's actually that person. Right. Actually, yeah. seriously you did so good and thank you so much for coming on and like I said I feel like there's so many different things like parts of your episode that I feel like people will dissect and try to

figure it out but great job seriously and thank you for wanting to come on here and traveling of course thanks for having me yes of course